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Rachel Zoe: Nothing Replaces Hard Work | E22 · In Search Of Excellence

• 0:04
  Randall Kaplan: Welcome to a Search of Excellence which is about our quest for greatness and our desire to be the very best we can be to learn, educate and motivate ourselves to live up to our highest potential.
• 0:12
  Randall Kaplan: It's about planning for excellence and how we achieve excellence through incredibly hard work, dedication and perseverance. It's about believing in ourselves and the ability to overcome the many obstacles we all face on our way there. Achieving Excellence is our goal and it's never easy to do we all have different backgrounds, personalities, and surroundings. And we all have different routes on how we hope and want to get there. My guest today is Rachel zo. Rachel is a world renowned fashion designer, stylist, investor, author and philanthropist. As a stylist.
• 0:43
  Randall Kaplan: Her clients have included Jennifer Garner, Cameron Diaz, Jennifer Lawrence and Miley Cyrus, among many others. She is the co founder and editor at large of XO report, a digital media company an online style publication, which covers fashion and beauty trends, and reaches more than 14 million monthly users around the world in which she sold in 2018. from 2008 until 2013, Rachel was the star of the Bravo reality TV series The Rachel XO project.
• 1:08
  Randall Kaplan: She is also the founder and curator and chief of the luxury fashion beauty and lifestyle membership company curator, the founder of a ready to wear and accessories line the Rachel zo collection, the founder and chief curator of the subscription service box of style by Rachel Zhou, and the chairwoman of the venture capital firm Rachel's adventures, Rachel is also the author of two New York Times best selling books style a to xo and living and style inspiration and advice for everyday glamour.
• 1:38
  Randall Kaplan: Rachel, it's an incredible pleasure to have you on my show.
• 1:41
  Randall Kaplan: Welcome to In Search of Excellence. Thanks for having me. Thank you for having me.
• 1:44
  Randall Kaplan: It's weird Whenever I listen to the intro, I'm like, Oh God, like, like, does this make me feel all does it make me feel like I have more to do I just feel like I've done enough, you know, but it's never enough, right? Never enough. We're gonna get into all of that. I always start my podcast with our family because from the moment we're born, our family helps shape our personality, our values and our future. You're born in New York City and grew up in a wealthy family in Short Hills, New Jersey. Your dad Ron Rosensweig is a very successful entrepreneur who runs two different companies. And you've described your mom Leslie is the busiest nonworking person you've ever met. Your parents are art collectors and you grew up surrounded by paintings by Frank Stella Keith Haring, Barbara Kruger, and others what you've called all that stuff. You also grew up with vintage Chanel, vintage Lanvin and vintage Dior.
• 2:32
  Randall Kaplan: Can you tell us how growing up in a very wealthy family and what you have described as being born into your mother's closet, which is like a candy store to you influence your future?
• 2:45
  Rachel Zoe: Yeah, I mean, listen, I don't know. I feel like someone probably described my family is very wealthy. I would I would say this. I grew up very well. I my parents might my dad, very self made came from nothing. Honestly. Both my parents really came from nothing and
• 3:05
  Unknown: very hard workers, honestly, I think until my mother had children, she was working. You know, as a teacher, she went to Cal Berkeley, all of that my she was very politically active.
• 3:17
  Unknown: You know, my dad was an engineer is an engineer. Both my parents are still alive. Both retired, my dad still consults with different companies and stuff.
• 3:24
  Unknown: My dad started two companies.
• 3:28
  Unknown: The first one was a semiconductor company. He was the president, CEO of that sold that and then he started one call to Anna digit x, which created microchips and integrated circuits for high definition television and you know, million other things.
• 3:48
  Unknown: I learned very young, you know, it's funny, I think growing up, I grew up in a town called Short Hills, which is very much like Brentwood, and the Palisades and so I actually feel like by living here, I actually, I feel like I'm home weirdly.
• 4:05
  Unknown: But I think that growing up in a family that was very strong minded, and very kind, and very supportive.
• 4:16
  Unknown: was incredibly impactful, honestly. And I think watching my parents watching my dad specifically just work really hard and somehow be this incredible father. I now realized as a parent, what a challenging job that actually is.
• 4:34
  Unknown: But I think, to answer your question, my mother still to this day, I mean, we like to say she's sort of like this Jewish Elizabeth Taylor type person.
• 4:41
  Unknown: You know, a lot of her friends we call her Liz we call her you know, she's very glamorous. She has always been I have no memory of my mother ever being in a sweatsuit ever leaving the house to take us to school. You know, not dressed you know, not with lipstick on Not with you know. And I think growing up around that, you know, it's interesting because I have a sister that I'm so incredibly close with who, by the way went to University of Michigan.
• 5:10
  Unknown: And oh, by the way, my niece is graduating from Ross in a month, and my nephew graduated three years ago.
• 5:18
  Unknown: But she always says, I had you and your sister the exact same way I would throw you both in my closet, and one would organize it, and one would take everything. So obviously, I was the one that took everything.
• 5:29
  Unknown: And I think it was just about being surrounded by Glamour at such a young age and being influenced subconsciously, by my mother and kind of having this overwhelming desire to be around beautiful things, no matter what it was, it could be flowers, it could be a garden, it could be a home that I just wanted to look at, it could be walking down Madison Avenue, and looking at beautiful things in the windows, it was something that I was very attracted to whatever was beautiful, from a very young age, and I started styling when I was about eight years old, so amazing. Let's move on to education, which I think is one of the most important ingredients to our future success. He went to Melbourne High School and then went to GW George Washington University, where he studied psychology and sociology, how important is education and what we study in college to our future success.
• 6:25
  Unknown: And as what we learn outside the classroom as important or more important than what we learn inside the classroom. I have so many thoughts on this question.
• 6:35
  Unknown: I do and I'll be very honest with you. I believe that education for our children is probably the most important thing that ever happens, right?
• 6:43
  Unknown: I do in the sense of, you know, knowledge is power. It's one of the best things I've ever learned in my life, you know, but I do think that there are so many variables to that, where I think we've seen more than ever, how different our children are as learners, how different we were as learners, but like nobody cared when we were younger. Do you know what I mean? Like, it was sort of this is how you learn, this is what you learn. This is the marker in which you learn you get here by this age you get here by that age, right?
• 7:21
  Unknown: I think the foundation of education, the things that we actually use for the rest of our lives, that is the most important thing that ever happens, because without education, we can't function as humans, in my opinion, we just you have no knowledge of what's happening, right. But I think that there are degrees of that.
• 7:36
  Unknown: I think that there are a lot of myths, myths around education in certain ways. And I can, I'm here to say that there are countless things that I learned in my, you know, in college or wherever that I mean, I'm pretty sure I've never applied in my real life.
• 7:55
  Unknown: However, I do think what I do know is that when I got into my major, which was psychology and sociology, I got straight A's, and I was obsessed with it. One might argue as a stylist, and in every part of my career, at every turn, I use psychology, I have a thought that when you are going to be a doctor or a lawyer or something, you can really pick that path at a somewhat early age, right to go down. And you ultimately become a doctor or a lawyer, whatever it is that you're going to be finance, right or an econ you do corporate finance and the whole thing that's monumentally important and helpful. But I think to the extent of saying, If you don't go to college, you're not going to be successful. I think those days are actually over honestly, in my opinion, because I can't tell you how many successful people I know that a few that didn't graduate high school, a few that definitely didn't graduate college or even go to college.
• 8:59
  Unknown: And I think that the variable there is what are you doing with your life? And that are you more socially emotionally intelligent than you are? A student per se?
• 9:06
  Unknown: And we were having the reason I'm so I have so many thoughts on this. One of the reasons is we were having this conversation with my kids the other day, and my husband and I were saying to our children, because they would say, Oh, this one, you know, has already completed sixth grade math and he's only in fifth grade and like did it but you know, this child is he's she doesn't really have the social skills to you know what I mean?
