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Double Dutch World Safari on 40 Years of Overlanding · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overlandural Podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady, and I'm joined today by Robert and Clary
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: of Double Dutch World Safari. Over the last twenty years
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on the road, they have visited one hundred and forty
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: four countries around the world, and they've used a couple
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: different kinds of expedition vehicles, from a smaller FUSO base
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: to the much larger one they're using today. We'll learn
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: about how they travel, we'll learn about how they live
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: on the road. They've got some great stories as well,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: so please enjoy my conversation with Robert and Clary, and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: as they say, remember you never never know until you
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: never never go. I also wanted to take a brief
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: moment to thank all of you for listening to the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Overlandural Podcast. By listening to this podcast and subscribing to
• 0:49
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• 1:02
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• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I sincerely appreciate your support, Robert, thank you so much
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: for being on the podcast with me today. Now you
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: are from double Dutch. Down Under is kind of your
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: call sign, but you have not only been down Under,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: you have been around and over and through most of
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the world. So I'm really honored to have you on
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the podcast today and to learn from your many decades
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: of travels around the world. You and your wife have
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: been an inspiration to so many. You have spent so
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: much time at the Overland expos talking about your journeys
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and inspiring future generations to have their own exploration around
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the world. You know, Robert, the first question I want
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: to ask for you is what inspired you to get started?
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Well, probably my mom and dad and my wife's parents.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: They've been camping as long as I remember, I think
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I was three years old when we went camping in
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Italy and Germany and Austria. From there, of course, we
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: took ovo, got married, we started camping and traveling around Europe.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: We migrated to Australia in ninety eight.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, so a long time ago.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, we've been there forty years. So
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: for one year so and of course.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Don't remind me. You start to think about the dates,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: it's like the eighties didn't seem that long ago. That's
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: so funny.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: So yeah. Actually, then, of course we realized I got
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: this huge outback and Australia of course is perfect for camping,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: and we decided to start traveling, initially in a tool
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: drive that became a for ward drive. The salesman, I'll
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: never forget, told me this card will go anywhere, you know,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And then they have first strip and we got right
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: on top of two rod switched up allowed me to
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: walk underneath the car, and I had no idea what
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: to do. So it was time to join the Forward
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: D Live Club.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I had a similar story. I ended up
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: getting sold a tool drive by a salesman. He says, look,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: it's got big tires on, it'll be fine, And of
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: course I got stuck very quickly. One question I have
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: always been curious of I have my own ideas. But
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: the Dutch are prolific travelers. I mean I have run
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: into and it's not a The Netherlands isn't a big country,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: so you know how why do you think that the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Dutch are so prolific as travelers.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's in their blood. They've been wheeling
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: and dealing all around the world. Form that's true a
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: hundred years ago. I mean they traveled around the world.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's just been in our blood. And I
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: mean and being such a small country, of course, yeah,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I mean it is easy to move in idea's time.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: You can drive to Italy and you can cover three
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: or four different countries. I think that's what it is.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: But that makes a lot of sense. And you're right,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: the Dutch they managed so many ports around the world.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: They really did. Yeah, I mean even I think they
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: had the only port that interfaced with Japan for the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: longest time.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I do know that Rotterdam is one of the
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: biggest ports in the world.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I mean I do know that.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, the ship's coming and going and I mean
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: and that, of course they supply the rest of Europe.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, seafaring country, Yes, absolutely, And if I'm not mistaken,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: isn't is that where the ferry leaves to go to,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: like the Pharaoe Islands and Iceland? Is that where that leaves? No?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: We when we that faerry goes from Denmark Denmark, Okay
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: and dors Haven I think it's ther name, and then
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: we go it goes to Faroe Islands, Iceland and the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: way back by the way, the Fire Islands is something
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: we did for a week. It's an amazing group of
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: little islands.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: It and when you decided to do the Pharaohs as
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I understand that a lot of people will do it
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: for a whole week because if you get off the ferry,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: you gotta wait wait a week for the next one.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Isn't that right?
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly? Yea true.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: We actually did Iceland in the winter and we got
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: we capped something like a hundred and eighty kilometer in
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: our winds while we're going across.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: That'd be exciting.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: We had to tie ourselves up to lay down in
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: our beds and Clarie got quite sick on the way.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And of course people got hurt and just before we
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: arrived at Iceland, helicopters had to take people from the ship.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: It was bad. Wow was an experience, and so you've
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: had some maritime adventures as well.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I was very worried about my truck sitting on needa.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I thought, is this going to stay in the same spot?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: But it was well intoly chained up.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: When before you moved to Australia in the nineteen eighties,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about your youth. What did
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: you do when you were young? Where did you go
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: to school? What was your discipline?
