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Kathleen Elkins - Williams College Women's Tennis · The Student Athlete Sessions

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the student athlete sessions.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Today we are joined by former Williams women's tennis player, Kathleen Elkins.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Kathleen was a, maybe the most decorated college athlete I've ever come across in my experience.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: And definitely the most decorated we've had on this podcast,
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: three-time national champion,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: countless,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: all Americans,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: all conferences.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: It all kind of runs together at some point.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now an accomplished writer covering personal finance and working for Business
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Insider and a really accomplished athlete off the court now exploring other
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: elements of her athletic identity.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So glad to have her on and Kathleen, welcome to the program.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Carl.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: That was quite the intro.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's hard.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're staring at three national championships.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's a pretty that's a pretty rare feat for a college athlete.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it still weird to think that you accomplish that or like how does that how
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: does that resonate now?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: sometimes I forget until I still have,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: they gave us watches at the,
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: for each one that we won,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: we got these like nice NCAA boxes that had watches in them.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I still have those three boxes in, and this was, you know, a decade ago.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I'm like, is it kind of cheesy to have these out?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, no.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the reminder that we won.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I forget.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: You get to show friends.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, yep, this happened three times.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, but no, I want to take it back to the start as we do with most guests.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And Williams is a small college in the Northeast.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're from Davidson, North Carolina, which is a small town in the Southeast.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So what did your recruiting process look like?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And a tennis is kind of
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: structured with rankings and you have an idea of kind of the level of your competition.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how did you kind of look at college opportunities and how you, maybe places you could fit?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: So first of all,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was lucky that high school tennis is something,
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: is a metric that most coaches,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: at least back when I was being recruited,
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: don't pay attention to because I went to a tiny high school and we did not have
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: enough people to field the tennis team.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I was just playing junior tennis and you're just kind of hoping that your
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: results stand out and catch someone's eye.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: But for the longest time throughout my junior tennis career, like
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to play D1 tennis.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: That was always the big goal from Davidson.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: So there's like a ton of great state schools like Chapel Hill, Duke.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: I had a dream.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: playing at Chapel Hill.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: when I was 12 and like top 30 in the country,
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: maybe that was a dream that came to realize.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: But as I got older,
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: and girls start to get really good at tennis and surpass you,
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: it was like pretty clear that I was not going to be going to a top D1 tournament.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: school to play so I actually have my grandpa to thank for introducing me to
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Williams because that's where that's his alma mater and he had a rule for every
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: grandchild he has nine grandchildren that they have to at least visit Williams so
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: my older brother went visited he was like nah pass the next cousin went visited nah
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: pass I was the third and I had zero expectations I was like
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Massachusetts like in the middle of nowhere where am I going and I instantly just
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: fell in love with the campus I went to one practice he like scheduled the whole
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: trip and and made sure we went to one of the tennis practices and they just looked
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: like they were having so much fun out there and I was like this is where I want to
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: play yeah what did what did that look like like a
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Walk us through the day.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Good weather.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: What were the things other than the atmosphere amongst the team that sold you on it?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny you say good weather because, yes, it was the perfect spring day.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And Williamstown,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Massachusetts does not get...
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: The weather is really,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: really harsh,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: especially for someone growing up in the South.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't own...
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: winter boots or even really a winter jacket.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I just didn't understand winter at that point in my life.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And thank goodness the day I was there was the most beautiful 70 degree spring day.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because if it was like any other spring day, which there were a lot of like cold, chilly ones.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: It might have altered my feelings, John Williams.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like this beautiful sunny day.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm at the courts.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: They have the speaker going, like the team always practiced to music.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And like, they just look like they're having so much fun out there.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: And tennis is a really individual sport.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I hadn't,
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: and because I didn't have high school tennis,
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'd never seen it played in the context of a team.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, whoa, like that looks like a lot of fun.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I didn't look anywhere else.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like, I want to go to Williams.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that was that.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so credit granddad on the plug to at least get you to go up there and look.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, a fortuitous day, maybe from a weather standpoint.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think the team dynamic speaks for itself.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a feeling that
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: most recruits can only get when they're there in person.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And definitely why we advocate for that, for getting, getting on campus in the spring.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's important.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Very important.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Also, I just remembered Allison, the coach who recruited me, she later told me, I had no idea.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: She told me that my granddad called her.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I was,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was a junior in high school and was like,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: my granddaughter's a great tennis player,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: like really like hyping me up.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, Oh, here's another crazy, like family member.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: calling me to tell them about their incredible tennis player that they have.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: And she looked me up and she was like, oh, she actually, she's not bad.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: She actually could be a good recruit.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually have him to thank.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: for putting me on her radar because like we didn't know what we were doing my older
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: brother had had already gotten into college but he didn't do sports like for
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: college so my family hadn't gone through the recruiting process and we had no idea
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: what to do so we actually really have him to thank because he's the reason Allison
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: even knew what my name was right
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: and tennis is a funny one where it's not like,
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: you can go to events,
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: but like you were saying,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: you kind of know,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: you knew you were top 30 as a 12-year-old.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know that?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: What is the...