• 9:33
  Unknown: He he struggles in other areas, right? And so nobody's perfect.
• 9:36
  Unknown: And I think your life experience your, your social emotional intelligence is equally as important in a lot of ways as you get older, because I think the ability to walk into a room and read it, know how to react to pretty much any situation.
• 9:58
  Unknown: Having that sort of street savvy that Social Savvy, can honestly take you sometimes even further than then being a straight A student and having never not shown up to school and have you know, and so I think it's really about with these kids, I think it's about this healthy balance the way we have to balance, you know, family or motherhood or parent parenthood and, and work, right, I think children have to really have a really healthy balance of social emotional skills and academic skills. You know, in the dream, they have both right. But I think it's okay. And I think we really have to nurture children that learn differently than other children, you know, and I think we're starting to as a society, we really are getting more accepting and sort of helping kids that have challenges in other areas. You were a hostess at a restaurant during summers in high school.
• 11:45
  Unknown: And while you're in college, there was a moment in time where you thought you'd be a restaurant hostess for the rest of your life, you thought it was the coolest job because you love meeting new people every day, you met your husband, roger that way. And we're going to talk about him a little later in the show. When you graduated college, you really had no idea what you wanted to do. And you went to your grandfather for some advice. On a related note to what we just talked about, can you tell us what he told you and whether it is necessary on our path to excellence? Well, it was actually my father, my father said to me, don't turn down anything that hasn't been offered, don't turn down an offer that hasn't been made, because I was saying no to all these opportunities before I actually ever walked in the door. And actually was giving a lecture to some younger Michigan students last week, interview and, and I said, that's one of the most important things I ever learned. Because I continue to use it in my life over and over.
• 12:40
  Unknown: Because I think sometimes we get fixated on ideas of what something could be. And you don't want to go in and actually have the meeting, or have the interview, or even open be open to the discussion. And then you find out, wait a minute, this actually is a dream job. This is a dream opportunity. I didn't know that I wanted to do this.
• 12:58
  Unknown: But I actually do want to do this. Wait, wait, wait, now that I understand it. And I think that what you're doing is you're really like closing doors that haven't been opened yet. And so for me, I kept saying no to things because of the idea I had in my head of what they might be. And so my father said, you know, we support anything you want to do, follow your passion.
• 13:23
  Unknown: Because if you can love what you do every day, that's the greatest gift that you could ever have in your life, because your job ultimately takes up a very big part of your life. And I went in for an interview that I knew nothing about. And I didn't even know what the job was. And I did it. And I went in, I called my dad that first day.
• 13:42
  Unknown: And I said, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. And I don't care if I do it for free.
• 13:47
  Unknown: My daughter, Bianca is a sophomore at Cornell. And she's looking for she's studying fashion, PR, and industrial labor relations, which is the school at Cornell that most people are in. And she just got a job offer this morning at a PR firm. And she has two more in the hopper one at a gene company. And I said to her this morning, you gotta be very delicate with that balance.
• 14:13
  Unknown: Because you don't want the employer who gave you the offer, which is a great one to, you know, think about maybe you don't want to take it. So it's it's, you know, we're going through that. Yeah, today. And it's, it's one of those, one of those tricky ones. And it's scary when you're that age. It's so scary because it's all the unknown. You don't want to say the wrong thing. You don't want to do the wrong thing. You don't want to seem entitled you don't want to seem ungrateful. It's very hard. But my kids don't always listen to my coaching and it's it comes with a lot more authority. If it comes from somebody else. I think she's listening to me on this one. So we'll see where we end up. So you you've been in love with fashion your whole life. And you said that when you were young, you're always too dressed or more dressed for things and you were five years ahead of the dress. The trend when you got older. You're constantly doing people's hair and makeup after graduate 1993 You moved to New York and through a friend of a friend sister you are able to land a job as a fashion assistant at the now defunct YM T magazine. When you took that job as you just said, you didn't know what a fashion assistant was, but you figured out I contain the word fashion. And it was where you were meant to be or 20 hours a day, seven days a week you're obsessed with the job as say you all over the world allowed you to and I was only paid for three I might say I might not I was paid for three days you made you made $18,000 a year when you started and even though you're promoted to senior fashion, you still had a very small salary at that point. It took stock of your situation in addition to the money issue, you're getting bored. You didn't like what you were doing anymore and decided You'd be better off leaving your job to freelance as a stylist, we're going to talk about your career as a stylist in a minute.
• 15:58
  Unknown: But before we do, what's your advice to the 10s of millions of people who are working in a job?
• 16:02
  Unknown: They don't like, but who stay anyway? You know, it's a great question. It's a tough question.
• 16:10
  Unknown: Because most people stay in a job for fear of a the unknown.
• 16:18
  Unknown: B, they don't realize they can love their job. They think this is just what it is. Most people define work, as, you know, the thing you don't want to go to every day, but you have to, because it's how you make money.
• 16:28
  Unknown: And I think to the extent that you don't have to do that, again, one of the things my father taught me that, you know, if you love your job, 95% of the time, then you're really winning at life, you know, because, and that 5% that you really don't like, it's why they call it work it otherwise it'd be called play you're going to play every day, you know. And so, I think the thing is, is that, look, I think the financial aspect of leaving a job is terrifying. So my advice would be to try and look for a job while you have a job, don't leave the job, and then look for a job because that is very dangerous game to play. Unless you can afford to do that, you know, most people cannot. And so I would say that, to the extent that you can really try and think as early on in your career as possible, what your deepest passion is, and how you can actually get paid to do that, or something that's, that has to do with that. Whether it's food, whether it's finance, whether it's law, it doesn't really matter. It's just how can you create your life in a way that you can actually get an income, you know, you can actually make money, doing a job doing something that you even like a lot, right? Because I think such a big part of and it's a much bigger conversation we can get into later. But I think mental health, I think so much of that is if you're waking up Monday to Friday, and sometimes more than that, and you're dreading what you're doing, that's going to have an impact on you. And I think for me, the greatest gift of my career has been that it's been a very, very small handful of times where I woke up saying, Oh, I don't want to do this, I can't believe I'm doing this, you know, even on those like 4am calls onto set and stuff when I was like, couldn't even see straight. But I think your ultimate goal in life should be to try and shape a career around something you love. And if you don't start that way, then as early as you can do that make the change. Because the older you get, and the more stuck in a job you get, the harder it is to then either start over or pivot.
• 18:45
  Unknown: You know, I really do. But I think, you know, in the world we're living in now I think it's a bit easier. And I think because you can be remote, there's a little bit more flexibility in that now. You're 25 years old when you made the decision to leave why a magazine and when you did, everybody wanted to know do you have any clients lined up and you didn't not a single one. Now your plan was to work as hard as you could to make it happen for yourself.
• 19:11
  Unknown: At that point, you had made some connections with publicists, talent agents, and managers. And when you told them that you're going freelance, they said your hire just started off by styling big musical stars like the Backstreet Boys and began Glacius Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson, and the Stone Temple Pilots where you once had to get orange monkey for boots for one of their photoshoots. God, you've really done this. I'm very impressed with you. Thank you. And you did all this from a small one bedroom West Village apartment. And while you're doing this, you also It wasn't even a one bedroom. It was a studio.
• 19:48
  Unknown: New York City Living and you also started freelancing for a number of fashion magazines. Can you tell us about the fear you had of trying something new with no safety net? Not a single client, no salary coming in? And how getting over our fears is critical on our path to success.
• 20:02
  Unknown: And as part of that is the plan you have to work as hard as you can to make it happen. Something that everybody can do.
• 20:13
  Unknown: God, well, okay. Fear.
