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It's go time! Wetherholt is here! The good and bad of what lies ahead! · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:11
Speaker 1: I'm Jim Hayes and this is a media day. No
0:13
Speaker 1: professional former professional athletes of any sort. It's media and
0:18
Speaker 1: we have two good ones. We have Jeff Jones of
0:20
Speaker 1: the Belleville News Democrat, Lynn Worthy of the Post Dispatch,
0:24
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, what we do on this show is we
0:29
Speaker 1: start by trying to sell something. So if you're watching
0:32
Speaker 1: at home and you like Cardinal Territory, then go ahead
0:36
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0:42
Speaker 1: we got hats, the whole walla wax. So if you
0:44
Speaker 1: like this stuff, go ahead and buy something. You can
0:48
Speaker 1: do it at the Cardinal Territory shop dot com. That's
0:53
Speaker 1: if you want to buy something. All right, gentlemen, opening
0:56
Speaker 1: day is almost upon us. Right, you have read best
1:01
Speaker 1: opening name in baseball. I really do believe that. But different.
1:05
Speaker 2: Look.
1:05
Speaker 1: You can call it a reset, you can call it
1:08
Speaker 1: a rebuild. You can call it a tear denim, which
1:10
Speaker 1: is what lance Lynn likes to call it. The question
1:13
Speaker 1: is what will we see this year? And Jeff, I
1:16
Speaker 1: will start with you.
1:18
Speaker 3: I think what you will see is a team that
1:20
Speaker 3: is going to perform a little bit uneven. Right, you
1:22
Speaker 3: have a team that's got a lot of young guys
1:24
Speaker 3: on it, a team that doesn't have a single player
1:26
Speaker 3: on the roster who's got a hundred career Big league homers,
1:28
Speaker 3: a rotation where you have some guys trying to establish
1:31
Speaker 3: themselves and some guys trying to re establish themselves. I
1:34
Speaker 3: think you'll definitely see some high points, still have some
1:37
Speaker 3: stretches where they look like an exciting young team that
1:40
Speaker 3: maybe can turn the corner a little bit. And then
1:43
Speaker 3: we're going to see what happens when it gets into June, July, August,
1:45
Speaker 3: and the season gets long and the injuries start to
1:47
Speaker 3: pile up. There will definitely be things to see that
1:50
Speaker 3: will be exciting and that will be worth watching. And
1:53
Speaker 3: there are also probably gonna be some moments that people
1:55
Speaker 3: are gonna have to grit their teeth and kind of
1:56
Speaker 3: muscle through to enjoy everything else going on around it.
2:00
Speaker 1: So then what does success success for the Cardinals look like?
2:04
Speaker 1: Right they're developing. You want to see improvement, obviously, but
2:09
Speaker 1: you got to win some games in there to keep
2:11
Speaker 1: the fans interested. I always say I think two words
2:16
Speaker 1: described this year. Fans want to see energy and improvement.
2:19
Speaker 1: How do you look at it?
2:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, energy improvement is definitely one thing that you'll look for.
2:24
Speaker 4: I just don't know how much that's going to translate
2:26
Speaker 4: into win total. And I'm I mean, for me, that's
2:30
Speaker 4: not really something I'm worried about. I mean, I think
2:32
Speaker 4: success this season is going to be answering questions that
2:35
Speaker 4: have been sort of lingering out there, or finding out
2:37
Speaker 4: who you're going forward with. Success isn't finishing in a
2:41
Speaker 4: certain place in the division. Success is finding out if
2:44
Speaker 4: you know, Nolan Gorman's a guy going forward, finding out
2:46
Speaker 4: what you got with Jordan Walker, finding out you know,
2:50
Speaker 4: is JJ Weatherhole you know, maybe a potential leadoff guy
2:53
Speaker 4: for you guys for the team going forward? Finding out
2:56
Speaker 4: if you know the pitching that you brought in these
2:58
Speaker 4: guys that you're going to have for next couple years
3:00
Speaker 4: and be starters, and do you just fill in that? So,
3:02
Speaker 4: I mean, answering questions, can Evon Herrera be a catcher?
3:06
Speaker 4: Is he going to be the hitter that you think
3:07
Speaker 4: he can be? That's going to be success win total.
3:10
Speaker 4: I mean, it's I think that they've tried to tell
3:13
Speaker 4: you without coming out and saying it that the wind
3:16
Speaker 4: total is not going to be what they're judging success
3:18
Speaker 4: on this season. I mean, yeah, they'll tell you that.
3:20
Speaker 4: You know, you're you're not conceding anything, but I don't
3:24
Speaker 4: know about that.
