Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / Cody Bonnette on The History of As Cities Burn and their New Album

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Cody Bonnette on The History of As Cities Burn and their New Album · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you got away with it.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: What would have happened if I'd have closed my eyelids
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: in bliss and ignorance? Cody from As Cities Burn. This
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: is a very meaningful interview, Cody. I just mentioned to
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: you just a second ago, As Cities Burn is truly
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: one of my favorite bands of all time. I've been
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: listening to you guys ever since. Son, I Loved You
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: At Your Darkest. That's one of my favorite albums of
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: all time. And then obviously a couple years later, Come
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Now Sleep comes out and that quickly became my favorite
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: album of all time. And I think I'd still say
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: it's my favorite album of all time. It's like just
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: it was so meaningful and so impactful to me at
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: that time in my life. And it's an album I
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: come back to very regularly, as well as obviously all
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: of your other albums. I love Hell and High Water,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: obviously the album in 2019, which I don't know why
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I'm blanking. Scream Through the Walls. Yeah, Scream Through the Walls.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: And then obviously now you guys got a new album
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: coming out. I'm just super excited for all things As
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Cities Burn. Again, just one of the most important bands
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: in my life. And so just really appreciate you coming on.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: We'll talk all things at City's Burn, but before we
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: dive into that, how are you doing today?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I'm doing great. A little tired.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Got up at 3.30, go to the gym, go work
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: a 10-hour shift. Dang.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's a 10-hour shift.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I drive an hour to work and then do
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: the 10-hour shift and an hour home. Sometimes it's an
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: easy shift where you're just kind of watching the clock,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: and then sometimes it's like, you know, they're like working you.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: And today was one of those.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: Days, but.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Right. Good. I'm good.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine 30 just to go to the gym.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Like there are people that like do you ever end
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: up in those situations where like you're going to the
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: gym because you just woke up and then you've got
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: somebody who's like still out at night, like about to
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: go back home. Like do you ever cross paths with
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: those types of people? Because 330 feels like the kind
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: of time where like the night owls are about to
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: like go to bed. And then, like, you people, whatever
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: we would call you, you guys are going to the
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: gym and getting ready for the day.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Well, at 3.30, I'm making my lunch for the day
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: and feeding my dogs and cat.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I get to the gym at 4.30? Yeah, 4.30 to 5.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: So there's actually a lot more people than you would think.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: think at the gym at that time, which is kind
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: of cool.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Cause I see the same people every day, mostly.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Right. And sometimes we like nod to each other and stuff.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Like what's up, stay strong, keep going. You know, I'm
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: not giving up. You're not giving up, but, uh, it's.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Just like a four 30 gym workout. That's, that's next level.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: It's only 25.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Are you like a college athlete or what? What's going
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: on here?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: No, I just feel, feel better.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Like having like strength and mobility and I'm actually less
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: sore and you know, you just like being strong is
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: good too. I work like maintenance, you know, at a
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: plant and I don't know, I just, I just feel
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: better about myself. It's, it's a positive habit that like
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: keeps my mind right. And, you know, you know, don't
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: get me wrong. Like I, I try to talk myself
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: out of it all the time, but it's just like,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: if I'm going to work, I'm going to, cause I'm
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: not going to be any less tired if I go
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: to work 30 minutes earlier, you know, or, or I
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: sleep 30 minutes later.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, you might as well.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Right. So I just, um, it's just a good habit and, uh,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: you know, the results are good and, and I need to, um,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I need to change up my workout and like work
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: some other muscle groups or something, but I'm going to, uh, I'm, I'm,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: it's a process, you know what I'm saying? But, uh, yeah,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: I'm just, uh, today was like a little bit physically taxing,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: but I work four tens. So today is actually my Friday.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: So I don't have to work tomorrow.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: So look at that.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Here you are on the weekend.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's my weekend has started.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: So, um, well, uh, let's talk about, uh, just kind
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: of history of ass. He's burned. You guys have a very, uh,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: dare I say complex history. It's, it's, it's been pretty
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: topsy turvy in a lot of ways. Um, but again,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: for a lot of people, especially fans of acid, he's burned.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: It's just one of the most important bands. And so,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: You know, I know you guys, you know, initially started
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: out of Louisiana, you and your brother, and then eventually
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Aaron comes along and a few other guys. Yeah, just
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: love to hear just kind of maybe the origin stories
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: of At City's Burn. I would imagine you and your
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: brother just like kind of grew up playing bands and
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: eventually that morphed into At City's Burn?
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Not really. I came up playing in, well, I guess
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: 15 years old, I got a bass guitar and.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: And was playing in a ska band with the original
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: drummer of As Cities Burn and Colin, the original guitar
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: player of As Cities Burn, who then played– he played
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: bass on Come Now Sleep. And we were in like
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: a ska punk band, and then that band kind of
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: morphed into just a kind of a pop punk band.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: And then– then that was high school era. And so
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: TJ was not a musical person. TJ, my brother was a, uh,
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: he actually got best dressed in high school. So he
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: was kind of more like a preppy, like, uh, just
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: a banana Republic model. And, uh, but he came to
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: our shows a lot anyway, around the time that, uh,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: It was actually year 2001-ish, you know, 2002 when Thursday
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: came on the scene and Jimmy E. World released Bleed American, right?
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: So it's like we kind of like loved those records.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: And so we sort of got done with pop punk
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: and we were like, let's do this kind of like
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: indie screamo stuff. You know, I guess it was called
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: emo then and stuff.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So we uh.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: We don't have a singer you know and we like
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: put up flyers and we're like emo punk band what's
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: looking for singer and we're we're going to LSU at
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: this time so Baton Rouge like a lot of people
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: young people you know coming for college or just around
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: the area and we tried out several people and it
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: was just not it was not landing and then like
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: You know, we're just hanging out one night, and then TJ's, like,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: talking to me. He's one of our roommates. We're all
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: living together in an apartment. And he's like, man, I've
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: been so jealous every time somebody.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: But can I ask, TJ's older than.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: You, right?
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: He is two years older than me, yes.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, but you all are kind of going to school together,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: but he's a couple grade years older.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're both in the Baton Rouge area.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to, like, a community college. So I'm
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: going to LSU.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Not really taking it very seriously. We want to play music, actually.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: And so he's like, I was so jealous of these
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: guys you're trying out, and I'm glad it hadn't worked out,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: but would it be okay if, like, I gave it
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: a shot?
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: And then so we, like.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: We got, like, a little guitar practice amp and plugged
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: a microphone into that, and, like, that was the vocal mic.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And, you know, he just kind of started hollering and stuff,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: and we were like, this is a cool vibe.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: And so over the years, he kind of, like, learned
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: how to be a front man and be a singer
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: a little more, and maybe even more just like a screamer.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: And we thought that he had like.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Had he never practiced screaming before?
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: No, he had never been in a band.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Whoa, that's crazy.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: He's never been in another band other than As Cities Burn.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: And then our first show, it was weird. Our first
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: show was September 11th, 2002, one year after the World
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Trade Center thing, right?
