Latest / IB Unplugged / Designing Learning Environments: UDL & ATL in the IB w/ Dianne Blackburn

Transcript

Designing Learning Environments: UDL & ATL in the IB w/ Dianne Blackburn · IB Unplugged

0:00
Welcome to IB Unplugged, a Kognity podcast for IBDP educators,
0:05
that tackles your submitted challenges and questions by connecting you with
0:08
experts and peers who share their ideas and stories from real classrooms.
0:13
Whether you're a seasoned educator or new to the IB world, each bi weekly episode
0:18
and guest aims to equip you with practical tips and positive inspiration,
0:22
helping you teach with more confidence, creativity, and joy.
0:26
So whether you're walking your dog or commuting to school, hit play and join
0:29
a community of educators ready to learn, laugh, and thrive in your IB journey.
0:35
Hi everybody!
0:35
Welcome to another episode of IB Unplugged.
0:38
Today we've got Dianne Blackburn and we're going to be talking about
0:41
inclusive learning for student wellbeing, universal design
0:44
for learning, and approaches to learning in IB classrooms.
0:48
Dianne has this rich background and,
0:51
started in creative industries and then got into education
0:55
and then has since been spending quite a bit of time leading workshops
0:58
on universal design for learning, going into schools, spending time
1:01
all across the world, helping schools implement this idea.
1:04
And I think what you can really gain from this episode coming up
1:07
here is talking about ways that we can reach all learners
1:11
without having to do like a massive change to our practice.
1:14
Really, it's a bit of a mindset shift in terms of who's kind of in control
1:18
of the classroom and how can I provide more options.
1:21
So some really exciting things coming up here with Dianne.
1:23
Yeah I think that what you're really going to take out of this episode
1:27
is that yes, UDL can feel quite daunting, but Dianne talks about it
1:32
in such this infectious way of it's so positive for the students.
1:37
And she sees such positive impacts with the students
1:40
and it doesn't take massive heavy lifting to get started.
1:43
It's you're already doing some of these things.
1:45
How can you be a bit more thoughtful?
1:47
How can you tweak things a little bit to really have,
1:51
a greater classroom experience for
1:54
not just some of the students, but all of the students.
1:57
So with that, I'm excited about this episode.
2:00
And let's bring on Dianne.
2:08
Hi, Dianne.
2:08
Welcome to IB Unplugged.
2:10
Hi there. Lovely to see you today, Courtney.
2:12
Hi, John. Hi, Dianne. So glad you're here.
2:14
So I want to get started here with our first warm up question.
2:18
And just to dive in a little bit about your experience.
2:20
Could you share why you've decided to pursue a career in education?
2:25
Oh, wow.
2:25
So, like many people, this is not my first career path.
2:31
I've had 2 or 3 different career paths before.
2:34
So I started actually in fashion and marketing.
2:38
So I come from a creative background and I had a lovely career, for many years.
2:43
And, we moved abroad.
2:46
We moved to Spain.
2:47
I moved into an international setting at that time.
2:51
I suddenly had a desire to teach.
2:53
I don't know where it came from. At a very young children.
2:57
But it was kind of.
2:58
I could only describe it as a yearning to teach
3:02
a yearning to work with young people.
3:04
And I was really exploring my creative side at that time
3:07
because I was, a house doctor, doing lots of interior design.
3:11
I've sort of moved on.
3:12
So, I trained up as a teacher and,
3:16
was very lucky to find myself in an international school
3:19
pretty quickly and found an IB school.
3:23
And I think for many of us who have worked in the IB
3:27
I think when you find an IB school, it's all that teaching
3:30
has ever meant to me really.
3:32
And that was the very beginning.
3:34
I started off as a visual arts teacher, in an IB school teaching
3:38
MYP one through five, and, was there for quite a few years
3:43
and had the most amazing time working with young people
3:47
from all kinds of backgrounds, developing their skills,
3:50
developing their understanding of the world around them,
3:53
and really connecting, to the world
3:56
and really understanding the importance, of art in the world around us.
4:00
So for me, it was just the most beautiful connection
4:03
and a wonderful start to my, my learning journey in education.
4:07
What an excellent way to kind of get into.
4:09
I love the way I describe it.
4:10
I had a yearning, a yearning for education and for teaching young people.
4:14
I think that's really beautiful.
4:15
You know, my my next question was going to be why international education?
4:18
But it sounds like that's kind of what drew you right away.
4:20
You're kind of in this new country and
4:22
kids coming into it and just seeing a nice a nice flow into that.
4:26
Now, Dianne, I know that, you know, we're going to focus quite a bit
4:28
on universal design for learning and ATL’s and that sort of thing.
4:32
And that's kind of a big part of what you're doing these days.
4:35
So I wonder maybe just sort of the next intro question might be,
4:38
what's the best part of the most rewarding part of your job these days?
4:42
I always describe myself as spinning several plates, like 12 plates at once.
4:46
John can’t relate. We all do.
4:48
Yeah, we all do that as educators, don't we?
4:51
But, you mentioned international education.
4:53
I actually work quite a lot in the UK as well.
4:57
And I work with, UK state schools
5:00
that are IB schools, and that's been a project
5:02
I've been working on for the last five years.
5:05
And those schools have,
5:07
taken IB programs in,
5:10
so the MYPD, PCP, PYP schools,
5:13
and they've also approached me to work on universal design for learning.
5:19
And those schools.
5:21
There's I think altogether
5:22
there's about, I don't know, we must be upwards of 70 or 80.
5:26
It's a huge group.
5:28
And we've definitely grown the MYP community
5:30
because we have a conference every year.
5:33
But we've grown inclusive practice in those schools, but also IB education.
5:37
So it's not just those international schools
5:40
that I work with, which I'm very privileged to,
5:42
to work with through the IB and through my consultancy.
5:44
But also,
5:46
I'm saying great,
5:47
really saying great difference that they are and IB education
5:50
and UDL can make to students who come from very diverse backgrounds,
5:55
who are often students who, have, who've had to come to the UK
6:00
because they've been displaced in their own country.
6:03
So you know, language learning becomes very important for them,
6:07
students from very difficult, challenging backgrounds.
6:10
And we're just seeing how that is transforming their lives.
6:14
So, that's something I'm very, very passionate about.
6:17
And I'm seeing that
6:18
in other educational contexts as well, in international contexts.
6:22
But yeah, that diversity of, of the schools that I work with,
6:25
I think is just, an absolute blessing if it's something that,
6:29
you know, really gets me up in the morning because you never know what,
6:32
what kind of context you're going to work in.
6:34
And just the difference that we can make is just incredible.
6:37
So I feel very, very blessed.
6:39
I can feel your passion kind of oozing right away.
6:41
And I'm excited for this.
6:43
Now, you know, because,
6:44
you know, we want to talk about inclusive learning for student wellbeing.
6:46
We want to talk about universal,
6:48
universal design for learning the approaches to learning
6:51
how we as educators can really incorporate young people into the classroom and
6:54
make sure that everybody feels included and has the chance to learn really well.
6:57
So, I'm I'm excited for this.
6:59
What a what a wonderful preamble here.
