Latest / Drawn of History / Louis Theroux _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _513(M4A_128K)

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Louis Theroux _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _513(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Some new tour dates to tell you about Long Beach, California,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: July 10th, Los Angeles, July 11th, Bethel, New York, July 31st, Albany,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: New York on August 1st, Las Vegas, Nevada, July 5th
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: and 6th, Bangor, Maine, August 9th, Bend, Oregon, Spokane, Portland, Maine,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and Oregon. A lot of places, um, Go check them
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: out at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. And thank you to anybody
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: that's come out in support and seen the show and
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: just can't even believe it. And I'll see you guys there, baby.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Praise God, baby gang. Today's guest is a documentarian, a journalist,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: an instigator of sorts. He has a new documentary that's
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: trending right now on Netflix called Tell Them You Love Me.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: It's really fascinating if you haven't seen it. He's always
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: splashing in the dark pools of society, and we're grateful
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: for all his contributions over the years that have kept
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: us entertained and intrigued and informed as well. Today's guest
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: here from the United Kingdom is Mr. Louis Theroux. I'll
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: sit and tell you my stories.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Shine on me.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: And I will find a song. I will sing it.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Just for you. I like your voice, man. I like
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: your voice.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: You do?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, thanks, man.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I'd like to speak like that. Well.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I think, well, it's interesting coming to London because you
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: see where it started at. Coming to London is very
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: much like going and looking at the roots of America.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and the English language. And you probably know this,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: but they say Shakespeare, if he were alive today, would
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: speak kind of like an Appalachian.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: He'd be a, I feel like he'd probably be a
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: rapper or something now.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: He'd probably be a rapper, but he'd talk kind of
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: like this.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he'd be like, what a hose.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because words like got, we say gotten in America,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: or fall, we say autumn. Those are, you know, in Shakespeare,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: he'd talk kind of like, it's a lot of fun
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: talking to you, Theo Vaughan, because I'm kind of a
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: stand-up comedian too.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, so he'd make.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: But I make plays.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: But there is different characters on stage talking and stuff.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Are you serious, William? That sounds really.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I love words.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: It feels weird talking to you. Like, it feels a
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: little offensive.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: You could hear everything that's wrong with what I'm doing.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: But to me, it sounded perfect.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because people will, like, joke about a
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: white accent that's kind of country. But they don't... but
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: if you do it at about a black accent, it
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: seems like it gets offensive, you know?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't, this is, okay, this doesn't, I
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: don't use terms like, obviously I don't use racial slurs,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: but I don't say white trash. Yeah. For example, and
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that sounds like maybe prissy, but, or I wouldn't use
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: the term hillbilly. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: it's- I don't feel like I, maybe because I came
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: from a position of something like a little bit of
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: privilege in life, and it feels- like um like you're
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: looking down on people.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah well i think it's like it's in the past
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: eight years i would say in the u.s the like
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: they made it so the only people they would make
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: fun of anymore were kind of like poor white people
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: or just white people kind of so they kind of
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: stuck themselves in this place yes i think it's one
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why podcasting has had a rise over
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: the years because it still kept us just freedom of like, well,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not, I'll just, we'll talk about whatever we feel like.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: We'll try to just be our normal selves.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And actually be loose and free. I used to, in
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: the 90s, I worked with, do you know who Michael
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Moore is, the documentary maker? So he was my mentor
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: of a sort. Like he gave me my first job
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: on TV. I worked for a show called TV Nation
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: in the mid 90s. It was on NBC and then
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: it was on Fox. But it felt like, because it
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: was a very, it was a left wing kind of
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: politically engaged, but it felt like the one thing we
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: were okay with we as a collective on the show,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: with making fun of was kind of white southerners. Yeah.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: So it was like, oh, well, we're going to channel
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: all that into just making fun of Billy Joe and
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Billy Bob. Yeah. And I always slightly felt like maybe
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: this isn't okay. You know what I mean? Like the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: last acceptable taboo.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Making fun of the dumb crackers. Yeah, dude.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: These damn dumb.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: They don't know shit.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: They're dumb as a stump. They're drinking gasoline. Yeah, right.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: They're making love.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Doing donuts and driving around thinking that's fun.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: They're doing donuts in their sister's vagina. Yeah, man. That's
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: the scariest place to do one. But during, for some reason,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: there was like something in the past like eight years
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: when it hit that, that people started to kind of
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: get fed up with it in a way. Or they
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: just wanted equality. They just wanted, well, Make fun of everybody.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Like don't just, you know, and I think some of
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: that came with like the Trump stuff. People thought that
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: all Trump supporters were just like complete, you know, rednecks.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: And I think you see that a little bit in
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: some of the stuff Sacha Baron Cohen did.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: You ever watch like Borat and Bruno and it felt like.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: It felt mean to me.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: It felt a bit mean. sometimes yeah when he was
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: making fun of that he takes you remember this one
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: it's kind of it's weird because sometimes you feel it's
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: funny i feel i don't you know i don't want
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: to be done because he's it's funny and it felt
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: a little bit like he was beating up on country folk.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah you know what i mean yeah i think i
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: think as long as everybody's getting beaten up on it
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: seems good yeah and that's i think where i feel
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: like things are kind of hedging back that way because
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: there's nowhere else for them to go right now um Man,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: London is marvelous, bro.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're welcome.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't think I really... I was
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: always kind of against the British, like, yeah.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Come on, really?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're Polish. My father's from Nicaragua, but his father
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: was from Poland.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: No way.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So my parent, my grandfather met his wife in Nicaragua
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: doing missionary work a long time ago. So you're kind
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: of Latin- I'm Polish Nicaraguan. That's kind of how I
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: feel the most, I guess.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Because my father was very like, you know, he would
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: just talk in Spanish and drink small coffees and, you know,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: and probably think about, you know, dancing with women that
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: weren't my mother.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Doing the Lambada.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: The forbidden dance. But you were growing up in Covington
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: and it must have been like, you were quite exotic
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: in those terms. Because that's a fairly, like that's mainly
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: white and a few black people, right? To be Nicaraguan...
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that count for being a bit like.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it even starts with N-I, you know, so
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: immediately we're getting kind of lumped in with the brothers.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: You can pass. Like, you look pretty white to me.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I feel weird saying that. Just saying that felt uncomfortable,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: like I was sounding like David Duke or something.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: No, I used to share a back fence with David Duke.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Did you?
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When he... His girlfriend, he dated the hottest chick
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: that worked at our seafood restaurant.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Duke did?
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: They said that was his, people who were part of
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: the white nationalist movements, that that was his, other than
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: his racism and being a Nazi, like his other big
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: failing was that he had an eye for the ladies.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: He was always having trouble shagging the wrong person's wife.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I could see that. I don't think he's
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: going to say he had a problem with seafood. But yeah,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of... And he may be suffering
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: from gout.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's pretty old now.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: It could be just racism built up in his joints.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: But as a neighbor, nice guy. That's awesome. For real. Yeah, pretty... Yeah,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: we didn't see much. We'd go to the gym sometimes,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and sometimes he and I would lift weights. But Seriously?
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But he's quite a bit older.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was older. This was probably 20 years ago.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: At that point, he was, you know, just kind of
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: still a healthy guy at the gym. But he wasn't
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: yelling racist. Things are wearing like a racist shirt or anything.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: No, his thing was he left the Klan to found
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: the NAAWP.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah?
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: You remember that?
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Uh-uh.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, it might be before your time. National Association
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: for the Advancement of White People.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: White People, yeah.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And his thing was like, You know, black people can
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: do it. Why can't I? It's just the same thing.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Civil rights.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Civil rights for my people.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: What are you hearing when I'm doing that?
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm hearing just like you, just kind of like
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: having like a country accent.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: What do you do in English one?
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: All right. Good day, friends.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Keep going.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: All right. Oh, nice to see you today, miss.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Say I grew up in Louisiana, because it's hard when
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: you're mixing. So I grew up in Covington, Louisiana, and
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: most of my... Just talk about that a little.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Well, I grew up in Covington, Louisiana, sir, and I
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: was just a wee fella there with my mum and
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: me grandmum.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Not too bad.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: And she died. She had typhoid, or she had a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: black lung, yeah, something. I don't know how British to get,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: you know? Black lung. So we ate a lot of, like...
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: War meals. A lot of the food here tastes like
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of war meals, I feel like.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Yes. Which war? Like the Second World War?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'll have to open it. Do you
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: mean like- Check a reference.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: So like it would be delicious if you were in
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: a war.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like it feels like somebody like hurried you into
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a tent to eat and this is what the chef had,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the cook had.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Um you know like i'm half american my dad's from
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: boston uh boston massachusetts and so i feel a very
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: divided loyalty like and i but at the same time
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: because i grew up mainly in south london i would
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: come to america to visit my relations many of them
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: lived around boston or on cape cod we'd holiday on
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: cape cod you know that very nice yeah how are you?
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: That's how they would, how are you? Yeah. That's a
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: different American accent.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's wicked. And so your American fan base is
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: going to be like, what the fuck is he doing?
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: But my point was that I, when they would have
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: stereotypes about British people or English people, I would feel
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: slightly offended because if you grow up in it, you
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: don't notice like, oh, the food's awful. Or the, you know,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: the idea that English people will have bad teeth. And
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, No, we don't, but actually we kind
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: of certainly did then. They're a little better now. But yeah,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in what you see from the outside. So
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: the food's not so good.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: The food is not, yeah, the food doesn't strike me.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: This is one thing I noticed. The women are, they
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: seem to be neater women. They seem to have more
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: ambiance about them. I think, and this is no disrespect
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: to America or anything. America seems like a lot more
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: kind of social media obsessed and like, um, kind of
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: fake tit kind of obsessed. Whereas I feel like here,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: some of the women just seem to have their own,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: more of their own world to them. Um, like you
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: have a girlfriend. I don't have a girlfriend.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: So you're out here, you know, down for whatever.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not just, you know, just smashing any, you know,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: traipser or whatever people call you or whatever somebody.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: What was the term?
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Traipser, somebody traipsing on by or whatever.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not out here like touching people or anything.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: You nearly said molesting.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, I'm not, yeah. I mean, I'm
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: doing everything legal. Of course. I'm doing legal work here.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. Yeah. But you're out here thinking like,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I'm a free, I'm young.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I could meet a woman. I could meet a wife.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: You could meet your future wife.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I'm in the, I'm more to the
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: place now where, yeah, I would like to meet a wife,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: you know? So, but I just think that some of
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the- Have you.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Been out going out to clubs and bars?
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: No, no. I don't go to clubs. We went last,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Carr took us out the other night to the Chiltern.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Chiltern Firehouse.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Chiltern Firehouse.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: That's high rolling.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was fancy in there.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: That's fancy. The drinks are, they're expensive, but they're very delicious.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, and the lamps even had, they didn't have like
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: the little clicker on the back on the cord. They
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: had the actual. Right. Where you pull the. Yeah. You know.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Like a little string?
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Like a bonafide lamp. Yeah. Like that time. Like it
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: was like, you know.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Does that count for a lot? Like a string? That
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: seems like a low bar for like formality.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: The lamps had strings on them.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I think reaching behind the lights. The little desk
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: that it's on.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: It was so fancy, that place. They didn't even have switches.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: They had lamps with little strings dangling off them. Is
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: it offensive if I do that? We can cut that out.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: If you feel like your fans are going to be like,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: why'd you get that limey on there and he just
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: rode you?
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. I'll let you know if
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: it feels weird. I think because we're talking about it,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: it's fine. If somebody was being like, but I think
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: that's something that happened in America. It was like people
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: were like, fuck you. You'll try and sell us your
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: television programming, but you're all, you're the only thing that's
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: on it is you're only brave enough to make fun
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: of us.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Like you're not even artistic anymore. I think that's something
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that's happened a lot with like Hollywood, um, is they
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: become like fifth and sixth generation Hollywooders. Now it's not,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: they're not as accepting of like people coming in and
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: bringing in different ideas. It doesn't feel like a melting
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: pot of ideas anymore. It feels like, um, uh, the
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: people that originally came there and had the ideas, some
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: of that's kind of dissipated just by like nepotism and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: stuff like that sometimes.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: And insularity, they're in a bubble. I'll say like, you know,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: because I came up as a, you know, from the
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: outward appearance as being British, but then I got my
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: break in America working for Michael Moore and then I
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: was doing story, first writing, One of the first stories
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I did was about the Ku Klux Klan.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm familiar with it.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, Zinc, Arkansas. The show that I did or the
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: phenomenon of the Klan or both?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I'm familiar with the one. Where's the part where you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: guys are at the house and they ask you if
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you're Jewish?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, that was a different one because then it worked.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I was with the neo-Nazis in California, but the first
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: one was a guy called Michael Lowe. He lived in Waco.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Texas. Oh yeah.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: And he said, no, sir. And it was the first
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: time I found, I encountered that Southern thing of being
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: called sir, but in a way that felt formal to
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the point of slightly unfriendly.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: It's real nice. Come over here, sir. Like it could
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: have felt like polite, but it felt like distancing. You
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? No, just like that. And he
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: was showing me all his signs and the site he would,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: they were pretending not to be racist.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I've seen this.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: But they're in the Ku Klux Klan. So he's leaving
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: out this stuff and it says, And this is something,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: an atom we use for our world side sales, and
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: it's called for the discriminating shopper. And it said discriminating
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: in red, and I go, but why does it say
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: discriminating in red? It's just like that because it kind
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: of stands out. And I said, but does that mean
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: you discriminate? He goes, no, sir, we do not discriminate, no, sir.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: And it was an odd thing. But my point, the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: point I was going to get to was that when
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: those shows go out in the US, I'm thinking like,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I'm half American. Like this isn't me making fun of
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: American culture, but some people didn't see it that way.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And I always felt like a very divided. And I
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: did one, I had one where I went around Miami
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Mega Jail, like the big, one of the biggest jails
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: in the States.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, in Dade County.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Miami Dade, yeah.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Fourth floor, fifth floor.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: So you've seen this stuff?
