Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 34 - Penny Lancaster: The truth about menopause care

Transcript

34 - Penny Lancaster: The truth about menopause care · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

• 0:00
  Penny Lancaster is my guest today.
• 0:02
  She gives a really open account of her own story, not just her
• 0:06
  own menopause story, but her life in general.
• 0:10
  But her menopause was diagnosed by the team in Loose Women.
• 0:13
  She had been misdiagnosed as depression and thought she
• 0:16
  actually had depression and needed antidepressants.
• 0:19
  So it was a real honor to meet her as a patient in COVID times
• 0:24
  and help her to educate herself about hormones and also about
• 0:28
  the different symptoms, which has really helped her to educate
• 0:32
  so many other women about hormonal health.
• 0:36
  So Penny. Hello.
• 0:38
  We've only met once in real life.
• 0:41
  I know, haven't we? But it's I feel like I've known
• 0:44
  you forever because I feel like you've also changed my life.
• 0:48
  Oh, Penny, thank you. I mean, that really slippery
• 0:51
  slope that I went on, you know, when I just when I was like 49,
• 0:58
  kind of crying out for help in the middle of lockdown, thinking
• 1:02
  it was the anxiety and fear around lockdown that was causing
• 1:08
  my symptoms to the point where I, I'm always the guiding light
• 1:13
  and the one that people turn to for help.
• 1:16
  And you know, the answers. I, I couldn't even help myself.
• 1:20
  And I was like literally just on the floor in a, in a ball of
• 1:24
  sweat and tears and just panicking.
• 1:28
  And then my GP, who I had at the time, male, just responded to
• 1:35
  the tears with antidepressants. And did you know then that you
• 1:38
  weren't depressed or did you? No, I thought I was depressed.
• 1:40
  And I'd never felt that way before, so I didn't recognise
• 1:44
  it. But of course I hadn't had any
• 1:47
  knowledge on what menopause was other I'd heard of the word but
• 1:52
  I didn't understand it at all. And it wasn't until I went on
• 1:55
  one of the Loose Women shows and it was when we were back in the
• 1:59
  studio, I think it was, but there was no audience because of
• 2:02
  the lockdown. Rules and stuff.
• 2:04
  And I was describing what I was feeling and they were like,
• 2:08
  Penny, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you got this all wrong.
• 2:12
  You were not depressed. This is your hormones.
• 2:15
  This is the menopause. Your body is like being depleted
• 2:19
  of the hormones and, and obviously you know, women will
• 2:25
  have side effects, Some are going to be affected more than
• 2:28
  others, but this is everything. You're ticking enough boxes to
• 2:31
  suggest that it's the menopause and they better get some blood
• 2:36
  work done. And then that was a whole
• 2:38
  misconception because then I realised that actually having
• 2:41
  gone through IVF and having blood work done with that,
• 2:45
  there'll be one month I'd take my blood.
• 2:47
  It's not really a great month. Hormones aren't where they need
• 2:50
  to be. Let's wait, be patient.
• 2:52
  We'll test you another week. Boom, they were great.
• 2:56
  So what's the point in doing a blood test to see if you're
• 2:59
  hormonal? Because one week it's my next
• 3:01
  minute it's not. And we all know that you have a
• 3:05
  good period and a bad period, one that's like clockwork, the
• 3:08
  other one that just goes on longer and it's heavier.
• 3:11
  And so, you know, I was told by you and passed on the message to
• 3:16
  others that it's, it's all about let let, I mean, the list goes
• 3:20
  on and on. But if you can at least take
• 3:22
  five of those main symptoms, then just talk to your GP,
• 3:28
  request that you go on to it. And then maybe two or three
• 3:31
  months down the line, look at doing blood.
• 3:33
  Work, yes, and that's really important.
• 3:34
  And I remember, I mean, you've written about it in the book, so
• 3:37
  I'm not disclosing anything, but you know, you were in a really
• 3:41
  bad place. But you are a massive copper,
• 3:44
  you know, I remember because you had all the children at home and
• 3:47
  we, I mean, we all did. Schooling.
• 3:49
  Yeah. So there was a lot that you had
• 3:51
  to deal with, but you've always dealt with a lot, Yes.
• 3:53
  And I remember you saying, you know how worried you were about
• 3:56
  yourself and Rod was, obviously. Very concerned, yeah.
• 3:59
  Concerned about you? Because it was just, you know
• 4:03
  who, who did everyone look to for the answers and the
• 4:06
  decisions? Was me.
