Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.374: The Board Is Making It A Lot Easier For Brands To Succeed Ft. April Uchitel

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E.374: The Board Is Making It A Lot Easier For Brands To Succeed Ft. April Uchitel · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so Ryan, for the episode, I just wanted to share a very special message, uh, which is um really near and dear to April's heart as well.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is to go register right now to vote.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do not sleep on it.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Don't wait.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Don't say that you'll do it later or you'll do it tomorrow.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, go vote.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, go register uh right now.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: It takes five minutes, not even, and it's very important.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's literally a way to change not only history and the future, but even the now.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I really encourage everybody to stand behind April's passion and mission to get this word out there.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to begin this episode by really reminding everybody that's listening in go vote.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right, guys, stay tuned, and I hope you love this episode.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to anarchy.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is Victor, and today's guest is very special.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is a um a special that I am now you know starting a new series, as a lot of you know.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we actually had a few guests already for The Wisdom of Women, and it's published every Wednesday, and it's really about the the executives in our space, you know, um the women executives that are really um change makers.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so today I have one of them with me.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um welcome to the show, April.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have April Uchtel with me.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: She is the founder of the board, and I know a lot of you must have heard of the board if you're on LinkedIn or just, you know, in the beauty business.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, welcome, April.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to be hosting you.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super psyched to be here.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, likewise, I'm super psyched to have you here.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't wait to dive in because I know that you have such an amazing um career history.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: You've done so much, and I uh would love to start there.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you could get us started with, you know, how everything really started off for you.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know you were you were with Violet Gray for a long time, and then you basically um took the brand to new heights.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: So anywhere you want to start.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I'll go back even further.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually in fashion for about 25 years, um, both in Los Angeles and then New York.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Nine of those years were at Diane von Furstenberg, um, kind of in the pre-early contemporary days where we were a big anchor and all the department stores.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And quite frankly, you know, I kind of saw all the challenges in that industry and I realized I had to get out and get into digital.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so did one of those, you know, kind of my my first pivot was around 2013.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I had taken a bit of a sabbatical to try and figure out what I wanted to do and was consulting.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I started mentoring in the CFDA incubator program to stay attached to the emerging brands and really um was connected to a startup as a consulting client called Spring, and that was a tech company.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: So from Fashion to Tech, and we were building a marketplace really from scratch, um, early app days.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was with this assumption that given the department store challenges, we could build a platform removing the middleman and letting brands go direct to consumer.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I was the chief brand officer, and that meant I helped kind of iterate on the product itself in terms of what brands would want.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I ran all over Manhattan with an app on my phone that we were hoping we could build, and I onboarded over the course of almost three and a half years about 1,600 brands.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of those really were beauty as well as fashion.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of how I got introduced to beauty.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: But what it really did is it afforded me um kind of a bird's eye view into so many different companies of all stages.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: So from the very small brands, like I said, that were in the incubator program, um, brands like Barler Valley's, who are obviously you know much bigger now, Manzor Gravielle, who were two girls working out of a closet at the time, you know, all the way through all of the brands at SD Lauder, you know, on to Gucci.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was an amazing experience and just really showed me how everything was so siloed and that brands weren't really talking to each other or supporting each other, and and there was really no resource for that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I funny enough wrote a business plan to build Angie's List Meets Tinder and ultimately, you know, how do I connect people to each other um to solve problems?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when I got to Los Angeles, um, I ended up exiting uh spring into about 2017, moved to LA.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: My husband, Craig Franklin, was just done with Manhattan.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so we landed in Los Angeles, and um, I kind of accidentally became the CEO of Violet Gray.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: I had known Cassandra and I was first talking to her about a project she was doing at the Amazon as I had just built a marketplace for spring.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, she basically said she'd rather hand me the keys.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of inherited Violet Gray at a at a stage where it was, you know, in a bit of a um a mess.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Cassandra's husband had passed away, and so she had to obviously take time out for that, and there had been a lot of turnover.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I spent about three years really kind of restructuring team and um, you know, a lot of in internal operations, to be honest, from warehouse to offices, but also culture.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we ended up, you know, kind of 3Xing the business in that time frame, and then the pandemic hit.