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SMNTY Classics: SMNTY Sets Some Boundaries · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I want my stuff. I never told you a protection
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: of Iyheart Radio. Today we are bringing back a classic
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: on boundaries. I think since we did this episode, we've
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: had a lot of other conversations around boundaries. I've talked
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: to some about my struggles around knowing the healthy boundary,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: and I'm still dealing with that. But when it comes
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: to holidays and now we're in the new year, I
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: feel like it's something that I've been thinking about a
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: lot because I'm just hanging out more than I normally do,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: which is good. It's all been great, but it's been
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: a question on my mind of like, do you really
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: want to do this? And then I get I feel
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: bad about asking myself if I really want to do it,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: even though I shouldn't. But this question of setting healthy
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: boundaries is one I've been thinking out thinking about in
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: the new year.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Because I cannot quite remember. I can't do dates, y'all really, well,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: was this pre COVID pandemic or a COVID shutdown?
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I don't I think this was after.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, because I just remember we had a conversation about
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: you trying to say no yes, and it was about
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: setting boundaries and learning to say no. So I'm trying
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: to remember if that was that one.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I'm excited. Let's go, Yes, Please enjoy this classic episode.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Steffan never told you prodection of iHeartRadio.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Okay, Annie, for today's episode, I have a pretty big
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: generic question, but you know, we'll see how well you do.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: So on average, how often do you think you've actually
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: said no or declined a request in your adult life?
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: On average?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: On average?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I think it's shifted recently because of the pandemic, but
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: before that.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Not often been at all.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: And even now, like during the pandemic, I'm still pretty bad.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: But I have gotten better because I have a pretty
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: good reason, right. I had a friend, a good friend
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: of ours, once told me like, you don't have to
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: even respond because a non response equals no, And I
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: was like, but that's so rude.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: So I can't even do that. I have to say
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: yes or no.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Oh that's my go to is just to not respond.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Not now, I know, I'd like.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: I'm not there. I'm like I don't know, I don't
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: know what's happening. Oh no, And then like.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: The next day you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. If I if I know you all
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: love and I can say no to you, like if
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: you can handle a note, then I say no. But
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: if you people, I've had people who like pressure me
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: and talk you into it and won't take that, so
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: I just don't respond sometimes.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if I say no, and then you're you trying
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: to convince me now during the pandemic, I will say,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: then I just won't respond anymore. Right, But before then
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I could be convinced. I could be pretty easily convinced.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know what, You're not the only one.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: And we're going to talk a little bit about all
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: of that, including the fact that we do need to
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: perspect other people's nos, which is sometimes hard for me.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: I'm one of those people like I really feel like
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: I can't read sometimes whether you're saying no just because
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: you feel like you can't do it versus you actually
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: don't want to do it like that, those are the
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: trade differences. But you know, with all the everyday stress,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: there's been a lot thrown at us recently, and it
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: seems like so much, so much in the past few years,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: and for some of us we have really grown into
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: setting some boundaries again, like I just may not respond
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: to you, and you have done really well because you've
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: decided that you actually like your alone time, maybe a
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: little too much sometimes, But for others it's actually gotten worse,
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: especially when it comes to people trying to change the
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: state of the world. There's been so much that's happening,
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: and there's been so much honestly just scary moments where
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: we're like everything's about to be the worst. So to
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: that end, we feel like we have to do even
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: more and definitely can't slow down. But there's no denying
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: setting of boundaries is at an actual talent, and there's
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: some who are really good at it and then some
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: who are not, yeah, and who are still learning. Right,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: And of course we had to take a minute and
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: research if there was a difference based on gender. And
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: again so just to note a lot of the studies,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: though some more recent, are typically done from a cis
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: hetero perspective, so it's not as intersectional when it comes
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: to like the queer community or any of that. So again,
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: we would like, we would like that to be not
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: so much the case, but unfortunately we can't always get that.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: But again, this is information that is good to know
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: on a personal level, and we are going to hit
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: that intersectional marks we are going to talk about when
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: it comes to the bipop community as well, But just
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: for the perspective, this is on a very personal level,
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: so very individualistic, I.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Guess, yeah, yeah, And I know we're going to discuss
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: this later, but I feel like this is one of
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: those topics that often gets wrapped up in sort of
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: the like catchy, very heteronormative magazine titles that are like.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Here's how you set boundaries with your men?