• 4:07
  And then I wasn't there. No, not.
• 4:09
  Really. No, not presently saying you
• 4:12
  just wanted to escape from the house.
• 4:13
  Yeah, I used to lie in a hammock in the the the chicken area,
• 4:18
  like and hide like, like a cocooned myself up and just
• 4:23
  wanted to shut myself off from everyone.
• 4:25
  Like don't come to me. I'm I'm I'm no use to you kind
• 4:28
  of feeling. You see, it's, it's funny, but
• 4:30
  it's not funny. And, you know, even since we
• 4:33
  last met, we've, I've been funding a PhD student in suicide
• 4:36
  prevention and I'm really focused on mental health and
• 4:39
  hormones because, you know, I've lost count the number of women I
• 4:43
  see who have really struggled. And they've not just had
• 4:46
  antidepressants, they've had antipsychotics, they've had
• 4:48
  lithium, they've had electroconvulsive therapy.
• 4:51
  And they think that's the path, you know, that's their lot
• 4:55
  really. And a lot of women just become
• 4:58
  more and more invisible. They, they can't cope because of
• 5:01
  their mental health symptoms. And they think that's just the
• 5:05
  way it is. And we've known that for
• 5:07
  hundreds of years. Women have become more invisible
• 5:10
  as they've aged. But actually it doesn't have to
• 5:12
  be that way. And it really frustrates me and
• 5:15
  saddens me that so many people can't get hormones.
• 5:17
  Well, it absolutely frustrates me because you you look at what
• 5:20
  you're talking about being invisible, like the workplace of
• 5:25
  women that have been working hard but working their way up
• 5:29
  the ladders. It were, you know, on on par
• 5:32
  with their male counterparts who's going to get the
• 5:35
  promotion? And it's a that real prime age
• 5:40
  when we've gained all that experience and knowledge, we're
• 5:43
  suddenly we feel like we're falling apart.
• 5:45
  And like you're saying, nobody can see me and I can't remember
• 5:49
  this or, you know, I'm forgetting things.
• 5:52
  I, I've got the brain fog or I can't sleep at night, so I can't
• 5:55
  function properly during the day and all those things.
• 5:57
  And maybe I'm not what I thought I was.
• 6:00
  Maybe I should just slip away and just hand in my notice and
• 6:05
  and did you see that? Happens and you know, years ago,
• 6:08
  so about 10 years ago, I did some work for West Midlands
• 6:10
  Police. And I know obviously police
• 6:12
  falls very close to your heart as well.
• 6:14
  And I just did half a morning a month and they wanted me just to
• 6:18
  talk about menopause and symptoms.
• 6:20
  And they, when I first went in, they were talking about policies
• 6:24
  and I said, Oh no, I'm not an HR consultant.
• 6:26
  I have no idea about policies or pay or 8 any HR things but what
• 6:31
  I can do is just inform women and when I first went there was
• 6:34
  about 8 women lovely women round the table and they all just said
• 6:38
  Oh no hormones means cancer doesn't it?
• 6:40
  And I said, no, it doesn't actually, let me just tell you
• 6:43
  about all the symptoms because they thought it was just hot
• 6:45
  flushes. And one by one they're saying,
• 6:47
  oh gosh, I'm I was going to hand in my notice or I've come off
• 6:51
  the beat. And now I'm working in an office
• 6:52
  job because I can't walk. It's really painful.
• 6:54
  My joints are stiff and I can't lift my grandchildren and put
• 6:57
  them on the swing. And they were all thinking about
• 7:00
  their early retirement. And I thought, gosh, and one by
• 7:03
  one when they were talking about their experience with their
• 7:05
  healthcare professional, they they're all on antidepressants.
• 7:09
  So I said, well, maybe you should think about hormones.
• 7:11
  And then over the months they would come back and they would
• 7:14
  talk about, Oh my goodness, I'm on hormones and I'm so much
• 7:17
  better. And you should try it.
• 7:18
  You should try it. And, and at the end of the year,
• 7:21
  there were hundreds of people in the room and it was like stand
• 7:24
  up room only when the last session and everyone was so
• 7:26
  empowered. And it was, it was just
• 7:28
  brilliant. We even got the chief constable
• 7:30
  involved and because once you see it, you can't Unsee it
• 7:34
  exactly, but it's getting to that stage, isn't.
• 7:37
  It well, you see so many household names promoting
• 7:43
  products, you know, health, this is health benefits, you know,
• 7:47
  this this cream or this tonic or this signals like that, you
• 7:50
  know, but you know, we're talking about this a product
• 7:55
  that we're not selling. We're talking about a product
• 7:58
  that we it's something that we've always produced our entire
• 8:02
  lives naturally, absolutely. And why should we be without it?
