Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 447: Software engineer to PM. Engineering to real estate investing. From India, space career.

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MBA Wire Taps 447: Software engineer to PM. Engineering to real estate investing. From India, space career. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, September 15, 2025. Emory University's full time MBA powers growth in your career, your leadership and your future. Built on a foundation of cross functional problem solving, leadership development and career readiness, this top 20 MBA program delivers a high return on investment with top five career outcomes. Step into a global network that's connected by design and supportive by nature. Explore the Emory MBA at Emory Biz ClearAdmit. That's Emry Biz ClearAdmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, what's going on?
• 0:59
  Speaker B: Everything's good. Thank you, Graham.
• 1:01
  Speaker A: So I'm just going to say in case listeners can hear, they're doing some work in the building that I record in and you know, apologize for any background noise. But I have a nice microphone. Hopefully our engineer Dennis can work some magic. He's probably going to kill me, but. But anyway, what's going on in the NBA admissions world? We're still in the throes of deadlines and all kinds of, you know, last week was there were a number of deadlines. Are there any coming up?
• 1:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, still for another month at least, we're going to see lots of deadlines. We've only touched the surface really at this point. This upcoming week we've got Booth, Columbia, McCombs. No, sorry, Stern booth in Seattle and Johnson. I was reading off the wrong list, but yeah, so it's a bit of a quieter week this week, quite honestly. But yeah, we're in the throes of application deadlines. There's some interview invites coming out. You know, if you applied early for Tuck. We're seeing some reports there and we'll start to get more flow of interview invites with early action. Round one deadlines that were a couple of weeks ago, they'll start coming out in the next couple of weeks. So round one is well and truly underway.
• 2:11
  Speaker A: I predict some Yale interview invitations will come soon. That's my prediction for some of their applicants, so we'll see there. They're often one of the first schools to start getting Those out. When's MIT's deadline for round one?
• 2:25
  Speaker B: A little while yet. For MIT?
• 2:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. They always camp out a little bit after everybody else, so. All right, cool. And, and I gotta ask you, have you been playing any more with S. Clear Admit the bot. I mean, you know, there's been, we saw a big uptick in usage in the last week, so people are definitely using it a lot.
• 2:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, We've actually started promoting it a little bit, which we hadn't done to this date for a couple of reasons that nobody really needs to know about. But rather than. Well, obviously we talked about it on this show. So that is promotion. But we've been a bit more deliberate and I think we're seeing an uptick now because of those promotions. But also we're hitting the season now. We've got the additional feature that people can upload, like a draft essay or their resume, get feedback. You know, an obvious question now is, you know, if you do get an interview invite at Tuck, you could upload your resume and say, you know, please give me four potential questions that top might ask me and help me frame the answers. So, yeah, we're starting to see some really interesting use of the bot in that way. And yeah, the. The traffic on the bot certainly has picked up.
• 3:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, and it makes sense. I mean, I think it's such a great tool. So nice to see people using it. Yeah. And we didn't go all out on promotion because we really wanted to. I mean, this is kind of the way we do everything around here is we want it to be really great. And I think, you know, it's just. It's become such a terrific tool with all the stuff that we've been feeding into it. And so, yeah, really, really good. Obviously, if you're listening to this show, please help spread the word about the show. We could definitely use more reviews. It's been a little while since we got a review over on Apple. Or obviously you can rate the show on Spotify or wherever you're listening. Please give us a rating and tell your friends who are applying to business school. On the events front, we've got our second webinar in the September series coming up. It's our kind of Inside the MBA series where we talk all things kind of application. And it's sort of for people playing round two, but also those who've just applied in round one because we touch on interview processes and what to expect there. I actually love this series because my job as MC is I have to comb through each school's application in its entirety and look for, like weird questions or just odd kind of aspects of their application process. And then I kind of probe the school on like, why do you do, you know, why do you do this? Or if I'm the applicant, you know, what should I be? Why are you asking this? And, well, how might I, you know, approach it? So it's a lot of fun. And this week on Wednesday at noon Eastern, I'm going to sit down with admissions directors from Chicago Bo, Columbia Business School, Texas McCombs, Toronto Rotman and Yale SOM. So that'll be a good group and yeah, looking forward to it.