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: there's there was it might be different now,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: but there was like just a ranking system and it depended on the level of
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: tournaments that you played.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a point system.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So if you played really competitive tournaments and you won a couple of matches, you got more points.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the coaches were really looking at the national rankings because I was North Carolina.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was always like top.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: five maybe in the state but that wasn't like and then the south was a very strong
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: section I was maybe top 30 um and then the nation I was my best when I was like
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: really young and then I like gradually kind of like got uh higher and higher in the
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: rankings but I was probably like
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: around 120 maybe like 100 at the highest um so yeah like but there's so many
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: players and you want you want the coach to like see you in person was the thing
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: like you want them to see you play and I had one opportunity to do that and this is
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: actually kind of a funny story this was there's like one recruiting trip it was
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: like a
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Not a trip.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was a showcase.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was called the Donovan Showcase, I'm pretty sure, actually.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was maybe in Dartmouth.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was far away.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: My mom, like, drove me, like, hours to get here.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I, like, was kind of sick.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I had, like, the flu or, like, something physical was off.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I lose my match.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And this is, like, the one match that Allison is there watching.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I lose 0-0, which is very hard to do in tennis.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: That might have been the only time I'd ever lost 0-0.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's very, very, very hard to lose without winning a game.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: I literally do not win a game.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom is freaking out after the match.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, again, I think I like had some illness.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm kind of like, I don't really know what's going on.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just happy to be off the court.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: My mom makes me email her right away and be like, like explain the situation.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: I like sent her some email was like,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: all right,
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: like we might've just,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: that might've just ruined my,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: my chances at,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: at Williams um it did not she later told me I like brought it up as a freshman I
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: was like remember the time so I play she's like yeah I wasn't really like worried
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: about the score I just wanted to see like your demeanor on court and like kind of
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: see how you would maybe like fit in with our team like from a personality
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: perspective so that was that was good
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's so funny what coaches are actually watching for in those moments.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think in terms of coaches we've spoken to from a basketball standpoint,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: it's often like they're just watching your body language.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of coaches want to see you have a bad game because they're already there watching you for a reason.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: They know you're a good player, but it's almost...
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, how did they, how does the, how does the athlete like react with their teammates?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do they go sulk?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Are they still in it?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do they picky picky pick someone else up when they're down?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it's not surprising, but yeah, you got, so it was like a six Oh six Oh situation.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: terrible it was so bad it was over so quick she didn't see the whole thing she only
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: saw a couple games but it was like that is the worst possible outcome that we could
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: have had and again like traveled so far for this showcase it was like the one
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: chance to see Allison um but yeah I guess I guess she she had confidence in me
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: still so yeah all worked out I
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and from doing some reading, you mentioned Cary Tennis Park earlier.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like you had played,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't know how women's tennis works,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: if it's like a small world where you kind of know all these people ahead of time,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: but it seems like you played some of your future Williams teammates at an event
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: when you were in high school.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot it was that.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: I played,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: actually,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: the girl who ended up playing number one for Williams,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: like number one singles and probably one or two doubles.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Was that Kara?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or Kristen?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: That was Kristen, yes, who is now one of my best friends.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: She's actually moving to Los Angeles in a month, and we will be neighbors.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I played her...
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: at some point in high school and beat her.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think Allison had that.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, okay, the girl knows how to play.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like she has beaten one of my top players.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I definitely had that in my face going for me.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: But the kind of nice thing about
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: playing in the South and growing up in the South and then going to school in a
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: different region was a lot of the players I had not played,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: which was really nice and refreshing because when you grow up playing junior tennis,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: like you play all the same people over and over again.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it just, it gets a little, it can get a little exhausting.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it was kind of exciting to like go in and like totally new fresh faces.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly some girls who had played tennis in the South I encountered, but not very many.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: but funny, I guess, to go from being kind of rivals in some way and competing for these college spots.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: like you said,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: being teammates and then 10 years removed from college,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: maybe still,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: still being friends and future roommates or neighbors.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I, I did find for the record on the, on the match with Kristen, uh,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Elkins beat a lot of in the back, draw seven, five, six, one, and posted the best record of the four.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it was you, Kristen, Kara Shoemaker, and Nancy Worley, and you went seven and one.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: So just, just for the record.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even know Kara and Nancy were there.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: No way.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: And those are three of my closest friends.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: I actually remember,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: because I remember playing Kristen,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: and then I remember,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: because she was two years above me,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: I remember going to school as a freshman at Williams and being like,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: God,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I beat this girl.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Is she going to like me?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a weird dynamic.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: But it was fine.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, then you make it to Williams.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have maybe, as with most recruits, it's not always a linear path.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: You have this weird...