• 8:07
  And now, thanks to the work that, you know, with the
• 8:12
  marching to Parliament, with Manhole's mandate and you know,
• 8:15
  Caroline Harris, you know, at at least we've, we've got the, the,
• 8:20
  the cost down. Yes, Oh yeah, it's been a
• 8:23
  massive difference. It's still like one fee for a
• 8:27
  whole. It doesn't.
• 8:27
  Include testosterone. But it still does not include
• 8:31
  testosterone because someone, I would think it was probably a
• 8:35
  male, has decided that women don't need.
• 8:37
  That which is crazy. I've spoken to quite a few women
• 8:40
  who have been fined. So their doctor didn't know it
• 8:42
  didn't cover testosterone because it's about hormones.
• 8:45
  So they've presumed it was a HRT and testosterone.
• 8:48
  And a husband came up to me recently and said, you know, my
• 8:51
  wife just got a fine and it's about, I can't remember the
• 8:53
  exact, it's either 80 or 100 lbs.
• 8:55
  It's a lot of money for, for, for people.
• 8:57
  And they've had to pay this fine and they said we never did it,
• 9:01
  trying to avoid the money. We just thought it was covered.
• 9:04
  So it's really fine. For what?
• 9:05
  Because they've got got their testosterone for free.
• 9:09
  And so they then get a letter back with a fine to say no, it's
• 9:12
  not covered. You shouldn't have put it
• 9:14
  through. Oh, I know.
• 9:16
  It's really sad. So, yeah, so we've still got
• 9:18
  things that we need to change. HR2, it's two.
• 9:21
  It's hormone replacement. I know therapy.
• 9:24
  It doesn't say. Oh, except, except it doesn't
• 9:28
  include. It doesn't say that.
• 9:29
  No, no, no. But that's the small print,
• 9:31
  which that's people don't realise, but it's but it it what
• 9:34
  did what Carolyn Harris and others.
• 9:36
  And you know, you were the mandate and everybody working
• 9:39
  together. It's just about awareness and
• 9:40
  choice. And you know, what I feel really
• 9:43
  sad is that HRT prescribing is less than half of what it was 20
• 9:47
  years ago when that study came out.
• 9:49
  You know, it used to be 30% of menopausal women were prescribed
• 9:53
  hormones in the UK. And then the.
• 9:55
  Negative report came out. Yes, and then it scared people,
• 9:58
  scared people away. But has it has.
• 10:00
  It increased in in the last two years.
• 10:02
  With all the work that you know everyone's been doing the last
• 10:04
  10 years or so, it's gone from 10% to 14%.
• 10:08
  So it's still and it's plateaued the last year.
• 10:11
  I think we're going back in time.
• 10:12
  The stories that we hear of doctors refusing has become a
• 10:15
  lot more. So it's 14% in the last year,
• 10:19
  it's plateaued. It's not kept going up.
• 10:22
  Oh, that's that's disappointing to hear it.
• 10:24
  Is and in in the US it was 40% of women who were menopausal
• 10:28
  before the WHI study, and now the recent figures are about 4%
• 10:33
  of women in the US. What?
• 10:34
  We're going to do about that. We just want to keep talking,
• 10:38
  you know? Like the IT went down because of
• 10:40
  that report, so we need a different type of report.
• 10:43
  Well, The thing is now this is interesting because this was the
• 10:46
  only randomised control study and a lot of people say you have
• 10:50
  to have randomised control studies in medicine.
• 10:52
  So that means you divide the group into two.
• 10:55
  You don't know who's having what.
• 10:57
  Half have the real drug and half have placebo.
• 10:59
  And then you see the difference. And that's what they did in that
• 11:01
  study because they knew HRT was good for women, but they started
• 11:05
  to give it women who are older to the average age and the body
• 11:08
  was 63. But a lot of those women had had
• 11:11
  heart disease, they were overweight and that had raised
• 11:14
  blood pressure. And they gave them the synthetic
• 11:16
  hormones that we know has risks with it.
• 11:18
  So it was like the wrong type of HLT, the wrong study.
• 11:21
  So now if you did a randomised control study with natural
• 11:25
  hormones, it's not actually ethical because we know there
• 11:28
  are more benefits and risks with natural hormones.
• 11:31
  We know they reduce incidence of heart disease and osteoporosis,
• 11:34
  for example, and improved symptoms.