7:03
So for our first segment, we're going to talk about
7:06
universal design learning and really connecting that to student wellbeing.
7:10
But the kind of first step to make sure
7:12
everybody's on the same page is could you describe UDL
7:15
and why does it matter specifically in the IB context?
7:19
So I came across the universal design for learning.
7:22
Many years ago, before the IB, was really using
7:26
that as their preferred approach to inclusive practice.
7:29
And when I discovered universal design for learning,
7:32
I just thought, what a great fit and what an easy fit for our educators.
7:37
I mean, I have never met a teacher yet who says to me,
7:41
you know what, I've got lots of time.
7:43
No one ever has enough time in teaching.
7:45
We're always it's the commodity that we're not rich in.
7:49
But universal design for learning.
7:52
When I first discovered it, I thought,
7:54
this is going to actually make it easier to reach more students.
7:59
It's going to allow me time
8:02
to plan and to meet those students,
8:05
but actually it's going to reduce my workload whilst also,
8:10
getting better results.
8:12
And this is kind of what I always start my PD with.
8:16
Because if you if you have a group of teachers who are really time poor
8:20
and are just doing their very, very best to reach those learners in their classroom
8:25
that, you know, sometimes we just don't catch them when we go home
8:28
and I think, you know, I know that learner didn't engage with the learning today.
8:32
I know I left them behind.
8:33
That's not what we want to do.
8:35
And for me, universal design for learning is an approach
8:38
where we allow for student agency and we allow students to
8:43
be advocates for their own learning and to make choices in their learning
8:48
and also to to go on a journey with our learners
8:51
to learn more about them, what interests them, what excites them.
8:56
And for me, that is is part of that the key to universal design for learning.
9:01
Because by doing that, we can reach more learners,
9:04
because we can offer them choice
9:06
and we can offer the opportunity for them to advocate for the ways
9:09
they'd like to learn, the ways they'd like to show what they know.
9:13
And it's often a shift in a mindset in our teaching practice.
9:17
But once we've made that shift, we can look at the differentiation
9:21
that we might already offer and actually just be able
9:24
to give that more towards the learners in the classroom.
9:29
And of course, universal design for learning allows us to reach more learners.
9:33
So we think about teaching to the edges
9:36
that children that we often find most difficult to reach.
9:39
The ones who are perhaps, in different contexts, we call them different things.
9:43
But now the students who will finish the task first will need to create a
9:48
a deeper task for them,
9:50
because they're going to finish much quicker than some students.
9:52
But then also the students that have, some sometimes a diagnosed difference,
9:57
a way of learning, but also the students that haven't even registered.
10:02
So we try and work to those edges.
10:05
But universal design for learning allows for all learners and those in between
10:09
to be able to really have agency and choice.
10:13
Because yeah, sometimes our learners, let's say we've got a student
10:16
who's come in in the morning who really doesn't,
10:19
let's say they've had an argument at home with a sibling and they've had no sleep.
10:23
And we would just provide for them what we always did,
10:26
but they actually might really benefit from some scaffolds
10:30
and supports, maybe some visuals to go with some text.
10:33
And by offering that agency and choice,
10:35
that student can go and take that choice and I will just do much better.
10:39
So this is how we start and start to think about
10:42
some of those basics and universal design for learning.
10:45
How we also engage in content and process and product and assessment
10:51
and just allow students to to choose through that learning journey.
10:55
If I'm new to all of this, and I'm going into and I'm learning from
10:58
an educator who has really implemented GDL into their way
11:01
of structuring their classes and their teaching,
11:04
what are some of the more noticeable differences that you do see?
11:09
And that you do pick up on?
11:10
Yeah, it's really interesting actually, because in the UK context,
11:15
we had a last visit in one of
11:16
the schools and in the report that Ofsted produced,
11:21
they noted universal design for learning and they said what they noticed,
11:25
in that classroom was they could see from the classroom less
11:27
that there was a diverse range of students there that normally would have had,
11:32
perhaps someone working with them or specific scaffolds and supports.
11:36
But what they saw in that classroom was that,
11:39
students had agency and choice, that they were choosing different ways
11:42
of working,
11:43
maybe on different stations, but also that they could advocate for themselves.
11:47
And there was someone else in the classroom they're supporting,
11:50
but hey, that
11:51
they couldn't see who they were supporting because they seemed to be allowing
11:55
that that person was supporting other students at the same time.
11:58
So it's really thinking about, as an educator,
12:02
if I'm offering differentiated practice,
12:05
it's allowing me to think about the variability of the students
12:09
in the classroom and offer those range of strategies to all students.
12:13
So this is why it's not a big shift in what we're doing.
12:17
It's the shift in approach, and it's thinking through that lens,
12:21
when we're doing our planning.
12:23
So if I get this correctly, it kind of sounds like
12:27
we're very intentionally planning for differentiation within our classrooms.
12:30
We're providing a fair amount of resources that will, allow each student to kind of
12:35
opt in to where their challenge might be, giving them a bit more autonomy.
12:39
And then the teacher is less like, I'm in control of the pacing
12:43
and the and the you know, how we're going through this course.
12:46
And the teacher then becomes more,
12:49
allowing the
12:49
student to run their own direction, and they're kind of in there as well.
12:52
Kind of guiding on the side is, is that a fair sort of summary of what I'm hearing?
12:56
It kind of is.
12:57
But also it isn't because,
12:59
the the way that universal design works so beautifully in our IB
13:02
classrooms, is it just links intrinsically with inquiry based learning.
13:06
So an inquiry based learning where
13:09
listening to our learners and offering them choice.
13:12
And in what interests them, what excites them?
13:15
I use a great analogy actually.
13:18
I'll share this. It's quite funny.
13:20
So when we think about recruiting interest with our students,
13:24
I always liken it to myself and my husband.
13:27
I've been married for a very long time, about 39 years, I think.
13:30
Gosh, oh wow. Congrats. Congratulations.
13:32
Oh thank you.
13:33
I met him when I was very young.
13:34
I'm just going to say that I was at school. I only assumed.
13:38
But no, I mean, we have
13:40
different interests and our attention spans are very different because of that.
13:45
Now he loves formula one
13:48
and he will watch formula one for hours and days.
13:53
And, you know,
13:53
I'll come into our living room and I can see these cars
13:57
going out on the track,
13:59
And I'm kind of like, what are you watching?
14:00
And it's a rerun from, you know, 1999.
14:05
You know, but he's watching it intently and his interest is is huge.
14:09
Now, I will sit down and watch maybe the Monaco Grand Prix with him,
14:13
and I will watch the first five minutes, and then I'll straight
14:17
to my phone and my interest isn't, isn't there such than hit is.
14:21
So when we think about, our classrooms, what we want
14:25
you to think about is recruiting interest from our students.
14:28
So it's really allowing them to decide what interests and excite them.
14:33
I was doing a school visit recently,
14:36
and in that classroom,
14:37
the students were all, they were creating a game.
14:40
They were doing, it was an IT class, and they were creating a game.
14:45
And it was, you know, it seemed like
14:47
it was a good idea, a good set up for the students.
14:50
But I could see so many students were disinterested
14:53
and these were like 12, 13 year old students.
14:55
MYP two three.
