Latest / History Harpies: Pop Culture, Past and Present / No, Cathy and Heathcliff Aren’t Hollywood’s First Mad Lovers (Ft. Wuthering Heights, Body Heat, & 9 1/2 Weeks)

Transcript

No, Cathy and Heathcliff Aren’t Hollywood’s First Mad Lovers (Ft. Wuthering Heights, Body Heat, & 9 1/2 Weeks) · History Harpies: Pop Culture, Past and Present

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  They say we're loud, opinionated, afraid Telling
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  us to hush, dim our historical light But darlings,
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  we're the Harpies, sharp and keen Unveiling the
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  truth behind the silver screen History Harpies
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  hear us roar Hi, and welcome to History Heartbeats.
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  I'm Lauren. And I'm Christine. And this is episode
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  19. Unbelievable. But Lauren, we have been really
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  amiss. It has been a month since our last episode.
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  We've been bad, bad girls. We need to be spanked
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  by Mickey Rourke. Oh my gosh. Today's theme is
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  going to be... Passionate, mad, love, spank.
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  Hot guys, hot women, and different power dynamics
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  of sex and betrayal and spanking and hats. Food,
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  food, hats. Yeah. We're going to be talking today
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  about the most recent movie version of Wuthering
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  Heights with Jacob Elordi. Young. And Margot
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  Robbie. And also a couple of older films, films
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  from the 1980s that deal pretty frankly with
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  these issues of sort of sex and... Domination.
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  Domination and power. And that is Body Heat from
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  1981, a film noir, which is really fantastic.
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  And also Nine and a Half Weeks, which was extremely
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  scandalous when it came out, what, 1985? Something
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  like that. With Kim Basinger and Mickey Rourke.
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  So let's talk about Weathering Heights, which
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  you and I saw together at the theater and we
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  were among the oldest people in the theater.
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  Now as I've told just about everyone I have talked
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  to about Wuthering Heights and probably many
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  of them listen to this pod until we'll find this
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  repetitive. Wuthering Heights was one of the
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  first films I've seen recently where every seat
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  in the theater was filled. Not only filled, but
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  filled with a girl in their 20s. It was remarkable.
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  Wearing a sorority sweatshirt. It was as if we
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  were in the West Village, Lauren. It really was.
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  SEC girls. It was. all about the SEC and all
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  about the Jacob Elordi gasp. The gasp heard around
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  the world. Around the world. So we will break
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  down the film, of course, for those of you who
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  haven't seen it and haven't read the novel by
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  Emily Bronte. The two of which do not resemble
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  each other at all. But the gasp, when we see
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  Jacob Elordi at a particular moment, I gasped,
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  Lauren gasped, the older woman next to me gasped,
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  all of the SEC girls gasped. It was akin to...
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  The going back to an earlier film did Julia Roberts
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  makeover in Pretty Woman when she's sitting at
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  the bar and Richard Gere sees her for the first
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  time. The Jacob Elordi makeover is similar to
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  that except that that man is so fine. So beautiful.
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  And that his makeover and his haircut and his,
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  you know, man of the world clothing. He just
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  looked Smokin'. And you know what's so funny
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  about that gasping moment is that I, of course,
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  and you as well, and maybe all of these SEC girls,
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  that image of him where we all gasped, that's
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  in the trailer. Right. So I had seen it like
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  a hundred times. For whatever reason. Whatever
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  reason, it was absolutely visceral. That's an
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  excellent point. It's almost as if we didn't
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  know we had already seen it. Exactly. But I think
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  the context of it, because before seeing him
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  with his makeover, he had the scragglier look,
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  he had the long hair. He still looked hot. But
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  he looked like a scrub. He looked like a scrub.
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  But then when we see him as the nobleman, it's
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  sort of like O .M. And I also think, probably
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  for someone our age, I have very, very strong
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  memories of having watched a million times the
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  Pride and Prejudice, the BBC version of Pride
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  and Prejudice, where Colin Firth plays Mr. Darcy
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  and is just completely just gorgeous and sexy.
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  Debonair. Debonair. And of course, Jacob Elordi
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  was throwing up very strong Mr. Darcy. Colin
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  Firth is Mr. Darcy vibes there. So, but there
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  are... The SEC girls probably didn't have that
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  same resonance and they were gasping. They were
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  gasping. They were gasping. Although I think
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  we have to point out, and I hope this doesn't
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  spoil anything for our listeners, that it was
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  very striking that when we finished the film,
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  one of the SEC girls behind us said, I didn't
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  know that she died at the end. I don't believe
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  that most of the people in the room have... have
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  read the book, are aware of the plot, are aware
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  that anyone dies, and really just understood
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  that Jacob Elordi and Margot Robbie were gonna
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  have sex a lot. And I think that was just enough
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  to bring them there, to take them through the
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  movie, and to make them super happy. And frankly,
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  for me too, mostly. And that is fair. And of
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  course, for those of you, I assume everyone listening
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  to us knows the basic plot of Wuthering Heights.
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  But of course, we have to distinguish the plot
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  of Wuthering Heights, the movie, from the plot
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  of Wuthering Heights, the novel. Because of course,
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  it's very, very different. Since in the novel,
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  Cathy dies. super early in the book, and so much
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  of the novel is about a much older Heathcliff,
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  who is an abuser, a kidnapper, a woman beater,
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  all of these terrible things. Shuffling around,
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  stirring up trouble. Being super cruel to sort
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  of the younger generation, that is Cathy's daughter
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  with Edgar, and her relationship with Heathcliff's
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  son and with the other son of Hindley, Cathy's
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  older brother. And obviously we have none of
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  that. None of that. But in general, other film
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  versions of Wuthering Heights, they haven't been
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  interested in that either. Right. So it's not
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  unusual that Emerald Fennell, who wrote and directed
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  this, went straight to the, this is Cathy, Cathy
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  Heathcliff. love story, a Romeo and Juliet kind
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  of situation, but with some other complications
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  involved, much more of a popcorn version of the
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  film and trying to make it appeal in the kind
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  of blockbuster way that, you know, I would, again,
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  parallel it to something like a Barbie or like,
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  again, when you put in these major, super hot
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  actors and you put some modern costuming in and
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  needle drafts and that kind of thing, then it
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  becomes something else. And so it's this creation
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  of Emerald Fennell, which is not in any way loyal
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  to the novel, but is its own thing that is supposed
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  to kind of, I think in some ways be a reinvention
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  of the, you know, sort of romantic drama, tragedy,
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  however we want to think about it. notebook you
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  know it's getting notebook answer and that makes
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  sense because one of the ways of course that
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  she has described it is that this is how she
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  wanted to represent how the novel made her feel
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  right when she read it as a fourteen short whatever
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  short and. It's interesting because both you
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  and I loved Saltburn. Yes. Her previous film.
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  Loved it. Also with Jacob Elordi. Loved it. It
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  was my favorite movie of that year that it came
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  out. I thought it was so spectacular. Just and
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  you know how much I love the talented Mr. Ripley.
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  An obvious take off on the talented Mr. Ripley.
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  But nevertheless different in its own way. So
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  creative. So exciting. And I think Saltburn was
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  really the only movie. I saw that year that was
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  sort of emotionally gripping as well as sort
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  of visually gripping and just fascinating. And
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  it surprised me. But you and I disagreed about
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  Wuthering Heights because I wasn't super crazy
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  about it. I know. And you know, thinking back
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  on it, Christine, here's the thing. I don't think
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  we disagree as much as we might think we disagree
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  because all I'm saying is I was there for it,
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  but I would have loved a campier, more modern,
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  more edgy, more sexy version of it. In other
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  words, it wasn't putting me to sleep and I didn't
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  leave angry and wanting to smash my hand through
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  a window from seeing it the way I did after,
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  I don't know. May, December? Yeah, or some other
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  awful thing I saw. Something else. As you know,
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  as I've told our listeners, my bar is low, okay?
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  And Elordi is so hot that he carried me through
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  the movie. I completely agree with your critique,
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  and I would have loved to go full camp, like
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  full on just... I wanted the Baz Luhrmann treatment.
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  And I would have loved, and I know it's funny
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  because when I told people that I saw Wuthering
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  Heights, they're like, oh, all that sex. I was
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  like, what sex? There's maybe like 10 minutes
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  in the middle of the film. And everyone is fully
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  clothed, and it's pretty conventional, and it
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  is in no way like Sawburn. I mean, you're not
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  watching someone humping a gra - Yes, like going
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  down on someone who's having her period and we
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  know about it a lot. Right, right. This is pretty
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  conventional sex. This is, again they have good
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  chemistry, but there's nothing about it that
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  is like a heated rivalry. kind of situation.
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  I'll trust you on that since I still haven't
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  watched it. Yeah, I mean, it's just pretty tepid.
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  And as I told people, my daughter saw it two
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  weeks before I did, but I would have seen it
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  with her and I wouldn't have at all felt uncomfortable
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  or anything because it just was so tepid. But
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  again, I was there for it because enough of it
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  carried me through to make me enjoy what I was
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  given. So it's just the kind of thing like, will
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  I watch it again? No. Would I watch Saltburn
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  again? Yes. And I might watch it tonight. I have
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  watched it again. Now that we've talked about
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  it, I will watch Saltburn again. But again, it's
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  like... I see where she was going. And also,
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  there's the issue of the Margot Robbie production
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  attached to it. And I don't know. I don't know
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  why it didn't go as far as it could have gone
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  in terms of being just a little bonkers. And
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  Euphoria, again, which is so interesting, Euphoria's
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  bonkers. And of course, Jacob Elordi is so wonderful
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  in that. And I would add, not wearing as much
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  clothes. euphoria as he is in Wuthering Heights.
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  I mean, the sex in euphoria is electric. And
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  a lot of it is creepy and also not consensual.
