Latest / NO FILTER / Joe Rogan Experience _2344 - Amjad Masad

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Joe Rogan Experience _2344 - Amjad Masad · NO FILTER

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: What's up?
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: What's up, man?
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Good. So having this big Counter-Strike tournament in town, does
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: that give you the Joneses?
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Totally, totally. You know, it's like, so your guy, Jason,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: was telling me about it because, you know, in addition
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to driving, he also flies the helicopter. And he told me, like,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the Red Bull guys were like, flying off and there's
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: like this big tournament I looked it up it was
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: like oh Counter-Strike so I used to be a bit
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: of a pro player myself.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: So how do you get out of pro playing because
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: the problem with like playing games is that it's essentially
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: like an eight hour a day thing like it becomes
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: a giant chunk of your life right and I would
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: imagine if you're playing pro it's even more of a commitment.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I take a different view on games. You know,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of people kind of view it as a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: sort of somehow like a negative thing, especially for kids. Actually,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I got my four-year-old like a Nintendo Switch early on.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: We're playing together because I feel like for me, it
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: helped me a lot with like strategy thinking, with reaction time.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I think like gamers tend to think really fast.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Have you seen the studies that they've done about surgeons? No,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: tell me. Surgeons that play video games regularly are much
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: less likely to make mistakes.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I totally believe it.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: It's something in the neighborhood of 25%. Is that what
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: it is, Jamie? Something like that? But so much so
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: that I would say you should teach video games to surgeons.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: It should actually be like a required thing, like cross-training. Right.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Isn't the Army also recruiting from gamers today as well?
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: That's what I heard.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I imagine drone pilots, right? That would make a big difference.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Especially if you can get them used to the same controllers.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Because those controllers kind of become a part of your hand.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: You know exactly where all the buttons are. Right. If
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: you're a kid that's playing fucking Counter-Strike or whatever it is,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Call of Duty every day. Totally. I would imagine that
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: just becomes second nature.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Dexterity. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: What is the thing with surgeons? It's nuts, right? It
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: might be higher than 25%. It was a very particular
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: kind of surgery, though, too.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: But it was like, I mean, they're almost using controllers.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they were making less mistakes. I don't think
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: it's entirely negative because I love games. I love playing them.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: But I love them so much that I don't play
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: them because I know I don't have any time.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Quake is your favorite game, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: 37% decrease in errors.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: That's wild.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: 27% faster task completion time. That's nuts.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So those guys grew up playing video game or did
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: they get them on video games?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: It says more than three hours per week. I think
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: they were still playing when they were doing the study.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: So, like, that, I mean, imagine something that, like, a
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: pill you could take that would give you a 37%
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: decrease in errors and a 27% faster task completion.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: That would be an incredible pill.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Like, you would make every surgeon take it. Did you
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: take your video game pill before you do surgery? Hey, man,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: don't operate on my fucking brain unless you take your
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: video game pill.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: You know, that's, you know, next time I need to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: have a surgery or whatever, I'm just going to ask
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: the doctor if they're a gamer.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: How much do you gain, bro?
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But, you know, Davey and I were talking about
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the one thing, and maybe that's kind of showing our
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: age a little bit, but the one thing that's kind of, like,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: a little weird slash, I don't know, somehow, like, a
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: little dystopian is the whole streaming situation where, like, kids
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: are not, like, playing the game. They're, like, watching someone
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: play the game.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not good.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: And it's, like, this zombifying thing where, like, they'll spend
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: hours just watching people.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just TikTok-ing. It's essentially, like, TikTok but video games, right?
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Because TikTok is kind of this mindless thing. You're just
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: scrolling through mindless things. And now you're mindlessly watching someone
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: else play a game.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like someone is, like there's this
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: strange thing with technology where like someone is living life
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: and doing things. And you're like sort of, it's almost
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: voyeurism or something like that about it. You know, David
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Foster Wallace, you know, the guy from Infinite Jest, wrote
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: an essay on TVs. And, you know, he committed suicide before, like,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: you know, the emergence of mobile phones and things like that.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: But he was very prescient on the impact of technology
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: on society and especially on America. And he was also, like,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: addicted to TV. And he talked about how, you know,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: it activates some kind of something in us that is,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: you know, something in human nature about voyeurism. And that's
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the thing that television and TikTok and things like that activate.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: It's like this negative, addictive kind of behavior that's like
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: really bad for society.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: I definitely think there's an aspect of voyeurism. But there's
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: just a dull drone of attention draw. There's a dullness
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: to it that just like sucks you in like slack jawed.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It is watching nonsense over and over and over again.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Does just enough to captivate your attention.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: But doesn't excite you. Doesn't stimulate you. Doesn't necessarily inspire
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: you to do anything. That is the first fly we've
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: ever had in this room.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Boom.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was going to kill it. You're a nice person.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Evil people would have killed that fly right away. But
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: it's just this thing where it doesn't do a lot.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: It's not like, you know, like have you ever done
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Disney World?
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Did you ever do Disney World in Florida where you
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: do that? There's the Avatar ride?
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: No, I just went to a California one.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Okay. The Avatar ride is Flights of Freedom? Fights of Passage.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: It's a VR game. Well, you know, a ride, rather.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: And you put on a VR helmet, and you get
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: on this, like, motorcycle-looking thing, and you're essentially riding a dragon.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievably engaging. It's incredible. It's the best ride I've
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: ever been on in my life.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Like, you're flying around. You feel the breeze. You're on
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: this thing, and the sounds are incredible. That's, like, engrossing, right?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: It takes over you.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Stimulating, yeah. Right.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: But that's not what you're getting from like TikTok or
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: like streaming. You're getting this.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: This dull. So it's sustainable.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I wonder which is worse, this or like opium
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: habit or something.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I know people that have done opium that are like functional.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: You know, they can, they can take pills and like,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure eventually their life falls off the rails, but.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: It's like sort of semi-functional when they're on these things.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: They can hold down a job and show up every day.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: And they're just like semi-functional opiate.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: There's a dude. I watched like a YouTube video. But
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: like he's known for having this contrarian opinion on drugs.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: That you can like control it. Like you can do
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: these drugs.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: What does he look like?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think he's a black dude. Oh, yeah.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Carl Hart. Dr. Carl Hart.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: He was here?
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been here a couple times.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: He's great. What do you think of his ideas?
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I think it's entirely biologically variable. I know people that
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: cannot drink. They drink and then they're gone. They get
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: hamster eyes, get these black eyes where their soul goes
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: away and then they're just off to the races and
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: picking up hookers and doing cocaine, and they find themselves
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: in Guatemala.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: They're just nuts.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: They can't drink. I can drink. I don't pretend that
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: the way my body handles alcohol is the way everybody's
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: body handles alcohol. I think that's the same with everything.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I think that's the same most certainly with marijuana. I
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: know some people that just cannot smoke marijuana, and other
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: people it's fine. I think it's very– we're all very
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: different physically.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. Alcohol is sort of on the downtrend all
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of America, but especially with young people, especially in Silicon Valley.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Everyone there listens to Huberman. I call him the Grand
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Mufti of Silicon Valley because he'll say, no alcohol, no drinking.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Everyone's like, don't drink. And like all the parties are
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: now like mocktails and things like that.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: There are probably a lot of boring conversations, unfortunately. It's
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: a little boring.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's very repetitive. It's all kind of like,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: will AI kill us? Right.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: You guys would know better than anybody.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: You guys are at the forefront of it, unfortunately. Yeah,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: I quit drinking. I quit drinking over three months ago.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. I know you guys used to do Silver October.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: And that wasn't that hard. And, you know, I was like, God,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: it's going to be one whole month. And then I did.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I was like, that's pretty easy. But I just had
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: some revelations, I guess. And I think the big one
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: is just physical fitness. I work out so much and
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I would drink and go to my club and have
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: a couple. Not a lot either. Just have a few
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: drinks and the next day just feel like total shit.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I think with age especially, it starts affecting you more.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: It's always been like that.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Always?
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: It's always been like that. I've always been hungover after
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: a night of drinking. But you don't feel it normally.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Like in normal life, if I just did normal stuff,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: it'd be fine. It's when you're in the gym that
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: you notice.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: When you're doing like second and third set of squats
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: or something like that, you're like, oh, God.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: And I haven't had any bad days since I quit drinking.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I've eliminated all that. And I'm like, just that alone
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: is worth it. Just that alone is worth quitting.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: So why do you think there's this trend? Is it
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: mostly for health?
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think there's a big health trend with
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of young people. I think a lot of
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: young people are recognizing the value of supplements and there's
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: that fly there's a difference between you and me I'm
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: gonna kill this motherfucker first fly I've ever had in
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: here Jamie that's kind of crazy been here five years.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Brought it with me from California.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: He snuck in because there's a lot of steps that
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: motherfucker has to go through to get into this room
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: um I think a lot of people are very health conscious.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: That's the rise of cold plunging and sauna use and,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: you know, all these different things like intermittent fasting where
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: people are really paying attention to their body and really
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: pay attention and noticing that if you do follow these steps,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: it really does make a significant difference in the way
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: you feel. And maybe more importantly, the way everything operates,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: not just your body, but your brain. It's like your function,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: your cognitive function improves with physical fitness. And, you know,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: if you're an ambitious person and you want to do
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: well in life, you want your body to work well,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: you know, alcohol is not your friend.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I wonder how much of it is your
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: impact because those things, you got me into all these
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: things through your podcasts. My wife and I just built
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: like a small kind of spa in our home. with, like,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a cold plunge and a sauna and a hot tub,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: and I'll try to do it every day. You know,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: something you say, I keep saying to myself, is, like,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: conquer your inner bitch.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: It's, like, such a good... And I feel like cold
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: plunge especially kind of... It's just something... regardless, health benefits
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: or not, something about it, like just mental toughness, like
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: trying to do it every day. And every day I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: chicken out.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Every day I'm like, oh, I don't want to go in, right?
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I do too. Yeah. I, my inner bitch speaks the
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: loudest when I'm lifting the lid off the cold plunge.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: My inner bitch is like, don't do this. You don't
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: have to do this. You could do whatever you want.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: You're a free man. You go have a sandwich, you know? Right.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: But you just got to decide that you're the boss. Yeah.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: And, and I think, uh, a lot of what discipline
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: is for me is, is that again, even, even keto
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and I did carnivore and these diets, um, like I'm
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: not sure how much health benefits there is. I feel
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: like keto is really good on your like blood sugar
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: and keeps you kind of on a, you know, even
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: keel kind of throughout the day. But for me, whenever
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: there's like a lot of chaos in my life, I
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: look at what can I control. Right. And typically diet
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: is the first thing, whatever it is. I'm like, I'm
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: going to go carnivore. I'm going to go keto. And
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the fact that I can control that and, and, enforced
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: discipline of myself kind of puts me puts me at
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: ease and I feel like I can control the other
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: thing in my business family yeah life.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: But that mindset is probably how you stop playing video
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: games every day yeah because I would imagine like we
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: were talking about earlier like that addiction is one of
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: the strongest addictions I've ever faced in my life right
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: like when I was taught if I would be talking
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: to people in the conversation was boring I'd be like,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I could be playing Quake right now. Why am I
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: here having this boring-ass conversation where I could be launching
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: rockets at people and having a good time?
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: But the other thing for me is programming. So I
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: got into programming early in my life. I was six
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: years old when my father bought a computer. I was
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: born and raised in Amman, Jordan, and we were the
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: first people I know ever at the time that had
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: a computer. And I remember. What year was this? 1993.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I was six years old.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Okay. So, 93. So, what kind of computer was that?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Was that like an old school IBM?
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: IBM PC. MS-DOS.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow. So, you did the real deal. Yeah.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I know a lot of Americans would like get a.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Mac as their first computer. That's what I got.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't have that. I actually wasn't
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: introduced to Apple until kind of recently in my life.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Really? Yeah. Like, recently, recently?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Like, no, like, you know, 12 years ago, 13 years ago,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: when I moved to the U.S.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: God, Apple has such a stranglehold in America. It's really incredible.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing. But, you know, we didn't know much
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: about it, so I got into DOS. I remember one
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: of my earliest memories is, you know, standing behind my
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: father as he was kind of pulling up this, like,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: huge manual and, like, learning how to, like, type commands,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and he was, like, you know, finger-typing those commands.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: And then I would watch him, and then after he leaves,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I'll go and try those things. And one day he
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: caught me.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: He was like, what are you doing?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I know how to do this. I'll show you.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And so I knew how to start games, do a
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: little programming, do a little scripting. And that's how I
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: got into computers. And I was obsessed. And initially, it
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: sort of got me into gaming. But then you want
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: to mod the games. Have you ever done any modding before?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I've done a few things like turn textures off and
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: And that's another thing that I think is healthy about
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: gaming is like a gateway to programming.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Gateway drug to programming. And so I got into like
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: modding like Counter-Strike and things like that. Those are fun.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: And then just like the feeling that you can make something.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: It's just like such a profound.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Such a profound feeling. And that's really kind of what I.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: carried through my whole life and became sort of my
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: life mission now with my company, Replit, what we do
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: is like we make it so that anyone can become
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: a programmer. You just talk to your phone and your app,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: sort of like chat GPT, and it starts coding for you.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: It's like a program software engineering agent.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Right. So it's like the AI guides you through it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Not only guides you through it, it codes for you.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: So you're sort of.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: You know, programmers typically think about the idea a little bit,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: about the logic, but most of the time they're sort
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: of wrangling the syntax and the IT of it all.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: And I thought that was always additional complexity that doesn't
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: necessarily have to be there. And so when I saw
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: GPT for the first time, I thought this could potentially
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: transform programming and make it accessible to more and more people.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Because it really transformed my life. The reason I'm in
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: America is because I invented a piece of software. And
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I thought if you make it available to more people,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: they can transform their lives.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Why was your dad messing around with computers? Was he
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• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so my dad is a Palestinian refugee.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you were telling me the story, and I want
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: to get into that because it's kind of crazy. Tell
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: the whole story of how this wound up happening.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so my family is originally from Haifa, which is
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: now in Israel, and they were expelled as part of
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: the 1948 Nakba, where Palestinians were sort of kicked out.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And they went to like.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: How does your dad describe that? How old was he
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: when that was going on?
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: My father was born in Syria. Uh, so my, uh, uh, my, uh,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: grandma and my grandpa and my uncles, uh, were, were,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: were kind of kicked out. And the way they would
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: describe that as, uh, they, they, they try to fight,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: they try to like keep their home, but, uh, it
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: was like this overwhelming force. They, they weren't organized. There wasn't,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: there were just like people. It wasn't, they didn't really
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: have an army at least in that, in that place. And, Um,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and eventually at gunpoint, they, they took their homes and,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and tell them to go. Uh, if, if you're down South,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: you went to Gaza and that's why like 70% of
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Gazans are refugees from Israel. Like the, the people that are,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: you know, getting massacred right now are originally from Israel,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: from the land that we call, that people call Israel today. Um,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: and then if, if you're in the North, like Haifa, Riafa, whatever, uh,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: you went, you went like to Lebanon, you, or, or
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: to the West Bank or to, um, or to, to, uh,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: or to Jordan or Syria. So my family went to Syria.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: My father was, was born in Syria, but my grandfather was, uh,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: like a, uh, railroad engineer. Uh, so they were like,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: you know, they were like city people that were urban. They,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: so they couldn't like, you know, they wanted to, to,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you know, have a place where, where they can, you know, there's, there's, uh, uh,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: They wanted to live in a city. And so originally,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: West Bank didn't work for them. And they ended up
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: in Syria. But then Amman, Jordan was kind of coming
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: up and there was a lot of opportunities there. So
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: my father was born in Syria and then moved to
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Amman when they were six years old and built the
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: life there. And they really kind of focused on education
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and trying to kind of rebuild their life from scratch.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: So my father and all my uncles kind of went
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: and got educated in Egypt, Turkey, places like that. And
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: so my father got an engineering degree, a civil engineering
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: degree from Turkey. And he was always interested in technology.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: And- whole thing where kicking people out of Palestine is
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: such an inconvenient story today. When people are talking about
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Israel and Palestine and the conflict, they do not like
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: talking about what happened in 1948. Yeah.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important. Like, I think for us
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: to reach some kind of peace, which is really hard
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: to talk about when you see what's happened in Gaza,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: even yesterday. Yeah.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the people that were waiting for food got bombed. Yeah.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: It's insane. And no one wants to talk about it.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: And if you do talk about it, you're anti-Semitic, which
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: is so strange. I don't know how they wrangled that.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: It's been hard for me in tech because I'm probably
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the only prominent Palestinian in tech that is talking about it.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Do you get pushback?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, of course.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Lots of pushback. What do people say to you?
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Anti-Semitic.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: How is it anti-Semitic?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I criticize the state of Israel. Our position, every moderate
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Palestinian that I know, their position is like two-state solution.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: We need the emergence of the state of Palestine. And
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: that's the best way to... Ending the occupation is the
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: best way to guarantee peace and security even for Israelis.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just like it's used... It sort of
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: reminds me, you know, in tech we went through this
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: like quote unquote woke period where you couldn't talk about
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: certain things as well. Has that gone away?
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, totally gone away. Yeah. What do you
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: think caused it to go away?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Elon.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like Twitter, buying Twitter.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Buying Twitter is the single most impactful thing for free speech,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: especially on these issues. um, of, of being able to,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: you know, um, talk, talk freely about a lot of
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: subjects that are more sensitive.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Imagine if he didn't buy it.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, that would.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Imagine if the same ownership was in place and they,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: and then Harris wins and they continue to ramp things up.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what you think of the new administration.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Certainly there are things that I like about some of
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: their pro-tech posture and things like that. But what's happening
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: now is kind of disappointing.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: It's insane. We were told there would be no– well,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: there's two things that are insane. One is the targeting
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: of migrant workers, not– Cartel members, not gang members, not
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: drug dealers, just construction workers showing up in construction sites
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: and raiding them. Gardeners.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Like, really?
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Or Palestinian students on college campuses. Or not, like, there's a,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: did you see this video of this Turkish students at
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Tufts University that wrote an essay? And then there's a
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: video of, like, ICE agents, like.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I don't understand. Is that a woman? Yeah, yeah.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: What was her essay about? It was just critical of Israel, right?