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: So.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: we're playing as a band called As Cities Burn, like
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: on this anniversary. And we're playing this little punk venue
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: or something in New Orleans.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: And TJ's got.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: His back to the crowd, kind of real timid. And
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: as soon as we start playing, like I feel like
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: this is amazing. Like I'm a fish back in water.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Like I hadn't played live in a long time. And
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: this is the kind of music I'm playing. I'm playing
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: with my brother. And then TJ just kind of got
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: more and more confident as time went on. And like,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: turned to the crowd and started to be a better entertainer.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: And that was.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Always something that I really, you know, so then that
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: segued into writing for the first record, Son, I Loved
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: You at Your Darkest. So that was the heaviest the
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: band would ever be, really, was on that record. And
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: we were, it was kind of like popular to be
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: in a hardcore band around that time. Not that it's,
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: necessarily any less now, but it was really like, like
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: Norma Jean, bless the martyr, kiss the child was like
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: the jam and like under rose, um, changing of times.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: I think that's what it's called. Like weird times came out.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 2002 I think. Yeah.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: We're super into that kind of vibe.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: And, um, so, uh, but, but we those were the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: really the only two heavy albums like I was really into.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Like I said, I came up kind of like doing
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: like ska and punk. So it was like, because we
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: played with so many hardcore bands around, like that kind
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: of made us be more hardcore, I think. Right.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And then I was, um, I was.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Also a bass player before and like, this was the
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: first band that I'd played guitar in. So I was
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: like really, you know, just when you're like 19, you're
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: just like really into something.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: You just like, your mind's like a sponge.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: And I was just playing guitar all the time, putting
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: my fingers places, having no idea what I'm doing, playing
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: by ear and trial and error and just putting this
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: stuff together. And, um, you know, I would, uh, you know,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: have this four track recorder that I'd kind of like
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: figure out how to play one part and then figure
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: out the little noodley part on top of it. Teach
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: a part to Colin, our guitar player, who I'd been
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: playing in bands with for a long time. He was
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: actually the singer of like the ska and punk band.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Anyway, he's learning guitar now.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: I'm teaching them how to, we're both learning how to
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: play guitar together. TJ's learning how to be a singer.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: And basically when we got 10 songs that were once
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Aaron made it in the band, all the first 10
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: songs we wrote once Aaron came in were on son,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: I loved you at your darkest. And that was like,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: we were all like, man, this we're like, we're there.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: We're heavy, you know?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Uh, and, and I think we were kind of like,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: what are we going to do next? A little bit.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: And then we kind of, at that time we were
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: on like, uh, It was like three or four months
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: straight touring where we didn't really take breaks, and we
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: just burned ourselves out. And I think that led TJ
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: to quit the band. And he also got engaged. And
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: so it was just like he didn't want to be
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: doing it anymore for whatever reason, for fatigue, and just
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: kind of wanted to start a regular domesticated life. And
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: everybody's fine with that, but what are we going to do?
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: We were going to break up. That was one of
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: the times we were going to break up and then
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: actually started a farewell tour and then in the middle
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: of that decided not to.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: And it was just foolish to do stuff like that.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I'm curious to go back with like Sun I Loved
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: It or Darkest. You know, it is one of the
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: most impressive debuts in the tooth and nail world. It
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: truly is incredible to think of the musicianship you guys
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: already had at that point. I remember years ago I
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: was talking to my friend Dan Koch. I don't know
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: if you know Dan Koch. He used to be in
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a band called Sherwood.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: And Dan. So Dan's a good friend of mine. And
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: we were talking about I think it was either on
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: my pod on our podcast or his podcast. But we
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: were talking at one point about, I don't remember what
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: it was, but somehow Sun I Loved You at Your
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Darkest came up. And Dan had this really insightful insight
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: that I had never really thought about before, even though
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: obviously I love that album so much. And said, it
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: is one of the best, for a debuted album, it
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: is the clearest vision he's ever heard from a band
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: or one of the clearest visions from a band when
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: it came to a debuted album. You know, a lot
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: of bands, you know, and obviously there's kind of this
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: like stereotype of like the sophomore slump or whatever. But
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: like there are a lot of bands that might just
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: kind of hit it big on that first album, you know,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: like the Killers did that, you know.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: But like but there's something about like even if they
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: might have bigger hits on that debuted album, there's clear
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: vision that happens like later on. And that's not to
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: say that like you guys like lost clarity in your vision.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: But there was something about you coming in, especially as
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: like a hardcore band, essentially, or a post-hardcore band, coming
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: in as a debut album, a debut band, and just
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: having just a clear vision of like what makes you
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: guys unique and interesting and different. And you guys just
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: had that right away with this album. It was, I mean,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: it's just truly, truly impressive. And still to this day,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: like one of the best debut albums, again, like I said,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: from that Tooth & Nail world.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: That's cool, man.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I don't know if you guys had
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: a sense of that. Like, I know you said that, like,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: you know, you kind of fell into being, like, a
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: heavy band. But, like, did you have a sense that, like,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: once you had this album recorded and you were listening
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: to it the first time, did you feel like, wow,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: this sounds different than even some of the other hardcore
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: bands in this world? Because to me, like, it sounds
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: different than a lot of other bands that were coming
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: out of that time, especially in the Tooth & Nail world.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was our.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, so there's two things I think were going on.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: We didn't grow up listening to a lot of hardcore,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: but then we kind of wanted to be hardcore. And
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: then the second thing would be we're new at our
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: instruments kind of thing and we're like young at it.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: So it's sort of just like trial and error, you know,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: putting your fingers places.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Actually it's like I was really maybe.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: At that time my favorite album was The Moon Is
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Down by.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Oh okay that totally that makes sense.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: So yeah they're a little like jazzy kind of like
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: picking like slightly noodley stuff but then also Beloved was
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: out you know Beloved was a band that was kind
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: of coming up then and like I think his name's
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Matt their guitar player that would do like the noodley
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: stuff like that stuff was so cool. So it was
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: kind of like, I see what he's doing. And, and
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: then you just, you know, do some like little hammer
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: ons and stuff. And just, like I was saying, I'm
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: so immersed in like noodling on guitar that something had
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: to stick. Uh, and then lyrically, like, I think TJ
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: was sort of like, you know, I would write the
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: lyrics then, or I've, I've written lyrics, the lyrics for
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: as cities burn for the most part. But TJ was
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: like the, the avatar, like the, the front runner where
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: you could like, like he, he would bring ideas on
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: like what to say and how to phrase something sometimes,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: but it was more like TJ's got this powerful presence that,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: you know, you could put the words.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: In his mouth.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: And so it's like, I wasn't confident enough to sing
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: them myself or say them myself, but I had this
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: guy who's, you know, angsty, like screaming this stuff. And
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: it was just such a powerful, um, kind of like
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: a platform to have. And so it was like, you know,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: we loved solid state and tooth and nail or tooth
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: and nail mainly like solid state put out our first record,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: but it was like, we grew up on the tooth
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: and nail records. That was like our label that we
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: would choose. We just happened to be in the heavy
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: phase at the time. As far as uniqueness goes, like
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: I just really do believe like it was God, you know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: it was just God, putting the the ideas in our
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: minds and the words in our minds and letting us
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: carry them out and it was encouraging to us and
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I know that it encouraged other people and it can
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: probably still like encourage people today and that was always
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: the reason why we like set out to do it
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: you know so that's cool to hear that that take
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: on it being a strong debut yeah we didn't we
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: didn't continue In the same vein, you know.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Totally, totally.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: We almost wanted to change our name. We did want
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: to change our name.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: We went to our A & R guy for the
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: second record and they dissuaded us from doing that because
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: it was like, you know, you kind of got a
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: band name already.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: You got some platform. Right, right.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Momentum, like you want to stay. It takes more to
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: kind of rebrand something.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Totally. Maybe this would be a good time to switch
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: to Come Now Sleep era or... the rest of the
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: history of the band.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know where you want to go.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, a couple other questions around, uh, Son I
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Loved You at Darkest. Uh, and obviously I definitely want
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: to talk about like Come Now Sleep and Hell or
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: High Water, but yeah, with, with Son I Loved You
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: at Darkest, I think one of the things that also
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: made it unique was the fact that you had Josh
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Scoggin as this like voice because he was the producer.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: You have his voice. And so my favorite band of
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: all time, uh, this, this has like been, Talked about
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: extensively on the podcast. My favorite band of all time
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: is The Chariot.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: I love The Chariot through and through. I would imagine
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: you love The Chariot as well. And Josh has such
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: a unique ear for like really interesting sound and unique
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: just like progressions and music, songwriting, whatever. Like he just
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: has like a knack for like finding like the right
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: little thing that's like different.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And I would imagine like working with Josh on that
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: record really helps me. especially like a new band, really
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: get a sense of like, oh, this is what makes
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: us different. Did you experience that with Josh working with
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: him on that album?