• 5:05
  Speaker B: No, very good. And you had the first one last week, Graham, but we don't know how that went, do we? Because we have to record this show a little bit earlier in the week.
• 5:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, the other thing is to sign up for those events. It's just bit lyca inside mba, all one word, all lowercase. So, yeah, come out and join us there. And also on September 23rd at noon Eastern, that's a Tuesday, you and I are going to do another YouTube live stream. And we've been instructed to do some fun stuff in that live stream, like play with the bot, with our, with our audience. And yeah, we'll, you know, take your questions. It should be a lot of fun. Everyone's in the midst of applying and always, I mean, last time we did one of these a couple weeks ago, there were a ton of questions, so should be fun. The only way that you can find out about that is to just join our YouTube channel. So go to bit ly ca YouTube live and you can subscribe to our YouTube channel there and you'll, you know, get notified when we come on air. But again, It's Tuesday the 23rd at noon Eastern, so I'm looking forward to that. Alex.
• 6:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I really enjoyed the last one. Obviously we didn't get a huge, huge turnout, but that's the beauty of it, right? We, we actually from the smaller group, we got some really interesting questions. So I think if it was a really large, large group, that, that, that dynamic might be lost a little bit. But, but yeah, no, super interesting. And live streaming is new for us, so I think we're pretty hip, quite frankly.
• 6:32
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we're. Yeah. I mean, live streaming's probably been around for 10 years now or something, but we're finally jumping on the bandwagon. But you know, one thing that was interesting about that is it came out in those questions that a number of schools are asking candidates. Did you use AI as you were working on your application? And you know, yes or no and then typically, if so, please let us know in what capacity. So that was kind of an interesting con had. And you know, I think obviously we talked a lot in the, in the, in the live stream about AI being like a bookend on your application process. You know, you can use the beginning to brainstorm and at the end of Polish.
• 7:05
  Speaker B: Right.
• 7:05
  Speaker A: So, perfect. Anyway, a lot of fun, and we'll do another one of those coming up. Speaking of polish, we just ran an admissions tip on the website that is called Essay Polishing. And it's just a short tip that goes through a few different things to keep in mind as you're kind of putting the finishing touches on your application and in particular, the essay. And, you know, it talks about keeping the tone professional. You know, even though schools ask you to bear your soul, be authentic, but you also, you know, you're applying to graduate school and there is a certain degree of formality that's sort of expected. We talk about emphasizing action when you're telling stories. You know, really emphasize the role you played and the actions you took and then finally avoiding repetition across the portfolio of materials that you're presenting to anyone given school. And in that tip, we have a link to all the videos that you and I recorded as part of the Admissions Academy, which is a video series that we've made available to the public. There are 25 videos in the series in total. Five of them are only about essays. And each of those videos is what, Alex? Less than 10 minutes long. So they're. They're great primers on all different types of essays and issues around essays.
• 8:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, but I think we need to edit that admissions tip, Graham.
• 8:20
  Speaker A: Why?
• 8:20
  Speaker B: Well, we need to put.
• 8:21
  Speaker A: Oh, to add. To add in something about using AI.
• 8:24
  Speaker B: As your policy and, you know, a link to the Ask Clear Admit bot.
• 8:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point, too, because.
• 8:30
  Speaker B: You know, as you said, the bot is really good for brainstorming at the beginning of the application process and fine tuning at the end. And that's exactly what polishing the essay is all about. So I think that's an edit. Will we. We should probably make. Graham, if we're really on. On with our keeping our content up to date.