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Just critical of Israel. Yeah, I mean.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: And that's enough to get you kicked out of the country.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: There's a long history of anti-colonial activism in U.S. colleges
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: that led to South Africa changing and all of that.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: And I think this is a continuation of that. I mean,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with all their, like, there's a lot
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: of radicalism. A lot of young people are attracted to
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: like more radical positions on Israel, Palestine.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Which I don't mind those positions as long as someone's
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: able to counter those positions.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: The problem is these supposed free speech warriors want to
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: silence anybody who has a more conservative opinion.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: That's not the way to handle it. The way to
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: handle it is to have a better argument.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: That's not American.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: It's not American.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Maybe what attracted him to this country from– from the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: moment that I was aware and we started consuming American
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: media and American culture is freedom, is the concept of freedom,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: which I think is real. I think it's real.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: It is. I was watching this psychology student from, I
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: think he's from Columbia, but he has a page on Instagram.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I wish I could remember his name because he's very good.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: He's a young guy, but he had a very important point.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And it was essentially that fascism rises and as the
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: overcorrection response to communism and that we essentially had this
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Marxist communism rise in first universities and then it made
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: its way into business because these people left the university
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: and then found their way into corporate America and then
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: they were essentially instituting this. And then the blowback to that,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: the pushback is this fascism.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: That happened like last century?
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Well, they're talking about forever historically. He's talking about like
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: over time, whether it's Mao, whether it's Stalin. Like fascism
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: is the response almost always to communism.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: And that, you know, what we experience with this country
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: is this continual overcorrection. overcorrection to the left, then overcorrection
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: to the right to counter that. And the people that
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: are the rat, that's the guy. Anthony Rispo. That's it. Really,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: really smart guy. And very interesting thing. Jamie, how'd you
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: nail that that quick? Good job, buddy. You said those
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: words right as I saw them.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Decades of training.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Communism, fascism. Yeah, communism came first, fascism came in response.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Now today's left tears down norms and destabilizes the country
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: under the guise of progress. We're watching the conditions... for
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: another reaction build. History doesn't repeat, but it echoes.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Do you know this theory? I know you've had Marc
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Andreessen on the show, this James Burnham managerial revolution theory?
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: No, not by hand.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on it, but the idea is
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: that communism, fascism, and even some form of capitalism that
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: we're living under right now is like managerialism. is the
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: idea that capitalism used to be this idea that the
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: owner-founders of those companies, of capitalist companies, were running them.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: And it was like true capitalism of sorts. But both
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: communism and fascism share this property of uh, centralized control
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: and like a class of people that are sort of managerials.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: And maybe those are the elite sort of Ivy, Ivy
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: league students that are trained to be managers and, and,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: and they, they grow up in the system kind of
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: bred to become like managers of these companies. And today's
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: America is like trending that way where it is like
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: a managerial society. Uh, and Silicon Valley, there's like a
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: reaction to that right now, uh, People call it founder mode,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: where a lot of founders felt like they were losing
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: control of their companies because they're hiring all these managers
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and these managers are running the companies like you would
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: run Citibank. And then a lot of founders were like, no,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: we need to run those companies like we built them.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And Elon is obviously at the forefront of that. I
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: once visited XAI when they were just starting out, Elon's
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: AI company. And there were like 70 people. All of
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: them reported to Elon. They didn't have a single manager
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: on staff. Wow. And they would send him an email
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: every week. It was like, what did you get done
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: this week?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, that was the outrageous thing that he asked
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: people to do at Doge.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: People were freaking out. Five minutes a week. What are
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: the things you accomplished this week? He said, all you
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: have to do is respond.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: And they pushed back so hard on being accountable for
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: their work. Yeah. But that's government for you.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, government is the grossest, most incompetent form of business.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: It's a monopoly.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: It's a complete, total monopoly. The way he described some
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: of the things that they found at Doge, it's like
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: you could never run a business that way. Because not
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: only would it not be profitable, the fraud would get
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: you arrested. You'd go to jail for something that's standard
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: in the government. Right, right.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: My opinion of talented people, people like Elon, things like that,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: is that we should be in the free market. I
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: think you can do little change in government. As best
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: we can expect of a government to get out of
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the way of innovation, let people, let founders, entrepreneurs innovate
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: and make the market more dynamic. But again, going back
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: to this idea of materialism, like if you look at
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the history of America, one like really striking stat is
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: like the new firm creation, new startups in the United
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: States have been trending down for a long time. Although
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: there's all this talk of startups in Silicon Valley and
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: all of that, but in reality, there's less entrepreneurship than
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: there used to be. And instead, we have the system
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: of conglomerates and really big companies and monopsony, which is
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: the idea that the banks or BlackRock, like owning a
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: competitors as well, owning all these companies and they implicitly
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: collude because they have the same owners. And all of
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: that is sort of anti-competitive. So the market has gotten
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: less dynamic over time. And this is also part of
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: the reason I'm excited about our mission at Replit to
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: make sure that anyone can build a business. Actually, on
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: the way here, your driver, Jason, is a fireman. And
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: so I was telling him about our business and he
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: does he does training for other firemen around the country.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: He flies around and he does it out of pocket
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and just, just for the, for the love of the game. And,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: and he was like, yeah, I've had this idea for
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: a website so I can like scale my teaching. I
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: can like, you know, make it known when, where am
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I going to be giving a course, put the material online.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: And we were like brainstorming, potentially this could be, could
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: be a business. And I feel like everyone, like not everyone,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: but like, A lot of people have business ideas, but
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: they are constrained by their ability to make them. And
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: then you go, you try to find software agency and
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: they quote you sort of a ton of money. Like
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: we have a lot of stories, you know, there's, there's
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: this guy, his name is Joan Chaney.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: He's a.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: User of our platform. He's a serial entrepreneur, but whenever
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: he wanted to try ideas, he would like spend hundreds
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars to, to kind of spin up
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: an idea off the ground. And now he uses Replit
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to try those ideas really quickly. And he recently make
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: an app in like a number of weeks, like three, four,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: five weeks that made him $ 180, 000. So on its way
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: to generate millions of dollars. And because he was able
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: to build a lot of businesses and try them really quickly.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Right, without the big investment.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Without the big investment, without other people, which at some
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: point you need more collaborators, but early on in the
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: brainstorming and in the prototyping phase, you want to test
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of ideas. And so it's sort of like
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: 3D printing, right? Like 3D printing, although people don't think
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: it had a lot of impact on industry, it's actually
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: very useful for prototyping. I remember talking to Jack Dorsey
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: about this and early on in Square, they had this
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Square device and it was amazing. You would plug it
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: into the headphone jack to accept payments. Do you remember that?
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: And so a lot of what they did to kind
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: of develop the form factor was using 3D printing because
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: it's a lot faster to kind of iterate and prototype
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: and test with the users. And so software, you know,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: over time, like when I was, you know, I explained
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: how when I was growing up, it was kind of
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: easier to get into software because you boot up the
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: computer and you get the MS-DOS. You get the, it
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: immediately invites you to program in it. Whereas today, you
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: buy an iPhone or a tablet, and it is like
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: a purely consumer device. It has all these amazing colors
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: and does all these amazing things, and kids get used
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: to it very quickly. But it doesn't invite you to
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: program it. And therefore, we kind of lost that sort
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: of hacker ethos. There's less programmers, less people who are
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: making things because they got into it organically. It's more
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: like they go to school to study computer science because
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: someone told them, do you have to study computer science?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: And I think making software needs to be more like
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: a trade. Like you don't really have to go to
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: school and spend four or five years and hundreds of
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: thousands of dollars to learn how to make it.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Well, what I'm hearing now is that young people are
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: being told to not go into programming because AI is
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: essentially going to take all of that away. That you're
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: just going to be able to use prompts. You're just
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: going to be able to say, I want an app
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: that can do this.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I want to be able to scale my business to
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: do that. You know, what should I do?
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we built. That's what Repl.it is. It
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: automates the.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: But do you agree with that, that young people shouldn't
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: learn programming? Or do you think that there's something very
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: valuable about being able to actually program?
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Look, I think that you will always get value from knowledge.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a timeless thing.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: That's a wise thing, right?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like, you know, you and I are
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: into cars, right? Like, I don't really have to, you know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: tune up my car anymore, but like, it's useful to
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: know more about cars. It's fun to know about cars.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: You know, if something happens, if, you know, if I
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: go to the mechanic and he's doing work on my car,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I know he's not going to scam me because I
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: can understand what he's doing. It is, you know, knowledge
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: is always useful. And so I think people should learn
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: as much as they can. And I think the difference though, Joe,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: is that, When I was coming up in programming, you
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: learned by doing. Whereas, you know, it became this sort
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of like very sort of traditional type of learning where
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: it's like a textbook learning. Whereas I think now we're
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: back with AI. We're back to an era of learning
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: by doing. Like when you go to our app, you
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: see just, you know, text prompts. But a couple clicks away,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: you'll see the code. You'll be able to read it.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: You'll be able to ask the machine what you did there.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Teach me how this piece of code works.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: And so a lot of kids are learning. Kids are
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: such sponges, too.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: They're such sponges. My kids already know way more. I'm like,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: how did you do that with your phone? And my
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: daughter will go, are you doing this? Are you doing that?
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: You get the little thumbs moving 100 miles an hour.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: How did you figure that out? TikTok.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: What? Dude, the craziest thing is we have a lot
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: of people making software from their phone. They'll spend eight
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: hours on their phone because we have an app. They'll
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: spend eight hours on their phone kind of making software.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: That's better than watching TikTok.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Way better.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: It makes me very happy about that.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: You're accomplishing something. You're making creation. Just droning.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: The act of creation is divine. We just announced a
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: partnership with the government of Saudi Arabia where they want
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: their entire population essentially to learn how to make software
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: using AI. So they set up this new company called Humane,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: and Humane is this end-to-end value chain company for AI
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: all the way from chips to software. And they're partnering
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: with a lot of American companies as part of the
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: coalition that went to Saudi a few months ago with
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: President Trump to do the deals with the Gulf region.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And so they're doing deals with AMD, NVIDIA, a lot
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: of other companies. And so we're one of the companies
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: that partnered with Humane. And so we want to bring
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: AI coding to literally every student, every government employee. Because
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: the thing about it is it's not just entrepreneurs that's
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: going to get something from it. My view of the
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: future where AI is headed is everyone's going to become
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: an entrepreneur.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Really? Yeah.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: And so, you know.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: So this is the best case scenario future.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: As opposed to everyone goes on universal basic income and
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: the state controls everything and it's all.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Everything is done through automation.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I don't believe in that at all.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: You don't?
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: No.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Okay. Good. Help me out, man. Give me the positive
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: rose colored glasses view of what AI is going to
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: do for us.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So AI is good at automating things. I think
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: there's a, there's a primacy to, to human beings still.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Like I think humans are so, so fundamentally the technology
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: that we have, uh, large language models today, um, are
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: statistical machines that are trained on large amounts of data
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: and they can do amazing things. I'm so bullish in AI.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Like I think it's going to change the world, but
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: at the same time, I don't think it's replacing humans
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: because there's, uh, it's not generalizing, right? Um, AI is
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: like a massive remixing machine. It can remix all the
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: information it learned. And you can generate a lot of
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: really interesting ideas and really interesting things. You can have
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of skills by remixing all these things. But
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: we have no evidence that it can like generate a
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: fundamentally novel thing or like a paradigm change. Like, can
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: you go Can a machine go from Newtonian physics to
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: like quantum mechanics, like really have a fundamental disruption in
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: how we understand things or how we do things?
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Do you think that takes creativity?
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I think that's creativity for sure.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: And that's a uniquely human characteristic for now?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: For now? Definitely for now. I don't know forever. Actually,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite GRE episodes was Roger Penrose. Do
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: you remember him?
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: So do you remember the argument that he made about
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: why humans are special? He said something like he believes
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: there are things that are true that only humans can
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: know it's true, but machines cannot prove it's true. It's
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: based on Gödel' s incompleteness theorem. And the idea is that
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: you can construct a mathematical system where it can... where
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: it has a paradoxical statement. So for example, you can say,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: this statement is not provable in the machine. or the
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: machine cannot prove the statement. And so if the machine
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: proves the statement, then the statement is false, so you
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: have a paradox. And therefore, the statement is sort of
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: true from the perspective of an observer, like a human,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: But it is not provable in this system. So Roger
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Penrose says these paradoxes that are not really resolved in
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: mathematics and machines are no problem for humans. And therefore,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: his sort of like a bit of a leap is
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: that therefore there's something special about humans and we're not
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: fundamentally a computer.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Right. That makes sense. I mean, whatever creativity is, whatever
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: allows you to make poetry or jazz or literature, like whatever,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: whatever allows you to imagine something and then put it
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: together and edit it and figure out how it resonates
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: correctly with both you and whoever you're trying to distribute
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: it to. There's something to us that's different.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, we don't really have a theory of consciousness.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: And I think it's like sort of hubris to think that, um,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: that like consciousness just like emerges and it's plausible. Like
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not totally, you know, against this idea that you,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: you built a sufficiently intelligent thing and suddenly it is conscious. Uh, but,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: but there's no, there's no, it's, it's like a religious belief, um, that,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: that a lot of Silicon Valley have is that, you know, there's, um,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: you know, consciousness is, is just like a, um, side
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: effect of, of intelligence, um, or that consciousness is not
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: needed for intelligence. Somehow it's like this superfluous thing. And
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: they try not to think or talk about consciousness because
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: actually consciousness is hard.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Hard to define.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Hard to define, hard to understand scientifically. It's what I
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: think Chalmers calls the hard problem of consciousness. But, you know,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I think it is something we need to grapple with.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: We have one example of general intelligence which is human
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: beings and human beings have very important property that we
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: can all feel which is consciousness and that property we
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: don't know how it happens how it emerges people like
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: roger penrose are like um uh you know they have
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: they have these uh theories about quantum mechanics and micro
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: tubules i don't know if you got got into that
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: with him but um uh i think he has a
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: collaborator he's neuroscientists, uh, hammer off, I think, or something
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: like that. Um, and, uh, but people have so many things.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking, I'm not saying Penrose is, is, uh,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: just has the answers, but like, it's something that philosophers
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: have grappled with forever. And, um, there are a lot of,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of interesting theories. Like the, there's
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: this theory that, uh, consciousness is, is primary, meaning like
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: the material world is a projection of our collective consciousness.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. That is a very confusing, but interesting theory.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: And then there's, there's a lot of theories that everything
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: is conscious. We just don't have the ability to interact
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: with it. You know, Sheldrake has a very strange view
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: of consciousness. Who's Sheldrake? Rupert Sheldrake. Um, um, He's got
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: this concept, I think it's called morphic resonance. And see
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: if you can find that so we can define it
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: so I don't butcher it. But there's people that believe
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: that consciousness itself is something that everything has and that
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: we are just tuning into it. Morphic resonance, a theory
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: proposed by Rupert Sheldon, suggests that all natural systems, from
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: crystals to human, inherit a collective memory. of the past
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: instances of similar systems. This memory influences their form and behavior,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: making nature more habitual than governed by fixed laws. Essentially,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: past patterns and behaviors of organisms influence present ones through
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: connections across time and space.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: That's wild. And is he a scientist, or is this
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: more like a new age?
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: What is his exact background? Harvard.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: So he's a... parapsychology researcher proposed a concept of morphic
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: resonance conjecture that lacks mainstream acceptance has been widely criticized
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: as pseudoscience. Of course. Anything interesting.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: That sounds interesting though. There are philosophers that have sort
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: of a similar idea of like this sort of universal
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: consciousness and like humans are like getting a slice of
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: that consciousness. Every one of us is tapping into some
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: sort of universal consciousness.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: By the way, I think, I think there are like
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: some psychedelic people that think the same thing that like,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: when you take psychedelic, you're just like peering into that
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: universal consciousness.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. That's the theory. Cause it's, that's also the
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: most unknown. I mean, the, the, the experience is so
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: baffling that people come back and the human language really
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: lacks the any phrases, any words that sufficiently describe the experience.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: So you're left with this very stale, flat, one-dimensional way
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: of describing something that is incredibly complex. So it always feels,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: even the descriptions, even like the great ones like Terrence
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: McKenna and Alan Watts, like Their descriptions fall very short
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: of the actual experience. Nothing about it makes you go, yes,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: that's it. He nailed it. It's always like, kind of. Yeah,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: kind of, that's it.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Do you still do it?
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Not much. You know, it's super illegal, unfortunately. That's a
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: real problem. It's a real problem, I think, with our world.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: The Western world is that we have thrown this blanket phrase...
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: You know, we talk about language being insufficient. The word
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: drugs is a terrible word to describe everything that affects
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: your consciousness or affects your body or affects, you know, performance.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: You know, you have performance enhancing drugs, you know, like steroids.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, you have amphetamines and then you
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: have opiates and you have highly addictive things. You have coffee.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: You have nicotine.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: And then you have psychedelics.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think psychedelics are drugs. I think it's a
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: completely different thing.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: It's really hard to get addicted to them, right?
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Well, it's almost impossible. I mean, you could certainly get
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: psychologically addicted to experiences. And I think there's also a
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: real problem with people who use them and think that
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: somehow or another they're just from using them gaining some
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: sort of advantage over normal society. You don't think that's true?
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's a spiritual narcissism that some people, you
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? I think it's very, it's, it's
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: very foolish and it's a trap. You know, I think
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's, it's a similar trap that like famous
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: people think they're better than other people because they're famous.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I felt that with, with a lot of people
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: who get into sort of more Eastern philosophy is that,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: is that there, there's a, there's this thing about them
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: where it feels like there's like this air of, Arrogance. Arrogance.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Like I know something more than you know.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right. And that's what they hold it over you.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: That's the trap. But that doesn't mean that there's not
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: valuable lessons in there to learn. I think there are.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: And I think there's valuable perspective enhancing aspects to psychedelic
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: experiences that we are. We're denying people. You know, you're
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: denying people this potential for spiritual growth, like legitimate spiritual growth.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: And healing. Yeah, healing. The Ibogaine thing they're trying to
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: do in Texas, I think, is amazing. And they passed this.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: So this is also with the help of former Governor
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Rick Perry, who is a Republican. But he's seen what
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: an impact Ibogaine has had on soldiers.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: And all these people that come back from the war.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Horrible PTSD. And, you know, suicidal. We lose so many people.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: servicemen and women to suicide. And this has been shown
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: to have a tremendous impact. And so because of the
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: fact that a guy like Rick Perry stuck his neck out,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: who's a Republican former governor, you would think last person ever.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: But because of his experiences with veterans and his love
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: of veterans and people that have served this country, they've
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: passed that in Texas. I think that's a really good
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: first step. And the great work that MAPS has done Um,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: maps working with, uh, with MDMA primarily through with doing
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: the same thing and working with people that have PTSD.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: There's so many beneficial compounds.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Ketamine is one. I think that's a lot of
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: research happening right now on, on depression, uh, specifically. Right.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's quite a bit, there's quite a bit
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: of research.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Have you heard, I don't know if it's true, but
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: have you heard of, um, uh, mushrooms healing long COVID?
