Latest / Conspiracy! The Show / The Chicago Tylenol Murders Revisited

Transcript

The Chicago Tylenol Murders Revisited · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: W insurance.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I'm true, I'm a checkup insurance. Good true than is.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Hey.
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: Everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm your host, Dadam
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: Todd Brown joining me is co host this week. Ooh,
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: my favorite co host of all No co host, but
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: in a few minutes I will be talking to a
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: fantastic guest, Joseph Chabelli, author of the new book The
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: Thailand All Murders, a father's confession to his son. If
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: you're unfamiliar, The Thailand All Murders are a series of
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: crimes that happened in the Chicago area in nineteen eighty two.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: Seven people were killed after taking tyland all that was
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: laced with potassium cyanide. The deaths started on September twenty ninth,
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: nineteen eighty two, and by early October, investigators had identified
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: the over the counter pain reliever that all of the
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: victims had taken as the culprit behind the poisonings. It's
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: one of the most notorious unsolved crimes in history, and
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: people talk about that part all the time, but what
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: gets mentioned less is that it's also one of the
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: most remarkable comebacks from a pr disaster in the history
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: of corporate America. After the deaths, a massive recall of
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Tylandol started. More than thirty one million bottles of Tyleranol
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: were pulled off shelves nationwide. At home, people were dumping
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: their bottles of Tyleranol in the toilet, exactly what you
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: want to not do with something that might be tainted
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: with potassium cyanide.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: But I digress.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: Before this happened, Tilandl held thirty five percent of the
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: over the counter pain reliever market, and within weeks that
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: fell to eight percent. But in response to that, tailand
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: All did a very radical thing for corporate America. They
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: actually took accountability for the failings in their product that
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: allowed this crime to happen. They ended up working closely
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: with the FDA to implement a bunch of new safety
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: precautions that went a long way toward re establishing public trust,
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: and those safety precautions remain the industry standard today now,
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: more than forty years later. Not even the full weight
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: and fury of the Make America Healthy Again movement can
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: take down thailand All. As you'll hear in today's interview,
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: the police had some really compelling leads in this case
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: over the years, but none that ever panned out, and
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: the case remains unsolved. As the title of the book implies,
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: our guest Today, author Joseph Chibelli, believes his father, a
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: man named Daniel Drosed, was in fact the Chicago Thailand
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: All Murderer and people. I one hundred percent believe him.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: I think if you read his book you will too.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: In the show notes, we link to where you can
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: buy it. I was especially excited to do this episode
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: because this is a story that holds a lot of
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: memories for me. I grew up in Illinois and I
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: was six years old when the Thailand All Murders happened,
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: So this is probably the first really big, high profile
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: crime I remember from childhood. What I remember the most
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: is the panic and the rush by my parents and
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: literally every other adult in my orbit to dispose of
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: any tailand all in the house immediately. Way later in life,
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: I appeared on an episode of History's Greatest Mysteries about
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: the Chicago tailand All Murders, Me and Morpheus on the
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: same show. Who could have seen it happening? What did
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: not come up at all on that episode of television
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: I filmed was anything that we're going to talk about today.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: Daniel DROs is a brand new entry on the Chicago
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: Thailand All Murders suspect list. And again, I think our
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: guest today makes a highly convincing case that this is
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: the guy who did it. So, without further ado, let's
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: get to our interview. Hey, everyone, I am back as
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: promised with Joseph Chabelli, author of the Thailand All Murders,
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: A father's confession to his son. Joseph, thank you so
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: much for doing the big I appreciate it. How's it
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: going good?
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: How about you?
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: I'm all right.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was telling you right before we started recording.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: I just finished the book this morning. This is a
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: fascinating read. This book should be a film, agreed. Yeah,
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: I think it would legitimately be a really really interesting
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: movie because it's.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because people who've read the book have said that,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and I said, well, you know, I've already started to
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: think about that. I reached out to Satan himself if
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: he would play my dad, and he turned it down.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: He said no, he didn't want to be cast like that.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: So we'll get into him and people will learn all
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: about him.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, your dad was a character too.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, put it mildly holy shit, the Thailand all murders,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: which the book obviously centers around. It's one of the
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: first big news stories I remember because I was six
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: when it happened, So I just remember the dumping out
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: of the tailan all and kind of the panic around it.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: But I wasn't really old enough to have processed it
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: that much. Nineteen eighty two, though, was a vastly different
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: time in terms of how news worked, which comes up
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: in the book. Take the listeners back to nineteen eighty
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: two America for a bit.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: What was it like nineteen eighty two America. Yeah, it
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: was definitely a different world. We did not have a
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: twenty four to seven news cycle, We did not have
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: social media, and we did not have a news feed
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: constantly in our face. I think I described it in
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: the book as saying that news was a conscious choice.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: News was something, you know, if you wanted to watch
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the news, you sat down at you know, five or
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: seven or nine or eleven and watch the news. You
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: might hear something coming in on the radio, and that
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: was it. We did not have the news like we
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: did now, and you know, we'd traveled differently then. It
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: was more on the streets. So when this was happening,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I mean I had an idea what was going on,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: because it was literally if you were to look at
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: a map where our house was at and where these
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: bottles were placed, you can see. I mean, it was
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: happening all around us, but we were strangely insulated from
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: the news. It was a choice back then.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, one of the things I actually just recently found
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: out how recent of a development this is, and I'd
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: bring it up because it comes up in your book.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: Nine to one one wasn't even everywhere in the country
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: by this point. I think it wasn't until kind of
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: deep into the eighties that more than fifty percent of
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: the country had.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I don't even know in Lions where we grew up
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: when they got nine one one. But yeah, at the
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: time of the book, when I had to call the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: police on him for other things, it was basically you
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: had to you had to know that number, and you know,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: punch the numbers in. And I think I said in
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: the book, you know, God help you if you have
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: an emergency on a rotary phone, because it wasn't easy.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: The book opens in a really interesting place with your
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: father Daniel DROs confessing to have committed the Taiwan all murders.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: So not in those exact words, but.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: No, my father and I had I addressed this in
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: the book as well. Like my father, he's spoken riddles,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: he's spoke in rhymes, he's spoke in code. So even
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: on his deathbed, he was he brought this to the
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: surface in more than once. And he used the term
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: cyanide pills. I did it, cyanide pills. And then he
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: also referred to the three mary And if anybody who's
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: researched this knows, there were three of the victims were
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: named Mary, and he says, you know, the three Marys
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: should still be here. One of them was so young,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: and it was just it's profound actually because my mom's
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: name is Mary as well. But he was talking, you know,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the three Marys should be here. One of them was
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: so young, and it was like when he said this,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I just I went, oh, yeah, I knew he did this.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I had an inkling about it in nineteen eighty two,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and I've carried that my whole life, and then here
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: he just gave me this on his deathbed, basically just
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: dropped this in my lap.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: Reading the book, even before you get into talking about
