Latest / The Christy-Faith Show / Ep. 133 - How to Prepare Your Homeschooler for College (Part 3 of 4) // Natalie Mack

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Ep. 133 - How to Prepare Your Homeschooler for College (Part 3 of 4) // Natalie Mack · The Christy-Faith Show

• 0:00
  Christy-Faith: Welcome to the show, everybody. We are back and in the middle of our series on homeschooling high school, continuing on with our beautiful guest, Natalie Mack. This is episode three titled From Homeschool to College, where we are going to talk about today all of the avenues in which we prepare our children for collegiate studies in whatever capacities that may be. And the reason why that sounds like word salad is because there are different ways to do it. We're gonna talk about college the traditional four year pathway, dual enrollment, the college transition, community college, all of those things we are gonna be talking about today.
• 0:41
  And I have Natalie Mack back on the show. I am going to share your bio again because this is a series where a parent may just be listening to the one episode that pertains to them, so they need to know who you are and why you're qualified to help. And also, it's just really good reinforcement to realize that I don't invite just anybody on my podcast. Natalie is someone who I have invited in to teach a master class in Thrive. She is about to be a guest mentor in one of our office hours because she knows her stuff, which I will explain to you in just a minute as I read her bio.
• 1:16
  You're gonna think to yourself, oh, wow. This woman is someone to listen to. Okay. So Natalie Mack is the founder of Homeschool Natalie Mack and a homeschool consultant, a TEDx speaker, and author of a 101 tips for homeschoolers. With more than twenty three years of homeschooling experience, she helps families confidently navigate high school, transcripts, college admissions, military service, and other post secondary pathways.
• 1:44
  Natalie is passionate about equipping parents with practical guidance so they can make informed decisions. So I wanna welcome Natalie to the show, and let's do a little recap too in this episode Sure. Of summary of your five kids.
• 2:00
  Natalie Mack: Okay. Alright. Summary. Yeah.
• 2:02
  Christy-Faith: And welcome. So I'll hand it over to you in the beginning before I ask you your first question. Tell us about yourself, your kids, and all the things.
• 2:20
  Natalie Mack: Thanks so much, Christy. I am always excited to be here, and hello, everyone. So we are a retired, military family. My husband was a navy chaplain as we served thirty four years. And, yes, we served not I didn't put on the boots, and I don't wear the uniform, but military spouses and the family serves alongside the active duty member.
• 2:41
  And, we have five kids. And so we homeschooled for twenty three years, I think if I have account correct. And our youngest is a rising sophomore in college, then we have the others have finished college and and gone on to grad school and completed graduate school and doing amazing things. And so and we are expecting our first grandchild in November, so I keep plugging that in because I'm super excited. And yes, it's been amazing journey.
• 3:07
  I'm super passionate about homeschooling. I'm really I probably even more passionate about supporting families and trusting and encouraging families to trust their what they know that would be good for their family. Right? And so homeschooling is an amazing, you know, pathway, right, journey. So I'm excited to be here, Christy.
• 3:28
  Christy-Faith: Yes. And also my hope with this series too is that we just demystify the homeschooling high school thing. It's not as scary as you may think it is. Am I teaching AP chemistry? No.
• 3:43
  I am not. I am sourcing really well. In fact, this very year, it's happening at my co op. And if it wasn't happening at the co op, I'd be finding another resource for my son to fulfill that requirement
• 3:53
  Natalie Mack: Exactly.
• 3:54
  Christy-Faith: For college admissions. And so I I hope that parents, even if they're only tuning into this episode today, they realize, you know, when you get the pushback, like, well, you're not qualified to teach algebra two. It's like, no, am not. And, that's okay. That's okay.
• 4:10
  I'm but I am qualified to, organize the learning experience for my son. And the other thing too for those and I wish I had we had mentioned this on the other shows, is it's hard at least it was hard for me when my kids were younger, even though my whole career has been in education. Mhmm. It was hard for me to imagine when my kids were appropriately needy in their homeschooling. Right?
• 4:33
  Right. When they were younger, they need you to teach them to read. It was very hard for me to imagine how I was going to do this for high school.
• 4:40
  Natalie Mack: Yeah.
• 4:40
  Christy-Faith: Because of where my kids appropriate age and stage were. Thing that looking back, what I wished someone had told me is, Christy, by the time they're this age, because you're fostering a lot of capacity capability in your kids Mhmm. They're gonna be doing a lot of this on their own, and you are there to support them in any way they need. Exactly. So you're not neglecting them in their education, but actually, you're doing a better job by supporting them in all those executive functioning skills of doing it themselves with support.
• 5:18
  So we're gonna be talking about college preparation today for those families whose kiddos are college bound or you think they are college bound.
• 5:27
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 5:28
  Christy-Faith: And my first question for you, Natalie, is what should homeschool parents know about maybe using community college during the high school years? It's controversial.
• 5:38
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. It's a little controversial. Right. Exactly. I've been noticing though an increase in more homeschooling families choosing community colleges for a variety of reasons.
• 5:48
  Right. So they can be a wonderful resource. Students have access to instructors, labs, specialized subjects, college level courses that maybe you as a parent, you don't wanna teach or you're not feeling as qualified, and the lab sometime can be a little bit challenging at home. So, homeschool families have discovered that community colleges and, you know, taking a science course, a gen ed science course would be really helpful. So also families are looking at this whole idea of, you know, how can we potentially provide the opportunity for our student to feel comfortable on a college campus and not as high stakes as it would be to now commit to a four year university.
• 6:31
  It's substantially cheaper. You know, you you don't have the residents, you know, the lodging housing and all room and board rather. So it can be a really great opportunity for students to really just kinda step foot on a college campus and just kinda get to get to feel how it how it feels. Does it feel good? How do they feel in reference to being capable of managing it?
