Latest / The Internal Move Podcast with Fexingo: Lateral Roles, Internal Transfers, and Staying at Your Company / The Hidden Power of Internal Transfer Reference Calls
Transcript
- Lucas: So last week I was talking to a friend who’s been trying to move into product management at her company for about six months. She’s done all the usual stuff — informational interviews with product managers, shadowed a couple of sprint reviews, even got her manager’s blessing to take on a side project with the product team. Luna: She checked a lot of boxes. So what’s the holdup? Lucas: Right, she’s qualified. But she kept hitting the same wall: when she applied for an open product role, the hiring manager would say they needed to talk to people who’d seen her do product work — and she didn’t have anyone prepped as a reference. Luna: Huh. So she’d been doing the networking but not the reference-building part. That’s a really common gap. Lucas: It is. And it’s the one I want to zoom in on today. Because when you’re applying for an external job, reference checks are a formality — you list people, they call them, done. But inside your own company, references are almost like a pre-vetting. They carry more weight because the person on the other end is a colleague, not an outside recruiter. Luna: And those internal references are often done informally, too — a Slack message or a quick call. So if you haven’t primed those people, you’re basically leaving it to chance. Lucas: Exactly. So here’s the tactic I want to unpack: doing what I call a ‘pre-emptive reference call’ with someone in or adjacent to the role you want, before you even apply. It’s different from an informational interview — the goal isn’t to learn about the role, it’s to audition for that person as a reference. Luna: Okay, walk me through how that actually works. Because it sounds awkward — you’re basically asking someone to vouch for you before they’ve seen you do the job. Lucas: It is a little awkward, but there’s a way to frame it that makes it natural. Let me give you a script. Say you’re in marketing and you want to move into product. You reach out to a product manager who’s a peer or one level above, and you say something like: ‘I’m exploring a move into product and I’d love your perspective on whether my skills translate. Could I share a bit about my background and get your honest take?’ Luna: That doesn’t feel pushy. It’s asking for feedback, not a favor. Lucas: Exactly. And during that conversation, you’re essentially giving them a mini-pitch of your relevant experience. You’re also signaling that you’re thoughtful about the move. After the call, you follow up with a thank you that includes a summary of what you discussed. Now that person has a positive impression of you, and if the hiring manager pings them later, they’re ready to say something specific. Luna: So you’re building a reference pipeline before you need it. That’s smart. But what if they give you negative feedback? Does that backfire? Lucas: It can, but that’s actually useful information. If someone says, ‘I don’t think your data analysis is strong enough for this role,’ you’d rather hear that before you apply, so you can address it — maybe take a course or volunteer for a data-heavy project. It’s better than getting rejected and never knowing why. Luna: Right. And it also helps you avoid using someone as a reference who wouldn’t give you a strong endorsement. You can pivot to someone else. Lucas: Precisely. So the friend I mentioned — she tried this with a product manager in a different division. She set up a 15-minute call, framed it as a ‘skill translation check,’ and came prepared with three specific examples of product-adjacent work she’d done. The PM ended up being impressed and later told the hiring director, ‘She’s the real deal.’ She got the interview, and eventually the offer. Luna: That’s a great outcome. But I imagine timing matters here. When do you make that call relative to the job opening? Lucas: You want to do it early — ideally before the role is even posted. That way, you’re not seen as angling for a specific job. You’re just exploring. And if the person you talk to ends up being on the interview panel, they already know you’re thoughtful. It’s a huge advantage. Luna: That’s the kind of inside track that external candidates just don’t have. And it’s completely fair game. Lucas: Completely. And it’s one of those things that a lot of people overlook because they focus on the formal application. But internal moves are often decided before the job description even goes live. Luna: You know, this reminds me of something a listener wrote in about — she called it a ‘practice reference’ and she used it to move from finance to strategy at a large bank. She said it was the single most effective thing she did. Lucas: I’d love to hear that story. What was her approach? Luna: She identified three people in strategy who she’d worked with tangentially — on cross-functional projects. She asked each for 15 minutes to ‘get their advice on a potential pivot.’ During the call, she walked them through her finance background and asked what gaps they saw. Two of them said she’d be a strong fit; one pointed out she needed more exposure to forecasting modeling. So she took a short internal course, and then mentioned it in her application. She got the job. Lucas: That’s textbook. She used the feedback loop to close a gap before it became a rejection reason. And she built relationships with people who then became advocates. Luna: Exactly. And I think that’s the deeper point here — it’s not just about getting a reference. It’s about creating a network of internal sponsors who know what you can do and are willing to say it. Lucas: Right. And that kind of sponsorship is what makes internal moves stick. Because once you’re in the new role, those same people can help you navigate the politics and the learning curve. Luna: So let’s talk about the actual ask. What’s the best way to reach out? Cold email? Slack? Lucas: I’d say email is better because it’s less intrusive and gives the person time to think. You want to keep it short: mention a connection point — maybe a project you worked on together or a mutual colleague — state your interest in exploring a similar role, and ask for 15 minutes of advice. Don’t use the word ‘reference’ in the initial ask. That can come later if the conversation goes well. Luna: And what if you don’t have any prior connection? Is it still worth reaching out? Lucas: It’s harder but possible. You can reference something they’ve worked on that you admire — maybe a product launch or a presentation you saw. That shows you’ve done your homework. Also, people inside the same company are generally more open to talking because there’s shared context and trust. Luna: That’s a good point. The bar for internal cold outreach is lower than external. You’re already on the same team, broadly speaking. Lucas: Yeah. And one more thing — after you do the call, send a brief note summarizing what you took away. That makes you memorable and shows you value their time. Then, a few weeks later, if you actually apply, you can circle back and say, ‘Thanks again for our chat — I’ve applied for the role and would love to keep you posted.’ That subtly invites them to speak up if asked. Luna: I like that. It’s respectful and strategic at the same time. You know, I think we’ve covered a really actionable tactic here. And it’s the kind of thing that doesn’t cost anything but time. Lucas: That’s actually a great lead-in to something I want to mention. A lot of the advice we give on this show comes from real listener stories and our own experiences. And the reason we can keep doing this ad-free is that some listeners choose to support the show at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. It’s a couple of dollars a month for some people, and it genuinely makes a difference. Luna: Yeah, it’s a small gesture that lets us keep the podcast independent and focused on what’s useful for you. No sponsors, no ads — just career strategies that work. Lucas: Exactly. And if you’ve ever gotten something out of an episode like this one, that’s the place to say thanks. Now, back to the tactic — I want to give one more example to cement it. Luna: Please do. Lucas: I had a colleague who moved from engineering to technical program management. He identified a senior TPM who he’d never worked with but who was well-respected. He sent a very short email: ‘I’m an engineer exploring TPM. I admire how you handled the X project. Could I buy you coffee for 15 minutes?’ They met, he asked for candid feedback on his project management skills. The TPM gave him three specific things to work on. He did them, applied six months later, and that TPM ended up being one of his references. He later said that call was the turning point. Luna: It’s a great story. And it shows that you don’t need a long history — just a thoughtful ask and the willingness to act on feedback. Lucas: Exactly. So if you’re thinking about an internal move, my advice is: before you update your resume or start browsing the job board, identify two or three people who could serve as references in your target role. Reach out for a ‘skill translation’ conversation. You’ll either get valuable feedback or a strong advocate — sometimes both. Luna: And either way, you’re better positioned than if you’d just applied cold. That’s a great note to end on. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.