Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / Restitution: A remedy for justice, or another form of prison

Transcript

Restitution: A remedy for justice, or another form of prison · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:13
  It is a an understatement to say that I have learned more in the last five and a half years about the justice system than the entire 50 years prior to that.
• 0:28
  My only knowledge about law and order was through my husband and his work on the NYPD and the arrests that he made, the cases he was involved in, my husband arrested guilty people, put guilty people in prison, took thousands of guns off the street, made New York a safer place to live.
• 0:50
  That was my experience when my husband was in a severe car accident due to a perpetrator running him off the road with 19 prior arrests, and he received 43 years in prison for attempted murder.
• 1:08
  That made sense to me.
• 1:11
  He said he wanted to kill a cop.
• 1:13
  He tried.
• 1:37
  And as we know, it's gone down the drain in many cities across the country since the summer of love of 2020, uh, which was all paid for, as we know, and to destroy our country.
• 1:52
  I hope more people are learning and understanding what's really going on here.
• 1:55
  And these protests are paid, these people are paid, they know where the money's coming from.
• 2:00
  God bless every single independent journalist with a little fuzzy microphone and a phone, exposing all of this.
• 2:07
  They've done more for transparency than I everybody, everybody, every law enforcement officers, because they don't law enforcement officers bring cases to their supervisors.
• 2:21
  And if the supervisors don't want to prosecute, or they don't want to bring it to the DA, or they don't want to touch it because it's political, it ends right there.
• 2:28
  I just saw a post on X the other day with two business cards of people that I knew who were investigators, and they were getting all kinds of flack for you know, basically not following through.
• 2:41
  And I've I, you know, I held my breath because I know for a fact there are so many investigations that go on in DC and in uh I have a an incident in an event of a friend of mine in the film industry that, and I'll talk about that someday, where the FBI said, yeah, there's a crime here, but we can't prosecute, we're not gonna prosecute this, we're not gonna move it up the chain.
• 3:11
  Uh there's many reasons for that.
• 3:12
  Now, this was a film industry issue, it was a piracy issue, and millions and millions of millions of dollars were stolen from someone I know.
• 3:23
  Uh, and why wasn't it a sexy case to take on?
• 3:27
  I don't know.
• 3:28
  And maybe that will change.
• 3:29
  Maybe, maybe as time goes on and more evidence comes out, maybe it maybe it will become a bigger case and be attractive enough to take down.
• 3:37
  Now it should not be a question.
• 3:39
  There was there was a crime, it has been committed, uh, and that's kind of where it lives.
• 3:45
  It ends.
• 3:46
  But knowing my friend, knowing me and knowing that, you know, giving her some advice, you gotta keep going.
• 3:51
  You can't give up.
• 3:52
  And she's not.
• 3:54
  My point in that is there's a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that we never know about and die on the vine.
• 4:02
  Corruption, fraud.
• 4:04
  Uh there's not enough manpower.
• 4:07
  They don't aren't interested enough if it's not enough money.
• 4:10
  That's another thing I hear, but it's not enough money to make it attractive.
• 4:14
  And we're going to talk about money, because that's what this episode is about.
• 4:16
  It's about restitution, uh, about fines and fees and what the government does to seize properties and civil forfeiture.
• 4:27
  Uh, you know, that part of the equation that I didn't know anything about until my husband's trial, where, you know, my husband technically, based on the job that he did, legal job that he was arrested for, he made probably maybe zero dollars, but maybe five thousand dollars profit.
• 4:50
  He worked part-time as a private investigator.
• 4:52
  It was just something he loved to do.
• 4:55
  And that's that was the profit, so to speak, profit on the job that he was arrested for.
• 5:02
  So when it came down to the sentencing, the prosecutors wanted to find us, I say us because it's our family, $50,000 because the Pipe Hitter Foundation, wonderful organization, had raised $50,000 for our defense.
• 5:25
  So that's where they got the numb number.
• 5:27
  I mean, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure that out.
• 5:30
  That and they lied, and the prosecutor had to admit to the judge that she had lied about me being the founder of the Prime Hitter Foundation.
• 5:40
  It's on record, it's public.
• 5:42
  So clearly that was the tactic.
• 5:46
  And she disparaged me in that report to the judge about the sentencing and that I was, you know, pulled up quotes of mine really, really unprofessional.
• 5:56
  Totally inappropriate.
• 5:57
  I will deal with that at another time.
• 6:00
  It was, it is so they're so out of control, these prosecutors.
• 6:04
  They they really think that they're just no one can touch them.
• 6:07
  And you know, again, that's usually the case, but as I've told you before, several prosecutors in my husband's case appear to have been fired.
• 6:16
  And one of them was trying to profit on our case and did a speaking engagement.
• 6:26
  And uh, that cannot happen anymore.
• 6:28
  He has been expunged, his case has been thrown out.
• 6:30
  I digress, but the finance side of it is what was interesting.
• 6:35
  Many of it things were interesting, but today's gonna talk about finance.
• 6:38
  So in the federal court system, here's how it went for us.
• 6:46
  We're we're a good template for what we're gonna talk about.
• 6:48
  I'm going to have a guest on uh a wonderful woman named Tanya Pierce in my the second half who has been an advocate for people who are paying restitution.
• 7:00
  Who are paying restitution?
• 7:03
  Their wages are garnished, social security in some cases are garnished when they don't should not be owing anything.
• 7:03
  Their wages are garnished, there's social security in some cases are garnished when they don't should not be owing anything.
• 7:11
  Like there was a ruling 10 years ago, five years ago, seven years ago from a court system that they couldn't argue.
• 7:11
  Like there was a ruling 10 years ago, five years ago, seven years ago from a court system that they couldn't argue.
• 7:21
  There was no hearing, first of all, no hearing to dispute this, you know, restitution.
