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How Tech is Invading Privacy E167 · The FIT4Privacy Podcast | Exploring ISO Standards AI Privacy | Grow Skills Store

• 0:00
  At the end of the day, it's funny because we want privacy,
• 0:04
  but we also want to log things, right?
• 0:08
  So as a like, if something, God forbid, happened to him into a
• 0:13
  hotel room or anywhere else, you would say, where are the
• 0:16
  cameras? Why aren't there cameras?
• 0:18
  You know, so, but so you're willing in certain aspects to
• 0:22
  give up some privacy. If they're going to have a lot
• 0:24
  of cameras, I think it's their responsibility to tell you like,
• 0:27
  hey, you know, there's cameras everywhere.
• 0:30
  But then the other part is how do you make sure that all of
• 0:33
  that is secure, right? Because you don't want cameras
• 0:37
  that are going to be hacked. You don't want people to get
• 0:39
  access to cameras if you're, if it's showing your entire world,
• 0:43
  if you don't want it, if you don't feel comfortable with it,
• 0:45
  you're not forced to have these products.
• 0:47
  Hi, my name is Punit Patia and you're listening to Fit for
• 0:50
  Privacy podcast where AI meets privacy.
• 0:53
  This is not legal advice. Thanks for listening.
• 0:57
  Technology is evolving very, very fast and it's invading into
• 1:02
  the space of privacy, into personal space.
• 1:05
  It is creating concerns. Yes, I came across a scenario
• 1:08
  wherein someone has created what we call a digital safe.
• 1:12
  So when you go to a hotel or at home, you have a big iron box
• 1:16
  that you use to keep belongings, to keep things safe.
• 1:20
  Now that is also digital, that is also connected to Internet.
• 1:23
  All these things create concern. Is my privacy being protected?
• 1:26
  Is my data being protected? How are they going to keep my
• 1:29
  fingerprints, my voice, my video and all those things?
• 1:33
  And it's not clear how to protect your privacy while the
• 1:37
  technology comes along. Of course, you need to be
• 1:39
  transparent. Of course, trust is important,
• 1:41
  but how are people on the ground doing it?
• 1:44
  For this, we go and talk to Oscar Hadiya, who's a serial
• 1:48
  entrepreneur and has set up this company space that provides
• 1:53
  digital safes. And we're going to ask him, how
• 1:55
  is technology invading the privacy space and how are
• 1:59
  entrepreneurs making sure that privacy is protected?
• 2:03
  And as we go, do check out Fit for privacy.com and grow skills
• 2:08
  dot store while consulting and training needs.
• 2:12
  Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Fit for Privacy
• 2:14
  podcast. And as I promised, we are with
• 2:16
  Oscar Head. I, Oscar, welcome to the Fit for
• 2:18
  Privacy podcast. Thank you for having me.
• 2:20
  So I would like to start with a basic question.
• 2:23
  You're a serial entrepreneur. You see the avalanche of
• 2:26
  technology, AI is here, technology is evolving.
• 2:29
  How do you as an entrepreneur see the evolution of technology
• 2:33
  in last few years and what's in scope for us in coming years?
• 2:37
  Yeah, it's funny because you know, today anywhere you go,
• 2:41
  everybody always talks about AI. There's over 60,000 companies
• 2:45
  out there right now that are doing AI.
• 2:48
  And The funny thing about AI is we are in the most entry level
• 2:53
  of AI that you could think of, right?
• 2:56
  Like we say AI, what is AI? Artificial artificial
• 3:00
  intelligence, but there's nothing artificial about Chachi
• 3:04
  PT or any of these GPTS or any of these services that we use,
• 3:08
  right? I mean, when we talk about AI,
• 3:11
  really what we're thinking about is the future and evolution of
• 3:15
  AI is that AI itself is going to think on its own.
• 3:19
  You know, so when you come home, the if you're going to have a
• 3:23
  robot in your house, the robot is going to see you, it's going
• 3:25
  to come to you, It's going to take your bags, You know, you're
• 3:28
  not going to have to say, hey, come help me out, right.
• 3:31
  And and so that's kind of where the future is kind of going with
• 3:34
  AI specifically. And, you know, right now it's
• 3:38
  just the fact that AI is taking up so much of everybody's mind
• 3:44
  and talking and everything on such a simple, basic level of
• 3:50
  AI. It's really going to be
• 3:51
  extraordinary what's going to happen over the next decade or
• 3:54
  so, especially when you take like Elon Musk, you know, he,
• 3:58
  he, he changed out his entire factory instead of doing cars
• 4:03
  that and the Model S and the Model X.