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: Yes, And there's so many of those, Like we had
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: to we through all of the Cosmo articles, which is
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with that if they are evidence based,
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: you do you, but you know to the point that, like,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: this is not what we're looking at necessarily to better
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: set boundaries to catch a man, right, right.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, A lot to say about that, but we better
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: get in this verse, all right, and let's get started
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: with the definition. According to Miriam Webster, boundaries are defined
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: as something that indicates or fixes a limit or extent.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: But a better definition of what we're talking about is
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: boundaries as quote an expression of inner authority. And that's
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: according to Bethanywebster dot com, and it continues saying boundaries
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: are a function of how much you are in tune
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: with yourself, how much you value yourself, and where and
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: with whom you choose to invest your energy. Boundaries are
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: often a battle people choose to not take on easier
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: to please people rather than dealing with the conflict of
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: saying no. Or it could be what author doctor Kristen
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Lee of Psychology Today writes, quote, it signifies a deeper
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: value set. If you're the type that always wants to
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: be there for people you care about, it's because you
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: value relationships. If you're the one at work who says
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: yes to every project, it reflects how much you value learning.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: But when we only say yes, we might be missing
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: chances to invest your time and energy in ways that
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: help us take or values and goals to new levels.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: And it can affect women and those in marginalized communities differently.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Right, And we're gonna talk a little bit about that
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: in a minute, But first, here's some reasons why people
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: may not stick to boundaries, and it includes perfectionism kind
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: of what we're talking about not wanting to let anyone
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: down or wanting to be seen as the person who
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: can do everything in anything, And yes, I don't want
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: people to see me being weak. So therefore I'm like, yeah,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: of course I know how to do that. What what
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: does that mean?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Just then there's fomo, or the fear of missing out.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Don't want to be left out or if you miss
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: something or you get excluded the next time around, which
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: was a big fear as an introvert. I'm like, oh, no,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: I don't want to go out, but they're gonna not
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: invite me anymore. That's even worse. But on top of yes,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: there I have friends who absolutely will not say no
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: because they're afraid they're going to miss out on something
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: significant and then they're going to miss out on the
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: converse later to come. So you do do you have fomo?
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: I do have fomo. I think we've talked about this before.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I have both fomo. But also like I'm I'm a
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: queen at avoidance and going out or doing something is
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: the best way for me, not in a good way,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: not in a healthy way, but the best way for
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: me to continue my unhealthy habit.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Of avoiding whatever it is.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Right, So they kind of both come together in a
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: real unnatural way.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: It's not good.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Yes, I know a lot of people who do that
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: because being alone means you have to think about things. Yeah,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: maybe it's based on your personality. You know what I'm
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: talking about. Are you an INFJ, Well, maybe you have
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: a hard time in settling a limits or if you're
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: an I NFP, you are the example we need to
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: look toward as someone who does who is good at
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: setting boundaries and if they try to force you into something,
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: you're like, nah, I'm good, I'm good. So there's this
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: whole article if you want to go look at it.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: It's at personalitygrowth dot com titled how each personality type
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: handles boundaries and yeah, if you want to know and
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: if you know your Myers Briggs personality type, this may
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: tell you what kind of boundaries or lack of boundaries
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: you have, just so you know or perhaps not being
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: able to differentiate between the emotion of saying no because
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: you feel like you're rejecting someone or turning someone down
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: or they're rejecting you, and the rationality of knowing your limits.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: So aka, you're the people pleaser. The same kind of
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: perspective of being the perfectionist. But you are scared to
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: tell them no because that means they feel rejected, and you,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: of course have to spare their feelings, and you can't
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: say no, and say no means it hurts their feelings,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: which is not typically true, although sometimes people do feel
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: that way. Because I feel like that a lot, because
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: I have a fear of rejection. That's a whole different conversation.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Of course, there could be more than just these reasons
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: in there are, but we just wanted to give kind
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: of a few examples of why this could be a problem.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: But let's talk about the deeper meanings.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: According to one Setty, when it comes to setting boundaries,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: oftentimes those who are perceived as less powerful have a
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: harder time in setting them. In a twenty nineteen article
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: in The Swaddle titled how Society makes it Difficult for