• 7:21
  There was no hearing, first of all, no hearing to dispute this, you know, restitution, uh, whatever that was.
• 7:31
  Many other many of these cases are financial crimes.
• 7:35
  And there's no, even if you have no proof, let's say you found guilty most of the time, that's just the way the federal system works.
• 7:44
  If there's no victim per se, we'll call them victims.
• 7:48
  If the company doesn't exist that they claim lost money, if there are no personal victims of the so-called crime that you committed, why are you getting fined?
• 8:04
  If you didn't steal millions of dollars from a particular institution, or maybe your boss was the guy who stole the 10 million dollars from the bank, but you are the teller, I'm just using an example, and you worked at the bank, and the court has fined you a few hundred thousand dollars because you were part of the chain of the conspiracy, right?
• 8:28
  You see where I'm going with this.
• 8:29
  So in our case, the alleged victims, CCP Wuhan officials, uh did not ask for any restitution, no financial restitution from my husband.
• 8:43
  They asked for no jail time.
• 8:46
  Now, in the federal system, even though the quote unquote victims didn't ask for money or jail time, it's in the judge's discretion whether or not to do that.
• 9:00
  And that's exactly what Judge Chen did in our case.
• 9:03
  She picked the arbitrary number of $11,000 because she claimed that that was the profit that Mike made on this job.
• 9:13
  And she put him in federal prison for 18 months because he didn't show remorse at his sentencing.
• 9:20
  You should know.
• 9:34
  But if you're not guilty, why would you do that?
• 9:38
  Well, people do that because they would they wanted lessen the time that they have to serve my and Mac there was no way.
• 9:45
  So where does that 11,000 go?
• 9:50
  There's no there's no victim.
• 9:53
  Victims don't want it.
• 9:54
  We're not paying them anything.
• 9:57
  Where's that money go?
• 10:00
  Now, take that, take us, multiply that by I don't know, 100,000 people, 200,000 people, a million people.
• 10:14
  Tanya's going to be speaking to that on the second half because many times this money goes into a fund that is never touched.
• 10:31
  So here you have people who have maybe done served some time after they were found guilty and were fined these exorbitant amount of money for some arbitrary number.
• 10:42
  The judge can pick anything they want, anything.
• 10:48
  And they have to pay that for the rest of their lives because they can't afford to pay it.
• 10:52
  So they take it out of their wages.
• 10:54
  They can't it just it keeps them in prison for the rest of their lives.
• 10:59
  It literally keeps them shackled to the courts forever.
• 11:06
  And Tanya will speak to that.
• 11:09
  And as we know, people who are victims and who have been have suffered at the hands of a person, of course.
• 11:23
  Absolutely, they deserve to be paid.
• 11:27
  They deserve to be made whole if they've lost money, if they have been emotionally hurt, you know, I'm all about that.
• 11:34
  Because the only thing that people understand sometimes is money.
• 11:38
  But in the government, it's not their money.
• 11:41
  So the only reason they care if someone gets paid in a, let's say a civil lawsuit from the government, the only reason that they don't like that is because it makes them look bad.
• 11:52
  They don't care about the money.
• 11:53
  It's not their money.
• 11:55
  It's that they look bad because the you know, prosecution or their civil liberties were violated of an individual, uh, the judge's rulings, whatever that may be, it makes them look bad.
• 12:07
  And I really hope one day we will get an exact number, how much the trial, the investigation, the how many years of uh nonsense were spent of the American people's tax dollars to go after my husband, an innocent man.
• 12:25
  And it wasn't just him.
• 12:27
  There was this coordinated effort.
• 12:29
  Uh, they think they arrested eight people.
• 12:31
  My husband didn't know any of these people, you know, just to make it look like they, you know, the more every number of arrests, the more they can puff their chests up that they have this, you know, you're just a number.
• 12:41
  And we heard that in the beginning.
• 12:42
  You're just a number.
• 12:43
  You're just a number to them.
• 12:45
  But not only was my husband a number, he was a high-profile number.
• 12:49
  It really made them feel great.
• 12:51
  And every day that goes by, we learn more and more who is involved, what was going on, and it's not just us, it's this entire country had the wool pulled over their eyes in 2020.
• 13:01
  And someone needs to be held accountable for these things.
• 13:09
  And I think we're getting closer to that every day, honestly.
• 13:12
  Not us.
• 13:12
  I mean, whatever.
• 13:13
  I'll do whatever I can.
• 13:14
  You know, I'm gonna follow every lead, I'm going to do whatever I can.
• 13:18
  And I never confuse justice with revenge.
• 13:23
  Justice is justice.
• 13:25
  Revenge is a whole other tactic or whatever.
• 13:33
  Revenge comes from an emotional need.
• 13:39
  I don't need that.
• 13:42
  I need justice.
• 13:44
  And every day that Mike has been away from prison and been home, I get stronger and stronger in that direction.
• 13:56
  But in my journey throughout this six years almost, I have met some incredible people.
• 14:00
  Almost, I have met some incredible people.
• 14:03
  And I went to a panel at John Jay College a few weeks ago.
• 14:03
  And I went to a panel at John Jay College a few weeks ago.
• 14:09
  Tanya Pierce invited me to come.
• 14:09
  Tanya Pierce invited me to come.
• 14:11
  I had met Tanya when, after my husband's pardon, there was a panel in New York.
• 14:11
  I had met Tanya when, after my husband's pardon, there was a panel in New York.
• 14:17
  Cynthia Hughes from the weaponization watch organization hosted it.
• 14:17
  Cynthia Hughes from the weaponization watch organization hosted it.
• 14:22
  There were wonderful panel speakers.
• 14:22
  There were wonderful panel speakers.
• 14:24
  My husband was one of them, and Tanya was there.
• 14:24
  My husband was one of them, and Tanya was there.
• 14:27
  And I learned about her cause.
