Latest / The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke / 139: Katelyn Lehman - Quantum Coherence & The Healing Potential of Scalar Waves

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139: Katelyn Lehman - Quantum Coherence & The Healing Potential of Scalar Waves · The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke

5:57
Meredith Oke: You. Hi, Caitlin. Welcome to the QVC podcast.
6:04
It's so great to meet you.
6:05
Katelyn Lehman: It's so nice to meet you too, Meredith. Thanks
6:08
for having me.
6:09
Meredith Oke: My pleasure. So I heard about you because you
6:13
have a clinic in Los Angeles called the Quantum
6:17
Clinic. I was like, ooh, what's that? So I
6:23
noticed that you're, you know, you've really,
6:26
your approach is, comes from a place of quantum
6:31
coherence. Like when I, when I read your work or
6:34
go to your website, that's a starting place for
6:36
you. Could you just share sort of what that means
6:38
to you and how you explain it to people, the
6:41
concept of quantum coherence?
6:43
Katelyn Lehman: Sure, absolutely. So I think before I dive right
6:46
into that, it's helpful to have a little bit of a
6:48
frame of reference for how I approach this
6:52
emergent paradigm of understanding. And anytime
6:58
we talk about quantum systems, obviously people
7:01
have these, you know, typically one of two
7:04
reactions. They either think we're talking about
7:06
quantum mechanics, you know, and observer, you
7:12
know, wave particle duality, you know, they get
7:14
really granular with it. And there is a lot of
7:17
science coming out that sort of is in that realm,
7:21
but there's also this other realm which is a
7:24
little bit more kind of based in an understanding
7:29
of mind body science. So understanding that that
7:33
awareness or that field, that observer actually
7:36
is operating inside of us. So for me, with my
7:41
background being in clinical psychology, I have a
7:43
doctorate in clinical psychology and was
7:45
practicing here in Los Angeles county for about
7:48
15 years before starting Quantum Clinic. I wanted
7:52
to really, you know, empower people with the
7:56
skills and space to be able to begin to develop
8:01
what's called interoception or that awareness of
8:05
their internal states so that they can create
8:10
greater coherence in their own lives from the
8:13
inside out. Right, right. Because coherence
8:16
though it is, you know, it, it can be defined as
8:19
simply a, it's a degree of correlation in the
8:22
electromagnetic field. Resonances, right.
8:25
Electromagnetism, the spectrum of light beyond
8:29
just visible light. All things emit a, a small
8:35
but measurable electromagnetic field, including
8:38
every cell in our body and every thought. Right.
8:41
Creates a pattern of this information flowing
8:46
throughout our physical body. And so we really
8:50
work at that intersection there of where
8:52
intention and the active cultivation of these
8:58
positive or life affirming emotional states,
9:01
which really then catalyzes or creates the
9:05
conditions for, for physiological coherence. And
9:10
so primarily at Quantum Clinic, we're working
9:13
with heart brain coherence. That's something that
9:16
a lot of people these days are familiar with or
9:19
have heard about. But you Know, they're wanting
9:21
to like, have an experience of it. And so that's.
9:27
Hopefully that answered your question.
9:29
Meredith Oke: Yes, I love. No, that was beautifully expressed.
9:33
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Lehman. I. And
9:38
brought up something that I've been kind of
9:40
grappling with lately. So, you know, I have my
9:44
background, I was an English major and worked as
9:47
a executive coach. So I'm like, by no means a
9:50
scientist. And I was very much in, in the world
9:54
of energy medicine and, and healing for personal
9:57
reasons. And I started to understand some of the
10:03
basics of quantum physics and quantum biology.
10:06
And for some of us, like, for you and for me,
10:10
it's like, oh, there's science that's explaining,
10:15
you know, distance healing, energy healing, all
10:18
of the things. But what I've noticed is that the
10:23
scientists are still managing. And you alluded to
10:25
this in your answer, right. Like, they're still
10:27
managing to somehow acknowledge that it exists,
10:31
but just pull out some practical scientific
10:34
applications and not shift the paradigm at all.
10:39
Katelyn Lehman: Right.
10:39
Meredith Oke: And I think I, I think I thought like, oh, now
10:42
that quantum biology is real, everyone's going to
10:44
understand that we're energetic beings alight.
10:47
And it's not happening. I know I was, I was naive.
10:53
Katelyn Lehman: It is happening. And that's important to honor
10:56
and acknowledge. It's just that our institutions
11:02
and general medical practice. Right. Is very much
11:06
rooted in Cartesian, you know, Western
11:11
understanding of the split between mind and body.
