Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #119: Tony Hansen’s Mature Buck Strategies For Heavily Hunted Areas

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #119: Tony Hansen’s Mature Buck Strategies For Heavily Hunted Areas · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. In this episode number one hundred
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and nineteen, Tay in the show, I'm joined my outdoor
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: writer Tony Hanson, and we're getting into the details of
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: how he approaches the challenge of bow hunting mature bucks
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: in areas of heavy hunting pressure. All Right, welcome to
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sitka Gear.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: And as I just mentioned today, I'm joined by my
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: friend Tony Hanson. And Tony is the guy imagine many
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: of you are familiar with. He's been a mainstain in
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the white tailed media world for a long time now,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: having been involved with Outdoor Life, Michigan's mucc magazine, Real Trees, website,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: his web show Antler Geeks, even Midwest white Tail way
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: back in the day. And he's involved in some interesting
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: new things too that I'll let him share with you
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: in a minute. But the point is, Tony is a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: guy who knows how to talk about white tails and
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: do it in a way that I think people can
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: learn from and understand, and of course he also knows
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: how to kill white tails too, especially in states like
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: where he and I both live, Michigan, where hunting pressure
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: is about as bad as it gets. So that said,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: in a minute here we're going to dive into detail
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: on a whole slew of different topics related to this
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: one specific challenge bo hunting mature bucks in the toughest
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: and heaviest hunted areas of the country, and I think
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: you're all going to be able to take something away
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: from this conversation. That's said. Before we get to that,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: we need to thank our partners at Sick of Gear
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: for their long running support of this podcast, and continue
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: with our brief break from our Sick Story segment, I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: want to give you another quick reminder about Sitka's Diverge
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: photo contest that launched earlier this month, that being September. Now.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: For this contest, sick is looking for the most unique
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: raw emotion conveying an uncommon hunting images you can put together,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and they'll be rewarding the best phototakers with some incredible
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: prizes including Sick of Gear, hats, clothing, go pros, the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: opportunity of your photos published in print and even an
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: all expenses paid trip to one of my favorite places
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: in the world, Bozeman, Montana. So if you'd like to
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: learn more about the Diverge contest, or if you're ready
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: to submit your photos, visit sit gear dot com slash Diverge.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: And with all that said, let's get right into the
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: interview with Tony Hanson. All right with us on the
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: line now? Is Tony Hanson? Welcome to show. Tony, Hey,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: how's it going pretty good? Hi? I'm anxiously counting down
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: the next couple of days until I actually start my
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: white tail season. But how about you? When do you
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: get kicked off? Um? I haven't decided officially yet. I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: have a place in Ohio that I can hunt, and uh,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I'm Kennedy's really planning to goodwn there for that opening weekend.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: But I gotta kind of wait and see what the
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: trail cameras are telling me and if it's uh, if
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: it's worth headed down there, or if I need to
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: wait a little while. Yeah, I I always tell myself,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I want to wait a little bit longer to start
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: down there in Ohio, But it's it's tough not to
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: want to get down there. Given the fact that, as
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a little more to be excited about
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: sometimes compared to what way of here at home in Michigan.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's for sure. So before we before we
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: really dive into this and what I want to talk
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: with you about, Tony in particular, was about some of
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: your experiences here in Michigan and other states like this.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: But I guess before we go down that road, could
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about your background. You've
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: done a lot of interesting things in the hunting world
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: over the last ten years or more probably, um, and
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: now you're you're still doing and graces. Can you just
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: kind of fill us in on what your background is
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: and what you're doing today. Yeah. Sure. UM. So I've
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: been in you know, the hunting media for quite a while,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: probably about twenty years or so, and I've done a
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: number of different things in that but most recently, you know,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I am an editor with Outdoor Life magazine. Um, just
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: started that quite recently. I've contributed to Outdoor Life for
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: probably eight or nine years, but um, it was just
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: brought on, you know, as an actual editor here recently.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm also a land specialist with white Tail Property.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So um, looking at helping people find the type of
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: ground you need to hunt here in Michigan to kill
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: those big beer. Easier said than done, isn't it. Yeah,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: it's easy to It's it's easy to define the ground.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: It's the hard part is figuring out that just because
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: you have great ground doesn't mean you're gonna have the
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: type of deer that you're looking for. There's a lot,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of steps involved in Michigan. Yeah, that's the truth.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: So just before we got in there to do this,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I was looking through some of our archives from Wired
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Hunt podcasts and I saw that Will Brantley was on
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the podcast earlier this year, and I got to thank
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: you and Will have had this strangely paralleled career with
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: you both working you know, with the Real Trees website
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: and Everythink That and contributing him with Hell and stream
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: you with Outdoor Life, and now you're both editors at
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: the two magazines. Who's who do you think is the
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: better deer hunter? You are? Will? Okay, so I'm a
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: better deer hunter. He's a better dear killer. So he Uh,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: he's from Kentucky, and if you know guys who are
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: from Kentucky, there's really nothing more that needs to be
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: said other than they like to shoot things. So um,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm probably a better deer hunter
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: just because I have to be um. But will Um
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: he's he's probably the best all around hunter that I've
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: ever encounter, and uh he and I are really good friends.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: He's always calling me his uh Yankee brother from another mother,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: and uh he he knows a whole lot about a
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: whole lot of stuff, but when it comes to deer
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: um he doesn't like to hold out very well. And
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: he's always getting mad at himself every year for getting
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: the atchy trigger finger and shooting something that looked big
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: at the time and then maybe he wasn't as big
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: as he wanted. But he can definitely hold his own
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: um hunting anything. So yeah, but it definitely seems like
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you both have interesting and unique perspectives on a lot
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: of things, but you're doing a lot of the same
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: things to have success. And that's that's something I've respected
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: about both of you, is that you're both great at
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: getting the job done, but almost just as importantly, you're
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: able to communicate about it in a way that your
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: everyday average people can understand and learn from. Uh so so,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I've said it before, but I've really enjoyed
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: your work. You're writing everything you've done for a long
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: time will too, So I'm excited to kind of try
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: to pick your brain apart because you share a lot
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: of interesting stuff in your articles, but lots of times
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in like the Nuance, and I found myself
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: reading something and I want to ask you a question,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: but I know you're busy. I don't want to bug you.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: So today kind of my my high level thought was
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: that we could dive into a few examples of how
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: you've had success hunting in states like you know, our
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: home state here in Michigan, and try to, you know,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: pass out exactly what you're doing differently than a lot
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: of people because you know, as you know just as
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: well as me, most people in areas like this struggle
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: to kill mature Box. Struggled even see mature Box. So
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: you know, those people that are able to do that consistently,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: that's something that is just so unique, and oftentimes people
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: are going about it in very different ways. There's usually
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: a few core different things that we kind of do consistently.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: But then everyone at least that I talked to you you
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: seems to have that unique angle on exactly how they
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: implement that. So well, that said, I remember a few
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: years back, Tony, the story of this buck you killed.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I think it was called Kickers, Correct me if I'm wrong,
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  Speaker 1: but back in two you killed really a a world
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  Speaker 1: class buck for this state in an area that is
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: really heavily pressured. If I remember right, I think I
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: saw that you killed that buck in an area where
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: they were like four or five different gun hunting shacks
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: surrounding you could see at one time. So yeah, if
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: that's not a pressured buck and pressure land, I don't
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: know what is. So I guess could you kick us
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: off by just telling us the story of that hunt
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: in that buck, and then from there we can kind
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: of dive into some specific tactics. Yeah. Sure. So the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: property that I killed that deer on is a hundred
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: and twenty acres and nine acres of that is tillable
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: crop lands, so you're dealing with thirty acres of cover. Um,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: it's in a normal section from Michigan. Other than it's
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: it's one mile wide, so it's a mile wide north south,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: it's two miles wide east west. So that's the only
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  Speaker 1: variation really from any other section in the state. UM,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: is that it's doesn't it doesn't have a road at
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that first mile, so it goes two miles. It's typical
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: southern Michigan farm ground. UM. You know, nobody else can
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: hunt the dred acres. I hunt except the landowner. UM,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't hunt very much. The other pieces are hunted,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: you know, as hard and actually harder over the years
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  Speaker 1: is they've kind of figured out that either they figured
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: out there's a good deer on the piece I'm hunting,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: or they figured out that I'm hunting it and they
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: want to get in there. So every year it's gotten
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: a little bit more pressured than previously. But they hunt
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: right on the property line. There's gun shacks on the
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: property line on three of four sides. The fourth side
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: is a road, so they can't have a gun shack there.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: But UM, I've hunted it one time on the opening
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: day of shotgun season, and UM I saw eight different
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: hunters that opening day. Um they were all four of
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: them were sitting within you know, I could see them
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: physically the entire time. The other four came after they
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: started shooting. UM, and we're like, quote unquote tracking deer.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Two of them were within ten yards of the property
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: line and had trim shooting lanes into the property line,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: so they were shooting onto the property, couldn't shoot any
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: other direction. So, UM, it's not a it's a special
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: place because of how I hunt it. But it's not
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: a special place. You know, it's not like it's a