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  But the sex that is consensual is... is is vivid
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  and it is a provocative show and so he knows
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  how to do provocative work and I would argue
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  so does so does Margot Robbie and so I again
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  it was tame I think for a reason of being a kind
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  of popcorn blockbuster. Okay but see one of the
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  things that's very interesting to me about it
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  is that in a sense I find it ironic because the
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  film by the by including the sex the film actually
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  made the story more conventional, right? More
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  tame. Because, of course, for those of you who
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  haven't read the novel, although I'm assuming
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  everyone has. Don't assume that people have read
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  Wuthering Heights, Christine. I don't know exactly
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  who our core audience is. You never know. Actually,
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  I don't think Scott has. Scott, you probably
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  haven't read Wuthering Heights, and I'm not recommending
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  it. I actually was never ever ever taken by Wuthering
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  Heights. I read it for the first time probably
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  when I was 16. I wasn't interested in it very
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  much at all. But what of course people can kind
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  of grab onto with that story, it may be Emerald
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  Fennell as well, is the idea that Cathy and Heath,
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  to use a word you and I were just talking about
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  before the pod started, the idea in the novel
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  that... Kathy and Heathcliff are these sort of
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  soulmates, right? And Kathy says this explicitly,
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  I am Heathcliff, right? He and I are one person,
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  right? And they've grown up together. But there
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  is very much the sense that that love, that relationship,
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  that kind of... soul bonding, whatever, that
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  it transcends romantic and sexual love, right?
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  And she does marry Edgar in the novel. She says
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  that to marry Heathcliff would be an embarrassment
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  to her, which of course is in the film, that
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  it would degrade her to marry Heathcliff. And
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  of course she dies like five minutes later, right?
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  After they have done their whole embraces and
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  you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, standing
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  outside of her window looking at it. But I do
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  feel like since we do have all the sort of that
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  middle part with the sex in it. It just becomes
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  super conventional. Oh, look, her husband is
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  a dud. You know, he's not a great lover or whatever.
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  She somehow managed to get pregnant, right? Who
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  knows? And she's just having an affair with this
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  guy where they're sneaking around and hiding
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  and whatever. Like the notebook. Fair point.
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  And so that's what was really fascinating to
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  me is that yes, it wasn't even this kind of like,
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  oh, we're going to start whipping each other
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  in the stables. It was like, oh, we're having
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  this classic affair where we're running around
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  again in the backs of carriages. Actually, there
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  is a carriage, right? I thought that was really
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  fascinating, especially because Saltburn is so
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  daring. It is. But you can really see sort of
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  14 -year -old Emerald Fennell saying, oh, I'm
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  imagining they're having sex now or something.
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  And then she gets a chance to realize that. But
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  it actually made, in my opinion, for a weaker
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  film. I guess I was thinking that in the sort
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  of nine and a half weeks of it all, that Heathcliff
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  was going to turn into the Dom figure with Cathy,
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  that he is with, what's her name, Isabelle? Isabella.
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  Isabella, right. And that it was going to have
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  this kind of twisted, like, where it's not. It's
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  not. It's not. And that's where I was thinking
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  it was going to go. Because the novel character
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  is that way. Yes. And that he is not that way
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  with Cathy in the film. Yes, and I do think that
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  that is, and obviously it is, I totally agree
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  with you, right? It needed to be more campy,
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  right? So we have the one needle drop, right?
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  We needed like a hundred needle drops, right?
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  We needed, so it's like, okay, the costumes aren't
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  quite it, but the costumes needed to be... much
• 15:13
  more out there, right? Either modern or whatever.
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  You know, I wanted full on, like, sateen treatment,
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  right? Well, also the makeup could have been,
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  like, I mean, there are some scenes where it's
• 15:23
  a little daring, but there's, I mean, they need
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  just full on, like, courtesan, you know, that
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  situation. Raspatazz. Yes. But the idea, but
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  what you can also do, I think the most daring
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  choice, and again, it's a daring choice that
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  I think would have happened in Saltburn, is really
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  to confront the novel's reality. He is an abuser.
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  And that's why I think it's so funny, you know,
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  those SEC girls sitting behind me, where I'm
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  like, okay, this is a man who if we understand
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  him in 2026 terms, right, he's... super toxic.
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  Right. He is a literal abuser. He beats his wife.
• 16:00
  Right. He kidnaps young Kathy. And he basically
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  like steals everyone's money. You know, he's
• 16:06
  a monster. And he's not a monster just kind of
• 16:08
  like, oh, he's like, you know, misunderstood.
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  He's you never know. Right. You never know why,
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  you know, he hates, um, Cathy's older brother
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  because Cathy's older brother is so mean to him.
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  But there's really no other kind of sense. You
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  know, he blames Edgar for this marriage, but
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  it's like, well, why? Right. It's just, and so
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  he is such a vile, evil character. Yes. And I
• 16:31
  think that actually showing that. Right. But
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  they're not going to show that. But they're not,
• 16:36
  but again, I, but Saltburn gave us something
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  like that. Correct. And that's why I think I
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  wanted that sort of super daring. The sex part
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  isn't daring, as you said. It's just so vanilla.
• 16:47
  Again, straight up affair. They might as well
• 16:49
  be like co -workers in a law firm. And so that's
• 16:54
  something I really, really wanted. What does
• 16:56
  that film look like when you say Cathy is madly
• 16:59
  in love with a man? Who is a soulmate. Total
• 17:02
  sadist. Who is a sadist and an abuser and is...
• 17:05
  quote unquote toxic, and where you really just,
• 17:08
  he is super evil to her daughter, right? And
• 17:12
  I think that that again would be fascinating.
• 17:14
  It would be, but we're not going to go there.
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  But we're not going to go there. But I think
• 17:18
  that would have made a much more exciting, especially
• 17:21
  then with the sex, right? It would have been
• 17:22
  a much more interesting and fascinating film.
• 17:26
  So anyway, I don't know. I just, but the other
• 17:28
  thing, why is it that Jacob Elordi is so much
• 17:32
  sexier in this film? than he was in Saltburn.
• 17:35
  Because I think that's true. I don't know if
• 17:36
  you would agree with me about that. I have to
• 17:37
  watch it again. Okay. And I'm also now, for some
• 17:40
  reason, Frankenstein is coming up in my head.
• 17:42
  Which I still haven't watched. So, like, I'm
• 17:44
  having, like, a kind of split vision of Jacob
• 17:47
  Elordi. I mean, but he's hot in euphoria. I'm
• 17:51
  pretty sure he was hot in Saltburn. I mean, he
• 17:53
  was definitely hot. He's just not gaspable. No,
• 17:57
  well, I don't know. He might have been. He might
• 17:59
  have been. I just have to really think about
• 18:01
  it. And I have to go back and watch Saltburn.
• 18:03
  He's just always wearing those Oxford shirts
• 18:05
  and jeans and stuff. He looks great. He looks
• 18:07
  gorgeous. He was not dressed like a nobleman,
• 18:09
  for sure. Exactly. But again, he's just, yeah.
• 18:14
  Okay, so what does it mean? We need to think
• 18:16
  about this, I think, more broadly. What does
• 18:18
  it mean? Because also, I didn't tell you, we
• 18:21
  visited, my class visited Special Collections
• 18:23
  the other day, and one of the librarians had
• 18:26
  gotten out some, like, 1940s -era comics of Wuthering
• 18:30
  Heights. And so she asked the class, you know,
• 18:33
  who here has seen Wuthering Heights? And of course,
• 18:35
  like, you know, three of the girls in the class
• 18:37
  were like, me! And I also, of course, raised
• 18:39
  my hand. But what does it mean that this is something
• 18:42
  that... that girls are actually going to the
• 18:46
  movies and watching. And they were quiet the
• 18:49
  whole time, right? They were actually like, they
• 18:51
  weren't on their phones, right? They weren't
• 18:54
  like, like, chit -chatting to each other until
• 18:56
  the very end, when again, that poor girl said,
• 18:58
  I didn't realize that Cathy died. So what does
• 19:03
  it mean? Right? And what does it tell us? You
• 19:05
  know whether about their relationship to popular
• 19:08
  culture, their relationship. And again, they're
• 19:09
  not going to read the novel. I hope they don't
• 19:12
  because it will completely disillusion them if
• 19:14
  they read the novel. They are not going to read
• 19:16
  the novel. I'm pretty sure it's not going to
• 19:19
  be assigned in school either. True, true. Which
• 19:22
  is where I read it. Oh you did? I did not. In
• 19:26
  high school we had, you know, books that we were
• 19:28
  assigned and then we had like cart day where
• 19:31
  like you had to read the book from the cart but
• 19:34
  they passed around different books and then you
• 19:36
  would pick up the book from the cart and then
• 19:38
  you would write a paper on it and mine was Weathering
• 19:40
  Heights. Oh. So and I really enjoyed that actually
• 19:44
  which I don't know what that says about me but
• 19:46
  I really liked Weathering Heights a lot but I
• 19:49
  read it in high school. I was you know why I
• 19:51
  liked it because I wasn't taught it. The cart
• 19:54
  books were my favorite books. Because nobody
• 19:57
  shoved them down my throat and made me think
• 19:59
  of them in some awful way with some awful teacher
• 20:02
  who had no idea what they were doing. So yes,
• 20:05
  the cart books, strangely most of the cart books
• 20:07
  were my kind of Victorian era Bronte, Austin,
• 20:12
  were my cart books. It's probably why I like
• 20:14
  that genre so much. So did you read Pride and
• 20:16
  Prejudice in high school? Yeah. Jane Eyre, all
• 20:19
  of it. But like not attached to a class, just
• 20:20
  as like a card book? In the card. Yes. It was
• 20:22
  in my English class, but like we would be like
• 20:24
  - But in the card, not like in assigned, we're
• 20:25
  reading Pride and Prejudice. No, they would assign
• 20:27
  us like Huckleberry Finn and then on the side
• 20:29
  from the card, I would be reading Jane Os - I
• 20:32
  would be reading, well, just something on my
• 20:33
  own that I could write about and then have my
• 20:36
  own ideas rather than being tested on every line
• 20:39
  in like some book that might be a great book.
