Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Tigers 2026 grades and awards

Transcript

Tigers 2026 grades and awards · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: And welcome in to another episode of Tiger Territory, part
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network, Detroit Tigers podcast. I'm Kieran Steckley.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: With me, as always, is a man whose ceiling is
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: so high, no ball could reach it. He is Cody Stavenhagen.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: How are we doing?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Doing all right, Kieran. How are you?
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know, like, I am having fun watching these MLB playoffs,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: but I am getting, like, the FOMO thing, especially those
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: games at Cleveland and games at Houston, like, you know,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: two sites that I have been to the previous couple years.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I was like, I was covering playoff games in Cleveland.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know. And I get like a weird feeling
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: entering that building. So I just think of like all
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: the tense moments, times I've been flipping out in the
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: press box. So I didn't, I didn't fully enjoy being there.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I've come to appreciate the, there's some pretty good chicken
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: wings in Cleveland, not exactly Buffalo, but you know, you
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: can find some good wings in Cleveland. Unfortunately, I've spent
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: enough time there to now try several different places.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I have, the spooks when it comes to playing the guardians,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: but I do enjoy being in Cleveland. Uh, you know,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed my time there last year and, and, and,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and look, I don't have like animosity toward like the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: white socks and what they're doing. Like, I think it's
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: kind of fun for the most part. And, you know,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: seeing these young guys have their moment, all that stuff.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: It takes me back to what, you know, we got
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to experience watching these tigers the past couple of years.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Obviously this is a dip in the, uh, in the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: projection of the franchise. So, We got to talk off-season stuff, Cody.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: You are in Chicago still covering the White Sox and
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the Guardians series, but we got to talk some off-season tides.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: And probably right off the top, we always talked about
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: there's probably going to be a coaching move or two
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: just because that just kind of seems like the thing
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: to do, especially off of, I would say, a downer year.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: But you and Ken Rosenthal reported last week, I guess,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Juan Neves, the assistant pitching coach, and first base coach,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Anthony Sanders, reportedly, I guess it's not official, so we
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: were going to say reportedly, are out.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I reported it, so I'll say it's for real.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: There you go. There you go. Obviously, we don't know
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: a whole lot about the ins and outs of how
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: AJ kind of runs things, but those are two, I
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: would say, especially Sanders being the first base coach, two
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: relatively like visible coaching changes. Like Juan is a guy
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: that you would see in the, in the dugout and, and,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: you know, working with pitchers as well. And he's been
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: with the team for a couple of years now. So
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: what's your interpretation of, uh, of these changes, uh, for
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the tigers?
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, well, Anthony Sanders is the big one that
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: kind of stands out. He had only been with the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: tigers for one year from the little I could tell,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: which isn't a ton without being able to talk to
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the coaches, uh, per tiger's policy. He, he, Players seem
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to really like him. They raved about his preparation. I
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: think Colt Keith said he's the most knowledgeable base running,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: stolen bases type guy that I've worked with. And it's
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: worth noting the Tigers have had, what, three different first
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: base coaches in three years. Is that right? Or three
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: and four years. And so that's part of the subtext
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: of this. The Tigers have low key kind of been
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: burning through coaches under A.J. Hinch the past, few years
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: and even this year you know they parted with Joey
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Cora mid-season two different changes at the end of the
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: season there word is kind of going around like hey
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: why are the Tigers always going through so many coaches
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: and I think especially with a guy like Sanders who's
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: there for one year seems like he did well but
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know the team's overall base running did decline
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: a little bit as much as Sanders I think was
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: brought in to try to spur them on to stealing
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: more bases That didn't really happen. I mean, it didn't
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: happen at all until the end of the year. The
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Tigers stole 58 bases. 18 of those were in September.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: It sounds like Sanders wasn't actually that influential of a
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: figure in that jump in steals in September. I think
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: George Lombard had actually returned to a lot of the
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: base running duties when that was happening. So on the outside,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: it looked like kind of maybe a Sanders thing. My understanding,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: not so much. I don't think he leaves on bad terms,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: but it sounds like there's a chance to switch up
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the mix a little bit, and they're going to bring
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: in someone else. Juan Nieves, look, the guy's been in
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: the game a long time. He's been pitching coach for
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: the Red Sox and Marlins, coached pretty much everyone who's