14:57
And I asked a bunch of the girls, you know, are you interested?
15:02
You don't seem to be particularly on task.
15:04
And they said, well, you know,
15:07
it's a game.
15:07
And I said, well, that's great, you're coding.
15:09
You know, coding is really interesting, isn't it?
15:11
You enjoy coding?
15:13
Yeah, we do enjoy coding.
15:14
And I said, well, why are you
15:16
so, you know, you seem really awful with this.
15:20
And I said, you know, Miss it's
15:22
it's a game and it's coding, but it's all about a pirate ship.
15:30
It's all I can code
15:32
women's football, I can code Ariana Grande.
15:36
I can code a game on fashion.
15:37
Yeah.
15:37
Anything that interested them, we would event with maybe
15:41
25 different games that looked different but had the same core, basis.
15:45
So it's really, you know, that's how we can recruit interest.
15:50
And for teachers, it's often quite scary because they're going to go off
15:53
and look into different things.
15:54
But isn't that enriching as a teacher that you find out
15:58
about, you know, different things that interest your students?
16:01
Yeah, you don't need to grade 25 pirate ship games.
16:05
But that was what I, you know, and and even that a pirate ship game for 12,
16:08
13 year old girls.
16:10
I mean,
16:10
they were just never going to go there because it was the most uncool thing.
16:13
Yeah.
16:13
You know, so so this is what we need to think about
16:15
when it's not about we need to be the experts
16:19
where as a facilitator of learning, you know, we're facilitating our students
16:23
learning journey
16:23
and actually going on a learning journey with our students
16:26
for me, is one of the most exciting things that we can do in the classroom,
16:30
that we can explore and expand our understanding of the world around us
16:34
through their eyes.
16:34
You know something that interests them. So,
16:38
my experience with
16:39
UDL is when it's when it's put into practice and places, teacher
16:43
teachers are just much more engaged in, in their students interests
16:47
and really understand.
16:49
And I actually end up sort of take them by the hand
16:51
and take them to explore an area, but then kind of learn from them.
16:55
And that might be a scary thing for some teachers,
16:57
but my goodness, it makes that working day much more interesting.
17:00
It really does.
17:01
It sounds like a really positive way to reduce or sort of pull out the interest
17:05
from the, from the young person and,
17:07
and as you say, give them the chance to be more engaged in their interests,
17:10
kind of find the avenue and whatever course
17:12
they're doing to say, oh, this is what I want to get from this.
17:15
And here's how I can express more my own interests in this area.
17:18
I can see where that would build up a lot more passion,
17:22
a lot more interest in the subject.
17:24
And I imagine, you know, it has the potential to do some things
17:27
for that young person to make them feel better about being in school,
17:31
one feeling like they're recognized and they're a bit more included.
17:35
And I'm just guessing there's some things that have enhanced their feelings
17:38
of wellbeing when they're in that area as well.
17:41
Is this something you've seen
17:42
in the practice as well, and does it link to student sense of well-being?
17:45
Yeah, absolutely. Completely.
17:47
And and you know, we can start
17:48
there's a couple of elements when we think about approaches
17:50
to learning skills, which are incredibly important.
17:53
And this but also speaking to our learners at the very beginning and
17:56
and setting the framework in the classroom.
17:59
And I'm sure many of you out there do essential agreements.
18:03
But do you provide them for your students,
18:07
or do you actually recruit that from your students
18:10
and get them to set them the parameters and set the boundaries?
18:13
Because that's the first, first part.
18:15
You know, our students need to feel safe and they need to feel like they
18:19
they have ownership of their learning.
18:21
And when I talk about advocacy, it's really I'm owning my learning
18:24
journey, and I can advocate for myself in the way I want to learn.
18:28
And again, that can be quite scary.
18:30
But actually, the benefit and the payoff from
18:33
that is you have students who are really highly engaged,
18:36
which means that, attainment goes up.
18:40
The schools I've worked with in the UK, they immediately
18:43
saw attendance go up, which was just incredible.
18:46
Behavior improves.
18:49
And I can give you another anecdotal,
18:51
reference to behavior.
18:53
There's one particular school that I work with
18:55
that used to have like sort of the barriers,
18:57
and everyone had to check in and check out and, you know, behavior was an issue.
19:02
And they really, really went very, very deeply into UDL
19:06
their school that has a real diverse population.
19:09
So let's say 80% of their students have some kind of
19:13
a diagnosed learning need or language learners or come from,
19:20
a deprived background where, they, you know, they perhaps
19:24
haven't had food or, you know, they no money to close that, that, that child.
19:29
So, you know, very, very challenging environments.
19:31
The last time I went there, the barriers had all gone down.
19:35
And I said to the head of school,
19:38
what's happened, what's happened?
19:39
And he said, we just have kids who want to come to school.
19:44
They want to come to school and they want to learn.
19:46
And that's something
19:47
that, in the UK, in their Ofsted report, I mentioned that they really picked up on.
19:51
So it's really it's really engaging our students.
19:54
And when a student is asked
19:56
how do you want to learn, what are you interested in
19:59
that's going to engage that learner so much more, isn’t it?
20:03
And our our student wellbeing improves greatly.
20:06
But what we also have to be very conscious of is being purposeful
20:10
with teaching ATL skills
20:13
and those in the IB world will be really familiar with those.
20:16
But the areas I focus on mostly when I'm,
20:20
delivering a professional development is thinking about those effective skills,
20:25
you know, building resilience, allowing students to fail
20:28
well allowing them to learn how to make mistakes.
20:33
And that be okay.
20:35
Because for many students making a mistake,
20:37
you know, they will then shut down and they won't come back to the learning.
20:41
It will take a long time for that teacher to encourage them.
20:44
You know that that this is okay with move forward.
20:46
But if we equip our students with those skills in advance,
20:49
I mean, I remember in my math class, you know, learning,
20:52
I did love logarithms, which is some ancient piece.
20:59
I was talking to a math teacher about the other day.
21:02
But, you know, for many students they will find new things challenging.
21:06
But if we can equip them in advance to overcome the challenge and fail and fail
21:11
well, because we don't get things right every time, that allows students
21:15
to be much more resilient and around well being.
21:18
I was mentioning the wellbeing project that I'm working on.
21:21
That is one of the areas that we're really struggling with worldwide at the moment.
21:26
That resilience and building capacity in our students
21:30
to navigate the world around them within and beyond school.
21:34
So, so yeah, it it fits into all of that so well.
21:38
And our students just do better.
21:40
They they just do better.
21:42
What do you think are some of these biggest barriers?
21:46
I think I mean,
21:47
what you're saying, it's hitting all the things that most teachers do want to do.
21:51
They want to be building resilience.
21:52
They want to be incorporating the ATL’s into their ways of educating.
21:57
But when you're going into all of these schools, especially the IB
22:01
schools, what barriers are you seeing most often
22:05
to getting teachers to actually be in that place that they do want to be in?
22:10
Yeah, it's interesting because whenever I'm going anywhere I like
22:13
like any good educator going in, I do a survey
22:16
and I'll always ask the team, what is your barrier?
22:19
What is your barrier to implementing UDL?
22:22
Do you perceive it might be?
