Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 419: Going Undercover and Directing for VICE with Natalia Leite

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BPS 419: Going Undercover and Directing for VICE with Natalia Leite · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four nineteen.
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Speaker 1: Do what you love, because when you're six feet under,
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Speaker 1: you're going to realize the race that you were running
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Speaker 1: was only against yourself. Mango Wilder broadcasting from a dark, windowless.
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Speaker 2: that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you
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Speaker 2: the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how
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Speaker 2: to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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Speaker 1: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show
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Speaker 1: is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script
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Speaker 1: head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com. Now today on
1:38
Speaker 1: the show, we have writer director n Italia late It
1:41
Speaker 1: and she is easily one of the bravest filmmakers I've
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Speaker 1: ever run into. She's a documentary filmmaker as well as
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Speaker 1: a narrative filmmaker and has had films premiere at south
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Speaker 1: By Southwest and Tribeca, and was even nominated for Best
1:58
Speaker 1: Picture at the south By Southwest Film Festival for her
2:02
Speaker 1: film MFA. She has worked with Vice on multiple projects,
2:07
Speaker 1: one being one of the most interesting things I've ever
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Speaker 1: seen a filmmaker do. And this young filmmaker threw herself
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Speaker 1: into this documentary in ways that I have not seen
2:18
Speaker 1: before that she actually became not only the writer and
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Speaker 1: director of this but the subject of the piece. And
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Speaker 1: the film is called Life as a Truck Stop Stripper
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Speaker 1: and Natalia did this for Vice and it's been downloaded
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Speaker 1: and watched over eleven million times on YouTube. It is
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Speaker 1: a heart wrenching documentary, wonderfully done, and I advise everyone
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Speaker 1: listening to definitely check that piece out among all the
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Speaker 1: things that she's done. But I will put links to
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Speaker 1: all of that in the show notes at the end
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Speaker 1: of the episode. So without any further ado, please enjoy
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Speaker 1: my conversation with Natalia late It. I like, welcome to
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Speaker 1: the show, Natalia late It. Thank you so so much
3:03
Speaker 1: for being on the show. Thank you, alex I, thank
3:07
Speaker 1: you so much. No, it's it's I was. I was
3:11
Speaker 1: showing your work and introduced to your work recently, and
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Speaker 1: I have to say I'm fairly impressed.
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Speaker 3: Thank you.
3:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a wide range of things that I've been
3:20
Speaker 4: doing here.
3:21
Speaker 1: So before we get into it, how did you actually
3:22
Speaker 1: get started in the business.
3:25
Speaker 4: So I actually came from a visual arts background. I
3:29
Speaker 4: went to art school. I didn't have a proper film education.
3:33
Speaker 4: I thought I wanted to be making visual art and
3:37
Speaker 4: then quickly realized that that maybe wasn't the medium for me,
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Speaker 4: and I started getting into film just just out of
3:45
Speaker 4: my own curiosity, and you know, eventually assisting other directors,
3:51
Speaker 4: one thing led to the next, started writing my own
3:53
Speaker 4: scripts and just kind of like DIY being scrappy doing
3:57
Speaker 4: it myself and realized that I to telling stories in
4:01
Speaker 4: this medium and.
4:03
Speaker 1: What was what? So you basically that was the genesis
4:07
Speaker 1: of you wanted to be a directors. You've just kind
4:09
Speaker 1: of fell into it and like I really.
4:11
Speaker 4: Like this, right, yeah, I fell into it and discovered
4:15
Speaker 4: that I really liked it.
4:16
Speaker 3: Honestly, it wasn't really in my radar.
4:17
Speaker 4: I grew up in Brazil and I just I don't know,
4:20
Speaker 4: it just wasn't like presentable a career path that was
4:24
Speaker 4: like presented to me ever that I really thought this
4:26
Speaker 4: could be an option, you know, but I knew I
4:29
Speaker 4: wanted to do something creative, and I knew I wanted
4:31
Speaker 4: to tell stories. It was just like taking another form
4:35
Speaker 4: back then. And it all like one thing led to
4:40
Speaker 4: the next. Like I was assisting a lot of other
4:43
Speaker 4: directors and producers for a while, and I started writing
4:47
Speaker 4: my own work and the first thing that sort of
4:51
Speaker 4: started to put my work out there was be Here Now,
4:55
Speaker 4: which was Wish be Here Now Wish, which was a
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Speaker 4: web show that I you know, started, directed, wrote, produced,
5:04
Speaker 4: did the sound sometimes like just.
5:05
Speaker 1: Like Craft Services got it.
5:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, Aircraft Services did everything with a handful of friends,
5:12
Speaker 4: and that you know started kind of putting the wheels
5:16
Speaker 4: in motion in terms of me doing this as a career.
5:19
Speaker 1: Which is fun because I actually saw a little bit
5:21
Speaker 1: of that show and it actually looks really good, like
5:24
Speaker 1: it actually has great production value for being such a
5:28
Speaker 1: scrappy little show. So congratulations on that.
5:31
Speaker 4: I'll credit that to Dalmar who was our DP. Dalma,
5:34
Speaker 4: we've were mad since she's shooting High Maintenance now on
5:38
Speaker 4: HBO and she is just the queen of just like
5:41
Speaker 4: let's figure it out and still make it look gorgeous.
5:45
Speaker 4: So yeah, she's really lucky to have her as a
5:47
Speaker 4: friend and DP on that.
5:48
Speaker 1: You definitely need people like that on your crew as
5:51
Speaker 1: a director. Yes, let's figure it out and like let's
5:55
Speaker 1: still make it look gorgeous. That's always a yeah.
5:58
Speaker 4: It's like we're like pulling in, you know, like whatever
6:01
Speaker 4: we could find, just like bringing in lamps and just
6:03
Speaker 4: you know, attaching things like just trying to be creative
6:06
Speaker 4: of how we're going to get a good image and
6:08
Speaker 4: not make it look super low quality. So she's she's
6:12
Speaker 4: really creative in that way.
6:13
Speaker 1: So let me ask you, how did you get that
6:16
Speaker 1: first project, that series up off the ground. I mean,
6:19
Speaker 1: obviously you need some money. Where did you find money?
6:21
Speaker 1: How did you put this whole thing together? How did
6:23
Speaker 1: you put that show together?
6:25
Speaker 3: Yeah?
6:26
Speaker 4: So the show we you know, it really started off
6:28
Speaker 4: as Okay, let's do this on weekends with friends, like
6:31
Speaker 4: I just want to get I just want to get
6:32
Speaker 4: work out there in the world, right, And then so
6:35
Speaker 4: everyone was working for free. But then obviously, like there
6:38
Speaker 4: came points when okay, we really do need money. We
6:41
Speaker 4: can't just like keep this going for nothing. And we
6:46
Speaker 4: ended up doing a Kickstarter. We raised twenty thousand on
6:50
Speaker 4: that Kickstarter.
6:51
Speaker 3: Nice, which was like a lot of work.
6:55
Speaker 4: It's like, not a lot of money at all for
6:57
Speaker 4: making a series. You know that ended up being like
7:00
Speaker 4: an hour and a bit long. But we really stretched
7:04
Speaker 4: it out and made those twenty k on Kickstarter and
7:08
Speaker 4: and through that met like other investors. It was actually
7:11
Speaker 4: a pretty successful campaign for us because we just met
7:16
Speaker 4: a lot of people that then ended up financing other projects.
7:19
Speaker 1: And where and where is it being shown now?
7:23
Speaker 3: So be here now?
7:24
Speaker 4: Is is still on We ended up selling the first
7:28
Speaker 4: season to a company called Aura, so they have it
7:31
Speaker 4: on their site. And then the second season we had
7:34
Speaker 4: it with full screen, which full screen no longer exists.
