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Killer Thriller: True crime stories we can’t stop watching · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is a little different and honestly one of
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: the most fun that we've done. Instead of focusing on
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: just one case, we are diving into the stories that
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: stick with us, the ones we can't stop thinking about,
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: can't stop recommending, and maybe can't stop watching even though
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: we probably should. We are talking true crime dramatizations and documentaries,
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: how they hit differently, what they get right, what they
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: leave out, and why some stories stay with you long
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: after they're over. And I'm so excited to do this
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: with someone who knows this space just as well as
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: I do. Killer Thriller docu host Jen Fessler. Jen, Welcome,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Donovan se Killer Thriller. Jen.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank you so very much. Hi.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Hi, I'm so happy to see you as.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I was so happy to see you, just in case
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: listeners care. Like we met at Jeff Lewis, it was
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: one of the best days.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, I will never forget that.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: With the shoot, we're going to get off topics so quickly,
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: but we're going to get back right back on it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: But I adored you from the me to get I
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: was like, why don't I know this person already?
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I felt this so but it's also I grew up
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: with you. You didn't know me by you. Oh my favorite. Okay, anyway,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: all right, we're going to try to stay on topic.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: So I want to start with my dramatization. Pick one
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: of mine is the Amanda Knox The Twisted Tail of Amandon.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Knox yep, and here is g why one.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: I think she herself is maybe one of the most
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: extraordinary people that I've ever spoken to at someone at length.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: I think she is really just an incredible human being.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: But the series itself really achieves all the things that
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I think are important. It's beautifully shot and beautifully created.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: It's like has a.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Very strong point of view from a storytelling perspective, but
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: it's also incredibly deep and nuanced into the actual crime
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: and the ins and outs of what this woman went through.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: I just think it's amazing. I'm blown away by it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was too.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I remember watching her and the boyfriend at the time,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: watching sort of like their connection, and then that being
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: so misconstrued.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Yes right, yes, being so terrorized.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Also when it was actually going down because we you know,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: we were I don't know what age, but adult enough,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: like when it was happening, Yes, to picture this poor
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: young girl just real It.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Felt like in watching it at the time, like none
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: of it made sense to me because it felt like, well, wait,
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: they're saying she did what? But then you're just seeing
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: a picture of this innocent looking girl.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Correct, I think that, Yes, I remember just thinking that girl,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: which I mean, now, after we've been doing this for
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: a while, I'm starting to think you never know or
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: never know because they could come in all different shapes
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and sizes.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: That's what my joys of doing killer thriller.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I just and and just feeling when I
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: watched the when I watched the docu drama looking just
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: thinking about her mom.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: That was just that.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I mean I have a twenty three year old daughter
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: now and a twenty almost twenty six year old son,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: and that it was just so horrifying.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Oh as a parent, it's like the one imaginable.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: All right, Now, I have a fun one. When I
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: say a fun one, listeners, please forgive me. This really
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be fun, but it can't be helped. So did
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: you see the act with Patricia Arquette about oh oh,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I bet you did. Maybe with Patricia Arcaut about munch House,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: munch Housends, Gypsy Rose Blanchard and you didn't see this?
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: No? How have I not seen this? When did this
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: come out?