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then it was kind of time for yet another pivot.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: So fashion to tech to beauty.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: And now I have the board, which I've co-founded about a year and a half ago with Anita Gatto, who came from experiential retail, really just in this space, you know, as we've all seen through the pandemic of kind of the big reckoning and what do we want to do, how do we want to do it, and this real sense of community that we were all really seeking, and you know, the choices we want to make now around quality and quantity, you know, versus quantity and then quality.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're really a marketplace of people, for lack of a better analogy, which kind of is a reference to the the world I tried to build at spring.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, equally the code at Violet Gray was our key value proper.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: We tested and vetted.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: So everything the customer was being presented had been approved by the Violet Gray team.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, in that same respect, the members of the board are all coming through a network that's vetted, um, really about trusted talent and just awesome humans.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And now we work with companies on a project basis.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: We can build really incredible mini dream teams from our roster, we can match up directly, but more importantly, the community can support each other um in terms of sharing resources, sharing um real-time learnings and obviously opportunities.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you mentioned the networking component because I feel like that is, you know, such a it's like irreplaceable.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you have a good network, if you have met and worked with people who are just really great at what they do, then that is the biggest, you know, takeaway any entrepreneur or executive can have.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I love that you you've kind of built upon that, you know, year after year.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I wanted to ask you though, you know, in terms of like what you do with the board, you know, so how do you how do you figure out like who's a good fit for what, you know, what client?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like how does that whole process work for you guys?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's funny enough, it's kind of one of my superpowers.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the things that we really look to for our members is, you know, when you generally, when you get to the top of an org chart, you're you're very much a generalist.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can do a lot of things, it ends up really being kind of an HR job, to be honest, and you're managing a lot of people, and you kind of get further and further away from the stuff you really love to do.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: So when people move into consulting, they generally kind of go back to, you know, the areas they're most passionate about.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so we really lean into those uh at the board in terms of the way we think about our roster's area of expertise, and it's really self-directed on their part.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: But it allows us when someone approaches us and says, I need help with X, you know, we can really get to those people that that is really what they love to do.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because to me, it's it's it's really about being nimble and executing and helping companies at all stages, whether they're young, um, young founders, you know, just newly funded startups, all the way through to big corporate companies like um Farfetch, who we worked with, Westfield, Postmates, where, you know, brands are coming to us and there's a bit of vulnerability when you're asking for help.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so we really want to meet everybody where they are, unlike traditional corporate structure and culture, where you know, people tend to armor up and and you know, kind of let their titles lead.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we've all just kind of tired of that very patriarchal model.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what we're trying to do is really lean in with more vulnerability and real human connection, which quite frankly, the pandemic kind of you know exposed once we've all been working remote in our dining rooms and pajamas.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so most people who did leave corporate life just really don't want to go back into a traditional, um, sometimes somewhat toxic culture.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so when they're working on projects, they really do bring their A game because they're really excited to build and to get back into those places where they can have real impact.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, like I said, nimble in execution, because we all have run businesses and we understand budgets and roadmaps and timelines.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so we know it's about moving fast and it's not about, you know, more traditional agency of, you know, long-term retainers and, you know, a kind of same team working on your projects.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so the way we go to curate, both on, you know, who's a member of the board, is is a lot of our network effect, you know, have we worked with them?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Has someone on the board worked with them?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, do we have a sense of of where they're headed?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and quite frankly, are they seeing the world in a bigger way?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And all of us now have passion projects because we realize that things are are pretty dark and scary out there, and we have to think beyond just what kind of business we're doing for an income, but really what kind of legacy and impact are we having on the planet or society at large.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's so important.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you hit that later in life.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the struggle is really personal for a while, and then you realize your mortality, and then you realize that you know there's there's bigger things, and so we really champion and empower members, passion projects, and we support each other on those as well.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so it just goes to an overall well-rounded human.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: So when we are attaching them to a project, there's a real connection that can be made.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, when founders come and they're like, I need help, um, we know you know, we're there's a lot of trust that has to be put into that connection and that matchup.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we know I our case studies are amazing.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Our testimonials of of just the experience of working with us has been really so rewarding because we're all kind of coming from this real place of wanting to to, like I said, bring our A game, do our best to help move businesses, you know, through through areas or challenges or pivots, or even you know, just go to market strategies that can be accelerated just because they're reaching a certain level of expertise that quite frankly is kind of hard to find.