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Definitely. He wasn't very heavy handed.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: He was just like, I'm going to throw a lot
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: of things at the board and you can reject them.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: He's like, I don't even know if I like them.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: And that was a really cool way of producing. He
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: just like had a lot of ideas and some, you know,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure every single song.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Had some... some.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Shift that was influenced by him. You know, he sings
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: on one. He had a lot of good ideas lyrically
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: for me to just basically like a little bit of
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: an editor, you know, like this doesn't land as, you know,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: what if you twist it like this?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: So, and we were new and.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: We were kind of too close to see, you know, writing,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: being so invested in the music and you need someone
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: to come on the outside and, and kind of be like,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: this is what I hear. And that could have been
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: Matt Goldman who produced it in the studio alongside Josh,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: who was in there. Josh kind of focused mainly on
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: vocals for us, which is great. because TJ again a
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: new singer Josh would kind of be like say that
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: he wouldn't believe something sometimes you know like you're saying
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: that lyric but you're saying it kind of like soft
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: like let's mean it you know and that pull then
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: you know okay let me try it a little louder
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: And then the next take is like, everybody's like, oh,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: we got chills.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Like, that's the one we use.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the one.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: So it was special. It was a special time. That's cool.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: And Goldman, Goldman is, no one else would have been
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: able to do that. Like, Goldman is why that record
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: sounds that way. And then this guy, Mike Watts, mixed it.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: But I don't think we could do it again. There's
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: no way we could write like that again because I've tried.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I've tried.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: I just can't go back. It's just, it just is
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: a moment in time.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Obviously, I love the progression that you guys ended up
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: having in your songwriting and with the songs that came
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: out later. But my goodness, there was something really special.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: It sounded like at that time. And again, I just
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: remember when that, you know, when Bloodsucker music video came
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: out and just like watching that for the first time,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I think I was like in sixth grade or something.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I was like 11 or 12 years old and seeing
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: that for the first time and just being like, what
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: is this? This is so different. And again, I was
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: listening to like Under Oath and I obviously, I love
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Under Oath and I love all these different bands that
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: were coming out of that scene at that time. But
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: there was just something different about As Cities Burn that
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: quickly became one of my favorites. It just was such
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: a unique and incredible time and You guys just captured
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: that moment, I really think. Just truly an iconic album
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. And so I just feel
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: very grateful that that music exists in the world. I
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: would imagine you maybe have, I don't know what your
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: relationship to that album is now, but for me as
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: a fan, it just is truly one of the most
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: important albums. And we haven't even touched on the most
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: important album in my life. We're just coming out of sleep. Yeah,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: and so obviously with TJ leaving the band, so now
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: you lose this kind of lead vocalist, screaming person. you
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: kind of take the reins of, of doing a little
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: bit of both, really both the singing and obviously a
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: little bit of the screaming as well. I think what,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: and you guys lean, you're talking about like the noodling
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: and that was like a new thing for you. Like
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: you really lean into that with this album to a
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: point where like some of the songs are really kind
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: of this really just like, almost like in some cases,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: just like solos of you just kind of noodling around.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of that that happens in that, on
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: that album. And I, I, I'm sure we can talk about,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: there's so many directions we could go with that. But
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I think where I'm curious for you is, I think
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: part of the reason why that album connected to me
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: wasn't because I had the same sort of life experience
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: as you when you were writing that album. But I
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: do know, obviously, you know, a lot of that album
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: is based on your friend Timothy's death. And I know
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: there's lots of, you know, sort of feelings and experiences
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: that come out of that. And knowing like how sort
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: of open and honest you are about the feelings and
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: experiences and doubt that you even have in your faith
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: in that album, like there was just so much raw honesty.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, like when it comes to both the musicianship
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: and also the lyrics, like there's just something about the
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: honesty about that album. And did you feel like you
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: were just like, you had nothing else to give, but
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: just like straight up honesty in that album? I'm just,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, but like that, I feel like that's the
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: reason why that album connects to so many people is like,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: it really feels so brutally honest and raw in a
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: way that a lot of albums aren't.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: That's really cool to hear guy, your take on it.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Uh, first I always kind of thought like, I didn't,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, Maybe I hadn't listened to Come Now Sleep
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: in a while, but I didn't really think of it
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: as such a guitar-driven thing, whereas the first album, I
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: was like, yeah, it's all guitar the whole time. Come
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Now Sleep, yeah, it is very layered now that I
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: think about it. As far as the lyrical content, I
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: knew we came so hard to the scene in the
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: first album.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: It was like thought out lyrically. And now I'm stepping
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: up to the plate and TJ is no longer in
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: the picture. Like I've got to do this. And so
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: I've always loved poetry and, you know, like, you know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Josh Gargan, again, like a great writer. Like I always love,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: you know, putting poetry to songs. So that was like
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: my best effort at it. And this is, The songs
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: were coming as, you know, my roommate, who is Chris
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Lott's younger brother, like our guitar player, Chris Lott, came
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: into the band at that point to be on Come
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Now Sleep. Anyway, we had an apartment together when we
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: were writing this.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: And his little brother lived with us. And me and
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: him would stay up playing Halo.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Talking about God and like why I believed in God
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: and why he.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Did not and so it was so cool that.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: We were just talking about this the whole time and
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: it's like that's who I'm talking about at the end
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: of the first song that's like brother have you found
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: the great peace that we all seek you know like
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: and he's like well just look around if there's a
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: God he must be asleep you know and so I
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: I almost was like putting his point of view in
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: the songs, but I also see them in myself too
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: because it's hard to believe. It's hard to believe in God,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: but then it's also easy because you have to kind
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: of keep letting go of your idea of God. That's
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: what I've learned really works for me is that as
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: soon as I feel like I've got it, then I
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: realize I don't know anything.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And you have the amazing lyric that I will get
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: tattooed at some point. This arm is like mostly done
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: and this arm is going to be all like words
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: of like quotes from books, lyrics, you know, sorts of
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: things like that. One of the things I will get
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: at some point on my body is God isn't really
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: God if he fits inside our heads. And so that's
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: exactly what you're speaking to is like once you think
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: that you've got God nailed down, and you got God
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: kind of put in this box, that's when God expands
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: way beyond that.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. Yeah.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: That's maybe one of my favorite lines that we have.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: And then we were going to ask one of our
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: friends in another band to sing on that song, and
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: it just didn't work out. And then I was like,
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: all right, why don't you guys go while we're recording,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: why don't you guys go out and just talk to
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: people on the street with this camera and ask them,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: what do you think?