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I was under a terrible person at school, me too.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: The teacher loved me so much that many times could
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: go home earlier and all of a sudden it wasn't matter.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: It was the end of it. And my father got
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: to look pick him up and don't bring him back.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I got you.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: So I finished up working in retail, and from the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: retail I actually started into the hospitality industry DJ Barman Cool.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Then I went into the Marines, and from the Marines,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I finished up in the Caribbean and I did my
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: training with the American Marines in Fort Lauderdale and we
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: did viegos just out of Puerto Rico, and I think
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: that's where that's where I started thinking, hey, you know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: to have better places than in Natherlands.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: That's going somewhere else.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: We did our jungle training things like that.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: So when I came back out of the Marines, we
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: finished up. I finished up in the hospitality again and
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: then we run our own bar and nightclub, and basically
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty we left. You saw the business so well,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: it was more like a leasing type. I keep in
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: mind I was twenty years or twenty two years old,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: so we didn't have the money. But then I came
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: to Australia. Of course couldn't speak a word of English.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Meaning it takes a lot of that, takes a lot
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  Speaker 1: of courage to do that.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well it was. I mean you didn't
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: think well, I mean the thing was, of course, when
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I was in the Marines and when we were training
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: with the Americans, I always had somebody there who did
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: all the translations. And when we watched dav in Holland,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: you know, there was always subtitles. It was only when
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: we arrived in Australia that all of a sudden, our
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: first day at the airport I'll put the suitcase in
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: front of me, and the guy said open your suitcase,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: and I had no idea what the suitcase was. I said,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I've got no suitcase. And then my wife said open
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: this thing, run in front of you. But the guy
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: got annoyed with me. He thought I was joking.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Sure, sure, sure, Well, first of all, thank you for
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: your service, Thanks for being a marine and the service
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: that you've done. We've had many veterans on the podcast.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: So you make it into Australia and what did you
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: do when you got there? Did you just try to
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: find a job.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: While I was it was very funny, but of course
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: we came. We just sold our business or the lease,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: so we had a few dollars. So the first week
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: we stayed in the hotel. But I was looking for
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: a job from day one. And of course the minute
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I mentioned like, I went into the first pitza parlor
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I could find and they offered me a job as
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: a dishy and washing dishes. And then the guy asked me,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: what's your otherress, And when I told him I was
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: staying in the hotel sixty dollars a ninth, he looked
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: at me and that was the end of it. So,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I mean that was my weekly salary for one night.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: So it took a little while to get my feet
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: on the ground, but we finished up with I used
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: to in the beginning. I had two or three jobs. Clarie,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: my wife had two or three jobs. We worked, we worked,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: we saved the deposit. We were on a working holiday permit,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: but we cheated a little bit and we overstayed, and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: then we got an extension, and then we were told
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: that we had to leave the following year. And I
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: went and saw a solicitor and he borrowed me money
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: via a finance company. And at the time they wanted
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: to send me away. I asked him, who's going to
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: pay the mortgage and they said what mortgage? I said, well,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I just bought a house. He said, you can't. You
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: not let stay here any We had a cut of
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: long story short, I mean, I had to see the
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: immigration officer and I said, mate, look, I said, we
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: are I'm working, my wife is working. If I want
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to be on the door, I go back to holland you.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: In the fact, I came to austarlier the work and
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: he pointed behind me and said, look, all those people
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: behind you none of them are working. That costs a
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: lot of money. Anyway, he must have accepted it. But
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: three weeks later I got my permit.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: And we, of course have we loved ever since. I mean,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: it became it was a holiday, It came a holiday
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: and it was still a holiday.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And what was it about Australia that inspired you
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: to go there? Of all the places in the world.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I think the only the only thing I can think
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: of is my time in the Marines, my time in
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: the Caribbean. Beautiful at the sunshine, and of course that's
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: what Australia is all about. And of course we heard
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: about the ad back and all the exploring you can do,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: the days and weeks and months you can travel without
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: seeing people if you don't want to.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd had enough gray skies and cloudy days and.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Rain around about three and twenty.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, that's right, exactly. Oh cool. So when you
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: you spent some time in Australia, you bought a tool.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: What was the first forward drive that you bought?
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Was it this? And patrol?
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Oh it's a good choice and short wheelbase. It's probably
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: still running somewhere.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'm sure of this. And I mean we did
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: it up. Of course, well initially, as I explained before,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: we got stuck. Well and truly due to fact. The
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: salesman told me this guy can do anything, and I
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: learned very quickly that wasn't the case. And after that
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: we then joined the forward drive club. We did a lot,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of forward driving, steep hills, hard forward driving
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: where the wheels go forward and the car goes backwards. Yeah. Sure,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And then I realized that for a couple of years
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: we're going to upgrade a little bit, and of course
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: had to do with money. We were making a little
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: bit more money so we could afford a bigger car,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: and sure became the land Cruiser sixty series a good choice,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: graded to the eighty series, upgraded to the one hundred series,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and just lately, only last year I bought the new
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: three hundred series.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: So now that you've had Nissan Patrols and just about
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: every version of a land Cruiser, which one was your favorite?
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Definitely the Lenkuza, which was well, I think the three
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: hundred series I haven't really put to the test yet model,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: but the one hundred series was amazing.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: An amazing?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: You had the one hundred, not the one oh five. Yeah,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: would you have the solid axle in the front or
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: was it independent?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah? But the one oh five I don't think that
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: is available in Australia. We only have the one hundred series.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, only the independent you got it? Or maybe the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: one o five is only small numbers.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about what they used.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: In the US. Sure, sure, sure, we only we only
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: got the one hundred, so we only had the one
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: with the independent suspension in between.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: You also had the two hundred series, of course we did,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: but that was while I was traveling. Uh And of
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: course we never actually purchased a two hundred series.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: So now when you started, what made you decide that, Okay,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of Australia, we've really enjoyed ourselves.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Now we want to go see the rest of the world.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: What what was the impetus for that? What kicked you
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: off to do that?
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Basically, in my time as a member of the Toyota
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Lenkuz Club, I became their tour guide. That's volunteer work.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: We traveled all around Australia for many, many years, and
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden when we In that time,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: we had our own business and we decided to go
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: around Australia on a four year trip, covering all the
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: areas we normally did in a short holiday or in
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: a weekend trip, et cetera. And one night, we're sitting
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: next to the campfire, the two of us, we traveled
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: on their own, and we just looked at each other.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I said, look, we've done Australia now for the last
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: twenty years. We've just done four years around Australia. Why
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: don't we just go overseas And Clark said to me,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I'd love to of course, and we were a bit inspired. Also,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Ron Moon is a good friend of ours. We were
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: going to join him, but it didn't work out with
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: our new business. So basically we after we made a
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: decision around the campfire, we've gone in eight months. You know,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: in Australia we say don't don't become a gunner. If
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you want to become a gunner, you have to be
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and join the army.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: That's right, yeah, But.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: The otherwise you'd become I'm gonna do this, gonna do that,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: gonna do this, and twenty years later you're still gonna
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: do it. But you never did. So we said let's go,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: and we did, and we started in Africa.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: And what what what vehicle did you prepare for that
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: first trip? Michi Fusouso four four, So the f G
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: four four here.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we bought a cap seshi and we actually designed
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: our own unit on the top based on our off
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: road Caravenger the fact we knew that worked.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure, So you had a similar layout to your
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: caravan absolutely, yeah nice. And then did you on that
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: particular vehicle that would have been early enough that it
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: still had the transfer case with a low range and
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: it could use just about any diesel in the world, right.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it was. It was a simple engine and
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: it had four well drive. It was just a very
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: good capable veg.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I think. So I've always I've always been so impressed
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: by them. I had the opportunity years ago to use
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: an earth Cruiser in Australia and I drove it around
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and I took it on the ferry out to Fraser Island,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and you know, you know, that's quite an experience that
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: ferry because they kind of back up to the sand
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: and off you go. Point that's right, that's right. They
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: kind of throws you right into it. But I was
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: so impressed by that vehicle it's capability, and then the
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: fact that you had the house on the back of
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: it was very comfortable as well.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's exactly what we realized when we
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: drove the car. And of course earth Cruser we also
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: looked at that unit kim Bolton at the time and Lanced.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: They were both running earth cous Australia at the time,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: and but it was just that I had a different
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: we we had a slight different idea about how we
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: wanted to have a la at and that's when we
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: decided to go to the guy who built my off
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: goat cameraman. I got him to build my climit on
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: the back.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Now did you have it where it was a lifting
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: roof or was it all solid?
