Latest / Almost Famous Enough / ep16 Jessica Lemmon is entertained

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ep16 Jessica Lemmon is entertained · Almost Famous Enough

• 0:24
  alexi: This is Alexi.
• 0:26
  alexi: We just wanted to jump on here and let everyone know that this is the end of season one,
• 0:30
  Glen Erickson: It is been a great first season.
• 0:31
  Glen Erickson: Some great friends, some guests, and lots of learning in our first trip around the block, podcasting, and we're gonna take a little break to get things ready for season two.
• 0:40
  alexi: but this isn't a dead stop for us.
• 0:42
  alexi: Stay tuned for a few podcast shorts with my dad and I before the beginning of our second season.
• 0:47
  alexi: I.
• 0:47
  Glen Erickson: Podcast shorts, mini, mini episodes, mini episodes, mini shorts,
• 0:52
  alexi: Podcast, mini, short, sos, et cetera.
• 0:57
  Glen Erickson: short episodes.
• 0:57
  Glen Erickson: So thank you for all your support.
• 0:59
  Glen Erickson: It's been super fun and meaningful, and we're really excited to keep it going in season two.
• 1:04
  Glen Erickson: So we're gonna see you very soon.
• 1:06
  Glen Erickson: Thank you.
• 1:07
  alexi: Bye.
• 1:08
  Glen Erickson: Bye.
• 1:11
  The past few years have been the most challenging and rewarding for me in my recent day job, career aspirations, challenging and rewarding.
• 1:21
  When getting asked the cliche, how's the job question?
• 1:25
  During frequent smalltalk encounters, I developed a templated answer of, it's good.
• 1:30
  It's hard, but it's good.
• 1:33
  And that seemed to bother some people I knew.
• 1:35
  Why do I need to say it's hard?
• 1:37
  Well, because the truth is it was challenging and rewarding, good and hard.
• 1:45
  The truth isn't always comfortable, and I guess not what we are always prepared to hear.
• 1:50
  Jessica Lemmon has built a career from her youthful, wide-eyed aspirations.
• 1:55
  Through the mountainous rise and fall hard knocks of opportunity sought out, given and taken away.
• 2:02
  As founder and CEO of Lemmon Entertainment, she translated early success with artist management and event production into career shaping opportunities with the Lemmon stage at the Van's Warp Tour Live Nation, the Junos Awards, the Great Cup, and many, many more.
• 2:18
  And for every impressive initiative and achievement that she shared, Jessica had the vulnerability to open the book on how ageism, sexism, jealousy, and insecurity presented equally significant challenges and roadblocks to her career.
• 2:35
  If you're interested in real stories, not stereotypes, the rewards always come with challenges.
• 2:42
  When you tell your story, it will likely have been good, hard.
• 2:47
  But good.
• 2:48
  And if you're lucky, when you tell that story, you might find it still wrapped in beautiful optimism and remnants of wide-eyed aspirations for what you love to do.
• 2:59
  My name is Glen Erickson.
• 3:00
  This is Almost Famous Enough.
• 3:02
  Thanks for spending your time with us.
• 3:04
  This is Jessica Lemmon.
• 3:19
  Jess Lemmon: Alright,
• 3:20
  Glen Erickson: You good?
• 3:20
  Glen Erickson: Are we good?
• 3:22
  Jess Lemmon: we are all set.
• 3:23
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 3:24
  Glen Erickson: Jessica Lemmon, CEO, and founder of Lemmon Entertainment.
• 3:28
  Glen Erickson: But what I'm actually immediately happy about is I just realized your little name tag on our recording platform says Jess Lemmon, which just makes me really happy.
• 3:37
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I always called you Jess and I'm like, we are in a way reconnecting and.
• 3:43
  Glen Erickson: I'm one.
• 3:43
  Glen Erickson: It's one of those things that I'll often ask somebody, do I still get to call you Jess?
• 3:47
  Glen Erickson: if we, if we haven't like, talked on a regular basis for like 10 years or whatever it was.
• 3:52
  Glen Erickson: So, if I call you Jess, I'm assuming then it's okay.
• 3:55
  Glen Erickson: Partway
• 3:55
  Jess Lemmon: is definitely okay.
• 3:57
  Jess Lemmon: And yeah, I think I, until you bring it up, I forgot that.
• 4:01
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah, you did always call me Jess, but maybe that's why I always felt just like a connection to you is you just went, went there right away.
• 4:09
  Jess Lemmon: I've never liked Jessica.
• 4:10
  Jess Lemmon: I tend, most people call me Lemmon these days
• 4:13
  Glen Erickson: But it's always been just for me.
• 4:15
  Glen Erickson: You're right.
• 4:16
  Glen Erickson: and yeah, I always go right to it, so Jess, you are president, founder, CEO, founder Lemmon Entertainment, which has a lot of other factions.
• 4:24
  Glen Erickson: I want to talk about all of that in a quick second.
• 4:27
  Glen Erickson: but since you just sort of identified that we go way back and we have this very, we've always had this real ease of friendship and relationship, which I appreciated.
• 4:36
  Glen Erickson: we might as well just like have fun and get that.
• 4:38
  Glen Erickson: Out of the way and let everybody listen to us.
• 4:41
  Glen Erickson: Reconnect for a second.
• 4:42
  Glen Erickson: I feel like the last time we hung out was 2013.
• 4:46
  Glen Erickson: I think I've seen you since then, but think the last time we hung out was 2013.
• 4:51
  Glen Erickson: I think when I think of you Jess, there's two things that stick out in my head.
• 4:55
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 4:55
  Glen Erickson: I'm gonna tell you both of them.
• 4:57
  Glen Erickson: The first one is, the last time I saw you, I think it's 2013 North by Northeast in Toronto.
• 5:02
  Glen Erickson: You had moved there, been there for a little bit.
• 5:05
  Glen Erickson: I'm pretty sure that was the time this happened, but, I connected with you.
• 5:08
  Glen Erickson: I said I'm in town for the festival like I always did when I came out.
• 5:12
  Glen Erickson: you have any time to hang out?
• 5:14
  Glen Erickson: And you of course did, but you're always super busy'cause you make you, you were getting your foot in the door back then
• 5:20
  Jess Lemmon: That's right.
• 5:21
  Glen Erickson: of things in Toronto and North by Northeast was one of the big.
• 5:25
  Glen Erickson: conferences in, in the country.
• 5:27
  Glen Erickson: and that night we wanted to go see some people at, shoot, I can't remember.
• 5:33
  Glen Erickson: It wasn't the Great Hall, it was the big music hall there?
• 5:37
  Glen Erickson: It doesn't matter.
• 5:37
  Glen Erickson: That part doesn't matter.
• 5:38
  Glen Erickson: But you did take me and you're like, we're gonna go Edwin, from I Mother Earth had a bar.
• 5:44
  Jess Lemmon: Oh my
• 5:45
  Glen Erickson: you're
• 5:45
  Jess Lemmon: goodness.
• 5:45
  Glen Erickson: we're going
• 5:46
  Jess Lemmon: Yes.
• 5:46
  Jess Lemmon: That,
• 5:47
  Glen Erickson: go to Edwin's Bar.
• 5:49
  Jess Lemmon: yeah.
• 5:49
  Jess Lemmon: I think
• 5:50
  Glen Erickson: like all rock and
• 5:51
  Jess Lemmon: something, yes.
• 5:52
  Glen Erickson: Was it And it had like the cutouts in the elevated cutouts in the wall of dancing for dancing girls in them and stuff.
• 6:00
  Glen Erickson: It was like kind of a trippy bar.
• 6:02
  Glen Erickson: Like I was like holy shit.
• 6:03
  Glen Erickson: It felt like more,'cause this happens sometimes, but that's where I was like Toronto trying to be New York.
• 6:09
  Glen Erickson: That's like that bar felt like Toronto trying
• 6:11
  Jess Lemmon: Absolutely did.
• 6:12
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah, that's long gone.
• 6:13
  Jess Lemmon: I forgot all about that place.
• 6:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 6:15
  Glen Erickson: Well this is what's fun about going down memory lane is
• 6:17
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah,
• 6:18
  Glen Erickson: things you totally forgot.
• 6:20
  Glen Erickson: And so like that's one of'em.
• 6:21
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I thought that was hilarious and I just had fun'cause we were like cab hopping around the city.
• 6:26
  Glen Erickson: And that's like my favorite thing at the festivals in Toronto is to like just cab hop to as many things as you can.
• 6:32
  Glen Erickson: And you were always real fun on those.
• 6:34
  Glen Erickson: But the other thing that stands out to me about you, that's always been one of my favorite memories is all the way back to, I think it might've been January, 2010, my band, the Wheat Pool, had released our second record Hunter Ontario in the fall of 2009 and we were gonna record our second video for it.
• 6:53
  Glen Erickson: and we were recording that video and my friend Greg came out from Vancouver and there was fresh snow all over the place.
• 7:01
  Glen Erickson: And we had this concept of like one of the brothers in the band, uh,'cause we were like doing all the, you know, the somber, solemn walking in black and white.
• 7:09
  Glen Erickson: And, and then you figure out towards the end it's like this thing where he was actually dead.
• 7:13
  Glen Erickson: It's almost, you know, it's kind of this like, uh, because we had like the little
• 7:17
  Jess Lemmon: I think it was the first funeral I ever been to.
• 7:22
  Glen Erickson: Well.
• 7:22
  Glen Erickson: I just remember being like, I need someone who is gonna stand out in a black and white film.
• 7:28
  Glen Erickson: I need like a young woman to be like, as if it was the, the female partner left behind kind of person.
• 7:35
  Glen Erickson: And you had always stuck out to me.
• 7:38
  Glen Erickson: And I knew you.
• 7:39
  Glen Erickson: I didn't know you terribly well, I don't think.
• 7:41
  Glen Erickson: But had like a whole, but you had a whole bunch of photos.
• 7:45
  Glen Erickson: You went and you would go and do, I think photo shoots with your friend and you were so photogenic.
• 7:49
  Glen Erickson: And I'm like, this is the right person.
• 7:51
  Glen Erickson: And you were more than willing.
• 7:52
  Glen Erickson: And here's my favorite thing about that, not that we did a video and I'm taking this moment to be able to tell everybody about my music video from 16 years ago.
• 8:01
  Glen Erickson: Is that, you remember?
• 8:03
  Glen Erickson: They've torn it down now.
• 8:04
  Glen Erickson: I had, we had you walk in that old hotel
• 8:07
  Jess Lemmon: at some, yeah.
• 8:07
  Jess Lemmon: Motel.
• 8:08
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 8:09
  Jess Lemmon: White.
• 8:09
  Jess Lemmon: My.
• 8:10
  Glen Erickson: And you were wearing like practically stilettos through the snow.
• 8:14
  Glen Erickson: You were very graceful by the way.
• 8:16
  Glen Erickson: you had to keep doing this slow walk over and over and over for us.
• 8:19
  Glen Erickson: But then Greg asked if you can produce a tier and in like minus 20 winter in Edmonton and you're, you did, you produced a tear us in minus 20 weather.
• 8:33
  Glen Erickson: got the closeup.
