Latest / Breaking The Meta / Vertical Actress Claudia Hawkins on Plus-Size Roles & Cruel Scripts

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Vertical Actress Claudia Hawkins on Plus-Size Roles & Cruel Scripts · Breaking The Meta

• Mike Winson: Hello everyone and welcome to Breaking the Meta. My name is Mike Wins and today we are sitting down with a friend of the channel. Her name is Claudia Hawkins. She has been in episodes such as or shows such as The Hockey Captain That Hates Me and The Genius and the Bad Boy. Hello, Claudia, how are you doing today? Claudia Hawkins: I am so so so good. How are you? Mike Winson: I'm doing great. I'm really excited to sit down and talk with you. I really enjoyed watching your interview with the vertical queens and I was like, gotta get her on here. Claudia Hawkins: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here, seriously. Mike Winson: Well, awesome. I love it. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: okay, so One of the things that I love to do at the start is just hear how you got to the point of verticals. Cause I don't know if So I'm new to the vertical world. I watched my first vertical like maybe a month and a half ago. Claudia Hawkins: really? Mike Winson: Yeah. So I was I did an I was doing an interview with someone who happened to also do verticals, but it was kind of it was about that, but it was about something else. But In prep for it, I watched verticals, which then Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: got me into them, which then got me into the world. So I love hearing the stories about how you all got into doing verticals because verticals can be very interesting. And so I'm very interested. So you are in Georgia. Did you grow up in Georgia? Claudia Hawkins: Yes, I was born and raised here. So I've been here my whole life. Mhm. Mike Winson: Born and raised in Georgia. had you like when did acting start for you? Claudia Hawkins: Literally I did like I did theater in high school and I absolutely loved it. I was that kid who was always trying different things like soccer. I did soccer growing up, archery, color guard, so many different things, just trying to figure out like, okay, Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: what am what can I be good at? What can I be good at? And and it wasn't until I did theater my sophomore year of high school that I was like, I kinda like this whole acting thing. And so I did that. Was gonna do it in college, did not go that route, decided Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Claudia Hawkins: to do something completely different, and really didn't get into acting professionally until about June of last year. Mike Winson: wow. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah, and that was I just I got an actor's access account and my friend at work, who I was working with at the time told me to just get some headshots done. I had a my friend's mom take my headshots and I just started submitting for everything I could and the first real audition I got was actually for the genius and the bad boy. Yeah, Mike Winson: wow. Claudia Hawkins: so vertical was the first my first project ever that I ever done. Mike Winson: Had you heard of verticals at all before this point? Claudia Hawkins: I didn't know that they were called verticals. I didn't know that that's Mike Winson: Okay. Claudia Hawkins: what we were referring to them as. I'd seen them on TikTok, obviously. I got suckered into a TikTok ad or two Mike Winson: Right. Claudia Hawkins: at a time because they are really you get into it, but I Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: didn't realize that that was what it was called until I was in my chemistry read and talking to Mike Winson: Okay. Claudia Hawkins: the casting director for it. And she was like, Yeah, have you done a vertical before? I like, I didn't realize that that's what this is. So, yeah. It was just accidental completely on my part. Mike Winson: So what was it like reading the script of the first vertical you were in? Cause you obviously did at least have a general idea of what verticals were because you'd seen them on TikTok, but like Claudia Hawkins: Yes. Mike Winson: it I I would assume it's a little different when you're actually like reading it to actually do it. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah, and I had been told, like I said, by the casting director and even by the director, Jamie who had called me beforehand, that it was gonna be more like, it's like, soap operay. That's how we always describe them. Soap opera but for your phone. And so that's how I described it to my friends and family. I was like, yeah, I I think it should be fine, just it's like theater, just playing it up a little bit more. And then I got the script and it was not what I was expecting. And especially because on the what's it called? On the plus size factor, because I knew I was playing a plus size character and I knew there was gonna Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Claudia Hawkins: be some bullying involved and then I read the script and I was like, my gosh, this poor girl is like she's Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: really going for I think it's because the script is the biggest part, right? It's not even really the Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: content, it's what people are saying that to me was like, Wow, this is this is what we're gonna be doing and I don't know how I'm gonna Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: get through a scene without laughing and da da da da da da but as after you do that one and then you do another one and then you do another one, you get into that, okay, this is what I'm expecting. I think even with the one that I just filmed, a lot of the times we were taking a break, we're like, wow, this is a lot tamer than what we're usually used to. We thought somebody would say something crazy here and they didn't so I don't Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: know. It was it was shocking for sure. Mike Winson: Yeah. Was was it hard for you to cause I mean I've interacted with a few other people that have said that the the the bullying or the violence or the things like that were were difficult actually mentally to handle. Was that something that you had to deal with when you were filming? Claudia Hawkins: Yeah, I had especially with that first one, 'cause it was filmed in Georgia, so the first two that I did were filmed in Atlanta. And one of the characters in the show, was actually my neighbor. Like she lives right down the street from me now currently, and Mike Winson: wow. Claudia Hawkins: she used to be one of my teachers in school. Like she's one of my substitute teachers. So like we knew each other and then having to come in, like up until that point, I think it was halfway through the shoot, I like, you know, this is this is fake. I can really separate myself, this is just a job, we're acting, we're playing dress up for our jobs, it's great. But when you have that person from your real life step in, to me for Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: a second, that veil broke for me. And Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: I did have like a I had a pretty big meltdown on set that day. Like, Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: not in front of everybody. I was like, I just need 30 minutes, just give me a second. I broke down, I talked to The producer Sandra, who was very, very lovely, loved her. we went through that thing again of like, I don't know why I'm getting so upset over this. I know this isn't real. I know this isn't me they're saying these things to, but when you, I said, see that person that and you see Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: daily, I saw her the other day out in her yard and I waved at her. Mike Winson: Ha ha. Claudia Hawkins: Like, that's when it it breaks for a little bit. But after that though, since then, I I've been completely fine with it. I know different people have different experiences obviously, but with me just keeping on that mindset of this isn't real, like this is fake. Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: so when you started, obviously, you've you've done a couple verticals now. You've done you did the couple in Georgia, you've gone and done some in in in LA now. obviously with was it with AI that that With with AI coming in, is that why verticals pulled out of Georgia? I feel like we're not hearing about verticals happening in Georgia or New York, all the places they were happening beforehand. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things was it was Drama Box, right? Was a huge East Coast company. They I think their headquarters Mike Winson: Hm. Claudia Hawkins: was in New York and so they had all of the casting call because I'm not represented, so I self submit for everything. All of the casting calls I saw majority on the East Coast were for Drama Box. But since Mike Winson: Gotcha. Claudia Hawkins: they've gone fully AI now they're just completely gone. And on the other end of it, something that I think of too is with major companies trying to combat that, they're trying to cast a lot of well known actors and people who are like, you know, like heavy hitters like I don't know, like Meg Bush and Cameron Porrez and things like that, because they know people are gonna click on those and they're gonna watch them. Well, all of those people are based in LA and they're on Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: the West Coast. So it's financially it just makes more sense to film everything out there. Right? So I think that's the biggest reason that they have pulled out. I'm hoping that we can turn it around. I've heard some whisperings that maybe we'll be starting to come back to the east coast. At least in Atlanta a little bit. Yeah. Mike Winson: Yeah, I feel like I've heard about I've heard about DramaBox doing some hybrid something or other, whatever that means. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah, but I also don't know if anybody wants to go back to Drama Box and even work for them after they just d did that, 'cause that's Mike Winson: Yeah. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: a huge slap in the face to people who have been nothing but loyal to you. Yeah, I don't know. But Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Claudia Hawkins: they're trying to dig themselves out of that hole they put themselves in right now. Mike Winson: So is is the I is something like moving to LA a possibility for you since most of the jobs are over there? Or are you are you gonna just keep doing th your thing in Atlanta and you know, if you get a chance to go back over there or something comes over on the east coast that you that you'll jump at it kind of a thing? Claudia Hawkins: Yeah, the goal originally was to be able to stay in Atlanta, but with I mean the industry is always shifting and it's always changing and who knows if a year from now, like, this is even gonna be like everything might be coming back to Atlanta, you know? Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: But after staying in LA for the past month, it's sort of not stuck on me, but California has grown on me a little bit. I think logistically just for my career, it makes the most sense to move out there. I'm holding out for the rest of the year just to see what happens. But I might have to move out. I really, I really don't Mike Winson: No. Claudia Hawkins: I love the East Coast. I love the East Coast so much. Mike Winson: East Coast, Best Coast. Claudia Hawkins: It lit no, actually it is. So yeah, I fear I might have to, but I don't again, I'm Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Claudia Hawkins: changing. We'll see. We'll see what where the industry is in a year. But you never know. Mike Winson: Yeah. Yeah. So obviously you've you've had you've only gotten a few verticals into your career. What if you could snap your fingers and have the your your your most desired story, your most desired vertical trope. What what would what would be the one you would want to do overall? Claudia Hawkins: I'm trying to get them or I might have to r I've been told I might have to write it myself. I wanna do a treasure hunting, national treasure Mike Winson: Ooh. Claudia Hawkins: style adventure. I feel like we have a lot of lacking of adventure-esque type Mike Winson: Yep. Claudia Hawkins: verticals. And I'm not saying it doesn't have to be throw a love story in there or whatever, but I don't think it should be the main point. I want Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: an actual adventure type style. Well and like things with like outer banks, treasure hunting, that is very popular. Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Spe speaking of outer banks, mm-hmm. Claudia Hawkins: So I'm I'm really trying to push for that, but that would be I know nice hat, nice hat. I definitely peeked it, so I had to throw it in there. But yeah, I I think we need more adventure verticals out there. Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: A lot more adventure verticals. I think that would be Mike Winson: yeah. Claudia Hawkins: super fun. And please hire me. Let me be the lead in one of those. Are you kidding? I'm right Mike Winson: It's Claudia Hawkins: here. Mike Winson: it's been fun trying to talk. It's been fun talking to the different to the different actors about and and like action adventure has been probably the most constant statement by all of them of of what they want to see more of. but I guess it's hard. I mean, in general. Women are the largest viewers of verticals and Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: they like dramas. They they're not as big into the adventure, but I mean I I like verticals and I would love some action ones, so we just gotta get the word out more. Claudia Hawkins: Well, and I also think with how many that have been written, produced, and thrown out there, I fear we're coming to the end of how many times can we do this storyline over and over and over again. Mike Winson: That is true. Claudia Hawkins: Even even if you have new faces and you have new actors because actors can take characters and play them a completely different way, but we're starting even some of those target demographic older women are starting to be like, Hey, like Maybe we need to do something new. Maybe something needs to come in. Maybe we need to do this. Mike Winson: How many different ways can you marry a billionaire CEO? Claudia Hawkins: No for real or get a scholarship to a school and the head popular guy hates you but then you fall in love with him by the end of it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Mike Winson: And then falls in love with you and then yeah. Yeah. so as someone who is new to the vertical world, what what was something that surprised you about verticals? like when when you got there and you were just like, I didn't think it was gonna be like this or you know, whatever. Claudia Hawkins: I think ha and this might be the go-to answer is how fast paced everything is. Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Claudia Hawkins: Especially with filming. again, these were things that I was told beforehand, it's there's gonna be some pretty long days, it's gonna be pretty hefty. I hope you're in for it. And I'm like, yeah, I can I can I did theater, I can Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: do anything. There was like I think yeah, one of the ones one of our days for this past vertical shoot that I did, we went through thirty-six pages. In a day. Mike Winson: Whoa. Claudia Hawkins: It was thirty-two or thirty-six, which was Mike Winson: That's crazy. Claudia Hawkins: unheard of, and it was a very, very long day. But it is so much like once you're in a scene and and it's one of those like crunch days where they tell you like, hey, just letting you guys know it's breakfast time, we're doing our safety meeting, but we are gonna have to keep it rolling, you would literally be, okay, cut, great, you're good, you're out of the scene, go get changed in costume and get mic'd up for the next scene, or go do this or do that. And on the opposite end of that, which has surprised me now, there's also some days where you're the only one on set who's not doing anything. Somebody Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: else could be ha doing okay, we're going through they're going through like 15, 20 pages and you're there for one scene, but you're there just in case on standby that they need you or they need to add you to something. That I think is the most surprising thing to me recently is how slow it can be. But typically, Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: yeah, the It was a lot at first. But I don't know, I I like the adrenaline of having to do so many pages in a day, Mike Winson: Yeah. Y y you're not the only one that said that. It's kind of it's kind of interesting how how different it is between like how many pages you go through. Like in a movie it's like you might get through one page a day. And and Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. 'Cause the way they set it up and the filming and whatever, but here they're like, Nope, we'll just do a two shot. That's gonna get us through the scene. You got two takes, let's get through it. I'm like okay. Mike Winson: Huh? Claudia Hawkins: Let's see if I can do this the best that I can for these two takes. All right. Mike Winson: Yeah. okay, so you You obviously in you tried a lot of things, you decided to go into acting. What's what's something else like if you if you went, you know what? I don't I don't really want to be an actor anymore. not not like not the job you would just end up going into because it's the one that you might be able to get, but if like if there was something else that you're like, I would love to do this. as a job, what what what would that be? Claudia Hawkins: I really, really, really my second dream in life if it first being an actor, second would be executive director of a museum. I love Mike Winson: Ooh. Interesting. Claudia Hawkins: museums. I studied them in college, I got my degree in history, I was in grad school at the beginning of the year for like a month, or I say a month, it was two weeks. It was two weeks, but it was Mike Winson: Ha ha. Claudia Hawkins: for my master it was for my master's in museum studies. 'cause that's what I thought I was gonna do. I thought I was not gonna pursue acting and then things Mike Winson: That's crazy. Claudia Hawkins: changed. But yeah, museums for sure. I love history. I love history so much. Mike Winson: What what what is your favorite part of history? if you could focus on one area, what would it be? Claudia Hawkins: like just post World War Two or World War Two and the Cold War period. And that's both US and just world history on that. So twentieth century world history really has been my like that's been my thing. That's what I studied Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: in college and to me just the most i most interesting things happened. Mike Winson: I'm a very world war two person, so Claudia Hawkins: yeah, no, I'm that's I think I I wrote my thesis. I did a comparative analysis on Dr. Werner von Braun and Oppenheimer and how the US treats high profile figures based off what they can s like what they can give to the government during the height of the Cold War. So it was Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mike Winson: So light reading is what you're is what you're telling me. Claudia Hawkins: yeah. I think I posted on my Snapchat story because of course While I was writing that thesis, I had to go through the Oppenheimer tapes and that entire trial. Mike Winson: my gosh. Claudia Hawkins: And I was like, men just love to hear themselves talk. That's what I gathered from that. They just love to yap, yap, yap, Mike Winson: Yeah. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: yap, yap about anything. Mike Winson: They really do. They st they still do. That hasn't changed, unfortunately. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. But that specifically, like I still sometimes will be like, I'm not even kidding, will have a nightmare and be like, my gosh, I'm listening to the tapes again or I'm going through these transcripts. They're still saved and bookmarked on my laptop. Like they'll pop up and I'll be like, don't remind me of that. Please, please. Yeah. It was Mike Winson: No. That's that's that's hilarious. so the verticals that you did were were kind of focused on the on the Excel space. How Obviously that's not an extremely well represented in the vertical space. What kind of a reaction did you were you getting from from people from vertical the vertical community when those came out? Claudia Hawkins: Actually I it was really well received. Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: It like I never once to this day and you know things can change knock on one I have not received or read anything negative about me or about my characters. Yes, I Mike Winson: T that's awesome. That's awesome. Claudia Hawkins: think especially with the fact that like you mentioned they're not very well represented. I think before that the biggest trope was a plus size character had to take some sort of magic potion and then magically become skinny and that's how Yes, Mike Winson: Or or just did the workout or whatever, but yeah. Claudia Hawkins: and was there. The this do I think that the scripts in the sense of how much they bullied those characters could have been toned down a lot? One thousand percent. And I think a lot of people, that was the biggest thing that they came out to was not only Mike Winson: Hm. Claudia Hawkins: that, but also I'm not considered plus size actually. I at the time, Mike Winson: Really? Claudia Hawkins: yeah, I wasn't technically by whatever's definition stated on the internet, I'm not plus size. And I've actually recently lost a lot more weight. So that was one of my biggest concerns for this upcoming vertical that I did. I was like, my gosh, they're gonna They're gonna fire me because I'm too skinny now. But that was another thing that people said was she's love her, she's gorgeous, but she's not plus size. Like, can Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: we maybe get some more representation maybe in bigger girls and roles like that? Or and things that I sort of talked about and the Vertical Queens podcast is do have a plus size girl as the main character, but don't make the storyline all about her being fat. Mike Winson: Yeah, yeah. Claudia Hawkins: That would to me is more representation than doing a whole storyline like, no, but it's it's about her being plus size and it's about her overcoming that bullying and getting confident in herself and things like that. I'm like, yes, but you can do the exact same thing, get more representation out there if you put her in Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: a normal role. Cause she's still gonna be bullied, but this time maybe it's for being poor or for having ugly clothes, not for her body, which is a huge Mike Winson: Right. Claudia Hawkins: like that's a very thin line that you're gonna cross there when you do that and when you Mike Winson: Yes. Claudia Hawkins: write about somebody like that. Yeah. So that that's my goal for or my hopes for the future of plus size women, especially individuals or even plus size men. We don't r I don't think I've ever seen any plus size male leads in a vertical ever. But having Mike Winson: No. Claudia Hawkins: that more re both plus size or people of color, just being in a normal as normal as vertical can be. Mike Winson: Can ever be. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: But a normal co yeah. A a normal vertical story, just more representation. And I think Mike Winson: Yeah. No, I agree. Claudia Hawkins: yeah. Mike Winson: I've I've actually said that the my dream would be a a vertical with a strong, confident woman, whatever whatever kind of woman, and a plain Claudia Hawkins: Mm-hmm. Mike Winson: old guy who is not does not look like they're in the gym, you know, five hundred hours a day kind of a Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: thing. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: I I don't know, I think people love to watch movies and watch verticals to escape, you know, what they experience in their real life and I understand that and I think that was always the biggest conversation that I had when I brought up the fact of hey, maybe we could do go this route. But also I think people would appreciate the vertical space more if they took strides by casting other types of people. Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: I think a lot of people would appreciate that and I think they would get more viewers, not just the target demographic, you know. I think a lot more other people, normal pe not normal people, because everyone's definition of normal is different, but like people who are not actively watching verticals now. I think if they came in and saw, Hey, this isn't like what I usually typically see on my TikTok ads that are always there, you know? Mike Winson: Or just have it not be a like a like a soap opera. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Winson: That would help that would help drastically. Claudia Hawkins: And that's what I think I liked the most about what the project that I just worked on is Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: we were given a lot more freedom to sort of act the way that we want to act. And there were certain Mike Winson: nice. That's awesome. Claudia Hawkins: scenes, yeah, there was one scene that I'm really, really proud of, and I my scene partner was also really, really proud of. And we can't wait for it to come out, but it was a very vulnerable scene, and instead of it being like, Okay, you need to start Busting out crying and getting super emotional, doing this as you should. It was like, I was like, hey, let's just try it this way. And Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: we did, and it was super natural, it was super real, it was vulnerable, Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: it was nice, and we were really proud of what we did. And I think even one of our producers who was watching, when I talked to her afterwards, she's Yeah, she's like, makeup had to give me a tissue, I'm