3:26
Speaker 1: Well, there's plenty of questions, so we understand that. So
3:29
Speaker 1: let's talk about the two biggest question marks. I think
3:32
Speaker 1: we would agree that it's Gorman and Walker. So let's
3:36
Speaker 1: start with Walker had a pretty good spring, showed a
3:38
Speaker 1: little pop. Tell me he's a guy who is just
3:42
Speaker 1: trying to follow the process, being more selective at what
3:45
Speaker 1: he offers that. Jeff, your take on if Gorman will
3:49
Speaker 1: get some traction this year and find it again because
3:52
Speaker 1: we've seen him hit a lot of homers.
3:54
Speaker 2: In the past.
3:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think with Gorman, the key is going to
3:58
Speaker 3: be getting him to a point where where he sort
4:00
Speaker 3: of shortened those intervals between hot streaks.
4:03
Speaker 2: Right.
4:03
Speaker 3: You know, we know a lot about what he is
4:05
Speaker 3: in terms of a hit and profile is there's a
4:07
Speaker 3: lot of power, there's a lot of swing and miss.
4:09
Speaker 2: That's the guy that he is.
4:10
Speaker 3: They can do a little bit to maybe kind of
4:11
Speaker 3: try to cut the bad rates there, but this is
4:13
Speaker 3: the sort of player that he is, and so you know,
4:16
Speaker 3: a guy like that will go and fits and starts,
4:18
Speaker 3: and I think Nolan Gorman over his career has been
4:20
Speaker 3: a guy who has been white hot for ten days,
4:23
Speaker 3: two weeks at the time, and then maybe disappears for
4:27
Speaker 3: three weeks a month something like that.
4:28
Speaker 2: So if you're the.
4:29
Speaker 3: Cardinals, the goal needs to be getting him to a
4:32
Speaker 3: place where those intervals get a little shorter between the
4:34
Speaker 3: times when he's really producing, and also making sure that
4:37
Speaker 3: he's in a place physically to stay on the field.
4:39
Speaker 3: You know, he he did not play in the exhibition
4:42
Speaker 3: game in Springfield on Monday night, and after the game,
4:44
Speaker 3: Ali Marmle was you know, he was very clear that
4:46
Speaker 3: it was not a real concern, but all the same
4:49
Speaker 3: said that Gorman had some tightness in his lower half.
4:52
Speaker 3: Was the phrasing that he used that kept them out
4:54
Speaker 3: of that game. It was cool in Springfield on Monday night,
4:56
Speaker 3: so they didn't want to take any chances. But that
4:58
Speaker 3: already being just even a little bit in the water
5:01
Speaker 3: before we even get to opening day. As a reminder
5:04
Speaker 3: that he has had some of these bumps and bruises
5:06
Speaker 3: and knicks over the years that have made it hard
5:09
Speaker 3: for him to get to where he needs to go,
5:11
Speaker 3: and that's worth keeping an eye.
5:12
Speaker 1: On to questions Lynn, right, can he not disappear for him?
5:17
Speaker 1: Jeff late out also the tightness, the back issues, whatever
5:21
Speaker 1: he's had to deal with him. Can he take that
5:24
Speaker 1: step forward and find some consistency?
5:27
Speaker 5: I think so.
5:28
Speaker 4: I mean, I think just hearing him talk about some
5:31
Speaker 4: of the swing adjustments he's made, I think he really
5:34
Speaker 4: feels confident about where he's.
5:36
Speaker 5: At with that.
5:37
Speaker 4: It seems like he's he's got himself in a place
5:40
Speaker 4: where he's able to, you know, maybe limit some of
5:43
Speaker 4: that swing and miss or at least have better swings
5:45
Speaker 4: more consistently. And if he's able to do that, then
5:48
Speaker 4: you'd like to think that what follows from that is
5:50
Speaker 4: he has more consistent than bats. He doesn't have his
5:53
Speaker 4: made long stretches where you know, he has a month
5:55
Speaker 4: where he looks hot, it has a month where it's like, oh,
5:57
Speaker 4: I don't know if this is going to work. So
6:00
Speaker 4: I think that he can iron that out. But we
6:04
Speaker 4: don't really know, And I mean, at least we know
6:05
Speaker 4: he's going to get the time to show that on
6:08
Speaker 4: a daily basis.
6:09
Speaker 1: Now I could take some of the stress of now,
6:13
Speaker 1: Jordan Walker is another question. He finished up with a
6:16
Speaker 1: good game. We've seen him do it at the major
6:19
Speaker 1: league level. To hear some guys tell the story, the
6:23
Speaker 1: league has adjusted to Jordan and he hasn't adjusted back. Certainly,
6:27
Speaker 1: he's working hard at it. Jeff, what do you think
6:29
Speaker 1: the Cardinals can find in Jordan Walker and whether or
6:34
Speaker 1: not he can find what he wants.
6:37
Speaker 3: You know, it's so interesting because when you watch Jordan
6:41
Speaker 3: kind of go through the process, and you watch all
6:43
Speaker 3: the work he's putting in, and you watch all the
6:44
Speaker 3: way they handled him, there's really nothing they haven't tried. Right,
6:48
Speaker 3: They've tried kind of being publicly tough on him. They've
6:51
Speaker 3: kind they've tried being very kind about it publicly. They've
6:55
Speaker 3: tried taking him out of the lineup for a couple
6:56
Speaker 3: of days and getting him back in the lab.