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: kind of the I guess evidence that he would have
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: been the one who did this. Just hearing you describe
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: this man, I was like, yeah, he probably did.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: It, and you know in the book. So when I
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: started this, I honestly, when he said this, I mean
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: it was immediate. The light went off in my head.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I remembered back to things that I remembered from nineteen
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: eighty two, and so I started filling in the blind
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and I wasn't even I didn't even think I was
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: going to write a book.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: First.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I honestly thought I would find some exculpatory evidence that
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: would state very clearly he did not do this, he
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: was out of town, or you know, fill in the blank,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: there would be a reason why he didn't do this.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: And every time when I would go down those paths,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I found, you know, five more things that pointed to
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: this crime. And you know, I really didn't start out
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: to write a book, but as I was figuring this out,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, this truth has to be told, so
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I need to put this. You know, I have a
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: PhD in forensic psychology and I'm also going into my
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: last year of law school, so I understand that things
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: have to be in writing, you know, I needed to
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: put this in writing as opposed to coming out and
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: being all, you know, crazy, But yeah, I didn't even
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: intend for this to be a book.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: And you talk a little bit about the motive here,
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: because I think that with the tailand all murders has
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: probably always been a question everyone has had, what the
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: hell could have been the motive here? And you present
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: a pretty interesting one talking.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I presented a forensic analysis of him, and when
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: he was young. He was I've never been able to
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: nail down his exact age, but it falls somewhere between
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: four and seven. He was at his grandmother's house and
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: he was, you know, mischievous child for sure, digging through
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: some a cabinet in the bathroom and he found some
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: sort of a syrup and it had sulfa in it,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: and he drank it and it was cherry flavored. So
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: he drank it. And his story to me was that
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: he died that day. He actually spent time two weeks
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: or so in the hospital recovering from this, and he
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: told me, he's like, I died that day. I crossed
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: over and I came back and he had told me.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: He said he was never the same again after that.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: So with the tilan All, right, before the murders happened,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: tiland All was on a or McNeil Pharmaceuticals, Johnson and Johnson.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: They were on a big kick putting out a new
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: children's co tile in all so it was flavored children's tablets,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and at that time, none of the tops were sealed.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: There was no you know, we didn't have like the
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: four seals to break through to get into anything. It
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: was literally just unscrew it and take it. And I
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: my brother had gotten into some actually liquid children's tile
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and all. And so I think my father just in
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: his psychotic way, decided, you know what, I'm going to
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: do something about this myself. And you know, he got
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: this going and I think in his mind, I can
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: honestly tell you that you know, he thought, well, you know,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: seven people are so dyed, but think of how many
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: people didn't die. That is how his mind works. And
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: it's it's horrible to say something like that, but you
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: got to you have to get inside of those minds
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: to understand what's going on in there. And that was
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: his mindset. And I think ultimately he felt doing this
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: he could get away with it, which he did.
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I could see that in an unwell mined
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: being a decent justification. Well, yeah, you know, six or
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: seven people are going to die, but think of all
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: the people that'll be saved because changes.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: And if they had these caps on when he was young,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't actually died, you know, he wouldn't have passed
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: on and then been brought back. He he had a vengeance.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: My father was very vengeful, and he had a vengeance.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: He had a vendetta and he took it out.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: And yeah, he also, it seems, crafted a few different personas,
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: including one called Evil Dan, who was a real bastard.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Evil Dan was a bastard, yes, and my father had
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: referred to himself as Evil Dan. He would I mean,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: you know, he would do something like, say you were
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: walking into the room and he would trip you, because
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: that was he was like that, you know, I mean
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: that's you know, people do that, but he would trip
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: you and he'd be like, oh, that wasn't me, that
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: was Evil Dan. He would refer to himself, you know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: in this other character. And through the book, I developed
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: some other Dan characters. There was Hyper Dan, there was
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Deacon Dan, there was a lot of them, but he
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: actually himself referred to himself as Evil Dan.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: He lives up to the name in this book.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: I won't get into all the details on the pod,
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: but it's a pretty heroin reass.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: When I was starting to talk before about how I
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: didn't want to write a book about this, but yeah,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: he I don't know how to explain him. He was
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a character. He definitely he was mean and he was horrible.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And the pictures that I painted in the book that
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: are talking about the abuse that we suffered in our home,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: it was rampant, and nineteen eighty two was the worst
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: of all of the years. And I painted a picture
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: in the book of the abuse that we suffered. And
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't put that out there to be per se
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: a litany of woes for me or for my family,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: but I had to put background in there so people
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: could see the mindset of this man. And you know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: for every act in that book that he perpetrated on us,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: the violence, there's at least or four more that are
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: not covered in the book. I honestly, I know it's overwhelming.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I think when people read this because they just didn't
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: have any idea and they don't understand it, but I
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: tell people, as you know, for everything you're reading there,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: there was so much more. I tried to keep it
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: on the lower end because I didn't want the book
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: to be about me and the abuse I suffered. I
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: wanted it to be about speaking this truth.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it, I mean, it does a great job
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: of painting him as someone who would absolutely commit a
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: crime like this. I think one of just of all
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: the examples of evil Dan in this, I think the
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: one that it's definitely not the most harrowing. But the
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: thing that weirded me out the most was the thing
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: where he would take you to the woods to just
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: sort of track strangers.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was that that time when I wrote
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: about that in the book. He had taken me on
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: excursions like that previously, but not to this extent. The
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: extent in the book. I mean, he had packed up
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I call it the Army Green Cross body bag,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: and he had packed up this blanket in there that
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: he named and I don't know why, but he named
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the blanket Itchy Brother took. I know, it's bizarre. He
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: took Itchi brother in the blanket and then he had
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: camouflaged netting that he put over us, and that was
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: the first time. That's why I referenced this particular time
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: in the book, because it seems like in that era
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: his mindset was completely changing. He had me out there
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and we watched. We stalked a couple going into the woods,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and we were kind of behind a tree that had fallen,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and he laid out ITCHI brother and we were on
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the ground and we could just barely see up over
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: this log, and then he covered us with this camouflage netting.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there, I'm like, why does he have
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: camouflage netting? When did he even get this? Because, like
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I said, this was not the first time we stopped people,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: but this was the first time. And mind you, I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: was eleven at the time. This was the first time though,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: with the camouflage netting, so that was new. That was
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: something new to his repertoire, was the camouflage netting. And
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: we sat there perfectly still. These people had had no
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: idea that we were behind them. My father taught me,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: he taught my brother, He taught us all how to
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: walk through the woods and not make a sound, how
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: to constantly be aware of what is in front of you,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: what's tier left, what's tier right? What is above you?
