Latest / Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship / #190 - Why Birthdays Can Bring Up So Much Friendship Disappointment (Debra Arbit)

Transcript

#190 - Why Birthdays Can Bring Up So Much Friendship Disappointment (Debra Arbit) · Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship

0:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Dear Nina.
0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Conversations about friendship, I am thrilled as always to have you here.
0:09
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be a episode that has been a long time coming because we talk about birthdays a lot, especially in the Dear Nina Facebook group.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Birthdays become out of the symbol for when you feel you are close to somebody, but I am really trying to push people to see birthdays as an opportunity to get closer to somebody that sometimes a thing you are looking for in your birthday doesn't happen because the relationship isn't quite
0:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, people do birthday differently.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We're all different.
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: This comes up in a lot of episodes too, and therefore we all do birthday differently.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Have different expectations around birthdays.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I could push you at all dear listeners of Dior Nina, it is to use your birthday as an opportunity to have some of the kind of friendships you want to have.
0:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And that means the way you celebrate your birthday, but also the way you celebrate other people's birthdays.
0:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Both are an opportunity.
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get into a lot more details of what that might mean.
1:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Some examples, some inspiration, and that will come in my conversation with today's guest who is my very real life actual close friend Deborah Arbit.
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: She has been on the podcast before I'm going to direct you to episode 84, which is called How to Turn in a Quaintance and to a friend.
1:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are some similar themes because in that episode number 84, we talked about how Deborah hosts a lot.
1:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice to your meals for super casual meals, everything in between, and she enjoys hosting.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: She very much had to get over the staff that it was not going to be tipped for talent every time she had someone they would have her.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Birthdays have some similar themes, which is you may be really good at planning stuff, and maybe your friend isn't.
1:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of different scenarios to discuss today.
1:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Deborah has such a wonderful attitude about planning and hosting, and sounds like she just came out that way, and she had to work through that herself as well.
1:57
[SPEAKER_01]: She is a serial entrepreneur who is passionate about lifting up other women business owners.
2:02
[SPEAKER_01]: When she isn't picking up new business ideas and are consulting with women business owners, she is likely cooking her way through a cookbook, completing every single recipe within it.
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: She recently finished, you won't believe, has heard 19th complete cookbook.
2:15
[SPEAKER_01]: She plus all about her cookbook adventures on her Instagram account at four of the love of cookbooks.
2:21
[SPEAKER_01]: where she rates the recipes and shares which of her three kids and husband were willing to try whatever she made.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You will see, and this episode she also happens to be not a really obsessed with birthdays.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I was extremely inspired by how she did her 40th birthday and it was exactly what I needed as I was thinking about birthdays.
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I will be 50th at the end of December.
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: A number that I'm thinking deserves some sort of special treatment, but I got to figure out what that's going to be.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone inspired me.
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I might do something similar to what she did.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I will warn you that some parts of this conversation may frustrate you.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You may go, well, okay, that's easy for her to say.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: She still in the blank.
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: She likes to host.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: She likes to plan stuff.
3:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to challenge you to push past that feeling.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the things Deborah talks about that she is planned.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not always easy for her.
3:09
[SPEAKER_01]: She had to learn to get better at it.
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, here she is, my friend Deborah.
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you'll enjoy her as much as I do.
3:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Deborah.
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Dear Nina.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks Nina.
3:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so fun to be here.
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always funny to talk to a real friend in such an official capacity, but you're a good sport.
3:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It is always so fun and a little awkward even when I got your pre-email.
3:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like this feels so official, so thank you for having me.
3:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very happy to be here.
3:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You're the perfect guest because people have feelings about birthdays and very strong feelings.
3:37
[SPEAKER_01]: When I did the April challenge for people who don't know, or maybe your friends of Deborah and your new to the show, I have done a monthly challenge every month of 2025 and not doing them in 2026, but the April challenge was to just remember your friends birthdays and to do that to put it in your calendar.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: and the reason I did that is because more and more I find that people are not online as much as they used to be or they're trying.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: People of these goals to be online less, but we have relied for 20 plus years on remembering our friends' birthdays a lot of us with Facebook, maybe even Instagram.
4:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a really simple challenge.
4:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think not only that with the Facebook piece, it allowed us for so long to reach out to people who we would have never in a million years know in their birthdays or been expected to reach out, but it's sort of risen the bar on who we reach out to and kind of at what level of friendship ring and now that people are stepping back, resetting those expectations is tricky.
4:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, and I also think the exact opposite happened to where people who probably should have been calling.
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're going to send an actual card, but people who probably should have picked up the phone to call or at least sent a text to their phone, people are writing happy birthday and Facebook.
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And that too felt like, really?