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm familiar. I don't want you to
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: think that I'm not familiar.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, I appreciate it. So I thought it was a
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: good show, but then when it went out on Netflix,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I guess a lot of people liked it, but some
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: of the comments were like, from people, I think black
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: people who were like, why is this white British guy
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: going in, kind of making us look bad? Which, it's
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: a valid response, but it's definitely not how it was intended.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: So I'm conscious of that feeling of being inside a,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: but outsider as well.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's fine. I was thinking about that.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder what it feels like. Cause
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: once you kind of, as somebody who's coming to look
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: at something and explore it and see how you can
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: be a filter or like a kaleidoscope for the other
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: people behind you that are going to watch it. What
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: is that? Is it tough? Like at a certain point,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: do you become a bit of a jaded kaleidoscope? Do
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: you become like a, do you like, Yeah, how does
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: your funnel change over time just because of doing it
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: more and more and because it garners– also, it garners esteem.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: And so that's– it's just interesting how the different– how
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: different factors can start to affect the funnel.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: The best thing that's happened to me is that I'm
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: not that well-known in America. And, you know, it's changed
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: a little bit. For various reasons. So I have a
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: little bit of a profile. But I think the fact
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: that I can go in where if I did a
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: documentary in the UK, I'd be pretty well known. Yeah.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: And it's fine. You can still do it. In some ways,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: it generates more goodwill because they're like, oh, we like Louis.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: We'll let him in. And then off camera, you're maybe
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: doing selfies and whatnot, which is fine. Although it kind
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: of eats into your time a bit. You think I'm
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: supposed to be a serious journalist. slightly flying under the
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: radar and here I am doing selfies at a riot
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: do you know what I mean I'm like oh I
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: really need to be filming this right now so sorry
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: someone's being arrested over there oh just a quick selfie
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: come on mate and then in America however I'm just
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I'm going around Miami jail no one's going to ask
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: me for a selfie there do you know what I
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: mean and I love that part of it and I
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: never get jaded as long as I feel I'm meeting
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: new people the only times where I felt like the
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: dynamic changes is if I go back and do a
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: follow-up a couple of times So I did a story
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: about the Westboro Baptist Church.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm familiar. That's in Louisiana, right?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: It's in Kansas, Topeka, Kansas, the capital.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I think we have a branch in Louisiana.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. Really? Yeah. They don't really do branches.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: It's really just a one-stop shop. Oh, yeah. Unless there's
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: obviously crazy, I use the term crazy advisedly, but There's
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: other outfits. There's strange churches. But with Westboro, as far
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: as I'm aware, there's only ever been one of the
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: guys left and moved to Louisiana. I wonder if that's
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: what you're thinking about.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I thought they had a Ford operating base or something
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: in Louisiana.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe. Like a little beachhead.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Let's deploy from here. So when I went back, I
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: did the first one. I'm like, hello. How does it work?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Nice to meet you. So you carry these signs. What's
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: that all about? And then you made the program. And
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: then I went and made a follow-up. And when you
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: go back, they kind of have your number. And I
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: don't mean number as in like they know you're a
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: prankster or making fun of them. It's more like they
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: just know who you are. So they don't put up
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: with any nonsense. And you know who they are. So
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the word you used was jaded. You get a little
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: jaded and that creates a different energy. So you are
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: sort of saying, come on, just stop it. It's racist
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: or it's homophobic. It's anti-Semitic. And you just cut to
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the chase quicker, which... you have no camouflage. So it
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: doesn't make it impossible to do work. And so as
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: long as I'm on a new story, even if it's
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: a related story to something, like if you put me
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: in a prison in the US tomorrow, I'd be a
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: very happy person.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Wow. So you like that sort of, you like being
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the princess and the pea, you like being the pea
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: under the mattress kind of?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, kind of. I'm working with that metaphor. I'm
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: waiting for it to, Makes sense. But yes, like maybe
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I'm the princess in the sense that, I love that
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: fairy tale, by the way. You remember how it works?
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Like she stops the night and she says I'm a
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: princess and they say we don't believe you and they
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: say here's how you test and they don't say anything
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: to her they say get a pee am I you
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: remember how and they put like a hundred mattresses like
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: a ton and the next one they say how did
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: you sleep and they said I slept terrible and they're
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: what I was tossing and turning all night because the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: one pee But it's a point about, oh, she really
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: was a princess because she could feel a pee. I mean,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it sounds kind of like a nightmare, right?
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I grew up, yeah, I definitely, I used
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: to have those buzzer underwear that would shock you if
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you peed at night.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I heard about that.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: It didn't shock you, it just buzzed, surely. It was
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: pretty strong, the voltage we got.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: You went through a lot growing up.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: We got a pretty high voltage package, I think. My
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: mom wanted me to fucking feel it, yeah. I got
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: them for Christmas. It was a gift, I remember. And
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: it was kind of fun because you would be able
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: to just sprinkle some water on them and turn them on.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And so my brother would be like, do the thing.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: And I would do it.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Do they still sell those?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I think having the electricity in the pool of urine
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: was a bad thing. It was a very 80s, 90s thing.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: But no, I meant you're like, you're the P actually
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: that gets put in, like you're the thing that has
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: an effect on these. I see.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I've got the distorting effect of being, of
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: mixing things up. And yeah, I very much, I do
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: like that. Yeah. I don't know what else to say
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like what is, how did that ever start in
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: you that you desired like?
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, I like invisibility and I'm an anxious person. And
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: because I grew up always worrying about things. I found
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: if I was talking to someone who seemed off beam
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: or just in any way, like their mind works differently.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Like I was, maybe all kids are like this, but
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I was the kid who, if there was a homeless
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: person with his mouth open and I was like five
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: or six years old, I'd be like, what's going on
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: with that? Mom, why is that man got his mouth open?
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: What mom? And they're like, you know, things you're not
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: supposed to talk about. Don't talk about it. Or if
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: you read about just weird stuff happening, like guys falling asleep,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: And kind of getting, you know, and then burning to
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: death because they were in the sun and they were
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: wearing too much sun oil. And it's like, what does
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: that feel like? I was just kind of, I think
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: there were aspects of life that felt so strange, it
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: took me out of myself. And whatever inner voices of
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: anxiety and disquiet I had, they were silenced. Does that
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: make sense?
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: So if you're on location, you're going and talking to
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: someone who, like the first story I ever did, It
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: was for Michael Moore and it was called Millennium and
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: it was about people who think the end of the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: world is about to happen. And my main anxiety was
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be terrible at being on TV, right?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I just didn't think I had whatever that gift is.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Like I was very nervous. I always think I know
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: at least five people who would be way better at
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: this than me. Like my best friends were all really funny,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: people I grew up with who went on to be
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: comedians and talented performers, right? And I'm thinking I'm the
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: least funny one in my friendship group. And yet I
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: was 23 years old and I'd been given this break.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: And the only thing I had that I was clinging
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: onto that I thought, but I'm going to take this
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: opportunity of being a correspondent on this new show because
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I want to meet these people who are part of
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: these crazy cults who think the world is about to end.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I just thought that does sound like, that sounds fascinating
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: and I will enjoy that part of it. And maybe
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: in enjoying speaking to them, they'll get some usable footage.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: And that was really the launch pad, was the fact
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: that I just want to know, why do you think that?
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: What part of you, when is it going to all happen?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: When is Jesus coming back and what will he be wearing?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And is that a Tuesday or a Wednesday? And the
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: concrete detail or the UFO, there were four different groups
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: and there was a UFO group. They were landing in
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Southern California. The spaceships were going to land in 2001.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And then there was a group in Western Montana who
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: were a part of a neo-Nazi outfit group. who wore
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: little Nazi uniforms. And I remember it was day three.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: The first two days, it went terrible. Like, I thought...
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: With the neo-Nazis, you mean?
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: No.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Day one was Harold Camping. He was a fundamentalist Christian.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: He talked like this. And then Jesus is going to
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: come back, see?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And then day two was a UFO group. And they
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: were all kind of touchy-feely. Like, we're not preaching doom
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: and gloom. We're not fearful at all. But it was
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: kind of like they kept talking, like I just didn't
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: feel like I was clicking with them. Like they talked
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: too much, basically. And I was too polite and scared
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: to interrupt. But then day three, the Nazis, bizarrely, were
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the most polite and the most sort of emotionally available.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Does that make sense? So they were just, I think
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: they were just so lonely and so bored, like two
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: guys living in a trailer in Western Montana.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: The me arriving, and they're like, come on in. so
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: great to have you. You know, there's a lot of
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: truth in the prophecies that are written up in Star Wars,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: the movie Star Wars. And I went, what about Star Trek?
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Star Trek's another one. A lot of truth in that.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Different planets for different races. And I thought like, I was,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to talk too much about myself because
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I thought they'd probably assume I was Jewish because a
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: lot of people assume I'm Jewish. And I thought that
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: would lead to an interesting dynamic. So, and it was
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: just really striking how they were just thrilled that, to
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: be telling the good news about different races going to
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: different planets and how there was this neo-Nazi cosmic vision.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: And I would just sort of go like, wow, that's fascinating.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Tell me more. And in the ambience of kind of weird,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say friendship, but this sort of
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: weird feeling of warmth that infused the room and the
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: ludicrousness of what they were saying, I thought, okay, I
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: can do this. Like I can do my job. This
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: is funny and interesting.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: That's cool, man.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: And I thought that was it. Not only did I
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: think I've got this, I thought like I'm one of
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: the greatest TV performers of all time. You know what
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I mean? It went like that. I was like, this
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: isn't a segment. This is a feature film. And in fact,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Michael Moore better watch out because I'm way bigger than that.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, it's wild how your ego- This is three
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: days in.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Three days in. Of course. I'm too big for this.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: What's so wild how your ego will- will kind of
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: be the thing that coerces you, that tickles you enough
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: and prods you enough to even get on stage. And
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: the second you open your mouth, then it jumps right
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: in front of you and fucking thinks you're Katy Perry
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: or somebody or Benedict Arnold or whatever.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have a middle range. Like I'm either
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: this is a disaster or I smashed it. Same. That's
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: probably pretty normal.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's pretty– I think it's– You know,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I go to like 12-step recovery and there's a term
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: in there. It's always like I'm an egomaniac with an
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: inferiority complex. That's a big term that people say in there.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: It's terrible when you say something about you think it's
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: unique and it turns out not only is it not unique,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: like it's a cliche. My personality type is actually a cliche.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: That's kind of disappointing.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Seems pretty chill.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: It seems. That's when you realize maybe we are all
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: already AIs, you know? Like we are in a sim.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: There's nothing original about me or you. Maybe you, but
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: not me.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Well, that's not very fair to put it on me
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: since you made it so sullen, but I will say this, dude.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: One time Joe Rogan said, I was talking with him,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: and I'm not name dropping. I know you've been over
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: there before. Yeah, yeah. Um, he said, you know, there's,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: there's many of us out there. There's like, there's like, uh, uh,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: seven Theo Vons. There's like, uh, seven, uh, Louis Theroux's.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: There's like a whole map. There's like, there's just happening
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: at the same time. And I don't know if I
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: believe it.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: And one of them is Asian and a couple of
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: them are probably in Africa, which is crazy to think about.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. But I don't know if I believe that.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Cause it takes away some of your own like, um,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: sense of, being value to yourself you know that was one.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Of the reasons why i've never said this before i
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: don't think but when i went to america i felt
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: able to be on tv because i thought well there's
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: not many people like me here you know and i
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: could be the british guy whereas in in the uk
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: and certainly in london i feel like there's hundreds of
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: guys who are just like me yeah do you know
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: what i mean whereas you actually uh you've you carved
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: a path for yourself surrounded by people who are somewhat
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Probably somewhat similar. There's other versions of you out there,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: but you're the best. You must be the best one
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: because you rose to the top.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I don't know sometimes why
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I've had success in this business or been fortunate. I
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: just hated not having a lot of opportunity, I felt like.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: And then when podcasting came along, it felt like you
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: could just do what you, you could just be yourself.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: That's what it felt. And it's like, Yeah, I don't know.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I've been like a slow evolver in life.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of a slow learner and like a late
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: evolver kind of. And so... Are.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: You still fasting? No. Because you were fasting for a time.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I fasted for a time. I almost bit
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: into a damn employee at a.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: At a Best Buy.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Or Costco.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: It was Best Buy. I don't go to Costco.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Is there a difference?
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I don't like seeing that much food at once.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Because... Just... Too tempting? No.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: It makes me feel sad.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Have you been to Aldi since you've been here?
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Aldi, the supermarket? No.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Everything's cheap. You can't spend more than £ 50 if you try. Oh, wow.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: It's wild because you need self-checkout, so you have a
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: little plastic bin. And it's a discount retailer, but you can...
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: you don't get a whole cart, like a trolley, like
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: you have to pull down a little plastic thing around.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And then when you get to, you check out and
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: you know, you do the self-checkout, but the barcodes are
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: really big. So it's not too difficult. Is this making sense?
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 29:54
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• 29:56
  Speaker 2: with the tiny barcode. You're You pass it, right, five times.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: It's driving you insane, right? But the big beep, and
• 30:02
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• 30:05
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• 30:07
  Speaker 2: much in there as possible, and it's like 50 pounds.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: It's wild. I mean, it's not wild, but you save.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So if you're thrifty as I am, you save a
• 30:15
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• 30:16
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• 33:11
  Speaker 1: so early on. Is pornography causing a problem in your life?
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. It's a real question. It has
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: in mind. It has at certain periods in my life.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: watching porno and everything, and watching porno was making me,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: it was ruining my life. It was ruining my life, man.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: It made me feel just so much shame, that's what
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: it did. Well, watching pornography has become commonplace today, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: oftentimes men will use porno to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: and depression. That's why I want to introduce you to
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: my friend, Stephen Woltz. Steve is the founder of Valor Recovery.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: He is a dear friend of mine. He is a
• 33:55
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• 34:00
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  Speaker 1: It's just the first step in trying to figure out
• 34:20
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• 34:38
  Speaker 1: The links will be on the YouTube. And again, there's
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: no commitment when you reach out to them. But I
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: promise you, only something positive will come from you reaching
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: out and figuring out what type of help, if any,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: could benefit you. Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to say, yeah,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I think that there's something very, the women here seem
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: like more confident in themselves.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: And it's not a judgment against American women, but it's
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: just something that I noticed. It just seems like they
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: have their own things going on. I think in America,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: sometimes it feels like, We've created this space where women
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: have to feel like this desperation to be seen on
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: social media sometimes. And I don't know if I feel
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that here. And I'm not even saying that. I'm not
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: judging the women. I'm just saying that that's just something
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: that I kind of feel like we've created in the
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: States more.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: But you live in Nashville, which is its own culture
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: and its own milieu, right?
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's quiet. It's like families. Yeah.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: A lot of country and Western music.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of country Western music. It's fine.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Why not New York or LA?
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I lived in LA for a bit.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: It was too much.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: It just, it stayed closed during the pandemic. And Nashville
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: was open. And I didn't want to start paying the
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: taxes in LA and have to, and have it be closed.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: And so I was like, I'm going to move to
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: a place that's open.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Is there a big opioid and heroin problem in Nashville?
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: In all of America, there is now.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I did a story in Huntington, West Virginia, and we
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: called it Heroin Town. And it was one of those places,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: you just arrive, nicest, friendliest people, and just a terrible, terrible.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: It might be better now, but back then, it was
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: about four years ago, five years ago.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: A lot of people sleeping and walking, kind of, sleepwalking?
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: A lot of people dying, yeah. on the streets, and
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: then they get Narcan'd, and then they pop back to life.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: And they're mainly just annoyed because they're like, I was
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: enjoying that, you know?
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, because you brought, oh, they were enjoying that.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you knocked the opioids off their receptors.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Damn.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And they're like, what'd you do that for?
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, damn it, let me ride. Yeah, let me ride again.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: It's almost like it's really become the new bull riding.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: It's like, I thought you were going to say bungee jumping,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: but yes. It's like, and then... And then some are like,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: excuse me, sir, have you taken anything? And like, no. Yeah.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: And they just can't keep that.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm just praying. Let me pray for a second.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's wild. Well, one of the things that really...