11:15
Right. We are our entire. You know, the
11:23
development of Western medicine was rooted in the
11:26
belief that the body could be viewed as, you
11:29
know, sort of this hermetically sealed object,
11:32
right, that could be tinkered with like a machine
11:38
and, and that, you know, sort of we just left the
11:42
soul or the spirit or the, the, the life force
11:45
with, through which this whole symphony of a body
11:50
being is, is, is activated through. We leave that
11:54
over there to the philosophers and the religious
11:57
scientists and we, we focus exclusively on, on,
12:00
on this kind of narrow view of human experience.
12:04
And that led to a lot of incredible developments
12:07
in Western medicine. And, and certainly it's not,
12:10
you know, let's throw the baby out with the
12:12
bathwater. I think right now we're in a place
12:15
where, and psychology has a big part to play in
12:18
this. Where how can we communicate about the
12:21
emergent paradigm in a way that intuitively makes
12:25
sense to those who have a little bit more of a
12:29
traditional approach to health and human
12:33
functioning.
12:35
Meredith Oke: Yes, yeah, no, definitely. And I think what I've
12:42
been following the field of quantum biology and
12:45
there's the academic part of it is Growing. And
12:53
there are more and more people who are, you know,
12:55
it's not like a, a weird thing anymore. No, but
12:59
when I read their work, it's like entirely
13:03
focused on creating medical devices or
13:06
pharmaceuticals or technology.
13:08
Katelyn Lehman: Technology as, as something as it.
13:11
Meredith Oke: External. And any other repercussions of this,
13:18
you know, of what this science is really telling
13:20
us is, is just being completely ignored. And I
13:23
was like, how can you. And then I was like, oh
13:26
wait, but that's what we did 100 years ago with
13:28
quantum physics. We made computers and bombs and
13:30
didn't shift our materials materialist paradigm
13:33
one inch.
13:34
Katelyn Lehman: Yes. Yeah.
13:36
Meredith Oke: At least in, in the mainstream scientific
13:38
community. And I just see it happening again.
13:39
Katelyn Lehman: So Meredith, we, the. We, the wicked witches of
13:42
the west, must unite. Refuse to allow that to
13:48
happen.
13:49
Meredith Oke: That's what we're doing here. That's the goal.
13:57
Right. Because the other thing I noticed about
13:59
the scientists is that they have absolutely like,
14:02
no, like it's completely out of their wheelhouse
14:06
to communicate their findings to the general
14:09
public. Right. Like, you know, well, that's not.
14:12
Sunlight is so important and blue light is so
14:15
bad. And they're like, oh yeah, no, we know it's
14:17
terrible. They tell us. But there's no. So that,
14:20
that storytelling bridge is what you're saying?
14:23
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah, yeah, that there's a storytelling bridge
14:25
and a communication component to, to
14:29
translational science. Right. Taking the
14:32
traditional academic research and the journal
14:36
articles and then kind of conveying that to a
14:38
public audience or a general audience is a skill
14:41
in and of itself and one that, you know, there
14:45
are more and more thought leaders out there doing
14:47
just that. And I think this conversation is a
14:52
part of that. Right. We all are in a position
14:55
where many of us, especially those who are drawn
14:58
to kind of like the intuitive energy oriented
15:03
modalities or paths to living a more vibrant,
15:08
sustainable, joyous and healthy life. We, we have
15:12
all of this intuitive understanding and because
15:17
we live in a culture that really only validates
15:22
strict empiricism. Right. To, to, to. As the, as
15:27
the metric for determining truth. Right. Or you
15:33
know, suggesting that something could be, quote,
15:35
real. Right. We all feel like we're a bunch of
15:39
quacks when in reality, you know, the emergent
15:44
paradigm is fundamentally different in that it
15:48
allows for the multiplicity of experience to be
15:52
equally valid even when those two experiences
15:56
fundamentally contradict one another. Right.
15:59
That, that, that, that is a part of this journey.
16:04
And as humanity continues to evolve, it's my
16:07
belief that we will ultimately arrive at a place
16:11
where we can, can embrace that diversity of
16:14
Experience and the multiplicity of lived
16:18
realities as, as a strength and not a threat to
16:22
the hegemony of, you know, the way in which our
16:27
culture sort of like perpetuates a particular
16:35
view as, as the gold standard for truth.
16:41
Meredith Oke: Yes, and it's interesting to hear you say that
16:45
because that was kind of where I was landing
16:47
yesterday. I was having a meditative moment and
16:50
it's like, you know, but yeah, it'll be what
16:56
it'll be and we, but the beauty of it is that we
16:58
get to do whatever we want.