7:38
Speaker 4: So now it's just up on our Vimeo, and we're
7:41
Speaker 4: trying to figure out if we can just like throw
7:43
Speaker 4: it up on YouTube because for us at this point,
7:47
Speaker 4: it's just about, you know, letting people watch it. I mean,
7:49
Speaker 4: it's it's you know, it's older. It's old now I
7:51
Speaker 4: consider it for.
7:52
Speaker 1: Yes ancients, like three years old. It's like three years old.
7:56
Speaker 1: My god, then it's like the eighties.
8:00
Speaker 3: But I want people to still watch it. You know,
8:03
Speaker 3: I've aged a bit since I was doing that.
8:05
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, oh yes, yes, you look aggared lately. I'm sorry.
8:09
Speaker 3: Yes, it's my youth, so you can go back to
8:13
Speaker 3: your youth.
8:14
Speaker 1: Is my youth is fading away in front of you? Yes,
8:16
Speaker 1: those three years really killed it. Now what is it
8:22
Speaker 1: for you? It's ferally ask you, So what is your
8:24
Speaker 1: process when you're creating or selecting a project?
8:30
Speaker 3: My process?
8:31
Speaker 4: So I need to gravitate towards things that I feel
8:34
Speaker 4: a personal connection to, that I feel really passionate about, because,
8:38
Speaker 4: as you know, it's just You're going to work on
8:41
Speaker 4: this thing for so long sometimes you don't even know
8:43
Speaker 4: how long, and you got to just like love it.
8:46
Speaker 4: And I feel like, for me, I need to feel
8:48
Speaker 4: it's an instinctual thing, Like I need to feel like
8:50
Speaker 4: there's like a chord from my heart to whatever the
8:54
Speaker 4: script or concept is. That's like pulling me towards it.
8:59
Speaker 4: And there's been a lot, you know. Now I'm reading
9:02
Speaker 4: other people's scripts, deciding like what to do next, writing
9:06
Speaker 4: my own stuff as well, But for me, it's always
9:09
Speaker 4: just like I have to just check in intuitively too.
9:12
Speaker 4: Is there a really strong pool, like do I feel
9:15
Speaker 4: called to absolutely have to do this?
9:17
Speaker 3: You know?
9:17
Speaker 4: Otherwise I might love a story and be like, oh
9:20
Speaker 4: this is great, but I'm not feeling so passionate about
9:22
Speaker 4: It's probably not for me, like I shouldn't be the
9:24
Speaker 4: one to do it, you know.
9:25
Speaker 3: And I think it's really good to discern that.
9:28
Speaker 1: Well, tell me a little bit about your work with
9:30
Speaker 1: Vice and how that came about, especially that amazing documentary
9:34
Speaker 1: every Woman Life as a Truck Stop Stripper, which is
9:38
Speaker 1: when I saw that, I was like, I have to
9:40
Speaker 1: have her on the show. I need to hear all
9:44
Speaker 1: about this Yeah.
9:46
Speaker 4: So I had been writing on my own a script
9:49
Speaker 4: for my first features called Bert and a big part
9:53
Speaker 4: of the script took place in a strip club.
9:55
Speaker 3: But I didn't want.
9:58
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a wh from our sponsor
10:04
Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
10:07
Speaker 4: But it's sort of like a strip club in a
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Speaker 4: small town, and I was looking for something that was like,
10:12
Speaker 4: you know, just off off the highway ideally, right, Like
10:16
Speaker 4: I didn't want like a big nightcluby.
10:18
Speaker 3: Strip club in the city, in the city, right right.
10:20
Speaker 4: And I had friends at the time. I didn't know
10:22
Speaker 4: where I was going to shoot, but I had friends
10:23
Speaker 4: who were living in Albuquerque, and I went there on
10:27
Speaker 4: like a month you know, hiatus while I was writing
10:30
Speaker 4: the script to go live in Albuquerque and ended up
10:33
Speaker 4: like touring all the strip clubs in the area as
10:37
Speaker 4: I was like doing research and ended up finding out
10:40
Speaker 4: about this club that is about forty five minutes away
10:44
Speaker 4: from Albuquerque in the middle of nowhere.
10:46
Speaker 3: Like you're driving on.
10:47
Speaker 4: Highway forty nothing, nothing, nothing, you pass the Walmart, then
10:51
Speaker 4: there's nothing, nothing, nothing, and then and then there's like
10:54
Speaker 4: the signs that are just like tapless and then there
10:56
Speaker 4: is like Club two, O three and it just catered
11:00
Speaker 4: to truckers.
11:01
Speaker 3: So the truckers passing by.
11:03
Speaker 4: They can tune into a CB radio and they'll pick
11:06
Speaker 4: up the signal and it'll be someone at the club
11:09
Speaker 4: being like tonight on stage is candy and you know
11:12
Speaker 4: whatever they say, and they'll like turn off into the
11:15
Speaker 4: side of the road. And I found out about this place.
11:18
Speaker 4: I went there alone for the first time and I
11:20
Speaker 4: was just like, what what is this?
11:21
Speaker 1: It sounds it sounds like it sounds insane.
11:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just like it was like straight out
11:26
Speaker 4: of a David Lynch movie.
11:29
Speaker 1: I was expecting people to start talking backwards and there'll
11:31
Speaker 1: be a little person just walking by from no.
11:35
Speaker 3: Exactly.
11:36
Speaker 4: I was like, wow, this is really fascinating. And it
11:38
Speaker 4: was just you know the Ryan who's the guy who
11:40
Speaker 4: owns it. It was like very much no rules type
11:44
Speaker 4: of place, and that there was like in terms of
11:46
Speaker 4: the dancing, like you could do whatever you want. They
11:48
Speaker 4: had this rocking horse that they would pull on stage
11:50
Speaker 4: sometimes and there was like, uh, you know, just like
11:55
Speaker 4: a mom and dad daughter dance Like it was like yeah,
11:59
Speaker 4: there was like serving stuff going on too, And I
12:01
Speaker 4: was like, I don't know about this. That's just Okay,
12:07
Speaker 4: a lot of stuff that didn't end up in the piece.
12:08
Speaker 4: But anyway, so I was like, wow, this place, aside
12:11
Speaker 4: from I wanted to put it in my feature film
12:14
Speaker 4: as a location, it deserves a piece on its own, right,
12:17
Speaker 4: So I put I pitched Avice. Well, I went there,
12:21
Speaker 4: you know, I had gone there alone, filmed a little
12:23
Speaker 4: bit of just films on my own, a little bit
12:25
Speaker 4: to show a sample of like what this really is,
12:28
Speaker 4: and then went back and then went to Vice with
12:32
Speaker 4: my friend Alexandra who was working with at the time,
12:36
Speaker 4: to pitch as like a standalone piece and Vice. This
12:40
Speaker 4: was like Eddie Moretti, who was the the you know,
12:43
Speaker 4: creative there. He was like, ah, you know, we get
12:46
Speaker 4: pitched like stripper concepts all the time, like we're not interested.
12:50
Speaker 4: And I was like, no, no, no, you don't understand, Like
12:52
Speaker 4: I want to go and work there. And he's like, oh, okay,
12:55
Speaker 4: like you're that's that sounds crazy. So it sounds gave
12:58
Speaker 4: us so luny right, yeah, And we went and worked
13:02
Speaker 4: and lived there for about ten days.
13:04
Speaker 1: All right, So before we continue that story, how did
13:06
Speaker 1: you get to Vice? Because I know a lot of
13:08
Speaker 1: filmmakers would love to have that conversation with somebody advice,
13:11
Speaker 1: How do you how do you approach a company like that?
13:14
Speaker 3: Yeah? So okay.
13:16
Speaker 4: I went to a panel where Eddie Muretti was speaking.
13:20
Speaker 4: It was a Tribeca Film Festival organized panel, and at
13:23
Speaker 4: the end of the panel, I cornered him.
13:26
Speaker 1: To say, you accosted him, got it?
13:28
Speaker 3: I did, so did like thirty other people right.
13:31
Speaker 1: Right, as you do at panels.
13:34
Speaker 3: As you do it panels.
