Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Graham Platner Won His Primary… But Can He Beat Susan Collins? + Can An Independent Break The GOP Stranglehold In Tennessee?

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Full Episode - Graham Platner Won His Primary… But Can He Beat Susan Collins? + Can An Independent Break The GOP Stranglehold In Tennessee? · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: vary and rates may vary. Hello there, Happy Wednesday, and
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast. Let me
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: give you a quick rundown. I'm gonna have a little
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  Speaker 1: bit of post primary analysis for you. The news and
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  Speaker 1: Maine good news for Graham Plattner. The question is is
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  Speaker 1: that good news for the Democratic Party's chances for winning
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  Speaker 1: control of the Senate. Is that good news for Susan Collins.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to dig into all of that and have
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  Speaker 1: you look at it both by the numbers, and then
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  Speaker 1: of course there's always the subjective matter of things. But
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  Speaker 1: Maine wasn't the only place on the ballot. We had
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  Speaker 1: South Carolina and Nevada as well. Have a little bit
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  Speaker 1: on that, but I also want to share. I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to share a little bit of what I think we've
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  Speaker 1: learned so far. We're just about it the halfway point
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  Speaker 1: of primary season, and you know, by the end of
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  Speaker 1: the month will probably be more than halfway done after
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  Speaker 1: New York votes and stuff. So we are. We are
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  Speaker 1: starting to see some things that I think are painting
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  Speaker 1: the picture for what this election cycle is going to
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  Speaker 1: be about. So I want to get to that. My
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  Speaker 1: interview today is with candidate who's running as an independent
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  Speaker 1: for governor of Tennessee. Lorn Pingston is and is a
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  Speaker 1: I think a very viable candidate for governor. It's an
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  Speaker 1: open seat. As we know, Marshall Blackburn's probably the leading
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  Speaker 1: Republican candidate we'll see. You know, there's I think the
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  Speaker 1: independent candidate here hopes that Democrats would take a knee
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: giving her a clean shot, because there's some thought that
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  Speaker 1: if you're going to look politics of horrors vacuums, no
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  Speaker 1: matter how red the state is or how blue the
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  Speaker 1: state is, there's an opposition that can be organized if
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  Speaker 1: somebody finds that folk rum point right, And I think
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  Speaker 1: every state has it. It's just about whether there's a
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  Speaker 1: candidate that goes where to find it, and there's a
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  Speaker 1: candidate that can represent it and so and I that's
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  Speaker 1: always the open question. So getting to know how another
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  Speaker 1: independent candidate is running in the South, I think it
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  Speaker 1: is certainly worthwhile. And we've had a little Tennessee theme
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  Speaker 1: over the last month after my Lamar Alexander conversation. It's
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  Speaker 1: also Wednesday, which means I have a new top five list,
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  Speaker 1: and it's very timely. It is an updated, my updated
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  Speaker 1: top five list of Senate seats most likely to flip.
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  Speaker 1: I have a new number, two, new number three, you
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  Speaker 1: name it. Four of the five are Republican held seats.
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  Speaker 1: One is a Democratic health seat and it is not Georgia.
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  Speaker 1: And I will leave that there. And finally, some questions
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  Speaker 1: and a little commentary about the situation of the quarterback
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: from Texas Tech who was credibly accused of gambling, sort
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: of actually owned up to it, and is somehow going
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: to be eligible to play college football next season, eligible
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  Speaker 1: to be in the college football playoff? Is that is
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the Big twelve, Texas Tech in particular, in the Big
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: twelve making a huge mistake. I think you know where
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  Speaker 1: I sit on that story. But let me begin with
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  Speaker 1: a quick reaction from the primaries last night. Look, the
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  Speaker 1: big I think the big storyline of the night was
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  Speaker 1: Graham Platner. There was no mystery about whether he was
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  Speaker 1: going to win his primary. We knew it was going
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  Speaker 1: to win his primary. The question is with a zombie
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  Speaker 1: candidate with a well known last night, with a well
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  Speaker 1: known name, Janet Mills, the sitting governor still on the ballot,
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  Speaker 1: a fact that she herself reminded reporters about a week
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  Speaker 1: before the primary. Was the case that if there were,
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  Speaker 1: if there were growing numbers of Democrats concerned about Graham
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  Speaker 1: Plattner's candidacy for the United States Senate, they still had
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  Speaker 1: an opportunity to express concern by showing up voting and
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  Speaker 1: not voting for Platner. Well, Platner ended up with seventy
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  Speaker 1: three percent of the vote. There were two other candidates
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  Speaker 1: on the ballot, one that was an active candidate and
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  Speaker 1: the other being Janet Mills, and he is comfortably cleared
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  Speaker 1: seventy percent. And you know, I think it's I gave
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  Speaker 1: you this sort of bar that I was going through,
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  Speaker 1: and I admittedly said, I said, you know, look, fifteen
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  Speaker 1: to twenty five percent is a yellow flag, and Janet
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  Speaker 1: Mills is sitting at nineteen twenty. So yes, it's a
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  Speaker 1: yellow flag, but it is not a five alarm fire.
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  Speaker 1: Had he been held to, you know, under sixty five,
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  Speaker 1: had Mills gotten somewhere north of thirty or pretty close
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  Speaker 1: to thirty, or the combined vote between Mills and the
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  Speaker 1: third candidate, then I think you would have heard increased
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  Speaker 1: chatter about replacing him, questions about whether that none of
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  Speaker 1: that happens. Now. I think this is a strong sort
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  Speaker 1: of affirmation of his candidacy by the main Democrats who
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  Speaker 1: chose to show up and vote. And that matters a
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  Speaker 1: lot here because at this point, if if there's you know,
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  Speaker 1: if you don't have essentially your own parties consent to
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  Speaker 1: do the switch, you risk if you do push it,
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  Speaker 1: you know, splitting the party into and making whatever chances
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  Speaker 1: you'd thought you did have in unseeing Susan Collins that
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  Speaker 1: much harder. I think the real question is with with
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  Speaker 1: platiners is a couple of things. One is there more stuff?
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  Speaker 1: And of what kind of nature is it? Is it
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  Speaker 1: more rhetoric or is it physical? Is it something more
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  Speaker 1: physical in nature? Right? That I think is you know,
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  Speaker 1: I think one hits a lot harder than the other.
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  Speaker 1: You know, before Trump came along, right pre Access Hollywood tape,
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  Speaker 1: you know, we we certainly knew that there was a
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  Speaker 1: higher tolerance for this stuff growing through the years, but
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  Speaker 1: there was always a tipping point. When we didn't receive
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  Speaker 1: that tipping point right after Access Hollywood. Then the question
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  Speaker 1: is what, you know, how numb are folks to this?
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  Speaker 1: Are they numb to the character questions? Or is character
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  Speaker 1: a luxury item for more and more primary voters? And
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  Speaker 1: I do think with some base primary voters, character is
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  Speaker 1: a luxury item that ultimately the north star of doing
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  Speaker 1: true disruptive change, whether it's on the right or on
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  Speaker 1: the left, and having frankly fearless advocates to do it,
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  Speaker 1: regardless of their backgrounds, especially if they show the guts
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  Speaker 1: they're willing to take on sacred cows that conventional politicians
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  Speaker 1: weren't willing to do, say things that conventional politicians weren't
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  Speaker 1: willing to say. Well, then they're more likely to overlook
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  Speaker 1: character issues because they're looking you know, what they're looking
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  Speaker 1: for is a is a pugilistic stand in right. And
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  Speaker 1: that's the thing with angry voting electorates is that when
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  Speaker 1: you're you know, this is a case where if this
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  Speaker 1: were a peace and prosperity election, Grant Platner would be
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  Speaker 1: in much deeper trouble, right, because then you would need
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  Speaker 1: and you just have a different look. It's hard to explain,
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  Speaker 1: you know, unless you guys have some good memory of it.
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  Speaker 1: But it's just a different mindset. You know, if you're
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  Speaker 1: if if it's a peace and prosperity election and you're
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  Speaker 1: really just targeting a race because the numbers look good
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  Speaker 1: for you, then you then you need to have the
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  Speaker 1: strongest possible generic Democrat you can have. This is an
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  Speaker 1: electorate that may be very angry, This is electorate that
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  Speaker 1: is fed up. This is an electorate. And then you
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  Speaker 1: also have a base of a Democratic party that is
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  Speaker 1: sort of tired of losing, right, tired of capitulating to
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  Speaker 1: the to the center. I'm tired of capitulating to the establishment,
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  Speaker 1: and I think there's some evidence of that with this
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  Speaker 1: pretty strong primary performance by Platner, that there's that there's
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  Speaker 1: something to that in this sort of response of actual
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  Speaker 1: primary voters voting the way they did. So I think
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  Speaker 1: the bigger question is is what would a Platiner Senate
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  Speaker 1: victory do to change the branding of the Democratic Party
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  Speaker 1: and how much of it and how impactful would his
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  Speaker 1: actual election be. If you can overcome all of this,
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  Speaker 1: it change. You know. It's like how Trump just completely
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  Speaker 1: changed the image and perspective of what kind of candidates
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  Speaker 1: could run for office, what kind of person could serve
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  Speaker 1: in certain places and it and it got Republicans you
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  Speaker 1: could say they went off the deep end with it,
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  Speaker 1: but it made them reimagine what a conventional what a
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  Speaker 1: successful candidate might look like. And if the Democrats essentially
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  Speaker 1: believe the same thing, where does that go? Is it?
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  Speaker 1: You know? Is is it expand the aperture of the
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  Speaker 1: type of candidates and there'll be more more folks running
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  Speaker 1: for office with or is Charlie Cook likes to call
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  Speaker 1: them exotic backgrounds? Or is this just a unique situation
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  Speaker 1: where Donald Trump, anger at anger at Democrats inability to
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  Speaker 1: be back Trump, however you want to look at it,
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  Speaker 1: has just got the elector at certainly the Democratic Party's
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  Speaker 1: base voters in a different mindset. And I think that
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  Speaker 1: that's that's the unknown here. But I that's the other question. Look,
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  Speaker 1: Graham Platner can win. There's a few things that I
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  Speaker 1: brought up before and I'll bring up later when I
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  Speaker 1: do my top five list, but Maine has gotten bluer
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  Speaker 1: from twenty twenty the last time Susan Collins was on
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  Speaker 1: the ballot, and there's a specific reason for it. Maine,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of Maine saw an increase in essentially COVID migration,
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  Speaker 1: folks leaving blue cities in New England and moving to
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: or blue cities of the bluer East Coast and moving
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  Speaker 1: north and moving to Maine. You saw Boston people do that,
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  Speaker 1: and et cetera. It is and you sort of saw
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  Speaker 1: some evidence in it in the Kamala Harris performance in
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  Speaker 1: Maine in twenty twenty four. When you compare her numbers
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  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four to Biden's numbers in twenty twenty
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  Speaker 1: they look very similar, and you think, well, what are
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: you pointing to, Well, you got to remember Biden. Biden
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  Speaker 1: literally got seven million more votes total. So the fact
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  Speaker 1: that the raw vote here in Maine for Kamala Harris
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  Speaker 1: hit the same raw vote target that Biden did, actually,
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  Speaker 1: you know, this is one of the few places where
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  Speaker 1: where you know, she hit essentially a twenty twenty target.
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  Speaker 1: She kind of underperformed twenty twenty in almost across the country,
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  Speaker 1: across the board, particularly in non competitive states. She kind
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  Speaker 1: of just missed the marks that she needed to be
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  Speaker 1: at in some of the swing states and then came
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: up short in some of the non competitive states. But
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  Speaker 1: the fact that her number, the fact that she actually
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  Speaker 1: ended up with more raw vote in Maine than Biden did,
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  Speaker 1: I think is tells you that the floor, the Democratic
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  Speaker 1: floor is now higher in Maine than it was in
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. That's important for Platner's ability how many how
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  Speaker 1: many people can he afford to lose? And is is
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  Speaker 1: Susan Collins is the anger at her an enough that
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  Speaker 1: if you can't bring yourself to vote for Graham Platner,
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  Speaker 1: you're not going to vote for Collins. You'll skip the race.