• 8:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. All right, well, let's do it. We'll talk to Lauren about that. Let's see, other news. We did an Adcom Q&A again. This is our ongoing series. Every fall, we catch up with the admissions directors at all the leading schools. This week we caught up with Francesco Farnay. He is a new admissions director over at IMD Business School in Lausanne, Switzerland. And I thought that was kind of interesting. We asked always in these interviews we. The application process and specifically say, tell us what happens after the applicants click submit. So, like, what's the. You know, what goes on behind the scenes? And, you know, Francesco had some really interesting Thoughts to share, he said that click is already a moment of celebration in our office, as our recruitment and admissions team typically knows each individual even before the deadline arrives. From an operational standpoint, as soon as we receive the official application, the first step is to just check that all the required documents have been received, including recommendation form, gmat, gre, score, score, et cetera. The admissions committee then assesses each application holistically to see if the candidate meets our requirements, aligns with IMD's values and standards, and shows clear potential to benefit from and contribute to our program. Candidates who meet this initial evaluation are invited to our signature assessment day and interview whenever possible. We encourage applicants to join us on campus, where they participate in a mix of individual and team exercises and get a feel for our campus and meet current students the following day. We offer a more informal opportunity to explore Lausanne and the surrounding lakeside region along with alumni and members of our team. For those unable to attend in person, we offer a comprehensive virtual alternative that maintains the same rigor and engagement after the assessment applications move to our finance committee for scholarship review. This allows us to communicate both admission and scholarship decisions together, providing successful candidates with a complete and transparent offer. So I, you know, I know that was a long thing to read from Francesco, but I thought it was interesting just to get a kind of peek, you know, at how their process works and this sort of assessment day that they do, which is very unusual in the application process. And. And also this idea that when someone applies and click submit, that they're celebrating that because they probably already know the person because they've met them as a part of their recruiting process, you know, going, you know, leading up to that. So I thought that was an interesting, you know, peek into their process.
• 11:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think it's really interest. I guess it reminds me a little bit of Cambridge in terms of they have their interview days on campus. So this idea that they're drawing their candidates all to campus in a collective rather than, you know, maybe like a US school invites candidates for interviews, but that might be over a whole month in their calendars. So they're not designed to get folks on campus all together on specific days. And there's got to be real value if you can pull that off for the school, for networking and so on and so forth. So I really, I like the concept. And obviously they know it works because obviously, I assume that the majority of applicants are able to show up that are under consideration. So. Yeah, so, yeah, very, very smart.
• 12:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So we'll, you know, obviously continue there's still a few more of these ADCOM Q and A's to come. Lauren on our team says she's still got some that she's putting together. So. Yeah, that'll. We, we'll keep everyone posted on those. If you have any questions, Marshall. Yeah, Marshall may be forthcoming. That's right, yeah. So if you have any questions for Alex or me, you can Write to info Clear admit.com and use the subject line Wiretaps. Otherwise, Alex, I say we start talking about this week's candidates that you picked.
• 12:40
  Speaker B: Let's get going.
• 12:41
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. So our first candidate this week has six schools on the target list. And those schools are Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Kellogg, Stanford and Wharton, otherwise known as the M7 without Booth. For some reason, this person wants to start school in the fall of 26. They are currently a software engineer at Microsoft and they're looking to use the MBA to pivot out of that role into a product manager. And so they're, you know, targeting tech companies, so they want to stay in that domain. But they'd love to work at Amazon, Apple, Meta Alphabet, Microsoft's on the list as well. X Uber, you know, they have a whole list here. So looking at, you know, basically make that common transition from engineer to product manager. Their GMAT score is a 755. I looked this up on the old test. That would be like a 770 or a 780. So a very strong test score. Their GPA is a 3.54. They have five years of work experience. They're located in California and they're interested in landing in either California, New York, Seattle or Chicago after business school. They did mention that they have a concern, which is that they haven't had a promotion that's led to like a role or title change. They were promoted internally in terms of like, it sounds like salary and things like that, but in terms of like getting a new title or new team or whatever, none of that's happened. They also think that their GPA is slightly below average at 3.54. And they mentioned that it's really due to a low first semester GPA and that they will address that in the optional essay. They're hoping to lean on their impact at work. Strong recommendations from current and past supervisors and then a strong GMAT score to kind of rise to the top here in the application process. Alex, what do you make of this candidacy?