• 14:27
  And I learned about her cause.
• 14:30
  And she's going to speak to it soon.
• 14:35
  And these are forgotten people.
• 14:37
  They don't have a platform like I do.
• 14:42
  It's hard for them to get attention to their cause.
• 14:46
  So what do they do?
• 14:48
  They advocate, they go out, they knock on doors, they talk to Congress.
• 14:51
  Well, that Tanya has done that in more.
• 14:54
  And so much so that years ago they met Alice Johnson.
• 15:01
  And when they met Alice Johnson, I want Tanya to tell the story.
• 15:04
  Anyway, they met each other, and Alice was the keynote speaker at the John Jay College event.
• 15:12
  And I had never met Alice Johnson.
• 15:14
  She's a pardon, the pardons are in the White House.
• 15:19
  She is pardoned by the president of the United States, Donald Trump.
• 15:26
  Kim Kardashian was an advocate for her.
• 15:29
  She was serving, I think she served 21 years in prison for a drug charge, first offense, drug charge, and really turned her life into a mission while she was incarcerated and she helped so many people, and she was she was the really the perfect person to show that everybody deserves a second chance.
• 15:54
  Okay.
• 15:55
  You have the first step act, and you have the second chance.
• 15:58
  And we're going to talk about that in the in the next half hour as well, because there's been great progress, there was great progress under Donald Trump's first term regarding getting people out of prison, the first step act and second chance.
• 16:16
  Because the jails were filled with first-time drug offenders.
• 16:19
  Joe Biden, they they they signed this horrific act.
• 16:28
  I didn't remember 94, I believe, where the first time drug offenders were getting 20 years.
• 16:36
  Then it was very hardcore on the drug trait.
• 16:39
  Well, which I get.
• 16:41
  I get that because my husband worked in the crack wars in New York City.
• 16:47
  They called it the broken window effect, meaning if you arrest somebody for the broken window, it sends a message, and it's a quality of life issue.
• 16:56
  And New York City was a mess.
• 16:58
  It was riddled with drug problems, drug gangs.
• 17:03
  My husband worked in narcotics, so he knew that.
• 17:05
  But he'd be the first person to say, if this guy is the first time, and why are we putting him in prison for 20 years if he's a six, 18-year-old kid?
• 17:18
  Is that he's only going to come back, and we know that.
• 17:21
  Like that's that's what's happened as well.
• 17:23
  So they be they were getting these excessive uh sentences, and the jails were filled with with people who were um drug addicts sometimes.
• 17:36
  I mean, my husband was saying when he was in Michigan, a lot of the incarcerated were it was because of meth.
• 17:43
  They were drug addicts.
• 17:45
  And they're gonna be back.
• 17:49
  And Spencer Pratt just talked about it on his debate for mayor in Los Angeles.
• 17:53
  He said, drug addicts don't need a bed to sleep in.
• 17:58
  They want their drugs, they're addicted, they're they're they're angry, they have drug addiction problems.
• 18:09
  And we don't do anything about it.
• 18:11
  So that's a that's a huge problem.
• 18:14
  Huge.
• 18:15
  So anyway, with Donald Trump, Alice Johnson was given a pardon.
• 18:20
  It was a beautiful moment.
• 18:21
  It really was an example of how these programs can work.
• 18:28
  Now, you need to know something.
• 18:31
  One of the biggest issues, even though these are on the books, these are this is how we're supposed to be dealing with the incarcerated.
• 18:40
  No one is educating the incarcerated on what their options are, the paperwork they have to do, how they talk to their counselor.
• 18:50
  And if you're lucky enough to get a good counselor, like my husband had a great counselor, fantastic, who helped and did really did his job to help make sure Mike did everything he could to get out of there as fast as possible if for some reason he wasn't pardoned, which he was there for three months.
• 19:05
  He was there for three hellish, horrible, horrific, disgusting months.
• 19:09
  But he had a good counselor who educated him.
• 19:11
  But what was the first thing he asked him when he came to Michigan?
• 19:14
  It wasn't him, I think it was a different counselor.
• 19:16
  Let's talk about your restitution.
• 19:18
  We got to get your money.
• 19:25
  And he told them that, and that was oh.
• 19:29
  Because every time you cannot leave the prison until you've paid your restitution.
• 19:37
  And how do you pay your restitution?
• 19:39
  You work.
• 19:39
  How much are you making?
• 19:41
  A dollar an hour.
• 19:43
  These end up, people end up staying in prison because they can't pay the restitution when the restitution may not even be an actual victim.
• 19:52
  Do you see what I'm saying?
• 19:52
  Here the problem is, the issue.
• 19:55
  It's it's much bigger than anything I can solve, that's for sure.
• 20:00
  But there's been progress.
• 20:04
  So when Donald Trump left, I say left, left in 2020, and Joe came in, a lot of that progress was stopped, was paused, and put on hold.
• 20:20
  But the good news, during those four years, there was a recognition that there was an issue with restitution.
• 20:30
  And not fines, not but restitution.
• 20:35
  So thankfully, over four years, there was some research done on the reality of what is happening to many innocent people who are unable to move on with their lives due to rest of the restitution.
• 20:58
  And that's what Tanya's going to speak about.
• 21:00
  To speak about.
• 21:01
  It's very important.
• 21:01
  It's very important.
• 21:02
  This is a non this political issue.
• 21:02
  This is a non political issue.
• 21:10
  Republicans and Democrats agree.
• 21:10
  Republicans and Democrats agree.
• 21:14
  The data, the research was done by the Democrats under the four years that they were in power.
• 21:14
  The data, the research was done by the Democrats under the four years that they were in power.
• 21:21
  And I cannot wait for Tanya to tell you about this.
• 21:21
  And I cannot wait for Tanya to tell you about this.
• 21:26
  And what do we do about it?
• 21:26
  And what do we do about it?