• 20:17
  Unknown: I mean, I literally remember that day like it was yesterday, which is crazy, cuz you know, I'm not 25 not 35. But what I would say to that is, you know, it's funny, my nephew just turned 25. And I said, it's a big one right? Feels weird. And he was like, yeah, it does feel weird. And I said, 25 is that year where you go? Okay, I'm a grown up. You know, I think this few years after college, you're sort of like, okay, I'm figuring it out and often make a lot of money like did it it uh, and then I think at 25 You go Okay, I'm me now. Right. And every decision to me at that age, felt terrifying. It felt like if I don't make the right decision, I'm done. I'm over.
• 21:01
  Unknown: That's it. i If I don't do this job, well, I'm fired. No one's ever gonna hire me again. And the thing about being freelance in general, and a lot of people are in various businesses. You know, you make as much as you work, you know, an every job matters. And any job you pass on is someone else's job. And as a Freelance Stylist at the time, I was dealing with very high stakes, it was a ton of money.
• 21:31
  Unknown: It was a, you know, these pop stars were the most famous people in the world. I mean, the Backstreet Boys were like the Beatles. Honestly, it was crazy.
• 21:38
  Unknown: Enrique I mean, it was like, we would fly into places. And it was like 1000s and 1000s of screens. I mean, it was crazy.
• 21:47
  Unknown: And so the money they put forward for, for those types of jobs was was really big. And I think part of what motivated me was, I was working for myself and anyone who works only for themselves. You know, it's funny. If people would always say to me, Well, you work for yourself, you can take off whenever you want. You can take as many vacations as you want, Oh, you don't have to answer to anybody. But there's a lot of scary things that come with that decision. When when it stops with you. Every decision is the most important decision because it's final, right? And there's no one that you can say, hey, I'm not feeling well, today. I can't show up on set. I remember showing up on set with the flu.
• 22:31
  Unknown: And I had 104. And I had to show up as the bigger it was like this massive, massive like album coverage. I was huge, huge photographers, I mean, the whole thing, I'd 50 rock so close, you know, it was like the whole thing. And I had show up. And I got to set and I went to start the fitting, and it's really passed out. And I just remember thinking, okay, so this is freelance cool. And I think that, you know, I never took a vacation. I never took a day off for probably a decade, I swear I missed everything that mattered any, you know, baby shower, weddings, I mean, you name it, birthdays.
• 23:07
  Unknown: And I think that that fear of failure, fear of not being the best fear of not making my clients happy. Fear of not being a good partner fear of letting them down. And you know, I'm like that as a person. I've I've always been sort of a people pleaser type of person my whole life. And I think that when you're, you know, a CEO, or when you're working freelance in any job, there's that element of, okay, everything's riding on me.
• 23:38
  Unknown: Like, if they don't look good, if their image isn't what it's supposed to be, if I don't work perfectly with the photographer, whomever, you know, and it wasn't people putting the expectation on me ever. It was me putting it on myself. And so I think that, as someone, I think you are that person, or you're not that person. And I don't think there's a better or worse, you know, I don't think everyone is meant to be the leader of their life in that way, necessarily.
• 24:08
  Unknown: It's not for everybody. There are so many highs and the highs are amazing, but there's so many lows. And so I think for me, ultimately, there was a lot of fear behind it that drove me, there was a desire to be the best at it. There was an overwhelming desire to make my clients look and feel their absolute best and whatever that meant I was doing it, you know.
• 24:32
  Unknown: And that's really, honestly, you're 25 years old at the time, you're doing very well. You had a lot of clients, you love being on your own, you love what you're doing. You love shooting with some of the best photographers in the world, and you're finally making great money. But there's a downside to you're on a plane every week to LA, traveling with 10 trucks of clothes, it was exhausting. You were sick and tired, going back and forth. Your work at why I am had brought you to Los Angeles many, many times sometimes for a month at a time he had fallen in love with our great city here in LA. So in 2002, you and Roger decided to move here. Back then the fashion world wasn't really interested in the Hollywood and it's craziest, it seems especially after watching Sunday night's TV program the Oscars, Hollywood seemed intimidated by fashion. When you moved here your mission was to try somehow to merge the worlds of fashion and celebrity as the big mission. Actually, it's a huge mission. We're going to talk about your first Hollywood clients in a few minutes. But before we do you tell us how on earth a 25 year old with only a few years in the fashion business was going to do that and on our path to excellence.
• 25:43
  Unknown: What's your advice to people who may look at something massive like that and think it's impossible to have a huge packed on a huge number of people and decide they're not going to try because the odds of success are incredibly low. One of the biggest things that I always tell people in any interview, I really believe in not over planning your life, I really strongly believe in not trying too hard to architect your career. Everything I've ever done in my career has been on my gut. And sort of just really using my instincts to navigate a situation and when it felt right, and when it didn't.
• 26:28
  Unknown: I think that you can't make unrealistic goals, because you set yourself up for failure and whatever that failure isn't, might just when I say failure might not mean that you're failing at your job. It might just be an emotional failure, you might be like, this isn't where I wanted to go the same way you hear people go, I want my first job at 23, I want to be married at 28, I want my first child at 30. That's not in my, in my mind, that is not a healthy way to approach your life. Because as far as I've ever seen, I literally don't know anyone where their life went exactly according to plan.
• 27:01
  Unknown: And so I really think, you know, something my parents always say and still say to this day is, you know, best laid plans. It just It doesn't. It doesn't work. And it certainly has never worked for me. And so I I feel that when I wanted to come to LA, and I would constantly hear, you know, and I came from the fashion world in New York, which like the most cynical critical, you know, industry in the sense of saying like, Oh, well, it's not New York. Oh, well, LA. I mean, everyone just wears velvet sweat suits there. Which, by the way, Pam, Levy and gala were the founders of juicy, which literally created an entire movement, right? So laugh at them all you want, right? But it was brilliant. And so I think that the opportunity here was to sort of make a lay more of a fashion, more respected by the fashion world. And I'm not saying in any way that I'm responsible for that. But I just felt that the world should really blend more. And so when I started, you know, Tommy Hilfiger gave me my, my biggest break of my career, while I was still in New York, I think was right before I moved to LA. And he hired me to do a two week long ad campaign, and I was 25 years old. And I was like, why are you giving me this job, I haven't proved that I could do anything like this. He said, I know you can do it. And I was like, what, and it changed me as a person, because I was the first thing I ever led the most massive job of my entire existence. But what it did was, it terrified me enough to do a really good job, and then ultimately get hired on a million jobs after that, you know, and that's the gift of freelance is that you know, it's very word of mouth, right? And your, your, the way that you execute on your job is really what gets you the next job.
• 29:03
  Unknown: So I think to tell people, keep your goal realistic. I don't think you can, you can't set I'll be like, I'm going to change the way that we, you know, I don't know, go to the moon, although we're doing that now. But, but you know what I'm saying? I think it's sort of like set realistic goals and expectations for yourself. And when you meet them, just keep going. And my number one driver, honestly, was that it was never really enough. For me, I always feel like I always felt and still feel like I have so much more to do. You know, there was never a moment where I stopped and said, Oh, wow, great job, Rachel. Look what you did.
• 29:43
  Unknown: Never. It's only now that I actually look back at things and they're like, I can't believe you did that. Wait, you did that you worked on that. That video changed everything you know. And so there's markers in your life and your career that you look at and say, well, this motivated this and this was the reason that I started this right. But I never stopped in the moment and get comfortable. Because in my opinion, whenever you stop and get comfortable or complacent, that's when it all goes downhill.
• 30:11
  Unknown: Let's talk about LA when you moved here in 2002 you're shooting a lot of musicians but through your freelance work, you met Jennifer Garner's publicist who hired you at the last minute to style Jen for the 2003 Emmys Yep, at that time Jen was the up and coming star of a new TV show called an alias which by the way I was in Lake Tahoe I love those kinds of shows. And I made sure we saw the first one it also started feature a time Academy Award nominee Bradley Cooper.