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  Speaker 1: And that that is the nightmare for Susan Collins is
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  Speaker 1: that those that are uncomfortable with Platner aren't persuadable to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Collins that instead, it's a I can't you know, I'm
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: going to skip the race, right. It's why one of
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: our guests on our election night live stream, Jacob Rubashkin,
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  Speaker 1: brought up what he thought was the better parallel to
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: compare grand Platner too, and that was the sort of
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the j Jones Jason mieris ag race in Virginia. J
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Jones had these awful text messages that got released about
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: sort of him dreaming or wishing of political opponents, the
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: death of political opponents, and the pain that that might
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: cause their family if it was due to gun violence.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Very awkward thing, very uncomp to bull sort of universally condemned,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and there was there was no doubt there was going
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to be some fall off. Joan's still won still one
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  Speaker 1: rather comfortably, but there was a significant number of folks
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: who skipped the race in Virginia, and that actually hurt
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the Republican you know, they needed those Essentially, those were
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Democrats that said, man, that guy's unelectable. I'm not voting
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: for him. But I'm not rewarding the Republicans, so I'm
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: just going to skip the race. That's that's the problem
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that I think makes the math still very still quite
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: difficult for Susan Collins. But here's something July thirteenth the
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: date to watch. That's the last day that you can
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: get off the ballot essentially without an issue, and the
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: party can replace you, you know, whether it's Republican or Democrat,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: can replace your name on the ballot. A consultant friend
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: of mine reminds me that so far all of the
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: OPO dumped on Platner has come from the Democratic side.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: That we haven't seen the Republican apofile yet. And as
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: this person said to me, and you're not going to
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: see it until July fourteenth at the earliest. Again, because
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: July thirteenth is the last day that you could see
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: a withdrawal. But again I go back to you know, look,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: it's certainly a risk, right, it takes a race that
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I think when you really look at the metrics of Maine,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: it is a generic Democrat can't is I'm not saying
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: a generic Democrat it can't lose to Susan Collins. But
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: it's weally awfully difficult. Generic Den wins this by six
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: seven eight points, but Platner can afford to lose three
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: or four and still probably pull this off. And so
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: but you know that is the You know that. But
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: what is the nature of the allegations? If more comes,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: what does it look like? Again? Is it rhetoric? I
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: don't think the rhetoric hits. I just don't think this
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: hits anymore, not just with him, but in general. I
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: just think that there's a there's an exhaustion, well, my goodness,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: there's always a social media post, or there's always something right,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: accusations of a physical nature. And again I say it
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: very broadly like that, not trying to imply anything. That's
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to me the only type of stuff that has a
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: chance to stick at this point. But the big news
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: for Platner is just that it's just that he survived.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: There look the other stories of the night where you
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: have runoffs. Lindsey Graham avoided a run off after spending
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: ten million dollars. I guess you could say better safe
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: than sorry. But the fact is there, you know, in
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the in the northern you know, in the in the
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: in the northwest part of the state. He's less popular
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: than he is an other UH in other parts of
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the state, but he avoided a runoff. Obviously, being in
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: a runoff would have been highly risky and would have
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: been problematic. The governor's race is going to be in
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: a runoff on the Republican side, and the Big News
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: sort of gets that to the larger story I want
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: to get to, which is the two candidates that made
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the runoff, the lieutenant governor who got Trump's endorsement, Late
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Evitt Pamela evatt Uh and the Attorney General, Alan Wilson,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: who's the son of Congressman Joe Wilson of Uli Fame
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: back in the day, and that will you know that
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: run off, By the way, in two weeks, it's a
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: quick turnaround. In South Carolina, they don't mess around. It's
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: literally the opposite of the state of Texas, which had
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: two months between the primary and the runoff. But what's
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: notable about the dominatorial runoff is who didn't even make
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: make the runoff, and that was not one but two
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: sitting members of Congress who were runn Nana Mays and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Ralph Norman. And I think Nancy Mays may had a
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: finishing fifth at the went all of said none. This
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  Speaker 1: hangover and no excess calories like this. I'm a big fan.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: So bring on the good vibes and treat yourself to
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: sold today. Right now, Soul is offering my audience thirty
• 20:33
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  Speaker 1: and use the word podcast that's getsold dot com promo
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: code podcast for thirty percent off. And yes, I too,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: am a customer. It gets to sort of a larger
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: sort of what my column is about this week and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: about I'm trying to explain why members of Congress so
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: much this cycle. And look, I think you know so far.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: We're about the halfway point of primary season, as I
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: said at the start of this podcast, and you know,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: you can start to take inventory. There are some patterns
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: that have developed. Now, some of these patterns may disappear
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: come August. Right, we have a whole slew of primaries
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: in August that could go in a different direction and
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: sort of dilute whatever pearls of conventional wisdom we're starting
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: to develop at the moment, so these some of these
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: trends could just disappear by Labor Day, but some of
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: them may end up being the story of this election.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And so and so far, the biggest story of this
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: campaign is how everybody is running on the same simple
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: message change. When I say everybody's running on chained Republicans
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: are running a change, trying to run on change. Democrats,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: incumbent challengers, former office holders, first time candidates. The language
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: has been remarkably i'milarn in these campaigns. I'm going to fight,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I'm going to disrupt, I'm going to shake things up.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I'm here to take on Washington. I'm taking on the establishment.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I'm going to take on Trump. I'm going to take
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: on the woke left. I'm you know, going I'm doing this,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I'm doing that, and it is universal. In fact, we
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: don't have anybody I could argue that is campaigning on
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the status quo, and even forget saying it. You also
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: don't even see any candidates running on restoration. I mean, arguably,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump's entire two political campaigns have been backward looking.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Make America great again, right, look backwards. The Joe Biden
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: game campaign, and frankly, arguably Clinton and Harris both in
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the same we're both restoration campaigns. We can't go backwards, right,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: We're going to restore what we had, But they were
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: restorative campaigns, right. And even look, we've had every single
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: election cycle since twenty fourteen has been a change election
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: cycle where something has flipped. Every single one since twenty fourteen.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Twenty fourteen was a change election. Shoot, twenty fifteen, those
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: off off years were change elections. So was sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: new name it, all of them change elections. But even
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: in those change environments, somebody was making a restoration argument, right,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Like I said, to make America greade or restore the
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: soul of America, you know, the whole point being, we've
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: lost something and we've got to get it back, and
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: I am your vehicle to do that. But not right now.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Everybody wants new right, We've seen it in Republican primaries
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: and we've seen it in democratic primaries. Build something new,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: break something that isn't working. We reform the system, change
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the system, challenge the establishment, and everything is a bit
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: more future focused. We're not looking backwards, and that's a
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: bigger development. We're not only in a change election environment.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: We are really future focused. And look, with Trump during
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the Trump era, it's been very hard to look forward
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: because he's in some ways been constantly trying to get
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: us to look backwards. We've had all of our political
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: battles have in some ways been old political battles that
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: have been like re fought again, Like what are we doing?
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I thought, can we stop looking backwards? It's time to
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: go forward? And this campaign, I think in that sense,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: everybody is trying to look at the same direction. So
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: this seems real and both parties seem to have arrived
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: at the same conclusion about this electorate that voters are frustrated,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: they're impatient, they want change. They can actually see what
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: we're just disagreeing on right now is what does that
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: change look like? What kind of change? Now? This is
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the other I think My other big takeaway, which is
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: dovetails with the point I was making about South Carolina
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: governor earlier. I think the worst first name to have
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: in politics right now is congressman or wish woman. You know,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: we saw last week we saw two members of Congress
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: lose governor's races. Randy Finstra and Iowa Dusty Johnson in
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: South Dakota. And when that happened both, right, you know,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: it was almost like we call those races pretty quickly
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: they both lost outsider populists who were the top folk getters. Obviously,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I know South Dakota's going to be a runoff, but
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Johnson couldn't even crack the top two in that, so
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I wanted to keep digging. And it's pretty clear it's
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: been a tough year to be a sitting member of
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Congress looking for a promotion to governor, Senate, or say
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: even state attorney general. Right, ye had Jasmine Crockett lost
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to taller Rico chip Roy lost in a runoff. Even Illinois,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the Democratic Senate primary, Rajah Chrystal Morphy loses to Juliana Stratton.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: In some ways, Illinois might be actually one of the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: cleanest examples that this isn't simply a Republican phenomenon. Christian
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Morphy had everything that you were supposed to want a candidate, money, name, recognition,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: years of preparation, an important seat in Congress. Right he
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: was the co chair with Mike Gallagher of that important
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: committee on China, and he still lost, Right, Now, yes,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: there are some sitting members of Congress who have won
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: promotions in primaries to cycle Ashley Hintson and Iowa, Andy
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Barne Kentucky. There's still a handful of House runoffs that
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: could propel Mike Collins to the Republican Senate nomination in
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Georgia Barrymore in Alabama, but both could end up losing
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: to ones that are running as outsiders. It's not a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: wipeout for sitting members of Congress. But these losses are
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: interesting because these weren't fringe candidates, these members of Congress.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: They didn't run desperation campaigns. These were candidates who looked
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: on paper like exactly the kind of politicians who usually
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: do get promoted. So I did look to see if
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: there was any causation or correlation between primary cycles where
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: members of Congress struggle to win Senate and GOV primaries,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: and whether that translates to telling you something about the
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: midterm cycle overall. So I looked at House members who
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: left Congress to run for Senate, Gov, or other statewide
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: office to see that relationship, and there isn't a lot.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Two of the weakest promotion years did this century, where
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: two thousand and six In twenty ten years that the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: House did flip six it flipped to the Democrats, Tenant
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: flipped to the Republicans. But twenty eighteen was another year
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that the House flipped right to Democrats. But that cycle,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Democrats did really well. Not just Democrats sitting members of Congress,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: a majority of them actually got promoted to House or Senate,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: to Senate or gounatorial nominees. So it wasn't, you know,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: it wasn't There wasn't some magic predictive indicator here that
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I was uncovering. But it wasn't enough evidence to keep
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: watching because there does seem to be something happening with
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the value of congressional experience. Frankly, just let's use some
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: common sense here, right, Washington experience is not going to
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: carry the same value to voters right now as it
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: once did. It certainly could be a positive value of
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Washington experience, screw that, right, So if you're running as
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: somebody whose experiences Washington, you got to offer more than that.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: You know, voters are going to be very skeptical of
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: experience acquired in DC, so you're going to have to,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: you know, indicate well, despite my time in Washington, I
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: did this or things like that, and I think that's uh,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I think that I wonder if that limits the somebody.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I'm just very curious what this is going to do
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: to ambition in general with members of Congress, or whether
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: more of them lee. We'll see who knows right, new
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: leadership perceptions could change and things like that. There is
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: one place where Democrats and Republicans are behaving, I think
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: slightly differently in their primaries. Republican voters still seem to
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: be more interested in rewarding confrontation, not always with the
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: most conservative candidate or the most pro Trump candidate, but
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: these primaries do seem to favor the candidates that come
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: across as most willing to fight challenge somebody. You know,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: this is why some outsiders were able to beat some insiders, right,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: whether it's Ken Paxton beating John Cornyn, Zach Lane beating
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Randy Feinstra, and Republican primary voters they're gonna they like
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: the idea of a disruptor. Now, we didn't get the
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: full revenge of that in South Carolina or Lindsey Graham
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: would have been put into a primary, but you could
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: still see in the the primary results that you need
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: to be a disruptor to win over a good chunk
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: of these Republican primary voters. The Democratic voter voting pattern
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: here is a little harder to pin down. Illinois can
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: complicate some of my easy theories here Texas and Iowa
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: as well. I do think what is fair to conclude
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: with the Democratic primary voters is that they seem to
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: be somewhat more willing to have a conversation about who
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: can emerge from the primary and hold together a winning coalition.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: So you can sometimes call that an electability conversation. Sometimes
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: it's a consensus conversation. Right, tall Rico over Crockett felt
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: like an electability conversation was successfully had in just enough
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: places to help Tall Rico. Certainly, that was the campaign
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: that benefited Josh Turrek over Zach Walls in Iowa and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: even California. Right, and the governor's race there. You know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: after all these high profile candidates stumbled, Javier Bisra increasingly
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: became the candidate that most Democratic voters decided they could
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: live with. Right, he was nobody's first choice, but he
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: was everybody and probably not many people's second choice, but
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: he was everybody's third choice. It was nobody's last choice,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and the fact that they were willing to sort of
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: like enough of this chaos will go with good enough.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: That is not the way we've been watching Republican primary
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: campaigns play it out. So look, we've still got a
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: lot of primaries left. August alone could change a lot
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: of these impressions that have been left so far. But
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: the more you look at this first half of the season,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the more convinced I am that we are headed toward
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: another change election. We're going to see either the House,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Senate or both flip. That seems more inevitable than ever now.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: It could be narrow, but it's going to happen. Everything
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: is pointing in the direction of change. The messaging has
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: changed left and right right. You have Democratic voters are
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: showing up in big numbers. That's another issue that's once again.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Democratic turnout is on the rise in these primaries, even
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: when they're not super competitive. Republican turnout has been very stagnant,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: if not down in some places. So primary turnout does
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: is indicative. You know, that is a tea leaf worth
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: reading going into the November cycle, and that was a
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: big deal. So you're seeing you're seeing that so Ultimately,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I definitely think we're headed to this form of a
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: change election. The argument isn't over whether change is needed.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: The argument is over who gets to define it. And
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: then there's the question that follows every change election that
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: we've had over the last twelve years, what happens after
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the election? Because voters have been sending roughly the same
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: message for more than a decade, now, shake things up,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: fix what's broken, do something different. And the Washington leadership,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: whether Democratic leadership or Republican leadership, has shown a remarkable
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: ability to absorb these new members elected to be change agents,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: absorb these new movements elected to shake things up, and
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: eventually recreate many of the same frickin power structures voters
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: thought they were voting against. So in some ways, that's
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: been the story of this last decade. Control of Congress
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: has changed, Movements came and went, insurgents arrived, and yet
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: many of the same leadership structures survived. Maybe that's the
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: real question that's going to hang over November twenty twenty six.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: It's not actually about November, it's about January twenty twenty seven.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Do the people elected on promises of disruption actually disrupt
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: anything or does Washington do what Washington usually does and
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: slowly absorbs these change agents to show them the way
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: We'll see at some point voters are going to get
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: frustrated if the same thing happens again and again. They
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: vote for change, and the leadership structures essentially stifle it.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Both party primaries electorates are sending change messages. This cycle
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: is can it be stifled the way it's been? If
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: this happens yet again, we shall see, all right with that,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Let's sneak in a break when we come back. My
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: conversation with the independent candidate for governor of Tennessee, Laurn Pingston.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I got my top five list, got more questions and
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: a little warning shot to my friends in the Texas
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Tech and Big twelve communities, and with that I'll see
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: how they have the side well. This episode of the
• 34:54
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• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Some of you may wonder if I have a bit
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: of a Tennessee theme going on after the big Lamar
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Alexander interview last week, I was running as an independent
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: for Governor Lauren Pinkston, and she joins me. Now, somebody
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I've met a couple of times at some of these
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: various events that we both have been showing up at,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: whether it's places where independents are looking for a way
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: to break through the process, or I think the last
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: time I saw you is what I call the place
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: for recovering Republicans, where conservatives who are can't stomach Trump
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: basically trying to take their movement back. And this is
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: life as an independent candidate, isn't it.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And you know, each whether you're disaffected
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: on the right or the left, there's a little bit
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: of a difference in the conversation for sure. But I
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: think because of the way that we've seen things shifting
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: over the last ten years, and you know this as
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: well as anybody. But to have a place in this
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: moment where there's this recalibration going on in politics nationwide
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: and for forty five percent of voters to identify as
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: independent compared to twenty seven percent on the right and
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the left each, you know, that's a moment to grasp
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: for sure. And this was the year to stick my
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: neck out there and at least give that large largest
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: block of voters representation.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Well, and look, I'm somebody who worships at the cliche
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: of politics supporters of VACUU meaning you know, I don't
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: buy this idea ever of one party rule, you know,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: and that and that there's always a full crum. You
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: just have to go find it. And I want to
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: quote Lamar Alexander to you. I just had him on
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: this podcast talking about his memoir somebody I've known a
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: long time, and you know he talks about, you know,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: why he ran for governor way back when in the
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: you know, he had a run twice, he lost the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: first time, one the second time, and at the time
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: he goes, you know that he thought the state needed
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: competition and there wasn't two party competition. Which was true
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: back then. It was basically and here we are again,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and he lamented he is very concerned at the lack
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: of two party competition in the state. Thinks it's not
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: a healthy sign. Whether that means you bring the competition
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: or somewhere else, but there's it was intriguing to me
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: to hear him say that, and I'm wondering what voters
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: say to you as you travel the state of Tennessee.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, and to quote him again at the
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: end of your interview with him, I enjoyed that conversation
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: so much, and he said, maybe it is time, you know,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: maybe an independent will start to break through. And so
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I think that there is this moment where people are
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: just so dissatisfied, there's this distaste in their mouth when
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: politics comes up. So and to be introduced to someone
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: who is a normal person, just having a normal conversation,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: and they can feel safe and they can feel courageous
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: in stepping out and feel patriotic again. You know, for
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: so many people, it's felt like our flag has been
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: co opted by a type of one brand of politics.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: And they do love their country, they do love their state,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: and they want to feel patriotic and my conversation have
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: been so wonderful. I'm having the time of my life.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that says about me, but this
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: is by far the most rewarding, most exciting thing I've
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: ever gotten to be a part of. And I've gotten
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: to do some really fun things in my life, so
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: it's an honor.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Well, if you don't enjoy people, then don't do politics, right,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: So how did you get here? Tell me why you are?