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: women at minorities to set emotional boundaries, Sadaf Venda talks
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: about the difficulties of women in marginalized communities saying no.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: They write setting boundaries as to where the self ends
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: and where other people begin. Navigating relationships with this bounce
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: in mind and saying no when necessary is a difficult task,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: especially for women and people from marginalized communities. They continue
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: on about the difference due to culture, gender, and societal
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: expectations and how these differences can lead to different levels
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: of philosophy when it comes to individualism and collectivism, and
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: how that can impact a person's boundaries. For example, when
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: it comes to family, different cultures would dictate absolute loyalty
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: to the detriment of an individual and would have a
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: harder time in setting limits because of that.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Right and related to that is a concept known as
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: quote differentiation of self, which was originated by family therapist
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: Murray Bowen. It is described as a quote. A level
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: of the differentiation of self refers to the degree to
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: which a person can think and act for self while
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: in contact with emotionally charged issues. It also refers to
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: the degree which a person can discern between thoughts and feelings,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: kind of like how we were talking about the people pleaser.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: At higher levels of differentiation, people maintain separate solid cells
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: under considerable stress and anxiety, They manage their own reactivity
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: and choose thoughtful actions. At lower levels of differentiation, people
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: depend on others to function, and they develop significant symptoms
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: under stress. They act often destructfully based on anxious reactions
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: to the environment. Their intellectual reasonings uses with emotionality. Even
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: highly intelligent people can be poorly differentiated. So what they
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: are talking about is this level of having the emotions
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: being disconnected to the reality. And we know that women
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: kind of have been targeted that way, being told you
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: are the nurture, the caregiver, so you should care and
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: you should feel these ways. And we also know that
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: men are told don't that is not mainly feeling feelings
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: is not good. So it kind of has this abuse
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: of power, and this differentiation can really impact how you
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: set those boundaries. And for women, well, again it's complicated.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Doctor Tamika Let explains in one article in the Zoe
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: report dot com quote, in my opinion, when women say
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: quote I need help or I need a break, we
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: are viewed as a weak or not as competent as
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: our male counterparts despite not taking care of ourselves, which
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: can result in mental health issues such as anxiety or depression.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Women are also seen as liabilities, and again we know
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: the implications of being seen as vulnerable. This is a
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: feminine quality and this is kind of how it's attributed
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: to weaknesses, especially when it comes to positions of authority. Again,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: this whole level of that nurture nature, the gendered ideas
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: of emotions and why that is so harmful at youth. Again,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: this impacts how we set boundaries and whether or not
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: we can set those boundaries.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And I think the socialization aspect is very very important.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: And I know for me, like, because of some of
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: the trauma in my past, I don't even if I
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: want to say no, I don't say it at first, right,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: because it's the safety. It feels like, oh, my city,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: he's going to get mad, especially as a man involved, right.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: He's going to get to talk about yeah.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: And so for me, like this kind of almost separation
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: of emotions. It's like I feel the emotion and then
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: I shut it down and just say like O hey, yeah,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: like bubbly bubbly, yes, right.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: And then later I'm like, oh god no.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: And honestly, we're going to talk later on about how
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: to set boundaries. But so many of these articles that
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: are referring to women trying to set boundaries teach them
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: how to do it kindly because it is dangerous. But
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: again we'll come back to that.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, all right.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Therapist Emily Party weighs in on the same article, saying
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: boundary setting phrases like those mentioned above can also sometimes
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: be interpreted as anti feminist. In a society where women
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: have fought so hard to gain equality and opportunity, it
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: can be seen as a step in the wrong direction
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: when a woman acknowledges healthy boundaries and limitations. It's ironic, truly,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: when the most feminist thing you can do is know
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: yourself well and stand up for your knees, which feels
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: like a damned if you do and damned if you
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: don't situation. And also, yeah, like we talked about in
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Glennon Doyle's book, that whole idea that women have been
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: taught like selflessness is such a good thing, like that's
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: a value. Yeah, setting your boundaries feels like being selfish.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: Right right, and being able to say no is such
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: a power trip. So therefore again not female enough or
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: feminine enough, and so therefore all these things. But then
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: again she say that it can also look like it's
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: anti feminist, not taking on everything to show that you