17:02
Katelyn Lehman: Here we are.
17:03
Meredith Oke: Here we are. Yeah, we have this technology and we
17:08
can.
17:08
Katelyn Lehman: Well, we are the technology and that's the, you
17:10
know, I think that's to, to your point earlier,
17:13
there's, there's all of this awakening in, you
17:16
know, and I'm someone who art advocates for. We,
17:19
we need a completely new scientific paradigm, a
17:23
set of, you know, we need a new ontological
17:31
foundation upon which our science can, can
17:35
reimagine itself. Right. This, this strictly
17:40
reductionist way of understanding the world
17:43
simply hasn't worked out. And so I'm really
17:46
fascinated by kind of complexity science and
17:50
ecological systems theory in addition to quantum
17:55
mechanics and quantum physics. I think there's a
17:57
really interesting conversation right now that
18:00
ultimately brings us back to some of the very
18:03
ancient conversations that philosophers have been
18:06
having for, for millennia, right? Which is that
18:09
it appears that there's this divine intelligence
18:12
embedded in the fabric of the universe, right? At
18:16
all, across all scales, right? From, from the
18:20
Planck scale, you know, which is the smallest
18:24
scale below which the laws of physics, you know,
18:26
fall apart, right? The Planck scale, bits of
18:29
information to atoms, to, you know, molecules, to
18:33
cells, to organs and bones and bodies. And you
18:38
know, then you keep zooming out and so, so it's
18:40
really about, it really comes back to, I think,
18:47
embracing the reality that there are questions in
18:51
this universe for which there will never be
18:55
finite answers, right? To, to we will there. And
18:58
that's the nature of, that's the nature of
19:00
reality. So how do we, how do we even work with
19:02
that? And what do we, what is it within our power
19:07
to choose to create a world that supports more
19:12
people having access to, you know, these, these
19:18
methods, these techniques that support their well
19:22
being and their health and human functioning,
19:25
right? So when, when we talk about heart, brain
19:27
coherence at Quantum Clinic, really truly it's,
19:30
it's a meditative practice. It's the synchronized
19:33
entrainment of three variables. Respiration,
19:36
heart rate variability and blood pressure. And
19:39
that can be done by connecting, you know, your
19:42
Intention with your breath and your body. But
19:45
really what sets it off, what really elevates
19:47
those coherence scores is, is the cultivation of
19:52
joy or love or gratitude or deep appreciation.
19:56
Right. These, these felt experiences of awe and
20:01
wonder and authenticity. Right. That, that is
20:05
what sets your coherence score apart from just an
20:08
ordinary meditation. And you can really begin to
20:13
practice that. And you know, so people would say,
20:16
well, why would I? Well, because it feels good to
20:19
be in those states certainly. Right. And
20:23
ultimately, you know, it's associated with
20:26
approximately 5,000 different neurochemical and
20:29
neurobiological changes in the body. Right away
20:33
from stress, it's sort of. And into these life
20:38
affirming states which supports a deeper
20:41
integration of trauma, of interpersonal stress,
20:47
of emotional dysregulation, et cetera, et cetera.
20:49
And those are the things that like cause people
20:52
to have premature health, you know, issues like
20:56
to get sick. Right. Is, is, is truly a relational
21:02
dynamic. You know, germ theory has its place,
21:06
don't get me wrong. Like yes, germs are real. I
21:09
have a kid, I have a six year old. So like I know
21:11
germs are real, but it's also germs at school
21:16
with his friends, right? Like, you know, like, so
21:19
it's, there's, there's, you know, so again it's
21:24
not, we don't have to throw out the old paradigm
21:27
in order to create space for the new. And that's
21:31
really, I think an important part of the larger
21:33
conversation here is like how, how do we, how do
21:36
we like come together and move through this with
21:41
joy and love and respect for one another?
21:45
Meredith Oke: Yes. Yeah, I love that. And, and you know, I see
21:51
this science because sometimes I have people,
21:53
they're like, you know, they're like, what do you
21:55
mean? What do you mean that there's finally
21:57
evidence for quantum effects than human systems.
22:00
Like of course, of course, we are quantum beings.
22:03
What do we need that science for? But I see it as
22:07
a bridge, as you're saying, as we're all in a
22:10
slightly different place, let's say ontologically
22:15
and each step forward it builds a bridge that it
22:20
could be, we could use in our own unique way to
22:23
get to our next place.
22:25
Katelyn Lehman: 100%.