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: illness that gets you down at the showcase you think you're not going to make it
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: you're but but but we know your coach was already watching you and maybe your
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: granddad's call helped help push you over the line um but yeah and then you so yeah
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: you get to williams and you ended up being a spanish major but if i read correctly
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: you were you went in pre-med what was your thinking from an academic standpoint
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: I actually forgot about that as well.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was pre-med until I took chemistry and chemistry destroyed me.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think also biology.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't know if the sciences are for me because there are a lot of science requirements.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I went in pre-med.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think I intended on being pre-med for two.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: for at least through freshman year and then maybe through sophomore year.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, I gotta pivot.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know if this is for me.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: But that was my dad in my ear.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, I feel like you should go pre-med.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: But honestly, like I had no, you're so young.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had no idea what I wanted to do.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: I just remember-
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: all of the Spanish classes that I took were my favorite classes.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I just like really looked forward to those classes and I was good in those classes.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, you know what?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm just going to major in Spanish and just take all of the Spanish classes that I can.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then also kind of use that as leverage to convince my coach to go abroad my junior year.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because at that point,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: so tennis is a fall and a spring sport.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: but the,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: the spring is when like nationals is,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: and like,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: that's,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: that's the real,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: the real season winter we're technically off,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: but we still practice fall was like the one time to go abroad and no one would go abroad.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Cause it was just like, not really part of the team culture.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was like expected that you, not that you were forced to stay on campus, but it was kind of expected.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that was like kind of a, uh,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: a big deal to like pitch going to Spain to my coach and being like, I will find ways to stay in shape.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: I promise.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I just kind of randomly was like, these are the classes that I enjoy the most.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just going to stick with them.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: I had a lot of friends who were double majoring,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of friends who were doing the finance path,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: also the pre-med path,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: like things that seemed a lot more impressive and was a lot more impressive than
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: just single majoring in Spanish.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I was kind of like,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: happy doing my own little thing yeah i think that's a that's a common refrain
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: amongst athletes especially like um at schools with with good academic reputations
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: and like people are doing a lot and there's this temptation to label yourself as an
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: underachiever if you know you are merely and we'll put it in air quotes doing a
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: single major along with playing your sport it's like
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: yeah it helps maybe to go talk to friends at other places and be like this is what
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing and they're like well how would you balance all that that's a it's a good
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: reminder yeah like school was so it was so hard I was like how are people doing
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: double but that was definitely like a thing that I had to like get over and be like
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: okay just because everyone else is doing a double major doesn't mean that that's
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: right for you and just kind of stuck with my god is there
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it sounds like you did.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you went abroad.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: You went to Valencia, if I think that's right.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And did you end up starting a trend amongst the Williams, at least the tennis team?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: I started a trend, and I was so proud of that.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: The next several years, hopefully still now, too, a bunch of girls went abroad.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was proud of that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: But also...
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Interestingly,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: so my freshman year,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: I played,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: I played probably lower in the lineup,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: but I played sophomore year,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: same thing played junior fall,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: I go to Spain,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't play,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: I played a little bit of tennis,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: not,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: not as much as I would have if I was on campus,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: maybe like once a week with with kind of random people that I found.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then I ran a bunch and I did like shadow exercises.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know how this translates to other sports, like tennis technique is very important.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was always very important to me.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I would bring my racket to a park and I would just go and I would hit like
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: shadow forehands and backhands and serves and volleys and everything for like an hour.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I would just shadow the stroke.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I had no idea at the time if it was like really doing anything, but yeah,
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I came back for spring semester and I played the best tennis I have ever played in my entire life.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: I will never forget junior spring.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: I played two singles.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I lost a match.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: I...
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: also was playing in the doubles lineup.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I probably lost some doubles matches cause that was not my strength,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: but I played the very best tennis of my life after that,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: after that,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: season abroad.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't feel bad about starting, starting the trend and having other people go abroad after that.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I, yeah, it's, I think it's a good thing.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And for the record, you did not lose a game.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You were a match.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You were 21 and oh,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: you're doing your season on the single side,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: 17 and eight on the double side,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: which is still very impressive.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: What do you attribute that to?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: personally,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: do you think it was a break for you that you had done this individual sport for so
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: long and it was nice to like,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: take a step away and you came back very refreshed or was it something else?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think the break was really nice because at that point,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: too,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: like we'd won two national championships.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: You really start to feel the pressure every year after winning again.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like it's really intense being on campus between like.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: one of your questions here was like, what'd you do off court?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I was thinking that's like, I was either playing tennis in the library or working.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was, it was a grind.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really nice having that break.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And like my classes in Spain were so chill compared to Williams.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember our professors telling us your homework is to go explore Valencia.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like they literally didn't give us any homework.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, you're done with class.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: You go out and you see the city and,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: and that's your homework.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm sure that kind of helped
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: like mentally, like coming in feeling refreshed, but also like I was really in shape after.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting because I feel like when you go abroad, maybe the opposite thing tends to happen.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: But in Valencia, it was my first time living in a major city.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up in Davidson, tiny town, went to school at Williams, tiny town.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Valencia is like the third biggest city in Spain.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: And to get around, you are supposed to take public transit.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'd never taken a bus or a train like
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm in a foreign country.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, there's no way I'm getting on public transit.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I walk from my homestay to campus, which was three miles away, every single day.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: And some days I did it twice because my host madre, she would prepare lunch for me.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like lunch was the big meal.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there were two days a week where I could,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: I had a big chunk of time and I could go home for lunch and I would walk back for