• 8:34
  Glen Erickson: It's in the
• 8:34
  Jess Lemmon: It was definitely crying for the cold, not good acting skills, I'll tell you.
• 8:38
  Glen Erickson: Well, maybe a combination, but that's my other seminal memory of, of Jessica Lemmon in my life.
• 8:45
  Jess Lemmon: That is so funny.
• 8:46
  Jess Lemmon: I think one of my first, and I wouldn't have even called it that at the time, um, anxiety attacks, was finding wardrobe for that video shoot.
• 8:56
  Jess Lemmon: I had nothing.
• 8:57
  Jess Lemmon: I had absolutely nothing.
• 8:59
  Jess Lemmon: So whatever I ended up putting together was yes, stress me out more than you, you would've ever known.
• 9:05
  Glen Erickson: Well now everybody listening who's like, I gotta know what the wardrobe choice ended up being.
• 9:10
  Glen Erickson: The song is called Lefty
• 9:11
  Jess Lemmon: Yep.
• 9:12
  Glen Erickson: Wheat Pool, and I am literally unsure if it's actually even on YouTube still.
• 9:18
  Glen Erickson: It probably
• 9:19
  Jess Lemmon: Well, I'm definitely gonna,
• 9:20
  Glen Erickson: to find it.
• 9:21
  Jess Lemmon: after this, I, you're right.
• 9:22
  Glen Erickson: gonna too.
• 9:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 9:24
  Jess Lemmon: We did not know each other very well at all.
• 9:27
  Jess Lemmon: It was at a time that I was so interested in the music scene of Edmonton, but I was very green.
• 9:35
  Jess Lemmon: I lived in rural Alberta at the time myself, so I didn't have a lot of connections, through Edmonton.
• 9:41
  Jess Lemmon: But the, the girl in the photo shoot that you referenced was actually the first artist I ever managed, and she begged me to be her manager.
• 9:50
  Jess Lemmon: I, by no means thought I was qualified.
• 9:53
  Jess Lemmon: However, I took a step back and thought, you know, I know more than she does, so I guess why not?
• 10:01
  Jess Lemmon: Why wouldn't this work?
• 10:02
  Jess Lemmon: So, When that relationship started, it was a organic way for me to open up some doors in the Edmonton music scene.
• 10:10
  Jess Lemmon: and Steve Derpack in Edmonton, he was the biggest Wheat Pool fan.
• 10:15
  Jess Lemmon: I think he suggested, uh, your music to me, and I did.
• 10:18
  Jess Lemmon: I became a very, very big Wheat Pool fan.
• 10:21
  Jess Lemmon: After that.
• 10:22
  Jess Lemmon: Probably went to every one of your shows and through that ended up connecting and, and getting to meet you.
• 10:28
  Jess Lemmon: And I do remember early on just being very.
• 10:32
  Jess Lemmon: admired you a lot for not only the work that you did as a guitarist in the band, but you had, uh, shameless, the label going at the time.
• 10:41
  Jess Lemmon: It was shameless, right?
• 10:43
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 10:44
  Jess Lemmon: Um, and you were actively, um, involved in other things in the music scene and I just, yeah, I saw you doing so much and it just was very inspiring, um, to me at that, that stage in my journey.
• 10:57
  Glen Erickson: Well, I guess the podcast is over.
• 10:58
  Glen Erickson: That's all I needed you to say and tell everybody, toot my horn.
• 11:02
  Glen Erickson: I'm just kidding.
• 11:03
  Glen Erickson: That's very sweet of you, Jessica.
• 11:05
  Glen Erickson: I appreciate it.
• 11:05
  Glen Erickson: And yeah, Steve has been a great fan and supporter all along and um, it's nice hearing a story that he was influencing other people, like, who doesn't want to hear that too?
• 11:14
  Glen Erickson: But I, I remember also, like you said, you started getting involved.
• 11:18
  Glen Erickson: So I remember encountering you, I think, through Alberta music and you being involved in some events and working with them, if I'm not wrong at the time as well.
• 11:26
  Glen Erickson: So I kinda knew you.
• 11:28
  Glen Erickson: We would talk, we would see things.
• 11:29
  Glen Erickson: And so this is a great place to start the conversation because you have this company that I've watched grow over this time.
• 11:37
  Glen Erickson: And you said like, I was just like a young person from rural Alberta, you know, in the city.
• 11:42
  Glen Erickson: Maybe I knew a little more about some music than the other person.
• 11:45
  Glen Erickson: And you started plugging yourself in to learn things.
• 11:48
  Glen Erickson: You also had a really cool young punk rock chic look about you with your black hair.
• 11:54
  Glen Erickson: And I just thought you, like, you fit the industry really well.
• 11:57
  Glen Erickson: And then I probably subconsciously did the stupid, privileged white male in the business thing where I just assumed is gonna make me sound terrible that because I really, I've always really liked you and respected you, and yet I probably still made assumptions like you were just sort of hanging around for the couple of different areas that you liked in the, in the business.
• 12:17
  Glen Erickson: Do you know what I mean?
• 12:17
  Glen Erickson: because if you weren't on the stage playing music, there weren't a lot of women on the other side of it.
• 12:24
  Jess Lemmon: No, especially, there was maybe one woman on the other side of it in Edmonton at that time, and her name was, is Shauna.
• 12:31
  Jess Lemmon: She's still very active, in the live music scene and because of her, I actually felt.
• 12:38
  Jess Lemmon: There was, I, I could, there was no opportunity for me, uh, at that time.
• 12:43
  Jess Lemmon: So I, I appreciate you kind of acknowledging that.
• 12:46
  Jess Lemmon: And for me, it took till I was in my late.
• 12:49
  Jess Lemmon: Probably, actually early to mid thirties before I was able to look back on it and see how very difficult it was being a woman in this space and also, in my mid thirties started to feel very sad for, for old, younger, me who came into this industry so bright-eyed, so passionate, and with so much care.
• 13:16
  Jess Lemmon: and my only intention was to help everyone within it and do the best work possible.
• 13:23
  Jess Lemmon: I, I grew up an honors student in school.
• 13:27
  Jess Lemmon: My parents thought I was going to, um, university to become a doctor or a, or a lawyer.
• 13:32
  Jess Lemmon: Um, but I found music very early on.
• 13:35
  Jess Lemmon: as a safe space for me, specifically, the live music, uh, punk rock community in Edmonton was the safest space that I had in my life, and that's what drove me into the music business.
• 13:47
  Jess Lemmon: But I didn't have much of an education on what I could actually do in the music business.
• 13:51
  Jess Lemmon: So the first, the, the only opportunities that I, I, or the thing that I wanted to be was on stage with the laminate, the crew laminate.
• 14:01
  Jess Lemmon: That was something that drove me and I didn't really know what that meant.
• 14:05
  Jess Lemmon: And, let alone the business side.
• 14:06
  Jess Lemmon: So at an early age, 16, 17, 18, I promoted for my friends' bands.
• 14:11
  Jess Lemmon: I helped set, send out their demos to radio stations.
• 14:13
  Jess Lemmon: I sold merchant shows.
• 14:15
  Jess Lemmon: I did anything and everything just to be around the music, not even at that time thinking about a career in that space.
• 14:22
  Jess Lemmon: But it was, again, my safe space.
• 14:25
  Jess Lemmon: And I loved the, the people that were within it.
• 14:29
  Jess Lemmon: And unfortunately, the minute I started to work or formalize or try to have a presence in the music community as an artist manager, it got pretty dark, pretty fast in the way that I was just constantly battling judgments.
• 14:48
  Jess Lemmon: And even more than that.
• 14:50
  Jess Lemmon: a really good example actually of of, of what, um, I'm sure a lot of women, hopefully not as much today, but dealt with, is I worked my ass off for Live Nation, um, as a runner.
• 15:03
  Jess Lemmon: For those listeners that don't know, a runner will usually like pick up artists from the airport, transport to their hotels, help with groceries.
• 15:10
  Jess Lemmon: and I got asked to do a short tour, um, with Hadley, a band at the time that was doing an Alberta tour.
• 15:18
  Jess Lemmon: And for me this was, oh my God, a dream come true.
• 15:20
  Jess Lemmon: I'm doing a small tour.
• 15:22
  Jess Lemmon: Uh, I picked up the rental vehicle.
• 15:24
  Jess Lemmon: I picked up the promoter and we went to, to do our first show.
• 15:28
  Jess Lemmon: I made sure everything was perfect for that, for that event.
• 15:32
  Jess Lemmon: I was a production assistant.
• 15:33
  Jess Lemmon: And yet at, I never went on the bus with the band.
• 15:38
  Jess Lemmon: I didn't go into dressing rooms.
• 15:39
  Jess Lemmon: For me, like being professional was the most important.
• 15:42
  Jess Lemmon: And you brought it up.
• 15:42
  Jess Lemmon: I had a look.
• 15:43
  Jess Lemmon: To me, I was, I was young, I was a, a, a girl that loved music.
• 15:47
  Jess Lemmon: I got my first tattoo at 18, but I, every time I was on a music job, I was there to do a very good job.
• 15:55
  Jess Lemmon: And at the end of that tour, I drove the promoter rep back to the, uh, airport and he looked over at me and said, I will never hire you again.
• 16:04
  Jess Lemmon: You are too distracting for the crew and for me, that was.
• 16:08
  Glen Erickson: Wow.
• 16:09
  Jess Lemmon: The harshest thing I could ever hear because I thought my doors were opening.
• 16:13
  Jess Lemmon: I was like, I went from being a one-off show runner in Edmonton to being on my first tour.
• 16:18
  Jess Lemmon: I was so proud of the job I did, the problems I solved.
• 16:22
  Jess Lemmon: I didn't talk to any of the crew.
• 16:24
  Jess Lemmon: I didn't do anything, but I did reject this promoter rep who wanted to share a bed with me on that tour.
• 16:31
  Jess Lemmon: And so I could only assume that the attention I did get from an all male crew that was on that tour to him was enough that he, he didn't like it.
• 16:39
  Jess Lemmon: And so that was the beginning, very early beginning of what was something I faced again and again of just opportunities being closed for me simply because of control others had, but the reputation that would start to get back to me about myself.
• 16:59
  Jess Lemmon: was something I had to battle for a very long time.
• 17:03
  Jess Lemmon: Still do.
• 17:04
  Glen Erickson: Well, well I appreciate you telling that story'cause I was gonna see if there was an example when you said things got dark really fast.
• 17:12
  Glen Erickson: And that is an incredible example.
• 17:14
  Glen Erickson: To be honest, I thought it might be going a different direction when you said Headley and,
• 17:19
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 17:19
  Glen Erickson: and the fiasco that blew up with lead singer Jacob
• 17:22
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 17:23
  Glen Erickson: uh, his indiscretions.
• 17:25
  Jess Lemmon: Mm-hmm.
• 17:25
  Glen Erickson: but also not surprising, unfortunately, you know,
• 17:29
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Jess Lemmon: Got lots of opinions around that one too.
• 17:33
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, and this is just the thing is, um, you obviously fit in really well.
• 17:40
  Glen Erickson: I had felt from the first times I met you, you fit in well because of that enthusiasm and that passion you had good social EQ and charm and all things that are important in this business sometimes as much as the know-how.