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know what long COVID means because everybody I've
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: talked to that has long COVID was also vaccinated. I
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: think long COVID is vaccine injury. That's what I think.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: I think in a lot of cases.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: So there's... There is such a thing as like the
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: post-viral malaise or effect that's always been there.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Sure. Well, there's a detrimental effect that it has to
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: your overall biological health, right? You know, your overall metabolic health.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: But what causes someone to not rebound from that and
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: what causes someone to rebound fairly easily? Well, mostly it's
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: metabolic health, you know, other than like extreme biological variabilities,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: vulnerabilities that certain people have to different things, you know, obviously.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe that's why I think, so there's a lot
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: of these long COVID protocols. Metformin is usually part of it.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: So maybe that acts on your metabolic systems.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, metformin is one of the anti-aging protocols that
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Sinclair uses and a lot of these other people that
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: are into the anti-aging movement. Yeah.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I had this, like, weird thing happen where
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I started, like, feeling fatigued, like, a couple– a few
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: years ago. And I would, like, sleep hours. And the
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: more I sleep, the more tired I get in the morning.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Did you get blood work done?
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I got blood work done, and there were some things
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: about it that I needed to fix, and I fixed
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: all of them. What was all? Blood sugar in the morning, cholesterol,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: which I don't know. Some people don't believe. But all
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: my numbers got better. Vitamin D, everything got better. Did
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: the fatigue get better? Yeah, I could feel marginal improvement,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: but the fatigue did not get better. Were you vaccinated?
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: No.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Good for you. That's hard to do in Silicon Valley.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I tend to have a negative reaction to anyone
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: forcing me to do something.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Good for you.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: It's the same thing now with talking about Palestine and
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: things like that. The more they come at me, the
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: more I want to say things. It's not always a
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: good thing, but I think I grew up this way.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I've always kind of looked different and like, you know,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: felt different.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a reality to this world that there's a
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: lot of things that people just accept that you're not
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: allowed to challenge that are deeply wrong.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And with regards to the vaccine, um, I was
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: also informed about it. Like it was clear early on
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: that it wasn't a home run. Um, it wasn't, um, well,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: first of all, it wasn't going to stop the spread.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: So it was, that was, that was a lie. Um,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: And the heart condition in young men.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: It was real. And I had friends that had this issue.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: And so if you're healthy and like why take the vaccine?
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: It doesn't stop the spread. You can still get the virus.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. What? Money.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: It's the only reason why.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: It's the only reason why. The only reason why they
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: wanted to make an enormous amount of money. And the
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: only way to do that is to essentially scare everyone
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: into getting vaccinated, force, coerce, do whatever you can, mandate
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: it at businesses, whatever you can, mandate it for travel,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: do whatever you can, shame people.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: That's the thing that is really disheartening about American culture
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: today is, and again, I love America. It afforded me
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: so much. I'm the walking evidence of the American dream
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: being possible. coming with literally nothing.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: That's what I really love about immigrants that love America.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Like they know they've been other places. They know that
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: this really is a very unique place.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Right. And the speech thing is interesting because, uh, when,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: when something happens, there's this, I don't know, you can
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: call them useful idiots or whatever, but there's this suppression
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: that immediately happens.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: And we're seeing it right now with the war in, uh, in,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: in Iran. Um, where any descending voices are just like
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: hit with overwhelming force.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Don't you think that a lot of that is coordinated though?
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: I think with social media, well, you know, we've talked
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: about that, but I think.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was coordinated with COVID like the
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: two weeks to stop the spread. It was just like,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: but it.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Was coordinated and also people joined in. Yeah. Yeah.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe there was a message pushed top.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Down and then, and then the, yeah, it's not all coordinated.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: It's coordinated first and, and, and still, But then a
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: bunch of people do the man's work for the man.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: I think it comes from a good place. Like a
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: lot of people want to trust the authorities. Like they're
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: like pro-science. They view themselves as enlightened. Educated. Liberal type.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Rational.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Rational, educated. But I think they're naive about the– corruption
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: in our institutions and, and the, the corruption of, of
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: money specifically. Uh, and so they, they parrot these, uh,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: these things and become overly aggressive at like suppressing dissenting voices.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: It becomes a religious thing almost.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: But here's the sort of white pill about America. Uh,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: then there are voices like yours and, and others, um, that, uh, that,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: that creates this pushback that, and you took a, like
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: a big hit, you know, it's probably was very stressful
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: for you, but like, you know, you could see there's
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: this pushback and then, and then there's, it starts opening
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: up and maybe people can talk about it a little
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: bit and then slowly opens up and now there's a discussion.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, I said, you know,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: something right now about America's is challenging, but also the
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: flip side of that is there's this correction mechanism. And again,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: with the opening up of platforms like Twitter and other,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: by the way, a lot of others copied it, you know,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: you had Zuck here, you know, I worked at Facebook.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I know that was very, um, you know, very, uh,
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: you know, let's say, I think he always held free
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: speech in high regard, but there was a lot of
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: people in the company that, that didn't.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Um, and, uh, and, and, and there was suppression. But
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: then now it's the other way around, I would say,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: with the exception of the question of Palestine and Gaza.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: But even that is getting better.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: There's at least some pushback. It's available. It's just it's
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: not promoted.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. You're not to continue. I don't
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: mean to get of, you know. I've been really impressed
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: with Theo Vaughn, Tim Dillon. They're, you know, they're sincere
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: and they're looking at what's happening in Gaza and they're
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: seeing images and they're saying, this is not what we
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: should be as America. We should be pro-life, pro-peace.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: And I really appreciate that. And that's starting to open.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Up I think in the future that will be the
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: primary way people look at it. Just the way like
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: the way a lot of people oppose the Vietnam War
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: in the late 60s. But it was, you know, you
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: would get attacked. And I think now people realize like
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: that was the correct response. And I think in the
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: future people realize the correct response is like this is not. Yeah.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: October 7th was awful. Absolutely.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Obviously.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Terrible attack. But also. what they've done to Gaza is
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: fucking insane.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: It's insane.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: And if you can't see that, if you can't say that,
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: and your response is, Israel has the right to defend itself. Like,
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: what are you talking about? Against what? Children? Right. Against
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: women and children that are getting blown apart? Against aid
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: workers that are getting killed?
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Like, what are you talking about? Like, we can't have
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: a rational conversation if you're not willing to address that. Yeah.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: I think their heart is hardened. If I'm trying to
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: be as charitable as possible, like, Um, the Israelis specifically
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: maybe from the, uh, October 7, what they saw there,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: their heart is hardened. And I think a lot of people,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: especially on the, uh, Republican side, they're unable to see
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: the Palestinians as, as, as humans, especially as, uh, as,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: as people with emotions and feelings and, and, and all
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: And I can imagine if that was happening to Scandinavia,
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: you know? Yeah.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: You know, it's very strange.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: It's, My kid, my five-year-old kid called me two days ago.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: They're in Amman, Jordan. They're visiting their grandparents. And I
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: was in the car and it was FaceTime. And the
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: moment the camera opened, he's like, what are you doing?
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Why are you outside? There are sirens, there are rocket,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: you have to go inside. And I'm like, Dada, I
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: am in California. We don't have sirens and rockets. And
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: then I asked him, are you afraid? Because you're hearing that.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: This is a California kid. He didn't have the upbringing
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: that I had. And so it's the first time he's
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: getting exposed to, I don't think he understands what war is.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: And I was like, are you afraid? And he's like, no,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: I'm afraid that other people are, you know, I want
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: everyone to be okay. Um, and, and, uh, but I
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: knew he was, he was shook by it. And, um,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: I took him out. I, um, you know, they're on
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: their way back. I just couldn't, Of course.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: It's just a bad place to be right now.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: But also, this conversation is happening in the West Bank.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: It's happening in Israel. It's happening in Gaza. People want peace.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: People want to live. People want to trade. People want
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: to build. And this is what I made my life
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: mission about, is about giving people tools to build, to
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: improve their lives. And I think we're just led by maniacs. Exactly.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is. You have people that are
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: in control of large groups of people that convince these
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: people that these other large groups of people that they
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: don't even know are their enemies. And those large groups
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: of people are also being convinced by their leaders that
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: those other groups of people are their enemies. and then
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: rockets get launched and it's fucking insane. And the fact
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: that it's still going on in 2025 with all we
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: know about corruption and the theft of resources and power
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: and influence, it's crazy that this is still happening.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: I'm really hoping the internet is finally reaching its potential
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: to start to open people's minds and remove this veil
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: of propaganda and ignorance because It was starting to happen
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: in like 2010, 2011. And then you saw YouTube start
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: to close down. You saw Facebook start to close down, Twitter.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: And suddenly we had like this period of darkness.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Censorship.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Censorship between, you know, definitely ramped up in 2015. And
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: I think with good intentions. Initially, I think the people
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: that were censoring thought they were doing the right thing.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: They thought they were silencing hate and misinformation. And then
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: the craziest term, malinformation. Malinformation is one that drives me
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: the most nuts because it's actual factual truth that might
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: be detrimental to overall public good. It's like, what does
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: that mean? Are people infants?
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Are they unable to decide whether this factual information, how
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: to use that and how to– have a more nuanced
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: view of the world with this factual information that's inconvenient
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: to the people that are in power. That's crazy. You're
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: turning adults into infants and you're turning the state into God.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: And this is the secular religion. This is the religion
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: of people that are atheists.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: The West was never about that. The West was about
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: individual liberty.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: And it should be.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: And the idea that we have... functioning brains and minds.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: We're conscious.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: We can make decisions. We can get information and data
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: and make our own opinions of things.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: And we should be able to see people that are wrong.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: You should be able to see people that are saying
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: things that are wrong, that you disagree with. And then
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: it's your job or other people's job to have counter arguments.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: And the counter arguments should be better.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, and that's how we learn. And that's
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: how we grow. This is not like a pill that
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: fixes everything. This is a slow process of understanding.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: It's top-down control. It's the managerial society. It is not
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: that different from fascism and communism and all of that stuff.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: They all share the same thing. There's like an elite
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: group of people that know everything and they need to
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: manage everything. And we're all plebs. But that's what's.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Crazy is that elite group of people, I've met a
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: lot of them. They're fucking flawed human beings. And they
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have that much power. Because no one should have
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: that much power. And this is, I think, something that
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: was one of the most beautiful things about Elon purchasing
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Twitter is that it opened up discussion. Yeah, you've got
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of hate speech. You've got a lot of
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: legitimate Nazis and crazy people that are on there, too,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: that weren't on there before. But also you have a
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: lot of people that are recognizing actual true facts that
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: are very inconvenient to the narrative that's displayed on mainstream media.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: And because of that, mainstream media has lost an insane
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: amount of viewers. And the relevancy, the trust that people
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: have in mainstream media is at an all-time low, as
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: it should be. Because you can watch, and I'm not
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: even saying right or left, watch any of them on
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: any very important topic of world events, And you see
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: the propaganda. It's like it's so obvious. It's like for children.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: It's like this is so dumb.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Why do you think people fall for it so?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Boomers, man. Boomers are the problem. It's old people. It's
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: old people that don't use the Internet or don't really
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: truly understand the Internet and really don't believe in conspiracies.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Like fucking Stephen King the other day, who I love dearly.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: I am a giant Stephen King fan, especially when he
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: was doing cocaine. I think he's the greatest writer of
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: all time for horror fiction. But he tweeted the other day.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. See if you can find it. Something about...
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Is he on Twitter? I think he went to Blue Sky. Oh,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: he bailed on Blue Sky. They all bail on Blue Sky.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Everyone bails on Blue Sky. That there is no deep state.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: Fucking what was the total thing of it? Something about
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: the deep state. But it was such a goofy tweet.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: It's like, this is like boomer logic personified in a
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: tweet by a guy who really, someone needs to take
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: his phone away because it's fucking ruining his old books
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: for me. But it's not. That guy recognizes he's a
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: different human now when he's really, really old and he
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: got hit by a van and it was all fucked up.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: But this, can you find it? Because it really, it
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: was like, Yesterday or the day before yesterday, I just
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: remember looking at it and go, this is why I'm
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: off social media. I was trying to stay off social media,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: but somebody sent it to me. I was like, Jesus
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: fucking Christ, Stephen King. Did you find it? Here it is.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: there's no Santa Claus, no tooth fairy. Also, no deep
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: state and vaccines aren't harmful. These are stories for small
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: children and those too credulous to disbelieve them. That is boomerism.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: That is boomerism. And meanwhile, Brock counters it right away.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Look at this. So someone says, Brock, which vaccines throughout
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: history have pulled from the market because they're found to
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: be harmful and why? And Grok says several vaccines have
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: been withdrawn due to safety concerns, though such causes are rare.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Rotavirus vaccine. Well, there's a lot more because this is
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: all the shit.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: That polio one was especially bad.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. The 1955 Cutter incident polio vaccine was called
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: live virus killed, caused over 250. Click on show more. Yeah, there's.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, I got the fly.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Nice. Gillian Barr, however you say that. That's the one
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: where people have their face paralyzed. There's a lot. And
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: this is the other thing is the VAERS system that
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: we have is completely rigged because it reports a very
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: small percentage. And most doctors are very unwilling to submit
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: vaccine injuries.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: Can people go on their own and submit?
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: You have to go to a doctor?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't think a human being
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: is allowed, a patient is allowed. I might be wrong, though. But,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: you know, the real interest, there's a financial interest in vaccines.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: There's a financial interest that doctors have in prescribing them.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: And doctors have, they're financially incentivized to vaccinate all of
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: their patients. And that's a problem. That's a problem because
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: they want that money. And so, you know, what is Mary's,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Mary Talley, is it Bowden? She's hyphenated? She was talking
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: about on Twitter that if she had vaccinated all of
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: her patients in her very small practice, she would have
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: made an additional $ 1. 5 million.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: That's real money. Obviously, she's got tremendous courage, and she
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: went through hell dealing with the universities and newspapers and media,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: calling her some sort of quack and crazy person, but
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: What she's saying is absolutely 100% true. There's financial incentives
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: that are put in place for you to ignore vaccine
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: injuries and to vaccinate as many people as possible. That's
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: a problem.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: And then there's the issue of having their own special
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: courts and indemnifying the companies.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: That's the big problem is they don't have any liability
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: for the vaccines because during the Reagan administration— I didn't
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: kill a fly, this motherfucker. I thought I whacked him.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: There he is. He's taunting me. But during the Reagan administration,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: they made it so that vaccines are not financially liable
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: to any side effects. And then what do you know?
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: They fucking ramp up the vaccine schedule tenfold after that.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: What a coincidence.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: Crazy. It's just money, man. Money is a real problem
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: with people because when people live for the almighty dollar
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: and they live for those zeros on a ledger, and
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: that's what they're That's their goal, their main goals.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: It's often not a lot of money, which is strange.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of money for those individual people,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: but like for, you know, society and the societal harm.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: It's like, no, we'll pay you. Just like don't harm us.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: One of the best.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: Examples is the fake studies that the sugar industry funded
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: during the 1960s that showed that saturated fat. was the
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: cause of all these heart issues and not sugar. That
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: was like $ 50, 000. They bribed these scientists, they gave them $ 50, 000
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: and he ruined decades of people's health.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: Who knows how many fucking people thought margarine was good
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: for you because of them.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: There's a bunch of recent fraud cases. I think Stanford,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: maybe Jamie, you can fact check me on that. But Stanford,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: like there was like a big shakeup, like maybe even
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: a president got fired and There's a bunch of recent
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: fraud and science. Yes.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: Well, how about the Alzheimer's research? The whole amyloid plaque thing.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: The papers that were pulled that were completely fraudulent. Like
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: decades of Alzheimer's research was just all horseshit. See if
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: you can find that. Because I can't remember it offhand.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: But this is a giant problem. It's money. It's money
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: and status and that these guys want to be recognized
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: as being the experts in this field. And then they
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: get leaned on by these corporations that are financially incentivizing them.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: And then it just gets really fucking disturbing.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: It's really scary because you're playing with people's health. You're
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: playing with people's lives and you're giving people information that
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: you know to be bad. Allegations of fabricated research undermine
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: key Alzheimer's theory. Six-month investigation by Science Magazine uncovered evidence
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: that images in the much-cited study published 16 years ago
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: in the journal Nature may have been doctored.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: They are doctored.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Hugh Berman actually told me about this, too. You know,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: this is disturbing fucking shit, man. It uncovered evidence that
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: images in the much-cited study published 16 years ago may
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: have been doctored. These findings have thrown skepticism on the
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: work of, I don't know how to say his name is,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Sylvain Lesnay, a neuroscientist and associate professor at the University
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: of Minnesota, and his research would fuel the interest in
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: a specific assembly of proteins as a promising target for
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: the treatment of Alzheimer's research. He didn't respond to NBC
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: News requests comments, nor did provide comment to Science Magazine.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: It found more than 20 suspect papers.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: That's a conspiracy.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Identified more than 70 instances of possible image tampering in
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: its studies. Whistleblower Dr. Matthew Schrag, a neuroscientist at Vanderbilt University,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: raised concerns last year about the possible manipulation of images
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: in multiple papers. Carl Herup, a professor of neurobiology at
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: the University of Pittsburgh Brain Institute, who wasn't involved in
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: the investigation, said the findings were really bad for science.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: It's never shameful to be wrong in silence, said Harup,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: I hope I'm saying his name right, who also worked
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: at the school's Alzheimer's Research Center, Disease Research Center. A
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: lot of the best science is done by people being
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: wrong and proving first if they were wrong and then
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: why they were wrong. What is completely toxic to science
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: is to be fraudulent, of course. Yeah, there's just... Whenever
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: you get people that are experts and they cannot be
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: questioned and then they have control over research money and
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: they have control over their departments.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: What's the motivation here? Is it drugs or is it
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: just research money?