22:23
And as I mentioned, it's always time
22:26
and I have a frank discussion with the teams when I'm there.
22:30
If you are not differentiating in your classrooms,
22:34
then you've got some work to do.
22:36
And if you are
22:37
differentiating for your students, then it will be less,
22:42
but you're just going to target it in a different way.
22:45
So the perceived barrier is always time.
22:48
And for me, that only exists
22:51
if we're really not planning to,
22:54
you know, to reach a diverse range of learners in our classrooms.
22:58
And then the second one is just knowing how to implement this,
23:02
because what we're worried about,
23:05
as all teachers are, you know, we only get one chance with our students.
23:09
And, you know, we don't want to do something and then it not work.
23:14
So it's understanding that approach and having confidence in that.
23:18
So within schools, what I always recommend
23:21
when I've been working with them
23:22
is that they build a professional learning community and they share
23:26
and they collaborate and they open their classroom doors
23:29
to see what practice is working well and offer support
23:32
and advice on practices that they're, you know, they're wanting to explore, but,
23:36
maybe feeling a little bit challenged about.
23:38
So, you know, there's a makeup there and it fits with IBL as well.
23:43
I did some research on inquiry based learning and, you know,
23:47
the challenges to implementing anything new is generally time
23:50
and, you know, fear of change and it just not working.
23:54
Yeah, I think that there's a lot to be said about kind of
23:57
change management and supporting teachers in making these changes.
24:00
But I think one of the things that is really
24:04
hard to get teachers to,
24:08
work with is the time element, but like,
24:11
you can't just tell them, like, try harder.
24:15
They're already trying as hard as they can.
24:18
Like you both saying, you're spinning so many different plates and you know that
24:22
if I take away time from one of these plates, it will fall and crack.
24:26
What do you give as advice for these teachers that are like,
24:30
I'm at max capacity?
24:32
I've been running on 120% for 20 years.
24:36
Yeah. I can't just stop.
24:38
Like, how do I do this? Like what?
24:40
What plate do I let drop
24:42
or what do I do differently to be able to make space for this?
24:46
Yeah. And and it's a really interesting one isn't it?
24:49
Because we are at capacity often at capacity.
24:52
But it is really working smart, smarter.
24:54
Courtney I can't emphasize that enough,
24:56
but I think I think we've just got to be kind to ourselves as well,
25:00
you know, and really appreciate that we are doing our very, very best and
25:03
we don't want to let our students down.
25:05
But by making some small changes and, you know,
25:09
let's not say that I'm going
25:10
to come into a school and work with a team and that's just going to do the magic
25:14
the next day. Change everything overnight.
25:16
But certainly what I do do is say, let's just change one thing.
25:20
Let's change it in your planning.
25:21
So the next lesson that you teach that is the way you're going.
25:25
And it's often just in how we're presenting content
25:29
or we're allowing students to informative assessments
25:33
have a little practice
25:34
and a little try and showing different ways of what they know.
25:38
And that works really, really well.
25:41
And it's just building our own confidence.
25:43
But as I say, if we've already got those differentiated practices in place
25:48
for assessment, for the way that we allow them to engage with content,
25:52
for the way that we go through that learning process, then
25:56
it's just being more targeted at thinking, who am I learners?
25:59
How am I going to reach those edges?
26:01
And what about those ones who are in between?
26:04
I always think of it as like a 180 degrees,
26:07
and we we aim at the middle and we try and catch the signs.
26:11
But actually, if we think about just aiming for those signs
26:14
and providing agency and choice, we catch many more students.
26:18
That's what I'm really hearing right now,
26:20
actually, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, okay,
26:22
there's a resource element here and there's like, okay,
26:25
I need my practical strategies and kind of how to lay this out.
26:29
But what I'm hearing more of is kind of a mindset shift.
26:31
It's a it's a shift from the teacher saying like,
26:34
this is the direction we're going, here's my pacing, here's
26:36
my curriculum, we're going to get through it.
26:38
And now I need to accommodate for everybody who might be on the outer
26:41
edges of this, who can't follow the same pacing that I've got here.
26:44
And and I think often as educators, we think of that
26:47
there's either to like push in or pull out support, of,
26:51
what sort of accommodations do I need to do for this student?
26:53
How can I adjust their vocabulary or their,
26:55
you know, learning methods so that they can keep up with this class?
26:59
But what I'm hearing right now and correct me if I'm wrong,
27:01
but it really sounds like it's a shift from
27:03
let me make sure you can keep up to this class, and instead it's
27:07
you pick your entry point, you pick your movement,
27:11
and I, as the teacher, I'm now next to that.
27:14
And I'm kind of guiding that pathway.
27:16
And it's really that quite.
27:18
Yeah.
27:18
It's it's kind of extreme differentiation is is what I'm hearing.
27:22
Is that okay?
27:23
Is that kind of an accurate like mindset shift?
27:26
Yeah, you're spot on.
27:27
But it comes with something else which,
27:31
is our
27:32
in our planning, who sits with us in our planning.
27:35
So when I'm planning MYP or
27:38
NDP who sits with us? We might sit with our subject team.
27:42
We might sit with a coordinate.
27:43
We might had a have ahead of you.
27:45
Do we sit with, language specialists?
27:48
Do we sit with, special education teachers?
27:52
So if we can plan and work with them when we're,
27:55
when we're, you know, reviewing our curriculum,
27:58
what I always do with the workshops that I do
28:01
is I ask those teams to sit on tables around the room.
28:05
So they're sitting with subject matter experts, and they're working with them
28:08
as a, as the guide.
28:10
Because, again, often we don't know how to reach those learners.
28:14
And, you know, we don't want to make a mistake we don't want to miss out on.
28:18
We also don't want pull.
28:20
Pull is one of the most challenging things that we have in our schools.
28:23
We really want our students to be together and be included
28:27
because there's such richness
28:28
from having a diverse range of students in our classroom.
28:33
But having those specialists working with us in planning,
28:36
but also coming into classrooms and having them as, you know,
28:40
as I mentioned, that that school in the UK,
28:42
they had one specialist who would normally just sit
28:45
by the side of a student, but they were around the class.
28:48
They were working with many different students,
28:51
and supporting many different students.
28:53
And that allowed the student that they were sitting with
28:56
who is often that student who thinks, just let me breathe a little bit,
29:00
just allow me to fail.
29:01
Just allow me to have some choice that allows them some space.
29:07
But also they've still got that support there,
29:08
but they can then work more with their peers.
29:10
I mean, I see so many classrooms where we have inclusion
29:13
and it's it's not really inclusion when we have a student sitting there
29:16
working by the side of somebody on something completely different.
29:20
They're not included in the classroom.
29:23
There's another school.
29:23
We've got some we've got some, some schools
29:25
now, a call center in this in this context.
29:28
But we have IB schools that are purely schools
29:32
that are inclusive schools where students have very, very high learning needs.
29:36
And they’re are IB schools and they're
29:40
doing universal design for learning, and they have some of the best
29:43
inquiry and collaboration that I've ever seen in classrooms.
29:47
It's just incredible.
29:49
But it it's taking that step back.
29:50
And as you say, John, it's a mind shift.
