Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Happy Hour #30: Cosplaying While Woman

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Happy Hour #30: Cosplaying While Woman · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I've never told you your production of high Radio today
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: is Thursday, which means it is time for another happy hour.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: As always, drink responsibly if you choose to do so.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Why are you drinking, Samantha, I'm keeping it simple for
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: this sad, sad hour, unhappy hour, okay hour. Oh it's
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: an okay hour. Okay. I assumed at being Annie's corner
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: would be an unhappy hour, but I guess it is
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: a neutral hour. It's an ups and downs hour, but
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: it's actually going to be all right, ups and downs.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: You're ready for the troller coaster. I am drinking a Seltzer,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: just a strawberry lemonade Seltzer, keeping it easy going summary
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: in this day much of a rainstorm because the hurricane
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: has come through for those of you out in New
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Orleans and Louisiana. Were thinking about you and hope you're safe,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: but yeah, what about you? I am drinking a dag
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: of a slug slicker, which if you could see, it's
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: greenish blue. Nice. Yes, because I celebrated a friend's birthday
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: and my birthday last weekend by staying in and eating
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of Star Wars themes, foods, and watching a
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: lot of Star Wars and drinking some Star Wars drinks.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: And our friend and colleague Collie Fry, who was on
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: this happy hour before to talk about um Star Wars
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: among many things, sent me all of these recommendations. Of course.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, And so this is from the Galaxy's Edge cookbook,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: which I did get for my birthday. Yeah, it's essentially
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: a margarita. It's it's tequila and then blue girls out
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: for the color just a little bit, and then a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: little bit of water and lime juice and then kind
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: of a rosemary ginger simple syrup. Mine, for some reason,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: is much bluer than the picture in the book. And
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I can't figure out where I went wrong, but something
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: is wry. And then I put blackberries in there. Is
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: it supposed to be blue? It's supposed to be green.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Oh so something with the blue curse. I was supposed
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: to do something, and it's not happening in mine. It's
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: still a cool color. Maybe you didn't put enough lime juice.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I'm put in a lot of lime juice because it
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: is a little bit sweeter than I normally would drink.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: And so I added a lot more. And also I'm
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: drinking out of the glass you got Me, which is
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: the last of us two glass and it says, if
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I ever were to lose you, I truly lose myself,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: which is this very sad song slash quote. The whole movie,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: the whole movie. See, it's a movie. It's a game experience.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: You take it in like a movie. So there's I do.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I do, And that's one of the reasons I wanted
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to talk about what we're talking about today, which is
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: my experience caused playing as a woman, because I have
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: been working on an Ellie from the Last of Us
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to cos play, which is barely simple costume wise, and
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons I've said before, I wear
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of costumes for work, and I am currently
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: scheduled to speak at Dragon Cord, which I'm still I
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: don't know what's gonna happen, but um, it just got
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: me thinking about all of this, and I know I've
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: touched on it before, but I want to talk about
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: it because I do. I'm actually kind of shy, and
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: when I do cosplay, it is it does take a minute,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: like I have to get over kind of an embarrassment.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: But I feel if I can do that, then it
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: it is a wonderful experience of feeling like someone else
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: for a minute, just really like really really For me,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: it feels like really empowering. But that being said, there
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: is a long history of women cosplaying kind of being
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: relegated into two categories, and it really annoys me because
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: we've talked about gatekeeping when it comes to fandom, and
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: cosplay is generally seen as more of a woman's area,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: um and I think everyone knows we just in case
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: you don't. Cosplay is like costuming. It generally has some
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: element of like your behaving as that character, but it
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't always. I think a lot of times it just
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: gets thrown around as you make this costume to be
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: this character. But the two categories I was talking about,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like women are relegated to is either sexy
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: or funny, right, and it's you can't be anything in between,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: which is that, you know, not unique to nerd culture
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: or at all. Like I know, it's been an ongoing
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: conversation around Halloween costumes even of just the options that
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: are available for women, and I think when it comes
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: to the sexualized aspect, it's really unfortunate for a lot
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: of reasons, because there are plenty of time when I
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: feel like I have to make considerations in costumes that
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: other like dudes don't have to make of how is
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: this going to be perceived? And as sometimes I even
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: think about what what does this costume mean? Like if
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I wanted to be this character, is it in some
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: way like not feminist or like the way I would
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: wear it, is it not feminist? No matter what you do,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: you're going to be sexualized. So there have been times,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: because I think it's no secret that I have worn
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of like the Winter Soldiers, the one I'm
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: known for, and that one it can be seen as sexy.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: It wasn't really my intent, but you know, it's like
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: a little weather and it's pretty tight. And then I've
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: done like Catwoman, just also got a little other and
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: then right now I'm working on like Luke Skywalker, and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I've got my helicost tube and my Harley Quinn costume.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: But all of that, if you wear something like that,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: which that's also called gender bending, is when you dress
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: as a gender that is not your own, of character
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: who identifies as different gender than your own. I feel
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: like there's this judgment that happens where usually men are
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: angry with you or look down on you for sexualizing
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: their favorite character or somehow making them like more effeminate
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: in quotes, are weaker by being a woman dressing as this,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: like that's ridiculous. A woman could never do what this
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: character does. And then like I'll never forget one time
