Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Misty Copsey: Puyallup's Dark History | Pt. 2

Transcript

Misty Copsey: Puyallup's Dark History | Pt. 2 · PNW Haunts & Homicides

0:00
If law enforcement was aware of this aspect of her background, did that play a role in
0:06
how dismissive they were initially in her case?
0:10
Did they assume that Misty was a runaway because of her tribal connection?
0:16
Whether this information was known at the onset of the case or not, or how it might have
0:21
worked for or against Misty, and those searching for her feels almost irrelevant in any case.
0:29
[Music]
0:38
Hi Cassie!
0:39
Hi Caitlyn!
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I'm looking at you!
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I'm looking at you!
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Is it weird?
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So weird!
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Wait, do we need to like, side-eye each other?
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I'm not used to seeing you from this angle!
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I know!
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What are you seeing?
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I hope this is my good side.
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It was straight on!
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Oh my God!
0:58
What?
0:59
She's oddly silent!
1:00
I'm like, oh this is my good side and she's like, if I say nothing, I'm not a liar!
1:05
Well, hi creepy people!
1:08
If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides.
1:15
Where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.
1:21
Did you notice I pointed to the wrong people?
1:24
You said true crime and I did this and you said spooky and I did that.
1:28
That was wrong.
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We're opposite.
1:30
It was not correct.
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It was totally wrong.
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Yeah.
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We know it's not wrong.
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What?
1:36
Doing a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic
1:40
for the day.
1:41
That's true.
1:42
That's true.
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Very true.
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So stick around if you don't think that is wrong also.
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Yeah.
1:47
A stooot observation, my good co-host.
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Thank you.
1:50
Okay, so we were trying to cheer us and the internet died because cheers to new office space.
2:00
That was kind of cute.
2:01
You could see our blurry hands go into each other's frame.
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Yeah.
2:05
I liked it.
2:06
I liked it.
2:07
We do have something very special to do before we start.
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We have a VIP Patreon chat.
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I was like, I was looking at her and was like, "She forgot.
2:18
She forgot.
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She forgot.
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I was like, "What's the thing?"
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I can't take anymore.
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Surprise.
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Yeah.
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My body was literally about to reject whatever was coming.
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Oh my goodness.
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Okay.
2:33
Well, we have Amanda who joined the...
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Is it she is thick?
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She is.
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She thick.
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She thick.
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With two C's.
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And I like it.
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That's the tear that she's.
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I don't think that's correct.
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I think isn't it?
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And I love it.
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Oh, she thick and I love it.
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Damn it.
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I fucked it up, you guys.
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Whatever.
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Love like same thing.
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This is about Amanda.
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Okay.
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We need to give her her VIP treatment.
3:00
Okay.
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We're going to send her a bottle of champagne, talk that covers strawberries, rose petals,
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to spread on your bed, some bubble bath.
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Not really.
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Just kidding.
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Okay.
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I was like, "Huh.
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That's interesting.
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I think we have a lot, some budget that I was completely unaware of."
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I wish.
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Yeah.
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Well, that's, I mean, that's really the best promotion for Patreon if I've ever heard it.
3:30
I mean, we should start sending them to.
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Yeah.
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I mean, if we would, if only there were more VIPs.
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Yeah.
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And if thousands, I think probably is the more thicker, more thickerness in the VIP section
3:49
over here.
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Yeah.
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We're very, very lucky to have the Patreon members that we do, but if you can help us grow
3:56
and have more, that'd be so cool.
3:59
We do love you.
4:01
Yeah.
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I literally moved for you.
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Yes.
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She did.
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Yeah.
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Just for you, Amanda.
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We did this just for you.
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Just for you.
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You're so cool.
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And Amanda has the thickest heart I've ever seen.
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Oh, I like what you did there.
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I like it.
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I like it.
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I like it to lull.
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Do you like it or do you love it?
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I love it.
4:29
Seem thing.
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Well, Amanda, you have to let us know if you like or love your VIP treatment because those are your only options.
4:36
To like or love it.
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Yep.
4:39
Sorry to teach you about the champagne in the boat.
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Yeah.
4:44
I always rude.
4:45
Should we get into the episode?
4:48
Yeah.
4:49
Let's do it.
4:50
Part two.
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Okay.
4:52
I'm ready for it.
4:53
Okay.
4:54
I can't remember what part one was about.
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Let's go.
4:57
Well, so here's the thing.
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Is my notes start?
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And this is, I'm reading them directly.
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Cassie.
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Yes.
5:04
Yes.
5:05
Okay.
5:06
Okay.
5:07
So I didn't put this in, but now I feel like time has really magnified the, I don't even know the word.
5:21
Is it irritation or I've got a bone to pick with you.
5:27
With me.
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Yeah.
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What did I do?
5:30
Yeah.
5:31
I know.
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I was like, "Oh, we're in the boat."
5:34
I'm sorry.
5:35
I'm sorry.
5:36
I'm sorry.
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I'm sorry.
5:38
I'm sorry.
5:39
I didn't know you had a sportsing joke.
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You did?
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Because I told you I was like, "Oh, remind me.
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We have a sportsing joke."
5:43
Oh, no.
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At the end.
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Okay.
5:46
I'm sorry.
5:47
I'm sorry.
5:48
Yeah.
5:49
Well, it's fine.
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Will you ever forgive me?
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I mean, I already have it.
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Like, I didn't care that much.
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Okay.
5:54
So it's actually just kind of a sportsing meme.
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More than anything.
6:00
So it's a meme.
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A what?
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A meme.
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A meme.
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So it's a, it was a, when I first saw this several years ago, it was just a bottle of
6:13
clone and something like.
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Well, so that's what I'm getting to.
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That's what I'm getting to.
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So it actually said, like somebody just photoshopped on like a label and it says, "Romo
6:25
Cologne."
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And it looks like it's supposed to be like in a magazine and it's supposed to be like a cologne,
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like ad.
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And their tagline says, "You wear it.
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The other guy scores."
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Listen, if you were a Cowboys fan.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
6:48
Well, anyways.
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I had to at least try to get a giggle in before we started because obviously this is
6:55
going to be a really dark story or series of stories in part two.
7:01
We're all going to learn so much about Puyallup and some of the surrounding areas.
7:07
It might just be coming out of our ears by the end.
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I don't want anything coming out of my ears except for earwax.
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I was like, "Do you want stuff coming out of your ears?"
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Period.
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They're the only earwax because that makes it clean.
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So that's fine.
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Okay.
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And then you could hear what happens.
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Okay.
7:27
I felt like I just rambled on for five minutes.
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I don't think it was five minutes, but that was impressive.
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In November of 1992, King County officials announced they would be reopening the Green River
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Killer Case.
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Both the press and locals wondered if authorities suspected the yet unknown killer in the cases
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of Kim Delange from Sumner, Washington and Anna.
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Okay.
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These are some names here.
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Chebetnoy, Puyallup.
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We're going to go with that.
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I trust you.
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Following their disappearances from the Puyallup area, both girls would sadly be deferred
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dead.
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Oh.
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I mean, I kind of saw a comment that I hate it still.
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Yeah.
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Don't like it.
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The 15 was killed in July of 1988.
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Aww.
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Then Anna 14 was killed in August of 1990.
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Damn.
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I just feel like the whole month of my birth should be kind of excluded from anything
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nefarious.
8:45
Yeah.
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Good luck with that.
8:47
Yeah.
8:48
No.
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I'm just saying, I don't know.
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It upsets me.
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It upsets me when anyone dies from murder.
8:58
Yeah.
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But I really hate that.
9:01
Yeah.
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When I was born, I know.
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Boo.
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An interview with the King County homicide detective would later reveal that his investigation
9:13
was operating under the assumption that like the previous two disappearances of teenage
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girls from the Puyolip area, it was unlikely that Misty Copsey would be found alive.