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: This is like choosing to climb Mount Everest. You know
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: it's noble. I'm impressed, But it's a pretty impossible task. Sure, well,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I do nearly about not impossible. Improbable maybe the better way.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: You know, And it is. It's a new era where
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: the things that used to have to be in place
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: for you to reach people and for you to find people,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: some of those barriers have been taken down. But I
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: will say that I love nothing more than being underestimated,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: and I love nothing more than a challenge. So for
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: most of my life I have spent my career in
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: areas of injustice. I've spent fifteen years in global counter
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: trafficking efforts around the world and have just enjoyed putting
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: myself in places of darkness and frustration, trying to bridge
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: you know, goodness in those areas. And I looked around
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: several years ago and realized that my career was Cibish
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: shift in flexpurvis because of the greatest area of injustice
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: that I saw was the electorate around me. The voters,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: my neighbors is feeling so defeated, so frustrated, and everybody's
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: talking about how much they hate the way things are,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: So why not why not be a part of making
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: it something better for them?
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Tell me how this happened in Tennessee. Look this is
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: and you know Lamar notes it in his book, and
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: it was certainly the Tennessee that I started covering in
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the early nineties. What you know, it was that you
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: started to see the shift where the Republican Party was
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: sort of became the you know, essentially the slight lead dog, right.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: You sort of saw it right around ninety four Jim
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Sasser losing, you know, Jim Sasser wins that race he
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: was on probably to be the Senate That people don't
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: realize it's the only reason Dashell ended up the Senate
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Democratic leader after Mitchell was because Sasser loses that race
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: and it is. We see this, but it was a
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: competitive two party stay until it wasn't. It was yes,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Phil Bretson and Erin Ford. It doesn't feel like that
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: long ago that Phil Brettison was elected twice as governor.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Harold Ford came within a nosehair of really of defeating
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Bob Corker and a Senate race in two thousand and six.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Now that's now twenty years I get it. And Bretison's
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: last Senate race didn't go so hot. It wasn't a
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: close race. What shifted what happened?
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we can easily look to twenty ten
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: in the Supreme Court decision around Citizens United. I mean,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: it's an easy place to go to to just see
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: where the money in politics has shifted. And then, of
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: course the rise of media in the way that new
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: media has affected things. And I do think that the
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Republican Party has been a much better organizer in the
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: new media space of pushing a very consistent message of
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: who they are. And so, you know, there was there
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: was a lot of frustration during the Obama years whether
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: or not the real story was told about his leadership.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I grew up in a very conservative home,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: and I think we've watched you know, people who are
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: values centered individuals feel that. I'm going to say this
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: as someone who is a Christian, a devout Christian faith
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: and was raised to believe that if I voted for
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: a Democrat, that was a ticket straight to help.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: I mean that that you were raised that way, you
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: felt raised that way, or that was your community made
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that feel made you feel that way.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I mean both. My mom shared a picture with me
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: recently of my you know, picture when I was three
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: sitting in front of George Bush when senior, when he
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: was elected, and you know, just the uh, the Republican nature.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: In my home. There was concern over my aunt, who
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: voted for Bill Clinton. And I remember, you know, as
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: a kid, asking well, she could possibly we do that?
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: And there was one Democrat in my church and every
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: time you prayed, people were like, oh, well, I mean,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I hope that God hears that because he's a Democrat.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: So that was it was my culture, but it was
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is something that is very pervasive and
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: it does sink into you when you're a person of
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: faith in that you do tie politics to faith, it
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: becomes so intrinsic that it's hard to separate yourself from that.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about this issue of that a
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: little bit, this sort of politicizing evangelical Christianity, because I
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: did a special on this back in my Meet the
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Press days. We did a special about sort of the
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: rise of Christian Nationalism and Tennessee. It was in Tennessee
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: that there was a couple of Christian nationalist pastors who
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: sat down with us to explain, you know what they're
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: you know, why they why they woke this in and
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: then speaking with Russell Moore, who's who's the editor in
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: chief of Christianity Today and it's kind of really been
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: very critical of many of today's evangelical leaders for sort
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: of putting politics over their faith.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: But the the sad conclusion I came to doing that
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: special was these pastors just felt as if if they
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: didn't shift, if they if they emphasized Christianity more than
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the politics, that they were going to lose people, they
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: were going to lose the pews would be empty. And
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: then in some ways this was a basically the congregants
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: made this decision for them. You get that sense, is
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: that how you see it or how how many, how
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: you think why this real politicizing of the of the
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: of the church happened in the South.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's something that's always been a strategic
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: move for a presidential candidate to pull in the event,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: the evangelical, you know, right into their base. And and
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: that's why we saw even as late as was at
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Eisenhower that put in God, we trust on money. I mean,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: this was this was not this was not old history
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: for us, right, So these ships Jimmy Carter.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I always remind people it's Jimmy Carter that brought evangelicals
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: into the political space first. And in fact, his candidacy
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: was very popular and he created this cross partisan network
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: because of his faith. Then of course that all he
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: lost it all after four years.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Sure, And you know, and I think that that's why
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: it was hard for him to govern, because his faith
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: was so so pure and so such a huge part
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: of who he was. He was preaching and teaching Bible
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: classes until his death. And I love Christian Dumay's book
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Jesus and John Wayne, and just there's so much there
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: that that my life intersects with. And yeah, I think
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: that there's some of it that comes from the pulpit.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: I think it's something that comes from the congregants. But
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in many churches you find the American flag there, you know,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: in the church building, you know, and so our nationalism
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: is tied with this message that God ordained the United
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: States and that the reason that the United States has
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: been so successful is as we're a Christian nation, and that,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: you know, liberty and freedom are all tied to that.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: You've get a very different message in the black church.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: In the South. There's different frames for theology, and so
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: you've got liberation theology that runs through the black churches
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: in a very different way. But I'll say even there,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: you know, I can politic all day in a black church,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: and that's expected because politics is also intertwined there. But
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: I hear from I hear from, you know, my black
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: neighbors in Memphis, like, I'm so tired of people overlooking
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: me because they assume that I'm going to vote like
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: a Democrat because I'm a black woman, and nobody ever
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: tries to earn my vote. And so on both sides
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: of the fence, you have this moment where people are
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: feeling disenfranchised and kind of out of touch with where
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: things have gone.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: You know, it's funny I hear this argument about our
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: founders and that no, no, no, no, we were a Christian nation.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: It's like if they were there there, you know, they
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: left the Europe because for religious freedom, and they were
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: you know, if they believed what these folks want us
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: to think, they believed it would have been embedded in
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: our constitution. They specifically did not put it in. They
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: went out of their way. It's like it is. It's
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: very frustrating, this misinterpretation of history that you see. That's
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: right with those that want to embed religion into the right.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: It's a huge misinterpretation, and it's a misinterpretation of the
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: word liberty. I was in a governor's round table last
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: night with one of my opponents who is running on
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: liberty and less government, and I to think, man, we
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: interpreted that so differently, because for me, liberty means I
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: don't have to I don't have to bow down to
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: a party structure that tells me what to say behind
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: a microphone, and less government doesn't mean that I take
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: away people's human rights and their religious freedom. You know,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: So we definitely are interpreting that very differently. And I've
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: lived in a communist nation. I lived in a communist
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: nation for five years and worked there.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: That tell me about it was in Southeast Asia.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Where we yeah, we lived in Laos, and so you
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: in office on drugs and crime, the first anti trafficking
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: bill that was passed with parliament we were advising on.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: I just and I worked alongside people who had been
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: persecuted for their faith. Every Christian that I knew there
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: knew someone who had been in prison or killed or
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: had their business burned down because of their faith. And
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: so I often feel like you can miss me with
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: the Christian persecution in the United States, because I've.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Seen sure what real persecution looks like.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: You know. The biggest challenge for independent candidates is the
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: fact that to me, the message is the easy part,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: meaning you know why you want to run. You have
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: to be consumed with the mechanics right most, if you're
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: a Democrat or a Republican, you don't have to worry
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: about the mechanics of a race. You don't have to
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: worry about how to find workers, how to find money,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: how to get on the ballot. And this becomes for
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: independent candidates, it becomes almost half the battle, which unfortunately
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: takes you away from what you really want to do,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: which is persuade, you know, talk about why you want
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: to be governor and persuade folks. Tell me about the
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: mechanical difficulties in Tennessee, just very Tennessee specific. What's it
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: take to get on the ballot and how hard is this?
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're not wrong about that. It'd say ballot
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: access is the easiest thing for us. This is going
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: to blow your mind. But it takes twenty five signatures
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: to get on the ballot.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: It's great, well, good for Tennessee that they make it
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: that easy. Not every state does that.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: It's great until there's a lot of people that are
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: running as an independent, because literally anybody can get on
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: the ballot. So, you know, my my challenge is ballot
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: it would be about eleven people. And I should have
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: changed my last name to make sure that I was
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: you know, my last inside.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: How do they put it on the ballot? Do the
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: major party candidates get up top and then independents are below?
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Is that how they do it?
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: That's right? And my last name is Kingston, So I
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: mean we're going to have to really flood the state
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: with name recognition. So that's you know, we're I guess
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: political science says you need seven touches people need to
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: interact with your name seven times to consider voting for you.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: I'm having to run off of the assumption that we
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: need one meaningful interaction with me or my campaign, and
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: so we've designed our outreach and our mobilization strategy around that.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: We can talk about that in a bit. But from
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: the mechanics side, you're not wrong. It was I called
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: people on the Republican side and the Democrat side who
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: were longtime operatives and talked about this race, and they
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: were interested, they were curious. They said, I think you've
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: got a good chance, but I don't want to kill
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: my business if I work with you. So there's that
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: loyalty that's hard.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: This is true a lot of firms, you know. Now
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: on the Republican side, you have two purity tests. Right,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: if you work for somebody that Trump doesn't support, almost
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: the equivalent of working for an independent.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: That's right, That's exactly right. I mean, we've had over
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty seven events now, we have across
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: the state multiple times. I've got over thirty people on staff,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: and we have we're inching up to a quarter of
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: a million dollars in our budget. You know that we've raised,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: so we're not We're not doing terribly, and I think
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: people are shocked at how much early traction we've had.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: And so it's I was expecting that no one would
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: acknowledge our race on either side until after the primaries,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: because once you start, you know, saying my name, then
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: then you're giving you're giving me a lot of a
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: lot of wind in our sales. But those attacks started
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: last week already, So that's that's good news for my campaign.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Realistically, for you to have a chance, the Democrats have
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: to take an me yes, and what's the likelihood of that?