13:35
Speaker 4: And I was like, I have something that you're going
13:38
Speaker 4: to be really interested in seeing. And he's like, yeah, okay, great,
13:42
Speaker 4: reach out and just gave me his assistants email, you know.
13:46
Speaker 4: And I reached out and I sent him a link
13:48
Speaker 4: to a piece that I had shot in Cuba. This
13:52
Speaker 4: was like before every Woman that was very like I had,
13:56
Speaker 4: you know, edited it like really fast, very like vice style,
13:59
Speaker 4: and I just tend the link and I didn't say
14:01
Speaker 4: much else and he called me like right away.
14:04
Speaker 3: It was like, get come in, come in tomorrow. You know.
14:06
Speaker 1: It's like that's awesome.
14:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's just sometimes that stuff works, you know,
14:11
Speaker 4: but you got to be like smart about how you're
14:14
Speaker 4: approaching it, Like you people, these people don't have time, right,
14:18
Speaker 4: so it's like hey, like what's going to grab their attention?
14:21
Speaker 4: And what what do I have that they want?
14:23
Speaker 3: Right?
14:24
Speaker 4: And that was it, like I just met him in
14:26
Speaker 4: a panel. There was no you know from there like
14:30
Speaker 4: it opened up the scope and then we did every
14:32
Speaker 4: Woman and then he called me back to do you know,
14:35
Speaker 4: direct other things, and but that stuff is possible, like
14:39
Speaker 4: the just cold calling sometimes were it does.
14:44
Speaker 1: And I'm actually I'm quite jealous because I am actually
14:46
Speaker 1: Cuban and I've never been to Cuba yet. So when
14:49
Speaker 1: I saw that piece that you did, I was like, oh,
14:51
Speaker 1: that would have been amazing.
14:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, he has really special place.
14:54
Speaker 4: I felt really lucky to be there and at that
14:56
Speaker 4: time especially and film it.
14:59
Speaker 1: So all right, So so now you're back at the club.
15:02
Speaker 1: Was it club too two.
15:03
Speaker 3: Two o three because that's just the highway exit, right.
15:06
Speaker 1: So you're a club two o three and you're there
15:09
Speaker 1: for ten days.
15:10
Speaker 4: I'm there for ten days and that was me Alexandra
15:14
Speaker 4: who came and was working with me at the time
15:18
Speaker 4: and vice sent us with one producer. This was prior
15:20
Speaker 4: to Viceland, so it was a little bit like still
15:24
Speaker 4: you know, no rules, like I mean, we were putting
15:27
Speaker 4: ourselves in dangerous situations like I think that that would
15:29
Speaker 4: fly today.
15:31
Speaker 1: Yeah you think I saw it? I saw it? Are
15:33
Speaker 1: you are you kidding me?
15:35
Speaker 3: Yeah? Really dangerous.
15:36
Speaker 4: And I don't know that I would do it today
15:38
Speaker 4: because now I know a little more.
15:40
Speaker 1: Well, obviously you're much older. Obviously I'm so much older.
15:43
Speaker 4: I have a lot of gray hair. A good thing
15:45
Speaker 4: to interview, isn't a video?
15:49
Speaker 3: Not want to see what I.
15:50
Speaker 1: Look like exactly exactly? No, I mean, I mean when
15:53
Speaker 1: I saw it, I was like, this can't be. I
15:55
Speaker 1: can't believe that these girls did this, Like this is
15:58
Speaker 1: so and the guys you met work, I know, I mean.
16:03
Speaker 4: It was intense. Yeah, I think what I realized too.
16:06
Speaker 4: But you know, the whole idea about it was I
16:08
Speaker 4: wanted to go in there to try to debunk what
16:12
Speaker 4: are the stereotypes of a stripper and like why women
16:15
Speaker 4: decide to do this and the stereotypes of a truckers
16:17
Speaker 4: that go into these clubs, right, And I really feel
16:20
Speaker 4: like it sort of opened my mind to what's possible
16:24
Speaker 4: or what kind of you know, what what the our
16:27
Speaker 4: like own limitations are of who those people are. And
16:30
Speaker 4: you know, there's like one woman who we interviewed Daisy
16:33
Speaker 4: who was talking about how she feels like it's for calling,
16:37
Speaker 4: it's she loves doing the work because she feels like
16:40
Speaker 4: she's a therapist to these men, and that's sort of like, oh,
16:44
Speaker 4: we we never stopped to think about that, you know,
16:46
Speaker 4: maybe yeah, like that, that's a version of it. And
16:51
Speaker 4: also some of the guys all across the board, but
16:55
Speaker 4: people just wanted someone to talk to in a connection,
16:58
Speaker 4: and I think it was like a less about being
17:00
Speaker 4: naked and more about them feeling like someone was caring
17:05
Speaker 4: for them and wanting.
17:07
Speaker 3: To listen to their stories. You know.
17:10
Speaker 4: Of course that's just there's also then like this the
17:12
Speaker 4: creepy guy who tries to like grab you, and there's extremes.
17:15
Speaker 1: There's the extremes of both ends.
17:17
Speaker 3: Right exactly.
17:17
Speaker 4: But it's not all bad, you know, And we definitely
17:21
Speaker 4: saw that. And some of the stories from the men
17:23
Speaker 4: were really intense and it was hard to listen to it.
17:26
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you a question when you were
17:28
Speaker 1: in that when you were in that moment, how, i
17:31
Speaker 1: mean psychologically, how was it for you, Because I mean,
17:35
Speaker 1: I'm watching this and I'm going I'm just thinking to myself,
17:38
Speaker 1: this is your young lady who's put herself in this
17:41
Speaker 1: situation with her friend for god knows what reason. And
17:45
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, how, what's the psychology, What's going on? Because
17:49
Speaker 1: this is not one one night thing. You were there
17:52
Speaker 1: for ten days, so this was a day in, day out.
17:56
Speaker 1: It's not like I'm going to try this for one
17:57
Speaker 1: night and I can go back home. You came back
18:00
Speaker 1: and again and again, and like, how did that wear
18:03
Speaker 1: on you? Not only as the subject of it, but
18:06
Speaker 1: also as I mean, you were directing that as well. Correct, Yeah,
18:10
Speaker 1: so how did you do that?
18:13
Speaker 3: I don't know.
18:14
Speaker 4: I think a lot of sometimes I look back and
18:17
Speaker 4: I think about my best work is stuff that I'm
18:20
Speaker 4: terrified to do or terrified to talk about, and it's almost.
18:24
Speaker 3: Like I just keep but I just keep the ball rolling.
18:28
Speaker 4: And then you know, and then eventually it hits a
18:30
Speaker 4: moment when there's no turning back right and you're like, ah,
18:34
Speaker 4: this is happening, Like this is now out in the world.
18:37
Speaker 4: And I feel like this project was exactly that. Like
18:39
Speaker 4: I was terrified to be there. I mean, I was
18:43
Speaker 4: also having fun with it, but it was just like
18:45
Speaker 4: really intense, emotionally draining and physically draining, and I was
18:50
Speaker 4: terrified of like putting this out in the world, you know.
18:53
Speaker 1: Because you're exposing yourself and not not in that way,
18:56
Speaker 1: but you're exposing your you're basically your soft thunderbelly to
19:00
Speaker 1: the entire world.
19:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So it was just a lot of exposure.
19:04
Speaker 4: But you know, eventually you just hit a deadline and
19:06
Speaker 4: you're like you're just pressed send and that's it and
19:08
Speaker 4: then it's out. It's like has a mind of its
19:09
Speaker 4: own and it's going to be whatever it needs to be.
19:12
Speaker 4: But I think it was just, yeah, like every day
19:16
Speaker 4: it was a bit of a challenge, but you just
19:18
Speaker 4: kind of keep going because that's there's no way, there's
19:21
Speaker 4: no other way around it, you know, just put yourself
19:23
Speaker 4: to keep going.