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: thousand acres nobody can hunt. Um, it's no different than
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: any place else. The only difference is I have a
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: sanctuary on there that I don't go into. So I
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: first got permission to hunt the property probably six years ago,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: and the first thing I did was realized, Okay, there's
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: this really thick area. It's kind of a it's it's
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: like a march that's being reclaimed, is the way I
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: would you describe it. Sometimes it's pretty wet and boggy,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: but most of the time it's just kind of dry
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: with some mucky spots and there's tall grass and um,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: brushy scrubby trees in there. Well, he can't you can't
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: really hunt it because you can't get in it. So
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: that's just off limits. That's about probably ten acres and um,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: we never ever go in there, and that's where all
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the deer are, so when the neighbors pressure, all the
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: deer go in there. When they come on to where
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I can see them, they're coming out of there. If
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I spooky deer, it's going in there. So I just don't.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I know that's a sanctuary, and I don't hunt it.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: About the third year that I was shunning there, I
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: had a three year old buck that it was a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: pretty good eight pointer. I sort of wanted to shooting,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: but I didn't really care if I didn't, and um,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I ended up passing on him one time because it
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't a great shot. Had a bunch of truck camera
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: pictures of him. The next year I got photos of him.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: He started to throw some kickers off his G two.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: That's how he got a name kicker. And I hunted
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: him pretty hard and um actually missed him as a
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: four year old and just stupid hit a branch. He
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: came out at one in the afternoon, caught me off guard,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and I hit a branch and missed him. The next
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: year as a five year old. UM, I didn't have
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: any photos of him until mid October, and I actually
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: never had any photos of him anytime before mid October.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: He just didn't show up until then, and I never
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: actually saw him on the hoof that hunting season. So
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the following year, when he was six could have been seven,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: because I didn't really recognize him until he was what
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I thought was three, So he was either six or seven,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and I had a few photos of him. Um again,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: not until mid October and only at night, and it
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: was early November. I think it might have actually been
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: November one, but I don't remember the date exactly. I
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: had hunted a stay him. It overlooks the sanctuary. It's
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: an observation stand where I can get in there on
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the right wind and I can watch that sanctuary place.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And I hadn't seen kicker at all. And the guy
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: that was videoing with me, I told him, you know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: this is like the third year that I've been hunting
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: this deer, the second year. Seriously, I can't just keep
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: doing this because I'm not I'm not shooting any deer,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and maybe this deer is not killable because he never
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: shows up in any other place except you know, this
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: one little small area. We haven't seen him. If we
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: don't see him this morning here in the sanctuary, I'm
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: just gonna give up on him I'm gonna go hunting
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: some other deer, and we didn't see him. I got
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: to be about eleven in the morning. It's pretty windy,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: so I said, let's just climb down, head to the truck,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: grab something beat and go to this back section where
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I had a small food plot where there was a
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: lot of year around it, and I said, let's just
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: find another deer to hunt. So we walked in on
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a pass um. There's a lot of tall grass that
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you have to walk through, and I had drove my
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: full wheel are up and down to make a path,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: which is something I had not done before. But I
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: was I was thinking the way I was normally walking
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: into the stand. It was an easy way, but it
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: probably wasn't the right way because I was going through
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: too much of the stuff that I thought dear could
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: bet in or would cross my track. So we went
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: down this pool wheelerge trail and we climbed into the stand,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: and maybe twenty minutes later, um kicker got out of
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: his bed and walked right into us, directly down wind.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: The entire time, he wouldn't go on the food plot
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: because the wind wasn't you know, for him to get
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: in the food plot. The wind was wrong for him.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: He wanted the wind to be in his face the
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: whole time. So we're hunting the stand with the quote
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: unquote right wind for the food plot. But those big
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: ones they won't do that. He walked in down wind
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the entire time. Why he didn't smell us, I don't know.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And he got to about forty eight yards and and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I shot him, and that was that. Wow, there's about
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: eight different things you mentioned that story that I kind
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: of thought about. Okay, that was probably something that helped
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: to have success this time, And that was probably something.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: But I'm curious for you, what stands out for you
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: is like the big thing or two that actually resulted
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: it working out this time. Well, the first and most
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: important thing is that I knew where that deer lived
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: basically for three years, and the rutt with old like
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: truly mature dear, not three year olds, probably not four
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: year olds, but truly mature dear in pressured areas. Dirut
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: is exceptionally different than everybody thinks it is. So the
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: previous um when he was a four year old and
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I had missed him, that was around of October, so
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: he was coming out at midday looking for dose. The
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: first dough was to come into heat. Well after I
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: missed him. A day or two later, we saw that
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: deer every day for ten days, and he was on
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: a neighbor's piece, and he had six or seven does,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: and he was it was basically almost like last year.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It was read it by a house. He never left
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: ten days. And I think that's what these really whole maturity.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: They don't have a run like what most people think
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: they're gonna be out chasing does. They're not running around silly.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: They get the first coming to heat, they put her
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: into an area they feel safe and they keep her there,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: and other knows that come into that area they know
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: that the dominant. When they're ready to breathe, that's where
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: they go. So you have an exceptionally small window to
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: kill these really big deer. They're not out chasing does.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: They're not out running willingly stilly around like they do
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: where there's a lot of them in the pressure the
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: competition for dozes high. So the big chicky for me
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: was knowing that if I didn't see that between around
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the twenty eighth of October in the second of November,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I probably had no chanceletsoever to kill him because he
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: was going to lock down and not move, and I
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: didn't know where he would be. So the biggest key
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: was I started hunting a little bit sooner than I
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: normally would have in those sanctuary those really good, you know,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: kind of risky areas to hunt, and I got lucky
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and made the move. You know. That was the second
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: key was I came in on a path where I
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: didn't spook him out of his bed. If I had
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: walked our normal path, I absolutely would have jumped in
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: no question, because where he stood up out of his bed,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: it was within fifteen yards of where we'd normally walked,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and he knew that That's why he was betting there
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: because I think he had seen us do it before
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: or knew that that was an entrance route for people,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: and he was in a place where he he could
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: slip away if he didn't if anybody showed up. But
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: we went around him and got into that stand. So
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: knowing exactly how those big deer used the route was
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: a big key, and using a different entrance was a
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: big key. But the I mean the biggest key of
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: all is that deer was pressured everywhere except where I hunted,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: and I don't hunt early season. I mean, I I
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: can count on one hand the number of times I've
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: hunted that particular property before the October. I just don't
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: do it. There's no point in it because the big
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: deer aren't really up on their feet in daylight. There's
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: so many other deer that can spook you and mess
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: things up that it's just not worth it. The window
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to kill these deer is crazy small, and it sucks
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: because I'd love to go the whole month of October.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hunt them every day, but you just
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: can't do it because they react so quickly. Tanny Fresher, Yeah, Now,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: speaking of the window of opportunity for these types of deer,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: do you recall what the other conditions were on that day?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: A wind or weather? Was there anything else that helped
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: make sure that deer was up on his feet and
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: moving and during daily Yeah, I mean it was cold
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: and it was pretty pretty windy in the morning. I mean,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: that's what kind of drove me out of the observation
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: stand in the first place. I intended to sit there
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: until about one or two, but the wind was just
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: hitting us right in the face and it was cold wind,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: and um, I just got frustrated in cold and said
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: let's move because I hadn't seen him. But in a
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: lot of ways, I don't. I mean, obviously I like
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: it when we get a cold front, and I like
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: it when the conditions are good, but I don't think
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the weather had nearly as much impact on them as
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: people think. When those dos are getting ready to come in,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: they're going to run. Last year was a great example
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: because we had a pretty warm period there for that
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: first week in November, and I was seeing every book
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: that I knew was mature or close to it that
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I thought I would see during the rut. I mean,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I walked in at midday and it was like eighty
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: degrees and I saw all four of those deer. They
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: were all up getting ready, you know, kind of cruising
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: around because the first doors were starting to come in,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: and they didn't care that it was eighty degrees. They
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: were up doing what they do. You know, they might
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: they might be down earlier, but it's not the bucks
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: doing it. It's the doughs. I mean, the dos spend
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: more time bettered when it's hot, not the bucks. If
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the does are up, the bucks will be up. They
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: don't care what the weather is. They're going to do
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: what the does do. So, I mean the weather can
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: have some impact, but I don't think it's quite as
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: dramatic as people think, and I think we think of
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: it the wrong way. It's not you're not laying down.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: The bucks aren't laying down because they're hot. The doughs
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: are laying down because they're hot. You know, if you
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: find the doughs and get in their area, the bucks
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: will be there too. Yeah, that makes sense. Can you
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: elaborate a little bit on your point about how some