22:26
Meredith Oke: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it would be wonderful to
22:30
have a medical device that treats cancer with
22:33
light instead of chemotherapy. Like that would be
22:35
great. I'm not well.
22:37
Katelyn Lehman: The FDA just approved a sound based device.
22:42
Meredith Oke: Oh, wonderful.
22:43
Katelyn Lehman: That ablates cancer tumors using sound waves for
22:47
surgery.
22:48
Meredith Oke: Yeah, that's wonderful to hear because I've had
22:51
several People on the podcast, brilliant people
22:53
who are like, oh, I did experiments since as an
22:55
undergrad and I was killing cancer cells with
22:57
sound or light or whatever. I'm like, what
22:59
happened? Like, I don't know. No one was
23:01
interested. I moved on.
23:03
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah.
23:04
Meredith Oke: Yeah, I'm glad to hear that.
23:06
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah. I mean we at Quantum Clinic, you know,
23:10
sound ultras think of ultrasound, right, to, to
23:13
create a visual image. It's sound waves being
23:16
passed through the body that then processes produ
23:18
are able to produce an image of structures inside
23:21
of the body. That's how we look at babies in
23:23
utero, right, Is through the application of non
23:26
audible sound wave frequencies. But, but the, the
23:31
whole realm of audible sound actually is, is an,
23:38
a very interesting area of study and, and one
23:41
that we're involved in at Quantum Clinic. I'm
23:43
sorry, my cat is very excited about being here
23:45
right now. She's rubbing her face up on the
23:50
computer. Come here, sweetie.
23:52
Meredith Oke: Oh, we love a good cat visit.
23:54
Katelyn Lehman: Hey, so, so audible frequencies, right? Sounds
23:59
that support autonomic nervous system regulation
24:05
integration. Think of solfeggiotones or binaural
24:10
beats, right? These are, these are compositions
24:15
of frequencies that support, you know, again,
24:20
sort of an ordering effect within the body,
24:23
right? Because when you apply sound to let's say
24:28
water, right. Of which most of the body is
24:31
comprised of water molecules, so you apply sound
24:36
to water, it has an ordering effect, a
24:38
structuring effect. It creates resonant patterns
24:42
or geometric shapes in the water itself. And as
24:47
that is is passing through the body and beyond
24:52
being a relaxing experience which many people
24:55
associate like a sound bath or a sound healing
24:59
session with a state of relaxation, you know,
25:03
what, what, what we're seeing is that it promotes
25:07
again this quantum coherence. It has a, it has a,
25:10
an organizing effect on our physiology and our
25:16
psychology in such a way that it allows for the,
25:21
the flow of energy and information in the body in
25:24
a way that's more fluid, that's less stagnant. It
25:28
can help move energetic blocks. It can help open
25:34
up parts of our experience that we hadn't
25:37
previously felt or had access to. And again, this
25:41
is why in my opinion, it's so important that we
25:45
involve the psychological sciences in this, you
25:49
know, communication about this paradigm. Because
25:52
you know, if you think of, of, of the, the
25:55
totality of the quantum system that, that we are
25:59
perceiving and experiencing through, you know,
26:03
our lives. Right, well, well how is that then
26:06
communicated to us? Right? Well, it's through
26:09
sensation, image, feeling and thought. Those are
26:13
innately psychological factors. There's no
26:16
there's no feeling state in the, the brain
26:20
doesn't feel, the brain doesn't see. It's
26:23
interpreting all of this information at the speed
26:25
of light. And we are subjectively experiencing
26:29
that through our field of awareness. Right. So
26:35
awareness then becomes the, the healing mechanism
26:39
as our awareness expands or contracts because it
26:44
will do both over the lifespan. Right. As it, as
26:48
it continues to evolve and, and develop as we, as
26:53
we go through life. Well then you, you, you
26:57
become more capable of seeing the world
27:00
differently or perhaps others seeing the world
27:04
more rigidly, you know, and, and so then it's,
27:07
it, it's about this dynamic interplay between
27:10
rigidity and flexib and flexibility and obviously
27:14
flexibility and rigidity, both, neither are
27:18
perfect balance. You have to have boundaries on
27:21
one hand and openness on the other. But you know,
27:24
how we navigate that then becomes the dance of
27:27
life. And what a beautiful dance it is.
27:32
Meredith Oke: Yes. So talk to me about the concept of scalar
27:38
waves and how they play into this because you
27:42
have a device and this has come up a lot and I
27:47
haven't talked about it on here, so I'd love for
27:49
you to explain.