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: come through the Tigers system in recent years, was at
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Toledo for a while. But to be honest, I'm kind
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: of surprised he had lasted this long just You know,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: he was assistant pitching coach, but it was pretty obvious
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Federer and Lund were doing more of the hands-on stuff.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Juan was there to lend his expertise from years of experience.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: It was helpful that he was a Spanish speaker, could
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: connect with some of the Latin pitchers more. He influenced
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: other guys too. I mean, I think he had a
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: big influence on like Drew Summers this year, some other
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: guys who worked down in the bullpen, but seemed like
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: something that had just kind of ran its course. So
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I'll be interested to see how the Tigers fill those vacancies.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: It's worth noting. With Billy Boyer, his midseason move to
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: third base coach, the quality control job that once belonged
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: to Boyer has been open this whole time. I believe
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: the Tigers are interviewing at least one former big leaguer
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: for that job as they try to fill that. It's
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: not a total lock that they'll replace Nieves with a
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: pitching coach. They could do some other things on their staff.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: And some other things, I was told there have been
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: some changes to the training staff. Ryan Eubanks, Chris McDonald
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: are out. that's one of those things too. In a
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: year with a lot of injuries, are you parting with
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: trainers just to part with trainers? Because if you recall,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: there was a big training staff shakeup when Scott Harris
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: took over, and it seemed like then they really changed
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: their methodology. So I have zero insight into if there
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: was any issue with the methodology or if that's another
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: thing where you're kind of just making a change for
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: the sake of making a change. There are some updates
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: on where the Tigers' staff stands.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and with respect to these individuals who are currently
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: going to be looking for new jobs, so with respect
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: to them as people, this does kind of align with
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: you just can't do the same thing that you did previously,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: just in general. And if they were the ones that
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: were identified as points of emphasis, then I guess you
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: just kind of have to you know, role with, um,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: the administration and, and AJ's, uh, preferences there. And look,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I would probably guess that AJ is a demanding, uh,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: kind of MF or in charge, like from his coaches,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: like that, that, that kind of screams his personality, to
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: be honest with you. So it doesn't surprise me that,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: you know, like he, if he's not satisfied that he
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: has no problem with like, okay, we got to go
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: in a different direction.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Cause you're right.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: This is something that, I mean, if him and Joey, uh,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: are gonna, like, have that, you know, that mid-season firing,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: as weird as that was, then, like, you know, nobody
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: is safe, I guess is what I would say.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I'd say no one's safe after a losing season
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: like that, you know, it makes sense. Again, I think A.J.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: is a really good manager, but we've talked before about, like,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: you know, some of the dynamics at play there, and
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: so For better or worse, I think it makes sense
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: that there were changes. Again, the Sanders one just really
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: surprised me, given he had only been on staff for
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: one year. Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of demanding, Cody, I got to tell you
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: that I am excited to see the American League Championship
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Series this year. Which is why I want to give
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: the sponsor of today's video, SeatGeek, a huge shout out.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: With over 35 million downloads, SeatGeek is the number one
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: on SeatGeek, including concerts, sports, festivals, and more. MLB postseason,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: as I just mentioned. NBA is right around the corner. NFL,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: college football, right in the thick of it. NHL has
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: started as well. I love using SeatGeek. SeatGeek has your back.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Each ticket is rated on a scale of 1 to 10,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: so you know you're getting a good deal. So look
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: for the green dots. Green means good. Red means bad. Plus,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: every ticket is backed by their buyer guarantee. And, of course,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I got a code for you guys. You can use
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: code TERRITORY10 for 10% off any ticket. So that's a
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: new thing, guys. Any tickets on SeatGeek, use code TERRITORY10
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: for 10% off any tickets on SeatGeek. Make sure you
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: click the link in the description to download the app.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: and have the code automatically added to your account so
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: you can use it later.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you, SeatGeek. All right.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: As we kind of parse through, like, sort of trying
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: to anticipate what the team's going to do, I think
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: we can spend a couple episodes here, Cody, kind of
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: doing just a little bit of look back. And it's,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: you know, again, it's one of those deals where it's like,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: where you are can help determine where you go, right?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: So I didn't want to do, like, player grades. Cause