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Initially it was a lifting roof. But after a while,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and after two years in Africa, that roof we had
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: some issues with it. Sure, and when I arrived in
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Europe and then also realized the course we also have
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: to cope with cold weather. Sure, we actually made the
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: solid roof while we were in Europe.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Oh that's clever. So you just you just converted it.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: You put in solid panels and windows and everything else. Yeah,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: that's smart. Then you didn't have to buy an all
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: new camper.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: No no, no, no no.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: So when you when you shipped from Australia, where did
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you ship into?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Initially we shipped to South Africa Durban.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Sure, And while we were waiting for the boat to arrive,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: we actually rented the car and did Indonesia and Borneo,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Sarawak Kalim, I mean amazing places, incredible.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: So you so you land in Durban and tell me generally,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: what was your route through Africa?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: In Africa, we initially did Durban, went north to Cozy Bay.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: From Cozy Baby, we went back inlane and worked our
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: way via Kuger all the big parks and then finished
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: up in Cape Down.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Having Cape Down, we did the garden Root on the
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: on the sun side and then into.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he went and if I remember hearing your story,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: you went through Lusutu and you're in this big truck
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: and you come to the edge of Sonny Pass. Correct,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So tell me how that went. Well.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: When my wife said, Robert, this is it. Stop, we
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: turn around, everyone else told me you are not allowed
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: to drive this truck. Down whether it was around about
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I think eight or ten kilo to the bottom and
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: basically eight eight point turns with the font of the
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: cap hanging over the edge. And of course when the
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: truck was on an angle, it was all very rocky.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: It didn't matter if we were in gear or not.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: The rocks will give away and the car will go.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: So the end result was I had to drive it
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: down on my own and Clarie followed me walking.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: She was taking pictures. We just got a nod from her,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: she's sitting on the couch here in the studio. Yeah.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I drove up that pass in a very small compact
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: gew Wagon and it was challenging enough in the gew Wagon.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: So and you went down it. Yeah, so you had
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: all that weight, all that weight trying to push it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: You were going to get to the bottom one way
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: or the other, weren't you?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And the place when we got to the bottom, they
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: weren't too happy. But of course that's where the borders,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that's right. And but yeah, our truck is seven and
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: a half was that was our first truck was seven
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: and a half tone. I don't know what that.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Is in about fourteen pounds. Yeah, yeah, so that's a
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: heavy vehicle. The one the one thing about that Fusu
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Fuso though is they were never they were never too
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: long of a wheelbase, and they had a really great
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: turning radius and you could, you know, because your cab
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: over you can really see what you're driving over. You know,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you can have a great view of the trail.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Well, there were two things we of course bought. The
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: short wheel base. We didn't want to have the long wheelbase.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: The fact when you go over to San Hill and
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Rocks or whatever, you don't want to hang yourself up
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and yeah, you're right, I mean you shit right above
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the wheels. I mean, and that's what we want from
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: a full driving point of view. You want to be
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: right on top and you know where you wheels.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: That, yeah, and then you can see the train right exactly.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So you were probably looking over the cliff yourself.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I los I lost, but I didn't want to.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: That's cool now.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And you spend some time at the highest pub in.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Africa, Yes, absolutely, we spent two nuts there, you know.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And the thing that really gets people in that pub
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: is that you're I think you're around nine thousand feet
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: so what would that be sometime or somewhere around four
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: thousand meters or something like that. Off. Okay, right, so
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you're at pretty good elevation and you have a couple
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: of cocktails or you have a few beers and you're
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: feeling it.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: And when you wake up in the morning, when you
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: look down the valley, of course you'd be above the cats,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: which is a really amazing.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Amazing thing.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And the local the nomads who live around there, of
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: course they come and visit and they they see the
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: truck and they have the same one. Yeah, and I
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: want to have a look.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing people. They because it's so cold and the
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: weather is so bad there. You know, they look like
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: they're look they look medieval, you know, the way that
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: they've got these hoods over their head that comes down
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: like chain mail, and and they've got these heavy blankets
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: over them. I mean, they look like there's something right
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: out of right out of a movie. Incredible people. Yeah, yeah,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: really really special part of the world. All right. So
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: you get through Lusutu and then what was your next
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: most favorite thing that you experienced in your trip across Africa.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I think see Africa for me is the number one
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: overlanding destination.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: No question.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And I mean the people are amazing. I can't really
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: pick something which would be the best. All the experiences
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: we got were very good. May it be cultural and
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: meeting some people while they have a festival in their
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: little village would be tied to camp as much as
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: we can away from the big city. So we ask
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: for permission if we can camp in a small village
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: somewhere on the side. And of course then you get
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: invited the wildlife, I mean, will be having a barbecue.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, CLARKI turns around, said Robert,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: look behind you, and within ten meters of us, four
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: lines just walked straight past us. That was in sat
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Luenga in chamber.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Or they could smell the barbecue, well.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: They did, but they were looking at us, but they
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: kept walking. I mean, another probably amazing experience was with
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: the chimpanzees, with the gorillas on the border with the
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Congo and Zambia. Of course in Ruwanda. I mean, those
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: things are amazing and they all amazing experience. Having settled
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: that in Ruanda, going through the genocide history, et cetera,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: et cetera, that was actually quite maybe for CLARKI even
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: was actually depressing. Well, one night, we were actually sitting
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: at the river and we talked about twenty ten, and
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden there was trouble and six that
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: body is just floated past, and of course I said,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's time to leave. We went back to Uganda. Yeah,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: but yeah, the experiences, I mean, we went to the
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Mercy Tripe in Ethiopia, we did Mozambique. Everything in Africa
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: is the east coast probably is slightly better than the
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: West coast.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: As I understand. You know, I've only done the east
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: side and Sudan.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Even places like Sudan, they were amazing. We met some
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: we stayed in small villages, We stayed with people. You
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: get invited into their houses, you get offered food. Yeah, Africa,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I can't pick one thing which I probably I said, look,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't like it. I mean in Ethiopia maybe in
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: fact they were all standing next to the road with
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: the hand up in fact after handouts. But no Africas
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: for me, the number one that's today. We've been there
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: four years in two years in twenty ten, twenty twelve,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: and two years in fifteen and sixteen.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, so then you drove the length of Africa, you
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: come up into Egypt and where did you go from there?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: The first trip, we actually we were on our way
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: to Libya exactly when the Whenka Duffy trouble started. So
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: we actually backtracked to Sudan into Saudi Arabia, worked our