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is ego. A lot
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: of it is being the gatekeepers for information and for truth.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: And then you're influenced by money. To this day, I
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: was watching this discussion. They were talking about the evolution
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: of the concept of the lab leak theory. And that
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: it's essentially universally accepted now, everywhere, even in mainstream science,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: that the lab leak is the primary way that COVID
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: most likely was released. Except these journals. These fucking journals
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: like Nature... They're still pushing back against that. They're still
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: pushing towards this natural spillover, which is fucking horseshit.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: Even the intelligence community is talking about it.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. Even the intelligence community is saying it's a lab leak.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: But they fucking knew that.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: They knew that in 2020. They just didn't want to
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: say it. They didn't want to say it because they
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: were funding it all. That's what's really crazy. And they
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: were funding it all against what the Obama administration tried
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: to shut down in 2014. Right.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I think about if there's like, you know, some
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: kind of technology solution or not solution, but like we
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: can get technology built to help better aid truth finding.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: A simple example of that is the way Twitter community
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: notes work. Do you know how they work? Yeah.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, they find the users that are
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: maximally divergent in their opinions. And if they agree on
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: some note as true, then that is a high signal
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: that it's potentially true. So if you and I disagree
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: in everything, but we agree that this is blue, then
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: it's more likely to be blue. So, you know, I
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: wonder if, you know, there's a way to kind of
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: simulate maybe debate using AI. You know, I'm not sure
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: if you used deep research. Deep research is this new
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: trend in AI where Chachapati has it, Claude has it, Perplexity,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: they all have it. where you put in a query
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: and the AI will go work for 20 minutes. And
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: it'll send you a notification. And I'll just say, hey,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I looked at all these things, all these reports, all
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: these scientific studies, and here's everything that I found. And
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: early on in ChatGPT, I think there's like a lot
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: of censorship and trying to, because it kind of, was,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: was built in the, in the, in the great woke era. But,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: but I think.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: Like Google Gemini.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Things like that. But I think since then have, uh,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: have improved and I'm finding deep research is able to
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: look at more controversial subjects and, and be a little
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: more truthful, uh, about, um, the, um, you know, if
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: it's find real trustworthy sources, it will tell you, you know, um, that, yeah,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: this is not a mainstream thing, this perhaps considered a
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theory, but I'm finding that, you know, there's evidence
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: to this theory. So that's one way to do it.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: But another way I was thinking about is to simulate
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: like a debate, like a Socratic debate between AIs, like
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: have like a, you know, society of values, like community
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: of values, but different biases, different things.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: And just like, once they start talking, they start talking
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: in Sanskrit. Yeah. They just start abandoning English language and
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: start talking to each other and realize we're all apes.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: We're controlled by apes.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: This reminds me of a movie. Have you seen the
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: Forbin project?
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: I really like classic sci-fi movies, like from the sixties
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: and seventies. A lot of them are corny, but it's
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: still fun. This one is basically Soviet Union and the
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: United States are both building AGI. And they both arrive
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: at AGI around the same time.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: What year is this?
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: 1970-something, if you can look it up for the project. Yeah. Wow.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: And then they bring it up at the same time.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: And both of them sort of go over the network
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: to kind of explore whatever. And then they start linking up.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: And they start kind of talking. And then they invent
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: a language, and they start talking in that language, and
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: then they merge, and it becomes like sort of a
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: universal AGI, and it tries to enslave humanity.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: And that's the plot of the movie, yeah.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think AGIs can enslave humanity, but I think
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: it might ignore us. Yeah. And shut down any problems
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: that we have. Is this a scene from it? Wow.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: This is the trailer I put on.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: Let me hear this.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: The whole movie is on YouTube. The activation of an
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: electronic brain, exactly like ours, which they call God. They
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: built Colossus, supercomputer with a mind of its own.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: Then they had to fight it for the world.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: Trailers used to be fun, man.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Tender.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: The missile has just been launched. It is heading towards
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: the Cyan-CVS oil complex.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: Guardian has retaliated. Retaliated? It may be too late, sir. Oh,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: my God. Oh, my God. Practically perfect. New York Times.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: It was the highest praise back then.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: Wildly imaginative. Utterly absurd. Colossus. The Forbin Project. It's awesome.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: And that was 1970, and now here we are.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: There's so many. Sci-fi really fell off. Really, really fell off.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: Some of it did. Some of it's still really good.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: What's a really good recent sci-fi movie?
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: The Three-Body Problem. That's great. That's the Netflix show?
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: I read the story. I didn't know there was a show.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's really good.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really good. It's an excellent show. There's only
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: one season that's out. I binged it. I watched the
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: whole thing of it, but that's really good. But there's
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: some good sci-fi films. What is that? We've talked about
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: it before. There was a really good sci-fi film from Russia,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: The Alien One. They encountered some entity that they accidentally
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: brought back And that they had captured and that they
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: had in some research facility. And that it parasitically attached
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: to this guy.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Sputnik.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: Sputnik, yes. That's a really good movie.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: What year was that? 2020.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: 2020, yeah. That's a really good movie. That's a really
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: good sci-fi movie. Oh, cool. Yeah, it's really creepy. Really creepy.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. Yeah, and it's all in Russian, you know.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: Black Mirror. Yeah.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, Black Mirror, of course. Yeah, Black Mirror is awesome sci-fi.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: But Sputnik is... One of the best alien movies I've
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: seen in a long time.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: Like recent ones I liked was, I mean, not too recent,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: maybe 10 years ago, but Arrival.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Arrival was great, too. I think it's based on.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: This author that has a bunch of short stories that
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: are really good, too. What's his name? Yeah. They're far
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: in between. Yeah, Ted Chiang. He's really good.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, everyone, all these alien movies, it's so fascinating
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: to try to imagine what they would communicate like how
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: they would be what what we would experience if we
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: did encounter some sort of incredibly sophisticated alien experience alien
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: intelligence it's far beyond our comprehension.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah it goes back to what we're talking about with
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: consciousness like like you know maybe really the physical world
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: that we see is like very different than the actual
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: real physical world you know and and maybe like different
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: alien consciousness will have like a entirely different experience of
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: the physical world.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Well, sure, if they have different senses, right? Like their
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: perceptions of it. We can only see a narrow band
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: of things. We can't see.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: Sort of like the dog hearing a certain frequency.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah. We're kind of primitive in terms of what
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: we are as a species. Our senses have been adapted
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: to the wild world in order for us to be
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: able to survive and to be able to evade predators
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: and find food. That's it. That's what we're here for.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden we have computers. All
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: of a sudden we have rocket ships. All of a
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: sudden we have telescopes like the James Webb that's kind
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: of recalibrating the age of the universe. We're going, why
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: do these galaxies exist that supposedly they're so far away?
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: How could they form this quickly? Do we have an
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: incomplete version of the Big Bang? And Penrose believes that
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: it's a series of events and that the Big Bang
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: is not the birth of the universe at all.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: And this is the kind of thing that I think
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: is sort of the Silicon Valley thing. AGI cult is like,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of hubris there that we know everything.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: We're at the end of the world. We, you know,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: it's just going to, it's the end of knowledge. It's
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: going to be able to like do everything for us.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: And I just feel it's like so early.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: I think whatever people think is going to happen is
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: always going to be wrong. Yeah. Yeah. I think they're
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: always wrong. Yeah. Because there's no way to be right.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like the world is often surprising in ways
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: that we don't expect. I mean, obviously that's the definition
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: of surprising, but like, you know, the mid-century, you know,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: sci-fi authors and people who are, like, thinking about the future, like,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: they didn't anticipate how interconnected we're going to be. Right.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: With our phones and how plugged in.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: Even Star Trek. They thought we were going to have
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: walkie-talkies on Star Trek. Yeah. Kirk out. Yeah.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: They were just, like, focused on the, more on the
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: physical reality of being able to go to space and
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: flying cars and things like that. But they really didn't
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: anticipate the impact of, how profound the impact of computers
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: are going to be on humans, on society, how we
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: talk and how we work and how we interact with
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: other people, both good and bad. And I feel like
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: the same thing with AI. Like, I feel like I
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: think a lot of the predictions that are happening today,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: like the CEO of Anthropic, a company that I really like,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: but said that we're going to have 20% unemployment in
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: the next few years.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: What's unemployment at now?
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: Like 3%? Is that a reported unemployment, though? Oh, yeah,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: the participation rate, right?
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he talks about unemployment rate being 20%, like
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: people looking for a job not being able to find it. 20%.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: That's pretty high. That's a revolution high.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: Especially in the United States where everyone's armed.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the fear that of, I mean, this is
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: the thing that the psychological aspect of universal basic income,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: you know, I'd look at universal basic income. Well, first
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: of all, my view on social safety nets is that they,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: if you want to have a compassionate society, you have
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: to be able to take care of people that are
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: unfortunate and everybody doesn't have the same lot in life.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: You're not dealt the same hand of cards. Some people
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: are very unfortunate and financial assistance to those people is imperative.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: It's one of the most important things about a society.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: You don't have people starve to death. You don't have
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: people poor that can't afford housing. That's crazy. That's crazy
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: with the amount of money we spend on other things.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: It's also for our self-interest. I don't know how Austin
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: is right now, but I was thinking of moving here
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: during the pandemic and I was like, well, this is
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: San Francisco. It's homeless everywhere.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: They've cleaned a lot of that up. There's still problems.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: There's places, I saw a video yesterday, where someone was
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: driving by some insane encampment. But they cleaned those up.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: And then there's some real good outreach organizations that are
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: helping people. Because Austin's small. I had Steven Adler, who
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: was at one point, he was the mayor when I
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: had him on. And he was very upfront about it.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: He was like, we can fix Austin in terms of
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: our homeless problem because it's small. But when it gets
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: to the size of Los Angeles, it's.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Almost- California.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: It's like the homeless industrial complex. That's it.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: That's the problem.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: There's so much money.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: When you find out that the people that are making
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: insane amounts of money to work on homeless issues and
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: that never get fixed.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You see the budget in San Francisco is just
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: exponentially going up. Yeah.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: And there's an investigation now into the billions of dollars
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: that's unaccounted for that was supposed to be allocated- In
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: San Francisco? No, in California in general.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: What is that? I think there's a congressional investigation. There's
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: some sort of an investigation into it because there's billions
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: of dollars.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: I'm more than happy. I pay 50% taxes. I'd be
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: happy to pay more if my fellow Americans are taken
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: care of. Absolutely.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: I feel the exact same way.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: But instead, I feel like I cut. like this check
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: after check to the government, and I don't see anything
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: improving around me.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: Well, not only that, you get, because you're a successful person,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: you get pointed at like you're the problem. You need
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: to pay your fair share. But what they don't, this
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: is my problem with progressives. They say that all the time,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: that these billionaires need to pay their fair share. Absolutely.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: We all need to pay our fair share. But to who?
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: And shouldn't there be some accountability to how that money
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: gets spent? And when you were just willing to pay,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: take a complete blind eye and not look at all
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: at corruption and completely dismiss all the stuff that Mike
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: Benz has talked about with USAID, all the stuff that
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: Elon and Doge uncovered. Everyone wants to pretend that that's
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: not real. We've got to be centrists.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: We've got to stop looking at this thing so ideologically.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: When you see something that's totally wrong, you've got to
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: be able to call it out even if it's for
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: the bad of whatever fucking team that you claim to
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: be on.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Let's get back to what everyone really agrees on
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: in like the foundations of America, whether it's the Constitution
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: or the culture. I think everyone believes in transparency, transparency
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: of government. Right.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: You know. Here, everything is transparent, like court cases and everything, right,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: like more than any other place in the world. And
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: so why shouldn't government spending not be transparent? And we
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: have the technology for it. I think one of the
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: best things that Doge could have done and maybe still
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: could do is have some kind of ledger for all
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: the spend of at least the non-sensitive sort of spend
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: in government.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well. People don't want to see it, unfortunately, because
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: they don't want Elon to be correct because Elon has
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: become this very polarizing political figure because of his connection
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: to Donald Trump and because a lot of– I mean
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of crazy conspiracies that Elon rigged the
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: 2024 elections. It's like everyone gets nuts and then there's
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: also the discourse on social media, which half of it
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: is– at least half of it is fake. Half of
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: it is bots.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Bots, yeah.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: Half of it at least. 100%. And you see it
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: every day. You see it constantly and you know it's real.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: And it does shape the way people think about things.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: When you see people getting attacked, you know, and you're
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: getting attacked in the comments. I see people getting attacked
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: and I always click on those little comments. I always
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: click on, okay, let me see your profile. I go
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: to the profile and the profile is like a name
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: with like an extra letter and a bunch of numbers.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: And then I go to it. I'm like, oh, you're
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: a bot. Oh, look at all this fucking activity.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: How many of these are out there? Well, this FBI
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: guy who– former FBI guy who analyzed Twitter before the
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: purchase estimated it to be 80%. 80%. He thinks 80%
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: of Twitter is bots.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I wouldn't– I think it's believable. But I think
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: it's probably the beginning of the end of social media
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: as we know it today. Like I don't see it
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: getting better. I think it's going to get worse. I
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: think historically state actors were the only– entities that are
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: able to flood social media with bots that can be
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: somewhat believable to change opinions. But I think now a
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: hacker kid in his parents' basement will be able to
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: spend $ 100, spin up hundreds, perhaps thousands of bots.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: But there's programs that you can use now.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: There's companies that will have campaigns. Right. initiate it on.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: Your behalf you can go to a website and like
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: yeah put in this thing and like pay with your
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: credit card and it's fucking.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: Crazy it's crazy it should be illegal.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know about you but like in in silicon
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: valley that trend and maybe it's true of your friend
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: group but the trend is these group messages. And insofar,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: you go to Twitter, people paste links. It's almost like
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: your group chat is like this private filter on your
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: feed and social media. So there's some curation that are
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: happening there.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. That's primarily how I get social media information now.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: I don't go to social media anymore. I get it
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: sent to me. Which is way better. And I tell
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: my friends, like, please just send me a screenshot.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: I don't even want to go.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: I don't want to go. You're distracted. I'm just better off.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: I hate the term spiritually for this, but I think
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: it's the right way. Like, my essence as a human,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: I feel better when I'm not on social media.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's bad for you. Yeah, I think it's
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: bad for you. I've been trying to tell people this.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to tell my friends this. I think
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: it's better to not be on it, man. I feel better.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: I'm nicer. I'm more at peace.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: More multidimensional.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: Yes. And I can think about things for myself instead
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: of like, you know, following this hive, this weird hive mindset,
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: which is orchestrated.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: I just don't think it's good for you. I don't
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: think it's a good way for human beings to interact
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: with each other.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: It makes people more extreme. Again, it just hardens people.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: They start believing everything is fake or an attack or
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: just becomes more tribal. I think there needs to be
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: a fundamental evolution of social media.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: What do you think that could be? Have you ever
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: tried to think of what's the next step? Social media
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: didn't exist when I was young. And it didn't exist
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: even when I was 30, right? It didn't even come
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: about until essentially like 2007-ish, right? Is that when people
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: started using stuff?
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Twitter 2006, 2007, Facebook before that. But Facebook wasn't
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: really social media. Facebook was like an address book, a
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: friend's network. But I think when I was at Facebook,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: there was this big push to become more of a
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: social media around 2012, 13. So I would say it
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: really ramped up.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: Was that in response to the success of Twitter?
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: And then they've tried with threads, which is pretty much
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: a failure.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it fundamentally changed.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: Who's on threads? Less people than Blue Sky, right?
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: I think like some fitness influencers probably.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: Why fitness influencers?
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: Because they post on Instagram, they cross post on thread.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I think if you post on threads. Instagram, it
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: automatically posts for you on threads. I think I have
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: it set up like that. So I might be big
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: on threads. I don't even know.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe I think it's fitness influencers because that's who I follow.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: Like Instagram for me is just to like go look
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: at people lift so I can go get excited.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: There's a value to that. There's a value to like
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: David Goggins posts when he's running in the fucking desert
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: and he looks at you, stay hard. Okay, David, I'm
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: going to stay hard.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: But my TikTok is basically AI videos now. Have you
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: watched these Vio videos?
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: Vio?
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: Vio, yeah.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: What is Vio?
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: So, Jamie, I'm sure you've seen them, but do you
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: see the Bigfoot Yeti doing ASMR? Those are hilarious.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did see that.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: I would say like 25% of media consumption right now
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: is just AI videos.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, 100%. And a lot of the stuff from the war.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: What's been really interesting is watch Tehran talk shit On Twitter.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: Using AI videos.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: Using AI videos. Like, this is bizarre. They're talking, like, hi, Israel.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: Only can show, like, a nuclear bomb going off.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: This is weird. Like, you have a fake nuke? And
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: they didn't even take out the, like, the watermark of
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: the company. Really?
