Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / The Great $10 Forgery: A Family's Story | Ken Mutton

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The Great $10 Forgery: A Family's Story | Ken Mutton · Real Crime with Adam Shand

0:05
Speaker 1: Apote production.
0:11
Speaker 2: Welcome to real crime with Adam Shann. I'm your host,
0:13
Speaker 2: Adam Shand it was the most audacious of crimes committed
0:16
Speaker 2: by the most unlikely of gangs. In nineteen sixty six,
0:20
Speaker 2: four ordinary suburban guys plus one master crook forged Australia's
0:25
Speaker 2: new ten dollar banknote.
0:28
Speaker 3: Melbourne Police believe thousands of forged ten dollar notes are
0:31
Speaker 3: in circulation in all Australian states. Reserve a counterfeit ten
0:37
Speaker 3: dollar note, the first found in the Canberra area, has
0:41
Speaker 3: been passed across the bar of a Quimbean hotel.
0:45
Speaker 2: The venture collapsed in treachery and deceit, but led to
0:48
Speaker 2: the creation of the world's first plastic currency and an
0:52
Speaker 2: export industry for Australia. So there is a legacy from
0:55
Speaker 2: this unfortunate crime. My guest today, Ken Mutton was charged
0:59
Speaker 2: with being a part of the caper, which was the
1:00
Speaker 2: brainchild of his father, Jeffrey Mutton, who died back in
1:03
Speaker 2: the early two thousands. Welcome to real crime, Kenny. This
1:06
Speaker 2: is a story that changed the course of your life
1:08
Speaker 2: and your families. What was your dad thinking? What sort
1:11
Speaker 2: of bloke was he? Yeah?
1:12
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I was in the bank when it
1:14
Speaker 1: all happened to my first job, I joined the bank,
1:17
Speaker 1: and of course it's the worst place to boo when
1:20
Speaker 1: you want to do something like this. But he was,
1:24
Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't always around for a while there,
1:28
Speaker 1: and we sort of realized what he was up to
1:32
Speaker 1: one day when he come in and just threw a
1:35
Speaker 1: bunch of notes on the table and asked me to
1:38
Speaker 1: count it. Oh yeah, So I counted it, and I
1:42
Speaker 1: picked out all the dad notes, and then we knew
1:44
Speaker 1: what he was up to.
1:46
Speaker 2: Because this was this was in December of nineteen sixty six,
1:50
Speaker 2: and the decimal currency had come in in February of
1:54
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six. Now this would be the first time
1:57
Speaker 2: I'll ever sing on my podcast, but you might you
1:59
Speaker 2: might remember. The little jingle they came up with back
2:01
Speaker 2: in the day was something like income dollars income the sense.
2:07
Speaker 3: To replace the pounds and the shillings and the pens
2:11
Speaker 3: being prepared folks when the coins begin to mix on
2:14
Speaker 3: the ford. In the February nineteen sixty.
2:17
Speaker 1: Six law was in a bank, so was the sole
2:20
Speaker 1: part of the out of the bank lotch all that
2:23
Speaker 1: sort of thinging.
2:23
Speaker 2: That's right, because he had he had been planning this
2:28
Speaker 2: for some time. It was all made possible by the
2:30
Speaker 2: Castetna color printer, which came out about the same time
2:33
Speaker 2: as the ten dollar notes, and that's what made it possible.
2:36
Speaker 2: And I've actually he wrote a manuscript ten years for
2:39
Speaker 2: ten dollars, which has never been published, and you and
2:43
Speaker 2: I looked at it over the years. I've sort of
2:45
Speaker 2: put together some thoughts and some background based on that manuscript,
2:49
Speaker 2: So I'll just do a bit of it before we
2:50
Speaker 2: get into some of these questions here. But you know,
2:53
Speaker 2: I imagine that on that day, the twenty third of
2:56
Speaker 2: December nineteen sixty six, he's ready to go with his
3:00
Speaker 2: big plan and he takes some money into a hotel
3:05
Speaker 2: well in Melbourne's East and you can imagine the scene.
3:08
Speaker 2: He's there, going this is it. His heart's pounding in
3:12
Speaker 2: his chest. He pulled a wad of counterfeit ten dollar
3:15
Speaker 2: notes from the glove box of the hr Holden and
3:18
Speaker 2: headed into a pub in Melbourne's East. Now it had
3:20
Speaker 2: a watermark and a metallic thread printed onto the surface
3:24
Speaker 2: on the strath bond number eight paper, I believe, so
3:27
Speaker 2: it was pretty good and the notes were perfect, but
3:30
Speaker 2: for the feel At the last minute, the team added
3:33
Speaker 2: some floor wax to get the weight right. But your
3:37
Speaker 2: dad was nervous. He wasn't a professional, professional crook. He
3:41
Speaker 2: was a failed shopkeeper of anything, and he was about
3:43
Speaker 2: to launch a bold attack on Australia's new decimal currency.
3:47
Speaker 2: December twenty third, ninety sixty six and the banks were
3:50
Speaker 2: closed for Christmas, to reopen five days later, plenty of
3:53
Speaker 2: time to pass one hundred and sixty thousand dollars worth
3:56
Speaker 2: of the notes before the alarm might be raised. Your
4:00
Speaker 2: dad hesitantly laid the first tenor on the bar, the
4:03
Speaker 2: face of the convict Forger Francis Greenway staring up at
4:06
Speaker 2: him from the note. Beer please, he said, holding his breath.
