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Legally Brunette: Do You Really Know Your Neighbors? · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi guys, welcome to Legally Brunette. I'll be your host today,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Emily Simpson and... Shane.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Shane.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's get into this case. First of all, Caroline
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Herling had a gift for identifying vulnerability. She knew that
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the recently deceased could not speak for themselves and that
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the lonely and isolated rarely had anyone checking in on them.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: What began as a calculated scheme to exploit the dead
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: and the forgotten would spiral into something far darker. a
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: web of forged documents, stolen identities, and vanishing assets worth millions.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: By the time authorities began pulling the threads of this
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: case apart, what they found wasn't just financial crime. It
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: was something that would haunt the investigators, the victims' families,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: and the quiet suburban streets where it all unfolded. Okay,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: this takes place in Los Angeles. And actually, I watched
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: this because I was watching, I think it was Netflix,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and there was a new series out called the worst
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: neighbor ever or something like that. And I think there
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: were four episodes. This episode was called the executor and
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I started watching it. It seemed, I don't know, like,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: you know, it's going towards true crime. Something's going to happen.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: It was so bizarre and so weird and so disgusting
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: that I was just like, I was like, we have
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to talk about this.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Okay. So let's go through it. A So first, we're
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: going to start out with Charles Wilding. He was an
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: older man. He lived alone in LA, and he spent
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: his entire life in his family home on Kingswood Road.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: This is in Sherman Oaks, California. After his mother, June,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: who was an elementary school teacher who lived to be 90,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: passed away in June of 2017, Charles was then living alone.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: He never married. He had no children, and he became
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: increasingly isolated. Neighbors described him as shy and reclusive. and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: his property began to deteriorate. All right, now we have Caroline.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Caroline enters the picture. Caroline Joanne Herling, she also goes
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: by the name Carrie Phoenix, lived in the Los Angeles area.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: People who knew her socially initially described her as friendly, cheerful,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and outwardly normal. But investigators eventually discovered that she ran
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: a fraud operation that specifically targeted vulnerable homeowners. You know,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: when they start this out, they're interviewing, like, I guess
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: everyone kind of lived together in this apartment complex in LA.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: And I think it was nice. And it was like
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: some younger families. And they interviewed some of her neighbors.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: And they're, you know, women in their, I don't know,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: looks like 30s. And she just comes off as like
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: this very normal, average, cute female that lives in one
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of these, you know, apartments. She and her associates would
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: search affluent neighborhoods. For neglected properties, she would look for
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: things like overgrown landscaping, dirty pools, unmaintained homes, believing that
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: these were signs of elderly or isolated owners. And then
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Caroline used online mapping tools and drove through neighborhoods personally
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: scouting targets. So she's coming up with this financial scheme, right?
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Where she's looking for abandoned properties. that are deteriorating, that
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: look like someone possibly could still live there or they
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: might be abandoned.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: So from the beginning, she's planning a scam?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: This is how.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: It's not good business gone bad.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: No, this is just, this is how she operates. Outwardly,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: she presents herself as like this very nice, young, cute,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: put together lady. Friendly, outgoing, but behind the scenes, she's
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: creating this whole... financial scheme of where she's finding these
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: abandoned properties.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Is this going to be a financial crime turned violent?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Well, you just have to wait and see. All right,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: so we get to the summer of 2020, and Caroline
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: has an associate named Matthew Jason Croth. His name is Jason,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: or he goes by Speedy.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Okay. Do we learn why he goes by Speedy?
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Well, I assume because, well, they all end up, not
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: only do they perpetuate these financial crimes, But they also
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: sell meth. So I assume Speedy has something to do
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: with that, maybe. So Speedy and Caroline are romantically involved,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and he becomes a co-conspirator. So this guy, Speedy, notices
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: that Charles' property is neglected. So he breaks in. So
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: this is the first time he breaks into the property.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: So they just roam around looking for abandoned properties that
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: they could break into and probably wouldn't be alarmed.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I think they.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: To the police or anything right away?