19:24
Speaker 1: Now, you are, from what I see in your work,
19:27
Speaker 1: you are extremely raw and vulnerable. Is that something that
19:31
Speaker 1: comes naturally to you or do you have to work
19:33
Speaker 1: at it to be able to kind of expose yourself
19:36
Speaker 1: as an artist?
19:37
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, I think it comes naturally to me. I
19:39
Speaker 3: think I'm just naturally.
19:42
Speaker 4: Have a can tap into that sensitivity and being very empathetic,
19:46
Speaker 4: and you know, I do end up just feeling things intensely,
19:51
Speaker 4: and then sometimes I wonder if that's a hindrance, but
19:55
Speaker 4: more so now I feel like that's an advantage.
19:59
Speaker 1: We'll be right after a word from our sponsor and
20:05
Speaker 1: now back to the show.
20:08
Speaker 3: That I'm able to.
20:10
Speaker 4: You know, when I'm connecting with actors, just like feel
20:12
Speaker 4: what they're feeling deeply, and just look at performance and
20:16
Speaker 4: scenes and just be really connected on an emotional level.
20:20
Speaker 4: I think it's actually really important for my work, and.
20:24
Speaker 1: You and you agree that that's probably some of your
20:26
Speaker 1: best work. Is the more scary it is, the more
20:28
Speaker 1: extreme it might be, more vulnerable it might be. Is
20:31
Speaker 1: where you find that your work really shines.
20:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do, And because that's what I want to be,
20:39
Speaker 4: you know, pushing the conversation forward, and I want to
20:43
Speaker 4: be just doing stuff that is making us think about
20:48
Speaker 4: things differently, making us feel more connected, and that sometimes
20:53
Speaker 4: times goes and you know, deal with things that we're
20:56
Speaker 4: not talking about. So like, for instance, and even to
20:58
Speaker 4: be here now is there was I wanted to do
21:00
Speaker 4: a storyline about a guy who was HIV positive and
21:06
Speaker 4: how do you deal with that in the dating world? Right,
21:08
Speaker 4: So like there's it's just a little piece of it
21:10
Speaker 4: in the in the series, but it's like why are
21:14
Speaker 4: we not talking about this?
21:15
Speaker 3: Right?
21:15
Speaker 4: Like, I have a cousin who's HIV positive and and
21:19
Speaker 4: these stories are interesting to me, and there's just not
21:22
Speaker 4: enough of these conversations out there. So but it's always
21:25
Speaker 4: scary because you're like, oh, this is kind of going
21:27
Speaker 4: into a dangerous territory.
21:29
Speaker 3: That is it going to offend someone?
21:32
Speaker 4: Like right, Like, you just don't know, and I'm I
21:36
Speaker 4: always try to push myself to to have those conversations
21:40
Speaker 4: re least open it up.
21:41
Speaker 1: I find that, you know, by doing the kind of
21:43
Speaker 1: work that I do, and also just being a filmmaker myself,
21:46
Speaker 1: that it's it's extremely difficult to be raw and vulnerable
21:50
Speaker 1: with your work. And I find that so many filmmakers
21:53
Speaker 1: hide behind falsehoods or create these walls that you can
21:59
Speaker 1: smell on their work. You can just smell it like, oh,
22:03
Speaker 1: they didn't go all the way. Oh they just they
22:05
Speaker 1: pulled back at the last moment. And it's only the
22:08
Speaker 1: ones that go all the way that you go, oh,
22:11
Speaker 1: there it is. And you see that in performances, you
22:13
Speaker 1: see that in directors, you see that in writers. So
22:17
Speaker 1: that's why I find your work so interesting because you
22:19
Speaker 1: are still early on in your career. I know you're ancient,
22:22
Speaker 1: but you're still early on in your career, and I'm
22:25
Speaker 1: really curious to see the kind of work that you'll
22:27
Speaker 1: do in ten years, because you only, by the way,
22:31
Speaker 1: being someone who's older than you, you only get braver.
22:35
Speaker 1: I feel as you get older, because you start giving
22:37
Speaker 1: less of a shit.
22:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's good to remember that. Thank you.
22:43
Speaker 4: I always like, yeah, I always feel like I have
22:45
Speaker 4: to push myself and it's always scary. But I do
22:48
Speaker 4: feel like it's sometimes like you're just standing on the
22:50
Speaker 4: edge of the cliff and you're like, oh my god,
22:51
Speaker 4: am I gonna do Am I gonna do it? And
22:52
Speaker 4: you just have to jump into the waterfall or whatever.
22:55
Speaker 3: You just have to do it.
22:56
Speaker 1: But that's why we're here. That's why we're here. Why
22:59
Speaker 1: are you going to play it safe? That's not that's boring.
23:02
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to go and be a
23:05
Speaker 1: stripper for ten days at a truck stop in Albuquerque
23:08
Speaker 1: because that's just not my path and really I would
23:11
Speaker 1: get no tips.
23:12
Speaker 3: But uh.
23:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody wants.
23:16
Speaker 3: To see that.
23:17
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to see that documentary, I promise you. So
23:24
Speaker 1: what was it like with your first feature film Bear,
23:26
Speaker 1: which was based uh, not based on but kind of
23:29
Speaker 1: uh it's in the world of every Woman. When I
23:33
Speaker 1: got accepted to Tribeca, I mean, what was that experience?
23:36
Speaker 1: Like I always anytime I have a filmmaker who gets
23:38
Speaker 1: into like Tribeca or Sundance or can or something like that,
23:41
Speaker 1: I always want to hear the story of when they
23:43
Speaker 1: find out.
23:44
Speaker 3: I mean so thrilled.
23:46
Speaker 4: You just don't know, Like you go into it all
23:49
Speaker 4: just hoping for the best, and it was the best.
23:52
Speaker 3: It was really the best cause scenario for me.
23:54
Speaker 4: It was like I wanted so vallely a premiere there
23:56
Speaker 4: and you're just.
23:57
Speaker 3: Waiting and waiting, and.
24:01
Speaker 4: I was so thrilled, and I was so impressed because
24:03
Speaker 4: the festival they do such an amazing job. They take
24:06
Speaker 4: such good care of their filmmakers. We weren't we didn't
24:09
Speaker 4: know what to expect, but you know, they gave us
24:11
Speaker 4: the red carpet, they gave us a party, like it was.
24:13
Speaker 4: It felt incredible.
24:15
Speaker 3: It was really Yeah, it was really phenomenal.
24:19
Speaker 1: Now I see, I see that you're like putting yourself
24:21
Speaker 1: in yourself in your work. How do you handle being
24:24
Speaker 1: in front and behind the camera.
24:29
Speaker 4: So it's a little challenging for me, which is honestly
24:31
Speaker 4: why I'm not putting myself in my work as much anymore,
24:34
Speaker 4: because I feel like it's hard for me to focus
24:37
Speaker 4: on two things at once, being totally focused on my
24:41
Speaker 4: character and then also like directing the scene.
24:44
Speaker 3: You know.
24:45
Speaker 4: So I still will like throw myself a little scene
24:48
Speaker 4: just for fun because.
24:49
Speaker 1: I like that, you'll pop yourself in once in a while,
24:52
Speaker 1: share you'll do your hitchcock.
24:54
Speaker 3: Got it.
24:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, But I just really am staying by behind the
24:59
Speaker 4: camera right now because I want to craft the story
25:01
Speaker 4: and I think like just staying you know, more connected
25:05
Speaker 4: to the actors and the whole picture is really important.
25:07
Speaker 3: I really don't know how.
25:09
Speaker 4: People are managed to do that, and like being the
25:12
Speaker 4: lead of a movie and also like directing, it seems
25:15
Speaker 4: really hard to.
25:15
Speaker 1: Me, Like the Clinice Woods of the world and the
25:17
Speaker 1: George Colonies of the world, Like I'm like, how do
25:19
Speaker 1: you how do you do that?
25:21
Speaker 3: Right?