• 17:56
  Jess Lemmon: Absolutely.
• 17:57
  Glen Erickson: but you were obviously like that's a very early stage to get the message that it's only going as far as you look and, and as far as whatever we, judge on the package, so I mean that, that leads to a few things'cause I'm sure that might be a thread through some of these things in your story.
• 18:17
  Glen Erickson: So,'cause you're in Edmonton and you're doing those things and then you move to Toronto and I knew like, and again this is a move that artists make, right?
• 18:25
  Glen Erickson: To try to make it so I remember always thinking, is Jess doing?
• 18:30
  Glen Erickson: Like, is she going to Toronto just'cause she's bored of Edmonton or she, or is there real opportunities?
• 18:36
  Glen Erickson: But I, I didn't have as much contact with you anymore to know what that move was.
• 18:40
  Glen Erickson: So all I've seen in the larger arc of your career just was you getting involved big time in a lot of different areas.
• 18:47
  Glen Erickson: You moving to Toronto with the same bright-eyed goals and aspirations where I've usually seen everybody go there, get crushed and a half times outta 10.
• 18:56
  Glen Erickson: and then I see, I don't even know how many years you can tell me down the road where all of a sudden a Lemmon stage on the Vans Warped tour.
• 19:05
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 19:06
  Jess Lemmon: Hell yeah.
• 19:06
  Glen Erickson: like, holy shit, how does, how did she land that, is that literally your stage named after you?
• 19:13
  Glen Erickson: And then I'm like, well, of course it is.
• 19:15
  Glen Erickson: and then starting to see that hang around in some different areas, the name pop up more and more, start to see you and the things you're putting out there as Lemmon entertainment and continue to see a trajectory of what I thought was going with a skill in just sort of production management and building become like so many more things along the way, which I have found so incredible and so inspiring.
• 19:38
  Glen Erickson: And so let's just keep going from right there.
• 19:41
  Glen Erickson: And tell me about the move to Toronto and what
• 19:45
  Jess Lemmon: I want to, this is exciting for me actually, as I haven't revisited, but the reason I went to Toronto was where I wanted to go was Vancouver, but similar to seeing a lot of people move to Toronto and get spit back out, I had seen a lot of people, um, that had moved to Vancouver and it was too expensive and they came back to Edmonton.
• 20:04
  Jess Lemmon: At that time of my life, I, well, first I noticed there was nowhere for me to go in the music industry in Edmonton.
• 20:11
  Jess Lemmon: It was, there was a smaller, and I think live, I was very drawn to live and at that time I was doing some work, running, uh, working on local music festivals, getting my hand in absolutely everything.
• 20:22
  Jess Lemmon: But I respected anybody.
• 20:24
  Jess Lemmon: That was ahead of me, working in the jobs that I wanted to have, such as being able to run a show.
• 20:30
  Jess Lemmon: and I, unless those people were gonna literally have a jamer and, and pass, there was not, there was no opportunity for me.
• 20:38
  Jess Lemmon: So Toronto I went to, I didn't know anybody except for, um, one management company.
• 20:45
  Jess Lemmon: 'cause at that time I had already done a little bit of touring, um, with Our Lady Peace and I knew that Vancouver looked like a dead end.
• 20:54
  Jess Lemmon: I knew the music industry was, was primarily in Toronto, so I just, I did it.
• 20:59
  Jess Lemmon: I packed up, I had a little, um, hatchback car, packed it up and, and went with really no plan other than I had saved up enough money that I would not work for three months so that I could volunteer at both Canadian Music Week and the Juno Awards.
• 21:13
  Jess Lemmon: I did think in the move to Toronto that I would be bartending for about three years.
• 21:19
  Jess Lemmon: While I used my spare time to get to know the industry there, I was fully prepared to have about a three year, journey into the industry because that's what it took at Edmonton.
• 21:29
  Jess Lemmon: I had to really prove myself to even.
• 21:32
  Jess Lemmon: Be welcomed in, in a paid position.
• 21:35
  Jess Lemmon: Um, there, so what ended up happening though, is I did those volunteer roles and very quickly realized that all of the skills that I developed in Edmonton were, I was rising to the top in Toronto.
• 21:48
  Jess Lemmon: So everybody would promote me to like the supervisor of volunteers.
• 21:52
  Jess Lemmon: I was offered three jobs after Canadian Music Week, um, one as an assistant at a, at the Tragically Hips Management Company.
• 22:01
  Jess Lemmon: Um, one as a promoter rep for a EDM promoter and one as a tour manager for a pop artist.
• 22:07
  Jess Lemmon: And again, I was in shock.
• 22:10
  Jess Lemmon: I was so happy, couldn't believe the opportunities that I had only dreamed of having.
• 22:15
  Jess Lemmon: And then I was just stressed out about which one do I take?
• 22:18
  Jess Lemmon: and at that point in my life, I was, again, back to being inspired by someone like you that did I.
• 22:24
  Jess Lemmon: Many things.
• 22:25
  Jess Lemmon: I figured out how to do them all.
• 22:26
  Jess Lemmon: And I did, I took all three jobs and that gave me the first, yeah, that was, um, that was a really exciting period in the music business for me because I was now getting into the music business.
• 22:42
  Jess Lemmon: Everybody in Edmonton told me I would fail.
• 22:45
  Jess Lemmon: They, the people that I had around me in Edmonton, in the music space, that I really thought were supportive, as soon as they found out I was going to Toronto, they all were just like, you're gonna be small fish in a big pond, good luck.
• 22:57
  Jess Lemmon: Like there wasn't support.
• 22:58
  Jess Lemmon: And that just drove me even harder to go prove, prove everybody wrong.
• 23:04
  Jess Lemmon: But, uh, sadly that is a pattern that that followed me throughout.
• 23:07
  Jess Lemmon: But at that, yeah, that moment in Toronto was so exciting.
• 23:10
  Jess Lemmon: I was exposed to so much, but it was also the first time I was entering the music business.
• 23:15
  Jess Lemmon: Everybody also warned me about, about being.
• 23:17
  Jess Lemmon: Not so great.
• 23:19
  Jess Lemmon: and young and naive, I refused to hear that.
• 23:21
  Jess Lemmon: I was like, no, it's awesome.
• 23:22
  Jess Lemmon: I'm gonna make it awesome.
• 23:23
  Jess Lemmon: I love it.
• 23:24
  Jess Lemmon: This is where my heart is.
• 23:25
  Jess Lemmon: But as I started to formalize relationships in these office environments, I was exposed to a lot of business operations that I couldn't agree with.
• 23:37
  Jess Lemmon: My values were against, I think I went into the music business very much with an artist's first perspective because I came up with artists.
• 23:46
  Jess Lemmon: I've always supported artists.
• 23:48
  Jess Lemmon: that's who I ultimately care about.
• 23:51
  Jess Lemmon: I identify with crew and artists and the tour bus much more than than a suit.
• 23:57
  Jess Lemmon: And as I started to get into these environments, I, I was really let down because I, I.
• 24:04
  Jess Lemmon: I started to see that I couldn't learn from anyone above me and I couldn't operate in the ways that, that I was being directed and still, you know, hold the integrity that I have and the care.
• 24:16
  Jess Lemmon: So I quickly, you know, I think I ended up jumping back and doing some, some touring, as I kind of realized, wow, these, these office spaces aren't some place that I wanna be.
• 24:27
  Jess Lemmon: I worked as a freelancer did again, I was still very involved.
• 24:31
  Jess Lemmon: In many different things.
• 24:33
  Jess Lemmon: And another battle I faced early on in my, my story in Toronto was, Jess, you do too many things.
• 24:39
  Jess Lemmon: You're never gonna be successful.
• 24:41
  Jess Lemmon: You have to just stop selling merch or no one's gonna see you as a manager.
• 24:46
  Jess Lemmon: and to a degree, they were, they were right.
• 24:49
  Jess Lemmon: The Toronto market was very different than Edmonton, where it was easy, it was accepted and almost like celebrated when I was doing all of these different things and keeping busy and kind of, it was just the way there.
• 25:00
  Jess Lemmon: Um, in Toronto, you were kind of, you needed an identity and it didn't work what I was doing.
• 25:07
  Jess Lemmon: So I listened to a lot of that advice and started to try to think of, okay, what do I wanna be, what do I wanna become?
• 25:13
  Jess Lemmon: Um, and at that time I kind of put.
• 25:15
  Jess Lemmon: All my focus into being a very good live event producer.
• 25:19
  Jess Lemmon: and then in that time I decided festivals was really where I wanted to be.
• 25:23
  Jess Lemmon: I started applying for opportunities and jobs, and I got offered a job with a EG, to work on their music festivals.
• 25:31
  Jess Lemmon: One summer, the same day I got offered a job with Live Nation to work as a promoter assistant.
• 25:38
  Jess Lemmon: And that I, I've got a few times in my life that I had to choose, and those were,
• 25:43
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 25:43
  Jess Lemmon: were very tough things.
• 25:45
  Jess Lemmon: But I, I went with Live Nation and then that became my first really fully committed role and led to, Lemmon Stage.
• 25:53
  Jess Lemmon: So if you wanna get into where that started, that, that did happen at Live Nation.
• 25:58
  Glen Erickson: From Live Nation.
• 25:59
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 26:00
  Glen Erickson: So, okay, let's take one quick sidebar,
• 26:02
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 26:03
  Glen Erickson: that I'm interested in your perspective since you're very observant and intuitive at the same time.
• 26:08
  Glen Erickson: you had mentioned in there that I wasn't gonna learn from those above me.
• 26:13
  Glen Erickson: And so there is an aspect that's pretty universal.
• 26:17
  Glen Erickson: I think of two things.
• 26:19
  Glen Erickson: One is, in a lot of corporate world, which the music business is actually quite run corporately, in the suits and in the offices.
• 26:28
  Glen Erickson: You know, there's so much, like the music business, I should actually say is so like nobody went to school for that stuff, right?
• 26:35
  Glen Erickson: Like they just mostly got into it.
• 26:37
  Glen Erickson: Some of those people maybe had some marketing degrees and some people had some business degrees at the top, and then they just found their way in at some point.
• 26:44
  Glen Erickson: But a lot of other people just found their way in and
• 26:47
  Jess Lemmon: Yes.
• 26:48
  Glen Erickson: their way up by perseverance and attrition, not by skills or leadership abilities.
• 26:54
  Glen Erickson: And what's so interesting to me is that all the people who had got in that way, how little work and effort has been done by them to change how then, how well you can train others up and take responsibility for it, right?
• 27:09
  Jess Lemmon: Yes.
• 27:11
  Glen Erickson: them.
• 27:11
  Glen Erickson: And I guess I was just wondering if that's accurate in your mind.
• 27:15
  Glen Erickson: I like not making excuses for them, but I feel like imposter syndrome is so rampant as well as a result of actually got trained for this.
• 27:25
  Glen Erickson: And you work your way up and then all of a sudden you have responsibility for things that you don't feel inside you have any business being responsible for.
• 27:32
  Glen Erickson: But if I show any weakness, I'm out because it's also very thin margins in our, in the world.