6:57
Speaker 2: They've tried going up and down to the minors.
7:00
Speaker 3: You know, we had the thing last year where we
7:01
Speaker 3: had the dubiously long rehab assignment where he was at
7:04
Speaker 3: Springfield working with Casey Chennawi, who, by the way, is
7:07
Speaker 3: now on the big league coaching staff in no small
7:10
Speaker 3: part because he has had some success with working with
7:13
Speaker 3: some of these guys, So at this point it's really
7:15
Speaker 3: hard to say what else they can do more than
7:18
Speaker 3: they haven't already done it, already tried, and it's going
7:21
Speaker 3: to be incumbent Von Jordan to contribute and to figure
7:24
Speaker 3: it out and to look like, you know, if not
7:27
Speaker 3: look like the guy who was a top five prospect
7:29
Speaker 3: in baseball or a top prospect in baseball, I guess
7:31
Speaker 3: for a short period of time, to at least look
7:33
Speaker 3: like a guy who can be a productive big league
7:36
Speaker 3: hit or a guy who can hit fifth or six
7:37
Speaker 3: in a major league line up and not hurt you.
7:40
Speaker 3: I think he has improved a little bit defensively, at
7:44
Speaker 3: least enough to where he's not like, you're not cringing
7:46
Speaker 3: every time a ball goes in his direction and right field,
7:48
Speaker 3: you know, the arm is very strong. There are obviously
7:51
Speaker 3: parts about the game that are good. It's just the
7:54
Speaker 3: swing decisions have to get better. For all the conversation
7:57
Speaker 3: about the mechanics of the swing and what he needs
7:59
Speaker 3: to do to lift the ball and the work to
8:01
Speaker 3: get over the winter at drive line, he's got to
8:03
Speaker 3: swing at better pitches. Some of that is a little
8:05
Speaker 3: bit of a catch twenty two because He's not gonna
8:07
Speaker 3: get better pitches until he refuses to swing at some
8:10
Speaker 3: of the bad ones. You know, is there a universe
8:12
Speaker 3: where maybe the ABS is good for Jordan Walker because
8:15
Speaker 3: he doesn't feel like he has to be quite so
8:17
Speaker 3: aggressive on that stuff on the outside corner. Maybe I
8:20
Speaker 3: guess that's a possible way that this could go. But
8:22
Speaker 3: it's gonna come down to Jordan and performance or not.
8:25
Speaker 3: It's been a couple of years now with process. Now
8:28
Speaker 3: it's got to be performance now.
8:30
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm on an island with this, Lynn, but I
8:32
Speaker 1: recall last year after Jordan was at Double A working
8:35
Speaker 1: with their hitting coach, Jeff points out now with the
8:39
Speaker 1: major league staff, and Jordan went on a bit of
8:43
Speaker 1: a hot streak after that and told me that what
8:46
Speaker 1: they worked on was just simplifying a swing. Get rid
8:49
Speaker 1: of the excess movement. Anything that's not moving his body
8:52
Speaker 1: toward the ball is gone. And he had success and
8:56
Speaker 1: it went away.
8:57
Speaker 2: What happened?
9:00
Speaker 4: No, I think he's got a point out where confidence
9:02
Speaker 4: is really huge for him. Like if when he goes
9:04
Speaker 4: up there with the sort of confidence of a guy
9:06
Speaker 4: who you know, who's had success, who's who's proven that
9:10
Speaker 4: he can compete at this level, then I think, you know,
9:14
Speaker 4: he doesn't get caught in between. I think when he
9:16
Speaker 4: gets caught in between, when when he's you know, when
9:18
Speaker 4: he's looking for certain things, but he's just sort of
9:20
Speaker 4: not entirely invested in, you know, the decisions he's making
9:24
Speaker 4: at the plate, then it's just it's it's trouble. It's
9:26
Speaker 4: just trouble all around. I mean, you know, Jeff talked
9:28
Speaker 4: about the abs. It was it reminded me of that
9:31
Speaker 4: last beat that we saw in Florida, or not the
9:34
Speaker 4: last of bat, but the last day in Florida where
9:36
Speaker 4: he had I believe it was a three to two
9:38
Speaker 4: pitch that was called a strike on the outside. He
9:40
Speaker 4: challenges it, it was off the plate, and then the
9:42
Speaker 4: guy has to come back in and then he hits
9:44
Speaker 4: that home run. And moments like that are small because
9:48
Speaker 4: of the spring training. It's one at bat, But if
9:50
Speaker 4: it helps build that confidence where he goes up to
9:52
Speaker 4: the plate and he's you know, he's sticking to his
9:55
Speaker 4: plan and he's convicted in it, I think that makes
9:57
Speaker 4: a big difference for him. That and then just missing
10:01
Speaker 4: the way he wants to miss that. I feel like
10:02
Speaker 4: if he's taken the types of swings that he wants,
10:05
Speaker 4: and you know, he's driving the ball the way that
10:07
Speaker 4: he wants and it's not a matter of just you know,
10:09
Speaker 4: being in between, then I think we'll see a better
10:13
Speaker 4: version of him. But if he's sort of wishy washy,
10:16
Speaker 4: or he's not fully in it, or if he's questioning
10:21
Speaker 4: mechanics or his approach or just not sure about himself,
10:25
Speaker 4: that it ain't gonna happen.