27:50
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah, so scalar waves are what's called non
27:53
Hertzian waves. And there's a significant debate
27:57
in the scientific community. Community as to what
28:00
exactly is a scalar wave. I actually wrote about
28:03
this in a book that I wrote that's still
28:06
unpublished, but maybe one day it will, it will
28:09
come out. And, and, and so it's, you know, people
28:16
have different definitions for what is it. But
28:19
the properties of a scalar wave that make it
28:21
unique is that, it's my understanding. And again,
28:24
I'm not a physicist. I'm, my background is in
28:28
clinical psychology. So I, I will do, I will have
28:32
this conversation to the best of my ability.
28:34
Meredith Oke: We are having, we are telling the story of the
28:36
science.
28:37
Katelyn Lehman: Yes, yes, exactly. We're not giving it, I'm not,
28:40
I'm not saying I have all.
28:41
Meredith Oke: Okay, people.
28:44
Katelyn Lehman: But, but these waves don't behave like
28:49
traditional waves in, in so much as they, when
28:51
they, when they're moving through space and they,
28:55
and they come up against physical matter, so say
28:59
a human body or a wall or whatever, they're
29:04
perceived to pass through it. So they're
29:06
omnipresent. Right. They're, they're, it's, it's
29:10
everywhere. It's almost like. Okay, you know,
29:13
and, and our kind of Newtonian physics,
29:18
understanding classical, you know, classical laws
29:21
of physics don't, doesn't really hold the
29:26
complexity of that. Like what, what do you mean?
29:28
Where, well, where does it. So it's almost like
29:31
you have to have a new, new framework in order
29:34
to, to understand this, which is why I really am
29:40
resonate with the, the concept or the idea that's
29:45
been posited of, you know, the holographic
29:50
principle that, you know, each atom contains
29:54
everything, all of the information from the
29:58
universe itself, right? Like that, every, the
30:03
smallest bit contains all, right? And so if you
30:08
think of the world in that way, well then maybe
30:10
these scalar waves are merely just the
30:14
communication between and among all of those
30:19
points. People may be familiar with the type of
30:24
art called pointillism, right, where each, you
30:29
stand far away from the painting and it looks
30:32
like a beautiful landscape, right? There's that
30:36
famous one of the guy holding the umbrella, the
30:38
couple walking through the park or something. I
30:40
forget who did it anyway, and then you come up to
30:43
the painting and you see it's actually just a
30:45
bunch of little dots, right? So if you think of
30:51
scalar energy as being this pluripotentiality,
30:56
right, perhaps like the Vedic traditions or the
30:59
Eastern philosophical traditions have talked
31:01
about, you know, the universe is, is the yin and
31:05
yang, the potential, right. I, I like to think of
31:08
scalar energy as, as the activation or the
31:12
awareness of that pure potentiality that exists
31:16
in every point in the field. Right. And that,
31:21
that then would make sense why these waves don't
31:24
stop at matter because matter is also just
31:28
another point on, in the larger tapestry of
31:32
existence. Right? So when, when we talk about,
31:38
you know, what it, okay, what is. So that's,
31:40
that's more of an abstract philosophical
31:42
conversation of what is scalar energy? The
31:44
ultimate, you know, response is well, we don't
31:47
really know. It sort of doesn't quite fit our
31:50
traditional models of understanding. But the best
31:53
way that I know how to describe it is that it,
31:56
that it's the activation of a, of some sort of
31:59
latent potentiality that exists. Right? Okay. And
32:04
then there, there are technologies, emergent
32:07
technologies coming on the market, and we have
32:11
one of those, there are many which, which uses
32:17
coils, hand wound copper coils that are
32:22
configured in a particular geometric patterning.
32:28
There are three coils and inert noble gases in
32:33
plasma tubes. So that then when the device is
32:37
turned on, purports to, again as I mentioned
32:41
earlier, sort of have a structuring effect. It
32:44
activates the potentiality within the field
32:49
generated in and around the technology itself
32:55
and, and audible frequencies are passed through
32:58
that, administered through headphones and a
33:01
vibrating waterbed. And the feedback that we get
33:05
from clients is that it's very supportive of any
33:08
kind of autonomic dysregulation. So any anxiety,
33:12
stress, emotional overwhelm. We get a lot of
33:15
people who deal with chronic inflammatory
33:18
diseases like fibromyalgia or there are lots of
33:25
them these days, people dealing with
33:28
comorbidities around pain, pain in the body, and
33:34
just kind of fog, Right. Mental fog, and that
33:38
they have this experience which lasts for about
33:41
45 minutes. They're exposed to these sound
33:44
frequencies in the body and through the ears, and
33:48
they're in this field, this structured field, and
33:52
it, and it brings the potentiality, the electric,
33:55
the electromagnetic current in the body up to its
33:59
fullest potential. Right. So it's like it wakes
34:03
things up, so to speak. And again, kind of tying
34:07
it into the realm of like, what is this quantum
34:11
world we're talking about? Well, it's the realm
34:13
of sensation, image, feeling or thought. And so
34:16
as people are having this experience of laying on
34:19
the bed and being. Being supported by a clinician
34:21
who, who orients them to the space and encourages
34:25
them to set an intention for their healing. You
34:28
know, we, we are very. At quantum clinic, we're
34:30
attuned to the relational and human qualities of
34:35
healing. Very much so. So that's an important
34:39
part of this. Right. And, and that often then
34:43
that process of connecting to one's intention or
34:46
whatever will evoke a particular type of journey.