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: way to.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: The Middle East through Syria.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Syria another amazing country, and so was Saudi Arabia for us.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: The only thing was my steering wheel is on the.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Right hand side.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: And of course women in those days. I think it's
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: changed a bit now, but in those days women were
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: not allowed to drive, and what happened was every roadblock
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: we got stopped to the fact that they thought Clari, my
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: wife was driving. Anyway, with all this, plus the fact
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: that the ferry we were on from Sudan to Saudi Arabia,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: that ferry was delayed, to the fact there was so
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: many illegals on board and that they had to get
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: them off the boat. The rest had to go to
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Mecca for the hush. Anyway, so we were late already
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: in Saudi and one night we were driving towards the
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Jordan border, and as you know those freeways, they got
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: fences around him to keep the camels away. But I
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: mean in Saudi Arabia, they do two hundred and fifty
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: kilometers an hour in miles.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know what really fast.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: So all of a sudden we saw a little hole
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: in the fence and I just drove my truck in there,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: and I could see on my GPS, which was not
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: allowed in those days, but I could see that the
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Red Sea was runn about twelve k's away. There was
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: a dirt dirt track through the sand hills, and we
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: just set up camp and within probably an hour, all
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, I could hear all his noise and
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I said to Clarky, get dress, get dress with I
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: mean Clarkiy had to completely be covered up. And it
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: was like a Mad Max movie. All of a sudden,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: this big land cruiser with a machine gun on the
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: back came over the sand hills. And because this guy
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: looked at me and he says, I'm a mana Makina mahonna,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I said, look me, tourist, tourists. Anyway, we couldn't get
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: anywhere with him, but he took my passport and he left,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: and two hours later he came back with my passport,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: and of course the message was where he had somebody
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: with him. Good speak English, and he said, tomorrow morning
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: you go and see the commander. We did never realize
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: we were on army terrain. Oh no, anyway, I didn't
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: want to take the rest. So the next morning, very early,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I took off quickly towards the border with Jordan. And
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I can tell you the whole trip I've been looking
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: over waiting for somebody, but nothing happened.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: It was all good, yeah, good, good, good good. So
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you went into Jordan and then from there into Syria.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Now the what you was at that was actually right
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: when the war started eleven.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you had the opportunity to see Syria when
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: it was still so incredible, before it had been destroyed.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: It's again amazing county. We went to places like Palmira,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: the right border. Sure, we went to a Lepo Damascus.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: The funny thing is, actually I never realized this, but well,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: we were in Syria and all of a sudden we
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: take pictures everywhere, And when I got home, I realized
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: that when I was in the Muscus, there was a
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: guy in the background, and then I was in Permier,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: the same guy in the background, and then I was
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: in the Lapo and the same guy and they've been
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: following us. We didn't know, but the people have been
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: amazing and we really got looked after in the Mescus,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: very very well by a local family who lived in
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: the outskirts of the Mescus. And I wonder what happened
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: to those poor people to the fact there is nothing
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: standing there anymore.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just breaks your heart because there's there's so
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: much history there and it stood for thousands of years
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: and then you know, most of it destroyed in a moment. Yeah,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: lessons for all of us, isn't it? Absolutely?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I always say, and I said that
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: on the expole this weekend. I mean, if people would
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: travel a lot more around the world, the world will
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: be in a hell of a lot better place. It's
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: a shame a lot of people don't travel, and it's
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: a shame that so many people are scared. You the
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: fact you don't have to be scared. But as a doist,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: you're not really a target unless you be at at the.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Wrong or you're doing something you're not supposed to do.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: You know, when you go into a bar, don't hit
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: on somebody's girlfriend. You don't do that in your hometown.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Don't do it in the middle of wherever. Don't do it.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Don't do it in Peru. You know, it's like it's
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: not gonna it's not gonna work out well for you, exactly.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: And basically respect their their culture and everything else. I
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: mean we are the guests, you know. I mean, even
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: though we maybe don't like it, we maybe don't agree
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: with it, it's their country that if you don't like it,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: you know, you.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Can leave, exactly, can go someplace else. So speaking about that,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: what are some other things that you and your wife
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: have learned in your travels that you share with others
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: that you you love For other people to know that
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: are getting started with travel.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I think the best lesson is that, as I said before,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: you have to integrate with the local population and do
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: what the locals do. You know, when in Rome, what
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: the Roman zoo, When in Syria, do what the Syrians do.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: When in India, same story Incombodia. I mean, you don't Mongolia.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: You do what the locals do, and if you don't
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: like it, well then you have to move on. But
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I mean don't argue with him to the fact. You know,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: it's a little bit like if I traveled to Iran,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: and Pakistan, and we get invited in somebody's house. The
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: first thing most people will say, what do you think
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: of us in the West. And when you get into
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: the house, even though the ladies are all covered up,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: but when you get into their house, they have jeans,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: they have nice shirts, and the girls look very sexy
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: and very nice. But the minute they get outside. Not
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: in Tibet, we had a As you know, in Tibet
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: you need a guide. You can't drive on your own.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: So we traveled all around Tibet and also all around
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: China in two different trips. And initially we had a
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: guy who came from Beijing. We met up with him
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: at the border with Kigistan and we were going to
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: cross to Tibet. He couldn't even speak to Tibetan language.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: And of course he was basically not a guide. He
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: was a spy and he was a minder yeh, And
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I mean he had no he could not even talk
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: to the language. So on the end of it, we
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: got a bit annoyed with him and we got rid
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: of him. But the problem is when you get rid
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: of him, you can't drive any further due in fact,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: the first checkpoint to be stopped, so the agency organized
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: a new guide. This guide was living in Larsa, and
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: he got on our car and he was talking about everything,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: what happened to his family, his parents, and how the
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Chinese put a lot of pressure on him. And then
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden we went into the Puttala patals
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: and I kept asking questions, but he never said anything.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: When we got back in the car, he said, Robert,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: you ask me any question you like in the car.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Do not ask me any questions on the street or
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: in the building.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: You know, there was a lot of there's a lot
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: of things happening in Tibetan, a lot of Chinese moving in. Sure,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of things happening there. Which that's what we
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: learned that all of a sudden. You know, even the
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Chinese people we see around the world, they are either
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: part of the Communist party, but the majority of the
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: people have no passport and not allowed to leave country.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, challenging for so many people around the world. Ye.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: So now you you've gone from Africa, you've gone through
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: the Middle East, and now you're back in the West.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: So you're back in Europe. Did you drive home?