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: What is behind you? At all times? And we very
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: stealthily sat and waited behind this lug. So long story short,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the people come walking past and I'm looking at him
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and he's watching them like a predator, and I'm like,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: they kind of walked past the lug and he didn't
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: do anything, and I was like, well, you know what,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: if he's going to attack him, he missed his chance.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: That second, my father jumped up so fast with that
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: camouflage netting on him, jumped over the log and one
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: jump was right up behind these people. They had no
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: idea he was even there. And he made this noise
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: like a bore. It sounded like a bore, like a
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: wild boar with the netting on him, right behind these
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: people and they around and I'm telling you, like there
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: was a blood curdling scream. It was a man and
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: a woman and they ran into the parking lot and
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: my father actually chased them to the where the trail starts.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: He didn't go into the parking lot. And I'm watching
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: this from behind the log and I'm going, what is
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: going on? Like what is this about? I don't even
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: understand what I'm seeing right now. They get in the car.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I hear the wheels, you know, squealing, and just calm, calm, calm, calm.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: My father comes walking back, picks the netting off, shakes
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: out the blanket, folds it up, puts it back in
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: the bag, and just extremely calm. He looks me right
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: in the eye and he says, that is how you
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: stalk your preyh I know, nic I mean I got
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: goosebumps just telling you now, because my mind went to
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: those people, like these poor people, and I had said
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: in the book, I wish they were learning the lessons
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: that I had was learning from him, because maybe they
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been in this predicament. And luckily nothing happened,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: and they pulled out of there, and I kept thinking, like,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: we're going to get in the car and leave here,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and the police are going to be there, but you know,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the military, he's going to be there looking for him.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Somebody is going to be there with the machine guns
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: holding us at hot you know, gunpoint. Nope, Nope, he
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: was so calm, like nothing, just like that is how
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you stuck your prey.
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: I bet those people told that story to new personnect with.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: That like from if they read this or if they're
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: hearing this to be like, you know what that was me,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: because they're they're probably still out there somewhere.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: And that's actually one of the reasons I say this
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: book should be a movie, because it seems like a
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: lot of those things your dad handed down to you about,
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: you know, watch everything, be observant is kind of what
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: you used to figure out how much of a ship
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: had He.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Was absolutely I used the line at least a couple
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: times in the book, like, I do not think he
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: was expecting me to use his training in psychopathy against him.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: He was teaching us this for a reason, you know,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and I don't know why, but he was teaching us
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: this for a reason. And I did an interview before
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: the book was out, and the journalist he came to
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: my house and he had asked me, He's like, can
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: my girlfriend come with she's a psychiatrist, you know, and
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: you know, we were talking about this and we got
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: to this part and his girlfriend she just looked at
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: me and she said, it's just obvious your father loved
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you so much. And I was like, okay, get out
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: of my house. What security can you please escort this
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: woman out of here. But I had to really think that,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I've heard that several times since then,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I guess in his own twisted way,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: he did. He did love us. He was teaching us,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: but you know, it was like a baptism of through fire.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Though it was definitely, yeah, it was. It was an
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: experience growing up with him.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: To me, I mean, I wasn't there obviously, but just
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: reading it, it comes off almost like he's showing off,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: like it's, well, hey, you're not going to believe what
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: Let me let me teach you.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Right, And you know, I mean I've described my father
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: because people ask, you know, do you think other people
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: could have involved been involved with him? And I said,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think so. My father was more
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: like the lone wolf type. Yeah, and I do think.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I talk about it in the book where sometimes I
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: felt like I was his only friend. You know, he
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: would go into his hyper dan Mo and be like,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: let's go here, let's go do this, let's go do that,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: and then you know, an hour later he was, you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: off the deep end again. And I feel like, you know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: he was teaching his kids this stuff because he was
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: training us for something and we were like his friends.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, we were honestly like I still I still
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: struggle to figure that out.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it seems like he kind of used you
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: and the family as cover to do what he did.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I go into great detail about when he placed
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the bottles in Elk Grove Village, Arlington Heights, and then
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: there were some found at Schomberg Mall of him taking
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: us hiking and leaving us in the woods. And I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: mean I went in a great detail about this, about
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: the time routes exactly and you could see where we
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: were at in the woods, and it's all of these
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: points are literally right around these woods, and I mean
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: he went out there with the great detail of doing that.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: It's still I mean, I'm still wrapping my brain around
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: it all. I mean, I've had some time to process
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: all this, but I still am wrapping my brain around it.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: The timelines you lay out in the book really work.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: And I mean, if you're coming at it from the
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: true crime, I don't believe in coincidences kind of Yeah, angle,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: there's a lot there. You make a compelling case.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think what's interesting, which I didn't even
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: get into as much in the book. Was that in
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: about nineteen eighty six, I started writing things in a journal.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I started writing these excursions to the woods. I started
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: writing about these things and other things that I saw
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: him do and other events and other things that had happened.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And I kept this journal hidden very well, and it
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: disappeared in about nineteen eighty eight. And I think he
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: knew that I was figuring things out. I mean, he
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: was in the book I talk about, you know, he
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: knew that I was observant, and I think, you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: he had this feeling like I'm keeping track of stuff.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: And that journal went missing. And then in twenty nineteen
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: he reached out. I was living in California and had
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: no contact with him, and he reached out to my husband,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: and this was in twenty nineteen, and he said, I've
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: got a journal of Joey's. I can't wait to come
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: show it to you. I'll see you soon, yi.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: And then right after that another one he had said,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys have a good New year. It's
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: going to be the last for one of you. And
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: this was after I mean, he was talking about this
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: journal which I had written in nineteen eighty six, that
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: disappeared in eighty eight. I think at that point he
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: thought I was going to put this together.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, clearly your dad said some crazy shit to you.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, cluting absolutely.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: At one point, I should have killed you when I
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: had the chance.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, And that was in November, right after the murders,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: and I had I mean, I've got it down almost
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: to the precise date, because I know what movie we
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: were going to see. It was Creepshow. And he got
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: pissed because I didn't want him to go with me.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with my father after that
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: day at Bussy Woods, Like I did not want to
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: be alone with him. Because when we got home from
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Bussy Woods, that was the first time we got up
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: the steps. He's carrying my brother and he looks me
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: right in the eye and he says, if you talk
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: about what went down today ever, I will kill you.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I'll kill your mother, and I will kill your brother
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and sister. So that was the first time he threatened
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: my life, and it was during this era. And then
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: in November that year, I mean, he slammed me against
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the wall and he said, I should have killed you
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: when I had the chance. And that was what a
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: month and a half after the murders.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: Evil Dan, Ladies and gentlemen.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Evil Dan. That's him.