• 21:28
  How do we help her?
• 21:28
  How do we help her?
• 21:31
  You know, hearing Alice speak at John Jay College and how she wants to go out more and speak to more people and educate them.
• 21:39
  And and and she has a mission.
• 21:45
  A huge win for all of us.
• 21:47
  And even Alice said it doesn't matter about blue, red.
• 21:55
  She thanked Donald Trump.
• 21:57
  She thanked the Trump administration.
• 21:59
  She was so honored to be chosen the Pardon Czar when she, when Donald Trump was re-elected in 2024.
• 22:06
  And she takes that responsibility very seriously.
• 22:10
  More people want progress, more people want results.
• 22:12
  This is not an easy pro uh thing to do to get pardons, to get clemency.
• 22:18
  It goes through hundreds and hundreds of people.
• 22:21
  This is not a flip the switch kind of thing, especially under this administration.
• 22:25
  Every single pardon, every piece clemency, it's all going to be examined under the microscope.
• 22:32
  And I welcome it.
• 22:34
  Go for it.
• 22:35
  Okay.
• 22:37
  We should do with that with all the ones that Joe Biden autopenned.
• 22:41
  Maybe somebody will.
• 22:43
  A lot of people got out of prison that were dangerous people murderers, Chinese spies.
• 22:49
  I mean, really bad.
• 22:50
  It was really bad.
• 22:51
  By the autopen.
• 22:52
  Okay.
• 22:53
  So yeah, you're going to have a problem with a couple of Trump's pardons.
• 22:57
  Okay.
• 22:58
  Then let's go both sides, okay?
• 23:00
  But in the meantime, women, men, and we're going to talk a lot about the women, the women who are paying these restitutions, and unable to get certain benefits when they shouldn't be doing it.
• 23:17
  And where's the money going?
• 23:19
  Where is the black hole of the money and where does it go?
• 23:22
  And there's been rumors and where the money goes and who's actually using it.
• 23:26
  Are they using it?
• 23:28
  Is it sitting there?
• 23:29
  You know, I think we need to do more work on that because now that my husband's case has been expunged, we will get our fines back.
• 23:36
  We will get everything back that we paid to the court because of it was now the case has been moot, like it should never have happened.
• 23:48
  We have a $500,000 lien on our home.
• 23:53
  That will be lifted, finally, after six years.
• 24:01
  If we didn't have a home, if my brother-in-law didn't sign over his home also for bond, bail, whatever you want to call it, my husband would have been sitting in prison.
• 24:13
  An innocent man in some dingy cell in Brooklyn.
• 24:20
  They're just evil people.
• 24:22
  But it's just as bad when a person has served their time.
• 24:27
  We get it, and again, what we're not talking about rapists and murderers, and we're not talking about the worst of society.
• 24:33
  We're talking about either financial or again, a crime they had nothing to do with, but somehow, again, down the food chain, they get thrown into it and with no knowledge, but it doesn't matter.
• 24:49
  It doesn't matter.
• 24:50
  The courts rule, the courts rule, the courts rule.
• 24:52
  And then they rule and they hold it over you for the rest of your life.
• 24:59
  So I learned a lot about that in the last couple of months.
• 25:02
  I'm I really want to bring some advocacy to this issue.
• 25:06
  Uh we can't save everybody, but the people that should be made whole, you know, the math doesn't add up, as I say, and be able to move on with their lives should be.
• 25:18
  That's it.
• 25:18
  It's that simple.
• 25:19
  And I think there's a really easy solution to that.
• 25:22
  Very simple solution.
• 25:23
  Uh, and I've I've been brainstorming about it a bit, and and I want to talk to Tanya about that in our second half.
• 25:30
  Uh, thank you for joining us.
• 25:32
  Um, more to come.
• 25:33
  And I know you're gonna look forward to to uh hearing what Tanya has to say.
• 25:38
  And uh, I hope we can all help each other.
• 25:40
  See you in a bit.
• 25:41
  Have you been looking for a healthy snack for on the go?
• 25:45
  Well, not all energy bars are soft and sugary.
• 25:49
  Bear bars or a crunchy savory bar made from just six simple natural ingredients.
• 25:56
  Bear bars are plant-based, organic, gluten-free, contain six grams of protein and are low temperature dried for unique crunch.
• 26:05
  Most energy bars are based on chocolate or fruit and are held together with syrups or sweeteners.
• 26:12
  To learn more, just visit barebar.com slash out loud.
• 26:17
  One in three people will face cancer, and most never see it coming.
• 26:20
  I'm Dr.
• 26:20
  Kelly Victory with the wellness company, and I know this personally.
• 26:35
  That's why I formulated SHIELD, a two-part system designed to support immune health and antioxidant defense, a chemical-free cocoa mix and soft gels.
• 26:45
  Prevention is power.
• 26:46
  Visit TWC.
• 26:53
  We wouldn't go a day without washing our hands, brushing our teeth, and washing our nose.
• 26:57
  Well, wait, we wash our nose.
• 27:00
  Yes, the number one place where bacteria, viruses, and pollen enter the body is through the nose.
• 27:05
  So the average person breathes over 23,000 times a day.
• 27:08
  That's 23,000 opportunities for bacteria, viruses, and irritants to get into your nose and make you sick.
• 27:15
  For an extra layer of protection, wash your nose with clear.
• 27:19
  That is clear, X-L-E-A-R.
• 27:22
  Clear's drug-free nasal spray features xylitol, an ingredient proven to block adhesion of many nasty bacteria and viruses, and effectively clean, not just rinse like a saline, but wash your nose.
• 27:34
  Clear nasal spray quickly alleviates congestion, opens your airway, and ensures your body's natural defenses are strong.
• 27:42
  Read the research studies for yourself at clear.com.
• 27:45
  That's XLEAR.com.