• 4:05
  He's he's going to only be making robots, you know, So this
• 4:10
  version of the next 10 years that we're going to be seeing,
• 4:15
  none of us could ever have imagined that even five years
• 4:19
  ago. You know, I'll, I'll tell you
• 4:21
  this. I've been in tech for for years,
• 4:23
  going to see us every year. You know, you go to Berlin every
• 4:27
  year. I mean, we're seeing everything,
• 4:30
  you know, but the fact that we're moving so quickly, I don't
• 4:35
  think you or I-10 years ago would have ever guessed that we
• 4:39
  would have been so far advanced today than we than we really
• 4:43
  are. So yeah.
• 4:46
  No, I'm sure and I certainly agree that there are immense
• 4:49
  amount of opportunities that this technology evolution
• 4:52
  provides and especially AI and we are at the start of this
• 4:55
  journey. But the two factors that create
• 4:58
  this doubt or this buzz in the media, one is the risk and 2nd
• 5:03
  is the invasiveness. Like you mentioned in your
• 5:06
  example, you come home, your robo comes to you and asks how
• 5:10
  are you, Takes your bag, do you want a coffee?
• 5:14
  How are you feeling today? Now some people find it
• 5:17
  invasive, some people find it their personal space is being
• 5:21
  invaded. You would have heard in
• 5:23
  Australian Open recently there were cameras all around and some
• 5:27
  people, some players complained saying this is too much.
• 5:31
  We do have our private space. Yes, we are commodities to an
• 5:34
  extent. Yes, people love to watch what
• 5:36
  we do, but they cannot be everywhere, They cannot go
• 5:40
  everywhere, and that's the same thing.
• 5:42
  So how do you see this invasiveness of the risk factor
• 5:45
  of technology as well? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's kind of
• 5:48
  hard to say because we're in we're in the age of information,
• 5:52
  right? We're in the age that technology
• 5:54
  is just getting more and more advanced.
• 5:56
  I mean, you know, if you were in 1980s or even early 2000, it's
• 6:01
  very big difference. But today, you know, the fact
• 6:04
  that you have like, there's so much more than just that simple
• 6:08
  example that you gave. But if you go to China, there's
• 6:10
  cameras on every single corner, right?
• 6:13
  They're, they're tracking even the mph or the kilometres per
• 6:18
  hour that you're walking at, You know, so I, I, I would have to
• 6:22
  say this, right, In terms of that, my example was government.
• 6:26
  And obviously you don't want government like taking over
• 6:32
  completely where they're tracking every movement that
• 6:35
  you're doing right. But I, I think in a personal
• 6:39
  level and more of like a consumer based level, you know,
• 6:42
  you're talking about the example the athlete was saying that
• 6:45
  there's just too many cameras. I mean, at the end of the day,
• 6:48
  it's funny because we, we want, we want privacy, but we also
• 6:54
  want to log things, right. So as a like if something, God
• 7:00
  forbid happened to him in into a hotel room or anywhere else, you
• 7:04
  would say where are the cameras? Why aren't there cameras?
• 7:08
  You know, so, but so you're willing in certain aspects to
• 7:11
  give up some privacy. But specifically, you know, I
• 7:16
  think it's the responsibility of the company or the companies,
• 7:19
  whoever releasing these products, you know, they owe it
• 7:22
  to their consumers twofold, right?
• 7:25
  Number one is, hey, if if they're going to if they're
• 7:28
  going to have a lot of cameras, I think it's their
• 7:30
  responsibility to tell you like, Hey, you know, there's cameras
• 7:33
  everywhere. That's number one.
• 7:35
  But then the other part is how do you make sure that all of
• 7:39
  that is secure, right? Because you don't want cameras
• 7:44
  that are going to be hacked. You don't want people to get
• 7:46
  access to cameras if you're if it's showing your entire world.
• 7:49
  And I think, you know, you asked me specifically about the
• 7:54
  example I gave before. We're going to have a robot that
• 7:56
  that's going to be in your home. You know, so really the
• 8:00
  important part is So what are they going to do with that
• 8:03
  footage, right? Is that going to be uploaded to,
• 8:07
  we use Tesla as an example, is that footage going to be
• 8:10
  uploaded to Tesla servers, right?