10:27
Speaker 1: Another question about this ball club is the starting rotation,
10:31
Speaker 1: which looked very good during spring training, could be fools gold.
10:35
Speaker 1: We don't know yet, But Jeb, one of the things
10:37
Speaker 1: about the rotation is that they have a bunch of
10:41
Speaker 1: guys who haven't ambassed a lot of major league innings, right,
10:45
Speaker 1: and you talk about the dog days coming up, you know,
10:48
Speaker 1: as they start playing a lot of games, this could
10:52
Speaker 1: come back to bite him. How do you look at
10:53
Speaker 1: the rotation because it looks good coming out of spring training.
10:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the thing that we need to keep
11:00
Speaker 3: in mind about the rotation is that they did not
11:03
Speaker 3: have a single starting pitcher miss a start due to
11:06
Speaker 3: injury in all of twenty twenty five. Some of that,
11:09
Speaker 3: for sure goes to credit with the coaching staff and
11:12
Speaker 3: the training staff and the work they did to get
11:13
Speaker 3: these guys on programs they keep them healthy. But a
11:16
Speaker 3: big part of that, and they will and have said
11:18
Speaker 3: this themselves, was just luck.
11:20
Speaker 5: Right.
11:21
Speaker 3: You just have to have remarkably good luck to get
11:23
Speaker 3: through a season where that is the case, and they
11:25
Speaker 3: had it last season. So I think we should probably
11:28
Speaker 3: all kind of accept upfront that that's not going to
11:30
Speaker 3: be the same this year. There are gonna be guys
11:32
Speaker 3: who get hurt. They are going to have to dip
11:34
Speaker 3: into their depth at some point and see what that
11:35
Speaker 3: looks like.
11:36
Speaker 2: Now.
11:36
Speaker 3: The good part about that is that they have much
11:40
Speaker 3: more depth this year that they have at least some
11:43
Speaker 3: confidence in than they did last year. You talk about
11:46
Speaker 3: a guy like Richard Fitz who had a really strong
11:49
Speaker 3: start to his spring training, maybe the results flagged a
11:51
Speaker 3: little bit in game action, at least down the stretch,
11:53
Speaker 3: will be game ready, ready to go at Memphis when
11:57
Speaker 3: the Cardinalstena plugins starter Hunter Dobbins is going to be
12:00
Speaker 3: there on a rehab assignment. But Hunter Dobbins should be
12:02
Speaker 3: within the first couple of weeks, maybe a month of
12:05
Speaker 3: the season should be one hundred percent, you know, ready
12:07
Speaker 3: to go coming off of the acl repair that he
12:09
Speaker 3: had to do last summer. There's just there are more
12:12
Speaker 3: guys down there, you know, Quinn Matthews looked a little
12:14
Speaker 3: bit like a bounce back in spring. There are more
12:16
Speaker 3: guys down there who they can reach into. The one
12:18
Speaker 3: guy I think I would highlight coming out of spring
12:21
Speaker 3: is probably their most experienced starter, because I think Dustin
12:25
Speaker 3: May had.
12:25
Speaker 2: A really strong spring training.
12:27
Speaker 3: I think that the stuff looked exactly the way that
12:29
Speaker 3: you would want it to look. He was, you know,
12:32
Speaker 3: pretty forthcoming over the last couple of days talking to
12:35
Speaker 3: folks about the way that they have worked with his
12:37
Speaker 3: repertoire and the kind of the conversations he's had with
12:38
Speaker 3: Dusty Blake about reintroducing the curveball into some of that.
12:42
Speaker 3: I think that Dustin May has looked about as good
12:44
Speaker 3: as you could hope that he would going into going
12:46
Speaker 3: end of the season. So you know, you're right that
12:49
Speaker 3: it's not an experienced rotation and that it's going to
12:51
Speaker 3: be a big ask for May to be the kind
12:53
Speaker 3: of like veteran tent pole in the middle of it.
12:55
Speaker 3: But thus far, the very early returns are pretty strong
12:59
Speaker 3: on that front.
13:00
Speaker 1: He's had some injury problems obviously in his career. But yeah,
13:04
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. They do have depth and
13:07
Speaker 1: they do have guys. If they run into injuries or
13:10
Speaker 1: guys you know, suddenly fall victim to too many innings,
13:13
Speaker 1: then what's your take on the starting rotation.