• 14:35
  Speaker B: I think if they do have that necessary impact at work and it gets backed up with strong recommendations and so forth. I'd be less worried about the fact that they've not had a promotion in as much as a different title change. I'd also be curious how that's related to their peers that have effectively been at Microsoft in that software engineering role over a period of time. So if they're the only one that hasn't had a promotion, then that would be challenging. But if it's more standard in their industry and in their company, the track that they've been on and they can back it up with the stories that show their impact and that's backed up with the recommendations, I wouldn't worry about that particular concern at all. I also wouldn't really worry so much about that first semester issue. I mean, yeah, fine, address it very succinctly and briefly in the. Well, that's redundant. Very succinctly in the optional essay. But a 755 GMAT is a wowzer type of score, right? And assuming the 3.5, whatever was an engineering degree and so forth, I think that side of it is going to be fine. The only slight question I have, unfortunately didn't respond to my query, is what do they do outside of work? If this is someone that's well balanced, is involved in their communities somehow, or has different passions and interests outside of software engineering and that adds that layer to their overall candidacy, I've got to imagine then that this is a super strong candidate, Graham. I mean, you know, that's the piece of the puzzle that we just don't know. Don't know about. But other than that, again, if they've got the impact at work backed up by the wrecks with that super gmat, I think they should be in very good shape.
• 16:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. So my, so yeah, I like you, I'm not so worried about the promote lack of a formal promotion and I'm not worried about the GPA much either because the test score is just so high. So I, but what I worry about, like you're saying it's like what's, what else makes this person tick, right? Because right now, you know, they're obviously successful in their career and their career goals make a ton of sense. They have good numbers. No one's going to worry about them, you know, failing the MBA curriculum. But what I'm wondering is like what else are they bringing to these programs? And I say that because they're looking at some of the very best business schools on the planet. And those business schools need people to take on roles in clubs and, and you know, activities and stuff and I just, you know, they, they didn' as you say, they haven't answered you, you asked them this. But yeah, it's just that's the one kind of wrinkle that I think, you know, could be the difference maker for. You know, is this person Harvard, Stanford bound or maybe to another, you know, slightly lower ranking school? We'll find out. But that, that's the one thing that's kind of jumping out at me is like what, what else makes this person.
• 17:39
  Speaker B: Interesting in contrast to the last person that we're going to focus on today, Graham, because they, they ran a load of esports stuff that I know you're going to quiver at, but there we go.
• 17:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, so in any event, I think, yeah, that's the wild card with this candidate is like what else do they bring to the table? I, you know, I presume they do some stuff outside of work and hopefully they can elaborate on that and show that they'll be an active member of the NBA community. But otherwise, yeah, they have some of the key numbers and things that you would need to, to be in the game here. So I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week is an interesting one. They have six schools on their target list and those schools are Berkeley, Columbia, Harvard, Kellogg, UCLA and Wharton. And they also want to start in the fall of 26. This person though started out their career as like an engineering and, and kind of professional sales but then basically moved to the US and became a real estate investor. So they've kind of become this sort of entrepreneur entrepreneur and they have a 740 on the GMAT and a 3.3 undergraduate GPA. They've got four years of work experience. They're currently located in the US they originally from, we can't reveal where because they didn't say but it's somewhere in Latin America and you know, they're applying to all these schools in the first round. So they're in the midst of you know, getting these apps in, I'm guessing. And they mentioned this is really interesting. They say, you know, they start out in engineering and kind of of sales and, and did really well there but then they moved to the US Pivot into real estate and it says built my own investment company from the ground up. Have achieved a great roi, raised private capital and made numerous investments in a short period. In the optional essay I will address my 3.3 GPA which I guess they're a little worried about because it's a bit lower. And they also say that outside of the work, they're actively involved in extracurriculars. They're on the border three different student clubs when they were back at university and today they're part of several kind of real estate communities. They have their real estate license, which they work to get in their spare time and they do, you know, fitness training. What do they say? Fitness training, your favorite pickleball, tennis, golf and content creation to share their journey in real estate and entrepreneurship. So Alex, what do you make of this? I know you had a, you know, little bit of dialogue with this candidate on the site, but. Yeah, what's your take on this candidacy?