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: that could take a while. And then, you know, it
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: kind of get bogged down a little bit. So I,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I wanted to grade the, I wanted to grade the groups, Cody.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: So starting pitching bullpen, hitting fielding, and we'll, we'll throw
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: in base running, uh, there as well. So, uh, fun
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: little exercise. And you just kind of look at some
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: basic stats and you're like, Oh, I like this.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Not so, uh, not so keen on that part here. So,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: A lot of both, as you would expect from a
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: team that missed the playoffs and finished below. 500. So,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: let's start with starting pitching. So these are, unless otherwise noted,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: these are American League rankings. Because although it's balanced and
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, you're still more competing with people in
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: your league for playoff positioning, obviously. So American League rankings.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Starting pitching for the Tigers was 10th in strikeouts, 13th
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: in home runs, 3rd in batting average, and 3rd an ERA.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: So some of that is weighted because you had a
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: deeper pitching staff at the beginning of the season, obviously,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: then at the end with the school bowl and the Mises,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: even with the injuries that they had. I went with
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: a B plus. It's hard for me to be overly
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: enthusiastic about what we saw this year, but But, especially
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: when you talk about Fromber and how it was kind
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: of like, eh, you know, with the first year of
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: the deal, you did have to trade Schuble, you did
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: have to trade Mize. But there's still enough juice there
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: that I thought this was one of the strengths of
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the team. So I gave a B-plus for these starting pitchers.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it was still one of the best
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: rotation cores in baseball. In a way, it didn't always
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: feel like it, which is Interesting, but I could almost
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: be talked into giving them an A- based on the
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: simple end results, right? I mean, the Tigers starting pitching
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: had the fourth best ERA in all of baseball. All
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: 30 teams. There are 30 teams in the league. A
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: 3-5-5 ERA. If you're a top five staff in baseball,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I'll give you an A-. And you did that while
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: trading Tarek Skubal mid-season. I think the contributions of Cater
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Montero were huge. We've talked about Fromber, even though he
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: ultimately underachieved his contract. He was much better later in
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: the season, took down a lot of innings for him.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying he individually gets an A. I wouldn't
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: give him an A. But the Tigers staff as a whole,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: kind of incredible. A year like they had, the injuries
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: they had. And they had a 3-5-5 ERA from their starters.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, they were pitching at a 20-24 level. Really good.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I think you talk about the coaches, I think that
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: speaks a lot to Chris Vetter and Robin Lund and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: the work they do with some of those guys. The
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: emergence of Troy Melton, especially early on there, was huge.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: And it was really the strength of the team.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And again, if you want to have a little bit
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: of an optimistic view of Jackson Jobe a full year
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: you know recover from Tommy John Reese Olsen presumably back
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: in the mix there I'm gonna bring up Reese Olsen
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a lot because I don't want people to forget about
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: him uh you know yeah.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And I'd like to hear more about that I think
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: I'd said this a few episodes ago like the procedure
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: he had on his shoulders in a way doesn't necessarily
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: have the high the um the same return to previous
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: level rate as Tommy John does now so there may
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: still be some uncertainty with Reese but We'll certainly be
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: very interested to see him and hopefully watch him pitch
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: next spring and see what that looks like. All right, relievers.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: You guys know the deal. You guys know the deal.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: But here's some rankings. Again, American League rankings. 10th in strikeouts,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: 14th in saves, 7th in ERA, 7th in home runs,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: and 6th in batting average against. We joked that the
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Tigers might have the greatest– difference in how you feel
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: versus what the ERA is among some guys in the bullpen,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: including Jansen, including Finnegan and some other guys. But obviously
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: the blown saves, obviously the lack of swing and miss.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: If you want to be positive, the emergence of Drew Summers,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I think is a big deal. There was, you know,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: several other guys were steadying influences in that bullpen. But
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I went with a D +, and that's basically on
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the back of Summers. The only reason I could even
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: do anything more than, I would say, a D- is
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: just what Drew was able to be and what he
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: could be moving forward.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's ultimately appropriate. I've never seen advanced
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: stats be used to simply describe what we all watched
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: better than when it comes to the 2026 Detroit Tigers bullpen.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: They were 26th in win probability added. What that means
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: is when relievers entered the game, the win probability swung
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: in a negative way big time. They were 29th in