• 27:39
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 27:39
  Glen Erickson: And that fear also drives the decision of not letting somebody else being threatened someone who could take
• 27:47
  Jess Lemmon: Abs.
• 27:47
  Jess Lemmon: Absolutely.
• 27:48
  Jess Lemmon: And it makes me so happy hearing
• 27:50
  Glen Erickson: that you're a woman, you know?
• 27:53
  Jess Lemmon: Exactly.
• 27:53
  Jess Lemmon: And at the time, again, I didn't think being a woman was holding me back.
• 27:58
  Jess Lemmon: I thought my age was the biggest battle that I was always fighting.
• 28:02
  Jess Lemmon: I was running my mouth to show my education of what I knew, in spaces versus I, I refused.
• 28:09
  Jess Lemmon: I think part of me refused.
• 28:10
  Jess Lemmon: I did grow up with, with artists like Biff Naked and people that were very woman power.
• 28:15
  Jess Lemmon: So I never wanted to admit that the woman thing was a weakness.
• 28:19
  Jess Lemmon: but what you said, and I truly think it is one of the biggest, if not the biggest problems in the music industry right now, is the lack of educated professionals in the leadership roles.
• 28:32
  Jess Lemmon: And, and, and again, the, the power and everything that they've garnered over time.
• 28:36
  Jess Lemmon: A lot of the, the things that I went through and I've seen so many other individuals go through, artists go through, it's not even that the, that there's malicious within it.
• 28:48
  Jess Lemmon: It is just like you said, the being a good bullshitter has been able to get these people further than any work or developed skills.
• 28:56
  Jess Lemmon: And when
• 28:57
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 28:57
  Jess Lemmon: someone like myself comes in very naive, just doing everything the best way I possibly can for them, if I'm doing a great job, I am exposing them.
• 29:08
  Jess Lemmon: And I didn't realize that until much later in, in my career.
• 29:13
  Jess Lemmon: How could I be being treated this way or shut out these ways if I'm only working for them and trying to make them shine and make them more money?
• 29:21
  Jess Lemmon: I was always just trying to look for validation from the, the, those that I was working for.
• 29:27
  Jess Lemmon: Yet I was able to see just how, how much of their day to day was pure bullshit and also just whatever was easiest.
• 29:36
  Jess Lemmon: And I think that's when I chose to, when I, or one thing I'll always remember working in a one management company was there was, it was a business deal that went down.
• 29:47
  Jess Lemmon: Basically it was like one manager whose agent represents his whole roster.
• 29:52
  Jess Lemmon: And it wasn't even a fit for that band.
• 29:54
  Jess Lemmon: Like the, the band itself was one genre.
• 29:57
  Jess Lemmon: I knew the genre that that X agent represented and had a network in.
• 30:03
  Jess Lemmon: And then for the manager, just to give them this artist and not even try to build a strategy for them because it was just like, that stuff was really hard and shocking for me as I made my way up in the industry to be like, wait, where's the strategy that's gonna kill this artist That doesn't help them?
• 30:17
  Jess Lemmon: Like, and I started realizing how these teams, and I feel like I'm going off in a different direction here, but the teams of these artists weren't always working in the best interest for them.
• 30:29
  Jess Lemmon: And yet the artists trust their teams immensely and are giving them all the power.
• 30:35
  Jess Lemmon: And, and yeah, I just, I did, I had a lot of challenges throughout those learnings.
• 30:39
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, okay, so this is great though because I, I always thought it's incredible that you've built what you built in Toronto.
• 30:47
  Glen Erickson: this isn't hyperbole.
• 30:48
  Glen Erickson: I've felt so proud of you though.
• 30:50
  Glen Erickson: I don't have a right.
• 30:51
  Glen Erickson: To pride or whatever, but it's just the feeling I've had of you because I know how hard it is.
• 30:57
  Glen Erickson: How many people, like we said, off to the promised land, so to speak, and get chewed up or spit out, or if there's small fish, big pond, et cetera, et cetera happens, but you have some version of tenacity that didn't let that happen.
• 31:11
  Glen Erickson: Maybe there's pieces of luck like all of us in this business that happened too.
• 31:16
  Glen Erickson: I'm, and it's funny that you said that one of the criticisms was just, you're doing too much because, uh, if I just look at your, you know, like your press work for what Lemmon Entertainment is and that you are, you know, you're also, I mean you're all these things, right?
• 31:34
  Glen Erickson: So you are the, the, the branding company kind of sub company part to that, right?
• 31:41
  Glen Erickson: the Lemmon stage and the pieces that, that kind of stuff is.
• 31:44
  Glen Erickson: so you have all, you have like multiple pieces that you've, and initiatives over the years, which again, from a business perspective, somebody might say, what is the thing that you actually do most of the time might be, but so before we get to what that truth is,'cause I think that's an interesting connector between your past and even the way you're running things now and you just choose to persevere.
• 32:05
  Glen Erickson: So I know that you're, you get this Lemmon stage going.
• 32:09
  Glen Erickson: Lemmon entertainment an actual thing then, or is the stage just like an initiative that's kind of showing promise in your investing time in it?
• 32:18
  Glen Erickson: And what's the connection between that and actually a
• 32:22
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 32:22
  Glen Erickson: had?
• 32:23
  Jess Lemmon: Well, I would tell you I would never, I, one of my first jobs was at Staples Business Depot and I worked in the copy center with a lovely woman who said, Jess, you need, your company needs to be called Lemmon Entertainment.
• 32:36
  Jess Lemmon: And I was like, she's like, Lemmon is just the best word.
• 32:39
  Jess Lemmon: And I was like, gag garbage.
• 32:43
  Jess Lemmon: Never would I ever, also, I've always been somebody who I really am not even doing this podcast is hard for me.
• 32:51
  Jess Lemmon: I don't like being.
• 32:52
  Jess Lemmon: Front face.
• 32:53
  Jess Lemmon: I like to work behind the scenes,
• 32:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 32:54
  Jess Lemmon: and never in my, what I think to put my name on my business.
• 33:00
  Jess Lemmon: But what happened was Lemmon Entertainment was my, in invoicing name.
• 33:05
  Jess Lemmon: I was a freelancer, I was working and I needed to, to have a billing company and I set it up as, as Lemmon Entertainment.
• 33:11
  Jess Lemmon: And it was never supposed to really see the light of day.
• 33:13
  Jess Lemmon: When I worked at, Live Nation, I think it was on my first week, um, I worked for a promoter there who came by my desk one morning and said, he, there was a band from Kitchener Waterloo that he was friends with, and he was like, these band, this band needs to get on Warp Tour.
• 33:30
  Jess Lemmon: Make it happen, was my task for the day.
• 33:32
  Jess Lemmon: So through my discovery of Warp Tour that was coming to Toronto that summer.
• 33:38
  Jess Lemmon: There was no spot for this band to play.
• 33:40
  Jess Lemmon: They were fully booked and there was nothing.
• 33:42
  Jess Lemmon: But I knew from my walk to my desk every day, live Nation owned an SL 100, um, which is a small modular stage from my years of touring with bands and being friends with bands.
• 33:55
  Jess Lemmon: I knew that any band would be willing to play the Warp Tour for free.
• 33:59
  Jess Lemmon: So I was scared of my boss, basically.
• 34:03
  Jess Lemmon: I knew, I was told no from Warp Tour that this band could have a spot.
• 34:06
  Jess Lemmon: So I had to get creative.
• 34:07
  Jess Lemmon: So what I put together and pitched was what if Toronto was the only Canadian stop on the work tour?
• 34:13
  Jess Lemmon: So I pitched to Kevin Lyman.
• 34:15
  Jess Lemmon: what if we had a all Canadian emerging Act stage, um, for your festival here, it's gonna cost you nothing.
• 34:22
  Jess Lemmon: I'm gonna look after everything.
• 34:23
  Jess Lemmon: It's just gonna be there.
• 34:24
  Jess Lemmon: Can it be a part of it?
• 34:25
  Jess Lemmon: And he said, I.
• 34:26
  Jess Lemmon: I don't see why not.
• 34:27
  Jess Lemmon: and there wasn't really room on the festival site for the stage, but I was like, they'll play the lineup.
• 34:31
  Jess Lemmon: The lineup has to wait.
• 34:32
  Jess Lemmon: I, I used to wait in the, the Warp Tour lineup.
• 34:35
  Jess Lemmon: Um, I loved Warp Tour, so I was like, fuck if a band's playing to me while I'm waiting to get in.
• 34:40
  Jess Lemmon: That's, that's amazing.
• 34:41
  Jess Lemmon: And that's what we did.
• 34:42
  Jess Lemmon: We set up a stage to the lineup and, um, when I told my boss, he said, yep, go for it.
• 34:48
  Jess Lemmon: So I, we created, you know, we just started scouting bands.
• 34:52
  Jess Lemmon: I think I had a few in mind right away that deserved this opportunity.
• 34:56
  Jess Lemmon: And we had that emerging, um, stage at the festival.
• 35:00
  Jess Lemmon: Now it was probably two weeks later, uh, someone came out of the, the office from Live Nation Marketing, who I hadn't even worked with at the time.
• 35:08
  Jess Lemmon: And he said, the stage is gonna be in a paper or an ad in the paper this week it needs a name.
• 35:12
  Jess Lemmon: And my boss yelled out, Lemmon Stage, and.
• 35:16
  Jess Lemmon: A logo was created, uh, from the marketing department and suddenly I had a stage.
• 35:21
  Jess Lemmon: And for me, again, this is beyond my wildest dreams coming true.
• 35:26
  Jess Lemmon: This is something it's, it was so true to me of being able to support the punk rock band community that I grew up with to be able to like give a space for 10 artists to play.
• 35:39
  Jess Lemmon: But very quickly, I also experienced some of the worst hate by having the opportunity.
• 35:47
  Jess Lemmon: And I didn't realize that at the time, but I worked in an office where there were other women and it was sadly the woman in the office that I think they couldn't understand.
• 35:56
  Jess Lemmon: I was the new girl.
• 35:57
  Jess Lemmon: I had a stage with my name on it.
• 35:59
  Jess Lemmon: It was a special project and I.
• 36:02
  Jess Lemmon: I just started the bullying, the, the noise, like it was so hard for me.
• 36:07
  Jess Lemmon: And that was, yeah, that was a really challenging time.
• 36:10
  Jess Lemmon: As much as it was really rewarding because I started to
• 36:13
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 36:14
  Jess Lemmon: how like, even being on the same team, it's not always enjoyable.
• 36:18
  Jess Lemmon: So that's summer we got the stage up.
• 36:20
  Jess Lemmon: It was very important to me, to align it with a cause.
• 36:23
  Jess Lemmon: So that was the first project I brought Mental health into the mix.
• 36:27
  Jess Lemmon: We partnered with a local, another local not-for-profit.
• 36:30
  Jess Lemmon: It went off it incredibly and for as long as work tour came back, we had Lemmon stage.
• 36:36
  Jess Lemmon: We ended up doing a couple little tours bringing, uh, the artists down to Buffalo.
• 36:41
  Jess Lemmon: And it was just when social media was getting started and the following and support for Lemmon stage was, was massive.