29:53
It's kind of it's not letting go of the learning because we never do that.
29:58
But it's facilitating our students
30:01
to do the best that they can, which sounds like a lot.
30:03
But if you know that you've got students that are engaged
30:06
and you know, we can see the body language sometimes when they're, you know,
30:10
they're not quite there, that changes so quickly.
30:14
And for an educator, that's the the best thing, isn't it?
30:17
When you look around your classroom and it's just buzzing and everyone's on it
30:22
and they're enjoying their learning and they can come out
30:24
at the end of the day and say, you know, we've got parents and guardians.
30:29
Say, what did you do today that can be quite vocal about that?
30:32
You know?
30:32
So it is that's, that's it's a it's a shift in approach.
30:37
It's a shift in mind to that.
30:38
Because I would imagine most of all educators already have what they need
30:42
there.
30:42
It's just that nuanced, shift that they need to make.
30:47
Are you an IB educator wanting
30:49
to improve your practice and needing just a bit more support getting there?
30:53
Ever wanted to learn more about a specific aspect of the the diploma program,
30:57
or just ask a question to an educational theorist about a specific IB aspect?
31:01
IB Unplugged is the place for you.
31:03
Simply visit kognity.com/ibunplugged to submit your question to us,
31:08
and have your question explored in more detail in an upcoming episode.
31:12
And now, back to the show.
31:15
Something that stands out when you're talking though.
31:17
What I was thinking about is really this idea of the
31:21
I would say in the traditional sense, the only students
31:24
that have differentiation are the ones that are kind of at the moment.
31:27
When you were talking about that 180, like the most extreme ends
31:32
and I, I think that
31:33
there are students that obviously need different types of assistance.
31:37
But when you're the only differentiated student
31:41
one, there's a wellbeing aspect to you being the different one
31:45
when everyone else is doing the same thing except you.
31:49
But then two, there's also this I wonder about the kids
31:53
that are maybe on the border of like they probably would benefit
31:57
from having more support, but there's maybe a fear of
32:00
I don't want to be the different one either, where if you have a classroom
32:05
where everybody is working on something differently or it's
32:08
tailored in some degree to what they're doing differently,
32:11
it eliminates that separation
32:15
between the kids that are
32:19
either getting pulled out or on that edge,
32:22
and the ones that are really in the middle but not thriving in the middle either.
32:29
Yeah.
32:30
I mean, just just for example, if we're offering some scaffolds
32:33
and supports for a student that might be towards that edge.
32:36
So we might offer,
32:38
some vocabulary,
32:39
a sheet with vocabulary and some visuals, some guiding questions.
32:44
Think who else might benefit from that.
32:46
There's the scaffolding supports in that classroom.
32:49
Right.
32:49
And it's instead of just saying to that student, here's your learning.
32:53
It's saying like, guys, there's there's some visuals here
32:57
if you want to take those, here's some guiding questions,
32:59
if you just want to, you know, to check in on some of the key points
33:02
and what we're doing today, here is some vocabulary.
33:06
Do you need to take 2 or 3 of these whatever you need to take.
33:09
And that's where that agency comes in as well.
33:13
Because, you know, I'm perhaps a learner who who isn't so strong in my language,
33:19
but I'm not to a point where I've got any support that.
33:23
But actually just having that might be very helpful.
33:25
But hang on, I'm, I actually work really work better with visuals.
33:29
So if you can give me a visual to work with as well, I'll, I'll take that.
33:33
But I'm not on any, any scale.
33:37
I don't have anything at all.
33:39
I'm just a learner who would benefit from some of those those options.
33:44
And that's where you really see classes really become very, very inclusive.
33:49
And the more that that happens, the more students can advocate
33:52
for actually, is it possible that I can take those
33:55
those those, stem sort of start as I sentence starters today.
34:00
I just could do with that because I'm tired.
34:04
I'm 13 years old and I'm really tired.
34:07
You know, it's the end of the week.
34:08
I'm feeling really stressed.
34:09
You know what support is there for me.
34:11
And you're right.
34:12
That just means that those students who would normally be sitting
34:16
perhaps to one side, with someone supporting them,
34:19
even when it's the same, and that's really what inclusion is all about.
34:23
There's a great video, that I often show, which shows a learner who has,
34:29
she has down
34:30
syndrome and she, she just talks about actually just include
34:33
me, allow me to advocate for myself and show
34:37
and take the pace that I want to take in the classroom.
34:40
And everyone can everyone in the classroom
34:42
can benefit from her perspective as well.
34:45
So, you know, it's it's taking that approach.
34:48
All right.
34:48
So this is this is really fun, actually, because what I'm hearing is good
34:53
teaching and learning for students who might need additional support.
34:57
Or, you know, when you create a resource that's going to help, learning for one
35:01
individual is potentially a resource that would help all the individuals.
35:06
So what I'm hearing is
35:07
it's actually
35:08
not so much about differentiation per se of like everybody
35:12
has to have a different approach, but rather like it's a differentiation
35:15
of your resources, recognizing that there are really good ways
35:18
that people can access this knowledge and then providing that for everyone.
35:23
So you're not necessarily separating out people in the class, but you are separating
35:27
the ways in which they might acquire or learn the content
35:31
and knowledge, the skills.
35:32
And then that's kind of a smorgasbord, right?
35:35
Says, hey, pick up what you want and go from this.
35:38
Then I can see where, like, the collaborative approach
35:41
might be the best way, as you were alluding to earlier, that professional
35:44
collaboration where, you know, as I'm planning my lessons, yes,
35:47
maybe I've got a head of department or I've got head of teaching and learning,
35:50
or I've got an inclusion coordinator or people in that team that are kind of
35:53
with me in that I can see where that would then remove the need for
35:58
how do I accommodate for this student, and rather,
36:02
how do I make sure I've got great learning resources
36:05
so that students can choose which one they want to get into?
36:08
Is that is that where we're at?
36:09
That's exactly where we're at. That's exactly where we're at.
36:11
So having that that support and reaching out, but also,
36:15
you know, reaching in, we want our inclusion team to reach
36:18
into our classrooms and reach into the planning as well,
36:21
to ensure that we are, you know, teaching to the edges.
36:25
Yeah.
36:25
But it's that's it.
36:27
It's that agency that students really quickly build up.
36:30
And I can't emphasize this enough because once they realize that they can,
36:35
they can have some choice and that they can choose not just, you
36:40
know, what will help them, but actually what excites them, what interests them.
36:44
Think about the pirate ship game.
36:46
You know, if we if we said to our students, you choose,
36:49
you know, we're all going
36:50
to go on a learning journey about whatever that topic might be.
36:53
The skills are the same.
36:54
I'm still going to take those students
36:56
through that skill development, but it's going to look different.
37:00
It just engages our students so much more.
37:03
It really does.
37:04
And as an educator, it's it's just much more exciting.
37:08
Yeah.
37:09
A lot of the schools that I've worked with,
37:10
they've noticed teacher retention has gone up.
37:13
My goodness, in some contexts that is such a challenge.
37:17
And, you know, we've seen around the world post-Covid how
37:20
we had a lot of challenges around that, but actually allowing teachers
37:24
to have more agency in working with their learners, they're also happier as well.