• 27:47
  Protect yourself from the pathogens and junk you breathe.
• 27:50
  Pick up a bottle for you and your family today.
• 27:52
  In just two minutes per day, you can reclaim your health and vitality and cut your grocery bill in half with one simple convenient product.
• 28:00
  Product.
• 28:00
  Our doctor formulated green 85 juice formula's powerful dose of ultra-concentrated essential nutrients, stops hunger in its tracks, and supplies your cells with what's missing in the grocery store food.
• 28:00
  Our doctor formulated Green 85 juice formula's powerful dose of ultra concentrated essential nutrients stops hunger in its tracks and supplies your cells with what's missing in the grocery store food.
• 28:12
  It's packed with wheatgrass, corella, dandelion, moringa, spirulina, broccoli sprouts, osae berry, beetroot, probiotics, enzymes, vitamins A, D, K, B12, just to name a few.
• 28:12
  It's packed with wheatgrass, corella, dandelion, moringa, spirulina, broccoli sprouts, asaiberry, beetroot, probiotics, enzymes, vitamins A, D, K, B12, just to name a few.
• 28:24
  Go to chemicalfree body.com forward slash out loud today.
• 28:24
  Go to ChemicalfreeBody.com forward slash out loud today, get nature's super multivitamin Green 85, empower your immune system, cut down on your grocery bill, and save 20% on your first order.
• 28:28
  Get nature's super multiple.
• 28:37
  I'm Doug Evans, author of the sprout book.
• 28:39
  And I'm also a father with a three-year-old daughter.
• 28:43
  And that's why we grow sprouts.
• 28:46
  Did you know that you could take seeds, add water, and get fresh organic vegetables in three to five days without soil, sunshine, or fertilizer for under a dollar a serving?
• 28:58
  That's the miracle of sprouting.
• 29:00
  And I want to share that with you.
• 29:03
  Go to the sprouting company.com slash out loud and use the code out loud for a special offer.
• 29:11
  Feeling off since COVID?
• 29:12
  Try the wellness company Spike Detox Trio.
• 29:15
  Packed with natural kinase, bromaline, and turmeric to help boost your immune system and fight off harmful spike proteins.
• 29:21
  Bounce back with energy and clarity.
• 29:23
  Go to TWC.
• 29:31
  Well, I challenge you to find a broader array of great voices, a deeper bench of experience or a more dedicated collection of passionate patriots than here on America Outloud.
• 29:48
  Now is our time.
• 29:51
  America Outlaw dot news.
• 29:54
  Liberty.
• 29:55
  And justice for all.
• 30:18
  Upset.
• 30:19
  You'll be educated on something I didn't know anything about until it happened to me.
• 30:23
  And because of what happened to my family, the doors were open for me to hear other people's stories.
• 30:29
  And so Tanya, tell me a little bit about yourself and that story you just told me a minute ago.
• 30:37
  Hi, good evening, good afternoon, good morning.
• 30:42
  So our listeners.
• 30:44
  Yes.
• 30:44
  Um thank you so much for having me here today.
• 30:48
  Martha, you have been a God sent since we met a few months ago, and I just want to thank you for just embracing me, being empathetic, compassionate, and really giving me a chance to have this opportunity to share what I've been through over the last I would say 15 years.
• 31:12
  Wow.
• 31:15
  Back in 2008, there was an inquiry in the state of New York for about me and my attorney around a mortgage during that mortgage crisis, I would just say.
• 31:34
  Everybody was getting mortgages and yes, the housing craze, as they called it.
• 31:39
  Yes.
• 31:39
  I remember that.
• 31:40
  Um, my godfather, who I started with in 2002, was a retired New York City police detective.
• 31:50
  Him and a few other detectives and myself, we started my real estate uh development business.
• 32:01
  Um I had, while I was in college, I had fell into meeting people who was diagnosed with AIDS and they couldn't find housing.
• 32:09
  So fast forward 10, 12 years when I graduated, I met with my godfather.
• 32:15
  He was retiring from New York City police department, and I said, you know, we should help people that cannot get apartments in New York.
• 32:24
  We could have our own low-income housing that doesn't require people with credit checks.
• 32:31
  And so we started on purchasing properties.
• 32:35
  We met this, he met this attorney, and that's the attorney who ended up being my co-defendant in 2013.
• 32:43
  Um, we purchased properties, we fixed them up because my godfather was very handy, and I was handy, even though I'm a female, I'm very handy around construction and building cars.
• 32:56
  I believe it.
• 32:58
  Yeah, I can tell I can see it.
• 32:59
  You could get you get the job done for sure.
• 33:02
  Yes, whatever it is.
• 33:03
  I I can't decorate or anything like that.
• 33:06
  But if you ask me about things with a car and a house, I can tell you in a second.
• 33:11
  Um, I can walk into a building and tell you exactly what's going on in a house.
• 33:16
  Because I just failed them.
• 33:17
  Because we my family started purchasing properties in Brooklyn since the early since the 50s.
• 33:31
  I'm indicted in a mortgage, conspiracy, conspiracy to commit bank fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
• 33:41
  Uh I don't really know what's going on because I've never done a loan application or anything like that.
• 33:49
  And my family, we would just purchase us.
• 33:51
  We had an attorney, he would find a place, he would tell us how much we needed to put down.
• 33:57
  We would put it down, purchase the property, fix it up.
• 34:00
  We didn't take properties to sell to flip.
• 34:03
  We took, we brought properties to house people who couldn't otherwise find housing during that time.
• 34:12
  Later on, I'm indicted by the government, and fast forward, we had the first indictment in November and no in October, August, no, April 2012.
• 34:27
  Then there was a supersedent indictment in November.
• 34:32
  And then we had an S2 indictment in January of 2013.
• 34:37
  Then we had an S3 indictment, which was 2013 as well.