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: clutch rating or performance and leverage. That means when it mattered,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: when they were runners on base, when it was late
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: in the game, when the lights were at their brightest,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: the situations were at the biggest, the Tigers bullpen performed
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: their worst. they ultimately had 32 saves and 31 blown saves.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: So they almost blew as many games as they saved.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: It wasn't just Kinley Jansen. There was a lot of
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Kyle Finnegan in there. There were certainly some other guys.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I think it really, really hurt the Tigers not having
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Will Vest at his best and then ultimately injured. They
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: really missed that arm. The power fastball, the guy who
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: can get out both righties and lefties. And then, Karen,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: even you said like 10th in the American League in strikeouts.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: How many years are we going to have this discussion?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: If you can't get swing and miss in your bullpen,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: you leave yourself susceptible to randomness and bad luck at
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: the end of the game. It wasn't just the home
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: run balls. The Tigers, sometimes it just seemed like it
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: was bad luck, but in a way, I don't know, man.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: You got to get some relievers who strike people out,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: and the Tigers have failed to do that for several
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: years running now. So I'm going to give the bullpen
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: a D +, even though some of the more surface
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: stats are So, yeah, actually it wasn't that bad because
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I watched every game. I watched 160 of the 162 games,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: and it was pretty bad for the most part.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: And, again, if you wanted to just say, like, confidence meter,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: late in games confidence meter with the choices that AJ
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: had at his disposal– probably less than a D +.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: It was probably a D- at best.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: And that's how I would watch games. Like, if the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: starter didn't go 5, I was like, I'm not sure
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: how they're going to cover the rest of this game.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: And in most chances, they didn't really cover the rest
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: of the game as well as you would like. Yeah,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: very true.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Alright, let's go to hitting. So... The Tigers, and again,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: American League ranks, they were 9th in home runs, 3rd
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: in walks, 4th in OPS, 9th in batting average, if
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: you like that, 5th in strikeouts, 3rd in doubles, and
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: 13th in grounding into double play. So actually, that was
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: one of the things that surprised me. And 6th in
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: total bases. I like total bases. We should bring back
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: total bases as a step that we talk about more. So...
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I gave this a B minus. You have
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: to think about the injuries. You have to think about
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: what they were able to accomplish with the development of
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Kevin McGonigal with the, I would say, good debuts of
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: a Valencia, of a Max Clark, and some of the
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: steadiness of a Riley Green, even as we joke about it,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the it's still in theirs of the, uh, special Torkelson's
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: of the world. So I gave it a B minus.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: It's obviously something that has to get better, but the
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: base I think is a little bit, uh, firmer than, uh,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: than maybe people when we thought maybe in the moment.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were again, you know, when I tell you guys, I'm,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I'm just going old school now. Right. Um, they were
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: 14th in run scored. The game is about scoring runs
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: and they did that at, Well, there are 30 teams
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: in the league, so the definition of average would be
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: if you were 15th or median. They were 14th. They
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: were very, very average. So maybe a B- is appropriate
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: for that. Or should we go C +, I don't know,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: somewhere in there. They did some things well. One thing
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I really do want to highlight and give the Tigers
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: and the Scott Harris regime credit for, the second lowest
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: chase rate in all of baseball, 27.3%. the talk of
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: dominating the strike zone that was laid out many moons
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: ago has somewhat come to fruition. Now, I would argue
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: the game has kind of changed pretty quickly, and contact
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: is cool again, and ground ball, you know, the Brewers
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: and the Rays, the ground balls and small ball and speed,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: that is now the frontier. Dominating the strike zone in
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: a way already might be two or three years, you know, old,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and it's just now come to fruition. But it's still
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: a good thing to do, to not chase, to not
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: swing at bad pitches, something the Tigers had done my
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: entire time covering them, really until this year. And they
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: controlled the strike zone at an elite level. That's a
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: product of their roster choices, bringing in guys like Kevin
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: McGonigal and Max Clark, also some players improving. Riley Green
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: really cutting his chase rate this year. That was huge.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: So they get credit for that overall. Like, what was
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: the thing Scott said that they, If you take out May,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: they had the second highest WRC +. I fact-checked that
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: because that's not easy to do on publicly available sites. Also,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: you don't get to just take out May. like sometimes
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: people pointed us in the media and you're like you're