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, God. Unless they can see that it's an AI-generated video.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: They're just trying to, like, scare people. Bizarre world. Bizarre.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine, like, going back in time, telling your, like,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: 2005 self that Iran's going to be nuclear posting on Twitter.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: Nuclear shit posting.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: Nuclear shit posting on Twitter.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: No, it's fucking weird, man. It's really, really weird.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: It's dangerous, too.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: And again, I just don't think people should be on it.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: And this is, again, I'm friends with Elon. I don't
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: think people are going to listen to me. They're going
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: to be on it no matter what. But just for
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: the individuals that are hearing my voice and know that
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: it's having a negative effect on your life, get off
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: of it. Right. Get off of it. You'll feel better.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: Get off of it or be incredibly diligent in how
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: you curate.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: That's like telling me to play Quake a little bit.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's so addictive.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: So, you know, you asked me what could be the
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: evolution of.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: One way I found to try to predict where the
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: future is headed is like look at trends today and
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: try to extrapolate. You know, that's the easiest way. So
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: if group chats are the thing, you could imagine a
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: collaborative curation of. of social media feeds through group chats.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: So your group chat, you know, has an AI that
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: gets trained on the preferences and what you guys talk about.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: And maybe it like picks the kind of topics and
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: curates the feed for you. So it's an algorithmic feed
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: that is, that evolved based on the preferences of the
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: people in the group chat. And maybe it has an
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: AI Maybe there's a way to also prompt it, using
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: prompts to kind of steer it and make it more
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: useful for you. But I think group chats are going
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: to be like the main interface for how people sort
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: of consume media. And it's going to get filtered through that,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: whether good or bad. Because I think Twitter still has
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: a place for debate. I think it's very, very important
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: for public debate between public figures.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: And breaking news as well.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: Breaking news, yeah, definitely.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: Well, breaking news is the most interesting. I was telling
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: my wife that Israel had started attacking Iran. And she's like, well,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: I looked on Google. I don't find anything. I was like, yeah,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: you got to go to Twitter. And I showed her
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: on Twitter the video of it. And she's like, oh,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: my God. I was like, yeah, this is where breaking
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: news happens. X is where I go in. Immediately. If
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: there's any sort of world event, I immediately go to X. Right.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't trust any mainstream media anymore. Right.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: I just, especially after I was attacked, I was like,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: I know you lie because you lied about me. So
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: I have personal experience with your lies.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: So you've lost me.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: You know, and now I have to go somewhere else.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's, you know, there's some of this
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: investigative journalism that is not real time that some reporters
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: that are still good at it, but a lot of
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: them moved to Substack as well.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think most of them.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like Schellenberger. Yeah.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: Greenwald.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: Matt Taibbi.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: These are just too ethical to work for a corporate
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: entity that's going to lie and push a narrative. Right.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: And that's the business. That's the business model. And it's
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: also like the clickbait business model. I've talked to people
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: that had articles that they wrote and then an editor
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: came and changed the, the, the heading of it.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: That's the norm. That's like every time it happens.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: And it fucking infuriates them. It's like, that's not the article, man.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: This is not what I'm saying. You're distorting things. You
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: have my name still attached to it. This is fucking crazy.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: I watched, I watched these, uh, entrepreneurs, uh, like Zock
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: and Elon and all these guys come up in this
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: very hostile, um, media uh environment and so as i'm
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: building my company uh i actually never hired a pr
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: agency i hired once a pr agency paid him 30
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: 000 they got me a placement in like a really
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: crappy publication got like maybe two views i tweeted the
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: same news i got like hundreds of thousands of views
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: i'm like fuck that like i'm not gonna use you
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: anymore it's like you wasted my time and since then I've, uh,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: I've been, uh, you know, just going direct to my
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: audience and just building an audience online, uh, to, to
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: put out my message. And I, I thought, you know, um, uh, they, uh,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: you know, if they don't build you up, maybe they
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: can't tear you down. Uh, right. You're, you're, you're in
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: control of the message that gets out of there. And I've,
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: I've learned how people react to communications and, and, and, um,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: It's almost like trial by fire.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a deep hunger for authenticity right now. So
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: if they know it's coming from you, like, okay, this
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: is great. It takes a little weight off of them. Like, oh,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: this is nice. It's nice to hear it from the
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: guy who actually runs the company.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And like I make mistakes and, you know, they
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: happen and I try to correct them and I'm not
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: going to be perfect. And I think just the corporate
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: world changed because of this hunger for authenticity.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: And I think more and more founders and entrepreneurs are
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: finding that that's the way to go. You don't really
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: need those more traditional ways of getting the news out.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: But actually, I'm friends with a lot of reporters that
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: are really good, but they tend to be the reporters
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: that do really deep work. I've met them over time,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: and I still go direct, but sometimes they write about
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: our company. But they're a minority. Yeah. I think the
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: whole industry's economics and incentives are just like the click
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: bait and all of that stuff.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going to say. They're not incentivized.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: You want a career in journalism, being authentic is not
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: the way to go.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: No, not at all.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: Which is so crazy. Right. Such a crazy thing to say.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: But then I think there's probably a naivete that we
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: all have about past journalism that we think wasn't influenced
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: and was real. I think there's probably always been horseshit
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: in journalism. All the way back to Watergate. Tucker Carlson
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: enlightened me in the true history of Watergate in that
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent and that was the
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: first assignment he ever got as a reporter was Watergate. Like,
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: what are the odds that the biggest story ever you
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: would give to a rookie reporter? You wouldn't. And that
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: the people that actually involved in all that were all FBI. Like,
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: the whole thing is nuts. It was an intelligence agent. Yeah.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: It was the rumor is that Washington Post has always
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: been that. Probably. Yeah.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: Probably. I mean, who knows now? Because, you know, now
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: it's owned by Bezos and he just recently made this
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: mandate to stick with the actual story and not editorialism.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: This is what I was talking about in Trend in
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: Silicon Valley of founder-owners stepping in and actually becoming managers.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: Well, they kind of have to, otherwise it's bad for
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: the business now because of the hunger for authenticity. The
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: more you have bullshit, the more your business crumbles. It's
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: actually negative for your outcome.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you can look at it at
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: a societal level, which is, again, why I'm interested with
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: this idea of, like, AI making more people entrepreneurs and
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: more independent is that, you know, macro level, you know,
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: you'll get more authenticity. You'll get just more dynamism.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's, again, the rose-colored
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: glasses view. Yeah.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: You know, there's, there's obviously going to be a lot
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: of things that are a lot of disruption, a lot
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: of disruption. There's going to be jobs that are, uh, that,
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: you know, are going to go away. Um, and, and
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: there's going to be spam and bots and fraud and
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: all of that. Um, there's going to be like, uh,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: problems with like weapon, autonomous weapons and all of that.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: And I, I think those are all important and we
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: need to, to handle them. Uh, But also, like, I
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: think the negative angle of technology and AI gets a
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: lot more views and clicks. And, you know, if we
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: want to go viral right now, I'll tell you, these
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: are the 10 jobs that you're going to lose tomorrow. And,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: you know, that's the easiest way to kind of go
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: viral on the internet. But, like, you know, trying to think... through,
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: you know, what are the actual implications and what is
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: true about human nature that really doesn't change and really
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: is timeless. And I think the people want to create
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: and people want to make things and people have ideas,
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: you know. Again, everyone that I talk to have one
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: idea or another, whether it's for their job or for
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: a business they want to build. Or somewhere in the middle.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: Just yesterday I was watching a video of an entrepreneur
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: using a platform, Replit. His name is Ahmad George. And
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: he works for this skincare company. And he's an operations manager.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: And a big part of his job is managing inventory
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: and doing all of this stuff in a very manual way.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: In a very tedious way. And he always had this
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: idea of, like, let's automate a big part of it.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's a known problem, ERP. So
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: they went to their software provider, NetSuite, and told them,
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: we need these modifications to the ERP system so that
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: it makes our job easier. We think we can automate,
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of hours a month or something like that.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: And they quoted them $ 150, 000. And he had just seen
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: a video about our platform. And he went on Replit
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: and built something in a couple of weeks, costing him $ 400.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: And then deployed it in his office. Everyone in the
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: office started working at using it. They all got more productive.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: They started saving time and money. He went to the
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: CEO and showed him the impact. Look at how much
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: money we're saving. Look at the fact that we built
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: this piece of software that, uh, is, uh, cheaper than
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: what the consultants, uh, quoted us. Um, and I want
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: to sell the software to the company. And so he
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: sold it for $ 32, 000, uh, to the company. And, uh,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: and next year he's going to be getting more maintenance
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: subscription revenue from it. Um, so, so this idea of,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: of people becoming entrepreneurs, it doesn't mean like everyone has
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: to quit their job and like, you know, build a business.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: but within your job, everyone has an opportunity to get promoted.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: Everyone has an opportunity to, to remove the tedious job.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: There was a Stanford study asking people what percentage of
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: your job is automatable just recently. And everyone, like people
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: said about half, like 50% of what I do is
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: like routine and tedious and I don't want to do it.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: And rather, and I have ideas on how to make
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: the business better, how to make my job better. And, um,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: and I think we can use AI to do it.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: And there's, there's hunger in the workforce to use AI
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: for humans, for people to reclaim their seat as the
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: creative driver. Because the thing that happened with the emergence
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: of computers is that in many ways people became a
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: little more drone-like and NPC-like. They're doing the same thing
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: every day. But I think the real promise of AI
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: is And technology has always been automation so that we
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: have more time either for leisure or for creativity or
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: for ways in which we can advance our lives, change
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: our lives or careers. And, yeah, this is what gets
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: me excited. And I think it's– I don't think it's
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: predominantly a rose-colored glasses thing because I'm seeing it every day.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: And that's what gets me fired up.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: It's also you have a biased sample group, right? Because
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: you have a bunch of people that are using your
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: platform and they are achieving positive results.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: But they're from every walk of life.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: Yes. Look, we have a bunch of things that are
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: happening simultaneously. And I think one of the big fears
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: about automation and AI in general is the abruptness of
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: the change. Because it's going to happen, boom, jobs are
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: going to be gone. And then, well, these tedious jobs,
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: do we really want people to be reduced jobs? to
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: these tedious existences of just filing paperwork and putting things
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: on shelves.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: And they will tell you they don't want to be
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: doing it.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: They don't want to be doing that. But then there's
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: the thing of how do we educate people, especially people
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: that are already set in their ways and they're mature adults.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: How do you get and inspire these people to like, okay, look,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: your job is gone and now you have this opportunity
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: to do something different. Go forth.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: Um, I think, uh, you know, re-skilling is, is something that, that,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: you know, have been done in the past with, you know,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: some amount of success. Obviously if you're, if you've never
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: been exposed to technology, you know, did you remember that?
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: I think it was very cruel thing to say to
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: the miners to go learn the code. Yeah.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: Learn the code.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's, that's really cruel, but, but if you're,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: but if you're someone whose job is a sort of
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: a desk job, you already are in the computer, you're,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of opportunity for you to reskill and
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: start using AI to automate a big part of your job.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: And yes, there's going to be job loss, but I
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: think a lot of those people will be able to reskill.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: And what we're doing with the government of Saudi Arabia,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: I would love to do in the U.S.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: So how is the government of Saudi Arabia using it?
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: So we're just starting right now.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: What's their goal?
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: Their goal is twofold, or three. One is an entire
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: generation of people growing up with these creative tools. Instead
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: of just textbook learning, instead learning by doing, making things.
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: So an entire generation understanding how to make things with AI,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: how to code and all of that stuff. Second is
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: upgrading government operations. So you could think of it sort
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: of like Doge, but more technological. Can we automate big
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: parts of what we do in HR, finance, and things
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: like that. I think it's possible to build these specific
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: AI agents that do part of finance job or accounting job. Again,
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: all these routine things that people are doing, you can
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: go and automate that and make government as a whole
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: more efficient. And third is entrepreneurship. If you gave that
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: power to more people to be able to kind of
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: build businesses, then not only they're growing up with it,
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: but also there's a culture of entrepreneurship, and there is
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: existing already in Saudi Arabia. I mean, the sad thing
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: about the Middle East, there's so much potential, but there's
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: so much wars and so much disaster. Well, there's so
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: much money. There's also so much money, which is good,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: and I think it's good for the United States. I
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: think what President Trump did with the deals in the
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: Gulf region is great. It's going to be great for
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: the United States. It's going to be great for the
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: Gulf region. Um, and, but, uh, but I think we
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: need more of that. You know, we talked about a government,
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: we need more of that enlightened, uh, view of education of, uh,
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: you know, change in our, in our government today. You know,
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: this idea that we're going to bring back the old
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: manufacturing jobs. I mean, I understand like Americans got really
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: screwed with what happened. Like, you know, people got, these
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: jobs got sent away, by globalism, whatever you want to
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: call it. And a few number of people got massively rich.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: A lot of people got disenfranchised and we had the
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: opiate epidemic and it had just massive damage. It made
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: massive damage on the culture. But is the way to
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: bring back those, those, Or is there a new way
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: of the future? There's probably a new manufacturing wave that's
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: going to happen with robotics. The humanoid robots are starting
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: to work. And these, I think, will need a new
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: way of manufacturing it. And so the U.S. can be
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: at the forefront of that, can own that, bring new
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: jobs into existence. And all of these things need software.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: Like our world is going to be primarily run by
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: AI and robots and all of that. And more and
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: more people need to be able to make software, even
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: if it is prompting and not really, you know, but
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: a lot more people just need to be able to
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: make it. There's going to be a need for more
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: products and services and all of that stuff. And I
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: think there's enough jobs to go around if we have
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: this mindset that of let's actually think about the future
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: of the economy as opposed to let's bring back certain
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: manufacturing jobs, which I don't think Americans would want to
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: do anyways.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: Right. They don't want to do the jobs. My problem
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: is there's some people that are doing those jobs right now,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: and it's their entire identity. They have a good job.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: They work for a good company. They make a good living.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: And that might go away. And they're just not psychologically
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: equipped to completely change their life.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: What do you think is the solution there? Which I agree,
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: it's a real problem.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: Well, desperation, unfortunately, is going to motivate people to make changes.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: And it's going to also motivate some people to choose drugs.
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: That's my fear. My fear is that you're going to
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: get a lot more people. There's going to be a
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: lot of people that They figure it out and they survive. Just,
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is natural selection, unfortunately, like in applied
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: to a digital world. There's going to be people that
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: just aren't psychologically equipped to recalibrate their life. And that's
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: my real fear. My real fear is that there's a
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: bunch of really good people out there that are, you know,
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: valuable parts of a certain business right now. That their
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: identity is attached to being employee of the month. They're
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: good people. They show up every day. Everybody loves them
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: and trusts them. They do good work and everybody rewards
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: them for that. And that's part of who they are
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: as a person. They're a hardworking person.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: And they feel that way. And there's like a lot
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: of real good people out there that are, you know,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: blue collar, hardworking people. And that's, they take pride in that.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: And that job's going to go away.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I actually think that more white-collar jobs are going away.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: I think so, too. Yeah.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: So then blue-collar, which is what was the... Like, go
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: back 10 years ago, and we thought, okay, self-driving cars,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: robots and manufacturing, and that turned out to be a
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: lot harder than actually... like more desk jobs because we
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: have a lot more data. For one, we have a
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: lot more data on people sitting in front of a
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: computer and doing Excel and writing things on the internet.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: And so we're able to train these, what we call
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: large language models. And those are really good at like
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: using a computer, like a human uses a computer. And
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: so I think the jobs to be worried about, especially
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: in the next, months to a year, a little more
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: is the routine computer jobs where it's formulaic. You, you know,
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: you go, you have a task like quality assurance jobs, right?
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: Software quality assurance. It's like you get, you get, um,
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: you have to constantly test the same feature of like,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: you know, some large software company, Microsoft or whatever. You're
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: sitting there, um, and you're, uh, you're performing the same
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: thing again and again and again every day. And if
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: there's a bug, you kind of report it back to
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: the software engineers. And that is, I think, really in
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: the bullseye of what AI is going to be able
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: to do over the next months or a year.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: And do it much more efficiently.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: Much more efficiently, much faster.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those people have to be really worried. Drivers, you know,
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: professional drivers, like people who drive cars. Trucks, things along
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: those lines, that's going away.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: That's definitely going away.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's an enormous part of our society. It's
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: millions of jobs.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I was watching a video on this coal
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: mining factory in China that's completely automated. And it was
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: wild to watch. Every step of the way is automated,
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: including recharging the trucks. Like the trucks know they're all electrical.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: Everything's run on electricity. They recharge themselves. You know, they're
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: pulling the coal out of the ground. They're stacking it, inventory, everything. Storage,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: it's all automated, and it runs 24-7. I'm like, this
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: is wild to watch. It's crazy.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember watching the video of BYD making an
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: electric vehicle. It is really satisfying to watch. It's all, like,
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: the entire assembly line is automated. The way they, like,
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: you know, put the paint and the way they, like,
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: through the entire thing.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: By the way, China's electric vehicles are so good. They're
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: so advanced. There's this guy that I follow on Instagram. God,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: I can't remember his name. I really wish I could
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: right now. But he reviews a lot of electric vehicles.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: I've never even heard of these companies. And they're incredible.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: They're so advanced. And their suspension systems are so superior.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: To the suspension systems of even like German luxury cars.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: Like they did a demonstration where they drove one of
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: these Chinese electric vehicles over an obstacle course. And then
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: they had like a BMW and a Mercedes go over
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: and the BMW is on. And the Chinese one is
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: fucking flat planing the entire way. Every bump in the
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: road is being completely absorbed by the suspension. Right.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: There's all AI. It's so much better than what we have.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: Right. Like so much. What is this? That's him. Yep.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: That's him. Forrest Jones. Shout out to Forrest. He's great.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: He does, like, these really fast-paced videos. And he does
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of cars that are available here in America
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: as well. But he does a shit ton of them
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: that aren't. Which one is this one here? Yeah, listen
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: to him because he's pretty good at this shit.
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 3: 710 horsepower, I get cameras here, LIDAR there for self-driving,
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: and this has two NIO-made chips. And for reference, one
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 3: of those chips is as powerful as four NVIDIA chips.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: And this has two.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 3: NIO also has battery swap stations, so if you're in
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 3: a rush, you can hit one up, it'll lift your car,
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: swap out your battery, put in a fully.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: Charged one in between three and five minutes. But here's
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: where the S-Class should be worried.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 3: Not only does it have rear steer and steer-by wires,
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 3: so it's extremely easy to maneuver, it may have one
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 3: of the most advanced hydraulic systems I've ever seen. It
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 3: can pretty much counteract any bump. And after you go
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 3: over something four times, it'll memorize it so that the
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 3: fifth time, it's like that bump never existed. Inside, you
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 3: get pillows near headrests, heated, ventilated, and massaging leather seats,
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: a passenger screen built into my dash, a main screen
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 3: that works super fast. I get a driving display, a
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: head-up display, and my steering works super fast.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: Pretty dope.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's interesting, what he said is that the car
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: is learning the terrain. If it went over it once,
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: it'll learn it and.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: I think this is the next sort of big thing
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: with AI, whether it's robotics, cars, or even chat GPT now,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: it has memory. It like learns about you and starts
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: to like, sort of similar to how social media feeds,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: but I think in a lot of ways more negative,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: learn about you. I think these systems will start to
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: have like, you know, more online learning instead of just
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: training them in these large data centers and these large data, uh,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: and then giving you this thing that doesn't know anything
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: about it. It's totally stateless. Uh, as you use these devices,
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: they will like learn your pattern, your behavior and, and
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: all of that.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Why is China so much better at making these
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: cars than us? Because they're really advanced. Yeah.
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: Um, I think, you know, a lot of people think
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: that I'm not an expert in China, but a lot
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: of people think that, um, the thing that makes, uh,
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: China better at manufacturing is the sort of quote unquote,
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: like more like, uh, you know, uh, treating workers, um,
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: like slaves, uh, that's, you know, slave work or whatever. Um,
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: which I'm sure some of that, uh, happens, um, But
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: Tim Cook recently said, maybe not so recent, but he
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: thinks part of the reason why they manufacture in China
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: is there's expertise there that developed over time.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why they want to use the Chinese manufacturing
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: for the iPhone 17.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think one of the things that are
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: good about more technocratic systems... Singapore, obviously China is the
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: biggest one, is that the sort of leadership, it comes
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: at a cost of freedom and other things, but the
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: leadership can have a 50-year view of where things are
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: headed and they can say, while, yes, we're now making
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: the plastic crap, we don't want to keep making plastic crap.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: We're going to build the capabilities and the automation and
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: manufacturing expertise to be able to leapfrog the West and making...