4:09
Speaker 2: A twelve cent beer, said the barman. He took the
4:13
Speaker 2: note and he dumped the change on the bar in
4:16
Speaker 2: front of your dad. Martin drained the beer in one gulp,
4:19
Speaker 2: a sense of relief spreading over him. What a lark,
4:23
Speaker 2: he thought, This is dead easy. So he goes to
4:26
Speaker 2: every bar in the pub and passed and noted each,
4:28
Speaker 2: his confidence growing with each handful of change he pocketed.
4:31
Speaker 2: He left the beers on the counter and he had
4:33
Speaker 2: straight for the row of shops adjoining to cash more.
4:37
Speaker 2: He was soon out of money and rushed back to
4:38
Speaker 2: the car from war. By eleven PM, your dad had
4:42
Speaker 2: three thousand dollars of real money in his pocket and
4:45
Speaker 2: he was euphoric. The tax officer had taken his delicatessant
4:48
Speaker 2: and put it out of business. This was his revenge,
4:51
Speaker 2: I think, he used to say. He and his accomplices
4:53
Speaker 2: had made their own money using a Gestetna color offset printer.
4:58
Speaker 2: The worst nightmare of the Reserve Bank Governor H. C.
5:00
Speaker 2: Nugget Combs was about to come true. Public confidence in
5:03
Speaker 2: his state of the art currency was about to be rocked.
5:07
Speaker 2: As he drove home to Ashburton in Melbourne's East, your
5:10
Speaker 2: dad was floating on air. There was another two hundred
5:13
Speaker 2: and forty thousand dollars worth of passable notes buried in
5:16
Speaker 2: the back garden, along with another six hundred thousand dollars
5:20
Speaker 2: worth of rejects been made in nine months of trial
5:23
Speaker 2: and error. At six pm, unbeknowns to your dad, his
5:28
Speaker 2: brother had given his wife two counterfeit notes to do
5:31
Speaker 2: the shopping. She had no idea they were fakes, and
5:34
Speaker 2: casually bought a box of chocolates for sixty five cents
5:38
Speaker 2: at the corner store. The shop assistant was already used
5:41
Speaker 2: to handling the new currency and this note just didn't
5:44
Speaker 2: feel right. She followed your dad's sister in law to
5:48
Speaker 2: the car and noted the registration plates. By the time
5:52
Speaker 2: your dad got home, the police were tearing up the
5:54
Speaker 2: house looking for the horde of fake cash. You were
5:57
Speaker 2: there that night, Tell it, recreate the scene for us.
6:00
Speaker 1: Ah, Well, it was at our house in who spent
6:04
Speaker 1: lean And well, I mean we were there, Me and
6:09
Speaker 1: my mother and my sister were there on that night
6:13
Speaker 1: that they come and they sort of just barged in
6:17
Speaker 1: and guns with guns in the air, and just we
6:21
Speaker 1: sort of were shocked. And there was money there with
6:26
Speaker 1: in a bag with groceries and stuff. So I put
6:29
Speaker 1: down my bed and just to get it, because I said,
6:32
Speaker 1: I didn't know there were police. I do you know
6:34
Speaker 1: who was at the door. So I put in the
6:37
Speaker 1: bed and then they barged in and they went into
6:42
Speaker 1: my room and there was the money on the bed
6:44
Speaker 1: and there was as far as I know, there was
6:46
Speaker 1: no more forgery in that money, but there was eventually,
6:51
Speaker 1: so I presume they put something in there. But anyway,
6:55
Speaker 1: that's and then they.
6:56
Speaker 2: Put something in there. They think they that they framed you.
6:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon they framed, but didn't at that part
7:02
Speaker 1: of it. Anyway.
7:03
Speaker 2: What a shock though, and Dad, Dad drives up and pandemonium.
7:08
Speaker 2: He's thinking, he's floating on air. He's just broken the bank.
7:11
Speaker 2: He's tried everything under the sun to maker money. He
7:13
Speaker 2: was a bit of a chance, a year old man,
7:15
Speaker 2: I got to say. And nothing had ever really gone right,
7:17
Speaker 2: but this was about to go right, but it was about
7:20
Speaker 2: to go horribly wrong.
7:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
7:22
Speaker 2: He was.
7:23
Speaker 1: He liked the money and he wanted He was always
7:26
Speaker 1: buying and selling businesses to make money and houses. And
7:31
Speaker 1: I mean we traveled around all over the place when
7:33
Speaker 1: we were younger. We hardly settled anywhere, and he would
7:37
Speaker 1: he was always chasing the dollar. And I thought that
7:40
Speaker 1: maybe this is probably his big his big deal. He
7:43
Speaker 1: was going to make some money.
7:44
Speaker 2: Because the tax office had already put him out of
7:46
Speaker 2: business in the delicates and down it rose.
7:47
Speaker 1: But I believe, but I know that they put him
7:50
Speaker 1: out of business because we were on sell true business
7:53
Speaker 1: in a year and he was buying businesses and selling
7:57
Speaker 1: them and we did more than three in one year.
8:01
Speaker 1: It would have been sixty three, sixty four or something
8:03
Speaker 1: like that in Chester Road and then we lost that house.
8:08
Speaker 2: See it had a bit of an unsettled childh Well,
8:10
Speaker 2: my dad was chasing his dreams pretty much.
8:12
Speaker 1: Chasing money, chasing money, money and trying to get money.