13:17
Speaker 4: So I've heard people talk about how the rotation has
13:20
Speaker 4: to be better than it was last year, because obviously
13:23
Speaker 4: last year there was some stretches where it was just rough,
13:25
Speaker 4: you know, whether it was Fetti or Michaelis, you know,
13:29
Speaker 4: and Polante had some really rough stretches, And to me, like,
13:33
Speaker 4: I understand that, But at the same time, I'm not
13:35
Speaker 4: taking it as a given that the rotation is guaranteed
13:37
Speaker 4: to be better because you know, you talk about, Okay,
13:39
Speaker 4: Michaelas is gone. Okay, so is Sonny Gray, who was
13:43
Speaker 4: your best starter, who was the guy who gave you
13:44
Speaker 4: the most consistent outings, very best chance to win on
13:47
Speaker 4: a consistent basis, you know, I mean, Liberatorre is back,
13:51
Speaker 4: Polante is back. So there's two guys who were in
13:53
Speaker 4: your rotation last year who are back again. So it's
13:55
Speaker 4: not a completely different rotation. McGreevy was there for the
13:58
Speaker 4: later part of last year. And you're hoping these guys
14:00
Speaker 4: take steps forward, but again, none of that is a given.
14:03
Speaker 4: You lost the best starter. You put may in there,
14:05
Speaker 4: who again has had injury history. When it looks good,
14:07
Speaker 4: it looks really good. I mean you think about I
14:10
Speaker 4: mean just seeing his starts in spring training like that
14:12
Speaker 4: looks like a guy who can you know, create an
14:14
Speaker 4: electric atmosphere on those days when he takes the ball
14:17
Speaker 4: just because of his stuff in the way the guys
14:18
Speaker 4: will play behind him.
14:20
Speaker 5: But there's just a lot of question marks.
14:22
Speaker 4: And Kyle Lahy, I mean, he has not started since
14:26
Speaker 4: double A a couple of years ago, and the starts
14:29
Speaker 4: weren't great then, so I mean, and he's a different
14:31
Speaker 4: pitcher now, and so you have optimism that he can
14:34
Speaker 4: be better, but again it's a question mark. So to
14:37
Speaker 4: say that you've got all these questions, like there's question
14:39
Speaker 4: marks about just about all of the guys that are
14:41
Speaker 4: in the rotation right now, whether it's they haven't pitched
14:43
Speaker 4: a full season, you know, their success has been you know,
14:47
Speaker 4: fleeting been up and down, or just the fact that
14:50
Speaker 4: you know there's some guys who are doing this for
14:51
Speaker 4: the first time. You know in la Hey, like there's
14:54
Speaker 4: question marks about each of them, you know health as well,
14:56
Speaker 4: So I think there is a real big upside there,
15:00
Speaker 4: but I don't know that you can say for sure
15:02
Speaker 4: that it's going to be a big step forward as
15:04
Speaker 4: a group.
15:06
Speaker 1: Time for a quick break, You're watching Cardinal Territory on
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Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network.
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17:01
Speaker 1: IJ in that break and I think that's a good thing.
17:03
Speaker 1: Before we move forward, Jeff, I know you have a
17:06
Speaker 1: new project. I wanted to give you a chance to
17:08
Speaker 1: get a plug.
17:09
Speaker 2: Plug away. Thank you the cat.
17:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, I in just the last couple of days here
17:15
Speaker 3: have launched a blog that I'm calling Words about Birds,
17:18
Speaker 3: which you know those things Ryan, and the domain was
17:21
Speaker 3: available to huge pluses in my favor. Looks as these
17:24
Speaker 3: guys will tell you, I am rarely short of things
17:27
Speaker 3: to yap about in the press box, but but have
17:29
Speaker 3: always sort of been looking for a little bit of
17:32
Speaker 3: a more outlet to drop those things out. So if
17:35
Speaker 3: you've read my stuff for years in the bettle of
17:37
Speaker 3: News Democrat, please know none of that is changing. Nothing
17:39
Speaker 3: changes for me other than what I'm calling the DVD
17:42
Speaker 3: extras version of some blog type stuff that I've been
17:46
Speaker 3: able to sort of accumulate and be eager to push
17:49
Speaker 3: out over the years. So that's Words about Birds dot com.
17:52
Speaker 3: Easy enough to find. Find the on ax it'll be
17:54
Speaker 3: there too.
17:55
Speaker 1: All right, we're home for a short plugging. You gave
17:57
Speaker 1: us the long version, but that's fine, and that's a
17:59
Speaker 1: long version that's problem. So let me ask you about
18:02
Speaker 1: another positive positive. JJ weatherhol to me, I think he
18:07
Speaker 1: wins nationally Rookie of the Year. Maybe I'm maybe I'm
18:10
Speaker 1: wrong on this, but this kid just has excelled at
18:14
Speaker 1: every level with all the pressure there because he's JJ
18:17
Speaker 1: weatherhol Everyone knows, you know, that he's a top pick,
18:20
Speaker 1: and he's a top prospect, and he just goes out
18:23
Speaker 1: and does it like a veteran I've talked to him.