• 6:54
  And so we're seeing along with that, of course, the substantial discount, right, in cost. Right? Substantially much less per credit hour. And again, like I mentioned, you don't have the room and board. So but there are some things to consider with the community college route too.
• 7:12
  You wanna make sure that, again, your student needs to be there. Not every don't jump into the community college just because everyone else is doing it because you're not raising everyone else's child. Right? So you have to really look, is this gonna fit what we need right now? And it might not and it might.
• 7:32
  So you just kinda have to determine that. One thing I see with families too that have several kids, they'll say, well, this worked for my older child. And they're like, I don't know why it's not working for this child. I'm like, because that child is not your older child and your older child's not that child. They're different.
• 7:49
  Come from the same family typically, right? There are situations, but in general come from the same family. And so you're like, okay, they should be the same. No, no, no, we're all unique. So look at it and see what you can do with the community college if it's going to work for your student.
• 8:04
  A lot of times the dual enrollment is that process. So we when we talk about that, let's back up and stay in the high school space.
• 8:12
  Christy-Faith: That's where
• 8:13
  Natalie Mack: that dual enrollment lands. So yes, you're likely gonna be on a community college campus, or you can look online and find a four year university that offers a dual enrollment program for homeschool high schoolers because those don't they do exist. And then that way, it may lessen what you're having to leave at a certain time from home, getting someone there, picking them back up, you know, all the adjustments to actually being on a college campus. You can still get some of those benefits of that college level rigor, but you can get it by just doing it through a four year university online. But families are looking at this dual enrollment.
• 8:52
  And one of the things that is really neat about dual enrollment is that for every three to five semester credit course. Right? So that's typically say a fall semester at a local community college. Most of those courses are gonna be awarded between three to five credits. That equals one whole high school year.
• 9:12
  So let's just do like a English one zero one. Right? Because we wanna always stick with the gen ed and at the community college level, even in dual enrollment. Say English one zero one, that's typically three to five credits if it's a semester community college, that's equal to that one whole year of English or the language arts category. Families look at that and go, Oh, okay.
• 9:36
  So we're covering a little bit more ground, especially for kids who wanna do a lot of subjects. Like, they just, like, wanna fit in a lot, then this kind of helps them do that as well. So at a, you know, at a substantially lower cost than they would waiting in than in college. Because some of these will transfer. A lot of these will transfer the dual enrollment credits as well as the community college work.
• 10:03
  And so the difference would be dual enrollment is typically at a community college, but if you are not in dual enrollment, that means you've probably graduated from high school and now you're at a community college which is a different path if that makes sense. That means instead of choosing a four year university for your college experience, you're starting with a two year and you might be looking at getting an associate's degree, and that could be it. That could be it. Again, all this depends on the student. Right, Christy?
• 10:32
  Christy-Faith: Homeschooling four kids means I'm juggling roughly 24 different subjects at any given time. And a few years back during a particularly busy season, I hit a wall. I needed some serious help with the heavy lifting of teaching everything myself and managing schedules for four kids. That's when I found BJU Press Homeschool, and we've loved their courses so much that we keep going back. Some families use them for everything and love it.
• 10:54
  I use them for certain subjects. Either way, total mental load relief. Here's what my mornings look like now. Let us take science for example. My three girls do that one together.
• 11:04
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• 11:35
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• 11:49
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• 12:26
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• 12:52
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• 13:05
  Grab your free trial today, and you'll see why we love it for our kids. So let's just go over the pathways Yeah. We have so many opportunities. So this is how I see it, and correct me if I'm missing anything. And, again, this episode is just about students who are college bound in some way.
• 13:22
  So Right. This is how I see it. Is the first you have the way that we're all used to thinking about it, is you do four years of high school, you do the college visits, you pick a college, and you go. Right? That's how the rest of the world does it.
• 13:35
  That's how I did it growing up. You can do that as a homeschooler too.
• 13:39
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 13:39
  Christy-Faith: Then we have two options really in my mind Yes. For doing college courses while you're in high school. So that is the term dual enrollment. Right. It means the coursework that you're doing counts for high school and college.
• 13:54
  It usually involves a little bit more work. Right. But when you think about it, you know, when you do when you take four years of high school history, for example, you often retake
• 14:04
  Natalie Mack: a lot of
• 14:04
  Christy-Faith: those classes, and you're gen ed ed in college. So that's what the problem that it's solving is it's not making students redo courses again. So and the two ways to do that is either through a dual enrollment program for homeschoolers, which there are those out there, or you take community college classes while in high school. Exactly. That okay.
• 14:25
  So those that's the dual enrollment path. Also, and this is rather new in our space, and I'm seeing more of this, is we're now seeing dual degree as well. We're not really gonna talk about that today, but I want parents to know that that also exists where that is more of it's a decision that you make before you start high school. I would say, at least right now, that's where I think the space is that could be changing.
• 14:51
  Natalie Mack: I would agree. I would agree.
• 14:52
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. You kind of are it's a unique path because you're kinda deciding on a major
• 14:57
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 14:57
  Christy-Faith: When your kid is a freshman, and you're doing that program. And so all of the high school work is dual degree work.
• 15:06
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 15:06
  Christy-Faith: So that when they graduate high school, they are also getting a bachelor's degree in something. Now Right. What I will say with that path is that that is not a path for everybody. It is a great path for kids who are go planning to do graduate work too. And it's also a great path for families.
• 15:25
  It saves a tremendous amount of money. Mhmm. All of this does. Dual enrollment saves money too. And I think that the reason why there's now markets for these things is we're we're losing faith in the four year system.
• 15:37
  Yeah. We're we're realizing just how expensive that is, and we're now asking questions, is this worth it? And we're now living in an economy where what you know is less important
• 15:52
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 15:52
  Christy-Faith: Than the skills you have. Right. And so that's changing the landscape of higher ed, and we are in the middle of this transition.