• 11:37
  So, you know, if I was menopausal and not taking
• 11:39
  hormones, I wouldn't want to go into a study because I'd want my
• 11:42
  hormones. Do you see what I mean?
• 11:44
  And I wouldn't want to risk because if I went on placebo, I
• 11:46
  couldn't work as a doctor. I couldn't be happy marriage.
• 11:49
  Can they do the test on women that I'm taking it?
• 11:52
  Yeah, so, so then, but then what they have done all?
• 11:55
  Those women that that are afraid to that are scared to that the
• 12:00
  the women that go to the doctors that refuse to give them, can't
• 12:02
  they sign up? Yeah, but then it's still hard
• 12:05
  because then as a doctor, you know, I'm really clear to women
• 12:08
  that there are risks of not taking hormones.
• 12:11
  So there are risks for your future health as well.
• 12:14
  So, but not every study has to be a randomised control study.
• 12:17
  When they discovered that penicillin, you know, antibiotic
• 12:20
  was, was good, they didn't say, oh, we're only going to give it
• 12:23
  as a randomised control study because it was good.
• 12:25
  So you can do observational data.
• 12:28
  But the other thing is we know how the hormones work in our
• 12:30
  body. Like we've known that for
• 12:32
  decades. So we know they reduce
• 12:34
  inflammation, we know they get produced enough in our brain.
• 12:37
  They know, we know that for many years we've known that women who
• 12:40
  have hormones have less depression and less mental
• 12:43
  health issues. So we just need to join the dots
• 12:46
  really and and then allow women to choose.
• 12:48
  It's a bit like saying to you, exercise is good for you, but
• 12:52
  you can choose whether you exercise or not.
• 12:55
  You know what I mean? And it's the same with hormones.
• 12:56
  You can choose whether you take them.
• 12:58
  But I think the saddest thing of all of this, Penny, is that
• 13:01
  women are just not even the choice.
• 13:02
  You know the number of women I meet who are on antidepressants
• 13:06
  compared to hormones, you know? Well, I mean, I get women coming
• 13:09
  up to me on the school gates or at the Pilates classes and
• 13:13
  things like that asking me, you know, so what's going on?
• 13:16
  What's, what's the latest? I'm thinking of taking, but I'm
• 13:20
  not sure. I'm like, why aren't you sure?
• 13:23
  What is it that where's the stumbling block?
• 13:25
  And they still have that little niggly.
• 13:28
  It might not be good for me. There might be a side effect.
• 13:30
  I said why? Why should there be?
• 13:33
  You've had these hormones in your body your entire life.
• 13:35
  It's the same thing. It's not a foreign object that
• 13:38
  your immune system's suddenly going to react to.
• 13:41
  I mean, I've, I've had an undirected thyroid gland, so
• 13:44
  I've required, which is another hormone, thyroxine.
• 13:47
  We have required that since I was 21.
• 13:49
  So I hated the idea at that age, taking a tablet.
• 13:53
  But like the doctor said, we won't survive.
• 13:55
  Yeah, yeah. And it's exactly the same.
• 13:57
  It's just another hormone. But the problem is when they
• 14:00
  were discovered, they were commercialized because people
• 14:03
  wanted to make money. They always wanted to make money
• 14:05
  out of drugs. So they changed the chemical
• 14:07
  structure. So with your thyroxine, you take
• 14:10
  levothyroxine, which will be exactly the same as the
• 14:13
  thyroxine that I make naturally for my thyroid.
• 14:15
  With the HRT you take estadiol, which is a natural form.
• 14:20
  In the olden days they used to use a synthetic hormone which
• 14:24
  was either made synthetically, like in all the contraceptives,
• 14:28
  or they used to get it from pregnant horses.
• 14:30
  Urine. I know.
• 14:32
  Which is awful, isn't it? Yeah.
• 14:33
  So that was when a lot of the studies were done.
• 14:35
  So it contains estadiol, but it also contains all sorts.
• 14:38
  Of oh I. Know, but the drug company
• 14:42
  painted it so if you've got a patent for that drug, you don't
• 14:45
  tell anyone else your formulary. So they wouldn't tell other
• 14:48
  people what was in that magic urine.
• 14:51
  As long as it's got what you're saying it hasn't, you forget.
• 14:53
  About the rest, yeah. So once you realise that it's
• 14:56
  completely different, you know, because you want to replace like
• 14:59
  with like, and that's all we're doing.