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Right, right. Or not only do they break in, but
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I think they also find these abandoned properties, which would mean,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: like I said before, like an elderly person might live
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: there because they can't take care of it. They can't
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: maintain it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: They're looking for low-hanging fruit with property crimes. Right.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: All right. So when Speedy breaks into this property the
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: first time, he finds Charles still alive inside.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: And then he claims, because they run into each other,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: he breaks into his house. He's inside his home. And
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: he claims that he was just there conducting a welfare
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: check and left.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Wait, does he have a relationship with Charles?
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: No, he just sees the property.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: So he just likes to do welfare checks when the
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: homes look abandoned?
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what he said. He was clearly breaking.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Into a property to do a welfare check.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Well, that's not the reason he broke.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I know, but that's his story story. Yeah, that's a
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: ridiculous story.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: That's the best he could come up with off the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: top of his head. He clearly did not expect to
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: run into this man.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Inside his home. If he said I had to call
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: the police or I had to use I use the
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: restroom or there was an emergency. I had to. OK,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: rather than like I was concerned for this unknown citizen
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: with the lights off.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I always wonder, because I don't know beyond that, but
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I wonder if Charles found this... Flattering? Or if he
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: believed the story, or did he call the police? I
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: guess not.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Wait, is Charles dead? Is that how we don't know
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: how he feels? Yes. Oh.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Charles... Okay. So then this is the first time he
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: breaks in. He runs into Charles. He tells him he's
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: doing a welfare check. I don't know. I'm just going
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: to assume that Charles buys it and doesn't say anything.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: He later.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: He's like, yes, I'm okay. Can you please repair my
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: window now? Yes.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Is that what it is? Yeah.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: He later returns, but this time when he breaks in,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: he finds Charles dead. So actually when he returns, I'm
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: sure he was pleasantly surprised to find Charles dead. And
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Charles died alone. Like no one knows he's dead. And
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know how long he's been dead, but he's
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: been dead and he's in the house and they find him.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Rather than reporting the death, Well.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course he's not going to report the death. Right.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Why would he report the death?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: He was there for a welfare check the first time.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: The second time, he's not there for a welfare check.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: No, now he's dead.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: So he steals jewelry, he steals his mail, and he
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: steals Charles' personal identifying information, passing all this information along
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: to Caroline and her associates.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: All right, investigators believe that Charles died somewhere around September
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: of 2020, and his body was never recovered, making it
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: impossible to determine whether his death was natural, accidental, or
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: the result of foul play.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, now I got questions. Yeah. How do we know
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: all this? This is all based on Speedy's account? Yeah,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying. So Speedy's honest now. He's saying,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I broke in once.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Right, and he was already dead.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I was a concerned citizen, and he was fine. Hadn't
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: heard from him for a few weeks, so I returned. Right.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: And he was dead, and I figured there was nothing
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: I could do. So I disposed of his body and
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: took all his valuables?
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Well, we don't know what he did with the body yet.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: We're going to get there. But at the time he returns,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: he does steal valuables and he steals personal identifying documents.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: My question was when I was watching this, because I
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: feel like they just kind of glossed over it, but
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I thought, how do we know that Charles died of
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: natural causes? How do we know that Speedy just didn't
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: return and think, God, this guy's still alive and then
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: murder him. But- We don't know. And I'll tell you
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: later why we don't know. So Caroline and Speedy now
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: realize that with him being dead, that's an asset to them.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: But no one having reported it because he's still in
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: the house alone with no one else living there.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: They're like, what can we do with this information? Right.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: So they know that they can keep him legally alive
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: on paper. My question is, though, how do they know?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, if they just find him dead.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a pretty good assumption. Yeah. Yeah.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, if he'd been there a while, like let's
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: assume that Speedy finds him when he comes back the
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: second time and he finds him dead in a chair
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: or something. And I guess if it looks and smells
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: as if he's just been there for a while, then
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I guess you can reasonably conclude that he.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: And they're crooks. They'll take chances. It's not like it's
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: a calculated risk where they got to go through and
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: research this guy. They're like, hey, no one's here. Clearly
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: no one else is doing welfare checks but us. So
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: then they decided let's steal his identity and go do something.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: In fall of 2020, Caroline began appearing at Charles' home
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: telling neighbors that she was managing his affairs. Meanwhile, his
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: body was still dead inside the house.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: It wasn't going to come back to life.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: No, but I'm just saying he's dead in the house. Yeah.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Nobody knows he's dead in the house except for these criminals.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: That didn't kill him.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: That allegedly did not kill him. And now Caroline is
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: showing up at the house. And when neighbors see her