8:17
Speaker 2: Yeah right. Was he a lovable rogue?
8:21
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It was always a good little party, it was.
8:24
Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun, yeah, but it was
8:26
Speaker 1: dancing and doing stupid things.
8:29
Speaker 2: But there because his big opportunity to finance this caper
8:34
Speaker 2: came when he had some sort of touch shop down
8:36
Speaker 2: at Rose But I understand and a fellow called Robert
8:39
Speaker 2: Bertram Douglas. Kid used to go there and Bertie was
8:44
Speaker 2: probably one of Australia's most complete crooks. He and he
8:48
Speaker 2: died a couple of weeks. I went to his funeral actually,
8:50
Speaker 2: and he was a safe breaker, an armed robber, a burglar,
8:53
Speaker 2: horse doper and a dedicated corruptor of police. He was
8:57
Speaker 2: criminal royalty from about the sixties through to his jailing
9:00
Speaker 2: for a series of hold ups in the early nineteen nineties.
9:03
Speaker 2: Money was really the motivator for Kid. It was more
9:05
Speaker 2: about the scoreboard that beating any system that kept him
9:09
Speaker 2: away from the loot was probably more important than the
9:11
Speaker 2: loute itself. He once stole. Did you notice he stole
9:15
Speaker 2: twenty three kilos of gold from the cargo of a
9:17
Speaker 2: courier plane by sending himself inside a box on the
9:20
Speaker 2: same flight. But that's another story. So when he saw
9:24
Speaker 2: this opportunity to forge the tend all the note with
9:28
Speaker 2: your dad, he jumped at it. And he even though
9:32
Speaker 2: even though he knew your dad wasn't a crook as such,
9:35
Speaker 2: normally he dealt with organized criminals, but he decided to
9:40
Speaker 2: get involved. And he said, how much is it going
9:42
Speaker 2: to cost to buy the printer and get the plates
9:46
Speaker 2: done and the whole thing and get the thing in production?
9:49
Speaker 2: And he apparently your dad ripped him off, which wasn't
9:53
Speaker 2: a clever thing to do really, because he was a bird.
9:56
Speaker 2: He probably killed a couple of people, and there were
9:58
Speaker 2: a couple of heavy moments. But he said to kid
10:01
Speaker 2: that it would take twenty thousand dollars to set up
10:03
Speaker 2: this Castettna two one printing press and the equipment required
10:07
Speaker 2: to make the photographic plates. It actually only cost about
10:10
Speaker 2: five thousands, so he'd already pocketed about fifteen thousand. Anyway,
10:15
Speaker 2: so Bertie was into this and he goes straight from
10:18
Speaker 2: a meeting with your dad and he goes to the
10:21
Speaker 2: Hampton Hotel in Bayside, Melbourne, which he had been told
10:24
Speaker 2: by his corrupt police officers that there was so much
10:28
Speaker 2: money in this safe they could hardly close the door.
10:31
Speaker 2: So he cut that open. He gets twenty eight thousand
10:34
Speaker 2: dollars from that and hands over the money to your dad.
10:38
Speaker 2: See where the whole thing went wrong is they didn't
10:42
Speaker 2: listen to Bertie. Bertie's plan was to take the forged coin,
10:47
Speaker 2: forged dollars and go out to the opal field by
10:50
Speaker 2: the entire output of the opals there get real cash
10:53
Speaker 2: for that, because no one has seen these dollars out
10:56
Speaker 2: in the bush. So we'd get the opals and then
11:00
Speaker 2: cash them in and send a whole bunch of other
11:02
Speaker 2: money up to Hong Kong for the money changes, and
11:05
Speaker 2: so we'd get into real currency. But your dad had
11:10
Speaker 2: other ideas. Unfortunately, he had other ideas well.
11:14
Speaker 1: He included the family and his owes, and that was
11:17
Speaker 1: a stupid move. I think I don't know why he
11:21
Speaker 1: included all family, but that was ridiculous and we knew.
11:25
Speaker 1: He knew we lived at Rosebud for three years, and
11:29
Speaker 1: he knew Robert Kidd then. That's in the late fifties,
11:31
Speaker 1: because I remember him and Robert Kidd cutting wood in
11:35
Speaker 1: the pine forest together. Yeah. And I read in the
11:40
Speaker 1: Robert's book that his brother was into the timber business,
11:44
Speaker 1: or I think that correct. I was probably through that.
11:48
Speaker 1: You know, we knew him then, and I think that's
11:52
Speaker 1: where it all started from.
11:54
Speaker 2: I think that was the last honest job that Bertie
11:56
Speaker 2: Kid ever did, cutting bit of timber. He was a
11:59
Speaker 2: dedicated crook from that time onwards, but he did involve
12:02
Speaker 2: the family, your dad and you mentioned before how he
12:05
Speaker 2: actually when he was producing the notes, he brought a
12:08
Speaker 2: pile of t because you've been in the bank, and
12:10
Speaker 2: I think he put a whole He had a bunch
12:12
Speaker 2: of real notes and he put the counterfeits within them.
12:15
Speaker 2: Do you remember that.
12:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I counted it and I picked everyone out,
12:20
Speaker 1: and he actually cracked it and just rubbed the money.
12:23
Speaker 1: Oh what do you know?
12:24
Speaker 2: Sort of So what was the difference with them?