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: of these mature bucks operate differently during the rut in
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: areas like Michigan are really heavily pressured areas. Is there
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: is there anything different other than the fact that they're
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: just not chasing as much. Do you either timing different
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: or anything else? Yeah, I mean the timing is the
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: timing for the quote unquote kick is very is for me,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: is very different because they locked down um so much sooner.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: So in in a place like Iowa or Ohio where
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of mature bucks and you know, maybe
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: there's the dough to buck ratio is a little bit better,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: or maybe it's not. There's just more older bucks that
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: are going to battle for those doughs. They need to
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: move around and find those that they can get without
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: being bullied off by another buck. And some of your
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: three and four year old bucks that are sub dominant,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the ones that people end up shooting, well, they're they're
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: not going to get those. They got to really search
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: because there's enough truly dominant deer to keep them away
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: from those first early you know, cycling does in Michigan.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: There's no such thing that a truly mature buck is
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: going to get as many as wants, and nobody's gonna
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: challenge him in his primary He's learned, you know, after
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: four or five years, if he walks around, he gets
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: shot at, so he doesn't do it. He's got a
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: set number of places where he feels safe and he
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: won't go anywhere else. He doesn't need to because the
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: doughs are going to come to him because those safe
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: places where they feel safe too. So you got to
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: think about, you know, as as it gets into late October,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: these deer are not only you know, starting to feel
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: more ruddy, they felt a continual increase in human activity
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: in the woods since mid September and more guys sail.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Here comes the rut. You know, we're gonna hunt more. Well.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: The deer know that, so they start compressing that home range.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: They don't expand that home range during the rut. They
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: would if people weren't there, but because there's more people,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: when they leave their home range and they're like, oh,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I smell somebody, I gotta go back. You know, they're
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: always going to put survivals first, and and everybody knows
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: that because if you see a buck chasing the dough
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: and you spook him, does not run away, Yes he does.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Now he may run with the dough if she runs
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: his you know the same path. But if you're in
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: between the sucking the dough and you ste him, he's gone.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So it's not that they lose all sensibility. They don't.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Survival is still number one. So what they're gonna do
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: is they're gonna have smaller home ranges. They're gonna find
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: them first does because nobody's challenging them. When they get
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: those first does, they're going right into that sanctuary and
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: they're going to stay for a week. The lockdown here
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: is worse than in a lot of ways. It's worse
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: than any other state that I've hunted, because they simply
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: don't have to chase those. To your point, when I've
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: when I think back on all, you know, my my
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: years here, where I'm really been paying attention to things
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: in Michigan, I don't really see a whole lot of
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: you know, new bucks during the rut. You know, in
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: most areas you talk, you hear about these roamers that
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: show up, these new bonus bucks wherever in the rut,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: cruising from somewhere else. I never see that, at least
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: on my main Michigan properties. Is that something you're seeing
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to just a lack of that, Yeah, I don't. I
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: mean I don't see new bucks in general around and
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: see the place where I hunt, where I feel like
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I have my best chance at shooting older deer. I
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: don't have any bucks there right now. I don't have
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: any photos. I never do. It's it's around the fifteenth
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: of October that they show up, and that's because they're
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: getting kicked off of other places, and then they come
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: to where they know they've been safe before and by
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: around Halloween. You know, if I've done my trail cameras
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: correctly on scrapes and you know, spent some time. I
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: probably I probably know of the bucks that are there.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I've gotten pictures or I've seen them. Um, I don't
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: see any different ones almost ever. And late season, if
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you know, a bean field gets left, maybe I'll pick
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: up a buck. But even then, dear, I'm seeing after
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: gun season the bucks, they're the same ones I've seen
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: all wall. Um, so no, I don't. I don't have
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: you know, really new ones come in, maybe some yearlings,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: but I don't really pay attention enough to them to
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: know if they're new or not. Right right, So, So,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: given this kind of unique element to the rut here
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: in states like this, where there is this lack of chasing,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of greater kind of emphasis on the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: lockdown period, how do you typically hunt? Because it sounds
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: like when you're hunting kicker that was a little bit
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: different because you knew where the specific buck was better.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's how you always do it, But I guess
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: how do you approach the rut in that type of
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: situation from a hunting standpoint? I really, I really have to,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I really rely on the trail cameras and if I
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: don't have a picture of a mature year um before October,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna hunt there. And you know, last year
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: in Michigan, I just didn't hunt here. I had one
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: pretty old dear that was five years old, but he
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: hadn't grown anything for frantlers since age three. He was
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: bigger at age three than at age five. I actually
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: hunted uh the edge of the bean field whatever. The
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: first fifth or sixth of October were the first time
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I hunted, and there was a bunch of oaks dropping
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: acorns there and I felt like, you know, I had
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the right wind. It was a little we had a
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: cold front ice and I told myself every year I've
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: seen this gear, he's living in this part. If he's there,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: he's coming out tonight. And he did. And I passed
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: him at ten yards because he just he hadn't grown
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: anything antler wise, and he would just be a fantastic
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: deer for my son to shoot. So I let him go.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: He hunted him all both season, had a bunch of encounters,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: didn't shoot him, and then he ended up killing him
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: the muzzle letter season. But that was the only mature
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: deer that I had two Michigan Michigan hunt so I
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: pretty much just hunted dolls and went you know to
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: other places. I basically didn't hunt here. So if I
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: don't have a picture of a big you know and
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a big mature deer by the October, um, I just
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: don't hunt that place because I don't think they're gonna
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: show up now. If I do, then I'm gonna hunt
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: starting around and I'm gonna get into those thicker transition
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: area is fairly tight to where I think they're betting
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: and and be pretty aggressive until you know, either I
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: see them or shoot them or screw something up. But
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: by the fifth sh of November it gets awfully tough
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: on those really big ones because they pretty much get
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: those does and they're locked down pretty hard. Yeah. So
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: are you focusing sounds like you're focusing more on transition
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: bedding versus life funnels and pinch points at that time. Yeah.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, our funnels and pinch points in Michigan are
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: quite different than say Iowa, where you have a you know,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: a very obvious ditch that they can't get down or
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: don't want to get down. We don't have a lot
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: of terrain that you're won't readily cross, and sometimes you
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: can use cover like a fence row or something, but
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: sometimes there's free stands in those fence rows and they
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: won't use those. So I'm primarily focusing on where the
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: doze bed, where the thickest cover is that the dose
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: will be. That leads to where the bucks will wave up,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: So it's more of an edge than an actual funnel
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: or a pitch point. And then within that edge, you know,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I'll try to figure out the best place to kind
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: of squeeze them down as best I can. But you know,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: so many of our woodlots are squares, so there's not
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of funnels and pinch points in there. Yeah,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: you talked about the trail camera piece. How you're you're
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: really focusing on whether or not you've got I'm ature
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: buck on camera by that late October time frame. How
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: are you using trail cameras at that time specifically to
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: figure that out? Well, the key is and it's I
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: can only do this m one of the places that
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I hunt. Um you have to use the four wheeler
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: or something like you can't or the cameras that send
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: pictures to you. They're great too. And I've got slack
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: you know with this before because people in the even
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Jeff Sturgis and I disagree. And Jeff is a fantastic
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: deer hunter, but he does not like it when people
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: use four wheelers. I killed Kicker because I used a
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: four wheeler. I check my cameras. I drive right up
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: to them, and I try to start like in August,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: so that at least once a week they hear that
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: four wheeler and I drive right up to where the
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: cameras are. I leave it running when I hang tree stands.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I leave it running anytime I'm doing anything else, and
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: I don't try to be quiet. I don't try to
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: hide what I'm doing. I need those dear to get
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: used to the sound of that four wheeler not associated
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: with any danger um. Otherwise I can't check the cameras
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: because I'm going to spook deer. It's just not a
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: big enough area to not The sanctuary is, you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: let's stay inside of the ten anchors. But you gotta
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: remember that only leaves me twenty acres to hunt, so
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I can't physically get to where I want to check
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: the cameras without at least rustling some leaves or making
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: some sort of noise. So I don't even try to
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: be quiet, I take the foiler in there, check the cameras.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna check them about once a week, you know,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: just to stay on that pattern. I hang them on
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: uh scrapes wherever I can. I've not really had any
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: luck making my own scrapes, just not not had to work.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: But you know, I kind of know where some traditional
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: scraping areas are, so I'm hanging them on those scrapes.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I'm hanging them on the edges of bean fields where
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I can to get a lot of photos. And I'm
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: just putting them in those high traffic areas and checking
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: them once a week until something shows up. Do you
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: do you paying attention to where you place your cameras
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: in regards to height or like, do you put them
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: way high and angle down? If you're lots of different
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: opinions on whether cameras are spooking deer just from the
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: flash or noise or anything like that, what do you