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: lunch and then back to campus.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: So there were some days where I was walking 12 miles a day,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: but every other day I was walking six miles a day.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the evenings I was running, I was running like three, nothing crazy.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was like going on a three mile jog through, through the park.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it was just in like really good shape, I think too.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that really helped going into junior spring.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So some casual 15 mile days, maybe a precursor for future endeavors that we can touch on in a bit.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Some foreshadowing.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some foreshadowing.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, I want to keep digging into the, to the tennis experience and kind of your role on the team.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: you,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: you had these,
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: you,
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: you rose up,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: you played a little freshman,
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: sophomore year on very good teams,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: national championship teams,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: both years.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then like you said, you went abroad, you come back, you're playing really strong.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like what, what was your role on the, on the team?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like how did,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: other than being obviously an individual,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: a great contributor on the court,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: like how did you,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: How did you fit in with the whole team dynamic?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, two things come to mind.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: The first thing that comes to mind.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm left-handed and there aren't very many left-handed tennis players.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a big advantage in doubles for various reasons.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: But it's just, it's good to have a lefty and a righty because then you can return from your forehand.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Typically the forehand is the stronger side.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I could play the add side of the court and have my forehand return and my
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: partner could play the do side and have her forehand return.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: alternatively we could flip and we could have four hands in the middle.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: So there's just a lot of like advantages to having a lefty on the doubles court.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And my coach who is very smart with tennis,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: recognize that and was like,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: and I am,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: I went into Williams having played basically zero doubles and,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: I hated coming to the net.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: My game style was very much like I'm going to get every single ball back and I'm
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: going to be at the baseline.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: The only time I'm coming to the net is to shake the opponent's hand at the end of the match.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: I hate everything about the net.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a great serve, but I am lefty, so that gives me some interesting options with the spin.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: But she was like, all right, you're in the doubles lineup starting freshman year.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was an interesting thing for me to navigate.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: I hated doubles.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: I felt very...
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: one it's weird playing with someone else because you feel like if you make a
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: mistake or if or if the team loses you feel like it's it's it's partly it's your
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: fault um but I really was uncomfortable out there for a couple of years and then
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: kind of grew to like embrace my role on the double side so that was an interesting
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: thing that I had to get past um singles was my role was very simple I uh freshman
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: year I pretty much played four singles and I like I
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: it was a, again, because of my game style, it wasn't like a one or two player.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like a very powerful player.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: So she just kind of put me at four where not to say I was guaranteed to win,
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: but like those matches,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I,
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was winning all those matches.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: So my role was like, okay, the guaranteed singles point.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I loved that.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: And like, as I got older, like I wanted to,
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I wanted to play higher up and like kind of challenge myself a little bit.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I did get to play like two my junior year, which was cool.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: for a while,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: my role was like,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: all right,
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: just like win your match so we have a guaranteed point on the scoreboard.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Which is valuable.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, ultimately, you're trying to get, what, is it six points?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what wins a tennis match?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: So let's see.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's different between one and three.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: So for us, yes, exactly.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Every point counted.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So three doubles matches and then six singles matches.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you need five to win the match.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we had a lot of, if it was a close one, it would be a 5-4 win or 4-5 loss.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would say last question on your tennis career,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: you were the team racket stringer is what I've been led to believe.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: What makes a perfectly strung racket?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I forgot about that too.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, sidebar before I answer that question.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: This was my on-campus job.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: So for kids on financial aid, they helped you
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: like they set you up with on-campus jobs.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And as a freshman, you get the really not so great ones.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're in the dining hall, like doing the dishes.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And like gradually you get to work your way up to some of the better ones,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: like swiping the dining hall card at the dining hall or whatever,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: or like working in the gym and just like swiping cards.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: You can just kind of like read and swipe and it's easy.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: But at one point they opened up a new job, the tennis stringer.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, heck yes.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like I, I know how to string rackets.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: This was my very first business when I was like 13,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: I asked for a tennis stringer for Christmas that I could start my own stringing business.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd been stringing business that had been stringing rackets for years.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought it was the coolest thing because I got paid to not only string all of
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: my teammates rackets,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: but also my own.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like stringing my own rackets, like getting paid to do that.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that was the coolest thing.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: How to string a perfect racket.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's, you just kind of like let the machine do the work.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: you like set it to a certain tension and then, I mean, yeah, there's not, there's not much to it.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then less is more the,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: so you string,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: the,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: oh gosh,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: the words are escaping me,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: but like,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: you start by doing the,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: the like vertical,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: strings and then you do the weaving and the second half.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And, and that's what a really good stringer is like super fast at the weaving.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you can like a really good stringer can probably do it in like 15 minutes.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: I worked my way down to maybe like 20,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: 25,
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: but that was always like,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: you're always on the clock and like trying to do them as quickly as possible.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when you're literally on the clock getting paid for it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: and yeah,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: you talked about your,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: your on-campus experience and how you were looking at your teammates and saying like,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: wow,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: they're all doing these impressive things,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: but you were also working in the sports information office as a writer.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Was that a on-campus job as well?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or was that more of like a, something you were interested in?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you did it on your own volition.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember how I got involved with the sports info department,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: but at some point I did and I really liked it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I, the only job available was,
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at first I was, I was like the assistant ice hockey reporter.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: And this is really funny because like I had never been to an ice hockey game.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Ice hockey is not like the biggest sport in North Carolina.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: I knew nothing about the rules.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I, oh, here's, okay.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: So the team also had jobs.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: So like our team, we had to work certain jobs to pay for like spring break or whatever.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: And we would do stats, right?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I've got a funny story for you, too.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: We would do stats for the hockey team.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I would have maybe four games a season that I had to go.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you're in the box where, like, the person doing the scoreboard is.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you're, like, writing down...