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: With Patricia Arcat can't I don't remember the year, but
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: not that long ago ago, but not that many and
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: her little girl she has munch Hower, munch Houses, yes, thousands,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: munch Housings, right, And so it's about they, you know,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: they move into this neighborhood and the girl is in
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: a wheelchair and she really you know.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Yes you remember this, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: this came out in twenty nineteen, yes, okay.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: So it is so sick and you see Patricia Arquette
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: like taking her to these these different like trade shows
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: and trying to get her like she was, yes, and
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: she was like sick, she.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: Was a crazy.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: She's like poisoning the child and making these and then
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: one point she like ties are to the bed and
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: this and the gypsy Rose girl talks in that weird voice,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I mean the weird voice. Yes, I mean, yes, we
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: know her now she's out of prison and you hear
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: her and she had that weird little girl voice.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: It was so freaking creepy.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: This is so creepy, so creepy, and then she kills
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: the mother. I mean, it's like, how do you I
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: that one in particular Munchausen's yeah is I don't know.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: I feel like I say this about everything, like it
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: is particularly sick. But I think because perhaps it's the
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: one that I could not identify with in terms of
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: having that. But as a parent, it's so specific that
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: it's a maternal thing, that it's a mother to daughter
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: most of.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: The time, A hundred a hundred forsake me right out
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the front door, like you when.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: At first, but that word, because that word wasn't always around,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: It wasn't just like Yolanda hadid. That was the beginning
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: when I started learning about what it was. Yes, And
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I remember taking my son in particular because he was
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: my firstborn, to the doctor all the time because I
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: was so scared and he had a feb and I
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: was they're gonna think I have the muncha munch of these,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: but they're gonna have me arrested.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: For then they're gonna think I have the munchies.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, all right, you go.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, my next dramatization Murdoch Death in the Family with
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Patricia Arquette.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Yes, Patricia, I love it.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: So this is the thing that series is again does
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: the same thing in a different way to me, that like,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: this is what I'm looking for when in watching these things,
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: because it isn't just like a sick fascination with the
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: crime per se. To me, it's really about the humanization
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: of these people and how do we get from A
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: to Z and all of the fallout for the family
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: members and all these things. And this series, the performances
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: are out of this world. Everyone Jason Clark, Patricia Arquette,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Jay Smith, Cameron and all of the children. It's like
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: they're so so good and it's so nuanced, and it
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: really just it's like the unfolding of a of a
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: madman and how you can be so And it's about
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: wealth and privilege and drugs and it has everything.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Yep, you know, we watched this, so I have it
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: on my list too, but we because we watched it.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: We went to veil this past winter break Christmas break,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and although my kids are twenty three, I guess it
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't exist anymore. This past winter we all went to
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: veil as a family and it didn't snow. It was
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: the first time record highs. Of course, it's my family,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: and so we had we're in this like you know lodge,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: like you know wood lodge, and we so for fun,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: we sat around and watched this and there were I
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: don't know how many episodes, but the whole family watched it.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: So this will always have a very special place in
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: my heart.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: It was a family viewing.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: It was it was a family affair.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I just and thinking about Patricia Arquette in the act
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: versus this versus what was it called death in the family? Right,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: so different, so just like perfect southern wife, and she
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: was so devoted and and remember when they he took
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: them all away on vacation and this was towards you
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: and it.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: Was so and that like gluttonous sort of like the
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: drinking and the hurricane thing, and just like in the pool,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: his just he's like a monstrosity who just does not
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: has no morals and no kind of and you know
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: what I thought was interesting also about Patrici Arquette.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: When I interviewed Manny Mattney and Liz Ferrell.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: They said that that show the series was greenlit on
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Patricia's name, not even on Jason Clark, and that just
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: like warmed my heart because you know, a lot of
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: these things get made because of men, right of course,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: and it was Patricia Arquette.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: So I love that as they say that he they
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: say that he, and I didn't know his name is
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Jason Clark, so that he really he was the he
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: was Murdoch like to a TV embodied And I remember
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: watching the trial a little bit, but I didn't, but
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: still it was spooky in the hair of the boys
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: and the whole thing.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, you pick a drama.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I loved the girl from Plainville. Did you see that one?
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: No?
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: About Oh my god? So this girl, uh has this boyfriend.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: She's kind of like a weird girl. I don't remember.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: She actually moved to a new community, but she didn't
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: have a lot of friends. She was always kind of
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: a try hard. I hate that expression, but I think
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: that's how the other girls felt about her.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: My daughters now they call it a pick me. That's
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: what my daughter calls it. I'm well, let's just not
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: use any of this, any of these chases.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, horrible, but yes, So there's this girl Michelle Carter.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: She's in high school. I guess she moved to I
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: think she went to a new town.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Very hard time, adorable girl, hard time making friends for
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: whatever reason, never got the attention she wanted. And meets
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: a boy, and a very sweet boy named Conrad, and
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: he is troubled, you know. They get into this relationship,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of texting, going back and forth, and basically
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: he's suicidal and it turns out that she has been
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: encouraging him to kill himself. And it's completely unbelievably upsetting,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: like just do what Conrad. Do what Conrad, I don't
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: remember exactly, turn on the car, drink the poison.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: It's crazy.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: And she ends up she ends up going to trial,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: and I believe she was convicted, but this one just
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: absolutely creeped me out. And then after he died, she
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: like wanted all this attention and so she did, like
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: she threw like softball games in his honor and got
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: to know his mother, and the mother was like, wait,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: who are you?