• 16:01
  Natalie Mack: Exactly.
• 16:02
  Christy-Faith: And so what did I are those the four pathways too right now that we got?
• 16:06
  Natalie Mack: Yes. Okay. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah.
• 16:07
  Christy-Faith: Okay. Great. Yeah. And so and those are and that's really exciting, isn't that? Yeah.
• 16:12
  The listener today. And I if it's if you're a woman listening, have your husband listen to this podcast too because it often raises eyebrows when they're like, wait a minute. I can my kid can get a college degree, and I can save you know, start crunching crunching the numbers because these these are an incredible opportunity, and it's another flex for homeschooling. We can do this kind of thing.
• 16:33
  Natalie Mack: Exactly. We can do it, and I love it. And you're right. That is an amazing opportunity, you know, and it fits some students. It's not like you said, for every student, you have to be committed.
• 16:43
  The student has to really be owning this process. You're not dragging the student along. Right? They're still young. So you may have to help a little bit in that.
• 16:51
  But it's something that they identify with and that they say, oh, yeah. This is something I wanna do because that's gonna be the what's gonna get them to keep pushing through and get it. But it's a great program. There's a dual academy, and I'll throw them out throw out mention them out there now. That that is amazing program as well similar to what you said with the dual degree.
• 17:12
  Christy-Faith: Yeah.
• 17:13
  Natalie Mack: And so this is these are ways. These are ways. So you're not you're not boxed in homeschooling. We're independent. We want options.
• 17:20
  Right? We want flexibility. And so here you are, post secondary.
• 17:25
  Christy-Faith: You got it. Also interested in saving money because, you know, like, we're a family with four kids and counting up what a four you know, I went to a private Christian college. Yeah. And it was only me and my sister. My sister didn't go to college.
• 17:38
  I did. And that was a stretch for my family Yeah. To send me to college. So and we're living in an economy now where it's just everything feels so expensive. So Yes.
• 17:47
  Be encouraged listener because there are so many options for homeschooling high school. And I mentioned this earlier, but I wanna share it again. We were in a group at church of all teenagers, parents of teenagers, and the amount of stress that parents felt with the college admissions process.
• 18:05
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 18:05
  Christy-Faith: And that's fine. That's their choice. But but what saddened me is they didn't feel like it was a choice. Right. They they felt like this was how it had to be done.
• 18:17
  I'm here to say, no. Yeah. It doesn't have to be that way. We don't our kid doesn't have to decide on their major. Our son is in a dual degree program, but the major it's a very general major because he's planning on going to graduate school where he would specialize later.
• 18:32
  And the major that he's chosen to do is a major that applies to so many professions later. And is that gonna be a fit for my three girls who are coming up behind him? Maybe not. But and I love that you said if they choose it because it is a lot of extra work for him.
• 18:48
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 18:49
  Christy-Faith: Yes. And he made the decision.
• 18:51
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 18:52
  Christy-Faith: We said this is a possibility for you. These are all the things, and it took us a long time to decide. So ultimately, he because I'm not gonna drag it. This is terrible to say, but
• 19:01
  Natalie Mack: I'm not gonna gonna say. He said go ahead.
• 19:03
  Christy-Faith: I'm not gonna drag a kid through high school and call like, no. Yeah. Yeah. Did that. I did it.
• 19:08
  I dragged myself through Right. High school and graduate school. So, you know, just because it's an amazing opportunity and saves families a lot of money, it does not mean that it's a fit. I do think though it is smart to be smart about your high school coursework.
• 19:25
  Natalie Mack: Oh, definitely. Definitely.
• 19:26
  Christy-Faith: Love dual enrollment. I love your advice, Natalie, on make sure it's general ed. Because the one complaint I hear is from families is that their kid took a dual credit class, and that it didn't transfer to the four year college. So do you wanna speak to that a little bit? Because I think it is a good warning as we're talking about saving money here, and this is accidentally a way to waste money.
• 19:51
  Natalie Mack: So Right. Right. Right. Unintentionally. Right?
• 19:54
  To many parents' surprise and disappointment, and and even the student too. Think about it. What student wants to hear that, you know, I worked hard through this, you know, course, and it won't count. Because the students are there because they realize, oh, this is gonna benefit them as well. So, yeah, definitely stick with the gen ed.
• 20:13
  Just do that. Don't go into the specifics of something that would be qualified as a major. The foundational general education, the math, the sciences, the beginnings of those those categories. Right? Don't go into the specialties and all because what tends to happen is that colleges, you they want their brand on their student.
• 20:35
  I know that sounds like a business, but surprise colleges are businesses.
• 20:40
  Christy-Faith: Yes, they are. Yes.
• 20:42
  Natalie Mack: So and so and and and you are buying into that brand, but that's another discussion, Christy, but you as a parent are buying and the student buying into the brand Cause when you do your research, find your school. Right? So, but colleges are saying, hey, this is our brand. So we want it in terms of the major courses that we're gonna give this degree and say this student got a major in this and this. We want those students to actually take those courses, what we call in residence.
• 21:10
  So we call it a residency requirement. So don't dabble into those and expect that it will transfer. Now if the student wants to take those courses and they are meet the prerequisites at the community college and they're just interested because we homeschool and, you know, we love learning and all these, that's one of the goals I hope is for us, then fine. But don't have expectation that it's gonna transfer. If you're really saying, I wanna save money and I wanna guarantee, then you wanna stick with the gen eds.