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Shots on goal, like who's scoring, penalties.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: And again,
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: for like someone who knows nothing about hockey,
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: like this was always the most stressful job for all of us.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: We just found it so funny because it's like a very physical game and you have the
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: like tennis team in the box,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: like reporting the stats.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: But somehow that turned into me being the assistant like reporter.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I would basically shadow this older student.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Her name was Margie.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: She was great.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: She was the one who was actually writing stories.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And for a year, I just kind of like watched what she did.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this like little notebook where I'd like write hockey terms in it because
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even like think of any now.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: But like there's like certain terms in hockey that she would use a lot in her articles.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I just like write those down and be like, oh, like what could I use for this article?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then when she graduated, that job opened up.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I reported I did the game recaps for the men and women's hockey teams,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: which was hysterical because I knew nothing about hockey.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I'll tell you a quick story.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: This was this was not there's two quick ones.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we were in charge of them.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: playing the national anthem at the hockey games.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: This was step one.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then we had to like record the stats.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: And one of my teammates queued up the wrong song and started playing Beyonce right
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: when the national anthem was supposed to go on.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that was one blunder we made.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's honestly a miracle our team didn't get fired.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Then there was one year when they had us record shots on goal.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: but they didn't explain to us that a shot like it has to make contact with the
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: goalie or something like if they shoot it and it's going close to the to the to the
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: net or whatever but doesn't hit it it's not a shot so we were recording every
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: single like shot that looked like a shot and recorded something like over a hundred
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: shots on goal and like gave that to the coach after
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is like an important like playoff game.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, are you kidding me?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no way they were a hundred.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so it really like amped up the goalie stats.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: It was hysterical.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't, it's just, it's, it's hilarious to me that they entrusted us with that stuff.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: The goalie had like the career saves record after that, after one game.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's funny to hear that.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's good,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: as I mentioned at the start,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: you're now an accomplished writer and journalist,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: reporter.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a good reminder to know that everyone has humble beginnings,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: regardless of where they,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: now are in their career.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: but yeah I just remember like it's like it's so cold in there too in the and I just
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: remember sitting in there like shivering like what this is actually I'm so glad you
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: reminded me of this because now I'm like working remotely and like in Los Angeles
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: but yes technically my first like reporter role I was like sitting in this freezing
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: hockey arena yeah you knew it I think so
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's more often than not, you learn what you don't like, and that actually leads to career growth.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that's what it was.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: You were like, I think I cannot be a hockey beat reporter and not sit in a cold gym.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: But prior to that, I mean, it seems like you kind of stumbled in to...
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: that beat and like, did you have an interest in writing?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Cause it is afterwards.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: You, you ended up taking a internship with business insider after graduation.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Was that kind of like a,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: it's easy to,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: it's easy to make a narrative out of that and say there's a continuation of a theme here,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: but yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like where did the interest in writing come from?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: I always like my, my favorite high school teacher was my English teacher.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I always liked writing in high school because of him.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I did take,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: so Williams does a winter study program where for January,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: you don't have your regular four or five classes.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: You just have one class for the whole month and you can go as intense or not intense as you want.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like one year, I literally took juggling and learned how to juggle and,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: But one year I did journalism.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so between like that and then doing the sports info stuff,
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: after graduating,
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: I took the very first job that I got because I was like freaked out about not
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: having a job.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it was actually a really bad fit.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I quit after two months and then spent three months doing
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: doing like actually string tennis rackets was one of my odd jobs but really doing
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: applying to a bunch of jobs and doing being very intentional with like okay what do
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: I actually want to do because senior spring you're again like I'm playing tennis
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to finish up my classes you're also trying to job search I don't really
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: know what I want to do like I just there's not time to actually think about or
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: space like what do I want to do so
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: as freaked out as I was to like not have a job.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was like 22 and had just quit.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, at least I can like really think about what I want to do.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, all right, what do I like to do?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: And like, what am I good at doing?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, well, like writing, I've always really liked writing.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then I knew that I wanted to be in New York city, which is where all my tennis teammates were.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was living in Boston right after graduating and really didn't like it.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, all right, writing,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I applied to one job a day for three months.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: And pretty much every single one either didn't get back to me or got back to me and
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: said no,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: except for Business Insider.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, we'll have you for an interview.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I went and interviewed for an intern position.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the start of the journalism career.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Similar to recruiting,
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: there's this randomness and perseverance necessary for the job search that you're
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: going to hear no way more than you hear yes.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: But what was it like working in New York?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like big city, beat writer.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you described yourself as when you went to Valencia, you hadn't been to many...