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: This is where I think.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I'm fine. Would you stop? It's really strange.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that started... They didn't even
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: prosecute that family. That did the opioid epidemic.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Sackler family.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: That's fucking.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: But they sued them. They got a civil suit, but they.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: But what does that mean? They're fucking riding around and
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: eating banana pudding or whatever.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Easily.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: While people are dying in the fucking. They even hit
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: a speed bump. They're like, driver, be careful. And like,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: that's an opioided man that we hit. You did it.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like. And once that's one of the
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: things that's really started to make people in America be like.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: there's nobody looking out for us anymore.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, big time.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: That was a huge part of it, I think.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: I bet. That book, by the way, Empire of Pain.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I haven't read that one.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Patrick Radden Keefe, brilliant book about how they started making
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: a kind of medical company, three brothers, and then the dynasty,
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: how they created various drugs, each of them in different
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: ways problematic, like with side effects, and then the mother
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: of all terrible drugs, which was the oxys and whatever.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And a lot of them live in Stade now, apparently.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Do you know Stade in Switzerland? Like it's a playground
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: of the wealthy.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Of the wealthy that are hiding from.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Wow.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: That'd be a good documentary.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you could get in there. They probably don't
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: want to speak. And then it must be tough for them.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: The museums are all having to give the money back
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: and take down... You know, because they made all these donations. Right.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: But I think you're right. I think the sense of
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: betrayal and the way in which... The way in which
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: it was cynically rolled out and the way in which
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: doctors were induced to over-prescribe and legislators were persuaded.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's unbelievable.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And sales reps were all incentivized to make inappropriate sales.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, everyone knows this now, but it was way
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: worse than the pandemic, right? In terms of the loss
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: of life.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Unbelievably worse. And to think that it didn't even hit
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: that big of a crescendo.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: I've never taken it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you? I've never taken it. I'm afraid.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Fentanyl. Yeah. You got that good fentanyl.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: God, they got it. That fenty, they call it. Is it?
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: That fenty. People just, yeah, just lay there.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: And then carfentanil. It's like each one. Do you know
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: about carfentanil? That's the elephant tranquilizer. It's like, it's a
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: hundred times stronger.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: A hundred times what?
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Than fentanyl. And fentanyl, if you touch it, You can overdose.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: You don't even have to take it.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: And so police officers are bagging it up and then
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: keeling over saying, this is the best day of my life.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: It's a sad. That's so sick. That's awful. And then,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: or inhaling it, right? When they used to break into
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: meth labs and then there was like, the officers were getting. Yeah.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: You were keeling over because they weren't wearing gas masks.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: You remember all of that?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Some of them weren't doing it on purpose. I bet
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: after that first day, they're like, yeah, I'm leaving this
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: at home. I'll be back in a month.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: You leave this one for me. I'll bag it up.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: You get on with the next hit. Yeah, no, it's awful.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: And then car fentanyl 100 times. It might be 10 times.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: You can Google it.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Even if it's one time.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Do you have a guy who can Google? Have you
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: got a Google guy like Joe does?
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: He can do it right over there.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Can you Google that?
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: He's an import.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Who's Joe's Google guy?
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Jamie.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Get Jamie. Jamie, can you check that?
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can you bring that up, dude? Black people in
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: wishing wells. Is that what you were looking for?
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: What's that? No, but it's like carfentanil is like, I
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: think it's a hundred times stronger.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: It's like, what are we doing? How could we, yeah,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: I think at that point people were like, no. And
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: so that, after that happened and then COVID happened, that's
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: one of the huge reasons nobody trusted any of the
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industry. Because everybody just seen, I have four friends
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: that died from fentanyl, right?
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Seriously.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Swear to God. Absolutely deceased.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: People you grew up with.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Off the face of the earth. Some from adulthood, but
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: some from childhood, right? Right.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Gone.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: That's just me. And I don't even run in those circles.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: So I can't even. So once COVID happened and then
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: it became like, oh, we're going to trust a pharmaceutical.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Fuck no. That's where a lot of America was. I
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't talk about that. But
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: to me, that was a huge link.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: That's wild.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Car fentanyl.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know. You shouldn't be in a car.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: First of all, if you're in a car.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: It's nothing to do with being in a car, right?
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: It's called car fentanyl. Well, then that's a strange name,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: isn't it? Yeah, it is a strange name.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, fair. Give me that.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah. Yeah, it's so strong, it's for cars. No,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: it isn't that.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: God damn, I just saw a couple of tow trucks doing....
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not what it is. Yeah, it's for elephants.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: They should call it something else. It's confusing. It's wild, though.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Dude, but yeah, those pills are insane.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Can I ask, because this is intrusive, so you must feel...
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: But you're in the fellowship. Are you allowed to talk
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: about that?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I was on cocaine was my deal.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Were you? Yeah. I liked a little bit of cocaine
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: and yeah, I liked cocaine. You know, like if you
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: would have some cocaine, then I would have some, hopefully.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: If I had some now, what would you say?
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: I would say, we'll take a break, boys.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: No, because you're in recovery.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I'm in recovery. No, I would say I would look
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: at it. I'd make sure it's cocaine. Right. And then
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I'd probably hand it back to you. And then a
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: few minutes later, though, here's what I would do a
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: few minutes later. I'd say, let me look at it again.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: How long are you clean? What's the term? How many
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: days clean are you?
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Two years.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Congrats.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, man. I had a couple years and then
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: went out. And it is what it is, you know.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: But I never had a drinking problem. I just had
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: a cocaine problem. Did you ever struggle with anything?
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you go by what the guidebooks tell you,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I probably drink. Too much? I drink more than you're
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: supposed to. They say 20, is it 21?
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: 20 beers a week?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: 21 units or 28. It doesn't seem like very many.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the first thing that a guy who
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: has a problem says.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: No, but come on.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: 21 beers a week?
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that isn't. 21 beers a week. That would be
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: a good week for me.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, then that's a good... That would be maybe if
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: England was playing in the.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: No, but as in like, that would be low. Like,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: in other words, I'd be like, oh, wow, I had
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: a great... I don't want to characterize it like... I
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: don't have... Okay, I'm sounding defensive. Check in with myself. No,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: I like to have a drink, you know, and I
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: feel like... I find it relaxes me.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Sir, we're going to need to see your license and registration.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm asking you for, sir. Okay, I understand.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: You don't drive... Never drive while you're drinking. No.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: No, I think, and it's more of the culture. In
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: the UK, it's way more of the culture. Ireland is
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: the drunkest thing I'd ever seen in my life. I
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: couldn't believe.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Did you do some shows over there?
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Did you have any guests? Were you doing podcast shows?
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Nope, no guests. It was too much quickly moving.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: They like a drink. We like it in Scotland. They
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: like a drink in England. What do we say about it?
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: My wife says I drink too much. I disagree.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: But they have to say that. They're taught to say
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: that as soon as they're born.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Do you think so?
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Your husband's going to drink too much. I think she
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: eats too many crisps. Well, I think it's very fair.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Which you call chips.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very fair.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: But I would never dream of saying that to her.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: No.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: She knows I think it.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Every now and then.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: You can't say that. Why is she allowed to say
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: you drink too much, but I can't say I think
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: you eat too many crisps? All the women are going
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: to be like, I used to like him and now
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I don't like him.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: No, the women love you. Any woman I've mentioned you.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: To, they absolutely love you. Oh, I appreciate that. But
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: then they'll feel like he's coercive. He's trying to stop
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Nancy from eating those chips. What's his problem with Nancy
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: eating chips? I think it's... As you get older, do
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: you find that you speak women's language a little better?
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I feel like I understand women better.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: You're more empathetic with women?
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: There's certain things you know that you don't ever say...
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: You just should never say, do you definitely want to
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: eat that? Just never say that.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: You should not even look at a piece of their food.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: No. Or look surprised or be like, seconds. Wow.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Really? Yeah.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Never do that. Also, if they say, do I look
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: good in this or in this? You say you look
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: amazing in both. Yeah.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Right. You know all this. Oh, yeah.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I think as you get older, you just become...
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: If you look at a senior citizen, most of them
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: could be a man or a woman. They often evolve
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: into the same haircut. Your gender really.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: You don't seem that old. You're imagining my wife and
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: thinking that she looks like a senior citizen. Is that
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: where your mind went?
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: You seem healthy and your wife looks hot in my imagination.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I do want to let you know that. Okay.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: But not... Is she naked?
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Nothing crazy. No, no, no. She's very well. She's working
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: at a library. Okay.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I wanted to do an anniversary present in a
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks. I can't remember how many years it
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: is because it's been so magical. It didn't make any sense.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: But my point is, I thought it'll be funny if
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: I do an AI picture of me and Nancy. having
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: a wonderful time together, celebrating our anniversary. You can put
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: that into AI now, right? And it'll make an amazing picture.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: But sometimes it's so over the top, it looks kind
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: of funny. So Louis and Nancy having a romantic meal
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: to celebrate their anniversary. And it was Louis Theroux. So
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: there was a guy who popped up in the picture
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: and his beautiful wife, Nancy, the guy looked like me,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: but she looked like a 70-year-old librarian. And I kept
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: having to fiddle the search terms to make her hot
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: like his much younger, very attractive wife, Nancy. But I
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: couldn't seem to get the AI to make her attractive.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: So I ended up just putting in Liv Tyler lookalike.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Ooh, let's get strong.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: And that did it.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I bummed a cigarette off her one night.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Did you? Yeah. She seems like a nice person.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: She was very nice. She gave me, I think she was, yeah,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: she gave me half of a menthol cigarette. I was like, yeah,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I kept it. I didn't even smell it. I took
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: a couple of hits off of it, then I put
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, I really thought that was nice of her.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: It's funny how you could tell a lot. Maybe not that,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: but you know, little encounters with people, trips passing in
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: the night, and that was enough.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: You get a sense.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You get a little bit of a sense. It's
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: funny that she smokes menthol, though.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: It shocked me.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: First time I smoked a menthol, it's like, this tastes
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: like it's good for me. Oh, yeah.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: That's that kind of mint, sort of refreshing.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Tastes like you just had washed under your arms. You're like, God,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: that's strong. Well, I could see a lot of black
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: guys would smoke them when I was growing up.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but according to legend.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: According to legend, I'll tell you straight up, Terry was
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: smoking than Mitch is doing. I met him. A lot
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: of the brothers would smoke them. Yeah, because they wanted
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: a stronger cigarette. I think black people are just a,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: they can, they're strong. They're just a tougher ilk.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: But haven't they banned, I'm not touching that, by the way. Menthol,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: haven't they banned menthol or not?
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they banned it or not, but
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: people are still doing it, unfortunately. And a lot of
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: redheads will smoke them too. So when you see, that's
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: sort of the, you know, if you look along the,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, redheads are kind of exotic, I would say.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: You know, if you look in the Bible, there's none
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Not if you're in Ireland, but kind of, yeah.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no redheads in the Bible.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: For real.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: So.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Have you really checked that?
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: 100%. Will you run that up? How many Gingers are
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: in the Bible? And also, so obviously they're man-made. I
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: think that's safe to say.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Right. Engineered.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: That's interesting. I feel like... I was just going to say,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like this is a good conversation, but I
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: also feel like I've talked a lot about kind of
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: stereotypical gender stuff, and I feel like people might think, oh,
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: he's made all those programs, and he's been to incredible
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: places and like that's what he's learned.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: I think they think we're just joking around and having fun.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I think that's what they think.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: That's what I think. But I think there's also snippets
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: of reality. I think when you talk with people like
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: guys who are creatives like yourself, there's– I think even
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: you probably surprise yourself sometimes with what's reality maybe at
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: times and what's your imagination and a little bit of
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: both maybe, I don't know.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. My thing is I'd like to feel
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: like I'm wise and I'd like to feel like I've
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: gone through life and I figured something out and I've
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: been to extraordinary places and delved deep into human psychology
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: and I've arrived like with some elder So some elder wisdom.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: But I haven't.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: But I think people respect that you're on the journey,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: no doubt.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm still on the journey.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people see that. If they
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: pitch you, they pitch you on the side of the
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Himalayas with a backpack on.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you. And I think part of my gift, if
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I may put it like that, you've really seen some
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: of my programs. That's a thrill. Where would you have
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: seen them?
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I watched a new documentary, which I do want
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: to talk about.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: We should shout that out.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about that, yeah.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not in that one. I'm executive producer of that one.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: If it's the one I'm thinking of, tell them you
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: love me on Netflix. Tell them you love me.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, it was great.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's dark.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: It was fat. I did not see some of the
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: turn that it took.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: It's extraordinary. Yeah. Can I set it up very briefly?
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you. No, because I want
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: people to go watch it because it really was good.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: It's on Netflix.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: It really was good.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: It's like a true crime kind of psychological thriller drama.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: You will love it. If you like true crime type
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: of stuff, I think you will absolutely love this.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: In a twisty turny, I can't believe what. I'm watching
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: kind of a way it's about a philosophy professor and
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: a very disabled young black guy who's non-verbal and has
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: always been assumed to have a cognitive significant cognitive impairment.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: And she, she's a philosophy professor and she starts working
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: with him and appears to unlock all kinds of special
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: abilities and his family, the young guy, Derek, his family
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: is obviously thrilled. He starts going to college. He's having
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: philosophical conversations with her. I don't know if he's writing poetry,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: but he's sort of writing essays. And they have this
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: meeting of minds. And according to her version, they fall
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: in love and they strike up a physical relationship. But
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: then questions start being raised about the nature of the
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: technique that she's using to open up his abilities, his
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: alleged abilities. And then the abilities come under question. And
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: his family, Derek's family, start feeling actually he doesn't have
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: the special abilities. And this isn't a thrilling story about
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: love across the divide. It's actually abuse. And she gets
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: prosecuted and sent to prison. So all the way along,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: you're trying to figure out what really happened.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: It's on. Yeah, it blew my mind because there's so
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: many little things. Well, and one of the things that
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: you have to know or that helps to know if
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: you're a listener is that one of the ways that
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: the teacher, Anna Stubblefield is her name, that she would
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: help Derek, because he basically, at first you see him
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: or you think of him and you think there's not
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: a real him in there.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to say that.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: No, let's not put it that way.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: But my people, listen, no, I don't know. I'm trying
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: my best. But when you look at him, there's a
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: him in there, but you don't know how much of
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: him there is. And it's hard for us to see
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of times The person that is inside sometimes
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: of a person that has a severe physical disability. Yeah.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: He's there, but he's, and he just got a profound
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: disability and you don't know the nature of what he's
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: capable of.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: Right. And, and she starts, she starts teaching. He, she
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: starts becoming, she, the facilitate, the way that they, that
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: they start to communicate, it's called facilitated.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Facilitated communication. In essence, what happens is she's called Anna.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: I can't get you to say Anna, but that's how
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: she says it. And Derek's mum's called Daisy. And it
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: becomes almost a custody battle between them. And the first
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: inkling that something's wrong is that Anna starts saying, like,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Daisy will put some meat and potatoes down. And Anna
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: will go like, well, Derek really doesn't like meat. He's
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: a vegetarian. He's a vegetarian. And his mom's like, what?
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: And he doesn't listen. And she'll put gospel music on
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: there from a churchy family. And Anna goes like, Derek
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: really doesn't like gospel. He prefers classical. And he drinks
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: red wine. And he prefers Cabernet. And all these sort
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: of markers of what might be construed as sort of
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: elite or slightly refined.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't even think about that.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a sort of class thing like, And
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: so Day's like, well, gospel's not good enough for him anymore.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Like she feels offended. Like the son that she's always
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: known is being kind of taken away from her. And
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: it's almost like a power play. Like I know him
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: better than, I'm not saying that it's not on a meat.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: But that's certainly how it would come across to a mother.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: And especially, I think also a black mother.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: Who's like, he's not going to eat my cooking.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Because he's a vegetarian. Like he only eats nut cutlets now.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. He only eats like shortbreads or whatever.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: He eats corn. And I'm not trying to mischaracterize him.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Not at all. We're joking around. He only has a
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: bouillabaisse or whatever.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: But she said he was a vegetarian.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's insane. First of all, to say that
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: a black guy's a vegetarian is absolutely, nobody's going to
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: believe that, dude. Name 70 black vegetarians, dude. Okay, maybe
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Arthur Ashe was one. But that's it. Nobody's buying that shit.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: So out of the gate, the mom was like, hmm.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: So that's where it starts. There's a glitch.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: I see what you're saying.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: And it spins out. And then when she says, and
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: then they have the moment where they announce to Daisy
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: and to Derek's brother, John, that they're having a relationship.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: And they sit down and Anna and Derek sit down
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: with John and Daisy and say like, I don't know.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: I think they might have been excited to break the news.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: But it's a sensitive thing saying like, not only are we,
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: because they weren't saying, do we have, I'd like permission
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: to ask for your son's hand in marriage. It wasn't
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: like that was like, by the way, we're doing it.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Like we're already.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: They said, we've been shagging a bit.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Basically. And we're in love.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: I don't think they used the term shagging, but it
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: was along those lines.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: And I think it felt to Daisy and John like
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: they still had a protective, because the kids, he's not
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: a kid, he's a young man. The young man is vulnerable, right?