12:28
Speaker 1: Like you said before, they had that waxy feel and
12:31
Speaker 1: they was sort of crisp, not like the original notes
12:34
Speaker 1: were sort of you could flick them like a like
12:38
Speaker 1: a I don't know, a linen toype. I feel these
12:42
Speaker 1: were crisp and you could just it was so easy
12:46
Speaker 1: to pick out I don't know, on.
12:48
Speaker 2: The field, yeah, the field, Yeah, because they think they
12:50
Speaker 2: also had a slightly they felt more like paper than
12:54
Speaker 2: that sort of as you say, cloth or sort of
12:56
Speaker 2: raggy feel that the real tendant on notes had. But
12:59
Speaker 2: I guess the thing about counterfeiting notes is they had
13:03
Speaker 2: to be perfect. You've only got to pass some one.
13:06
Speaker 2: And that was Kid's plan. And unfortunately, as I say,
13:11
Speaker 2: your dad had other ideas. And when when Kid turned
13:14
Speaker 2: up at your house the same day, but this is
13:16
Speaker 2: happening on the same day, December twenty third, and before
13:20
Speaker 2: your dad had gone and I shouted to cash in
13:22
Speaker 2: at the hotel, Kid had come to the house to
13:25
Speaker 2: pick up what he thought was going to be two
13:26
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars in fake notes, but your dad only
13:30
Speaker 2: handed him forty thousand dollars. There'd been so many rejects.
13:33
Speaker 2: He said that there was only a total of one
13:35
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand good enough to be passed, which
13:38
Speaker 2: was not true either, by the way, So that was
13:42
Speaker 2: a problem. And also your dad said, forget about taking
13:47
Speaker 2: the money to the open fields. We're going to just
13:50
Speaker 2: we're going to flood the market. We're going to go
13:52
Speaker 2: out and spend as much as we possibly can. You
13:54
Speaker 2: do what you want with yours, but we're going to
13:56
Speaker 2: keep ours. And you know, and Bertie couldn't do much
13:59
Speaker 2: about it, because you know, you guys had the loot
14:03
Speaker 2: and he wanted to get it. He could pass it.
14:06
Speaker 2: And there was quite a moment in this exchange where
14:10
Speaker 2: one of your dad's offside who's got a bit smart
14:12
Speaker 2: with Birdie Kid, and he came up with his famous line.
14:16
Speaker 2: He pulled his coat back to reveal the thirty eight
14:19
Speaker 2: in his in his shoulder holster, and he said, you're
14:22
Speaker 2: a smarty I hope you've got your affairs in order.
14:25
Speaker 2: All playing gangsters, but this was a real gangster. Your
14:29
Speaker 2: dad was not a real gangster anyway. So Kid got
14:34
Speaker 2: rid of most of his money in a flash, forty
14:36
Speaker 2: thousand dollars he did. But at eleven o'clock he got
14:39
Speaker 2: word from corrupt police that he should stop cashing because
14:43
Speaker 2: he told he was told that your dad had been nicked,
14:47
Speaker 2: and the whole plan for Kid from there was to
14:50
Speaker 2: make sure that he wasn't pinched for the same thing.
14:53
Speaker 2: So when a sergeant came over to your house and
14:57
Speaker 2: he said to your dad, who are you working with?
15:01
Speaker 2: And your dad said, I'm working on my own and
15:05
Speaker 2: the sergeant said to him, you better fucking stick to that,
15:09
Speaker 2: but you'll be thrown head first out the window. And
15:12
Speaker 2: this was coming straight from Birdie Kidd, who was not
15:14
Speaker 2: a man to be trifled with. Your dad got bail,
15:19
Speaker 2: but his dreams of riches were shattered. Ten of his
15:23
Speaker 2: friends and family were charged with possession of the forgeries
15:25
Speaker 2: or uttering them. Of course, your dad was now terrified
15:29
Speaker 2: to cash the remaining notes, each dashed in the backyard,
15:31
Speaker 2: which was about five hundred thousand dollars worth. They dug
15:34
Speaker 2: up the lawn. You didn't find.
15:36
Speaker 1: Them, No, I don't know where they were then, because
15:39
Speaker 1: they did come a note and digging everywhere.
15:42
Speaker 2: And they missed them. So what was it like for
15:45
Speaker 2: your family at this moment when this is all going on.
15:48
Speaker 1: Terrify really, because you know, we didn't know what was
15:51
Speaker 1: what were you what was happening? That was just sort
15:54
Speaker 1: of everything was thrown out of wool. I got the
15:57
Speaker 1: sack from the bank, I guess, and we were just stuck.
16:02
Speaker 2: Probably wasn't a good look a bank teller to come
16:04
Speaker 2: on well bank getting involved in forging.
16:08
Speaker 1: I'd come back after it all happened, but they said, no,
16:10
Speaker 1: you won't, that's it, and I had to sign a
16:15
Speaker 1: release thing. The bank manager come to the house.
16:19
Speaker 2: And so you were charged with being an accessory I believe, Yeah.
16:25
Speaker 1: Possession you just possession, I think, yeah.
16:28
Speaker 2: Just possession of the notes. That was enough. Yeah, right,
16:30
Speaker 2: And I guess they were expecting you to give evidence
16:32
Speaker 2: against your dad and clean this whole thing up.
16:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.