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: So we really set out to kind of be this destination, um, which really helps the the members, you know, from a deal flow perspective, but also building that community where they can workshop things, you know, internally, they can ask for help member to member.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, once you leave a corporate structure, you lose a lot of your resources.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: So when you go independent, the scary side is, you know, hustle for the next project and kind of feeling like you're isolated or on your own.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we're trying to solve for both sides of the equation.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, you know, because I recently spoke to someone in the venture capital world and um they're amazing, you know, they're an amazing person, but they we talked about a lot of different things.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the topics that came up was this um idea that brands usually that apply for funding, you know, which we all know is extremely important for a brand's growth, um, you know, they have to, they really have to meet a mark.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And to get there, I, you know, one of my biggest questions for the for the guest was, well, how do you get to a point where a brand has about a few million dollars in sales to show?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're getting your help, you know what I mean?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: As compared to like smaller brands who are doing everything on their own, they don't know who to hire, who to go to to expand their growth, you know, to give them good constructive feedback and then also lend a helping hand, you know, where is that component coming in?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're a startup and you want to hit that point, which you know you can, if you've got a great product, you know you're gonna make millions if you just, you know, had the right team or had the right person or the the right lead, you know, and it's like with that that conversation came up, and from the venture capital side, you know, um, the guest was like, Well, I I wish I had a better answer, but unfortunately, the way that firms work now is that we have to have, you know, this certain amount of sales already there for, you know, you to show us before we can even invest.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the problem I'm seeing, you know, from just having interviewed so many brands is that I keep seeing amazing products, amazing people, um, you know, that are creating things that are uh really filling a white space.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then on the other hand, I'll go on social media and I'll see this conversation going on about how women of color are not getting funding, or you know, people of color in general, or they're underrepresented in the venture world or in the funding or investing world.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it just makes me wonder is like where is the real problem?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the real problem is what you guys are solving here, which is getting the right team on board.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think you know, so many times people think they need a CEO, or I think I need a C you know, and they just really don't at those early stages.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And equally they they think if they throw a bunch of money at one person, they're gonna come and wear 50 hats and be the silver bullet, and that doesn't work either.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, the challenge, quite frankly, is the whole chicken and egg, you know.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And in at Spring, we were um four of us in a we work, and we eventually, you know, raised like 157 million dollars, and we were this huge crew, and you know, but we moved too fast and we raised too much.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And the founders, you know, in my opinion, really lost sight of the integrity of what we're building and started chasing, you know, the revenue because you get so much pressure from the investors.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like a damned if you do, damned if you don't, you know, and I think it's really in all the investors I talk to, you know, most of them say if you can if you can avoid raising, do because you lose so much of your equity and your um ownership.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: But also, you know, you have someone else kind of helping you directing your business vision, um, which from an investment perspective may but may not be what's best for the business and the founder.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: So most of these younger brands, you know, they initially start to seek out, you know, friends and family, angel, high net worth individuals, family offices that don't have the same kind of you know expectations in terms of you know ROI as some of the venture back companies.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yet at some stages you just really need capital to accelerate and you know, you're getting orders and you can't fill the inventory.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's it's really it's just a constant challenge.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we have a lot of companies coming to us saying, you know, I really would like to work with the board, but can you first help us raise$3 million?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that's not our core competency at all, although we do have SPV people that run SPVs on the board, people that are partners and investment um agencies that we can share decks and opportunities with, but it's not something that you know we're working on as a core pipeline.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: But we see clearly, you know, that there's the money is very much dried up.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're talking to so many people that you know valuations have changed dramatically.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: They're no longer throwing money at companies like they used to, and they really do need to see a path to profitability, whereas before they just needed to see, you know, multiples of revenue and you know, whatever that marketing, you know, return is.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And now that that pay marketing funnel has changed dramatically with the um iOS updates, brands are really trying to figure out how do they accelerate growth to the extent that the investors want to see.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel, I feel, I really feel for founders.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I'm basically a founder of the board and we're not looking to raise money, and we really want to build this as a community.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm completely in that mindset of, you know, how do you do it organically, but yet with um, you know, a sense of velocity.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And who do you go to to support where you can?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And in some cases, you know, there are members of the board that will work with smaller companies for a much smaller retainer or percentage um retainer plus equity because you know, they they they have time and they really love to help build.