• 15:01
  But what's really interesting, I think, is that people take
• 15:03
  contraception pretty easily because obviously it works as
• 15:07
  contraceptive, but it's synthetic, so it has far more
• 15:10
  risks than taking natural hormones.
• 15:13
  But you suddenly say to someone HRT and they're thinking, oh,
• 15:16
  I'm not sure. As our hormones change
• 15:20
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• 15:23
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  So have a look and subscribe and enjoy.
• 16:47
  Because of course, that's all you ever taught about at school.
• 16:50
  You're never you're not taught about the menopause.
• 16:55
  No, you're not taught about how to get pregnant.
• 16:59
  Yeah, it's just taught about how not to get.
• 17:02
  Pregnant, I know. Bees and the birds you boys,
• 17:06
  girls like protect yourself from diseases, protect yourself at
• 17:10
  getting pregnant. This is how you don't get
• 17:12
  pregnant. This is how you don't get
• 17:13
  pregnant. And, and the whole thing of
• 17:17
  like, you know, I've tried to explain, well, like the boys
• 17:20
  understand what menopause is now of course, because they saw
• 17:23
  Mummy go through hell with it. And then I, you know, I needed
• 17:26
  to explain to them what was wrong.
• 17:28
  And I'm OK now because I've got my home replacement.
• 17:31
  I remember I was in the boys bathroom and I heard Aidan who
• 17:35
  was probably about 13, it was like a year ago and I heard him
• 17:39
  chatting some of his friends from the lads.
• 17:42
  There was about four of them and they were going, oh, what?
• 17:46
  What was, what was Miss doing today?
• 17:48
  Like, God, dear, she was so snappy and miserable and this
• 17:53
  and that and I'm listening, going.
• 17:56
  They were chatting away and it seemed like it was an unusual
• 18:00
  behavioural pattern for her. Anyway.
• 18:03
  So I put my head in and I said, boys, how old do you think this
• 18:06
  teacher is? Oh, I don't know, maybe a little
• 18:08
  bit younger than you, Mum. I went, oh, OK, so Aiden, you've
• 18:13
  heard this from me, but but maybe you could consider that
• 18:17
  she might be going through her menopause, you know, like mummy
• 18:21
  had a lot of trouble. And, you know, you cry more
• 18:24
  easily. You, you get, you have less
• 18:27
  patience and you get anxious and all of those things.
• 18:29
  So Can you imagine the stress a teacher's under and she's
• 18:32
  feeling that way because of the lack of hormones?
• 18:35
  And The thing is that they teach you boys So what happens in
• 18:39
  puberty and how girls begin their periods.
• 18:44
  But that's just the beginning of that fertility cycle, because at
• 18:49
  the very end, the full circle, is when those periods stop.
• 18:54
  So you get a rush of the hormones, which ignites the body
• 18:59
  and turns a girl into a woman and her periods begin.
• 19:04
  But why don't they finish the conversation and say, look, your
• 19:07
  mums or your aunties or your grandma or someone else might be
• 19:11
  at the other end of their fertility and the opposite
• 19:13
  happens. The hormones start disappearing.
• 19:16
  So just I said, boys, look at the the girls of your age.
• 19:20
  You might say, oh, of course she was a bit snappy or she wasn't
• 19:24
  very nice today, was she? Or why was she ran off crying?
• 19:27
  And because it's explained that it's hormones, the same with you
• 19:31
  boys, whether you get testosterone, you can get angry
• 19:33
  and all those things, but they're not explaining no the
• 19:36
  other end. So surely there has to be a part
• 19:39
  of that whole journey. Absolutely.
• 19:42
  And it's interesting because I've got three daughters and you
• 19:44
  know, a lot of them recognise it in their friends mothers, yes,
• 19:48
  all their teachers. You know, my 14 year old couple
• 19:52
  of years ago at one of her schools, she said, oh mummy, the
• 19:54
  maths teacher. So obviously, you know, she had
• 19:56
  a, she kept opening the window and there were times when she
• 19:59
  was really, and it's a real. Struggle embarrassed about it
• 20:02
  and the the thing that you know the kids are going to eagle what
• 20:05
  have you, but if you just be like look, this is what it is.
• 20:07
  You know I remember Aiden he he used to go hang on mummy.
• 20:11
  Wait a minute. I need to open a door and you
• 20:13
  know waff the door back and forth and back and forth to try
• 20:16
  and call me down like he was you know it was just it's it's that
• 20:19
  taking the stigma and the shame away from it and just go look
• 20:22
  this is part of life cycle just same with you kids going through
• 20:26
  your puberty. This is what adults of my age go
• 20:29
  through, so we're colour on the same page.