16:35
Speaker 1: Well, actually when they come that day, they had guns
16:39
Speaker 1: and one of them stuck a pushed me outside. There
16:43
Speaker 1: was two of them together, and one pushed me outside
16:45
Speaker 1: and stuck the gun, and they were sort of threatening
16:49
Speaker 1: me because you know, tell us what you know, a
16:51
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and I just says as because I'm ony,
16:55
Speaker 1: I do you know. I said, oh, look, I've got friends,
16:58
Speaker 1: and they usily walk inside. And later on I thought, well,
17:02
Speaker 1: the friend that I've got they might have thought of
17:05
Speaker 1: was rober kidd.
17:07
Speaker 2: S.
17:07
Speaker 1: Thinking now that always just been are you teenager?
17:12
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, how old you then?
17:14
Speaker 1: You were a dan?
17:15
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, being a silly teenager, because you're dealing with
17:18
Speaker 2: the big boys now, and they were corrupt police. The
17:20
Speaker 2: only one who wasn't, I believe, was a fellow called
17:21
Speaker 2: Bill Holland was who led the raid on the house.
17:25
Speaker 2: And he'd been there, was an Northern irishman, and he'd
17:27
Speaker 2: been arrested. He had not been arrested. He was the
17:30
Speaker 2: wrestling champion Victoria police. He was a big bluff character,
17:33
Speaker 2: and he'd kicked the door in and came bursting in.
17:36
Speaker 2: So he was leading it. But unfortunately he was probably
17:38
Speaker 2: the only corrupt, not corrupt one that was there. Because
17:42
Speaker 2: now the raid's over, everyone's charged. Your dad gets bail
17:47
Speaker 2: and he's trying to salvage something from the wreckage here
17:49
Speaker 2: as I understand it, and he goes to Bootie Kid
17:52
Speaker 2: and who agrees to pay your dad ten thousand dollars
17:56
Speaker 2: in real twenty dollar notes for two hundred thousand dollars
17:59
Speaker 2: of the counterfeit money. He also asked your dad also
18:03
Speaker 2: asked Kid to mind another three hundred thousand until things
18:06
Speaker 2: quietened down. But of course Bertie was always looking after
18:09
Speaker 2: number one. He also demanded that the printing press be
18:14
Speaker 2: given to him, which he moved to a stable he
18:17
Speaker 2: owned at Flemington, and later your dad came to claim
18:20
Speaker 2: it and the money, and kid took a sledgehammer and
18:24
Speaker 2: destroyed it in front of him, and then he put
18:26
Speaker 2: the wreckage in the Ara River and your dad got
18:29
Speaker 2: no money back whatsoever. Do you remember those days when your
18:33
Speaker 2: dad was trying to salvage something out of this?
18:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, remember the days, But I mean we weren't involved
18:38
Speaker 1: in that sort of thing. We didn't know until he
18:41
Speaker 1: got home. He never really talked about to us what happened.
18:46
Speaker 2: He's playing a very dangerous game at that time.
18:49
Speaker 1: The days, I say, you knew. They were sort of
18:51
Speaker 1: friends for since the late fifties, and I don't know
18:58
Speaker 1: there was up to shifty business. I think all the
19:01
Speaker 1: way bejoined there, but whether I don't know how much
19:04
Speaker 1: one trying there that they Dad walked around the house
19:09
Speaker 1: with this plastic container full of jewelry and one I
19:14
Speaker 1: was gown forty five on the top and I saw
19:17
Speaker 1: a held it because I was so young. It was massive.
19:20
Speaker 1: But apparently that was a bag that Birdie had throwed
19:24
Speaker 1: thrown over the fence, so he had to go and
19:27
Speaker 1: get it from somewhere. He'd stolen it somewhere and Dad
19:31
Speaker 1: was supposed to hell and get it.
19:33
Speaker 2: And this was prior to the tender the notes.
19:35
Speaker 1: I think it was just it must have been some
19:37
Speaker 1: sort of payment.
19:39
Speaker 2: Well, this is new news because Bertie didn't tell me
19:42
Speaker 2: that he's gone to his grave. He can't tell me now.
19:44
Speaker 2: But he called you Dad the little weasel. He didn't
19:47
Speaker 2: trust him, and you know, and that's the thing about
19:49
Speaker 2: cooks of that era. They used to do business with
19:51
Speaker 2: each other, usually because they couldn't trust other people. But
19:54
Speaker 2: your dad obviously was quite charismatic. Your dad. It eventually
19:57
Speaker 2: gets ten years for the scam, and other family members
20:01
Speaker 2: got shortened sentences. I think you've got a good behavior bond.
20:05
Speaker 1: That was another story because I've been to court. I
20:09
Speaker 1: did two courts, two appearances parents. Yeah, because at the
20:15
Speaker 1: first trial failed and I had to go back to
20:18
Speaker 1: the second court, second trial because the word was it
20:24
Speaker 1: that Robert Kidd had got to one of the jury members.
20:28
Speaker 1: That was a story. I don't know if it was true.
20:30
Speaker 1: And I had to go do a second trial and
20:35
Speaker 1: I was found guilty and we're out waiting for sentence,
20:39
Speaker 1: and real man was standing there and he said, hang
20:42
Speaker 1: on a minute, and he went and come back and
20:45
Speaker 1: he said, I've told them, if he goes, you go,
20:49
Speaker 1: That's what he said. He told them. So when I
20:53
Speaker 1: went in for sentences, they give me a five year bond.
20:55
Speaker 2: So he was saying that if you if you go.