9:28
Did you say unlikely?
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Yes.
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Aww.
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I was like, I was hoping that you were going to say like, "What are you doing?"
9:34
You said likely, didn't you?
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Right.
9:37
No.
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Okay.
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The same detective, along with many others, noted that there were two years and one month
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between each of the disappearances.
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Kimberly was last seen in July 1988, Anna in August 1990, and Misty in September 1992.
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Where?
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788-8992.
10:03
Oh, there's a lot of numbers you just spit out at me.
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I was kind of trained to present it both ways like in alpha and also numeric form because
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I know people's brains kind of process information differently, but the important thing to take
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away is like I said, two years and one month between each of the disappearances.
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Is that 25 months?
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Yes.
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Okay.
10:33
Yeah, I did do the math first.
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I was like, "Who 13?"
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And I was like, "Oh shit, she said two years."
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Yeah.
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12.
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Times 2 plus 1.
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Do you know what would really make me just like comprehend it a little better is if you
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told it to me?
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And it's a whiteboard?
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Yeah, whiteboard, but in you wrote it in Roman numerals for me.
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Oh, yeah, that won't ever happen.
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Not a million years.
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Mostly because I don't know how.
11:00
This strong suspicion that Misty was probably already dead wouldn't come to light until
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well after searchers found clothing linked to Misty in 1993.
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They were the articles of clothing Misty was believed to have been wearing at the time
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of her disappearance.
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Aww, that's not a good sign.
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No.
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The detective also believed that Misty was killed by the same person who killed Anna and
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Kimberly.
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The bodies of Anna and Kimberly had been discovered along the south side of Highway
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410 near Enumclaw around mile marker #30.
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There remains only roughly a hundred feet apart, chillingly also in very close proximity
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to this site is where Misty's clothing would later be found.
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Oh, yeah, there's a lot of things like connecting it.
12:02
I was going to ask is it just because it was the two years and one month apart or was there
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more things?
12:09
Yeah.
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It's also such close proximity.
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So getting into super nitty gritty details, these are young women kind of that fit a similar
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profile, so to speak.
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And yeah, so I feel like it would be silly not to at least consider the idea that they
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might be linked.
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Yeah.
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Yikes.
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The baggy acid wash jeans Misty had borrowed from her mother and other clothing items were
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found in the area and that marked the end of hope for Diana, her mother.
13:00
No.
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I just like wanted to cling to the cool acid wash.
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I know.
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I just like that she borrowed from her mom.
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She borrowed from her.
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And they were too big.
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Oh, I love it.
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They hung off of her.
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So that's like so cool though in the 90s.
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Oh, God.
13:17
Yeah.
13:18
Yeah.
13:19
I used to borrow my mom's clothes sometimes because I liked like, oh, yeah.
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Oh, yeah.
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And I still get close and are too big.
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Yeah.
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These clothing items were proven to have been present for some time in the dirt.
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Which I think is worth noting because there was a lot of speculation about whether some
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of those clothing items based on the fact that they were found by a volunteer search party
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and they were found by Misty's mother, Diana and Cory Bober on a search part of that
14:00
group that was helping them.
14:02
Oh.
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It was also after one of the detectives had spent like six hours out there searching.
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And it's always possible that things get missed.
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But there was a lot of speculation that like, did they place these items there?
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Did the search party or did the detects, okay, inch, but like why would they do?
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Some people have speculated over the years that Misty was met with foul play at the hands
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of people very close to her.
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I don't think that over time that accusation or that, you know, theory of the case has,
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I mean, number one, it hasn't aged all that well because it's all based in, I would say,
14:58
really sort of derogatory stereotypes.
15:04
It just, there isn't really a whole lot of basis for it.
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Just in my own research.
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But it's a very strange case.
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Misty Copsey's case is really kind of a wild one.
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But yeah, that's one of the things that's come up over the years that I can't quite wrap
15:29
my head around how people really glom down to that one.
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It's really sad for the people that found it too.
15:38
Like her, her mom was in that group, right?
15:40
You said?
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Yeah.
15:42
Oh my God.
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And then to like be accused of that, it's terrible.
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Well, in from the beginning, she's not really been believed by law enforcement.
15:50
Yeah.
15:51
Oh.
15:52
Yeah.
15:53
I mean, that was a huge, that was, it's a huge criticism of the case and the, you know,
15:59
the investigation really from the jump because she had really a hell of a time trying to report
16:07
her child missing.
16:09
Yeah.
16:10
Hate it.
16:11
Yeah.
16:12
We don't love it.
16:13
Did we talk about that in part one or was?
16:15
Yeah, I think we did.
16:16
Okay.
16:17
Talk about that a little bit in part one.
16:18
We can't even begin about a little bit.
16:19
Yeah.
16:20
Okay.
16:21
Yeah.
16:22
And, you know, the tough thing is that like I get, if somebody has reported a child missing
16:27
before, you know, that if you have that familiarity with a family as law enforcement, you know,
16:36
it would be really hard not to let that color, you know, your experience with these people.
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But I, and I do think actually this rings about now that, you know, we're coming back to
16:47
this.
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We did talk about this in part one because one of the things that I, I'm almost positive
16:55
anyway, that I had mentioned was that she'd reported missing at one point.
17:04
And she never pulled off that report after she found her because she was like, oh, that's
17:09
embarrassing.
17:10
Right.
17:11
Everything was fine.
17:12
But they also never did any follow up.
17:17
Yeah.
17:18
This is months later.
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And as far as they know, she was still missing.
17:22
Right.
17:23
And that was true.
17:24
That was crazy.
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No investigation.
17:26
No follow up with the family.
17:29
Yeah.
17:30
That's not super comforting if you need to do it again either.
17:32
No.
17:33
No.
17:34
No.
17:35
I mean, this is a, it's a systemic issue that like they're not taking, you know, certain reports
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seriously.
17:42
Yeah.
17:43
But here's a question.
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How did a volunteer search party know to look in this area specifically?
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What are the odds that a civilian search would uncover?
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The currently missing girls close in that very spot because that's exactly what happened
18:04
apparently.
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It said that a civilian following the investigation was able to pump a source close to the case for
18:13
the location where the two bodies were discovered.
18:16
So that would be Anna and Kimberly when he visited the Amie's office.
18:22
That man was Corey Bober.
18:24
Boy, is he an interesting character?
18:27
Oh.
18:28
In this whole decades long debacle.
18:31
So the only reason that the civilian search party ended up there was because he pumped
18:37
somebody on the inside for information about where the bodies of those two girls were actually
18:44
found.
18:45
Okay.
18:46
I mean, that seems like really intense.
18:49
Yeah.
18:51
And he's a very intense guy.
18:53
I can't tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing.
18:56
I would say arguably maybe neither.
19:00
Okay.
19:01
So I'm picking up the vibe where it's like, yeah, it's just intense.
19:06
It's very intense.
19:07
It's like camping.
19:12
It was nearly two weeks after Misty's initial disappearance that a local sergeant met with
19:17
Diana at the junior high where he also spoke with some of Misty's peers.
19:25
After conducting these interviews, the sergeant informed Diana that Misty would no longer
19:30
be classified as a missing person, but as a runaway.
19:36
Because of what the other kid said.
19:38
Mm-hmm.
19:39
Okay.
19:40
Reliant the kids.
19:41
Mm-hmm.
19:42
Okay.
19:43
And not her close friends.
19:45
Which I think I'm going to say later, but I feel like I could say it three, four, five times
19:51
and it bears repeating.
19:53
It's, yeah, that's ridiculous.
19:56
Oh my God.
19:58
You see, unfortunately, there were stories relayed by some of Misty's classmates, stories
20:03
of having seen or spoken to her since her disappearance that were taken at face value.
20:10
Mm-hmm.
20:11
Okay.
