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58. Facilitating Wealth Conversations Between Parents and Children with Kevin Janiec · Planning & Beyond® - Where financial planning meets human understanding

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I'm working with two different generations of the same family.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that provides for really awesome kind of cohesive planning experiences where you're helping the retirees think about how they share the wealth with that younger generation.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you're also helping this successful couple that's maybe in their mid-40s think about as they're receiving potential gifts or if they're preparing for a potential inheritance, how would that ultimately fit into their plan?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: How do they take the good values that they've have been instilled by their parents, but also kind of make sure that they're living their own lives and making their own choices?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of emotions, as you know, that go into family wealth and life decisions and all of that.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I like being at the center of it all and helping facilitate those conversations.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most, which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's mastering discovery meetings, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, hi.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I should probably introduce myself.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And today I'm excited to be introducing a newer-ish kind of segment that we're going to be focusing on rolling out here intermittently in between some of our other interviews.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that is one where we invite advisors like yourself onto the show to share what's working as it relates to implementing the human side of money.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So think about this as a little bit of inspiration from the Kitz's Advisor Success podcast, where we interview you around, hey, what are you doing inside your practice with your clients that's focused on the human side of money that you find is working really, really well.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so today I am so excited to have Kevin Janik on to be talking about something that is near and dear to my heart as a marriage and family therapist.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that is how advisors can become better facilitators of conversations around wealth, values, and legacy between generations.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kevin, thank you for in many, many ways.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't know this when you signed up when you agreed to this.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of the guinea pig for this.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love it if you could share a little bit about yourself and maybe kind of jump in from there around why are you focused?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you spending so much time maybe in this area around wealth values and legacy between generations?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Ashley.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Professionally, I'm a partner and advisor at a firm Financial Coach in Westchester, Pennsylvania.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Personally, I'm a husband, I'm a dad of three young kids, seven, five, and three.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we actually live next door to our parents.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I bought my grandparents' house and right around the time that we got married.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have plenty of conversations with my family about money and life decisions and different things like that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: But what helped me gravitate towards this topic and what I love about it is at Financial Coach, we serve two distinct populations or two distinct service offerings.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: One is the retiree population.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So those that are close to retirement or recently retired, think of the one to$10 million retiree that is likely fine with the sustaining their income and meeting their lifestyle needs, but really wants to make the most of it and make the most of their retirement through the decisions they make, the lifestyle they live, and the way that they handle investments, taxes, income, everything that goes into that.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: We also serve the mid-career professional through our new wealth project offering, where we're helping busy families like ours that are making a million different decisions and have many things on the future wish list, have a lot of conflicting priorities.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And as income continues to go up, we want to make sure that we're doing the right things with it to maintain that balance between life today and then ultimately, you know, saving for their future.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: What's cool about that, and what I love about it, is in a lot of cases, you are having conversations with these couples that are cross-generations.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I'm working with two different generations of the same family, and that provides for really awesome kind of cohesive planning experiences where you're helping the retirees think about how they share the wealth with that younger generation.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you're also helping this successful couple that's maybe in their mid-40s think about as they're receiving potential gifts, or if they're preparing for a potential inheritance, like how would that ultimately fit into their plan?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do they take the good values that they've have been instilled by their parents, but also kind of make sure that they're living their own lives and making their own choices?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of emotions, as you know, that go into family wealth and life decisions and all of that.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I like being at the center of it all and helping facilitate those conversations.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, having somebody like you at the center there to be able to help with that is incredibly important.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we were, I know, getting into some personal stuff before we hit record here.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was sharing a little bit about just some of Clayton and I's well, let me just say my recent some questions that have come up with our own like family planning and you know, maybe being a bit dramatic in my question, but like having somebody like you to answer those questions that come up, no matter how silly they are, it's such a gift.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious what are some of the questions, you know, maybe that you are seeing some of these families start to maybe ask or become curious about what are you noticing?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't necessarily have all the answers, but again, a lot of my role is asking questions and encouraging conversations to happen.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the questions, the most traditional ones, if I'm working with a retired couple, are we recognize that they're doing all of the things on their bucket list.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're living a lifestyle that they're comfortable with.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're pushing them to spend a little bit more on themselves, but still, even if they push themselves, they're going to continue to accumulate money throughout the course of their retirement.