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: at his house, she's just saying that she's there to
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: help him out and to take care of him.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I'm just preserving his body, keeping him alive on paper.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Caroline created fraudulent documents to give the takeover some legitimacy.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: So she had, she actually, and this is interesting because
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I read about this later because they don't really tell
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you that much in this, you know, in this episode,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: but it was a sophisticated scheme. I mean, she had doc,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: like she had a machine that made documents look old.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I'd never heard of that before, but so she had
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: the whole setup because she created a fake power of
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: attorney and, that gave herself power of attorney over his
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: estate and his affairs.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: And so it didn't look like she printed it right
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: there and signed it. It just looked like it was 10,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: 20 years old or something.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Right, so she had some type of machine that made
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: documents look old. Wow. She also created and fabricated a
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Wilding Family Trust, naming herself as the trustee. And these
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: documents gave her apparent legal authority over Charles' property and
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: his finances and his estate.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Well, apparent legal authority. So with all these newfound documents,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: all these created documents by her to look like she
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: has control over his finances, what's she going to do
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: with it? Does he have money?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that he came from a wealthy family.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: His mom died when she was 90. I don't think
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: he had any siblings or children of his own.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: So how are they going to access the money, though?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I do believe that the house that he was
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: living in, even though it's probably run down a little bit,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: we're talking about a house in Sherman Oaks. I think
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the house is worth a lot of money too. So
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: she has the house and a trust and she names
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: herself as the trustee. I don't think this is like
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: a quick, I think this is a complicated scheme where
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: overall what she's trying to do is take ownership of
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: the property and then end up selling the property and
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: then getting millions of dollars from the property. It's not
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: like a quick, she's trying to get his pension.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure they'll take all they can.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: After roughly three months without seeing Charles, a neighbor called
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: the LAPD. So this is a real welfare check. This
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: is an actual neighbor who says, hey, I haven't seen
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: this guy.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: And it smells kind of funny.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in a long time. Officers arrive at Charles' house
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: to do a welfare check, and they found Caroline there instead.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: So they don't find him. They find Caroline. She tells
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: them that Charles is alive and temporarily staying with friends
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: in Carpinteria, California. She also claims that his home had
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: black mold and that she was cleaning it up as trustee.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: That's a good one. Yeah.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: She's smart, right?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: She's quick.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Police tried calling the number she provided for Charles. So
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: she even, like I saw.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: She got him a burner phone. Yeah.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: She has, there's a video.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: She created an email address for him and everything. Yeah.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Of when the police come. And I'm telling you, she
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: comes off. Just like a normal woman that's just a caretaker.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Like a realtor. She could be a realtor. Yeah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: And she's, you know, oh, he's not here. You know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: there was black mold. I'm just taking care of him.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: He's an older guy, you know?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: She doesn't look like she has a... Like she doesn't
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: look like she's a meth addict or anything. No.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Or that she's making false documents in a back room
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and like making documents look old and fabricating things.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: No. Well, I'm curious to see where we go with
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: this one. All right.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So please call the number.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: She can... Because, you know, when you list a home
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: for sale in California, you have to disclose if there's
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: been any deaths inside the house within the last five years.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I want to know if she checked that box or not.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I don't think we get that far.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right. Not in this one.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: All right. So she gives the police a number and
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: says this is Charles's number. I mean, I have to
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: give her credit for being pretty quick. She doesn't know
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the police are going to show up. Right, when she's
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: at his residence. And she comes up with a story
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: about black mold and he's visiting somebody else and she
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: gives him a phone number. Police tried calling the number
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: she provided for Charles. No one answered. Thank goodness. What
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: number did she come up with off the top of
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: her head?
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: It might have been a... Maybe it was Speedy. Maybe
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: it was Speedy, yeah.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And then she's texting Speedy like, don't answer.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, she probably wouldn't have to tell Speedy not
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: to answer. Probably any time a phone call comes in
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: from the LAPD, they just don't answer.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably true. Neighbors also told police that they
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: were worried, but the investigation stalled. Adult Protective Services also
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: looked into Charles' welfare. A caseworker reportedly believed that they
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: spoke with Charles by phone.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Those are Adult Protective Services?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: So Child Protective Services and Adult Protective Services. Yeah.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So what they did was they called the number
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: that she had given them. And then they didn't get
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: an answer at first. But when they continued to call,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: she ended up getting someone, a male, a man, to
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: answer on the other end and say that he was
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Charles and that he was, you know, fine.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: There's black mold in my house. Is it gone yet?