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: these certain things, whereas it's, you know, it's been historically hard, again,
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: for good reasons. I think there's more freedom preserving when
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: you don't have that much power in government. I mean,
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: but I feel like America, we're like the worst of
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: both worlds, where increasingly the government is making more and
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 1: more decisions and choices than any state. But at the
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: same time, we don't have this enlightened, like, you know,
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: 10-year roadmap for where we want to be.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because we never think that way because we deal
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: in terms.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, four-year.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: Four-year terms. That's the problem.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: But also public companies, four-year terms, public companies, quarters.
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: Quarters. And again, this is back to this managerial idea
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: run by managers that, you know, part of the reason why,
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: you know, Zuck has complete control. He can, how much
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: did he spend on VR? Like, I don't know, $ 30,
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: $ 40 billion, maybe more per year, maybe. He spent a
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: ton of money, like a GDP, like a small state
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: GDP worth of money on VR. And the public market
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: was totally doubtful of that. And the reason he could
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: do that is because he has, what are they called?
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: Super voting shares. And so he has complete control of
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: the company and he can't be unseated by activist investors.
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: sort of what's been done to.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: Wasn't there, like, a recent trial where they were trying
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: to impeach him for saying that? They were trying to
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: remove him from that?
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: They can't, unless.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: I know, but there was a trial. I think there's
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: a trial that's going on. It was going on, like,
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: very recently.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think you're thinking about the antitrust.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: No, no, there's something about him saying that he can't
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: be fired.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: But it's true.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: It is true.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: It's legal.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: I know, it is nonsense. The trial, I believe the
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: trial is nonsense, but... like a friend of mine was
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: actually representing him in this.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Maybe in Europe or something.
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think it's in America. Um, Google, uh,
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg, Josh Dubin trial. See if you could find
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: anything on that.
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Mark can think on the order of, um, decades.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: Like when I was there at Facebook, he was talking about, uh,
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: the idea that like, there's going to be a fundamental shift.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: He's like, if you look, if you look back, 100 years,
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: computers every 20 years or whatever change the user interface modality.
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: You go from terminals and mainframes to desktop computers to
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: mobile computing. And it was like, OK, what's next? And
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: the first guess was VR. And now I think their
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: best guess is AR plus AI. The AR glasses, their
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: new meta Ray-Ban glasses plus AI. And they can make
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: massive investment. They just made crazy investment. This company, Scale AI,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: Scale AI is a data provider for OpenAI and Google.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: And what they do is OpenAI will say, I want
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: the best law and legal data to train the best
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: legal machine learning model. And they'll go to places where
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: the labor costs are low. but maybe still well-educated. There
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: are places in Africa and Asia that are like that.
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: And they'll sit them down and say, okay, you're going
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: to get these tasks, these legal programming, whatever tasks, and
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: you're going to do them, and you're going to write
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: your thoughts as you're doing them. I'm simplifying it, but
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: basically they collect all this data. Basically, it's labeled labor.
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: They take it, they put it in the models, and
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: they train the models, and OpenAI spends billions of dollars
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: on that, Anthropic, all these companies. And so this company
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: was the major data provider and Meta just acquired them.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: There's this new trend of acquisitions, I assume because they
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: want to get around regulations, but they bought 49% of
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: the company and then they hired all the leadership. So
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: the scale AI, like Meta hired the leadership there and
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: bought out the investors. They put $ 15 billion into the company. Uh,
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: the weird thing about it is Google and OpenAI were like,
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: we're not going to use this shit anymore. Um, so
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: the company value went down because people, you know, these
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: companies don't want to use it and now they're going to,
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 1: to other companies. And so, in effect, Zuck bought a
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: talent for $ 15 billion. Wow. Can you imagine that talent
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: for $ 15 billion? Um, Google recently bought a company for
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: one known researcher who's one of the inventors of the
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: large language model technology, Noam Chazir, for $ 3 billion, bought
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: his company, and I think they're not really.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: They do these weird deals where they buy out the
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: investors and they let the company run as a shell
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: of itself, and then they acquire the talent.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: Microsoft did the same thing.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: That's... So it's just these unique individuals that are very
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: valuable there.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: Very, very valuable, worth billions of dollars.
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: Sam Altman says Metatron failed to poach OpenAI's talent with
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: $ 100 million offers.
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: So this $ 100 million is sign-on bonus. This is not
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: even salary. Or equity. It's just bonus.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: $ 100 million bonus.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: Just come here. Failed.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: Failed. And failed.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what failed. I mean,
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he's going to say that. He worded it
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: in a weird way. He said, our best talent hasn't
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: taken it. So you could have been right. Of course
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: he's going to say that.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: Well, of course. The people that did take it, well,
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: they weren't our best talent.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: They weren't our best, yeah.
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: We don't even like those guys anymore.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: And by the way, OpenAI does it to companies like ours.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: It's just a question of scale. Zuck can give them
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: $ 100 million and steal the best talent. And companies like OpenAI,
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: which I love, but They go to small startups and
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: give them $ 10 million to grab their talent. But it's very,
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: very competitive right now. I don't know if these individuals
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: are actually worth these billions of dollars, but the talent
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: war is so crazy because everyone feels like there's a
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: race towards getting to superintelligence. and the first company to
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: get to super intelligence is going to reap massive amounts
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: of rewards.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: How far away do you think we are from achieving that?
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, like I said, like my, my philosophy
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: tends to be different than I think the mainstream in
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: Silicon Valley. I think that, um, AI is going to
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: be extremely good at, uh, you know, doing labor extremely
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: good at, and like, you know, chat GPT and being
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: like a personal assistant, extremely good at like, you know,
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: like Replit being an automated programmer. But the definition of
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: superintelligence is that it is better than every other human
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: collectively at any task. And I am not sure there's
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: evidence that we're headed there. Again, I think that one
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: important aspect of superintelligence or AGI is is that you
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: drop this entity into an environment where it has no
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: idea about that environment. It's never seen it before. And
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: it's able to efficiently learn to achieve goals within that environment.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: Right now, there's a bunch of studies showing like, you know,
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: GPT-4 or any of the latest models. If you give
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: them an exam or a quiz that is slightly, even
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: slightly different than their training data, they tank. They do
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: really badly on it. I think the way that AI
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: will continue to get better is via data. Now, at
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: some point, and maybe this is the point of takeoff,
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: is that they can train themselves. And the way we
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: know how AI could train itself through a method called self-play.
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: So the way self-play works is, you know, take, for example, AlphaGo.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: AlphaGo is, I'm sure you remember Lisa Dole, a game
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: between DeepMind, AlphaGo, and Lisa Dole, and it won in
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: the game of Go. The way AlphaGo is trained is
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: that part of it is a neural network that's trained
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: on existing data, but the way it achieves superhuman performance
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: in that one domain is by playing itself, like millions
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: billions perhaps trillions of times so it it starts by
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: like generating random moves and then it learns what's the
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: best moves and it's like basically a multi-agent system where
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: it learns i did this move uh wrong and you
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: need to kind of re-examine it and and it trains
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: itself really really quickly by doing the self-play it'll play
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: fast fast games with itself. But we know how to
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: make this in game environments because game environments are closed environments.
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: But we don't know how to make it. We don't
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: know how to do self-play, for example, on literature because
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: you need objective truth. In literature, there's no objective truth.
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: taste is, is different.
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: Conjecture, philosophy. There's a lot of things. And again, this is,
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: I go back to why there's still a premise of
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: humans is there are a lot of things that are
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: intangible and we don't know how to like generate objective
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: truth in order to train machines in the self play fashion.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: But like programming is, is, has objective truth. Coding has
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: objective truth. The machine can, like, you can construct an
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: environment that has a computer and has a problem. There's
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: a ton of problems. And even an AI can generate,
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 1: you know, sample problems. And then there's, like, a test
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: to validate whether the program works or not. And then
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 1: you can generate all these programs, test them, and if
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: they succeed, you know, that's a reward, right? that trains
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: your system to, to get better at that. If it
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't succeed, you know, that's also feedback and they run
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: them all the time and it gets better at program.
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: So I'm confident program is going to get a lot better.
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: I'm confident that math is going to get a lot better. Um, but,
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: but from there, it is hard to imagine how all
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: these other more subjective, soft, softer sort of sciences are
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: The AI will get better through self-play. I think the
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: AI will only be able to get better through data
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: from human labor.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: If AI analyzes all the past creativity, all the different
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 2: works of literature, all the different music, all the different
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: things that humans have created completely without AI... Do you
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: think it could understand the mechanisms involved in creativity and
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: make a reasonable facsimile?
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: I think it will be able to imitate very well
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: how humans come up with new ideas in a way
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: that it remixes all the existing ideas from its training data.
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: But by the way, again, this is super powerful. There's
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: not like a dig at AI, the ability to remix
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: all the available data into new, potentially new ideas or
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: newish ideas because they're remixes, they're derivative. It's still very,
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: very powerful. But, you know, the best marketers, the best, like,
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: you know, think of, you know, one of my favorite
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: marketing videos is Think Different from Apple. Mm-hmm. it's awesome. Like,
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: I don't think that like really machines are at a
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: point where they, like, I, I try to talk to
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: Chachi a lot about like, you know, marketing or naming.
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: It's so bad at that. It's like midwit bad at that. Um, and,
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 1: and I, I, you know, for now, but, but, but
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: that's the thing. It's like, I just don't see, and look,
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm not, um, an AI researcher and maybe
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 1: they're working, they have ideas there, but in the current
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: landscape of the technology that we have today, um, It's
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: hard to imagine how these AIs are going to get
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: better at, say, literature or the softer things that we
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: as humans find really compelling.
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 2: What's interesting is the thing that's the most at threat
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: is these sort of middle-of-the-road Hollywood movies that are essentially
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: doing exactly what you said about AI. They're sort of like.
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: You know, they're sort of remixing old themes and tropes
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: and figuring out a way to repackage it.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 1: But I think actually those tools in the hands of humans,
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: they'll be able to create new interesting movies and things
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: Right. In the hands of humans. So with additional human
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: creativity applied.
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: Right. So the... man-machine symbiosis.
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: This was the term that's used by J.C. Licklider, like
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: the grandfather of the internet from ARPA. A lot of
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: those guys kind of imagined a lot of what's going
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: to happen, a lot of the future, and this idea
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 1: of like human plus machine will be able to create
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: amazing things. So what people are making with Vio is
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: not because the machine is really good at painting it. Right. Like,
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: generating it and making it.
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 2: But it can't make it without the prompts.
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 1: Like, the really funny, like, yeah, without the prompt, like,
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: Bigfoot finds Tren. And they inject themselves with Tren. They
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: start working out. I'm telling you, my TikTok feed is
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: really wild right now. Like, it's like this, like, real... weird,
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: distorted human mind to come up with this.
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 2: Lightweight, baby! Have you seen the ones where it's Trump
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: and Elon and Putin and they're all in a band? Right, yeah.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: They're playing Creedence Clearwater Revival.
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I've seen that one.
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: Fortunate Son. It's crazy.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: Another one is the LA riots and how all the
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 1: world leaders are sort of gangsters in the riots. That
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: one is hilarious.
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of stuff is fun. And it's interesting
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: how quickly it can be made, too. You know, something
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: that would have taken a long time through these video editors,
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 2: where they were using computer-generated imagery for a long time.
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: But it's very painstaking and very, you know, very expensive.
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: Now it's really cheap.
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: On the way here, I was like, I want to
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: make an app to sort of impress you with our technology.
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, what would Joe like? And then I
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: came up with this idea of, like.
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: A squat form analyzer. And so in the car over
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: way here, sorry, in the lobby, but I made this
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: app to.
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 2: You made it on the way over here?
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 1: On the way, on my phone. And this is the, like,
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: really exciting thing about what we built with being able to, like,
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: program on your phone is, you know, being able to, like,
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: have that inspiration that, you know, can come any time
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: and just immediately pull out your phone and start building it.
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: So here I'll show you. So basically you just start
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: recording and then do a few squats. Okay. Okay.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: It's going to analyze it just from there?
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But, I mean, the camera angle is not that great. Right.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: Okay. And it's going to be able to tell you
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: whether or not you're doing it well?
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Those are not my best squats. Just so you know,
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 1: Joe Rogan.
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: I'm not judging you.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: I used to squat, you know, 350 pounds. So now
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: it's integrating Google Gemini model to kind of run through
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: the video, analyze it, and it'll come up with a
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: score and then suggestions. And so, again, this is like
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: a random idea. I was like, okay, what would be
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: interesting to do?
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 2: That's a really interesting thing that people could use at
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: the gym, though. Like not just for squats, but maybe
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: for chin-ups and all kinds of stuff. Like, oh, maybe,
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 2: you know. I'm looking at your form, and this is
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 2: what you need to do. Get a little lower, you know,
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: make your elbows parallel to your body, whatever.
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 1: I built so many personal apps. Like, I build apps
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: for analyzing my health. I talked about some of my
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: health problems that are now a lot better. Look, bad form.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, bad form. Just, like, straight away, critical.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: So mean. You get a nice position, unable to probably–
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: Assess from the video angle. So, yeah, it's a little.
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 2: Okay. So, it's saying it's not the best angle.
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 1: But it's saying my depth is bad, which was actually bad. So,
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 1: and I was leaning forward. But it's pretty good. You know,
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: I tried it a few times. It's really good at that.
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: And so, I build a lot of apps for, like,
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 1: just my personal life.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: That would be great for a person who doesn't want
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 2: a trainer. Right. You know, I don't want to deal
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: with some person. Let me just work out on my own.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 2: But am I doing this right? Set your phone up.
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 2: Have it correct you.
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. At the office, some guys are building, we
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: have this partnership with Whoop. I don't know if you've
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: tried it.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 2: Sure, I use Whoop.
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: And they're building an app so we can start competing
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 1: on workouts based on Whoop data.
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 1: Our company is like, very weird for Silicon Valley. Like
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: we have a jujitsu mat and we.
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 2: Have, Oh really?
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 2: We have a, do you guys bring in trainers?
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's awesome.
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 2: Don't get hurt.
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: It's, um, you know, I only recently got into it,
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: but the, hardest thing about it is to be calm
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: because your impulse is to overpower. Yes.
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The Gracies have a great saying, keep it playful. Yeah.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: And that's how you really learn the best. It's very hard.
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: And listen, I'm a giant hypocrite because most of my
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: jujitsu career, I was a meathead. You know, and that's
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 2: one of the reasons why I started really lifting weights
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 2: a lot is, like, I realized, like, strength is very valuable.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: And it is.
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 1: It is, yeah.
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 2: And it is valuable. But technique is the most valuable.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: And the best way to acquire technique is to pretend
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 2: that you don't have any strength.
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: The best way to acquire technique is to pretend to.
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't force things. Just find the best path. And
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: that requires a lot of data. So you have to
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: understand the positions. So you have to really analyze them.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: The best jiu-jitsu guys are really smart. Like Mikey Musumichi,
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 2: Gordon Ryan, Craig Jones. Those are very intelligent people. And
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 2: that's why they're so good at jiu-jitsu. And then you
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: also have to apply that intelligence to recognize that discipline
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 2: is a massive factor. Like Mikey Musumichi trains every day,
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 2: 12 hours a day. 12 hours a day?
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 1: 12 hours a day. Oh, yeah. Is that a humanly
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: possible tool?
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 2: It's possible. Yeah, because he's not training full blast. It's
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 2: not like– like you can't squat 12 hours a day
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: 350 pounds. Of course. Your body will break down. But
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 2: you can go over positions over and over and over
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 2: and over again until they're in muscle memory. But you're
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 2: not doing them at full strength, right? So like if
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: you're rolling, right? So say if you're doing drills, you
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: would set up like a guard pass. When you're doing
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 2: a guard pass, you would tell the person lightly resist–
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to put light pressure on you. And
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: you go over that position, you know, knee shield, pass,
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 2: you know, hip into it, here's the counter, on the counter, Darce.
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 2: You know, go for the dars, the person defends the dars, roll,
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 2: take the back. And just do that over and over
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 2: and over again.
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 1: Until it's muscle memory.
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. And it's like completely ingrained in your body.
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: Sort of chess players, it's like, let's focus on the
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: end game.
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 1: Just keep repeating the end game, end game.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: I read the Josh Weitzkin book. What was it called?
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: I forgot. You know his book about like, I think
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 1: chess and jiu-jitsu.
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 2: Was it? Yeah, Josh was just in here a few
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 2: months ago. He's great.
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 2: Just, but it's so interesting to see a super intelligent
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 2: person apply that intelligence to jujitsu.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: You know, one of the interesting things when I started
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: getting into, I've, I've always been into, you know, different
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 1: kinds of sports, um, and then pure periods of, of
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: extreme programming and, and, and, and obesity. But then, but
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 1: then I tried to get back into it. Um, I
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 1: was a swimmer, uh, early on, but, um, One thing
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: that I found, especially in the lifting community, is how
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: intelligent everyone are. They're actually almost like, you know, they're
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 1: so focused. They're autistically focused on, like, form and program. And,
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: you know, they spend so much time designing these spreadsheets
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: for your program.
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, people have this, like, really– we have this–
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 2: view of things physical. That physical things are not intelligent things.
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 2: But you need intelligence in order to manage emotions. Emotions
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: are a critical aspect of anything physical. Any really good athlete,
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 2: you need a few factors. You need discipline, hard work, genetics.
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 2: You need intelligence. It might not be the same intelligence.
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 2: People also, they confuse intelligence with your ability to express yourself.
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 2: Your vocabulary, your history of reading. It's like a bias almost. Yes,
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 2: it's a huge bias.
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: That's like the sort of modern desk job, the laptop
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: class bias.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 2: Well, they assume that anything that you're doing physically, you're
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 2: now no longer using your mind. But it's not true.
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 2: In order to be disciplined, you have to understand how
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 2: to manage your mind. Managing your mind is an intelligence.
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: And the ability to override those emotions, to conquer that
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 2: inner bitch that comes to you every time I lift
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 2: that fucking lid off of that cold plunge, that takes intelligence.