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: and lived in any big cities before, like what was that adjustment like in New York?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then taking on this like personal finance beat.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: I had been to New York once maybe.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm honestly so glad I had no, I was very naive going into New York.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea what the cost of living was like.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: I had, I just had no idea.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: I went in blind and I am so glad it was that way because my first job as an intern,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was making $12 an hour and
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: When you do the math, that is hard to make that work in New York.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I was just so excited to have a job that I was excited about.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was so excited to be in a city where all my best friends were.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm just going to make it work.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: And actually,
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: one of the first things I did was look for another job because I was like,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: rent is taking up my entire $12 an hour salary.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I started working at...
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: a tennis center on the weekends.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: That was kind of my intro to like, oh, like this skill that I have, I can monetize.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly,
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: since graduating,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: I've made money through tennis in some ways to perform,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: whether it's stringing rackets or teaching or,
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: or whatever.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: But, um,
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I was just so excited to be in New York.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't even thinking about my like small little paycheck.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said,
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: I started reporting on personal finance and just learned a lot about money and
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: budgeting and investing just while at my job,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: which was super helpful because I needed those skills to survive.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I...
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: I kept an Excel spreadsheet that I still have to this day.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I recorded every single expense, every single thing that I bought every day.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I kept track of my income coming in.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: I just made sure that the income was higher than the expenses and I made it work.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you were not only covering the beat,
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: you were living it and like experimenting live with different tactics.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those ended up landing you on
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Good Morning America.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is why you're working for CNBC.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even remember, honestly.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Was this the cash diet?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: The cash diet, yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I just remember seeing this story and being like, wait, that's wild.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: how did you go from being an intern making $12 an hour to now being on Good Morning
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: America talking about your budgeting hack?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great question.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: I,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: the cool thing about being an intern and being like the youngest one in the
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: newsroom is you're,
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: you're like the yes person,
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: you know?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And like,
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: if an editor needs you to,
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: needs a reporter to do something kind of out there,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: like they know to come to the intern,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: the intern is going to say yes,
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: if they're smart.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: And there was, I don't even know how this, okay, yes, this was at CNBC.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: So when I transitioned to CNBC, this was kind of cool.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: CNBC was starting a new branch of the website called CNBC Make It.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: And there were only three of us who started on this team when I started.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it was me, one reporter and an editor.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we were, it kind of felt like a startup, but we even had a separate office outside of CNBC.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we were really tiny.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: A video editor got hired at some point and had this idea called Cash Diet.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: And they wanted someone to see if they could live on a set amount of cash per week in New York.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: And she randomly set it at $60 a week.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: for anything that wasn't fixed costs so like what rent utilities whatever like like
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: for anything else food laundry entertainment etc $60 a week for eight weeks like I
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: don't know how she decided all this and who does she decide to choose to do this
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: well me I was not an intern at that point but I still was the youngest one in the
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: newsroom and was kind of like down for whatever and
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I did this crazy experiment and it was eight weeks and they gave me like three twenties a week.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I went around and tried to live on $60 a week in New York.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I recorded my adventures.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: They just told me to use my iPhone and like take videos.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then they would edit videos and I would write an article.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: We did this for eight weeks straight and our audience really liked it.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point, Good Morning America had me on YouTube.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: to talk about it, which was pretty cool.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: that is awesome.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: it's so relatable and no,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: no young person in New York or very few are sitting there being like,
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: guys,
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had it figured out in terms of like how to budget.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think just to watch someone go through that and have constraints and see like the
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: ins and outs of it,
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: or like how you creatively figured out solutions to,
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: to have fun or,
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: not just like live under a rock and like still experience New York was pretty cool.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Must've been relatable.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was fun.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I still have friends today who are like,
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: cash,
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: because they did not have a necessarily positive experience with cash diet because
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: I would like,
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like hop in on like their Uber or whatever and like,
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: or they'd want to go out on a Saturday and I'd be like,
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: like I can come,
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: but you know,
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: I can only get like a cup of water
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't actually like buy anything at the restaurant.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I do remember the eight weeks culminated.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: I went to Mardi Gras with one of my closest friends, another tennis teammate.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Cash Diet ended.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, we were there for like four or five days.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the first two days were still Cash Diet.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then the last like three or four were not.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we really went big after Cash Diet was over.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, drinks on me.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry for the last eight weeks.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, I don't know.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: You said you weren't the intern anymore, but maybe still have that like, yes, yes.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Mentality.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know more recently back with business insider after, after this stint with CNBC, um,