20:12
That same sergeant even spoke to local media and news outlets to inform the community
20:19
that Misty was not considered a missing person, but rather a runaway.
20:26
Based off of what kids who didn't know her that well said because of like high school
20:32
rumors or whatever middle school you said, you are going to get so pissed here in a second.
20:37
Middle school is even worse.
20:39
No one knows what's going on.
20:41
No, you don't know your head from your ass.
20:44
It was a devastating blow for Diana in the case because she knew better, but no one
20:50
else seemed to agree.
20:53
The teens that were circulating rumors about seeing or hearing from Misty weren't even
20:58
good friends of hers.
21:01
One of the girls would later recant stating that she'd been hopeful it would somehow bring
21:09
her attention and maybe make her more popular.
21:13
Who?
21:15
The girl herself or Misty?
21:18
She wanted to get the attention from having seen or spoken to this girl who had gone missing.
21:26
That sounds exactly like what a fucking middle schooler would do.
21:30
Yeah.
21:31
Doesn't it?
21:32
I don't know.
21:33
Even in middle school, I just don't think that I could have done something like that.
21:37
I mean, there were things that happened when we were middle school, early high school that
21:42
were kind of similar.
21:43
And I don't know.
21:45
It just sounds like a shitty fucking little immature kid thing to do.
21:50
Yeah.
21:51
I mean, it does.
21:52
It does.
21:53
I just better than that.
21:54
We would never do anything like that.
21:55
You know, I think that there are just certain things that it's a maturity level.
22:01
I'm not coming from a place of like being, you know, holier than thou, but like, I think
22:08
from a fairly young age, there were just certain things that I understood that like, this
22:14
isn't a white lie.
22:16
Yeah.
22:17
You can't make things up about this type of a situation because it affects real people
22:26
in a very meaningful way.
22:29
Yeah.
22:30
I don't know.
22:31
Maybe that's naive of me to say now as, you know, a woman in her, you know, very early 30s.
22:39
We are so mature too.
22:41
So mature.
22:43
One girl claimed to have gotten a call from Misty, who was reportedly in Olympia at the time
22:49
of the call, though it's unclear why she would have been there.
22:55
There was another claim that Misty was seen at the Color Me Badd concert on September 21,
23:03
1992.
23:04
I went so far as to confirm that Color Me Badd was in fact at the Puyallup fairgrounds
23:11
on that date performing because to me, it seems fairly clear, at least in hindsight, that
23:17
both of these stories were bullshit.
23:21
Yeah.
23:22
And I really wanted to know.
23:23
I really wanted to know was Color Me Badd even in the state of Washington?
23:29
Yeah.
23:30
They sound cool.
23:31
I wanted to know who they are.
23:32
I want to listen to some songs later.
23:35
Okay.
23:36
Yeah.
23:37
Was that even her type of music, though?
23:39
Like, do you know any of that?
23:40
I have no idea.
23:41
I think that's interesting.
23:43
At that point in time, even if they weren't like your favorite, the fact that they were
23:50
in Puyallup, you probably would have gone if you were a teenager.
23:55
That's true.
23:56
Like what is going on?
23:58
Yeah.
23:59
Yeah.
24:00
Very much.
24:01
Yeah.
24:02
But yeah, no, I mean, it doesn't make sense because it doesn't.
24:10
You can't make the puzzle piece as fit.
24:13
No, you can't.
24:15
It's like somebody who's already been missing for several days and this is, you know, a kid
24:20
that just, I'm sorry, but I just don't, I don't see her going missing.
24:27
Her just disappearing and, you know, not being in contact with her family.
24:35
Yeah.
24:36
That's going to circle back.
24:37
Well, even if she did run away, like, and then she went to like a concert in public where
24:43
she knows people are looking for her.
24:45
I mean, I assume if she was a run away, she would know people were looking for her.
24:49
Right.
24:50
So you wouldn't go to like a public concert in the same town that you are missing from.
24:54
You wouldn't think.
24:55
Yeah.
24:56
Even a teenager, I feel like would be, you know, come on.
25:02
You got to be smarter than that.
25:05
Around this time, relatively early on in the investigation is when Diana found an unlikely
25:11
ally in Coery Bober.
25:15
So we've already kind of broached the topic of the Bober.
25:19
Of the Bober.
25:20
Yeah.
25:21
Not to be confused with the Bebes.
25:23
Definitely not.
25:24
Not the same guy.
25:25
That is all totally different.
25:28
Totally different dude.
25:32
There was a part of her that was relieved to find someone, anyone that was just as relentless
25:40
in pursuing answers in the case.
25:43
Are you going to tell us like who this guy is and why he cares?
25:48
Well, a bit.
25:49
Okay.
25:50
Yeah.
25:51
I'm just like super interested on like that is his connection to this thing's person.
25:54
No, it's a thing.
25:55
It's a thing.
25:56
It's he, it leaves you wondering for sure.
26:00
Yeah.
26:01
Oh boy.
26:04
For his part, Corey Bober was really more relentless about his particular theory in relation
26:11
to the Green River serial killer case.
26:14
Okay.
26:15
I mean, okay.
26:19
He believed that the man who killed all three of the girls was a former Puyallup resident
26:27
who he was also adamant was the Green River killer.
26:32
Okay.
26:33
Starting to click a little bit.
26:37
That man while later convicted for sex crimes perpetrated against a child was not by anyone's
26:45
estimation, the Green River killer.
26:49
Well, I mean, anyone other than Corey Bober, that is.
26:54
He is not letting that go.
26:57
Really?
26:58
Really?
26:59
Still like to this day.
27:00
Yes.
27:01
Really?
27:02
Yeah.
27:03
Yes.
27:04
I mean, I haven't seen anything that's like up to like yesterday or--
27:11
Yeah.
27:12
But--
27:13
To this very day.
27:14
But yes.
27:15
Yeah.
27:16
I don't think he's ever letting that go.
27:18
His name was Randall Dean Achziger.
27:21
Achziger.
27:22
You know what?
27:24
Really?
27:25
Does it matter?
27:26
No.
27:27
But here we go.
27:28
The men had become acquainted in the early 1980s.
27:33
So at this point, we're fully like a decade later.
27:38
It was a handful of years later in 1984 that Randall made a comment to Bober from which
27:50
his suspicion and eventual theory would grow.
27:55
He told Bober the killer inserted rocks into his victims' remains.
28:06
OK.
28:09
Randy claimed he'd overheard the information about the case from an intoxicated Auburn police
28:17
officer at a wedding reception in neighboring Kent.
28:22
OK.
28:24
If allegedly it was the captain who shared the previously well-capped law enforcement
28:35
secret.
28:36
What?
28:37
This is a detail that they're holding back because they need certain details not to be
28:44
known by the public.
28:45
Yeah.
28:46
So they can know when they've got the real McCoy confessing.
28:52
They don't want any false confessage going on.
28:56
Yeah.
28:57
I kind of don't think that they cared.
28:59
But that's conjecture allegedly for legal purposes.
29:05
I mean, obviously if the captain is going to spill in the secrets when he gets a little
29:10
too tipsy at a wedding.
29:12
Listen.
29:13
OK.
29:14
You can't hit the sauce too heavy if you're going to start spill in details like that.
29:22
It loves the sauce myself.
29:24
But also I'm not privy to those kind of details of an active investigation.
29:29
I would not trust myself with secrets.
29:32
No, like no.
29:33
I don't know.
29:37
I feel like you have to you have to get your mind right.
29:41
Yeah.
29:42
I meant like having secrets and then like getting drunk.
29:45
But then I'm like, wait, I keep a lot of people's secrets.
29:47
So I don't really know what I'm saying here.
29:49
Yeah.
29:50
You're not at your good at keeping secrets.
29:53
Right.
29:54
Huh.
29:55
Weird.
29:56
I had no idea I was getting provoked.