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: just chair picking i don't know it feels a little
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: bit obviously they did some things well this year ultimately
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: for the season i think they were 11th in in
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: wrc plus and they were 14th in run scored they
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: they just didn't produce runs at that great of a
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: clip um that's that's that's really all i have to
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: say about it it was okay health that could have
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: been a little bit better, but I was never convinced
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: they were going to be better than last year's offense
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: that finished 11th in run scoring, and sure enough, they
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: were indeed a little bit worse.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point about the contact stuff, and
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I think there is an element, too, where the Tigers
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: might slowly start getting some pieces that can emphasize that
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit more.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: In two or three years, they're going to have a
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: pretty fast team. I don't know what the rest of
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: baseball is going to be doing in two or three years, but.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Well, let's go to fielding. So, you know, obviously everybody
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: kind of has their own feelings about fielding, but I
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: just kind of picked out a couple numbers. According to
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Fielding Bible, they were eighth in baseball and defensive run
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: saves at 41. And then the other side of this,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: StatCast had them 27th in outs above average. So there's
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: your full spectrum right there. cody that was my minus
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: 39 outs above average uh for the team so i
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: gave it a c plus because it was based on
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: i mean those numbers indicate like those high range indicates
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: mediocrity so mediocrity is a c plus to me obviously
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: there are elements that you know dylan dingler and by
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: far their, their best defender. I think Max Clark, a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: full season in center field is going to, you know,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: net a lot of benefits or Parker Meadows. If he's healthy,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: that obviously is a lot better. Uh, we know how metrics, uh,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: do torque. So I just think, I just think C
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: plus is fitting for me.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if I can go C plus. Uh,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: it's surprising to me that defensive run saved ranks them
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: so high. Cause again, watching those games didn't feel like it, man. Tigers, um,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Some misplays, some mental mistakes, some times where it just
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: didn't seem like you were well equipped to make plays.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised they don't rank higher than they did in errors.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: They had, what, the 11th fewest errors. Sometimes it felt
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: like they were making more errors than that. So I
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: guess I'll go with C, I guess. I don't even
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: feel great about that. I guess the numbers don't say
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: they're worthy of an F, but sometimes it felt like
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: they were an F. They were negative 14 defensive run
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: save from their outfield. In a big park, you better
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: have a better outfield than that. I'd give them somewhat
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: of a pass. The Parker Meadows injury really killed them
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: in that regard. They're playing Wenzel and Matt Vierling in
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: center for longer. James Outman, who actually was okay, really,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: really kind of saved them there for a little bit.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: But that really took a toll. Riley Green's defense continued
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: to dip into the negative. And because they were playing
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: some of those other guys in center, those guys weren't
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: able to play right as much. So you got dinged
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: a little bit in right field too. In a big
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: home ballpark, it's not what you want. And then one
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: of the things about the construction of this team that
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: has never made any sense, you have a pitching staff
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: that doesn't strike out a lot of guys. And you
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: have an infield with no range. You signed the preeminent
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: ground ball pitcher in the league, Frambois Valdez, and you
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: got Gleyber Torres behind him, and you didn't really know
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: what you were doing on the left side, and Say
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: what you want about Tork. I do think Tork is
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: somewhat better than the numbers give him credit for. There's
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: some legitimacy to the idea that the Tigers had kind
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: of drawn a line in the sand and told Tork,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: you know, don't go to your backhand side past a
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: certain point. Let the second baseman take care of that.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: That's why Glaber's numbers were a little better, why Tork's
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: numbers were a little worse. But overall, they didn't have
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: a great defensive infield, and they had kind of a
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: ball-and-play pitching staff. That's not a great equation. So those
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: are some simple things you would think you would like
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: to see the Tigers start to correct. Scott Harris has
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: talked a lot about thinking the next wave of guys
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: are better defenders. Look, we know McGonigal's pretty good. Max
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Clark's really good. So that, I mean, those are two
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: who can make a real difference. I'll be interested to see, like, okay, well,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: who else are we talking about here? Howie Lee, I
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: don't know. The numbers don't like him so far. Now
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Jerry can do some pretty good things for sure. How
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: much is he going to actually play next year? That's
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: a little bit TBD. I think Bryce Rayner is a