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: No? We actually, well we did we did paka Oka
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: in Netherlands. Of course, at that states my mom and
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: dad was still alive. Claud's mama, dad was still alive.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: But from there, of course we went east Ukraine, Russia, sure,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: and worked our way all the way down to Singapore.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: What what? What did your family? How was it because
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: you had been by this point in time, you had
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: been gone for over twenty years. Yeah, and you're you're
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: now coming home. How was it, you know, trying to
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: reconnect with your friends and your family. How did that go? Well?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: That went quite well, I mean, but it is amazing
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: what changes if you haven't been there a long time.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I got lost in my own country. I didn't you
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: know what happen hear what happened there? So but we
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: were lucky that we met. My parents flew to Australia
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: in between. Clardy's farents have been to Australia. So but
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: my long term friends, the people I used to work
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: within the bars and the night clubs, and they were
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: all there and it was like, oh, but it's like
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: you never left. Yeah.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Sure, it's interesting. How, like you said, travel changes us
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: so much that oftentimes we can be we can change
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: so much that we can't relate to like the friends
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: of our childhood, or sometimes even to our own family.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So it can be difficult to be gone for that
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: long like you guys were, and then try to reintegrate
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: a little bit.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing is that we had so
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: many experiences in that time frame. When you get invited
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: in somebody's house and you're going to tell them in
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: ten minutes what you did, they look at you, I think,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: hang on, how old are you too? Ll not? You know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: So that is the hardest pot. You have to be
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: very careful after you've been traveling so long, don't tell
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: him everything in five or ten minutes. You're the fact
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: that just goes that that that don't don't believe.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Just can't they can't process it exactly. Yeah, yeah, you know.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: It's interesting the vehicles that have come out of those
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: kinds of situations, Like the g Wagon was all paid
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: for the engineering and everything else like that by the
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Shah of Iran, and then he gets deposed and now
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Mercedes has all of these all this ip, all this,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: all these assets, and then they just started making the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: car for themselves because they didn't they didn't have a
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: customer any longer.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I couldn't believe it. Colonel Goduffi was the biggest
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Mercedes Benz dealer in Northern Africa. And even when we've
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: we traveled as fast sat As, Mali and Algeria, all
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: the big five style hotels, we're all air presidents and
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: everyone else state they were all owned by Gaduffy.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: So on the one hand, we boy called him. On
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: the other end, we spent money with him.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: So that's how the world goes around exactly. So you
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: you go across Russia and you did you go to
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: a floody of Astok or did you go to Magaden? No?
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: We we actually we didn't go to Magadan for the
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: simply I would love It's still on my bucket list. Sure, Maggadan,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: I want to do in the winter. And when what
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: the time we arrived at Lake Baiko, the winter was
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: nearly over. It started it warm up and we were
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: really Then we wanted to go to the Nadam Festival
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: in Mongolia. To the fact that it's just an ancients
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: call it an Olympic game stype setup. It's incredible, yeah,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: and we wanted to see that. So we basically instead
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: of going north to Madigan to follow the Medigan line,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: we went to Mongolia. Yeah, well, otherwise we had to
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: come all the way back unless we wanted a ship
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: to Japan, which we we didn't do.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Now, how was it? How was it going through the Gobi?
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: That's something that's really interesting to me. When I did Mongolia,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: it was the northern route. I took the northern route
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: across because it was a less traveled route, so I
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: never made it into the Gobi. How was that the Goby?
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Actually, for me, the Goby was nice, but quite touristy.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: We did the same thing when we crossed into Mongolia
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: from Russia. We did the northern out all the way
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: to basically to the western part of Mongolia, and then
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: went back through the middle. And when we got back
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: to the Middle, we finished up in Ulambatar, of course,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: and then we took the dirt tracks to China, and
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: that was very interesting. When you're driving and driving you
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: either come over. We had bad weather. We had a
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: lot of rain there, so there was mud and then
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden you're standing on top of a hill.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: There are no signs, so it's not and you see
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: tracks going left, right, left, Which one do we take
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: and of course when you ask somebody, they just say
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: go straight ahead. And so we we did the go
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: we does it as in I think we did it
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: in a week or ten days out of Ulambatai and
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: we just followed the touristy tracks. But the most interesting
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: part was that road all the way to the Chinese border.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Well not road. You just drive over grass, you know,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: that's all you do.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: It's like a gigantic lawn. It's amazing. It goes off
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: in every direction.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: The mix of mud and sand.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: And every once in a while you'll see there'll be
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: a bridge over a big river, or there'll be a
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: couple of girls with some families, and that's about it.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: There's just not much out there.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Nothing. I mean, we we actually it took us to
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: and a half days. We got lost to the fact
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: the GPS doll is roughly where we had to go.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: The problem was you had to make left and contend
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: too well. The GPS tels you to go straight ahead,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: but you couldn't, so you had to go around. You
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: had to come back and find your.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Way and sure, which is all part of the fun, is.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and we travel on our own, you know, a
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: lot of people say, oh, you should have gone in convoy,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: but we on our own, we like it. We have
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: a satellite phone. Yeah so if something needed Yeah.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of that, you know, in your in your
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: decades now of travel, have you ever had to get
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: that kind of help where you had to get on
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: the sat phone and the vehicle was really broken? Have
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: you ever had that come up? Never?
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: I mean we never. I mean I service my car.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I'm completely a technical. I can check what the oil
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: looks like and that's about it. I service my car
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: every fifty thousand kilometers. We have had breaks like everyone else.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I mean we've done all up. I think it had
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: about four hundred thousand miles, you know. But I serviced
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: service it. And I had a diff gone once that
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: was a warranty thing. I had two flat tires. That's
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: all we had. But for the rest, no, just but service, service, service.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I service it all the time. Here I go to
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: the to the Garrits. Yeah.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: So you you do the trip through Southeast Asia and
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: that was the last of the journey in the Fuso.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: And where did you buy this Mercedes truck? Where did
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: you get that from?