29:58
So I know there were so many signs.
30:03
I got drunk with you a lot before that.
30:07
And I didn't still one secret didn't spell one fucking being.
30:11
I could be a captain.
30:12
I think you could.
30:14
Was this like proven or did this guy just say this or you're going to talk about it?
30:18
I some of this stuff, it's like how would you ever be able to truly verify it?
30:25
Like the captain didn't like come out and admit it or I don't know that he's ever come out
30:30
and admit it.
30:31
But I will say that there are certain things that only certain levels of law enforcement
30:39
would be privy to that.
30:41
It's like, okay, well, like it's a relatively short list.
30:47
Like, yeah.
30:48
And the fact that he's named a specific person and like, is somebody's wedding.
30:56
So that even goes back to like, we can look and see what date that was.
31:01
And like, yeah.
31:02
Like, why would he lie?
31:04
Yeah.
31:05
I put that in a one check.
31:07
Probably.
31:08
Who knows?
31:09
Who knows?
31:10
They're not checking a lot of shit here.
31:12
Did you check?
31:13
Did you hunt down this?
31:14
There's no way.
31:15
There's no way for me to figure that out.
31:18
I really wish, but you did what you could with the concert.
31:22
I did.
31:23
Yeah.
31:24
I did.
31:25
Oh my God.
31:26
I spent 30 minutes alone just tracking down the date of the concert and checking where...
31:34
I'm not kidding.
31:35
I looked up archives of color me badd's.
31:38
Fucking tour schedule.
31:40
Oh my God.
31:41
It's so funny.
31:44
I was like, I need to know.
31:46
You just need to know.
31:48
And if you know, if you need to know, probably find it, it's like even better.
31:54
Truth be told, this detail is still only partially accurate, but in any case, Coery Bober simply
32:03
did not believe him regarding the source of the information.
32:06
He's like, only the killer would know that.
32:10
How did he know that that was even true?
32:12
I mean, that's a really good question since that's why I led with it was only partially
32:17
true.
32:18
Right.
32:19
Okay.
32:20
So...
32:21
Like, yeah, like, how would he even know that that guy is telling the truth about that?
32:26
Yeah.
32:27
No, it's a really good question.
32:28
And only someone who maybe wasn't dealing with a full deck would think that, oh well, this
32:39
is the basis of...
32:41
Yeah.
32:42
And like, he just went from zero to a thousand from there.
32:47
If I was the other guy, I'd be like, wait, how do you know that that's true?
32:51
Right.
32:52
You did it.
32:53
You know the information.
32:54
And they just both go back and forth, accusing each other.
32:57
Yeah.
32:58
Yeah.
32:59
That makes sense.
33:00
He was convinced that Randy, Achziger, Achziger, Achziger, we still don't care.
33:07
Was a serial killer plaguing not only Puyola, but throughout other local communities as
33:14
the Green River Killer?
33:17
Now that name probably doesn't sound familiar to you.
33:22
Least of all, as the man convicted for the Green River Killings.
33:27
I don't know who got convicted.
33:29
But you know, that's not the right name, right?
33:31
I mean, I would have...
33:32
I've never heard that name before.
33:35
Yeah.
33:36
But yeah, what's his name?
33:37
Are you going to tell me?
33:38
Do you want me to?
33:39
Yeah.
33:40
Gary Leon Ridgeway.
33:42
That kind of sounds familiar.
33:44
Yeah.
33:45
Gary Ridgeway is the name that you've probably heard.
33:47
Yeah.
33:48
Quite a few times.
33:49
Yeah.
33:50
Okay.
33:51
Not bad with serial killer facts.
33:54
Like I know random ones here and there and like the names of who did what here and there
33:59
but like not a lot.
34:01
Yeah.
34:02
I mean, by and large, I feel like there's a few names that like...
34:06
Like kind of...
34:08
Everybody knows.
34:10
And he's kind of one of them because even considering the number, just there's so many
34:18
prolific serial killers in the Pacific Northwest, this guy really, the numbers are the numbers
34:28
that we can even come close to confirming they are astounding.
34:34
Yeah.
34:37
But there's every indication that to this very day, Corey Bober believes that Randy Achziger,
34:45
Achziger, who cares-iger, is the Green River Killer and that Misty was likely one of his
34:53
victims, all based on his extensive research of serial killers.
35:00
Okay.
35:02
This is despite the lack of evidence to back it up and the fact that another man has confessed
35:08
to numerous killings attributed to the Green River Killer.
35:14
It should be noted, however, that Gary Ridgeway would have absolutely zero motivation to confess
35:25
to any additional killings.
35:27
If he killed anyone that we don't already have confirmed, we probably will never know,
35:34
unless we can back it up with DNA evidence.
35:38
Damn.
35:40
This is particularly true of Misty Copsey's case.
35:44
If he was responsible for Misty or any yet unlinked Pierce County crimes, he may not have
35:51
been able to escape the death penalty.
35:54
Once his plea deal was with King County.
35:59
If Misty was in fact killed by either of these men, we will likely never know, as my research
36:06
indicates that Achziger, Achziger, who gives a fuck-iger, died in May of 2021.
36:16
Wow.
36:17
And like I said, Gary ain't talking.
36:19
Oh, it was like Gary, Gary Ridgeway, the actual Green River Killer.
36:27
Yeah.
36:28
Wow.
36:29
He's still alive.
36:30
Yes.
36:31
Wow.
36:32
Where is he stationed?
36:33
Where is he held?
36:34
I didn't mean to say stationed.
36:37
The Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla.
36:42
Wow.
36:43
So like not that far.
36:44
Nope.
36:45
I mean, how many of these guys have we talked about in some of them are still alive?
36:49
I mean, you talk about like the I-5 killer.
36:53
Randy, another Randy, what's his butt?
36:57
He's down in Salem.
36:58
That's not that far.
37:00
Yeah.
37:01
No.
37:02
Depending on traffic.
37:03
On the five, of course.
37:05
Yeah.
37:06
Yeah, it's kind of alarming.
37:08
And they kind of, I mean really, really, really alarming.
37:11
Ooh, that reminds me of that thing you pointed out about the hitchhikers by the prison.
37:17
That was you, right?
37:18
Okay.
37:19
Yeah, that creeped me out.
37:20
I was like, I never knew.
37:21
You have to start that.
37:24
You have to tell the people.
37:26
Yeah, tell that story from the top.
37:30
Okay.
37:31
So we were driving along the highway where Caitlin was driving.
37:35
And all of a sudden she was like, oh, is that a prison?
37:38
Because I just saw no hitchhiking signs.
37:40
And I was like, what?
37:41
And you were like, yeah, they put those around prisons.
37:45
And I was like, why?
37:47
I looked over and I was like, that's definitely a correctional institute of signboard refashion.
37:55
The sign didn't just say like no hitchhikers.
37:57
Like it said, like do not pick up hitchhikers.
37:59
Like it was like very...
38:01
No, it was, it was, it was eloquent in its brevity.
38:07
But it indicated, yeah, you shouldn't pick up hitchhikers.
38:14
Because they maybe recently released criminals.
38:19
And hopefully we let them out for a good reason.
38:23
But just in case we didn't.
38:26
And they're looking to immediately become a recidivism statistic.
38:33
Yeah, maybe don't.
38:36
I was thinking to like, what if they escaped?
38:38
Like, and they would just like immediately try to like hitchhike to get out of there.
38:43
Yeah.
38:44
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Yeild is crime.
39:49
In 1996, as what would have been Misty's 18th birthday approached, stories began circulating
39:56
in the media that any day now she would likely be contacting her family.
40:03
Her father and the Piala police, who would remain convinced, at least publicly, that Misty
40:10
was a runaway, weighted with baited breath for a call that would never come.
40:15
Is this after they found her clothes?
40:18
Yes.
40:19
And this is Deli.