37:30
One of the slides I have
37:31
at the beginning of my presentation is what's the benefit for students?
37:34
But what's the benefit for you? Right?
37:36
And what is the benefit for you?
37:37
And I mean, you go on a
37:39
a professional learning journey because you're understanding your students
37:42
much more deeply.
37:43
But as far as your planning goes,
37:46
often you might be having to plan
37:49
maybe six differentiated strategies that might work or might not work.
37:54
And we're making an assumption with students where that ceiling will be.
37:58
All of that goes,
38:00
and we think about the variability of the learners, the ones in between.
38:04
I think about those variables that perhaps we can't predict.
38:07
Maybe we can predict language, for example, you know, many of those
38:11
we collect, but those ones that we can't predict are often around wellbeing,
38:15
around levels of anxiety, around what's happening in home life.
38:19
And these are the things that we can't necessarily measure
38:21
or we don't necessarily get a diagnosis on. Right.
38:23
They kind of come into the classroom.
38:25
You're not fully aware of what else is playing them for this student, right?
38:29
Yeah, I was working with the school on their inclusion policy recently,
38:33
and there was a whole area that we hadn't thought about that.
38:37
And I said, so what about the students who come in who suddenly something happens?
38:41
What strategies do we put in place for them to support them?
38:45
You know, something happens at home.
38:47
There's a bereavement.
38:48
You know, these are all areas that that sit within
38:51
that wellbeing, which, I mentioned the wellbeing project
38:54
I'm working on that is wellbeing.
38:57
If I schools I go into there are two main concerns right now.
39:00
The first is wellbeing and the second is AI.
39:03
Yeah I mean any any educator that's going to
39:06
any conference these days, those are the themes for sure.
39:09
Yeah.
39:09
You know,
39:09
I mean I think we recognize that. I'm doing a break on on Liam on wellbeing.
39:13
So anybody if anyone wants to catch me there.
39:19
I love you bringing this stuff up here and I especially like that
39:21
you've mentioned autonomy and sort of student choice
39:24
and building their own, their own self-efficacy, I guess.
39:27
And we've alluded to approaches to learning earlier before.
39:30
And yes, I totally buy into the affective skills
39:33
that I think are going to develop here, including self-management and that sort
39:36
of thing.
39:38
Talk to me about ways in which,
39:40
you know, the the UDL can promote inclusive teaching,
39:45
but through that lens of ATL like, how do our ATL skills of communication
39:49
and collaboration and research skills and thinking skills
39:52
and that sort of stuff, how are they enhanced through this as well?
39:54
Because there's elements
39:55
where I see where it's yep, that's stuff I'm going to push it.
39:58
But then there's other things where I'm like,
40:00
wait, how am I going to develop some social collaboration skills
40:03
if each person is kind of like, oh,
40:04
I'm building a game like this, and I'm doing this thing like this?
40:07
Talk to me about that.
40:08
How do we see those two complementing each other?
40:10
Yeah.
40:10
Well, I mean, let's take,
40:12
let's take thinking skills, creative and critical thinking.
40:15
I often work with DP schools and, for DP schools
40:20
it's often all about, you know, I need to get the content delivered.
40:23
We need to get to this particular point.
40:26
And that's that's fine and that's fair.
40:28
And I get that.
40:28
And we have these external assessments
40:30
that generally aren't particularly inclusive for all learners.
40:33
You know, we know that we can we can say that we need we have learners
40:37
that might need more time or might need scaffolds and supports.
40:41
But during that approach when we think about allowing our learners
40:46
to develop skills outside of that regular choice that they might make.
40:51
So let's say in, in language, in language and literature, they are always working
40:56
towards producing an essay in a particular way to respond to an exam.
41:01
Now, if we allow them to develop creative and critical thinking skills
41:06
to work in different ways, to show what they know and know in different ways.
41:10
So maybe we just take the essay off the table
41:13
and say, actually, I want you to work in a different way.
41:16
It might be that you'll create a video, it might be that
41:18
you might do a presentation, you might do a storyboard that, that,
41:22
neuroplasticity expands
41:24
by going into those different areas and being challenged and pushed.
41:28
And then when we come back to having to do that, that rigorous exam that there's a
41:33
one size fits all, we've got that well being from seeing success in other areas.
41:39
But also we can call on those creative and critical thinking skills
41:43
where we've really developed our ideas in different ways,
41:46
and it feeds back into, that one size fits all approach.
41:51
And I've seen that just there was a school I work with in Turkey,
41:54
and they had an external exam, and they wrote to me and said,
41:57
the grades have shut up.
41:59
And I said, so why have the grade shut up?
42:02
And they said, well, we surveyed the students
42:04
and it was all around wellbeing, and it was around
42:07
creative and critical thinking, being able to just think outside the box,
42:11
being able to pull that, pull that in because they'd
42:13
they had to work in different ways that had to,
42:16
process in different ways, that showed assessment in different ways.
42:19
And yes, they had to come back to that very narrow way of working
42:24
in that one size fits all test.
42:27
But they just had more scale.
42:28
And actually their confidence was so much better as well, because,
42:32
you know, they'd experienced success in different ways.
42:36
I it's that sort of that speaks to, to what you were looking for, John.
42:39
It's really interesting because I think that it's quite scary to
42:45
feel like you're helping students prepare for an exam by not
42:49
doing it like the exam, like everybody talks
42:52
about mock exams as being, you know, that is a huge part of it.
42:56
And so then you have to do mock exams for the mock exams,
42:59
and you have to prepare like ten degrees of always
43:03
working in the same form to be
43:07
to get to the point where when you go and take the exam,
43:10
it feels the most comfortable, like I've done this before,
43:15
but if I've done this before 100 times with no confidence,
43:18
that's not going to make you feel any better. No.
43:22
So no, I think that's a really interesting way of looking at it,
43:25
and one that I think takes a bit of bravery because it does feel a bit,
43:32
counterintuitive, but
43:34
I do think that it makes a lot of sense.
43:36
And it makes a huge difference.
43:37
And you don't need to do too much.
43:40
But, our students at the age of post 16, going into those DP exams,
43:45
if we spent two years of drilling students in just one way, we are leaving behind
43:50
so many who we could bring really to the table
43:54
at a much, much higher level with much more confidence.
43:57
I had a workshop a little while ago and, you know, like body language.
44:01
I love reading body language.
44:02
And it was, a diverse group of educators.
44:05
And there was a guy in the back, like leaning back in his chair like this.
44:09
I thought, okay, they went over.
44:11
We know that guy. We've all had. DP science teacher.
44:16
And I said, so thank you for attending the workshop.
44:21
How you find in the first session he said, oh, it's not for me.
44:24
I, you know, I've got to drill my students with excellence.
44:26
And I said, well, if you could just take some time
44:30
and just think about the context of your students
44:33
and think about the learners in your classroom as we go through the workshop
44:37
and just think about
44:38
what choice you could start to bring in, even if it's just a little bit of choice.
44:42
And it wasn't too long before he came back to me.
44:46
It was back sort of up the afternoon break that day and you just said, I've got it.
44:50
And I said, okay, tell me, I really want to hear this.