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was dressed as catwoman and I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: got so many sexual comments, like so so so many.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: This one guy came up to me and he just said,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: like in the grossest like lurious voice ever, like you
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: know what you're doing? And I was like what, yeah.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: And it's like, if you dressed that way, you have
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: to expect that. That seems to be the vibe. It's like, well,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: you dressed like that, so this is the attention you're
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: going to get it you knew what you were doing. Yeah,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: it's gross. It's gross. And then there's another aspect of
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: it of if you're dressed as a character, people will
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: ask to take pictures with you, and you would well
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: you probably would believe it, but I have gotten asked
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: to you all kinds of like positions and like they
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: just want this picture with their character, but it's like
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like you'd ask that of them, really don't.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: And then on top of that, there's like, well, what
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: if children see me and I don't want and I'm like, hey,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: that I have to think about that at all. But
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I don't want them to see this like interactions and
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: think like this is normal or this is what should
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: be accepted or expected. But at the same time, if
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I want to dress sexually, then I want to just sexily,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: like I don't all these considerations, And the only way
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: to escape that is to do like the other total
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: opposite into the sect room and do something really funny
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: where you're not sexual at all, so hopefully you can
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: escape this kind of attention. I mean, that's a whole
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: other conversation too of like what costumes, How costume design
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: for women has been in generally sexy, so like what's
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: available to you to choose from sex and so we
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: talked about that really tell me more. It essentially was
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Halloween and the costumes were I think like sexy cat
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: or oh frumby which or something like that. Essentially, let's
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: say either you're one or the other, and you can't
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: there's and they're like Yep, you just said a whole
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: mouthful right there. Yeah, it's essentially. Yeah, we talked about
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: that all the time, the Madonna and the Horse and droom,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: like eventually you have to choose one or the other.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: And I thought about that too, and I'm feeling like
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: really sad and down on myself, like how long can
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: I get away with cosplaying before people just think I
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: put think just terrible about having fun to continue to
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: do it, but that is like sometimes I do feel
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: really embarrassed when I do it, and there's a weird
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: like and I'm thinking of conventions specifically here, Um, this
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: is a dude space and my dude costume is really
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: good while yours is silly and like not good and
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be around you, and it's it's
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: very strange because, like I said, again, outside of conventions,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like causeway is more of a woman's realm
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: and has been. But you enter that space and suddenly
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: it's like you are just an amateur trying to keep up.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: And that can differ by genre too, because some genres
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: have more intense gatekeeping than others, but that that also
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: comes with it. And we did like the fake geek
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Girl episode. I've been tested on my like Marvel knowledge
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: before when people come up and be like, you don't
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: have the right to justice as character because you don't
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: know enough about them or whatever, which is so dumb,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: so dumb, And I hate that I get caught up
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: into it because all sometimes I'll be, oh, yeah, I do,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, I should even give it a time
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: of day. It doesn't matter in either case, right, what's
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: the point in such gatekeeping when are we just here
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: for fun? Yes? And also, I mean that's a big
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: h That is a big can of worms that I've
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: tried to like let go. But I I don't feel
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: like I'm very good at making things. And there is
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: a kind of an air around dragon Con because dragon
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Con is the one in Atlanta is more about costumes
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: and cosplay than it is about, I would say, the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: guests or celebrities. That's been my experience. And that being said,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: there is a level of judgment that comes with if
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: you bought your costume versus if you've made it, And
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I really don't care. I do appreciate when people took
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: the time and have the skill to make it, but
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I really, you know, great for you, but I'm not
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: going to judge people for buying stuff. Yeah. I can
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: impact up more later, but for simplicity's sake right now, generally,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to judge people for buying stuff. But
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I find that a lot of the guys who I
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: felt judged by I have bought like everything they have,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: and I've made mine, and I guess mine is like
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: you can tell I made it, but a damned if
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: you do, damned if you don't. I'm telling you it's true. Yeah,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: this is just my anecdotal experience, and I feel like
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I do have a lot of anecdotal experience with friends
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: of mine as well. But I also feel like there's
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: a a level of you're not X enough to be
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: this character, which does happen to men, but I think
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: it happens way more to women. It was like, you're
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: not strong enough and you could never be strong enough,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: or you're not you don't fit the part for whatever reason,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: and therefore you're just like a little girl masquerading around.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Just gross too and kind of unrealistic because most of
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the characters you're dressing up as you're nothing alike. Sorry,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: so may you may look somewhat like that person but
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you have that personality nor mindset or
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: superhero abilities. You're not magic, bro, So why are you
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: trying to get keep? Because they don't look enough like
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: all you like you're faking too, like you're making pretend
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: and enjoying your life and having a moment that's a
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: little outside reality because it's nice to escape reality. So
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: let it be. Yeah, Well, and I think that's we
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: could come back and have a bigger conversation about that,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and we've talked about it a little in other things.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: But and I could be totally wrong. This could be
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: just me, you know, analyzing dude fans at these conventions
