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Objections brought forward: Local government elections · Drive with John Perlman

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Now, one of the issues out there, apart from the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: counting and the coalitions and all the conversation that we
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: might have about what happens next once political parties start
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: figuring out how they're going to run all these municipalities,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: metros and district councils, is the issue of objections. And
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to get a better understanding of What constitutes an objection?
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: How many are out there and how they get resolved?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: We're joined now by Maseho Shiburi, who's Deputy Chief... responsible
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: for electoral matters at the IEC, Deputy Chief Officer for
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Electoral Matters at the IEC. Mr. Shiburi, welcome, and thanks
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: very much for giving us your time. First of all,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: maybe just the factual situation. How many objections are out
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: there that need dealing with, and is there a deadline
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: for that? Good afternoon.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Good afternoon, John. In terms of the law, and this
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: is not a matter on which the Commission has a prerogative,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: In terms of the law, a party that intends to
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: object to the results, and not on every result, a
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: result that is material to the outcome of an election.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: In rough terms, a result that is material to an
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: outcome of an election is one that changes the vote
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: or one that changes the seat that the commission has allocated.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: A party must submit that objection by the cutoff time
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: of commission 1700 hours, which has passed. However, because the
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: commission is yet to release all the results, a party
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: can approach belatedly with an application for condonation, stating that,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: but for the results not being available at 1700 hours,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: an objection could not have been raised at that time.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the factual position. What kind of volume
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: are you dealing with? And when one hears objection, certainly
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: my mind, if I'm in a slightly alarmist state, would think, oh, okay,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: this is a serious problem. Of course, it may not be,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: unless I'm wrong. I mean, what is the threshold for
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: something to be an objection?
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: The threshold is that that aspect must relate to the
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: voting process. One, it must relate to the counting process.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: It must relate to activities in the vicinity of a
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: voting station that may have such a grave effect on
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the outcome of an election, and it must be material
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: to the outcome of an election. However, the Commission normally
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: places substance over form. It considers the all complaints that
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: are filed with it, consider those on their merits, and
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: if it deems that they are those that are meritorious,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: it will deal with them whether they are objections or
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: just complaints. However, the law prescribes the steps that an
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: objection must do. It must be served on the parties
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: contesting in that election. One, it must have specific information
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to enable the commission to take a decision.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Is there any law or are there regulations perhaps that
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: guide the way in which a political party lodging an
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: objection needs to conduct themselves? In other words, the way
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: they speak about it in public, the way they engage
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: with the IEC, is there best practice or is there
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: something a little bit harder and stiffer that says anybody
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: in the process of lodging an objection. For instance, you cannot, A,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: you know, try and bring the IEC into disrepute and, B,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: put out facts that may well be proven to be false,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: but you represent them as fact.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: There is no procedure, John, that regulates that. However, parties
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: and their candidates, when they sign up to contest elections,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: also guarantee a warrant that there will be they will
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: behave in a manner consistent with the electoral code of conduct.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: We've also updated that code to deal with issues of
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: disinformation in other words. stating wrong information, having no reason
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: to believe that it is true. But there is no
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: firm thing that guides the political parties. In fact, not
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: to impugn all the parties, but you find that for
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: most of the objections are just a platform to raise
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: a PR campaign against the Commission, only to find that
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: there's no substance or there's not even evidence an objection
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: that had been lawfully lodged with the Commission.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: And just finally, if there are objections still unprocessed or unresolved,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: does that delay the releasing of the final results?
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: The Commission's practice up to now has always been that
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: it endeavours to finalise all objections before it releases the result. However,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: in terms of the extant law, There is no bar
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: from the Commission releasing a result even though all objections
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: have not been finalized. But as it has done in
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: the past, the Commission is intent to resolve all objections,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: respond to all objectors before it takes the platform to
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: announce the results.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Maseho Shiburi is Deputy Chief Electoral
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Officer responsible for electoral matters at the IEC. 28 minutes
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: past five.