• 21:40
  And then to get a really, really warm and fuzzy, if you know what school your student might be applying to, what four year school, if they're doing dual enrollment, but they're gonna go here to four year, or even if they're doing have graduated high school and you're helping them with their associates, like helping them manage that, they can look and say, okay, I'm gonna apply to this four year university. Let me contact their admissions office, specifically the registrar's office and say, can you give me a list of courses that transfer in? And they have those lists. It's not you, your student won't be the first one that's taken English 101 from the local community college. So definitely do your homework and help your student understand the importance of doing their homework because you're raising adults, And so at some point, they do dual enrollment, whether they do community college and stay home, at some point they're going to likely be out of your home, having to make decisions and to understand the importance of doing their own research before they jump into something is amazing skill.
• 22:49
  And as homeschoolers, we have the time to really help our students understand why that is a key skill and how to do it really efficiently. And so we're modeling, like you mentioned earlier, the term modeling, right? It's super important. So there are so many options and sit down with your student and say, hey. I wanna help you.
• 23:11
  This is what I tell parents when I do consultations too. You know, you want buy in. Remember I mentioned that? Oh, yeah. Want buy in from your student.
• 23:19
  So sit down with your student and say, this is where you have said you want to go. Like your son, grad school. Mhmm. He said, I want to go to grad school. So you're now saying, okay.
• 23:30
  What's my role as a parent to help facilitate you being successful at getting that goal accomplished? So you're encouraging them to now say, let's sit down and see what you need to do, what is important for that journey, that path, and I need you to know it because I wanna help you get where you tell me you wanna go. Does that make sense? So you're saying, hear you. You wanna do this.
• 23:57
  You're yeah. You you know, you're passionate about this. Then what do we need to do together? And a lot of times students will go, oh, they really wanna hear what I have to say. They really wanna know more about what I wanna do, and they really wanna come alongside me.
• 24:12
  And it's amazing because then now you have buy in. You have ownership. So now you're not dragging someone along like you said. No one. I don't wanna do that either.
• 24:21
  Thankfully, I'm finished, and all our kids are launched and finished. Well, the youngest, but it's a it's it's a lot to look into.
• 24:28
  Christy-Faith: Yes. And I also think that it's not a bad thing if they need some scaffolding in the process.
• 24:34
  Natalie Mack: So It's not a bad
• 24:34
  Christy-Faith: thing. You're getting if your student has expressed that they do want to go to college, and you know, maybe after listening to this show, that you could save thousands by doing some dual enrollment. Mhmm. And you're getting pushback from your student. Okay.
• 24:49
  Fine. It might not be a fit, and that's fine. But the pushback could just be overwhelm
• 24:53
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 24:54
  Christy-Faith: And not knowing how to do it. And so you could also sit down and say, hey. If I helped you organize this and we understood this together and we actually wrote out steps in order so that we could just tackle each little step
• 25:07
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 25:07
  Christy-Faith: Would would this be something if I helped you accomplish the goal and broke it into small pieces? Here, we're talking about executive functioning. Yeah. Because Right. Kids don't have the frontal lobe fully developed yet anyway.
• 25:18
  Right. And then ask because it's just because they're not ready to organize their entire thing, it doesn't mean they're not ready for the coursework. Exactly. Exactly. That is okay.
• 25:29
  Yeah. In in my purview, it's okay. And they're gonna actually they need those skills anyway, so they're gonna have a leg up on their public school peers
• 25:37
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 25:38
  Christy-Faith: By, you know, they can go into an interview and they can say, oh, well, I organized my own college coursework and, yeah, this, that, and the other, and be really impressive as a 17 year old, basically.
• 25:48
  Natalie Mack: Exactly. Exactly.
• 25:50
  Christy-Faith: Managed a huge project in high school by themselves. And so I I love what you're saying about buy in. Yes. And I think that we live in a culture where and this is part a little bit of a deschooling sesh right here. Yeah.
• 26:03
  We live in a culture where we do school to kids.
• 26:07
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 26:08
  Christy-Faith: And Yeah. It's a mindset shift.
• 26:11
  Natalie Mack: Mhmm. Exactly.
• 26:12
  Christy-Faith: But a good one.
• 26:13
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 26:14
  Christy-Faith: It That is a good improves relationship, improves trust, improves buy in. Right. When you give your kids a voice
• 26:22
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 26:22
  Christy-Faith: And input in what they're doing. Now that's not relinquishing Right. Responsibility on your part. Of course not. No.
• 26:30
  But, you know, there's been situations where I've gotten pushed back in some areas and, you know, on a particular curriculum. Right. And where I narrowed it down to three, and my kid was pretty young, but they were a legit three options where any of them would have been a good choice for that year. Yes. But I needed buy in.
• 26:50
  I needed my kid to want to do this. Exactly. They didn't like the subject. Right. Yeah.
• 26:55
  So you can read between the lines here.
• 26:57
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. I love that.
• 26:58
  Christy-Faith: We sat down, and we looked at the websites and the pros and cons and made a little list. And it was and the decision wasn't me, you know, turning the neck. It wasn't that. It was legit. All of these will give you a great education in this subject this year.
• 27:15
  I want you to do the one that feels like you want to do, that looks intriguing, that would ignite your imagination.
• 27:21
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 27:22
  Christy-Faith: And that's what we did. So and the buy in that I got.
• 27:26
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 27:26
  Christy-Faith: They had a voice. Yeah. They felt seen and heard. I wasn't throwing school on the child. Right.
• 27:34
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• 28:33
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• 28:53
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• 29:04
  It takes under two minutes. You'll type up everything that you or your family needs, and it will tell you what you should be paying. And then you're gonna spit out your water. But while you're doing that, you're gonna run to the phone. And when you call, they will walk you through everything.
• 29:16
  Make sure to tell them that you're a listener of the show because I want you to have the VIP treatment. Summithealthshare.com. Link is in the show notes. You know how when you meet another homeschool family and you end up talking for, like, an hour? Swapping recommendations, sharing what's working, telling them about the pediatrician who actually gets it, where to get the best deal on sprouted flour.