20:58
Speaker 1: If he goes, you go. And he sold that to
21:01
Speaker 1: somebody I don't know who, some I think nettlefol was
21:07
Speaker 1: it nettlefold to judge?
21:08
Speaker 2: At this time? When your dad got his long sentence,
21:12
Speaker 2: he now decided he was going to put Kid in
21:14
Speaker 2: for this, and so he said a message to kids
21:18
Speaker 2: saying that if he didn't give back the money and
21:20
Speaker 2: reveal the whereabouts of the press, he would finger him
21:23
Speaker 2: as the mastermind of the whole thing. And Kid was
21:26
Speaker 2: told by his police retainers. Thatton had already written statements
21:29
Speaker 2: for the police that as yet unsigned. So there was
21:32
Speaker 2: this standoff going on. I wrote to Berdie Kid when
21:36
Speaker 2: he was in journey jail. Actually this is going back
21:38
Speaker 2: many years, and he actually told me some of the background.
21:40
Speaker 2: Here's some of the quote from the letter that he
21:41
Speaker 2: sent me. You know, so that Jackson knew I was
21:43
Speaker 2: the mastermind. They had all the money and knowledge the
21:46
Speaker 2: printing press. We will follow twenty four hours a day. So,
21:49
Speaker 2: being a bit brash, me and mate picked out a
21:51
Speaker 2: card as we were on the Gold Coast. It read
21:54
Speaker 2: Relaxing in the Sunshine. I got a ten dollar note
21:57
Speaker 2: with no serial number on it and put it in
21:59
Speaker 2: the card with the following, Jeff, could you please put
22:02
Speaker 2: some numbers on the next slot, as we are down
22:04
Speaker 2: to the last. When you come home, we'll drown you
22:07
Speaker 2: in champagne and choke you with cigars. So he was
22:10
Speaker 2: having a good time on these ten dollar notes and
22:12
Speaker 2: also also confident that he wouldn't be charged. This threat
22:18
Speaker 2: was enough for your dad to sign the statements and
22:20
Speaker 2: Kid was arrested and charged in a blaze of publicity.
22:23
Speaker 2: Out on bail, Kid's mischief wasn't finished. Remember I told
22:27
Speaker 2: you about Bill Holland. There was a copper that first
22:29
Speaker 2: did the raid. Holland was still pursuing Kid and going
22:33
Speaker 2: up against the corrupt coppers who were protecting him. So
22:36
Speaker 2: Kid breaks into Holland's house and planted a few hundred
22:39
Speaker 2: dollars in counterfeit notes in his refrigerator. Nice trick. Holland
22:44
Speaker 2: was never never charged. There was a warning for him
22:46
Speaker 2: to back off. He was dealing with some very powerful forces.
22:51
Speaker 2: In the end, Kid beats all the charges, the forgery,
22:55
Speaker 2: uttering and even the safe breaking at the Hampton Hotel
22:58
Speaker 2: that had financed the operation. Despite your dad's detail statements
23:02
Speaker 2: against him. It was assumed that Kid to have bought
23:05
Speaker 2: off the jury. But I actually spoke to his barrister,
23:08
Speaker 2: Brian Burke is now late now, and he denied this,
23:11
Speaker 2: and he said the key thing was the Crown had
23:14
Speaker 2: made a big mistake. They put up two handwriting experts
23:17
Speaker 2: whose evidence contradicted each other. Therefore reasonable doubt was established
23:22
Speaker 2: and that was the end of any prosecution of Bootie Kidd.
23:25
Speaker 2: He sails off into the sunset and he then spent
23:28
Speaker 2: He was the main beneficiary of your dad's money because
23:31
Speaker 2: he spent the funny money for the next two or
23:33
Speaker 2: three years. He said he paid off corrupt coppers with it,
23:36
Speaker 2: splashed all of erace courses across Australia, helped out mates
23:40
Speaker 2: and their families who were skinned. At Christmas. I had
23:43
Speaker 2: a lovely time with those tenors. He told me what
23:46
Speaker 2: was your family doing at the same time.
23:48
Speaker 1: Oh, we was struggling not to get back, get our
23:51
Speaker 1: lives back together. But I remember one I come into
23:55
Speaker 1: the city one day with some friends and I was
23:58
Speaker 1: just walking up up the street and the Robbie kids
24:01
Speaker 1: stepped out of the one foot air of the pub
24:04
Speaker 1: with a pot in hand and said, can't And I
24:08
Speaker 1: said yeah, And he said thanks for not dubbling in
24:11
Speaker 1: and just went back in the pun. He just saw
24:14
Speaker 1: me walking along the street and jumped out that I
24:19
Speaker 1: couldn't have dubed him in because I really didn't know
24:22
Speaker 1: that he was involved. It was only you know, later
24:25
Speaker 1: on there I found out he was involved.
24:28
Speaker 2: And when you visited your dad in jail and things
24:29
Speaker 2: like that.
24:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've we've visited. He went just done it more well,
24:33
Speaker 1: we went down there for a while, have visited me,
24:35
Speaker 1: Mum used to go every weekend and had them more
24:37
Speaker 1: well that it was a terrible song. Really.
24:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. And while he was in there he was writing
24:44
Speaker 2: the manuscript ten years for ten dollars. He still thought
24:48
Speaker 2: he could goney. Yeah, he had some glory out of
24:51
Speaker 2: this whole thing.