• 8:12
  So I don't want it to be, right. If I had a robot in my home, I
• 8:18
  wouldn't want it to be. And if Tesla could not ensure
• 8:22
  that it's not going to be uploaded to their servers, then
• 8:25
  I wouldn't, I wouldn't buy that, right?
• 8:27
  It's my responsibility on top of the, the the company that if you
• 8:33
  don't want it, if you don't feel comfortable with it, you're not
• 8:35
  forced to have these products, right?
• 8:38
  You're choosing, you're choosing as a consumer you if you know
• 8:43
  what their security is like and where they're going to be saving
• 8:47
  that footage or anything else. You know, at the end of the day,
• 8:51
  it's it's really up to you. You don't have to buy a robot.
• 8:54
  You don't have to stay in a home or a hotel that has 1000
• 8:59
  cameras. You don't have to go to China if
• 9:01
  you don't want to be videoed, you know.
• 9:03
  So it's, it's kind of twofold. It's the responsibility falls on
• 9:09
  the company or the government or whoever's releasing these
• 9:12
  products. And then the second thing is if
• 9:14
  you don't accept it, you don't have to accept it.
• 9:17
  And if you don't want to accept it, don't buy those products or
• 9:21
  use those services. No, it makes perfect sense.
• 9:24
  In fact, when you mentioned the example of China, they go a bit
• 9:28
  far. I heard that there's social
• 9:29
  scoring also being done on how good, how polite, how socially
• 9:33
  amicable or supporting you are. And that's a yeah, there's a
• 9:38
  score for that. And that has an impact on your
• 9:41
  credit. That has an impact on how you
• 9:42
  consume public services. It's taking it a bit too far.
• 9:45
  And the right about right aspect is having a balance between
• 9:50
  privacy protection and technological innovation and
• 9:54
  giving people the choice. As you said, tell them what is
• 9:57
  being done, tell them where it is stored, tell them how it is
• 10:00
  secured and tell them if they want to use it.
• 10:04
  And if they choose it, then it's entirely up to them.
• 10:06
  So choice is also very important as much as security or
• 10:09
  transparency and privacy are. So all things go combined.
• 10:13
  But I like to link it to the product you have recently
• 10:17
  launched. As an entrepreneur, if I
• 10:19
  understood well, these are smart safes which capture
• 10:23
  fingerprints, which capture, I believe they have a camera,
• 10:27
  probably the capture voice also. So you're also playing in the
• 10:31
  field of technology and also touching on the boundaries of
• 10:35
  what is innovation for sure, but also creating concerns on
• 10:39
  privacy. How do you see that?
• 10:41
  First, tell us what is it before I ask you, how are you
• 10:44
  protecting the privacy or security?
• 10:48
  Yeah. So we, we kind of took a, a
• 10:50
  stagnant category, which is the safe, the safe that you
• 10:55
  basically you store valuables, weapons, watches, whatever you
• 11:00
  want to store in their passports.
• 11:02
  So we took this stagnant product and we added a tonne of
• 11:07
  different technology into there. More specifically, like you
• 11:11
  said, we we're the only safe that has cameras, we're the only
• 11:14
  safe that has a touch screen and we have tamper sensors and we
• 11:22
  basically connect the safe to the mobile phone similar to how
• 11:27
  Ring doorbell is, but for safes, right?
• 11:30
  So that's our product and I'm sorry you, you asked me like how
• 11:34
  are we? How are we private or is that
• 11:36
  what you asked me? I'm sorry, I kind of.
• 11:38
  Got no, no, it's OK. First, I mean, I wanted to
• 11:40
  understand what does this safe do?
• 11:42
  What data does it collect and how does it work?
• 11:44
  That's the primary question I have.
• 11:46
  And of course, I'll ask you how is it protecting privacy and
• 11:50
  security? Yeah.
• 11:51
  So basically, you know, compared to any other safe on any other
• 11:55
  traditional safe, which is 99% of safes that are sold today,
• 12:01
  regular safes do not connect you to they, they keep no activity
• 12:05
  log, they don't connect you to your cell phone.
• 12:08
  There's no control, no visibility.
• 12:10
  You really, you buy this piece of product, which is a big metal
• 12:14
  box and then you kind of forget about it.
