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Rediscovering the Harmony of Worship · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  Relish pleasing or zestful flavor a quantity
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  just sufficient to flavor to be pleased or
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  gratified by enjoy we are hoping that what
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  we bring to your table today might add some spice
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  to your life ladies and
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  gentlemen welcome back to another episode of relish i am
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  rowan miller and here with don patterson as always don
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  how are you doing doing good doing good yeah had my
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  coffee and everything yeah it's doing good we're
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  doing good it is we're in a new studio yeah
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  i don't know place to film broke that out to people
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  that we're in new studio and we have these fancy stools that
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  swivel yeah they have padding on them
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  yeah you know and we've got new lighting the
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  warm lighting the cool lighting and yeah
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  we just got it all yeah yeah we're uptown now yeah
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  as if we weren't uptown before we're uptown now
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  all right well we have
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  we're back to the normal format with questions and answers here so we'll do
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  that i'll brace myself for the questions yeah so a couple times ago we asked
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  prazer hymn music which one so yes you have a favorite hymn or and a favorite.
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  Pray song and why a favorite my
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  two favorite hymns would be how great the art yeah and
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  when peace like a river river i like those two now saying that that also exposes
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  the other piece hymns or worship songs because those would be at the last part
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  of the hymn area era i mean both those songs come out of the 1930s and 40s, 50s.
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  So they're fairly new for a hymn.
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  That being the worship song, the one that we do on Sunday morning,
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  the one that talks about God being so good to us. Goodness of God, yeah.
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  Yeah. Yeah. You can just. Goodness of God.
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  Read the lyrics and like just use that as a devotion even.
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  That's right. You could. Yeah. I agree. Cool.
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  How long, like the hymn era, when did they start then?
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  Well, I actually, some of our earliest hymns, the earliest hymn we've got is
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  probably Philippians chapter two. That is considered a hymn.
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  Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus.
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  It's Philippians 2, verses 5-11. Who, being the very nature God,
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  did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing.
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  Taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness,
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  and being found in the appearance as a man, he humbled himself,
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  and became obedient to death, even death on the cross.
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  Therefore God exalted him to the highest place, and gave him the place that
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  is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
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  in heaven and on earth, and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus
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  Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
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  And the reason that's considered a hymn is because it carries so much theology in one spot.
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  It is obviously poetic, even in the Greek language.
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  And we know that it was said and sung among the early church.
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  And that's part of the reason why,
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  Paul maybe wrote it down so that everybody had it. And so we've considered that
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  as one of the first hymns of the church.
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  And that hymn era probably went up to the 1950s.
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  And when you ask the question, my mind went, and it seems to be that we've created
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  a polarity between the hymns on one side and the worship songs on the other,
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  which would be everything post 2000.
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  Okay. But we're missing an era in there that I find fascinating and important.
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  And those are the scripture songs that came out of the 70s, 80s,
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  90s, like the Keith Green stuff.
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  And the second chapter of Acts, anybody remember them? Okay.
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  Maybe not. But they had some really good songs too.
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  And what I find interesting is in the worship wars thing, I think that was the,
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  the, the, where the question came out originally is the fact that we've polarized.
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  You either go one or you go the other.
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  And often they've dropped that middle part altogether.
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  Where I, where I grew up and kind of like bridged the gap.
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  Yeah. Yeah. So like you, you hear the songs, the newest songs out by Christian
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  artists and you sort of embrace them because they're speaking out of your generation.
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  Well, those songs spoke out of in my generation.
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  And it's sort of hard to see them gone. So when we talk about worship wars,
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  I want that bunch included too.
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  And so I see a spectrum of things that we maybe could include in worship.
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  Yeah, the hymns, particularly the gospel hymns,
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  and then the scripture songs that came out of the 70s through 2000 or so,
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  and then what's modern and popular now, I think they all have a place.
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  My big question is, is anybody watching the theology behind them?
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  And I think every pastor should be given, and maybe I'm speaking because that's what I want.
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  Sometimes the pastor ought to
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  be able to say, I don't think we're going to sing that song at our church.
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  Yeah. Because maybe it's missing something that's part of the theology of the congregation.
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  And maybe we should be able to do that once in a while.
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  But the worship wars thing, I think, well, it's got it now out of hand for one thing.
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  And the second thing is it's not including all music.
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  We need to include all music in our worship. And maybe sometimes just have a
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  program, a Sunday morning of singing.
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  Praise. Yeah. Praise is missing from the church.
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  We need to make that, and often we do that with music, make praise one of the
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  cornerstones of who we are as a people of God.
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  All right. Because he likes that. He likes our praise. God likes our praise.
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  I know some people like singing praise music and worship music more than they
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  like listening to a hymn or a sermon. A sermon.