• 30:39
  Unknown: Jen was your first high was fine and when you styled her in a cream color halterneck nurse Cisco Rodriguez dress it changed both of your careers yours and Jan's in some interesting Background here generally like simplicity at the time, and not in a million years did you think Jen would ever wear that dress?
• 30:58
  Unknown: Before she put it on, you told her that you didn't know if people were going to understand it. But when she did put it on the two of you froze, you just knew, Jen told you is the most beautiful thing she had ever had on her body, the fraction press the commercial media went crazy over it. Jen was a superstar.
• 31:16
  Unknown: That was a career making moment for you. You thought it was a gamble. But it was the most talked about dress of the year.
• 31:22
  Unknown: And from that point on, you started to work with a whole bunch of people getting some Oh, hi, Cameron Diaz and Kate Hudson and many others, took chances with them as well, there were unexpected, and sometimes even slightly controversial.
• 31:34
  Unknown: Fortunately, the response was mostly great. And when it wasn't, you had to remind yourself that the client and you were happy and confident with the look. And that's all that really mattered. You have said that if you don't take chances, then what's the fun and playing the game? On our path to excellence? How important is it to take risks, career influencing risks, even if it means doing something completely different than anyone has ever done before you? And as part of this, is it okay to fail? And is failure a necessary component to our future success? Okay, so a couple things. So one is that you are correct that the Narcissa was our first time working together, and it was a massive success. And Jen and I then fell in love at that point.
• 32:14
  Unknown: She then hired me to dress her for the Oscars. If you I think it was a year later, maybe. And it's the one shouldered kind of orangey, choral, vintage Valentino from 1971. That was the game changing dress that you're speaking of. And that was a scary moment, because it was my first time dressing someone for the Oscars.
• 32:38
  Unknown: And also, you know, Jen's very, she's very simple. And she looked at that dress and the hanger. She's like, Ah, I don't do one shoulder. I said, Okay, well, it's worth trying on, let's just try it on. She tried it on and she literally put it on. And we both just froze. And we knew that that was it. I did not know that the world would be so in love with it the way they were, I did not know that she would shut down that red carpet. And people would talk about that dress forever. I honestly didn't know that. And I think in those moments, especially when you're a newer stylist, they're terrifying. You know, those moments because they are really make or break things because people won't hire you.
• 33:19
  Unknown: If you're that person that's like, in those days, you know, there was worst dressed list, there was Best Dressed List, those are sort of thankfully starting to die out.
• 33:29
  Unknown: Because fashion is so subjective, that it really shouldn't be anybody's called to say that, in my opinion. And at the time, that people that were making those calls were people, in my opinion, very often that had no taste. So people have said to me over my, what seems like 100 year long career has said to me, I feel like you've never felt you've never experienced failure. And I laugh because I'm like, That is insane. I have experienced so much failure. You know, it may not be failure that people have seen or noticed or experienced with me. But there's a laundry list of failures that I could probably name or write down. And I would tell you, in all honesty, was it awful?
• 34:15
  Unknown: 100% did I feel like Oh, I'm never going to work again. 100% Did I get some of the biggest jobs of my career that changed my entire path for the better shortly after 100%.
• 34:31
  Unknown: I would say that any failure that I've had, has changed me as a person or as as you know, as the CEO or as the leader of my life.
• 34:44
  Unknown: You know, it has impacted decisions that I have made since that point. And it's made me they've all made me stronger.
• 34:55
  Unknown: They've all made me better.
• 34:55
  Unknown: They've all made me rethink or pivot in certain situations.
• 35:03
  Unknown: And I think the weird thing about failure is that, you know, I actually look at failure at this point in my life looking back as sort of life making decisions for you that you may not have made for yourself, you know, because in when you're really in the moment, and you're like a workaholic or whatever.
• 35:26
  Unknown: And you're so wrapped up in it.
• 35:26
  Unknown: You can't see it. Sometimes you can't see what's in front of you. And you're not in any way objective about anything, any decisions or certainly any future decisions because you're so wrapped up in what's happening in the moment. And I really think that sometimes failure really can be the thing that helps you improve Lately, in so many ways, and listen, you don't realize it in the moment. You don't you realize it, probably like several months after a year after. Truth be told, but I think it's important that people learn that failure is okay. It's okay. Your style is distinctive and unique. It's the main reason you originally became well known. Glenda Bailey, the former head of Harper's Bazaar said, The secret to your success is the clarity of your taste and uncynical passion for fashion.
• 36:23
  Unknown: You've been credited with the creation of the boho meets rock chick look, your look has also been referred to studio 54 MidCentral. Pay boho look, you've described your look a little differently. Very 60s to 70s, Glamour, mod needs Grecian, a lot of gold and a lot of bronze shimmer and very unstructured with bold accessories. One of your mantras is shining gold, shining gold always, when you're creating your own style. And we're doing this did you look around at the fashion world and study what different people were doing and intentionally try to be different? Or did this come naturally to you? Never, never studied it? Always just, I just did it. Honestly, that's why it's so interesting. Because, you know, over the past, I don't know, 10 years, I've had young people say, Oh, I'm studying you in class now, you know, and they'd be at these like, Ivy League schools or like, fashion schools. What are you talking about? You're studying me?
• 37:18
  Unknown: They're like, you're in my textbook. I'm like, What do you mean, I'm in your textbook, it was very surreal to me. Because, you know, I think kind of be learned. I mean, sure, of course, especially now, with all the sort of resources we have, you know, with fashion, and art, schools and marketing, and all of these things that you can actually learn in school, there are schools that specialize in Naam, and things like that, you can actually train to be a stylist at various different turns. And, you know, I think being the first in certain things, there's pros to that.
• 37:49
  Unknown: And there's cons to that, you know, that the con is you're just figuring it out as you go.
• 37:56
  Unknown: You know, and I just kind of, I don't know, I just figured it out as I went.
• 38:03
  Unknown: On our path of excellence. All of us have many challenges on our way there. And I want to talk about a few of yours and start with when you worked at Wired Magazine, you loved your job, but you had a boss who regularly stole the clothing, you're using photoshoots. And if that wasn't enough, he accused you of being the one who is stealing. When the two of you battle, there was a constant emotional struggle for you to lean on your husband, Roger, who at the time was working crazy hours as an investment banker, and he would surely do 24/7. But instead of quitting, who would encourage you to keep going with tell you that what goes around comes around that there will be karma, which is my dog's name. I believe in karma. You doubted that until one day, your boss and you were on a photoshoot in Miami and the fashion director who is your boss's superior, caught her stealing red handed, she was fired on the spot and you're given her job. When that happened, the fashion director sat you down for a serious talk and told you that in order to succeed in the fashion industry, you had to grow a thicker skin and stop being so nice. You were discouraged by the talk. And it made you question your career choice for a while. But you eventually came to the conclusion that you didn't agree with everything she said. She said you didn't you thought you needed to toughen up and survive the hardships that your boss and your boss made you realize that.
• 39:14
  Unknown: But you believe people can be strong at nice. At the same time? Can you be too nice in business? And if you are too nice? Will it impact your ability to succeed? It's interesting, I guess I believe everything you just said. And I did say that. And I do stand by it. The one thing I would say that my young self, my younger self, I was very naive about people. So I think that the quote unquote too nice, to me, would be the equivalent or synonymous with being naive. And when I say being naive, it's as I said, I've I've kind of grown up with this sort of people pleasing, wanting to make others happy kind of perfectionism and things like that. And I think that when you take that into adulthood, into your professional life, you can really trip up on that, you know, because what you learn in business, on the one hand, I've made lifelong friends, through my business and for about 20 years, there was literally no divide between my personal life and my professional life.
• 40:28
  Unknown: Literally, my my, my team, my assistants, my, my, you know, co workers and my company once we built a company, every friend I ever had, they were all in fashion. They were all through fashion. They were all in the business. We're all you know.