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: What's the likely you can get a situation like dan
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Osborne as in Nebraska, right.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: and I will always protect, uh, protect the innocent. But
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: my competitor to the left has been getting a lot
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: of phone calls from people in the state party asking
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: her to step down, and I think that that's why
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: those attacks have begun. So the Democrats know they don't
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: have a chance in a state wide race. They have
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: nineteen percent of voters in the state and Republicans only
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: have thirty seven forty four percent of voters in Tennessee
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: actually act as independent, So there's there is a there's
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: a small chance for that. I know she's getting a
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: lot of pressure, but I'm not sure what she'll decided
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: There's an actual primary in August. Is there anything for
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: you to do for that primary day? I mean, obviously
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: you're not on the ballot for anything. There's not a
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: place for the independence on there. But what is you know,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's a rough time. I always
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: think that's a rough time for an independent candidate, which
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: is because all of a sudden, this is a massive
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: amount of tention that the two major parties get sure
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: becomes a tough period for you to break through.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Well, I made some assumptions going into this race, and
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: one assumption, you know, I'm running a few scenarios on
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: the Republican side depending on how the primary goes.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: But there was is there an assumption that Marshall Blackburn's
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: not going to be the Republican nominee.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: You know, it'll just be interesting. Tennessee has the lowest
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: voter turnout in the entire nation, and about fourteen percent
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: of people vote in primaries, and so it'll be interesting
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: to see how people come out to vote because there
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: is a strong disinterest in having her as our next governor.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: And so I'm child I mean, you know, I would
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: just say if you just look at the large environment.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to make this about her individually, but
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: just the large environment. I know, I would, you know,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: be an incumbent whether you're left or right right, having
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: been in Washington a long time, like these are not
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: things that voters that are unhappy with our situation in politics,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: which is pretty much across the board right now. She
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: does not check boxes for what voters supposedly are looking
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: for at the moment. So yeah, it does make me
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: a little curious to see how strong, you know, she
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: She might not be as strong as she thinks she is, right, she's.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Not, And I think that there's a lot of concern
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: within the within the state GOP. And that's another reason
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: why this was the race for me to jump into.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: And also it almost feels like someone wrote this documentary
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: for us. Marsha Blackburn and my competitor to the left
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: is Jerry Green, likely to win her primary women right
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: three white women with blonde hair and colors in their name.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: I said, this is just too good. So it's going
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: to be it'll be a lot of fun.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: And you're right, Blackbird Pinkston, look at this green that's pretty.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: The great national story there.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: It is the Benetton the colors of Benetton, Tennessee.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Right anyway, so we know we can win with some
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy five thousand votes across the state.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: And that was a number that felt like, okay, if
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: this is you know, really with almost five million voters
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: that are registered and only fifteen percent of gen Z
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: voted in the last election, there's there's a real opportunity
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: here to grasp all.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Right, what's you look? A good campaign has one or
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: two big ideas that that that stick. Right, it's it's
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: it's sometimes unfair. I was interviewing a candidate recently where
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I could tell they really understood all facets at the job.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: And you wanted to say, this person, be careful. That
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: is it. You know your people's eyes will glaze over. Unfortunately,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: that's not this. You're not applying for a job like
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: letting people know that you understand every department. You know,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a different and and and I always
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: feel for those cadidates because I think they get very frustrated.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: But but, but, but I have all this, But we've
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: seen this. The most qualified person doesn't always win.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: What's your What's what do you? What do you hope
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: are your big ideas that stick that's going to get
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: this gen Z vote to say, you know what, maybe
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: she's worth coming out and voting or disaffected ours or
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: disaffected these what what? What's the what's your pitch?
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of things that we want to
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: make sure when people interact with us, they feel they
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: feel smarter, they feel more, you know, knowledgeable about things.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: And I love teaching. I love teaching on Instagram and
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: short form content and on social media. That's something I've
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: been doing for years, and so we love engaging people there.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: And I talk specifically to teachers. I actually started my
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: career in the elementary classroom, and so reforming education and
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: making the classroom a fun place to work and education
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: a fun field that is respected again has been where
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: we've seen a lot of traction and a lot of
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: early support. So that and then just talking to me.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: A powerful constituency if they band together.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and they are, I mean they have, They're talking
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: to each other in their schools, They're inviting me for tours,
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: and it's been that's been a huge core group for us.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: When I look at the state, it still feels like
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: it's Tennessee and then memphips and I say this, it
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: feels like as Tennessee in some ways. Look, Nashville's getting
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: the super Bowl, right, Nashville has been promoted from mid
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: size city to major city. Right, you get a super Bowl,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: You're major city now is and Memphis just feels neglected.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: And I've always feared that the reason it's neglected is
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: due to politics. That basically the rest of the state
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: views Memphis as this either African American city or Democratic city,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: and there's you know, in the last ten years, it's
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: almost felt like a shift away from it. Look, I'll
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: be honest, I was driving through the city recently, and
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time there in the late
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: nineties early aughts, and it was in bad shape. The
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: city needs some help, and it doesn't look like the
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: state's that interesting.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: You know, You're right, Nashville is like the oldest alfa
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: child that gets everything important to this and gets all
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: the accolades. And Knoxville's doing its thing as the middle child,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: being really good at sports and just staying quiet. And
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Chattanooga is living its best life as the youngest child
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: of the state.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Just living about Chattanooga. I got a friend who's at
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: the University of Swanee who daughters at SWANI. I just
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: love Chattanooga.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: It's oh, it's having It's just yeah, it's it's having
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: the time of its life. In Memphis is definitely that
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: that step child that just gets nothing and then is
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: told to be grateful. Anyways, and we've watched it be
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: kicked around with a National Guard and two hundred and
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: twenty one million dollars of federal tax dollars spent just
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: on an hotel to fill it with thirteen different agencies
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: for the year, you know, instead of investing in a
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: five hundred police officer shortage in the in the metro area.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: So there, you know, that money could have been spent
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: so much better. And you're right, they were chasing headlines.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: Crime was at a twenty year low, but the investments
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: have not been made there. There's some huge things happening
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: with XAI and SpaceX and it's a intentious it's a
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: contentious topic for sure, But overnight XAI became the second
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: largest taxpayer in the state compared in the city, excuse me,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: compared to FedEx. So there will be a lot of
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: money coming in. I just want to make sure that
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: it's going to the right places, because there are great
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: people doing amazing things all over the city, and it
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel like it when you drive through it.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: No, it just feels a bit neglected. I'm mildly surprised
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: FedEx hasn't been a little more robust and get in Nashville,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: get in the capital to pay a little bit more
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: attention in the right ways.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: It's a healthcare hub. You know, you've got Saint Jude,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: You've got Lebonner, And when I talk to the CEOs
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: there and their government specialists, you know they can't find
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: people to come. The Saint Dude can't recruit medical professionals
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: anymore because they can't get an H one B visa.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: And then Labonner can't get professionals to come because they
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: hear it's Memphis and they say, well, we get people here.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: It's fine, but we can't even get them to come
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: and visit because of the reputation that Memphis has now
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: and so there's a there's a rebrand that's needed for sure.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: So you get elected governor, than what I mean, it
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: would be a huge deal, right, it would be a
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: big deal if it happened. You're probably dealing with a
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: very conservative legislature. How do you govern?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: There's going to have to be some shifts right in
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: the way that we talk about these things. The governor's
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: office intendency is actually quite weak when it comes to
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: our state constitution, and so some things that get put
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: in state.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Governor has a lot more strength in its own way.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Is that still elected by the state legislature.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: The lieutenant governor is the speaker of the Senate. So
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: that's yeah, that's how that works. So you know, there
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: will be some levers to pool with just making sure
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: that we're mapping and mapping data and taking calls to
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: the Governor's office specifically, because.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by mapping data?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Explain that so when people call in about a different
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: about a specific issue our site. Our state constitution doesn't
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: even allow for ballot initiatives, for ballot measures, and so
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: we need to make sure that the calls that we're
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: getting can be visualized. If you're calling about an issue
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: that we are making that open source data, you can
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: see on a plot point of where people are on
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: a particular issue. And I'm sending those reports to all
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: thirty three Senators, all ninety nine representatives each week because
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: I want to know that if you're sending a bill
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: to my desk, get better. You know, if it's not
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: backed up by the will of the people, you better
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: have a good long list of reasons why that is.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: And I want to have the data to show the
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: people why I am, why I'm vetoing or why I'm
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: signing a bill. And so i'd love to see some
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: revisions to our constitution to allow for ballid initiatives. But
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: that's one thing. You know, We're going to have to
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: make sure that there's a much closer relationship with the press,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: and that's legacy media and new media. And I want
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: to make sure that we're actually investing in chief Information
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: officers at the county level so that we have people
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: who are bringing good governance and good government information to
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: people in vertical format, you know, and the way that
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: they receive it now that we're putting that power into
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: the government again, because no one is sitting around trying
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: to click through a county website to figure out when
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: they're having a commission meeting and where the agenda is
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: and when they show up, you know, So we've got
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: to make that information more accessible in twenty twenty six.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: So clarity and sunshine laws. What is the state of
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: sunshine laws in Tennessee.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm going to have to dive deeper in into that.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, no, I mean, you know, it's there
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: were good movements in the seventies and eighties in a
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: lot of southern states, and there's certainly a reasonable amount
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: of where it's improved the ability. You know, Florida, for instance,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: has terrific sunshine laws and it's served as a pretty
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: good check even as there's been sort of one party
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: rule when it comes to sort of figuring out deciding
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: to run for governor. Did you reach out to any
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: former governors? I did.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: I'm still making some phone calls to former owners. Again.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: I want to.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Response, but names if you don't want to do names
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: if you do.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Great outside of Tennessee. Very responsive in Tennessee. A little trepidacious.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: I did meet with a formers.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: They look like they might be, you know, hurting their
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: own party if they talk to you, right, whether it's
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: a Phil Breteson, Bill Haslam, whatever.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. I did meet with a former
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: senator that's very beloved a couple of weeks ago. And
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of my name circulating in Republican circles
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: by know, and people are hungry for this. A lot
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: of their chiefs of staff and a lot of their
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: strategists are very interested and are jumping on board with
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: a campaign. Former GOP political director for the state as
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: has taken a pretty big part in my campaign. And
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: former Democrats that ran as Democrats and did really well
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: in Memphis and Nashville have taken a big part in
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: my staff. But you know, I'm I'm always towing the
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: line between pushing for what we need right now and
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: the names and the and the cur bridge that we
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: need from our former leaders in this moment and understanding
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: that people, businesses and their reputations they're all tied and
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: what decisions they they make and so've you've been dancing though.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting and it's interesting to me sort of
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: what you hinted at, and it tells me that if
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: I looked at it regionally, the East Tennessee Republicans were
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: the dominant you So basically they were the pioneers of
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: the modern Republican Party. They put the modern Republican Party
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: in power. They have since been eased out of power
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: inside the Republican Party, I mean Lamar Corker, Frest, Fred Thompson.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: They basically almost all essentially East Tennessee, Eastern you know,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: that part of the state, and you know, and the
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Haslims as well. And now it definitely feels as if
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: and you see this anywhere, right the first anytime a
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: party breaks through, it's a moderate version of that part.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: And then the more entrenched they get, then the base
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: flexes its muscles and that's usually when you sort of
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: get over your skis right, and that's what the snap
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: back happens. So it sounds like you think that there's
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of the sort of more you know that
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: the Republican part of the original pioneers of the eighties
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: and nineties Republican Party are not I do not want
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: to I'm not employing la supporting you. You know, No,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: he is not, And there's no doubt he is out
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: of in that way, he's out of politics. Sure, but yeah,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: go ahead.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: Well, if I am on the phone with one region
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: of the state more than any, it's in the Knoxville
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: area in East Tennessee for sure. Yeah, that's where people
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: have been so engaged and they understand, they understand how
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: things work. There's there's just such a deep history of
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: good governance out of East Tennessee, and so they are
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: the most concerned. For sure. Nashville's a lot of new
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: folks that are more fresh traded with the Democratic Party.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I mean, I look, I'm familiar with
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Senator for frustrations, you know, and that he just just
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: sort of walked away from politics because he you know,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: he doesn't feel like that there's you know, if science is,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: here's a here's a world famous heart surgeon, and science
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: is being rejected in parts of his party. And I think, look,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not I don't want to put words in his mouth,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: but I think that he's just like, Okay, I can't
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: be effective in this party right now.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure, And I appreciate the contributions that he's continuing
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: to make and conservation and in science. I think that's
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: so important. I will continue to knock on doors, and
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: I will continue to pester people. I have no problem
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: doing that, and I know how to do that in
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: my nice, southern, southern white way. But I think at
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: some point we're going to, especially after the primaries, have
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: to look across the board and say, from bretz Inda
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: Haslam to the Corker to Alexander to Frist, you know,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: we're all going to have to come together and say,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: for the sake of our state and for the stake
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: of our union, we're going to have to be courageous
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: and make some make some bold statements about what it
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: means to be a leader rather than to be a
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: party the party puppet.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: What do you think the biggest change your election could
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: give to the state, Like, what's you know? In some
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: ways sometimes need a neon sign right to let people know, hey,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: changes here would what would that neon sign be for you?