• 34:43
  Um, as you can see with all of those superseded indictments, we were call ourselves fighting the case.
• 34:52
  Yes.
• 34:53
  Um, there was one gentleman who we have the grand jury minutes that constantly went from the state, not even someone from the feds, someone from the state who was the chief inspector, investigator, would go to the grand jury and say that loans that I was the that I don't even know about paid.
• 35:00
  Went from the state, not even someone from the feds, someone from the state who was the chief inspector, investigator, would go to the grand jury and say that loans that I was that I don't even know about paid.
• 35:23
  And that's important for people to understand something.
• 35:23
  And that's important for people to understand something.
• 35:26
  You do not get getting grand jury minutes is very difficult.
• 35:26
  You do not get getting grand jury minutes is very difficult because they they don't want you to see the grand jury meet minutes because they usually make stuff up to get you indicted.
• 35:37
  And that's why the the same the you can indict a ham sandwich uh phrase came from because you don't need anything other than the one, it's one-sided.
• 35:46
  That's what it is to get people indicted.
• 35:48
  And when you talk about superseding indictments, that they had charges, it it becomes just overwhelming.
• 35:54
  Uh the stack, the deck, the deck is completely stacked against you in those circumstances.
• 35:59
  I get it.
• 36:01
  Yes.
• 36:02
  So as the deck became stacked, two things was happening.
• 36:07
  Trauma, stress, attorneys are receiving retainers, and not doing any work, and I'm changing attorneys while also these grand jury things are happening.
• 36:25
  So these two things happening.
• 36:27
  I'm losing all of my families, everything that we have ever saved for attorneys that show up one time, take money, disappear, treat me nasty.
• 36:39
  And then on the right hand, there is the government constantly superseding and saying about entities that number one, I wasn't a part of.
• 36:52
  Number two, the grand jury is being lied to because these entities that they are saying that are not paid have been paid years in advance.
• 37:06
  So now we come to my trial, just to speed up for time.
• 37:11
  I go to trial in July 2013.
• 37:16
  I am charged with defrauding three lenders, Washington Mutual, Fremont, and Long Beach, because they were FDIC insured.
• 37:32
  I am convicted of all three.
• 37:37
  All three of those lenders at that time for the loans that they presented in trial were already paid.
• 37:51
  And prior to the indictment, some of them were paid years in advance.
• 37:57
  And at the sentencing or prior to sentencing, I'm not even sure how this even works because I've never had an evidentiary hearing, the bank submitted documentation that there was no loss.
• 38:13
  Right.
• 38:14
  So just to be very clear, there is no loss.
• 38:19
  So here you go.
• 38:26
  And you get convicted.
• 38:28
  So what was the sentence?
• 38:31
  So I'm convicted of zero amount.
• 38:36
  So my attorneys at that time, which, as I previously stated, you know, they quit on you, they drop off on you.
• 38:44
  But like you're gonna get probation because the sentencing guidelines around financial crimes one be one would say it goes by money, and the three things that you were convicted of would be zero.
• 39:02
  So the most you would be looking at is probation for whatever this conspiracy charge is, whatever they've said, and I said, okay.
• 39:14
  Um we started looking at places I could volunteer, but that wasn't the case.
• 39:20
  When I got to sentencing, I was sentenced to 30 months.
• 39:33
  Because there was no figure at that time.
• 39:36
  So just hearing 30 months for being convicted of conspiracy and bank fraud when I knew that the entities that were at trial that was on my indictment, that the jury seen and heard had no loss at all, was confusing, but at least I understood the fact that I if no loss zero plus zero means zero.
• 40:04
  The embarrassment and shame my family we've already felt.
• 40:09
  Right.
• 40:10
  I never imagined in a million years, even if it was today, I would never imagine that four or five months later, I would be given a restitution for 2.5 million dollars and a forfeiture for 2.5 million dollars for entities that I wasn't convicted of, for entities that the jury never heard of, for entities that never submitted an inklum of loss.
• 40:43
  So what was the justification, even though it was wrong, what was the justification for that?
• 40:54
  What was what was how did they word it that you owe where did they come up with this number?
• 40:59
  I'm gonna I'm going to only speculate that they say relevant conduct, but I was a person that went to trial.
• 41:07
  Right.
• 41:09
  What is relevant than what the jury has heard?
• 41:14
  Exactly to say everything that you wanted to say and put in front of the jury.
• 41:22
  So I I don't I don't understand it.
• 41:25
  And then those entities that you put on my judgment, which are relevant conduct, which are not FDRC insured, which are not banks, which are not even entities that you know submitted a declaration of loss.
• 41:41
  You came up with these figures.
• 41:44
  That's right.
• 41:45
  That's and they do that out of thin air.
• 41:48
  And then that's on you now.
• 41:50
  And you can't can you know, we every single I would imagine everyone deserves an evidentiary hearing, meaning you when it comes to especially money, restitution, you should be able to fight that number.
• 42:00
  Hearing, meaning you when it comes to especially money, restitution, you should be able to fight that number.
• 42:06
  Now, I know someone right now who's on his second hearing regarding that restitution.
• 42:06
  Now, I know someone right now who's on his second hearing regarding that restitution.
• 42:13
  Now why what was your understanding?
• 42:13
  Now why what was your understanding?
• 42:17
  And you probably didn't know at the time that you could even do that.
• 42:17
  And you probably didn't know at the time that you could even do that.
• 42:21
  Like, what was your understanding about fighting that number at that time?
• 42:21
  Like what was your understanding about fighting that number at that time?
• 42:26
  I didn't understand it at all.
• 42:26
  I didn't understand it at all.
• 42:28
  Um, I wasn't even told.
• 42:28
  Um, I wasn't even told that I was entitled to evidentiary hearing.