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: can take on everything, which is ironic in itself.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: So now we're going to talk about masculinity and boundaries
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: because This whole thing could be translated as a perception
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: of power or supremacy and how it plays in setting boundaries.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And yes, boundaries are harder to set for those who
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: are more likely to be oppressed and marginalized, As Vidha says,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: and I apologize because I think I added a superfluous
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: in my pronunciation earlier, and I hope I'm not butchering
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: it in either case anyway, they say. Those who have
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: more power in society, like men, build a lot of
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: un written rules around themselves, and their time is often
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: treated as a privilege. These powerful sections also ensure that
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: the time and effort of others is seen as disposable,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: and thus this means these oppressed sections end up doing
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: more of the work and having hardly any emotional and
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: personal boundaries. And what happens when privilege is rejected or
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: limited They push back. As the Bethanywebster dot Com article rites,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: male fragility has played a role and that women quote
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: have been conditioned to view our needs for boundaries with distrust.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Having boundaries, saying no and setting one's own limits has
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: long been associated with being difficult, uppity, or a bitch.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Women who set boundaries have been characterized as being ugly.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Femin Nazis are man hating and have been threatened with
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: violence and death right.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: And of course there is an actual other side to this.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Before we move on, though, we do want to talk
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: about the fact that, yes, this becomes dangerous and we've
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: talked about this so often that when we put limits
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: in saying I'm not interested and we get pushed back
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: on there is a dangerous precedent. What can we do
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: to make sure that we don't get to that place,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: and that is oftentimes make up an excuse, try to
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: be kind, all of those things and try to get
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: out of the situation, because when we do set up boundaries,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: especially like in the dating world, it becomes a challenge. Yeah,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: And on that other side, we're gonna talk about the
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: nice guys as in fact, we stumbled upon some articles
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: about how nice guys are asking how to set boundaries
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: with quote flirty women and when I say flirty, this
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: is in a negative connotation. And y'all, we watched these
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: advice videos so you didn't have to and you shouldn't.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: And it includes teaching men to put limits in boundaries
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: with quote firmness and through grounding and according to one video,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: this is the idea of taking from the bottom half
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: of yourself. And I'm assuming he's talking literally because he
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: talks about don't take it from the trust, pick from
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: bottom and I was like, what, maybe talking about his feet.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with that and really being planted or
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: fill yourself being planted, and not quote overreact because if
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: a nice guy overreacts, women will continue to quote poke adam,
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: which was the phrase. I was really like, what to
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: get a reaction and continually test those boundaries. Now it
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: may sound like we're being sarcastic the language of this
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: video and articles, especially when it comes to the pickup
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: artists who use this keith reinforcing the idea that women
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: are mere property to conquer. Some of the videos we see,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: I think we're on religious based sites, so talking about
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: being a man and fearlessly conquering your fears, all of
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: these things. It was interesting and they do talk about
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: why they may be rejected a little bit. And this
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: article that popped up was specifically to the idea of
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: how to deal with women who are degrading towards men
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: or when flirting. I will say again this article did
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: try to differentiate with the person who was asking the
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: question on whether he was upset about being rejected or
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: the woman was actually being degrading, So at least he
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: questions this. But let's be honest, when it comes to
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: these conversations, they continue to place a woman at a
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: level of being a prize instead of being a human.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: So it doesn't really have the connotation that this is
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: a conversation with another person, but about how to kind
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: of control them in this narrative, or control the narrative
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: in itself. But there is a whole other point to
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: these types of articles of misogyny in itself teaches men
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: that setting boundaries, respecting boundaries are a part of a
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: power play. Respecting boundaries is not manly, and that women
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: want manly men, of course, and that only men can
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: set these boundaries because once again it's based on privilege
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: and power. When we see it in this context, we
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: know not all men. Okay, we know, but the fact
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: teachings like this are still prevalent. We can't underestimate the
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: level of the need for perceived masculinity, and to do
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: so can be detrimental for all of the marginalized community.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: And this is why we continue to talk about it
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: and why we yeah, are somewhat dismissive of the not
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: all men because it just takes one man. It just
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: takes that one time for us to underestimate what these