24:52
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, even like I said to you one other time,
24:55
Speaker 1: he would have reveled in all this. He would have
24:58
Speaker 1: loved loved talking to you about it. He would have
25:00
Speaker 1: been ride into it.
25:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think this story needs to be
25:04
Speaker 2: remembered because it did have an interesting twist for Australia.
25:07
Speaker 2: Because the Reserve Bank was so concerned about the quality
25:10
Speaker 2: of the money. Even though they disted in the court
25:12
Speaker 2: and said it was amitris and so forth, it was
25:14
Speaker 2: good enough to pass once and a lot of people
25:17
Speaker 2: passed it. So Nugget Coombs, there was a Reserve Bank governor,
25:21
Speaker 2: turned to science for an answer. He assembled a think
25:23
Speaker 2: tack of experts that met in Threadbow in nineteen sixty eight,
25:28
Speaker 2: and there was a guy from Kodak there who said
25:30
Speaker 2: that the new color printing presses were the biggest threat
25:34
Speaker 2: and they would continue to forge money using those and
25:38
Speaker 2: if the new banknotes could be photographed, they could also
25:41
Speaker 2: be printed and forged. So the only way to beat
25:44
Speaker 2: this was to insert optically variable devices they see through
25:48
Speaker 2: panels and holograms that sort of change colors with different
25:52
Speaker 2: light conditions and pressures. There was an expert in the
25:55
Speaker 2: team in polymer technology been working at due Lux with
25:58
Speaker 2: plastic paints, and he said that the best option would
26:02
Speaker 2: be a radical move to a plastic polymer with these
26:05
Speaker 2: OVDs inserted. Took twenty years and twenty million dollars to
26:10
Speaker 2: get there. But in ninety eighty eight the first world's
26:14
Speaker 2: first plastic labors in circulation the commemorative ten dollar note
26:18
Speaker 2: marking Australia's by centenary. So that I think we'd probably
26:22
Speaker 2: like the fact that his caper led to world first.
26:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's right, and it's history now, isn't it.
26:29
Speaker 1: And it's worth it's worth talking about.
26:32
Speaker 2: Well, I think it is. You know. It's like so
26:34
Speaker 2: many things in the in the straight world, if you like,
26:39
Speaker 2: have come from criminal scams, you know, like the banks
26:42
Speaker 2: we have today are as a result of the counter jumpers,
26:46
Speaker 2: the arm robbers who are coming in there and robbing
26:47
Speaker 2: the banks through the eighties and sticking guns in people's faces.
26:51
Speaker 2: The die bombs and the security it's all to do
26:53
Speaker 2: with that. So this is just another one. And today
26:56
Speaker 2: the Reserve Bank exports to twenty five countries. This place
27:00
Speaker 2: that they really should put your dad's head on it,
27:01
Speaker 2: don't you think? Do you think this in the corner?
27:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be good.
27:05
Speaker 2: I reckon it should be, you know. And the fact
27:07
Speaker 2: was that your family did pay heavily for your dad's folly.
27:12
Speaker 1: Well, my mother never gone over and the elder sister
27:15
Speaker 1: never has never gone over, so you know things are
27:19
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, it doesn't really affect me so much,
27:22
Speaker 1: but it has affected the others. So you could never
27:25
Speaker 1: talk about it. And DES's wife I think Des died
27:32
Speaker 1: first and then his wife. She couldn't handle talking about
27:37
Speaker 1: it or do this.
27:38
Speaker 2: And your dad didn't escape the remorse. He wrote in
27:41
Speaker 2: his manuscript that his jail sentence was small compared to
27:44
Speaker 2: the heartbreak, degradation and insecurity I brought on my family. Now,
27:49
Speaker 2: as time slowly passes, the children are growing and are
27:53
Speaker 2: drifting away to their own lives. The only thing I
27:56
Speaker 2: have left dear to me is my wife. I intend
27:58
Speaker 2: to try to make up for the unhappiness and trouble
28:01
Speaker 2: I've caused her. What did he do when he got out?
28:06
Speaker 1: No, I don't know. It never changed really, sill mine
28:09
Speaker 1: cars and all these Brian ideas. You don't never really
28:14
Speaker 1: settle down.
28:15
Speaker 2: But do you think he was sort of chastened by
28:17
Speaker 2: the jail and the whole the drama because he almost
28:19
Speaker 2: lost his marriage over it.
28:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was playing gangsters. I think I think that
28:25
Speaker 1: was his He liked that lifestyle, but anyways didn't do
28:31
Speaker 1: him any good man.
28:32
Speaker 2: No, it didn't, and he did have dreams of his
28:35
Speaker 2: book being published and being made into a movie. Did
28:39
Speaker 2: he know who's going to play him in the in
28:40
Speaker 2: the film?
28:41
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. He's only a little bloke,
28:44
Speaker 1: so I don't know. You'd have to find so.
28:46
Speaker 2: Well, maybe if Jimmy Cagney was still around, he might
28:48
Speaker 2: have gone for him. How do you feel about the
28:50
Speaker 2: whole thing now? I mean we first spoke quite a
28:54
Speaker 2: few years ago, and I sought you out, and no
28:56
Speaker 2: one had really spoken from the family, and it hasn't
28:59
Speaker 2: been easy even now recounting the story and the implications
29:03
Speaker 2: of it.