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: So they don't know, and also they don't want to
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: think about him having adventurous sexual relations with the woman
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: who's basically got a caretaking role. And it's a professional relationship.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: It's a complicated power dynamic. So the brother, John, he's
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: so shocked he goes and throws up. He's like, it
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: cuts him to the soul. Like he feels so confused
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: and befuddled by the relationship. I mean, a lot of
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: it is just also the awkwardness of, you know, the
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: bigger conversation is around. Well, I was going to say disability.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Is that people who are very disabled, I say very,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: but people who can't walk and in fact maybe can't
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: actually feed themselves or who need round-the-clock assistance with day-to-day
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: life and may have real cognitive delays, like where they
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: seem to be incapable. They'll watch cartoons and enjoy life, but...
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: They're not going to be reading books and stuff. A
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: lot of people don't want to think about the sexual relations.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: It's almost like they're infantilized and it's seen as inappropriate.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: That they have sexual desires. Right. But they do. Of
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: course they do because they're full-grown people, right?
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to- To state the obvious. And especially, well,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: one of the things you have to let people know too,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: I think, is the way that Anna or Anna- would communicate.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: There's like this sort of typewriter type of contraption. It's
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: almost like a first typewriter you would give a child
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: to learn to do typing on.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Like a speak and spell.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like a speak and spell. And she would kind
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: of guide his hand or hold his hand because his
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: hand would often kind of vibrate a lot. So she
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: would hold his hand as he... would write out the
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: different things he wanted to say. So right there, it's
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: just such a like, who is the right, who is,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: is it mostly him? Is she guiding based on things
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: she wants? Is she even unknowingly guiding based on things
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: that she may want because there's desires inside of us?
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: So the allegation, the contention by the skeptics would be that,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: because she had long conversations with him using that technique,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: a little like a Ouija board would be the other analogy.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: If you wanted to, say that it was dubious and non-scientific,
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: but the allegation would be that she was in essence
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: having long conversations with herself and producing her ideal love partner,
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: like someone who likes all the same thing.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: You know what i mean like a fan fiction almost
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: writing her own fan fiction or something.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Creating and you know i'll leave it to people because
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: that it's sort of viewers could go on the journey
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: and figure out what they think happened but um one
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: version of events is that she was you're projecting a
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: kind of idealized version And using Derek almost as a prop.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Like a Geppetto and a Pinocchio type.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: She was puppeteering. Yeah. A real life human used as
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: a prop.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: But then it's so strange. Right. And certainly possible for sure.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: It feels so strange to... Want to go spend all
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: that time with someone.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I should shout. I need to mention the director,
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Nick August Perna, who did a brilliant job.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's terrific. And as much as I'm here talking
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: about it, I was an executive producer on it, but
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: it's his project. He did it.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: Bring him up, Nick August Perna.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: Nick August Perna.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: August. Let's get a picture of the man. There we go.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: There he is.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Perna.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: There he is. What a handsome man. Look at his eyes.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: I want to look like that.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Is he Bangladeshi, you think?
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: I think he, I don't know his, you know, I
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: never asked. I don't think August Perna sounds like a
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Bangladeshi name, but I love that he's got beautiful swarthy
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: skin and piercing blue eyes and a thick beard. I
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: used to have a beard like that, and then I
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: got alopecia.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: Did you really?
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my beard fell out.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. I know.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: And my hair has gone thin. I have patches in
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: my hair. That's an exclusive. I've never spoken about that
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: on a podcast.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: About having alopecia?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: And is it a real thing you have to deal
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: with all the time?
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Well, it's always there. It's there when I look in
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: the mirror. And if I touch my hair, I used
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: to feel kind of thick, lustrous locks, like gorgeous, just enjoyable.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Like a bit like your hair.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: It's thin though. It starts to get thin.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: And then little holes appear. Can you see that? And
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: my beard, it's coming back, but it's white. I feel
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: like one of those guys who's seen a ghost and
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: their hair goes white and falls out.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that sounds very like a Scooby-Doo. It's stressful, yeah. Yeah,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: does it stress you out or do you care that much?
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: You already have a family. You have a wife already.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: I care a bit because I think my wife cares.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: And the last thing I need is to be even
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: less attractive to her.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have another crisp Lindsay or whatever.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Nancy, like, he's coercive. She doesn't sound like that.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: He's coercive and he's almost bald. He's got patches in
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: his hair. You need to leave him. He's no good
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Right. And that's your daughter saying that. Exactly.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: He's no good for you. Your wife's friends, you've got
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: that to look forward to is like the toxic friend.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: You're too good for him. Oh, yeah.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: Every girlfriend I've ever had has had that friend, for sure.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: And they were right.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: They were right. She is too good for me.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: You're all too good for us when it really comes
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: down to it.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: She's so much better looking than I am. But I
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: was on TV when I met her, so it was
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: adjusted for celebrity.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it happens. You know what? One thing that I
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: thought was interesting about Tell Them You Love Me, is
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: that right?
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: So she kind of has the ability to guide his
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: hand back. possibly right or probably does some ability to guide.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: It she has the ability and whether she's doing it
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: is the.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: Question right and only she kind of knows yeah like
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: there's some studies in there that that a doctor or
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: a scientist does it helps you get a little bit
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: of inclination but even then you're not fully sure because
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: some people say like like we're the keys to each
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: other's locks right like when we maybe when we join
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: hands yeah something more magical can happen you know But
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: then also I start to think about the ownership now
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: of social media and these bigger corporations that own a
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: lot of the platforms that we communicate on because they
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: can dictate if we're even allowed to say certain things.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: It's like you might write what you really want to say,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: but at some point they can say, well, we understand
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: what you'd like to say, but you're only allowed– to
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: say these things. Are you okay if we format it
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: for that? And you have to say yes. And if
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: you hit no, it just asks you the question again.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Seriously? I mean, I just... Does that happen? Is that real?
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: It just feels like that's very much where we're headed. Like,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: they give you a certain amount of emojis. You don't
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: get all of them.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: True.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: If you want to feel belittled, you have to pay $ 2, 000
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: a month for that emoji. I just wonder if that's where...
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: What color are you in your emojis? Like when you,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: you know, the smiley face, did you opt for the
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: white one? Because I'm sticking with yellow and increasingly I
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: wonder if.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: It's very Asian.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: That's a bold choice.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: A lot of Asians would be upset about it too.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: Would they though? Because it's a bright, puce yellow. It's
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: no yellow that's found in the human condition.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I would agree with you.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: What emoji? Because you know, there's a certain point where
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: the first time you use a reaction, it gives you
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: a choice. So now you have a dilemma. Do I
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: go white? Do I go off-white? Do I go beige?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on what neighborhood I'm driving through
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: at the time sometimes.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, because I'll be like, you know, this is
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: what's going on around here.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: And you're half Nicaraguan. So you must, did you go
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: white or off white?
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I'll go off white. I'll go Middle Eastern sometimes.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: So you keep choosing different ones?
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll throw a sand brother out there, dude. Yeah,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I'll do it all, man. Because you got to keep
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: people on the edge. I mean, I even choose the
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: pregnant guy nowadays. You know? It's like, what are we
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: even fucking doing?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Is there a pregnant guy?
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: There's a fucking pregnant guy. What are we doing? They're
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: trying to legalize all that, you know, but do you
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: worry about that, about like censorship and what will be allowed?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: I've said this before, but it's like, it used to
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: be like you wrote on the paper, right? And now
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: you can still write on the paper, but what if
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: the piece of paper?
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, you can.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: But what if the paper, what if they own, what
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: if I think.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: I got shadow banned? I don't know what for.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Well, here you go.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know what for either that or it's so boring.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: That they were like, we got to stop putting, we
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: got to, he's making the platform look bad. His tweets
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: are so banal. Just dial them right down. He's making everyone,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: you know, when I did Joe Rogan's podcast, I did
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: it twice. And when he moved to Spotify, do you
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: remember that big deal? And they gave him like 10,000 million,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: whatever dollars. Yeah. And some of them they took off,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: like they took some episodes.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: They took one of yours off?
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: So they took the most contentious, like these are two podcasts.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: We can't put this on Spotify. This is too inflammatory.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: And one of mine was taken off. But I think
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: it was taken off because I was so boring. I
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: just can't, because I said it's nothing. But I loved
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: that I might be too spicy. And I was like,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: they've taken me down. You know, like I've been made,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: they made me, they canceled me. But it was, I
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: think it was the first time I did Rogan, I
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: didn't know how big he was. And you know how
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: he kind of plays a reactive game? Like, in other words,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: he doesn't go on and say, like, I've watched all
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: your programs. I was going to do an English accent.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. Here's Joe Rogan. I've watched all
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: your programs and I've done a lot of research. And
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: he's more like, hey, welcome. How's it going? And I
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: was like, I'm very reactive as well. So it was
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: kind of like, how are you doing? I'm like, good.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: How are you doing?
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: And then it was like two hours went by and
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: it kind of got into a groove a bit.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's probably fine. I haven't got.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: I listened to it. The one I listened to, I
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: thought was fine.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: That was good. The second one I went back and
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I get it.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe that was it.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The second one was fine. So I'm quite glad
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: that they... But your point was about... So yeah, I
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: think they shadow banned me on Twitter. I can't prove it. Instagram,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: I'm okay. I can put a picture of my... I
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: could just... I could just do a selfie and put
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: it on Instagram and it goes viral. I don't know why.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: But if I say, I've got alopecia and I'm feeling sad,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: like cynical, what do they call that?
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I'll put three black dude emojis in there if you
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: say that. They're just to spice things up.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: You think that would make a difference?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, dude. You bring a brother in, it adds
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: some heat to the situation.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: Because I've listened to your content and you go close
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: to the line, I'm like, I better check out. Like,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: what's the closest Theo's got to being canceled?
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Some of it.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: But you've never been canceled.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: No, I've never been canceled. You know, like, I don't know. Like,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of times I'm kind of, like,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: just having a good time.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: You get a free pass, I think, because you're a
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: comedian and people are like, he's just having, he's goofing around.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: And you're like, people know. I feel like a lot
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: of times, like you're saying, even just running in a
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Liv Tyler for 30 seconds and getting a menthol offer.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: You sometimes can know where people.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: But didn't you used to work out with David Duke?
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: They're harder at it. Yeah. And yeah, we just, all
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: we did was fitness, dude.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: Did you like, what's it called? Did you spot him?
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: Is that the term? Does that mean something?
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it means anything beyond the fact
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: that you're right there assisting him in that moment.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: Would he be like, hey, Theo, would you spot me?
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: What could he bench?
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: He was strong.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Was he?
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: He was strong. I mean, he.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Did you try and be, were you trying to be
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: a positive influence on him or would that have been inappropriate?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: No. I was using steroids, I think, at the time.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to freaking be Jack out there, dude.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: I was trying to flirt with his chick, dude. His
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: girl was so... She was just a gorgeous... She didn't
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: do anything at the restaurant. Like, she worked there, but
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if she knew what her job was.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: She was just so pretty. People would just do everything
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: for her, you know? like one of those maidens or whatever,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: Did you, but did you, you would have been what, 19, 20? Yeah.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Did you, and you knew he was like politically?
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I'd seen, they used to have signs in Louisiana.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: It was David Duke versus Edwin Edwards. And he was
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: a famed historical, famed political figure in Louisiana who had
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: stolen tons of money, like most of them. And his,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: the campaign slogan was, don't vote for the racist, vote
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: for the crook. Those were the posters.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised he authorized that.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: But I think people would rather be stolen from. At
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: the time, people would rather be stolen from than have
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: a little bit of racism be going on.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: But Duke got a majority of the white vote.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: He might have done okay.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. That's a good question. What was the
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: runoff vote between David Duke and Edwin Edwards?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, Duke, he got the whatever, was
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: it the Republican nomination? Like, he ran for Senate.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Did he really?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then got the majority of the white vote
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: in the race, in the final race.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: When I knew him, he was just doing chest and tris,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: you know? Like, that's what he was doing.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: Was he?
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't even know, yeah.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: How do you, yeah, I'm trying to work out and be,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get more hench. As you get older,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: you lose muscle mass.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: I know, that's scary about being alive.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: I want to be attractive for my wife.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, Nancy.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, Nancy. What does it say? I can't even read that.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: But basically, oh, was he the Democrat? No.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: In 75, he lost to Kenneth Osterberger. In 79, he... Look,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: he was.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: The Republican, Bennett Johnson. What is that? He was the incumbent.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: He got 40. Duke got 43% to 53. Yeah, not bad.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: United States Senate election. I mean, that's wild.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: At that time, was he still that guy, though? He
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: may have been.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: He was.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of racism in the South,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: you know? And there's a lot of racism that goes
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: both ways in the South, too. There's a lot of
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: black folks that do not like white people.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: For real?
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: Tons, dude. Tons. It always gets looked at as the
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: other way only, but there's a lot of.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: But they're making up for lost time.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: I agree that there's some of that in there for sure.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: They're like, I agree.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: We got to get Simone back. But I think- The
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: documentary's called, no.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: One of the tough things you have now is there's
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: so much crime in a lot of the black communities
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: and it's very unfortunate.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: I've made documentaries about gangster rap.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: I made a couple.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I wish they were just rapping. Unfortunately, a lot
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: of these men are shooting each other for no reason.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: Rapping seems like the only... It's heartbreaking, man.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Two of my good friends have died. My black friends
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: have died from being killed.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: It's the only part of show business where.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: Died from being killed, obviously, but sorry, died from just
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: miscellaneous other men shooting them for no reason.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: It seems like it's the only branch of show business
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: where actually killing someone is not necessarily a career ender.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: Rap music?
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. That's a good call. Right, because you look at
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: Gucci Mane. He killed someone. They said, yeah, well, it
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: was self-defense. Yeah. And no one really minded.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what's his name? Just shot, killed someone at
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: a Walmart not long ago.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: Who was that? Alec Baldwin? Huh?
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: Again? That would be like, okay.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's hilarious, dude. Thank you for that. Okay. That
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: was awesome, dude. Alec Baldwin. Every week he's fucking shooting somebody.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: He wasn't even shooting a movie.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: And I think that's his defense. He's like, I thought
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: we were shooting a movie. Come on, that's crazy.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: That's too much.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I love how he's on trial for this. They hand
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: him a gun. He fucking shoots it. And the person
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: who gave it to him, it's just the whole thing
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: is just bad news. But yeah, somebody just killed somebody
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: at a Walmart and they're getting off. Oh, DaBaby did.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, DaBaby. Yeah.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: And I heard he was in the adult section. That's
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: the crazy part. Okay, that's enough of that.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: There we go. I was going to say, though.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: It's a great documentary that you made.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the truth is, one of the things that
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: his mom, Daisy, says at the end is like, but
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: now he still hasn't recovered. He masturbates. And she basically
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: blames Anna for the fact that she's caught Derek jacking off.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: And you're thinking, like, he's a 35-year-old man living at home.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: What kind of world is she living in that she
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: thinks that's pathological? Do you know what I mean? Right. Like,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: what else would he be doing at home?