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: The Mercedes Cluck came for sale in Libya, fixed up
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: in the Germans, took all the cars away, did the
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: fact that AFY hadn't paid for those ones sitting in
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: the showroom, and we bought it in Germany. The problem
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: with the car was, of course it's still had the
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: machine gun on it, the infrared that we could never
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: get it registered, so it had to be reregistered, so
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: all that had to be taken off. The only thing
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: we never took off was the bomb proof steel plate
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: on the rear of the Capseshi and we built actually
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: our unit on top of it.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: That's interesting now you you built this, You had this
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: unit built your camper, you know conversion, you had that built.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Where did you have that built?
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Building? The Netherlands? Okay, it was my design again same
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: as the previous except we made it slightly bigger, but
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: have a motorbike in it. Oh nice, So we have
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: a motorbike separate, comes in and out on the crane,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: and so that meant that we had to make the
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: unit one meter or three feet.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: In longa And what kind of a motorbike do you
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: have in the back?
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: T Suzuki one fifty. Actually, I don't know if you
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: guys call it a motorbike. We call it the scooter,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: but there's one hundred and fifty CEC perfect. It's only
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: for sightseeing shopping, so.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: You don't have to drive the truck around.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Well, if you're in small places like Nepal and India, Abuta,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: all those places there were very narrow streets and the
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: historic centers are small. Cap was we got stuck between
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: two walls in We've taken some pair of lines down
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: those startle things. Basically, that's when the scutter is the
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: way to go.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It's your scout vehicle. Yes, you can go check out,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: check out the road ahead.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: But Clary will tell me very quickly. You know, I
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: call it the handbrake.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Well, it's because she knows what's best for you. Awesome. So,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: speaking of that, what are some lessons that you guys
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: have traveling together. What are some things that you found
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: helped to make you guys successful as a couple traveling
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: around the world.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to say. We've always worked together. So
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: for us, we've always been together a long time. Accept
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: my time in the Marines, I was away of course,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: but I mean since we basically migrated to Australia, we've
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: always been together. I don't know what I hear. Some
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: people have got all kind of couple and issues. I
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: don't think we have that. I mean, I'm responsible for
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: the car. Where are we going? Clarie does cooking, but
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I mean I couldn't boil a neck, you know, so
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: clarkly does the cooking, and I think, yeah, that is
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: about it now. Having said that, of course, if it
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: gets a bit rough, then Clark will say, Robert, this
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: will do me turnaround or we park here, you know. Yeah,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: we never yeah, we never have any issues. Really, I
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: mean you have your we call it domestics in Australia
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: nowhere every now and then, I give you an example.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: We were in.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: India, and as you know, in India, traffic is horrendous.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: A two lane road becomes four lanes and if possible,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: they will also take the footpath. So we were on
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: one of those roads and all of a sudden and
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: the traffic lights. Of course, it doesn't matter if it's green,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: orange or atte. I mean, it is just there for
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: the color. I mean, no one cares. And somebody guy
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: on the motorbike crossed the road, got driven over and
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: was dead, and he was laying ten meters in front
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: of my truck, but there was only one car in
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: front of it, and I wanted CLARKI to put that
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: on video and Clarie of course didn't want to do this.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: And that's when we had a bit of a domestic fact.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: I said, hey, how do I explain this to somebody
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: in Australia because and then matters got worse. Well, what
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: happened was everyone's beeping the horn and all of a sudden,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: somebody jumps out of the car, picks up to that body,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: throws it on the foot path and everyone starts driving.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: And I would have I would have liked to have
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: that on my video, but m Clarky was absolutely against it.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: And that's when we have every now and then a
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: few words.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: And but that makes sense because everybody has a different
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: experience or a different expectation. So as a couple trying
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: to find a way to get calmon ground, I guess.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And that's it. Yeah, And I mean the
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: other thing is I don't think we touched on the
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: corruption bit. You know that is also sometimes Yeah, you know,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: if somebody is really going to give you a hard time,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I mean I give him a bit of a hard
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: time back and then clarily says, Robert, you know, take
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: it easy, take it easy. I mean, we had some
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: really nice stories I can tell you about places in
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Zimbabwe or whatever where all of a sudden we made
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: the funny out of it, and that just let us go.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, no, and think I think just a smile
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: and some respect, And what I like to do is
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: just tell them how beautiful their country is. And it's true,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: because that's why I'm there. I want to see Malawi
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: or wherever. So I think complimenting their country, telling them
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: how much, how grateful you are to be there, I
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: think it makes them a little more conscious of the
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: fact that they are being corrupt in the way that
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: they're treating me as a guest. So usually it makes
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: it a little bit easier.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: In my experience, when we were in Zimbabwe, I might
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: as well tell the story. That would have been two
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: thousand and nine ten and Mugabi was still in charge. Sure,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: and of course we were just Actually we met up
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: with some other people who we met in Mozambique before,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: and as in people who lived there, and all of
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: a sudden we're just reading in the paper that Mugabi
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: was happy for the police and everyone else to get
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: a bribe on the roadsie the fact that means he
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: didn't have to pay much money. And you wouldn't believe it.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Within a day, were just outside Harare. I got stopped, sir,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: criminal offense. And of course in Zimbabwe they speak broken English, sir,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: criminal offense. You're driving too fast. And I just looked
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: out of the window. My truck is high. I looked
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: down at him and said, and I got the map
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: of the world next to me on the door. I said,
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: I come all the way from Australia over the ocean. No, no, no, sir,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: you you driving too fast. I said, we arrived in
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: South Africa. We went all the way around South Africa.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Sir, sir, you you criminal offense. Then we came to
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: you a beautiful country, Zimbabwe. We like Mugabe. Sir, you
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: driving too fast from Mugabe. From from Zimbabwe, We're going
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: to Malawi. And then he put his hands up in
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: the air and he said.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Go.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, And that can be helpful for sure.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: And I mean on the end of the laugh when
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: he let me go, he laughed so obviously you know
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: you have to play the game. I got stopped. Actually
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: the probably the nastiest thing we ever had. When I
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: say Nasi, it wasn't as bad. But we came from
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Ethiopia into Sudan, and obviously Sudan is boycott and you
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: can't There is no Sudanese pans. She can't buy them
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: anywhere except on the black market. So when we got
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: to the border between Ethiopia and Sudan, I asked what
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: we normally do, Hey, listen any good deals or money,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: but you know you want to shop around and don't
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: use the bank or they're too expensive. And the guy said, yeah, yeah,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I know somebody, that guy over there. Okay, thank you.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: So we walked up with two hundred dollars wanted to
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: change it for Sudanese pants. As we were doing the transaction,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I just got grabbed from behind. You arrested for illegal
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: money trading. And they took me to the police station
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: and locked me up. Anyway, after twenty or thirty minutes,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: they were saying they were trying to give me a
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: hard time, and there was a guy said in the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: far corner, and he never said much, and all of
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: a sudden the arresting officer which we were waiting for, arrived,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: guess what that was the bloke who told me who
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: to use. He just wanted money, And at that same
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: time Clarie walked in. But after an hour Clarie had enough.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: He was taught to wait in the car, and he
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: was sitting there with the money in front of him,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: and Clarie just grabbed the money and all he said
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: was you want to be arrested too, And at the
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: same time it sounded like a movie. But at the
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: same time, a couple of the locals started fighting with
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: each other within the police station and they let us go.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Might have done amazing, Yeah, yeah, So, I mean that
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: are the things that's the worst. If I think of something,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: what will be the worst in twenty years of travel,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: what we've been on the road twenty years, I mean,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: that would probably be the worst thing I can think of.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing. Well, you know, that's the common story is
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: that people have wonderful experiences exactly. You know, there certainly
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: can be things that go wrong, but I think just
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: being a little bit mindful, you're usually okay. So I'm
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: really curious pivoting the conversation a little bit towards the
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: big truck. What what have you found helps you make
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: good decisions around driving such a large vehicle. What are
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: some rules that you have or how do you address
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: small small villages? How do you deal with the power lines?