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: think about that? I don't. I've not noticed. I mean,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I've noticed dear looking at the camera. I've noticed, you know,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: where it seems like they saw it. But you know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I to plan the photos a kicker and he didn't care.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: So I'm assuming if he didn't care, No, dear, I
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: will care now. I don't use you know, I don't
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: have the cameras that have the big white flash ball.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: It's just the normal you know l eds. But um,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I just put them normal height. I don't angle him.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I you know, sometimes I put him too low or
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: too high and screw up, but not intentionally. Right. Um,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: this this kinds oft to the sanctuary. I want to
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: go back to that you were talking about the sanctuary
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the kicker was on, and I've got kind of similar
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: situation like that where I've got a nice big swamp
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: um that I've tried to leave as a sanctuary. But
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: similar to what you have, I've got neighbors hunting right
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: on the property line, which unfortunately is the line the
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: edge of that sanctuary. So I'm curious about two things
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: that you've seen. You know, One, how do you think
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: your neighbors impact that sanctuary? And then number two, what
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: about the wind specifically with neighbors. I mean, what if
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you've got a guy that's hunting on the line of
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that sanctuary with this wind blowing into your sanctuary quote
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: unquote your sanctuary every day or every weekend or something.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Does that just conclude negate the effectiveness of leaving that
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: area there alone. Nope, it's perfect. Um. Part of it
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: is just luck. So if you think about so, I
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: told you that the property is basically a square. The
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: road is the east boy, so the neighbor property is
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: on the west boundary. So which when we have west winds,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: which we have mostly when they go into hunt, their
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: wind is blowing right into the sanctuary. And that's awesome
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: because I know no big bucks will be killed that
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: day by them. I hope like crazy. On the opening
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: day against season, I need two things. I either need
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: a west wind or I needed to be calm, because
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: if it's calm and they come in those deer, it's done. Um,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: it's they're done before before daylight on opening day, it's over.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: They're not going to kill one. The only chance they
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: have is that there was a buck outside of that
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: sanctuary or whatever, and he's coming across their place to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: get back into it. But they have really good cover.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: They have way better piece of property than I can up,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: way better. The cover is way better, there's more of it.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: They have the best piece in that section, and I'm
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: sure they kill some good ones. I just don't know
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: about it, but when they come in and the winds
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: from the west, I'm pretty confident they're not gonna shoot
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: any deer there, you know, because the deer know it.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: They know where the fent is. They know they're safe
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: because nobody's coming in at them from the east, and
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: they know if they just stay put, they'll be fine.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: So I think it helps you to have some guys
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: on the edge if the winds blowing in there. If
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: they're on the edge and the wind is not blowing
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: in there, that's a different story that can be tough.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: But usually those deer, I mean, when they have a sanctuary,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: that's that's where they're spending the majority of their lives.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: They know what happens, they know what's going on, they
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: know when someone walks in, they know where they've encountered
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: people and stands their blinds before, and they just don't
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: do it if you're hunting him. That's another thing that
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I've People think this sounds crazy, but I think kicker
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: knew I was hunting him. But I hadn't killed any
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: bucks there for what three years. I hadn't even really
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: killed any deer. Because where we shoot, the dose is
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: nowhere near where those deer are. I'm not sure he
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: equitted me with danger. I hadn't heard anything. You know,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: he might have seen me, might have smelled me. But
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I've never done anything to him. I've never done anything
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: to any other deer. You know. I can drive in
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: there with the four wheeler and the deer will not
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: leave the field, So they don't think I'm that scary.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: And so that gives you just a little slight margin.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: That might be when the wind was blowing at him.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I had done all the same control stuff
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I could. He had to have smelled a little bit,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: and he might have just thought, oh, it's just that guy,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: and he's not close. You know, he's not that close
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: because I don't smell him that great, you know. And
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: if you watch the video, I mean, I hit my
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: bow on the cameraman stand and it claimed hard, and
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: he looked right up at me, and he didn't he
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: didn't run. So I don't know, what do you What
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: do you think about these bucks in Michigan or wherever,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: or maybe maybe you think it's different. I'm curious, how
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: do you think these deer, these mature bucks use the
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: wind to their advantages? I mean, I hear some people
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: think they always travel with a wind in their face.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I've heard some people that think sometimes they travel with
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: it behind them so they can watch what's in front
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: of them or smell what's behind him. I mean, what's
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: your take on all that. I think they always they
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: always used the wind to their advantage, and I think
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: most of the time they have it in their face.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: And I think that's probably something I do a little
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: bit different than other guys. When the wind is right
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: for a tree stay in for me, I don't hunt
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: it because I don't think a big one is going
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to come through that. Whatever I'm hunting, whether it's a
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: food plot or a small funnel or an edge, He's
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: not going to walk down that edge if he can't
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: smell where he thinks dangerous. So you have to cheat it.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: You have to either get it quartering enough that the
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: deer feel safe, and you have to know you have
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: to shoot him at a certain spot before he gets
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you know, exactly. Don't wind, but I hunt. You know,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: if I'm hunting a trail or an edge and I
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: expect the deer to come from the north, I'm going
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: to hunt some sort of a north whid or a
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: south wind, because I want the wind blowing at the deer.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I just have to figure out how to do it
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: so that it's blowing at the deer. But I'm not
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: necessarily blowing at the deer because if it was blowing
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: away from them, they're not coming down that trail. They
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: just won't do it. They. I mean, if you think
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: about how many deer hunters are a square mile, there's
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: no way an old buck is just going to walk around.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: He knows he's going to get shot because he's been
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: shot at. So they don't do it. It's not in Kansas, Iowa. Don't.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I don't even care about the wind. I mean they,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I mean I I still I still try to follow it,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: but I'm not nearly as worried about it as because
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I am anywhere else. Have you seen anything here in
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: these pressured areas in regards to how they're using wind
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: to choose where they bed Do you think that they're
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: betting in different areas based on one direction? No? I think,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think they've so yes and no. I
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: think they're picking the bedding locations based on where they're
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: not going to encounter people. So I think throughout the fall.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: They have a process of movement issue. They they have
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: preferred food sources, they have preferred areas. If they don't
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: encounter people, they keep using them. But as soon as
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: they encounter people, they keep whittling it down until two
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: things happen. One they find a spot that they like
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: they're not getting messed with by people, or the rut
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: starts to come. So that's why I always say, you know,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: if I can find a buck or get a picture
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: of him after the twentieth of October, I'm pretty confident
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna hunt that dear the entire rest of the
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: deer season because he won't leave even if I spook him.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's gonna leave because he's already eliminated
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: all these other spots and he knows the ruts coming.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: I can't keep bumping around. I gotta start establishing myself
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: here so I can get some of these goes so
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: you can get away with a little bit more. But
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I think where they pick their beds is where they
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: feel the most safe, and the wind is part of that,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: but more of it is they're not running into people,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: so they might bed there because they can smell a
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: certain direction, but they won't bet there. They could smell
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: a certain direction and it's not thick enough, or they're
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: being left alone, they still won't bed there. To um
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: to the idea of figuring out, you know, where these
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: bucks are if there's a buck on this property, like
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: you said, if if you've got one there, you know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: late October, he's probably gonna stay there because of all
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: these other areas off of Is there anything else you're
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: doing other than just having a camera on a scrape
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: or something like that and identify that there is a
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: buck there. Is there anything else other than that you're
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: doing to actually try to pattern specific bucks throughout the fall,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Not really because I don't. I mean I don't necessarily
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: hunt dear on patterns because they getting patterns during the
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: early season when they're on you know, bad to feed.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: And sure I tried to do that. I mean, I
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: have my cameras running right now and I'm hoping a
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: big one shows up that I can pattern because there's
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: no acorns in my section this year except two big
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: white oaks that are full. That's a dream because if
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I can find a big one that's living there, I
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: know where he's coming in early October, but I don't
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: have any pictures to justify it. But so I'm not
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: really hunting patterns. I'm hunting like places they'll they'll go
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: through to find those to crue. So I know where that,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: you know, the thickest spots are. I know where the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: edges are that they want to use to travel to
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: find those doughs. And so I'm not really hunting. I
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: guess that's a pattern, but it's not like it's not
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: a normal pattern. It's I'm just hunting where I think
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: these you are going to end up walking through looking
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: for dose. Yeah, so is that when you're figuring that
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff out? Is that always preseason, you know,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: February March, or are you actually doing some scouting in
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: season for that kind of thing or other stuff? In Michigan,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: it's anymore. It's you know, I've hunted the same places
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: for several years, so I learned it. But generally if
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: it's a new area, um, you have to learn it
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: kind of in season. You can look outside of the
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: season and say, Okay, this is the this is the
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: thickest area. I think this is where they're gonna move through.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: But if you don't establish that as a sanctuary area
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: and you just hunt it, then you're changing everything that
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: they do. I mean, it's so important to have a