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And their kids at this point, the beneficiaries of their wealth, are inevitably going to inherit a couple million dollars way down the road.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we wonder if there's any opportunities to potentially help support or unlock opportunities for the kids earlier and maybe do it in a more gradual wealth transfer process where they can really help when the help is most needed and it's not coming all at once.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you can, the retirees can be there for the experience, and then they can also really be intentional about how they're they're going about that sharing of the wealth.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: So for retirees, a lot of the questions are how can I give in a way that doesn't enable them?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or their 40-year-old kids might be making more money or a higher salary than they ever made in their lives.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how can I make sure that these values that got me to where we are continue?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: What could they possibly need?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: They seem to have everything they want.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of those questions slash objections come up when we encourage them to do it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: For the kids, there's a lot of times questions as far as like, I don't know how my parents are doing from a retirement savings standpoint.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm gonna have to help out or if they're able to help me out at all.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: They often feel prideful of they don't want any handouts, they don't need any handouts from the parents, but they could use them for some of the things that are on the wish list.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there's just a lot of these unanswered questions because you just don't know what's on the other side, I guess.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you shared with me prior to us jumping on here that you have a really, I think it's a fantastic maybe framework.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you refer to it as a framework, but a framework that you've been using with families.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Would you be willing to share a little bit more about this framework, about how you take families through this conversation?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's really kind of five questions that I like to ask.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we love questions.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and it's a constant experiment.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's flexed for different situations and different client relationships.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: But five questions that I'm currently experimenting with are first deals with values.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I would ask the grandparents in this situation, what values do you most hope that your family carries forward?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: I would ask the 40-year-old mid-career professionals in this situation, what values do you hope or are you proud of or hope to continue forward that you've gotten from your parents?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is a way to really kind of get back to like what is most important to us in the way that we lead our lives and the way that we manage our wealth.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Once we talk a little bit about values, the second question that I like to spend some time on is what are you most proud of in your children's lives today?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So a little bit of celebration.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love that one.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like most parents might tell me separately that they're proud of their kids for different reasons.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: They don't always tell their kids that.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And their kids might wonder, am I doing the right things?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Am I leading a life that my parents would not just approve of, but be proud of?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that has really helped kind of open up these conversations a little bit more when there's a little bit of those words of affirmation, I think, before you dive into any of the money stuff.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I also ask the mid-career professionals in this situation, what are you most proud of in your life today?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: What do you hope your parents are proud of that you've lived today?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if you're asking both sides and having everyone feel kind of excited and confident heading into that meeting, it makes for much better conversation.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: The third question I like to ask is regarding some opportunities and what's on your radar.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll ask the retirees, you know, what might be coming up in the next few years in your kids' lives that could meaningfully impact their financial situation.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: So they are fine, they are making good money, but there's transitions ahead.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: For your kids, there's college not too far away.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's different things in high school or sports that you know might require some extra money that they could kind of see on their radar and be like, ooh, that you know, this is an area where we might be able to help out.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: For the kids, it'd be, you know, what's coming up on your radar in the next couple of years that could meaningfully impact your financial situation?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Where could you maybe use a little bit of help?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: To get a little bit more specific, I then transition to like the$50,000 question.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you can flex this based on kind of the circumstances.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: But to the parents, I'll ask if you were to give your children$50,000, what would you hope it creates regarding the opportunities?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: What would you hope they do with it?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: One fifty thousand doll stretches their mind a little bit.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably fifty thousand dollars more than they've given for anything other than like college or a wedding or when they were raising the kids.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: But to hand them a check and have the trust that it's going to do good, let's play that out.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: What would you hope that good would be for the kids if$50,000 was to unexpectedly land in your bank account and they can think of this as a bonus or a or a gift?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what would they ultimately do with it?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, to bring it to, okay, where do we go from here?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Once we've talked through some of those things, what's one next step?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So once you have this conversation, what would be a next step that you would like to take to feel like you can become closer as a family and more intentional with the way that you're managing wealth?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love all of these.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I like them individually.