• 20:32
  I get what you're going through and I'd like you to be able to
• 20:34
  understand that what I'm going through and then how many kids
• 20:37
  can go home, like you said to their parents that aren't
• 20:39
  educated on it to go dad, I think maybe you should chat to
• 20:43
  mum, maybe that you know, like to have.
• 20:45
  The conversation having the. Conversation men into the
• 20:48
  conversation. So important.
• 20:50
  And actually I was in Glasgow, I did an event at the theatre.
• 20:54
  I got an e-mail today from one of the few men that were in the
• 20:56
  audience. There were only three men in the
• 20:57
  audience and he was ex army and he said I'm writing to thank you
• 21:01
  for everything that you do. But he was, he'd come with his
• 21:04
  wife and he said, you know, if I hadn't, I've been aware of your
• 21:08
  work, I wouldn't have been able to help my wife.
• 21:10
  And now she's taking hormones and you know, a whole
• 21:13
  relationship, everything is completely different.
• 21:15
  But actually, sometimes you need someone else to advocate for
• 21:18
  you, not just to recognise the symptoms, but to say, come on,
• 21:21
  I'll come with you to that doctor or I'll make that
• 21:23
  appointment with you. Yes, don't take those
• 21:25
  antidepressants. If that that's not right for
• 21:27
  you, then think about hormones, because it's the second part of
• 21:30
  the conversation that's missing so often, isn't it?
• 21:33
  Well, I mean the idea that there have 50% are going through the
• 21:38
  menopause, but actually the other 50% the men are going
• 21:42
  through it with us, they're. Standing.
• 21:44
  Right by our sides scratching their heads and they're
• 21:46
  panicking. And then of course, it and it
• 21:48
  can very easily end in marriage breaks down.
• 21:51
  And then of course, like we're still, as you mentioned,
• 21:54
  suicidal thoughts. But I remember my eldest son
• 21:58
  Alastair, he, he was saying Mama was, was at the side of the
• 22:01
  football pitch this Sunday morning and one of the dads came
• 22:05
  over to me and said can you thank your mum because I know
• 22:08
  what my wifes going through now. That's nice, isn't it?
• 22:11
  Like yeah, but it's. Sort of a football pitch.
• 22:13
  Yeah. Where it's like all tough and
• 22:15
  mud and, you know, grits swearing and all that.
• 22:18
  And they're talking about menopause.
• 22:20
  And at my police station in the city, I had one of the one of
• 22:24
  the mail officers come up to me and say the same thing.
• 22:27
  Thank you so much. Talking about it now.
• 22:28
  I understand. And I was on one duty where we
• 22:31
  all have to look smart, be smart.
• 22:34
  So they have to wear the same uniform.
• 22:37
  Yes. Primarily we have the same
• 22:38
  uniform, but we have different types of styles of jackets
• 22:41
  depending on the weather. And it was a long duty, so we
• 22:44
  were trying to gauge the weather and decide what for uniform
• 22:48
  we're all going to be in. And they decided on the heavy
• 22:51
  coat. So I thought, I don't know
• 22:55
  whether to bring this up, but quietly, not in front of
• 22:57
  everyone. I went over to the one of the
• 22:59
  sergeants and I said, look, I, I don't know.
• 23:02
  I don't want to be treated any differently.
• 23:04
  I, I, you know, I, I don't want you to, I just want you to
• 23:07
  understand that I'm going through a menopause.
• 23:10
  You went, you don't need to go any further.
• 23:12
  Do you want to wear the lighter jacket?
• 23:13
  That's nice. Well.
• 23:15
  You think I can do that? Yes, of course you can.
• 23:17
  Oh, thank you, he said. No, we set up a whole menopause
• 23:20
  thing and we haven't. I was like.
• 23:21
  Whoa, that's really nice. Isn't it a male dominated place
• 23:24
  like that? So it's it's getting there, it's
• 23:28
  just slowly. And I think if we don't continue
• 23:31
  talking about it, it will just drop off like you say, and
• 23:34
  there'll be another generation. The next women coming up that
• 23:38
  radio. Recently.
• 23:39
  And then they dropped me and said, oh, we've spoken enough
• 23:42
  about the menopause. It's like really, no, you
• 23:45
  haven't. I will only stop talking about
• 23:47
  it when everyone who wants to take hormones is on them because
• 23:50
  it's this 14% isn't because only 14% of women want them.