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: that have done this to me, because I've met plenty
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: of nice, like male fans, but in general, my bad
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: experiences have been with dudes at these things. And it's
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: almost like they're so insecure, like they feel like they've
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: been made fun of for being nerds for their life.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: And we talked about this with Gatekeeping for sure, like
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that they want to put you down and make you
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: feel like I've done the hard work, I know what
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I've earned this expertise and their right
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: to do this, and they just assume because you're a
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: woman that you haven't and I feel, I don't know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: it feels to me like it's coming from a place
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: of insecurity, And I could be totally wrong, but like
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: they're they're nervous about being made fun of, so they're like,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna make fun of her before she can get
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: me first. Oh sure, there's a lot of insecurity and
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of this. Again, he's part of it. Some
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: people take it very seriously, very seriously, like we talked
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: about with fandoms, don't mess with people. Step out of line.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: You're gonna get called out real quick. And it goes
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: beyond just loving something, and therefore it becomes a whole
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: other level of ownership, which is not the worst thing,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: but can become unhealthy. Oh absolutely. And there there's so
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: many avenues of cosplay which I love, that have been
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: unhealthy and are improving. Um. And when you talk about
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: conventions and specific like the things we talked about all
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the time, like there's layers of racism and ableism and sexism,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: just because it's not like it's separate from the world.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: It's that's the world we live in. So there are
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: aspects of that as well. And I'm glad we're having
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: those conversations and also just you know, access, like who
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: can afford to go to these things and who can
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: afford to buy their costume? Are to make their own costume,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: like all that stuff, and then we're judging people who
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: had to do whatever they had to do to be
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: a character that they want to be and love and
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: then making them feel guilty about it, which it should
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: be a fun experience where we're sharing like a love
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: of something. And I think, you know again, I know
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I bring it up all the time, but like things
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: like fan fiction, I feel like there's a judgment of
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: my way is the right way to enjoy a fandom?
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: You don't get it. You're making it worse for being
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: here as a woman because it's so I feel like
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: there's just a layer of seeing as weaker like you
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: were making How dare you dress as the Winter Soldier?
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Because now I feel like he's weak and effeminate like
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: that aspects of it. All that being said, I do
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: love cosplaying and I find it really rewarding. I find
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the dressing up of rewarding. And I also, like I said,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm good at making things, but
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I did make it like I was persistent and determined
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and there was some amount of of real success that
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I got from that, And especially when um the Winter
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Soldier arm I've made four of them, and they I
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: feel like they got better and better and I eventually
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: got so good at it. I posted a video on
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: my Instagram of like, here's how you do it. I
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: did it one like, you know, a couple of hours,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: whereas before it took me like months to do it.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: So I feel like there's so many levels of expertise
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: in this, whether it is your knowledge of it or
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: your love of something or how you made it. And
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: people get really really creative, and I'll never forget one
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: time this like college professor came up to me like
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: took a picture and you know, said can I use
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: this in my art class? How did you do this?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: And that's that's a wonderful feelure. And I think like
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of women do that where we doubt the
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: things that we've made or have done or put together
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and we shouldn't like we shouldn't have that level of doubt.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: That being said, we have an episode coming up on
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: blogs and you asked me, Samantha, like if you could
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: have made something doing something else, or if you could
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: have a blog, what would it be. You would obviously
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: be fan picture, but I think I could do a
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: cosplay one because that's where I've gotten a lot of
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: tips for how to make things through cosplay blogs. And
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I once was asked if I would cosplays for actually,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and I thought, the damn business card. But there's a
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: light where time out there cosplaying and getting paid for it.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: You should because your stuff is really good, very thought out.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I think you have a lot of good supporters because
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: you're friends. Some of your friends are amazing at this
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: cosplay thing, and again our friend of the show, Holly
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: amazing at this cosplay thing, just amazing. And general loan crafting,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I have no skills, so I would definitely be that
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: person that would buy things. I mean, I'm not even pretending.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: It's not like I'm being self deprecating. I really don't
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: have the crafting skills to make things. I can barely
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: draw things. My handwriting is unintelligible, Like that's just it's
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: just bad. So for people who do things, I'm like, wow,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: great job, and you do a great job. Oh thank you.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: You know, as always was never an attempt to get
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: a compliment, but I will take it. I will take it.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And I have had to be creative and I've I've
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: liked that, like I've had to like find pieces and
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: stuff that normally wouldn't go together and make it. And I,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: you know what, proud of that profit you should be.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: But listeners, oh my goodness. If you have cosplay pictures
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you want to share with us our tips, please send
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: them our way. You can emails at Stephanie and mom
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Stuff at I heart me dot com. You can find
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram at stuff We'd ever told you or
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always, you
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: are super producer. Christina also good at most things she does.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I believe, yes, oh for sure. And thanks to you
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: for listening. Steph, I never told you his protection of
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts are my Heart Radio
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: because the Heart Radio ap Apple podcast. I'll ready listen
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.