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I really like most about how you have them organized is the flow of it, starting at like a foundational level, like the values, like let's you know, get clear first on what do we value, right?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Each of our families there, there's you know, some positivity, like celebrating, right?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And like being proud of expanding just that awareness and even like the conversation there, and then really funneling down into more of the nitty-gritty kind of specifics there.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I love the flow of this.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is really fantastic.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm imagining Clayton and I going through this or walking like a client through this.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't help but think that it would be a pretty powerful process to watch families go through.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any, I don't know, any observations that you have kind of in taking families through this process?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would say it's a very fluid process.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's basically the way that it's been done thus far has mostly been separate conversations.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Separate conversations where, and sometimes it's not the same family.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'm working with retirees that have kids that we don't yet work with.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'm working with mid-career professionals where we don't necessarily know the parents, but sure through conversations, it seems like there might be some opportunity for or gifting intent.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it is the same family that makes it easier for sure.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: But they have been separate conversations that I've had, kind of getting them to think about it and then getting the others to think about it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then even sending them like the list of questions and saying, you know, is there a date in the future that you would think you could have a distraction-free conversation?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now kind of being able to air your thoughts out, collect, and be able to have a really productive conversation now that you know we've talked about this a little bit.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way that I've approached it thus far.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And those first conversations were you could be a little bit unfiltered because the other generation wasn't there.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then they felt like they had a tight narrative heading into a conversation with their parents or their kids, and they've gone really well.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't yet facilitated one where both parties have been present and, you know, like a family meeting where I'm there.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious, you know, what's your take or to hear from other advisors, like when they facilitate these separately versus together, what are some of the different pros and cons of of having those conversations?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the key, something that you said earlier, is to be fluid.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so coming from almost two decades of doing couples and family work, there is no couple or family system that is like the other.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are times where it is probably better or best practice to keep those conversations separate, maybe depending upon what the dynamics are or might be, or even just as the advisor, like your own confidence and facilitating a multi-generation like family meeting.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot to take on.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't think sometimes when I was supervising pre-licensed clinicians, like I would tell them, remember, you are one person trying to manage, potentially, if you're putting two generations together, you know, four different people, right?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of dynamics.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of relationships, right?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: That you are just trying to manage.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be really on your game and really regulated.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is, you know, my partner Meglerts, like she calls it a contact sport and facilitating that type of meeting, it is like a context sport.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to be engaged.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think to bring generations together is fantastic, but you really need to know what you're doing and to have a game plan, not just in the form of like an agenda, but like if things go sideways, how are you going to stop the conversation?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna take a pause?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna wrap things up in such a way to where the family or families they leave still wanting to be your client?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I like this idea of fluidity and it does, it needs to be somewhat fluid.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think you bring multi-generations together.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are some true benefits to doing that.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: One is like when I was listening to you talk about the question around like, what are you being proud of?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are you most proud of in your children's lives today?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just think about what a gift that would be as the adult child to hear your parents say something.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: My parents are really affirmative, and Clayton and I are probably guilty of this too.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we'll say more generic statements of like, hey, I'm really proud of you.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, like I'm proud of you.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it kind of ends there, which I feel, you know, kind of terrible now that I'm sitting here thinking about this.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: But to have your or hear your parents say something very specific that they are proud of you for just takes that to the next level.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there's a lot of value in being able to hear that directly from directly from your parent and for the parent to say that to their adult child.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: What I found was interesting, and maybe this is me being what I thought would be cool, is for the adult children to share what they are most proud of about their parents.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a few things that come to mind.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So my dad, my father, as I was sharing with you, he grew up in Philly and outside of Philly and did not grow up in the best of conditions.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just kind of say that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that he has, you know, worked his way into a professional career as a CPA, the fact that he has not or has not been in jail or a drug addict or was abusive to like my brother and I, like, you know, some of the things that he grew up with, I am really proud of my dad.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: It makes me a little emotional.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm very proud of my dad for overcoming those obstacles and persevering and showing true resilience.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that this question, obviously, it's makes me emotional, but I just think about how amazing that would be as an adult child to say, like, hey, here's this, maybe it's a value, but here's this thing that I'm actually really proud of you for.