25:21
Speaker 4: I mean maybe like there's a point when you have
25:24
Speaker 4: the really solid support system that you can you can
25:28
Speaker 4: lean on them. I think for me, I'm still building
25:31
Speaker 4: out like who those people are, and when I find
25:35
Speaker 4: crew that I love, I'm just like Okay, like we're family. Now,
25:39
Speaker 4: you're coming with me everywhere because it's so you know,
25:42
Speaker 4: being on side is so intense, So you just want
25:44
Speaker 4: to have that rapport with you just want to assemble
25:47
Speaker 4: the family that you're going to carry around to every
25:49
Speaker 4: project without question.
25:50
Speaker 1: I mean my last film, The Future, I just directed,
25:53
Speaker 1: I was in it unfortunately, and uh it was it
25:57
Speaker 1: was difficult. For the one scene or two scenes that
26:00
Speaker 1: I did. I was just like, oh, how do you do?
26:02
Speaker 1: How does people do this?
26:04
Speaker 4: No, it's really hard because you can't you can't be
26:06
Speaker 4: in the moment and also be thinking big picture at
26:09
Speaker 4: least I care right.
26:10
Speaker 1: Or unless you unless you have that trust behind the
26:13
Speaker 1: camera that you're like, Okay, my DP is going to
26:15
Speaker 1: cover me while I'm in this scene. And and and
26:18
Speaker 1: then you just after you yell cut, you like was
26:20
Speaker 1: it good? I have no idea?
26:21
Speaker 3: Right, That's how I was like, did I do good?
26:25
Speaker 1: Is that any? Is there?
26:26
Speaker 3: Is that?
26:26
Speaker 1: Really? And then all of a sudden you turn Intoto
26:28
Speaker 1: the actor. You're like you're looking for like approval, liked
26:32
Speaker 1: did I do good? Can I do it again?
26:35
Speaker 3: But then no one wants to tell you now.
26:38
Speaker 1: But that's when you want that DP to go, dude,
26:41
Speaker 1: did did do it again? Just but generally they're going, no,
26:44
Speaker 1: it's the light was off, And I'm like, I don't
26:46
Speaker 1: care about the light. I care about the performance right
26:50
Speaker 1: right now? What do you enjoy to create more narrative
26:55
Speaker 1: features a series or documentaries?
26:59
Speaker 4: I I love narrative features. I love like having an arc,
27:05
Speaker 4: like a very clear troductory beginning, middle, and end that
27:08
Speaker 4: we're going through and thinking about how like the character
27:12
Speaker 4: is transforming in that. I think series like it can
27:14
Speaker 4: just go on forever, right, so there's like less of
27:18
Speaker 4: that clear hook. I like just even like as someone
27:22
Speaker 4: who like reads so many psychology books and thinks about
27:26
Speaker 4: how we transform as humans in the world, like, I
27:29
Speaker 4: love that beginning to end journey. But yeah, but I
27:34
Speaker 4: also think, like sometimes on the like features is so hard,
27:39
Speaker 4: I would say, like, because you have to have a
27:42
Speaker 4: clear end, right, Like you can't just be like and
27:45
Speaker 4: then maybe in season two this happens, right like it
27:48
Speaker 4: has to stop. And I like crafting that and the
27:52
Speaker 4: dock stuff for me is just fun because I like
27:54
Speaker 4: dealing with real people so more so, I've been trying
27:57
Speaker 4: to find ways to merge the two, right, Like, put
28:02
Speaker 4: real people in my scripted work and then also get
28:05
Speaker 4: actors to be in nonscripted situations and sort of create
28:08
Speaker 4: a fusion of.
28:09
Speaker 1: That, kind of like what Sean Baker does.
28:11
Speaker 4: I love Sean Baker. Yeah, I'm a big fan of
28:14
Speaker 4: his work.
28:14
Speaker 1: Sean's awesome. I mean, the Florida Project. I have no
28:17
Speaker 1: idea why that was not. It didn't get more. It
28:21
Speaker 1: should have won more stuff. It was just amazing.
28:22
Speaker 4: Oh great, he's a Yeah, he's lovely and we've talked
28:26
Speaker 4: a few times and just been really supportive.
28:29
Speaker 3: Awesome, throned as well.
28:30
Speaker 1: Now, tell me a little bit about your film MFA,
28:32
Speaker 1: which having gone chance to see the movie, but I
28:35
Speaker 1: saw the trailer and I was I was again blown
28:38
Speaker 1: away by the by the subject matter and how you
28:42
Speaker 1: twisted something that normally doesn't get shown that way.
28:45
Speaker 3: Yeah. So MFA. Leah McKendrick was the writer on it.
28:50
Speaker 3: She wrote it and she is also.
28:53
Speaker 4: An actress, and she had just seen my work and
28:56
Speaker 4: just send me a cold email and was like, Hi,
28:58
Speaker 4: I'm looking for director.
28:59
Speaker 3: I love for you to consider this.
29:01
Speaker 4: And normally I'm like, oh, I don't you know, Like
29:05
Speaker 4: normally this stuff is not good. But when I get
29:07
Speaker 4: these emails. But I read her log line and she
29:10
Speaker 4: sent me the script and I was like, oh, wow,
29:12
Speaker 4: like this is really really strong, and it was just
29:16
Speaker 4: surprising to just get an email like that. And so
29:19
Speaker 4: her and I started talking. She already had some financing
29:21
Speaker 4: in place. It was a small movie, so private investors
29:25
Speaker 4: piecing it together and yeah, and then we were shooting
29:30
Speaker 4: pretty quickly, but it was it worked out really well.
29:33
Speaker 4: It was like also one of those magical collaborations because
29:37
Speaker 4: we didn't know each other at all. I didn't know
29:39
Speaker 4: any of the people that she had already assembled, you know,
29:41
Speaker 4: producer wise for the project, but we all got along
29:45
Speaker 4: really well and made something really special. And the story,
29:51
Speaker 4: you know, has I had like a deep personal connection
29:55
Speaker 4: to it, having gone to art school.
29:56
Speaker 3: I had been sexually assaulted when I was in art school.
29:59
Speaker 4: So it was almost like, oh, I have to make
30:01
Speaker 4: this project right.
30:04
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
30:10
Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
30:14
Speaker 4: And Francesca Eastwood, who played the lead, was just I
30:19
Speaker 4: was just so blown away by her and her performance
30:22
Speaker 4: and throwing herself into some pretty difficult scenes like talking
30:27
Speaker 4: about like things that make you terrified right. Shooting that
30:31
Speaker 4: rape scene with Francesca was terrifying to me, and I
30:35
Speaker 4: was so and we did so many different cuts of it,
30:38
Speaker 4: and I was so worried that it was because it's
30:40
Speaker 4: truly disturbing, Like a lot of people of course, brought
30:44
Speaker 4: that scene up as like it's too raw and real
30:47
Speaker 4: and but yeah, you got to just push yourself to.
30:51
Speaker 3: Go there.
30:53
Speaker 1: And and again. When you do that is when it
30:55
Speaker 1: starts to show. The work starts to shine more and more.
30:57
Speaker 1: If you would have held back there, the movie might
30:59
Speaker 1: have had the same impact.
31:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
31:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, So can you tell, just tell the audience a
31:05
Speaker 1: little bit that the log line if you will love
31:06
Speaker 1: the movie.
31:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
31:07
Speaker 4: So, MFA is about an art student getting her Masters
31:10
Speaker 4: of Fine Arts and she has a crush on a
31:13
Speaker 4: boy in her class, which is played by Peter Vack,
31:16
Speaker 4: and he ends up raping her at a party she
31:20
Speaker 4: asks she kind of from then on ends up seeking
31:24
Speaker 4: revenge and hunting down slash killing the rapist on campus.
31:31
Speaker 4: So it's a rape revenge story, but in a very
31:33
Speaker 4: different tone than what we've seen before.
31:36
Speaker 1: It's not as much I spit on your grave, not
31:38
Speaker 1: at all.