29:04
Speaker 1: Well, no, I don't mind talking about it, and because
29:08
Speaker 1: I think it's a court it's historical. It's a historical
29:13
Speaker 1: thing now and I think it's we should talk about
29:16
Speaker 1: it at sixty years ago. And it doesn't really worry
29:20
Speaker 1: me talking about it. But as I say, the others
29:22
Speaker 1: are still a bit shocked, and I sure can't handle
29:26
Speaker 1: the talking about it. But all my family know, and
29:30
Speaker 1: my nephews and all that, No, they don't worry about it.
29:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it doesn't affect part of history now. It
29:38
Speaker 2: definitely is, and I think Boodie Kidd was always fairly
29:42
Speaker 2: happy about his role in it, and when I told
29:45
Speaker 2: him that it had led to the plastic notes, he
29:48
Speaker 2: was especially chuffed about that because there weren't many things
29:51
Speaker 2: that he was going to be remembered for other than villainy.
29:54
Speaker 2: And he's just died. So there's going to be another
29:58
Speaker 2: edition of his book where I believe it's going to
30:02
Speaker 2: be revealed his role in a couple of murders.
30:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, just from me knowing him as little as I did.
30:09
Speaker 1: But it didn't seem that sort of a violent person.
30:13
Speaker 1: He seemed all right, actually, what a nice block. But
30:17
Speaker 1: you never know.
30:19
Speaker 2: He hated bullies. That was the one thing that it
30:21
Speaker 2: really really got him going. And he was very close
30:26
Speaker 2: with a guy called Michael Sayers, who was a Melbourne
30:28
Speaker 2: crook that was actually involved in the Fine Cotton scandal
30:30
Speaker 2: on the end, and he fell foul. Sayers fell foul
30:36
Speaker 2: of a guy called Roy Thurger up in Sydney, and
30:41
Speaker 2: it's always been said that Thurger had killed Sayers. And
30:45
Speaker 2: at Bertie's funeral there were some of mixed relatives and
30:50
Speaker 2: they were happy to say that they felt that Bertie
30:52
Speaker 2: had cleaned up Roy Thurger on behalf of his their
30:57
Speaker 2: late brother.
30:59
Speaker 1: So yes, well, like I said, I never never seen
31:03
Speaker 1: that way to me, but I was on the eater.
31:05
Speaker 1: But I mean, I remember one time he come to
31:08
Speaker 1: the house and I had an old car and I
31:10
Speaker 1: was fixing it up and he looked at the car
31:12
Speaker 1: and he s, ah, you're doing a good job, and
31:14
Speaker 1: I said yeah, and he said I should get you
31:16
Speaker 1: a panel business and business or something like that. And
31:21
Speaker 1: I just continued on, but apparently you give my mother
31:24
Speaker 1: money to paint the car so I wouldn't be so
31:29
Speaker 1: obvious and get picked up driving the car around.
31:32
Speaker 2: I see.
31:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's all that sort of thing.
31:35
Speaker 2: And he did talk about using the ten dollar notes
31:38
Speaker 2: to give to families who were doing it tough up
31:41
Speaker 2: in Sydney and things, and they were trying to pass them,
31:42
Speaker 2: and they had some pretty good thieves in his team
31:47
Speaker 2: who were going around passing the notes. And there was
31:50
Speaker 2: one who went to the racecourse in Sydney with a
31:52
Speaker 2: whole lot of them and tried to do some big bets.
31:55
Speaker 2: But the bag swingers already knew this, and they closed
31:58
Speaker 2: all the gates and there was that there was an
32:00
Speaker 2: announcement over the speakers anybody taking Kendle and know to
32:03
Speaker 2: be very careful. There's a scam on the course, so
32:07
Speaker 2: it blew it. But Readie did say to me that
32:10
Speaker 2: he was a bit sorry that the plastic notes finally
32:12
Speaker 2: came in because with the paper ones, they could have
32:15
Speaker 2: kept ruling it for years and years. So it was
32:16
Speaker 2: a bit sorry to stuff up a good rud for
32:18
Speaker 2: the you know, for the others. When your dad finally passed,
32:21
Speaker 2: did he talk about that at all his regrets in life?
32:24
Speaker 1: Or he wouldn't have regretted. Never, he wouldn't have regretted it.
32:28
Speaker 1: He just would have regretted getting old and feeling sick
32:33
Speaker 1: loggy when he died. But no, no, he wouldn't have regretted.
32:39
Speaker 1: He was he was, He loved all that sort of thing.
32:42
Speaker 1: He was a gangster, pretend gas.
32:44
Speaker 2: Thanks to all Right, I've seen a few of those
32:47
Speaker 2: coming go over the years. Butten Thank you Ken Mutin
32:49
Speaker 2: for coming in and sharing this story. It's a fascinating
32:51
Speaker 2: one and how the ten dollar note was forged back
32:54
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty six, and that's that's why we got
32:57
Speaker 2: the plastic notes we have today. So thanks for coming in.
32:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, no worries. Thank you for asking.
33:01
Speaker 2: Me, absolutely pleasure. That's Ken Mutton, the son of Jeffrey
33:04
Speaker 2: muttin Aster Mind behind the great ten dollar forgery back
33:08
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty six. If you've got other stories like this,
33:11
Speaker 2: they've never been told, let me know, manuscripts, what have
33:14
Speaker 2: you got out there? Come on and let me know
33:15
Speaker 2: what it is. Give me a email. Adam Shanner writer
33:18
Speaker 2: a Gmail. This has been Adam shan for a real crime.
33:21
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