• 42:34
  Um by time I learned about evidentiary hearing, I was in Danbury, federal prison, and I met a woman who her case, her attorneys had her co-defendant attorney had asked for an evidentiary hearing, and she was on a writ, meaning that she was being sent back to MDC in Brooklyn to have this evidentiary hearing.
• 43:03
  So that perked your your ears.
• 43:05
  You you you you said, okay, what is that?
• 43:08
  Investigated that, like, how is your I mean, you know, as we know, too too too well, when you're incarcerated, there's not, you know, you don't have um someone there helping you.
• 43:21
  It's very difficult to get an asset on your side.
• 43:24
  They're supposed to be there, they're supposed to be people that are supposed to be helping you guide you through these processes, but they're not they're not.
• 43:30
  That just doesn't have it's very rare.
• 43:32
  So what now again?
• 43:35
  This is 30 months of the 30 months.
• 43:37
  How long were you there?
• 43:39
  I stayed in Danbury 20 months.
• 43:42
  I served five months in the halfway house, two months on home confinement with an ankle monitor, 36 months on supervised release.
• 43:52
  Wow, a hundred be and I was on pretrial 39 months, a hundred and two months of justice involvement for something that I was convicted of, had no loss at all.
• 44:05
  And I'm still serving that sentence as we speak today.
• 44:09
  So that's where you have really been a trailblazer in bringing awareness all the way to I think the White House.
• 44:23
  I mean, I think you have definitely made waves and made inroads and done the hard work.
• 44:32
  But tell us a little bit about your organization, what those I I teased a little bit earlier about the four years.
• 44:41
  First, let's talk about the the first four years of the Trump administration regarding this issue.
• 44:46
  And I know Alice, I talked about Alice being pardoned, and then you know, kind of the first step back.
• 44:52
  Could you explain a little bit about what the first step act, the second chance, how it have how it is connected to your work and how under the last four years when Trump was not in office, what was going on that is very beneficial to what your cause is.
• 45:09
  Well, in 2021, uh I met a we we we came up with a group through the Ladies of Hope Ministry.
• 45:17
  Um and this was a remission, and this was Liz Hoyer.
• 45:22
  We met her as a group of women, 27 women who do not owe the money at all.
• 45:30
  And we had our proof, you know, we wanted to let the Biden administration know that hey, you know, you may have overlooked this, you may not have seen this, but these are a group of women that have bonded together, the first group of women that are saying, listen, could you hear our stories?
• 45:48
  We don't owe the money.
• 45:50
  Can you help us?
• 45:51
  Because we're serving a life sentence.
• 45:53
  From there, um, we began really this remission now campaign around, you know, ending the suffering for us 27 women.
• 46:06
  My organization also at the same time, life unbolted, started for individuals impacted by the feds.
• 46:16
  So simultaneously, I'm doing two things.
• 46:20
  And what we do is we raise awareness about people who are federally impacted, because what we what I found is that over the last four years, the federally impacted community has no power, has no position, has no voice, because it is assumed that the federally impacted community are just rich white men who got what's coming to them, Latinos who are drug dealers, and black people who are gun runners and drug dealers, and they all finally got what's coming to them, hurrah, hurrah, hurrah.
• 47:05
  Which is how much of a percentage of what's really going on, right?
• 47:10
  Yes.
• 47:11
  Now remember, rolling back the dice, 30 years plus ago, you took out education out of the federal system.
• 47:20
  So that means you've you steamrolled three million people over these 30-something years, three million individuals plus family members.
• 47:30
  So we're talking a great deal of people across the country with no education, with no access to education, knowing that 98% of those people were gonna come home, go back to their families.
• 47:43
  So you know, in 98% of the individuals that you are putting through this system are gonna return home to do what for their families.
• 47:54
  You're talking mothers, fathers, and now we are incarcerated in the federal level at a at a much older age.
• 48:04
  So now when you compile it with the mandatory victims restitution act of 1996, that puts a financial life sentence and burden on every individual that walk into the door without victims or any documentation.
• 48:22
  Look what we've created.
• 48:24
  We've created a third prison called debtor's prison.
• 48:27
  Yes.
• 48:28
  And tell us about the the work, the uh investigate, because that's this is very important.
• 48:33
  What was done under the Biden administration, the organization that investigated your your findings and what the result was because it's it's pretty incredible.
• 48:42
  So uh we partnered, I met with the uh the NACDO, the National Association for Criminal Defense Lawyers, um, shared with them my story, share with them the other women's story, and they hired a research team to research restitution.
• 49:00
  Team to research restitution.
• 49:03
  And in tw in September 2025, the research was unleashed around restitution.
• 49:03
  And in tw in September 2025, the research was unleashed around restitution, and it shows that 30% of the people who have restitution orders actually have no loss at all.
• 49:10
  And it shows that 30% of the people who have restitution orders actually have no loss at all.
• 49:16
  And what does that amount to amount as far as a number of people in our country approximately?
• 49:16
  And what does that amount to amount as far as a number of people in our country approximately?
• 49:21
  That's hundreds of thousands of people.
• 49:21
  That's hundreds of thousands of people.
• 49:27
  Hundreds of thousands of people who
• 49:27
  Hundreds of thousands of people who are paying into it and shouldn't be.
• 49:32
  And when it comes to the government, everybody knows, try getting them on the phone, try and get them to pay attention to fixing this problem.
• 49:43
  It doesn't happen.
• 49:44
  So the good news was it you were right.
• 49:48
  And the research came out under the Biden administration.
• 49:52
  And it's their, it's their, it's their work.
• 49:55
  And now with Trump back coming back and being a big proponent of not just prison reform, but also first step, second chance, you know, starting your life over, you have a great opportunity now.
• 50:10
  And Alice Johnson obviously speaking at your event, who was wonderful and has I believe she would be an advocate for this.
• 50:16
  I mean, this really does align with her work.
• 50:20
  What do you want to, as far as it's called to action for everyone listening?