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: place where it's like a you know, ground zero. You
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: need a ground zero where those deer will always go
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: to and always come from. And the only way they'll
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: do that is if it's not getting pressured. And sometimes
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: you get lucky and you can have a place like that,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't. But generally, even if you're sharing
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: a property with three or four guys, there's usually a
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: place people don't look at or they won't hunt for
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: some reason, and that's probably where a lot of those
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: deer end up and stay. So if you have that
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: sanctuary established, and you have that ground zero where they're
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: coming and where they're going, and you learn that over
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: time and you hunt a place, that's what everything revolves around.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Like I already know what I'll do on the place
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: you know that I'll hunt. The three places I'll hunt
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: this fall in Michigan, I already know how all hunt
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: them because I have a few years of experience, and
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I know where those either true sanctuaries are or as
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: close to a sanctuary as I can get. So that's
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: what I'm gonna focus on I'm gonna hunt them coming
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: in and out of that. Can you could you walk
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: us through that plan, that hypothetical plan, you know, starting
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: from opening day, like on one of these let's say,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious about how you would approach,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: you know, the first month and a half before gun
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: season on one of these properties. You know, if you
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: could think of some example scenarios and walk us through
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: how you might transition through that period with how you
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: hunt it based on what you know. Yeah, so I'm
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: already doing the weekly trail camera checks. So the trail
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: cameras right now, we're on you know, the edge of
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: being fields because we can't use anything else. We can't
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: use any mineral anymore. So you know, the edges is
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: of being fields pointed down the woodline so I can
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: try to get as many photos as I can, or
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: small fu plots if I have, and I'm already establishing
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: myself in those areas with the four wheeler. Um so
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the dear no when they hear it or they have
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit of disturbance that they're all right, they
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: don't need to run away, and eventually they get used
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: to it and I'm just hoping I see, you know,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: a deer it I can that I want to shoot.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: If I see one that I want to shoot on
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: the camera, I keep the camera going. I hope nothing changes.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: I hope the beans don't start turning yellow before October five,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: where everything changes, and I also start looking for those acorns,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: because there that's going to trump the beans even if
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: they stay green. So on the one place I've already
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: found the two trees that have acorns, I already have
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: a tree stand there um just because it's been there before.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: So if a buck shows up in daylight within eight
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: to ten days of the opener, I'm gonna hunt him,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna hunting right on the edge of that
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: um field where the acorns are, when the wind's right,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: and I'll keep hunting him until I either shoot him
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: or the photos you know, turn out to be nothing
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: but nighttime, or I feel like I spooked them. So
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: then I'll give it probably to around the tent of October,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and if I haven't shot him, I'm out of there
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: because by then the beans will start turning, things will
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: start changing, and I don't want to be caught in
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: that transition where I don't know what he's doing, and
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know where he's going, and I don't want to.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I don't want to chase him out of there, you know.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So once once the tenth of October comes and usually
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: that never happens. I usually don't have any dear, dont
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: you know, So once the tenth of October comes around,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: I start doing a bunch more work and getting caught up,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: getting prepared for for the rut. And and I'll still
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: hunt during that time. I'll take my son out because
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: you know, he's playing football and everything. He doesn't have
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: the luxury of waiting. So we hunt every weekend on
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: you know, someplace where we don't feel like we're doing
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: any damage by hunting it um. And he, you know,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: he's still at that point where he doesn't you know,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: he pulls out for big bucks, but he doesn't care.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: You know, he's not at that point where he really
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: needs to shoot a five year old. He'll shoot a
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: three year old button Um, he just won't shoot your
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: mast or two and a half. So we've got that
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: mid October time frame then coming up. Are you you
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: just other than hunting with your son? Are you waiting
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: until you get to that late October time from them
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: next to that pretty much. I mean, and honestly everybody
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: talks about, you know, the October law. Um, that's around
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: the fifteenth is when things really start to pick up.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: For me. I start to get a lot of different
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: box contrail camera and that's when I start to figure
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: out what I have because the October law is is
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: not real. Um dear. They don't stop moving there on
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: the fact, they're moving more all the way through October.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: What they do is they get away from the people
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: that are hunting them, and they start to change as
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: the food sources changed, So the beams start to yellow
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: and brown. They're out of them until they're completely brown.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: You know, um, corn is a little bit different. Some
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: of it starts coming off that doesn't that doesn't come
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: off as pretty dried down, and you know, they don't
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: like pulling it off the stocks if they don't have to.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: And there's usually acorns, you know, you get that. We
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: usually get a fair bit of rain in the fall.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: So any of the brows is starting to get sweeter
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: because it's had that influx of moisture and it's starting
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: to get ready to die. So all those sugars start
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: to be released after frost, just like Braska plants. You know,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: natural forage does the same thing. So there's no law.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: The deer have just changed. They're moving into different areas,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm starting to see a lot more bucks on
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: the cameras and I'm starting to figure out, Okay, this
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: one's gonna stay here, this one's gonna stay here, you know,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: And I'm getting geared up for the and I'll hunt
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: any major cold front after I'll go in and hunt
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: like it's a rout hunt, just in case they're starting
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: to do something they shouldn't do and get up, you know,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: in earlier in the afternoon or hanging out later in
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: the morning checking scare apes or whatever. But you know,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: from a fifteenth on, I'll hunt any time the conditions
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: are really good. Have you seen anything in regards to
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: how many sits you can pull off per stand before
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: it starts going downhill pretty drastically in Michigan or anywhere
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, it's related to whether the deer no
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: you're in there or not. Um, if you can walk
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: in there and they don't know it, and you can
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: walk out of there and they don't know that, you
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: can hunt every single day. Um, the reason that they
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: decline a little bit is because you're leaving some sort
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: of hint that you were there. And I don't have
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: very many fans where I can't leave some sort of hint.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, we have smaller properties here in Michigan. Usually
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: you can get permission. If I could get permission from
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: a neighbor to cross their place to hunt where I
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: want to hunt on one of the places I have
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: permission to hunt, it would be awesome. But I don't.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I have to come in from one direction, and it's
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: the raw directions, So I have to be pretty particular
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: about when I hunt it because I don't have any
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: way else to get in, and when I come out
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: in the evenings, I have to walk through echild. There's
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: no other way to come out. So it really depends
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: on how much impact you have on that stand getting
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: in and out of it. If you have no or
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: minimal impact, you can hunt in the bunch. If it's
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: you have to walk through bean field on your way out,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get away from with that very often. Yeah,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: speaking of stands in some states like Ohio or Io,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: whether I've hunted, I feel like there's just so much
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: more leniency with what you can get away within a
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: tree stand to like these deer just don't seem to
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: be trained to look up as much as I feel
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: like they do in Michigan. Have you seen anything like that?
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And do you do anything different with your stand setups
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: here and to account for that. So I killed a
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: deer in Kansas off the ground, sitting on a three
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: legged stool on the edge of an alfalfa field. In
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: alfalfa fields in Kansas are basically dirt with a few
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: sprints here there. Um, I didn't have any cover, I
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: didn't use a blind nothing. I was just sitting on
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: a stool on the edge of a dirt field and
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I used a decoy. He came out of the creek bottom.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: He walked around the decoy looking at me like what
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: is that bump sitting there? And when I went to draw,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: it was one of those cheap three legged Walmart stools.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: When I drew, the front leg bent so the stool
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: fell out from under me. So I kind of wobbled
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: and had to sort of half crouch. The entire time
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: the deer is staring at me doing that and let
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: me shoot him. So Yeah, they don't really have the
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: same level of get up and go in other states
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: as they do in Michigan. Um. In Michigan, I'm pretty
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: particular about how I'll hang my stands. I also have
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: two people in the tree most of the time, so
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: that makes it double because I got a camera guy
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: with me, so I you know, I don't go crazy high,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: but I don't like to be any lower than eighteen
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: or nineteen feet and I won't go and you know,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: a telephone pole type tree, I gotta have a couple
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: of trunks, and you know, I try to camouflage as
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: much as I can in Iowa, Kansas, Ohio, UM, I
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: don't worry about it quite as much. I try to
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: get high in Ohio because of the hills, but it's
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: not because I feel like they're they're gonna see me.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Do you ever brush in your tree stands, additional stuff
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: or anything that. Yeah, those artificial Christmas trees, if you like,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: can go around. You know, after January one dumpster dive,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: you can get a lot of camouflage because those artificial
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Christmas tree limbs are awesome because they're flexible. You know,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: they have good cover on them, and you just put
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: a you know, screw or something in the tree and
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: you just twisted around it, and those worked really well.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I've taken I try to hang in oak trees because
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: they keep their lee so much longer. Um. But you know,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I'll definitely put something up there if I can. You know,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: when I on my little property that I want here,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: you know where a hinge cut. Um, if I'm hinge