• 40:42
  Unknown: And then, you know, being very candid, you know? I was not supported by one Men throughout my career, I really wasn't. And, you know, I know that now it's really cool to be kind and supportive, and lift each other up. But it wasn't then, and certainly not in the fashion industry. And I have often described my career, as, you know, swimming against the current swimming upstream.
• 41:11
  Unknown: You know, I always have that visual of like, whatever fish that is that goes that way. It goes up instead of with, and, you know, with every success, I met, you know, sort of a woman who wanted to ruin it for me or take it down, or, you know, and so, I do heavily believe in karma. I would say that being too nice, I really, like I said, is equivalent to being naive about people. And I think that I was very foolish to think the best of people in situations where they clearly did not have good intentions. And I think that very often that kind of toughening up and getting that thicker skin comes with experience, because you don't want it to change who you are, as a person. You don't want to become this like cynical hater, right? But you do have to have 10 eyes open about who people are, you have to try and really get a sense for who people are in your life and try and draw sometimes a healthy line between your co workers and friends.
• 42:15
  Unknown: Many of us have had bad bosses in our careers, in many cases, terrible bosses. In today's job market where employees have tons of choices, and job hopping is more common than ever. How important is it to our future success to learn to deal with adversity at work? It's definitely very important. I mean, it's very important to deal with adversity. I mean, it's it's, you know, listen, I think, in how we're raising our kids. Now, you know, it's funny, there's a lot of parents out here talking about, oh, our kids never lose, or they never, you know, they get they get accolades, even when they don't do well or like things like that. And I think that it's a, it's an ongoing conversation about kind of really learning throughout your childhood, and then your adolescence and then when you become an adult, how to deal with adversity. I do think a lot of these things come from experience. And I think that I think that learning how to deal with adversity is is really important, because you are going to have it, you're going to have it at every turn no matter what, no matter what you do. There will be different degrees of adversity as well. And I think that if you learn to sort of if you can start to really vet, I guess, what things are worth your reactivity to a situation.
• 43:38
  Unknown: I think that's better. And again, I think that comes with age, you know, that comes with experience. I think so much of how to deal with these situations comes with time.
• 43:51
  Unknown: Really. I think confidence grows over time because it's experience you know, anything new still gives you butterflies I always say like, if I'm not getting nervous about something, it means it's time to do something else.
• 44:06
  Unknown: 2005 you started working with Nicole Richie, the daughter of Lionel Richie a very famous four time Grammy Award winning musician who has like a 25 time Grammy Award. Um, you're probably right, but in my mind, I feel like he's won like 50 of them. He's won for but he's the nominee, I believe for over 20 That sounds right. He sold over 100 million albums in his career. When Nicole hired you.
• 44:27
  Unknown: She was mainly known for CO starring with Paris Hilton and the reality TV show The Simple Life, which ran for four seasons was essentially about the lives of two young, wealthy socialites who came from famous families.
• 44:41
  Unknown: There are many who thought Nicole had no talent whatsoever, but she was young and attractive and rich, and she had a rising profile with the tabloids, a paparazzi love taking pictures of her. You made sure she never looked drab and was dressed to impress like wearing something locally with a killer accessory when she went from one hotspot to another in LA. At this point in your career, you were a star yourself and you had an enormous impact on the careers of many of your clients, including the call who you helped turn her into a star at that point, you had so much influence that your style can turn an ordinary encounter with an up and coming actress into a front page fashion scoop.
• 45:18
  Unknown: And for that promising young actress these out of bed pictures are out at a hotspot pictures would turn into several$100,000 endorsement deals from the designers who in turn saw huge increases in sales from whatever these celebs were wearing. At that point in time.
• 45:31
  Unknown: Did you realize the enormous power and influence you had? And if so, did you think about the responsibilities that came with it? I definitely I mean I definitely did. I definitely. I took a lot of my clients on as if I was their older sister or their mother very often. You know Hmm, you know, something my husband always says, like, I didn't look at styling as like a job that I was waking up for and doing, I looked at it as my whole being and who I was as a person. And I approached every client with so much emotion, and such a personal investment, and really taking care of them, really just looking after them, really trying to transform their images in a way that, you know, what was more reflective of who they were, you know, and, you know, it didn't do that for everybody, for all my clients, but I think there were certain clients that really allowed me to do what I do, and just, you know, love to play dress up and really do the whole thing. And that meant, whether they were going to the movies, going to dinner, going to get a coffee, you know, whatever they were doing in their lives, it wasn't just about a red carpet moment, you know, and then I had other clients that when they weren't on the red carpet, they want to know, part of it, they wanted to, like wear overalls and a T shirt and converse, you know. So I think it was for me very much about taking people to the next level, because I never looked at dressing people as like a superficial thing. I looked at it as trying to be transformative for them.
• 47:11
  Unknown: Honestly, like, not just outside looking in, but really just helping to really shape who they are inside. Because I just always looked at styling as this incredible form of expression, you know, and who you are and who you wanted to put out in the world. And I think, as public figures, it was something that, you know, they weren't really people weren't hearing what they were saying. They were just looking at pictures of them. So I think it's sort of like okay, this is my vibe, this is who I am, you know, and ultimately, you know, how you look on the outside is very much reflective of who you are on the inside and, and sort of your mood and where you are in your life and who you want to put out there in the world every day. The power and fame also comes with a downside and I want to come back to Nicole for a minute she was very thin many Calder, anorexic and depressed accused you of being widely responsible for her widely reported weight loss and setting a trend for size zero bodies. The Los Angeles Times wrote that you were single handedly bringing back anorexia, the clinic called become close friends. And in 2006, the press reported that you participated in an intervention aimed at helping her to overcome her eating disorder, she fired you.
• 48:20
  Unknown: And then she wrote a very nasty post on her MySpace page accusing you of having your own eating disorder, you took the high road, you respond to that you work with women of all shapes and sizes, and you wish to call only health and happiness and you did not in fact, have a eating disorder.
• 48:36
  Unknown: That could not have been fun.
• 48:40
  Unknown: And I'm sure it was very upsetting and embarrassing. At some point, the more successful we become, the more likely it is that people will criticize some aspect of what we're doing. And the higher our profiles, the greater scrutiny and likelihood of increased criticism on Sunday night. Before Will Smith won the Oscar for Best Actor, Denzel Washington said that we'll at your highest moment, be careful, that's when the devil comes for you. On our path to excellence, what's your advice to others?
• 49:09
  Unknown: And how to deal with criticism, some of which may be deserved?
• 49:12
  Unknown: And some of which may not be deserved? And does dealing with criticism in the right way help you become a more effective leader and a better role model to others? I mean, it's a loaded thing, I think, listen, in that time period, you know, it was the high highest. It was like at the height of the tabloid movement. You know, I think now those are pretty much dead. I mean, I haven't looked at a tabloid. And I'm honestly I can't even remember when, you know, I was able to get through those moments, in a ton of pain. But I was able to get through those moments because of the family that I have. And the clients that I had, that, you know, we're anywhere from a size zero to 10, some pregnant some, you know, like just going through all these different moments in their lives. And then being like, Rachel, you can't let things that are the complete opposite of what's true.
• 50:16
  Unknown: take you down there like we know you, everyone in your life knows you. You've never done a drug in your life. You absolutely do not have an eating disorder. You do nothing but feed us when we come you don't let us leave if we don't eat, you know, like your muffins out of this that like the other thing and they're like, it's like for anybody who knows you they know this is the most ridiculous thing that anyone could ever say. So all you ever have to care about is the people that actually know you. Because these people have never met you. They don't know you and they're passing judgment and creating something that actually has no truth to it.
• 50:49
  Unknown: That actually has There's no factual truth to it.