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: One of the central not really figures in this I
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: guess probably isn't the right way to put it is
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: the layer.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Talk about the Layirer a little bit.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, the Layer. That thing was terrifying. So we moved
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: into the house in nineteen seventy six. It was just
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: like an open part of the basement. There's a furnace
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: over there, there's a hot water heater there, you know,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: there's a couple of windows. And in eighty two he
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: started it all just started with a door. He was
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: putting a doorframe up in a door, and it just
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: seemed odd to me. And in the book I talk
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: about it because I just asked him. I was like,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: what's the door for? You know, we go on from there.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Next thing, you know, he's putting a dead bolt on
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: that lock. And this is all in nineteen eighty two,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: right before the murders happened. It just progressively got worse
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and worse and worse, and so that layer was kept
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: under lock and key. So I was using his stocking
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: techniques and I was watching him to figure out what
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: key it was to open that. So whenever I had
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: a chance, and I described two times in the book
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: where he had he was out and his keys were
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: in the house, and I got into that layer and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I saw some crazy shit. I mean I saw, I
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: mean he had stacks and I mean stacks of papers
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: and they looked like back then, they looked like a
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: church bulletin. And those were the poor Man's James Bond.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: I actually had I had a question in here about
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: the poor Man's James Bond, because there's three books that
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: come up a lot, the Anarchist Cookbook, which I think
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: everyone knows about how to Kill, which that's pretty self
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: explanatory from the time, talk about the poor Man's James
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: Bond a little bit.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I had never heard of.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: This, okay. So at the time, you know, this wasn't
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: something you would go to the bookstore and get. You
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: had to send away like mail order. You know, they
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: had to mail it to you. And so from what
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: it appears from what I saw, they would mail it
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and it was like church bulletins, is what it looked like.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: They were a little You would open it up and
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: there would be typing on like every corner. There was
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: writing of this thing. It was chaotic looking and over time,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, these were put out for years and years
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and years. So you know, when I was investigating this book,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I got to figure out what was in
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: this poor Man's James Bond because I saw, I mean,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: he had stacks of these things in his lair. So
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I found some copies online, and I found a PDF
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: of it online and you can view it and see
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the crazy stuff in there. But you know, I was like,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: you know, I need to have it in my hand,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: so I had to order it. I had to order
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: it from a military supply store work in somewhere. So
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I always say, I'm like, I'm sure I'm on the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: FBI's list. Now they're going to come busting through the
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: door any minute now. I'm waiting. But I did get
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: copies of it. So what they've done over time is
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: taken what used to be these flyers and compiled them
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: into three volumes of books. So I got them and
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going through them. And as I'm going through them,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: oddly enough, reading this, I'm like, oh, this makes sense
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: now in the poor Man's James Bond. And I keep
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: beating this drum, this whole plan is laid out in
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: The poor Man's James Bond talking about taking capsules, specifically
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: capsules and filling them with cyanide. It is in The
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: poor Man's James Bond. He had this in his lair.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, one plus one equals too, it
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: does not equal three. One plus one will always equal two.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Those we are in there, and it is laid out,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and it is like there's some dark stuff in there.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would be reading these poor Man James
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Bond and I'd have to just put it down and
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: walk away. It was. It's that dark. It was. I
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: equated it in the book to the Dark Web of
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, yeah, yeah, or seventies even, and it was,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is dark. Like I have those books
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: stored away somewhere under lock and key because I don't
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: want anybody to see them, because it is they are dark,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: just like my father. I guess, you know, the apple
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: doesn't fall far from the tree. But you know, the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: first book I saw was the Anarchist Cookbook. So I'm
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: ten at this point. You know, I'm still ten. I
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: might even benign at that point. And I see it
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm like why is he have a cookbook in here?