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: And her parents were like Conrad, who?
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: And she was trying to evoke sympathy from all of
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: her friends and putting these posts up and I love
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: you and I miss you and I don't know, it
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: was beyond beyond creepy. I remember it, yeah, And then
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: she when it's time for her to go into court.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I think she was a blonde when it happened, and
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: then I think she like dyed her hair when she
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: went into court with these dark eyebrows.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: Do you remember this?
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Yes? I do.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: But it's also reminding me of how the Death of
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: a Cheerleader movie, which is about the girl who murdered
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: her classmate on the doorstep over she you know, they
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: didn't know that it was her for many, many months,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: and she took those months to sort of develop her
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: popularity at the school, like, to get to achieve the
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: things that she wanted to and to sort of normalize
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: herself in the community.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: It's like diabolical.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Diataminal and their kids, and that's what's so yes, hey,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: I mean they. I mean I've now just watched a
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: lot of documentaries and docu dramas with that starts they
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: start with kids. But anyway, okay, okay, my third drama.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: This was a toss up for me between the I
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Am Elizabeth Smart movie because I just I think she's
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: another one that is extraordinary and it's so arresting to
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: see her talk to the camera about her experience and
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: like to stop you when you're having these feelings like
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: oh God, I don't want to see what's next, and
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: then she comes on and says, you don't want to
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: see what's next, do you?
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: And you're like blown away.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: But as a full the one that we just I
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: can't stop talking about or watching the people versus OJ
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: that series again does all the things for me. It
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: checks all the boxes. It's compelling, it's incredibly well made.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: It shows the nuances of the case itself and all
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: of the people in it.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Except my My only problem with this one.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Is that I really wish they had given Nicole more
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: of a presence. And she obviously is not alive during
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: you know, the course of what this covers, but I
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: still feel like they could have given her family more coverage,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: more talk about her.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: That's my only complaint with that.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: So certain they certainly deserved it.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: But it's sometimes when I watch these docudramas and documentaries,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: but it's weird because right that happened, So let see
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: if I was picturing that that happened around nineteen fourteen,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: ninety four. Okay, But like I remember watching it in
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: real time. I remember when he was acquitted. I was
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: a talent agent at the time, working like in the
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: big TV room with everyone, and it was very bizarre.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: It was so and so watching it like this, What.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Was the response?
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Because I remember too, I was shooting something at the
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: old ABC studios that was primarily news, but we were
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: shooting a TV movie there and everybody stopped, the whole
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: crew and it was racially divided, and people about.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: You say that that's how it was, honestly, isn't that
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: so interesting?
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Yep?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Yep?
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: All right, So, speaking of uh, sort of real stories,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: let's talk about some documentaries.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: I feel like I love both.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Documentaries are just I don't even actually don't even know
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: which are freaky are But anyway, there's a lot of
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of freaky ones. So, uh, have you seen
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: American Murder with about Scott Peterson?
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Yep?