• 23:54
  It's really not. You know, everyday I'm speaking
• 23:57
  to women who really can't access hormones because they're not
• 24:01
  seeing a Doctor Who's been educated and it's really wrong.
• 24:04
  So the more that everyone works in different ways, then it
• 24:08
  amplifies the messages doesn't. It absolutely.
• 24:10
  I mean, I'm thinking of that those health checks that women
• 24:14
  get with their GPS and the information that's kind of given
• 24:18
  to them at the right stage. Same with fertility.
• 24:21
  I have a girlfriend who, you know, it's like very career
• 24:24
  focused and very intelligent girl and but she's 35 and now
• 24:29
  she's like babies. And once again, like she's, I
• 24:34
  only remember being told how not to get pregnant.
• 24:37
  And now I want thinking about babies, but maybe I've left it
• 24:40
  too late. And, you know, we'll go to
• 24:43
  doctor and like, but go with a list, you know, they want to be
• 24:47
  able to see a pattern of like, when did you have your last
• 24:49
  period? Are there your periods regular,
• 24:54
  how many? You know, like you've got to
• 24:55
  write a list of all these things.
• 24:57
  The same with the menopause. Go in with a list of of your
• 25:00
  symptoms and how often you have these symptoms.
• 25:02
  And there is a particular time in a month you feel worse and
• 25:05
  you know, you have to go with, you know, armed with.
• 25:09
  Material difference, that's one of the reasons that I created
• 25:11
  Balance app, you know the free app because it's got all the
• 25:14
  symptoms there. People can then create a health
• 25:16
  report and go and say, look, these are my symptoms.
• 25:19
  And actually for me as the doctor, everyone does it who
• 25:21
  comes to the clinic and it means you can look very quickly.
• 25:24
  And you can. Oh.
• 25:26
  Yes. And then sometimes people say,
• 25:27
  oh, I haven't got many symptoms. I look at their list and I say,
• 25:30
  well, what about your vaginal dryness?
• 25:32
  So what about your joint pain? Oh, Oh yeah, I forgot about
• 25:34
  that. And then the whole conversation
• 25:36
  starts then. Because it's that you go, go
• 25:38
  away afterwards and you go, oh, I forgot to mention this, forgot
• 25:41
  to mention that. Oh yeah.
• 25:42
  Oh gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:44
  So. So tell me about your book.
• 25:47
  It's amazing that you've written such a long book.
• 25:50
  It's so brilliant. It's so easy to read.
• 25:52
  Yeah, I know. We're having dyslexia and
• 25:55
  writing and like you say, reading it.
• 25:58
  Out, yeah, which was particularly challenging.
• 26:01
  I call it someone like me because yes, it's a story about
• 26:03
  me, but it's also a story that so many other women, men even
• 26:11
  have gone through A lot of the experiences that I've gone
• 26:13
  through, whether it's bullying, whether it's dyslexia, whether
• 26:17
  it's been a victim of crime, pregnancy, fertility, IVF,
• 26:24
  menopause, you know, all of those things.
• 26:26
  So, yeah, it's, it's the journey from, from my childhood.
• 26:32
  And by writing it, I've dug really deep into detail about
• 26:36
  the events that have gone through in my life, some of them
• 26:40
  traumatic, but it's amazing how I've realized that I've gained
• 26:45
  skills. You know, just when you think
• 26:48
  you're in the worst place, you don't think there's any positive
• 26:51
  from from that you can get from that.
• 26:53
  Actually, you turn another page and another chapter and before
• 26:57
  you know it, you you, you know the, the other experience you,
• 27:00
  you have later in adulthood, you maybe wouldn't have been out to
• 27:03
  get through had you not gone through those things as a child.
• 27:06
  I totally agree with that and sometimes that very dark times
• 27:10
  there comes like this, but you don't know it at the time or
• 27:13
  resilience or strength. You can't be strong if you've
• 27:15
  not been pushed over before. And so there's I think also
• 27:20
  people. It's so easy to look at you, you
• 27:22
  know, look at you, you're married to Rod, you've got
• 27:24
  everything you like, you've got a lovely family.
• 27:26
  But it's not always been easy. And I think for somebody to just
• 27:29
  share their back story takes quite a lot of courage actually.
• 27:33
  But it helps people resonate, doesn't it?
• 27:35
  It does. It helps people resonate,
• 27:37
  connect with you and know that well if she's been able to make
• 27:42
  this of herself. You know, when I was told that I
• 27:44
  wouldn't make anything of myself when I was at school, a teacher
• 27:47
  once told my father. And so I never thought I was
• 27:51
  ever going to be good at anything.