• 50:52
  Unknown: And then like, so you just have to move on and laugh at it. But because I'm not an actor, and because I'm not, you know, it wasn't a celebrity in the traditional sense, I was a celebrity by mistake, you know, like, sort of just the press just sort of pulled me into that, you know, like with, because they were curious about who was behind the looks of so many people. And so they started digging into it. And then I think that, for me getting through those moments with a very strong family, and very strong clients, and very strong friends, and people that, you know, and mentors, like, you know, Marc Jacobs, and people that have been through different things in the industry, I think listening to their sort of insight and words of wisdom, was really just monumentally helpful and impactful for me. And I think when you can't really see outside of a bad situation, if you don't have those people that can help you see, that you respect and follow and admire.
• 51:59
  Unknown: It's very hard to get out of it.
• 51:59
  Unknown: You know, I take things very personally, and very deeply, and it was very painful, very painful. And I couldn't believe sort of like, you know, it was funny, like, it was sort of like when something is such a polar opposite of reality. You, you can't You're so like, shocked about how and how could someone ever say something like that?
• 52:24
  Unknown: How is that even possible that someone could say that, you know, and you start to really see this whole other side of, you know, the industry, and it makes you really look at things differently. And I think at that point, I never like looked at a tabloid again, because I was so sort of like, wow, this is all just a battle lies. Like, it's all just really, you know, and so yeah, I think it does help.
• 52:50
  Unknown: I think it's really hard to be strong in those moments. But I think if you don't have strong people around you that are positive. You know, it's very hard to get out of that, honestly. And I think it is important to take a step back and realize what was helpful for me was to think about who was writing these things, and how miserable they probably are in their own lives that they have to try and take down innocent people, you know, and that's like fun for them. So I think that to me, was very helpful. I want to switch gears and talk about what makes people successful. And I want to start by talking about the perception of what we do versus the reality of what we do. You never wanted to be famous, but you are famous. And everybody thinks your job is all glamorous. You hang out with celebs and amazing designers, you go to amazing parties, you make lots of money.
• 53:38
  Unknown: But it's not all glamorous. Most people don't really think about your day to day in the actual work, or know how being a stylist is really a behind the scenes job. You're there to flop clients trains and hold their handbags and make sure they have chapstick, lint brushes, and snacks on hand. It's a service business and you're there to provide a service. I'm 53, I've had some success. And if I had to put a number on it, I would say that at least 75% of my day is comprised of doing very menial, very boring tasks, things that are not exciting, but which are essential to my businesses. When I got out of grad school almost 30 years ago, things were very different than they are now college graduates today are much more entitled than we were in school. And many don't want to do the groundwork.
• 54:24
  Unknown: But they want to be promoted by like, six months, and they want like a senior title happens every time that we have a new employee. But But despite my success and your success, we still do it. What what's your advice to younger generation who are growing up in a world of overnight social media sensations with millions of followers in the real world?
• 54:50
  Unknown: How do they achieve success? And the real world? I mean, God, it's funny, I've done a lot of interviews with young people like this. And it's a hard thing because you have to do the work. People can see through it, if you don't like that whole, like fake it till you make it thing.
• 55:11
  Unknown: I think you have to, you're doing yourself a disservice by not working hard from the beginning. Because you miss a lot. Right? It's the little things. It's the nuances. For me. It was like bootcamp, it was like it was like I was doing the job of 10 people. And it was fine one because I loved it, too, because I kind of wanted to control all the aspects of it, which I still do. And three because I learned so much, you know, and it's like those intensive investment banking programs. You're never going to meet someone in those programs.
• 55:49
  Unknown: It's like yes, I'm living for it. I'm having the best It's time, like Roger hated at my husband and like, but he would tell you, he has used every single bit of it in every pretty much every day of his career. And so I think it's in those moments, it may not be the most fun thing you've ever done in the moment, but do the work, it will help you so much along the way.
• 56:17
  Unknown: And I really, I really just think being humble, goes a long way. The minute I interview, someone that I feel is entitled and arrogant, it's like, we don't even get halfway through the interview. It's just over.
• 56:29
  Unknown: It's just over. Because those are like red flags. I think when you're interviewing people, and the first thing they ask you is like, do we have flex days? How many vacation days? How many days? Can I work from home? You know, it's like, those are the red flags. Like, for me, I want to hire people that are passionate, driven, and just want to do the work. You know? I mean, how do you feel about that?
• 56:59
  Unknown: Things have really changed. I talk about this with a lot of my successful friends. And it's an I'm 53. I know your class. I'm 4040. I just turned just 40 Last September, happy birthday. And it's, we get questions like this on a regular basis. People don't want to come to work right now.
• 57:19
  Unknown: And I don't know how you can build a company without the DNA of people working together in the same room towards the same goal. You just can't do it. And yet people want to do it. On the tech side. It took us six months to find a replacement of someone we had to fire for being racist, six months ago, and everyone, you they all wanted to work from home. And I said, How are you going to be a critical member of our team, we do have people who come in, they want more vacation days, they want all kinds of things. It's a buyers market, if you're someone looking for a job right now, and I don't care what business you're in, if you're in the trucking, business, service business, any business, you can't hire people right now. So I share, I agree similar thoughts to you, I want to talk about the importance of preparation on our path to excellence. One of the main ingredients that got me to where I am today is that I'm always the most prepared person in the room. How important has preparation bench your successor going a step further? How important is extreme preparation? I'm talking about going way and beyond? What would be considered regularly great preparation, I'm talking about the kind of preparation you spent 30 or 40 hours on for a single event or meeting. It's such a good question, honestly.
• 58:41
  Unknown: And it's the thing that I actually stand by as being probably the most important part of my career. And my team would probably say the biggest differentiator between myself and some others. And that when I would start working with a client, they would come in and say, I've never experienced anything like this. And I was like, What I don't understand what you mean, because obviously I didn't work with other stylists, right. So I didn't know what they were comparing it to. And they would just say, like, if I was coming in for a look, I'd have six options. And I refuse to ever have less than 40 to get to one. You know, and so, you know, when I was doing Backstreet Boys and stuff, I mean, there were five of them, I would literally have 50 racks of clothing, because, you know, they each needed five looks, there was 10 shots like today.
• 59:35
  Unknown: But ultimately, you know, I always use the example I would get hired for these ad jobs, right, that would pay me the most money. And it was the least creative. And it would be like, okay, she needs to wear a white t shirt and jeans. Okay, so you might bring in, I don't know, three T shirts, for pairs of jeans, maybe see which ones fit.
• 59:52
  Unknown: I would 100% have 40 pairs of jeans of every wash of every length of every possible type of denim you could have, I would have every variation on a white t shirt from Ivory to stark white to crewnecks V necks, tank tops, ruffles on the sleeves, you know, like the M you name it, I would have it. Because nine times out of 10 they would change the direction. And when they change the direction I had what they needed, because there's nothing that was worse for me than being in the middle of nowhere on a job. And they're like actually we would we actually change we actually want to do like a navy blue or an off the shoulder white instead of just a basic t shirt. And then you're in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:00:40
  Unknown: Where on earth am I getting this where where's this actually happening, you know? And those moments for me were like, it was like that panic like I felt like this is on me. Why don't I have this? I'm not proud paired, you know, and that was a feeling that I never wanted to be familiar with. And it created 10 times more work for everybody. My assistants would bet Shimon pardon my French, but they'd be like, Why do you need this Rachel to white tank top they need, that's it, it's gonna be waist up, you know what guys go work for someone else. This is how I roll, you know, this is how I roll, you know. And then always the same thing with a gown like, they thought they wanted one thing, they would tell me Oh, I'm feeling like a black long dress with a train.
• 1:01:21
  Unknown: And they'd end up in a short pink cocktail cocktail dress, you know. So, for me, it was like, making people step outside their comfort zone and having those options there to do so.