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: conversations can push.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: To Yeah yeah, And continuing the conversation of power and
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: privilege and boundaries, there are many examples of why women
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: continue to be unable to set limits and boundaries. One
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: of the biggest examples is the backlash of saying no.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: As we talked about earlier, just by rejecting someone, a
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: woman maybe putting themselves in danger, and many have learned
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: throughout their lives our self worth is based on the
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: way we can sacrifice ourselves, meaning in order to show
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: our value, we have to give up ourselves, our happiness
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: for the betterment of others. Another great quote, we learned
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: to unconsciously and automatically oppress ourselves and other women as
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: a means of survival. We had to self fragment, disabling
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: our own connection with ourselves to some degree and prioritizing
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: external approval in a world that favors rich white men
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: over everybody else.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Right and Daniel Litl Daeper When it comes to the
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: bipod community, the dangers in past trauma is even greater.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Black women have been on the outskirts throughout the centuries
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: when it comes to having their boundaries respected, but have
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: been the ones to fight the hardest to establish it
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: for the sake of the entire community. When the term
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: intersectionality was coined by Kimberly Crenshaw, many pushed back because
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: it meant that those in the hierarchy aka white women,
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: had to admit that their cause was not about equality
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: but more about power for themselves. Not too long ago,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: black women drew a line in the sand after being
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: continually sidelined or made the token by those who wanted
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: to be considered quote allies.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: In a twenty nineteen year article written in an injusticemac
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: dot org, one writer says quote that overfamiliarity was acceptable
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: for white women to display toward Black women, and we
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: were meant to simply accept the faux familial connection while
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: simultaneously remembering our place. And they continue in the article,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: given the history of slavery and white women's active, yes
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: active role in subjugating, abusing, and dehumanizing Black women during
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: that time and after, we do not feel comfortable and
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: once we state we don't feel comfortable, and they proceed
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: to make it about their emotional distress. Is clear why
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: we feel that way. Even friendships nourished over years have boundaries.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Adhering to boundaries shows value and respect for the individual
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: and the relationship. How are we united when our attempts
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: to establish boundaries are disregarded? How can there be respect?
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: And I'm just going to put this out there, true
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: allyship is not us non black and Indigenous women and
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: non binary folks stating that we are allies, as this
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: is not a title we can give ourselves, just a
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: reminder just because you call yourself that does me that
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: that's what you are. I know you want to be,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: But if you truly are an ally you wouldn't have
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: to say that for yourself. And honestly, that term has
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: began to fade as many people cannot understand the true
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: responsibilities of allyship. But about all of this is accepting
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: the boundaries that have been set for us. So when
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: we talked about earlier, yes, we want to learn how
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: to set boundaries for ourselves. A part of this learning
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: is to respect boundaries as well. From that same article,
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: they say if they are fighting for women that must
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: include all of us, which means combating all aspects of
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: marginalization that women outside of whiteness are subjected to, because
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: just like your whiteness can often chield you from the
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: aspects of sexism, a black woman, a black trans woman
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: will often see the worst because they lack the protection
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: of whiteness and they have to contend with anti blackness,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: misogyn noir and or transphobia. And to add our own
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: trauma to other trauma proceeds to cross the boundary lines
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: as allies and honestly as decent humans. This is something
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: that is important that we talk about, especially in a
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: time where everybody is trying to come together for a
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: greater purpose. But the fact of the matter is this
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: intersectional level. Until everyone has equality, then no one has it.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: And the people who have been fighting the longest and
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: the hardest are the ones that we should be listening to,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: and oftentimes are the ones that are ignored. And just
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: because we have good intentions, those good intentions are not always.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Good And for the bipod community, it has only been
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: more clear in the last few years the importance in
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: setting boundaries. The pandemic and quarantine has made it clear
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: that so often boundaries are pushed past the limits to
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the detriment of marginalized communities. According to another twenty twenty
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: one article, Ethakahindi, a licensed therapist, talks about the impact
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: of working from home during the pandemic. With many working
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: from home over the last year, it has become harder
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: to to escape toxic workplace culture, which has been particularly
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: hard on black women. According to a twenty eighteen Women
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: in the Workplace study, forty percent of Black women said
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: they had their judgment questioned in their area of expertise