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: So I pop it open, I see diagrams for bombs, yeah,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: illicit drugs, how to make illicit drugs, and poisons. And
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I'm like, shut that book and just walk away. Yeah,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I put in the book that. I asked my mom,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: you know, why does dad have a cookbook in his workshop?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: And she basically said, you know, he's always collecting strange things,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: you know how he is. And I'm like, yeah, I
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: do know how he is. Unfortunately. And then the how
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: to kill manual, that one, like you said, is pretty
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: self explanatory. That was in there, and originally it was
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: in another spot in the house when I saw it
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the first time, and I just saw it and it
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: just says how to kill and I'm like, okay, whatever,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: put it back in the cabinet. And then I found
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: it in his workshop. And then you know, in twenty
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: twenty four, twenty twenty five, researching this, I find find
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: out what's in that that book. It's it's also terrifying.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Speaking of things in the layer, there's a kind of
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: running plot line about the pink cup and the powder
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: in the pink cup that was probably the cyanide in
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: the app pink cup right, and you almost put your
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: finger in it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I know he hit. I mean he was as you know,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you can guess he's probably he's nuts. So he came
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: home from work one day and I really broke this
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: down in the book, and he had two cups. One
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: was white, it was whiteish, and one was pink. And
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: he was wearing his red Lion's fire Department jacket. Gets
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: in the kitchen and I'm there with my brother, and
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I got something to show you guys.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Wait you see this. He pulls the cups out of
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: his pockets. There's the white cup and the pink cup.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: He holds the white cup and almost like so we
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: wouldn't see him, like he was doing a magic trick,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: pops the pink cup in his pocket and I was like,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's in that cup, but I want
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to find out. So he opens up the white cup
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and he brought home. I mean these cups that I
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: described in the book. They hold two ounces and it
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: was full and it was full of mercury. The white
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: cup like liquid mercury. And he pours it out on
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: the floor and he's like, you guys can play with
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: it look how cool this is? And it kind of
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, it separates and it comes back together and
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: it's metal. It looks like metal, but it rolls around
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: like like water. It's it's the craziest thing. And he's like,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, you can touch it, you can pick it up.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: It's safe. I mean I sensed like that was dangerous. Yeah,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: but my mind was focused on the pink cup, like
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: what is in the pink cup? Like I was obsessed
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: with finding out what was in the pink cup? And
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you know, I just asked him one day. I went
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: down there. I was like, I'm going to be brave.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask him. I didn't want to get
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: him riled, because that was easy to do, but I
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: kind of came down the stairs. He was in the
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: lair and I'm like, okay, what's in the pink cup?
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: And he just looks at me, and, like I said
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: in the book, it's like I think he was surprised
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I had the balls to ask him. But he just
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: looks at me and he's like, you don't need to know,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, what's in the pink cup? And
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: he gets this look on his face and he's thinking
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is like very dramatic. He's thinking, looking
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: gets down, you know, kind of reaches down, it bends
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: down towards me, and he's like, you know what's in
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: the pink cup. It's kryptonite. Do not ever touch that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: pink cup ever. So as a kid, I'm like, what,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I thought, kryptonite will only kill Superman and he said, no,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: most people don't know this, but kryptonite will kill anyone.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: So after that, I was like obsessed with figuring out
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: what was in that cup. And then you know, when
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I had seen it the first time I was in
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the lair, the cup was full. You could see through
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: these cups, you could see there's stuff in there, and
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: it was full, probably about three quarters of the way up.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: And when I finally had the nerve to get in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: there and open that cup, it was almost gone. Yeah,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I mean there was just a very small layer of it,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: and that was you know, that's when I was going
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: to put my finger in it. And then I had
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: a flashback to something he taught me. So you know,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: that's in the book, and you know he always taught
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: us these things, but I am one thousand percent sure
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: that that was the cyanide and I also documented another
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: story in the book where he did bring cyanide home.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: He used it to kill a tree in our neighbor's yard.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: And I go into a lot of detail about that
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: because I'm telling you as a child, that tree was.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: It was a traumatic scene the way he just he
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: just went at this tree. And you couldn't even be
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: able to imagine it if you didn't see it. It
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: was I can't even describe the way he went at
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: this tree, like he was determined he was going to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: kill that tree. And long story short, he ended up
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: pounding copper nails that were coated in cyanide into the tree.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was that tree died just because part
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: of it was on your property, right.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: And it really wasn't even try I don't know what
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: it was. It was actually on the neighbor's property. And
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: you know, he had just went nuts at these people
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and they put up a fence. They put up like
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: a six foot privacy fence, like bam, one day that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: fence was up, and that tree kind of stayed in
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: between our fences and it was always dropping leaves and
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: mulberries in our yard and he was just, oh my god,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: he'd lost his mind over that tree. He would take
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: the mulberries that fell off the tree. We had a
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: treehouse in the yard. He'd go up there and throw
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: them at the woman that lived behind it. I mean
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: throwing them at her. So she's in the yard getting
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: pummeled with her own mulberries, and then he'd be screaming
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: at her. And I was like, I gotta go in
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the house. I can't take this. This is like I'm
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: becoming unhinged watching him.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah you know, yeah that's wild, but.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that tree. It was very symbolic for me, and
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: he very specifically. I asked him about the copper nails
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: and I was like, so, I get the copper nails,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: but what was the powder because he was dipping the
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: nails into this powder, and he said that was cyanide
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: fantassium signide. He was very specific, and this was an
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and I asked him. I was like, well,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: where did you get that? And he told me Generous Motors,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: which is General Motors, which is where he worked. His
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: full time job was at a division called Electromotive, and
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: he did electroplating of engine parts. And if you look
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: up chemicals used in electroplating, potaskum cyanide is the top
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: of the list. So yeah, you can add one in
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: one equals too.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, add that to the list of things that make
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: it seem like he probably did this.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Absolutely yes. I mean, and there's there's not anybody, I
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: think who actually knows him who could say like, no,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: he couldn't have done this. That wasn't his character. I mean,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: everybody's like, oh wow, I knew he did something in
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: his life. I just had no idea it was this extreme.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, let's talk about a kind of mysterious moment in
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: the book. Since writing it, have you looked any further
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: into who called you out of the blue to tell
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: you that you were on the right track and that
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: your dad did actually do this?
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to give us somehow theory on that.
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: Somehow hung up and disconnected their number within like a minute.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it was a burner phone. Yeah, to
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: be completely honest. So when I started writing this book,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you know, I had my own timeline that I was
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: working from, and what I needed to do was find
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: people who either worked with my dad or knew the
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: family or anything that I could reach out to people,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: And I didn't tell them what I was researching. I
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: never I never said the word til and all murders.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I never said a peep. All I would tell people
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: is like, I'm just looking for some background information about
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: my dad. That's all I would tell them. And so
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I reached out to people and left my
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: phone number, I left my email. So there is a
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: there's a police officer back in town where we grew
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: up who was close with my dad. I could not
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: really necessarily find him to reach out to him, so
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I reached out to him through somebody else. I said,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: when you talk to so and so, will you give
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: him my number, my email, my address. I don't care
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: how they get in touch with me. So this person
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: passed on the information to this police officer who was
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: a former police office, and never heard a peep. But
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: the person who gave him the information to call me
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: had said, oh I gave it to him, he's gonna
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: call you, blah blah blah. Never heard from him. And
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: then as I'm putting all this together, and I'm actually
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: like taking my handwritten notes and typing and putting this
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: book together, my cell phone rings and it's a seven
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: oh seven area code, which was like somewhere in Ohio, Springfield, Ohio.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I pick it up. I'm thinking, you know, it's a
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: telemarketer or something like hello, nothing, and then this voice
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: comes on it. It was scrambled. It was like it was
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: put through a scrambler. It kind of sounded like high
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: pitchy scrambling. And the voice said, you're on the right track,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: your dad did it? Hang up?