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we are able to make some of those connections, which is great.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: We have some members who are doing pro bono work just because they really believe in the brand and the founder and where they think it's going to go down the road.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we can be that resource.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but primarily, you know, you have to figure out how to make those investments.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's hard to ask a lot of people to work for a lot less than they're worth.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what I love about our model in the dream team scenario where we can attach a handful of people, you know, you could get three to four people for basically the price of one because everyone kind of takes their piece and they're experts at it so they can move fast and invest, you know, kind of fewer hours for bigger reward.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's a way to kind of make the numbers work.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I like that.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I like what you said about, you know, it's really about raising a community and and this uh networking kind of, you know, the idea of it being more about the community aspect and it kind of like, you know, it takes a village, right?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: To do anything.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: It it does.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's something that I mean, you really don't see a lot of.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think in any industry, but especially now when there's brands popping up every day, um, people are, you know, they think that they've got the next big thing.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: They think that this is gonna be the the game changer, you know, in this industry or whatever industry.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and then, you know, even if they have the money, what I notice is that I don't think I can pinpoint anymore what organic growth means, to be honest.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I really struggle with that word because there's people, um, you know, even PR companies will reach out to me and they're like, Well, we're looking for organic features.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, What the hell is organic nowadays?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what do you need?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: A freaking like thing of lettuce?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what I don't get it, you know, I don't get it because there's no such thing anymore.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I know everything has a buy button or a um about what happened on Instagram, and obviously, you know, where people are throwing their marketing dollars, and the minute that formula stops, sometimes it takes a bit to catch up, and you realize that you've thrown a bunch of money away for the last few months, it's you know, you're just not going to get back.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think you know, everyone speaks to the diversification, right?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you're seeing so many more brands go into physical right now because digital has has been much, much harder to see those same returns.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so we're seeing a lot of people doing experiential, doing pop-ups, opening more stores, you know, doing kind of partnerships, really.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: How do they do more collaborations?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, influencers still strong, but shifting.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so what you know, what I love about our model too is that we have experts in all these areas, right?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: So we have paid marketing experts, we have TikTok experts, we have Gen Z experts, we have um people that this is this is really what they go in with their superpower into their own client work or work that comes through the board.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're able to share their learnings across our community so that members of the community kind of have that cheat sheet of, you know, this is this is what's trending over here, these are the top ingredients in beauty product development, you know, these are um how parents are thinking about experiential, because we're able to leverage those resources as opposed to wait until there's an article, you know, in Business of Fashion or WWD, it's real-time learnings.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're we're working on ways to really capture that kind of inside baseball, you know, insider knowledge because you're seeing it across multiple clients and projects.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, they're really not trends as much as they are like the reality of what's what's happening, what's working, what's not working.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it just changes so fast.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, your strategy just has to be fluid.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, where you used to be able to really, you know, build a five-year plan and put in specific, you know, percentage and returns and conversion metrics and you know, have a pretty clear sense of direction.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where companies are realizing, you know, that there's multiple levers you have to pull along the way.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, where we're seeing really people leaning much more into loyalty and retention than they are on customer acquisition because it's just gotten so expensive.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so now they're thinking, okay, I have these people here.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: How do I engage with them more?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get them to shop one more time?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, you know, those trends that we see, then we think about like how do we support, you know, our clients and and all the members, and what are the tools out there?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: What is working?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what are the platforms that are you know open?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we spend a lot of time talking to, you know, retailers and tech founders and um brands and just also what they're seeing and feeling as as well as the members.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: It just happens organically through the community model, um, which is really I think where it's going.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that more and more people are open, you know, to sharing, collaborating.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're either kind of a biz dev minded person who you're just like a connector and you know, I got you and I know exactly who you should talk to, or you kind of hold all your cards close because you feel like you work so hard for those relationships.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think those people that generally I would say took more than they gave are realizing that that just doesn't work.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: It can't work.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it can't you you get what you you know, you get what you give.