• 12:17
  And if something ever happens, you really, you don't know until
• 12:21
  it's too late, right? By the time you figure out that
• 12:24
  you either had a burglary or a theft.
• 12:27
  And the difference between a burglary and a theft is, you
• 12:30
  know, you could have somebody break into your home and then
• 12:33
  you could have somebody who's already in your home steal
• 12:36
  stuff, right? So if you have a housekeeper, a
• 12:39
  nanny, you don't know what they're doing if you're not
• 12:42
  home, right? They may be taking care of your
• 12:44
  children. So the difference is with our
• 12:47
  safe, we've introduced this technology that kind of keeps
• 12:51
  you connected at all, at all times.
• 12:53
  If anything happens, you're connected, right?
• 12:56
  And so we were talking before you asked about like, so how,
• 13:01
  how does it work? The there is no digital keypad
• 13:04
  anymore, right? The reason we don't like a
• 13:06
  digital keypad is because #1 they're not secure #2 the more
• 13:11
  you use it, the more you start seeing the fingertips, the, the
• 13:16
  numbers and the buttons start to deteriorate.
• 13:19
  So if somebody comes into your house, they're going to be able
• 13:21
  to say like, oh, OK, look, number 43 and two were always
• 13:25
  used, you know. So now instead of there being
• 13:29
  100,000 options for, to, to guess their codes, now we only
• 13:33
  need seven tries, you know, so we're, we're trying to make it
• 13:37
  more and more secure. So because of the thing, because
• 13:41
  now we have a touch screen similar to how your iPad is, you
• 13:45
  know, it's almost impossible to guess what the, what, the, what
• 13:50
  the pin code is. So that's one of the things that
• 13:53
  we, we, we've tried to get better at.
• 13:57
  The next thing you we spoke about were fingerprints, right?
• 14:00
  You're, you're saving fingerprints.
• 14:03
  This product of ours is connected to the Internet.
• 14:08
  So that scares. There are some people who, who
• 14:11
  that scares, right? And so we spoke about saving
• 14:15
  fingerprints, saving pin codes, saving video footage.
• 14:21
  Now the important thing that happens on our device is because
• 14:26
  we have this operating system, right?
• 14:28
  And it's not just like a small little PCDA that has like on
• 14:35
  these like a fingerprint sensor or anything like that.
• 14:40
  We have everything that's super encrypted.
• 14:43
  It's saved locally. It doesn't upload to the cloud.
• 14:47
  And everything that kind of happens is locally saved, right?
• 14:50
  So if you have a fingerprint, it's saved locally.
• 14:53
  If you have a PIN code, it's saved locally.
• 14:56
  So instead of like, you know, there's kind of like this fear.
• 15:00
  Whenever something is connected to the Internet, you're going to
• 15:02
  get access to it. And, you know, the thing that we
• 15:06
  do is #1 because it's saved locally #2 because it's all
• 15:09
  encrypted, you know, there's tonnes of different layers of
• 15:12
  security that we offer specifically for the video
• 15:16
  footage, because it was kind of a topic in our earlier
• 15:20
  conversation. But we don't have access to the
• 15:23
  video footage, right? And it's something that we take
• 15:26
  very seriously. You know, you, you, I, I said
• 15:30
  earlier, it's the responsibility of the company and the people to
• 15:33
  kind of, you know, make it known, right?
• 15:37
  And for US, one of the things because I don't trust anybody,
• 15:42
  you know, it's why I, I, I created this company.
• 15:46
  It's why also everything is as secure as it is in the company
• 15:51
  is because I told, I told the developers and the team, I said,
• 15:55
  hey, look, I don't want anybody in this company to have access
• 15:59
  to any of the video footage. You know, I don't want there to
• 16:02
  ever be this, Oh, it was an inside job, you know, so almost
• 16:08
  all of the information that we collect is, is super private,
• 16:13
  super encrypted on our on our servers as well.
• 16:18
  But more specifically, we don't have video, We don't have access
• 16:22
  to video footage. And there's only like one or two
• 16:27
  people who have access to private information like a phone
• 16:31
  number or an e-mail for the people who who own safes from
• 16:35
  us. So yes, I hope I answered that.
• 16:41
  Yeah. So let me synthesise and
• 16:43
  summarise. You're saying there is a safe
• 16:46
  that connects with your phone, but all the fingerprints, your
• 16:51
  voice, your audio, video data that stays on the device.