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: You know, in his bedroom by himself all day with
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: no girlfriend.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just put two extra Ottomans in the middle
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: of the room and let him figure it out, you know,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you. Yeah. It's what a lot
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: of kids need, you know, if he's at that stage
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: in his well-being.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Or send in, like, I don't know if this is, like,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: considered kosher or not, but aren't there nurses who can
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: do that? And by the way, a nurse can be
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: a man or a woman, but aren't there nurses that
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: can go in and isn't that part of therapy?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I would agree.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: That you would be allowed, like someone would- Do.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: A milking of them.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't see how that's not a service.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: You can get, oh, dude, you can get somebody to
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: deliver you like a damn power tools at midnight, but
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: I can't get somebody to come over and relieve my
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: cousin Ricky or something at two in the afternoon. I
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: totally agree with you, though.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: They do that in Holland. You know how Holland's ahead
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: on all this stuff? They do that, I think, in Belgium, probably.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: Bring that up if anybody's milking. I don't know what
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: the term is, really. If some people are exasperating the... I.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: Think it's called... There is a word for it. There's
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: a polite word. There's a kind of medical word that
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: makes it sound okay.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: Something very British, yeah. If people are.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, manual relief or assisted ejaculation.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Assisted ejaculation. Bring that up. Actually, no, that's going to fucking.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: And I'm 22 days off of pornography right now. Are you? Oh,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: thank you. Thank God. Longest I've been in a long time.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: How does that feel? And you're in a hotel too.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Are you in a B & B?
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: I'm in a hotel. Yeah. It doesn't matter what kind
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: of place I'm in. I'll bust. Really?
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: But I haven't been.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: 22 days off of masturbation. Something like that, and off
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: of pornography. I just have gotten into this other program.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: I've got to check in and make sure. I just
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: don't want to do it anymore. I wasn't having a
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: problem with it, but it just had been a long
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: part of my life where it's like, oh, this is habitual,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: and I don't like it.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: How does it make you feel not doing it?
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: It makes me feel more empowered, and it makes me
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: feel proud. Like a little bit, there's a part of
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: me that feels proud of myself. Is that crazy to
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: say that?
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: You could get a bumper sticker or something. I wonder
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: the best way of honoring that.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Like a little pin. Don't bump me too hard.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: Proudly, what is it? Proudly 50 days non-jacking off. What
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: would be, yeah. Is there a support group for that?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: There are. There is, yeah. Because a lot of it
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: is just about like just making sure you're not looking
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: at pornography. I just want that stuff influencing my thoughts
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: and feelings. Because then you start to like whenever.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: It intrudes into daily life.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: 100%. Well, when you're engaged in sex, you think of
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: it in like frames of shot. You're not even involved
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: in like a real connection with someone, you know? And
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: after years of that and stuff, it's just, for me,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: it was really unhealthy.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: So what are your vices now then?
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: Vaping, probably. Drawing pictures of tits a lot of times.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: Like if I'm sitting around and I'm with a napkin
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: or something, I notice I'll just look down and suddenly
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: there's like six or seven sets of breasts or whatever,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: tits or whatever. Some people call them tits. I call
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: them that. Yeah. What else? Having some chocolates probably.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: You don't drink at all?
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: Mm-mm.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: What about, are you California sober?
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: Mm-mm.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: You know that term.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can still smoke pot.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and take mushrooms too.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: No, I've done like the microdosing or whatever. And I've
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: done ayahuasca, you know? Have you? And that's really fascinating.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: That's fascinating. Do you want to see something you never
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: thought could happen on earth? Go try that. It's like
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: getting abducted by aliens. It's almost as crazy as that.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: I'm scared. You've never been abducted by aliens.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Which is, I think, what any good
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: man should answer, Louis. Right.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: It's possible. I'm a little scared of the ayahuasca because
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: the people I've spoken to, they're like, yeah, it is
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: really heavy. And they'll say, and the person next to me,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: they were like, it was a pretty good trip, but
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: the person next to me was screaming and thought they
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: were dying. So that kind of harshed my mellow a
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: little bit. And I'm thinking, I might be that.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that person could have also just been Scottish as well,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: you know, because I know they can get very verbose
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: at times. Do you think so? Yeah, the Scots. Well,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: the whole thing is fascinating to me about the British. No,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: I think you would love it, man.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: Did we get anything on carfentanil? 10,000 times more powerful
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: than morphine. 100 times more potent than fentanyl. I told you.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: The presence of carfentanil in illicit U.S. drug markets is
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: cause for concern as. And that's the nice thing. If
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: you're going to do cocaine, come to England.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: Look at the chemical formula. It's C24H20N203.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: I mean... Look up a little bit more carfentanil. Go
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: to Wikipedia right there.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: Who would... You would just have to walk past it.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Effects and side effects in humans are similar to those
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: of other opioids and include euphoria, relaxation, pain relief, pupil constriction, sedation,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: slowed heart rate, low blood pressure, lower body temperature. You know,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of people choke to death when they take
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: these drugs because they then... They're on it. They think
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: they're okay. They eat. The muscles in their throat don't work. Right.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: And then they choke.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: And they choke to death. So you just imagine you're
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: having a piece of chicken and you love it. And
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: you can't swallow it. You tried to swallow it. You
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: did the normal. And your fucking neck breaks down.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: That's hideous. You wouldn't think you'd be that hungry. You
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? It's like I'm higher than I've
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: ever been. But what I really want is a chicken sandwich.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: Seems a strange, you know what I mean?
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really does.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: Like I'm still not happy.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: No, I think, yeah, that's a very, but every now
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: and then you'll be shocked sometimes when you'll try to
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: do some food when you're on. You'll be surprised. You're like, oh,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't expect. That's the worst. I remember I'd be
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: all coked up or something and make a nice meal
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: and then I'd want to eat it. Just fucking do
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: more drugs.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: But it's exciting being on Netflix with the doc. And
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: for us, like it took us six years to make this.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, that was just to, and I joined Nick,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: like Nick had already been, the director had already been
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: making it for a couple of years. Wow. So like
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: it's an eight, nine year journey. And to finally land it,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: not just in the UK, because it came out here first,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: but on a big streamer like Netflix. It's huge. Feels
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: big for us. Feels like a thrill. I know you've
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: got your specials on Netflix. They're the big game. They're
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: the big game in town now.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're good. It's definitely.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: Did you have a good experience with them?
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. They actually made us, they told
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: the fans like that were coming to shoot at the
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: comedy special, the last one that they had to have
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: COVID vaccinations like literally three days before last time. So,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: or maybe even no joke, two days before. And I
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: thought that that was kind of fucking weird.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So it wasn't enough that you get tested. You
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: actually had to get vaxxed.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: For real.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: And so that made a lot of people be like,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: fuck them, you know?
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, people love Netflix because we're addicted to it.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think people, there's, well,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: here's one of the things I noticed personally. So I
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: went to the last Blockbuster. Did you ever have Blockbuster
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: videos here? Of course. Beautiful places, right?
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to use it a lot. That was
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: Netflix before Netflix.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: 100%. And it's still functioning. You can go in there.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: It looks just like the ones you used to have.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: There's a kind of disgruntled person behind the desk. One
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: thing I noticed about that blockbuster is the autonomy you
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: have when you're, I don't know if autonomy is a word,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: but the amount of just you, when you're walking around looking,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: there's so many options of things to look at and see.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I forgot about this. I'd love to
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: see this. Look at this. What about this? Whereas once
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: you get onto one of the streamers, It's really only
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: what they want you to see.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: Unless you know exactly what you're looking for.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: But it's so hard for our brain to keep all
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: that catalog. So for them to have all that catalog,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: but you don't really get to peruse it really. It
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: was a total different experience. And the joy you felt
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: kind of finding something a little bit physically like, oh,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: let's watch this. And things you never even thought existed anymore.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: So then you kind of get channeled into only what
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: is happening now in a way so I think it's
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: also going to be tougher for movies to become classics
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: or like build up that indie fervor sometimes.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: You're definitely a victim of the algorithm and that's a
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: soft kind of influence it's not censorship obviously but what
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: it is is a kind of curating of your experience
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: obviously they want you to watch as much as possible
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: so they don't want to feed you things you don't
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: like but it keeps you in your lane a little
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: bit is the risk but maybe they'll have like When
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: they get further along with things like VR, you will
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: be able to kind of go inside the TV, right?
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: And look around on the shelves.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: That would be amazing.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: Don't you think?
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: You would hope that that's what they're headed towards because, yeah,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: just that experience was so, it just brought me back to, oh,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: I have some say in what I choose. Whereas this
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: felt like I don't have as much say.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: I was one of those guys who would rent something
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: and then weeks would go by and I would still
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: not have watched it. I think I had Blade Runner
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: for like three weeks.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Everyone did.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: That gets expensive.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, it would stack up. And you'd be embarrassed
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: taking it back.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you'd say, come on, give me a break.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: And sometimes they would bring it down a little bit.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they give you some snow caps or something. I'm like,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: I need a fucking financial break here.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: But do you remember, you're probably too young, but when
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: videos first came along and it was a new technology,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: it was kind of like before Blockbuster, everyone... Everyone thought
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: I could make money with this. So you would pop
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: into the dry cleaners and then have a little video
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: section or the 7-Eleven or like the local candy shop, right?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: And they'd have a little like 15 video library. You
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know that.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was weird.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: And then there was a winnowing and they're like, you know,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: we should, this is ridiculous. We need to have some
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: place that just does that.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: We had a place called Pat's Shrimp and Video, and
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: you could get you a pound of shrimp and get
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: you a movie over there.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: In Covington. Yeah.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: It was nice, dude. Get you a little bit of shrimp,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: get you a little film or something.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: You know what you'll find over here is that I
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: think the chocolate's a little bit better. 100%. And if
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: you go in, and no disrespect, and maybe they're one
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: of your sponsors, but Hershey's chocolate, I'm not a big
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: fan of.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: Me neither, honestly, and I'll say that out loud.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, fuck those guys.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just shit chocolate. What are you fucking making
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: for people?
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: I actually think, and you can check this, they could
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: not legally sell that as chocolate in the EU.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: Because they'd be like, there's not enough chocolate in the chocolate.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: I'm serious. Oh, 100%. You know, because the cocoa content
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: would be, they'd be like, this is Vegulet. We can
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: call it Vegulet.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: If you want to call it Hershey's Vegulet, but we
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: can't call it chocolate.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: Because it tastes, it's very sweet, but it doesn't have
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: the richness.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like we can call it African-American butter if you want,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: you know? And like, well, it doesn't need to be racialized.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: We just need it to be actual chocolate, you know? Yeah.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: You would think though, also in America, that has had
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of history with African-Americans, you think at least
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: they would put... The appropriate amount of African-American in the chocolate, dude.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of shit that pisses me off. Hershey's
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: lawsuit sparked British revolt for superior Cadbury chocolate. But I
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: will say this. When you walk into some of the
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: chocolatiers that are in Britain, it freaks you out. It
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: feels like you are. Oh, yeah. It feels regal. It
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: feels royal. It feels imperial.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: And if you go to Belgium, forget about it. Really? Yes.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's ridiculous. Like, it's actually, it's like being
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: in Tiffany's, like a jewelry store. It's so redolent of
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: class and kind of gourmet values. And the things are exquisite. Like,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: they just make beautiful objects out of the chalk. Presentations,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: yeah The presentation is off the scale Yeah, we have
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: Have you tried Revels? Do you know what? Try some
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: Revels while you're over here Is it good? It's a
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: mixture of different I just like You don't know what
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: you're going to get When you put your hand in
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: And then they used to have Like they have a
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: raisin one Like a crunchy kind of honeycomb one There'd
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: be an orange one A coffee one And they used
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: to have a peanut one Oh yeah And then they
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: had to They discontinued that because of the allergy issues.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but those people, we don't need them on Earth,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: People would say, like, the joke was, like, you know,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: people with allergies would use it like it was Russian roulette. Oh,
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: I love that. You know, I have one. I don't
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: know if this is going to kill me or not.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: The thrill. I don't know if anyone actually would do that.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: But a little part, I'm not going to be the
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: guy who's like, is health and safety gone mad? I mean,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: we don't want people to die from eating a chocolate,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: but a little part of me was like, so we
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: can't have fucking chocolate? peanut revels anymore just.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: Because that's a huge part i think at a certain
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: point you have to go with the status quo.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: I was in a movie theater once and and i
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: was i had my uh i think i had pick
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: and mix you know what that is okay you just
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: select different sweets and candies you know a bit of
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: them bit of them but you make your own bag
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: okay I was like, this is going to be, and
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: I sat down to eat the sweets, and the woman
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: in front of me says, sorry, just to say, my
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: son has a peanut allergy, so if you wouldn't eat
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: any of your sweets, I'd appreciate it.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: So, of course, I'm like, oh, of course, yeah, not
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: a problem. I don't want someone to die because of
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: me in the theater, but I was also thinking like, what,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: I can't eat my sweets?
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, that's incredible. Who do they think you are?
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: John Wilkes Booth or something? It's not your fucking responsibility
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: to keep this kid alive. It's her responsibility.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: What if I go and sit over there? No.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: No that's not good enough okay dude yeah that kind
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: of stuff you know.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: What i did and we can cut this bit out.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: No we'll keep it in.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: Well when i went to the i went to far
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: away in the theater and.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: Then i ate them yeah And part of you eat
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: them out of spite almost in a bit. Of course.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: No, I ate them because I wanted to eat them.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but some of you, with each one, you were like, oh,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: that little motherfucker couldn't handle these. Yeah, you're just firing
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: them over towards him. Oh, man. Let me think about
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: what else. Oh, do you think, what's on your mind
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: these days, Louis? Like, what's something when you think.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: About- I've got a podcast on Spotify. I went the
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: Rogan route. Are you on Spotify? Yes. Are you? Well,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: you're only on Spotify. No, I don't.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: I don't own, I don't have a deal.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: But they can put you on there.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: And they don't pay you. Nope. Wow.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: I know you're making it sound like a horrible situation,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: but we are all, but we just put it on
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: there just to be everywhere.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You're not a Spotify pod. I'm a Spotify podcast.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, nice.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: The Louis Theroux podcast. Um, so I've been doing that. Um,
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: and then I've got new shows coming up. I've got
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: stuff that's on. Oh, I mean, my big thing is
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: I diversified, so I started making more stuff behind the scenes.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: So I've got a series. Do you remember the Challenger explosion?
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people said those people are still
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: alive recently.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: Where are they?
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: Where would they be?
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: Bring some of that up. People have been saying that.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: Can you say Challenger, people still alive?
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: We did a whole.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: Do you have it? Is this what yours is about?