• 50:26
  Because again, this is just scratching the surface of the issue.
• 50:31
  Can you first of all please tell everybody your website so that we don't forget that so people can hear more about the stories and your work and then give us some hope before we close out this half an hour about what's coming next, what your goals are, and how we can help.
• 50:49
  Well, the name of my organization is Life Unbolted.
• 50:53
  L-I-F-E UN B-O-LTED.org.
• 51:00
  Life unbolted, because that's what we want to be unbolted.
• 51:04
  We want to be unchained, unshackled.
• 51:08
  Um what we are really essentially looking in the call to action is for people who have restitution that have uh who never had their day in court as it pertains to restitution to come contact me.
• 51:26
  We want to share our stories because what happens is because we have been unwe have been we we're considered untapped.
• 51:37
  Because no one has had the courage to discuss money.
• 51:42
  Right.
• 51:43
  We discussed drugs in this country.
• 51:46
  We've discussed marijuana in this country.
• 51:49
  We have even had a movement around sex in this country, but we have never talked about money.
• 51:57
  No, and we and we don't know where the money is.
• 52:00
  This is the other thing.
• 52:01
  The cloak of mystery about where this money goes and the fact you told me, I brought up this same story about my my husband's the the the 11,000 dollars that that this number that the judge come came up with.
• 52:15
  Where does the money go?
• 52:17
  How is it who is actually the victim?
• 52:19
  Who's benefiting from this?
• 52:22
  And in your case, the the money that you've been putting in has there's never been, it's kind of been there.
• 52:28
  And how many years have you been paying into this now?
• 52:30
  I've been paying since 2015 since I was in prison because when you're in prison, if you don't pay your restitution, you are on FRP refusal, and that requires harsh treatment in prison.
• 52:45
  And you're not allowed to leave, basically, until you've paid something, correct?
• 52:50
  Well, yes, you don't get early halfway house, you don't go to commissary, you don't have access.
• 52:56
  It's so many don'ts if you don't, if you are on refusal.
• 53:01
  So I've been paying since 2015.
• 53:04
  I did receive an accountant.
• 53:06
  There has never been a disbursement in my case.
• 53:08
  Meaning not one nobody has taken drawn out of that money that you've been paying into uh for all this time because if there's a victim, the victim would benefit from the payment.
• 53:21
  And since there's no victim, there's all these theories about what happens to the money.
• 53:27
  And you know, I've told you that we're gonna find out and we're gonna do some due diligence on that, because I think that's important for the public to understand where it goes and how it's used or not used.
• 53:39
  And if people are criminals and they've committed crimes, and 20 million dollars goes into the coffers of the United States government to be used for programs, etc.
• 53:50
  Whatever, I I understand, okay, but this is not that.
• 53:54
  And we are going to be doing some some some good work.
• 53:58
  Uh we're gonna be continuing to knock on all the doors.
• 54:02
  I feel like we are in a great place with an administration who wants something like this, and we're gonna work together to bring awareness, and you're gonna hear more stories, obviously.
• 54:14
  And you know, I'd love to do one at one point a panel maybe with a lot of the women that you've been helping or their stories so that people can hear and understand more about what this is.
• 54:25
  And because when you don't know, you never know if you're gonna be in this situation.
• 54:28
  I'm sorry, you just don't know.
• 54:29
  You don't, you it could be your friend, it could be a family member, it could be you.
• 54:33
  And you know, we have to support first of all, innocent people and the government, the overreach of the government and the abuse of the government to not have any accountability for some of these actions.
• 54:46
  So we're working on it.
• 54:48
  One thing has to be made very clear.
• 54:51
  Restitution has only one job, and that is to make the victim whole.
• 54:58
  That is not to pay the government, they have other fines and fees for that.
• 55:01
  We're talking restitution.
• 55:03
  Restitution means one person dollar for dollar, not a dollar fifty, not interest, not fees, not penalties, not anything.
• 55:13
  It's just to put the victim back in the place that they were before the fraud happened.
• 55:18
  Exactly.
• 55:19
  Is what is not happening because no victim is standing up.
• 55:23
  The government is the custodian for this so-called victim.
• 55:28
  There's no proof, there's nothing that the debt exists.
• 55:32
  And that's what we are driving at the root of.
• 55:35
  If a person is owed money, we are the first people to believe that you should be paid.
• 55:40
  But there should be a conference, there should be a conversation about discussion.
• 55:45
  Do I actually owe the money?
• 55:47
  Did I actually cause harm?
• 55:49
  Were you actually harm the people that are on my judgment?
• 55:53
  And remember, this is post-conviction.
• 55:56
  So this is saying that with all parties and everything being adjudicated, this is factual, and that's the issue because it's not.
• 56:00
  Everything being adjudicated, this is factual, and that's the issue because it's not.
• 56:06
  Right.
• 56:06
  Right.
• 56:07
  And it's I wish I could say it's a one-off, but it's not.
• 56:07
  And it's I wish I could say it's a one-off, but it's not.
• 56:13
  And therein lies the bigger issue.
• 56:13
  And therein lies the bigger issue.
• 56:15
  You know, the government or anybody else, anybody who actually wants to make change, they need to see the broad stroke of how wide this net is for this issue.
• 56:15
  You know, the government or anybody else, anybody who actually wants to make change, they need to see the broad stroke of how wide this net is for this issue.
• 56:24
  And we're going to work hard to make sure people all the way up to the top know all about it.
• 56:24
  And we're gonna work hard to make sure people all the way up to the top know all about it.
• 56:30
  And I'm there with you to help anything, any way I can.
• 56:33
  So thank you for joining me today.
• 56:36
  Much more to come.
• 56:38
  God bless you, your family, and um yeah, God bless you for the work that you're doing, and thank you again for joining me today.
• 56:46
  Thank you.
• 56:47
  Okay.