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  Yeah. I've heard that a couple times. Yeah. And maybe it's just particularly my sermon.
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  But I've heard that a couple times. Let's sing another song and you can cut back five minutes.
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  Okay. Quit talking, Don. Yeah. That was just about enough of you. Mm-hmm. Okay.
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  That's all right. That's all right. Just so that the morning service draws us
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  closer to Jesus. That's the bottom line. Mm-hmm.
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  Yeah. Has there ever been a time where you kind of didn't listen to God or what
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  he kind of put on your mind and how'd that go?
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  And like, was there, how about a time when you did listen to God?
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  Well, okay. I'll take one example. I started a business several years ago.
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  A bus business and I felt like it was a word given to me to do.
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  And, and, and so I, I prayed about it and yeah, that seems right.
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  So I, I asked the Lord specifically, okay, there, I had asked a couple of people,
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  what's the most difficult thing to get for this business to happen? It was a bus business.
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  And they said the insurance, if you can get the insurance, then yeah,
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  the rest of it falls into place.
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  So I prayed about it and I couldn't get insurance. I mean, seriously,
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  couldn't get insurance.
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  I tried several different places and couldn't get insurance.
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  So I was talking to a friend of mine and we were having a conversation.
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  All of a sudden, the Lord, just like he spoke to.
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  Well, it was across the street. And there was an insurance place across the street.
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  And so I walked in and said, hey, I'm thinking about a bus and I need insurance.
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  Sure, we can take care of that.
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  So I went and got my insurance. And what is interesting is then I got the insurance,
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  the bank account, the LLC, and the phone number all in the same morning. Okay.
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  I mean, it just went bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And so all those things together,
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  all those arrangements came together. We went down and bought our first bus within a week.
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  And yeah, it was as if God was leading all that.
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  And our second bus, we were actually led to a guy in Rochester,
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  Minnesota, wonderful Christian man.
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  And we had part of the afternoon was wonderful, just sharing our testimonies
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  with each other. Yeah. And he had his deep faith.
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  And so we brought that bus and brought it home. The point that got a little
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  squirrely is, and I checked with the guy who gave me the word to start with, I bought a second bus.
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  And so all of a sudden things were going well and then COVID happened and of
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  course killed the whole thing.
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  And we lost quite a bit of money. So I asked the person who sort of brought
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  that word to us to start with, so what went wrong?
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  And he said, well, the vision was for you to have one bus and you bought two.
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  Interesting. So when you added second bus, that didn't line up with that word.
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  So we can always think we know what's best, but God knows best. Yeah. Yeah.
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  So God helped us out of that situation. It's not like we were abandoned in the midst of it.
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  Yeah. But it was a disciplinary action, I guess I'd say.
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  Yeah. That kind of had, you listened to him and you kind of.
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  Yeah. And I did my own thing too. Yeah.
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  And yeah, that one illustration sort of covered both those. Yeah.
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  But I found that God is active in our lives if we let him be.
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  I mean, we sort of put the cap on God.
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  And I think maybe we need to limit how much we put the cap on God and what he's
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  willing to do in our lives.
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  Because he'll do more than we can ask or imagine. I think that's Ephesians chapter three.
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  He will. He'll do more than we can ask or imagine. Let's double check it.
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  But I think it's Ephesians chapter three.
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  There we go. Yeah. I pray that you being rooted and established in love may
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  have the power together with all the saints to grasp how wide,
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  how long, how high, how deep is the love of Christ.
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  And to know this love that surpasses all knowledge that you may be filled with the fullness of God.
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  Now to him who's able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine,
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  according to the power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church
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  and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever and ever. Amen.
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  Yeah, he is. He's able to do a lot more. And we really are limiting God by doing it ourselves.
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  Yeah. Give it to him. He's good. He's good. Yeah.
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  So if you're in the midst of that endeavor and God's put you in that endeavor, give it to God.
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  Ask him more often. In your personal time, ask God what's next.
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  He'll bring it to you. It's sort of like when I was in that booth and I really
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  thought the best thing was done.
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  You know, I'd done everything I could do. Yeah.
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  And then God spoke and it was.
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  Nice. All right.
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  Come back to that question. Come back to it. Whoa. Okay.
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  You know, we forgot one thing in here. Our new studio doesn't have clock. Oh, yeah.
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  I'm keeping an eye on it. Really be long. what
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  are some words of wisdom you received that impacted you
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  at some point in your life well probably the the
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  one that came to my mind first was the words of my pastor i'd been approached
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  several times about the possibility of me becoming a pastor and i didn't know
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  yeah i was young yeah you know young like you yeah no i was still older than
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  you and and i was wondering okay,
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  I'm in college, do I really want to consider this change?