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Well, it would be a shock to our legislature for sure,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: and it would be a brutal couple of years, I
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: mean the first couple of years of me as leader.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Well, you could ask Jesse Ventura. Look, he struggled to
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: govern that state. He had literally one uh. The House
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: was I think Democrat, the Senate was Republican. And you
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: know that is that that can happen to independence in
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: that you almost have a duopoly of opposition.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: M it'll be interesting, I think, I think more than anything,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, I hope what will happen is that we
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: will have a resurgence of people of courage and of
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: character that are running for office. Again, I don't know
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: that that will be to happen within the leadership that
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: we have in the Republican Party in the state. Right now.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: They kick sixteen moderates off of ballots in the last
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: election for various reasons that were really wild. In many cases,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: hundreds have been kicked off of ballots this election because
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: of bylaws around donations to the party or whatnot. So
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: it's an interesting time and our look, I think this
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: is what people don't understand about Tennessee because we are
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: one of the few states that you don't have to
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: register with a party to get a voter ID, and
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: so our party infrastructure is super weak. We may look
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: like a strongly read state, but that is not the
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: case because our parties, they're monthly meetings, don't have more
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: than twenty thirty people there, maybe on either side, you know,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: so it's not like it's this engaged, well organized party.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: But as a friend told me when I jumped into
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: this race, he said, Lauren, Republicans, he said, Democrats know
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: how to get out and Republicans know how to get
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: in line. And I ket that really close and want
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: to make sure that Republicans in this state who are
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: upset with the way things are happening, have an on
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: ramp to something different, because they're looking for an off
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: ramp and it's not going to be towards the Democratic Party.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: How would you can look? I'm thinking about what your
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: winning coalition would look like for you, and in my
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: head it is somehow African Americans in Memphis and the
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: East Tennessee sort of moderates and it you know, I
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: can see the math equation, but that's easier said than done.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: How do you get that? How do you get that
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: coalition to happen? How do you convince African Americans in
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Memphis that you know, in East Tennessee sort of chamber
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: of commerce Republicans that that your governorship will look out
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: for both of them. You know, they they've not always
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: been in the same coalition together. They've never been in
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: a coalition together before.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: Well, it's wild that that is happening, and you're naming
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: it exactly. It's it's those it's those groups, and it's
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: the progressives in Nashville who I was in a room
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: with only the Credit candidates recently, and when I left
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: that room, there was a lot of skepticism walking in.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: And when I left, the women in that room said, Okay,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: I get it because I can actually talk to my
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: dad about you. And so, you know, winning the progressives
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: in Nashville, winning the faith the groups of faith around
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: the state, and rural communities in Tennessee have been huge
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: for us. The rural areas are just such a strong
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: place for us to have these conversations. And then Nashville
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: has the largest Kurdish population outside of the Middle East,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: you know, so really getting in with groups of voters
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: who have kind of been on the fringes and not
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: been very politically engaged, especially if they're second or third
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: generation immigrants. At this point, they're ready to jump in,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: whereas their parents kind of felt like they were outsiders
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: to the political space. But the second and third generation
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: immigrants are there and they're ready. So and then we
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: have a huge lau population and I happen to speak loud,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: so that helps too. So we're really looking at those
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: grass tops leaders. And we've launched a video that We've
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: invited everybody that wants to have ten or fifteen people
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: over put your phones in a box for an hour,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: and we've produced a video that I'm there asking questions.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: It's called conscious Conversations, nothing abrasive. We're not asking Okay,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: what do you think about abortion? Right? It's just what's
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: keeping you up at night. Here's the history of our
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: state and why we are the state to turn the tide.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: I fully believe that based off of our history and
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: who we are and our path to victory and asking
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: people to get involved. So that video is going to
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: be huge for us, and just expanding my presence around
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: the state. That's that meaningful touch with a campaign that
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Can you succeed with that wedding for sure? What does
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: that look like to you?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Keeping my family intact and my kids. I've got four
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: kids and I want them to be proud of me.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: They're sixteen down to four. We just had three birthdays,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: so I'm I'm outing again, but yeah.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: Our birthdays are springing my and my world too as
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: spring birthdays.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a busy time. And so someone said,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: you know, Lauren, if you're walking out of the house
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: to go to a political event and it looks like
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: your husband's not going to vote for you, you don't
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: go to that event. And that's great advice. So there's
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of ways to win. I think giving people
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: again just an on ramp back to political engagement and
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: to feel good at being in the public square again.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: We're going to need a strong coalition to push back
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: against a super majority in the state. If this is
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: a loss in November, I'll at least have a whole
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: long list of names that we can call on in
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: ways that we can mobilize to resist the press of
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: legislation that's coming through.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: Do you are you trying to build a third party
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: or are you just trying to get the two parties
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: to reform themselves and not forget about independence.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: I think modern democracy really points to more than two options.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: And you know this as well, that our our founding
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: fathers warned against two parties, and his farewell addressed George
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Washington warned against two parties, and so there's always been
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: this warning against it, but we continue to fall into it.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: The world is much more complex than a binary system,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: and some of the most thriving democracies in the world
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: have four or five six parties, and so I think
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: that we're going to have to get to that place.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: And the more that the next generation provels, the more
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: they're going to understand that and be open to that.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, I see the Working Families Party really growing
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: traction in parts of the country. Of course, I'm aligned
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: with a Forward Party and endorsed by the Forward Party.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: We don't have balid access in Tennessee, and I needed
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: to just run this race as an independent instead of
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: splitting the brand two ways. But I'm very excited about
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: what's being built there, and I really have hope that
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: we'll we'll have more than more than two parties. But regardless,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: even if we even if we fall back into a
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: two party system, I think that it will become a
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: more moderate two party system.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Well, look, that's to me, you know. I always say
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: Row was very successful. Even though he didn't win in
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: ninety two, it had it had certain impacts on governing
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: that wouldn't happen had his candidacy not gotten some traction.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Right before we started our interview, I was the one
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: to inform you that we just had a dropout of
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: arguably the most prominent independent candidate for governor in the country,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Mike Duggan, former mayor of Detroit. He decided to drop
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: out work. Look as the time that you and I
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: are talking were literally like the news broke about thirty
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: minutes before I think our interview took place, So you know,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: we don't know the context. I can tell you it
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: was he was, you know it what he was betting
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: on a year ago inside of both parties didn't quite
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: come to fruition. It wasn't divisive primaries, and you know,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: he was looking short of for this perfect little path,
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: and it was it was certainly you know, I think,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: in hindsight, if you're going to be governor, you probably
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: should have run inside the Democratic Party. But he had
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: a unique you know, he came in with a constituente.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: He was the mayor of the state's largest city, so
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: it's a different situation. But I get the sense it's
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: a bummer for you that you know here, you know,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: there was this sort of group of you independents that
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: have been showing some strength. He's one of them, yourself,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: and Dan Osborne and Nebraska's badner in Montana now Kevin
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Kylie and the member of Congress who left left the GOP.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: I got the sense that it's you're a little disappointed,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: you know, it's I have.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: So much respect for Mike Dugan and the things that
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: he's done in Detroit. My husband is actually from Flint,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: so we fly up for a game football game very often,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: and the things that have happened in Detroit are remarkable,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: and I have a lot of respect for him. He
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: is in a different political environment than I am here
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: and so.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: There's totally different.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: But you're right that there is this rise. I think
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: this year is the greatest caliber of independent candidates I've
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: ever seen in the last decade or two.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: Not the Star Wars you know, the joke is always, yeah,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: but it can't it's have a little Star Wars bar scene.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: It's my goodness, this is the least Star Wars bar
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: scene a group of independent ti I think, you know,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: we leave that to the Libertarians and the Greens to
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: fulfill the Star Wars part of things. But you're yes,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: you about this. It's very mainstream this year.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: And typically You're right, there have been some kooky, very
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: very interesting candidates, but I praise.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: There's a favorite favorite of mine from Tennessee guy named
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: John Jay Hooker, who uh is just a character. And
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: if you this is a classic case if you know,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: you know the fact that you just immediately laughed, not
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: much more you can say, I don't know. I think
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: some of the stories are not safe for work.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: But anyway, I do wonder if I'm too normal and
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: too educated, like can I really do?
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: You know? It's funny you say that. I'm a little
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: concerned about that as I've been interviewing you, like are
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: you you know? You know, in a weird way? Is
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: politics now about being unique and different and weird, not
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: mainstream and normal? You know?
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But I did
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: meet Seth this week, and you know that's running out
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: in Montana and I am just a great guy and
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: some of these some of these leaders, there's going to
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: be an announcement. Well I'll just I'll keep it quiet.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: But there's some really awesome people that have left their
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: parties and I'm excited for the caliber of candidates that
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: we're seeing this year of just principal people, and of course,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: like we've said, that aligns with the numbers of the electorate.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: And people deserve a choice, and regardless of whether you're
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: running in a party structure or not, choices on the ballot,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: and we can celebrate that.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: Tell me about Nashville. I think a lot of us
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: have thought the growth of Nashville was actually going to
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: purple the state up a little bit, right, you know,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: there's so many and then you know, I've had a
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: good friend of mine who's tenant East Tennessee native, who says,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: you know that the people moving to Nashville are coming
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: actually from from the Midwest, and there are a lot
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: of former Republicans who are coming in and and are
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of tax allergic. So they like the
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: no income tax and that's it, and that is that
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: is brought and that Nashville isn't becoming Austin or Northern
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: Virginia or Atlanta.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: You are, that person is exactly right. Nashville's not a
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: voting city either. So if we're going to be clear,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: like the voter turnout in Memphis and in Nashville is
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: really low compared to some of the surrounding suburban areas.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: But we of course had the T shirts like a
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: lot of other states during the COVID era of don't
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: California my Tennessee. And I just kept saying to people,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: you know, these are political These are people who identify
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: as political refugees, not as not as Democrats, and so
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: they are coming in many cases more Republican than what
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: they're finding when they get here. And I had a
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: neighbor call up. She reached out a couple of weeks ago.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: She said, Lauren, can you come over. I need to
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: need to understand politics in Tennessee. I don't understand what's happening.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: She said. I came here from California. I thought I
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: was moving to a really republican place, and I know
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: more Democrats here than I knew in California. And my
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: neighbor is a blazing Democrat. They send their kids to
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: a Christian school, and I cannot understand how you can
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: be a Democrat and do this. And I just don't
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: understand what's happening. And so I think that that was
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: a misconception again of who we are as Tennessee, and
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: just staunchly anti establishment anyways, but also just very purple
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: and our and our approach to stop voting purple well
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: because they haven't had an option, you know, the there
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: haven't been strong Democrats that have run, and there have
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: not been there's not been a strong independent to run.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: And so when you don't have anyone that puts their
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: name out there and is willing to overcome the barriers,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: then and work, work really hard. I quit all my
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: jobs to do this full time. So you have to
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: you have to have a candidate to vote for, but
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: that it is who we are at our core.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: I think about a guy like Phil Brettison, who was
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: the last sort of Democrat to show to show some electability.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: What is your sense of of is his style or
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: brand the right style or brand or is that outdated
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: as well? Am I thinking? Is that the wrong way
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: to think about this?
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: You know that the Democratic Party has changed so much
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: over the last few years too, that even the most
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: staunch Democrats are frustrated with their party and they're security
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: tests on the other side that they feel like they
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: can't win. And so to have so many very avid
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: organizers from the Democratic Party joining my campaign tells me
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: a lot that they're feeling frustrated. I think more than anything,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: people are so hungry for authenticity, and our chronic nature
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: of being online has made us so desperate for real
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: interactions with people that when you see someone who is
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: comfortable just talking and not running off of a script,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: not repeating talking points, is talking about things that involve
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: the future, like data centers, like data being the new oil,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: like the realities of what we're facing going forward, it
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: is refreshing. And so I do think that the time
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: of the former Republicans and Democrats is over and we're
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: going to need different leaders that are talking about issues
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: that involve the future.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: Look, Jesse Ventura one, when he got into the debates,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: it was a big important he had to you know,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: there was a bit of a threshold he had to meet,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: and he met it. And then once the debates happened,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: people saw him and we're like, oh, there's an alternatives
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: at the two parties? Is there a is there? What
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: are the impediments do you sit, you know, getting into
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: the debates do you expect there to be Do you
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: think you're going to have a hard time getting Congresswoman
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: Blackbird to participate in a debate that has you at it.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's going to be the first impediment
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: would be having her agree to a debate. And I
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: would say the same for John Rose if he, you know,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: Congressman Rose, if he decides to debate. I was in
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: a debate last night with a more further right candidate
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: on the Republican side who actually has a lot of
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: support in rural tyanacy, a lot of support in reural tenacy.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: So but you know, it was great to kind of
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: see the comments after that and people saying I'm ninety
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: nine percent sold after last night, or you know, I
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: was kind of on the fence and I and I
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: now that I can see you can hold your own
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: against anyone, sign me up. So that's I would I love.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: Have we seen the Blackburn campaign in person much? Have
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: you been in any events with her? Yet?
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: Only at you know, Republican fundraisers or at a Lincoln
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: dinner or Reagan dinner. It's the only the only places
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: that I've seen her in public, well, not me personally.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: No, that's what I mean. You haven't been any she
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't come to these joint candidate events yet I've.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: Met all the I have met all of my other
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: competitors in person except for I've met her before in person.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: I actually sang the national anthem for her in high
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: school when I was class president.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Is that right? That's funny? Yeah, sure, there's footage of
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: it somewhere.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: Right, Oh my goodness, I hope not, but that would
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: be that would be funny.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: Well, look, I mean I think we we know that
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: that nobody goes into a store and is satisfied when
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: the two choices are small, extra small, and extra large.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: Which great system?
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's right. Yeah, we don't. I said, we're capitalist
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: everywhere except for politics. You know, you would never be
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: satisfied with just a coke or a doctor pepper on
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: the on the shelf. So you have these conversations all
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: the time, Chuck. So you know, as as you're having
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: these conversations and you're do you see the same recalibration
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: that I'm seeing there?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: Look, you know, I go back, like I say, I
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: worship at the altar of politics supports of vacuum, and
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: you see it constantly, right, you certainly see it more
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: in governor's races and you do incentive races, but that
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: over time, no, no one party, no one party truly
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: holds in big states. It happens in super small states.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: Idaho is on its forty first year. South Dakota forty
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: one straight years where they've elected the same party as governor.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: You know, you've had an Idaho and an Oregon and
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: a Washington who have certainly gone with these huge streaks.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: But most of the time you get a lot of
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: Kansases and you get a lot of Massachusetts where where
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: there's like, oh, people, do nobody wants one party running
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: away with control? So you know it does you know,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: if if not now when for the independent movement? I
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: do believe that, right, You've got a unique situation where
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: three things are happening simultaneously. Both both parties are unpopular,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: the young, newest generation of voters are protesting the two
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: parties by registering as independent. So it's sort of like
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of it's it's never been the seeds of
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: the soil has never been better, right, that's right? Right?