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's I really believe in that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, one interesting thing that popped up when you were um explaining that, um, April, was that I think that social media, and this is just my personal theory, I think social media was an attempt.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: for consumers and also brands to create a community, right?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it was like a really big attempt to try and create those that like the type of communities we're talking about where it's you know, quote, organic growth or a you know, a uh a base of customers, base consumers that will go buy your product over and over and over again.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what it really turned into is just another form of clickbait over time.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, once again, going back to your point, like you know, it it's about forming real meaningful relationships.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm you just can't do that from a seven second video, you know, or a and you never know like if those followers were bought and you really look at engagement metrics on some of these big accounts and you're like oh my own I you know you you realize that you're not it's not really above board in many ways that you would think no that's that's the problem.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's the problem that there's too much there's too much fluff.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: There's too much gray space now in this entire business you know I guess ad you know it doesn't really I don't know it's it's funny because I look I have a 16 seem to be 17 year old daughter and you know she is obviously discovering as my son is everything on TikTok and whether it's beauty um brands fashion brands you know recipes you know you name it she's you know the they're getting so much of their information and quite frankly their news which is terrifying but it's it is it's just wild to watch you know how the info where where the influence is coming from and how it's shifting and and what those algorithms are pushing to the front and it's so scary and dangerous and it's really hard not to get caught up in it because you know you're trying to you're trying to drive brand awareness you're trying to connect and you know that's those are the mechanisms out there.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think you know I work with a lot of brands who you know they're like oh now I need a TikTok strategy.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh do now you know it's just exhausting at the same time you have people that are you know built huge profitable companies you know in in that space and um there's some of those fast fashion brands that it really were born and are doing you know hundreds of millions of dollars just because of TikTok and UGC and um now they're trying to figure out like we don't even really know what our brand narrative is like who are we you know and they're going backwards into creating a brand because you know the consumer drove so much of their look and feel and um it's so it's so interesting to watch from the outside and then you have big heritage brands that are trying to figure out do we participate in web three you know and it's it's just like there's there's so many there's so much noise and I think cutting through the noise has become exhausting and um really being true to your product and your vision but to your point there's so many brands out there that have incredible product really smart founders and you know the cards are just so stacked in terms of if they can't get funded and you know their dream dies, it's it's just heartbreaking.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're you know we're trying to do what we can and at the same time you know we do work with bigger companies and sometimes we're able to broker partnerships where we can bring in some emerging players we did a we produced the pop-up for um Hello Sunshine Reese with the Spoons book club last Christmas and we brought in about 15 different brands to that pop-up and we were able to bring in some emerging beauty brands that really got a lot of visibility.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was all consignment you know but it's a it's a way to get in front of a customer because we know there's guaranteed traffic and we know there's going to be um you know a lot of a lot of footfall but also a lot of amazing contextual commerce right like who your adjacencies are right you're kind of put into this situation where you're on the same you know same level and so we we look for opportunities again based on the product the products and the founders and the brands we love that we're discovering and so hoping you know the network effect of that um is just exponential and you know really like I said we're building kind of this this destination we we joke that we're the black amex of LinkedIn you know like it's a little like if you know you know and you know um which is which is I think there's a lot more credibility than you know going out and you know doing advertising on ourselves all day long.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And quite frankly the quality of the people and the quality of the companies and the founders is is really where the magic is.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've been really lucky that we've had just incredible you know inbounds and and people looking for for support because there's there's no short shortage of problems, you know, and there's there's really this incredible pool of talent that can that can help.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're really building the that connective thread um to kind of like I said solve for both sides where a lot of companies whether they're like we said small teams that are highly under resourced to bigger companies who are dealing with retention issues and um you know really aggressive roadmaps and we kind of can play this SWAT team role to kind of pulse in one person, two with Farfetch there was 10 of us and we're really seasoned so we don't need crazy onboarding we can jump in and we also understand culture can be impacted by when the you know quote unquote experts come in and and we've lived through those experiences.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we're we're super hypersensitive to just the collaboration impact and really wanting it to be you know alongside and not you know going off to a corner and developing a deck and handing it back and saying good luck.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know anybody no that's not helpful at all.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it I mean I think it's very it's these are the services that I think are very very much needed these days.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean even you know I know nothing about you know putting together a team to really make your brand succeed you know that's but I get emails from people that have like you know listen to me interview a brand or whatever and they'll be like well where do I start I don't know who to connect with I need guidance I need you know a mentor blah blah blah and I'm like honestly there's very few resources out there right now you know you could find somebody on LinkedIn you could just kind of blind sight this and just you know uh go on there and just hope you know that you can message somebody but there's really nowhere nowhere you know other than you know what you're describing with what you guys are doing at the board where I've seen you know people get that real time guidance.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know a lot of times going back to the social media thing, you know, brands think that okay finally my social media is growing.