31:39
Speaker 4: No, No, it is very raw and emotional. It's very
31:42
Speaker 4: much her point of view and really into her.
31:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is.
31:46
Speaker 1: It is a kind of a like you were saying,
31:49
Speaker 1: it is a little bit of a combination of the
31:52
Speaker 1: real and the fictional. Because of the way you shot it,
31:56
Speaker 1: at least from the trailer, it doesn't look like a
31:59
Speaker 1: Hollywood fly She film, but it also doesn't look like
32:02
Speaker 1: a documentary. It looks a little high Brish, high British.
32:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does.
32:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I wanted it to be accessible to people, right,
32:09
Speaker 4: So I think about that too, like who's the audience
32:11
Speaker 4: for this? And I want I want it to be
32:14
Speaker 4: fast and fond too. And there's a version of it
32:18
Speaker 4: that could have just been a really depressing movie, and
32:19
Speaker 4: I didn't want that to.
32:21
Speaker 3: Be it, you know.
32:21
Speaker 4: I wanted you to be like cheering for her and
32:24
Speaker 4: excited when she gets her revenge. And there is a part,
32:28
Speaker 4: especially in the second half of the movie, where it
32:31
Speaker 4: really is more like playing off of the fun and
32:34
Speaker 4: excitement of her getting what she wants.
32:36
Speaker 1: Oh, there's some humor in the trailer without questions, so
32:38
Speaker 1: I could only imagine, Yeah.
32:40
Speaker 4: There's definitely humor in it too. It's kind of like
32:42
Speaker 4: a bridge of different genres.
32:44
Speaker 1: Here, which isn't which is an interesting take on the
32:46
Speaker 1: subject matter, because you're right, it could have. It could
32:48
Speaker 1: have just gone straight dark real quick and stayed there,
32:51
Speaker 1: and it's hard to get an audience back from that.
32:55
Speaker 4: And I thought about it, I was like, nobody wants
32:57
Speaker 4: to watch that. You know, we need to also have
32:58
Speaker 4: some levity and fun with it. We need to be able.
33:01
Speaker 4: It needs to feel cathartic for people watching it.
33:04
Speaker 1: Now, what are some of your greatest challenges about the
33:07
Speaker 1: process of making films?
33:11
Speaker 3: Greatest challenges?
33:12
Speaker 1: I mean on set, creative, dealing with Hollyweired, dealing with
33:18
Speaker 1: money Hollywood for sure, how does that work? Like, I
33:24
Speaker 1: just can't see you in a room with an agent
33:29
Speaker 1: talking about this stuff, like, no, it's Holleyweird.
33:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
33:35
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm an East Coast guy, so I've
33:37
Speaker 1: been out here. I've been out here for ten years,
33:39
Speaker 1: so I have a completely different perspective on living out here.
33:44
Speaker 1: I wasn't raised out here, so I see it and
33:46
Speaker 1: I've been around long enough to just go, yeah, this
33:48
Speaker 1: is hollyweird. But I just like, because so many times
33:51
Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles, people just don't get things that
33:54
Speaker 1: are outside the box. Where you live outside the box,
33:56
Speaker 1: you're not ever in the box. And any of the
33:58
Speaker 1: work that I've seen, so I would just love to
34:01
Speaker 1: be a fly on the wall. See you have a
34:04
Speaker 1: conversation with a Hollywood agent or Hollywood producer or Hollywood
34:08
Speaker 1: studio like, so to Talia, what would you like to
34:11
Speaker 1: do next? Well, you know, there's this stripper thing that
34:13
Speaker 1: I have going.
34:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been really into body horror lately.
34:18
Speaker 4: I've been pitching body horror.
34:22
Speaker 1: Idea body what is it? Body horror?
34:26
Speaker 4: Body horror so like Horrorberg. Yeah, Oh, it does a
34:30
Speaker 4: lot of that right where it's like horror, but it's
34:32
Speaker 4: really like happening to you and to your body, very very.
34:37
Speaker 1: I think Disney's involved. I think Disney you get involved.
34:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
34:41
Speaker 4: It's really interesting and some people, you know, I just
34:44
Speaker 4: keep trying to remind myself, because you can try try
34:47
Speaker 4: to remind myself to like stick by my integrity, stick
34:50
Speaker 4: by my morals, just do what I feel is right
34:53
Speaker 4: and not get persuaded by these the hollyweird part of it,
34:58
Speaker 4: which is a lot of people who you know, you know,
35:02
Speaker 4: maybe they're even presenting you with like a shiny opportunity
35:05
Speaker 4: and it looks really good and you want to go there, right,
35:08
Speaker 4: but you're like, wait, this isn't me. I can't do this,
35:11
Speaker 4: or it's an opportunity that means you'd have to like
35:16
Speaker 4: like burn bridges on something else or upset of you know.
35:19
Speaker 4: So it's like you just have to stay there. It
35:22
Speaker 4: is a crazy industry and you have to. I just
35:25
Speaker 4: keep always like checking back in with myself and be
35:27
Speaker 4: like does this make me feel good?
35:28
Speaker 3: Is this me?
35:30
Speaker 4: Like do I really want to do this? Like does
35:31
Speaker 4: this represent what kind of work I want to put
35:34
Speaker 4: out in the world? And I think that's so important.
35:37
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm lucky right now because my agents are
35:40
Speaker 4: actually really awesome, my managers as well, the people that I'm.
35:45
Speaker 3: In touch with.
35:45
Speaker 4: But I've circled, I've cycled through agencies, you know already,
35:49
Speaker 4: even in the like short career that I've had, already
35:51
Speaker 4: like jumped around to different agencies. So hopefully this is
35:56
Speaker 4: the one that I stay with like long term because
35:58
Speaker 4: I really like these people. And it's all about the
36:00
Speaker 4: relationships you know, that you're building.
36:03
Speaker 1: And do you have any what's it like the greatest
36:05
Speaker 1: challenge of you like on set, Like, what's the biggest
36:08
Speaker 1: thing that you have to deal with on set? That
36:09
Speaker 1: is just a big challenge for you.
36:11
Speaker 4: Collaboration, I think collaboration and always trying to be super
36:15
Speaker 4: clear with your vision like from day one because other
36:18
Speaker 4: people might not get it. Making sure you're on the
36:22
Speaker 4: same page. But it's always hard when you want to push.
36:26
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's hard to explain things right like in MFA,
36:30
Speaker 4: I like really want to push for a certain thing,
36:32
Speaker 4: but it's not one hundred percent my project. And the
36:35
Speaker 4: more of work you do, or the bigger the work gets,
36:38
Speaker 4: the more that's going to be the scenario right where
36:40
Speaker 4: there's other producers and other people and weighing in on
36:44
Speaker 4: what the final outcome is and it can't only be
36:46
Speaker 4: your way, so and all that can be quite amazing
36:53
Speaker 4: to have that collaboration.
36:55
Speaker 3: It is also like a huge.
36:56
Speaker 4: Challenge sometimes how to get people to do what you
37:00
Speaker 4: really ultimately want out of it.
37:01
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I agree with you one hundred and ten
37:04
Speaker 1: percent of that hard, but.
37:06
Speaker 4: You know you have to like make some sacrifices too.
37:08
Speaker 4: And I felt like in every project like that, it
37:11
Speaker 4: was like all right, you know, you get this, but
37:13
Speaker 4: then I have to keep I have to keep this sting.
37:15
Speaker 1: The you know one thing trying to go I'm sorry,
37:19
Speaker 1: they're gonna in shorpt you No.
37:21
Speaker 4: That's it just trying to find a compromise, like let's
37:24
Speaker 4: let's split up, like so we're both happy here.
37:27
Speaker 1: I find that, you know, I've been you know, in
37:29
Speaker 1: my career, I've been challenged on set by crew people,
37:32
Speaker 1: by actors, by egos constantly. How do you deal with it?