40:20
Years later.
40:21
Are saying that she's going to...
40:25
Then by 1997, Corey was battling the legal system in connection with charges related
40:33
to marijuana, not his first rodeo.
40:38
He struck gold, however, when he included the pants that Misty had been wearing along with
40:48
their forensic analysis in his discovery, because you know he represented himself in that
40:56
case.
40:57
Oh.
40:58
I mean, he's just up against marijuana churches.
41:02
Right.
41:03
You know.
41:04
But he was able to claim he'd assisted police as a civilian investigator.
41:12
He discovered that the analysis revealed hairs were discovered along with three red paint
41:20
chips.
41:21
Wow.
41:22
It's more than we knew before that.
41:25
Though he believed another man to be guilty of at least some of the crimes now associated
41:30
with Ridgeway, he was able to badger law enforcement into testing the red paint chips.
41:38
Unfortunately, the results came back inconclusive.
41:42
What are they testing for?
41:45
They were trying to match it to something.
41:48
Okay.
41:49
The samples were lost thereafter.
41:51
Of course they were.
41:53
Yep.
41:54
Yep.
41:55
Yep.
41:56
That's going to be kind of hard if you don't have to match it too.
42:00
They had a couple of good options and things to try to match to.
42:05
But had past tense.
42:09
Jesus.
42:10
Diana had misty declared dead in 2000.
42:14
That's a lot of years later.
42:17
Yeah.
42:18
Eight years later.
42:19
And Corey Bober was able to convince a local church to host the funeral for free.
42:26
Oh, local flower shops to donate flowers.
42:31
He also compelled enough media attention to make it a rather large event.
42:36
Okay.
42:37
Well, I mean, he kind of redeemed himself a tiny bit.
42:42
By the mid 2000s, Diana had hired a PI.
42:47
Unfortunately, he wasn't able to turn up anything new in the case.
42:52
However, he did urge and eventually convinced her to cut Corey Bober off completely.
42:59
Oh, wow.
43:00
Even after all he did for the funeral.
43:03
Yeah.
43:04
I mean, I feel like I was trying to like, try to like get on their good side.
43:09
Yes.
43:10
And there was a brief time where she was convinced by law enforcement to file a restraining order
43:16
against Corey.
43:18
Wow.
43:19
And my understanding is that like, current day, they have not remained in close touch.
43:29
But they do have quite a history.
43:35
Wow.
43:36
Yeah, I would imagine someone like that would just be like, theory intense in your life.
43:40
Yeah.
43:41
I keep just like using that word to describe him, but I feel like he has a very intense energy.
43:47
Yeah.
43:48
I mean, if I showed you some of the tweets and the Facebook posts and, wow, there's a lot
43:52
of stuff that's no longer viewable online.
43:56
Wow.
43:57
But yeah, there's a very intense energy.
43:59
But I think by and large, I think I'm tempted to believe that he meant well.
44:07
Yeah.
44:08
Some people just get very, very deep into what they believe in and they can't see anything
44:13
else.
44:14
Yeah.
44:15
I think what illustrates that for me is the fact that he was very much unwilling to give
44:26
up his theory about the green river killer.
44:29
Yeah.
44:30
I mean, you put so much time and effort into that one theory.
44:34
You put your eggs in that basket and it's hard to let that go.
44:38
Yeah.
44:39
Yeah, especially if you're a man.
44:41
Yeah.
44:42
Yeah.
44:43
Yeah, you're not used to being wrong.
44:47
Yeah.
44:51
Hair samples found with Missy's jeans were tested in 2013, but no match could be found.
45:00
In recent years, Puyallup police have asked for anyone with pictures from the day that Misty
45:05
Copsey went missing after leaving the fair.
45:09
That was September 17, 1992 to come forward.
45:15
Now it wasn't until I was thoroughly engrossed in riding up this second part that I realized
45:23
I kind of lied in part one.
45:26
You liar.
45:29
But I'm okay with it.
45:30
And here's why.
45:32
Misty's first off, sometimes I lie, but it's always all accident.
45:38
Very little source material mentions the fact that both Misty Copsey and Anna Chebetnoy
45:45
Noy, were members of local tribal communities.
45:51
Misty the Cowlitz Indian tribe and Anna, the Puyallup Indian tribe dating back to the
45:58
beginning of May 2023, there were at least 142 unsolved cases with Native American victims
46:09
in the state of Washington according to the state patrol.
46:13
Here it was riding up part one, previously thinking all the while.
46:19
This won't be a story about the native or indigenous population in the area.
46:25
Well, it turns out there's a good, but maybe also scratch.
46:32
It's a horrible reason.
46:35
For that we need to turn to a woman named Debbie Hassler.
46:41
She's both the founder and manager of the Cowlitz tribal pathways to healing program, which
46:48
strives to provide numerous forms of victim services and advocacy for the Cowlitz tribal members.
46:58
The Pathways program works with people who have suffered sexual assault, domestic violence,
47:04
as well as other types of violent crime.
47:07
In more recent years, Hasler also took it upon herself and the program to become the keeper
47:14
of a list of missing and murdered members of the Cowlitz tribe.
47:20
Misty Copsey was listed as white or Caucasian for years in the police records and news articles
47:28
about her disappearance.
47:30
And in photographs, Misty could be said to present that way.
47:36
Certainly she doesn't appear to have dark hair or maybe some of the other defining
47:44
characteristics that many of us are accustomed to in someone of a native background.
47:52
But Hassler did confirm prior to Diana's death in 2020 that Misty was actually a member
48:00
of the Cowlitz tribe.
48:02
So we're police unaware at the time and this just didn't get caught and corrected.
48:11
Surely that seems plausible.
48:14
Does this incorrect detail account for the volume of coverage that Misty's case received
48:20
compared to some others?
48:23
That seems probable.
48:25
If law enforcement was aware of this aspect of her background, did that play a role in how
48:30
dismissive they were initially in her case?
48:34
Did they judge Diana more harshly for her drinking?
48:39
Did they assume that Misty was a runaway because of her tribal connection?
48:44
Whether this information was known at the onset of the case or not or how it might have
48:49
worked for or against Misty and those searching for her feels almost irrelevant in any case.
48:59
Because the fact is numerous mistakes were made in the course of the so-called investigation
49:05
into Misty's disappearance from the very start.
49:10
And likely not unrelated to that simple fact, Misty has never been found decades later.
49:19
In the state of Washington, a bill was passed in March of 2022 that tasks the Washington
49:27
State Patrol with providing alerts regarding missing indigenous people, just as would be
49:33
done in the case of missing child or medically vulnerable adults.
49:39
I think that we're all most likely fairly familiar with how amber alerts work.
49:45
So information about missing individual is sent to law enforcement and news agencies, as
49:51
well as posted on social media and electronic highway signs.
49:56
It's pretty slick, right?
49:59
Yeah.
50:01
And that makes determining the race and ethnicity of missing people pretty important.
50:10
Which you might think would already be the case, but it's really crucial in order for the
50:16
new alert system to work as intended.
50:20
On September 17th, 2017, the Puyallup Police Department got creative attempting to keep
50:28
Misty's unsolved case alive.
50:31
Oh, wow.
50:34
The department's official account became sending out a series of tweets in the voice of Misty
50:39
Copsey.
50:40
Oh, God.
50:42
They shared details of the case, but also some slightly more sentimental content, like photos
50:49
of her as a very young child.
50:52
Their hope was that on the 25th anniversary of her disappearance, perhaps someone with
50:58
information might come forward to help solve the aging case.
51:03
It's a pretty touching campaign, actually.
51:06
Oh, but sadly, it doesn't appear to have had the desired result despite the renewed
51:12
effort.
51:13
That's pretty much where Misty's case ends officially.
51:19
A few things I wanted to add came up in my research.