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Everything's fine. Don't worry.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: See that lady? So that cooled off the police then?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: For a little, yeah. Okay.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: All right, then we get to 2021, and Caroline's expanding
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: her fraud. Caroline continued presenting herself as Charles' legitimate representative.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Using forged documents, the conspirators began taking control of his
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: assets tied to Charles and his family. They also targeted
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: a second victim named Robert Tasson, who was an Encino
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: homeowner who was away from his property. So I guess, again,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: they're doing that same scheme. They found a house that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: looked abandoned that probably wasn't very well taken care of.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: This homeowner's gone. He's alive, but he's just not physically
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: at the home. And they began creating.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Is this like a neighbor?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: No, it's just a second victim.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Oh. They got a referral? I guess. Do you have
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: any friends? Yeah.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: They put an ad out on Craigslist. Like, do you
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: know anyone with an older home that looks like it's
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: dilapidated a little that might have a.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Dead body inside? We do welfare checks. Call us. Yeah.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: So this is a second property, and this guy's name's Robert.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: There's no connection other than she's just finding homes where
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: older people are gone or dead.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Or, you know, incapacitated in some way.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: It's like Home Alone. The Wet Bandits just went around.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: They just kind of observe people's patterns and see when
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: they're coming and going and if they're going on vacation.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is slightly more sophisticated than the
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Wet Bandits, but I do see a little, you know.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Comparison there. Using fraudulent identification and forged documents, an imposter
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: posed as Robert. This is the other guy. This is
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: the second house. They sold his home for approximately $ 1. 5
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: million without his knowledge. A $ 950, 000 wire transfer connected to
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the sale later became a critical investigative clue. So they
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: actually created documents that they owned this home and then
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: they sold it. While this guy's just, I don't know,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: he's probably like traveling.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Europe or something.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: And he comes home and his house is gone.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: And the buyer's a legitimate buyer.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Right, the buyer's a legitimate buyer who pays the $ 1. 5
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: million for this house. The scheme grew further when a
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: forged will purportedly belonging to a woman named Jackie Shields
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Lowenstein surfaced, naming Charles as executor and beneficiary of an
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: estate worth more than $ 1. 7 million. Investigators determined that the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: will was also a forgery. So this is a complex scheme.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're forging documents left and right. Because Caroline
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: controlled Charles' supposed affairs, any assets flowing to him could
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: ultimately flow to her.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Wait, so they received one and a half million bucks?
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Not from Charles' estate.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I know, from the second home. From Roberts' estate, yes.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: They got one and a half million bucks. Yeah. Well,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: it wasn't as... Oh, yeah. And then... So they sold
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: it before they sold Charles?
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Well, Charles is dead and he's in the house. So
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I feel like he's complicating their life a little bit.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess they could use it as a headquarters. Yes.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Open it. Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: For their business. They just put like a sheet over him.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Just work around him. He's the mascot for their company.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Well, Robert wasn't physically in his home. So I feel
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: like that was easier. They just created the documents.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: No, but they're using the home for shelter. Probably. Well, they.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: She still lives in that apartment where the other women
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: were talking about her that they interviewed because they talked
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: about how when they first met her, she was pretty
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: normal and friendly and nice. And then as time went on.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: But you'd think they'd sell Chuck's house first.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: No, because there's a dead body in there.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: They'll get rid of it. It's in a shallow grave somewhere.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: That's my prediction.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, but we're in LA and this is Sherman Oaks.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you can just remove a dead
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: body without people noticing.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: It happens all the time. We cover these cases all
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: the time. And you always say, how did they do that?