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: So, okay. I was going to ask, what is that?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I often listen to that like beginning.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Of, cause it is a clouds clouds. Yeah.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Um, so whenever I listened to the beginning, I've always
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: wondered like, is that ripped from.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Some, it's people, it's our own recordings of people.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I wasn't there.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: It was Colin and Aaron, maybe, uh, that walked around
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: little five points near our studio in Atlanta and, and
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: talk to people. What do you think about God? That
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: was the question they asked. And they said the most
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: gold stuff. And we just brought back like, you know,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: 10 minutes of footage and cut lines and put them
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: up in there. The guy, Chris's little brother is on there.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: I called him up. I was like, all right, start
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: talking about what you think. And we just recorded him
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: over the phone, put him on there. It's just like,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: that makes sense for the verses to like have people
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: just talking about their ideas about God. And then, then
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: you have the chorus.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: It's truly one of my favorite songs of all time.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: It's really cool to know that's how you guys ended
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: up recording that part of the song. But just the
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: whole overall vibe of that song and the way that
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: it builds and builds and builds and crescendos, it's like
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: everything I love in music. You get this really rich,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: interesting lyrical content. you get the building of the, the,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: the sound.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: It's just like, it's everything I love in music.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Some spoken word over music too is so cool.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: It's so cool.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, you know, like, uh, what is that? Um, Godspeed,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: you black emperor, that band, they, they have that all
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: the time.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Um, so the, the guys who recorded the refuse shape
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: of punk to come, we call them the Swedes cause
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: they're from Sweden.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: We were just like, the Swedes are going to mix it. And, uh,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: they killed it on that album.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, so I didn't realize that they were the ones
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: that mixed the album?
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we went back to Goldman and recorded again, and
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: it all sounded good. And then we sent it to
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: the Swedes, and they would send us back a song
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: a day or so. And I'd put on these headphones,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: and it'd be like just blow my hair back. They
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: were like running the drums through guitar amps in a
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: big room and micing really far away from the guitar amp, right?
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: And then putting that in with the drums.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: So that's why it sounds just so like studio tricks
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: that they know that get the big, thick, fuzzy bass
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: sounds and big drums, distorted drums, distorted vocals.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: Like it was just, it was just nonsense. But yeah, they, they,
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: they produce mixed it. Like I think Matt Goldman produced
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: that album and then they, they brought production into the mixing,
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: which is usually like not something that, Mixers are even
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: supposed to do.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, typically they're just playing around with tracks on Logic
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: or whatever it is.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: It would just make it sonically balanced, right?
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's typically all that they're doing. doing that's crazy
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: that they were like they were adding like almost recording
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: it or whatever.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah they were adding parts like there's okay i mean
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: while we're talking about it it's kind of interesting um
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: on the song tides it's like there's a verse and
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: then there's like a stop and there's this like build-up thing,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: and then it goes right back into the verse again.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: It's like this, like, delayed, like, looping build-up thing.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: We sent them something that was so basic and just, like,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: a little couple of drum hits, and they basically run
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: that through, like, an echo pedal or something and make
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: it crescendo, then come back in for.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: That automated exchanges, you.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Know, like that part right there on Tides. And it's like, man, there's,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: I'm never going to not like that moment. And we
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: did not send that to them. But yeah, they were excellent.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: I think Poison the Whale recorded with them in Sweden,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: one of their, or a couple of their albums. But yeah,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: Coming Off Sleep was very cool to do. We had
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: so long in the studio, it was almost ridiculous to
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: spend It was like six weeks in a studio, way
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: too long to be working on like, I don't know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: it ended up being 10 songs. Like sometimes you just gotta,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: like this last record we did, we were in the
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: studio for like eight days. Like it was just like,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: let's just go and do it. But we're a totally
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: different band now. There's a little bit of giving yourself
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: room to write some stuff in the studio, experiment. You know,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: we almost were a new band again because I was
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: now the singer.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: A new guitar player came in, called the move from
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: guitar to bass.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah. So yeah, it was like totally new experience
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I would imagine.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's just, I'm curious again, just the, the, the
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: lyrical honesty. Uh, I know you talked a little bit
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: about just some of the conversations that you were having with,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: with that roommate. Um, but I, I'm also like curious, like,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously a lot of this also had to
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: do with your, your friend's death.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Uh, and I would imagine like, did you, did you
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: just have this sense of like, I can't help, like
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: if I'm going to be a musician, I can't help,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: but just like be brutally honest about who I am
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: and what I'm experiencing. Like, did you have a sense
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: of that, uh, as you were writing this album of
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: just like, there's nothing that can go on these lyric
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: sheets that I'm writing, but just total brutal honesty about
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: what I believe about God, what I believe about his death,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: what I believe about the world. Like, I would imagine
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: like so much of that is like you're just pouring
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: your heart out onto these like sheets of paper that
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you're writing lyrics on. I would imagine. But I also
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: like I wasn't there.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Sure. OK, so our drummers, it was our drummer's best friend.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: And this best friend, Tim, saw our band first and
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: then saw us when we were looking for a drummer.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: And he's like, I know a guy I want to
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: introduce you. So he introduced Aaron to us.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: And, you know.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: Aaron had known him for many, many, many years, and
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: so Aaron was much closer to him than I was.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I sometimes feel kind of guilty about writing the song,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: if I'm being honest, mainly maybe because I put his
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: name in it or it's like some things are too
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: deep and sacred to talk about and sing about possibly.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: and I think I was a little bit naive and almost,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds dark, but like selfish in a
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: way to where it's like, you know, so on the
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: first album we had like the widow, which is about
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: my dad, my personal life. And it's just like a heavy, like.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Deep song.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: And so it's like, I think I had that, like,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: we have to have a deep song on this album
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: mentality with Tim.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: And I don't know.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: It's probably not worth confessing that because I think that
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: like the song is still used and, you know, like
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: I even told someone at a show once that I
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: regretted using his name and they were like, you know, it,
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: it somehow makes it more real that way or. Yeah.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: It's like an actual person. It's not just some sort
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: of hypothetical person.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And it, they said that it kind of like
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: made them kind of relate to it more. So I
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: guess there's more ways of looking at it than the
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: way I was looking at it. A lot of that
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: stuff is like hard to sing now because it's physically
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: hard to sing. And then it's also like, you know,