51:24
There was a deeply unsettling incident that occurred in 1993 near the Puyallup Fairgrounds
51:31
just months after Misty's disappearance.
51:35
It's often discussed in connection with Misty's case.
51:40
Could the perpetrator be the same in both cases?
51:45
It's hard to say, but here's the story.
51:48
A man in a red Camaro starts cat calling an otherwise harassing a 15-year-old girl at
51:56
roughly 2 a.m. just blocks from where Misty would have been abducted or otherwise disappeared.
52:04
That man was Robert Leslie Hickey, and he would eventually force the young girl into
52:10
his car.
52:12
He would drive to his secluded area before ultimately raping her.
52:18
Fortunately, despite his best attempts, this victim would survive a fall down a steep ravine.
52:26
It was just five short years after this horrific crime that he would be a free man again.
52:34
After attempted murder.
52:36
I mean, I think the argument was that, oh, she might have just slipped and fell down the
52:41
hill.
52:42
Oh, yeah.
52:43
You know, all he did was rape her, you guys.
52:44
He slipped and fell into her vagina.
52:46
Yeah, it's fine.
52:48
There's also reportedly a 1993 tip that was never investigated.
52:56
A man with a proven track record of violent sexual assault involving young girls and young
53:03
women.
53:05
He drove a yellow Chrysler Cordova.
53:09
There was at least one report of Misty having been spotted in this man's vehicle.
53:14
Oh, really?
53:15
That seems helpful.
53:17
Yeah.
53:18
To my knowledge, the identity of this potential suspect has never been revealed.
53:24
That makes me highly uncomfortable.
53:29
There's also someone we talked about in part one that seems worth revisiting.
53:36
Ruben Schmidt.
53:38
He was a friend of Misty's.
53:40
A significantly older friend of Misty's as a very young teenager.
53:49
And he was already 18.
53:53
He was arrested for theft in 2000.
53:57
Then in 2006, his wife obtained a domestic violence protection order against him.
54:06
There's also a piece I found dating back to December 2015 on a UK-based daily news website,
54:14
published by an anonymous author and alleged relative of Ruben.
54:20
Oh, they claimed that Ruben and his uncles were responsible for Misty's disappearance.
54:29
And asserting that they may have been behind the wheel of the previously mentioned yellow Chrysler
54:37
Cordova.
54:38
Wow.
54:39
But they never followed up on this.
54:42
I mean, this is all published to an international news website, news.
54:53
But yeah, it's hard to say.
54:55
They've never released the identity of whoever that potential suspect was.
55:01
Damn.
55:03
There's also the story dating back to.
55:06
But okay, no, this is real.
55:08
Okay.
55:09
I was like, did I start reading the same part again?
55:12
There's also the story dating back to many years prior.
55:16
At the time, Ruben was working sporadically at a local establishment called Adam's Ribs.
55:23
Oh, okay.
55:24
Yum.
55:25
Yeah.
55:26
Delish.
55:27
The owner, Frank Rodriguez, spoke to Lawn Forrestment and revealed that he was aware of suspicious
55:34
statements that Ruben had made regarding Misty and the circumstances surrounding her.
55:42
Mysteries disappear.
55:44
Okay.
55:45
I'm not going to like this.
55:46
I can tell about your face.
55:48
I hate it.
55:49
I hate it.
55:50
That's why I started to stumble over my words.
55:52
Oh, I hate it.
55:56
He alluded to knowing the location of Misty's remains and that the investigators were off
56:05
by about 6.5 miles.
56:08
6.5 miles.
56:09
Okay.
56:11
What a statement.
56:12
Somehow, he's always seemed of little interest to Lawn Forrestment.
56:18
Despite stories paraded by more than one acquaintance, indicating that either he and or other male family
56:27
members of his may have had something to do with Misty's 1992 disappearance.
56:35
You should know that where they found the clothing is.
56:40
The location of that and the family farm that he reportedly was the day after her disappearance.
56:47
Oh, the proximity.
56:49
Is it 6.5 miles?
56:53
Listen, it's very suspect.
56:56
It's, I don't like it.
56:59
I don't like it at all.
57:00
I don't know that we've mentioned anyone that anybody could for sure say like, yes, this
57:09
person.
57:11
Obviously, if anybody could say yes for sure this person, they'd probably be in prison.
57:17
Which I guess actually Mr. Ridgeway is.
57:22
Yeah.
57:23
Like, did they dump her clothes there?
57:26
Like, did they know?
57:27
I like, how would they know that?
57:29
I just, yeah.
57:31
It's very odd.
57:32
I don't like any of it.
57:35
Really.
57:37
There are almost too many suspects.
57:40
Yeah.
57:41
Potential suspects.
57:44
And some of the potential suspects were never really treated like they were potential suspects.
57:51
So it's, it's impossible to know now.
57:56
Yeah.
57:57
So I hate that.
57:59
Unless they find her.
58:03
This many years later, I just, I wonder if that's possible.
58:10
How long until like bones are gone, you know?
58:15
I mean, they would find bones at this point.
58:18
Yeah.
58:19
But they've, they've used like some of the technology that's supposed to like penetrate
58:28
the ground.
58:29
They did years and years and years back.
58:34
And I just wonder, you know, maybe I feel like if we are using ground penetrating rate
58:47
of heart.
58:48
Yeah.
58:49
That's the victim that's in a body of water.
58:55
You know?
58:56
Yeah.
58:57
God.
58:58
I really hate it.
59:00
And water is so fucking hard to like search into.
59:03
I've heard.
59:04
I mean, I don't have experience, but yeah.
59:07
But I think logistically, like, I mean, you can understand why that would be very challenging.
59:12
I don't think you have to have sort of body.
59:16
I feel like you're qualified to speak on that.
59:19
You've injured a body of water and yeah, did you ever like take swimming lessons where
59:25
they would like throw stuff and you would have to go find it in the bottom of the pool?
59:32
I don't know that I ever took like formal swimming lessons.
59:35
Or did you like do that in the pool within like a friend's?
59:37
Oh, yeah.
59:38
And they took that in the pool.
59:39
But it's still like even like just doing that and you can see through to the bottom and
59:44
it's usually like a colorful thing.
59:45
It's very challenging.
59:46
It's kind of hard to find.
59:48
It like moves around.
59:50
Yeah.
59:51
It is.
59:52
It's challenging.
59:53
So I can't even imagine like a natural body of water.
59:57
Yeah.
59:58
No.
59:59
The fuck.
1:00:00
I'm going to flash to May 2001 in nearby Lakewood.
1:00:07
At roughly 10 p.m., a young woman is walking home from church.
1:00:12
When a man driving by offers her a ride.
1:00:17
Though she declines, the man pulls over.
1:00:20
Guess what?
1:00:22
It's Robert Leslie Hickey.
1:00:25
Oh.
1:00:26
Is he the guy in the yellow thing?
1:00:31
Or is that a different guy?
1:00:32
That might be a different guy.
1:00:34
Oh.
1:00:35
This is the guy that we just were talking about.
1:00:37
I'm sorry.
1:00:38
No, it's okay.
1:00:39
There's so many.
1:00:40
There's a lot of.
1:00:41
Yeah.
1:00:42
There's so many men out there killing women.
1:00:45
Is he the one with the farm that's close?
1:00:47
Or is that a different guy?
1:00:49
The one?
1:00:50
You said you had a farm close by the...
1:00:52
No, that's Ruben.
1:00:53
Oh, God.
1:00:54
Who is this guy?
1:00:55
Oh, my God.
1:00:56
No one knew.
1:00:57
Can you do this?
1:00:58
No, we talked about him.
1:00:59
Okay.
1:01:00
So, remember, he was a man and a red Camaro.
1:01:05
The red Camaro.
1:01:06
He started calling a young girl, forced her into his car, raped her through her down a ravine,
1:01:15
and he got five years.