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: It's not about, according to us, they're dead. According to
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: our research. Did I say Challenger? I meant Columbia.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, Columbia. Sorry.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: I fucked up.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: Columbia is the one that was in 2001. Oh, yeah,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: those people are dead. The Challenger people, I think, are alive, though.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: Challenger is the one that exploded on takeoff. Columbia exploded
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: on reentry. No. Yeah, and not only that, they had,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say they knew, but they had an inkling
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: that something might go wrong, and they decided not to
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: tell the astronauts.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: And so the question at the heart of it is,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: what could they have done differently? Could they have sent
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: another rocket up and taken the people out in a
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: spacewalk and bring them back home in the other rocket,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: like send up a Russian rocket? Right. Could they have
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: fixed it, done a spacewalk and fixed the bit that
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: they thought might be damaged? So there's a lot of
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: questions around that. how it could have been handled. So,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: so I, I actually, I wasn't an exec on it,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: but my company made that. We're very proud of that series.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: Uh, and then we've got one about Lockerbie and we
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: do a lot of heavy stuff. Do you know what
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: Lockerbie is?
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: Lockerbie, that's not the Loch Ness monster.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: Is it? No, but it is in Scotland. It was a,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: it was a village and a plane, it was a
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: Pan Am plane that was flying from London to New York,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: I believe, and had a lot of, uh, American and
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: British people on it, including a whole bunch of students from,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: Syracuse University, I believe. And it was bombed. And there's
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of conspiracy theories around that or theories as
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: to what happened. So we made a four-part documentary. That
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: one's going to be on CNN. So anyway, I've been
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: making a ton of different... And do you do any
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: behind-the-scenes stuff? Do you have people you're mentoring or do
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: you have a production team?
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: No, right now we've just been doing this sort of thing.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: You know, I would like to, sometimes I think about
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: doing some different, like I've had just some thoughts, you know,
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: about stuff. You know, like sometimes maybe about like Alzheimer's,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: learning about that maybe.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: I made a documentary about that.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: You did?
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting, yeah. It was called Extreme Love Dementia
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: and about the ways, yeah, it's about how we can
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: best look after people with dementia.
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: Um a lot of them are very happy like not
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: to sound weird i.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: Think it's fine if they think they're younger or whatever
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: you know i don't know but it's just about making
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: them okay and comfortable you know.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah you just got to let them be them i
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: mean that sounds a bit glib but you know if
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: they say one of them was a he was a
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: doctor no he was a dentist and he was in
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: this memory support facility in in phoenix arizona uh surrounded
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: by nurses and other very old people and fairly old
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: people and He'd been a military dentist, and he was like,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: I'm on this base. I'm a dentist. I'm doing something dental.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: I know that. I'm like, really? Because you mustn't contradict
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: them because that creates distress.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, confusion.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: So you're like, okay. And then you change the subject.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: So he thought he was still working as a dentist
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: fixing people's teeth. And if he was distressed, you would
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: say to him, hey, Gary, would you mind taking a
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: look at my teeth? And then he'd do like, he'd
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: do a dental inspection and then he'd forget what was
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: bothering him. So look, this, in this bit, we can
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: see he's trying to get out. He's like, I want
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: to leave. I want to go through this door, but
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: it says push and the alarm will sound and he's
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: getting agitated. And then I'm like, Hey, Gary, here we go.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: Would you take a quick look at my teeth? Yes, sir.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: I would.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: They're not very clean though.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I know you're a Brit aren't you?
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, he might be, yeah.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: Sounds like somebody that's checking in on animals, too. Like
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: he could be breeding dogs or whatever. Some of the
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: commentary he gave there. But the point being, he's happy
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: and he's living in his own world. He's in a
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: fictional reality of his own memories. Yeah. And it's kind
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: of amazing.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do something called like children of the porn, right?
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: It was like children that were conceived on pornography sets
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: during the shootings.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: Right. I think that's not many though. Do you think?
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: I think you got to get at least seven or
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: eight of them. You only need a decent batch.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: Hard to prove as well because- If you're a working
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: porn performer, you're going to be doing at least three
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: or four scenes a week, maybe more.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: Maybe not during a strike season. Maybe if you went
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: and looked during a strike possibly.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: During a scare when it's like someone tests positive and
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: they shut down.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: So there were only a couple of shoots that year,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: that month. I don't know. Just something that I thought about.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: Have you got an OnlyFans? No, I don't.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: I don't have it and I'm glad I don't. What
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: else did I think about? Oh, morning sex. Maybe a
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: documentary about that. How did we get here? You know?
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: Like sex because you're bereaved and you're in mourning?
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: No, morning sex. No, you're talking about like funeral, post-funeral
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: sex or whatever?
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: I can't get out of my grief.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: But you mean sex in the morning?
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: In the morning, yeah. What's the angle? I just think,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: I don't care what it is. It's just probably just,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: I think fucking somebody right after they woke up is
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: pretty sick, I think.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: Sick as in good? No. Oh, because sick means good now.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Well, I think it just, no, it went back.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: Now it's bad again.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm coasting out of that, all of that stuff.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty old.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it just, also part of you loses
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: interest in some of that as well.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm on the other side of the hill. Yeah.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: Well, your penis, you've done all the tricks you can
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: do with it.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to stay alive.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I'm retreating. You know what
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: I mean? Like gradually everything is, it's about, we just
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: need to focus on getting to the next day. Yeah.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: Do you feel accomplished?
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You're not supposed to say yes, but I do.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: I do because.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: It's a really cool thing to say. I think it's important.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think I, you know, people have done way more, obviously,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: stuff than me, but because I've been so lucky with
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: the career that I've had, and I think maybe because
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: of when I came along, it was like there was
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: various things happening in TV and documentaries, and it was
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: kind of like it just, there was an opening. Like,
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: there was no one who'd done kind of like, well,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: there just wasn't that guy. Like, he's... kind of a
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: little bit cerebral, but he likes to joke around and
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: he's curious about this and he's a good listener and
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: he makes, and then the BBC gave me like, they
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: just keep making those programs and they didn't really even
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: check up on me. And suddenly like 15 years went
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: by and I'd made 50 programs and I basically, I'd
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: covered everything. I mean, there's still stuff out there, but
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: there's so much I've, you know, I've done a prison,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: I've done jails, I've done a maximum security mental hospital
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: for pedophiles. I've done most of the high crime areas,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: like let's say most of, but I've done Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Johannesburg, Lagos.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: I've covered so much. I feel like I've had this
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: huge privilege, this gift, and it's pretty cool. I don't
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: want that to sound weird.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think it does. I don't know. Well, it's
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: just a lot of times, especially I think in the US,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: we don't feel that you never hear someone talk about, okay,
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: I feel... accomplished but you know it's always just like
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: this never-ending thing that is.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: But i'm trying to make myself okay with slowing down
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: as well obviously by one metric no like i'm not
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: you know i grew up in a household where we
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: valued shakespeare me again welcome back and so for me
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: i accomplished my dad's a writer yeah uh he's a
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: travel writer he lives in hawaii and also cape cod
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: in the summer and he's written like 60 or 70
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: novels and travel books like he's off the charts accomplished
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: um so and you know and the people we looked
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: up to when i was growing up people like um
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: you know, just great literary figures like James Joyce or F.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: Scott Fitzgerald.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: John Irving.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: John Irving. He wouldn't have been, he would have been
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: too close in age to my dad. So my dad
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: would have probably, I never read John Irving. But if
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: it was, let's say, Hemingway or Faulkner, right? I'm mentioning
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: a Southern writer. Do you know who Charles Portis is?
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: He wrote True Grit.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: And he was from, I believe, Little Rock, Arkansas. He's
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: a Southerner and he's dead now. brilliant writer. Everything he
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: wrote is a kind of classic of a kind. So
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: he was just someone who my dad was like, you
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: should read Charles Porter's True Grits Well-Known, but his other
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: books are equally good, if not better. So I read
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: three of his books. But my point is just, and
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: I totally recommend them. One is called Norwood. Another one
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: is called The Dog of the South. And So by
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: that metric, no, I'm not accomplished because I'm not a
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: gifted writer. I'm just a TV presenter. I'm not even
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: really a documentary maker, really. Like I'm not a director.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: I'm the guy who works with a director and we say, hey,
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: I'd love to go to a prison. And then the
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: team says, we'll make that happen for you. And they
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: go and, you know, they figure out how we get in.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: And then we get amazing access for two, three weeks, right?
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: Or in a cult or in a, or in the
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: world of adult film, or the far right, some far
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: right group.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: But you're the right amount of curious, though.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: But I'm curious, and in a sense, by being a
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: little bit scattershot, a little bit not ready for prime time,
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: a little bit unfocused, maybe a tiny bit, I don't
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: know what, maybe ADHD, I'm not sure what it is,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: I don't want to medicalize it, but whatever that is,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: like a, I get impatient, I get twitchy. And then,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: so the people who are focused and on it can
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: get me in there. And by dint of their work,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: I've created, I've been part of making these programs.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: It's cool.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been trying to row back from saying I'm accomplished.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: I already regret saying that.
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: No, I don't feel, I feel like it's, you very
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: lightly say.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: I feel very lucky, yeah.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: You very lightly say. Well, most people view you as
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: extremely accomplished. So I just think it's interesting to hear
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on that. Um, the pedophilia, man, what'd you
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: learn about it? Cause now sometimes people are saying that it's,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: you know, the next big business or whatever. It's like
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: the next Apple computer or whatever. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like it's like in America, there's like, there's,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: there's that Nambla group. There's people trying to like legalize it.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: They're saying that.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: The Romans did it. Yeah. Romans did it. Greeks, I
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: think famously was Greeks, wasn't it? Um, and they said
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: that was normal in those days. And then, Um, there
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: was Nambla. I remember seeing a documentary when I was
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: coming up, I used to live in New York and
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: there was a place called Kim's video talking about blockbuster.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: Kim's was like, it was way beyond blockbuster. They had
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: everything and they had every kind of film and they
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: were organized by director. They'd be Kurosawa, Spielberg, Jean Renoir, like,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: or like some obscure stuff that you wouldn't see anywhere else.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: You know, go into blockbuster and say, where's your Kurosawa section?
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: they'd be like, you know, oh, sorry.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: We'll give you some snow cats.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: But Kim's had everything. And in the 90s, when I
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: was coming up, I was working as a print journalist,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: and you'd go down to Kim's, and it was like
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: an education in film. And they had a documentary section
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: that had incredible, like one film they had that I
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: want to mention. You may even have seen it. It
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: was called Dream Deceivers. Have you heard about it? And
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: it was about two kids who listened to a lot
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: of– Is it Black Sabbath? No, Judas Priest. And they
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: had a song called Suicide Solution. And the two kids decide, like,
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: they think the lyrics are saying, suicide solution, just do it.
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: And so they're like, yeah, we need to commit suicide.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: I know, it's very heavy.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: And they kill themselves.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah, and then one of them doesn't manage to
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: do it. He just shoots off the lower half of
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: his face. So he's interviewed in the documentary.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: I got to see that.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: But he can't really speak properly. And then Judas Priest
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: are prosecuted by the kid's parents, I think, saying like,
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: it's your fault. It's because of the lyrics. And then
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: Rob Halford from Judas Priest is on the witness stand
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: explaining like, it's not, you know, we just made a song.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: He's from Birmingham, isn't he? So we just made a
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: song and it wasn't supposed to tell anyone. I can't.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's very fair.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: And I remember seeing that and thinking, this is so
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: fucked up. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: really curious about. And it's dark and it's upsetting. And
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: there's the kid. He's died since then. Oh, man.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: I've got to learn about that. We just had a
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: group on called the Suicide Boys. And they had a
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: pact when they were young that if they didn't make it,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: that they were going to commit suicide.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: Make it as what?
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: As white rappers. So, I mean, it was a fucking...
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: Let's just say the deck was stacked against him.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: But there's some pretty good... I feel like down south, there's...
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: Is it Bubba Sparks?
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: Bubba Sparks, he was on one time. Bubba Sparks is
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: a really neat guy.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: Is he still going?
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: He had some pill addiction. He still does do some work, though.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: He still does work some.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot of white rappers out of the
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: UK now.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I would say... White and black, very talented.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: In fact, the UK drill scene.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: Central Sea?
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: Central Sea. Did you have him on?
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: Central Sea, no. I thought about reaching out to him, but.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: Do it.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: We had Ed Sheeran and KSI and you, and I
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: felt like it was a good. That's a great mix.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: I feel very flattered to be in that company. I mean,
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: I feel very flattered to be in the company.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: But on the Kim's, because you were talking about pedophiles
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: being the next big thing in tech, which I didn't
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: fully understand.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I said that exactly.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: You said it was going to be the next Apple product.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I was just saying it's become this hot
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: thing in America. It's like... It just seems like they
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: try to make it seem more norm.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: Well, so the thing was, I was going to say,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: there's this documentary in Kim's, in the documentary section, and
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: it was about Nambla. It's called Chicken Hawk. All I
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: was going to say on that was, so back in
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: the day, Nambla was big. Allen Ginsberg, the poet, I'm
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: not trying to throw shade on him or whatever. Brilliant
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: beat poet, much beloved. But he was a member of Nambla,
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: I believe. You can check that. But, and Howard Stern
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: in the 90s always used to have, you know how
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: you would have people on who, he had a Klan
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: guy who would come on and he'd make fun of him.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: And he had a Nambla guy who would have on.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: So my point is just like Nambla's been around for
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: a long time. Chicken Hawk, Men Who Love Boys. It's
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: a very weird documentary where they spend time with a
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: couple of guys or one guy from Nambla and they're
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: just talking to him, figuring out what makes him tick,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: what's going on with him. Did you confirm the Allen Ginsberg?
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's look back and just bring up Allen Ginsberg.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: I just want to make sure there were references.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't want to make someone part of Nambla
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: if they're not. He was their celebrity, like they had
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: one celebrity. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Association
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: with Nambla, was a supporter and a member. Good enough.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: He's a North American man-boy love association. So was Michael
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: Jackson in Nambla?
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure he definitely performed at some of
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: their events. You would think, yeah.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: Have you ever said, like, I went on Twitter and said,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: come on, we all know Michael Jackson was a pedophile.
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: We've seen the program. And even before that, there was
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: no shortage of evidence. Like, his music's still great, obviously.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: But let's not be silly. Let's not be in denial
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: about what's happening. And you get so much comeback from that.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: On Twitter, like on X, from that. Does that surprise you?
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: No, I'll say, I'm going to tweet that as soon
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: as we get out of here. Yeah. Just to remind people.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was really surprised. There's people who are still like,
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: you know, like, that's so shocking that you would say
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: that about Michael. I'm like, what? Which Michael Jackson are
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: you talking about?
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: Dude, who are you talking about?
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: So I don't think they're trying to normalize, but my perception,
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: when I went to Coalinga, it's a maximum security... mental
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: hospital for sexually violent predators is the term. And they
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: go around in beige suits and it's a hospital, so
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: they can't punish the men there, right? It's a legal requirement.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: It's a hospital. So they're not incarcerated on the grounds
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: of serving a sentence. They've done at least two significant
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: terms in prison for sexual offenses. And then two psychiatrists
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: have said, Yeah, we're not ready for you to come out.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: And they're like, hang on, I've done my time. What
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: are you talking about? I've done 15 years. And they're like, yeah,
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: but you're mentally ill. And they're like, I'm not mentally ill.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: They're like, I'm just a pedophile. That's their- Oh, I see.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: They're like, I don't have delusions, which is, in a
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: weird way, is a kind of medical, arguably a psychiatric
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: gray area.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: Right, because they're saying, I know I'm a pedophile.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: It's not like I'm in the, yeah, like, oh, I'm-
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: not a pedophile.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah or some of them are like and i don't
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: mean to be like but they're like i mean i
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: uh because some of them are rapists and they're like
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: but i'm a rapist why are you putting me in
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: like But I did my time for that. And also,
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: why are you putting me in with these pedophiles, right?