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: while earning only sixty seven cents on the dollar compared
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: to what men earned. These factors in other instances of
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: workplace discrimination can cause a major impact on mental health
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and create a demand to separate work from other areas
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: of one's life. Unfortunately, quarantine made that much harder, and
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: they continue writing.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Coupled with everything.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: That's been going on and more awareness around police brutality
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: and racial and systemic injustice, I think it's become really
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: important for people to navigate what their limits are and
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: how they can help really maintain their identity and engage
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: the world around them.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Right and another therapist, Rita Walker, was quoted in the
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: same article saying these communities disproportionately carry high levels of
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: burden with less access to education, housing, economic and political opportunities,
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: while shouldering more violence and disparities in health and well being.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: These communities are resilient, but even resilience has its limits.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: We often get overwhelmed before we know it. When that happens,
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: we feel as if we cannot take any more mentally,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: because we need our minds to accomplish everything in life.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: It's a good idea to protect them before feeling overwhelmed.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: And even if we think we can handle anything, everyone
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: has a limit. Yeah, and there is a barrier when
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: it comes to Black and Indigenous women being able to
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: set boundaries. Many are criticized for taking a break. A
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: couple of examples include Naomi Osaka and Simon Biles, who
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: are both criticized for stepping back due to their mental health.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Many accuse them of betraying their country for not willingly
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: sacrificing their own health for a metal, and many Black
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: women are characterized as being angry or too sensitive when
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: asking simple requests, like using belittling language or appropriating terms
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: like sis, which we're going to kind of talk about
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: in a minute. But doctor let from the Zoe Report
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: that we mentioned earlier, I actually talked of the very
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: situation because starting your SOCCA on bials, she says, they
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: have both put a spotlight on the idea that health
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: is holistic and includes mind, body, and spirit. They've also
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: exposed that black women have to work harder at demonstrating
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: their worth and abilities, which makes them more susceptible to
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: mental health concerns that are not often addressed due to
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: stigmas surrounding women and the black and brown communities. And yeah,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: I think we need to kind of have that big
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: conversation about why we want to demonize someone for our
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: self worth. Again, that's the whole different thing. And as
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: we were talking about the term CIS. Last year, there
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: was a black TikTok creator who requested white women to
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: not call her CIS and she was met with a
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: lot of angry white women who immediately violated that request
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: and went after her for that small, simple request. And
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: though we aren't going to talk about the incident too deeply,
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: it's interesting to look at how quickly allies turn when
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: told they do not have the privilege of saying something
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: and again, this has a lot to do with the
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: African American vernacular that we have talked about previously, that
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: has been addressed previously by other hosts, and why it's
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: important that we understand appreciation versus appropriation. When we had
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: a book club with our guests talking about language and
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: the basis and the history of language and a lot
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: of it was stolen from black culture, which Black culture
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: has been villainized for and being told they're angry or
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: inappropriate or unprofessional. But yet we're taking their language. And
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: this is one of those moments like you have not
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: earned the right to call me sis and appropriately so,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: and yet white women coming out of the woodward going
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: but why can't.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I m hm, yeah, I mean I think that whole
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: respecting of boundaries, like if you want to set your
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: own boundaries, you mean to.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Respect other people's boundaries right as well.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: And I think that's so important to remember and even
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: see that with them pronouns and trust pronouns right now,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: and it feels very it does feel like very weaponized
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: and privileged of like well you can't tell me no,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: don't you know, right, but.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Like happiness, but you can't deny me of mine, of
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: making you miserable, which, yeah, and you know this has
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: kind of moved on that Tektoker. I believe she erased
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: her content because she was getting so much flack and
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: even being told that she was too angry. It was
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: so absurd.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: M m mm hmmm.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: But yes, as we have said before, angers is not
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: a bad thing, and therapists Hindi agrees. They write, I
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: think that when people experience a black woman being angry,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: it is not random. Oftentimes anger is a healthy response
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: to someone violating your boundary or being dismissive, because we're
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: all entitled to be heard. And I do think it