• 1:01:33
  Unknown: But also having what they asked for. And I think preparation, to me, is actually the most important part of what I do in every aspect, everything I do, I will say this, I don't prepare for things like this. And the reason is, is because I like to wing it because I'm much better at speaking from the heart or just instinctually just responding and being conversational than I am like writing a script or taking notes or things like that. So whenever I give a speech or anything like that, I'm just like, No, or whenever I'm on a show or anything like that. I don't like to meet the person before I'd like it to be very organic. But I think as it pertains to any other aspect 100% over prepare over, your assistant asked me to send over a list of questions. I didn't like hope you get fired me. I didn't look at them. Well, I didn't give them I didn't give them because I didn't like because I want I want people to act to react naturally to my questions. And I don't want things to be scripted, same even on my TV show, they would always say, Oh, do you want to have an intro to so and so you're gonna see them in this episode? I'd be like, No, I want to walk in and it be actually real in real time. Just to note to our listeners and viewers, I believe and it sounds like you do too.
• 1:02:52
  Unknown: Preparation also includes proactive thinking, for things that could be different. You have to adapt to the situation when you're there and plan also, not only for more options, but for things to go wrong. Yes, always, always. Okay, so my team says Don't be so negative, I'm like, This is not negative. This is realistic, this is being prepared. This is how I've gotten through every part of my life, is I always play out worst case scenario, and how to prepare for that. Always, always, always in anything I do.
• 1:03:30
  Unknown: We talked about preparation being important to your success, we've talked about passion, what are the three to five additional ingredients to success?
• 1:03:42
  Unknown: In your view?
• 1:03:44
  Unknown: You know, I think I think one I mentioned earlier, which is never get complacent with where you are.
• 1:03:50
  Unknown: Always know that you can do better and be better. Not ever being driven by your ego.
• 1:03:54
  Unknown: Because you will trip up on that. Try to surround yourself with people that you know, truly support you. You know and really try to also recognize this is one of my best learnings and again, advice from my dad, as an entrepreneur.
• 1:04:17
  Unknown: You have to really know your strengths, and really recognize your challenges and be okay with it. No one is amazing at everything. They're just not, we aren't as human beings. We're just not designed that way. And I think the minute you recognize are can really find some kind of like comfort in knowing what you're best at and what you're not. And then really hire people around you that can really fill those sort of like challenges, then you end up really being the perfect balance because you complement each other. You know, I mean my husband and I are co CEOs and we we do such different things. We're getting there right now and I want to talk about Roger, the two of you met in the summer of 1991 You were 90 and he was 22 you're both working at a restaurant in Washington DC. You're a college it GW who's getting his MBA.
• 1:05:19
  Unknown: They're your hostess he was a waiter. The first time he saw you you were wearing a tight black mini dress high heeled pumps you had stick straight hair your list for covered in Mac Chili lipstick which became one of your trademarks. When he saw you he said that you were the most beautiful woman you had ever seen any also said that he quickly learned that you have more clothes than any woman he had ever met and that he often wondered if you would do an outfit change mid day. You're married seven years later, you're wearing a custom Isaac Mizrahi dress which is a white replica Have a red version of the supermodel Amber Valetta. The letter had worn on a magazine cover. And as another interesting fact, you and Roger are huge, Grateful Dead fans, you've been a more to 30 shows he's been to more than 90, and the two of you walk down the aisle to their song truckin.
• 1:06:07
  Unknown: When you met the two of you fantasize that you would open a restaurant and stat, as we talked about, Roger worked as an investment banker for eight years. And when he left, he started a company called recognition media, which own produce, media shows and programs and events. Today, he runs your companies with you, you've given him a ton of credit for your success, you said that you are nothing. Without him. I don't know many couples who work together, my wife, you know, my wife, and I certainly cannot do that. I love her more than anything. She's way more laid back than I am. But we kill each other. You've created something special together. But at the same time, it's not perfect. You said the hardest thing about working with him as he talks over everybody, sometimes he talks too much. And you have to figure out in a polite way to tell him to stop talking and let some other people speak. It's awesome. But like everything is not perfect. What's your secret to working together? And in a world where 50% of all couples get divorced? Do you recommend getting into business with your spouse or significant other?
• 1:07:10
  Unknown: The answer is I don't know that I'd ever recommend it. I don't know that I'd ever recommended.
• 1:07:13
  Unknown: Although I do know a handful of spouses that work together couples that work together, and it really does work. I think that the success of it partly is because we do very different things. He really lets me do my thing, I really let him do his thing. There are certain things that we overlap with. And, you know, I would say he's certainly a creative person, I have really over the last 10 years become much more, you know, financially savvy, and you know, in terms of investing, and advising, and all of that type of stuff. But I think at the end of the day, we really respect what we each do.
• 1:07:56
  Unknown: And pre pandemic very separately, you know, and then I think in pandemic, obviously more together at home, but you know, it's weird, I think what happened was, you know, as a stylist, my business kept growing in all different directions. And, you know, I'm such a control person, I think, for me, it was so hard at one point, to really just manage it all. It really was, and I had been burned by various people that I trusted. And I think at that point, you know, I had never we're so close, we really like grew up together. Honestly, I've been with him more than more than half of my life. And so I think that I never made a really major decision without him being involved, you know, business decision, not like styling decisions on everyday things, but big decisions we always made as a couple. And so ultimately what happened was, he would he started to help me sort of just as my husband just was like helping me with this sort of like business side of it, right?
• 1:08:57
  Unknown: Because I literally couldn't sit there was no way that I could possibly manage it. Because we had so many expenses and business, it was just getting too much. And so he started to formally work with me, I think around when we launched the XO report. And you know, him coming off, you know, running the Webby Awards, and all of these amazing things and corporate finance, investment banking, the whole thing. It just started to like take shape, where we just started working together. And again, like he had my best interests at heart, like we're you know, and I think that for me, it ultimately came down to, you know, it's funny, I don't think we ever like formally sat down and said, Okay, we're partners, like, I think it just happened organically. And I don't advise it because most people won't survive it. You know, I think that our dynamic has always been very like Lucy and Ricky.
• 1:09:59
  Unknown: And I can absolutely, like, bite his head off about something and he'll have a tantrum about something or he'll say, I don't know this and I'll say, you know, no, you're talking about and blah, blah, blah. And then three minutes later, it'll be like, Okay, who's who's getting the kids? What are we having for dinner? Like what? So I think it's sort of like, and I will say this, the gift of it, really, as people who had children later in life, we really set up our life that we could take them wherever we traveled together, we didn't leave each other. We made, you know, family decisions, family business trips, you know, and I think that, for me, was a really beautiful thing, because we weren't living these entirely separate lives. And I think sometimes that can be the demise of a relationship where you just live completely separate lives.
• 1:10:47
  Unknown: I have friends that leave their husbands for like three weeks to go travel to Europe and this and that and their kids and Uh, you know, that's it's not an easy thing to do. It's easy when you're in your 20s. You know, but it's not an easy thing to do, I think later when you have young kids at home. So I think those things, actually for that it's really a gift. So I think there's mostly pros, I think, a few cons, because we're kind of never not thinking about work.
• 1:11:14
  Unknown: But to be honest, like, even if he wasn't my co CEO, I would never not stop thinking about work. So, you know, I think that there's so many impressive things in your career way too many to discuss here. But can you tell us about the greatest moment of your career and how it's related to people going through chemotherapy or going through a very hard time in their lives, or that just had a baby? And are trying to put their lives back together? Well, I think for me, there was this real weak moment, right after 911, you know, going way back, where, you know, I had watched it happen from my balcony and the West Village. Live in real time. And, you know, as I said, I feel things very deeply, I think everyone reacted to that very differently.
• 1:12:00
  Unknown: And I think for me, it really impacted me in such a such a, such an intense way on a very deep level.