• 20:41
  when I read it in college, but it's a horrible
• 20:44
  book in high school. So yeah, so that's probably
• 20:47
  why I have such an affinity for those Victorian
• 20:51
  novelists because they were cart books. That
• 20:54
  is really fascinating. I do not like my books
• 20:57
  shoved down my throat. See, my copy of Jane Eyre
• 21:01
  and Pride and Prejudice, I actually stole from
• 21:04
  my high school, snuck into the teacher's lounge
• 21:06
  and actually stole it. It still says - You revel
• 21:08
  in it. I know, isn't that crazy? You stole books.
• 21:10
  Next thing I'll be smoking at school too. It
• 21:12
  actually still says property of Deering High
• 21:13
  School right there on the inside cover. You stole
• 21:16
  books. Such a radical. But I mean, one more thing
• 21:20
  I do want to say about Wuthering Heights, because
• 21:22
  I re - watched the Laurence Olivier version.
• 21:26
  And you know, Laurence Olivier himself was a
• 21:28
  beautiful man. Not as sexy as Jacob Bellardi,
• 21:31
  but a beautiful man. Well, in his own time. In
• 21:33
  his own time, but still. But it really is, that
• 21:36
  in a sense I think is disappointing about Wuthering
• 21:39
  Heights, is that it really is pretty much the
• 21:42
  1940s era. And of course there's been a ton of
• 21:45
  other adaptations too, but it's kind of the Laurence
• 21:47
  Olivier version just with like 10 or 15 minutes
• 21:49
  of sex shoved in the middle of it, which I think
• 21:51
  is, you know. Okay, it could have been so much
• 21:54
  more. It could have been much more exciting as
• 21:57
  an adaptation and as a film. But I will say again,
• 22:00
  and this is probably another reason why I didn't
• 22:02
  hate it, girls going to the movies all together,
• 22:06
  love it. Love it. I agree. Hear for it. I agree.
• 22:08
  Happy to be in a movie theater that is packed.
• 22:11
  And maybe some standing, and that may have been
• 22:15
  what got the movie over the hump for me from
• 22:18
  meh to here for it. I agree. Because just that
• 22:22
  alone, I mean, the last thing I saw that had
• 22:25
  that many people in it, but not that even kind
• 22:27
  of energy. I saw Wicked had a lot of people when
• 22:30
  I saw Wicked, but it didn't have that same demographic,
• 22:34
  because Wicked, of course, had a lot of kids
• 22:36
  and adults and things like that. a film that
• 22:39
  had one demographic, and again, people looking
• 22:42
  for seats, and some people that maybe didn't
• 22:45
  sit, and that experience. And a rated R movie.
• 22:47
  And a rated R movie. So I am here for that. I
• 22:51
  agree. And I'm not gonna, again, I'm not going
• 22:55
  to throw shade on that experience. Yes. And it
• 22:57
  is so funny because if you remember when you
• 22:59
  and I saw Salt Bird at the movies, I think there
• 23:01
  were maybe like six people there. Yes. Yes. It
• 23:04
  was totally empty. I think we can count on many
• 23:07
  hands the number of movies where you and I made
• 23:08
  from New Orleans. But even something like The
• 23:11
  Housemaid, is that the name? Okay, you would
• 23:13
  think that would have been Sorority Girl. Yeah.
• 23:15
  like packed to the gills sort of girls. No, it
• 23:17
  was not. Because of Sidney Sweeney and, but it
• 23:20
  wasn't. Although in fairness though, that was,
• 23:21
  we went right before Christmas. No. And so I
• 23:24
  do wonder if maybe it would have been a little
• 23:25
  bit different. But I don't think so. But Hope
• 23:27
  hasn't seen the housemaid. Oh, okay. So I'm saying
• 23:30
  I can judge. She is the fact. She's my barometer.
• 23:33
  If she's seen it. She's your Nielsen rating.
• 23:35
  She is. She's my Nielsen rating. If she's seen
• 23:37
  it, if she knows what it is. and she's going
• 23:40
  out with a bunch of girlfriends on a Friday night
• 23:41
  to a movie theater. That movie is a hot movie,
• 23:44
  okay? And she has not seen The Housemaid. Now
• 23:47
  she might watch it when it comes on HBO or something
• 23:49
  like that, but she's not running to see it with
• 23:52
  a packed theater of sorority girls. I hear you.
• 23:56
  And that really is, I mean, that experience was
• 23:57
  so, in itself, totally agree with you, so satisfying.
• 24:01
  So that's what you want, right? We were there
• 24:02
  on a Saturday night, packed house, Saturday night,
• 24:05
  right? This is what I want, as Nicole Kidman
• 24:07
  tells us, right? This is what we want out of
• 24:09
  going to the movies. And so yeah, I agree with
• 24:11
  you. I absolutely treasure that and do not deny
• 24:15
  its power. Yeah, and I might really hate the
• 24:17
  movie if the Sorority Girls hadn't been there.
• 24:20
  But they... I didn't know Cathy does! It was
• 24:23
  just great for that. So, maybe we should move
• 24:27
  on to our next movie, which is nine and a half
• 24:31
  weeks. No, Body Heat. We're talking about Body
• 24:33
  Heat. Oh, we're talking about Body Heat. Okay.
• 24:34
  Yeah. And then we'll get to nine and a half weeks.
• 24:35
  I'm going in the wrong order. Because we're going
• 24:36
  to go in order of Mickey Rourke's career. Oh,
• 24:39
  good Lord. Mickey Rourke. Okay, now here, Christine
• 24:41
  sent me a picture. I peed Mickey Rourke's face.
• 24:43
  She sent me a picture yesterday or the day before.
• 24:46
  I did not even recognize who it was. I mean,
• 24:49
  now Mickey Rourke, which I didn't even know who
• 24:53
  he looks like or what he looks like. Like, what
• 24:56
  is that? He actually looks like Jacob Lordi in
• 24:59
  Frankenstein. I'm not joking! Well, did you see
• 25:02
  The Wrestler? Remember, that came out more than
• 25:05
  10 years ago. Right? That came out a while ago.
• 25:09
  Because already, right, that was supposed to
• 25:10
  be his big comeback film. Right? He was nominated
• 25:12
  for like an Oscar or a Golden Globe or whatever.
• 25:14
  I completely forgot about that. He already looked
• 25:16
  ravaged in the wrestling. But I think he probably
• 25:19
  looks rough. He looks rough. He is like someone
• 25:23
  you would cast now as like thug three. Yes. Or
• 25:29
  something like that. Yes. But he was the most...
• 25:34
  beautiful man. So compelling. And I had totally
• 25:38
  forgotten about Diner, which I haven't seen in
• 25:41
  a million years. I keep meaning to re -watch
• 25:43
  it, to see Kevin Bacon, and like Steve Jobs.
• 25:45
  That's a definite re -watch. But oh my gosh,
• 25:49
  I mean so, but he does have this tiny, tiny part
• 25:53
  in Body Heat. And for those of you who have not
• 25:56
  seen Body Heat, starring William Hurt, I hate
• 26:00
  to say it. love William Hurt. I know that he
• 26:02
  basically got on everyone's bad side when Marlee
• 26:05
  Matlin was saying that he had been very kind
• 26:07
  of unkind and cruel in his relationship with
• 26:10
  her. Nevertheless, love William Hurt. Such a
• 26:14
  perfect 80s actor. Now, here's the thing that
• 26:17
  I didn't realize in watching Body Heat again,
• 26:20
  okay? Is that William Hurt and Kevin Costner
• 26:23
  have a lot physically in common. Oh, interesting.
• 26:28
  Okay. And I hadn't put those two together until
• 26:32
  watching Body Heat again. Because their profile
• 26:35
  is similar, and the mustache kind of blows you
• 26:39
  off a little bit, but also their physique is
• 26:41
  very similar. And they have a similar mannerism
• 26:45
  about themselves. And one could see, again, I
• 26:47
  know Kevin Costner is older now, but that Kevin
• 26:50
  Costner in a different day would have been a
• 26:53
  good Body Heat male lead. OK, A, I agree with
• 26:58
  you about that. And B, I was just thinking yesterday
• 27:03
  about No Way Out. Yes. For me, that's a real,
• 27:05
  that's a real watch. Excellent. I love No Way
• 27:07
  Out. Every time that is on cable, I watch it.
• 27:10
  Have to watch it. I mean, you know, we once spoiled
• 27:11
  the twist ending. And Sean Young. Fantastic.
• 27:14
  And Gene Hackman. And the picture. And so good.
• 27:17
  Oh, love it. But, of course, I'm guessing you
• 27:20
  know this little bit of movie lore, which is,
• 27:22
  of course, The Big Chill, which is the film that
• 27:25
  Lawrence Kasdan did after Body Heat, also starring
• 27:28
  William Hurd. You know, that Kevin Costner...
• 27:30
  was cast to play the dead friend, Alex, who commits
• 27:34
  suicide. And so the whole dead body, like that
• 27:38
  is Kevin Costner. Kevin Costner had that, because
• 27:40
  there were flashbacks in the original cut of
• 27:43
  The Big Chill. So I made the connect. Yeah, you
• 27:46
  made the connection. But again, Lawrence Caston.
• 27:49
  already knew Kevin Costner, they were both in
• 27:52
  body heat, even though Kevin Costner was then
• 27:54
  cut out of, I'm sorry, big shell. Big shell.
• 27:57
  Was cut out of the big shell. Interesting. So
• 27:58
  yes, you made a really good... A really good,
• 28:00
  and not knowing all this. And not knowing that.