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've never shared this.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just how much of a bonding experience like that would be for the entire family system.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there's some real magic, I think, Kevin, in bringing both the generations together, but proceed with caution, obviously, and and knowing yourself.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's throw it in there.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Let's make sure that it's in there.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think you made a very strong case for it.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, it'll come up a lot in conversations with the kids.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about what they really love about what their parents have done, what they are proud of.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's now two adults coming together that have had this lifelong relationship and a lot of gratitude, a lot of struggle, probably at over time.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: But the sharing of what they're proud of, that is a great way for them to really get this conversation off to a good start.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is likely a lot of kind of like judgment or you know, that might come into this.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's what makes it so awkward.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Assumptions, right?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Can get made.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think in that vein, the other piece here that I think is and would be really powerful, I find, and I'm curious if this is the case for you, but those G1 that, you know, generation one sometimes will make assumptions about what their adult children would do with$50,000.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Which is why I love this question here that you have of if you gave your children$50,000, what would you hope it creates?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: But also for the adult children, if you were to receive this, what would you do?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think that from my experience, there are just some assumptions that can be made of, oh, they would spend it on this.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they would do this and this with it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, maybe those assumptions are accurate, maybe they're true, but what a way to just be able to, I think about maybe more for like our generation as the adult kids to be able to say, actually, like I've kind of thought about if I were to ever receive, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like the lottery question.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I were to ever receive like an amount, I would probably pay off our mortgage.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would pay down all of our debt.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I would use part of it to take a nice vacation or fund like the kids this, you know, that generation one might be surprised.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: At what their kids would say.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that my hope would be is that if there is some anxiety or uncertainty around maybe how responsible or how your kids would use it, that it could settle some of that down and maybe even perhaps make the generation one feel more confident and giving in the future.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear just your thoughts on that from what you've seen.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Completely agree.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where it really the awareness is so key.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: One story is there's a couple that in their 40s, they live in Brooklyn, they have three kids and just had a fourth, and their parents we've been encouraging to gift.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: They were thinking once they buy a house in the suburbs, we'll help with the down payment.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: But a couple of years were going by and they weren't buying a house in the suburbs.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, is there anything else that we can gift towards in the meantime?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we'd like to have them use it to buy a house.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, if you were to give your daughter hypothetically, like$50,000, what do you think that would do for her?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And she wasn't to buy a house with it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: What might that help her do?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And after thinking and then ultimately having a conversation with their daughter with that$50,000 gift in mind, it was like, I am completely burnt out in my job.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I have these four young kids that I'm taking care of, and we're we are making decent money and we are living in an expensive area, but like I don't think we're gonna be moving to the suburbs that soon.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: What I really need is like a chance to maybe scale back at work and find something that's more suitable for a better work-life balance.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I can be present with both and just more mentally healthy.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the freedom of having$50,000 as a bit of a safety net as she made that transition, unlocked it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And for her parents, it was like, oh wow, that was simple.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Glad we had the conversation, and now my daughter's significantly happier in her kind of new work-life balance setup.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like, we need to be having more of these conversations on just, you know, even if your kids are making good money, there still might be things that without being overly lavish or or losing any level of work ethic that could really make a better experience for them and ultimately their family.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's so magic or magical must be my word for today, because that's just like what I keep coming back to.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's because I'm at the beach right now, Kevin.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm feeling a little like kind of woo-woo out there.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like that's such a great story and example of the magic, the importance of just having the conversation and where advisors like you can really do like the most good for their clients.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sure, like the technical advice is fantastic, but this is literally like generation like changing type of type of stuff here that we're talking about.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this woman like having this conversation with her adult daughter who's burnt out, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: The impact that that was having on not only her, but her marriage, her kids.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't want to make assumptions here, but you could easily see where like the impact around that it could improve not only their daughter's mental health, her mental physical health, also her ability and how she is as a mom, like as a partner, it really starts to trickle out or ripple, right?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And have these ripple effects that I think is really, really powerful that sometimes parents in this case, but even advisors may not be attuned to or really realize.