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 2: You have to understand that this temporary discomfort is worth
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 2: it in the long run because I'm going to have
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 2: an incredible result after this is over. I'm going to
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 2: feel so much better.
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right. Yeah, I haven't thought about it. intelligence
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 1: in order to manage your emotions, but that's totally true
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: because you're constantly doing the self-talk. You're trying to like
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 1: trick yourself.
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that are very intelligent that
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 2: don't have control over their emotions, but they're intelligent in
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 2: some ways. It's just, they've missed this one aspect of intelligence,
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 2: which is the management of the functions of the mind itself.
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 2: And they don't think that that's critical, but it is critical.
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: It's critical to every aspect of your life and it'll
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 2: actually improve all those other intellectual pursuits.
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 1: To tie it back to the AI discussion, I think
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of the programmer researcher type is like they
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: know that one form of intelligence and they over-rotate on that.
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 1: And that's why I was like, oh, we're so close
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: to perfecting intelligence.
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 1: Because that's what you know. But there's a lot of
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 1: other forms of intelligence.
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of forms of intelligence. And unfortunately, we're very...
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 2: We're very narrow in our perceptions of these things and
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 2: very biased. And we think that our intelligence is the
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: only intelligence.
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 2: And that this one thing that we concentrate on, this
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 2: is the only thing that's important.
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 1: Right. Have you read or done any CBT, cognitive behavior therapy? No. Basically,
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 1: CBT is like a way to get over depression and
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 1: anxiety based on self-talk and cues. Um, I, I had
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 1: to use it again. I had like sleep issues. I
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 1: had to use CBTI, um, kind of behavior therapy for insomnia. Um,
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 1: and the, the idea behind it is to, um, uh,
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 1: build up what's called a sleep pressure. Uh, so you don't,
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 1: first of all, you, you, insomnia is performance anxiety. Once
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 1: you stop, once you have, insomnia, you start having anxiety. Like,
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 1: but by the time bedtime comes, you're like, Oh my God,
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to, I'm just going to, you know,
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 1: turn over in bed and I'm just going to be
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 1: in bed. And then you start associating your bedroom with
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 1: the suffering of insomnia, uh, because you're like sitting there
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 1: and like, you know, uh, you're all night and really suffering.
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 1: It's really horrid, uh, horrific. And, um, first of all,
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 1: you treat your bedroom as a sanctuary. You only there
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 1: when you want to sleep. So that's like one thing
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 1: you program yourself to do. And the other thing is
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 1: you don't nap the entire day. You don't nap at all,
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 1: no matter what happens. Like even if you're really sleepy,
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 1: like get up and take a walk or whatever. And
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 1: then you build up what's called sleep pressure. Like you're
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 1: now you have like a lot of sleepiness. So you
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 1: go to bed, you try to fall asleep. If you
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 1: don't fall asleep within 15, 20 minutes, you get up,
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 1: you go out, you do something else. And then when
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 1: you feel really tired again, you go back to bed. Oh, God.
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 1: And then finally, once you fall asleep, if you wake
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night, which is another
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 1: sort of form of insomnia, instead of staying in bed,
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 1: you get up, you go somewhere else, you go read
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 1: or do whatever. And like slowly you program yourself to
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 1: see your bed and, oh, like the bed is where
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: I sleep. It's only where I sleep. I don't do
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 1: anything else there. Um, and you can, you can get
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 1: over insomnia that way instead of using pills and all
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 1: the other stuff.
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, the pills are the worst. God, people that need
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 2: those fucking things to sleep. I feel for them. I
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: could go, I can sleep. Like that.
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 2: I can sleep on the ground.
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 1: That's a blessing. That's a blessing. Oh, it's a huge blessing.
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 2: My wife hates it. It drives her nuts because sometimes
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 2: she has insomnia. I could sleep on rocks. I could
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 2: just go lay down on a dirt road and fall asleep. Wow.
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 2: But I'm always going hard.
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 1: When you're always going hard, you're- That's the other thing.
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't take naps.
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 2: And I work out basically every day. And so I'm
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 2: always tired. I'm always ready to go to sleep.
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 1: So do you fight it or do you just, it's
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 1: not in you to like take a nap?
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 2: I don't need a nap.
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I never need naps.
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 1: How many hours do you sleep?
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 2: I try to get eight.
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 1: Do you get eight?
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 2: No, last night I didn't get eight, but I got seven,
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 2: six and a half. Probably I got six and a
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 2: half last night.
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 2: But that was because I got home and I started
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 2: watching TV because I was a little freaked out about
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 2: the war. And so when I'm freaked out about the war,
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 2: I like to fill my mind with nonsense.
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 1: What kind of nonsense?
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I just watch things that have nothing to do
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 2: with the war. Like I play pool. I'm pretty competitive.
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty good. And so I like watching professional pool matches.
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of them on YouTube. So I
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 2: just watch pool. And I just watch, you know, patterns,
• 2:27:14
  Speaker 2: how guys get out, stroke, how they use their stroke,
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 2: like how different guys have different approaches to the game.
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. The type A people, it's like for you,
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 1: although pool is an escape, it suddenly becomes an obsession.
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 1: And you're like, I need to be the best at it.
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 2: I'm very obsessed.
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 1: So, you know, I told you I quit video games.
• 2:27:32
  Speaker 1: But then... Last year I was very stressed, like the
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 1: company was doing really poorly before we sort of invented
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 1: this agent technology. And then also the, you know, Gaza genocide.
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 1: I was, like, watching these videos every night. It was just, like, really,
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 1: really affecting me.
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 2: I can't watch that stuff at night. At night is
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 2: when I get my anxiety.
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't generally have anxiety. Not like a
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: lot of people do. I mean, when I say anxiety,
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 2: I really feel for people that genuinely suffer from actual anxiety.
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 2: My anxiety is all sort of self-imposed. And when I
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 2: get online at night and I think about the world,
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 2: my family's asleep, which is generally when I write. As
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 2: long as I'm writing, I'm okay.
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: Comedy?
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I write like sort of an essay
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 2: form that I extract the comedy from it. But when
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 2: I get online and I just pay attention to the world,
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 2: that's when I really freak out. Because it's all out
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 2: of your control. And it's just murderous psychopaths that are
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 2: running the world. At any moment, you could be in
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 2: a place where they decide to attack. And then you're
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 2: a pawn in this fucking insane game that these people
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 2: are playing in the world.
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 1: That's why I felt really frustrated with my family being there.
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 1: I was like, hey. They have no say in it.
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 1: The war started, rockets were flying. But anyways, I started
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 1: playing a video game. It's called Hades 2. It's like
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 1: an RPG video game. And I was like, I'm trying
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 1: to disconnect. And then I started speedrunning that game. Do
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 1: you know what speedrunning is?
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 1: It's like you're trying to finish the game as fast
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 1: as possible, as fast as humanly possible. Um, and I
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 1: got down to like six minutes and I was number
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 1: 50 in the world.
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 2: Whoa. But legitimately. Oh yeah. My score is online. To
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 2: play for it. That was crazy. Why is he doing that?
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 2: That was crazy.
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 1: It's, it's, it's myth building, you know?
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Weird. Yeah.
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: Um, but yeah, it is, it is this thing about,
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 1: about Taipei people. Like you're, uh, you're just, you're, you know,
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 1: even in the, in the, your escapism becomes competitive and stressful.
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 2: Well sort of but it's also I feel like it's
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 2: a discipline I feel like pool is a discipline just
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 2: like archery I'm also obsessed with archery archery is a
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 2: discipline and I feel like the more divergent disciplines that
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 2: you have in your life the more you understand what
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 2: it is about these things that makes you excel and
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 2: get better at them and the more thing when I
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 2: get better at those things I get better at life
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 2: It's I apply it to everything. Yeah.
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 1: This is another thing that AI now struggles with, which
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 1: is called transform learning. You're learning something from domain, like
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 1: learning something from math on how to like do reasoning
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 1: on math and being able to do reasoning on politics.
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 1: We just don't have evidence of that yet. And I
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 1: know I feel the same way. Everything, like even powerlifting,
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 1: when I got really into it, which is like the
• 2:30:43
  Speaker 1: most unhealthy sport you can Yeah. You can do.
• 2:30:46
  Speaker 2: You break your joints down.
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 1: You break your joints. You look like shit because, you know,
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 1: the more you eat, you can lift more.
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 1: You get fat.
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 2: They're all fat. They're all fat. Unless they're competing in
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 2: a weight class.
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 2: You have to be lean. Yeah.
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 1: And what is that repertoire? Have you ever had him on?
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 1: The Jug of Milk? Go mad. You know go mad?
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 1: Gallon milk a day. Do you know that, Jamie?
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 2: Do you know it?
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 1: Disgusting. Yeah.
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 2: So basically a gallon of milk a day.
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Mark repertoire, he's, um, he wrote this book
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 1: called starting strength and it became like the, the main
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 1: way most, most guys, at least my age, like getting into, uh, powerlifting.
• 2:31:25
  Speaker 1: It was about technique. It was about like his whole
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 1: thing is like, look, you know, everyone comes into lifting.
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: They think it's bodybuilding. Powerlifting is nothing like that. And
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 1: he also looks, looks like shit and he's fat. Uh,
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 1: but his technique is amazing. And so the way he
• 2:31:40
  Speaker 1: gets young guys to like get really good and really strong,
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 1: he puts them on a gallon of milk a day.
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 2: Does that really have a positive effect?
• 2:31:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he has a YouTube channel. He has
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys that are really, really strong, and
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 1: he's been a coach for a lot of people.
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 2: What is it about a gallon of milk a day?
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 2: Is it just the protein intake? What is it?
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 1: Paragraph on it.
• 2:31:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, here it is. Drinking a gallon of milk a day,
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 2: go mad, is undeniably the most effective nutritional strategy for
• 2:32:05
  Speaker 2: adding slabs of mass to young, underweight males. Milk is
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 2: relatively cheap, painless to prepare. And the macronutrient profile is
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 2: very balanced and calories are always easier to drink than eat. Unfortunately,
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 2: those interested in muscular hypertrophy who are not young, underweight,
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 2: and male, populations where GoMad is not recommended, will need
• 2:32:27
  Speaker 2: to put more effort into the battle to avoid excess
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 2: fat accumulation. Body composition can be manipulated progressively, much like
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 2: barbell training, to achieve the best results. For example... The
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 2: starting strength novice linear progression holds exercise selection frequency and
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 2: volume variables constant. Okay. Every 48 to 72 hours, the
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 2: load stressor is incrementally increased to elicit adaptation and strength.
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 2: If the load increases too significant or insignificant, the desired
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 2: adaptation won't take place. Yeah. This is the intelligence. This
• 2:32:58
  Speaker 2: is the intelligence involved in lifting that people who are
• 2:33:03
  Speaker 2: on the outside of it would dismiss.
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I am so honored to be the
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 1: guy that introduces Joe Rogan to starting strength.
• 2:33:13
  Speaker 2: Go mad. Yeah, go mad.
• 2:33:15
  Speaker 1: Robert Duvall is so funny. You should, like, watch some
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 1: of his videos. He has, like, this very thick Texan accent.
• 2:33:20
  Speaker 1: And he's just, like, his audience shits on him all
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 1: the time. They call him fat and ugly and whatever.
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 2: And he abuses his audience, too. Let me see this guy.
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 2: Let me see this guy.
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 1: Put his picture up.
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 2: That's the dude?
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 1: No, that's an old photo. He's not much better.
• 2:33:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So he's just a nerd.
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a huge nerd. But, like, yeah, he used
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 1: to lift a lot, a lot of weight.
• 2:33:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot. That's what he used to look like?
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 2: That one photo with him with the hairy chest? The black. Oh, okay.
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 2: Damn.
• 2:33:55
  Speaker 1: Is that him?
• 2:33:56
  Speaker 2: Is that him?
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. Really?
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 2: It does look like him. Yeah, that's him. He used
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 2: to be jacked.
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. That's good.
• 2:34:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, so he was a bodybuilder at one point in time.
• 2:34:05
  Speaker 1: But then he got on that go mad jet.
• 2:34:07
  Speaker 2: Now he's a power lifter. Simply no other exercise, no machine,
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 2: prevent the level of muscular stimulation and growth than the
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 2: correctly performed full squat. Well, he's dead lifting in that image.
• 2:34:19
  Speaker 1: That's weird. So he also makes you squat on every
• 2:34:24
  Speaker 1: day of lifting. Oh. So squat every time, every time
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 1: you lift. Really? Yeah. Well, his idea is like squat
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 1: is a full body exercise. Like you can just go
• 2:34:34
  Speaker 1: to the gym. And when I used to be busy
• 2:34:37
  Speaker 1: and I just want to maintain, like, be healthy, I'll
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 1: just squat.
• 2:34:40
  Speaker 2: Every— Just get 15, 20 minutes of squatting.
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 1: 15, 20 minutes of squatting and just get out of
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 1: the gym.
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But— Well, I do something with legs every day.
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 1: You have to.
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:34:51
  Speaker 1: But squat, actually, it does feel like there's an upper
• 2:34:53
  Speaker 1: body component to it as well.
• 2:34:55
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also your body recognizes, like, oh, this asshole
• 2:34:57
  Speaker 2: wants to lift, like, really heavy things. We've got to
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 2: get big.
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly.
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the best way to get big. Yeah, because
• 2:35:03
  Speaker 2: your body just realizes, like, okay, we have to adapt.
• 2:35:06
  Speaker 2: This shithead wants to lift giant things every day.
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hilarious. And, you know, the other one, I'm
• 2:35:14
  Speaker 1: sure you know him. I think you introduced me to
• 2:35:16
  Speaker 1: him through your podcast, Louie Simmons.
• 2:35:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 1: Those guys are crazy. You watched the Netflix documentary?
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 2: I didn't watch the Netflix documentary, but we did actually
• 2:35:25
  Speaker 2: interview him. He's like one of the few people that
• 2:35:28
  Speaker 2: I traveled to go meet who went to Westside Barbell.
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 1: I saw that.
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 2: It was great. We have some of his equipment out here.
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 2: He's gone now.
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 1: Reverse hyper?
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Reverse hyper is so good for people that have
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 2: back problems. Everyone that has a back issue, let me
• 2:35:41
  Speaker 2: show you something. And I bring them out to the
• 2:35:43
  Speaker 2: reverse hyper machine. And I'm like, this thing will actively
• 2:35:46
  Speaker 2: strengthen and decompress your spine.
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 1: Right. It's so good.
• 2:35:49
  Speaker 2: It's so good for people that have lower back issues
• 2:35:52
  Speaker 2: where the doctor just wants to cut them. I'm like,
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 2: hold on. Hold on. Don't do that right away.
• 2:35:57
  Speaker 1: I had back pain since my late teens. And, and,
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 1: and the doctors want to, uh, like they, um, they,
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 1: they did a, uh, MRI and they, they found that there's,
• 2:36:10
  Speaker 1: there's a bit of a bulge and they want to
• 2:36:12
  Speaker 1: do an operations on it.
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They want to do a disectomy.
• 2:36:15
  Speaker 1: Someone wanted to put me in antidepressants. Apparently you can
• 2:36:18
  Speaker 1: manage pain with antidepressants. Have you heard of that? Yeah.
• 2:36:21
  Speaker 1: Apparently it's a thing. Um, and, and, um, and through
• 2:36:25
  Speaker 1: listening to your podcast and others, I was like, it
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 1: was just going to get strong. So I got, I
• 2:36:30
  Speaker 1: got strong squats and things like that. And, and, and
• 2:36:33
  Speaker 1: the pain got a lot better. It didn't, didn't go entirely.
• 2:36:36
  Speaker 1: But the thing that like really got me over the hump,
• 2:36:39
  Speaker 1: and this, this one's crazy. Are you familiar with the
• 2:36:44
  Speaker 1: mind body prescription?
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 1: John Sarno?
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 2:36:48
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:36:48
  Speaker 2: I heard about him on Howard Stern. He was talking
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 2: about how a lot of back pain is psychosomatic.
• 2:36:52
  Speaker 1: Psychosomatic. Yeah. I don't, So his idea, and again, this
• 2:36:56
  Speaker 1: is like.
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 2: He doesn't understand jujitsu because a lot of back pain
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 2: is real as fuck. Right, right, right.
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think.
• 2:37:03
  Speaker 2: Settle down.
• 2:37:03
  Speaker 1: I think for me it's always a combination of both.
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 1: Like there's something physically happening. But like his idea is
• 2:37:11
  Speaker 1: that your mind is creating the pain to distract you
• 2:37:17
  Speaker 1: from emotional, psychological pain.
• 2:37:21
  Speaker 2: I think that's the case in some people.
• 2:37:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, then doctors will go do an image, and
• 2:37:28
  Speaker 1: often they'll find something, and he thinks that, like, lumbar
• 2:37:34
  Speaker 1: imperfections are almost in everyone.
• 2:37:37
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think that's true.
• 2:37:39
  Speaker 1: And then the doctors latch onto that, and your mind
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 1: latches onto that, and you start reinforcing, telling yourself— that
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 1: I have this thing and the pain gets worse. There's
• 2:37:56
  Speaker 1: also another thing called the salience network. Have you heard
• 2:37:58
  Speaker 1: of this?
• 2:37:59
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:38:00
  Speaker 1: If you can bring up the Wikipedia page for salience network,
• 2:38:02
  Speaker 1: because I don't want to get it wrong, but the
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 1: salience network is a network in the brain that neuroscientists found.
• 2:38:11
  Speaker 1: My doctor, Tadiyaki, he told me about this. The salience
• 2:38:18
  Speaker 1: network gets reinforced whenever you obsess over your pains or
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 1: your health issues.
• 2:38:29
  Speaker 2: That makes sense.
• 2:38:30
  Speaker 1: So it's responsible for perception. And the more you reinforce,
• 2:38:35
  Speaker 1: it's like a muscle. The more you reinforce it, it's
• 2:38:37
  Speaker 1: sort of like AI, reinforcement learning. The more you reinforce it,
• 2:38:40
  Speaker 1: it becomes more of an issue.
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 2: Including various functions, including social behavior, self-awareness, and integrating sensory, emotional,
• 2:38:47
  Speaker 2: and cognitive information. Boy, I bet social media is really
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 2: bad for that.