44:53
And he said, you know, I'm, I give the students case studies and a question bank,
44:59
and they sit and go through the questions, the case study,
45:02
and then they respond to the questions and give it back in my market.
45:05
I said, okay, how are you going to UDL up?
45:07
He said, well, he said, I think I'll get them to find a case
45:10
study that interests them,
45:13
he said.
45:13
And that's going to really allow them to have agency and choice.
45:16
He said.
45:16
We'll go on a learning journey over what is a good case study, study
45:19
and what isn't.
45:20
So there's deeper learning there, he said.
45:22
And then I thought,
45:24
what do you think about me getting them to write the questions?
45:27
I said, is that not going to be deeper learning for them?
45:31
So that was his, his, his way of, you know,
45:34
let's create the questions ourselves.
45:36
That's giving me agency.
45:37
But also let me find, a case study that I'm interested in rather
45:42
than, you know, I've I've got three case studies, you know, make a choice.
45:45
Actually, there's there's lots out there.
45:47
So that was just in one day, you know, just that was his first exploration.
45:52
But what a difference that would make to a cohort of students.
45:55
Just that small shift.
45:57
I love what you're leaning into here, because that's,
45:59
you know, I'm listening to that going, yep.
46:01
There's a real kind of concrete
46:03
practical example I know that I could implement right away.
46:05
And so I'm wondering, you know, what are what are some of the routines
46:08
or maybe activities that you know, of that can help teachers embed,
46:12
you know, ATL skills into a UDL or a, you know, together?
46:17
What are some what are some of the routines
46:19
or mindset shifts or things that we can do,
46:21
that really impact our classrooms in that way?
46:24
I think.
46:24
Well, I alluded to earlier, it's teaching skill explicitly
46:28
and not making an assumption that students have skills or that we're just,
46:32
you know, the skills are happening
46:33
because we're all sitting in a group working together,
46:36
being very purposeful about teaching skills.
46:39
And I think no matter what age
46:41
the students are in at the moment in IB programs,
46:45
there's a requirement in MYP that where the teacher skills.
46:48
But my goodness, often our DP students need those skills as well.
46:53
So I think actually teaching skill explicitly and understanding your learners
46:59
and again allowing them to advocate for, you know,
47:01
I'm not so strong in this or I feel I feel I am strong in this one.
47:05
Or maybe setting some activities where you can just kind of
47:08
watch your learners working together in a group and seeing who actually manages
47:13
challenge well or who's the, you know, the noisy one, the loud one,
47:17
who communicates the most, and he's the one who finds that more challenging.
47:21
But also sort of thinking about the type of activities
47:24
that we do, to allow different learners to come into
47:28
and to their own strengths and find their own strengths.
47:32
I mean, with ATL’s, what I suggest to schools
47:35
that have an ATL framework and they have IPs
47:38
is that they actually merge the two so that students have their own kind
47:42
of ATL passport, that for those who have IPs, it sits within that.
47:47
And that allows all learners to be very cognizant of who am I as a learner?
47:53
Where are my strengths?
47:54
Where do I need to develop,
47:58
and be able to advocate for that as well?
48:00
And to, you know, to have sight of that as I go through my learning journey,
48:04
you know, so that's something that I've seen schools
48:07
really put into practice and it's very transformative.
48:11
But it takes
48:12
it takes the school to sort of say, right, okay, let's take that ATL framework.
48:16
I mean, the one in the MYP is it's 142 strengths.
48:19
We don't need that.
48:20
We can just look at those broad categories, those broad titles,
48:25
and think about how does that work for my learner and how does that work for me.
48:28
Because the most empowering thing for a learner is not that we say,
48:32
I'm now going to teach all of these skills to you because I think you need them.
48:35
It's the learner being able to to really advocate and say, you know,
48:39
I'm not so sure about working in a group, you know, how do we work in a group?
48:43
And actually giving them some strategy around taking different roles?
48:47
Let's do a little bit of modeling first and then put them into that scenario
48:51
so that, you know, there isn't a place to hide in a group.
48:53
Everyone has a role.
48:55
And it's that kind of thing.
48:56
It's just a nuance.
48:57
But it might take two minutes, it might take five,
49:01
but actually just being very purposeful.
49:03
So a lot of can say, I remember when I learned some strategies
49:06
around collaboration and the other piece that we often don't do in
49:10
our schools is when skill has been taught specifically,
49:14
and let's say in INS or in history,
49:17
that we then let our colleagues know.
49:20
I've just taught those students to use a Gantt chart in MYP1, and they learned
49:25
to use another type of time management and another type of time management.
49:30
They've got three strategies.
49:32
Can you reinforce that and language and literature
49:35
as they're working towards their final goal?
49:37
I mean, I speak to DP students all the time,
49:40
and when I do speak to them, I generally ask them, how are you?
49:45
And they normally go, oh,
49:48
it's that time management piece.
49:51
If we were purposeful in teaching students time management at the age of 11,
49:56
and we reinforce and practice that across with our colleagues,
50:00
what would those students be like by the time they go into DP classes?
50:03
It would be a different kind of student that's able to manage their time, manage
50:07
their own wellbeing and be able to to really find the best path
50:12
through those very challenging two years that they have ahead of them.
50:15
There's a simple thing that I tried doing just a little bit.
50:17
You were talking about that little nuance and simple things to add in.
50:19
I tried this thing where I was putting a just in my lesson plans.
50:23
I would put, okay, what's my ATL focus and what's my IB learner profile focus?
50:27
What am I kind of doing with these. Each of them.
50:29
And I recognize like, oh, that might just sound like kind of a tick box exercise.
50:32
But then I would I post it or I put it up for my students as well.
50:36
And then it forces me to like, today I, I'm focusing on your collaborative skills.
50:41
So I'm going to be looking for this. I want to see these particular things.
50:44
So even just like throwing it out in front of the students was just a,
50:48
you know, a small change.
50:50
It was still my lesson plan, it was still the way to approach it,
50:53
but just a matter of like, I'm going to call this out.
50:54
And here's 1 or 2 things I'm kind of looking for
50:56
just to kind of pull their attention to it as well.
51:00
And, and
51:01
I can't necessarily say that that's been a massive success
51:04
or anything like this, but rather it was just something,
51:06
at least for me to say, like, I am being intentional, just as you said.
51:09
Am I being intentional in like how I'm teaching this
51:11
and this is a skill I want to develop. So how am I getting to it?
51:14
I think the precursor to that is that we call that skill out, right
51:18
through that journey, but the way we teach it first,
51:23
and we were explicit with that teaching.
51:26
There's you mentioned a smorgasbord before us, and young has a smorgasbord
51:31
that has literally hundreds
51:33
of ATL skills, and they're all little strategies
51:36
you can click on them and download them and and teach them.
51:39
And I often think it's a gift.
51:41
In school is I'm passing someone else's hard work on.
51:44
But often we just don't know how to teach a skill and we don't have time.
51:48
And it's, you know, a time pressures.
51:50
But if we can just take a moment
51:53
out of our teaching and say, right, here are some strategies around collaboration,
51:57
you guys aren't maybe going to get on so well during this.
52:00
You know, maybe, you know, how do we manage conflict within groups.