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I would think for you, when you were launching Beyond the Plan and you're very successful before Beyond the Plan, but there's still a scary element of making that leap to do something that you really ultimately want to do.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of these kids, it wouldn't enable them, it would fuel them to be able to do something that was really fulfilling and work even harder at it.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think sometimes it's not because we get money that means we're going to lose our values.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it can amplify the values.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: As long as we have these conversations and recognize the intentions and feel really good that we're on the same page and aligned with ultimately what life they're going to lead going forward.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Very well said.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we've talked about some of the structure, a little bit of scaffolding around this conversation around wealth values, legacy.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: But let's maybe dive into some other pieces here that are also just as practical and helpful.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: When should advisors maybe start to introduce these conversations with their clients?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think anytime you can have conversations with the next generation, what are you proud of?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's on their minds, what's on their radar, tomorrow?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think you can start introducing those things.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're really important.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Where we've introduced more of the like the wealth transfer type conversations and these bigger conversations has been when the couple has kind of met all of their needs and is on the right track with all of the things on their wish list.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're putting their oxygen mask on first, and there is extra.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they're thinking about if we don't do anything, we're just going to continue to accumulate more for what?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where it becomes a little bit more of hey, what's the level of family?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: What you know, you start thinking about that next level.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would agree.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think get the basics done right first, get all the planning stuff, plan delivery, even some of their initial maybe like goals.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then unless there's an event that really prompts maybe this conversation to be had sooner.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, get the basics done first, and then maybe focus on, I say, the fun stuff.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is more the fun stuff for me.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Then we can focus on the fun stuff.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm curious, and again, I would love to hear from other advisors on this topic in the future.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, a lot of times it's been a gradual over time.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: These questions are sprinkled in.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: We get to hear more about the kids, we get a better context, we build the trust, and we're starting to learn a little bit more.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe there is like a conversational event that happens in the future.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I go back and forth, you put together this tool or this resource, and you're thinking, okay, should we have a separate meeting on it?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or should this just be something that we kind of work into all of our conversations going forward?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious to hear what you've heard or found to be most effective.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that these questions separately, like there's nothing wrong sprinkling them in and asking them.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these might even be great questions as a part of the discovery or plan building process.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things, though, that that I have seen, and not that this is wrong, I'm just I'm curious and I'm questioning some of it, is that when we ask questions like, can you identify your values or what are maybe your top three values?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then we switch to more of the technical stuff, right?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's in your TSP account, what's in your schwab?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then we switch back to, you know, okay, if you were gifted$50,000, what would you do?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then we go back to like, hey, do you have a will set up?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's not that dramatic.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: But from like a brain standpoint, we're not ever getting into like a flow state.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're just kind of switching back and forth between questions maybe that are more technically geared that are important.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're important, that information that you need.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: But then you're asking me to like switch gears and like think about what do I value or what would I do with$50,000, or what am I proud of for myself?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like that kind of switching, almost like it can be really confusing and it can feel like a ping pong match in our brains.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes one, you may not get the best answers with those more kind of abstract questions there.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just may not get like the best answers or the most accurate, or you might get the uh, I don't know, like they're put on the spot.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I would caution if you're wanting to just kind of throw these questions in as like a one-off into a meeting, be really careful like where you're placing it within the agenda.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then the questions are transitions kind of like around that.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so having almost like a, I mean you could say an agenda, but like kind of like a map and just being mindful and aware of like, how is that gonna feel to answer that?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you walk, you know, your partner through it or another advisor like in your firm or somebody else and just get a sense for how it feels because you don't want us for clients to feel a little like discombobulated or like, why is he asking that?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then he switched over here or she switched over here and is asking me this.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not making sense.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So these one-off questions, I think they're great.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be pre-planned and we need to be careful and mindful around the transitions into them and out of them.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to that, one of the things that frustrates me is asking questions and then never coming back to the answers or bringing them back up later.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're gonna be asking questions like values or the what would you do with$50,000?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like how would you kind of build some goals around that?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And but then you never come back to it, it can leave clients feeling really abandoned.