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: ways away still, although with a good year he could
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: start knocking on the door loudly by the end of
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: next season. But I don't necessarily see like, oh, there's
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: a whole wave of guys and they're all plus defenders.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I really see Max Clark and McGonigal, and that's really it.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: So how much of a difference will that make? Big
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: question going forward.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Maybe another lesson overall.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Well, one of the questions or one of the things
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: that the Tigers will have to do is probably try
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: to be a little bit more unison with player strengths
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and philosophical strengths in 2027 and beyond, because what you
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: just described is a little bit of a janky scenario. And,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: and maybe as some of these younger players start coming
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: up and coming into their own, that kind of solves
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: itself naturally.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: But, We shall see. I do think that is part
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: of the design, part of the plan. Yeah.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Speaking of that, you mentioned a couple times I had
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: it written down. So base running, I gave it a B.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: They're 14th in stolen bases and 24th in base running runs.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: So not great there. 18 stolen bases in September. Obviously,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: by far, they're most in a single month. Uh, as
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: they get younger, a little bit more athletic, maybe a
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: little proof of concept is what we saw in September. Uh,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I think this can be part of their game. They
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: have not made it part of their game. Uh, but
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a superpower like it had been in previous years,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: but I still think it was something that they could
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: hang their hat on in, in, in crucial situations was
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: taking the extra base. Um, But I couldn't give it–
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I thought about B. Myers here, but I gave it
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit of benefit of the doubt with a B.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Would they rank in base running runs again?
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Base running runs, they were 24th, minus 4.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: 24th in the league. That's not very good. And they
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: were still second in extra bases taken, the stat that
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: they got so much acclaim for. Now it dipped from,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I believe, 54%. which was historically good last year to 49%,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: but it was still second in the league. So to
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: still be 24th in a base running metric tells me,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what that tells me. A, they didn't
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: steal a lot. They ran into some bad outs, probably
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: in crucial situations. But to still be one of the
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: best at going first to third or second to home
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: or first to home, like that's pretty good. But you
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: also fired both your, base coaches. So I think just
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: for that simple fact, I'm going to go B minus.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I really like that they're so good at going first
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: to third, though. I think that's helpful. And I think
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: it was encouraging that they stole 18 bases with a
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: pretty high success rate in September. I think if they
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: can do a little more of that, I'm not saying
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: they have to be a top five steals team, but
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: if you can turn some of those first to thirds
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: into second to homes, guess what you get to do?
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: You get to score runs, which is the point of
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the game.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You love scoring runs, don't you, Cody?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I think scoring runs is a great thing to do.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Great thing to do.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, man.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: All that is fair, especially the point about the coaching
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: changes there.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Let's wrap up here, Cody. I wrote down some awards
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: for the team, and I just kind of want to
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: get your reaction to them, and you can kind of
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: take it in whatever– whatever direction you want so mvp
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: i went with kevin mcgonigal i think uh historic season
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: uh kind of speaks for itself but because he was
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: mvp i was like i don't really want to make
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: him rookie of the year all right he hasn't been
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: a rookie in my mind for a long time uh
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: so a couple of choices there i went with eduardo
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: valencia i think like what he showed could be like
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: a real difference in the team. I've talked about it
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: a lot the past couple of weeks, but I think
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: like what his upside is could make a real difference
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: in the construction and the overall upside of, uh, of
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: this team as if he's adequate behind the plate and
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: pretty fricking nice at the plate. Uh, I think that
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: does a lot in something that the tigers have never
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: had in the hinge era of like, you know, like
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: the elite catcher and then the backup with the, with
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the like real pop potentially.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Don't hate on Eric Haas. Come on. I guess they
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: didn't have the elite catcher in front of them. I
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: don't know. I think Jake Rogers, he wasn't an elite catcher,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: but in my mind.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Always, always. Always love Jake, love Eric, but it just