• 20:04
  Speaker B: I mean, I think it's quite extraordinary, right? They, they, they're an engineer or at least I'd assume that was their, their under undergraduate and you know, engineering, professional sales. They then move country and completely moved industry and you know, they effectively become an entrepreneur in the real estate domain and they raise money, done some really interesting things, what one would argue. So on the surface this again looks like a really interesting candidate. Got a super GMAT. And yeah, their GPA 3.3, that's probably a translation, I presume, from. From where they're from. So, so if they need to explain that, that's fine, but the, the GMAT is, is certainly going to be very helpful in that regard. I think they're going to do it. Need to do a really good job of explaining that pivot because it is again, you're pivoting geography and industry and pivoting into becoming an entrepreneur. So as long as they can make a really good case for that and then the case for the mba, which again, it makes a lot of sense to me, but they're going to have to sort of carry on that sort of explanation and so on and so forth. They do have some activities outside of work, although I think more recently it seems to be quite related to their field of interest, real estate and so forth. But again, some sporting activity on top of that. So I would imagine, I mean they've applied in the first round so they'll see where the chips land and if they're getting interview invites, that's obviously a very positive signal. If they're not, then they can start readjusting and start looking around too. But from everything that I understand, Graham, there's a lot of good ingredient here.
• 21:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. There's only two kind of things I worry about. So like you, I'm not as concerned about the 3.3 because they're from somewhere in Latin America and like you say, they probably translated that degree and who knows, maybe they were like towards the top of their class. There's far less grade inflation outside of the US so. And the 740 on the GMAT helps, you know, kind of balance that. Anyway, the things that I worry about are twofold. One, their extracurriculars are, as you say, a lot of them are related to their kind of work. And then the ones that aren't are kind of these individual sports. They talk about fitness training, they talk about, you know, kind of tennis, golf. I mean you play with other people, but they're kind of, you know, in some regards they're not exactly team sports. Right.
• 22:38
  Speaker B: So they're not cricket though. Gray.
• 22:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I don't know. So I think.
• 22:45
  Speaker B: No, I should, I should say baseball. Sorry, I had my wires crossed.
• 22:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, baseball is a team sport, but it's, you know, but I think. Yeah, I just wonder to what extent are they kind of giving back in any way with any of their outside activities? So that's just a minor thing that I would kind of.
• 23:00
  Speaker B: Which they may well be in the real estate domain. Right. Maybe they're running local meetings, they're running some stuff. They're a content creator in that space, contributing what they're learning and so forth. So I think there could possibly be real evidence of that. My concern on that regard is, you know, they're all work and their play is also all work related. Right. Sort of side. Their extracurriculars are lot targeted on their own professional development.
• 23:28
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:29
  Speaker B: So, yeah.
• 23:30
  Speaker A: So just a question of, you know, just thinking through that and how they presented that stuff in round one if they're already applied. The only other thing that you and I talked about before we came on air is the list of schools. You know, so they have some schools on their list like, you know, Wharton, Columbia, Berkeley that are. And even UCLA that are kind of known for real estate. Because this person wants to go and work as an associate like a US Real estate or really a global real estate investment corporation. And so those programs that are on the list make a ton of sense. But there's some other schools that we know are quite strong in this domain, namely nyu, Stern, mit, Sloan and Cornell that come up a lot when you, when you think about real estate. And none of those schools are on their list. And so what I would encourage them to do is if for some reason things don't go as planned in round one, I would consider, you know, those schools as well. Again, nyu, MIT and Cornell. They had some schools on their say, Kellogg and Harvard that are less associated with this domain, but obviously very good schools. So you can't really quibble with them applying to those programs. But I just, you know, I'm thinking through, like, which programs are really uniquely suited to get them where they want to go in their career. And so those are the ones that came to mind.