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: How do you you know, when you come across the
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: bridge that says it's a three ton bridge and you
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: or a three and a half ton bridge and you
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: got a ten truck ten ton truck? What are some
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: how are some ways that you deal with that?
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Well, actually let's start with the last one. But that's
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: quite funny. We were in Uzbekistan, and of course we've
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: been driving a dirt track, which is the fact that
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: was the scenic good And after probably three on a kilometers,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden we got to a bridge, and
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: that bridge at three and a half town and I'm twelve.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: So then Clari walked over the bridge, and of course
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: the plates were loose, loose, loose, and it was meters
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: or maybe forty, I don't know, and I said the
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: clarky look walked to the other side, foot down and
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: up we went. And it went okay. I mean we
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: have had many, we have had many in those type
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: of countries. I mean, some of them don't tell you
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: what the way this is, you know, but if that
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: particular one that told us, but the option was nearly
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: a thousand kilometer trip around and we didn't want to
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: do that. So I went around in the smaller villages
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: in particularly in Pakistan and India and those type of places,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: you have a lot of low lying pair lines and
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: we've hit a few and now a time. In fact,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I hit a real big one in pokaar In in
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Nepal where basically the whole village was out of power
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and whau was broke and I got a huge burning
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: mark on the on my roof and then the guy
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: came up. He said, you better move. You made a
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: move and if the logos, you know, the logos were
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: you soon you'll be paid. And he helped me what
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: we had to get those cables off the car, and
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: the cables fell in between the cap and.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: They're living in that's terrifying.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: But within ten minutes three guys on motorbikes with guns
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: right behind me, and of course you pay, you pay,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: and I had to stop. I jumped out of the car.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: I told him I was going to park on the
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: end of and it was another ten or fifteen kilometers
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: away and I told them, look, come and see me
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: over there, I said, But I said, there's nothing I
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: can do now, and they left. And when I parked there,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: I said to the local guy, I said, hey, the
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: police will be turning up shortly due to the fact
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: I hit power lines there. He said, well, Robert, those
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: power lines they are too low anyway, and the police
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: won't turn up to the fact they haven't got the
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: money for the field to come here. And we never
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: heard anything back. But the following day when we drove back,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: we were on the motorbike and all of a sudden
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: you could see those guys putting the cables back together,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: and we just said, let's look to the left as
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: we drove past. So yeah, I mean the other thing is,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: what's lucky in my car? I got one of those
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: machine gun holes, you know, but the hole is still there.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: So Clarie will stand in the middle and if we
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: do go over low pairlines, we use a stick and
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: just lift them.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the things that we used with an
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: earth roamer that we had going through Central America was
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: we had a long section of PVC pipe, you know,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: just the white PVC pipe, and I cut a little
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: V notch in the end of it and we could,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: you know, because it's insulated. Because it's plastic, you could
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: lift the lift the power lines up.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: A little bit to use the bloom handle.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Broom handle would work.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: And I got my I got my aeriel, and of
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: course I got I got a framework above, so I
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: know I can see if the pairlines start.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Moving, you know.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: And the only problem I got is that if I
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: drive slow, it will fall between the cap and the
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: living part, So that's what I have to avoid.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And how do
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: you deal with One of the challenges with the bigger
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: truck as well, is it's surprising how much more money
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: you can spend on road tolls on shipping. Are there
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: ways that you found to get around that?