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: that was 2007. That was 19 years ago. So it's like,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I'm just like not really that anymore.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I also, I also think that there was
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: a little bit of an unraveling of like, you know,
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: you have like naive kind of faith in the first album.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: And then you, your avatar singer, TJ, that's like, give
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: him the words. And he goes, you know, like, and
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: pronounces it to people. And it's like a powerful vessel
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: that we're using. And then it got to me and
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: I'm singing now. And it's like, I'm all, I'm more
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: thinking like of being autobiographical. And it's like, um, seeing
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: more of the world. I'm 23 or something now. And
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: I'm like having doubts, you know, about this, this like
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: fate that I've been kind of handed. And it's like,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: what is it?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: So I think that it was beneficial to be honest
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: about that stuff. Cause a lot of, it connects with
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: a lot of people and it's like probably my favorite
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: topic to write about really. It was like, you know,
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: that wrestling with God, the wrestling with the ideas of
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: God and.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Uh, I love the band.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: I love as cities burn because we have like the
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: space to do that. And it's like, kind of like
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: free to be anything we want now, you know? So, uh,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: I think that we, we tapped into something there. And then, uh,
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: you know, we go to the third album, which is,
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: you know, it was two, two years in between each album,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: two years after, uh, son, I loved you at your
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: darkest was coming out of sleep. And then two years
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: after that, we kind of got, I think it was
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: like this kind of like jaded mentality where it was like.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: It was almost like the I think that I didn't
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: have the answers. I didn't know myself.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: And when you're kind of slightly in the public eye
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: and you have a band and people are asking you
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: and they're thinking that the songs represent you and they
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: come and they I felt like too.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Seen in a way.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't like this anymore. And
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I almost like kind of was like, I want to
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: throw this away. And so I had this kind of cocky,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: careless attitude in Heller Highwater. But at the same time,
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: I still had some of the old software that was like,
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: you know, made too pretty in Heller Highwater. It's like
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: very much like, you know, I never really have liked
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: like the organized church religion where like a guy will
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: be looking down on the congregation, that kind of thing.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: So it's like, why are we so divided is the
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: question in Made Too Pretty.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Why are we so arrogant, maybe even.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: So you have some of that like wrestling with God still,
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: but then some of this kind of like cocky, just
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: kind of like throw away the band, like just trying
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: to write some weird stuff.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: And I don't know.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Where we were going.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Did you have a sense when you were writing that
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: album that this was that last album? I did, I did, yeah.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: You really thought like, all right, like we're just going
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: to throw everything in the playbook at at this now
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: because you know what's there to lose we're done at
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: this point.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Well yes we call colin had quit at this point
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: colin uh so tj had gone after the first one
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: and then colin was a guy i'd been playing music
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: with since high school so now it's like he's gone
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: and then it's just like me and aaron and and
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: chris uh and then chris had gotten chris kind of
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: saw that the band.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Couldn't be all that he had.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: And so he went back to school and furthered his degree.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: So then we had like fillet guitars and Aaron had
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: gotten married and stuff. So people were getting married off
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: and it was just like, this isn't happening anymore, is it?
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: That was kind of my thought.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: It was like, for some reason I have this, I
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: have been a person that's been self-destructive and had this
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: kamikaze attitude where it's just like, let's run this.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Into the ground.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: But then it kind of produced some interesting vibes that
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: I still like now as it came out on that record.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: But it was very disjointed and out of focus.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: But some people say that.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: They only liked that record even, which is kind of
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: cool about our band because it kind of morphs into
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: different things.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like every album really kind of has its own
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: thing going on.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So yes, I did have kind of a vision
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: that it was going to be ending. And then I
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: didn't know.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: And then, and then eventually it didn't cause 10 years later.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Like obviously you guys, you guys, you know, do sort
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: of officially quit, but then, then 10 years later, another
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: album comes out.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: 10 years later.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: That was, it's such a good album. I still love it.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I listened to it. Oh yeah. I listened to the
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: album all the time.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I said, I did another podcast a couple weeks
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: ago and I was like, I think that one's the
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: stepchild because I was like, you know, I showed up
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: at the bar and my friends, the guys in the
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: band were there and they're like, hey, we got an idea.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: Let's do another album with TJ. And I was like,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: y'all been talking about this? And this is like, it
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: wasn't my idea. It didn't feel like it was compelling
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: me from within, right? And I was also like listening
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: and as I do to like more of like a
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: singer songwriter type thing. And I'd come to the band
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: with like these four chords and like a, just a melody.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: And then Aaron, he's like, I don't know if you noticed,
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: but I'm trying to make it heavier. You know what
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: I mean? Like, he's like, I'm pushing this to, to
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: be heavy. And then later after the writing of that album,
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: he said that was real work, you know, meaning like
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: it was kind of like pulling teeth, like putting it
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: together and, And we get another guitar player, Hunter Walls,
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: in at that point.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: So it's like, again, becoming something else.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: And then it just, I think there was a thought
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: that's like, yeah, let's pick up where we would have
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: left off if TJ hadn't quit the band. Because that
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: had been the question. What if he hadn't, you know?
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: And it just, I think it just didn't land for me.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know what I was expecting. I was just
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: also not healthy enough. You know, I had a lot
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: of head problems, you could say. Just stuff I was
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: dealing with in my mind. And then we did a
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: couple tours that were not great for us. And that
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: kind of, like, really soured the band for me. And
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: then it just kind of fizzled out.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Nothing. Right. Nothing had happened.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: But I listened to the album not too long ago.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, some of the stuff I
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: thought was really good, I'm, like, not as stoked about.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: And then some of the stuff I thought wasn't that great,
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: I was like, that was actually better than I thought
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: it was.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: So I just... It is what it is. It is
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: what it is. I saw you guys had Bleach on
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the band.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we just had Bleach a couple weeks ago.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Those guys stopped me at Furnace Fest when we were
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: walking or whatever, and he just said... I was like, what?
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: You guys like that album and stuff? I didn't really
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: think that people had heard it or something. Maybe there's
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: just so much going on that it's hard to know
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: what's getting traction where. That is.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: Actually come to think of it, that might be why,
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: because whenever the, the previous album came out in 2009,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: it was like physical copies were sold and it was
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: before streaming was like a, a big thing, you know?