• 24:40
  Speaker B: So. So a couple of points on that one. They could in theory apply to Sloan. Right. Because as we highlighted a little bit earlier, their round one deadline is typically later in the cycle, probably towards the end of September, if memory serves. The second is this is a really good use case for using either Ask, Clear, Admit or your favorite AI bot, because you just put in, you know, here's my resume. I'm targeting top, you know, MBA programs and then put in your goals. Can you list out, you know, half a dozen programs I should be thinking about? Right, so. So, you know, this really ensures that the candidate then isn't missing out on an opportunity. Right?
• 25:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think I just was looking as you're talking September 29, I think, is that Sloan deadline? So it's really at the end of September. So. Yeah, and you're absolutely right. The, you know, the, the. Why I can't speak for ChatGPT, but I know our bot, when you ask it, it's quite adept at telling you, hey, you know, these schools are noted for their placements in this domain and that's because it's gobbled up so much content that we've produced over the years about real estate, about, you know, figures, things like that. So, yeah, in any event, I want to wish this person the best of luck. I think they have an interesting profile and yeah, just a question of, you know, making sure they do a good job of explaining outside activities and how they'll be contributing in the business school environment and then, yeah, see where the chips fall. Hopefully they'll keep us posted on how it goes in round one.
• 26:08
  Speaker B: Absolutely.
• 26:09
  Speaker A: All right, let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three, our final candidate for this week has five schools on the target list. And those schools are INSEAD and LBs as well as MIT, Kellogg and Wharton. This person, they listed 2027 as their planned start year. I don't know if they mean that or if they're, you know, going to be applying this cycle or not, but currently they're working for a government space agency in India. They're hoping to pivot into consulting. They actually specified they'd like to do space consulting. And at first I thought whoa, I don't, you know, what does that mean? Even then I started thinking about it, I'm like, wow, you know, all these companies with low level, you know, satellites and, and there is a lot happening, you know, up above our little planet. And so I guess there's, there's work there. And they mentioned tons of the, you know, all the leading consulting firms they would be open to working for like Carney and Bain and Deloitte and McKinsey, et cetera. This candidate has a 755 on the GMAT which again you might recall our first candidate this week had a similar score like a 770, 780 on the old scale. They had an 8.67 GPA in India. That's out of 10 and is quite good for India. That's, you know, again, limited grade inflation. They have four years of work experience. They'd love to land in either Europe or the US after business school. And you know, they mentioned that they've been working for a couple years at the space agency. So I actually think that they do intend to, to apply to start in 27 because they say they've been working there a couple years and they indicate they're gonna have four by the time they start. So they mentioned they went to, they studied electronics and communication engineering at a well known publicly funded college in India and then they go on from there to list a ton of stuff that they've been involved in. I mean not only at work but they on the side. They lead a chapter of a well known NGO, have 100 plus volunteers working under them. They are also really active with their undergraduate university. They're on the kind of alumni association and they continued even, you know, even when they were in school. They have this track record of tons of involvement, whether that's publishing research papers, organizing things. They mentioned that they were the head organizer of the first ever esports fest at their university which was held during COVID and involved organizing various events and you know, kind of getting people together to do these kind of online gaming. They also were a part of the university cricket and football teams and they played country level esports for one year during COVID and you know, they graduated school, it sounds like 20 towards the top of their class and do a lot of other outside activities. I could go on. They gave us a really long kind of description in their apply wire post. So Alex. Yeah. What do you make of this candidate?
• 29:02
  Speaker B: Again, I think this is a super candidate. They're going to Fall into that overrepresented population, if we're going to be a bit crude about that. So really, when they do apply, just make sure they're applying in round one. So whether that's this season, next season, whenever it is. So round one is going to be key. They're an engineer. I love the, you know, the space angle. You know, it is the next frontier, as it were. So, you know, there's obviously a lot of innovation in, in, in that world.
• 29:35
  Speaker A: I thought it was the final frontier.