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: cutting near a tree stand location, I'll hinge cut you know,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: a couple of trees and put them behind it so
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: that there's brush and stuff around the trees. Too nice.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about your early season
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: in October hunting. We talked about the rut, But what
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: about the late season For a lot of people. I
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: think in situations like this, the late season can be
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: pretty tough, especially here in Michigan. After you know, as
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: you know, our firearm season is just a day louge
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: of of hunters, so many hunters, everything seems to change. How,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: if at all, can you make the best of the
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: late season in a place like that. Yeah, well it's
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: for me, it's been. Um. If the deer that I
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: want to shoot now kicker was the exception. I never
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: saw him during lusble oter season. So every year year
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: I always thought he got shot. So I had to
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: go through a whole winter in spring and summer assuming
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: that I didn't have him to hunt more because I
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: never saw him the muzzleloader, but every other you know,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: mature buck that I've hunted on the place that shot kicker. UM,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I could easily shoot him the muzzleloader season because they
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: come out and in fact, the last week of gun season,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: they're coming out in broad daylight. The buck my sun
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: shot this year. I mean he was five years old.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: He just only scored about one twenty, but he's as
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: mature as they get. The year before, UM, I had
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: him probably every single day from around Thanksgiving through the
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: end of the deer season. I had him coming out,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: you know, three in the afternoon every day, and I
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: could have easily shot him, but I wanted him to
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: get a year bigger because I felt, well, he'll peak
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: next year. He'll peak next year. Well this year he didn't.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: He just he was the same size. So my son
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: shot him. I saw him two or three times the
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: last week have done season come out to this um cornfield.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: My son had basketball, so it was like mid muzzleloader
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: season before we could get to him. We saw him
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: one evening, he came out and we didn't get a shot,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: and there was like ten other bucks with him. So
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: we waited two nights, went back that night, and shot
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: him that night. So I think that the late season
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: that's Fatida having a sanctuary. If you have it and
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: you really do treat it like a sanctuary, and I
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: pretty much don't gun hut um. I'll go and sit
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: once in a while, but way far away, just kind
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: of observational stuff. If you have that sanctuary and you
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: have a food source and you leave those deer alone, Um,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: it's remarkable how many deer you can see in the
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: late season, and how many of them will be the
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: bucks that you saw all of both season, as long
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: as they didn't get shot. Yeah, but you can't. You
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: can't mess with them, and you can't there. There's zero tolerance.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: You just can't move them. That's right. What I've seen too.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: On one of my main Michigan properties that I do
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: have a little bit of control over, just like you,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I've got a regular sanctuary, but then I just essentially
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: let my entire property be a sanctuary during firearm season
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: for the exact reason you mentioned, because that allows some
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: of these bucks to make it through, preserve some area
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: of relative safety. And then, like you said, when you've
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: got a good food source and you wait for the
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: right timing, then the late season, I go in there
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: and lo and behold a couple of these bucks usually
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: are still alive and feel comfortable because no one's been
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: bugging up in this little small area. Um. But it
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: does take a particular situation, you know, being able to
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: have some type of spot that you can leave off
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: limits like that. Yeah, yeah, and you gotta, I mean,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: that's why. That's one of the things. You know. People,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: you know, I've I've least ground before and and I
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: just bought a small piece, you know. It's it's not
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: that I think leasing is a great thing. It's not
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: that I think, know, you have to have money to
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: hunt and we should be able to afford to buy property.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: It's just a simple question, how serious are you? You know,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: I'm very serious about your hunting. I love it. And
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: it's not that I'm obsessed with antlers. It's not that
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I'm only going to be happy, you know, if I
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: can kill these big bucks or I'm doing it to
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: be famous, it's nothing of that. It's what my passion is.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: So if that's your passion, you have to ask yourself
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: what is it worth to you? What are you willing
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: to do? And if that means paying a little bit
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: for at least so that you can have the conditions
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: where you can have the type of hunting you want,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: then you have to be willing to do that and
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: put up with what everybody's gonna say about you. If
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: it means, you know, buying a piece of ground which
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: is actually more affordable than people think, if you get
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the right one, that's what you have to be willing
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: to do. But so many guys get mad or you know,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: maybe it's just because we're in the media. I mean,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: I know, you get plenty of Facebook comments and other things.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: It's not that we're doing something anybody else can do.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: It's a we're willing to do what most people aren't.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm willing to pay a little bit of
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: money a month to own land. I didn't get a
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: very big piece, it's only seventeen acres, but it's something
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: I can do. I'm willing to save up some money
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: to pay for a lease each year. You know, I'm
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: willing to drive seventeen hours to campus. What are you
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: willing to do? That's that's the question. And nobody's stopping you.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's your it's your own choice. Nobody
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: is preventing you from doing it. Very true. And I'd
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: say also in addition to what are you willing to do,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: it's what are you willing to sacrifice as well? Exactly
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: to have that little extra money to pay for at
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: least or that little extra money to put on a
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: payment for a property. You know, don't buy the big
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: fancy truck or don't buy the big news screen TV. Um.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of us, if we
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: make choices sacrifice in some areas, we can find that
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: little extra money, or maybe it's time, little extra time.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you get to sacrifice if you want
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: to prioritize deer hunting in these types of things. Yeah,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: And that's a good point. Because I bought a brand
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: new truck. I had a brand new ram. It was
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: like five fifty bucks a month, and I had a
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: ten months and I sold it and now I have
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: like a two one fifty that's one third the price.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: And that was because I was writing out the check
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: for the bill on that side, what are you doing?
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: This was like the cost of a really good out
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: of state deer license every month, and I said, screw it,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: I'm going hunting. You know, it's all about choices. Yeah,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: that's that's so so much the truth. So on this
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: topic of uh, the importance of a place. You know,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: you're not going to kill something if you don't have
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: the deer there, and a property can hold mature deer
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: in place like Michigan, how do you find an area
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: that can hold or does hold quality box? How do
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: you go about finding those spots, whether it be by
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: permission or you know, I guess I'd be curious Number one,
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: how do you find a spot like that just to
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: try to get permission hunt? And then number two I'd
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: like to hear from you, especially given the fact that
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: you're doing some of this with white tail properties. How
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: do you pick the right spot to buy um in
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: an area like this? So two part question there for you.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: So the first one, by permission is is easier to answer,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: but it has a less satisfying result. The easiest answer
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: is whatever one you can get permission on, because it's
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: hard to do that. I mean sure, you can go
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: around and look for these really prime places and ask
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: permission and do that. You know, just have a list
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: property that you think is really good and some that's
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: not so good, and ask right on down the lift
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: until you get permission. Because sometimes the pieces that don't
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: look as good, you know, might be the right one.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: They might be in the right location, and maybe the
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: neighbor property is really good and you can you know,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: hunt this new piece better with less pressure and start
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: sucking some of those deer over. You just never know
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: in pressure or permission in Michigan is pretty hard to get,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: so you can't be that choosy. You're just gonna have
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: to get the piece, and you've got to hunt it
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: a couple of years because you even you just don't
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: know until you hunt it, even if you scout it
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: do all the things right, you don't know until it's
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: actually hunting season of how things go. So my advice
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: on getting permission is get whatever piece you can get,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: and the more the better because that gives you options,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: and it's leasing is a little bit easier because you
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: might have a little more options. You might have you know,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: you're coming in with a little bit different approach than
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: every other guy that's asked, but it's it's still not
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: easy to find a decent place. Buying is a whole
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: different animal. It's when I bought my place, I mean,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: I was just kind of joking. I said, well, I'm
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: gonna look at this piece of ground. I'm gonna buy
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: some property. And I wasn't serious about it because I
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: thought there's no way I'd be able to afford it. Well,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: once I started doing the mass and started understanding the process,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I actually could. No, I couldn't buy very much, but
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: the seventeen acres of that I have, you know, in
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: a few years, it's going to be dynamite. It's really good,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: and it costs almost nothing. So you just have to
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: go into it with a budget, with an idea. You
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: really need to talk to someone who knows about landing
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: can help you through the process because they there's so
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: many properties that the realtors have access to that you
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: don't even know about. You know what, because there's so
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: many different types of agencies and listing sites that you think,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: while I'm looking online and I'm not finding anything, that
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're not there, so and it doesn't cost
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: you anything. To have a guy represent you as the buyer.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: The seller pays his commission, so you don't it cost
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: you nothing, and they'll do all the legwork and the paperwork.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: And you know, not to sound salesman, but when you
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: have a group like Wetial Properties, where our job is
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: to work on hunting land, it's a little different than
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: you know, Sally's real Estate, who is selling condos and houses.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: You know, how much does she really know about hunting land?