1:01:16
Yeah.
1:01:17
Okay.
1:01:18
So, it was him trying to pick up this girl, leaving church.
1:01:21
Yep.
1:01:22
Yep.
1:01:23
He's a Robert Leslie Hickey.
1:01:26
And when he approaches her, she tries to both quickly and discreetly move away from him
1:01:32
by crossing the street as she dials 911.
1:01:36
Wow.
1:01:37
He continued to approach her.
1:01:40
He sends her falling down the roadside embankment as he both gropes and threatens her before realizing
1:01:49
she has already called for help.
1:01:51
Good.
1:01:53
Because this was his second offense, when Hickey is convicted for attempted second degree
1:02:00
rape, he receives life with no possibility of parole.
1:02:05
That's good.
1:02:06
Ligit the only time I've ever heard of a sex crime being taken even remotely this seriously.
1:02:13
Wow.
1:02:14
I was shocked.
1:02:15
I was shooketh.
1:02:16
Did...
1:02:17
I mean, I guess I don't really want to ask that question.
1:02:20
I'm like, did he actually hurt her bad?
1:02:24
I mean, he definitely hurt her, but it sounds like as...
1:02:30
I think I know what you're trying to get at.
1:02:32
Did he hurt her the most?
1:02:33
Did he hurt her the most?
1:02:34
Did he hurt her the most?
1:02:35
Did he hurt her the most?
1:02:36
Did he hurt her the most?
1:02:37
I mean, he certainly assaulted her in a sexual way.
1:02:41
Yeah.
1:02:42
But he looked down and saw her phone and the call had already connected.
1:02:49
And he was like, "Oh, fuck, I can't risk this."
1:02:51
Well, too late.
1:02:53
Too fucking late.
1:02:54
Yeah.
1:02:55
They already got your number, bro.
1:02:58
I mean, fucking letting him out five years later and then this happened.
1:03:03
Like...
1:03:04
I'm glad it wasn't worse.
1:03:07
Like, I hate that it had to happen to somebody, but...
1:03:10
Oh my God.
1:03:11
It could have been so much worse and it could have kept going.
1:03:14
I mean, and it could have been worse than in different case.
1:03:18
Speculation about whether he might have been responsible for Misty's disappearance
1:03:24
or that of the other two Puyallup girls has loomed large in hindsight.
1:03:32
One of his crimes was commit just blocks from where Misty disappeared.
1:03:38
Could the red chips found near her pants have been from his red chameuro?
1:03:44
Aside from the location, the time period also matches that, but he has denied any involvement.
1:03:52
As a result of his aforementioned crime, he is now serving a life sentence without the
1:03:58
possibility of parole.
1:04:00
It just feels good to say it again.
1:04:02
Yeah.
1:04:03
Just feels good, you know?
1:04:04
Thank goodness.
1:04:05
Did they try to match the paint chips to his car or was that gone by then?
1:04:12
Yeah, I don't know.
1:04:15
They're gone now.
1:04:17
That's right.
1:04:18
They are gone now.
1:04:19
They are gone now.
1:04:20
I don't know that they ever tried to make any sort of match to his vehicle.
1:04:23
I was thinking that when you, as soon as you said it, there was someone with a red car and
1:04:28
I was like, "The red paint chips, the red paint chips."
1:04:31
Yeah.
1:04:32
We're going to go do tarot, but first we're going to go do the pee.
1:04:35
Yeah, we're going to pee.
1:04:36
We're going to go pee.
1:04:37
Okay.
1:04:38
Bye.
1:04:39
Okay.
1:04:46
Okay.
1:04:50
It's the four of pentacles and reverse.
1:04:56
Okay.
1:04:57
Is this a woodpecker?
1:04:59
That's a really good question.
1:05:00
I'm going to pass you a little book.
1:05:02
It looks like he's pecking seeds or something like out of a tree.
1:05:07
In some words, security, materialism, caution, possessiveness, greed and creative blocks.
1:05:20
In some tarot decks, the four of pentacles features a man with four pentagrams attached to
1:05:26
his body.
1:05:27
The image suggests his money and possessions define him.
1:05:33
There's symbolized ability, therefore this card signifies financial security or seeking
1:05:40
it.
1:05:42
We did pull that in the reverse.
1:05:46
When the four of pentacles appears reversed, it suggests your conservative attitude and
1:05:53
limited vision are causes of stagnation.
1:05:59
Seeing investigation.
1:06:02
As a result, you encounter obstacles and delays that keep you from moving ahead.
1:06:07
Sounds about right.
1:06:10
Yep.
1:06:13
You need to make changes to stop clinging to old ideas and tried and true methods, but you're
1:06:19
afraid to take a risk.
1:06:21
Why?
1:06:22
Do you think you might help some people if you did?
1:06:25
No, I don't.
1:06:26
Sorry to say.
1:06:28
When a reading about money, this card recommends against an investment or financial venture at
1:06:34
this time.
1:06:36
Sometimes it indicates imprudent spending or bad decisions regarding money or property.
1:06:43
Like losing things, certain important things perhaps.
1:06:48
Yeah, I mean, that's fair.
1:06:50
I hadn't thought about that actually.
1:06:52
Well, when she said I didn't either until you said like property and a property.
1:06:57
Yeah.
1:06:59
If the reading is about your job, the reversed four can mean you feel insecure in your position.
1:07:06
Outsourcing, cutbacks or competition may threaten your job.
1:07:11
Interesting.
1:07:13
You may be passed over for promotion or failed because your skills are outdated or inadequate.
1:07:19
Oh, interesting.
1:07:21
Say in a mouthful right there.
1:07:24
When a reading about love, you may fear losing control in a relationship because you sense
1:07:31
your power dwindling, you feel insecure.
1:07:35
Perhaps you depend on your partner for financial support and feel trapped in the relationship.
1:07:40
Well, so what I'm hearing is insecure man.
1:07:44
Yeah.
1:07:45
From this.
1:07:46
Yeah.
1:07:47
Yeah.
1:07:48
Yeah.
1:07:49
Yeah, but never it's never, it's never a good thing to have an insecure man about.
1:07:55
It is not.
1:07:58
Okay, there is an extra excerpt.
1:08:01
It says, you've heard the saying money is the root of all evil, but the actual quote is
1:08:08
love of money greed is the root of all kinds of evil.
1:08:14
In some terro decks, this card is labeled greed.
1:08:18
The thought, terro, however, calls it power and gives a more positive interpretation, a
1:08:24
solid foundation on which you can create something sound.
1:08:30
Wow.
1:08:32
Interesting.
1:08:33
It's like greed, greed and power.
1:08:36
Yeah.
1:08:39
Did we figure out if this was you asked about the imagery on the card if it was a, it's
1:08:47
an acorn woodpecker.
1:08:49
It is a woodpecker.
1:08:50
Which I've never heard of an acorn woodpecker before.
1:08:53
That's interesting.
1:08:54
You got to figure there's multiple breeds and yeah, and I are these acorns that he's
1:09:00
pecking out of a tree.
1:09:01
I don't understand.
1:09:02
I mean, they would be.
1:09:03
Yeah.
1:09:04
In tree bark.
1:09:06
I would think like not stereotypically.
1:09:08
It's interesting.
1:09:10
I'm just like we need to do more research.
1:09:12
I need to learn about the nature of these woodpeckers.
1:09:16
Okay.
1:09:17
Basically, you know, insecurity, blah, blah, blah, all the things possessiveness.
1:09:23
Yeah.
1:09:24
I'll read the story.
1:09:26
What's a granary tree?
1:09:28
Granary?
1:09:29
Granary?
1:09:30
Granary?
1:09:31
The granary tree was beautiful.
1:09:33
That must be what kind of tree that is.
1:09:35
We'll have to look that up.
1:09:36
Yeah.
1:09:37
That's interesting.