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: really impacts black women and how they engage, especially in work.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I think in social environments where black women and black
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: female identifying individuals engage with others like them, there's less
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: of this fear of being angry because they're being heard
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: and understood. Right.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: And Yeah, that's just such a big open conversation of
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: what we've been seeing recently of like, Okay, how do
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: we do better, Let's do better. That's I feel like
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: since Anie, you and I have come on to the show,
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: that's kind of been that perspective, like we want to
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: do better. Let us know when we're doing something that
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: is inappropriate and or going against our own mission. But
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: of course there comes the outrage because you are being
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: taken away from something and these boundaries that we've had
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: to set for ourselves, even when it comes to the show,
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: like yes, if we've responded to you maybe because yeah,
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for clarifying and let it get
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: us know, versus you feeling offended because we're calling you in.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: That's a whole different conversation and setting that boundary of like,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: we're not going to engage in toxicity for the sake
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: of your entertainment, and that's kind of where we are
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: seeing these The boundary is we all want our boundaries
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: to be met and or respected. That means we also
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: have to respect others even if it makes you uncomfortable
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: or makes you feel like, oh, you did something wrong,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: because there are moments it is again a call in,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: and you need to consider about why that feels like
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: a call in.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: So we've gone through some other reasons why boundaries are
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: important and how setting boundaries or respecting boundaries again can
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: be difficult. So let's talk about how to set boundaries,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: and we're not going to go completely into it. We're
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: just gonna give you a few things that we have
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: read from different articles and may be helpful.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: One big thing is figuring out what is important to you?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Is it something that is a value to you? And
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: just kind of I feel like I've talked a lot
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: about mindfulness since the pandemic, but it's kind of that
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I like sitting there and thinking, Okay, what, why am
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I saying yes when maybe I didn't want to say yes?
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: What is important? Where do I really want to lay
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: down this boundary?
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: And why is that?
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Is it not a big deal? Okay? Cool? Is
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: it going to set a precedent?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Also, you could start learning some new phrases to say
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: no or no things or maybe not today type of way.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: And here are some examples from the Zoe Report and
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Psychology Today. Annie, We're going to practice you ready, Okay,
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to start so ready, I'm going to
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: say it. I'll get back to you.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: That won't work for me.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to take that on right now. Thank
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: you for asking, but no, Well, I will need help
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: with this.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I need a break.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've changed my mind.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable with that.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: That sounds like a great opportunity and I want to help,
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: but is it okay if I think about it for
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: a while.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I'd love to you, but I know I'm over committed
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: and I won't be able to give this the time it deserves.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: So obviously we're very specific, but yeah, there are ways. Again,
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: this is kind of again that whole being polite, and
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with being polite, but again I am
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: interested to know who is being polite and who was
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: just being blunt.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Right, And I'm also curious.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: This is kind of reminding me of the conversation we
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: had around strategic incompetence when people are like not being
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: honest and genuine when they say things like this, or
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: because it kind of it's again that flip side of
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: the corn.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: It's very complicated. But it's also like my mom.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: I've talked about this before, but it's kind of interesting
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: because there are some things that because of when, when
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: and how she was raised, she's learning after me, and
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: this is kind of one and she struggles really hard
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: with saying no, and I learned from her, but I
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: think I've like kind of surpassed her. And I was
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: telling her sometimes if I know a conversation and I
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: it's going to involve that, and I'm worried that I'm
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: going to give in and I really don't want to.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I'll like write out a freaking script. I will write
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: something out. I will have bullet points on my hand
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: like it's kind of it sounds.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Silly like reading these things. It's like, you can't just
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: do that right. Sometimes you need it right.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: I have definitely practiced beforehand of what more do you
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: say in the car as I'm driving having a full
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: long conversation with myself?
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Oh me?
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: All right? So back to some other smothered tips that
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: we found taking a look at the big picture. Is
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: it something you need to do right now? Can you
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: kind of push it down the line, deal with it?