18:25
Speaker 1: Seems like a veteran guy. I think he's gonna be
18:28
Speaker 1: really good. What are your thoughts?
18:29
Speaker 2: Get Yeah, I think he is more than ready for
18:32
Speaker 2: the moment. I think that.
18:33
Speaker 3: He is going to deliver a reasonable version of the
18:38
Speaker 3: high expectations that are placed on him. You know, I
18:40
Speaker 3: know that there are definitely Cardinals fans who maybe had
18:43
Speaker 3: a little bit of hesitation about another top prospect sort
18:45
Speaker 3: of given the experiences here over the last couple of years.
18:49
Speaker 3: The thing that I would remind people is that Weatherholt
18:53
Speaker 3: and Jordan Walker are basically the exact same age, which
18:56
Speaker 3: is to say that JJ has had a much longer time,
18:58
Speaker 3: through playing college ball, through you know, through one season
19:00
Speaker 3: in the minors to kind of develop into a more mature,
19:03
Speaker 3: well rounded sort of version of himself than maybe Walker
19:06
Speaker 3: was when he first got to the big leagues. I
19:08
Speaker 3: think that, you know, you should not be surprised. In fact,
19:11
Speaker 3: I would be surprised if we didn't see JJ Weatherholt
19:14
Speaker 3: leading off for the Cardinals on opening Day, I would
19:16
Speaker 3: expect him to take the first at bat for the season.
19:18
Speaker 3: I think that's probably a lot of construction that the
19:20
Speaker 3: Cardinals have been pretty excited about. So you're right that
19:23
Speaker 3: there's going to be a lot on his shoulders and
19:24
Speaker 3: he's going to be a guy with a lot of
19:26
Speaker 3: eyeballs on him. But he also doesn't strike me as
19:29
Speaker 3: a guy who shies away from that or who is
19:31
Speaker 3: going to be particularly affected by it. So I think
19:34
Speaker 3: giving him some time to find his game, to get
19:36
Speaker 3: to a spot where he can be that consistently strong,
19:40
Speaker 3: high average presence, high on base guy at the top
19:42
Speaker 3: of the lineup who can really just sort of be
19:44
Speaker 3: involved in the offense throughout games is going to be
19:47
Speaker 3: pretty exciting to watch.
19:49
Speaker 1: What about you, Lynn, what do you think the Cards
19:51
Speaker 1: happened this guy I'm talking about for the upcoming year?
19:55
Speaker 4: You know, I think it's going to be he's going
19:58
Speaker 4: to be a good player for them. I just hope
20:00
Speaker 4: this year he you know, he gets enough of the
20:04
Speaker 4: learning experiences like I mean, you know I'd written before
20:06
Speaker 4: that you know, I want to see some failure for him,
20:09
Speaker 4: not because I want to see him fail, but just
20:10
Speaker 4: because I want him to go through the things that
20:12
Speaker 4: are gonna make him better for the long term. But
20:14
Speaker 4: as far as what he is right now, I think
20:16
Speaker 4: he's he's going to give you a good at bat.
20:18
Speaker 6: Like.
20:18
Speaker 4: I don't think he's a guy who's going to be
20:19
Speaker 4: a game changer with his power or anything like that.
20:21
Speaker 4: But I think he's just going to be a good player,
20:23
Speaker 4: a good hitter, assaulid hitter. He's not going to try
20:25
Speaker 4: and do more, hopefully than what he should do. I
20:27
Speaker 4: think just being a line drive hitter, being a guy
20:29
Speaker 4: who controls the strike zone, gets on base, takes his walks,
20:33
Speaker 4: you know, that is what he should be And as
20:35
Speaker 4: long as he sticks with that, I think that's going
20:37
Speaker 4: to be a quality, you know, a piece to that
20:39
Speaker 4: lineup for them. I think he's you know, maybe there'll
20:42
Speaker 4: be some learning experiences at second base just because the
20:46
Speaker 4: speed of the game, and we saw a little bit
20:47
Speaker 4: that early in spring training, but you know, I think
20:49
Speaker 4: they're very happy about the way that he attacked.
20:51
Speaker 5: That and went about that. So I mean, I think
20:54
Speaker 5: he's gonna be a good player.
20:55
Speaker 4: I don't think he's necessarily a transcendent superstar player, but
20:58
Speaker 4: I think he's a good everyday player. Could be one
21:00
Speaker 4: of their better players by the end of the season, potentially,
21:04
Speaker 4: but for sure going forward, you know, I hope that
21:08
Speaker 4: he's one of their better players in their lineup.