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: Do you have the right fertilizer and you have enough irrigation,
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: you know, that's you know, it's it does feel as
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: if the ingredients are there. You know, it's about capturing
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: imagination and you know, I was with a former presidential
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: in it the other the other day who lamented how
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: much performance matters, but then said, but it does. In fact,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: this person said, I think more candidate training has to
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: be devoted to performance than to substance. And I can't
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: believe I'm saying that right. It was sort of like
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: lamenting that that's the truth. But you know, it is
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: going to be about what your your performance and ability
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: to break through that will matter more than any good
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: idea you might have. And that's just unfortunate how the
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: system works.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: I know, and I love my brain. I mean, I
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: rely on my brain. I'm a PhD.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I got a lot of big brain up there.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: I love.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: I love to rely on that. But but you're right,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: and this has been my critique of the academic space
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: as well for years that if we if we just
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: put out a lot of good ideas and they're not
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: relevant to people, then it doesn't you know, it really
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter. And so at the end of the day,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: it's how do you connect with people? Do you make
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: them feel sane, do you make them feel a part
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: of something, and do you spark their imagination? I think
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: that's we watched this with Momdanni in New York. And
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: you know, I think there's there's a lot of hope
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: for for this year. And you're right. I thought if
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: there was ever a year that I could authentically serve
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: as myself, I don't ever, I'm going to have a
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: hard time seeing myself fully in either party on either side.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: I would align with the Forward Party if we had
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: ballid access here in Tennessee. But I just if there
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: was ever a time for us to do it, it
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: was this year. And and there's there's some fun things happening.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: I've never met a voter who didn't say they thought independently.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: M You know, nobody wants to believe that they are
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: part of group think. Yeah, so so if you give
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: them the opportunity, you know, it's possible, but it takes
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: you know, this is this is not a muscle we
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: use very often in American politics, so it can Actually that's.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: True, that's true, and I will I will work harder.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: Gosh, I think I will say this. I've, like I said,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: I've run into you uh at multiple places where you
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: know you are you are working harder than the Ridge
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Independent Canada. I've seen like you're clearly not just doing
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: this as to say you did it.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: I really believe that people are going to die in
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: this state if we don't take this seriously. And I
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: look at my competitors and it feels very unserious. And
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: we're talking about governing an entire state, you know, And
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: I just I could not sleep at night imagining the
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: reality of the future for my kids, the reputation of
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: the state that I love, just continuing this viral downwards
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: if we didn't take this seriously. And the world is
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: moving so fast now that we cannot sit around talking
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: about culture wars and wasting taxpayer money on lawsuits that
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: are just so just so wasteful. I couldn't. I could
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: not sleep at night not jumping in because I do
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: believe that people will die if we don't address some
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: of the issues that are facing us today, and that
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: felt like a responsibility worthworth piking on.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll be watching. I appreciate the time you spend here,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: and you know, hopefully we'll catch up again.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me. Good to see you.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: Well. I hope you enjoyed the interview with Loren Pingston
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: there running as an independent in Tennessee, look, I think
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: the lack of political competition in these supposed ruby red
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: states or dark blue states is a real problem for
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: the democracy. And I also am somebody who believes that
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: every state is competitive. It is on the candidate to
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: go find the constituency that makes it competitive, meaning every
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: state has a folkrum point in it. The question is
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: whether there is a political party that is nimble enough
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: to find it and to represent it and to be
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: a voice for it, or is it work better in
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: the sort of less partisan atmosphere where you where an
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: independent who comes, you know, who doesn't necessarily fit perfectly
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: in the cookie cutter of the right or the cookie
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: cutter of the left can do this. So you know,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: I am convinced that the next non Republican elected statewide
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: in places like Tennessee are going to be independents, not Democrats,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: And so ditto you know in a South Dakota, by
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: the way, ditto in a Massachusetts. You know, the next
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: time a non you know, I don't, I'm not a
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: non Democrat win statewide. I don't think it's the R.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's more likely to be because I think
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: Trump has has made it very hard to do what
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: many an independent voter has done in Massachusetts for years
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: across that rubicon, I can you know I can vote
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: for the right kind of Republican. I think there is
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of skepticism, frankly, from in
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: the penance of whether if you're an independent in Massachusetts,
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: you're skeptical that these Republicans have stuck by Trump. And
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: if you're an independent at a place like Oklahoma perhaps
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: or in a place like Tennessee, you're skeptical of some
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: of these more liberal politicians right a little bit, and
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: you're and you're a little skeptical of of how come
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: these Tennessee Democrats haven't spoken out and pushed back against
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: the national shift right. So I think that's why, certainly
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: why I'm spending my time highlighting them a little bit more.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: That's another part of this, right, there's just not an
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: information ecosystem that has been very friendly to non major
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: to candidates that weren't either Republicans or Democrats. And the
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: fact of the matter is a majority of us are
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: somewhere somewhere in between those two parties. So yes, I
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: want to continue to be a home and a place
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: to get to know those that are trying to run, frankly,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: is just simply maturitarians. And all the people I've highlighted
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: in this space, that's what they really are. They're not
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: super laughter or super right. They're majoritarians. They're like, hey,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: there's a majority of us here. There's a sixty percent
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: majority that thinks this, this and this and these are
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: the issues. I'm going to focus on to the voters
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: to decide if that's what they really want. It's what
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: they tell posters they want, but they don't always vote
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: that way, and certainly part of some primaries make it
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: difficult for that to happen. All right, let me pivot.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: It's top five. It's a Wednesday episode, which means it's
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: time for a top five list. Top Given all of
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: what's happening in Maine, I think it's fair to say,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: let's figure out what is where things stand for the
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: longest time. My list of top five centate races most
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: likely to flip, I've gone off and on right now.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: I go back and forth between whether all you know,
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: whether Democrats have a better chance of flipping five seats
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: before losing one, meaning I have vacillated about how many
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: Democratic seats rise to the vulnerability level that they could
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: actually lose. Well, I think there is one in a
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: that that makes the top five list, but Maine does
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: fall down the ladder a little bit. And I will
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: tell you where I've put it and tell you where
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: what I'm going to be watching. But what's interesting is
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: is basically, if I were doing a top ten list,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: I would wish I had top fifteen. You know, there
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: are more Senate races that are that are that are
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: sneaking into the in play category, thanks to some independent candidates,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: thanks to some new candidates, thanks to some late breaking candidates.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: This is a you know, we keep portraying the Senate
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: cycle as sort of this, you know, it's a tough
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: cycle for Democrats to try to win. They don't, you know,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: but there is a put it this way, the number
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: of Senators that win with less than sixty percent of
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: the vote this cycle is going to be in the
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: double digits, probably closer to fifteen. And for me, if
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: you're winning a race with less than sixty percent, then
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: we're going to classify that race as basically semi competitive. Right,
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: if you're under twenty points, that's semi competitive, not super competitive,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: but it's it's in the semi category. And we've got
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of states that are falling in the semi
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: competitive too. Maybe they're going to get really competitive, right,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: whether it's Nebraska, Mississippi, Kansas, Minnesota, New Hampshire. Right, they're
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: all they're kind of on the outskirts. They're not. None
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: of those that I've talked about are ready to be
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: in top ten. But none of them are kickwalks for
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: the candidates that are leading. And I'll be honest with you,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: as the year is developed, you know, usually the odd
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: number year has sort of a growing well that boy,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: that center race could get competitive if such a us happened,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: and that race can get competitive, and then that that
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: thing never happens. That's we're in a different place here, right.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: We're seeing you know, like I said, late developments in Kansas,
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: We've got the late developments in Mississippi. We continue to
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: see surprising competition in Minnesota. So this is going to
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: be There's an old friend of mine, it used to
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: that i'd put in charge of center races years ago,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: and to this day he's still sort of a senate
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: race junkie, my friend Quinn McCord. So Quinn, I know
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: you're listening. I'd love for your hot take on this,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: because I think we're sneaking into a surprisingly deep set
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: of semi competitive center races, and I take it there.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not filled with swing swing races just yet,
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: but I feel like the trend is moving in that direction.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: So that said, let me update you with my top five.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: Number one has not changed, right. The number one seat
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: most likely to change parties is North Carolina remains North Carolina,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: and I can't imagine it budget. In fact, I think
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: North Carolina became more likely to flip to the Democrats
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: when Ken Paxton won the runoff against John Cornyn because
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: North Carolina is a very expensive state. Roy Cooper's raised
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: a ton of money. Michael Wattley, the Republican nominee, is
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: going to need a lot of extra help from the
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: national but guess what, it might not be a winnable race,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: and any extra resource is going to go to Republican
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: candidates in Ohio and Texas before they go to a
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: Republican candidate North Carolina. And because you now have expensive
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: states like Ohio and Texas that the Republicans have to
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: play defense on it. Yes, North Carolina's are two. If
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: they had, if you know, they weren't dealing with such
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: a massive deficit financially, maybe they would go ahead and
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: import more resources into there. But I don't see it,
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: and I think that Cooper gets safer by the day.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: I doubt any of our friends move this race from
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: lean Democrat to likely. To me, I wouldn't you know,
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: any race is going to be less than ten points,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: and I think this race is you know, it's North Carolina.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: It is tough for a Democrat to get more than
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: fifty three percent of the vote statewide. So I will
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: be you know, but I think Cooper's well on his
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: way to get into that fifty two to fifty three percent.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: And that's a pretty durable fifty two or fifty three
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: with Whatley sitting somewhere in the forty four to forty
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: seven percent range at best. And that may sound that's competitive, right,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: but that is not winnable. So number one there, Number
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: two is now Ohio. It's the first time I've put
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: it in the number two slot. Shared Brown's candidacy. We
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: saw that Fox News poll a couple of weeks ago
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: showed an eight point lead for him. We have seen both.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: Ohio is put it this way, the more on pot
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: Ohio clearly is a very light red state because Ohio
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: is in the battleground you know, thanks to Donald Trump's
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: approval rating falling below right around to forty and below.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: And when you're sitting in the thirty five to forty
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: percent job approval rating, Ohio and Iowa are going to
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: be in the swing state category once you're sitting income
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: at President that on the right is sitting with numbers
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: like that. So Ohio, as far as this election cycle
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: is concerned, is sitting in pure swing status and Shared
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: Browns has a pretty big advantage here. Look, it is
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: still Ohio. It is still you know, not going to
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: be easy. I do think unlike Michael Wattley North Carolina,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: John Houston, who's the appointed senator there is not going
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: to get abandoned by the National Party. There's going to
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: be resources for him. And they've run this race against
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: Shared Brown before. Now they've only beaten him once and
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: they had Donald Trump on the ticket. Right Without Donald
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Trump on the ticket, it's a lot harder to be
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: Shared Brown. And I think he is solidifying himself here
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: at number two, to the point where I think number
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: one and number two are in solid shape, and I
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: don't know if that changes that much over the next
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: couple of months. We'll see. That's why we campaigns play
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: themselves out. But it feels like those two are going
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: to be locked into one and two most likely to flip,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: and Ohio moving up there in the likely to flip
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: is as much of it is as much about what
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: Graham Platner to be honest as it is about Shared Brown.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: Shared Brown is definitely running a good race, is definitely
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: in the driver's seat here. The entire Republican ticket looks
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: very weak in Ohio. Ramaswami looks like is going to
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: be He might win still, but it's going to be
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: a slog for him. He is struggling in his matchup
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: with Amy Acton, and so the more competitive that Remember
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: the Wine won in a landslide two in twenty two
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: and in eight you know he won fairly comfortably, and
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: one year Shared Brown was on the ballot and that
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: still happened. So now you're gonna have a very much
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: stronger Democratic ticket than anybody anticipated. In addition to Shared
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: to with Shared Brown. So I think Ohio is in
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: a very strong position for Democrats would not have did
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: not fully I'll admit I did not fully see that coming.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: I thought they had gone to the shared brown well
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: one too many times. And look, we're still going to
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: find out in November. But it looks like a much
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: He looks like a much stronger nominee than I anticipated.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: And he's and things are looking good there for the
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: for Team Blue. Number three on the list is a
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: Republican seat, believe it or not, in It's Michigan, and
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: it's less about Mike Rogers and more about what's happening
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: in the Democratic primary. Mallory mcmorrow's slow fade, and I
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: call it a slow fad because she's still in double digits.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: He's still in the high teens. But her slow fade
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: has accrued to the benefit of Abdul al sayet, the
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: more progressive candidate. We've had this sort of you know,
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: I think you had a very establishment institutionalist candidate and
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: Ailey Stevens. You had super progressive candidate Bernie Sanders supported
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: and Abdul alsayed. Then he had Mallory mcmarroe sort of
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: playing the outsider role, trying to be a little bit progressive,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit institutionalists, right, And for the longest time
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: I thought her ability to split that difference was going
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: to be a strength. It's now turned into a weakness. Right,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: She's not enough of one thing, not enough of the other,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: and she's sort of, I think grabbing, ending up with
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: the worst of both worlds. And her numbers have started
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: to fade, and the first voter she has lost of
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: almost looks like they've all gone to Abdul al sayet
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: if he indeed wins this primary. And look, we've got
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: a long way to go here. This is an August primary,
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot more twists and turns.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: There's gonna be some huge money going up on behalf
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: of Hailey Stephens. Stevens APAC is certainly putting together quite
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: an impressive independent expenditure campaign on her behalf. And look,
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: their track record has been good in places like Illinois.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: I think they they're much better in the Midwest, you know.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: I think they've had a harder time in the East
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: Coast on some of the coastal races, but they've had
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: better They've had better success in I think in these
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: great late states and in the Midwest in general. We'll
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: see right, But I think you're gonna so this is
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: nothing's in stone, but this is this is not about
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: me saying I'm doing outside. It is going to be