4:46
[SPEAKER_00]: is that the level, I completely agree with that.
4:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have lots of thoughts on that.
4:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So but we today because of the reaction I got to that episode, we're taking it a step further.
4:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, people have a lot of feelings about birthdays.
4:59
[SPEAKER_01]: This does not surprise me because I have a lot of feelings about birthdays.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing you have always done since I've known you, we're not going to go through our whole how we became friends story because that is in our previous episode and people come listen to it.
5:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It will be linked in the show notes.
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Deborah and I have been good friends for about
5:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You think, but yeah, maybe even more.
5:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, coming up on 10 probably.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, well, since I have known you, you have done your birthday and such an intentional way.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this year on your 45th birthday, it was really the most intentional, but all your birthdays have been intentional.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: First, I think we should tell people how you celebrated your 45th birthday, but then I want to go back and understand your psychology around birthdays and how you came to have this attitude.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Because spoiler alert, I'm going to let you know now part of the thesis of this episode, is I believe people may disagree with this.
5:46
[SPEAKER_01]: More people should be taking their birthdays into their own hands.
5:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I can tell by the comments I got from that episode in April, or I get in letters to Do Your Nina, the anonymous form.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of disappointment around how friends are doing
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but is the solution so go ahead.
6:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I do feel like on the poster child.
6:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so per your request I will start with what I did at my 45th birthday, but I feel like I'm excited to go back in time It's to what led up to that.
6:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I realized 45 is not the most epic birthday
6:16
[SPEAKER_00]: for a little context.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: My 40th birthday was in 2020, so it was very difficult during COVID to do anything big.
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So I decided 45 would be a little bit more banner than it may be for other people.
6:27
[SPEAKER_00]: All that said, what I did and so if any listeners are out there are a parent or even just a human on this earth who have ever planned anything, I'm assuming you are familiar with
6:37
[SPEAKER_00]: the platform sign-up genius, which is really revolutionized PTA planning, and all of the other kinds of things you can do.
6:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But I decided, wait a second, maybe I can use a sign-up genius to revolutionize birthday planning.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: What I did was I started to think about what do I want to do on my birthday.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: What would my ideal day look like?
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, okay, well, I know I want to have great coffee.
7:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I want to play Majon, I know I want to eat sushi and I know I want to cook because those are like four of my favorite things.
7:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So I basically sent out a sign of genius to all of my friends and I said, this is where I will be on my birthday from 8 to 930, I will be at my favorite coffee shop from 10 to noon, I will be playing Majon.
7:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And it went on from there and I just said join for one thing, join for five things, and if you can't come, that's totally fine too.
7:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I will admit that even as a person who has planned their own birthday for years and loves birthdays and it's very, very outward about my birthday love even this felt in the moment of hitting send a little bit scary and a little bit self indulgence like, oh God, can I really do this?
7:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say within 10 seconds one person signed up and I texted her right away and I was like thank you so much for signing up just so I'm not sitting here being like what have I done I was really surprised not only that people showed up but also just the reaction of the appreciation for people to just be like thank you for just
8:07
[SPEAKER_00]: telling me what to do basically and making it incredibly easy to participate with little pressure.
8:14
[SPEAKER_00]: If one of these things works for you, that's awesome.
8:17
[SPEAKER_00]: All of them work for you even better.
8:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And if none do, that's also totally fine.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was both kind of highly planned and also took no
8:25
[SPEAKER_00]: effort on either my part or their part.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It worked out so great.
8:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It was better than I could have ever imagined when people were like, how was your day?
8:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, is it weird that it was in my top 10 days of my whole life?
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so fun to see who showed up.
8:38
[SPEAKER_00]: The groups were completely random, which was I thought very fun.
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's pause on that actually because I do think that something we need to discuss as its own potential for wonderfulness and can be an issue for some people.
8:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're going to put that part aside for a second since its own issue.
8:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually want to comment on the vulnerability.
8:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You and I didn't talk about that much.
8:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so excited when I received it.
8:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I, right away, it was like, Tefer, we're doing a podcast episode.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
9:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I am seeing that some people really don't want to do anything for their birthday and then they somewhat resent having to do stuff for other people's birthdays.
9:25
[SPEAKER_01]: There's those feelings, there's people who do want to do something for their birthday, have to plan at themselves and then same thing, resent having to do for others.
9:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The vulnerability that you spoke of just now is that something we talked about when it first came out of, wait, what if no one signs up?
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: What
9:40
[SPEAKER_01]: wouldn't likely happen, but I wasn't sure.
9:43
[SPEAKER_00]: There was part of it of like what if no one signs up, but there was even, I guess, my more real feeling was what if people think this is ridiculous, or just in my seven-year-old child being like, come to coffee with me, but it wasn't at all the reaction at all.
9:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been reflecting on why?
9:59
[SPEAKER_00]: do I typically have very happy birthdays and not everyone does not to get woo woo, but the whole idea of the secret or any of those things of if you go into your birthday with resentment or with sadness or like expectations or trepidation or this is going to be bad or I'm getting too old.
10:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot harder.
10:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Then for you to have a great birthday, you've dug yourself a hole, right?
10:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is where I'll go way back, which is I have a mom who is the queen of birthday joy, the absolute queen.
10:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I have grown up always feeling positive about birthdays.
10:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I know not everyone has that.
10:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that when I go into it, putting very positive energy out, it almost always comes back.
10:39
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a really important thing.
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So not only that I take the
10:46
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, some people are like, oh, my birthday is coming up.
10:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they expect somehow that joy is going to come out from that.
10:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really a good point.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Starting out with the right attitude and believing that you're worth celebrating.
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of, yeah, that's kind of what you're saying.
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Your mom raised you and your brother and sister to feel that you are worth celebrating.
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But even for people who didn't necessarily
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: have that and I'm not saying is that their parents didn't feel that they were were celebrating some people's parents just were not good planners, not good executors of plant.
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they had a great plan, couldn't execute the plan, right?
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have different skills.
11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think of your and your 30s, 40s, 56s.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time to re-own your birthday.
11:25
[SPEAKER_01]: it's okay if your mom or dad or whoever didn't celebrate your birthday of your college friends weren't great about celebrating your birthday if you were in your 30s and 40s and you didn't have a great birthday and you're in your 50s now 60s okay it's not too late throw yourself something have a 50 fifth
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: a hundred percent.
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom also, I want to say, was a really good model.
11:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, mom.
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't say, I remember my birthdays that much, but as I've discussed on this show before on my birthday, it's December 30th, which is just a weird time.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was trying to ever have you to make up for what I felt was a lifetime of forgotten birthday.
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that my parents forgot.
12:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I was almost always with my parents from, you know, zero to 18 or even college vacations.
12:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That was part of what was hard because in college you would do big things for people's birthdays but then I was back in Chicago, right?
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And then same during high school, everyone was away with their parents.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I was always with my parents and my sisters saying, you know, as you got older, sometimes we travel like it's a travel day back on my birthday and it's just how it is.
12:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have tried to kind of take my mom's attitude as when I have a big one, like a 40th or 30th or something.
12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I've thrown myself a party.
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And my mom has always thrown herself apart.
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: She just had her 80th birthday party last year.
12:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I've talked about it on the podcast before because I was so enamorizing that she had people at that party who I had never met before.
12:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know all her friends.
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: She had new friends too.
12:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So people from classes she's taken, which is why throwing yourself a birthday, however you're going to do it.
12:48
[SPEAKER_00]: is an opportunity to hundreds of people to do something really no matter the life stage it feels like I'm in sort of a fever pitch life stage of three on kids or three school age kids and whatever everyone is kind of in a fever pitch of life to their own degree.
13:04
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want people to celebrate your birthday, why don't you make it as easy as possible for them to do that?
13:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I love them.
13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And putting the planning on them or waiting or whatever that is, and that doesn't have to be even a party, the planning, it doesn't even have to be that just any way that you can lower barriers to get people to do what you want them to do, whatever that looks like for you, why wouldn't you taking the weight off of other people is a helpful thing?
13:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to review what it was like to receive your sign-up genius, so because we almost went through that too quickly on the receiving end, and several of us talked about it.
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked behind your back while we are at the events, your friends, and all of us, whether it was people I knew before or people I didn't.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We were like, isn't this amazing?
13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I get this sign-up genius, and I see all these options as the breakfast.
13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more like a coffee.
13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really fun coffee shop close to where Deborah and I both live, and it's more like where you order it at a counter and sit down.
13:56
[SPEAKER_01]: People could come in late.
13:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Deborah was very clear.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where I'm going to be from 8 to 9 30, whatever it was.
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So stop by when you can't.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So people could come before work.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people did.
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They were dressed for work and went right to work.
14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was the Majon option at the lunch option.
14:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And even the Majon, I was very clear.
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like FYI, you need to know how to play Majon.
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, this is not a teaching non-jong.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, there's other times for that.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is a, you must already come to play.
14:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to play.
14:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
14:25
[SPEAKER_01]: No, again, but being clear and expectations, then the launch option, the cooking option, as I mentioned in the intro, Tepra has this amazing Instagram.
14:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's always cooking people are interested in it.
14:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this was an opportunity for her friends to actually see live and be part of it.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We all cooked.
14:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so much fun.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You had dinner with your family, but there was this one other option you didn't mention earlier, which is Deborah also had an option for Saturday morning for a brunch at her house for people who, you know, were working all day or out of town or couldn't do it, and you were very clear it's okay to come to this, even if you came to other stuff, and I wasn't able to come sanity, but I came to two of the things on your actual birthday, and I wanted to come to more.
15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I could.
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it was so fun and it was so fun to see who did what it was surprised me Only in the positive way of people who I thought maybe would not a bad way, but maybe look for okay What's the one thing to do like testify for all the yeah?
15:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll stop by for a quick coffee and say happy birthday or not or whatever We're I'm gonna do coffee and then I'm gonna come back for cooking and then I'm gonna come back for brunch or whatever and it was like wow People do want to gather more than
15:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We think and I think that's another thing that holds people back is that people don't want to put anyone out.
15:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to make people feel like they have to.
15:37
[SPEAKER_00]: People are so busy.
15:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they really have time to celebrate my birthday?
15:41
[SPEAKER_00]: All of that is true and you don't want to put people out or make it, like I said earlier, don't make the bar so high that it's let's spend the whole day together the whole weekend.
15:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think they have a little faith that people do want to see you.
15:54
[SPEAKER_00]: They do want to hang out and they maybe just don't know how.
15:57
[SPEAKER_00]: is really the way to lead into it.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you go in being like no one even wants to, again, it sort of makes you not want to.
16:04
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go in assuming that people want to, they sense that energy, and then they do want to.
16:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Well speaking of the people who come now, I do want to talk more about something you have done and you've done this on your other birthdays, too.
16:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just your 45th.
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: you have this attitude.
16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also a unique, but I think people can learn from it.
16:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't decide for other people.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, these people will get along better with these ones, so I should only have the moms I know from baseball.
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I should only have the people I grew up with.
16:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I should only have a certain kind of family work friends or something.
16:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't do that.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You kind of have this attitude of like, hey, everyone's an adult, you can figure out how to get along with someone for an hour and a half to hours, whatever it is.
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you are very inviting literally you invite people, but also just everything about your very inviting, but you also are not controlling about it.
16:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You introduce people.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hi, this is Maggie from Basel.
16:50
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Nina who I always talk about with the podcast, like that kind of thing.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
16:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
16:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not Maggie a few times though.
16:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you're kind of like, OK, people I've liked for various reasons, I'm pretty sure you'll get along.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what I also appreciate, Deborah?
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: There isn't this expectation that any of us are going to hang out outside of your events.
17:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that we wouldn't.
17:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure I would like a lot of your friends.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course I do because you chose them.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like you so much.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have faith in your friends.
17:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't choose who's going to come to what you
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: or not.
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% it's two really different things that you just talked about.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: One is just having some faith in people that they'll get along.
17:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very lucky.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that some people have two people in their lives that can't maybe necessarily be in the same room or you know any of that.
17:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very lucky to not have anything like that.
17:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's much more common.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: People just worrying about awkwardness but that person doesn't know that person and I don't know why it is
17:47
[SPEAKER_00]: things.
17:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said this on my birthday, English language doesn't have words sometimes for all the things that happen to us as humans.
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I want there to be a word when you have two people in your life that you feel very close to and then you realize they don't know each other and it's like, wait, you don't know you.
18:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That's wild to me.
18:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to meet.
18:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It is one of my very favorite feelings,
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I know exactly the moment you were talking about and I love it too and I think I'm just going to two both of our horns here.
18:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the work connectors.
18:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we both have a mindset of abundance.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I admire the way you've done your birthday and I'm going to do that more because I have all the sort of emotional skills that to do that.
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I do have a feeling of abundance.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really expect people to plan for me.
18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a year to think about my 50th.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not sure what I want to do, but this sign-up genius thing is really motivating to me.
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I want a huge party.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I might want to do these little one-offs, and I love it.
18:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, letting people decide if they're coming in me, not deciding.
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I also kind of like that you did just women.
18:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it does.
18:50
[SPEAKER_00]: cut down on the, but none of those people know each other.
18:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna say one thing that was completely unexpected, 100% not planned.
19:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Nina was there at the coffee.
19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, let's go around and everyone just say, who you are and how you know me, I asked everyone to say what was the best part of their 45th year.
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So we just have all of us, I should have like,
19:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember.
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, yeah.
19:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So we tried.
19:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a facilitator at heart.
19:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can't resist a good icebreaker.
19:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, when we started the person to my left whose name is Jenny was like, I am adding something and I'm going to say my favorite part about Deborah.
19:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that she did this.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I could not gremore her doing that with your birthday.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
19:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so, so, so nice of her.
19:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But the one I'm going to point out is there was a, I'm going to name everyone by name in case they listen.
19:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Katie, these are all such common names that they still get to remain completely anonymous.
19:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Katie said, my favorite part about you is that you never gatekeep.
19:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You just share everything.
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I never really thought about that ever, but it's true, and it's part of even with my recipes, even with, oh my god, you have to buy this kitchen tool or these very softeth leisure pants.
19:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to tell people things that I find to be awesome.
20:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And that, of course, extends the most to people in my life because even more than my very sophomorey pants, I enjoy my friends.
20:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I love connecting the people.
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that no gatekeeping mentality is a huge reason that this is not hard for me.
20:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like Mina has said to me, there's just more room in the tent.
20:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Just come on in.
20:25
[SPEAKER_00]: There's more room.
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: What am I saving this information for?
20:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Who am I saving these friends for other than each other?
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: that was something I had never even thought about until she reflected it to me.
20:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful and I guess to help other people out and then we're going to move on to another source bat for people's birthdays is if you were not raised with the sense of abundance to try to cultivate it in yourself and I think the way you do that you might need help for professional really because some people with that scarcity mindset I mean it's really ingrained.
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a real fear that
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: people will leave you out if you introduce them or you won't get back as much as you give all of these things are worth working on because throughout your entire life you will hopefully be in a position to meet new people and accept new people into your life, introduce people to each other.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's worth working on the skill, everyone, of trying to have more faith in the people around you that they will include you, that they will
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: enjoy each other and if they don't find it's just a few hours or this is to extend me on birthdays to have faith in the people in your life which brings us to the next issue and it's something I have had to fight in myself too is when you're playing your own birthday I've seen it with my mom she plans her own birthday I've planned mine I've planned my husband's big birthday and then like sometimes I'll see a text went around and everyone's gonna go meet breakfast for so-and-so's 50th birthday something like that and I'm like that must be nice we
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: that must be nice.
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I could go for my 40th.
21:46
[SPEAKER_01]: He threw me a surprise party.
21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually planned my own party and then through unfortunate family events.
21:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We had to cancel that party.
21:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he buys a surprise replanted for six months later.
21:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So it truly was a surprise.
21:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I was not expecting to celebrate my 40th and May.
22:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still sad that we weren't friends at that time and our lives because I know about that party and I'm like, why was I not there?
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: We did not know each other yet.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It's different.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We probably met like the next year or something.
22:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We still like one or two years later.
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, same thing.
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be on the receiving end of other people's text and stuff.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, we're taking out so and so for their 40th and again.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I find it, I'll still plan my own stuff for my feet too, but I will admit that a little part of me and I know I have listeners and readers who feel this way, which is, I plan my own thing.
22:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I also have to host somebody else's thing, I know that's very non-abundance of me.
22:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's work that out because people are suffering with this and I understand it bugs a little.
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I do understand that and a couple things, this is, and I know you're going to link the episode, but this is a little something we talked about in the episode from a few years ago about, I host in my house in absolute, I would call it an extreme amount, and I love that.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea that I would feel annoyed that they are not then having me to their house, what I think I said something in that episode is like, there's something weird about just
23:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Weird reciprocation expectation versus if I was like, look, I knit you a sweater.
23:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That is my skill.
23:15
[SPEAKER_00]: The other person wouldn't be like, well, now I must learn how to knit and knit you a sweater.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, that's so weird.
23:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, it's not.
23:21
[SPEAKER_01]: She said it then and it's so it still smells so true now.
23:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
23:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be insane.
23:26
[SPEAKER_00]: and just some people are just great at hosting, inviting, they love it, and some people aren't.
23:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like knitting or anything else.
23:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's a skill and sometimes it's not.
23:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like a weird reciprocation expectation.
23:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would say, I not only...
23:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, plan my own party.
23:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like I've planned a party for every person that came to my birthday, but I have for a handful of them.
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I have planned different things.
23:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I would never expect reciprocation to be like, I planned you a party.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you plan the party.
23:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say the only time that I feel a little bit is when people just don't show up.
24:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I'm oak, I don't, I can expect them to be like me, but if I invite, and again, not like, I plan to do a part of you can show up.
24:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Not those now people who are listening.
24:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be like, oh, shoot, did I show up?
24:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not what I mean.
24:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, I totally get that there are going to be people who are going to be busy on my birthday.
24:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That is 100% normal fine, whatever, and they'll tell me, I'm out of town, but there are definitely people who just don't make the effort don't come at all.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so while I did they give you a reason in cases like through the years.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't just be your 40-foot There's not showing up and just being like, oops, I'm busy and there's Send me a couple pictures and how was it and hauling on the phone.