21:11
Speaker 1: For the record, I want Mason Win to lead off.
21:13
Speaker 1: I know that Allie wants to manage lefty right. Win
21:18
Speaker 1: wants to lead off. He did last year, and I
21:20
Speaker 1: think being a leadoff guy puts pressure on any hitter.
21:24
Speaker 1: Take some of that off the new guy, JJ and
21:27
Speaker 1: let Win do it. Just my thought there, all right,
21:29
Speaker 1: I want to get surprises. Give me a guy, Jeff,
21:32
Speaker 1: that you're high on and maybe isn't getting headlines that
21:35
Speaker 1: people aren't talking about enough. If you have one, throw
21:39
Speaker 1: it out there.
21:40
Speaker 2: So I'll give you two.
21:42
Speaker 3: I'll give you one guy who was on the roster,
21:44
Speaker 3: one guy who was not yet on the roster. Among
21:47
Speaker 3: the group of guys who are going to break camp
21:48
Speaker 3: with the team, I think that you should expect Nathan
21:51
Speaker 3: Church to get a lot more exposure than maybe people
21:53
Speaker 3: were anticipating going into spring training. I would get I'd
21:56
Speaker 3: be pretty surprised at Church was not starting in left
21:58
Speaker 3: field and opening day just with the left right against
22:00
Speaker 3: Drew Raspus and their pitching for the Rays. And this
22:02
Speaker 3: is a guy who they definitely believe in. You know,
22:04
Speaker 3: he's the guy who's got high motor, high speed, really
22:07
Speaker 3: strong glove, and I think they think has a much
22:10
Speaker 3: better bat than he showed in the sort of you know,
22:13
Speaker 3: the very small stretch he got last year. There was
22:15
Speaker 3: definitely some acknowledgment that the game felt a little bit
22:18
Speaker 3: fast for him, that maybe he wasn't able to slow
22:21
Speaker 3: down the played appearances and that he didn't look like
22:22
Speaker 3: the hit or to think that he is. All that
22:24
Speaker 3: being said, you know, he hit one seventy and turned
22:27
Speaker 3: in I think it was point four war in the
22:29
Speaker 3: very short stretch he had last year, doesn't mean a
22:32
Speaker 3: whole lot other than the glove.
22:33
Speaker 2: Is really outstanding in the outfield.
22:35
Speaker 3: And for a team that's going to have you know,
22:37
Speaker 3: Jordan Walker and right with all of the challenges that
22:40
Speaker 3: sometimes come with the defense there, and is going to
22:42
Speaker 3: have maybe some combination of largely infielders and left I
22:46
Speaker 3: think that the stability that comes out of Nathan Church's
22:48
Speaker 3: glove is going to get him a lot of playing
22:50
Speaker 3: time and he is going to show positively. The second guy,
22:53
Speaker 3: the guy I would say who was not on the
22:54
Speaker 3: roster yet, a name that you should get to know,
22:57
Speaker 3: that you should learn to pronounce, is the Luis Gastalloom.
22:59
Speaker 3: That is guy who made a lot of people look
23:02
Speaker 3: silly throughout spring training and the WBC when he had
23:05
Speaker 3: an opportunity to get into games. That change up is real.
23:08
Speaker 3: That change up looks like the version of the Devin
23:11
Speaker 3: Williams screwball pitch that ran through the NL Central for
23:14
Speaker 3: a number of years. Now, what gas Loom doesn't quite
23:18
Speaker 3: have is quite the fastball that you would need to
23:21
Speaker 3: pair off that to really dominate in the big leagues
23:23
Speaker 3: in the same way. But if he's healthy, he's gonna
23:26
Speaker 3: get a debut this season. He is gonna be some
23:29
Speaker 3: gonna get some real opportunities to pitch. It's some highly
23:31
Speaker 3: average spots. And that's the name that you're gonna want
23:34
Speaker 3: to know for a fast rising reliever who's going to
23:37
Speaker 3: show up in the big leagues this season.
23:39
Speaker 1: That's a good one, no question, lend do you have
23:41
Speaker 1: a surprise guy? Possibly?
23:44
Speaker 4: Uh, you know, Church would have been one of the
23:46
Speaker 4: names that came to mind. But the another one I
23:49
Speaker 4: would say, and it's not as big a surprise, I
23:51
Speaker 4: don't think, at least not in my mind.
23:53
Speaker 5: But I think just because he's sort.
23:55
Speaker 4: Of falling a fallen behind them in terms of our consciousness,
23:59
Speaker 4: is just Thomas JC because I think, you know, I
24:02
Speaker 4: wasn't sure he was going to make the team, just
24:03
Speaker 4: because of the WBC and the fact that they didn't
24:05
Speaker 4: get to really get a good look at him as
24:07
Speaker 4: an outfielder. But I think people also forget that when
24:11
Speaker 4: they acquired him in the middle of that double A season,
24:14
Speaker 4: when he was the MVP of his league and he
24:18
Speaker 4: had twenty home runs and was hitting three hundred something.