34:50
Right. While you're receiving these frequencies,
34:53
some people go to the distant past, rate of their
34:57
souls, previous incarnations. Some people stay
35:04
very much in the body. Some people drift into a
35:07
state of sort of kind of sleep. Right. It really
35:10
depends on, you know, what's coming up for the
35:13
person or the individual. But what we've noticed
35:17
is that people then, when they exit that service
35:20
tend to feel much more embodied, present,
35:23
connected, grounded, less pain, less
35:26
inflammation. And. Yeah, that. I think, we think
35:30
that's a net positive for humanity right now.
35:34
Meredith Oke: Yes, definitely. And I, yeah, I love these, these
35:42
technologies that are acknowledging this other
35:46
layer to existence that our traditional
35:49
understanding doesn't fully teach us, is there?
35:53
Yeah, because we're so, we're opening to the
35:56
healing, but we're also opening to seeing the
35:59
world this way, which will remain as part of your
36:04
life experience even after you've left the
36:06
session, I would imagine.
36:07
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
36:13
Meredith Oke: I was talking to someone, they. And they told me
36:17
a story about one of these like, scalar devices.
36:22
And the person was having like an energy reading
36:26
done of their home by an intuitive. And so the,
36:30
the intuitive was like reading the energy of the
36:32
house to see I, whatever, we, whatever you would
36:36
do that for. And yeah, she was like, oh, there's,
36:40
there's something, there's the frequency is much
36:44
higher like in this area, like in this closet or
36:48
there's something that's very much higher. And
36:50
they were like, oh, that's where we have our
36:52
scalar machine. That's where we have our scalar
36:55
device turned on because they had it like next to
36:58
their WI fi router or something. They put the
37:01
scalar there to balance it out. And that was the,
37:04
I heard that story. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm
37:08
curious about this now.
37:09
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah.
37:10
Meredith Oke: How I mean it's just like a whole universe
37:16
happening that like right next to us and it's
37:20
just crazy to think about.
37:22
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, when we're, when
37:26
we're talking about, you know, intuitive energy
37:31
reading, you know, not non local awareness, all
37:35
of these things, you know, the quantum realm
37:42
really does, at least in part, it's my belief
37:47
provider, the basis for those experiences. Right.
37:52
Like I, I, I, you know, it's funny, I hesitate to
37:56
talk too much about it because again, like we
37:59
live in a, in a very complex time in human
38:02
history and I think that, that women in
38:06
particular, but also men who have practiced
38:12
indigenous ways of knowing and, and this kind of
38:16
deeper unified field which we are all a part of,
38:22
right. We're a node in the larger infinite field
38:26
of energy and information. And, and if we accept
38:32
that consciousness is the floor or the, the
38:35
ground of existence, if you will, which expresses
38:40
itself through biological adaptations and
38:44
geological processes and all of these things,
38:47
well then at least hypothetically it is possible
38:53
to know things in ways that are not limited by
39:02
our present time space continuum. Right. That
39:09
there is a way in which we can access that deeper
39:13
intelligence, that deeper knowing. And that
39:18
example you shared of your friend or whomever,
39:20
you know, having an intuitive do an energy
39:22
reading and whoa, lo and behold, like they
39:25
actually said there is a closet over there that
39:27
like is pinging my sensors, right. That, that,
39:31
that it's becoming, it's becoming more and more
39:35
difficult to dismiss those because of the
39:38
preponderance of evidence that those things are.
39:42
Well, yeah, there's like this thing here that
39:44
I'm, that I'm running right now. Like yeah, of
39:46
course there would, you would notice that. Like
39:49
so, and, and you know, remote healings, distance
39:54
healings, telepathic communication between hearts
39:59
and souls. These, these are all things that, that
40:03
would get you burned at the stake for heresy at
40:07
many times throughout human history. And so I
40:10
think, you know, Rightfully so many women,
40:13
especially those of us, you know, out here doing
40:18
the good work. Right. Like, are hesitant to. To
40:23
speak about in greater depth or. Or outside of
40:26
circles that feel really, really safe to do so.