• 16:55
  So it's not uploaded to Internet, it stays locally, but
• 16:58
  the authentication that it's you from this phone with this e-mail
• 17:02
  registration and that password probably for the app is
• 17:06
  something that is in your systems but that's safely
• 17:09
  secured and even on the local devices it is encrypted and
• 17:13
  secured. Is that what you're saying
• 17:15
  exactly? And the other thing that's
• 17:16
  important is the the way, the way we have like the whole phone
• 17:21
  set up and the accounts that people set up.
• 17:25
  The way that's that's built is the phone and the local device.
• 17:33
  They're two separate things, right?
• 17:35
  They don't talk to each other, right?
• 17:37
  The way it works is they talk, they talk to the cloud.
• 17:40
  The cloud is encrypted. The cloud verifies every piece
• 17:44
  of information that's coming from each item.
• 17:47
  That way there's no such thing as like these two products that
• 17:50
  are talking to each other as an extra layer of security.
• 17:56
  The other thing? Also is I, I wanted to point
• 17:59
  out, you know, we spoke about like there's a microphone,
• 18:04
  there's a motion sensor, there's cameras, all of those
• 18:09
  electronics on the safe can be turned off by the user on the
• 18:14
  safe. You know, so if somebody says
• 18:16
  like, Hey, I don't want the, I don't want the safe to record or
• 18:23
  I don't want to have access from my cell phone to the, the video
• 18:28
  footage of inside my safe, They could turn that off locally and
• 18:33
  it'll supersede anything that happens on the cloud or on, on
• 18:38
  the phone, you know, so there's, it's this safe because it has a
• 18:42
  touch screen, it's extremely customizable and individually
• 18:46
  personalised. So if you want to turn
• 18:48
  everything off, you can turn everything off.
• 18:50
  If you don't even want to connect to the Internet, this
• 18:52
  safe is still an offline safe if you want it to be OK, so.
• 18:56
  It's still a possibility. So if the you lose Internet
• 18:58
  connection, my phone is not working, I'm in a country or in
• 19:02
  a basement where there's no Internet, then it can still
• 19:06
  operate 100. Percent, 100% yeah.
• 19:10
  It's, it's supposed to be used independently.
• 19:12
  The way we thought about it was, hey, if you, if you live in a
• 19:17
  cabin and, and there's no Wi-Fi or there's no Internet, you
• 19:22
  know, you want to be able to use a safe.
• 19:25
  OK, that's nice. The reason I brought this
• 19:28
  example was for our listeners and everyone else who's really
• 19:33
  concerned about technology invasion or technology invasion
• 19:36
  into privacy, saying my privacy is impacted, There are risks,
• 19:41
  there are challenges. Is that even innovative things
• 19:44
  like this are happening? Something as standard as a safe
• 19:47
  which used to stay monolithic, a big iron box as you said, is now
• 19:52
  being digitised and being connected to a phone, being
• 19:54
  connected to a cloud. But OK, I hope, and I trust what
• 19:59
  you say, it's safe, it's encrypted, it's secure, it's
• 20:02
  local. So when done correctly, it can
• 20:05
  protect privacy and limit the changes.
• 20:07
  And most importantly, as you said, and I fully agree with
• 20:11
  that, it's an element of choice. Use it and if you use it, you
• 20:15
  have options. Enable it.
• 20:17
  Internet linkage, enable it, offline enable.
• 20:20
  So there are options to choose, there are options to protect
• 20:23
  yourself and that's where the technology is heading.
• 20:26
  So maybe to synthesise our conversation, what are the two
• 20:29
  or three key points you will say for any company or any
• 20:33
  entrepreneur looking to use technology but in a responsible
• 20:37
  way? Because that's the concern.
• 20:38
  Nobody's against the use of technology.
• 20:40
  Everybody wants to use technology, but the concern is
• 20:43
  the responsibility, the risk, the privacy.
• 20:46
  Those are the concerns. Yeah.
• 20:49
  I mean, look, one of the most important thing that I that I
• 20:52
  like to say is you have to trust the company that you're
• 20:55
  purchasing these products from, right?
• 20:58
  You have to know where they're developing these products from.
• 21:02
  You know, we don't have, our developers are not in China,
• 21:06
  they don't have access to our technology.
• 21:10
  You know, everything was developed in house for us.