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: And Lacy and assured, Damn, I cannot.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: I don't even know what to say.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: I'm interviewing Mark. I'll say this, I'm interviewing Mark erra
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Goes tomorrow.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: You are, yes, I am, honey, I'm to be listening
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: to that and I cannot wait.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: But that.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: What really really broke my heart about that one was
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: her friends.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, became such a beautiful job, bringing her
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: friends so beautiful.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: I loved, loved, loved watching that.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Also like getting to see Amber in it and the
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: way like her whole and realizing how brave she actually.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, this is another thing where the press, you know,
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: presents one image and story of a person, and if
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: you don't play enough attention, you think like, oh, she's some.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: You know, hooker lady.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And affair with her so automatically you were like she's
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: a villain. And meanwhile, you know she was played and
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: she rose up.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: And she's like heartbroken.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: She loved this man, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's heartbreaking.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, I I mean there are so very many.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: I recently watched the new Elizabeth Smart. It's called Kidnapped
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Smart, and I think one of the reasons that
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I love this one so much is because it's incredibly
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: raw and authentic, and you see that this person has
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: survived and thrive right, and she has a voice, and
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: she is strong and she is living a beautiful life,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: and that is a hopeful ending to a truly unimaginable
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: Her story is despicable beyond description, but she went unbearable.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: Agreed. Agreed.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so there's one. So now that I've
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: been doing this pod, I've fallen in love with so
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: many different people and directors and producers and actual people
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: that have been through. But sky Borgmann is somebody that
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I got. I had the absolute pleasure of interviewing. And
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: so she I watched another one that she did, not
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: the one that I was interviewing about Sins of our Mother,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: about Lori Valay. Yes, so, okay, so you remember because
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: that was more reason. I feel like that just happened
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: a few years ago, right, Yeah, I think so, Yes, Yes,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: was she killed her kids, She killed two of her kids,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: and she was like very she was sort of indoctrinated.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I want to say they were lds, but it was
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: like a certain level of it. It was so now, Yes,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: she was this beautiful blonde she went through. She had
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: this family this they had her mother on it, who
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: seemed very brave and actually very lovely, and they had
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: he was from Ireland. The husband's from Ireland, and they
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: had his sister and his father. Anyway, it was there
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: was so much love from like the aunts and the
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: uncles and the older brother who was not killed, but
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Lori Valo was became a crazy person and she ended up,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: you know, killing one of them. Was adopted the son
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: and kind of an older daughter who was around sixteen.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: And the sorrow that she just left behind, right, but
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: not just the sorrow, like the anger and how could
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: she do it, but also watching her mom who still
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: tries to love her, you know, through it, which is
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: which is it's just brutal, but you see her when
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: it starts out. Yeah, she was okay, Yeah, she was
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: and then she got right and then she became an
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: extremist with this guy that was crazy extremist and.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: He had a wife who he killed.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: It was all fed up and they believed that like
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: people could.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Be be zombies.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: She thought that her daughter was a zombie. It was
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: so whack a doodle do. And yeah, she but she
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: at the beginning you like her when you're hearing the
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: story because well, you don't like her because you know
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: what happens, but you are watching she like took. She
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: had a bunch of different husbands and one was sexually
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: abusive to her son, and she picked up her son
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and I believe her daughter at the time, moved them
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: right out of that house, left right.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: Married this guy.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Who was actually I thought, very good looking and charming
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: if I'm being honest.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: And sometimes they are, sometimes they are.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: No, he was, he was actually like he wasn't a
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: bad guy. He was the one he got They killed him,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: do they kill him?
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: He died?
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: It was a mess. Yeah, all right, all right, you go,
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: all right.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: John Wayne Gacy, Devil in Disguise, I don't know that one, okay,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: So it is about John Wayne Gacy, who was, you know,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: dubbed the clown Killer, which really was just he was
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: a that didn't really have anything to do with him
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: being a serial killer, but he from time to time
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: would dress up as a clown and do kids parties
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: and parades.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: You should always know somebody that's dressing up in clowns.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you got clowns, you know, in paintings around
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: your house, bananas?
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: So he what is so?