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: more recently you took on, maybe on your own choosing, a project to do an Iron Man.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that, am I misrepresenting that or how did that story and reporting beat come about?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: This was not my fault.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: This was another tennis teammate.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Surprise, surprise.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: We were in the Boston Marathon together a couple years ago,
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: and she was living in Boston,
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: so I stayed with her.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: We were watching these Ironman videos on YouTube the day before to get amped up.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, I've been wanting to do an Ironman since college.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, would you do one with me?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, yeah, like, cool.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, sounds great.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: Had no idea what an Ironman was.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, barely knew what a triathlon was.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, had no idea the distances involved.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like, okay, cool.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: So this was April of 2020.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: 2022 was Boston marathon.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: We then a couple of months later choose an Ironman to do.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: We choose Austria 2023, I believe.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that was June of 2023.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that,
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: so January of 2023,
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: six months before we just start training for this thing and ready or not,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: here we come Austria,
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: June 23rd.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And how'd it go?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: What was the story that you wrote?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: So a cool thing about my job is like, I get to write about my personal experiences a lot.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: And my editor really gives me, I'll pitch him kind of whatever.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: And he's normally like, cool.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds good.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was like,
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: let me write a story about how much this race cost me and why it was a worthy investment.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: And Ironman is super expensive.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: with the gear, the entry fees.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Also, we chose a race in Europe.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: So like getting there and back.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways,
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote about,
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what the exact number was,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: but how much money I spent to do the Ironman and why I thought it was worth the
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: price tag.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we did against all odds.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: We were the blind leading the blind in this training journey.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: We did cross the finish line and we did become Ironwomen.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: and yeah,
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: it seems like this has become a theme we were talking,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: at least for you,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: we were talking before we started recording and,
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: you said you had just wrapped up your 17th marathon this past weekend,
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: set a PR,
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: which congratulations is,
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: is,
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: to,
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: to run one is,
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: is impressive to run 17 and then hit a new mark on number 17 is,
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: is pretty cool.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a far cry, though, from walking back and forth from campus in Valencia.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's finishing their athletic career,
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: not really sure what's next for them as an athlete,
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: how would you describe your path from being a tennis player to now be a more
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: competitive runner,
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: iron woman in that life after college?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just remember graduating college and being so excited to be able to run again.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because quick backstory, I ran cross country in middle and high school.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, tiny high school, we could not field any sport except for cross country.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I was literally the only girl on the cross country team for most of high school.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't matter.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can have one person on the team.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: You can have 10 people on the team.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I really, really loved running.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Go to college.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: And our coach, she was very good, very intense.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's a reason she won so many national championships.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: The way she saw distance running, she was like, this is going to slow you down on court.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: Tennis is about moving quickly and, like, fast twitch fibers.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, you can't run distance.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: I remember...
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Signing up for,
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: we had PE credits,
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: which I thought was so silly because I'm like,
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: we're playing two seasons of tennis.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: You also are going to make us do PE.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I signed up for a long distance running class and Allison found out and took me out of the class.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to like re-enroll in like, like snowshoeing or something terrible.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, I just remember graduating college and being so excited to run again.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I hadn't been able to run distance for like four years really.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I ran my first half marathon, like summer of graduating or fall after graduating.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I loved it.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: I loved the camaraderie.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: I loved that it was competitive with yourself, but not necessarily with other people.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: I loved that logistically, it was very easy to just...
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: grab a pair of shoes the lace of your sneakers and just go outside I thought it was
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: a great way to see and experience a city um and even if I wasn't burnt out from
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: tennis which I did feel a little burnt out it's super hard to play tennis in a
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: place like New York like
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: court time there's just there's no space so you're either paying a lot of money to
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: play or you're waiting in line for hours to play on a public court so I wasn't
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: really interested in playing tennis after college because I was a little burnt out
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: and running was just like a very natural thing for me to do and then a bunch of my
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: teammates also really got into distance running and we have a lot of Williams
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: former Williams tennis players who are now marathoners and triathletes and it's
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: cool
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: helps to have that crew around it and people like your other teammate who got you
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: excited to run the the um the iron iron man in uh in europe and yeah and it's it's
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: the camaraderie it's like the same elements that probably got you fired up to go
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: from playing tennis as an individual sport to playing tennis as a team um yeah it's
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: just cool cool to shout out
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: One thing,
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: so now that I'm kind of a part of,
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've found really good community through running,
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: especially here in Los Angeles,
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: where it's a very active city.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I've gotten to participate in these team relay races.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: We've done one the past few years where you run from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it is, I just remember...