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this must reflect in my sales this must reflect in you know how much interest retailers have in me or whatever.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like when that fails it's I think it it makes people realize that you know social media is not it's not churning out the results that people need in terms of actual brand growth.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a you know what I mean it's just another metric that's used to kind of pull the you know the wool over someone else's eyes, you know, whether that's an investor or not.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we have to really come out of that culture.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have to come back to the culture of, you know, um I I I'll give you an example someone used this example the other day where Revlon, you know, with Revlon, we were all brainwashed to love Revlon, right?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like brainwashed in the sense of we saw it on uh you know the TV all the time because that's what we were doing.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those of us who grew up watching TV every day after school, you always saw Revlon commercial you always saw you know uh one of the big supermodels and it was kind of like ingrained in your head.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then you would go to the store and you would see the products and it was this whole process as a consumer you know of getting connected to a brand and that connection was it it kind of spanned so many different um layers and so many different categories that that's really I think what made you gravitate towards Revlon, you know, when you wanted a new product or you know anything any brand like that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I keep talking about Revlon but um any brand like that like L'Oreal or something.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't they have millions and millions of dollars to spend on marketing you know there was less less competition in the space right when you think about when Glossier hit you know and there's all these D2C brands came up and all those kind of you know legacy brands the Estee Lauder portfolios the L'Oreal's um the Maybellines you know they're they are all were still struggling to you know struggling for relevance and maintenance and reinvention and then diversity like how do they participate in those conversations and you know the customer the customer has a lot of power obviously with their dollar and yet I still think you know advertising is advertising right and yeah and I watch what my daughter gets drawn into and it's really you know looking at those ideals of the girls and how they look and you know it goes back to like for me like when Kate Moss was on the cover of everything and everyone's like you know there was that waif moment and heroin chic and then you had you know a million other things you're like ah now I have to be that um and I do think there's so much more empowerment with social because you see people can really decide like okay I I'm gonna find my people or you know my daughter will show me sites and and women that are girls that are just owning you know body positivity or whether you know it's it's anything in the activism space and there's there's also a lot of great opportunities to really inspire and empower and I think brands that are more and more leaning into okay we don't only to pay Kim Kardashian you know and a and a you know one of the Jenner family to post um but who are these people that are really inspiring you know um Estee Lauder just started working with Amanda um I'm totally blanking on her last name the you know the put laureate and I think it's amazing you know it's it's like really showing someone who's living a big impact on the world in terms of their their own self and how they're driven and their own motivations and you know bringing that into the beauty conversation.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you're seeing more and more of that which is great.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you know the pendulum just keeps swinging and so what we're seeing in the beauty industry and and obviously there's so much in terms of diversity and LGBT that has always been there and fighting for those rights now that's happening where you know things that are kind of being destroyed slowly in our in our political system you know brands really need to also have a voice there.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like the consumers really respect brands that do and if they're not on the same page, you know they'll go shop something else.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like look gone are the days that a brand can just kind of sit silently in the middle of all these you know really huge um political conversations whether it is about you know sustainability um you know how are they thinking about packaging how are they thinking about replenishment you know what are they doing that's gonna you know leave the world better than they found it and I'm still shocked when a brand launches with none of that those considerations I feel like they're either so tone deaf um you know or it's just a super opportunistic play.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you'll see it sometimes you know in the celebrity world where everyone's got a brand now um and then you talk to these amazing dermatologists or naturopath and these people that have just been years and years and years working in this space um and yet they're having a harder time getting visibility you know than someone with four million followers who throws their name on a white labeled product line.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no I actually wrote an article about this just you know last week I was like you know this is ridiculous like you can't profit off someone else's work and a lot of times those brands have uh really amazing scientists behind them that never get noticed they never get credit they never get noticed I mean you know not to be cliche but to bring up you know uh Brad Pitt's line it's$325 for one product but the guy behind it is a PhD you know this guy came up with a molecule and actually there's really nothing to that line just FYI but you know regardless regardless I mean you know there's a scientist behind it and I think um one of my big things now and going back to what you were saying is that this rise of the intellectual consumer it's kind of coming back and it's it or you know I don't know if it was it ever left but it definitely got oppressed for a while I'm not gonna lie you know there weren't that many intellectually stimulating conversations taking place about things like beauty and um you know people were kind of just clickbait you know zombies for a while but I think now we're finally seeing that there is this desire and this uh hunger for these conversations and and that's why you know for example like even with my platform I've noticed you know pod the podcast world is booming right now because people are actually tuning in.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: They don't care about the visuals they care about the storytelling you know getting to know a founder getting to know an amazing human being they've heard about you know and understanding them and and sharing those stories.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think really that comes back to what you had said initially about this feeling of you know being more connected after COVID.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've definitely seen that across the board you know no pun intended but you know we've been all the time yeah you know we've definitely seen it and I think it it it shows in things like this where people are gravitating towards audio versus video or you know whatever reading again thank goodness I know it's crazy.