• 28:02
  See? Isn't it? No, totally agree. So what I think
• 28:06
  is really interesting, there are many things
• 28:08
  interesting about Body Heat, but it pretty much
• 28:10
  is, I don't know if Laurence Kasdan, who wrote
• 28:12
  and directed this film, I don't know if he ever
• 28:14
  admitted it, but it basically is a remake of
• 28:17
  the fantastic 40s film, Double Indemnity, which
• 28:21
  is one of my favorite films ever. I'm actually
• 28:24
  re -watching it now. The classic film noir setup
• 28:28
  of the woman who gets a sap to murder her husband
• 28:31
  so she can inherit him. the money right and but
• 28:35
  much like we just said sort of Laurence Olivier
• 28:37
  weathering hides but with sex this film is basically
• 28:41
  double indemnity with an awful lot of sex and
• 28:44
  an awful lot of sweating awful awful lot of sweat
• 28:48
  there is no we are in Florida in this film He
• 28:52
  doesn't seem like anyone has AC. I don't care
• 28:55
  that nobody has AC. So this was also, I think,
• 28:58
  one of the very first films of Kathleen Turner,
• 29:02
  goddess. And the idea that Kathleen Turner played
• 29:08
  Matthew Perry's trans father. I'm sorry, that's
• 29:13
  what I meant to say. Father turned to mother.
• 29:18
  Yes, I just misspoke. mother is the craziest
• 29:21
  thing ever going back to look when you see this
• 29:24
  early film yeah it's it's amazing and actually
• 29:27
  i saw a picture of Kathleen Turner that i did
• 29:29
  not send to you because i thought it would be
• 29:31
  too upsetting because yeah she she looks very
• 29:35
  very different now okay and you know but i've
• 29:38
  always kind of wondered because she was notoriously
• 29:40
  vain because of course she's so was so exceptionally
• 29:43
  beautiful and super sexy And you might remember
• 29:46
  that she was once interviewed. This was back
• 29:47
  in the 80s. And she said that if she walked into
• 29:50
  a room, and if a man did not stare at her like
• 29:54
  lustily, she knew he was gay. And so I think
• 29:57
  that basically now, in effect, she is being punished
• 30:00
  for that hubris in a classic Greek tragedy way.
• 30:04
  But she has not aged well. I hate to remember.
• 30:06
  Well, let's set aside one little segment for
• 30:08
  her hair. Because just like the Daphne Zuniga
• 30:12
  hair, she somehow Now in a heat wave with the
• 30:16
  Florida humidity has brek hair. Perfectly, perfectly
• 30:21
  quaffed. It's perfectly curled. It is never out
• 30:24
  of place. Never. And it is... Even when they've
• 30:27
  been doing it in the heat? For like hours? Yeah,
• 30:28
  for hours. For hours. And it still looks incredible.
• 30:31
  Her hair looks good by the ocean. I have never
• 30:35
  seen hair like that. that never gets affected
• 30:39
  by the elements and I would need like 30 keratins
• 30:42
  and I don't even know what and flat irons and
• 30:45
  god knows what to have that hair even in a normal
• 30:48
  circumstance but her hair is so amazing and of
• 30:52
  course she has this sort of one side you know
• 30:55
  combed over which is very 80s but she manages
• 30:59
  to pull it off without making it look dated so
• 31:02
  I appreciate that about her look she also has
• 31:06
  now Another thing I'm watching, and I'm going
• 31:08
  to draw some parallels. Please. We're not talking
• 31:10
  about this today, but the John and Carolyn show.
• 31:13
  Oh, yes, yes, yes. I would argue that Kathleen
• 31:16
  Turner in Body Heat is pre Calvin Klein minimalism
• 31:20
  because her outfits, she wears so much white.
• 31:24
  Yes, very simple. She wears so many super simple
• 31:26
  and so many button down shirts. Yes. That Calvin
• 31:30
  then. dressed so many people in. And if you see
• 31:35
  the Carolyn and John show, you'll see so many
• 31:39
  button down shirts. Okay, but she also reads
• 31:41
  really Halston to me. Yeah. You know, obviously
• 31:43
  we don't see her in sort of gowns, but like that
• 31:46
  same kind of like sort of you can see how you're
• 31:48
  edging out of the 70s, right? And again, I agree,
• 31:51
  right into this kind of 80s minimalism. So she
• 31:54
  doesn't have the shoulder pads. She doesn't have
• 31:56
  any, she doesn't wear any prints. She has, I
• 31:59
  mean, that first outfit she's in when they get
• 32:00
  together. at the bar, she has on that like tomato
• 32:03
  skirt. Which is like the only time she's wearing
• 32:05
  color. Any color, right? She's wearing white
• 32:07
  or black in most of the film, but she does have,
• 32:12
  and again, there's some details there that aren't
• 32:14
  exactly, you can tell they're 80s, like the covered
• 32:16
  buttons and things like that, that you wouldn't
• 32:18
  see in the 90s. But she's definitely moving towards
• 32:22
  that Calvin Ralph aesthetic. I agree, I agree.
• 32:25
  That is, again, so different than a Kim Bae singer
• 32:27
  look. Yes. Right? But she's definitely anticipating
• 32:31
  some of those minimalist uh silhouettes and of
• 32:36
  course and what really works you know and her
• 32:37
  body is just insane but of course she has incredibly
• 32:41
  small breasts yes and so i really love that she's
• 32:44
  she's still kind of doing this sort of 1970s
• 32:47
  sort of disco, bra -less thing, right? She can
• 32:51
  still do that. Yeah. And it just, it really is
• 32:53
  amazing because a film like that, and I don't
• 32:54
  know if you have the same reaction, I just want
• 32:56
  to cry, right? When you see that kind of natural
• 33:00
  body, and you can really see that as a holdover
• 33:01
  from 1970s things. Sure. Right? Absolutely, right?
• 33:04
  The small breasts, the like no one's wearing
• 33:05
  the bra, but the idea of this supernatural body
• 33:08
  as being the most sexy one. And also, as we've
• 33:11
  talked about, off the pod. The curviness of her
• 33:15
  face, like Basinger's, right? It is not the alien
• 33:18
  face of today. It is not. She has this beautiful
• 33:21
  cheek roll. She has beautiful curves in her cheeks.
• 33:23
  She has, you know, a rounder face. She's not
• 33:26
  that pointy alien look. So it's interesting to
• 33:31
  see that sort of softness and but also a very
• 33:36
  different kind of the body and she's you know
• 33:38
  and very very sexy but very womanly and um and
• 33:43
  again William Hurt too who isn't jacked by any
• 33:47
  and neither is Mickey Rohr yeah but both of them
• 33:50
  are naked or in in a lot of the movie or especially
• 33:53
  William Hurt um and you see the way that his
• 33:57
  body is amazing and um But it looks completely
• 34:01
  normal. Very different aesthetic. And it's really
• 34:03
  funny because of course every single time we
• 34:04
  see him jogging, which actually always reminds
• 34:08
  me of the big chill. Those scenes of him jogging
• 34:10
  in body heat. But of course he always starts
• 34:11
  smoking every time he stops his run, pulls out
• 34:15
  his cigarettes. And it is, so we have again this
• 34:18
  very, very classic trope of he plays this lawyer
• 34:23
  who kind of gets hoodwinked into murdering her
• 34:26
  husband. Again. absolutely classic. We've seen
• 34:29
  it a million times before, but this film is so
• 34:33
  good. It is so good. And the chemistry between
• 34:36
  them. So again, is absolutely insane. And you
• 34:39
  know, we've talked before, right? Sort of this,
• 34:41
  this moment in sort of late 1960s, 1970s film
• 34:45
  where all of a sudden people are like, we're
• 34:47
  going to show boobs. Oh, great. We get to show
• 34:48
  boobs now. We get to have sex scenes, right?
• 34:50
  We get to have all this gratuitous stuff. None
• 34:53
  of this is gratuitous. No. It is so... i don't
• 34:56
  know it's just i think it's very not it's very
• 34:58
  natural it's very natural it's purposeful it's
• 35:01
  purposeful And it really is on the chemistry
• 35:04
  between them and that very famous scene where
• 35:07
  she is inside the house, right? He is sort of
• 35:09
  going around and he throws the chair to smash
• 35:12
  the window. And I'm always like, who fixed the
• 35:14
  window? And I'm like, didn't the alarm go off?
• 35:17
  There's no alarm in this like million dollar
• 35:20
  mansion or air conditioning and even says like,
• 35:24
  are you scared to be here alone? She's like,
• 35:26
  no. And so we really, I mean, we have a twist
• 35:29
  ending, and we see Kim Zimmer, of course, who
• 35:33
  you and I both love as Riva in Guiding Light
• 35:36
  for so many years. How many last names has Riva
• 35:38
  had on Guiding Light? So many. Spalding. Spalding,
• 35:43
  and... And what, Cooper? Wasn't she married to
• 35:46
  Boz? Cooper? I don't remember, but she had basically
• 35:51
  like... So she was married to what? Josh? Three
• 35:54
  members of the same family. She was married to
• 35:56
  Alan. Yeah. Wait, she was married to Alan? I
• 36:00
  thought she was married to Alan Spaulding. And
• 36:02
  she was married to HB, Josh, and Billy. Right.
• 36:05
  All of them. Yes. And of course, she and Josh
• 36:09
  were a super couple. Yes. They were soulmates.
• 36:15
  They were soulmates. They were soulmates. Joshua!
• 36:18
  So it was great to see Kim Zimmer. I've always
• 36:20
  wondered why Kim Zimmer wasn't in more films.
• 36:23
  But of course, she was kept so busy on Guiding
• 36:25
  Light for 30 years or whatever it was. She was
• 36:27
  a powerhouse on Guiding Light. Yeah, she really
• 36:30
  was. She carried that show, in my opinion. It
• 36:32
  absolutely carried it. So we have them in Body
• 36:35
  Heat. Is it fair to say, okay, is this couple
• 36:39
  in Body Heat? Would you do you think they're
• 36:43
  in love in this kind of again Wuthering Heights
• 36:45
  kind of like They are definitely in lust. There's
• 36:49
  no question. Are they in love? No, okay. Okay.
• 36:53
  Why not? Why do you say? Well, because one is
• 36:57
  plotting to kill her husband well, I think the
• 37:02
  William Hurt character is offered in a way that
• 37:06
  is incapable of real emotion. Yes. And so he
• 37:10
  is emotionally sunted. You see him in the very
• 37:12
  beginning going kind of going through like women
• 37:14
  in uniform. Like he's a nurse and then a waitress.