• 29:35
  That's how we just are. We take care of each other. That's the whole idea behind The Christy-Faith list. It's a directory of all types of businesses and organizations who share our values and want to work with homeschool families, and it is always free to search. All those recommendations were always passing around.
• 29:53
  Now they're all in one place. And if you're a business owner or part of an organization that loves homeschooling families and you want business from us, sign yourself up. We want to know who you are. We want to give you business. There's nothing like finding a homeschool friendly something or rather out there in the wild.
• 30:10
  Support the people who support you at the christyfaithlist.com.
• 30:15
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. I mean, because again, we go back to this love of learning. Right? And that that's one of the gifts I think for homeschooling is that you can really you can really help your child have and build this love for learning in the in the confidence, right, in being able to learn because you're not gonna be able to teach every subject, but you want them to know I can learn anything I need to learn when I need to learn it. And so that's super important.
• 30:41
  And then the thing about voice, which I think is always important, and I love that you did that, like chose the three. Right? And you're still you're still parenting. That's parenting. Right?
• 30:49
  Yes. But I think if we can help our students develop, like know their voice, develop it Mhmm. Within the frameworks of our loving homeschool family. Right? Not perfect homeschool family, but loving homeschool family that then they are confident in that voice, and that's what they're gonna need when you're not around, when you're not able to be in the spaces, whether it's on a college campus, whether it's on a mission trip, whether it's in unemployment, whether it could be anywhere.
• 31:22
  Students who know who they are, are confident about who they are and know their voice and are okay using their voice to advocate or to speak up or to say, no, that's not for me. That's phenomenal skill. Right? So we
• 31:38
  Christy-Faith: can do else too? I wanna ask you because I think pair I think this would be a really great thing. Do parents do this? When they have a consultation with you, is the teen on that Zoom call?
• 31:49
  Natalie Mack: Yes. I often will invite the teen, invite the parent to yes. Definitely.
• 31:55
  Christy-Faith: I yeah. Because we invite Lincoln is on all of the calls that
• 31:58
  Natalie Mack: pertain to his Oh, yes. Yeah. Because this is about him. Like, I've I've got my degree. Right?
• 32:05
  Yeah. Like or even if you don't have a degree, you've you are an adult now. Right? So this is this is what you're doing. You're helping and modeling.
• 32:13
  And so I love when families bring in, and I always say bring the student in. Matter of fact, most recently, I just got a nice email back, hit me in tears from a family. We'll be talking about the military piece later. So but she emailed because I had worked with her and her son who wanted to go into the marine corps. They heard me speak in the Idaho conference a few years ago, and they reached out.
• 32:36
  And I said, he needs to be on because we're talking about him and what he wants. And he needs to know what to expect and why this has to look this way and why he needs this class. Right? Because this is what he wants. This is what he says he wants to do.
• 32:52
  So what do we need to do to help him get there? And it's what he's gonna have to execute in large measure. And he's successful, so she sent me an email of thanks and just talking about how everything you said worked out and he got the all the things, and I'm like, yay. You know? So, yeah, I love that.
• 33:07
  And even when I speak at conferences, I like when because I do a lot of the high school ones. So, you know, I like when the parents bring the students in. Matter of fact, I was speaking in Maine last in the spring, and and a lot of the students sitting in my career workshop was they were they were teens. Right? And they raising hands and all.
• 33:25
  Christy-Faith: Was loving it.
• 33:27
  Natalie Mack: I was loving it. So
• 33:29
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. And I just I I'm at the point now that I love this so much. I feel like people who don't homeschool high school are missing out. Yeah. It is just so fun and cool and It really is.
• 33:44
  It watching really is. Your teenager
• 33:46
  Natalie Mack: It's one of our best times.
• 33:47
  Christy-Faith: Row right in front of your eyes and ask good questions, big questions. Yeah. It was
• 33:52
  Natalie Mack: just One of our best times.
• 33:54
  Christy-Faith: I mean Yeah. It really truly it breaks my heart that parents quit Yeah. Because they think they're not qualified to do that. You're gonna do such a better job than the guidance counselor at the local public school. Are you kidding me?
• 34:06
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. Who cares for their who cares for that child more? Yeah. And that doesn't mean that you have to be the one teaching everything like you said. No.
• 34:16
  You are like the manager at this point. Right? You're just helping them and facilitate what they need.
• 34:21
  Christy-Faith: Yes.
• 34:21
  Natalie Mack: So it's not about your capacity. Like you think and that's the switch. That's the switch. Oh my gosh. That's a that's that will preach Christy.
• 34:29
  Let's go on a circuit and and go free. Right? That will preach because that's the shift right there.
• 34:35
  Christy-Faith: Oh my That's the title of your next book, Natalie. Yeah. That's the shift.
• 34:39
  Natalie Mack: Right. Yeah. Because from k to a, you are responsible. They don't know what they don't know and you're teaching and then you're making sure. But when they get in high school, the shift is now, right, that you passing the reins over slowly, confidently and everything.
• 34:55
  And it's a shift. You don't have to know all the things you thought you needed to know to teach a kid how to read or how to add. Now you can facilitate that and it's okay. So I think we put that expectation on ourselves, and a lot of families don't even know that there's another way to think about it. That's the sad piece, I think.
• 35:15
  It's not that they know and they turn away and say, no. We still want brick and mortar. It's that families really get stuck and they don't really hear hear what we're talking about. Right? Yes.
• 35:26
  To say, oh, I don't have to know all those things. I can keep doing what we're doing. Mhmm. I can keep spending time with my kids. They can keep bonding.
• 35:36
  They can keep developing. They don't have to have all the pressure of being like John or Sally down the street. Right?