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean obviously we don't like the tour roads.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: If we don't have to we want, I mean, we'll
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: take the normal roads, and I mean if they get
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: really bad or the road stops. Sometimes all of a
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: sudden there's nothing. I mean, We've been driving to West
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Africa and all of a sudden there was no road
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: and we don't know. Basically, we were driving in a
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: different country. We went from Togo into Benin with even
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: knowing we're just driving in between the houses, so that
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: that is not a problem from ferries. From shipping point
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: of view, I mean, if you really plan your trip smart,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: you only have to ship once and then the second
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: time to get back home. But if we look at
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: let's say, for instance, in the US. Here, so if
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I would live here, I would drive my car all
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: the way from here to well, you can Alaska all
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the way down to Ushuaia. Obviously you need to fare
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Thereian gap is not happening, so you take the ferry
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: to Cartagaina. Then you can do the Hall of South America.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: You have already done the Hall of Central America. You've
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: done already Alasca in Canada. Then you do the Hall
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: of South America, including the Amazon, which I think is
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: an amazing oval end destination. And then you can ship
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: out of either Brazil or you ship out of Buenos
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Aires to Europe. Once you get to Europe, you can
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: do the whole of Europe. You can do the whole,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: and then you take the ferry from Spain to Africa
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes. You drive all the way down the west
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: coast or zigzag come back up the east coast. You
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: take the ferry out of Sudan to Saudi Arabia. You
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: coss the Hall of the Middle East. You can go
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: into Russia, China and Tibet. Work your way all the
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: way to Southeast Asia. Ship from Malaysia or Singapore into Indonesia.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: You do all the islands of Indonesia. And that's very sophisticated.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: There's ferry systems everywhere. Finish up in an island called Dilli,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: which is just off the coast of Australia. Take the
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: ferry to Diamond in northern Australia. You did, You do
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: the whole of Australia and then you ship back home.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, you don't have a lot of You don't really
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: have a lot of shipping here. And that's essentially what
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: you guys did in the food So that's what we
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: do amazing. So tell me if you were to give
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: some advice to your younger self. Let's say you were
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: to go back twenty years and give yourself some advice,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: what would you tell yourself about what you've learned after
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: twenty years on the road.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Ah, that's a hard question. But I mean, really, it
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: all went so smooth for us. We didn't have any issues.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: I mean all I can say to the younger generation
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: is sometimes the way I see it. And I'm getting
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: older you now, but I'm saying, look, guys, instead of
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: start traveling early, and I would praisically make sure I
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: had enough money in the kiddy before I start traveling.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: That's probably the advisor could give. I mean, we worked
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: all our lives and we semi retired when we were fifty,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: and basically we had enough money to do what we
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: do now. I wouldn't do anything any different, I mean
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: for us, And I mean some people say you're lucky.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's always the same people who seem to
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: have the same issues.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: And I mean I think some people are lucky a
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: lot and some people are unlucky a lot.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if they make themselves unlucky.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I think so, I think so.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't think I would do anything different.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, if anything, I would probably go to Australia
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: four years earlier. I mean, but that would be that
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: is a long way back. I mean, and it wasn't easy.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: We had to work hard. We had to work eighteen
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: hour days. When we had our own business, we worked
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: seven days a week. We had no holidays, we had
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: no nothing. We saved and saved and saved. The other
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: thing we don't do while we travel around the world
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: is we don't go out for dinner much. We don't
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: spend a lot, we don't we eat at the truck.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: You know, we don't eat. And of course, especially here
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: in the US. I mean, this is an expensive country
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: for US, but they are Australian dollar is worth nothing,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: so everything is nearly double. So I would say that's
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: where you know, that's the type of advice I would say,
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: But I mean we've always done that. We've really always
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: work on a budget, but we have frugal.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been frugal. So now that you've made it
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: to the United States, what's next? Were you guys heading
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: after this?
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Well, we really need to spend another two years in
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: the US. We've only done the West coast. So we
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: came in last year June. We traveled all the way
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: along the coast north to Washington, went inland to South Dakota,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: came back to Nebraska, northern Colorado, Western Colorado, worked out
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: way through Utah. I mean, you guys live in an
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: amazing country. I mean it's probably one of the best
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: in the world, you know, South Africa, probably national parks
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: and I mean, but here it's been for us, been
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: an amazing trip. We left our truck in Phoenix. What
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: we traveled between the six and nine months of the year,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: and then we go home between the six and three
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: months of the year. We left our truck in Phoenix
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: in November last year. We came back in March. We've
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: just done sixty six till till Saint Louis and then
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: worked our way back to southwestern Colorado. The fact we
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: missed that on the last trip, and of course then
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: we came back for the overland export and we're now
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: going for a couple of weeks into Mexico, a little
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: bit of laziness and finding our spots somewhere in the Bajas.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Not hard to do, yeah, eat lots of tacos exactly.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: And then we come back and we're going to do Texas.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: We're going to do that whole sub the southern and
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: the southwest of Texas, work our way to New Orleans, Memphis, Nashville,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: and then Key West towards Key West, Florida. Level truck
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: there somewhere and go home, come back, and then we're
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: going to do the east coast of the US and
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: then the next step will be Canada, and we're probably
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: planning two years. We never planned much ahead, you know,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: we say two years Canada, maybe three finish up in
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Alaska and by that time we've done one hundred and
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: forty four countries amaze, and then we done. We're probably
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: going to do another trip around Australia.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, how wonderful. You know, you guys are a
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: true inspiration to so many You guys have done amazing
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: journeys around the world. It's been a pleasure to communicate
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: with you through the years. You and I have communicated
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: back and forth, but we didn't really have a chance
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: to meet, and we got to meet just recently at
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: the Overland Expo. And this is such a rare opportunity
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: to sit down with someone with your experience and learn
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: about your life. So how do people follow your journey?
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: How do they find out more about you?
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: We have a Facebook site and we have a website,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: and the website is double Dutch worldsofari dot com or
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: dot com May You Eat Away? And our Facebook side
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: is just on the Robert van der Hooven. But none
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: of it is commercial, so basically, sometimes I'm a little
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: bit behind, but after things like meeting people, people always
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: send me question and I answered them. What I mean,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: for us, it's a hobby. There is no you know,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: we give all the advice we can. And having said
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: all that, I would also say to those people planning
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: to do a big trip, make sure that when you
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: talk to somebody on Facebook or on any other media
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: platform that are people in the know. Hey, but I
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: can give you advice over my cursing from let's say,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: from Ruwanda to the Congo. But that was ten years ago.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: I mean things change sometimes daily, So listen to those
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: who are traveling there right now.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you definitely want to. Don't want to get advice
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: from someone who's never been there because they're going to
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: tell you not to go because they're afraid what.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: They tell you they heard it from a friend.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's it's just not nothing you can take
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: action on, exactly. Yeah, you're much better getting the information
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: from the person that just came from the other direction
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: just that day, and then you can get you can
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: get some really good details on the ground. So Robert,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast with us.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: We appreciate it. It's fun to have you here in
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Prescott and we appreciate what you do.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: No, well, thank you very much, Scott. Then you also
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: you expire you you also do a real good job
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: and get people traveling around the world. I mean it's
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: a little bit like my mentor was Ron moun in Australia.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: He's the one who made me do what we do now. Yes,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: and I think you were one of those people. Think
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: you will actually make people start traveling around the world
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: and leave the US for later.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that's my thought. When I'm retired, I'll
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: drive around the US.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: That's what we're going to do in Europe and in Australia.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's perfect, wonderful. Thank you, Robert, thank you, and
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: we thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: you next time.