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: No, well, I talk about like Kristen Smart's body at
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: slow and like, how did he get it out of
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: his dorm room?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't believe the body's in the house right
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: now because the police would have seen it.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: So when the police come and investigate and they're doing
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: a welfare check, they actually do go inside the house.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: But they don't see, I don't know, they must have
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: just moved Charles and just maybe like pushed him to
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the side or in a corner. They're literally like near
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: his body inside the house, but they don't see him.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: And I don't know how they don't smell like dead
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: body smell.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and police would know that.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: They would know that.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they've had experiences.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Right. So I don't know why they didn't know there
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: was a dead body in there. I feel like as
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: soon as you walked in, it would have just like
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: hit you.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: These criminals are kind of interesting. Yeah, they are.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: It gets more interesting. So then we get to October
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: of 2021. This is a tip that comes in. So
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: LAPD detective Mark O'Donnell receives an anonymous tip that Charles
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: may be dead and people were concealing his death in
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: order to exploit his identity. Detective O'Donnell pulled the December
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: 2020 welfare check and began looking closely at Caroline. He
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: contacted her and asked to speak with Charles directly. A
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: man claiming to be Charles eventually reached out to authorities,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: but Caroline could never produce him in person. Every contact
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: number and story she provided led nowhere. I remember this part.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: He was staying on her pretty adamantly. and he was
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to finally be like, well, where is he? Well, bring
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: him to me in person. Where can I meet him?
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: And she came up with story after story after story
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: and could never physically in person, obviously, produce him. So
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: in March of 2022, Caroline moved into a home in
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the West Hills neighborhood of Los Angeles after being evicted
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: from her Beverly Glen apartment for nonpayment of rent. I
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: don't know why she can't pay her rent.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: And a bunch of money.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: She sold Robert's house for $ 1. 5 million. When she was
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: living in the Beverly Glen apartment, this is where they
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: did these interviews with other people that lived in this
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: apartment complex who said when they first met her that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: she was just like this kind, nice lady that lived
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: in the Beverly Glen apartments. And then over time, they
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: kept hearing like raging music at night and like pounding
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: and like weird things were going on. Then she gets evicted.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: She told her new neighbors that she was running a
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: sober living home there, but neighbors noticed suspicious behavior. So
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: she moves into a new place and says that it's
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: a sober living home.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Managed by Speedy. Yes. Okay. Okay.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: The neighbors actually became key sources for Detective O'Donnell documenting
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: unfamiliar vehicles, visitors, and communications from Caroline. Investigators examined documents
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: tied to Charles and found widespread forgery across trust documents,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: powers of attorney, estate paperwork, and identification materials. The missing
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: person case had evolved into a potential homicide combined with
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: elder exploitation, identity theft, and real estate fraud. So then
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: in June of 2022, This is Detective O'Donnell. He brought
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: in the U.S. Postal Inspector Lyndon Versosa, a financial crime specialist.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Do they arrive in a mail truck?
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: No, it's a federal.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: FBI postal inspector. They don't issue postal trucks?
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Do they issue them weapons if you're part of the
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: FBI but you deal in postal fraud?
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I think so. I think so.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: So even though you're like the federal postal inspector, you
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: still get the bulletproof vest.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: And all the things.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know how much they.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Choose to wear, but yeah. Well, if you're a field
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: postal service enforcer, I don't know what they're called. What
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: are they called?
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Well, this is called the U.S. Postal Inspector, Lyndon Versosa,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: and he's a financial crime specialist. Well, they had to
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: bring in a financial crime specialist to understand where it
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: was complex. I mean, she has a complex system going
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: with all these forgery and trusts and documents. So someone
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: to actually be able to follow the money.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: They're not going to bring a blood splatter specialist to
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: figure out the fraudulent documents. Thank you. Glad you cleared
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: that up for the listeners.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you cleared that up. Thank you. Following Caroline's money,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: investigators zeroed in on a massive wire transfer connected to,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: this was Robert, the other guy, the fraudulent sale of
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: his home. Confirming that the operation was far broader than
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: just one man's estate. So now they realize that this
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: is not just like they took advantage of just this
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: poor Charles guy. This is like an ongoing financial crime.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Investigators uncovered evidence of active impersonation. So a process server
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: attempting to serve Charles over unpaid credit card debts. I mean,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: the man's dead. He can't pay his credit cards now.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: No, but if they're keeping him alive, they should be
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: paying his bill so he doesn't get flagged. You know...
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that, well, do we know if they killed Charles?
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: We never know, but.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Do we believe that he killed Charles?