52:04
Just a little strategy that they have can go a long way.
52:08
And then you can remind them and reinforce that.
52:10
And then John, as you say, if you've got that planned in your unit,
52:13
but then if your colleagues in your year
52:16
know that that has been taught, that's where it really impacts.
52:20
Because, you know, they can say,
52:22
remember in John's class how you learn that collaboration skill?
52:26
We're going to go into a group.
52:27
Now let's just reinforce that and work on that together.
52:30
It takes it takes a bit of planning.
52:31
But we should have that horizontal planning in our IB programs anyway.
52:35
It's a requirement I do really that happens.
52:40
Yeah.
52:40
Yeah. No, I think that's really interesting.
52:42
And I think teaching we've, we've done some episodes
52:46
really talking about skills based learning.
52:48
And I do think that one of the powers of being intentional about skills
52:53
based learning is also give students the, the like same common ground of
52:58
like where you're all coming from to be able to do these skills together
53:03
and they have words behind it to describe it.
53:06
It's not just like a feeling of being nice to collaborate.
53:10
It's like, no, this is how you can actually do it.
53:14
And I think that especially in the
53:17
like in all of the IB, there really
53:20
there is a push to be very upfront about the ATL
53:24
as it should be something that isn't behind the scenes,
53:27
but really something that students know
53:31
what the ATL’s are and can feel that there is a difference
53:35
between a class that is working with this and not.
53:39
And I'm curious about your take on that parallel with UDL, of
53:45
how much of this do you believe should be behind the scenes design
53:50
versus an intentional conversation point with students
53:53
like, should students even know what UDL is?
53:57
And like, how do you frame that conversation?
54:01
That's a really great question, Courtney.
54:03
Again, lots of great examples.
54:05
And and really,
54:07
we've think about
54:08
students who are going from lesson to lesson.
54:12
They're going from classroom to classroom.
54:13
They've got some teachers who are teaching ATL’s
54:17
explicitly teaching UDL through the lens of UDL.
54:22
And anecdotally, if there is a class that isn't offering student agency and choice
54:27
and isn't supporting skill, students will call that teacher out and say,
54:33
where is my choice and what skill am I working on right now?
54:38
And I've seen that in classes.
54:39
Well, I love that.
54:40
I've also seen, as in the UDL classrooms, let's say,
54:43
a choice board where a teacher has constructed a choice board.
54:47
And I'm a great advocate by the way, of using AI to support this,
54:50
because if you're building choice boards, you can really use AI to support that.
54:55
But while they
54:56
create a choice board and they leave a whole row blank
54:59
and the row is blank because that's the students own choice,
55:02
they've come in with some ideas for those students, but also here's some,
55:05
here's some opportunities for you to bring you your own.
55:08
And and I can remember
55:09
speaking to that teacher and saying, you know, how often did I do this?
55:12
And she said, every single time.
55:14
So every single time I've got a choice board.
55:16
It's come from their ideas.
55:17
And then they always have an opportunity to add in even more ideas.
55:21
So she said, I'm not actually doing all of the work anymore.
55:24
It's it's the students that are bringing that in.
55:26
But she said, I know that in some classes, they're not doing it to the same level
55:30
or even doing UDL, and the students are shouting about it,
55:35
you know, saying, I'm a passive learner in this classroom.
55:38
I want to be involved. Where is my choice?
55:40
And these are I mean, these are 11, 12 year olds who are from,
55:44
you know, really, you know, challenging schools.
55:47
But they're they're on a,
55:50
I mean, why wouldn't you be if you're if you're sort of sitting,
55:53
sitting in a classroom and you're learning is really passive
55:56
and you're playing what I call ping pong, you know, where it's question, answer
55:59
question, answer question answer.
56:01
Am I recalling information? Has it gone in?
56:04
How much more exciting is it to to actually sort of
56:07
have some agency and choice and being able to,
56:09
to work in different groups on things that, you know, interests me and my group
56:13
and I, you know, we can collaborate together
56:15
because we know how to do that, because we've learned that skill,
56:18
which is going to be useful when I leave school
56:20
because I'm going to have to work in a team, probably.
56:22
All right. I'm excited. I'm on board.
56:25
I want to I want to do some of the stuff, and I'm
56:27
guessing some of our other teachers that are listening might as well
56:30
what's what's my first step,
56:32
what's kind of one very actionable strategy as a classroom teacher?
56:36
And I say I want to apply some UDL principles.
56:38
I recognize there's a whole framework here.
56:40
And there's a big thing that I could really latch on to.
56:42
But if I just want to do one thing tomorrow, what's what's my first step?
56:47
Okay, I would say look at or look at how you are differentiating what you are
56:51
differentiating, and create an opportunity for all students to take that choice.
56:56
Don't just choose that for those students, actually offer
57:01
a range to students of even if it's just through a learning engagement,
57:05
how that processing information, you know, maybe you're showing a video,
57:10
if you're showing a video, give the video to the students
57:13
so that they can actually, stop it, start it, put subtitles on,
57:17
but also offer them, you know, some, maybe some work with some screenshots
57:21
so that they can or students can actually engage with it
57:24
and get the very best out of that, that video, it's that kind of thing.
57:27
It's just thinking, who's my most difficult to reach student?
57:30
What would I provide for them?
57:33
Let everyone have that.
57:34
That's actionable.
57:35
I appreciate that it is. It is it, isn't it?
57:37
You know, like you said earlier, it's just a change in approach, isn't it?
57:41
It's if we're not doing any differentiation there, guaranteed.
57:45
You've got a bit of work to do, but if you are
57:47
then it's just shifting, shifting your approach
57:50
and thinking about variables that you have in your classroom and who might benefit.
57:54
And just saying to them, you know, guys, you can take that too, if you'd like to.
57:59
I think this is great.
57:59
I think this is, a really important topic.
58:02
I really appreciate it.
58:03
And it's one that I think you've done such a great job of giving really concrete
58:07
examples throughout this entire thing where it doesn't feel like,
58:10
oh, I gotta throw away all of my teaching practices and start from scratch.
58:14
And it's no, I, I you have these tools as a teacher to be able to make change.
58:18
And a lot of you have thought about this in different ways
58:21
for maybe only certain amount certain students.
58:23
And it's just expanding that out.
58:25
So Dianne, thank you so much for today.
58:27
I really appreciate this conversation.
58:29
Yeah. Absolutely.
58:30
Want to echo that Dianne is super enthusiastic.
58:32
And yeah, it's transformed over to me as well.
58:35
So I'm feeling it and I'm excited to bring some of this stuff to my classroom.
58:38
So thanks a bunch for taking the time to chat with us.
58:40
Thank you guys so much. It's been lovely to meet you.
58:42
Thank you.
58:44
IB Unplugged as a Kognity podcast hosted by John Patton
58:47
and Courtney Marline and produced by Katilina Gaffney.
58:50
Be sure to subscribe or follow and share with your fellow IB educators.
58:54
If you'd like to submit a topic, request or a question, please do so
58:57
on kognity.com/ibunplugged.
59:00
Let's keep the conversation going
59:01
and support each other in teaching with confidence, creativity, and joy.
59:05
See you next time.