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Almost nothing? So how is she going to give you
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: good advice? And in a good agent will tell you,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: even if you have the money and he's gonna make
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: a commission, a good one will say, don't buy that one.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: It's it's not going to do what you want to do.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Let's find another one, even if it's smaller and less expensive,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: and my commission is gonna be smaller, because if you're
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: not happy with hunting it, you're not going to recommend
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: that guy to anybody. Helps. So, you know, finding ground
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: to buy is not that hard. Obviously, having the money
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: to buy it is a whole different thing. But you know,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: there's all kinds of programs that you can look at,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: and there are ways that you can make land a
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: lot more affordable then you think, you know, whether it's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: running out the crop ground or actually farming it yourself,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: which means you don't. You're not actually gonna be farming it.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: You're gonna pay a guy for a day to planet,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: You're going to buy the feed, and then you're gonna
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: pay a guy for a day to harvest it, and
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: you're going to keep all of that. You know, rather
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: than fifty bucks an acre, you have a little more risk,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: but a lot more reward. And you know that's something
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: a good agent can talk you through. Timber value, you know,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: conservation easement programs, all kinds of things that you can
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: actually make the property a lot more affordable than than
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: you might think. So, speaking of owning land, and you
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: mentioned you own that seventeen acres, and I know that
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: this is an impossible question because it's different for everybody
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: and every property, but just give me a hypothetically, or
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: maybe just tell me about your property specifically in an
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: area like this with lots of hunting pressure and a
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: small property. What are some of the things you would
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: prioritize when it comes to actually trying to improve that property,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: or how do you think through that so I always
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: look at it as a rule of fourths or a
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: rule of thirds. I want one fourth of the property
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: to be in something that I can put food on
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: or already has food, so it's either crop ground or
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: open enough that you can put food plots. I want
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: one fourth of it in honnable timber. I want one
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: fourth of it in brush. And then I want one
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: fourth of it to be something that's either brush or
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: timber or tall grasses, just cover, like some sort of cover.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: So if you're gonna go with the thirds to make it,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: you know, some properties will fit into herds better. You
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: want one third and food, one third in kind of
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: standard honnible timber, in one third in cover, and you
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: can make any property, any property have that. It just
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: might be a more pensive over time, and it might
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: take you more energy. But you can make a flat, wide,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: open bean field into all three of those. Just gonna
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: take you some time because you've got to plant the trees,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: you gotta put in the brush, you gotta let it,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: you know, go over. But you can do it. And
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: that's the important thing that guys have to think about,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: you know, especially if you're on a pretty tight budget.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: I was on a tight budget when I bought my
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: my property, so I bought a piece that nobody wanted.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: It had issues. People thought it was landlocked. It wasn't.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: They just didn't do the research and realized there was
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: an actual easement. It didn't look like much. It was
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: kind of open in the middle of some scrubby grass
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: and the woods weren't that great. They didn't They didn't
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: want to look at it for what it could do.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: They and I don't know if they didn't want to
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: go in and do the work or whatever. But two
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: years time, I've completely transformed that place and I got
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: a heck of a deal on it. So I like
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: to look for that mix, and most places have that.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: You just have to have the vision to see that.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: It may not have it right now, but I can't
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: make it that way, you know, because unless you're going
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: to shell out serious money, you know, you can't be
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: that choosy. You gotta be able to see what it
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: can be and be willing to turn it into what
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: it needs to be. So what specifically did you do
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: on your farm. I'm just curious about how you actually
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: took that and put into action on your seventy anchors well,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: the first thing was, I mean nature helped me out
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: and killed all my ash trees, so the ashbore did
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of the work. So I probably get taken
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: out between thirty and forty ash trees that were already dead,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: so they by dying, we're going to open up the canopy. Anyway,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I just took them out because I wanted the firewood,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: and you know, I just got them out of the
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: way so they weren't falling over and making a mask.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: So once I got most of those trees out, then
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: I started cutting down trees that were just big and useless,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: had some cotton woods, had some you know, cherry, and
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: people that were growing crooked. So if they weren't you know,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: a tree that I had any timber value or any
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: hunting value, meaning they weren't oaks where they would produce acorns,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I cut them down for the firewood. Then I started
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: hinge cutting to make it thicker to let more sunlight in.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I want thick. I want everything in there
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: to be thick. So the woods kind of makes a
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: circle around the property. In the center was basically fallow
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: grass with brush mostly multi flora rose and um autumn olives,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: so once I got the woods kind of taken care of,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: I bought two shrubs, hazelnut shrubs and high bush cranberry,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: and I started putting those in the more opening in
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: the more open areas, so that i'd have some shrubby,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: thick stuff going up. Took any of the natural openings
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: and killed it and started a food plot program and
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: just kept every spring I go in and a hinge
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: cut a little bit more. It's there's any you know,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: shrubs that are doing well that I don't like where
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: they are, I dig them up, my transplant them, and
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to make it so that you can't
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: see across it. I'm made trails through the fixed stuff,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: through the food plots, so those deer have circuits that
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: they can walk and they're always hidden. You know. The
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: way it lays out is really nice because I can
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: hunt every border and I don't have to go into
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: the center at all. And I just kept making it thicker,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: making it thicker, and you know, experimenting with different food
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: plots so that I have enough food to keep the
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: deer on there. And it's not the best soil, so
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: it's still a work in progress, but you know, it's
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: the food plots this year are are doing much better.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: I had to replan them because I planted corn and
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: beans in the summer or in the spring, and they
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: didn't grow because it was so dry. So I killed
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: everything under and I just put my fall stuff in
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: what ten days ago or something, and all this rain
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: we've had has turned it in and working really good.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: But just I've just tried to make it thick. So
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: if I can hinge cut a hinge cut, if I
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: can find a place where the grass is they're sort
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: of sparse, I'll burn it and try to get him
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: to come back better. And planning the shrubs and stuff,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: you know you're not gonna see immediate impacts, but you
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: know they're already need to waste high and they were
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: seedlings when I put them in, So I'm really starting
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: to see that change. But thick cover is where it's at.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: Have you started seeing any results in the way of
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: you know, more dear hanging out there, or better deer,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: better bucks or anything. Have you seen changes in dear
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: behavior activity given all these have a temperaments, Yeah, I have.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: I mean there's more dear there, there's still not the
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: bucks there that I really want, but we also had.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: The year I bought it was the year e h
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: D hit, so we lost a ton of deer in
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: a ton of bucks. Now, last year in the summer,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: I got a picture of a really nice buck on
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: my place in my food plot in a neighbor about
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: three quarters a mile away. Actually shot that book in
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: November and it was mid So they're starting to show up.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, I still haven't quite got it figured out,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: you know, how to get several bucks to live there
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: and stay there and get older, and they might be
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: I just haven't hunted it that much because I'm trying
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: to you know, I'm trying to get an inventory and
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: a stockpile going, so I'll hunt it more this year
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: than I have ever. And I'm trying to get it
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: so that I have a good age structure in there,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: so if I do shoot a three or four year old,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: you know I have another one to take its place.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: And I just haven't felt like I've had any of
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: that the last couple of years, so I didn't want
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: to shooting the bucks off of it. Do you maintain
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: a sanctuary on a property like that, even though it's
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: just seven teen acres? Well, sort of I mean, I
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: kind of treat it like it's the entire thing is
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: a sanctuary. So I will go in you know, obviously
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: have to go in there to plant the food plots,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: and I have trail cameras, but I'll go in there
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: with the four wheeler like once a week and just
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: zip to where the trail cameras are and they're in
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: more of the more open stuff. But um, I haven't
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: been in the woods or any of the cover in
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: a year. I mean since I stopped cutting I got
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: all the firewood out that I wanted. I haven't been
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: inside that woods and over a year, and I don't
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: really have any intentions of going back in there. You know,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: maybe late this winter, after deer season, I'll hike back
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: there and see how it looks. But um, I try
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: to treat the whole property as much as I can.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: It's not a true sanctuary. It's not like any of
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: the others, but I don't have any I never walk
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: in there if I'm in there a time the four wheeler,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're not going to just walk. When I
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: hang the tree stand, I can go right down the edges,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: which I have those kind of brush hogs, so it's
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: like a lane dread four wheeler hanging the tree stand.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: It faces in the pretty but I never actually have
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: to go into the interior of it unless I'm putting
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: food plots in or checking the trail camera. And honestly,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't even do that. I shouldn't. I should keep that.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: I should either have a camera in the center that
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: sends photos or just keep the cameras up on the perimeter. Yeah.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Have you have you use those wireless cameras much? I
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: just got my first one and how it yesterday actually,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: so I'm excited to try that. But have you seen
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: good results using that? Yeah? My Ohio property um last
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: year was the first year I had it, and I
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: had one of the Moultrie Um wireless and it was awesome.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: I mean I've used that model several times in different places.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: But Multory just switched over to a new system, so
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: mine doesn't work anymore. So it kind of took me off.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: I have to get a new one, But there they are,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: the cats me out. I mean, yeah, it's forty bucks
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: or whatever for a month or two, so that kind
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: of sucks. But I couldn't. There's no other way for
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: me to scout that place in Ohio. I mean when
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: I was going down there, I knew what that you
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: were doing in what bucks I was hunting. So they're
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: really I think they're great. Um, a little more pricey,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: but just you know, I'm only going to use it
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: in September, October, November, maybe December, so I guess I
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: can justify the costs that way. But um, it just
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: goes back to that thing, how bad do you want it?