24:45
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many ways to show up beyond just coming I could not agree with that more and so yes all of that counts is showing up to me I have a very low bar for what it is to show up.
24:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what that says about me You sent a couple questions ahead of this podcast and one of them is you ever feel resentment and my first reaction was never
25:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, that's not totally true.
25:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It is when you feel like you put out the effort over and over, and it's not that they don't do the same, but that they don't come.
25:13
[SPEAKER_00]: However, that looks to that person.
25:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not just birthdays.
25:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That could be in any way, shape or form, to come to your family event, to come to your
25:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it is, I mean, I really, whoever came up with the saying that's 90% of life is just showing up, it is unbelievable to me how that is proven over and over and over.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: When I am wondering, should I go to this funeral, even should I go to the thing that's in your backyard, and all of those things, sometimes the lead up to it, you're like, do I unbelievable how much it means to people to just show up?
25:44
[SPEAKER_01]: They're feeling you had when you sent out the sign of genius and you're a very confident person who's throwing a lot of things you know people tend to come for the most part even you felt that way So the average person we can imagine anytime they plant something anything.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It does have that feeling.
25:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah Will people come to they want to come?
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, it means so much and those are for the happy things and and for the unfortunate things like when you can
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: always best to show up when you can because there are going to be times and you legitimately can't.
26:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You're out of town.
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of that you can't plan.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: My point is, since you can't plan all the times you won't be able to show up, if you can and you just don't feel like it, you really should go.
26:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there are going to be moments when you actually can't.
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this is a topic that you bring up when it comes to like, I'm always the one who reaches out.
26:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always all of those things.
26:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's just talk about showing up is so at this sign-up genius.
26:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I sent the email out to maybe 26 people.
26:34
[SPEAKER_00]: 25 for easy math.
26:36
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm expecting them to come, let's say that throughout this whole year, I would have had to show up for each of them three or four times.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, that's a hundred show-ups.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot, actually.
26:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just feels like people are like, why am I always showing up for others?
26:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a lot of people.
26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And to only show up a couple times for each friend a year adds up to a lot.
26:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just simple math.
26:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it adds up to a lot of showing up for friends if you want them to show up.
27:01
[SPEAKER_00]: when you want them to show up.
27:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, of course, I don't do those things to be very clear.
27:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not like, I better go to this thing so they'll show up at my coffee shop.
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, that is not the motivation.
27:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to do it because you want to do it.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is how it comes back to you.
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when it feels off balance, it's actually sort of mathematically not.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I want to use this also to remind people we mentioned it before the word opportunity.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Your birthday as an opportunity.
27:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned 25, 26 people.
27:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Not every single person you invite to everything, as I've been there.
27:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I myself have been the recipient of this when we were first friends.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Is your closest closest friend?
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Your first party I probably came to.
27:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That invitation was the thing that told me, oh, we're becoming closer friends of what we weren't already, besties like we are now.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the overture.
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember being at a birthday,
27:50
[SPEAKER_01]: lunch that your mom I believe for you your mom I love her so much, you know, you made the list obviously there's a long time ago But we had a restaurant in a big deal.
27:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
27:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that was forever ago.
28:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember sitting with somebody at one of your events for your 45th and I know you're on the new where is she I mean not new, but she's been in your life forever
28:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember thinking, oh, that was me seven years ago.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is an opportunity to be inviting.
28:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I want to tell you about my assistant producer, Rebecca, and the way she and her friends do their birthday, because it's very different than what you and I are saying.
28:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it's what people are hoping for, but it is not that common.
28:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But I still want to acknowledge that maybe this is the kind of stuff some people are seeing and expecting.
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And this episode should show you that it is one way, but it's not the only way the other ways to do it yourself.
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a group of about eight.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And they all have other friends too.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: This eight has come together around birthdays.
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this whole thing which just me out, I'm like, what about person's good friend over here?
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they expect to be invited.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: don't know how that works.
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's either, and they do something pretty adventurous or creative for each person's birthday.
28:56
[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of think about what the person's into and they try to really make a different every time.
29:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So for one person, they went to a trap peas class.
29:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Some other examples that I liked, they did some sort of event for Rebecca's friend Ellen.
29:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Ellen reminds me of you.
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Very generous.
29:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Always thinking of other people what Ellen brought to that dinner.
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a birthday
29:15
[SPEAKER_01]: She brought a kind of an over-style, her favorite things, wrapped up for everyone else, and it was kind of like a white elephant.
29:23
[SPEAKER_01]: People got to open something to trade and it seems like exactly the kind of thing you would do.
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to do that.
29:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, Mark that down for 46.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Ellen made these clipboards.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone behind me because we're back and I did a live event Chicago which you came to and Ellen just as a friend to Rebecca and listen to the podcast made us these clipboards.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: She says like a generous spirit.