• 37:18
  And he never has a whole lot of depth. He's very
• 37:21
  superficial. Of course, with her, you know, she's
• 37:24
  going to be the vamp. She's going to be the kind
• 37:26
  of again, classic femme fatale. And the two of
• 37:30
  them are in these kind of characters. But again,
• 37:33
  what's interesting is that even though I don't
• 37:36
  think either one of them is in love with the
• 37:38
  other, the chemistry and the dynamics between
• 37:41
  the two are so interesting and exciting that
• 37:44
  it kind of doesn't matter. But of course, they
• 37:47
  keep saying that they love each other. And I
• 37:51
  do think one of the interesting things about
• 37:52
  it is, well, okay, because of course, the very
• 37:54
  last thing that we see Kathleen Turner's character
• 37:57
  say, Maddie, before she goes and goes off, is,
• 38:03
  oh, I really did love you. And so. And you're
• 38:06
  like, yeah, whatever lady. But I think that that's
• 38:08
  such an interesting thing, right? And I think
• 38:11
  it's made much more clear in Double Indemnity,
• 38:13
  which we won't talk about. I love it so much.
• 38:16
  But I think it's interesting to think about,
• 38:19
  is this that he's sort of the Patsy, right, all
• 38:21
  along? Is this all a set? Because we do know
• 38:24
  that she, in effect, has arranged the meeting.
• 38:26
  Right. Right. So we also do have this kind of
• 38:28
  sense of like, oh, well, you know, it started
• 38:31
  out in this kind of very, I don't know, way where
• 38:34
  I was just wanted to hoodwink you into my plan,
• 38:37
  but then I fell in love with you. But it's unclear.
• 38:39
  And in a sense, we don't really need to know.
• 38:41
  We don't need to know. I don't. believe it. So
• 38:44
  you don't think that he was in love with her?
• 38:47
  I think that he was infatuated with her. But
• 38:50
  I am not sure that that character was capable
• 38:54
  of being in love with her. I think he was infatuated
• 38:56
  with her. I think she was different. I think
• 38:58
  she's all the things that everyone said. She's
• 39:01
  trouble. She's gonna break your heart. All that
• 39:05
  stuff. And I think that, yes, he's the Patsy.
• 39:08
  He's the kind of incompetent, you know, like
• 39:11
  small town. broke on his luck, down on his luck.
• 39:16
  Eating at the diner every day with Ted Danson.
• 39:19
  Correct. He is somebody who can interestingly
• 39:22
  be easily duped, but is also made out to be kind
• 39:25
  of smarter than the average Joe at the same time.
• 39:29
  Smarter than lawyers of his ilk. Okay, but also
• 39:33
  someone who's equally duped by someone who is
• 39:34
  not his equal, which is her. Which is her. And
• 39:37
  of course we do see that there are all of these
• 39:38
  ways in which she is able to basically frame,
• 39:41
  not frame him because of course he's actually
• 39:43
  guilty, but in which she is able to have all
• 39:45
  of the blame fall on him. I will say one little
• 39:48
  detail that I like that where I'm like, oh, maybe
• 39:50
  he is smart is when, so he has these two friends,
• 39:53
  right? The prosecutor played by Ted Danson and
• 39:55
  the cop. I don't know the actor who plays the
• 39:56
  cop. And it's so great because of course he then
• 39:59
  gets to a point after the husband where he's
• 40:01
  like, oh yeah, I'm banging her all the time.
• 40:03
  And I was like, oh, that's actually kind of a
• 40:05
  clever thing to do. It is clever, but it's also
• 40:07
  stupid. But if he is being watched, right, and
• 40:12
  of course the cop friend does start to kind of
• 40:15
  trail him. Right, but he also, he knows he's
• 40:17
  gonna keep seeing her because he can't not see
• 40:20
  her. He can't not see her. So he's gonna just
• 40:22
  tell everybody and then say, oh, we just met
• 40:25
  and now we just started hooking up. And she just
• 40:28
  hit on me, rather than staying away from her.
• 40:30
  which would have been the smarter thing to do.
• 40:33
  But he just can't help himself. And of course,
• 40:35
  this also, right, is a trope in films like this,
• 40:38
  right? The couple that cannot stay away from
• 40:40
  each other and hence their guilt is. But that's
• 40:44
  the other thing is I'm like, making a bomb. I'm
• 40:46
  like, isn't that really kind of like the stupidest?
• 40:49
  But I also didn't kind of, I'm like, okay, so
• 40:52
  he makes the bomb to make it look like arson,
• 40:54
  but then wouldn't a medical examiner in like
• 40:56
  five seconds say like... It's too elaborate.
• 40:58
  He should have just thrown him in the ocean with
• 41:00
  the alligators and let it be that. There's no
• 41:03
  reason also that he took him to a property that
• 41:06
  his own company owned. So it's too many loose
• 41:09
  ends and also he's now involved Mickey Rourke.
• 41:13
  If he just fed him to the alligators, there wouldn't
• 41:17
  be another witness. There wouldn't be a reason
• 41:20
  to drive so far. It kind of doesn't make sense.
• 41:23
  It didn't make sense. That it was not the best.
• 41:25
  Because I was so confused because I had forgotten
• 41:27
  it because I hadn't seen it in a long time. And
• 41:28
  I was like, oh, wait a minute. So they're actually
• 41:30
  killing him in their house. I'm like, that's
• 41:33
  the stupidest thing to do. It is the stupidest
• 41:36
  thing. But then we wouldn't have had the little
• 41:37
  moment of, like, where she has to have sex with
• 41:39
  Richard Crenna, her husband, in order to basically,
• 41:41
  like, you know, postpone for a few minutes. But
• 41:44
  anyway. Right, right. Yeah. But it is interesting
• 41:47
  because I do think I'm like, why does this film
• 41:49
  work so well? But it does. It does. It just does.
• 41:53
  I think it works. It doesn't work well because,
• 41:55
  like, the... It's a new story or there's anything
• 41:58
  we haven't seen before it the two of them just
• 42:01
  make it. Yes, like sing Yeah, and it's remarkable
• 42:06
  and it is and even watching him just run or walk
• 42:10
  around and smoke and there's a lot of smoking
• 42:12
  a lot of and seeing kind of what he does, the
• 42:16
  scenes with Ted Danson, it's just really perfectly
• 42:20
  shot film noir in this more modern way. Yes.
• 42:24
  Look, Wild Things and Body Heat are the same
• 42:27
  DNA. They are. They are. And really we should
• 42:29
  have thrown... Except there's not a threesome
• 42:31
  in Body Heat. And there's not... full frontal
• 42:34
  in body heat. Although there is a description
• 42:38
  of a penis. Because when you remember the knees
• 42:41
  sort of walks in on it. Right, the knees does.
• 42:44
  But look, another film I love. And again, there's
• 42:49
  a more gorgeous man. It's just the two of them
• 42:53
  together. It's just so electric. And I really
• 42:56
  do. I mean, I think, I mean, obviously I was
• 42:58
  not an adult when it came out, but I also think
• 43:00
  it would have been really interesting, right?
• 43:01
  To be someone in 1981 and to say, oh, a director
• 43:06
  is doing a full on film noir, right? But again,
• 43:10
  but updated in... Not updated, but then also
• 43:13
  updated in a way that is using the sexuality.
• 43:15
  The sexuality, but again, in something like double
• 43:18
  identity. You know they've done it, but you are
• 43:20
  never gonna see it in a million years. And here
• 43:23
  it's like, yeah, we're gonna show it. In your
• 43:24
  face. But it makes sense. So we have, in a sense,
• 43:30
  not quite obsession, but definitely notions of
• 43:32
  sort of power. Maddie holds the power. She is,
• 43:35
  again, sort of driving the entire situation.
• 43:37
  Great deal of sexual chemistry, sexual electricity.
• 43:40
  And that probably is a nice segue to nine and
• 43:43
  a half weeks, which I had not watched in... I've
• 43:47
  probably seen it like 10 times, but I had not
• 43:49
  watched it in years and years. I have not watched
• 43:51
  it in years. I've also seen it multiple times,
• 43:54
  but... Not very recently. And I will say in some
• 43:58
  ways it was sort of surprising to me because
• 44:00
  not only did I not remember parts of it, but
• 44:04
  the dynamics between the two of them gave me
• 44:07
  a different feeling than maybe previous times
• 44:11
  that I have watched it in a sort of 2026 moment.
• 44:15
  Okay. Okay. And let's hear more of that. Okay.
• 44:18
  So nine and a half weeks. For those of you who
• 44:21
  have not seen it, stars Kim Basinger and Mickey
• 44:24
  Rohr. Still both beautiful, both delicious. Super
• 44:27
  gorgeous. Gorgeous. Anyway, she is an art gallery
• 44:32
  dealer. He is some sort of financial stock guy.
• 44:37
  Who knows? Extremely wealthy. Extremely wealthy.
• 44:41
  And they meet randomly and they lock eyes and
• 44:46
  he... kind of introduces her into this sexual
• 44:52
  journey. Dom sub. BDSM. Sort of. Quiet little
• 44:57
  soft, soft dom. Soft dom. It seemed more dom
• 45:03
  in the 80s, let's put it that way. It doesn't
• 45:06
  seem as dom now. It does not. It more feels,
• 45:10
  with the exception of the later parts of the
• 45:13
  film, just like a regular old And it's interesting
• 45:20
  because Mickey Rourke is, of course, supposed
• 45:23
  to be very mysterious and controlling. And he
• 45:26
  wants to dress her and he wants to feed her and
• 45:29
  take care of her. And he doesn't want to see
• 45:32
  her during the day. The nights are for them.