• 29:37
  Speaker B: Yeah, all right. That was in the 1970s. It's the next frontier in the, in the 2025, I suppose. Oh, whatever, whatever. Anyway, you get the point, right? This spaced off is super interesting. Interesting, right. Especially with satellite stuff and going to Mars and various other things in between. And India looks like its space program has really sort of been elevated over the last few years. I don't really recollect, but I do believe they recently did something with the moon and so forth, which was a big step forward for them. So, you know, to me that professionally they sound really good. Academically, they're superb. And they also have that third piece of the puzzle. Right. Really active outside of work. You know, esports is huge, so they're playing in that domain too. But they also are a leader at an NGO. They talk about having 100 folks under them doing whatever good work that NGO does. So I just think there's a lot to like here. Graham. Quite honestly, the key for them will be target that first round.
• 30:50
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I think, you know, you're right, this is going to be an over if we want to stereotype overrepresented Indian, you know, engineering degree. So, yeah, applying early. The thing that's nice though is, you know, they have really great numbers, so their test score is going to stand out. And I would argue we don't see people working in space agencies very often. Yeah, and you were right. The Indian space program, you are a font of knowledge, Alex, because the Indian space program, they went to the moon back in 23 and they soft landed. I just was looking at this and yeah, they, they soft landed on the south pole of the moon in August of 23, so. So it's an active space program. And I think the other thing that's kind of fascinating with this candidate is they have a ton of activities there, you know, and there's a range, you know, from playing sports back at university to working with this ngo. So I like that. You and I did have a bit of a debate before we came on air about the value of esports, I put it in the kind of. Oh, it's kind of geeky and it's lame to be sitting at a computer in your house when you should be social and others. But you pointed out. Well, I'll let you describe your view on esports because you had a very different point of view.
• 31:56
  Speaker B: I. I mean, I. My view is just from the perspective that I don't really understand that world, but I just find it fascinating that there's. There's more, you know, dollars associated to esports now than there are to movie development and so on and so forth. So it is a huge, huge, you know, area or whatever you want to call it. And yeah, I just think it's absolutely fantastic. And the nice thing about this person is, you know, they clearly have the strong academics, they clearly have really interesting work experience, but their outside activities also cover a breadth of different types of activities. So you've got the geeky esports stuff. Right. Which I completely admire. And, you know, geeks end up ruling the world anyway, so that's good. But you've also got the NGO stuff, so you think, well, that's great. They'd love to contribute and so on and so forth. So. So checks that box. But they were also a. A regular sports athlete. Right. So, you know, whether it was cricket or. I think they mentioned a couple of others, you know, captain of the team, etc. Etc. So there's just so much to like here. I really hope that they deliver on the first round. And this is a potential star.
• 33:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think the thing you said that convinced me a little bit about esports earlier was that it wasn't just that they're playing esports, but they actually organized this entire festival. And so there's more of a leadership element there and, you know, as you say, balanced with other kind of in the real world activities too. So they're not just sitting on their.
• 33:33
  Speaker B: But they did play at the country level. Right, too. So they organized an esports event and they participated. I. I don't have the. The thing right in front of me, but the E2K or some acronym.
• 33:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know.
• 33:47
  Speaker B: Which is, I guess some, you know, like, dungeons and it's about. Anyway, you get the idea.
• 33:53
  Speaker A: Well, I'm gonna, you know, I. I will challenge this person to a game of Pac man whenever they would like. That's about my. But anyway. No, but I think you're right. I mean, they have, you know, they have a couple of years before applying and so, yeah, they're well, I guess technically a year before applying, so use the year wisely. What's great is they already have the numbers lined up. They just need to focus on doing well at work and in site activities. So. Yeah, I think. Yeah, what do we could say? Sky's the limit for this person working in the space sector? No, but in all seriousness, I think they have a competitive candidacy and just need to get their ducks in a row and, as you say, apply in the first round. Alex, thanks for picking out these candidates. It's been a great conversation as always with you this week. Let's hang out next week and talk about some more applicants.
• 34:36
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care of there.