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: So I'm also where there is there's a dramatization a
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: series on Peacock that's called Devil in Disguise John Wayne Gacy.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: This is John Wayne Gate which that the the Nare narrative,
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: which spoiler, I'm going to interview someone from that series
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: as well. That focuses more on the victims. But the
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: doc it is really about him. And you see this
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: man who is in some way charismatic to some people,
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: but he is he He had a lot of political
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: positions around in Chicago and in Illinois, and he was
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: like an upstanding member of the community.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: He was married twice.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: The kicker, the catch, Oh, he was arrested for sodomizing
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: a young boy years before he killed anyone. But because
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: back then they made it seem like, oh, that's just
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: homosexual for play, So he didn't like that that's what
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: homosexuals do. And he flips everything. You see this man
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: like talk about a narciss I know so many of
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: these cases and these these villains are truly narcissists. Yes,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: when he is confessing, he's saying, but this isn't my fault,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: this is self defense, right, and he gives these explanations fault,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: it's never his fault. And you see the the the
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: interrogators like, so explain to me how this is not
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: He's like, well, I had to stop him from It's
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: like right, or he was there.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Yep, he stead he was.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: And this man just abused these boys so horrifically and
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: then killed them and buried them in the crawl space
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: underneath his home.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: Oh god, you see.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: This is the thing sometimes is, especially with the documentaries
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: as opposed to docu dramas.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: Two things.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Number one, there is there is something very vindicating when
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: you see the end and you see them in court.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: Yes, and the real person.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, I know that I should be more involved
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: than this, but get the in jail and all. There
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: is something more sort of frightening and terrorizing seeing the
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: actual fuel. But anyway, So but speaking of narcissists, so
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: a deadly American marriage. So that is a crazy documentary.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: So it's about John and Molly Corbett. John Corbett ultimately
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: although people the jury, well the jury's on out. Molly
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: went to jail. But but then she got out of
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: jail her and her father killed John Corbett. Molly was
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: an American girl who wanted to be an o par
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: in Ireland. John's wife had died, this wonderful woman, Mags,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: and so she moves to Ireland and to take care
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: of these two children. It turns out she had had
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: a miscarriage. She was, you know, dying for kids. She
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: takes these kids on. They moved back to America and
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Molly and her father one night kill John and yeah,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: and they they claimed self defense. But the marriage was
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: starting to come apart and she wanted to be able
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: to adopt the kids and he was not allowing her
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: to adopt. She thought he was going to take the
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: kids and move back to Ireland.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: But you see these kids.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: So right, So the kids are a big part of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: the documentary and they are amazing. Oh my god, it
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: is these kids are You just can't believe that they
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: survived what they survived, so losing their mother and then
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: losing their father, but they had this wonderful family in Ireland,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: specifically their aunt.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do they go back to the family.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: They ended up back in Ireland with their family and
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: she so Molly and her father go to jail, but
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: they get out of jail. So they are And I
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: think that some people do believe that it was self defense.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: I do not believe that.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: And the kids, it turns out, were they were programmed
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: by her to as soon as it happened say things
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: to They were interviewed to the police, like, my father
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: always hit my mother and my father, And they come
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: back these years later and they say she made us
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: say that those were lies. We never saw him ever
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: ever else.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're kidding.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: No.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: So the part of that was there was so gross.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: They like they bashed his head in the father and
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Molly and there was like big pieces of skull on
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the floor. Again a documentary, so you see, it's just awful, awful, horrible.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: But she's out of jail now. The kids, I believe
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: are in Ireland. It's heartbreaking.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Why is she out of jail? How is that possible?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Because I don't remember exactly, but there was a technicality somewhere.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly what it was, but she I
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: don't know if her and her father got released. And
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: these kids were are were are completely devastated. And you
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: see the boy in it specifically, they both they both
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: broke my heart. He's crying about his father and they
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: loved their father and they had already lost their mother.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: And she the whole time is like referring to herself
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: as she'd always say, my kids and as a mom,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: and they weren't her kids right right, she was the
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: lot like before she went to Ilan when she got
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: married to they ended up getting married and she lied
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: to everyone about how they met.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: She's I don't know, she was a sick.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: But anyways, I mean the other thing, all of these
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: things have really revealed so many of the flaws, and
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: not only our legal system but also in the investigative
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: portions of things. And not to throw shade on anybody,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: but it really does reveal how imperfect those institutions are
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: and it's pretty upsetting. So Jen, We're going to do
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: this again, like hopefully super often because it's great. And
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: then let's do it in person because I yes, and
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: I can hug you. And so Jen, as we all know,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: hosts the Killer Thriller doc You podcast right here on
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: iHeart and.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Love it. Can't wait to do this again. It's always
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: so weird to say this was fun, right, I know,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: I know, killing and murder woohoo.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, right, yeah, it's you know. How are you sleeping?
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: One last quick question? Are you sleeping okay at night?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: No?
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: I'm not thank you for asking.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I liked, I like watching these, but now
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: that I'm doing it on a regular yeah, yeah, I
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: don't think my husband feels.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Safe, welcome to the world. That's what.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: I like it. There's something wrong with me, I know.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: Bye my life.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I love you, Thank you, Okay, I love you, honey.
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: Bye bye.