not even kidding. We started crying. Like it was such a beautifully Mike Winson: Heck yeah. Claudia Hawkins: done scene. I was like, ugh. That makes me feel so good. And I hope everybody Mike Winson: And Claudia Hawkins: agrees. Mike Winson: that's exactly and that's exactly what you need. What you need is people such as yourself and and the other ones that are that That have that ability to bring the emotion out in a in a different way that can bring those feelings in that don't almost have to force it because that's that's what I feel like the other ones do. It's they almost beat they they beat a dead horse when it comes to some Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: of those tropes to try and get people to care about it. And it's like, how many times does the does the the villain have to slap the person, the main character for like us to finally instead of caring, just be like, dude, enough. I I really I'm really done after the fiftieth Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: time. Claudia Hawkins: That and then also one of the biggest things for me is it's always like you need to be crying in the scene. So if you can't cry, we'll bring in fake tears or we'll do this or we'll do that. And me personally, I hate crying in front of people. Like that is my worst nightmare. Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Claudia Hawkins: I hate breaking down, I hate crying. And so for this one, I was like personally, I don't think my character would do that. I think this is one of those characters that to me was written like I feel she's almost as close to me as a person as possible. we're very my character and me were the same. And so I told I got to talk to the director and I was like, hey, really, honestly, I think for these emotional scenes, yes, I can get there, but I feel like when she's opening up or she's saying something for the first time, revealing something, she doesn't need to be sobbing. Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: She can be, you know, sort of looking down, not necessarily making eye contact, fidgeting a little bit, that making that nervous though, but she doesn't need to be sobbing, crying, yelling, hitting, Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: as most emotional breakdown scenes or revealing scenes are in verticals. And the production team was very much like, yeah, you know what, we let's just every take I think we did was let's see how you guys do it. Let's just see how you guys do it and we will we'll bring in notes afterwards. Mike Winson: That's so that's cool that you had that that ability with the director and the producers and stuff to to really come and do that because it sounds like in a lot of ones, at least the earlier ones, you didn't get that either like the the person wants this, this is what you're gonna do kind of a thing. So that's really cool. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. And with that one, with that first project, if with it being my first project, I almost felt like, if I do say anything, they're gonna I have anxiety Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: and so I constantly am overthinking everything. I'm like, if I do say something, or if I say I don't wanna do this, or if I say I don't wanna say this line or say it in a different way, maybe they'll say I'm difficult and I won't get any more work done or I won't do this. So I I Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: I'm just not gonna say anything. And from that evolution, even though I've technically only done three verticals, The third one, in my opinion, is the best thing I've done. period, point Mike Winson: That's awesome. Claudia Hawkins: blank. Including even theater and things that I did and was really proud of in high school. This is the best project and work that I have ever done. And it's being able to get that confidence to say, hey, let me try it out. Let me s let me Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: I know the character. I've read her. It's who I am now for the next month. let me let me let me cook a little bit here. And for them trusting us as actors and being able to sort of go with us, especially like I said, in a new way that they're not used to. Cause then their mind they're thinking, okay, we need views. How are people gonna react? Because they're used to the over top, over dramatic show Mike Winson: Mm. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: of emotion. Okay, we'll trust you, but like please, please tell me that we're gonna get the views. And I'm like, I'm tr I'm telling you, I think people are gonna appreciate it more. Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: Let's just see. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And we'll go back to how we've been doing it. But if it comes out and everybody loves it, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Mike Winson: Yeah. and and I think people are ready for something different. So that's definitely I think now's as good a time as any for that because I think Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: people are so tired of the I think if the AI slot that's been out there is so over the Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: top in in emotion, in in just in everything, I think people are are really craving something that has a more real life feel. And in the end, as funny as and weird and and everything as some of the earlier verticals are, they there was no real life feel to any of them. And Claudia Hawkins: Mm mm. Mike Winson: I think that's I think that's what I think that'll be I think it'll be good for verticals going forward for sure. Claudia Hawkins: I think so too. And obviously we still have, your typical you saw my TikTok. I d I got a smoothie on my head. I we still Mike Winson: Yep. Claudia Hawkins: have our typical vertical tropes, obviously, but yeah, I think people are I'm excited. I think and I hope people are gonna love it. So we'll see. We'll see. Mike Winson: Manifest. Manifest. all right. So what I want to do is I got I call it a speed round, just some easy questions. your go-to coffee order. Claudia Hawkins: I don't drink coffee, I'm a matcha girl. I know. I'm sorry. It hurts my stomach. Mike Winson: What? We're gonna hang up. I'm sorry. This is done. This interview is over. Can't do this anymore. Okay, okay. Then what your your go to drink then? Claudia Hawkins: a iced matcha latte with oat milk for sure. Mm-hmm. Mike Winson: Okay. Claudia Hawkins: I'm just plain. I I like it. If if it's got some sort of banana sweetener in it, like I've been doing a banana bread matcha recently, I love that too. But as long as it tastes like earth and it's green and it's cold, I'll take it. Exactly. Mike Winson: Hey, whatever works for you. all right. Sweet or savory breakfast. Claudia Hawkins: Savory. Mike Winson: What's your go to food? Claudia Hawkins: chicken wings. But if we're talking about breakfast, sausage, Mike Winson: Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: gravy, biscuits. Mike Winson: so southern. So southern. Claudia Hawkins: Sausage gravy, I'll be I I know. My mom made them yesterday for me because I told her I'm home now, you have to make them for me. And she's like, Okay, fine. Mike Winson: Ha ha ha. Claudia Hawkins: And she made them for me and I'm gonna have some for dinner tonight as well. But there you go. Mike Winson: Heck yeah. beach or mountains. Claudia Hawkins: Mountains. Yes. Mike Winson: Yes. I agree. go to karaoke song. Claudia Hawkins: Life is a highway, but specifically the Rascal for Lats version. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Winson: Yep. Rascal flats is the only way to go with it. Amen. dogs or cats? Yes, I know you got cats. I remember you were that was one of the things you were looking forward to getting home to most. Claudia Hawkins: Yes. Mike Winson: Did the cats did the cats even notice you when you got home or were they like Claudia Hawkins: Ferb did. Gort did not know who I was and that really hurt my feelings. I Mike Winson: no. Claudia Hawkins: picked him up. I picked him up like I usually do and he immediately was like freaked out and bit me. Mike Winson: No Claudia Hawkins: And he's never and then two hours later he comes in my room and is snuggling on me and he's like, I'm sorry. It was fine. I know who you are now. I'm like, Yeah, I get it, but like, wow, that really hurt my feelings. Okay. Yeah. Mike Winson: Rude. Rude. Claudia Hawkins: I cried just a l I only cried a little bit, just a teeny bit. Mike Winson: you may Claudia Hawkins: Just a little Mike Winson: this may be the same answer. favorite comfort food. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah, I think sausage, gravy, and biscuits. Or Mike Winson: Yeah, yeah. Claudia Hawkins: chicken wings. yeah, like I said earlier. I don't know. I've been on a chicken wing kick lately, so Mike Winson: last show you binged. Claudia Hawkins: Right now actually, Widows Bay. Mike Winson: Okay. Claudia Hawkins: I'm on like I started on my flight home and I got through like five episodes on the flight and now I'm trying to finish this show while doing my puzzle and it's it's it's really good. If you haven't seen it you should watch it, it's really great. Mike Winson: Mm. I have not seen it, but I have definitely heard of it. Morning Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: Person or Night Owl? Claudia Hawkins: Morning person. Yeah. Mike Winson: Same. I could stay up late, but I'm definitely a morning person. is there a food that you refuse to eat? Claudia Hawkins: Coleslaw. I I have like an irrational fear of coleslaw. Like being around it makes gives me anxiety. Mike Winson: Any kind? Claudia Hawkins: Yeah, I I just yeah, I hate it so much. I've never had it before. Mike Winson: What's the what's the You've never had it and you've got a fear f Claudia Hawkins: No. No. Like I think so growing up, it was when I lived with my grandmother, sh it was very much you have to eat what I put in front of you Mike Winson: Okay. Claudia Hawkins: and you cannot get up from the table. Like even if Mike Winson: Okay. Claudia Hawkins: you like one time I threw up and she still was like, You gotta stay there. Like it was horrible, horrible. So I have a horrible relationship with food just to begin Mike Winson: Wow. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: with. But coleslaw was like I think one of the last meals before I was like, No, I've had enough was she tried to make me eat coleslaw and I said, Absolutely not. And she's like, You're gonna sit here and you're gonna eat it. And I'm like, I'm not eating it. And so since then, since I've had Mike Winson: Wow. Claudia Hawkins: my freedom, every time someone brings around coleslaw, pass the coleslaw. I'm not touching it. Like I'm I just I cannot it just brings me anxiety. Yeah, no colesla. No, no, no, no. Mike Winson: Okay, mental note do not get coleslaw when around Claudia. Got it. favorite season. Yep. Sounds about right for an East Coaster. Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Winson: sweet treat you can't say no to. Claudia Hawkins: A banana split. Mike Winson: Real okay. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: I know. I'm not a big sweets person, but if I am it's a banana split. Like I will never say no to a banana split. Mike Winson: I don't think I have ever had one. Ever. Claudia Hawkins: They are so I don't like nut I get them without the nuts and without the pineapple, but everything else, mm, so good. You're missing out. Mike Winson: Okay, I need to ask this wasn't a question, but what are your thoughts on pineapple on pizza? Claudia Hawkins: Hate it. Absolutely hate it. Mike Winson: Okay, good. We can still be friends. Even Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: even without the even without coleslaw or coffee, it's okay. You you made up for it Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: all right there. real or dream partner to act with. Claudia Hawkins: Anybody like any any Mike Winson: Anybody. Claudia Hawkins: anybody I ooh It used to be and this is such a weird it used to be Joseph Gordon Levitt. I was obsessed with Joseph Gordon Levitt growing Mike Winson: Okay, yep. Claudia Hawkins: up. loved him and everything. But I think now it might be Michael Keaton. Before Mike Winson: Okay. Claudia Hawkins: God forbid he does not. I love him as an actor and I would love to work with him in anything. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Winson: Yeah, he's really good. if you had a free day with zero plans, what would you do? Claudia Hawkins: No. Honestly, this sounds really lame. I'd probably do a puzzle. I'd probably just go out, get buy a new puzzle, come home and just do it all day. Mike Winson: So you're a big puzzle person? Claudia Hawkins: I I wanna do competitive puzzling eventually. Mike Winson: Really? Claudia Hawkins: I think I could I think I would be excellent at it. I did Mike Winson: Okay. What's the biggest puzzle you've ever done? Claudia Hawkins: I've done a fifteen hundred piece puzzle and that took me two days to finish. Mike Winson: Okay. Claudia Hawkins: But I did one I did a 1,000 piece puzzle and it took me start to finish open the box two and a half hours. And that was right before I left. Like I had I had nothing to do all day. I turned on a true crime documentary and I did this one thousand piece puzzle in two and a half hours. Mike Winson: My my record, I think, puzzle w growing up was a 7500 piece puzzle. It took a month for us to do it, but Claudia Hawkins: I well, how do you do that? Do you do it in sections and then place them all together or Mike Winson: You have a really big freaking table. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: I was gonna say, I can't even imagine having a I have a puzzle table that I put on my bed that has legs so that I can do Mike Winson: Mm. Yeah. Claudia Hawkins: it in my room, but gosh, I would love Mike Winson: Yeah, it Claudia Hawkins: to do a 79500 piece. Mike Winson: Yeah. They're they're fun to do once, but then you're like, okay, I'm I'm good with the five hundred thousand piece puzzles Claudia Hawkins: Yeah. Mike Winson: from this point on. Claudia Hawkins: Well, I also like to glue them and put them in my book. And so that w I wouldn't be Mike Winson: Mm. Claudia Hawkins: able to glue them or do anything if they get that big. Yeah. Mike Winson: That's true. okay, for people that want to learn more about you, follow you, support you and your stuff, where can they find you? Claudia Hawkins: You can find me on Instagram at Claudia underscore Hawkins underscore twelve eighteen or TikTok is probably my most active. And you could just search up Claudia Hawkins or if you need the exact username, it's Kim dot underscore dot Claudashian. 'Cause I also really like the Kardashians, I'm sorry. Mike Winson: Hey, you know, it is what it is. no, no, no judge. No judge. This is a no judge zone here. Claudia Hawkins: Everybody has their vice, okay? That's mine. That is mine. Mike Winson: Claudia, thank you so much for coming on and letting us get to know you. I appreciate you doing this. Claudia Hawkins: Thank you for inviting me, seriously. Mike Winson: Of course. for everyone that has watched and gotten this far, thank you so very much. Please hit all those buttons down below. subscribe, comment, share, all that stuff. It makes it possible for me to keep doing what I do, which is interview amazing people like Claudia right here. and just for everyone that may be new to this podcast, just so you know, breaking the meta is about having hard conversations when necessary, fighting to break the status quo and the idea that all people, no matter your race, religion, gender, or identity, deserve rights, respect, dignity, and safety. Again, Claudia, thank you for being here. And everyone else, we'll see you next time on Breaking the Meta. Bye guys.