• 21:12
  And I think it's very important that whoever is developing the
• 21:15
  technology, you know, you kind of need to make sure that you
• 21:19
  could trust them, right? Because at the end of the day,
• 21:21
  it's the responsibility of those companies.
• 21:24
  And if you're going to decide to purchase these products, you're
• 21:28
  you, you have to you, you have to trust who they are because
• 21:31
  otherwise, you know, like a Google Nest or, or Google,
• 21:38
  what's it called? Like a Google Home or an Alexa.
• 21:41
  I mean, these things are in your home.
• 21:42
  You know, the bigger a company is, the more public they are,
• 21:47
  you know, the scarier sometimes it becomes.
• 21:50
  But for us specifically, I mean, I can only speak for, for, for
• 21:55
  us and my company, but for us, our software, our back end,
• 22:00
  everything is handled in house, you know, so we know, we know
• 22:04
  everything. We, you know, we don't have to
• 22:05
  worry about like, you know, the scariest thing for me is we
• 22:09
  don't, I live in the US and electric cars, Chinese are not
• 22:16
  allowed to export cars from China into the US, right?
• 22:21
  We're, we're not allowed to have them here.
• 22:24
  And for me, you know, it's, I don't think it's because, hey,
• 22:29
  it's 35% cheaper to buy an electric car in China and
• 22:33
  they're going to ruin our economy.
• 22:34
  I don't think that's why. I think it's Simply put, because
• 22:39
  I think if Chinese have cars here in the US and they, they're
• 22:44
  full of tech, they're tracking every single thing that's
• 22:47
  happening. They're listening to every
• 22:49
  conversation that's happening in terms of AI, there's so much
• 22:53
  more, there's so much farther advanced than than the US is.
• 22:56
  And most people in the US won't say that.
• 22:58
  But if you really speak to experts in in the world, they'll
• 23:02
  all admit that, right? And so I think that's what
• 23:05
  really what it comes down to, right?
• 23:07
  You don't want, we don't trust them.
• 23:09
  We don't trust them. We don't know what they're going
• 23:11
  to do. We don't know what they're going
• 23:12
  to use the information for. And so I think it's very
• 23:14
  important that if you're going to buy a product that that has,
• 23:20
  what's it called technology in it, if it's connected, that you
• 23:23
  understand where the technology is being developed and who owns
• 23:28
  the technology. Now that's very well said.
• 23:31
  I think nobody is against technology as long as it's
• 23:34
  trustworthy and it's transparent.
• 23:37
  Trustworthy meaning you can believe you can trust this
• 23:40
  company, this country would not misuse my data.
• 23:44
  That's now trust gets developed over time and then it's
• 23:47
  transparent saying this is what we collect, this is how we
• 23:50
  collect. These are your options.
• 23:51
  You're free to choose if you want to buy or not.
• 23:54
  So and of course there's a drive towards technology, drive to
• 23:58
  towards adoption and that will continue.
• 24:00
  Now based on this conversation, if somebody wants to buy this
• 24:04
  safe or wants to connect with you, what are their options?
• 24:08
  Is this already available in the market?
• 24:10
  It is. But we're sold out at the
• 24:12
  moment. Yeah, we're, we we're expecting
• 24:16
  a little more stock in June and July.
• 24:19
  Right now you could go to our website, www.thespacesafe.com.
• 24:28
  That's space as in the ceiling SPACE and then safe as in the
• 24:33
  metal enclosure. So it's the space
• 24:35
  safe.excuseme.com. If you want to reach out to me
• 24:39
  or anyone on the team, there's a contact form and you can fill it
• 24:43
  out. If it's specific to me that you
• 24:45
  want to ask me questions or anything, just let them know in
• 24:49
  the contact form and the team will forward it to me.
• 24:55
  Yeah, yeah, OK. That's good to hear, we will put
• 25:00
  the link to your website in the what do you say the show notes
• 25:05
  and people can access it. And for now, I wish you happy
• 25:09
  protecting data and belonging of people.
• 25:13
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 25:14
  Appreciate it. Thank you.
• 25:18
  Thank you for joining us on the Fit for Privacy podcast.
• 25:21
  We hope you found today's conversation valuable and
• 25:23
  thought provoking. Subscribe for more insights like
• 25:26
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• 25:28
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• 25:31
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• 25:36
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• 25:39
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• 25:44
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• 25:46
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