• 35:42
  Christy-Faith: Mhmm.
• 35:43
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. Okay. Anyway, here's have we have we gotten off course here? Are
• 35:48
  Christy-Faith: we good? We are not no. We're not off course because I think we're talking about exactly what we're supposed to be talking about. Yes. Because I'm gonna say something else that was not planned.
• 35:59
  As you guys know, this show is free to you because our sponsors make it free, and I love them. So make sure to click on the links. If you're buying that kind of stuff anyway, man, please click the links and check out what they're doing. We love our sponsors, and as you know, podcasts are not an inexpensive thing to produce. So it is a wonderful way to say thank you.
• 36:16
  And also don't forget to like and subscribe or give me the stars if I deserve it. Those little robots behind the screen, they push out episodes that have a lot of engagement. So if you like watching this show and you think a friend could benefit from it, send it to her. Comment a word of encouragement. Ask a question.
• 36:31
  We read all the comments, and they help boost the show and put it in front of more eyeballs. So thank you so much. It fills my cup. It really does. I'm gonna say something else that was not planned.
• 36:43
  Natalie Mack: Okay. Go for
• 36:43
  Christy-Faith: it. But before we started filming, I didn't realize that Natalie's background also, despite all of these degrees that she has, she also is a was a licensed counselor and therapist. Yeah. And so, and that got my juices flowing. But here here's the other thing about homeschooling high school.
• 37:03
  Okay. This is where we're teaching our kids, hopefully, healthy relationships and those soft skills and boundaries. Because when they're younger, they get hurt and you help them and you give them some tools. But high school is where you start laying that foundation of how do you discern future your future spouse? And I know, you know Right.
• 37:25
  You're gonna date people and stuff like that. But how do you know when to exit that dating situation, for example? Okay. Here's something bold that I believe. I believe that of course, there's a lot of reasons why I believe in homeschooling.
• 37:39
  But I think that compulsory education
• 37:42
  Natalie Mack: Mhmm.
• 37:42
  Christy-Faith: Trains children to tolerate and to give up or feel like they are powerless in toxic situations Yeah. With toxic people. And I think that that floods into later in life where people remain in relationships because they feel like they don't have a choice. Because a lot of kids, if you have Yeah. Raise your hand listener right now if you can think of one teacher that you had in your twelve years who really had no business being a teacher.
• 38:14
  They were so toxic, so hurtful, so maybe even downright abusive. We're hearing in the news all the time teachers getting arrested for really bad things. Right?
• 38:22
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 38:23
  Christy-Faith: I'm sure every single listener can raise their hand about that one thing, but yet we force our children to stay in those classrooms. Exactly. We force them to stay with that teacher and just cross our fingers that they'll get fired or file complaints. And here's a situation that we had. As I've mentioned, we had briefly mentioned, sports.
• 38:43
  Yeah. And my son was in a program at a private school here that was I was questioning, I was on the precipice of is this toxic or is this abusive? Toxic, I can help I can help my son with tools and skills. Right. Okay?
• 39:02
  Natalie Mack: Abusive is
• 39:02
  Christy-Faith: another level. You don't tolerate this. Mm-mm. K? It took us about four months of being on our knees praying.
• 39:10
  Natalie Mack: Yeah.
• 39:11
  Christy-Faith: Which one is this? Right. We're you know, I'm a Christian, everybody listening. Yeah. What is this, Lord?
• 39:16
  Because we our son loves to play sports, but we're not going to tolerate abuse. Right. So here's what is so empowering is we did end up making the choice to exit. Mhmm. It was so scary because we didn't have a solution when we exited.
• 39:33
  Yeah. We found them. Because why? Scott and I are resourceful, and you are too. We found them, and dare I say, we found better things.
• 39:43
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 39:43
  Christy-Faith: And my son actually found a new sport Yeah. That he absolutely loves and is obsessed with. And so I don't know who needed to hear that today on if they're scared, they feel they're not qualified to homeschool high school. Aside from academics, which is what we're talking about today, college, can you please consider the mental health piece?
• 40:02
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 40:02
  Christy-Faith: Please. Yes. Consider the mental health piece of your teenager Yes. Forming their worldview, their sense of self. I mean, from can I just plead to you?
• 40:15
  Yes. Why would you spend all those beautiful young years homeschooling just to throw them to the wolves in the critical years? Am I too strong there?
• 40:25
  Natalie Mack: No. You are not. You're not. Don't get me started with that. I you know, and I'm passionate about speaking about this too, and I've done and I will shout out Vicky Tillman of Seven Sisters Homeschool.
• 40:37
  We've done some podcasts with her, well, I have about this whole thing. And so it's almost like speaking about mental health and wellness can be taboo.
• 40:46
  Christy-Faith: Right.
• 40:47
  Natalie Mack: I am owning that this is an I statement. I think that that is to the detriment of us in the homeschool community. Don't don't don't come for me, people, on social media because there is a way to speak about it to help and to model our kids because sometimes and here here is gonna be a really oh, I don't know if I should say this, but I'm on a Christy Faith Show, so I'm gonna say it. You know? Sometimes, you know, it can be really we think that mental health is tied to maybe, you know, we're not praying hard enough.
• 41:23
  Right?
• 41:23
  Christy-Faith: Oh, yeah.
• 41:25
  Natalie Mack: And or in some really dysfunctional spaces, it can be, well, what did you do to cause this?
• 41:31
  Christy-Faith: Yes.
• 41:31
  Natalie Mack: So I'm not I'm just I'm just throwing that out there, people. I'm not and I'm not providing therapy because I can't, but I do speak and train on this and and because I feel it's important in the homeschool community, I have gotten calls from parents and people whose kids are suffering in the homeschool community. It's not because you're not parenting well.
• 41:53
  Christy-Faith: Mm-mm.