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think maybe Charles was legitimately just
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: died in the house.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Because if they found him deceased, you know, they're like,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: that's not what they want. They just wanted like people
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: on vacations that have like second homes. Like they were
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: trying to get into non-violent crimes, probably. Just financial crimes.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know because we're going to go on
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: and there's a lot more. Oh, okay.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: All right. Keep going.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: A process server attempting to serve Charles over unpaid credit
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: card debts reported serving a man claiming to be Charles.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: He was found lying in bed at an address connected
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: to Caroline.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I assume maybe that's Speedy. I don't know. A woman
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: there identified herself as Charles' daughter, but Charles has no children.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: And then the conspirators had effectively... They're just trying to
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: do everything possible to make it that Charles is alive.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I'm his daughter!
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: The conspirators had effectively created a living, functional version of
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Charles to keep the fraud running.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: As law enforcement... But again, why are they keeping him alive?
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I think because.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: They got a million and a half bucks for this
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: other home. They should just move on to another home
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: and another home. Why are they dealing with a dead body?
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Because I think.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Well, one, they're drug addicts.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if there's a lot of... I mean,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: she's pretty savvy as far as the financial crimes. But
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: they're also methamphetamine addicts. users so but while she's running
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: a sober living home.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Well she's not right a sober living home.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: But i do but i believe the sober living home
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: was probably another scheme because you probably get money from
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the state if you have a sober living home right
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: if you if you have a property and you claim
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: it's a sober living home.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: If she went that far unless she was just saying
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: it just to excuse why they're rowdy and stuff like
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: hey like.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Don't look this way i'm trying to take they're just.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Having difficulty with their withdrawals.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah So as law enforcement pressure mounted, Charles remains becomes
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: a liability. I mean, it's getting difficult, right? Because he's
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: still dead in the house.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he has financial responsibilities.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Right, he's got to pay his credit card debt.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're his caretakers, so they better get it done.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: If discovered, the timeline of his death would expose the
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: fact that documents and transactions authorized by him happened after
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: he was already dead. That is a problem on a timeline.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: You can't have signatures after his death.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: It's very difficult to explain that one in court. Exactly.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Prosecutors say Caroline and her associates moved and ultimately disposed
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: of his remains. They had to remove the body from
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the house. So she moves his body, I'm sure with help,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: to her apartment in Beverly Glen.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: To the sober living housing?
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: No, this is the apartment she got evicted from before
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: she moved to the sober living house. So she takes
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Charles's body. They move it to her Beverly Glen.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: So Charles moves in with her.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Charles lives with her now in her Beverly Glen apartment.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: But they have to get rid of the body. So
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: she actually dismembers the body. This is, again, where I
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: get freaked out when people dismember bodies. I don't understand
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: how you do that. I can't even think of if
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I broke a bone and a bone stuck through, how
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: disgusting and atrocious that would be. So how people dismember
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: bodies makes no sense to me. She also had to
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: drain the blood.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Is this why you haven't killed anyone yet?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just... I can't. I just can't.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I couldn't go through... You'd kill a lot of people
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: except for the fact that it'd gross you out.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just so gross. So she ends up dismembering
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: him and they put his... She also drains the blood
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and then also uses.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I did that with the cow. What?
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: You and your stories.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Well, when I was in Cape Verde, there was a
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: cow that a family had and they had a date
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: that they were going to kill the cow to butcher it. Yeah,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: but they... This fed... families and this was a big
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: deal and the cow was hungry so it was better
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: off that they put it dead trust me but they
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: put it dead yeah this is the world this third
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: world country this cow was anyway i learned that you
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: have to drain the blood and that's what they did
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: they slit the throat and then they push the belly
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: and then you have to drain all the blood okay.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Well they have to so they have to drain the
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: blood out of charles right yeah so then and then
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: they use i believe wait does he have blood at
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: this point I don't know.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Maybe. Then they use acid to try to like, because
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: they're trying to just get rid of the body.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: So they dismember him. Why don't they just bury it
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: in a shallow grave like every other criminal?