• 36:49
  Jess Lemmon: So it.
• 36:50
  Jess Lemmon: It just like it worked with zero budget and creative brain, and obviously a hustle of playing all the roles and convincing my friends to get involved.
• 36:59
  Jess Lemmon: Um, that's what really made it happen.
• 37:01
  Jess Lemmon: But that, that is what I learned with, with the artists back in the day.
• 37:05
  Jess Lemmon: Like, so it was easy for me.
• 37:07
  Jess Lemmon: It was so exciting for me.
• 37:08
  Jess Lemmon: And then nine months later I decided Live Nation was not a healthy workplace for me.
• 37:14
  Jess Lemmon: and that's when Lemmon Entertainment was born.
• 37:17
  Jess Lemmon: And it's because of the success of Lemmon Stage that when I was getting a business started, the last thing I had time to think about was, what are we gonna call, what are we gonna call Lemmon entertainment?
• 37:28
  Jess Lemmon: So it was Lemmon Entertainment, it was already my billing name anyways, and that's, uh, I, I decided to start a company where I could control the culture,
• 37:38
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 37:38
  Jess Lemmon: little bit more.
• 37:39
  Jess Lemmon: And yeah, that's when we were founded.
• 37:41
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 37:42
  Glen Erickson: I've been dying to hear that story forever, so I'm so happy to finally hear how the Lemmon stage and all of that got going and where it was born from, and then how it's now connected directly to how you started the company.
• 37:54
  Glen Erickson: So the company obviously boasts.
• 37:57
  Glen Erickson: than just production or live event management.
• 38:00
  Glen Erickson: You talk about like working with artists.
• 38:03
  Glen Erickson: You are, there's lots of different things that you can do if you're good at any version of production or event planning, event management, everything in the fabrication and technical and onsite world, the people that you see always dressed in all black in every area of a crew, right?
• 38:21
  Glen Erickson: Like your knowledge obviously is extensive in that, but then, you know, you're boasting the, the marketing, the strategic side, which only comes with time spent, I think, in this industry to start to know if you have that kind of a mind, how to apply that thinking.
• 38:38
  Glen Erickson: Um, obviously the burgeoning or the exploding of social media as a primary awareness tool in, in promotions and investing in marketing that way.
• 38:51
  Glen Erickson: You know, the people who get it might have some opportunities come quicker, but this is all coming under what you, umbrella of what your growing Lemmon entertainment
• 39:00
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 39:01
  Jess Lemmon: Well,
• 39:01
  Glen Erickson: I'm wondering
• 39:02
  Jess Lemmon: yeah, go ahead.
• 39:03
  Glen Erickson: things came first.
• 39:04
  Glen Erickson: Sorry.
• 39:04
  Jess Lemmon: Yes.
• 39:05
  Jess Lemmon: Well, my, I would say that I was getting the most, I.
• 39:08
  Jess Lemmon: Fulfillment in the live event space.
• 39:12
  Jess Lemmon: Um, and so when Lemmon Entertainment started, I saw it was right when experiential marketing was becoming a thing and big brands were getting involved in music festivals, big brand activations, or, a brand would would launch with a music series in different venues.
• 39:29
  Jess Lemmon: And I was doing a bit of that work during my time at Live Nation and really quickly learned that I was good at it when I wa because I could polish up and speak corporate language or I could speak rock and roll to the audio engineers and get things, um, achieved that way.
• 39:45
  Jess Lemmon: So when Lemmon Entertainment launched, that's what I based it on, working kind of where, where corporate meets live events.
• 39:51
  Jess Lemmon: And I had, you know, a few.
• 39:54
  Jess Lemmon: I, I learned really early how to create more opportunity out of an opportunity.
• 39:59
  Jess Lemmon: So if someone asked me to sell merch, it's like, well, what else do you need help with?
• 40:02
  Jess Lemmon: Or if somebody wanted, um, my help stage managing well, I have a team.
• 40:07
  Jess Lemmon: Like I would just really make myself available.
• 40:10
  Jess Lemmon: Uh, use the relationships that trusted my work and, and try to develop more out of it.
• 40:15
  Jess Lemmon: A big goal that I had when, like, it was so scary to leave Live Nation, my dream was to work at Live Nation.
• 40:21
  Jess Lemmon: I, and I didn't know a lot about, even when I worked at Live Nation, I didn't even know what an agent did.
• 40:26
  Jess Lemmon: Like I never knew much about the music business.
• 40:29
  Jess Lemmon: I just knew Live Nation was the name on all of my concert flyers and tickets that I went to.
• 40:34
  Jess Lemmon: So it was really scary for me to leave what was my dream job.
• 40:38
  Jess Lemmon: So as I created Lemmon Entertainment, it was very important to me to be seen that it wasn't just me anymore.
• 40:45
  Jess Lemmon: I wasn't taking a step back.
• 40:47
  Jess Lemmon: I was taking a step over and I.
• 40:50
  Jess Lemmon: I was still a team.
• 40:51
  Jess Lemmon: I could do whatever Live Nation was doing just at a boutique level.
• 40:55
  Jess Lemmon: And, um, so when, when Lebanon Entertainment was founded, I did, I hired some people, but I started hiring a lot of young people and I wanted to be a mentor that I never had.
• 41:08
  Jess Lemmon: So I partnered with the, the schools in Ontario.
• 41:12
  Jess Lemmon: They would tell me like they would place their students with me.
• 41:15
  Jess Lemmon: and I would let them shadow me on, on live event productions and stuff Very quickly after building, I had an office above the Great Hall in Toronto.
• 41:25
  Jess Lemmon: I had a staff of, I think five people.
• 41:28
  Jess Lemmon: We set up the office we were at.
• 41:31
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah, we were doing all sorts of stuff and.
• 41:33
  Jess Lemmon: Out of nowhere.
• 41:34
  Jess Lemmon: I had a promoter, Jacob Smith, I'll give him a shout out because this was another life changing moment of of my life, is he recommended me for an opportunity with an agency out of New York, for a global project.
• 41:48
  Jess Lemmon: And that project was called Corona Sunsets.
• 41:52
  Jess Lemmon: At the time it was a brand new music festival concept that hasn't, hadn't started, but Corona was always a sponsor for the Tomorrow Land Music Festival.
• 42:03
  Jess Lemmon: And Corona was like, we want something like this.
• 42:06
  Jess Lemmon: And so it really was the redheaded stepchild of a project from this agency.
• 42:11
  Jess Lemmon: They really didn't have time for it.
• 42:13
  Jess Lemmon: It was a corporate project, but my name was thrown in the hat and.
• 42:16
  Jess Lemmon: Long story short, I got it.
• 42:19
  Jess Lemmon: Which the conditions of the job though, where I had to leave my, I had to leave Toronto, the office.
• 42:25
  Jess Lemmon: I had just built the team I just built and move to New York, um, and start the project in two weeks.
• 42:31
  Jess Lemmon: And so in, yeah, again, instead of me shutting down what I had started, it was like, Nope, I'm gonna take this.
• 42:39
  Jess Lemmon: We're gonna still keep the business moving.
• 42:41
  Jess Lemmon: At the time, it was a one year contract in New York, so I was like, I'm gonna have to come back to the business.
• 42:46
  Jess Lemmon: Anyways, I empowered my team, was able to support as I got Corona sunsets going, and then very, my style, instead of just playing the, the project manager role at the time, I decided that Lemmon Entertainment could serve the artist services role that the, the project needed.
• 43:04
  Jess Lemmon: So.
• 43:05
  Jess Lemmon: That was, um, a very transitional, um, and kind of ignited growth in my career again, because I went from being the live entertainment, kind of producing behind the scenes partner to now being in charge of a, it was a five, event program with a DJ competition that was all across the globe.
• 43:28
  Jess Lemmon: And I had to put together the teams both on the ground, executing the events as well as the teams, putting together the actual brand, um, and look and feel of the festival.
• 43:38
  Jess Lemmon: So it was my first time working with creative agencies and, and all that stuff, and concurrently had to manage the business of Lemmon entertainment and a team of a bunch of juniors that I decided to take on and mentor.
• 43:51
  Jess Lemmon: And so our business at Lemmon Entertainment leveled up very fast.
• 43:56
  Jess Lemmon: When you're starting to work with a big company like Corona, now you're getting other attention and we're getting new business.
• 44:02
  Jess Lemmon: But the, probably one of the biggest c cha challenges I faced in my career was when I was starting to get that level of business, but I had to be behind all of my juniors to deliver at my Lemmon standard we call it.
• 44:16
  Jess Lemmon: and that, that was when the pressure started, I think for me.
• 44:21
  Jess Lemmon: but oh my gosh, what rewarding opportunity, by the way, this, this Corona sunsets was five beach festivals, so, uh, and my first time leaving North America.
• 44:31
  Glen Erickson: That's, that's pretty cool though.
• 44:33
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Glen Erickson: I mean, that's a pretty big brand.
• 44:36
  Glen Erickson: Like you've had an opportunity to work with a lot of big brands, like some of the biggest brands in Canada.
• 44:42
  Glen Erickson: Like you've worked with, I think Gray Cup, Junos, like these big sort of event brand names, and a more recently Invictus Games, which
• 44:52
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 44:53
  Glen Erickson: obviously grown in its reputation and you were a part of, but you, uh, you didn't go to business school.
• 45:00
  Glen Erickson: Um, like how, how did you figure out, like, I remember when I was freelancing in my designer digital marketing space, going to my friend and saying, I'm getting busy.
• 45:14
  Glen Erickson: Like, when do you know when to hire somebody?
• 45:16
  Glen Erickson: And he was like, decide if you really wanna be a boss.
• 45:20
  Glen Erickson: First, because as soon as you do, you'll stop being all the things you're passionate about and you'll spend half your time being a boss.
• 45:26
  Glen Erickson: when, what was that like for you?
• 45:29
  Glen Erickson: Like how did you figure out the business side of hiring people and
• 45:34
  Jess Lemmon: No,
• 45:35
  Glen Erickson: that change your life
• 45:36
  Jess Lemmon: All of it's, it's all quite stupid and I don't recommend that anyone really takes my path.
• 45:41
  Jess Lemmon: I had a lot of survival skills from a very young age, and I also got fueled by all of the no.
• 45:49
  Jess Lemmon: And had the punk rock attitude of, I can, I can make it.
• 45:53
  Jess Lemmon: And I also had made my literal dreams come true more than once.
• 45:58
  Jess Lemmon: Um, in, in the Edmonton to Toronto transition.
• 46:01
  Jess Lemmon: My dream when I was, like when I was younger and started, was to tour on a bus.
• 46:07
  Jess Lemmon: And for me that was unattainable.
• 46:09
  Jess Lemmon: And so when that happened.
• 46:12
  Jess Lemmon: I like, fulfilled what I thought was impossible.
• 46:14
  Jess Lemmon: And then shortly after that, I re reformatted my, my dream to just be like, I wanna have a job that pays me to travel around the world.
• 46:22
  Jess Lemmon: That happened.
• 46:23
  Jess Lemmon: I had a expense account.
• 46:24
  Jess Lemmon: I was able to wine and dine the partners that I was trying to convince to work with us.