• 45:36
  And she goes along with it and she gets pretty
• 45:39
  into it because I guess she had been married
• 45:42
  before she's divorced. Uh, this is a new kind
• 45:45
  of sexual awakening for her, although she also,
• 45:50
  you know, who knows if she's had these kinds
• 45:52
  of sexual experiences before. They're not doing
• 45:56
  anything that is, I don't know, like completely,
• 46:00
  um, again, like off the charts, but - And she
• 46:05
  does, and she does not respond well. No. The
• 46:08
  one time there's something that is arguably Edgy
• 46:11
  when he hires a prostitute right right basically
• 46:14
  to start doing things with her while she is blindfolded
• 46:17
  And it's a total surprise to her right she basically
• 46:20
  is like she freaks out and runs out of the room
• 46:22
  right right so she she is not up for Anything
• 46:26
  besides the two of them having sex straight -up
• 46:30
  monogamy maybe maybe with a blindfold Maybe with
• 46:34
  getting whipped Yeah, getting whipped. They like
• 46:36
  to do it outside a lot. They do. In the rain.
• 46:39
  There's a lot of rain. They're also turned on
• 46:40
  by like, I mean the sort of drag scene is interesting
• 46:44
  and she says to him at one point, I wonder what
• 46:47
  it would be like to be a man and so he gets her
• 46:49
  like a mustache and she dresses up. There's a
• 46:51
  lot of dressing of her. There is. And a lot of
• 46:54
  feeding of her. Yes. and so in some ways i mean
• 46:57
  one of the things that seems strange to me about
• 46:59
  it is that it really is we have the scene where
• 47:02
  he wants her to crawl across the right right
• 47:04
  and so we do have these kind of like i mean maybe
• 47:07
  i just don't know enough about the scene uh that's
• 47:09
  true but but you do have this weird juxtaposition
• 47:13
  of the i'm going to treat you like i am your
• 47:16
  dom and you're my sub but then all the rest of
• 47:19
  the time, I'm going to be like, bathing you and
• 47:22
  making you eggs for breakfast and combing your
• 47:25
  hair. You're a princess. You're a princess. And
• 47:27
  she even says this, right? Did you take care
• 47:29
  of the others the way that you take care of me?
• 47:30
  Right. And so I'm kind of like, well, OK, I'm
• 47:32
  not really sure. I know. I just don't understand
• 47:34
  the community between these identities. Right.
• 47:37
  But we do have, then, great chemistry between.
• 47:41
  Absolutely. And they're both beautiful. And one
• 47:45
  of the things, of course, you and I talked about
• 47:46
  before the pod, is that we really do have these
• 47:49
  like non -Gen X sort of 80s goddesses, right?
• 47:53
  Kim Basinger and Kathleen Turner and Michelle
• 47:55
  Pfeiffer. And we haven't really watched anything
• 47:57
  with Michelle Pfeiffer so far. We need to. But
• 47:59
  these women who... Again, not Gen X, right? Older,
• 48:02
  you know, late 60s, early 70s, now. But just
• 48:06
  these absolutely natural beauties. So sexy, right?
• 48:11
  So just absolutely electric. And terrific actresses,
• 48:14
  all of them. And I really feel, you know, thinking
• 48:16
  about, we don't have anyone like that. Now or
• 48:21
  so many or so many of them right it really was
• 48:23
  this kind of hot because even I mean Glenn Close
• 48:26
  had her kind of moment of being that person right
• 48:28
  but then Glenn Close you know sort of didn't
• 48:30
  I mean she had a very different kind of career
• 48:31
  I think yes and so that's I really that's something
• 48:34
  that I feel is so lacking. in terms of film.
• 48:38
  Like, who would that even be? I mean, Amy Adams
• 48:40
  isn't someone like that, right? No, no. I mean,
• 48:42
  again, Margot Robbie is the closest, again, physically.
• 48:46
  I'm not saying in the role she's played, but
• 48:49
  she does have that incredible beauty and she's
• 48:52
  been in a lot of things, but certainly not in
• 48:54
  the same way that Kim Basinger or Michelle Pfeiffer
• 48:58
  or... Kathleen Turner happened. And again, I'm
• 49:03
  going back to John and Carol. Daryl Hannah also
• 49:07
  was in a lot of things. Yeah, that's a good point.
• 49:10
  Like Wall Street. Wall Street, of course, Splash,
• 49:13
  and some other things where she's definitely
• 49:16
  the blonde bombshell. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
• 49:20
  Yeah, that's a good thing to raise. I mean, I
• 49:22
  think one of the things that was, I agree with
• 49:26
  you in that my overwhelming feeling watching
• 49:29
  nine and a half weeks again was boredom. Yes.
• 49:32
  I was genuinely bored by it. I wouldn't say I
• 49:36
  was bored but it was vanilla to me and I was
• 49:40
  just sort of like I remember this being so hot
• 49:43
  and so kinky and like edgy and I was just sort
• 49:46
  of like okay like you know they're just having
• 49:49
  sex and that's it and there's and also like some
• 49:54
  of the things he says to her when he's like,
• 49:56
  you know, something bad could happen to you right
• 49:58
  now. And someone could come into this house and
• 50:00
  she's like, and she's like, okay, I'm leaving.
• 50:02
  He's like, okay, bye. There's nothing. There's
• 50:05
  nothing. I mean, even if you compare it to, and
• 50:08
  again, you might cringe at this comparison, but
• 50:11
  the Fifty Shades of Grey, which in some ways
• 50:14
  is similar because they do have this very formal
• 50:17
  arrangement. I mean, the contract, all that.
• 50:19
  And he does princess her. during the day. That's
• 50:23
  true. And dress her and then when it's time to
• 50:27
  be Damsa, it's time to be Damsa. And he's very,
• 50:30
  very protective of her. And so it's similar in
• 50:34
  those ways, but it's also silly and the sex that
• 50:40
  happens between them is so silly. I'm going to
• 50:43
  whip you with a feather. Literally laughable.
• 50:44
  I'm going to lip you with a feather. I'm going
• 50:47
  to handcuff you and then take the handcuffs off
• 50:49
  like five seconds later. safe word for like,
• 50:53
  I don't know what I'm doing. It is laughable,
• 50:56
  but it does have a similar dynamic in terms of
• 50:59
  being both caretaker and Dom at the same time.
• 51:03
  Now Mickey Rourke, interestingly, I mean, we
• 51:06
  don't know, but I don't think he wants to like
• 51:09
  marry Kim Basinger or like keep her around forever.
• 51:12
  Although, of course, this is a big part of the
• 51:14
  end, right? His big argument that, in fact, he
• 51:16
  has fallen madly in love with her and he wants
• 51:19
  her to stay. you know, who knows? Of course,
• 51:23
  this was based on a novel of a woman's real relationship
• 51:27
  where she ended up being institutionalized because
• 51:29
  the guy literally drove her insane from all of
• 51:31
  the abuse. And obviously in this case, it's not
• 51:33
  depicted as an abusive relationship at all. But
• 51:37
  we do, right, we have this sort of moment at
• 51:38
  the end where he is trying to humanize himself
• 51:41
  by saying he is supporting his parents and all
• 51:43
  this other great stuff. And so he does say that
• 51:45
  he loves her at the end, right, who knows? And
• 51:49
  that's the other thing is that it's not really
• 51:50
  clear in the film, and I think it made so much
• 51:53
  sense to me when I saw this in high school, right,
• 51:55
  but now I'm kind of like, why are you breaking
• 51:57
  up with him again? You know, she's kind of like,
• 51:59
  oh, well, it's just going too far. And it was
• 52:01
  like, well, okay, I can understand the whole,
• 52:03
  like, you know, you're kind of surprised by the
• 52:04
  prostitute thing. And that definitely needed
• 52:07
  a conversation, right, and consent beforehand.
• 52:11
  To me, and of course, we have this kind of moment
• 52:13
  where this might be the last time we see classic
• 52:16
  Times Square in a film, right? As like a pornhub
• 52:19
  of Times Square. No, when she goes down and she
• 52:22
  sees the couple having sex, and then she like
• 52:24
  makes out with a guy who looks like her ex -husband.
• 52:26
  With a random guy, and she's like, okay, I've
• 52:30
  gone too far. But I also read that, read, not
• 52:35
  literally, but... That the artist when she connects
• 52:39
  with him. Yeah, you like yeah, okay this artist
• 52:42
  who you know other people kind of can't connect
• 52:45
  to and I get him and he understands humanity
• 52:49
  and I'm like losing myself I'm losing my humanity
• 52:51
  and I don't want to lose myself. And so I'm not
• 52:55
  saying that we directly have that exposition
• 52:58
  in the film. But that's what I read was like,
• 53:01
  if she continues to be with Mickey Rourke, then
• 53:03
  she's going to like lose herself to his world.
• 53:06
  But you're like, at this point, it's like, right.
• 53:08
  At this point, he's kind of, he's hired a sex
• 53:11
  worker to have sex with you and him. And you're
• 53:15
  uncomfortable with that. And sure, y 'all should
• 53:17
  have talked about that. But that's not necessarily
• 53:21
  like him telling her to like walk on hot coals
• 53:23
  or something like that. And of course the other,
• 53:26
  and she really does, right? She gets angry when
• 53:30
  Mickey Rourke's character, John, starts making
• 53:33
  out with a prostitute, right? And she reacts
• 53:35
  in this kind of classic like, I'm gonna beat
• 53:37
  the crap out of you, you know? Hands up, you're
• 53:38
  cheating on me. And so... in that sense it does
• 53:42
  become very sort of conventional and I do think
• 53:46
  that now it is hard to understand which part
• 53:50
  and of course we do have the like oh well I feel
• 53:52
  like I'm hypnotized right I can't pay attention
• 53:54
  to anything anymore I'm kind of lost in this
• 53:56
  obsession and this obsessive love and this obsessive
• 53:58
  sexual relationship um but it really doesn't
• 54:02
  it doesn't track and I and I agree with you all
• 54:05
  of these things now to interrupt myself Adrian,
• 54:09
  it's so Adrian Lynn DNA, right? The sort of the
• 54:12
  natural light, right? Again, she looks incredible.