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: The whole call it was fourteen seconds. Because I looked
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: at it on the phone. I even took screenshots of
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: how many times I called this number back, and every
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: time I would call, I got the voice that said,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: you know the number, your reach has been disconnected. Please
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: check the number or try to call again. And I
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: wrote all that in the book. I called that thing
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: back at least twenty times. So then I started doing
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: research to see, Okay, who does this number belong to.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty good researcher, and I found out the last
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: like registered person had that phone number in like twenty twenty.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: So at that point I'm like, this was a burner number.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: You can get those on an app and the second
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: you use it, you can delete it, you know, So
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I'm fairly certain that this was possibly that exact officer.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: That's who I'm thinking it is. But somebody was trying
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: to tell me something about this, wanting me to know
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: like I'm on the right track. But here's the part.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: And I didn't go into this in the book, but
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I'll say it right here. When they said that to me,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I wrote down exactly what they said in
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: the book. You're on the right track. Your dad did it.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: They did not say what it was. Oh yeah, Like
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: what do they know about this? Or is this something
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: else I need to be looking at because as I
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: uncovered this, I uncovered more things. There's more, there's more
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: that this man was involved with, and that'll come out,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: you know. I'm working on that now. But I was like, Okay,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: he did what he did it? What is it? Is
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: it tail and all murders? Is it something else? What
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: is it? So? I haven't gotten I haven't gotten a
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: call back yet. I haven't gotten a call back yet.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you. Every time I have a number
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: on my phone that comes up, you know, unavailable or whatever,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I'm on it, I'm like, yes, you know, and no,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: never gotten anything else from that. So that's who I
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: think it was. I think it was an officer who
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: used to work with him, who was behind the scenes,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: like wanting me to know, but not wanting to come
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: out and say it.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder, how do you think he would have
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: known your dad did it.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Do you think would have told him?
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I think I don't think my dad would have told anybody. No,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I think there may have been a slip somewhere. Another
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: guy that worked with my dad. I interviewed him and
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: he was very objective. I mean I had a great
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: interview with him, and he told me at the end
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: he said, first of all, you need to get your
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: father's military records. And then he said, you also have
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: to know your father had a deep and that was
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: the word deep knowledge of chemical and chemistry. My hair
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: stood up. Yeah, because I did not tell him that
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I was looking at the tile and all murders. I think,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you know, word travels fast. So I think if this
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: that mystery phone call was from that officer, I one
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: hundred percent believe that he knew what I was looking at. It.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Just wish he would have clarified it. You know, in
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: law school, I need to have every detail. You can't
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: just say I think he did it. You need to
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: tell me what it is much proved this, you know
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: what I mean, It's like you got one more word
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: to say, So call me back if you're listening.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on James Lewis? Who James Lewis
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: history has kind of always painted as the biggest suspect
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: in this, But I think there's an issue where he's
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: like not even close to Chicago when no.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: He was in New York. So here's James Lewis. Okay,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: this guy. I mean, it wasn't really smart what he did,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: but he wrote an extortion letter to Johnson and Johnson stating,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: if you want the killings to end, you'll wire a
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: million dollars to this bank account. And it was a
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: bank account in Chicago, and that bank account is his
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: wife's former boss. So he was just he was setting
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: this up to make it look like the former boss
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: did it. Well, he got arrested, he was prosecuted for
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: extortion and went to jail, and so many people just
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: kind of drew the line right there, and they're like, no,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: he had to have done it. You know, we got
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: him for extortion, so what if we didn't get him
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: for seven murders? Close enough, you know, But no, it's
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: not close enough.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in the park where he was in New York
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: when it happened.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: He was in New York when it happened, and you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: literally days before these people, unfortunately died. I was with
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: my father in these locations that I discussed in the book.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: I mean we were right there. We were right there.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: So again one in one equals too.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, James Lewis, is you know what twelve hundred miles
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: away whatever it is from Chicago to New York And
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I'm right there, practically in a parking lot. So I
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: think my father was Definitely he was right there.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I am team your father, at least in
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: terms of him having committed this crime.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Oh oh good god. I'm glad you clarified that that
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: was going to hang up now.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: Otherwise not really so evil. Dan was obsessed with Jim Jones.