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of made myself vulnerable, right?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: And more or less, and I gave them this answer.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: But then how about that Roth conversion?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think just being just being mindful around it and not just asking questions just because they sound good or you think that they make you sound good for clients.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, where I could improve and where it's come up in the past has been, you know, you'll be having a conversation, you'll be showing them that if they don't spend more, this thing's just gonna continue to accumulate and their kids are inevitably gonna inherit way more money than they intended.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, we could be doing more from a travel standpoint, or you could be gifting more to charities or to people that you care about.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: They'll throw in the objection of, uh, they're fine, they're doing great on their own.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: We had to earn it ourselves.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get to that later on.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then it'll be I'll throw in kind of one of those follow-up questions.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what are some of the things on their radar in the next couple of years that you might be able to help out with?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: They'll talk a little bit about it, uh, this or that.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what would you say you're like most proud of for your kids?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: They might share a little bit.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a nice conversation, and then, hey, you should think about gifting a little bit more.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Then I'll throw in a recap email, some questions.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, here are some things to think about, but there may not have been intention there to be like, this is actually a really important separate conversation that I'd love to have.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like there's definitely gifting capacity.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little bit of gifting intent, but I think to really get intentional about it, would you be open to setting up like a separate session where we just dive into that and think about how you would even talk to your kids about that?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then set up a follow-up meeting and then we can go through a little bit more of the exercise.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of like lobbing the grenade in there and hoping over time and having success of getting them to have these conversations and think about these things.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to start getting better about like making this a little bit more of an intentional part of the process, even if it's kick-started organically.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that language, that scripting there was brilliant, great, fantastic.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it does sound like to your point, you know, this is something that it has evolved like over time, but also like your confidence with it has also increased and evolved.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that really matters as well, which I love.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like on your first day as an advisor, you probably couldn't have delivered that, right?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you could have.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's a really bad thing.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe last week.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, right.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: It sounded good on you're on a podcast, you got the good lighting, you know, you just start firing away, right?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Kevin, I have genuinely appreciated all of your insights here, all of the juicy little nuggets and takeaways that you've shared.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: If people want more Kevin in their life, where can they find you?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Where can they hang out with you?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: LinkedIn, Kevin Janik, J-A-N-I-E-C is probably the best way to follow some of the content that I'm putting out.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: The website for our retirement offer is financialcoachgroup.com.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the website for our mid-career professional offer is the newwealthproject.com.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have any interest in exploring those websites, go there.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: But LinkedIn, happy to have a conversation there.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: And also feel free to reach out.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I love talking about this stuff.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: We'll make sure that we include all of those in the show notes for those of you that are listening.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Kevin, thank you so much for coming on and being a fantastic guinea pig first in our advisor series here.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for coming on and sharing.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you to all of you for allowing Kevin and I into your ears and into your mind today.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a part of your week that you don't have to give us, but you're choosing to.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And for that, I think I speak for Kevin and I and saying we are incredibly grateful.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love to keep the connection going.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can find me on LinkedIn as well at Ashley Kwame, where I share weekly insights on the human side of planning.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And if you'd like a little bit more beyond the plan, you can head over to our website and sign up for our monthly newsletter where we share strategies, insights, all centered around how to integrate the human side of planning into your firm and with your clients.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Most importantly, though, make sure that you follow the show wherever you get your podcast so that you never miss a future conversation like this one.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you who are advisors listening, and maybe you're doing something really cool in the human side of planning space.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've got a tool that you're using, a conversation framework or just an approach that you'd like to share with the rest of the world.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear from you.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can reach out to me at hello at beyondthefp.com.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let me know what you're up to.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me you want to be a guest, and we will get you going from there.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: As always, my friends, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth.
• 36:51
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• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyondthefp.com.
• 37:10
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• 37:17
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• 37:21
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• 37:23
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• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.