• 54:16
  It's another film, we've talked about this before,
• 54:17
  it's another film where the 80s clothes don't
• 54:20
  look dated at all, right? Everybody looks, I
• 54:23
  mean, she looks... She does and the interesting
• 54:26
  thing about her outfit and it's you know You
• 54:29
  want this conscious to the director wants this
• 54:31
  contrast between the office he picks and then
• 54:33
  her own This is her own kind of natural more
• 54:35
  like a Donna Donna Karen exactly which isn't
• 54:38
  shoulder pads, but it is those long flowy And
• 54:43
  lots of shawls and sweaters thrown over the shoulders
• 54:48
  and things like that and like the sweater dress.
• 54:50
  Yes As opposed to the super tailored tight skirt.
• 54:54
  The Armani situation. And she also liked that
• 54:59
  whole art gallery world. Like she's very much
• 55:01
  dressing that part. You know who she's also dressing
• 55:04
  like? She's dressing like Anne Archer in Fatal
• 55:07
  Attraction. She is. I agree with that. It kind
• 55:10
  of dressed up. Yes. A sort of big button -down
• 55:13
  shirt, like the looser fits. Right. Yes. Like
• 55:16
  the big chunky sweaters. Absolutely. Over the
• 55:19
  silk shirts. Yes. Completely see that. And of
• 55:21
  course she's wearing... She's wearing like tank
• 55:23
  tops all the time, which is so funny. She's wearing
• 55:25
  these camisole, well they're slips, but they're,
• 55:28
  yes. But I just always think, right, because
• 55:29
  there was that sort of moment in the 1980s when
• 55:31
  all of a sudden you saw those like Calvin Klein
• 55:33
  tank tops, right, and the Calvin Klein underwear.
• 55:36
  And that very much reads that way to me. And
• 55:38
  again, someone else where, you know, we're seeing
• 55:40
  sort of this woman kind of without a bra, right,
• 55:43
  and we're starting to see a different kind of
• 55:45
  body, right, with Kim Basinger, certainly Ben
• 55:47
  Kathleen Turner. Sure. But I don't, I mean, you're
• 55:50
  going to get really, I don't know. I don't know
• 55:52
  how you're going to react to this. I don't react
• 55:54
  to much. It was very different seeing it now.
• 55:57
  I'm like, okay, I now see, I think, I think that
• 56:04
  Sex and the City, again, took some of our nine
• 56:07
  and a half weeks DNA. And I think specifically
• 56:09
  about that scene where it's like. I don't want
• 56:12
  to meet your friends right basically like I just
• 56:15
  you know this is my time with you and I don't
• 56:17
  we need to know about that world while they're
• 56:19
  sitting around the table and I'm like wait a
• 56:20
  minute I'm like this is just like Carrie and
• 56:22
  Big having that exact same conversation at the
• 56:24
  dinner table or whatever and there was another
• 56:27
  scene where I was like wait a minute this also
• 56:29
  I mean obviously the whole like financier right
• 56:31
  the guy was like super wealthy and so I was like
• 56:35
  I don't know if it was Candice Bushnell I don't
• 56:38
  know if it was Darren Starr, I don't know if
• 56:40
  it was Michael Patrick King, but I'm like, I
• 56:42
  am definitely seeing. Somebody's a nine and a
• 56:45
  half weeks fan. Somebody is a nine and a half
• 56:46
  weeks fan. You know, and obviously, and obviously,
• 56:49
  I mean, one thing I think the film does do really
• 56:52
  well. is that, of course, we are seeing that
• 56:54
  kind of Lower East Side, sort of SoHo, kind of
• 56:58
  that New York City, which we don't see super
• 57:02
  often. We're not seeing the Upper West Side.
• 57:04
  We're not seeing the Upper East Side. And this
• 57:05
  is not when Harry met Sally in New York. It's
• 57:07
  not. Absolutely not. And it's very cool that
• 57:09
  you do... And the other interesting thing, which...
• 57:12
  You know, you made this point when we talked
• 57:15
  about when Harry met Celine, I think what's interesting
• 57:17
  here is you do get the grit here. You get people
• 57:19
  chasing them around. You get, of course, the...
• 57:23
  porn, porn hob, Times Square. Like the woman
• 57:28
  walking the dog, right? She's standing outside,
• 57:30
  she looks like hell, you know, with like the
• 57:31
  dog. You get the grit. And what's interesting
• 57:35
  too is that it comes from two people who are
• 57:37
  themselves quite well off. And especially him.
• 57:40
  But you're not seeing two people living, I don't
• 57:43
  know, in like a... I don't know. Help me out
• 57:48
  here. You're not seeing... Poor New Yorker. You're
• 57:51
  not seeing like, I'm living in some sort of like
• 57:53
  tiny, although she does have a roommate, right?
• 57:54
  Her coworker, Margaret Witton's character is,
• 57:57
  but they have a beautiful apartment, right? They
• 57:59
  do. They have a two -bedroom beautiful apartment.
• 58:00
  They do. And by the way, I think watching it
• 58:03
  as an adult, probably the thing I reacted the
• 58:05
  most against is I'm like, you're leaving the
• 58:08
  refrigerator door open and you're wasting all
• 58:10
  that food. Which was like, I'm not an adult.
• 58:13
  I was just sort of like, what if she doesn't
• 58:16
  like this food? Yeah. Oh, but that's a point.
• 58:20
  That's the point. I mean, obviously, you know,
• 58:22
  she has to have everything. She has to eat. Yes,
• 58:24
  like with the peppers, right? He makes her eat
• 58:26
  hot peppers. I don't know. I mean, granted, that's
• 58:29
  like, by as far as the, you know, abuse goes.
• 58:31
  Maybe I just, maybe because he fed her so much
• 58:36
  in the movie that it kind of just all collapsed
• 58:40
  for me. Yes. No, it's just like... There's of
• 58:42
  course the scene where he feeds her all the stuff,
• 58:44
  you know, by the refrigerator. But then he continues
• 58:48
  to feed her in other scenes, right? So I'm like,
• 58:52
  OK, I get it. You like to feed her. The other
• 58:56
  thing, if we're going to hair, her hair and her
• 58:59
  face drove me a little crazy. Why? I just want
• 59:02
  to put a headband on her because there were so
• 59:05
  many scenes where her hair is just hanging in
• 59:08
  her eyes. And of course, it's wet most of the
• 59:11
  time. Yes, because there's so much. There's a
• 59:13
  lot of wet. There's a lot of rain, showers, baths.
• 59:17
  There's a lot of wet. Yes. And I guess at the
• 59:20
  core of it... I now wonder, like, what's the
• 59:24
  tension? Like, is the tension, are they gonna
• 59:26
  stay together? Or is the tension, like, is she
• 59:29
  going to continue with this dangerous man? And
• 59:32
  then you go back to the Heathcliff example, right?
• 59:35
  Who, in the book, is a dangerous man. Is a dangerous
• 59:38
  man. Right. This man is not a dangerous man.
• 59:40
  This man is a man, you know, with certain sexual
• 59:43
  fantasies, and that's about it. And who crosses
• 59:46
  lines, but lines that are not the most ridiculous
• 59:50
  lines to be crossed in a sense. And also who
• 59:52
  appreciates consent. Who appreciates consent.
• 59:55
  Except in that prostitute moment. Right. Except
• 59:58
  in the prostitute moment. Right. Except in the
• 59:59
  prostitute moment. This is the moment where,
• 1:00:02
  yes. Right. Right. No consent. No consent. Right.
• 1:00:04
  Right. And obviously one of the other things
• 1:00:06
  I think that complicates this is that so many,
• 1:00:08
  like we have this montage, right, where she's...
• 1:00:11
  angry at him, right? She's hitting him. They
• 1:00:14
  obviously have these big fights. Right. And so
• 1:00:16
  it's not like she's some sort of like wilting
• 1:00:18
  violence. No. She's kind of like, I'm afraid
• 1:00:20
  of you. You know, there's very much this component
• 1:00:22
  of they just have this very sort of visceral,
• 1:00:25
  dramatic, almost violent relationship on its
• 1:00:27
  own, right? Separate from the whole kind of S
• 1:00:30
  &M sex games or whatever. Sure. But again, even
• 1:00:33
  the S &M sex games, I'm just like, I just don't
• 1:00:35
  know if I'm there for that. I know. I mean, the
• 1:00:38
  blindfold. And that's the other thing is like,
• 1:00:39
  you know, he puts a blindfold on her the first
• 1:00:41
  time she's like, oh, it's kind of like, hey,
• 1:00:43
  just kind of wearing a blindfold. Right. And
• 1:00:45
  even in the hotel room, before we know that the
• 1:00:47
  prostitute and all that's gonna happen, it's
• 1:00:49
  like, oh, did you do the thing I asked you to
• 1:00:52
  do? Yeah. Put a blindfold on? Again, we don't
• 1:00:54
  know what's gonna come. And of course, what does
• 1:00:56
  come is is not what you expected. It's just a
• 1:00:59
  blindfolding in itself. Come on. Yes. But you
• 1:01:01
  know what's so funny, and I hadn't thought about
• 1:01:02
  this before right now, is of course that hotel
• 1:01:05
  room scene, which is kind of perching on the
• 1:01:06
  end of the bed. That, of course, is giving us
• 1:01:09
  baby girl vibes, right? Where we have a much
• 1:01:11
  more sort of like, you know, the whole drink
• 1:01:12
  the milk, even though they're sort of like laughing
• 1:01:14
  at it, right? In baby girl. Right. But yeah,
• 1:01:18
  we should have thought about that, our nine and
• 1:01:19
  a half weeks in baby girl DNA. But, okay, but
• 1:01:22
  here's one thing, right? So all three of our
• 1:01:24
  films, needless to say, nobody ends up together.
• 1:01:27
  These are all sort of... I don't want to say
• 1:01:30
  failed relationships, because it's not clear
• 1:01:32
  there's really an end game. Well, when someone's
• 1:01:34
  dead, it's over. I can't believe that Cathy died.
• 1:01:38
  So we have basically, obviously, William Hurt
• 1:01:41
  ends up in jail. We're not spoiling it for anyone.
• 1:01:45
  Maddie herself seems to have a kind of happy
• 1:01:47
  ending, but again, a relationship that is no
• 1:01:49
  longer existing. And we end nine and a half weeks
• 1:01:52
  on... I don't know. It's not really depressing.