40:30
Right. Because it does at times border on the
40:34
miraculous, but it's also becoming more. More
40:37
cultural, culturally accepted. Right. Like the
40:40
Autism Files or the. Did you hear. Did you watch
40:42
that podcast or.
40:44
Meredith Oke: Oh, the Telepathy tapes.
40:46
Katelyn Lehman: Thank you. Yes, the Telepathy tapes. You know,
40:50
they're primarily interviewing people on the, on
40:52
the spectrum. And, and so, you know, that's like,
41:00
again, as we're, as we're moving forward as a
41:03
collective, as a species, I do think this moment
41:06
in time calls for, you know, sort of an
41:10
acknowledgement and a recognition of ancient
41:13
truths to be re remembered by those of us who are
41:17
here now, and that we should be courageous in
41:22
communicating about those experiences. Within
41:27
reason.
41:28
Meredith Oke: Yes. Because I'm glad you brought the Telepathy
41:31
tapes up because, I mean, it was a profoundly
41:35
beautiful piece of art that she made with that
41:41
podcast. But what really landed for me was how
41:47
popular it was. I think for a couple of weeks it
41:51
was the number one podcast in the United States,
41:54
if not more places, which is like tens of
41:59
millions of downloads.
42:01
Katelyn Lehman: Well, so.
42:02
Meredith Oke: And I. What you're saying is like, we're. Yeah,
42:04
it be. It was above Joe Rogan for a while there.
42:08
So it's like we're so timid to.
42:12
Katelyn Lehman: Say it, but everybody wants to hear it. Yeah,
42:16
yeah, but. Because even Joe Rogan, like, I mean,
42:19
you know, who's. He's the number one. Right.
42:21
Like, he talks about that stuff.
42:24
Meredith Oke: Yeah. And then he had her on his podcast, the.
42:27
The producer, which I thought was lovely.
42:30
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah.
42:32
Meredith Oke: Yes. And those are the moments because, yeah, I
42:37
do. I do think there is that current of fear. I
42:40
do, you know, and I see it. You know, I had a
42:45
lovely scientist on here who. He's like an
42:48
astrophysicist who got really involved in his
42:50
retirement, looking at infrared light and how it
42:54
impacts.
42:57
Katelyn Lehman: Our bodies.
42:57
Meredith Oke: And how it goes through our bodies. And it's like
43:00
such cool. He's doing such cool research, like,
43:03
just at home because he's retired. And at the
43:07
end, I was like, just very gently, like, oh, has
43:10
this research sort of changed your view of the
43:14
world or the universe? And he was like, oh, I
43:17
don't know what you're talking about. Of course
43:20
not. This is science. I was like, okay, okay,
43:23
okay. So, yeah, so it's sort of like, I do think
43:30
for men, especially in a certain field, there
43:32
they are also very protective of their
43:35
reputations and don't want to be associated with
43:37
the woo woo stuff.
43:39
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah, yeah.
43:40
Meredith Oke: But then, yeah, I've been finding more and more
43:42
it's like when you, you, you put it out there and
43:46
it lands like with people where I never would
43:48
have expected it to land.
43:49
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm going to say one more thing
43:52
about, about this paradigm because, and, and
44:00
specifically as, as it interacts with gendered
44:08
norms, personality types and psychopathology,
44:13
right? Because, just because we now have the
44:19
language to back up intuitive understanding,
44:24
alternate modes of knowing with science, right?
44:29
As science is described in a very narrow frame of
44:33
understanding, again. Right. That doesn't mean
44:38
that those things were not true or throughout
44:42
human history. It just means that we now have the
44:45
language to validate it. Right. But men, I'm
44:51
gonna say it, men have been systematically
44:56
invalidating these experiences which are
45:00
traditionally conceived of and, and known more by
45:03
women, right. That, that they have systematically
45:09
undercut and invalidated, invalidated those modes
45:14
of knowing. And that still happens today. Right.
45:20
Just because someone is a notable figure in a
45:24
particular scientific discipline does not mean
45:28
that they're also not enacting profoundly
45:31
narcissistic, ego driven, selfish, you know, self
45:39
protective defense mechanisms, right. As a way
45:43
to, to, to, you know, compensate for adversity
45:50
they perhaps experienced in childhood. And that
45:52
those, those patterns of harm that exist in the
45:57
interpersonal worlds, right? The relationships
46:00
that, that evolve between peoples, right. Like
46:05
none of this quantum biology stuff changes that.