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well and you know if you think about just the damage that social media has done to to so many kids and especially girls and um it's it's really kind of terrifying how this is a drug that we've just handed our kids to use without any real supervision and I'm equally guilty of that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: And yet at the same time there's so much amazing stuff coming out of what you're discovering you know whether it's a podcast or a live stream or um even a TikTok but it's it's there's just so much and I just don't think our brains were built to try and absorb all that's out there and coming at us so quickly every day.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people whether they're going back to books or they're thinking like there's a few podcasts that you know I just like I just want to escape into you know what I mean?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I can go for a hike and I can listen and I can you know hear a story ha have a new perspective share learn something educate myself in a way that you know in the multitasking world we live in I'm driving I'm hiking I'm doing I'm usually doing something else but it it helps me get out of my head on I know the life the the to-do list that we all have nonstop running in our brains as well.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah but yeah you know it's just it's about again how do you discover those people and how do you know who to connect with and who do you trust and you know what we're really building at the board is that trusted pipeline um because we've also spent years trial and error you know learning like who's legit who's bullshit who's yeah who's you know who's like all talk no action who you know and and you you just see it and I think our bullshit meter is just getting you know more and more heightened um as scary as it's also you know you're seeing so much fake news and trying to understand you know these very salacious taglines and um get underneath what's really happening and I might I my side hustle for the last five years basically is I'm a voter.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: And about 28 of us when um President Trump was elected decided like okay we we can't stand by and watch you know and we decided if we can sell lipstick we can sell voting.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: So if we make it cool people may do it.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we've really leveraged all of our relationships and brand partnerships and we partner with the CAA with CAA and Disney and we've worked with NFL and NBA um all the way through to many many brands and it's just been incredible to again see this community coming together to leverage their platform.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Haley Bieber just shot our PSA that ran is running in front of um every movie in the AMC theaters up until the midterms and you know when you realize the power of of community where it's literally just grassroots um I think is when you kind of feel less less hope less hopeless that you know your voice doesn't matter and your dollar matters your voice matters you know the the community that you're building around you really matters.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: And again you know weirdly thanking COVID for for kind of blowing stuff up so that we could we could rebuild um and I think you know any anywhere you can get that information and find your people per se is is critical.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: No I agree I love what you're doing and I and I really commend you for that.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's what's such a wonderful cause and the fact that you've rallied um such influential people behind it is absolutely you know it's wonderful.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's truly wonderful.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we we could really take a page from your book you know in terms of figuring out what is it that matters and just you know coming back to that original point you had made of you know we're not here forever you guys you know it's you can't take anything with you.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: No so no matter how much money you accumulate how many material goods you get you you can't take it with you.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know so might as well do something meaningful while you're here you know so I was um weirdly talked to a death duela not too long ago and he you know hundred has helped hundreds and hundreds of people leave this planet and you know it's obvious but he's like no one ever said I wish I made more money I wish I had a bigger house I wish I you know it was more just like I wish I spent more time with the people that I loved was like the number one thing.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I I feel like you know COVID really did have us dig deep into what really matters.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you saw people make some some really critical life choices and for the board members a lot of them left corporate life because they're like I just can't do this anymore.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's not feeding my soul I'm not enjoying this um yet you know when you like I said you go alone it gets a little bit more you know the security is gone right and so you have to be able to take that risk and then how do you empower yourself and same thing if you're a founder and starting a business it's it's completely daunting.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know the odds are not in your favor unfortunately um but ultimately you know you're just driven by your passion and and really that's so much of the human spirit and reconnecting with what that is and and kind of taking your head out of the noisy messy um environment of of advertising and social media and FOMO 247 and really just kind of getting back to yourself.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me is is something that takes effort you know we kind of have to unplug and we have to give ourselves time to do that self-exploration.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can do that and you know balance it with with the side hustles and all the other stuff I think that's the game we're all playing now.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know it's no longer 25 years with the company right like those days it's about just reinvention you know and if you can do think about that positively as opposed to like daunting um my generation was you know we were kind of told we'd you know we saw the 20 year gold watch world right you know in retirement and I can think I know anyone who's retired you know I have a lot of friends in their 60s 70s even 80s and there's there's no retire you know it's like you do what you love you continue to chase and learn and um you know expand your horizons if you're curious and you you really are seeing the world as it is and where you can solve help solve some problems or help bring joy to others I feel like that's that's such a part of the second act you know I think most people that have hit 50 start to realize like oh wow you know this is not I get it there's I gotta I gotta start to think about legacy and think about contribution and think about what's really important.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's happening in younger generations where they're realizing that the dream is is not achievable, you know, in the way it was sold to us all.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a whole other podcast story.