• 27:54
  And but then when I met Rod, he, you know, much older than me,
• 27:59
  they had a bit more life experience and he recognised
• 28:03
  side of me that I hadn't seen. And he said, you're great at
• 28:07
  this. You've got, you're so good at
• 28:09
  communicating and your, your, your thoughts and you're great
• 28:12
  with the kids and you've got this empathy and understanding.
• 28:16
  And you see, always see things from other people's perspective.
• 28:19
  And you can use that and channel that.
• 28:21
  And, and I was like, didn't think of those as talents or
• 28:25
  skills. But of course, in policing,
• 28:27
  it's. Massive, yeah.
• 28:29
  So it's, yeah, I've really sort of tapped into things and like
• 28:32
  bullying and realising, of course, this bullies in
• 28:35
  adulthood in the workplace. And you come across those and
• 28:39
  I've learned to recognise it and I've learnt to rise above it.
• 28:42
  And do you know, de escalate is my key thing.
• 28:46
  And, you know, in the end of the day, karma will come round.
• 28:49
  But if you just just keep giving kindness and love and take care
• 28:56
  of yourself, there's no need to attack, just defend yourself.
• 29:00
  Takes a lot of a lot of bravery and courage to do that actually.
• 29:04
  But also patience. Patience but also a lot of
• 29:08
  kindness. Because the more I think about
• 29:10
  bullies, I realise they're not kind and they're probably not
• 29:13
  happy. They're not happy, but that's.
• 29:15
  The key my fault they're not happy or your fault they're not
• 29:17
  happy and I don't think anything that what we can do as victims,
• 29:22
  we'll make them happy actually well.
• 29:24
  If you if you show suffering, it's kind of given them.
• 29:27
  They're winning, aren't they? They're winning, yeah.
• 29:29
  So as hard as it is to suffer quietly somewhere else, you
• 29:33
  know, but of course, express it to your loved ones.
• 29:37
  And, you know, obviously as kids, it's not, it's not a
• 29:41
  conversation you can have with those bullies.
• 29:43
  But they will recognise it in themselves and they know they're
• 29:45
  doing wrong ultimately. And more often than not, you
• 29:51
  find them in groups. It's only as the, the true, the
• 29:55
  centre of that group, maybe the true bully that's instigated, it
• 29:59
  will end up continuing to have that pattern because their needs
• 30:03
  haven't been met and they become that that adult bully when
• 30:08
  they're older. But yeah, a camera does come and
• 30:11
  get you. I think in the end I.
• 30:12
  Think it does, but it can take a while and it sometimes it's
• 30:16
  really different. People can.
• 30:17
  Stuff that long as well. Yeah, I think so, people.
• 30:21
  Do need to be called out and I think more and more is being
• 30:23
  done in the workplace to kind of not suffer people in in a
• 30:30
  powerful position allowing people to get away with stuff
• 30:33
  these days. I think, I think it's important
• 30:35
  and you know, there's so many different types of bullying and
• 30:38
  even, you know, I employ a lot of doctors and most of us have
• 30:41
  worked in quite difficult circumstances and being unable
• 30:45
  to speak out because these people are our bosses or they're
• 30:48
  going to give us our references or whatever.
• 30:50
  And it's, it's no different in medicine to other professions.
• 30:53
  But, but I think also the most important thing is having a good
• 30:55
  network of people around you, people that you can trust and
• 30:58
  make you feel good. And you know, your family
• 31:01
  certainly do that, don't they? Family, my friends and happy and
• 31:05
  yeah, I'm very lucky in that respect.
• 31:07
  Very lucky. Yeah, so, oh, I'm just so
• 31:10
  grateful that you're so open. But before we end, I always ask
• 31:12
  for three take home tips and I am just going to ask three
• 31:15
  really simple questions. Three things why people should
• 31:17
  buy this book. Someone like me is is an
• 31:21
  expression of hope and gratitude and I, I've already had so much
• 31:29
  positive reaction from people and I hope it just resonates and
• 31:35
  gives guidance and makes people feel like they're not alone.
• 31:39
  And I think it's kind of touches people in different ways, but
• 31:43
  it's been good for me and I hope it's good for others.
• 31:46
  Yeah, well, you've already had such great feedback.
• 31:48
  Of course it is. And just thank you so much for
• 31:50
  all your energy and love. Thank.
• 31:52
  You. Thank you very much, Louise.
• 31:53
  Cheers.