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: a weak nominee for the Democrats. I certainly think that
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: he makes this race more competitive for Democrats than either
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: McMorrow or Stevens would they are. I think he he
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: would attract a lot more Republican money into the state
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: and you would see a much bigger effort. In fact,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: I mean i could see money going from Ohio to
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: Michigan and Republicans behalf deciding, well, they may might to
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: be able to beat Shared Brown, but if they trade
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Shared Brown for Mike Rogers, that's in net zero at
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: least in their heads. Right. So the point is Abdul
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: Siad's nomination is just simply like Ken Paxton in Texas
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: is just going to suck up more money on both
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: sides of the isle. You're going to have more Democratic
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: money have to go into the state to help him out.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: It's going to be awkward because he's rejected a lot
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: of outsider money. So I'm very curious how that would
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: go and how that would work. And then you would
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: have a lot more Republican interest in a more Republican
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: belief that they could win that Senate See, they don't
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: want to Republican Senate seed in Michigan's and Spencer Abraham
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four. It's been a very long time
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: since Republicans have been able to win a Senate seat.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: There come close, but a very long time. So right now,
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: I put that in a number three because that's if
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: the polls stay where they are and Asia it's the
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: Democratic nominee that that would make that's going to make
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: this a barn burner of a race. Not saying I
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: do Alsaia camp Win. I'm just saying he is going
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: to be the the Democrat that has the hardest time
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: winning this general election. And so number four on the
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: list is is Iowa. And I put Iowa over Texas.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: And just to you know, three races, di I was
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: choosing one here in Iowa, Maine in Texas, and of
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: the three I put Iowa. I think when you look
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: at strength of candidate, I think Turrek feels like he
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: is the the best fitting of the three of their state.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: The cost of the state, well, okay, both Maine and
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: Iowa are affordable. It's an open seat. In Iowa, it's
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: an open seat in Texas, Okay, very strong gubernatorial ticket
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: candidate in in Iowa less good, but certainly you're going
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: up against incumbent in Texas, and Maine is an open seat.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: So I think when you put the three together, I
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: think the current situation for Josh Turrek and Democrats in
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: Iowa is slightly better and slightly sort of the environment's
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: just everything's just a little bit better when you put
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: the whole picture together than Texas, which still feels like
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: everything can go right for Democrats and they still come
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: up a couple points short, or Maine that is I think,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, they were arguably Democrats ran an
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: almost perfect race in twenty twenty with a very generic
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: dem type of candidate and they lost by eight points,
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: right in a year that Biden carried that state quite comfortably.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: So I think we all underrate Susan Collins at our
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: own peril. And then throw in the fact that Plattner
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: may allow this race to become a choice, not a referendum.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: And so you put all those three together, and I
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: put I one now in the four spot, which is
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: a huge leap for it. But I think the look
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: I think Ashley Hinson's a very strong candidate, don't get
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: me wrong, and you can make a case that she
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: might actually be stronger than Jany Urns would be running
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: for reelection simply because of the lack of enthusiasm of
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: Trump World with johny Arns. But this governor's race could
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: be very competitive or it could go off the rails
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: quite quickly. Right, this is not a conventional Republican nominee,
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: Rob saying has a ton of money and he's already
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: unloading it on him. And the first hits are about
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: Zach Lane not being a full time Iowan. I mean,
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: you know the fact that he spends all this time
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: in Kansas, and there's a lot of his own words
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: saying We're going to spend as much time as we
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: can here. You know, it is it. It's probably a
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: pretty effective hit, right, most people are going to think
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: this is a full time job and that you can't
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: be going part time back and forth to Wichitah. That's
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: going to be I think that's going to be a
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: hit that leaves a mark to the point where I'm
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: guessing Lane's going to have to really come up with
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: a better answer than he's come up with about the
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: fact that he's and he said he's got a blended family.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: He's got some kids in Kansas and some of his
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: family in Iowa, and that that's what causes it. But
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: I think it could be a pretty The point is
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: is that Sam could draw really drag turk over the
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: finish line, and he's going to be enthusiastic to lead
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: this Democratic ticket. So I put Iowa number four and
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: at number five, I'm going to put Maine. And it's
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: really because of Collins's unpopularity. I am skeptical Platner. I
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: think this is, you know, under the perfect circumstances, defeating
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: Susan Collins for Democrats has been quite difficult. Trying to
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: do it with a flawed yet a unique, yep, flawed
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: candidate seems like a very difficult thing to do. I
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: think one of the more underrated aspects of Maine and
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: why I think Susan Collins and might might not be
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: able to win no matter what is this interesting fact.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: So if you look at Kamala Harris's overall performance around
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: the country, she basically, you know, she slightly underperformed Biden
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: in the swing states, but really underperformed him in the
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: non swing states, right, that accounted for the popular vote loss,
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: and it counted, you know, just five and it was
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: single digit you know, margins and places like Illinois and
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: New Jersey. The point was is that in a lot
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: of places that weren't that that we're not really contested
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: that hard, she underperformed Biden across the board. And we
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: remember twenty twenty was huge, but believe it or not,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris got more raw vote in Maine than Joe
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: Biden did in twenty twenty. She got more about vote
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four than Biden in twenty twenty. And
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: it's kind of an outlier. And one of the reasons
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: was Maine got extra blue during COVID and a lot
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: of people moved there, and the people that moved there
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: the states appeared to make the state slightly bluer. It's
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: on the margins. It's a couple of points here, a
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: couple of points there. But when you notice that essentially
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris had the same performance as Biden and Maine
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: and the raw vote was the same. When we know
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: turnout was much was down from twenty twenty four overall
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: compared to twenty twenty. I think it tells you that
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: the floor for the Democrats all bit higher in Maine
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: than it was even in twenty twenty, the last time
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: Susan Collins was on the ballot. So it's why that
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: I still have Maine as a top five potential flip.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: Still think it's you know, I don't know. There is
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: a path for Democrats to win the Senate without Maine,
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: but it includes somehow flip in Montana and or Nebraska
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: and or Kansas. You got Alaska in there, right, like
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: you know. The path is just a little more difficult,
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: goes through areas that are slightly more rad It's why
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: the argument for generic D in Maine is much stronger
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: today than looking for a unique candidate that can somehow
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: break the Strangleholdlitsus and Tollins is held in that seat.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: It's possible the vote has changed already, and in fact,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: you might be risking this seat more with a as
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: Charlie Cook likes to call some of these candidates with
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: a more exotic candidate than if you just have a
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: cookie cutter generic D. Because the generic D vote is
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: slightly higher now in Main than it was just six
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: years ago thanks to sort of COVID immigration, if you will.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: So here's my top five list. Number one most likely
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: to flip North Carolina, Number two, Ohio a little bit
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: of a gap. Then I have Michigan, Iowa, Maine just
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: missing the cut, Texas, Kansas, Alaska, Montana, Mississippi, Minnesota. Look,
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: I think the second tier competitive section of the US
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: Senate races this cycle. It's becoming more interesting by the day.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: And I would promise you three or four of those
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: races I just rattled off, maybe it's a Montana, maybe
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: it's a Mississippi, maybe it's a Minnesota, are going to
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: be more competitive than we're thinking at the moment. I'm
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: just not sure which one of them is going to
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: be in the fall. But I promise you one of
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: those three or four that I've named on the second
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: tier is going to pop into the first tier at
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: some points. All frankly, it's what these cycles do. And
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: like I said, there's some there. This feels like a
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: very uncentraled elector at nationwide. So I think always betting
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: on more tumult is probably a pretty safe bet these days. Well,
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: the podcast Top five list is brought to you by
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  Speaker 1: this talk of primaries, who's going to control the Senate,
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: who's going to control the house, Well, guess what you
• 1:52:40
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• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: Slash predicts, slash bonus, hyphen offers, hyphen terms as Chuck.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: First question comes from PC in La and he goes, hey,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: maybe this is more about how Washington really works. Question,
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: but could the issue of elected officials investing be solved
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: by limiting them to broad America focused options like bonds
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: or index funds, The idea being they invest in the
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: country as a whole, not individual companies. Do something like that,
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: have any realistic path forward? PC in La, Hey, PC,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: my goodness, what a rational, good, normal good idea. I mean,
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: what you're describing is how Barack Obama voluntarily handled his
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: investments that he would stay in major index funds, essentially
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: just buying, you know, doing just that, buying US bonds,
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: buying treasuries. You know, if you decided to be a
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: public servant, you should profit off the country success, not
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: necessarily off of some company success, right, So, uh, that's
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: a very elegant suggestion, and that you know, you basically
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: you almost come up with an index fund that is
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: the you know, red white and Blue index fund, and
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: you bet in the red, white and Blue index fund,
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: and that's you know, that's what you invest in, and
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: that's your Honestly, it's yes, because we want to encourage
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: people to invest. So yeah, I don't see what's wrong
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: with this. Seems like a very elegant solution. I hope
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: folks are listening on this one. Nice work, PC. I
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: liked it. Next question comes from one of our I
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: think at this point Adam B from Davey Florida. Might
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: I think I think he's now going to become an
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: elected officer in the Astruk five Timers Club. So Adam
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: B and Davey Florida writes, he goes quick correction from
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: a loyal listener, Jerry Ryan seven of nine was on
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: Star Trek Voyager, not Deep Space nine. Okay, fair enough,
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe a chance to make up for it with a
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: futurist on the politics of post scarcity Star Trek World
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: Nuts best regards out to be my apologies forgetting Jerry
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: Ryan wrong the two thousand and four Senate race, Like
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: I said, one of my I think you know so,
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: one of the my favorite headlines to bring people in
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: on that ones. Let me tell you about a Senate
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: race where a candidate got into a scandal for wanting
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: to have sex with his own wife. It certainly is
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: a great way to start a story, right, It does
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: command the room and it gets people's attention. But I
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: absolutely thought Jerry Ryan was a deep space niner. My apologies,
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: and this is you know what this really exposes at him,
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: and I am war of I'm more of a Star
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: Wars guy than a Star Trek guy, but I'm not
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: anti Star Trek. I like me a good Star Trek.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: In fact, I'm curious, Adam, what you think of the
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: Seth McFarlane homage. I'm going to call it an homage
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: to Star Trek the Orville with what he did. But like,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: it was a show that was better executed than it
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: got credit for because everybody thought that it was going
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: to be a comedy. It wasn't necessarily meant to be
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: a comedy. That it was more about Seth doing his
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: homage to Star Trek. But everybody was disappointed that it
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: wasn't a comedy and therefore it didn't get the traction
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: I think it deserved. I'd love your response on that, Adam.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: Next question comes from Dan and he says, Hey, I've
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: heard you say progressives haven't lost enough to rethink their approach.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: If candidate's like Platinum or else I had losing the general,
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: do you think that would prompt a shift or will
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: the movement stay the course? Thanks for keeping me informed
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: and entertained. PS if this gets read on air, I'm
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: officially in the five maybe six timers club. Dan, congratulations.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: I'd like to know where where if we geographically expanded
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: the five Timers Club. Right, We've got Davy Florida represented.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: We know that, I know I got Arkansas represented in here? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where?
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: Can we find you Dan, so that we can properly
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: put the little pin on the map on that. I
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: think that you know that's what you know. It's it's
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: going to be really interesting, you know, mom. Donnie is
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: is using his political capital not to convince more New
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: Yorkers that his way is going to work, but he's
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: trying to remake the Democratic Party in New York City
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: into his image. Right, he is essentially the pied piper
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: of all the primary challenge from the last that are
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: taking place to sitting members of Congress in the New
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: York City delegation. He's going after fellow Democrats, basically trying
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: to get them replaced with Democratic socialists. He clearly sees
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: himself as a leader of a movement. And I also
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: understand why progressive say, hey, give us the wheel. We
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: haven't had the wheel. We have come close to having
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: the wheel, but we haven't had the wheel. Even when
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: we've won. We've always you know, And I'm just if
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: I were sitting in the shoes of a progressive, this
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: is what I think I would believe, which is, we've
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: helped Democrats get power, We've helped shape the messaging, we've
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: helped shape some things, but we've we've not been in charge.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: We've always deferred to the whatever is referred to as
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: the pragmatic wing of the party, mainstream wing, whatever you
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: want to call it. And in the same way, you
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: had a core group on the right that felt as if,
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: you know, we compromise all the time, we get you
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: the volunteers you asked for, and then we defer to
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: the more moderate leaders of the party and they get
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: to be in charge, they get the call of shots
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: with McCain, Romney right, Paul Right, et cetera. And they
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: were like, they wanted their presidency and they're they're you know,
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: they're getting they're getting their chance at the wheel. And
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of progressives see that, Hey, their
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: their base, their base got actually got a hold of
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: the party and got a hold of the leadership right,
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: and they had never gotten that before. And I think
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: the progressives are a bit jealous that of Mega that
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: they were able to essentially push out their establishment. Progressives haven't.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: They've had to, They've they've basically been right. The establishment
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: is is is a bit stronger inside the Democratic Party,
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: and I think it's because there's a little more ideological
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: diversity in the Democratic Party. Right. The progressive base is
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: now as big as the conservative base that Trump has
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: in the Republican Party. And I think that is why
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: there is a distinction here and why. But that's what
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: I mean by it. I think progressives believe and I've
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: in fairness to them, I think they're right that they
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: have not. You know, Nancy Pelosi was not a progressive
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi was a liberal, but she was a mainstream
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: pro business liberal. That is not you know. I think
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: certainly she was empathetic to the progressive movement more so
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: than maybe a lot of other mainstream liberal Democrats, but
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: she was not a progressive. Did it with Chuck Schumer
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: right dinner with Harry Reid. They wanted to accommodate the progressives.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: They wanted to find a place at the table for
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: the progressive They were hoping that that would be enough, right,
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: And I think now the progressives say, hey, your leadership
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: of the party has not worked, so once you let
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: us lead and see what happens. Now the pragmantism that
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: are I think the progressors are going to take them
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: down the wrong path and we're going to find out. Right.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: But I that's what I mean by that, By the way,
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: they could be in charge and turn out to they
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: are right, and the public says, yeah, I didn't know
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: I wanted this, and this is what I want, right.