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I am obsessed with the idea that Jim
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: Jones was maybe cia your dad while he was in
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: the military seems to have made a really odd trip
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: to Oakland, California, at the same time Jim Jones and
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: The People's Temple were relocating to Oakland. Do you think
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: your dad might have been military intelligence of some sort.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think. Okay, So when my dad would he
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: signed up to be in the military, and this is
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: in the book. I try to tell it in his voice,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: but he you know, he went to Fort Leonard Wood
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: to do his basic training, and then he was supposed
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: to be going on to I don't remember if it
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: was Georgia or Alabama. I have that in the book.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Some people kind of cornered him and said, you know,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: we got a job for you. They must have seen
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: his propensity for being psychotic maybe, And he took a
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: little detour out to Oakland, California, and this was in
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: September of nineteen sixty nine, and then he left there
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: October fourth. But there's no actual record of where he
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: was at that time. It's redacted. Yeah, so I can
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: see when he left four somewhere, and I can see
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: when he got to his next location, but this timeframe
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: is redacted, and there's pages that are redacted. So what
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: my mom told me was when my father signed up
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: to be in the army, he was down for like
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: a three year stint with the army, and they let
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: him take it down to two. If he did this
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: what he was calling his special training, so he got
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: trained explosive ordnance disposal, which is bombs. He was trained
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: as a sniper, as a rifleman. I mean that is
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: in his military records. And then the story that he's
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: always told me, he's told my brother, he's told everybody,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: was that while he was in Oakland he was trained
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: in poisons. And he says to me, he said, you
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: know when I went, when I left for Okinawa, I
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: had I had your mom, I had nuclear codes in
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: my pocket, and I had a suicide pill.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Geez.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because his thing was, I mean, I don't know,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is true or not, but
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: what my father told me, he said, you know they
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: always say there were no nukes in Vietnam. That bullshit.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: He's like, I had the codes and he would sneak
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: off they were on Okinawa and he would leave Okinawa
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: to go over to Vietnam. And my mom didn't even
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: know that. He had told her that he was doing
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: guard duty at the base for like three and four days,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: and she said he'd come back like covered, filthy dirty,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: and finally he was like, yeah, I was over there,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: so yeah, you know, he talks about his poisoning training
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: So when I had to have these discussions with my mother,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: you know, she was crying, and I mean, she fully
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: believes he did this, and she also just her heart
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: breaks for the victims, and they also breaks for her
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: children because she's like I honestly, I had no idea
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: how crazy he was because he didn't pull stuff in
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: front of her. I mean, he abused her plenty, but
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of the abuse that we suffered, she wasn't there.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: You know, she was either working or in school. And
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: you know, he really went into some deep detail about this.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: So what my mom told me through tears, and I
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: keep saying this and it just breaks my heart because
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: my mom is crying on the phone, and she said,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: he promised me, He promised me when he left the military,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: he left that life behind him.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that is intense.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: That was intense, and it's you know, it's hard to
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: hear your mother crying. You know, Hey, mom, dad was
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: a mass murderer, you know what I mean. It's none
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: of this has been easy to grapple with, and I
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: think she's doing a great job with it. But that
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: was the hardest thing for me was her. I mean,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: she felt like her whole life was a betrayal with him,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: you know, because he was he was very manipulent. He
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: could cover up whatever he wanted to, and you know,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: he let her see what she needed to see. And
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I you know, it's it's it's been a hard thing
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: to grapple with for everybody. In my heart always from
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: day one has just broken for the victims. You know.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I talked to one of the survivors of the victims.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: She's a niece of three people who died, and it
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: was gut wrenching talking to her. I mean, just tears.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And this is forty four years later, Yeah, you know,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and I look back and there was there was one
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: of the victims was a mom and she had just
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: had a baby. So this child and other children of
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: hers grew up without a mother. And I'm like, I
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: look at a picture of my father and I'm like,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: you did this. I know you did this. Yeah, and
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: it just it breaks my heart. And my brother is
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: in the same boat. My brother just he's having a
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: hard time dealing with this because of that fact that
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: these people died and lives were affected. Forty four years later,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: people are still feeling this.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: There's also a moment in the book where your dad
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: just comes to you and says I've killed people. And
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: that was that was way before the death bed.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was in nineteen eighty eight, and that
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: is It was just a very strange night. I was
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: waiting for one of my friends, Tina, to come pick
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: me up, and he was hanging out down by my room,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: and like, oh god, why is he down here? We
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: don't talk, you know, I mean, we don't. You know,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: if I see him in the room, I go a
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: different way. Yeah, he's sitting there and I think he
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: had been drinking, which he didn't even normally drink, but
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: he was drinking. And he's sitting there and he's like,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: you know what, it's good you go out with your friends.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: You know, I've never been a real social person. And
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, no, shit, most psychos aren't. You know.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking I didn't say it. He would have killed me.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: But you know, we're having this conversation and it's just
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: it's a strange, strange conversation and him sitting there and
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: he's like, well, you know, I've killed people. And I'm
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: like okay, and I got to sit back down. I'm
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: going to get comfortable because I'm going to hear what
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: this is. And I'm like, he starts going on about like,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I've never been right in the head. I
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: don't know if it was when I drank that poison
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: when I was a kid, or if it was being
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: in the military, or you know what it is, but
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: I've never really been quite right in the head. And
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I know. Now, back to who did
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: you kill? He would kind of go off on another tangent,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: and I'd be like, Okay, back to who did you kill?
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: You just told me you've killed people. Did you kill
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: people in the military? He specifically said no, I wasn't
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: in the military with the bombs. He said, I was
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: there to disarm bombs. I wasn't there to necessarily plant them,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: though I knew how. And I'm like, who did you kill? Yeah,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: won't answer me. And finally he said, you know what,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: it's not important. He said, if you're smart, you'll figure
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: it out one day.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Oh man.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: He said that a few times to me. He alluded
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: to things, and he's like, you know what, if you're
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: so fucking smart, you'll figure it out.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, this is my last question.
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: I don't know why I said it like that, as
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: if there's a line of other people waiting to ask questions,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: do you have or have you tried to take any
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: of this to the authorities.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Oh so this has been an ongoing battle. Yes, tell
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: my experience with the police, you know, I and I'm
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: back the blue type person. You know. I believe we
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: have police for a reason. It's just they don't necessarily
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: do what they're supposed to do. So in eighty two,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: when all of this was starting, my dad, I tell you,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: that was such a horrible year. He would be like
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: literally just beating the shit out of my mom. I'd
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: call the cops. They didn't need the address, they knew
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: where to go. Cop would show up and be like,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: knock it off. Whatever's going on there, knock it off.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: So so many times through my life I had to intervene,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: and that was that was the gist of it. So
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a good experience then. And then when
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I when he first admitted this, when he was dying
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: and he said this, and I mean I'm telling you,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: my hair stood straight up, and I was like, okay,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: I got to start putting this together. I reached out.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I had first reached out to the niece of the
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: three victims that I was talking about, and I wanted
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: to tell her what I was working on and that
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is accurate. So we had we
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: had a pretty long conversation, and I wanted to, in
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: my own way, give her some power back. And I said,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: what do you want me to do with this information?