• 1:12:08
  Unknown: And I think, you know, I had just come off a very late night from a Marc Jacobs fashion show that was on the pier the night before. And I think you go from living this like high of your life, right? Like, I love my life, I'm so blessed at it. And then to watching that happen.
• 1:12:23
  Unknown: And all the way that it really hit me the most sort of after I got over the actual I don't even know if I ever got over. I don't know if you ever get over, but I think I literally I remember so clearly saying I quit, I quit my job. I quit smiling. I'm not doing this. This means nothing. This is so superficial. This is the dumbest thing. What am I doing dressing people, these people on the ground are saving lives, their social workers, teachers, it really upset me on a very deep level that I was making so much money for what I did at such a young age. And yet teachers and social workers and people working for, you know, nonprofits and things were just making nothing. And they were changing lives. They were helping people. And I was like, What is this crazy? And what am I doing? And I started to turn down some of the biggest job offers in my career for months, months, months. Nope, nope, no, dun, dun, dun, what am I doing next, I'm going to do what I set out to do. I'm going to work and sociology and you know, be a social worker, psychiatrist, whatever. And then this friend of mine at the time, who was actually like, a neuro, a neurologist, and she was working in one of the hospitals. And she came up to me and she was like, Okay, I need you to help me. I can't, I can't function is it like, I can't feel good about myself. I can't. I've just seen so much darkness, I need you to help me get out and give me some like, I need to put myself back out in the world and whatever.
• 1:13:51
  Unknown: And I said, I'm not doing this anymore. I quit.
• 1:13:55
  Unknown: And she said, You can't quit. I said, Well, I don't do anything meaningful, you know? And she said, What are you talking about? That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I was like, Suze, I don't do anything meaningful. I dress people. And she was like, That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You actually change lives, you change how people feel about themselves, you change. She's like, you know, you've helped people literally, like get out of darkness you you're you're transforming how they look and feel about themselves, people that are depression, people, whatever.
• 1:14:28
  Unknown: And I went to this work event in Las Vegas, shortly after that, and this woman came over to me, she said, I just want to thank you. And I was like, four, she's like, you've changed my life. She's like, I've been going through cancer. I've been watching your TV show, I've been reading your book. She's like, and you now make me want to actually like, do my life, like get out of bed, you make me want to like live for something you make me want to like this not.
• 1:14:57
  Unknown: And I would hear the stories over and over and over about like, you know, women waiting to greet their husbands from getting home from the military and women who were through Hurricane Katrina, you know, and couldn't get their life back together. And so I started to really feel like I had this much deeper purpose in what I was doing. And it was this real inflection point for me. And that's when I wanted to start helping as many women as possible.
• 1:15:24
  Unknown: Really try and live their absolute best lives, and, you know, on a much deeper level and trying to empower them in a much deeper and bigger way. And that's, you know, when I launched this report, that's when I started to write my books. That's when I started to do a million other things that I was doing because I was trying to figure out how I could touch as many women as possible at all points of their lives. I want to talk about philanthropy, which I know is extremely important to you. You're an ambassador for Save the Children 100 year old organization that operates in over 100 Countries and champions the rights of the world's 2.3 billion children. You're also on the board of the awesome organization, baby to baby which provides children living in poverty with basic necessities that every child deserves, and which is distributed more than 175 million items in the last 10 years, on our path to excellence, how important is giving back and helping those who are less fortunate?
• 1:16:16
  Unknown: You know, I look at philanthropy as probably my favorite part of my jobs. And something that it's something you have to do, it's not something that is like a luxury to do. It's if you can, it is one of the most important things to ever do. And empathy is the number one thing that as a parent, I have set out to teach my children from the youngest age to try and make them understand what it means.
• 1:16:48
  Unknown: And, you know, cancer, and children have been my chosen causes, because there's a million that I want to do and be a part of, and things that I am a part of, in other ways, but baby to baby, Save the Children, these are organizations that have such tremendous impact.
• 1:17:12
  Unknown: There's no limit to what they can do if they have the funds to do it. And I think that there's nothing, there's no power worth having, in my opinion, if you don't use that power, for good.
• 1:17:24
  Unknown: And I think to have a voice and not use it in a way that you can help others, especially children. It's not excusable.
• 1:17:36
  Unknown: It's not excusable. And I think philanthropy to the extent that you can do it, and touch it on even the smallest level, if you can. There's just so much need in the world, especially now that I just think if you don't do it, I I'd like to understand why you don't.
• 1:17:55
  Unknown: I challenge you.
• 1:17:57
  Unknown: Before we finish today, I want to go ahead and ask some more open ended simple questions. I call this part of my podcast fill in the blank to excellence.
• 1:18:03
  Unknown: Are you ready to play? Oh, god, yes. When I started my career, I wish I had known. I wish I had known to believe in myself. I think the four most powerful words in the English language are I believe in you.
• 1:18:20
  Unknown: Yeah, it's a great motivator. It is. And I genuinely believe, you know, listen, it took it took me to hear Tommy Hilfiger to say that, for me to actually feel confident enough to do the job.
• 1:18:33
  Unknown: I was like, oh, okay, you think I can do it? Okay, great. Great.
• 1:18:38
  Unknown: My number one professional goal is keep getting better, you know, to just keep doing my absolute best, and to get better. My number one personal goal is happiness. You know, for my children, like just that my, you know, honestly, my number one personal goal is that I raise incredible children with a great moral code because they have it now and you just hope it stays.
• 1:19:05
  Unknown: My biggest regret is trusting people I shouldn't have trusted.
• 1:19:10
  Unknown: The one person in the world that I admire the most is my dad. The best advice I've ever learned is lead with kindness. My favorite designer in the world is Chanel.
• 1:19:21
  Unknown: The three celebrities that I've worked with and like the most are, oh, that's tough. That's like picking a favorite child.
• 1:19:34
  Unknown: Oh, Brad Pitt, Kate Hudson, Jennifer Garner.
• 1:19:37
  Unknown: The one person in the world that I haven't styled but want to is Angelina Jolie. My favorite stylist is Karen Whitefield.
• 1:19:47
  Unknown: She's the editor. She was the editor of French Vogue. Now she has a car but she's a legend.
• 1:19:56
  Unknown: She's a real she's just an absolute legend. If you could meet one person in the world, who would it be? Michelle Obama, or Oprah? The one question that you wish I had asked you but didn't is you're definitely the most prepared person I've ever been interviewed by. I will say that you clearly did your research very clearly. And I think and it's an it's very helpful, by the way, because it saves a lot of time. And it's a lot of I don't know, I think being prepared is like I said, I think it's one of the most important things. It's such a good question, because it's weirdly one I haven't been asked, you know, and it's something that I think was really the biggest differentiator in my career, honestly.
• 1:20:42
  Unknown: Do you have any last advice for those listening and watching today and is there anything you're working on that you'd like to promote to our listeners and viewers today?
• 1:20:53
  Unknown: I mean, you know, I would say character are are incredible, you know, luxury shopping membership program, you know, is really just something you absolutely don't want to miss your wife will want it for sure.
• 1:21:05
  Unknown: And, you know, you just have to go check it out, look at the Instagram at character, or online, of course character.com. But it's something you definitely want to be a member of. I mean, it's 999 to get a shop membership and find everything that I've curated. And, you know, you could buy things for yourself and everyone in your life. So I think that's incredible. And plus, of course, you get the seasonal curation of things I've chosen for every season. So I think that's amazing. And then I have a lot of stuff coming out. But I can send you all that. I have a lot of stuff I'm working on. I'm working on a new TV show. I have a podcast works for us. So Rachel, you've been an incredible role model to millions of people and abroad, incredible happiness 10s of millions of people who love you.
• 1:21:56
  Unknown: I'm very grateful for your time today. Thank you very much for sharing your incredible story and inspirational story with us.
• 1:22:03
  Unknown: Thanks for having me.