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: No, because they're on meth. So they're like, we have
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: to take him to the Beverly Glen apartment. We have
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to dismember him. Then we have to put acid on
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: him to try to disintegrate his body. And then they
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: dump like all his like skin and organ juice into
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: a garden in Beverly Glen.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: What?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: This sounds like it would have been easier just to
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: dump the body in a dumpster. No.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: They do all these things to this body, chopping it up.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: They put all his different body parts in bags, and
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: then they drive to Northern California and dispose of him
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: in the San Francisco Bay.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Is that the first place they could come up with?
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I guess. And then the Charles juice that's left over,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: they pour out and dump into the garden at the
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Beverly Glen Apartments. Wow.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Is the garden just like... Florals? Arrangements? Or is it
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: like fruit and stuff?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. But the neighbors that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: lived in this Beverly Glen apartment report that there was
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: all kinds of loud banging and noise going on. I
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: assume that's when she was dismembering the body.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Wait, again, how do we know all this? Is this
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: from Speedy? His testimony?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: She actually later, once they arrest her, and they interrogate her.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, she spills the beans?
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: She spills the beans, yeah. So this is how they
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: learn later what she did with the body.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Did they refer to it as Charles Juice, or is
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: that just you?
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: That was me. I just, yeah, that was me. Prosecutors
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: noted that Caroline also rented a high-performance car for the trip,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: took photos on the boat, and then flew back to
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Southern California by private plane.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Well, might as well make it an experience. I mean,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: why not?
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Charles' remains have never been found. i mean if i
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: was going to dispose of a body up in san
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: francisco i would definitely.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: They were never found why'd she have to confess.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: All that when they bring her in and start interrogating
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: her she's just it's like word vomit she just tells
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: them everything and they probably did the little mind trick
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: you know the police mind trick like we're your friends
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: just tell us what you did it'll be okay you're
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: not a bad person you just made a mistake we
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: know that he was dead we know you didn't kill
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: him so just tell us what happened.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: We already know everything that happened we just want you
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: to tell us.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: January of 2023, the case starts to come together. Federal
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: search warrants were executed at locations tied to Caroline Harreling,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: including her West Hills home, which was purchased with illicit proceeds.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Investigators recovered stolen and counterfeit identification documents, social security information,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: birth certificates, passports. Signature reproduction equipment. I'm telling you, this
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: is like a savvy, savvy, you know.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: No, this is not your Walmart murder kit.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: No, this is your Nordstrom murder kit.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, your Staples murder kit.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Fake law enforcement credentials, financial documents tied to Wilding. This
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: is Charles' estate. Contraband and like 16 firearms.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: No meth?
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, I believe there was meth too. Yeah, there was
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: meth found and like meth baggies because I think she
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: also gets like, possession charges or intent to distribute.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: A speedy was also questioned and cooperated confirming how Charles
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: was targeted. He had spot. He tells them that he
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: had spotted the neglected property entered while Charles was still alive,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: returned then to find him dead and then chose exploitation
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: over reporting the death to the police. Caroline was taken
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: into federal custody in January of 2023 and prosecutors described
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: her as the architect behind everything that who transformed Speedy's
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: opportunistic discovery into a very sophisticated financial conspiracy.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I know. That guy probably just wanted to, like, grab
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: his wallet. Yeah, Speedy. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. No.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: This is what we do. Yeah. We get these, what
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: are they? Document-producing aging machines. Yes. And signature reproduction. Right. And, yeah.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: And we're going to hide the body for a while.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: We're going to pretend that Charles is still alive.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: We're going to move in with Charles.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Yes. And then when people are on to us, we're
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: just going to dismember him.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: And then get a... See that garden over there? Yeah.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: That's where we've dumped the juices. And then we're going
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: to get a Ferrari.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: And we're going to drive up to the bay.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: This guy's like, mine was much simpler. I just wanted
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: to grab his wallet and get a hit for the night.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Then we get to, she pleads guilty and the sentencing.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: So she doesn't go to trial. So in March of 2023... I.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Wonder if people like that, like after she tells everything. Yeah.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: And then she finds out they don't have the body.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: She's like, wait a minute, you didn't have the body? Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: You just wanted to, you said you knew everything. You
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: just wanted to hear it from me. Yeah. And now
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I just told you everything and you're telling me there's
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: no body? Not so smart, is she?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Well, she was smart on one end. I mean, she
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: produced some pretty.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Legitimate looking- She should have been a real estate agent.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Financial documents.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But you know what?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: You always talk about this before. It was just as
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: much work for her to be fraudulent.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: As it was to get a job.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: As it was to just.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Get a real job. There's a lot of people that
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: work really hard to not work.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it seems easier to go to work.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, she seems like she's highly intelligent considering this
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: whole scam she came up with. I mean, I wouldn't
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: know how to create trust documents and wills and get...