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: So it's like in the.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Streaming world now, it's hard to know other than like
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: looking at numbers, but that's not even indicative of really
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: the truth of things. Totally.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: But anyway, I was just like stoked that, the guys
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: in bleach were like really kind to me about, you know.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's still such a good album, especially from
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: like 2019. One of my favorite albums of 2019. It
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: was just, again, I still, I still listen to it regularly.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I think it's great. Um, yeah, just like, I felt
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: very appreciative that you guys, you know, I, I know
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: you've said before, and I think I've heard this before too,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: from you guys that like, it did, it did feel
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: like pulling teeth. It did feel kind of like really
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: sort of difficult to put together. And and I would
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: imagine like I'm not discounting that experience. And as a fan,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: as a listener of that album, I'm very appreciative that
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: you guys did it. And so I don't want to
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: discount the fact that it was probably pulling teeth and
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: it probably was difficult to put together. And and I
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: would imagine like it maybe didn't get appreciated in the
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: way that it probably should have.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: But.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: At least for me individually as a fan, I was
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: really appreciative because I just really loved it. I just
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: think it's one of the better albums of 2020.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: It taught me to drop expectations if that was a
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: lesson to get out of it.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: That was good.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: And then I love it. I love the children that
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: come from us and I love making music with Aaron
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: and the guys. So I just think that You know,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: when you're like unhealthy mentally, like it's hard for other
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: stuff in your life that might be going great to
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: feel great.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: So it's like sort of.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Going to always be tainted in that way for me.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Totally get that. I know exactly what that's like.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Which is actually a good segue into.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: I felt like I came into a place over the
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: last two years of like feeling better and.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Thinking better and getting to a... I guess a.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Like a spot that a clearing out of the woods
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: and then things just cleared up and I, I just,
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: songs just started coming back in a.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: In a fast way.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: And then, you know, then this album came out, uh,
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: which tomorrow is when it actually comes on, uh, October
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: 7th when it goes on the streaming platforms, brain matters.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: What Aaron said about it was like, That was so easy.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Aaron then said that this one was very easy.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: And I thought it was too.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: Not that it definitely took time for me and effort
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: and presence.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: But it was like.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: I used to be very uncomfortable sitting and trying to
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: play and listen and wait for the next thing to
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: do in a song.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: And it was like, I almost would run from it.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: It's just, I wouldn't want to fail or I don't
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: know what it was that made me so uncomfortable. And
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: that would lead me to like drink and like, or
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: get high off weed or something. And like this, this album,
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: I was just like totally comfortable sitting and just waiting
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: and listening to the crickets in my mind until something
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: came or didn't come. And it's like, okay, you'll come later.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: And then it just, it just was like a, it
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: was just, it's like, Things just started walking up to me,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: the ideas. And then I had like a nice setup
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: to record in a room with some windows in my house.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: And it was just nice natural light.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: And I just.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: Felt like I tapped into something new that I had
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: never tapped into. And so this album, if I had
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: to pick one, like I'm going to go with this one.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: And so that's exciting for me.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Like it sounds, so it sounds like for you and
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: certainly for Aaron, but it sounds really for you that
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: the writing process might be the easiest writing process since
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: maybe son, I loved you at your darkest.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, easier than that even like, yeah, yeah.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: This was like, it just, things started coming to you and,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: and yeah, it just even, I would imagine like where
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: you're at mentally, it sounds like you're in a better
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: place for writing.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I am.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: And, um, It's weird because like the album's kind of
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: about not listening to the negative intrusive thoughts that like
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: live in our minds and it's common to everyone. And it's,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: it's not like easy to disarm them, but it's once you,
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: once you start like kind of meditating and listening to
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: the internal dialogue of your own mind or whatever, like
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: you realize, I realized like it wasn't me. And then
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: I just like, it's almost like i just woke up
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: you know and then i don't know where the other
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: words that bring the songs come from at all but
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: it's more just like i don't know characters came started
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: talking to me it's the.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Weirdest thing but it uh.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah maybe the next natural one maybe between the first
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: and uh this one are the most like natural like
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: had their own kind of energy so it.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: It is the full circle.
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: I thought that the last album, Scream Through the Walls,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: was the full circle. You go back to TJ, this
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: one actually feels like that.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, because I've listened to the album. I know
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: you said that obviously it hasn't been on streaming, but
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: it has been something where you can download it. And
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: as I've listened to it, it's interesting you describe it
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: as like the easiest album for you to, to write
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: from a sound perspective, like, you know, sort of referencing, like,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: what do I know about As Cities Burn based on this,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: this new album? Like, what does this sound like based
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: on what I already know from As Cities Burn? And
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: the closest that I can put it to is so
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: far from what I've listened to. It, it does sound,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: the the sound just from a sound standpoint it sounds
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: kind of like hell or high water yeah like i'm
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: curious like you're do you have similar thoughts around that
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: like do you think it kind of sounds like that
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: kind of yeah does it sort of maybe for you
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: sound like that vibe but the songwriting feels different like
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: i'm i'm curious just like when it comes to that
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: sound versus like your experience of the album where do
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: you put.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: It yes that's good good point um i mean like
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: so Like I said, when I was writing Scream Through
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: the Walls, the one TJ had come back on, I
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: was like, you know, it's more natural for me to
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: try to write something just on a guitar and try
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: to sing it by myself. When we were bringing TJ in,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: it's like, okay, well now I'm trying to assign you
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: something and then I'll do something and try to do
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: some noodley stuff too because we used to do that.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: This was more like naturally what I write now.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: It's like I'm going to pick up my little this
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: nylon string guitar and start making a couple of chords
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: or picking something. And it was just like, almost when
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: I was writing, I was like not even thinking about
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: As Cities Burn. I was like, maybe at the beginning
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: it was like, I'm just writing something else. I don't
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: know what it is. And then I started sharing it
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: with Aaron and he was like, should we even call
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: it As Cities Burn? And I was like, yeah, like
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: just because like, that's us. It's, you know, you're playing drums,
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: I'm playing guitar and singing.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's us.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: And we're going to redefine what this is. So uh
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: but but yes like I think that what I was
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: starting to tap into during hell or high water like
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: I think I kind of just it's an extension of
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: that you know what I'm saying.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: So well especially like with bringing Matt in and just
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: the sort of The bass that he kind of plays
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: and obviously with the kind of drumming that Aaron's doing
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: in this album, the type of guitar work that you're doing,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: it feels reminiscent to some degree of Hell or High Water.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: That's the vibe. Again, that's kind of the vibe I'm getting.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: But again, if you feel as a songwriter that feels different.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: No, I totally agree.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: As a listener, that's kind of the vibe I'm getting.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: And maybe another explanation for that, and I agree with you,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: is that we, so Emory took us out on two
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: legs of their question 20th anniversary tour, I think, was
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: 20 years. We played Heller Highwater songs with Matt playing bass.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: So we were kind of like, and in between the
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: two legs, I wrote most of the songs and was
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: writing in the second leg. So it was like, when
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: we went on tour with them playing Heller Highwater with Matt,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: it kind of woke us back up. And then I just...