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: You know, how how serious are you? But I really
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: I wish they would come down in price because I'd
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: have several more. But on my piece. Uh, you know,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: that's that's what That's what you know you're talking earlier about.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: Allow me and Brentley, you know we kind of parablet careers.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things we both do, like
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: I'm totally not afraid to say that I don't know
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: everything and that you know, I just admitted I shouldn't
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: be going in the center in my place to check
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: that camera, so and I shouldn't be, but I don't
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: have another sending camera to check. So um, eventually I
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: get one and I won't go into the center of
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: my property at all. I just had to send it
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: out there, so yeah, yeah, I agree. As soon as
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: it's go down in price, I'll be doing my best
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: to get my hands on a bunch because just being
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: able to get that intel without needing the storm in
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: there and spook deer leaves, scent, etcetera. Man, that makes
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: a big difference. With this camera I just got. I
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: hung it kind of in a situation, kind of like
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: what you're describing on your seventeen. This is a little
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: food plot I have kind of in the core of
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: this main Michigan property hunt that I don't ever want
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: to go in there until the absolute best conditions. Usually
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: I save it for the rut. But if I knew
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: there was a buck showing up during daylight there, which
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: that has happened in the past, I'd like to go
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: in there and try to hunt him. But usually I
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: don't find that out until November one or second. When
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: I go there and hunt and check that camera, I'm like, oh, darn,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: I wish I was here on the twenty three, and
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: um so this year I put that wireless camera back there,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: so now I'm gonna be able to keep tabs on it.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: And if Mr Big shows up on the seventh, well
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: I might be there the eighth through the ninth through
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: the tenth conditions are right, so it can change. Be
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: prepared for it to work in reverse. Because last year
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: I hunted the opening day of shotgun in Ohio. I hunted.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: I both hunted the two days before, and then I
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: was going to hunt the first three days of the
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: shotgun season. The first day of the shotgun season toured
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: rain the entire day and it was supposed to rain
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: all the next day. And I'm like, this sucks. I'm leaving.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: I have work to do. Well. I got home and
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: I get I was getting photo sent to me every morning.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: At that time. At ten am on the second day
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: of shotgun season, is about a hundred and seventy ten
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: pointer was standing in front of my tree stands for
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: hour and a half. That's brutal. Yeah, that was a pain. Yeah,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: I can I can already see just now, I'm like
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: obsessively checking my email hoping that there's a picture. You know,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: I can see that being pretty dangerous come hunting season. Um, yeah,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: I can obsess about that. It is fun though, I
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: mean I like checking trail cameras almost as much as
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: I like Yeah. Yeah, So one last topic, I want
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: to touch on before we wrap this up, relates to
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: what you just mentioned there, you know, hunting in Ohio
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: or I know you hunt Kansas and Iowa and South
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Dakota and all of all sorts of places, and being
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: someone who lives in one of these tougher states to hunt,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: whether it be here in Michigan or Pennsylvania or New
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: York or New Hampshire, Georgia wherever, a lot of us
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: like to travel to some of these, you know, slightly
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: less pressured states where there's older bucks, better opportunity. Um,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: you've been able to do that really successfully and consistently.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Can you share with us a few of the things
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: that you're doing when it comes to either planning or
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: executing those trips to be so successful. Yeah, I mean
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: one of the we all we all kind of make
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: fun of Michigan a lot, and that's because it is hard.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: You know, there's not a lot of older deer. But
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: the flip side of that is we're the best hunters
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: in the country period. If you can kill we'll see
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: big deer here. You can do it anywhere. So once
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: you do get to the places where the deer, you know,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: are less pressured and they do act a little bit
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: more normal in the rut we're calling and things are effective.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: You are very lethal. Um. I don't approach different states
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: really any differently than I do in Michigan, and it
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: makes things easier. So if you go in and you
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: look at the app of a piece of public ground
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: and you think of it in terms of Michigan and
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: you think, well, nobody's going to go here because it's
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: too hard, or here's a nice thick area of private
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: land that has a nice funnel that goes into the public.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: You know, if you just think of it is like
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: a Michigan hunter would, You're gonna be totally fine. And
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: that's always my approach, you know, I like, I really
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: really like to look at the maps as much as
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: I possibly can, and in a weird way, I you know,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: I'm doing more media hunts now where I just kind
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: of go to show up at the place and they're
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: going to kind of set us up. And I mean, no,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: they're fun, but I don't like them quite as much
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: because there's so much of the experience missing. You know,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not really familiar with the property. I'm not necessarily
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: you know, usually they let you pick out your stands
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: and they talk over with you. But it's only a
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: day's worth of it versus you know, I've already had
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: two months of looking at this piece in Ohio and
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: it's the same piece as hunted last year. But I'm
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: just constantly looking at those maps and figuring out how
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Dear would use it. So I don't have a real
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: different approach other than I'm gonna use Google Earth and
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: things like that as much as I possibly can, and
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna look at it like a Michigan deer hunter would.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: And when you do that, you'll start to realize how
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: much we've learned, is deer hunters because of the pressure
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: gear that we have to hunt, and once you get
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: out there, it almost always works out where holy crap,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: they actually are using this funnel and when I rattle
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: at them, they come towards me, and when I grunt,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: they don't run away. So it really makes it a
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: lot of fun because you're using the things that you've
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: really learned and you know, kind of home the craft
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: here in Michigan and then going to a place where
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: you see just how effective it can be. Yeah, it is.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: It is a lot of fun when Dear do react
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: to calls or decoys or something like that in a
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: positive way versus high tailing. Does your does your level
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: of aggressiveness differ? Though? When you've got you know, you
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: know you just have five days to get it done
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: in such and such place. I mean, do you approach
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: things differently just from a timing perspective at all? Yeah?
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: And I mean I do that here in Michigan too, though,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: because I know the window is so small. And the
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: guys that have hunted with me or videos with me,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: they always like to make fun of me because I
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: will move they tree stand at any time, does not
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: matter if if it's the rut and I see more
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: than two dolls go through one place and I can't
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: shoot that distance. It might be nine thirty in the morning,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: we're getting down and we're moving free stands right then,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: and I look at it is. I can't let opportunities
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: pass because there's not that many of them. So in Michigan,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: the time period to kill a big buck is pretty small,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: So I'm not going to waste it. If I'm out
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: of state and I've got four or five days, I'm
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: not gonna wait. I'm gonna move that stand. And you know,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: I kind of take pride in the fact that I can.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: I can get down and have another tree, stand up,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: and be hunting again in less than fifteen minutes. You know,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: it's not that hard. If you think ahead, pick out
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: the tree, make a plan, get down and move it.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: You know you can do it quickly, really quietly, and
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: and it works out great. So I'm always when, especially
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: during the run, I'm always aggressive. Now I'll be a
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: lot more aggressive with calling in a state like Kansas
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: than Michigan. But I'm not gonna let deer walk by
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: that I can't shoot without moving if I feel like
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: that's where a buck's going to show up. Speaking of
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: bucks in that to a situation, what about if you
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: see a buck move somewhere. You know I was. I
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: was debate this, Okay, I saw him do this once.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: Do I move the next day or do I wait
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: and see if he does it twice? What's your take
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: on that? It's kind of situational. Um. If if it's
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: a deer I've been hunting and I feel like I
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: know him and his personality and I see him doing
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: something and I think, ah, that's what he's been doing,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: then I'll move. If I see him doing it, and
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, that was a fluke thing. I mean,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: it's all kind of like gut instinct. If it's a
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: I've never hunted and it's out of state, then I'm
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: probably gonna move because I don't know that that's not
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: what they do all the time, you know. But here,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: I generally feel like I get a pretty good idea
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: of how the deer you use the place. And you know,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: if I see him doing something that I don't think
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: they normally would do, then I probably won't react, but
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: sometimes I will if I feel like that's how he's
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: been avoiding me. Now I've got him figured out. All
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: makes sense. So so we're coming up on time here, Tony.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: I've talked your ear off for long enough now, but
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: I want to I want to ask you one final question.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: If there was one like action item you could leave
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: with our listeners, one change you would tell everyone to
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: try to make before this season to be a little
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: bit more successful in these types of situations. We talked
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: about what would be that one action that you want
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: everyone's take. For me, things changed when I when I
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: refused to settle. So if you haven't seen, you know,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: big bucks. Are got pictures of big bucks where you're hunting,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: you know here in Michigan, Um, you're probably not going
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: to find one. There's a reason, especially if you spent
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: a few years, there's a reason they're not there, and
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: you probably can't do anything about that. So you got
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: to find something better, you know, if it's leasing or
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: getting permission or trying to figure out how to buy
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: a place, you know, that's what you've got to do.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: But if you haven't seen a truly big deer, um,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: you know, four year old or five year old or
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: whatever in three or four years, and the places that
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: you hunt and you didn't have two year olds that
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: you saw last year or three year olds, you're not
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: gonna have a four year old this year. So you
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: gotta you know, kind of goes back to you got
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: to decide how serious you are about this. What is
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: it that makes you happy as the hunter? And if
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: shooting two year old deer intrep year old deer makes
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: you happy the hunter, then do that. That's totally your choice,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: and I have no problem with that. But if your
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: guy who says, I really want to shoot these bigger bucks,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: then you've got to do what it takes to find them.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: And if you haven't seen them in several years and
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: you don't have up and commerce, you know, a big
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: Bucks not just gonna magically grow out of the ground.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: It's suddenly be five years old. It just doesn't happen
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, I think that's spot on, and that's
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: just the the honest truth of it. There's nothing fancy
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: about it's just simply you gotta be hunting where they're
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: at exactly. So tony for people who want to either
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: follow what you're doing from a media standpoint or people
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: that want to learn more about what you've got going
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: on with White Tail Properties, where can they go online
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: to find that stuff? So there's a couple of places.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: I have um a writer page on Facebook, so you
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: can just search for my name and you'll either find
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: my personal page or my writer page, it doesn't matter.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: It's kind of the same stuff. Um tourch You can
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: go to White Tie Properties and go to the Michigan
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: agents and see what you know, all of us are
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: doing and what we've got going And then I'm another
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: life all at the time too, so Other life dot
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: Com you can look me up there. Perfect. I'll make
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: sure to link to all that stuff, and I know
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: I will be, and I bet a lot of our
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: listeners will be following along. So hopefully you'll have another
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: great season, Tony. I'm gonna try, that's for sure me too. Well,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking the time to do this,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: and uh, good luck, alright, no problem, Mark, All right,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: Well there you go. I hope you enjoyed this conversation
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: with Tony. I know I did, and I'm planning on
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: putting some of these ideas into action in just a
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks when our season opens here in Michigan,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: and I cannot wait for that. So we're going to
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: wrap things up here by thinking our partners who helped
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: make this podcast possible, so big thank you too. Sick
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: of gear Red, Nick Blind's Hunter A Maps, YETI Osonics,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Carbon Express, MAYBN Optics, and the White Tail Institute of
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: North America. Go check these companies out, give him a
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: tweet or an email if you can, and let them
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: know that you appreciate them helping us make this show.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: That would be pretty awesome and I certainly would appreciate
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: it too. And with all that said, thank you all
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: for joining us today and get pumped folks, it's hunting season,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: and with that being the case, I would hope and
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: expect it would be very disappointed if, at this very
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: moment you are not absolutely stoked out of your mind
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: and wired to hunt. H