• 46:29
  Jess Lemmon: I also, the Lemmon stage happened.
• 46:32
  Jess Lemmon: I met my biggest heroes, like everything I ever dreamed of happened.
• 46:36
  Jess Lemmon: And most of it happened because I calculated it to happen, or I was very involved in the path of, of those things getting fulfilled.
• 46:45
  Jess Lemmon: So what that did was it did give me a lot of confidence in how I navigated my career.
• 46:51
  Jess Lemmon: I was always very aware and a bit of an insecurity that I didn't have the formal education, but at the same time I was seeing, I.
• 46:58
  Jess Lemmon: Our technology come up and how quickly the music industry was changing.
• 47:03
  Jess Lemmon: When I got in the music industry, everything was still gate kept in such a crazy way.
• 47:09
  Jess Lemmon: There was no information online to learn these things.
• 47:12
  Jess Lemmon: Um, and sadly, I didn't have any mentors that I should have been asking these questions.
• 47:17
  Jess Lemmon: And maybe I did.
• 47:18
  Jess Lemmon: Maybe there was people in my life that, that were willing to support me back then, but I was, I saw so many people get shut out, that I really maintained a fake it till I made it attitude.
• 47:31
  Jess Lemmon: And I, it was so important for me to hold my own when I left Live Nation and stay strong and get the business so I could feed the mouths of my team.
• 47:40
  Jess Lemmon: I really had to, to keep the fake it till you make it thing going.
• 47:44
  Jess Lemmon: Now I made a lot.
• 47:46
  Jess Lemmon: I should have never built, like, I call it Lemmon 1.0.
• 47:50
  Jess Lemmon: The first mistake I made was I hired people that I was needing to look after, never people that were really able to take a load off me or help my business.
• 47:59
  Jess Lemmon: Um, and so, so that was a fail Lemmon 2.0 now, is kind of what it came, um, during the pandemic.
• 48:06
  Jess Lemmon: And again,
• 48:07
  Glen Erickson: two point.
• 48:08
  Glen Erickson: We're in 2.0 now, not three point
• 48:10
  Jess Lemmon: I would say this is, we're at 3.0 now.
• 48:14
  Glen Erickson: are we?
• 48:15
  Jess Lemmon: Um,
• 48:16
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 48:16
  Jess Lemmon: and I think the third time is a charm.
• 48:18
  Jess Lemmon: Um, when it comes to scaling and building.
• 48:21
  Jess Lemmon: Um, and I'm really taking my time this time, but the second time, we didn't really get there, but after, the global opportunity came to an end, it was supposed to be a one year contract, it was so successful that it kept going.
• 48:32
  Jess Lemmon: Um, we were involved in it for about five years, and then when that came to a close, I was mentally destroyed, burnt out.
• 48:42
  Jess Lemmon: The pressures on me were.
• 48:43
  Jess Lemmon: Intense.
• 48:44
  Jess Lemmon: I had a half a million dollar overhead with my business.
• 48:46
  Jess Lemmon: And again, I was, I didn't have a, any real support.
• 48:51
  Jess Lemmon: And so I decided to shut things down, um, and move out to Vancouver, which is where I'd always wanted to be.
• 48:58
  Jess Lemmon: And that was a very hard decision to kind of scale back after I, I had worked so hard to build.
• 49:05
  Jess Lemmon: but I had also evolved so much during that time.
• 49:08
  Jess Lemmon: Um, I learned so much internationally and tried to bring those skills back to Canada, and I was just met with walls.
• 49:17
  Jess Lemmon: I couldn't, what worked for me internationally in business did not work here.
• 49:21
  Jess Lemmon: And that for me was a bit of a wake up call.
• 49:24
  Jess Lemmon: Like, wait, why?
• 49:26
  Jess Lemmon: Why was I able to flow so easy?
• 49:28
  Jess Lemmon: I obviously had a big project behind me, it's not the same as Lemmon entertainment, but it was all.
• 49:32
  Jess Lemmon: A lot.
• 49:33
  Jess Lemmon: It was the first time in my life I started to have severe panic and anxiety attacks.
• 49:39
  Jess Lemmon: Um, experienced depression for the first time in my life.
• 49:42
  Jess Lemmon: And so I did.
• 49:43
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah, it took me about a year to kind of scale Lemmon entertainment down and then made the choice to move out west where I always wanted to be.
• 49:50
  Jess Lemmon: And that is where Lemmon 2.0 started to ignite.
• 49:54
  Jess Lemmon: And when we transitioned from the live entertainment space to at that time, I think the business became very confusing for people because we were doing a lot of things.
• 50:04
  Jess Lemmon: I was always, I was also offering, I, again, I never learned anything about this business.
• 50:09
  Jess Lemmon: So when someone hired Lemmon Entertainment, we were doing a very good job of working for that brand, that company.
• 50:16
  Jess Lemmon: But what I found was that we were giving more than we were necessarily.
• 50:22
  Jess Lemmon: Contracted for.
• 50:23
  Jess Lemmon: So if someone thought we were doing production and we were also handling artists and dressing room and doing all this stuff, it's not valued unless somebody can understand and value what they're getting.
• 50:33
  Jess Lemmon: And so what I, that's when I started to break Lemmon Entertainment apart into more divisions, um, to help speak to the client group that I was working with and help them understand the difference of the live production, which Lemmon was very known, known for.
• 50:48
  Jess Lemmon: and separate that from a lot of the agency service, the marketing, the creative things that we were doing when, when asked, but we weren't necessarily being valued for.
• 50:58
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 50:58
  Glen Erickson: So there's literally three things.
• 51:00
  Glen Erickson: I'm gonna try to remember them all that I want to break down with you real quick.
• 51:04
  Glen Erickson: Number one.
• 51:04
  Glen Erickson: Hearing you say that it's not surprising when you talk about I had this version of tenacity and all these things that happened for me, I made for myself because you were very calculated.
• 51:16
  Glen Erickson: which just took me back to what struck me when you were talking about just being at Edmonton and leaving Edmonton, that you knew I needed to do this for two months for free, and then I'm gonna be there for three years doing these kinda work.
• 51:27
  Glen Erickson: And that's what it's gonna take.
• 51:28
  Glen Erickson: Like you, a lot of people don't have the ability to see very far past their own nose in those kind of choices at the age, at that age, which you clearly did.
• 51:37
  Glen Erickson: So I'm not surprised.
• 51:38
  Glen Erickson: It's kind of cool to see, how that sort of stayed through your success, your ability you know, be very planned and very, uh, thought out and analytical like that, is pretty impressive and pretty awesome.
• 51:52
  Glen Erickson: The, the second thing I wanted to point out that you had just said, Just about the business itself and changing.
• 52:00
  Glen Erickson: actually I'm gonna come back to that one after.
• 52:02
  Glen Erickson: So then the other one that I think that really sticks out to me is you talking about the pressure and what it was doing to you.
• 52:08
  Glen Erickson: And I think there is so much pressure and, and thin margin, whether you're an artist, whether you're in the business side and how people handle it.
• 52:16
  Glen Erickson: And know like one of the things that you've got under your umbrella, whether you're doing it informally before, that's very formal is your Lemmon foundation and the things that you're involved in, in supporting, which I guess I'm gonna make the assumption that some of that initiative has come out of.
• 52:33
  Glen Erickson: F own journey and battles with own health and in the industry, like under that?
• 52:39
  Glen Erickson: I'm assuming you've got, I I, I remember being so impressed on social media.
• 52:43
  Glen Erickson: I saw you had the, the fit on tour kind of initiatives and um, you know, just the obvious like,'cause we've all grown up with these stereotypes, right?
• 52:52
  Glen Erickson: In the rock and roll of, you know, what life on tour might look like and just the, the abuse of our own bodies and our own sleep habits and eating habits and, you know, whether it's like, you know, the, the party all night type thing.
• 53:07
  Glen Erickson: And then people get surprised when they hear about these bands that are like, you know, they're in bed by such and such a time and they only, you know, their green room isn't full of crazy orders.
• 53:17
  Glen Erickson: It's full of like fruit and vegetable platters and special food and all this kind of stuff.
• 53:23
  Glen Erickson: So the way people are.
• 53:24
  Glen Erickson: They're starting to take care of themself, and you've been a part of that, but I'm curious how much you want to talk about what that stemmed from, from what
• 53:33
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 53:34
  Glen Erickson: Because the downside of the hill
• 53:36
  Jess Lemmon: mm-hmm.
• 53:37
  Glen Erickson: what usually gets talked about.
• 53:39
  Glen Erickson: We usually get on these things and just talk about that Fantastic trajectory up.
• 53:43
  Jess Lemmon: Sure.
• 53:44
  Jess Lemmon: No, the culture, when I got into the music industry again, this was before we were connected online, was awesome.
• 53:51
  Jess Lemmon: It was rock and roll, it was, it was full of these beautiful humans.
• 53:56
  Jess Lemmon: But now in, as I reflect, I realize how many of them were broken humans and how we all kind of came together.
• 54:03
  Jess Lemmon: But, um, to give you some examples on the road.
• 54:07
  Jess Lemmon: If a band member like decided to buy a green juice, he would be shamed and bullied by the rest of the crew on the bus.
• 54:15
  Jess Lemmon: a day off.
• 54:16
  Jess Lemmon: You were expected to be in the, the, the hotel barge drinking together and spending your, your money on more booze.
• 54:24
  Jess Lemmon: And I prominently remember a, somebody that I toured with tell me that he used to lie to the crew in the band and say that he had to go call his grandma, but really he just wanted to go for a walk and check out a local museum.
• 54:37
  Jess Lemmon: Like there was, it was not okay for people to kind of break away from just the touring culture and the rock and roll and the drinking.
• 54:47
  Jess Lemmon: And I think when I got into it.
• 54:49
  Jess Lemmon: Um, you know, there was a lot more information about what a lifestyle like this does for our health, and there were men I could tell that really wanted to make changes and do better, but they just, you know, you had to fit in and, and I learned really early how to fit in on, on a bus and, and in a backstage area, and make sure that I wasn't doing anything out of the norm or interrupting anything.
• 55:10
  Jess Lemmon: But as I started to see it.
• 55:12
  Jess Lemmon: With the men.
• 55:13
  Jess Lemmon: I was like, this is ridiculous.
• 55:15
  Jess Lemmon: And I, I chose to, because I became, um, in more of a leadership role, and it's why I started Lemmon Entertainment was like, I want, I want a space where people, I'm making them go to spin class on a Friday or taking ti taking a day to work from home and do their laundry so they can catch up from the event they did that weekend.
• 55:32
  Jess Lemmon: Like I wanted to create the environment that people felt safe to be themselves, do the great work they're doing, but also take care of their wellbeing and their health.
• 55:41
  Jess Lemmon: Even if that's just a walk outside, there shouldn't be so ashamed for it.
• 55:45
  Jess Lemmon: So fit on Tour was the first kind of thing that, that came out of it.
• 55:49
  Jess Lemmon: And that's because, My team was leading a lot of festival and touring productions where besides the Lemmon team, we were responsible and could have impact on everybody else.
• 55:58
  Jess Lemmon: So, you know, it was just something that came with anything Lemmon did for a long time and was our standard that we were able to extend to others.