1:09:39
A thousand and one acorns all perfectly placed in perfectly sized alcoves.
1:09:47
That's hard to say.
1:09:48
Oh.
1:09:49
Okay.
1:09:50
So do they pack the hole and then put the acorn in it?
1:09:55
Maybe.
1:09:56
How's granary spholt?
1:09:58
G-R-A-N-A-R-Y.
1:10:00
Okay.
1:10:01
That's what I thought.
1:10:03
So this says, like, the number one search result is storing food, or storing food, the
1:10:10
granaries of acorn woodpeckers.
1:10:14
Interesting.
1:10:15
It's interesting because it's like they're hiding things.
1:10:19
Mm-hmm.
1:10:20
So that's kind of...
1:10:23
I don't know.
1:10:25
Oh my gosh.
1:10:26
Okay.
1:10:27
So they hoard thousands of acorns in these trees, apparently.
1:10:32
A thousand and one.
1:10:35
Oh, this is so bizarre looking.
1:10:39
You're going to have to look at this after we're done.
1:10:42
I...
1:10:43
Maybe I'll send you a picture right now.
1:10:44
Okay.
1:10:45
This is so bizarre.
1:10:46
I've never seen anything like this.
1:10:48
Yeah.
1:10:49
That's what the...
1:10:50
It's what the picture looks like.
1:10:52
Yeah.
1:10:53
That's why it's like so weirded out.
1:10:55
It looks like, you know, when people have the whole ofobia...
1:10:59
Tripephobia.
1:11:00
Oh.
1:11:01
That's what that reminds me of.
1:11:04
Just a lot of holes with seeds stuck inside.
1:11:08
So yeah, that's super interesting that they're like hiding and like burying and...
1:11:12
Yeah.
1:11:13
Yeah.
1:11:14
Yeah.
1:11:15
That is.
1:11:16
Wow.
1:11:17
Gosh.
1:11:18
Also, like, how weird is it that they're saying a thousand and one, and we talked about it being
1:11:24
two years and one month?
1:11:27
It was just like...
1:11:28
Yeah.
1:11:29
Something so random.
1:11:30
Yeah.
1:11:31
Yeah.
1:11:32
It's just weird that it's saying that here.
1:11:35
Oh.
1:11:36
Very strange.
1:11:37
Okay, I'm going to finish it.
1:11:39
Okay.
1:11:40
Okay.
1:11:41
So all the acorns are in little holes.
1:11:43
At sunset, they shown like drops of gold.
1:11:47
At night, the woodpecker dreamed of the pattern of their inlay, recalling clearly the placement
1:11:54
of everyone.
1:11:56
Oh.
1:11:57
Oh, I don't want.
1:12:00
But he awoke, feeling uneasy, and as he surveyed his collection, his suspicions were confirmed.
1:12:10
An empty space, a missing knot in the lattice that wrapped the oak.
1:12:17
I like literally have all of the shells.
1:12:20
A missing knot?
1:12:22
Yeah.
1:12:23
Oh.
1:12:24
Like, one of the acorns is gone.
1:12:27
Yeah.
1:12:28
Stolen.
1:12:29
It's taken.
1:12:30
He doesn't know what happened to it.
1:12:32
Oh.
1:12:33
Okay.
1:12:34
It's not over.
1:12:35
Okay.
1:12:36
This would not do.
1:12:37
The imperfection stuck in his mind like a splinter of dry bark.
1:12:41
What if winter stretch longer than usual, and he needed one more acorn to last until the
1:12:48
thaw?
1:12:49
A thousand and one acorns just weren't enough to truly be secure.
1:12:55
How he thought flying off to scrounge another a thousand and two sounds much better.
1:13:03
It's just like super crazy.
1:13:07
It's like bearing things and things are missing.
1:13:12
Oh.
1:13:13
Yeah.
1:13:14
Weird.
1:13:15
Oh.
1:13:16
So he's got to get two more acorns.
1:13:22
I don't like the way I just said that.
1:13:24
Anyway.
1:13:25
Well, what do you guys think?
1:13:26
Let us know as always if you'll because there's stuff we guys are stuff that we miss in the
1:13:37
tarot and no one ever comes out and tells us.
1:13:40
That's not true.
1:13:41
Sometimes people.
1:13:42
Yeah.
1:13:43
I know we were like, okay, everybody tell us.
1:13:47
Sometimes some people tell us.
1:13:49
I'm just like, shit, how did I not see that?
1:13:55
Yeah.
1:13:56
So if you see something, let us know.
1:13:57
But you're like, you are just honestly absorbing everything that we produce in terms of
1:14:03
content.
1:14:04
Like sometimes just, you know, just so many times because of the editing process.
1:14:12
Yeah.
1:14:13
Yeah.
1:14:14
And you know what?
1:14:15
A thousand times.
1:14:16
Exactly.
1:14:17
A thousand and one.
1:14:18
And one or two.
1:14:19
Or just.
1:14:20
Yeah.
1:14:21
I think probably you deserve to relax a little bit.
1:14:25
I think you do too.
1:14:27
Yeah.
1:14:28
Should we?
1:14:29
Should we summon a thousand and two shots?
1:14:34
I think we should.
1:14:35
I think we should celebrate this space.
1:14:38
And we should get someone to bring us a shot.
1:14:41
Like who would we be?
1:14:42
Who could do that?
1:14:43
Have a creepy ass day.
1:14:45
Soon as it takes two days.
1:14:47
Unless this beat hits a little harder than we thought.
1:14:50
Yeah.
1:14:51
You know.
1:14:52
Oh, yeah, that went up the back of my nose.
1:14:58
Oh, yeah.
1:14:59
It burns so good.
1:15:03
Your girl isn't taking shots even on the weekends anymore.
1:15:09
Too old for this shit.
1:15:11
You're never too old to.
1:15:14
Yeah.
1:15:18
That's exactly what that is.
1:15:19
That's exactly what that is.
1:15:21
Okay, next time it should be Jello shots.
1:15:23
I agree.
1:15:24
Yeah.
1:15:25
Some a little lighter next time.
1:15:26
Okay.
1:15:27
I'm getting on.
1:15:28
I'm going to instacart this Jello right now.
1:15:30
Okay.
1:15:31
Because we're so old we need to eat Jello.
1:15:32
I love Jello.
1:15:33
Okay.
1:15:34
That's what makes shots bearable.
1:15:36
Okay.
1:15:37
I've done Jello shots with my grandma and she loved them.
1:15:41
She didn't know there was alcohol in them.
1:15:43
It's so cute.
1:15:44
It's so cute.
1:15:45
That was rude.
1:15:54
What?
1:15:55
This cord was.
1:15:56
Oh, it's okay.
1:15:57
It's on the blue cord.
1:15:58
This cord is on top of the blue cord and you're kicking the blue cord.
1:16:06
So it's moving this cord and I thought it was a ghost.
1:16:08
Oh, well, you know what?
1:16:12
You didn't, you weren't in love with the lamp but like what?
1:16:16
Like that?
1:16:17
That's a ghosty trap.
1:16:21
Not a trap but like a detector.
1:16:24
Goasty detector.
1:16:25
Goasty detector.
1:16:26
Goasty detector.
1:16:27
Got it.
1:16:28
This is, we started ghost hunting.
1:16:30
I've gotten Caitlin into ghost hunting and she's fucking love us.
1:16:33
I guess so.
1:16:34
Well, here's the thing.
1:16:35
We haven't had anything spooky happen here.
1:16:38
Interesting.
1:16:39
Very interesting.
1:16:43
Isn't just.
1:16:47
Except for all of the technology shenanigans but we are blaming it on Mercury.
1:16:52
Yeah.
1:16:53
Because that's a thing.
1:16:55
So.
1:16:56
Regere grade is bitch.
1:16:57
Anyway.
1:16:58
Um...