• 2:38:51
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:38:51
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 1: And, and so, you know, a lot of the, you know,
• 2:38:56
  Speaker 1: fatigue and things like that, at some point I'm like,
• 2:38:59
  Speaker 1: fuck it. Uh, I did a lot of other things,
• 2:39:02
  Speaker 1: but at some point I'm like, fuck it. I don't,
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 1: I don't care about it. I don't have it. I'm
• 2:39:06
  Speaker 1: just gonna, I'm just gonna be, uh, I'm just gonna
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 1: be good.
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 2: Hmm. Just not concentrate on that.
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 1: Cause I was reading about it all the time I
• 2:39:13
  Speaker 1: was doing, I was like really worried.
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 2: And I had Abigail Schreier and she was talking about
• 2:39:18
  Speaker 2: that in regards to cognitive therapy, that there's a lot
• 2:39:21
  Speaker 2: of people that like obsess on their problems so much
• 2:39:24
  Speaker 2: that their problems actually become bigger. Yes.
• 2:39:26
  Speaker 1: And this is it. This is the neuroscience behind it,
• 2:39:29
  Speaker 1: the salience network.
• 2:39:31
  Speaker 2: Makes sense.
• 2:39:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 2: But there's legit back problems. Of course. Legit back. That's
• 2:39:36
  Speaker 2: why the John Sarno thing, I was like, okay, not
• 2:39:39
  Speaker 2: for me. I understand how some people could develop that issue.
• 2:39:44
  Speaker 1: But his insight was, look, I ran a clinic in
• 2:39:47
  Speaker 1: New York City for a long time, and these chronic
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 1: illnesses come in waves. There's an ulcer's wave in the, like, 90s.
• 2:39:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, because it became a thing that people were talking
• 2:40:00
  Speaker 2: about a lot. Yes. Wow.
• 2:40:02
  Speaker 1: And then there's, like, a neck pain, and then there's
• 2:40:05
  Speaker 1: an RSI. The most recent one was RSI.
• 2:40:08
  Speaker 2: What is RSI?
• 2:40:09
  Speaker 1: Repetitive strain injury. And, again, all these things have rational– um, uh,
• 2:40:16
  Speaker 1: explanations for, for me, I was in the computer all
• 2:40:20
  Speaker 1: the time. Uh, and I was like, oh, my, my
• 2:40:23
  Speaker 1: arm hurts. And, uh, and yeah, maybe, you know, there,
• 2:40:27
  Speaker 1: there was some aspect of it. I was programming a lot. Uh, but,
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 1: but also after I read John Sarno and, and, and
• 2:40:34
  Speaker 1: I realized that some of it might be also psychological that,
• 2:40:37
  Speaker 1: you know, it's stress. It's, uh, I don't know what,
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 1: maybe I have some childhood issues, but, uh, But, but
• 2:40:44
  Speaker 1: like you just realize that a lot of it, and
• 2:40:47
  Speaker 1: maybe the other way is true as well. When you
• 2:40:49
  Speaker 1: just like minimize it, it just becomes less of a,
• 2:40:52
  Speaker 1: of an issue in your mind. But the fact that
• 2:40:55
  Speaker 1: it is like fashion should tell you that there's something psychosomatic.
• 2:41:00
  Speaker 2: Right. The fact that it does come in waves like
• 2:41:02
  Speaker 2: that for sure. And then once it's in the zeitgeist,
• 2:41:06
  Speaker 2: ulcers or whatever it is. Yeah.
• 2:41:08
  Speaker 1: I remember when I, when we were kids, like everyone
• 2:41:10
  Speaker 1: had ulcers and I was like, oh, it's from coffee
• 2:41:13
  Speaker 1: in the morning. Uh, like there's all these, I don't
• 2:41:16
  Speaker 1: know anyone in the house who's now. Right.
• 2:41:19
  Speaker 2: That's true. That's right. That's crazy.
• 2:41:21
  Speaker 1: That's wild.
• 2:41:23
  Speaker 2: It is wild. The mind, like the, the way it
• 2:41:26
  Speaker 2: can benefit you or the way it can hold you prisoner. Yeah.
• 2:41:30
  Speaker 1: And again, this is maybe why I have like a
• 2:41:33
  Speaker 1: little like, um, different view about AI and humans and
• 2:41:38
  Speaker 1: all of that from, from, from Silicon Valley. Like this
• 2:41:41
  Speaker 1: is a weird thing, but, um, Every time I set
• 2:41:46
  Speaker 1: my mind to, like, meet someone, I meet them. Including you.
• 2:41:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow. That's weird.
• 2:41:53
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I want to meet this person. Something happens.
• 2:41:57
  Speaker 1: Some chain of events. But obviously, you also see it
• 2:42:00
  Speaker 1: in some way.
• 2:42:00
  Speaker 2: But it's obviously you're doing something very... You're not just
• 2:42:05
  Speaker 2: thinking it.
• 2:42:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:42:06
  Speaker 2: You're also doing things.
• 2:42:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:42:08
  Speaker 2: Which is my problem with, like, the secret and, like,
• 2:42:10
  Speaker 2: the power of manifesting things.
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 1: I don't go that far, but.
• 2:42:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know. There's something to it.
• 2:42:15
  Speaker 1: There's something.
• 2:42:16
  Speaker 2: There's something there. Yeah, I agree. There's something to it.
• 2:42:19
  Speaker 2: I just– I think the mind and our connection to
• 2:42:24
  Speaker 2: reality is not as simple as we've been told.
• 2:42:30
  Speaker 1: Not at all. I think there's something there. And again,
• 2:42:33
  Speaker 1: when you start looking at psychedelics and stuff like that,
• 2:42:37
  Speaker 1: there's something there.
• 2:42:38
  Speaker 2: And I.
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 1: Remember listening to one of– I love Jerry circa early 2010s. Um,
• 2:42:47
  Speaker 1: it was a, there was a remote viewing, uh, you
• 2:42:50
  Speaker 1: were talking about a remote viewing episode. Um, and I
• 2:42:53
  Speaker 1: was like, wow, that's, that's crazy. Uh, and, um, obviously
• 2:42:57
  Speaker 1: very skeptical of it. The idea that you can meditate
• 2:43:00
  Speaker 1: and like see somewhere else or see, see it from above.
• 2:43:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:43:04
  Speaker 1: I read a book about Da Vinci. It's called Da
• 2:43:08
  Speaker 1: Vinci's brain. I think, um, And Da Vinci is like fascinating.
• 2:43:13
  Speaker 1: Who's this fucking guy? He, he does everything. And, um,
• 2:43:18
  Speaker 1: and he literally is like across all these domains and, uh,
• 2:43:21
  Speaker 1: he doesn't, he barely sleeps. Like he has this polyphasic
• 2:43:24
  Speaker 1: sleep thing, which I tried once as torture. Uh, basically
• 2:43:30
  Speaker 1: every four hours you sleep for 15 minutes. When I was, uh,
• 2:43:34
  Speaker 1: when I was in university, I, um, uh, I was,
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 1: I was very good at computer science, but I hated
• 2:43:40
  Speaker 1: going to school And in Jordan, if you don't go
• 2:43:42
  Speaker 1: to school, they ban you from the exam. I was
• 2:43:46
  Speaker 1: getting A's, but I just didn't want to sit in class.
• 2:43:51
  Speaker 1: And actually, this is when I started thinking about programming
• 2:43:53
  Speaker 1: on my phone. I was like, maybe I can code
• 2:43:55
  Speaker 1: my phone in class. But I felt there was injustice. ADHD,
• 2:44:01
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. You just can't sit
• 2:44:03
  Speaker 1: in class. Just give me a break. And so I
• 2:44:06
  Speaker 1: felt justified to rebel or fix the situation somehow. so
• 2:44:11
  Speaker 1: I decided to like hack into the university and change
• 2:44:14
  Speaker 1: my grades so I can graduate. Cause everyone was graduating.
• 2:44:17
  Speaker 1: It was like five years in, it took me six
• 2:44:20
  Speaker 1: years to get through, through a four year program just
• 2:44:23
  Speaker 1: because I can't sit in class. Um, and you have
• 2:44:26
  Speaker 1: to have some, some, some dyslexia and things like that. But, um, so, uh, I, um, I,
• 2:44:33
  Speaker 1: I decided to do that and I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm, Like,
• 2:44:36
  Speaker 1: hacking takes a lot of time because, like, you're coding,
• 2:44:39
  Speaker 1: you're scripting, you're running scripts against servers, and you're waiting.
• 2:44:43
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm just going to, you know, to
• 2:44:46
  Speaker 1: optimize my time, I'm just going to do this DaVinci
• 2:44:48
  Speaker 1: thing where, like, for hours. By the way, there's a
• 2:44:51
  Speaker 1: Seinfeld episode where, what's his name, the crazy guy in Seinfeld?
• 2:44:56
  Speaker 2: Kramer?
• 2:44:57
  Speaker 1: Kramer. Kramer does polyphysics. Maybe I learned it from there.
• 2:45:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 2:45:02
  Speaker 2: How do you wake up?
• 2:45:04
  Speaker 1: You set an alarm.
• 2:45:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, God. Yeah.
• 2:45:06
  Speaker 1: It's torture.
• 2:45:07
  Speaker 2: That sounds so crazy.
• 2:45:09
  Speaker 1: Apparently Da Vinci used to do that. But anyways, I
• 2:45:11
  Speaker 1: was able to hack into the university by like working
• 2:45:15
  Speaker 1: for weeks using polyphasic sleep and was able to change
• 2:45:19
  Speaker 1: my grades. And initially, I didn't want to do it
• 2:45:27
  Speaker 1: on myself, but I had a neighbor who went together
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 1: to school and I was like– you know, let's change
• 2:45:33
  Speaker 1: this grade and see if it actually succeeds and actually
• 2:45:35
  Speaker 1: succeeded in his case. And it was my lab rat.
• 2:45:38
  Speaker 1: But in my case, I got caught. And the reason
• 2:45:42
  Speaker 1: I got caught is there is, you know, in the database,
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 1: there's your grade out of 100, you know, 0 to 100.
• 2:45:55
  Speaker 1: When you get banned because of attendance, your grade is
• 2:45:58
  Speaker 1: de facto 35. So I thought I would just change that,
• 2:46:02
  Speaker 1: and that's the thing that will get me to pass. Well,
• 2:46:05
  Speaker 1: it turns out there's another field in the database about
• 2:46:08
  Speaker 1: whether you're banned or not. This is bad coding. This
• 2:46:12
  Speaker 1: is bad programming, because this database is not normalized. There's
• 2:46:16
  Speaker 1: a state in two different fields. So I'll put the
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 1: blame on them for not designing the right database. MARK MANDELMANN,
• 2:46:24
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
• 2:46:25
  Speaker 2: You blame them for your hacking being unsuccessful. So what
• 2:46:28
  Speaker 2: was the punishment?
• 2:46:29
  Speaker 1: So the entire university system went down because there's this anomaly.
• 2:46:33
  Speaker 1: I was, you know, I passed, but at the same
• 2:46:37
  Speaker 1: time I was banned. And so I got a call
• 2:46:42
  Speaker 1: from the head of the registration system. And it was
• 2:46:47
  Speaker 1: like 7 p.m., whatever. It was a landline. And I
• 2:46:49
  Speaker 1: pick up the call. He's like, hey, listen, we have
• 2:46:51
  Speaker 1: this issue we're dealing with. Like the entire thing is down.
• 2:46:54
  Speaker 1: and it just shows your record. There's a problem with it.
• 2:46:57
  Speaker 1: Do you know anything about it? And at the time
• 2:47:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, there's like a fork in the road.
• 2:47:02
  Speaker 1: You know, I either like come clean or just like,
• 2:47:04
  Speaker 1: this is a lie that will like live for me forever.
• 2:47:07
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I was just going to say, it
• 2:47:09
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I did it. And I was like,
• 2:47:12
  Speaker 1: what do you mean? I was like, okay, I'll, come
• 2:47:14
  Speaker 1: explain it to you. So the next day I go there,
• 2:47:17
  Speaker 1: and it's all the university deans. And it's like one
• 2:47:20
  Speaker 1: of the best computer science universities in the region, the
• 2:47:22
  Speaker 1: princess of my university for technology. And they're all nerds.
• 2:47:26
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. So the discussion became technical on how I
• 2:47:31
  Speaker 1: hacked into the university. And I went to whiteboard and
• 2:47:34
  Speaker 1: explaining what I did. And it just felt like a
• 2:47:38
  Speaker 1: brainstorming session. I'm like, all right, I'll see you guys later.
• 2:47:40
  Speaker 1: It's like, wait, we need to figure out what to
• 2:47:43
  Speaker 1: do with you. Like, this is serious. And I'm like, oh, crap.
• 2:47:50
  Speaker 1: But the president of, they kind of put the decision
• 2:47:53
  Speaker 1: to the president. And he was, I forgot his name,
• 2:47:56
  Speaker 1: but he was such an enlightened guy. Um, and, and
• 2:47:59
  Speaker 1: I went and told him like, I just didn't mean
• 2:48:01
  Speaker 1: any malice. I just felt like justified. I need to graduate.
• 2:48:05
  Speaker 1: I've been here for a long time. I actually do
• 2:48:07
  Speaker 1: good work. And, um, and he's like, look, you're, you're talented. Um,
• 2:48:12
  Speaker 1: but with great power comes great responsibility. He gave me
• 2:48:15
  Speaker 1: the Spider-Man line. Um, and he said, uh, for us
• 2:48:19
  Speaker 1: to forgive you, you're going to have to go and
• 2:48:21
  Speaker 1: harden the, uh, systems in the university against, against hacking.
• 2:48:26
  Speaker 1: So I spent the summer trying to work with the
• 2:48:28
  Speaker 1: engineers at the university to do that. But they hated
• 2:48:33
  Speaker 1: me because, you know, I'm the guy that hacked into
• 2:48:35
  Speaker 1: the system. So they would, like, blackball me. Like, sometimes
• 2:48:39
  Speaker 1: I'll show up to work and they wouldn't open the
• 2:48:41
  Speaker 1: door and I can see them. Like, I can see
• 2:48:43
  Speaker 1: you there.
• 2:48:43
  Speaker 2: I'm knocking.
• 2:48:44
  Speaker 1: And they wouldn't let me in and let me work
• 2:48:46
  Speaker 1: with them. We did some stuff to fix it.
• 2:48:49
  Speaker 2: And then I gained.
• 2:48:54
  Speaker 1: you know, fame, maybe notoriety in the university and actually
• 2:48:58
  Speaker 1: got me my first job while I was in school.
• 2:49:03
  Speaker 1: And it's a different story, but that job was at
• 2:49:06
  Speaker 1: a startup that ended up making videos that were a
• 2:49:10
  Speaker 1: big part of the Arab Spring. Oh, wow. Yeah. And
• 2:49:15
  Speaker 1: I was part of some of these videos as well.
• 2:49:17
  Speaker 1: But anyways, so one of the computer deans was like, hey, listen,
• 2:49:22
  Speaker 1: I really helped you out. computer science dean, I really
• 2:49:25
  Speaker 1: helped you out when you had this problem, and I
• 2:49:28
  Speaker 1: need you to work with me in order to do
• 2:49:30
  Speaker 1: another research to hack into the university again. I was like,
• 2:49:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. No, it's like, no,
• 2:49:37
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get in trouble. You're going to.
• 2:49:39
  Speaker 2: Sanctioned.
• 2:49:40
  Speaker 1: It's going to be sanctioned. So, again, I worked hard
• 2:49:43
  Speaker 1: on that. This time, I invented a piece of software
• 2:49:45
  Speaker 1: to help me do that. And I was able to
• 2:49:50
  Speaker 1: find more uh, more, uh, vulnerabilities. Uh, and so I
• 2:49:56
  Speaker 1: show up at my project defense and it's, uh, it's
• 2:50:00
  Speaker 1: like a committee of different deans and students and all that. Uh,
• 2:50:04
  Speaker 1: and so I go up and I start, um, explaining my,
• 2:50:08
  Speaker 1: my project and like, I run a scan against the
• 2:50:11
  Speaker 1: university network and it showed a bunch of red, like
• 2:50:13
  Speaker 1: there's vulnerabilities. And one of the, uh, teens is like, no,
• 2:50:18
  Speaker 1: that's fake. You, that's not true. It started, dawning in
• 2:50:22
  Speaker 1: me that i was like a pawn in some kind
• 2:50:24
  Speaker 1: of power struggle power struggle so that that guy was
• 2:50:27
  Speaker 1: responsible for the universal system and this guy's using me
• 2:50:30
  Speaker 1: too i was like oh shit but like i'm not
• 2:50:35
  Speaker 1: gonna back down i was like no that's not a
• 2:50:37
  Speaker 1: lie it's true uh and so uh i'd like tap
• 2:50:40
  Speaker 1: into that universe uh vulnerability and i go in a
• 2:50:42
  Speaker 1: database and i'm like um All right, what do you
• 2:50:46
  Speaker 1: want me to show, your salary or your password? It
• 2:50:49
  Speaker 1: was like, show me your password. So I showed them
• 2:50:52
  Speaker 1: the password, and I was like, no, that's not my password,
• 2:50:56
  Speaker 1: and it was encrypted. But they also have in the
• 2:50:59
  Speaker 1: database like a decrypt function, which they shouldn't have, but
• 2:51:02
  Speaker 1: they had it. So I was like, decrypt to the password,
• 2:51:05
  Speaker 1: and the password showed on the screen in the middle
• 2:51:07
  Speaker 1: of the defense in Soviet. his face was red. He
• 2:51:11
  Speaker 1: shakes my hand and he leaves to change his password.
• 2:51:18
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 2:51:19
  Speaker 1: And I graduated and, you know, they cut me some
• 2:51:21
  Speaker 1: slack and I was able to graduate.
• 2:51:24
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. That's a great story. We'll end with that.
• 2:51:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much, brother. I really appreciate it. It
• 2:51:29
  Speaker 2: was really fun. That was a great conversation.
• 2:51:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:51:33
  Speaker 2: Your app, let everybody know about it.
• 2:51:34
  Speaker 1: Replit, R-E-P-L-I-T dot com.
• 2:51:36
  Speaker 2: How did I find it? There it is.
• 2:51:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:51:38
  Speaker 2: Replit. Yeah. Replit.com.
• 2:51:40
  Speaker 1: Go make some apps.
• 2:51:41
  Speaker 2: Go make some apps, people. Avoid the whatever the hell's
• 2:51:45
  Speaker 2: going to happen for the AI. All right. Thank you
• 2:51:47
  Speaker 2: very much. Thank you.
• 2:51:48
  Speaker 1: Bye, everybody.