• 56:05
  Jess Lemmon: And through that started to see the reactions and how grateful people were and the stories people were sharing and opening up about.
• 56:12
  Jess Lemmon: And then concurrently, um, we got more connected online and um, I could see there was some organizations trying to make a difference and there's people that really were like noticing, the support that our industry needed.
• 56:25
  Jess Lemmon: I really early saw a lot of production people that I worked with.
• 56:30
  Jess Lemmon: Die or get sick at way too young of an age mostly.
• 56:34
  Jess Lemmon: And, and their diet was beer and red bulls and I was just, it, it was all, I was seeing it just far too often and it was just like, wow, we can control this.
• 56:43
  Jess Lemmon: Like we can make a difference here.
• 56:45
  Jess Lemmon: So, yeah, again, I started doing it in my productions when I tried to move and find a way to work with the rest of the industry to make a difference and make a change.
• 56:54
  Jess Lemmon: I was met with a lot of pushback.
• 56:56
  Jess Lemmon: Um, and that comes down to there's just not budgets or there's not money to look after, the wellbeing of everybody.
• 57:02
  Jess Lemmon: And, and for me, that wasn't a good enough answer either.
• 57:05
  Jess Lemmon: I've seen a lot of, again, poor leadership, poor budgeting.
• 57:09
  Jess Lemmon: It ends up affecting those that are in the execution of it all.
• 57:13
  Jess Lemmon: Um, because I had played both roles, I knew a better job could be done in the strategic planning to make sure that, you know, shifts are shorter.
• 57:22
  Jess Lemmon: The, the breaks are different.
• 57:24
  Jess Lemmon: And it does take a lot of work to set up something to be, to look after somebody's wellbeing a little more.
• 57:29
  Jess Lemmon: But for me it's like, no, these are just basic, right, like work standards.
• 57:33
  Jess Lemmon: Like no one, none of these people need any special treatment.
• 57:36
  Jess Lemmon: We just need to, you know, support a little bit and make it okay.
• 57:41
  Jess Lemmon: And again, it was, I was, I didn't get a lot of support, in, in those areas.
• 57:45
  Jess Lemmon: I also, a lot of my programs where I tried to align myself with other industry.
• 57:50
  Jess Lemmon: Places they just, like, they thought Lemmon was making a lot of money off of the initiatives we were doing, or they would meet me with comments that just were so shocking to me, um, at the time.
• 58:02
  Jess Lemmon: And so I ended up forming the Lemmon Foundation because I thought, okay, if my passion projects need to move under a formal not-for-profit to be taken seriously, that's what I'm gonna do.
• 58:12
  Jess Lemmon: So again, that's, uh, something I ignited.
• 58:15
  Jess Lemmon: But yes, my own, I, I personally had never experienced, anything in terms of, of like a me mental health until the end of my global touring cycle.
• 58:26
  Jess Lemmon: And I would say the end of Lemmon 1.0.
• 58:29
  Jess Lemmon: Where, where I did ch.
• 58:31
  Jess Lemmon: That was failure to me having to let teammates go, people that I thought that I would hold onto forever.
• 58:37
  Jess Lemmon: But, I started experiencing severe depression, anxiety attacks, started hurting myself physically.
• 58:44
  Jess Lemmon: I had a very supportive, partner at the time that, helps kind of push me into the right directions, like getting therapy.
• 58:52
  Jess Lemmon: But then I would go to therapy and they would talk to me like I had a nine to five job.
• 58:56
  Jess Lemmon: They didn't understand, the music world at all.
• 58:59
  Jess Lemmon: So I was already feeling very misunderstood day to day-to-day in business.
• 59:03
  Jess Lemmon: I was just learning to ask for help for the first time, both in my business, but also personally and feeling misunderstood even then.
• 59:11
  Jess Lemmon: and yeah, that was, that was very, very difficult.
• 59:15
  Jess Lemmon: and kind of made it.
• 59:17
  Jess Lemmon: Made me see how, okay, now I have a personal story to this.
• 59:20
  Jess Lemmon: I should be able to, to make a difference, um, through the Lemmon Foundation and started to, when I scaled down Lemmon Entertainment, moved out to Vancouver.
• 59:30
  Jess Lemmon: It's beautiful out here for wellness.
• 59:32
  Jess Lemmon: I formally introduced a wellness side to, Lemmon and its umbrella and started to learn a lot about that space.
• 59:39
  Glen Erickson: Well that's awesome and I appreciate you talking about that.
• 59:42
  Glen Erickson: Of course.
• 59:43
  Glen Erickson: I, I think it's interesting how you mentioned a couple of times I.
• 59:47
  Glen Erickson: The challenge of being misunderstood.
• 59:49
  Glen Erickson: I think when it comes to talking about mental health in all areas, not just music in business, like the rhetoric is around that.
• 59:58
  Glen Erickson: It's like we sort of accept it, like mental health, like a health concern, just the same as other health issues which have always been supported
• 1:00:05
  Jess Lemmon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:06
  Glen Erickson: business and in insurance and in all of these kinds of interwoven things.
• 1:00:10
  Glen Erickson: But people still aren't willing for various reasons either to talk about it openly, uh, with coworkers for the reasons that are there.
• 1:00:19
  Glen Erickson: even the challenges to going and actually being authentic with a therapist or a psychologist like you.
• 1:00:26
  Glen Erickson: Talking about that just kind of like, so for me, my, like, I finally went and got diagnosed adult, A DHD,
• 1:00:33
  Jess Lemmon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:34
  Glen Erickson: uh, was told very quickly like.
• 1:00:36
  Glen Erickson: Because of your age, you've literally actually been dealing with this with your whole life.
• 1:00:41
  Glen Erickson: You didn't know it and got diagnosed, A DHD burnout.
• 1:00:44
  Glen Erickson: And, my thing that keeps coming up in therapy is being misunderstood.
• 1:00:50
  Glen Erickson: So I just found that really interesting that you say it because I realize now when I, because so much of the work has been having to go backwards and, and pull the threads and undo assumptions, inner dialogues that you have with yourself, uh, narratives that you created.
• 1:01:05
  Glen Erickson: And one of them, I think is that I'm always misunderstood and going through therapy and realizing, A, it prevented me from going to therapy for a long time, b, maybe I actually wasn't.
• 1:01:17
  Glen Erickson: Uh, how many perceptions and narratives was I writing for myself of this?
• 1:01:22
  Glen Erickson: But nobody talked about it.
• 1:01:23
  Glen Erickson: and it, it's funny like in a completely different way, but similar to a conversation I had with my last guest, Arlo Maverick, about race, about getting to a point in our societies where we think cause there's, so, it's the information age, the information is out there and we think we're doing better as a society, as a community.
• 1:01:40
  Glen Erickson: We're doing good now because everybody's talking about it and there's these little initiatives and there maybe there's a mental health day and there's a something in can all these things.
• 1:01:48
  Glen Erickson: but then to be honest about.
• 1:01:51
  Glen Erickson: slow the actual change really happens if we don't stay persistent with it.
• 1:01:56
  Glen Erickson: So, I guess I have two questions that come outta this for you, Jessica.
• 1:01:59
  Glen Erickson: One is, what are the opportunities that you see, like the easier low hanging fruit that maybe are being overlooked that, that people, particularly maybe in this industry, should be looking at, whether it be for their wellness where people probably need to start telling the truth the most in which area?
• 1:02:17
  Glen Erickson: Let's maybe just start with that.
• 1:02:19
  Glen Erickson: Like, that's a
• 1:02:19
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 1:02:20
  Glen Erickson: I have for you and your experience.
• 1:02:22
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 1:02:22
  Jess Lemmon: I would say one of the things that I've been very stubborn, um, to doing for my own mental health, but implemented this year that I think is the easy step for everybody to take is rage journaling.
• 1:02:35
  Jess Lemmon: I think sometimes we hear about, like, especially musician stuff, we all use writing as outlets and things like that.
• 1:02:40
  Jess Lemmon: But, rage journally is.
• 1:02:42
  Glen Erickson: rock callback there, by the way, that's a great punk rock callback for you.
• 1:02:45
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah, is is
• 1:02:46
  Glen Erickson: it.
• 1:02:46
  Jess Lemmon: literally just, you don't even have to be able to read your words.
• 1:02:50
  Jess Lemmon: But I sit down, some people do in the morning, some people do it at night and I put a ten second timer on my phone and I just, if there's anything in me that is negative, I'll start there.
• 1:03:00
  Jess Lemmon: But I find within the first couple se sentences, um, I'm saying just things that I'm grateful for and doing whatever you're, the, the exercise is just forcing yourself to, to write for 10 minutes straight and, and it can be a bunch of RITs.
• 1:03:14
  Jess Lemmon: 'cause especially you mentioned the ad hd, which I believe I, um, am undiagnosed, but likely have as well, is, it can be hard just to like.
• 1:03:22
  Jess Lemmon: Right nicely.
• 1:03:23
  Jess Lemmon: So this can just be scribbles and you keep up with the thoughts in your brain and, and that's very helpful and something that everybody can do.
• 1:03:28
  Jess Lemmon: Um, something that I'm working on developing, paying with the Leman Foundation is just a tool that will help people who are ready to maybe give themselves an hour a week with therapy or wanna explore the, the mental health journey a little bit.
• 1:03:42
  Jess Lemmon: is a tool that will help people understand the different types of therapy out there and which one's right for where they are on their journey.
• 1:03:50
  Jess Lemmon: What I didn't realize, is there's so many different types of therapy and the ones that I started with, they were not a fit for me at the time.
• 1:03:58
  Jess Lemmon: Um, everyone or a lot of people are familiar with CBT therapy, cognitive behavior,
• 1:04:04
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:04:05
  Jess Lemmon: literally was assigning me homework at a time where I was buried in work.
• 1:04:09
  Jess Lemmon: And so the thought of like, to get better, I had to do this, like exercise was just tearing me further away.
• 1:04:16
  Jess Lemmon: Now I'm at a place where I think I could take something like that on and, and build those skills a little bit'cause I'm at a different, different part of my life.
• 1:04:23
  Jess Lemmon: So I think, another thing is people to really, they don't have to jump into therapy, take the time.
• 1:04:27
  Jess Lemmon: There are resources online to start learning about the different kinds and try to find something that could be the right match for them.
• 1:04:34
  Jess Lemmon: And, for me,
• 1:04:35
  Glen Erickson: that's great
• 1:04:35
  Jess Lemmon: yeah, go ahead.
• 1:04:36
  Glen Erickson: the way, just real quick,'cause similar advice I had gotten was.
• 1:04:39
  Glen Erickson: you have to find a therapist that's the right fit for you.
• 1:04:42
  Glen Erickson: And it's not like, like petty shopping around for someone to tell you what you want to hear.
• 1:04:47
  Glen Erickson: It's just that I, and I learned from experience.
• 1:04:50
  Glen Erickson: Like I would go into a room and that's what also took me a little while.
• 1:04:53
  Glen Erickson: I'm like, this person isn't the right fit for me.