• 41:53
  Natalie Mack: It's not because homeschooling isn't working. It's not that it's the belief I think that homeschooling will mean we won't have these issues. We somehow delude ourselves in thinking that only brick and mortar school kids have these challenges and the homeschool community, we don't have bullying, we don't have mental health crises.
• 42:13
  Christy-Faith: Mhmm.
• 42:14
  Natalie Mack: I think it's to the detriment. You know, now do some of the triggers that exist in brick and mortar, you you have less of, but you can have bullying in homeschool co ops. You can have Yeah. Your kids can have biochemical. There's a lot that could be going on there.
• 42:30
  Yeah. And you as a parent. So when I do this workshop on anxiety, I used to call it struggling with anxiety. And then now I do I changed it. The Lord led me to change it because I'm I'm a Christian to you all.
• 42:41
  From, what is it? From fear to faith, helping Yeah. Helping parents. Sometimes you don't you haven't identified some of the mental health, you know, challenges you have, so you can't really
• 42:53
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. See it
• 42:53
  Natalie Mack: in your child or you're scared to see it because you
• 42:56
  Christy-Faith: That's right.
• 42:57
  Natalie Mack: Haven't figured out your own stuff. So I know we we're going into some spaces there, but, yeah, thanks for shouting out that piece, Christy, because
• 43:04
  Christy-Faith: Well and, you know, and that and not talking about that Yeah. We have to shed light on that because if we don't, it breeds shame. It does. It does. And guess what was nailed on the cross, people?
• 43:15
  Yes. Shame.
• 43:16
  Natalie Mack: Yes. Yes.
• 43:17
  Christy-Faith: So so and unfortunately, there is that in the in the culture of blaming yourself or or Right. Anything like that. And so I don't know if you needed to hear that. If maybe we Somebody did. Literally went on that tangent for one person.
• 43:32
  If you're not that person, please don't write in and complain.
• 43:35
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 43:35
  Christy-Faith: Stop yourself and think, bet you there was one person listening
• 43:38
  Natalie Mack: Yes. Somebody
• 43:38
  Christy-Faith: who Yeah. Who wouldn't have homeschooled high school and maybe will now because of that. Okay. So let's go back to high school. So let's talk about that traditional four year process.
• 43:51
  Yes. When say you just wanna homeschool high school and you wanna do go into the four year college.
• 43:57
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 43:58
  Christy-Faith: In the traditional way, not doing any dual enrollment or anything like that. What does the college application process look like for homeschool families? Yes. In particular, does it look any different?
• 44:10
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. So good question. This is a concern I hear all the time. Oh, if I homeschool high school, will this affect them getting into college? And that's that's a question I hear you all.
• 44:20
  I my heart I get it. And it's a fear. Right? So the basic process is the same for the homeschooled student. It's I will say it's very, very similar.
• 44:31
  And in most cases, it's the same. Some colleges do have some additional requirements that they do, require of of homeschool students, but that's becoming less and less. So homeschool students apply to colleges. They get accepted. Colleges seek homeschool students.
• 44:48
  They see the the caliber of of in their character that they bring to the college campus. You know, it doesn't colleges, remember we talked, they're business. So they really do want students to graduate in four years, y'all. Because they have to list those statistics for your graduation rate. It doesn't serve their brand to have a high percentage of kids who don't graduate for five or six years.
• 45:15
  Now there are situations. Right? I'm I'm right? So if you're if valid situations. But in general, they want kids to matriculate and get through in four years.
• 45:25
  So that means that they are looking for homeschool students. Right? And they want it. So you're gonna apply to college. You're gonna go through the admissions process.
• 45:32
  You're gonna submit your academic records, the transcript. So make sure you're doing that, and we talked about that in I think episode one a little bit. And also, what I didn't talk about episode one that I'll throw out now is the extracurricular activity resume. Like all of the activities that your student is doing, leadership service, character, volunteer, all whatever, everything. Have them track that.
• 45:55
  I do and I'll put a plug in for myself. I do have on my website where you can download an extracurricular activity resume to help and you know you can look and see what you need to be tracking and what your student needs to be tracking too. So they're submit these things. They're gonna go through probably the common app for most schools, but there are a few that are not in the common app. The common app is like a portal where you can apply, your student can submit one and it kinda goes out to different colleges and that's kinda a minimal explanation of it.
• 46:27
  And then they're gonna pursue scholarships, financial aid and all that. The difference for us as homeschoolers, it's not necessarily always an application process. It's in the process of wearing the two hats of being now homeschool mom and now guidance counselor. And so recognize that if you feel like, oh, I'm doing more work. You are, you are.
• 46:48
  You're wearing two hats. So now you're responsible for creating and documenting and all the transcript things and of course descriptions and all. You are responsible. Right? But sit down with your student and say, hey, this is you you you've said you want to go to college.
• 47:06
  This is what we need. These are the courses that we need. Just pencil paper because they they could change. You could plan for eleventh grade and a student decides, I don't wanna do that history course, so be flexible. But have a plan and then, you know, let them know that grades count.
• 47:22
  And that's why, again, let's segue back to what we talked about with dual enrollment community college. Those are official grades. They count. So make sure your student understands that we're we're not just flipping burgers. We're in school, and these are these are official grades that will be provided to other schools when asked.
• 47:40
  Then just sit down and do that research with your student and go to those admissions, websites and they're amazing now. They are. I'm dating myself. Used to be where you get, you know, the little I don't even like this is like the little brochures in the mail. Right?
• 47:56
  Christy-Faith: Yeah.
• 47:57
  Natalie Mack: And then and you probably still do, but, like, everything was coming in the mail, and you had to fill out everything by paper and mail it back. Now you can get on these websites. Many of them have even virtual tours. If you cannot, like, travel to the university, I always say in person visits are always best. You know?