37:38
Speaker 1: Because I could only imagine it being even more difficult,
37:43
Speaker 1: you know, being a female director, it's getting easier, and
37:45
Speaker 1: I can't say from my perspective, it seems like it's
37:47
Speaker 1: getting a little The doors are opening cracking just a
37:50
Speaker 1: slight bit more nowadays than they were twenty years ago.
37:53
Speaker 1: But I can only imagine it being a little bit
37:55
Speaker 1: more difficult, especially if you have a rough crew or
37:58
Speaker 1: something like that. I'm just curious on what you do
38:00
Speaker 1: and how you deal with that.
38:03
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, I think it's it's a challenge. I
38:05
Speaker 4: think also I present, you know, I'm small, I'm like
38:09
Speaker 4: five four, I'm petite in size to you know, like
38:14
Speaker 4: Latin small woman and look and you know, people like
38:19
Speaker 4: don't it's and I'm also like I want to be
38:22
Speaker 4: really friendly with the crew, you know, I want everyone
38:25
Speaker 4: to feel good that they're here on set, but that
38:27
Speaker 4: sometimes that gets like misinterpreted and people think they can
38:30
Speaker 4: just yeah, and I've had to just turn you know,
38:37
Speaker 4: be really firm. Sometimes they're really like call call out
38:40
Speaker 4: the bullsh like, hey, do you want to be here?
38:43
Speaker 4: You do actually want to do this? Because you don't
38:45
Speaker 4: have to you can walk away like I've literally said.
38:47
Speaker 3: That to someone, you know, oh yeah, absolutely, and yeah.
38:52
Speaker 4: And then you call them out on their bullshit, they'll
38:53
Speaker 4: be like oh no, no, no, whoa, whoa whoa, like they'll
38:56
Speaker 4: snap out of it, you know. But I think it's
38:58
Speaker 4: always better to be super upfront and call it out,
39:01
Speaker 4: and even if that means having a super awkward conversation
39:04
Speaker 4: then to pretend like it's you know, to like go
39:08
Speaker 4: around to other people or pretend like it's not happening,
39:10
Speaker 4: or just be giving someone shady look.
39:14
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's it's I feel sometimes it's like a
39:17
Speaker 1: prison yard, like they're going to test you to see
39:21
Speaker 1: what they can get away with. And season crew, season crew.
39:25
Speaker 1: If they don't respect the director, it's done any crew
39:29
Speaker 1: for that matter. But if a season crew like a
39:31
Speaker 1: season dp a season you know, gaffer and and a
39:35
Speaker 1: production designer. If these guys or girls don't respect you
39:40
Speaker 1: or think that they can pull one over on you,
39:41
Speaker 1: it becomes a very difficult shoot.
39:44
Speaker 3: It's really difficult.
39:45
Speaker 4: I've also had situations where, you know, I was working
39:50
Speaker 4: with like season men particularly who were like a lot
39:55
Speaker 4: older than me and who just couldn't even look me
39:58
Speaker 4: in the eye.
40:01
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
40:07
Speaker 1: and now back to the show, you know.
40:10
Speaker 4: Like they would be addressing my producer even though the
40:14
Speaker 4: question was to me, and it was so odd, right,
40:18
Speaker 4: and I just felt like I was like, I have
40:20
Speaker 4: to say something because it's so obvious that this person's
40:22
Speaker 4: uncomfortable that I'm in this position with them, right they
40:25
Speaker 4: came and look at me in the face, you know,
40:28
Speaker 4: and yeah.
40:29
Speaker 1: You have to just I think the best advice is
40:32
Speaker 1: you just got to call them out on your shit,
40:33
Speaker 1: on their shit right away, because if you let it fester,
40:36
Speaker 1: it can actually grow as a cancer on the rest of.
40:38
Speaker 3: The set, right and exactly, and all of.
40:40
Speaker 1: A sudden, you've got a mutiny on your hands. And
40:42
Speaker 1: if you're on a ten day shoot, twenty days shoot,
40:45
Speaker 1: it's going to be hell and it's going to be
40:47
Speaker 1: tough to get them back.
40:48
Speaker 3: So, you know what.
40:51
Speaker 4: The other thing that makes me think of is just
40:52
Speaker 4: like I think sometimes too because people I've had so
40:55
Speaker 4: many people tell me like this is the right way
40:58
Speaker 4: to do it, right, and I'm like, what is the
41:00
Speaker 4: right way.
41:01
Speaker 3: To do There's no right way to do anything. There's
41:03
Speaker 3: no right way to do it.
41:04
Speaker 4: And just because like, yeah, I didn't go to film school,
41:07
Speaker 4: I don't know what the right way to do it,
41:09
Speaker 4: but this is the way that I want to do
41:10
Speaker 4: it because I think it works, you know, and having
41:13
Speaker 4: people let go of like their ideas of what is
41:16
Speaker 4: how it's supposed to go.
41:18
Speaker 3: You know.
41:18
Speaker 4: I'm not talking about like union rules or anything, just
41:20
Speaker 4: like forms of directing or putting things together. It's just challenging.
41:25
Speaker 1: Well no, yeah, I had a conversation with the filmmaker
41:27
Speaker 1: the other day that, you know, he does all of
41:29
Speaker 1: his films improv. He does it the you know, Mark
41:32
Speaker 1: Duplus style, Joe Wamberg style, you know kind of work.
41:37
Speaker 1: And I gave the example of like, look, you know,
41:40
Speaker 1: if you give you know, Jason Jackson, Pollock, Van goh
41:45
Speaker 1: and Dolly a canvas and paint. They're going to paint
41:48
Speaker 1: a picture differently, right, the only common denominator is the
41:52
Speaker 1: canvas and the paint in the brush, And only common
41:54
Speaker 1: denominated in filmmaking is an actor, a camera and a lens.
41:59
Speaker 1: You know, and how you tell that story is completely
42:02
Speaker 1: up to you. You know, as long as you get
42:04
Speaker 1: that story that in that camera. Somehow it's all relative.
42:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
42:10
Speaker 4: Any you have to like push for what is your
42:12
Speaker 4: vision and your style, otherwise everything ends up the same.
42:15
Speaker 1: And one piece of advice I got from a director,
42:18
Speaker 1: an old school director. I've never done this. I haven't
42:20
Speaker 1: had the balls to do it, but I think it
42:21
Speaker 1: would be fantastic to do it just as a gag
42:24
Speaker 1: the very first day on any set, nobody knows who
42:28
Speaker 1: you are, bring one of your friends on and fire them.
42:33
Speaker 1: Just bring they're just they're they're not supposed to be there.
42:36
Speaker 1: Just bring one of your friends, tell them that they're like,
42:38
Speaker 1: you know, a part of an apartment and they do
42:41
Speaker 1: something wrong, and literally fire them as loudly as you
42:44
Speaker 1: can in front of everybody and let them take off,
42:48
Speaker 1: and that will set the tone for the rest of
42:50
Speaker 1: the shooting.
42:51
Speaker 4: That would totally set the tone that was terrify people.
42:55
Speaker 1: You know, But I'm not sure if that's the vibe
42:57
Speaker 1: you want on set. But I've always wanted to do
42:59
Speaker 1: something I've never done. I've never had the balls to
43:01
Speaker 1: do it, but I think it would be hilarious.
43:05
Speaker 3: That would be hilarious. That was so funny.
43:08
Speaker 4: I mean, that's not my style, right, we want people
43:11
Speaker 4: to just get along.
43:13
Speaker 1: Exactly like you know, Ron Howard's not doing that. You know,
43:16
Speaker 1: James Cameron.
43:17
Speaker 3: Probably would maybe, yeah, I would.
43:19
Speaker 1: It all depends on the style of directing that you do.
43:23
Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about your commercial work.
43:25
Speaker 1: I see that you've gotten gotten into that world a bit.
43:28
Speaker 3: Yeah.