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: That's the that's the that's the That's what makes this
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: country great, or what can make this country great is
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: that is that you can get that opportunity, and we're
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: one of the in you know, New York City is
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: going to be an interesting experiment, So I you know,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: I do think that if you know, and this has
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: been I was having this debate with somebody the other day.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: Progressives don't believe they've gotten a presidency. Well, there's a
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: lot of people that are not progressives in the Democratic
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: Party that say, okay, Elizabeth Warren didn't win the presidency,
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: but she certainly staffed the Biden White House, and she's
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: in the first two years of a Biden presidency. Was
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: the Warren agenda not necessarily what Biden ran on, so
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: and that turned out not to be popular. But I
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: just you know, that is where progressors are like whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: You know, they want to pull back. They're not They
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: want to take credit for some of the stuff in
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: Biden world that is popular, but they don't want too
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: much attachment and acceptance of how much influence they actually
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: had on the Biden presidents. They had enormous influence. Again,
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: this was probably the most progressive friendly Democratic president since FDR,
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: and it is certainly in my lifetime. Next question comes
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: from Mark h of Allen, Texas says, hey, Chuck was
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: thinking about the Belichick coaching tree and how it's littered
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: with promising assistants failing as head coaches. It seems as
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: if all his assistants who move on to a head
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: coaching role try too hard to be him and it
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: never really works because they're just aren't him. As we
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: ponder a post Trump nation, do you think his disciples
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: are going to over rotate on being Trump and end
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: up being even more of a disaster. I love Mark you.
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: You do a good job of humoring me here, Love
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: the metaphor you built there, Love what you're how you're
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: thinking about this. I think you're one hundred percent right
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: about the Belichick coaching tree, and I think I think
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: we've seen you're probably going to be right about Trump.
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: And in fact, it feels as if anybody that tries
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: to emulate Trump too much doesn't do very well. Right
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: that there's only one Trump, And you know, yes, there
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: are some people that think it's a way for them
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: to blow past some of the worst parts of their resume,
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: hoping that can just sort of trumpify their resume a
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: little bit, meaning sort of take something that should be
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: a demerit and try to turn it into character strength
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: of some sort, Right, so I totally see where you're going.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: And I just I do believe that that a Trump
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: imitator is going to get roundly rejected. In fact, I
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: think that's part of Ramaswami's problem in Ohio. I think
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: he's too I think voters sees something that like, no, no, no,
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: we don't want a Trumps. We got one Trump's enough.
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: We don't want one ours our governor too, right. It's
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: one of those things. And so that's my at least
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: thesis on why Ramaswami's struggling, that there's this group of
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: voters who literally are like, yeah, I want Trump to
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: shake things up. I just want one Trump. I don't
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: want these acolytes doing it. You know, I think the
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: states run just fine. Let's not overthink it here, right,
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: So that that's so I'm you know, it's it's why Frankly,
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: it makes sense to me that Vance or Rubio might
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: actually be smart potential errors to Trump because they don't
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: share his personality. I think anybody trying to emulate Trump
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: personality and trying to behave like him is going to
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: get roundly rejected. You know, I don't think we want
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: and in fact, before the Trump era we usually we
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: usually and I think we frankly, I could argue that
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: even in the Trump ara, we've done this. We usually
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: elect a new president who has attributes the previous president
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: didn't have. And even in the Trump era, you could
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: you could make this argument, right, you know, if if
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama were too nuanced, you know, Donald Trump, that's
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: no nuance, right, If Barack Obama were all gray area,
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: Trump is all bright colors, right in that sense, Trump
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: was shaken up, Biden was settled down, right, Trump in
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: this case was the change in twenty four and Kamala
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: was more of the same. So and I think we decided, well,
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: we didn't want too quiet. Biden was too quiet of
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: a president to not a part of the presidency, right.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: So I do think we're going to be looking for
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: somebody with different attributes from Trump. And I think if
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: you try to present yourself as a continuation of the
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: same character as Trump, I think that's going to get rejected.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: All right, Next question, first time questioning here. Big fan
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: of the podcast and analysis. I've seen concerns about CBS
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: shifting right under new leadership, with their coverage still feels
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: pretty in line with mainstream media. To me, what am
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: I missing? Do you see a real shift or is
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: this more the reality? Thanks Jessica for Austin. You know,
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: I think it is. What it is is it's targeted perception. Right.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: It goes back to something I was the point I
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: was trying to make with the Monday episode and my
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: commentary about the CBS situation, which was, you know, notice
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 1: you know this is this is about a shiny object
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: that Donald Trump pays attention to, and his administration's in
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: charge with whether this merger gets approved, and he's got
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: one thing he cares about sixty minutes. So they've got
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: to symbolically look like they're doing all sorts of stuff
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: to sixty minutes and the and other than sixty minutes.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: The only other place that is seen as sort of
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 1: the voice or the central nervous system of a news
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: organization and television is the evening newscast. And so they
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: made a big dramatic but they haven't touched other stuff.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: And I'm hesitant to note the stuff they haven't touched
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: for fear that I'm putting a target on some of
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: the places. But I think it's notable of a couple
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: of other important franchises at CBS News that have been
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: untouched and have gone on doing what they do well
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: and get I think some of you probably know exactly
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: the couple of shows I'm talking about in particular, and
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: there really hasn't been you know, so they do you know,
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 1: they do little symbolic things, So you're right, I would
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: say ninety percent isn't any different, But it's little ten
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: percent things that they try to do right. So they'll
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: do things that they know in some ways that'll troll
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: the left so that it gets the right to notice
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: that they made the left unhappy about something, you know,
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: maybe by saying a nice word about Marco Rubio, right
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: like Tony de Coulpaldate or something. This is a you know,
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: looking like they're doing massive shakeups at sixty minutes, and
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: in getting involved in there is just enough to appease
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: Brendan Carr because they're kind of simpletons here, Car and Trump.
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: They're they're not serious about what they're doing, but they
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: want to create the perception and strike fear in other
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: news organizations. And that's why the targeting of sixty minutes
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 1: is such a symbolic target. So on one hand, there
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: hasn't been massive change, You're right overall. On the other hand,
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: it's targeted perception in order to get what they want.
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: And that's why I get frustrated a bit with a
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: little bit of all the reporting about this and sometimes
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: a little bit of the pear clutching. I do think
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: that we should be concerned any time a corporate entity
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: is inserting itself into a news organization, it's a problem,
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: whether it's on stage left or stage right right. Fox
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: is not a legitimate news organization because it's corporate parent
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: inserts itself and won't allow for certain points of view
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: to ever be aired in certain parts of it because
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: they've got a point of view and they want to
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: and they're sort of getting involved. And you see this
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: frankly all around now. And this has been my large
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: I think the larger issue is it can't trust a
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: corporate parent of a news organization if that corporate parent
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: has other business before government. We have now been proven
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: that this set of corporate parents are not going to
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: prioritize the First Amendment over their own business bottom line.
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: That's the concern that should be the outrage. This is
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: not about ideology. This is about corporations making editorial decisions
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: based on the bottom line, not on any other judgment.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: By the way, every news story leans one way or
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: the other as far as some people are concerned. So
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: it's not about that. What should outrage you is corporate
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: involvement because they are looking for an out specific outcome,
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: and that should be what's and that's what I think
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: has been lost in some of this commentary. This is
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: why this is not about Scott Pelly. And if you're
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: making this about Scott Pelley, you actually not covering the story.
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: You're missing. You are absolutely missing the force of the
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: trees on this one. And that's what I was trying
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: to sort of focus on. This is not about Scott Pelly.
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: This is about a corporation deciding to use its news
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: division as a vehicle to curry favor in order to
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: get government regulatory approval of a questionable merger that plenty
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: of critics believe, you know, might be against the greater good,
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: the greater public interest. All right, this is not about
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: media bias. This is this is something different. This is
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: about using a news division in the world in the
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: most nefarious way in order to improve your own bottom
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 1: line and That's what makes this so distressing that those
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: of us that do care about these brands, and this
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 1: is sort of like where I think it's a it's
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: a tough call. If you work at sixty minutes right now,
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 1: you see what's happening, you know what's happening. I think
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: I would hunker down and just hope for new owners
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 1: in two years as soon as because the Ellisons are
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 1: there as soon as they really aren't it. I don't
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: believe they're in they're super left or super right. I
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: just think they see this. They're just being opportunistic here
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: and they do what business plenty of business people do.
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: They see an opportunity and they seize it. The question
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: is going to be who owns the sixty minutes Brandon
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: three years and it will it be recoverable by that?
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: And to me, that's the calculation if you work at
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: sixty minutes you have to make at the moment. All right,
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna wrap up questions there before I go, I
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: want to make a quick little comment about the Brendan
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: Soresby situation. This is the quarterback that gambled on his
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: own team when he was at Indiana. He since attempted
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: to transfer to Texas Tech. He was going to be
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: he had been ruled ineligible to play college football, and
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: he got reinstated by a judge from you know that
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: had ties to Lubbock, Texas. So it looked like what
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: we've seen in Cuba. Issues are ruling university susan a
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: local judiciary in a local jurisdiction, and the local judge
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: sides with the local university and lo and behold, Trinidad.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: Chambliss gets to play another year at Ole Miss thanks
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 1: to a Mississippi judge, and now Brendan Soresby apparently will
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: get to play in Texas Tech. But what's interesting about
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: the Sowersby situation is how this isn't sitting right with
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: anybody in college football, the NC DOUBLEA and so I
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: don't understand how this. I understand if a judge ruled
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: that they should be eligible to go to class, they
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: should be eligible. They can, you know, if Texas Tech
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: decides they can play in regular seat and games. But
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 1: to me, you know, where's the College Football Playoff? Is
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: its own entity? They ought to just not allow. You know,
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: it used to be there. You sometimes would get suspended,
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: you would be ineligible for postseason play. You could play
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: in the regular season, you could play in your conference,
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: but you couldn't you couldn't participate in a bowl game,
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: or you couldn't participate in any postseason if your sport
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: had a postseason, like a tournament or something like that.
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: How is that not the punishment for soresby? Right, he
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: broke one of the Cardinals sins. Right, he bet on
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: his own team, he admitted, he bet on his own team.
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: If they can't draw a line on this, what the
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: hell are they ever going to draw a line on?
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 1: So I empathize with what the Big Tennis saying, Hey,
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: they're not going to play Texas Tech in any other
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: sports if they decide this is how they're going to
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: conduct their athletic department. Hey, that's the market speaking. I
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: do think Texas Tech got to cut ties here. I
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: don't think they realize how this is one of those
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 1: things that can be damaging in the long term. Right
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: when this sticks to you that there are no morals
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: or ethics at all, Come on, guys, and you know
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: the Big Twelve I have long's thought has some terrific
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: leadership with Brett Yormack. They need to step in here.
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: This is bad, bad for everybody. Puts the Big Twelve
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: in a bad position, puts Texas Tech in a bad position.
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 1: It sort of taints all of the good Texas Tech
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: has been trying to do for the Big Twelve in
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: for college football, and I don't want to see it.
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: And I think Texas Tech is making a huge, huge
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: branding and marketing and perception. Look, I think they're making
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: a huge mistake just on teaching kids a lesson here.
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: This needs to be seen as kind of an NCAA
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: death penalty, and it should be individual, but it should
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: be a postseason deafth penal on this one at least
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: one year. And you know, we're we're. Look, we've got
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: all sorts of problems. I think you heard me the
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: other day. I think the SEC and the Big Ten
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 1: have no interest in growing college football. They only have
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 1: interest in putting a velvet rope around it. It's why
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 1: I'm you know, I uh what Cody Campbell I think
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 1: it is his name, has been doing at Texas Tech
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: as a booster and trying to trying to essentially break
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: the duopoly that is the Big Ten or and the SEC.
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 1: I think has been good for college football. And if
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: you care about college sports, you don't want what the
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: SEC and the Big Ten are doing here just anti competition.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: It is anti it's just it's not but it's bad
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: for college football, makes it less interesting, it keeps fewer.
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: And I say this is you know, I've got a
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: I root for a team that will will absolutely not
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 1: let the SEC and the Big Ten keep them out,
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: all right, and you know they'll play by whatever's ridiculous
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 1: rules these two conferences arrogantly set. But this is why
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: my friends at the Big twelve and a Texas Tech
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: need to do the right thing here in Soresby. This
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: is this is a terrible this is a terrible outcome.
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 1: And it's fact that what's interesting is how unified though
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: college sports world seems to be about this. Nobody can
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: defend this decision. It's a terrible decision. It's a terrible look.
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: So I hope the Big twelve steps in here. They
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: need to step in here and protect Texas Tech from itself.
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: I get they're trying to win at all costs. I
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: understand it, especially when they're living in a state where
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: you're dealing with a big brother in Texas that gets
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 1: to do whatever the hell it wants, and it's part
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: of a conference that does not care about the future
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: of college football outside of the SEC, which is a shame.
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 1: I think the SEC is a terrific product. It would
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 1: be a better product with better competition, but they don't
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 1: want the competition. But don't give all. By behaving this way,
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: Texas Tech and Big twelve, you're just handing more potential
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: power to the SEC in the Big ten. And that's
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: the last thing the sport means, all right, And with
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: that I've said my piece on that. I'll see you
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: guys in twenty four hours with the Thursday episode. Thanks
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: for tuning in.