• 48:16
  You sometimes do the virtuals. And check out those admissions pages. I've even seen universities that have admissions counselors specifically for homeschool students. So ask that question too. You might be surprised that they actually have someone.
• 48:32
  Don't think your child's the first homeschool student going to college. Don't worry about that. We've already paved the way.
• 48:38
  Christy-Faith: Well and I know for a fact that colleges are actively recruiting homeschool students because of the particular skill set that we generally have
• 48:48
  Natalie Mack: Yeah.
• 48:48
  Christy-Faith: That is a marked difference in terms of future success. So for example, homeschool students, we do have that retention of love of learning. So there is that intrinsic motivation. Right. In general, we are a very well read population.
• 49:02
  Our kids have read the classics and
• 49:03
  Natalie Mack: and
• 49:04
  Christy-Faith: the good literature and have really sunk their teeth into it in general. Thinking. It yeah. Our students the homeschool space tends to emphasize writing skills
• 49:15
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 49:16
  Christy-Faith: Which I think is a way step up above the current writing programs that we see in the public school system. So we can our kids can write essays pretty easily.
• 49:26
  Natalie Mack: Exactly.
• 49:26
  Christy-Faith: That's not a challenge for them. And also because a lot of our students, when they have been homeschooled through high school, they're generally more autodidactic. So that's a a $10 word for their self learners. Yeah. They can open a book, teach themselves.
• 49:41
  Right. That's really a goal. Not every student can reach that. I understand their special needs, all all of that. But ultimately, hopefully, even if you're listening right now and your kid is younger, you're working towards your kid not needing you to sit next to them for seven hours.
• 49:56
  Right. Yeah. Right? Like, just start early where mommy's gonna walk away and fold the laundry, and I want you to try those two math problems. You don't have to do them right.
• 50:05
  You don't have to get them right, but just trying. Right. Gonna come back and celebrate. It starts early, you guys. It starts really early.
• 50:13
  But I can tell you firsthand because I started that early and again, I came into homeschooling as an educational expert already knowing what I wanted later. Mhmm. But I I am just reaping the benefits of my kids being self starters, cracking open a book, figuring out their own portals. Right. And and I only have you know, my youngest is still 10.
• 50:36
  That's not old. Right. But but it's because we've always we've let them make mistakes. We let a lesson take longer so they could figure stuff out. I didn't panic over not covering material because I knew them figuring stuff out was more important Right.
• 50:52
  Than memorizing the periodic table Yes. For example. So yeah, I think that that absolutely as you're pursuing that four year degree that colleges love these skills. Mhmm. And the more that you can foster these, the more honestly marketable your kid is in the workforce later.
• 51:14
  We now know employers are looking for skills more than content. They're looking for all of those soft skills.
• 51:21
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 51:21
  Christy-Faith: There's been studies now on it that we are the employers are realizing now that if they can hire someone teachable with good interpersonal skills and good character, they can learn anything. Right. And that that employee is a better buy for them, a better investment for them
• 51:41
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 51:41
  Christy-Faith: Than as, dare I say, as CS Lewis stated so beautifully a long time ago, more clever a more clever devil. And what he was saying there was, don't just focus on the academics and ignore the soul. And I love now that the workforce is now rewarding all that soul work that we've been doing for, you know, the last forty years in homeschooling at least. So was there anything you wanted to add before I ask you where parents can find you and your resources? But anything regarding the content.
• 52:14
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. So a couple of things. Don't apologize for homeschooling. Yeah, girl. Don't apologize.
• 52:21
  Yeah. Like Amen. Like, I just wanna shout. Yeah. You can do this.
• 52:29
  Don't don't apologize as if, oh, you know, don't don't even plant that seed. Don't allow that seed to fester that somehow homeschooling is less than or that somehow colleges look at your student as less than. Don't even don't even let that fester because then your student takes that. And your student thinks, okay, they approached the college campus of, I was homeschooled.
• 52:54
  Christy-Faith: Mhmm.
• 52:54
  Natalie Mack: Right? No. Walk in what you provided. Walk in the foundation that you gave. Right?
• 53:01
  Your student going to college campus, yes, I was homeschooled, and be confident about it. It's okay. All the skills, all the opportunities, all the extracurriculars, all of those unique classes that the student wanted to take and delve into, you know, all the scouts, all the things, whatever you did, all of it comes together. Let the student know you are more than qualified and you earned that admissions on that campus. That's what
• 53:28
  Christy-Faith: I wanted. I love that. Great. So where can parents find you and your resources? Everything you say, we are gonna link in the show notes, but I also want you to say it.
• 53:38
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. So you can find me on my website, natalie, and then it's a -mac,mack,.com. You can find me on socials. I'm homeschool Natalie Mac on all social platforms, including TikTok. I've been showing up there, Instagram, all the things.
• 53:54
  I am on LinkedIn as well. Just Natalie Mac. You can find me there. I'm trying to think what else? Oh gosh.
• 54:01
  I have a boot camp that we're gonna be providing a discount for your audience. Definitely there. And reach out to me. There's so many opportunities for us to continue working together. I'm excited about that.
• 54:14
  And I'm just thankful to to be on with my friend, Christy. So thank you.
• 54:18
  Christy-Faith: Good. And we do have that coupon code. We will put that in the show notes right next to the link for that boot camp. And until then, you can download all of her things. Yeah.
• 54:27
  Don't go away though. Our episode is going to be on from homeschool to military service, enlistment, ROTC, service academies, and more. And that is how we're gonna wrap up this homeschooling high school series.
• 54:42
  Natalie Mack: Yeah.
• 54:43
  Christy-Faith: So stay tuned for that show, and we will see you there. Thanks for coming on, Natalie.
• 54:48
  Natalie Mack: Thank you, Christy.