43:28
Speaker 4: So on the commercial side, I've been working with a
43:31
Speaker 4: production company called Humble and I signed with them earlier
43:34
Speaker 4: this year and it's been amazing, really good team there,
43:38
Speaker 4: and they've we've crafted you know, they've sent me like
43:41
Speaker 4: already to different parts of the world for different shoots.
43:44
Speaker 4: So I did a doc style shoot in India for Vans.
43:49
Speaker 4: We did a thing for north Face here and I
43:52
Speaker 4: actually just got back from Saudi Arabia to do another
43:56
Speaker 4: commercial out there, which was pretty wild. So it's been
43:58
Speaker 4: a really and fun part of my career to be
44:02
Speaker 4: able to travel, deal with real people, and have obviously
44:07
Speaker 4: like the money support behind it as well. Yes, when
44:11
Speaker 4: you're writing, your steps can be very lonely and the
44:14
Speaker 4: bank account can be very low.
44:16
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. I do commercials and series and stuff
44:19
Speaker 1: every once in a while between my features as well,
44:21
Speaker 1: So I completely understand what you're saying.
44:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, so's it's been wonderful working with them.
44:27
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna ask you a few questions. I ask
44:29
Speaker 1: all of my guests what advice would you give a
44:32
Speaker 1: filmmaker wanting to break into.
44:33
Speaker 4: The business today, I would say, do you have to
44:39
Speaker 4: have a lot of grit and you have to really
44:43
Speaker 4: stick by what is it that you're putting out into
44:45
Speaker 4: the world. I don't think it's enough to just you know,
44:50
Speaker 4: here's like, oh, here's like an entertaining story. Like we
44:52
Speaker 4: live in a world where there's like a lot of
44:55
Speaker 4: change happening constantly, and I'm all about, like.
44:58
Speaker 3: What are you saying with this?
45:00
Speaker 4: Why does this deserve to be here in the world
45:03
Speaker 4: for people to watch, right, And just like don't give up.
45:08
Speaker 3: There's going to be there's so many people that give
45:10
Speaker 3: up along the way.
45:11
Speaker 4: You know, it's like there is just be patient and
45:14
Speaker 4: persevere and that's how you get it.
45:16
Speaker 3: You know. It's like not.
45:20
Speaker 4: People want a lot of like immediate gratification, and it's
45:24
Speaker 4: like you have to enjoy the journey too. I constantly
45:26
Speaker 4: keep reminding myself of that, like, yeah, I want to
45:28
Speaker 4: do this big thing, but it could take years.
45:30
Speaker 3: I don't know.
45:31
Speaker 4: I just have to keep going, but I know I'm
45:33
Speaker 4: going to get there.
45:33
Speaker 3: You know.
45:34
Speaker 1: I always love when actors or film directors or writers
45:37
Speaker 1: come to LAN and they go, I have a six
45:39
Speaker 1: month plan, right.
45:43
Speaker 4: I would love for these things to happen in six months,
45:46
Speaker 4: but if they don't, then don't give up.
45:48
Speaker 1: It's a minimum.
45:50
Speaker 4: Well, you have to have the five year plan. I
45:52
Speaker 4: have my five year plan like every every and I
45:55
Speaker 4: reevaluate it every year. I'm like, Okay, here's where I
45:58
Speaker 4: want to be five years. What are the steps to
46:00
Speaker 4: getting there? Like here's this crazy big budget project that
46:05
Speaker 4: I've been wanting to do already for a few years,
46:08
Speaker 4: and I feel so strongly about it. I'm not going
46:10
Speaker 4: to give up on it. I'm just going to keep
46:12
Speaker 4: finding ways to get there. You know, having that like
46:16
Speaker 4: long term vision is really important.
46:18
Speaker 1: Now, can you tell me the book that had the
46:20
Speaker 1: biggest impact in your life or career?
46:31
Speaker 4: Well, I mean this is a hard question, just.
46:35
Speaker 1: One book, But I once everyone comes to your mind,
46:38
Speaker 1: you know.
46:39
Speaker 4: I think Rebecca Soulnett comes to my mind right now
46:41
Speaker 4: because I've read all of her books and I love
46:43
Speaker 4: her writing, and I feel so connected to her voice
46:48
Speaker 4: and how she thinks about the world. And it's just
46:51
Speaker 4: always like I've reread her books and it just always
46:55
Speaker 4: like opens up possibilities for me.
46:59
Speaker 1: Awesome. Now, what is the lesson that took you the
47:01
Speaker 1: longest to learn, whether in the film industry or in life.
47:08
Speaker 3: Confidence. I'm still learning.
47:12
Speaker 1: It that you need that we need to have some.
47:16
Speaker 4: That that the lesson being just like you gotta believe
47:21
Speaker 4: in yourself.
47:21
Speaker 3: You know.
47:22
Speaker 4: It is the lesson of believing in yourself. It's just
47:26
Speaker 4: like so easy to forget that your voice is important.
47:30
Speaker 1: Now, what are the three What are three of your
47:32
Speaker 1: favorite films of all time?
47:37
Speaker 3: Three your favorite films? Opayly think for a second. I'm
47:47
Speaker 3: gonna say I love the Piano.
47:51
Speaker 1: That's a great movie. I love that movie.
47:53
Speaker 3: It's a great movie.
47:55
Speaker 4: I've watched that film a few times and more just like,
47:57
Speaker 4: oh so beautiful and there's so much emotion behind it.
48:00
Speaker 4: Holly Hunter is incredible.
48:06
Speaker 3: I love oh the movies. This is hard. Wait, let
48:13
Speaker 3: me come back to it.
48:15
Speaker 1: It could it could just be like, it's not gonna
48:17
Speaker 1: be on your gravestone, so just three of your favorites.
48:20
Speaker 3: Don't put it on my gravestone.
48:21
Speaker 1: No, No, it's whatever three movies come to your mind today.
48:24
Speaker 3: Okay.
48:25
Speaker 4: I loved Fish Tank. That's been like a film that
48:28
Speaker 4: I referenced a lot that was Relliant Love and dre Arnold.
48:34
Speaker 4: There's this filmmaker called Lucia Puenzo that did a film
48:37
Speaker 4: called x x Y.
48:38
Speaker 3: Have you seen it?
48:39
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, I know that movie.
48:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really like her work.
48:43
Speaker 4: I thought that film was just so subtle and emotional
48:46
Speaker 4: and just a strong subject matter. Very cool, the same
48:51
Speaker 4: vein right now. Maybe that's just how I'm feeling in
48:53
Speaker 4: the moment.
48:54
Speaker 1: It listened tomorrow.
48:55
Speaker 3: I asked you this question, Yeah, something else exactly.
48:58
Speaker 1: It's it's again, it won't be on your so don't worry.
49:01
Speaker 1: And where can people find you online?
49:07
Speaker 4: You can find me on Instagram or Twitter or on
49:10
Speaker 4: my website, which is just my name Natalia elated dot
49:14
Speaker 4: com and I love to stay in touch with people.
49:16
Speaker 3: I love to talk to people. I always right back,
49:19
Speaker 3: so unless you're sending me like a creepy comment.
49:22
Speaker 1: So Natalia, thank you so much for sharing your journey
49:27
Speaker 1: and your process with us. And you are an inspiration too.
49:32
Speaker 1: I know a lot of filmmakers who are going to
49:33
Speaker 1: be listening to this, so thank you again for taking
49:35
Speaker 1: out the time.
49:36
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Alex.
49:38
Speaker 1: I want to thank Natalia for coming on and dropping
49:41
Speaker 1: those knowledge bombs and sharing her process on how she
49:45
Speaker 1: brings her creativity to life. If you want to need
49:49
Speaker 1: links or trailers, or just want to watch some of
49:52
Speaker 1: the amazing work that Natalia does, head over to our
49:55
Speaker 1: show notes at Bulleproof Screenwriting dot tv. Ford Slash for nineteen.
49:59
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to guys as always,
50:01
Speaker 1: keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
50:05
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
50:09
Speaker 2: Screenwriting dot tv.