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  Because it would be a change for my major, which was going to be speech and
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  drama and teaching, and I was going to farm in the summer.
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  And he said, well, ask God to open and close the doors so you know,
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  And I hadn't thought about asking God, you know, I thought this was stuff we did.
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  And it turned out that that's exactly what happened, that God did open and close
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  the doors and we, yeah, it was good.
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  I mean, I often tell that story and bring that testimony and you see the open
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  doors to ministry, but I don't often illustrate the fact that doors were closing
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  at the same time. I mean, there were gobs of teachers at that time.
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  And so getting a teaching job would have been difficult.
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  But pastors, there weren't quite as many pastors.
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  The second piece was, that was right at the beginning of what would be the farm crisis.
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  And so by the time I left college and went to seminary, the farm crisis in Kansas was already starting.
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  And so at the auction of my machinery, I got pennies on the dollar at that auction.
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  In fact, I did let the tractor go because it went for exactly what I bought it for.
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  I did let the pickup go because it was pretty well worthless otherwise.
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  But we kept the swather because it was brand new in 77, 79. It was only two years old.
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  And dad still has it to this very day because we could not get the money out
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  of it that we had invested.
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  So that door was closed to me going back to the farm at that point and doing
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  that. because of the farm crisis.
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  So God opens and closes doors. That was the word that my pastor gave me.
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  And I believe it's true yet today.
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  Yeah. Do you think recognizing the closed doors is harder than the open one sometimes?
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  Well, it depends on how hard they slam shut.
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  Oh, my nose. But it's a,
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  well, I often repent to God about how abrupt, how vocal, how distinct he has to be for me to hear.
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  I mean, we're supposed to be able to hear God's still small voice, right?
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  And that's how we recognize him because in the midst of all the clamor around
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  us, we train our ears to hear God's still small voice.
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  But I repent of the fact that sometimes I'm not listening attentively to his still small voice.
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  It's sort of a discipline. It's sort of a part of our discipleship to train
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  our ears to hear God. Okay. Yeah.
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  All right. The next one, can you explain why we should fear God if he loves
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  us, cares for us, watches over us, and so much more?
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  Well, I think the word for fear,
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  we have to look at a little bit because that's our English word. Okay.
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  And the word in the Hebrew, I think probably illustrates it best.
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  It's in awe of, I mean, he's an awesome God.
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  And so he's so much bigger, so much more powerful than anything we have in the
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  human realm, that we are in awe of his power, his wisdom, his ability to turn situations around.
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  And so the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, says in Proverbs.
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  That understanding of who God is in the light of who we are,
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  I mean, he's infinite, we're finite.
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  Yeah. He's all powerful and we've got just about so much we can do.
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  So how do we live in relationship to an awesome God?
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  I mean, basically, we're in awe of what God does.
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  And the unique thing is, this God has chosen to work not only for us, which is nice,
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  he's taken away our sins, but he's also chosen to work in us so that he gives
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  us gifts and abilities through which he can be glorified.
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  And so when we live for God and use those things for God, we're part of what he wants to do.
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  And I think that's pretty cool. So fear, the fear of the Lord is beginning of
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  wisdom because then we actually understand who he is in light of who we are.
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  That makes the Christ event even more fascinating, that this God who we fear is,
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  would love to the extent of allowing Christ to come and take away our sin.
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  I mean, really, is that a fearful God?
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  Is that a God to be in fear of or in awe of, wow, this God, yeah.
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  And there's no other deity that's talked about that wants that kind of relationship.
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  I mean, once that kind of relationship requires, almost to the point of requiring
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  that kind of relationship for us to live in relationship with him. Yeah.
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  And I find that during my day, those times of quiet, refreshing are very important
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  to my relationship with God.
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  Just like, you know, our relationship gets better the more time we spend with each other.
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  Yeah. And I think we can't expect ourselves to get closer to God without spending time with him.
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  And then we move from that, oh, this is the God who's going to send me to hell
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  if I don't do everything right, to this is the God who desires the best for
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  my soul, the very best for my soul. That's cool.
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  So not an afraid, but an awe. Yes. Yeah.
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  Good. All right. Well, that might be all that we have.
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  But thank you guys for joining us. If you have any questions,
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  any reactions to what we had to say, Don had to say there, let us know and share it with somebody.
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  Yeah. As many people as you want to. Yeah. There's no subscription fee.
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  Yeah. No. Yeah. It's free. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Try to get a bargain like that every day. Yeah.
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  All right, we'll see you next time. Lord willing.
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  Thank you for joining us for this podcast. Feel free to become part of this
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  ministry by sharing with others.
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  Our goal is to help each other grow deeper in our understanding of who God is
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  and is calling to us in our daily lives.
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  Thank you again for joining us and may God bless your day.