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: And she told me, she said, please, please please, if
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: you one hundred percent feel that your dad did this,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: you need to call the Arlington Heights Police Department, which
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: is Arlington Heights, Illinois. So apparently I've seen this on
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: a few documentaries. They have a tailand All task Force.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: So I hung up the phone with her, and I
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: have the dates and the times, and I want to
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: say it was like two thirteen in the afternoon. I
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: hung up the phone with her, and at two twenty one,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I called the Arlington Heights Police So, you know, like
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: seven eight minutes later, I'm on the phone with them,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: right call their non emergency number, talk to a gentleman, said,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: you know, I've got some information I want to share.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: It's about the Tailant all murders. Do you have a
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: tailand All Task Force? He's like Thailand All Murders we
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: haven't had anything to do with though. Man, it's got
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: to be what maybe twenty years ago, we haven't had
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: anything with those. And I said, oh, I said, I
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: just watched a documentary and they said, you guys have
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: an active task force for the tailant. All Nope, nope,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: we don't.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Geez.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: So at that point, then my heart is breaking even
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: more because I just got off the phone with this
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: woman who is crying to me about how her whole
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: family was destroyed because of what my father did. And
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: then she's the one telling me call Arlington Heights. I'm
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: calling them and they don't even have a task force.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: So my heart's breaking more for her because she's got
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: her faith in like they're going to do something, They're
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: going to solve this. So this guy is like, no,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: but I can put you in touch with the detective,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: you know. So he puts me to this guy's Orlando,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I'll say his last name, Detective Orlando, and Arlington Heights
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: puts me to his voicemail. I leave him a message
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: and I'm trying to not sound like a nutcase because
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I know this can come across the way. And that
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: is why I wrote the book, was because I could
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: have it in writing first, you know what I mean.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: So it's not coming across like some lunatic who just
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: got out of an asylum. So I left him this message.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, I've got information about this.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Can you please call me back? Never heard anything, So
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: I gave the guy forty eight hours. I'm like an investigator.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, you got forty eight hours. I'm thinking,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: found a direct number for him. Called him again. This
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: time I think he saw it was me and put
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: me into voicemail.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Jeez.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Finally, a week later, I get a call from an
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: officer and I want to say his last name is
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Dudek d u d e K. He calls me and
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: you can see him on the phone practically like going
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: cuckoo because I'm telling him the story and he's like, well,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: you know, do you have a timeline or anything. I said,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I would put it together for you. I am writing
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: this right now.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: So I called a friend of mine, Kelly in Chicago.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: She's a criminal defense attorney, and I said, Kelly, this
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: is what's going on, which she knew what was going on,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: and I said, I need to come up with something
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: I can give the police because I need to give
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: them a timeline. I need to give them something. So
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: she's working on something, and in the meantime, I had
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: worked on the first draft of the book, sent it
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: to her and she says, you know what, f it,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Just send them the whole book because every page of
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: what you've written is evidence. She goes, you can't really
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: extract anything out of this to send them. She said,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: send them the whole thing. Never heard a peep.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: Geez.
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they can't even run it through Adobe and have
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: it read it to them.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: They called me. I would I would put the audible
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: book on for them, you know what I mean. I
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: would send them the audible book if they don't want
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: to read it. And you know, it's just, it's all
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: just so sad. I know that it was a long
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: time ago. People died, and people's lives are still a affected.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was a long time ago. But there
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: were mothers who.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Dieds Those children are younger, Those children who lost their
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: mother then are way younger than I am. Yeah, you know,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: it's just it's devastating. But one good thing that has
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: come about was through connections I have. I was able
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: to talk with a woman named Helen Jensen. And Helen
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Jensen was the nurse who on the second day of
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: the deaths was the one who said it's got to
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: be the tile and all. Oh yeah, she figured it out,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: like right now, she figured it out. And that changed
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: the trajectory. And for a woman in nineteen eighty two
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: to be that bold and to stand up like people
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: were going against her being like you're crazy, it's not
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: the tile and all, She's like, it's the tile in all.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: So anyway, she's eighty eight now and I had the
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: opportunity to talk to her actually twice this last week,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: and I gave her the rundown for my story and
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: she told me, she said, I've heard every theory about this,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: and she said, yours makes the most sense. And she said,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I'm eighty eight years old, and now I feel like
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: i can put this to bed.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: I mean that's something that is I praise yea her.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, she was integral in this. They would not
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: have figured out it was the title and all if
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for her. For I mean, who knows how
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: long it would have taken.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean I agree with her after reading
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: this book. I think there's not really any question that
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: you're right about this. Yeah, and I think everyone should
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: read this book. It's a very interesting read. I again
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: think it would make a fantastic movie.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: And thank you.
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: I thank you so much for doing the pod. Do
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: you have any final thoughts, anything I left out that
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: you want to address.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: No. The biggest thing is you know the book is
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: on Amazon, and that's great. You know, I would love
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: everybody in the world to buy it. But if anybody
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: has any information for me. I don't do social media
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: very well, but I just started a Facebook page and
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I know it's Facebook, but it's Joseph Chibelli. My pictures
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: on there, the cover of the book, folks on there.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just if anybody is reading this, if anybody has
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: any information about anything, because there are more crimes my
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: father was involved with, please reach out to me. Yes,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: obviously I want you to buy the book. But even
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: if you didn't buy the book and you know something,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: please please please reach out to me.
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: Everyone do that. Yeah, I guess that that was one
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: question I didn't ask. You keep mentioning other crimes, do
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: you think like major crimes, like crimes people know about,
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: or just.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Well one one and it's it's you know, I'm my
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: brother and I. Now we didn't get along for years.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: My father had put a wedge between us, definitely, but
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: we're kind of getting onto the same page now and
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: pretty much on a conversation one day at the same time,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: we're like, do you think he was involved in dot
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: dot dot? And we're like, oh, f yes, wow. So yeah,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: there are some other crimes that I want to address
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: as well that work that are not I don't want
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: to say they're not big because somebody died. Sure, they're
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: not national news per se. But yet there was somebody
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: who died with this and it's just been swept under
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: the rug for forty years, and we're working on those
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: right now while we're compiling something else. So yeah, there's
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: more to come.
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: Well, I look forward to reading that. And Joseph, thank
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: you so much again for doing the podcast.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you, This was great. This was great, Thank you.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: And hey, that was our episode. Thank you all for listening.
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: If you want to read the Thailand All Murders, A
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: father's confession to his son, it's available on Amazon. We'll
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: link to it in the show notes. As for me,
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: just a reminder we have a bunch of new Patreon
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: levels up now, including some that are only available until
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: about mid March. If you want to help keep the
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: podcast and the network afloat and get a bunch of
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: cool extra stuff in the process, sign up at patreon
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: dot com slash on pops and thanks everybody, We love you.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: About a natatata anadadadaab aaabb aabaa aabab AaB