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I love this idea that even if someone does plan your birthday that you can still bring something to it.
29:48
[SPEAKER_01]: They did a theme around books the eight girls asked.
29:51
[SPEAKER_01]: the birthday girl, what her five favorite books were, and then everyone left with those five books.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And they think all pull together to do this stuff.
29:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's themes, what to wear, maybe one year everyone had to wear pink.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really creative.
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I will acknowledge this is the kind of stuff that makes other people kind of throw up their hands and go forget it.
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: No one's ever going to do that for me.
30:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why we're just saying don't wait.
30:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it for yourself.
30:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I obviously don't know anything about the demographics of who listens to this podcast, but if I'm going to guess a lot of us grew up watching the show friends.
30:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I have actually written an essay about this.
30:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I spent a lot of my life looking for my group of six people.
30:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I've maybe had it once or twice in my life that it's like this group.
30:31
[SPEAKER_00]: and we get together every time.
30:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But in general, that's not been my life experience.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I know some people absolutely that is their experience.
30:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, I have, these are my three favorite dance moms that I love to sit with all weekend long drinking coffee.
30:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is even like my favorite client who I love hanging out.
30:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just have more, I sort of think of it as just circles that are some of them overlap and some of them don't.
30:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And some it's like a scatter plot.
30:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just how my friendship journey has gone.
31:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's more common than friends, the sitcom.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Back to the topic of this podcast is, if that is your situation, which is most people's, asking someone else to plan a party is a very big challenge.
31:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Because baseball mom doesn't know client.
31:17
[SPEAKER_00]: lady.
31:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And so to be like, let me give you her number.
31:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, lower the barrier.
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard for us to recognize we're not in this neat circle of friends.
31:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very difficult to expect anyone else to be able to show up or plan the birthday that you might want as well as you can.
31:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
31:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And one other thing Rebecca and I spoke about was and she totally acknowledged that it's not that common to have but she has she loves the idea to have a birthday as an opportunity to set the tone in your friendships.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't want to plan a bigger event and a bigger event can even be eight people is like bigger than just one on one.
31:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: People should set the tone if you want your birthday to be a certain way you have to set the tone and it doesn't have to be throwing a party if you want people to take you out on your birthday.
31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You're kind of looking around.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going, Guy mentioned earlier, you know, with my husband where he gets this text over meeting for so and so it's worth it, you might need to set the tone and reach out to people.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like to take you out for your birthday.
32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Just one on one, I'm not talking on planning on event.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we're stepping away from the event concept and it's.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You know you have someone's 50th birthday coming up.
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You kind of know you're turning 50 and a couple years.
32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you would like to set the tone that it would be nice to have lunch with people here and there.
32:20
[SPEAKER_01]: One off coffee is whatever.
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you set the tone.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Now don't have the expectation that's going to be 100% reciprocated because as we've talked about a lot that often doesn't happen, but maybe three of the 10 people you have reached out to over the past couple years will kind of realize.
32:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's your birthday coming up.
32:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me take you out for lunch or coffee or sometimes another thing that's nice around birthdays is if you do have a birthday around the same time as someone else, a really nice thing to do.
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I started doing this with three of my friends who have winter birthdays.
32:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We started a ritual last year.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I started, I should say, it was my February challenge in 2025 to start a ritual.
32:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I started a ritual of winter birthdays.
32:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I reach out to my friend who has a November and to have December.
33:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're all paying.
33:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We're splitting it by four.
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not going out four separate times for four separate people.
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels a little more efficient to be honest.
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of cool.
33:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're all born under the same season.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's another idea is celebrate a few people at once.
33:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not on your birthday though.
33:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It might not be exactly what you want.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just trying to come up with other ways people can approach their birthday.
33:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a great point.
33:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It was funny.
33:28
[SPEAKER_00]: The day after my birthday, I happened to be in an event.
33:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was a woman there who has my same birthday.
33:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we were like, how was your birthday?
33:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were both like, gotta have the best birthday ever.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she described her first.
33:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, we are very different people.
33:42
[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, I took a walk in nature.
33:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I went out with my daughter and then that night I got to see my grandchild in their Halloween costume and to her that was the dream what I described my sign of genius that is like absolutely way too much for most people who are not extremely extroverted all of the things that I know I am extreme on your point of you don't have to plan a party all of this stuff we're talking about is equally as relevant to say I would like to have lunch with one friend on my birthday
34:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So invite the friend to lunch on birthday, right?
34:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't necessarily wait for that one friend, even even your best friend.
34:20
[SPEAKER_00]: To invite you because they might not know what you want to do on your birthday, or they assume you're busy or whatever, it is the same thing.
34:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether or not you want to have a one big party for eighty, four parties of eight people, or literally coffee with one friend.
34:34
[SPEAKER_00]: you can still do the initiating on your birthday.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess maybe it feels now that I'm thinking about it even more awkward than to say on planning a party for myself.
34:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it even feels more awkward or vulnerable to be like Nina will you do lunch with me on my birthday.
34:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see how that might feel a little awkward, but I think on the receiving end of that invitation, I would feel so honored and touched.
34:57
[SPEAKER_00]: even more than probably the inviteies to my party who I spread the tent very very wide.
35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And so just thinking about that, that it's okay if it's just one person.
35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if a party is not your jam.
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And to ask for what you want, it comes up a lot in this podcast.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually it's related to a topic.
35:12
[SPEAKER_01]: that came up in episode, I believe it's 140 and 170 when we talked about knowing how your friends want to be comforted and you might not like the same thing.
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So really quick, the example on that is my poor friend who's had this example used like three times now on the podcast is that there she doesn't like and she let me know.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I should let me know because it's my nature to respond this way because it's how I like to be responded to when she is something going on.
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always like, oh, how annoying I'm so sorry that's so frustrating.
35:37
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm annoyed about something, you better be annoyed too.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I want you to be like, oh, that's the worst.
35:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's not the worst, even if I'm being unreasonable.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: She really actually would prefer something more uplifting.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be okay.
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You got this.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's totally valid her wanting that is totally valid and also it gave me the opportunity when she was I probably had done it for 20 years and finally she's like, you know, can I just let you know that I'd really appreciate it if you would respond this way.
36:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So that she said that.
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you got really good friends, many more decades now.
36:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, but it gave me the opportunity to be like, okay, but just so you know, if you ever respond to me that way, I will.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You better be like, I had exploded emojis.
36:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I want thumbs down.
36:15
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a term that's very big right now.
36:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the platinum rule instead of the golden rule, which is the golden rule.
36:22
[SPEAKER_00]: has been around for a very long time, which is due unto others that you want on unto yourself.
36:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We realize that's actually not very relevant.
36:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You should do unto others as they want done unto themselves.
36:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really matter what you'd want.
36:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like yeah, who cares?
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's important to think about the recipient more than, well, well, how would I want to be treated in this situation?
36:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult, right?
36:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, none of us are mind readers.
36:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So often the easiest thing is to think,
36:48
[SPEAKER_00]: How would I feel, but that pausing sometimes and think, I mean, even my husband's birthday is five days after mine, he is very different person than I am.
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And what he wants on his birthday, he wants me to go and teaking with him in Hopkins, Minnesota.
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not how I'd want to spend my, but I'm thrilled to do that with him.
37:07
[SPEAKER_00]: The communicating your needs.
37:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how it be.
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I was connecting it to the birthday for that to communicate your needs.
37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love your idea that if you want to be with one person on your birthday,
37:17
[SPEAKER_01]: invite them and I don't even know exactly how I'm going to title this episode.
37:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I usually title them after I've edited the whole thing.
37:23
[SPEAKER_01]: By then I really know the material well, but just off the top of my head, what I'm feeling is set the tone for your birthday.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It is up to you.
37:31
[SPEAKER_01]: As an adult, you get to set the tone and it's time to stop.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe dwelling about the birthdays that weren't and turning over a new leaf.
37:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the setting the tone is what we were saying about
37:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, birthdays.
37:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You're set in the tone.
37:47
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're going to get.
37:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Part of it is, what do I want to do on my birthday?
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hang out with these people.
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll plan it, but even before that is your attitude about your birthday, that is going to be how you end up feeling at the end of it.
38:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It was beautiful.
38:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we can end on that, ever.
38:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I love I love talking to you in a professional capacity and no, because we can go forever.
38:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm determined to figure out a way to make December 30th of the thing some year in our lives that we will just have to the accumulation of the last 10 birthdays that never really were for you.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I'd ever had like that ever.
38:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody ways to find Deborah on Instagram you will love her Instagram.
38:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That's at for the love of cookbooks, but the link will be directly in the show notes on whatever after listening in right now.
38:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Come back next week when our friendships are going well, we are happy you're all around.
38:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
38:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
38:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you listeners.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I often have a discussion thread going for each episode in my Facebook group that's at Dior Nina the group and find me on social media on Instagram and TikTok at Dior Nina Friendship and finally on the newsletter there is lots of friendship advice.
38:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I do the anonymous letters that people write to me there as well as other fun book picks and TV picks and just friendship discussions of all kinds.
39:00
[SPEAKER_01]: That is at DiorNina.subsaq.com.
39:03
[SPEAKER_01]: See you next week.