24:22
Speaker 4: And now people sort of, you know, put him behind
24:24
Speaker 4: some other people because of weather Hold and everything else.
24:26
Speaker 4: But as a right handed hitter, a guy who does
24:29
Speaker 4: swing a lot but who you know has some pop,
24:32
Speaker 4: can hit consistently, has shown the ability to be a
24:35
Speaker 4: really productive right handed hitter. I think if he gets
24:39
Speaker 4: some playing time, whether that means bouncing him around or
24:42
Speaker 4: getting him in the outfield, I think he could be
24:44
Speaker 4: a surprise as far as just how much of a
24:48
Speaker 4: big piece he could be for that lineup where you
24:49
Speaker 4: got a lot of question marks.
24:52
Speaker 1: We'll let you guys go. So it's a rebuild, a reset,
24:58
Speaker 1: tear down, whatever you want to call it. Cards are
25:00
Speaker 1: doing a lot to try to improve the fan experience
25:03
Speaker 1: and give them a lot of credit. There's deals on
25:05
Speaker 1: food and stuff throughout the stadium. They're working hard at
25:09
Speaker 1: it because they understand they want fans to show up
25:12
Speaker 1: and spend their money. My question, Jeff, is will fans
25:16
Speaker 1: show up this year?
25:19
Speaker 3: I think that they will probably show up in similar
25:22
Speaker 3: numbers the last season. You could maybe make an argument
25:26
Speaker 3: that there will be a little bit of a bump
25:27
Speaker 3: maybe early in the season, people trying to figure out
25:29
Speaker 3: what they got. Also, if the weather, frankly is going
25:31
Speaker 3: to be gorgeous in the first couple weeks of April,
25:34
Speaker 3: that's going to help a lot too. That does drag
25:35
Speaker 3: it down a little. Will they show up more than that?
25:38
Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, we have really never lived
25:41
Speaker 2: through in St. Louis.
25:42
Speaker 3: Honestly, in the span of my lifetime, the kind of
25:45
Speaker 3: rebuild that they're going through now. They've been bad before,
25:47
Speaker 3: no question, but they have not been kind of intentionally
25:51
Speaker 3: stepping back and putting forward the kind of vision that
25:55
Speaker 3: they're outlining right now.
25:56
Speaker 2: So will people respond to that.
25:59
Speaker 3: We'll see history throughout baseball tells us that not so
26:03
Speaker 3: much that if teams are losing, fans don't come, and
26:05
Speaker 3: they can say what they want about rebuilding. But that's
26:07
Speaker 3: winning determined attendance, right Garbins Fans are very eager all
26:12
Speaker 3: the time to tell you how special and different and
26:14
Speaker 3: exciting they are, and so this will be their opportunity
26:17
Speaker 3: to show it, to be at the ballpark to support
26:20
Speaker 3: a team that is rebuilding. Obviously not judging anybody who
26:23
Speaker 3: doesn't come to watch a team that could lose an
26:26
Speaker 3: outside number of games, but we'll see, I guess is
26:29
Speaker 3: the answer, and the Cardinals sure hope.
26:30
Speaker 1: So energy and improvement, that's what I'm looking for. Lynn
26:35
Speaker 1: last thing, will fans show up this seed?
26:39
Speaker 4: Well, Jeff is not judging anybody who doesn't show up,
26:41
Speaker 4: and I am judging them because I've heard a whole
26:44
Speaker 4: lot of people talk about, well, they should have done
26:46
Speaker 4: this years ago, and if they get the young, exciting
26:49
Speaker 4: guys in there, then I'm going to start going to games,
26:52
Speaker 4: and so now I want to see it.
26:53
Speaker 5: I don't believe it's going to happen.
26:55
Speaker 4: I think that that's a lot that's something that you
26:57
Speaker 4: say when you're just not happy with what the team
26:59
Speaker 4: was doing in the past, and then when you actually
27:01
Speaker 4: see it unfold and if they're you know, potentially on
27:04
Speaker 4: a pace to lose ninety games, one hundred games, then
27:06
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, that thing that you said you
27:08
Speaker 4: wanted to see doesn't look quite what you like what
27:10
Speaker 4: you thought. And you know, I invite people to prove
27:13
Speaker 4: me wrong, to show up to the ballpark for this
27:16
Speaker 4: rebuilding team and to watch these young players that are,
27:19
Speaker 4: you know, going through their growing pains, But I'm not
27:21
Speaker 4: sure that I actually believe that.
27:25
Speaker 1: Love it. I absolutely love it, gentlemen, job well done.
27:28
Speaker 1: We appreciate the time, and that's going to do it
27:30
Speaker 1: for this episode of Cardinal Territory. We'll see you next time.
27:34
Speaker 1: Hopefully that episode won't suck.