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Does it help you, does it help anyone? Or is
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: it just something that people are using you for. Be honest,
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: let people know when you need a break, don't ignore
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: when you feel overwhelmed. And I think that's one of
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: the things is we're not honest, not with ourselves when
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: we come to that breaking point until it's too late.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: And again that's the same thing of being mindful. Just
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: really listen to that. Oh yeah, I'm hitting that wall.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna need before I lose it and lose friends,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: I'm going to need to take a step back.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's a great way to look at
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: it is you don't want to have a meltdown and
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: then hurt somebody. And I think one of the things
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: we haven't really touched on in this episode but is
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: sort of on the outskirts. I think a lot of
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: acid to do is self esteem, at least when it
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: comes to women. So for me, I don't have the
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: A lot of times I don't have the self esteem.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not worth saying no. They want to do it,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: and they I want to make them happy because they're
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: better than me. So kind of like telling yourself, now,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: if you want to stay in read that fan fiction,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: then do it, Then do it. I say, also find
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: where you need to set boundaries. Is it in your
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: work life, your love life, Many aspects of your life
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: could be Yeah.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: And if you can get connected, whether it's through therapy
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: or a support group. And there's a lot of bad
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: friends out there, but there's a lot of great friends
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: out there too, and hopefully you are able to connect
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: with those people who will also tell you, hey, you're
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: you sure you want to do all these things? This
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: is kind of running yourself too thin. You might not
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: want to do this. Those are the friends you need,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: and sometimes it's nice to have someone as a sounding
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: board of like is this too much or is this
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: not enough? Type of conversation.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and again remember we need to learn to
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: respect people's boundaries, listen when they are letting you in.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: If you want to be an advocate, make sure you
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: are listening and not putting words into other people's mouths
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: and adding more work for others. Google is an amazing
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: tool for learning and there are so many great resources
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: out there for that. Sometimes it does feel really funny
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: again kind of looking up these sort of basic keep
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: and truths.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: But it makes sense, like you know, people are complicated.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Right, and honestly, when it comes to when we talk
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: about social justice work and we were talking about wanting
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: to be good people and good advocates, there is work
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: out there. We have read several books and if you
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: want to go through our book club list, there are
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: amazing books out there, resources that already exist, yep. Where
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: you don't have to tax other people to do the
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: same work when you can do it yourself.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely, Yeah, all of this, all of this
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: can be healthy if you're doing it in a productive manner.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: And by the way, there are.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Toxic boundary settings that happen as well. Again, refer back
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: to boundaries and bipoc community and toxic masculinity and yes,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: strategic and competence. Perhaps yes, and boundaries can help you
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: avoid burnout and have a better sense of identity and yeah,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: even build better self esteem.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Right, and boundaries are different for different people. From Better
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: at humans Dot article titled how to Set Healthy Boundaries
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: a Compassionate Guide for Women, writer Julia Horvath writ's quote,
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: boundaries exist on a skill for each person, and we
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: all have to find our own middle ground. And I
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: think that's a good conversation to have. Not everyone has
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: the same level or limits and it looks differently for them.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: And continue to ask questions for yourself, learn about your
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: own limits and how to best set them. But also
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: understand that, yeah, community is a good thing. There is
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: a healthy boundary. There's a healthy middle ground that we
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: need to find when seeking help. Again, don't use your
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: friends necessarily to the point that you're pushing them away.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: You know, when I would mention that I was a
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: social worker, I got a lot of interesting reactions and
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: I would have to set boundaries to be like, maybe
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: you should talk to your therapists about that, and not
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: that I didn't have many friends who did that, but
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I had strangers roommates that I wasn't close to that
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: would do like does this sound normal? Does this sound like? Okay?
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: I don't get me wrong, I love analyzing, but being
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: constantly on yes, taxing and yeah, that's that same level
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: as understanding middle grounds for yourself. I know sometimes it's
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: really hard because you want to be a helpful person
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: and you feel like you owe that to someone, but
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: you know, yeah, there's a certain point that you need
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: to have a moment for yourself.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this is, like many of our conversations, is
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: very nuanced because it's also like.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Who are you actually trying to help? Are you like me?
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Are you trying to avoid something and you're pooring that
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: into helping someone who doesn't want your help?
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: You know, that's good questions.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I know in a lot of past episodes
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: we didn't talk about it too much in this, but
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of you have written in about setting boundaries
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: with family, so I know that is a big big
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: piece of this too. And yeah, taking that time to
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: learn your boundaries and how to set them in a
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: healthy way is so important. And if you have any
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: tips you'd like to share. Again, not everything works the
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: same for everybody, it'd be different. But if you have
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: anything you'd like to share, any resources you'd like to share,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: you know we love those. You can emails at Stephanie
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Twitter at mom step podcast or on Instagram at stuff
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: when ever Told You. Thanks as always to our super
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: producer Christina, Thank you and thanks to you for listening
• 40:24
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• 40:26
  Speaker 2: podcast from my heart Radio is the iHeart Radio app,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Apple podcast or where you listen to your favorite shows.