• 1:01:55
  I don't find it to be very empowering. No, no.
• 1:01:58
  You don't sort of leave that film and say, oh,
• 1:02:00
  thank God you dumped that guy. No, it's just
• 1:02:02
  kind of like, oh, now I will say that Body Heat
• 1:02:05
  has a trading places ending. Yes, it does. It
• 1:02:11
  does. Yes. On the beach. On the beach. Looking
• 1:02:14
  good. It's so funny, I totally forgot about that.
• 1:02:21
  So, no, none of them have the couples together.
• 1:02:24
  And in each of them, you don't really want the
• 1:02:28
  couples to be together. Correct. And I think
• 1:02:33
  that they all... hold up to a certain extent.
• 1:02:38
  And again, nine and a half weeks to me was the
• 1:02:40
  most surprising because I remember loving Body
• 1:02:43
  Heat and being obsessed with Body Heat. And I
• 1:02:45
  still am obsessed with Body Heat. Nine and a
• 1:02:48
  half weeks, I don't need to watch it again. No,
• 1:02:50
  correct. I agree. And by the way, I wasn't going
• 1:02:52
  to see it again anyway. But again, if it comes
• 1:02:55
  on cable, I'll probably watch it again. Who are
• 1:02:57
  we kidding? Who are we kidding? I'll watch like
• 1:03:01
  five minutes of it again. Right. I'll watch that
• 1:03:03
  one. The right five minutes. Right. Right. Exactly.
• 1:03:05
  But they're they are films that at the time also
• 1:03:09
  in a nine and a half weeks, you know, it's like
• 1:03:11
  it's like X rated crazy thing. And the producer
• 1:03:16
  who did Zalman King was known for doing all these
• 1:03:18
  like softcore porn stuff. Right. Right. And it's
• 1:03:20
  just like, OK, get it. But here's, I mean, maybe
• 1:03:22
  the last thing I would say is that, so we have,
• 1:03:25
  you know, obviously it's kind of debatable if,
• 1:03:27
  you know, whatever kind of quote unquote love
• 1:03:29
  we have in any of these films. You know, obviously
• 1:03:31
  we have sex, we have lots of sex. And certainly
• 1:03:33
  Wuthering Heights, we're supposed to think that
• 1:03:34
  that sex is derived from this incredible passion,
• 1:03:37
  right? And the soul maintenance stuff. Not really
• 1:03:39
  clear in the other two, where it seems to just
• 1:03:42
  be really instrumental in body heat. But of course,
• 1:03:46
  Nine Half Weeks has no plot. Right. It has no
• 1:03:48
  plot. No plot. But what's so fascinating, again,
• 1:03:50
  like, so Fatal Traction and Unfaithful, two other
• 1:03:53
  films, right, by Adrian, like, fantastic plots.
• 1:03:56
  Fantastic. Fantastic. Clear, exciting, interesting
• 1:03:58
  plots, right? So you get all the, like, yeah,
• 1:04:01
  sex stuff. You get all the sex. But you also
• 1:04:02
  get this incredibly strong, compelling story.
• 1:04:05
  And fantastic characters. Fantastic characters.
• 1:04:07
  And this is just kind of like, I mean, we know
• 1:04:09
  nothing about, and of course, it's part of the
• 1:04:11
  point that we know nothing about Mickey Rourke,
• 1:04:13
  right? But it's just like, there's almost no,
• 1:04:15
  like, dialogue in this no right but we really
• 1:04:18
  also know nothing about convincing her except
• 1:04:20
  yeah she was married before married before she
• 1:04:22
  has his friend she lives a roommate yeah we know
• 1:04:25
  we know that she yeah And you know, what's kind
• 1:04:29
  of crazy to me, and this is where it just gets
• 1:04:32
  funny, when he buys her that suit and she says,
• 1:04:35
  aren't you gonna ask me if I like it? And he's
• 1:04:36
  like, no. I'm like, he's buying her this gorgeous
• 1:04:39
  tailored suit. And you look incredible in it.
• 1:04:42
  What is the problem? Just let it go. Just buy
• 1:04:44
  it. And I don't know, when she steals the necklace,
• 1:04:47
  I'm like, come on. See, and that's just stupid
• 1:04:49
  to me. There's no point. It is stupid. It's stupid.
• 1:04:53
  And it's more just supposed to be like, oh, this
• 1:04:55
  life is so dangerous. It's so dangerous. Because
• 1:04:57
  you stole a necklace from Bloomingdale's that
• 1:04:59
  they didn't even keep in a case. Yeah, like shopped
• 1:05:03
  petty theft. But of course we should, actually
• 1:05:05
  this will be the last thing I say, we should
• 1:05:07
  remember that one of the things that was so absolutely
• 1:05:10
  kind of daring about the film back in the 80s
• 1:05:12
  was the whole masturbation scene. And that's
• 1:05:14
  something else, and you watch it now and you're
• 1:05:16
  kind of like, well... I'm not really seeing anything.
• 1:05:18
  So, I mean, I think that's a really cool scene.
• 1:05:20
  I mean, that Eurythmics song is fantastic, right?
• 1:05:23
  It just looks so evocative and, you know, cool.
• 1:05:26
  But it's like, I mean, but that's not like...
• 1:05:28
  But we go back to thinking about, again, our
• 1:05:30
  other pod movie with Natalie Portman, Black Swan.
• 1:05:34
  That masturbation scene, which in a lot of ways
• 1:05:37
  is much more provocative. I agree. Because of
• 1:05:39
  the context, because of the kind of sexual awakening,
• 1:05:42
  because of it's not just like, oh, like I'm just
• 1:05:45
  going to do this and I'm like into Mickey Rourke
• 1:05:47
  and I'm going to think about him. This, again,
• 1:05:50
  it's an interesting comparison to think about
• 1:05:52
  a film that's a little bit later that does have
• 1:05:56
  this, I think, much more compelling storytelling
• 1:05:58
  in that scene. I agree. No, that's a good point.
• 1:06:02
  And I'll go again. Kim Basinger looks fantastic
• 1:06:05
  and that's it. Say it again. Beautiful. Beautiful
• 1:06:06
  woman. She always looks fantastic. She always
• 1:06:08
  looks fantastic. Now let me throw Demi Moore
• 1:06:11
  into the mix for a second. Oh, okay. Because
• 1:06:13
  she is a peer of these people. Yeah. But again,
• 1:06:17
  she just, she reads as Gen X just because she
• 1:06:19
  was in St. Elmo's fire. Right. I know. And Kim
• 1:06:23
  Basinger would never be in St. Elmo's Fire. No,
• 1:06:25
  but they were, but Kim Basinger wore that off
• 1:06:29
  -the -shoulder horrible dress to, I guess, the
• 1:06:32
  Oscars that was like a jetter hair to one side
• 1:06:35
  and it was crimped. And it was, it was maybe
• 1:06:38
  the same Oscars where Demi Moore wore the biker
• 1:06:40
  shorts. Okay, I don't remember that. But that
• 1:06:42
  must have been the LA Confidential Oscars when
• 1:06:45
  Kim Basinger was nominated. Maybe, maybe. Because
• 1:06:47
  of course she was doing the whole, like, that's
• 1:06:49
  the whole thing in LA Confidential, right, that
• 1:06:50
  she's been, she's had plastic surgery to look
• 1:06:52
  like Veronica Leigh, right, with the whole crimp
• 1:06:54
  tape. Right. So I think that was those. But she
• 1:06:57
  was also in the first Batman. Yes, Vicki Vale.
• 1:07:00
  She was Vicki Vale. The Jack Nicholson Batman.
• 1:07:03
  Yeah, I forgot about that. And again, that whole
• 1:07:06
  Veronica Lake look just makes a lot of sense
• 1:07:11
  for her. But I do put Demi Moore in with them
• 1:07:13
  for whatever reason because they were coming
• 1:07:16
  out around the same time and playing different
• 1:07:19
  kinds of roles, of course. Well, and of course,
• 1:07:21
  Demi Moore was then able to basically be a huge
• 1:07:23
  star throughout the 90s, which no other sort
• 1:07:25
  of quote unquote generation X actress was able
• 1:07:28
  to do. But that those women did, right? Those
• 1:07:30
  women did. Sure, sure. Yeah, so I hear you. I
• 1:07:32
  understand what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. All
• 1:07:35
  right. OK. Well, with that, do you have anything
• 1:07:39
  that you want to tell our listeners before we
• 1:07:41
  wrap it up? Just that they should read Wuthering
• 1:07:46
  Heights. OK. And watch. double indemnity. Okay,
• 1:07:50
  and I am going to say, because I'm going to commit
• 1:07:53
  to this podcast in a week or two, not a lot,
• 1:07:57
  that we will have Oscar talk. We will. That is
• 1:08:00
  how we started. So even if we don't keep it up
• 1:08:03
  as faithfully as we should, we do need to have
• 1:08:05
  an Oscar postmortem because that is how this
• 1:08:07
  podcast started. And you know, my fingers are
• 1:08:10
  crossed that we are going to have a better Oscars
• 1:08:12
  year than we did last year with Enora. It can
• 1:08:14
  only get up and go only better for me. And here's
• 1:08:17
  the thing, right, and I don't mean to go on for
• 1:08:18
  too long, but if either sinners or one battle
• 1:08:23
  wins, it will be better than an aura. This is
• 1:08:26
  true. So I feel like we're gonna have a win no
• 1:08:29
  matter what. Hopefully we'll have some good looks.
• 1:08:32
  Hopefully we will have some people with faces
• 1:08:34
  that are recognizable. I don't know, after the
• 1:08:37
  echo awards. And who stay off the ozempic for
• 1:08:40
  a little bit. Let's have some natural Kathleen
• 1:08:45
  Turner style bodies. I just want to go back.
• 1:08:47
  Drink to that. I'll drink to that girl. Absolutely.
• 1:08:49
  Alright, so until next time. Until next time.
• 1:08:52
  Harpies out. Harpies out.