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: started writing some more after that tour, brought it into that.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: And then, so yes, maybe like it kind of primed
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: the situation by replaying that album, which we never, because
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: we had broken up, we never did tour on it.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: So that was a lot of fun. And we even
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: played like some of the songs, like made them their own, like,
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: now that Matt's playing bass and it's a one guitar. Cause,
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: cause a lot of times we had two guitars on
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: that stuff. Yeah.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: We were playing.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's where you can like, you can kind of
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: maybe do the noodley thing and somebody else kind of
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: continues to play rhythm or whatever. But like if it,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: if it's something where you're only playing guitar, then like
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: you've got to really either narrow in on just doing
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: noodley stuff or, or you can only do rhythm, but
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: like it ends up being something where you have to
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: make a choice of, on what, what's the vibe of
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: this song from a guitar standpoint.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And, and you know, less is more even sometimes like, uh,
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: it sounds tighter with less going on, but we are, um,
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: about to go on the road with under oath, uh,
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: on their 20 year of, uh.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Defining the right line.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: And we're going to be playing.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: I'll be there. I'm so excited. Probably, probably honestly second
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: to come now live, uh, or, or come now sleep. Yeah. Um,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: it probably is my favorite, uh, album of all time.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, knowing that like you guys
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: are playing, uh, and obviously I, I would imagine maybe
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: like maybe one or two come now sleep songs, which
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: is totally fine. But like to think that like you
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: guys released one of my favorite albums of all time
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: or probably my favorite. And then second to that is
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: to find the great line. It's just like super sick
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: that like, I get to see like two bands that are,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: that have been so, so important in terms of music.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: In my life. Nice, man.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Nice, yeah.
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: We're playing as a four-piece there, so it's like we're
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: kind of doing this dance now. Oh, Chris Lott's coming
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: back to play on that tour.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, nice.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: So that's cool, the Come Now Sleep other guitar player.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: He's done his own solo band for a while now,
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: and we're actually hanging out with him again. So I'm
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: thinking in.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: My mind I want to start writing while we're on tour.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: And just see if I can get back with Chris
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: and maybe, maybe it just comes back in. But I
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: think like, I just, me and Aaron play well together.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: You know, our friendship has come through a lot of healing.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: Like we kind of butted heads a lot of times,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: but we we've healed and we have like a, we
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: kind of just came to a new level of friendship.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: He and I. So that's cool because like, We could
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: be not friends, me and him, and not say a
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: word and just start playing music together. And it's just
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: like this language that's like, I don't know what the
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: heck you're doing, but somehow it works together. And it's like,
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: we don't need to say a word. Yeah, I remember.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: When I read Aaron's book, because that was like almost
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: 10 years ago. I remember when I read his book,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: the way he talks about you as a musician is like,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: he is truly the most talented person I've ever played
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: music with. And it becomes clear even in his book
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: that like you and him have a special connection with music.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: It's really nice with this.
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: That's another reason why I love this album is that
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: like through this, we've like our relationship kind of experienced
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: a lot of healing. And it's like the songs themselves
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: are healing for me and maybe him. He doesn't, he's
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: not like a lyric guy, you know, but he's a,
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: he's a, a vibe and, like, an honesty and song.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Kind of guy.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: Like, he'll somehow see the vision of a song, like,
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: not having anything to do with the lyrics, but, like,
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: he'll actually edit the songs better. You know, I'll just
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: send several parts to him, and he'll cut them up
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: and play drums to it and send it back to me,
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: and it'll be cool. But, yeah, man, I'm very thrilled
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: that tomorrow we're supposed to launch this website that's, like,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: got the new... you know, links to where to find
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: the music and, you know, new merch. And it's just
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: kind of a new start tomorrow, which is great.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: I know you guys have, like, had kind of an
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: up-and-down history of, like, breaking up, getting back together, breaking
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: up again, and getting back together.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: It's comical.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Breaking up again.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: It's comical.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: It is kind of funny. And, you know, at this
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: point it's like, you know, Jesus only died and rose
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: again once. You guys, you've done it like three times.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Like Jesus has nothing on you guys. But I like,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: you know, despite all of the history, it is one
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: of those things where like for me, again, as a fan,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: like as long as you guys are making music, I
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: think the world's a better place. And so, you know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: I've got plenty of As Cities Burn merch. I've seen
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: you guys several times. You know, I've listened to your
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: guys' albums religiously. And, uh, I, I just really adore
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: all the music that you guys have always put out.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: And so I'm just so excited that there's new music and, uh, yeah, I, again,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I just think the world's a better place when.
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: Ascending Spring is making music.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: We'll see what the future holds, but right now we're
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: kind of focusing on getting behind this, this new group
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: of songs, but yeah, I've loved this little interview. You
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: said you have like some, uh, some questions like that.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah should we yeah should we dive in
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: yeah so i know you wrote some down uh so
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: uh a question that we always do is top five
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: most influential albums so we'd love to hear about a
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: little bit of each you don't just have to list
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: them off really quick just love to hear kind of
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: maybe a thought or two that you have about each
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: one of these but and it doesn't have to be
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: in a particular order maybe sometimes people do it like
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: actually based on like this is my favorite or like
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: most influential album yeah this is my fifth or whatever
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: And sometimes people just do it chronologically or however they
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: want to do it. But yeah. What are your top
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: five most influential albums, Cody?
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: Okay. The last one's maybe going to be a tie
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: because I really kind of have six. But so the
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: moon is down.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, so good.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Farther seems forever.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: And then I like in the airplane over the sea,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: two headed boy by neutral milk hotel. Yes. Okay.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I will say with that album there for some reason,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I never knew that that was like, they put that
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: album out and haven't done anything.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: 1997, 1997.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Like I, I, for some reason, I just thought they
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: kind of just sort of have like plateaued and existed
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: as a band, but sort of haven't like broken through
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: since then. No, I didn't realize that he's, they literally
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: put that album out and like really haven't done anything
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: ever since. Right.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: Uh, I think they went toward like five, 10 years ago, maybe.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Started touring a little bit. Maybe play shows that I
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: don't know, but the record's amazing. It's, Yeah, and then
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: this band Y has a record called Alopecia. That's super good. Alopecia.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Is it W-H-Y?
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, question mark. Yeah, that was actually really influential for
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Hello High Water.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm familiar with that.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: You should check it out. It's trippy. And then what
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: was it?
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: When did that album come out? Do you know?
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: I think in 2008.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, so like, yeah, right before Hell or High Water. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Big, big fan.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, here it is.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, Why? Okay.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's good.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with them at all.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: And then Bleed American by Jimmy Eat World.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Of course, of course.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we've talked about Aaron, and I know
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Aaron has talked about how Jimmy Eat World is, I think,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: probably his favorite band of all time, I would imagine. Like,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: he's kind of one of those, like, diehard Jimmy Eat
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: World fans. There are moments. I remember thinking about this
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: when I saw you guys just a couple months ago
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: in Sioux Falls. There are moments where when I listen
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: to Aaron's drumming, kind of like regardless of whether it's Sun,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I Loved It or Darkest, could be Hell or High Water,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: could be Come Now Sleep, doesn't matter. There are so
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: many moments where I'm like, this kind of sounds like
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Eat World. I'm forgetting, is it Zach Lynn, I
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: think is their drummer. there's so many moments where I'm like,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: you could literally just put Zach Lynn into as cities
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: burn and it would probably sound the same, which I,
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I like, I think that's like a compliment. Like that
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: tells you like how good I think Aaron is. And
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: knowing that he's probably somebody who's super influenced by Zach Lynn,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he would take it as a compliment or
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: at least what I would hope so. But yeah, I
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: just like, I think Aaron's drumming is so it, like
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: it feels very complimentary in the way that Zach Lynn
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: is to world.