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: But um you know being where you are and thinking about you know what really nurtures you and whether you're it's a it's a side hustle passion, a volunteer it's you know the industry that you really want to understand, navigate, conquer, um, you know, having raising children in this world and raising you know people in a very daunting environment of what's happening it can it can be really overwhelming.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know what I love about the beauty industry and the sense of self-care and um really trying to tap in and whether it's breath work and meditation and all the stuff in the wellness industry that it is really legit.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: And yet you know it's it's maybe not as prioritized in terms of of how you can reset yourself in these stressful environments that we're also all just kind of forced to navigate on a daily basis which then kind of takes me back to community.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's no I mean it's all tied together and you know it's it's so funny because you you literally read my mind I was like you know she's everything you're explaining I'm like it really is about meditation man just go back to just meditate every day I really don't think people understand the power of that I don't think people understand just a breathing you know I'm I'm working with someone now who you know when you really understand your your you know your nervous system and just where it can take your whole mind body you know health it's it's really it seems so basic and yet it's something that we all just don't have time for or don't make time for.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm completely a victim in that too.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know finding wherever your meditation if your meditation is yoga or your meditation is a walk or a hike or walking the dog or whatever that is, right?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: But being able to kind of have moments throughout throughout your day to reset and to appreciate and to find gratitude and everything.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: And what I love to see on social media is now we have more and more people talking about aging and now obviously there's this huge menopause um for you know focus of all of these brands and conversations and you know taboo subjects that you know every couple of years we break through another one which is amazing and and you know realizing that it's we're siloed in so many ways and there's so much shame and it's that's a whole other thing.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and also taboo in in in whose mind you know I I grew up in a in a culture in a in a home where meditation was a daily ritual yoga was a d daily ritual my mother never pushed you know religion on me.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was very lucky in that sense and that regard and I never I remember even growing up when I was a teenager I never looked at menopause or you know the having a period or these things we talk about now, you know, the beauty industry is definitely coming out, like you know, about I never saw that as Tahoe, but I think it really depends on how you were raised, depends on who you were around.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: So like reprogramming your mind and reprogramming and recent yourself.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean I'm sorry to say it.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean everything has a protocol in life, you know, when it when it comes to your human body to your mind and your mind's protocol is to reset itself.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the best way to do that is, you know, self-awareness, meditation, whatever you want to call it.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I see so many new age people coming up and I'm sitting here like all of these things have been around for centuries.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't need a new uh person on social media, a new guru, you know, self-proclaimed guru to tell you how to meditate.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's just it's just so it's very, very ironic, you know, to say the least to see people kind of gravitate towards something that we've known for centuries at this point.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I know I know.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: But no April, this has been so lovely chatting with you and I could really actually do a whole series with just chatting with you.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: So this is this is lovely.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I love everything that you are you and the board are doing.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I'm I can't tell you how you know big of a service that is you know even to the people like I've I told you you know I get emails all the time and I have no idea about this area you know and right so I can't I can't imagine how many brands reach out to you guys but um you know keep doing what you're doing because that's oh I appreciate it so much I really do.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I was lovely to chat with you as well.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for giving me the the platform and of course yeah anytime hosting the conversation and you know keep on doing what you're doing as well you know wearing many hats as we all are yeah we got to keep on going you know it's it's like a a new hat pops up every day I feel like you know especially for women.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah true a lot to juggle um but that's why we're the stronger sex, right?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because we can well you know it's that extra chromosome I keep saying you know everyone's like well you know the why no you got to have two exes you know that's the superpower.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: But no April this has been lovely and for everyone listening um you know if you have any comments questions you know you want to add to the conversation I really welcome you to do that.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um send us a message leave a comment on the concept art but I'm gonna be tagging everything for the board um in the concept art for this episode and if you will have any questions for April's team definitely reach out and I will pass them along.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: But but I really really appreciate you know everyone who's tuning in and if you get a minute please go on to Apple Podcasts leave us a rating a written rating because that really helps us climb the chart so I would really appreciate that.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you make sure you're registered and make sure you vote.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes make sure you vote and register to vote.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes do that now actually if you're tuning in early voting starts October 28th.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome perfect thank you thank you April bye bye hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts brand founders industry leaders authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 47:23
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• 47:31
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• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast and it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 47:46
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• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: So check us out leave us a comment leave us a review and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.