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: like graduating college and having those experiences at nationals and like winning
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: national championships with like my best friends with this feeling of just like
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: pure relation.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm never going to have this feeling again.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is such a cool thing.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just, nothing will ever top this.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Another reason I probably like didn't really want to play tennis after graduating.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I've peaked.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't, I can't,
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: We can't get better than what already happened.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: But some of these team relay races really remind me of the camaraderie that I felt at Williams.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like the closest thing that I've been able to feel to being on court with
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: all my closest friends.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so that has been really, really special for me.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it also like running kind of fills this competitive void in a way where like,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need to compete one-on-one against someone in tennis.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: I like that running allows me to compete with myself and just myself.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it is a common refrain from athletes.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like,
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: in many ways,
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's age,
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: training regimen,
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: having access to facilities,
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: like the likelihood,
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: there is a small portion that continues to play either sport professionally.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure what the,
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: the,
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: the pipeline from D3 women's tennis to,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: to the pro tour is,
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: if there are any examples,
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: probably a different route there.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: But no,
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: it is – yeah,
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: it's fun to explore something else and be competitive and,
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: lean into a different part of your athletic identity.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd say any recruit listening to this,
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: if you just graduated or you're about to graduate and you're wondering –
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: like what what the next steps are just know that there is an athletic future beyond
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: your sport if you want it and um that you know you can probably tackle things that
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: kathleen i'm not sure when you were sitting there being like i like running and i
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: want to take this class like did you ever imagine that you'd be doing 17 marathons
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: and running from la to vegas and
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, definitely not.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just, it's actually, I'm drawing parallels now with the, like, choosing of the Spanish major, too.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I always just kind of,
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: I like running,
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take this class,
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: or,
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: I like running,
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'll start running,
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: and then it kind of just grows and builds from there,
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: certainly,
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: so I did my,
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: first half after graduating and was,
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: that was cool,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'll probably never do
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: marathon like doing two of that sounds crazy but the more you're in it and you just
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: you accomplish one thing and then you want to accomplish the next and here we are
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: now doing ironman then uh first first 50 miler um this july so we'll we'll see how
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: that goes that is huge where is that race happening
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's in Mount Hood, Oregon.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I found it with Linda, my former teammate.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it is a beginner-friendly 50-miler.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what sold us on it.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's easier right into the 50 miles.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's typically, yeah, typically my standard for a beginner race, 50 miles.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: the reason we also chose Austria for the Ironman was we Googled top 10 easiest
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: Ironman races and Austria popped up.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that was literally the only like that was all we looked at.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it was not easy.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to set the expectation.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to go into Mount Hood thinking it's going to be a little harder than advertised.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the disclaimer.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: We'll add don't don't believe everything you read online.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's awesome.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, any cool stories you're covering now?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're still, you're, you're a senior, or I guess you were a senior investing reporter.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're now a correspondent for business insider.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Any, any, anything out there that you haven't covered yet that you're curious about?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have a cool series I'm working on.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: I interview a lot of people who make money through e-commerce and selling things online,
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: whether that's like Amazon or Etsy or whatnot.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, when I interview these people, they make it sound pretty straightforward and pretty easy.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you know what, how straightforward and how easy is this really?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm working on a cool series where I am launching an e-commerce business, essentially.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing it with a friend.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: We're both putting $5,000 up of our own money.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we're starting with 10K budget.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: and we are making pickleball paddles and we're building a brand and we're going
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: through the whole process.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to be writing like an eight to 10 part series on what it actually
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: takes to start an e-commerce business and whether we're successful or not.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think it'll be interesting if we make zero money.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's just as interesting as if, if it's the opposite and we, and we make a lot of money.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah,
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: that i'm i'm excited about that one where can we where can we follow along or where
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: can people read that that series and follow you on your way to becoming pickleball
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: uh paddle magnets um yeah so unfortunately i write behind a paywall at business
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: insider so a lot of my stuff is not accessible i wish it was um but yeah i mean if
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: you just search my name and business insider my
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: byline comes up and everything that I've reported on.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're experimenting with a smart paywall now though.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have never read Business Insider,
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: you might get like a couple of free articles before they hit you with the paywall.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: But sadly, most of my stuff is behind the paywall.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: That said,
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: I do try to post things on LinkedIn and I'll give like very detailed,
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: I try to give like a couple of paragraphs so you get a feel for the story.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so maybe you can learn some things without actually having to like click and
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: pay and read the whole story.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but here's our advocacy.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Support a former D3 athlete.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: He does great writing.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: College students definitely can learn from the personal finance side of things.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's an investment in yourself.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Read more and read the writing of former D3 athletes.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's our stance on the issue.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, please.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, if you subscribe, make sure it's from one of my stories so I get credit.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we will close this up as we do with most guests.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you've given some great personal finance, college job advice for kids recruiting.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you were in a room with 17, 18 year old Kathleen, any advice that you'd give to her?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, one, I would say just don't take things too seriously.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was a perfectionist,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: still have a little bit of that in me,
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: but I don't know when you're that age and something happens like you lose 0-0 in
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: the one match that your future coach gets to watch you,
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: like it's easy to feel like the world is ending and it's not.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second thing is like,
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: Just enjoy once you're once you're like on campus and and like a college student
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: and playing your sport,
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: like just really soak it in and enjoy it because I miss those days so much.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: And like my group chat with a couple of my closest like group text chat with some
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: of my closest tennis friends.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: we're always like, Oh, we miss the glory days.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like we miss being able to, like we would practice four to 6 PM and then go to dinner together.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, that was such a nice time in our lives.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I, I think I did soak it in, but you know, uh, that's, yeah, I wish I could go back.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's over.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's over fast.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Very fast.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Too fast.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: Kathleen, well, awesome.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming on.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: This has been,
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: this has been fun and we will keep,
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: keep,
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: stock of where you are with the 50 miler with this,
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: this new series you have rolling.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: any,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: anywhere else,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you mentioned LinkedIn and people can subscribe off your post on business insider,
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: anywhere else where you post content or where people should follow you.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: LinkedIn and, and yeah, NBI.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Kathleen, thanks for coming on.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Carl.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: This has been another episode of the student athlete sessions.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: All previous episodes are available wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this,
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: take two minutes and leave a rating,
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: leave a comment and it helps us grow and keep spreading cool stories of former D3
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: athletes like Kathleen.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for listening and see you back for the next episode.