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: That's cool.
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: On the last one, I was going to say Bless
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: the Martyr Kiss the Child by Norma Jean or Slowly
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: Go on the Way of the Buffalo by MXPX, but
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: I want to say Plunder, Beg, and Curse by Color Revolt.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good one.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: Color Revolt.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: They're an Atlanta band, right?
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: They're actually from, like, Oxford, Mississippi, Jackson, Mississippi.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. I thought they were more of an Atlanta band.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, Jesse, Jesse, the singer, is a great, great songwriter.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now that I think of it, I can kind
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: of hear Color Revolt vibes in As City Spurs.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we, we, uh, We love them. We're playing a
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: show with them in January in Baton Rouge.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: It's going to be awesome.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: I can't wait.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: I love that. Isn't it cool that like when, when
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: you think of some of these bands, like you, I
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: know you mentioned like, you know, uh, bless the martyr
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: could have been up there.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Color revolt. You know, there's some of these bands where
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: like you, you have gotten to know some of these
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: bands and I think that's gotta be like a cool
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: thing for you as a, as a band, uh, is,
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: that when you start doing your thing and at some
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: point you guys were playing decent-sized shows, you eventually start
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: playing with some of these bands that you're like, wait,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: you're one of my favorite bands.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: What the hell?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: I think that's got to be a cool thing. Just
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: kind of the same way with this podcast. I get
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: to talk with people like you where it's like, wait,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: I was listening to you 21 years ago and you
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: were one of the most important bands in my life
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: 21 years ago and still are to this day. And
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's so crazy to think that like through
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: this podcast, I get to meet people like you and
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I would imagine you feel that way when you get
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: to meet like different bands that have been really important
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yes.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: A lot. Like, yeah, Josh Gargan, I was fan boy,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: you know, like I went on tour with him. We actually,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: we actually played when we started, we were playing shows
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: with the band. They were called Fletcher before they changed
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: their name to Color of Old. So, But they've gotten
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: many member changes, and I've lost touch with some of them.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: But actually, the original drummer did the artwork for Heller Highwater,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: the cover art.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, cool. Yeah, is the original drummer of Colorful.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: Really good dude, Lin.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, those are the most influential, I'd say.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: That's a great list. You can definitely hear a lot
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: of that in... in as cities burn. So that's a sick,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: that's a sick list. Well, uh, Cody, uh, what do
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: you want to plug? So obviously new album, it's going
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: to be out soon. It's sort of kind of has
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: been out already, but it'll at least be on streaming
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: here very shortly. Uh, vinyls available, uh, tour.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: What, what, like say, say more about all of that
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: and more.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: As cities burn dot store is going to drop like tonight.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: So by the time anybody hears this, it'll be up
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: and it's got, you know, link to the new album
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Uh, also the album cover is so sick.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: I'm so, I.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Love the new album cover so much.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: Oh, cool. Yeah.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Me too. Oh yeah. We shot a video last weekend.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: Mr.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: V Mr. V.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: That's going to be cool too.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: That's coming out. So, uh, yeah, go see that stuff.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: That's my plug.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Love it.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I'm just, again, I'm excited. vinyls coming out merch tours
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: you guys are gonna be playing a number of shows
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: over the next couple months so uh i'm excited uh
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: i'll be seeing you at the end of november uh
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: with the under oath tour so again i'm just so
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: so stoked you guys are uh just so important in
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: my life and uh the fact like i said before
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: the fact that acid he's burned is putting new music
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: out makes the world a lot better place at least
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: in my opinion that's so sweet yeah cool uh cody
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: anything else you'd like to plug So if you go.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: On YouTube and search Banana National Anthem, you've got to
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: maybe look around.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: Banana National Anthem? Is it like the national anthem for
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: all bananas or what?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: It's a guy playing on top of a tour bus
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: in a banana suit. He plays the national anthem on
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: guitar and then jumps down into the tour bus after.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: And that may be me playing that guitar. It's probably
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: got like 10 views or something, but it's on YouTube.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: So this is like a YouTube video.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: I was on tour with Emory, and Matt, it was
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: like the 4th of July, and we were in like Indianapolis,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: like downtown, or in this town square.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: Big old thing. A lot of people.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: Going to be some fireworks. And then I just got
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: up on top of the bus with a little guitar
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: amp and an electric guitar.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: And Matt had taught me how to play it.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: And you happened to have a banana suit or what?
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they had a banana suit in the van for
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: some reason, or in the bus.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: And then you just went right through?
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: It's an okay performance. I wish I would have known.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: The song better. Does it rival Jimi Hendrix's National Anthem performance?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: It ain't even close to as good as that, but
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: I think I really stuck the landing of the end.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: The land of the free and the, mainly the land
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: of the free.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, so you sang too?
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: No, I didn't sing.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: I just played it on guitar. But it was more
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: like the way that I played that part. I was probably,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: but it's not, uh, You might be able to find it.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: Maybe not.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: Banana National Anthem. Check it out.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: So I think what you're hinting at here, though, is
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: that when you guys go out on tour with Under
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Oath here very shortly, that we can expect you to
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: be coming out in a banana suit playing your new songs, right?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. That's all that matters is that you're going
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: to be playing in a banana suit.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Filled with bananas.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: The suit is filled with bananas, and I toss them out.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: To the crowd.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: You know, honestly, for the people that are going to be,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: you know, crowd surfing and moshing for those under oath songs,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: they probably need a little extra potassium before they start.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, get some potassium.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: It's good for you.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: That's nice that you guys are going to gift all
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: those bananas to the crowd. That's very kind of you.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Try to eat a banana a day, you know.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Hand-on coordination.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: If banana a day is your secret, then everyone should
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: be eating a banana a day.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: Get your bananas. Banana man.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Well, Cody, thank you so much for chatting about all
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: things As City's Burn, the new album. Just again, like
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I said before, so excited for the new album. Again,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's a better world when As City's Burn
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: is making new music. So, you know, for a band
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: that has been as important, there's very few bands that,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: you know, we interview a lot of bands and they're
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: all great in their own right. There's very few bands
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: where it's like, I'm actually interviewing somebody right now who
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: is like one of the most important musicians in my
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: life and you truly are one of those people so
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: i just really really appreciate you uh coming on and
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: hanging out and uh chatting all things at citysburn so
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: thank you so much man yeah thank you thanks for
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: having me it's a pleasure i can't wait to hear
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: it whenever you get it posted yeah can't wait