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Where would you even buy a forgery?
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, you went to law school and stuff.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you didn't figure that stuff out.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I can't figure out stuff like that.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying, where would you buy a forgery or
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a forgery reproduction printing machine? Like, where do you get
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: document aging machines?
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Well, you can Google it. I'm sure it wouldn't be
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: that difficult.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: But you can't get it on, like, Amazon. How do
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: you know? Well, because these machines were clearly made to
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: produce false documents.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: And? Well, guns are made to kill people. They still
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: sell them. All right. It's not illegal to sell the stuff.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: It's illegal to use.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: It that way. All right. So in March of 2023,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Caroline Herling pleads guilty to one count of conspiracy to
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: commit wire fraud. Speedy pleads guilty to conspiracy to commit
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: wire fraud and a separate drug trafficking offense. Then in
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: March of 2024, Caroline is sentenced to 20 years in
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: federal prison.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Dang.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: The statutory maximum.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Wait, I'm sorry if I missed it. Were they ever
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: found guilty of murder?
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: No.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Just handling the body?
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I did read that she did get such
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: a maximum sentence because they used what she did with
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: the body as an aggravating factor to make the sentence legal.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: you know, longer. Cause I mean, she's only, she only
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: pleads guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: but she gets 20 years in prison. So they used
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: all the stuff that she did with the dismembering and
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the body and all that stuff is an aggravating factor
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: on that. You know, I think, and honestly, who knows,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: maybe Speedy entered the second time and did murder him.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: I guess you have no body. And so to try
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: to prove that there was anything, I mean, there's no
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: way to be able to prove it at that point.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: They got away with.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Getting rid of the body.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Wow. She's got 20 years? Yeah.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: So she's sentenced to 20 years in federal prison, which
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: is the statutory maximum, and ordered to pay $ 3. 8 million
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: in restitution. The judge emphasized that Caroline treated Charles as
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: a financial resource rather than a human being.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Well, duh.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: On February 5th of 2026, so this was pretty recently,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Speedy is sentenced to 16 years and 8 months in
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: federal prison and ordered to pay $ 1. 9 million in restitution.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: The court noted that he was the person who first
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: identified Charles as a target, and he was the one
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: who kicked the whole thing off. Charles Wilding's remains have
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: never been recovered. His cause of death remains unknown, and
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Caroline Herling is currently serving 20 years, and Speedy is
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: serving nearly 17. The total losses from the conspiracy they
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: put together was about $ 3. 8 million. And my question is,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I know they're ordered to pay restitution, but you're talking
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: about meth addicts and, you know, criminals. I mean, do
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: you think she has a bank account somewhere with the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: money in it?
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: No, and the only way she knew how to make money,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: they took away from her. Like, she can't commit that
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: crime anymore. Right.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: So it's like, I mean, she's going to spend 20
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: years in prison, but, I mean, no estate's ever going
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: to see that money back.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: No, but you still put it in there. What if
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: they win the lottery or something or inherit some money
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: or something, you know?
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: So, wow. Interesting.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Do you have any final thoughts on Caroline and Speedy?
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: I wonder if she's manipulative. I wonder if she's going
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: to do anything with her cellmate and stuff.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: In prison?
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: You mean she has a whole scheme going on, like
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: this financial scheme? She's making documents in her cell?
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, she's like, look, officer, see, I'm getting released today. Yeah.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: The documents are right here. You can tell. See, they're aged. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Look, the warden signed it.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Here's his signature.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Right. Oh, wow. I have to go tend my garden. Yeah.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I need to get out. Yeah.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, does body juice act as a fertilizer?
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, because you use manure and things as a fertilizer,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: so do dead bodies act as a fertilizer?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess so.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: So maybe that garden's really kicking off.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: All right, thank you so much for listening to Legally Brunette. please,
• 36:52
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• 37:08
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