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: feels different. Cy Young was tough. I thought about Cater here,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: but I went with Troy Melton. Most improved, weirdly, Dylan Dingler.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: But you think about the jump that he made this year, like,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you know, from like pretty dang good to like, you know,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: for the majority of the season, like an elite catcher.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: And then you got to figure out kind of what
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: happened at the end there but i don't want that
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to overshadow what we watch over the course of 162
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: games and then if you if you look at the
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: breakdown for defensive run saved by position as you kind
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: of alluded to earlier uh catcher by far the best
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: so i'm going to give the gold glove award to
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: dylan dingler as well so McGonigal MVP.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why the whole DRS feels better. It was
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: just things happening behind the plate that we weren't actually
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: thinking about when the ball was in play.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So MVP McGonigal, non-McGonigal Rookie of the Year Valencia,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Cy Young, Troy Melton, Dylan Dingler, Most Improved, and Dylan Dingler,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Gold Glove.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those are all pretty good. MVP... It's McGonagall, man.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, Dingler obviously had his case as well. I
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: think he just tapered off a little bit too much
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: at the end. Did you know Dylan Dingler only had a,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: what was this, 553 OPS against lefties? Dylan Dingler should
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: be mashing lefties. He was one of the worst right-handed
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: hitters against left-handed pitching in baseball. It was very strange.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going McGonagall. The Cy Young stuff. You know who
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: the Tigers' leader in F-War was? It was Tarek Skubal.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: It was hurt. Threw less than 100 innings for the
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Tigers by Fangraph's wins above replacement. He was still their
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: best pitcher. Melton was really good there for a stretch,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: but he fell off as well. I'm giving my Cy
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Young to Tarek Skubal in fitting fashion. Non-McGonigal rookie of
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: the year. Valencia is certainly a deserving winner. I'll go
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Max Clark. I've talked about it before. Really, really wasn't
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: quite sure what to expect. Had some questions. Max Clark
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: did about everything you could want to see him do.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: He hit. 272. He got the ball in the air
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: at a decent clip. He hit fly balls at a 39.7% rate,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: which was higher than his fly ball rate in AAA.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: That was one of the things I was worried about.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Is he going to roll over too much when you're seeing.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: 98 with sink? He did a pretty dang good job.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: We'd like to see him start barreling the ball up
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: a little bit more next year. You look, his barrel
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: rate was very low, 2.1%. Controlled the strike zone for
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the most part. Makes a lot of contact, that was
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: certainly evident. And then played, you know, plus defense in
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: center field. He was worth, what, 1.4 wins above replacement
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: in a pretty small sample. Looked like a guy who
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: could be a 3-4 win player. as soon as next season.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: So I was really impressed with Max Clark, and overall
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: what he did makes me feel a lot better about
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: the entire construction of the team next year. So I'll
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: go Max Clark. Most improved? I think Dingler's a great candidate.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's true. Since you said him,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I'll say Drew Summers. Drew Summers was a guy who
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: you didn't know what he was. You didn't know if
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: you could count on him to a pretty dang nasty
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: reliever with some elite swing and miss metrics. That's a
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: good one. A guy who really makes you think what
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: the possibilities could be for him going forward. He really
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: took a huge leap and should be a huge, huge
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: part of next year's team. I'd give Cater Montero an
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: honorable mention, too. I mean, he's pretty good in 25,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: but what he did, stepping into a starter role and
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: really locking it down, was invaluable for the Tigers this year.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: And Gold Glove Dingler?
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Gold Glove. Dingler is probably going to win another Gold
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Glove or at least should be a finalist, so it's
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: pretty hard to go anyone else. But him, honorable mention,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I guess McGonigal certainly exceeded what I thought he was
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: going to be able to do, particularly at shortstop. And
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: add in the fact, hey, you're going back and forth
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: from third and short all the time. I thought that was... Impressive.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: McKinstry was really good and right when he was out there,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: but the only one who's a real elite defender is
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Dylan Dingler. Alright.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: So what do you guys think? Are our grades off?
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Do you agree with them? You guys can opine on
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: ex-formally known as Twitter at Cody Stavenhagen. I am at
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Kieran underscore StackleyPodPages at TigerTerritory underscore YouTube.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Apple, Spotify.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: If you guys get Get a chance, feel so inclined,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: hit that subscribe button. It helps us out a lot
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: as we continue to grow the show in the offseason.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: So I want to say thank you guys so much
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: if you've already done so. And if you're new here, welcome.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of fun doing this podcast and
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: hope you tag along throughout the offseason. So for Cody Stavenhagen,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody have a great day.