46:14
Right. The harm that's perpetuated the, the
46:17
pathology that's enacted right over millennia is
46:23
still operating in the present. Just because
46:26
somebody studies this area doesn't make them
46:31
capable of, of empathy. And that's a harsh
46:37
reality that we have to face, you know,
46:40
especially as women in our world.
46:47
Meredith Oke: Yes. And I, I appreciate you articulating that
46:51
because that is, does happen and is happening.
46:58
And it's really disconcerting for those of us who
47:04
see it from the perspective that we're talking
47:07
about because you have people using the same
47:10
language and it's like, you know, I was talking
47:13
to someone and she's like, how can so and so and
47:17
so and so be talking about the quantum field, be
47:20
talking about biophysics and quantum, quantum
47:23
biology and not understand that they're part of
47:27
their behavior is affecting their words, the way
47:31
they treat people.
47:33
Katelyn Lehman: Yep.
47:33
Meredith Oke: And it doesn't, it's like exactly what you just
47:39
described is happening.
47:40
Katelyn Lehman: Right. And that's been happening for millennia.
47:44
Right. People usurping spiritual language and now
47:47
they're usurping the, the, the language du jour,
47:51
right, which is this unified field and, and love
47:54
and light and all of that stuff there. It's a,
47:57
it's a form of, you know, misappropriation of
48:01
spiritual teachings for, for their own self
48:07
interest and to assert dominance and power and
48:11
control in interpersonal relationships. Right. So
48:16
that, that is, is still, I would argue, like a
48:21
much more critical imperative for us to address
48:26
collectively. And again, it's all, it's all
48:29
happening simultaneously. But you know, people,
48:34
people are people and we all have these
48:37
incredibly self destructive and malicious and,
48:41
and base kind of instincts within us. And
48:46
ultimately where, where, where it lands for me is
48:48
falling back on kind of traditional Buddhist
48:52
principles of, of, you know, not doing harm.
48:58
Right? How, how do I take these teachings and
49:02
apply them in my own life and in such a way that
49:05
I am not contributing to greater harm? And when I
49:11
am confronted by adversity or, you know, whatever
49:16
the case may be, okay, am I a courageous and
49:21
competent adult who is capable of showing up in
49:30
ways that is respectful, that is reciprocal, and
49:36
that is grounded in the creation of a shared
49:41
understanding of reality? Because as we move away
49:45
from having a rigid, you know, finite, concrete
49:50
understanding of reality towards a more
49:52
pluralistic or, you know, multiple realities can
49:59
coexist, then it becomes about our ability to
50:04
navigate that, to negotiate that, to have the
50:08
dialogue, that. That creates a foundation for a
50:12
shared consensus. Right. That's, you know,
50:16
that's, I think, why we're in such a mess
50:19
geopolitically and culturally right now. Why so
50:23
strong men are taking power across the globe?
50:26
Because people are like, what is this? They don't
50:29
know what to do with all of this. The polarity,
50:33
the splitting, the perceptual fragments that are
50:39
manifesting on the larger scale. So I'm not sure
50:44
that I did justice to that talking point, but I
50:48
think it's an important one to continue to
50:51
explore as we, as we grow together, you know?
50:55
Meredith Oke: Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you brought it
50:57
up. And you know, for me it's like remembering it
51:02
starts with it within me. 100 and I can talk
51:06
about quantum entanglement. It's like, what am I
51:08
contributing to that field? And if we all, you
51:12
know, we all started there. Yeah. Caitlin, this
51:16
has been so delightful. Please let us know where
51:18
people can find you.
51:20
Katelyn Lehman: Sure, yeah.
51:21
Meredith Oke: Continue there.
51:22
Katelyn Lehman: Yeah, yeah.
51:23
Meredith Oke: Their journey.
51:24
Katelyn Lehman: Check it out. So you can find me on Instagram
51:27
@Doctor Caitlin Layman or Facebook or, you know,
51:31
anywhere, anywhere you find your people. And you
51:36
can check out quantumclinic.com and I'll send you
51:42
a link to my online course that maybe you can
51:44
include in the show notes.
51:46
Meredith Oke: Sure, I would love to. So, yeah, that's Dr.
51:48
Caitlin and it's Caitlin. K A T E L Y N Lehman L
51:53
E H M A N this was delightful. And we will have
51:58
to do it again sometime.
51:59
Katelyn Lehman: Wonderful. Thanks so much, Meredith.