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: And they're saying I committed a crime, but that doesn't
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: mean I can't. And why are you letting out murderers,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: but you won't let me out? But the argument goes, well,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: because you're mentally ill, according to our metrics, due to
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: being a pedophile. So anyway, so they're there, and they're like, well,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to. And if you spend long enough here,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: And do enough treatment, we'll let you out. And they're like, no,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: you won't. No, you won't. So none of them, very
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: few of them proportionally are doing the treatment. But they
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: can't be punished. So they play in jazz combos. They're
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: playing tennis, doing art therapy. They can have porn. They
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: can vote. I'm going to vote for Obama. You know
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: what I mean? They're living lives like in... It's too
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: strong to say country club style, but like a relatively
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: pleasant mental facility.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: And everyone in there is a pedophile? Or a rapist.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: They're a predator, sexual predator.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: Sexually violent predator. The term violent implies like, oh, they
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: beat you up. But some of it's grooming. It's a
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: kind of legal definition of that. And then they play softball.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: They play a lot of softball.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Yeah. Now, if they live stream that, people
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: would pay to watch that.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: And they sell their hair. Would you think so? I
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: And a heartbeat.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: Watching pedophiles play softball?
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: It looks a lot like anyone else.
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but still, every now and then it's going to
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: get a little weird and people are like, oh, look
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: at that. You know? People would pay. You'd be surprised,
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: I think, at what people would pay for. I wouldn't
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: pay for it, I don't think. I would look at
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: the highlights or whatever if it was on.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: You'll be like on ESPN5.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: Like one of the real... You know what I mean?
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: And lawnmower races.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: With the dog shows on there.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: Dog shows and lawnmower races. I'm saying lawnmower races like
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: it's French, but that's probably mainstream. You know what I mean?
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: And yeah, there they are.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: That's the worst. Do you think this is a born
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: sickness or a learned thing, do you think?
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: I would say, according to what I was told... A
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: bit of both, I think. But I think there's a
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: component where it's what they term a paraphilia. Like it's just,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: it's like you can't actually cure it. You know, the
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: term cure any more than any other. I always thought
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: like it's like a sexual orientation, which isn't in any
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: way to attempt to normalize it because it's just the
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: idea is like, actually, this is just something they are.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: not even how, like something they are. So, and they need,
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: and even like, and what they have to, and what
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: they do is they convince themselves that there's no victims,
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: like that the kids are okay with it. A bit
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: like Michael Jackson, right? My theory with Michael Jackson is
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: that the whole time he was trying to tell us
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: what he was, like every interview, he would say like,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: that's I sleep in a bed with kids. It's love.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: What's wrong with that? You know, like, in other words, like,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: he was always trying to come out. You know what
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: In his Diane Sawyer interview or his Michael, with Martin,
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: his Martin Bashir interview, there might have been, was there
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: an Oprah one? He just wouldn't shut up about it.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it had to get, yeah, he had
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: to find some way for it to let people know.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: He probably was a nice guy who also had this affliction,
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: you know? That's the craziest thing about a lot of things.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: It seems like that you investigate a lot of the
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: stuff you investigate or these people, it's not like they're,
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: some of them could be practicing.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: I think the kids took, I think it took the
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: kids a while to realize they'd been abused as well.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: They thought they were just having fun with Michael Jackson.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: I don't mean to sound like. No.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I think.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think it all just goes to what
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: you believe is okay. You don't know. You know what
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: I'm saying? Like. Yes, in the bigger scope of things, yes,
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: it seems it's really messed up and we were able
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: to see that. But at the time, if you're there
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: and you're in it and nobody's told you that it's
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: bad or you haven't told anybody that it's happened.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: Can I tell you, I've never said this before, but
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: I heard a theory that, you know, Michael Jackson was
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: on an episode of The Simpsons?
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: And they pulled it. It was an uncredited guest cameo
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: as a mentally ill man who thinks he's Michael Jackson. Mm-hmm.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: Does that ring a bell? It's a really great episode.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: You can't see it now. They pulled it. But the
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: theory I heard was that he agreed to be on
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: The Simpsons on the one condition, that he could spend
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: the night with Bart Simpson. So they had to write
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: that into the script.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: So in the episode, he spends the night with Bart.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: And they stay up all night writing a song together
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 2: called Happy Birthday... It's called Happy Birthday Lisa, I think.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, this looks like it right here. Yeah. Wow.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: I was like, can I spend the night with Bart
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: in the episode?
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. Because why would he do that though? Unless
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: he's trying to in some way normalize adults and kids
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: spending the night together.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: Unless he's trying to eat my shorts, you know, or whatever. God,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: it's crazy. Yeah, that's what I wonder with like a
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: lot of the Epstein stuff and stuff. It's like, is
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: there this overall master arcing thing that's like leading us
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: into this like depravity world? Or did people always used
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: to behave that way? I don't know.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: I feel like it was always, it used to be like,
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: you know, in this country, in the UK, we used
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: to have page three goals and you could be 16.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: and be a page three girl. And, you know, that's,
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: it's arguably porn, like they're topless. They don't do it anymore. But,
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: you know, 16 is very young. And for like to
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: have that in your national newspaper, there's a topless 16
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: year old, they changed the law in around 2003. My
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: point is just that, I think in a weird way,
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: it was more normal in the past to fail to
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: to fail to police in appropriate relation like there was
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: more sense of like you know when you look at
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: all the roman polanski stuff yeah or stuff that was
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: happening in um the 60s and 70s i think nowadays
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: i almost feel like um the epstein thing is a
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: distraction i mean i might be being naive i feel
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: like they're trying to make out obviously he was a
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: terrible guy right who was grooming and molesting teenagers but
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: um I almost feel like they're trying to make us
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: all feel like there's this VIP, and maybe there are,
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: but I feel like most of that stuff's actually happening
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: in plain... Look at the stuff that's going on in
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: the regular porn industry. You know what I mean? They
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: don't really need to hide it. Yeah, that's part of
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: the truth.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah, well, it's part of it.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's like... Well, I think it starts
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: to make people think that, okay, the rich and elite
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: are like.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: On the island? I don't really... I mean, the idea
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: of the island's kind of.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: Appealing, like, Right. Island always adds mystique.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it adds a mystique. He had a private island.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: What are they doing out there?
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: What are they doing? And then people would fly out there.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: I think they were probably out there just eating chicken
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: wings and.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: Being rich.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: Being rich. And it was probably quite boring.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: Unless there was a group of dudes. Because I've been
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: around some real rich people. And you start... You know,
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of them do like, they'll go on like
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: these kind of sex kind of- Really? Romps and tours,
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: nothing with.
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: I've heard that and about some of the tech CEOs
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: that they get together.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: And they go to Romania or just different places and
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: do some weird shit.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: And shoot backpackers like in hostel.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I haven't heard that, but I would- How they.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: Hunt humans because everything else is too tame for them
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: at that point.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, I would believe it though. I'd believe that that
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: goes on somewhere. Because they don't value, some people at
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: certain levels, they don't value human life at all, I
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: don't think.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: The scary part is, like, it's a bit like Squid Game.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: If you've got like a hundred desperate people, like if
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: they were addicted to carfentanil or something, and you said like,
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: one of you is going to, you're all going to
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: be hunted. Of the hundred of you, maybe three are
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: going to get shot and killed. But the rest of
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: you will make a great, like a really big paycheck.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: You would probably not have any trouble finding guys to agree.
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: Don't you think? 100%. I mean, in a way, it's
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: kind of like what boxing is, in a way. Because
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: they're saying like, you're going to get brain damage, probably,
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: or a lot of you are, but you'll get a
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: great payday. Yeah. And until you're about 50, you probably
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: won't notice a lot of the side effects. I'm not
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: trying to be down on boxing. I've got friends who
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: are boxers. But we all know that there's brain side effects.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, man. Just interesting to think about stuff, you know?
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: Did you ever get to meet Michael Jackson or no?
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: I shook his hand.
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: He did yeah what did his hand feel like.
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: Very soft hmm he I made a film it was
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: the only time I think maybe.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah you made a documentary about something about yeah it was.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: Called uh Louie and Michael or Louie Michael and Martin
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: or it was around the time Martin Bashir was doing
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: his interview and I was trying to get an interview
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: it's the only time I've done one where it was
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: in search of so uh I didn't get that close,
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: but I did, I did interview Joe. Joe was his dad.
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: The one who he said messed with his head. The
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: one who, because Joe would call him all kinds of names.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: That he, that later on people alleged that was part
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: of why he got his surgery. Because he would call
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: him pepper nose. He said his nose. No, I'm not
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: going to do an impression of Joe. That's a bridge
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: too far.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: But he was, he just like.
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: He was kind of a bully. Yeah. Then Martin Bashir
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: got fired. He was the guy who did the interview
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: with Princess Diana. Do you know all of that? And
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: then it turned out he got it on false pretenses
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: by forging a document. And that was why Princess Diana
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: thought the intelligence services were snooping on her based on that.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: So she agreed to do an interview with Martin Bashir.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: There's Majestic Magnificent. So he was Michael's personal magician.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: Wow, so that right there.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: So you could say like, what, that's the best you
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: could do was talk to his magician? But you could
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 2: also say like, well, who has a magician? That's pretty
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: cool to have a personal magician.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: God, he must have been just so brokenhearted or in
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: so much self-pity he also and brokenhearted.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: Who, Michael?
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or something just deranged with him. Yeah, to have
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: a personal magician, you need someone.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: But Muhammad Ali had a personal magician.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, he did?
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: Same guy, I think. Or maybe it wasn't his personal magic.
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, he lived with the Jacksons. I could never
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: quite remember.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: Is this guy still alive?
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: He's dead, sadly. He was a good magician.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: Look at that.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: Do you see that? And then Joe, my thing with,
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: I thought, I said to Joe, what's going on with Michael?
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: You know, the angle I went in was like, he
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: looks like he needs help. Like he seems, he's a
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: brilliant artist, but he seems troubled. He's taking surgery, surgery
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: too far. And I don't see a healthy relationship in
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: his life. And in fact, the relationships he did have,
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: you know, with Lisa Marie Presley and what was the,
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: Debbie Rowe. Debbie Rowe was the other one.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: She was like the receptionist for his dermatologist, Arnie Klein.
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: I think that's right. Anyway, I was like, wouldn't you
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: like to see Michael? And this was the slightly troll-like
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: thing I did, although maybe not. I said, you know,
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: don't you want to see Michael happy, like settled in
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: a consenting and happy relationship with a man or woman?
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: And what did he say? I think I said boyfriend,
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: a boyfriend or girlfriend. He said, boyfriend? I was like, yeah,
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: boyfriend or girlfriend. Boyfriend and then he went off he
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: did you say Michael's gay you say Michael's gay now
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: and then they kind of went off and freaked out
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: That I might have a suggested.
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: That he's homosexual.
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: That he was a gay man. He was a homosexual
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: man He could have been I think probably Like if
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: he'd had if he'd been able to channel his sexual
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: energy into consenting relationships with men They've been fine then
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: you know, it's all good. I mean a lot I
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: think of some pedophiles when you meet them, like the
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: guys at Coalinga, they're not the most attractive men, right?
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: What a surprise. And actually when I've met pedophiles, I've
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: interviewed them also doing prison sentences at San Quentin. And
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of times you feel like, okay, these are
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: guys who have socially maladapted, who for them like to
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: have sex with, I don't mean to belittle it or
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: like in any way trivialize it, but that's just an
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: opportunity for them because children are weak and easily influenced.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. No, it does. Yeah, it's like some people
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: prey on women that are weak and easily influenced. Some
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: people prey on whatever they can that's weak and easily
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: influenced or whatever they're able to assert themselves onto.
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know... It's heartbreaking. Yeah.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: We had a decent amount of pedophiles in our area.
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: Not enough to make a softball team or anything, but
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: we certainly... They certainly had a group of them around.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: Was it known... In those days, we called them dirty
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: old men, right?
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: And it was called stranger danger. Yeah. And it was,
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: tell your men to don't talk to strangers. Or they
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: were called flashes. Oh, yeah. Do you know what that is?
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I saw a flash once at a wine
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: store when I was a kid. My uncle dropped me
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: off at a wine store and a woman flashed me.
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: A woman? Yeah.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: And what did you, how old were you?
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: Probably 12.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: But I remember, and were you upset by it?
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It was kind of like by some,
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've had an affinity for, cabernet ever since
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: i know that you know for sure dude what does
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: that mean i don't know it's just i remember being
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: in this wine store and if somebody brings up a
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: damn cabernet.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: Because you were in a wine store when.
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah i mean she just and i just didn't and
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: my uncle was driving me after and i told him
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: and he went back to the wine store to look
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: for the lady dude what a fucking pervert.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: Because he wanted to see for.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: Sure he's a pervert dude his wife was on pills
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: too what was she wearing Just a kind of a
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: coat or something and nothing under.
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: Was she a customer in the store or she worked there?
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't look and see if she had a receipt
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: or anything on her. I know she was not, I
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: don't think, she did not seem like an employee. So
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: I think she was just somebody traveling around showing her
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: body to children, you know?
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: Did you like it?
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: I was pretty... Or.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 2: Were you confused by it? Were you upset?
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think I was upset. I think I was like,
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: All right then.
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, well, oh. well hello yeah oh i didn't know
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: if i you know what i felt like now that
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: i really i felt like i didn't know if i
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: was supposed to do something like am i supposed to
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: do something now and then i felt like i didn't
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: respond quick enough to maybe if i was supposed to
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: do something and then i felt bad about myself.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: A cousin of mine was he was this is his
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 2: story to tell but i'll tell it anyway he was
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: in Washington, D.C., not that that matters.
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, there was a lot of pedophiles over there.
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: And a guy called him over to his car, him
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: and his friend. I guess they would have been maybe
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: 11 or 12. And the guy was in his car,
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: and he was exposing himself in his lap. But things
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: happen quick, and it was so decontextualized. My cousin thought
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 2: that he was showing him his gerbil. So he was like, oh,
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: that's nice. That's cute. And then they went off. And
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: then afterwards they were like, hang on, that wasn't a gerbil.
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 2: But you just wonder whether that was the reaction the
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: guy was hoping for. You know, oh, that's nice. Or
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: whether he would have preferred they were a little freaked out. Yeah.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: Like, what the fuck? They got to call my penis
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: a gerbil?
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: What an asshole.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: In a way, like, that was the best reaction because
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not, you know, I didn't phase him.
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: I had a guy come up to me once and
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: he was, this was when I was 12 and I
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: was outside at WH Smith in Putney and He's like,
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: and I used to like smiling at older people. I thought,
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 2: I just thought it was.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're supposed to do it. Yeah.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: And like, you know, they're nice and you're nice. And
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: sometimes they'll give you a little bit of money. Like,
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 2: here's 10p for being a good boy. Do you know
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Here's a butterscotch or something.
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go get yourself some sweets. And then you go, oh,
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: I can't take that. And they go, yes, you can.
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, you can.
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 2: My family's old. Yeah, you go and take 10. Here's
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: another 20p. Buy yourself some sweets. But this guy, I
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: smiled at him and he said, I bet you've got
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: a big one. I said, I still smile because I
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: hadn't taken it in. I said, I bet you've got
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: a big one with lots of hairs on. And I
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: smiled and then I went off and then I was like, eh.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I was quite.
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: Upset by it.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: We used to have a dude, he'd give you 10 bucks, right?
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: And he'd be like 40 feet away. He would show
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: you his butthole and all you had to do was
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: look at it.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: And you got the $ 10.
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing? That's a lot of money too.
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a crazy amount of money. We're like,
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: come back tomorrow.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: How long would he be standing there for? It was
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: just a quick like, okay. Or how did you know
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: when he'd finished?
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: He wasn't touching himself. He would kind of bend over
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: and pull his buttocks apart.
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: And that's how he would see us and make sure
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: that we were looking.
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: Through your legs?
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: Through his legs, yeah. And we would kind of.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: Through his legs.
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: He would show us his buttock.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got it, yeah.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: And you'd have to just do that. And then... Yeah,
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: you got the 10 bucks. We had a lot of
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: gays that were drug-induced homosexuality in our area. And it
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: would happen behind the rest areas along the interstate. And
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: the men back there would get in the river back
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: there and make out and be high on drugs.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: Were they doing it for the drugs? Or were they
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: already gay?
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: I think it was a mix.
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: It was a big mix.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: Because it seemed like guys that maybe weren't- A.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: Lot of that stuff's fluid.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 2: Like guys in prison, right? And then you're like, well,
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: you know, there's no gay men in prison, really. I mean,
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: they're all gay. There's no straight men.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: Depends on how you look. Yeah.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you might be in Sherwood, or where
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: did Christopher Robin live? What was that place called?
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: Sherwood Forest.
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: Robin Hood.
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: Robin Hood, yeah.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: You might be in the 100 Acre Wilderness.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, 100-acre wood, okay.
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you might not be a, you know, I
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: don't know. I had a good analogy. I can't figure
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: it out.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: But I went to the doctor once because my bum
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 2: was itchy, and a few weeks went by, and then
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: it was still itchy, and I was like, this is weird. Like,
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe there's something wrong with it. You know,
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: you Google it and I couldn't find it. So I
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 2: went to the doctor and I said, oh, God, I've
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: got a very itchy bum. And I think he was French.
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: But he said, I'll take a look at it. And
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: then he looked at it. And then that's already quite embarrassing.
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, the worst.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: And then I had the strong impression that he thought
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: there was nothing. He couldn't see anything wrong with it.
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: So I had the strong impression he thought I was
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: just doing it for thrills. Oh. And then what am
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: I supposed to do about it? He said, I can't
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: see anything. I said, okay, well, thanks for taking a look.
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 2: And it was such an unsatisfactory encounter. Oh, of course.
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: And you can't call later and be like, hey, can
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 1: you let me talk to that guy again?
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: Apologize.
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to say, hey, look, man, there
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: was nothing weird. Because then that's weird.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: It's so hard to follow up.
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: Have you ever had testicle problems where they have to
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 2: look at your balls and then?
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: No, I had erection problems where they would like shoot
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: this stuff into your wiener to see if it worked
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: good or not. Really? And it works immediately, but literally
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: the guy is like with a needle just right into
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: your wiener. And it is harrowing, dude.
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: Why did you– do you know why you had that?
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: Just a lot of stage fright, just fright from being
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: a kid, just constant nervousness, you know. And it would
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 1: just like– Yeah, that was harrowing, dude.
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 2: So they just needed to find out that it worked.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 1: They want to know that the ballast tanks or whatever work,
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: you know? And so they would shoot it up. And
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, it works. So it's in my head.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: It's not in my body, you know?
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 2: And was it okay after that?
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was hit or miss for a couple years,
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: but it got better. Past few years, it's gotten better.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: Just you get older, things wear off. Even like you're saying,
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: like your desire, all that confusion, all the fucking, you
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: don't know. the paint comes off the car and you're like,
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: all right, we'll just keep driving it.
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: Keep going. Some porn performers use that.
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, shooting them up?
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they shoot it up. Because that works every time
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: and it's quick.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 1: I would hate that though.
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: But they used to. I don't think they do. I
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: think now the porn industry is so, it's all only
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: fans and private people. The big set where there's pressure
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 2: on and people are standing around I did a documentary
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: way back, one of the first episodes of my series,
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: Weird Weekends, and we followed a young guy called JJ
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: on his first big shoot. And I'd read a lot
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 2: about how people get anxiety and, and then everyone's standing
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: around thinking like we can't shoot anything until you basically.
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: JJ gets ready to rock.
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: You get wood, that's the term. And so, and we
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: were like, we're going to be there filming. Okay, JJ.
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: And I didn't mean really to put a hex on him,
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: but because of the nature of documentary filmmaking, You sort
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: of slightly, I don't know if even hoping is a
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: strong word, but you are aware that you're going to,
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: if you get, you're going to get a better scene
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: if he fails to get wood. And there he was
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: and he couldn't get wood.
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: Couldn't get it.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: Was he talking to it? That's the worst when you
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: start talking to your own penis.
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 2: He was kind of, I don't think he was talking
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: to it, but I remember a lot of the people,
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: he was trying to get something going and it was
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: just not happening.
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: God, I've been there, buddy.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: What a nightmare.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: But nothing on the line. He had something on the line.
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: That's him more recently. I saw him again. He was
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 2: living in Ukraine then, I think.
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 1: It was about.
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: Five years ago, maybe four years. But back then, he
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: was telling me about his techniques, and he'd done three scenes,
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: and this was his first. He didn't want to mess
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: up on his first big studio shoot.
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: It was his first big one.
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a sad situation.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: That's a tough go. There's one thing I want to
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: ask you about before we leave. Oh, they just had
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: a social media ban. They wanted to put a social
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: media disclaimer. I was looking at this. I want to
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: see what you thought about this, Louis. Can you see
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 1: that in the news articles? There's a social media, a
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: Surgeon General's warning on social media. Can you open that up?
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, I heard about this. Yeah, is that here or
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 2: in America or both?
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: Not sure.
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 2: They're basically campaigning to put a... a surgeon's advisory or a,
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: a kind of health warning, a surgeon general demands warning
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: label on social media apps. And they're trying to make
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 2: it more lock, more sort of child proof. So that
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: actually 13 year old, cause you can get it. Like
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: my eight year old got on Tik TOK when we
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: weren't paying attention, we were on holiday. He started a
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 2: Tik TOK account and then he was going viral. We,
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: we didn't even know what was going on.
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 2: We were just in a restaurant in Greece, you know,
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 2: talking about this and that. We thought he was just
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: playing on his iPad or something. And then the next morning, like,
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: they came down. They're like, he's gone. My older kids
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: were like, he's gone viral on his TikTok. And there
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: was a picture and he filmed himself going blah, blah, blah,
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 2: making a weird, like he obviously liked seeing himself. So
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: he was opening, closing his mouth. And he goes, I
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: like Roblox. He was making a shape with his mouth.
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: And then for some reason, it kind of lit up TikTok.
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. Yeah. Because I guess you don't
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: see many eight-year-olds on there, right?
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. Yeah. You're like, who gave
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: him this? How did he do it?
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 2: People were giving him bad reviews.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, he was getting like tens of thousands,
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: more than a lot of stuff gets on TV.
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: And people would say, and then one guy was like,
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: don't harsh on the guy. He'd just be vibing, like
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: kind of defending TikTok. Defending his integrity and the quality
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: of his content.
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. The kid just started.
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: He was only his third post. But I'm also thinking,
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like having a portal in your pocket
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: or in your front room. If you have like a
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: million or a couple of million social media followers and
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 2: then you have a few drinks, I often think it's
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: a bit like if you had a balcony and Outside
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: your front room and you could wander out and any
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: time there's 2 million people standing outside. So you could
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: just go out there and I'm going to show them
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: Mount Wiener. You know, like you could do anything.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to show them. I'm going to tell
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: them what's up. I'm going to tell them how I
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: feel right now.
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a great joke. This is funny. Like
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 2: you can... And that's a horrendous... I accidentally... Also, there's
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: famous people in your phone and you go like, okay, Siri,
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 2: or you use the thing and it goes, beep, beep.
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: And like, I'm going to send a text to Bill Clinton.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, I don't have his number,
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 2: but some famous person, right? And you're one thumb click away.
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: From- Sending something crazy.
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: Sending something crazy.
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: And what if it started to do it? What if
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 1: it started just like, you know what? Fuck these people. Yeah.
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: The algorithm, whatever.
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're already calling it an algorithm. We're already
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: calling it artificial intelligence.
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: Kids do inappropriate... I'm not going to call it... But
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 2: kids take... They think it's funny to do inappropriate stuff. Yeah.
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: That's part of being a kid.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: Like they have a ball.
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 2: Together and they... Maybe they even... If you're not... They
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: have a phone and they think it's fun. Like they
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: take a picture of... Maybe one of them takes a
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 2: picture of his younger brother naked or something. I'm speaking hypothetically.
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: And maybe they zoom in on his wiener.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: Wiener.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: His willy. They think it's funny. Like... Because they can
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: show it to you or like to their parents. You know,
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 2: another brother or something like that But then one click,
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: like they have your social media account They put that
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: on social media Now you're a pedophile and you'll go
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 2: to jail Not even joking, right? That would be, I'd
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: be put in prison.
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: For that And what court is going to believe, oh
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: yeah I didn't do that My son took a picture
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: of his brother's wiener and then he posted it Exactly
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: Like your four-year-old son did that Yeah, exactly It's just
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: that thing.
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: That's at the risk. And then one thing like that
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: is potentially career ending.
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 1: And what if the actual owners of these corporate, if
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: they wanted to, they could just post something on your
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: fucking account.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 2: They can hack into your, you're clicking all those, what
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: are the terms and conditions? You know, you tick the one,
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 2: in Samsung, it was like, you have the permission to
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: listen to everything I say. Do you remember in the
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: smart TV? And they were stockpiling ads. Everything you said.
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 2: Their only get out was, oh, we're not listening to it.
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 2: We'll only listen to it if you get into trouble,
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: like if the president thinks you're a spy, you know,
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: or a terrorist. But other than that, don't worry. We're
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 2: just collecting it.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, fine then.
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right?
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 2: I think that's still going. That isn't even a conspiracy theory,
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. Did Samsung, can you bring that up, man? Well,
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: you know what one of my... One of my beliefs
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 1: is that a lot of pornography sites are able to
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: record you while you're watching pornography.
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: So that's how a lot of these people get compromised,
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: I think, for all types of things, is because they
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: have video of everybody.
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 2: Your TV's spying on you, but you could stop it.
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: On newer Samsung sets, go to Settings, Support, scroll down
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: to Terms and Policies. Here you can turn off viewing
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: information services. Internet-based advertising.
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 2: You could stop it, yeah, but tell me how many
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 2: people are going to... Click through all the menus to
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 2: figure out.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: I just read how to do it and I'm still
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: not going to do it.
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly. You don't even read the bit that's like quick start.
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing. You just like put the batteries in.
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 2: And if you can't figure it out on its own,
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 2: then you get someone else to figure it out.
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: You assume it doesn't work. Well, even with having a child,
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: people will have a child, not even read anything about
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 1: them and just take it out. home from the fucking hospital. Yeah.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Big time. There's no manual. But you should do
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: some research.
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 1: You should do some research.
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 2: They're not spying on you, though. Well, maybe they are.
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 2: That's when you know you're fully schizophrenic is when you
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: think your children are.
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Shane Moss is a great comedian. He'd done
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of psychedelics, and he wanted to do a
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: documentary while he was on psychedelics. But as he was
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: taking them, he got further and further down the hole
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: of them, and he started to think that the camera
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 1: crew that he'd hired was spying and working against him.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 1: So now he started leaving clues to the camera crew
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: so whoever would be watching this on the other side
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: would be able to come and help him.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: But to be fair, it would be quite normal. That
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 2: sounds quite normal to think that. Like I don't fully, fully,
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: fully trust any crew, any team I work with. You
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: Because if you did something like horrific, in a weird way,
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: you would expect them to expose you, right? Right.
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: There's a part of them that would. Yeah. Hopefully, they
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: hope that they wouldn't.
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 2: If they caught you, they were doing a documentary about
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: you and they caught you looking at animal porn or something.
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 2: Then maybe that's a better story. And maybe they should
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 2: be like thinking about we need to do this, like uncover.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: Suddenly their allegiance changes. It's no longer about morning sex, right?
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: The documentary about morning sex, this is morning. They'd go
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 2: to like 60 Minutes and think we have Theo Vaughn
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: looking at extreme animal porn.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 1: Well, so you can just go to any dog park
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: and watch it for a little bit. It's not the
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 1: close-ups you want.
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 2: Or David Attenborough, right? That's basically what nature programs are.
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, the Snow Finch. Did you meet him?
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 2: I have met him. I interviewed him, not for TV,
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 2: but for a magazine.
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: What a voice of the times.
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 2: Soon it will die. It will be weeks before it
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 2: feeds again. I learned a lot from how sparing he is.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: He uses the minimum amount of words in his voiceover.
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 2: It's winter. It's winter. The prawns are feeding. Soon they
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 2: will die. You know, like he just doesn't say anything extra.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: And there'll be some little rye. And then time for
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 2: a nap. You know, like you just throw in a little,
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: kind of like a little bit of light irony. There
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: he is. Yeah, that was when I still had my beard.
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 2: Look at that. That was peak me when I had
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 2: like a beard. I had a little gray. That was
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 2: probably like the beginning of, like it was two years
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 2: before the rot set in.
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: And you met Nancy then?
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: I was with Nancy. At least she got to be
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 2: with me during the golden years.
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 1: That's what counts, man.
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 1: Well, you have a love in your life. That's nice, man.
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, very much so. I feel very lucky.
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 1: Louis thank you so much man oh.
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 2: Man it's a real privilege i really feel it's a
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 2: thrill being here for real.
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's really been nice man i just i so
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: many people were fascinated that you we were going to
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 1: be able to have you hang out with us and
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: so um a lot of women too loads of women
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 1: that's until nancy no.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 2: That's that's nice to hear that it's nice to be
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 2: what's the word like obviously I'm not on the menu, but, um,
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 2: or I'm on the menu, but I, I'm not in
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: stock or I don't know what.
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 1: The market price is very high.
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 2: Well, the chef doesn't make that anymore, unfortunately, but maybe
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 2: for special occasions. No, that's a joke.
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: No, that's a joke, Nancy. And you enjoy your crisps, miss.
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're a lovely lady and hope we can
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 1: get to meet you one day. Um, Louis, thank you
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 1: so much for your time. Your podcast every week is
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: just the Louis Theroux podcast.
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: The Louis Theroux podcast. Yeah, on Spotify. And Tell Them
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: You Love Me is on Netflix.
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: Tell Them You Love Me is really, really, it's really,
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 1: it's crazy. There's a lot of little things I felt
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: during it. I was like, man, do I feel this?
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 1: What do I know here? It was cool.
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah. Shout out. Nick August Perna. I mentioned him.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 2: Enjoy the rest of your stay.
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: Will do, man. Have fun. Yeah, I'm going to do
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: my best and I'll let you know next time I
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 1: come in town. I'll have to catch up on your
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: part next time.
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 2: That would be nice. Yeah, it would be a reciprocal deal.
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 2: I'd love to have you on.
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 1: That's very fair, man. Thank you for your time, brother.
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you for yours. cornerstone oh but when I reach
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 2: that ground I'll share this piece of mind I found
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: I can feel it in my bones but it's gonna
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 2: take