• 1:04:55
  Glen Erickson: Like it took me my third try to
• 1:04:58
  Jess Lemmon: Um,
• 1:04:58
  Glen Erickson: land it and be willing to hear that from somebody and then go through it, which is similar to what you were saying too.
• 1:05:03
  Glen Erickson: So I appreciate that.
• 1:05:04
  Jess Lemmon: yeah, no, exactly.
• 1:05:05
  Jess Lemmon: The person is another factor.
• 1:05:07
  Jess Lemmon: But that's the thing is I feel like sometimes we group, we just say therapy is one thing.
• 1:05:11
  Jess Lemmon: And there's actually so many, the one that has saved my life, and you've talked, brought it up a couple times, just different patterns that, that we have or decisions that we make subconsciously.
• 1:05:23
  Jess Lemmon: But there is a therapy called EMDR.
• 1:05:26
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:05:26
  Jess Lemmon: I don't, I never remember what it stands for.
• 1:05:28
  Jess Lemmon: I,
• 1:05:29
  Glen Erickson: your eyelids.
• 1:05:30
  Glen Erickson: It's rolling your eyelids around in your head essentially,
• 1:05:32
  Jess Lemmon: exactly as way as you can.
• 1:05:35
  Jess Lemmon: And that one is, is great for anybody who, does have, deep traumas from, from anything in their life because it actually reprograms your, your brain and, I'm not, I don't know the scientific terms, but also your thought processes and the things that, like you said.
• 1:05:51
  Jess Lemmon: Them being misunderstood and what we tell each other can all come down to a belief system that we have so deep in our brain.
• 1:06:00
  Jess Lemmon: But EMDR fixes it so fast, so I, uh,
• 1:06:03
  Glen Erickson: up two things.
• 1:06:04
  Glen Erickson: You brought up two things there, which are great.
• 1:06:06
  Glen Erickson: Like one is you, you had used the word earlier validation, and so when you say we have these deep things that are programmed, Validation is the programming that we seek through our formative developmental years, which is why whatever happens to us as children is so incredibly lifelong, right?
• 1:06:23
  Glen Erickson: And we end up in these patterns of looking for the same validation, even if it's wrong for us.
• 1:06:29
  Glen Erickson: And I think that's very key.
• 1:06:32
  Glen Erickson: And when you're talking about EMDR, and I've heard it talked about a couple times as a, like a resetting and a rewiring, and this is sort of where I needed humility to sort of like look at my own life these ways, is to admit that, there's things that are just connected there I don't know how they got connected.
• 1:06:48
  Glen Erickson: And I'm not as, I like to think I'm really smart and I'm really good.
• 1:06:53
  Glen Erickson: And admit that I can't undo all of those by myself is maybe what the hardest thing was for people.
• 1:07:00
  Glen Erickson: But I think what I is important to understand is we all feel whatever version of pressure and stress the thing, we don't want to give up the weaknesses.
• 1:07:09
  Glen Erickson: We don't want to show
• 1:07:10
  Jess Lemmon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:10
  Glen Erickson: it hard to make the choice to get better.
• 1:07:13
  Glen Erickson: So I just want to point that out and also to say that I'm really happy for you to hear you say like, you've found some of these things and been able to work on some of these things and to feel better.
• 1:07:23
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 1:07:24
  Jess Lemmon: It took me down to absolutely rock bottom before I was able to start getting better and, and kinda learning a life with these new skills that, many, like some people develop much earlier in life, but I feel like I'm just learning how to share emotions now.
• 1:07:39
  Jess Lemmon: Like it's okay to be angry, be sad, be all of these things that I.
• 1:07:44
  Jess Lemmon: Never was on this journey to where I, where I was business wise.
• 1:07:48
  Jess Lemmon: So yeah, I'm really, I'm, I've always been an advocate for mental health.
• 1:07:51
  Jess Lemmon: I, in my own way, I'm not loud, I don't like to put myself, I'm, I'm not well spoken and I think I'm a terrible communicator.
• 1:07:59
  Jess Lemmon: My partner says otherwise.
• 1:08:01
  Jess Lemmon: but
• 1:08:01
  Glen Erickson: Your
• 1:08:02
  Jess Lemmon: I.
• 1:08:02
  Glen Erickson: right.
• 1:08:03
  Jess Lemmon: I'm gonna continue to really learn about the space and what my hope is is that under the Lemmon Foundation, we're gonna be able to support the entertainment industry with a lot more resources, uh, specific to, um, individual wellbeing, and hopefully help with some funding for, some of these therapies because I do hope we'll be able to make a larger impact, in the in, in our space one day.
• 1:08:26
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:08:27
  Glen Erickson: but you're, you're heading into 3.0.
• 1:08:29
  Glen Erickson: You've talked about, we're like rising from some ashes.
• 1:08:32
  Glen Erickson: We've had a little time to work on it.
• 1:08:34
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah.
• 1:08:35
  Glen Erickson: you continue, you continue to be committed to causes, which is one part I really love about Lemmon entertainment.
• 1:08:42
  Glen Erickson: So let's, let's, um, let's head to the finish line by talking about that are coming up and the thing that you and I had talked about a little bit, and whether it's just the Music Day in Canada Initiative or, or any other sort of one that's on the horizon, if you want to talk about.
• 1:08:59
  Glen Erickson: I think it would be awesome'cause I love the fact that you haven't been deterred from continuing to invest in causes, which is great.
• 1:09:07
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah, music Day in Canada started last year.
• 1:09:11
  Jess Lemmon: We had, when we reignited Lemmon stage over the pandemic, we started to get a lot of demand for more showcases, in different markets across Canada.
• 1:09:21
  Jess Lemmon: And because that program is kind of, again, more of a passion project that I ran and invested my own resources in to make happen, there wasn't much of a business model there to scale.
• 1:09:32
  Jess Lemmon: So we kind of sat back and thought, how can we take a similar live experience approach, but make a larger impact for, for Canada while still supporting the artists in these communities?
• 1:09:45
  Jess Lemmon: And that's when, um, Michael from our team came up with Music Day in Canada.
• 1:09:49
  Jess Lemmon: It would allow us to, activate.
• 1:09:51
  Jess Lemmon: Multiple events at the same time and start to support the, the different communities and hopefully work with the music organizations in those communities to hear, okay, what, what are your challenges?
• 1:10:05
  Jess Lemmon: And where we can make custom plans for each location on how to, um, just support them.
• 1:10:10
  Jess Lemmon: In some cases, that's just amplification of what's organically happening there.
• 1:10:14
  Jess Lemmon: So this is our second year and our goal is to, to start telling, um, the music stories of all these locations on, uh, more of a national level.
• 1:10:24
  Jess Lemmon: So we're partnering with, with, uh, media partners across the country, um, to do that, uh, Lemmon Stage is going to be offering a.
• 1:10:32
  Jess Lemmon: Three month coaching program to any of the performers at Music Day in Canada.
• 1:10:37
  Jess Lemmon: Um, and we also use the event as a, a kind of a networking space.
• 1:10:42
  Jess Lemmon: We really try to, um, listen to the, the communities, what are the goals of, of some of the music professionals, the venues.
• 1:10:50
  Jess Lemmon: Um, the individuals may be artists that aren't necessarily performing and try to facilitate, just like a, a fun, nice networking space'cause that's what's always happened with Lemmon stage.
• 1:10:59
  Jess Lemmon: So, yeah, that is, gonna take place on September 27th this year, which is a Saturday.
• 1:11:04
  Jess Lemmon: And we, uh, we just started to top locations and we're very happy to say that we've got some support from Alberta music in Edmonton.
• 1:11:14
  Jess Lemmon: So
• 1:11:14
  Glen Erickson: Hmm
• 1:11:15
  Jess Lemmon: really, really happy that, my, my home city will be a part of the program this year
• 1:11:21
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 1:11:21
  Jess Lemmon: excited to find out, uh, what we are gonna do there.
• 1:11:25
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, that'll be awesome.
• 1:11:26
  Glen Erickson: Then I, I would encourage everybody to keep their eye open for where those things are.
• 1:11:31
  Glen Erickson: I, when you sent me some of the stuff to read on it.
• 1:11:33
  Glen Erickson: I just loved right off the bat.
• 1:11:35
  Glen Erickson: I'm like, there's such a battle right now and a lot of varying opinions on just how to support live music in general and that culture and what impact it should have, uh, on us.
• 1:11:46
  Glen Erickson: so many different opinions and things, but not enough action or not enough things.
• 1:11:51
  Glen Erickson: everybody deciding what has to be the right version or not to me, matters less than start with some version of something.
• 1:12:00
  Glen Erickson: so that's, I think I could just sort of see like, let's just do this thing and you did it once and now it's like, can we grow it?
• 1:12:06
  Glen Erickson: Can we, you know, can we expand the vision
• 1:12:09
  Jess Lemmon: Yes, I have big
• 1:12:10
  Glen Erickson: and
• 1:12:11
  Jess Lemmon: visions, but gotta start smaller I think to, uh.
• 1:12:15
  Jess Lemmon: Till I, till I can sell it to some, some, some of the, the big wallets that wanna support us even more.
• 1:12:22
  Jess Lemmon: 'cause I think there's potential for Music Day in Canada to have the, the big music festival and to, uh, have an online program that allows music fans all over the country to to tune in and support.
• 1:12:33
  Jess Lemmon: And, um, our campaigns already over three months long and, and we're, what we're really help do trying to do is not only, um, shine a light and spotlight the talents in these communities, but also actively help them with the next steps on their journey.
• 1:12:49
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:12:50
  Jess Lemmon: through, through our, our partnership with the, with a Lemmon Entertainment and
• 1:12:54
  Glen Erickson: Well, this is the thing, and this is why I'm so happy to hear it, and I am like so much wanting to see this thing take off the way, I'm pretty sure your goals and aspirations for it, would, would have it happen because let's just take for example, in Canada, something that has now become a pretty massive push in the sports world with, uh, CBC SportsNet, uh, hockey night in Canada, starting hockey day in Canada years and years ago.
• 1:13:20
  Glen Erickson: Because,
• 1:13:21
  Jess Lemmon: Didn't even think of that.
• 1:13:22
  Jess Lemmon: That's such a good one.
• 1:13:24
  Glen Erickson: this, well, the sport had changed.
• 1:13:25
  Glen Erickson: It used to be all Canadian and we weren't worried about developing our hockey players or communities, but we've seen the sport of hockey become global, so there's less, you know, it's more competitive to continue.
• 1:13:40
  Glen Erickson: That, but you have to start with good development at every level.
• 1:13:44
  Glen Erickson: And what Canada used to always have was a rink in every town across Canada.
• 1:13:50
  Glen Erickson: And it became the center of community too.
• 1:13:52
  Glen Erickson: So it's a really easy target to hit.
• 1:13:54
  Glen Erickson: But that's that initiative, right?
• 1:13:56
  Glen Erickson: It's not, you know, and the marquee is like these towns are gonna in a contest.
• 1:14:03
  Glen Erickson: they're gonna get exposure on CB, C and sports net, and then hockey teams are gonna come and play a game.
• 1:14:09
  Glen Erickson: NHL teams.
• 1:14:10
  Glen Erickson: Like that's the marquee, right?
• 1:14:11
  Glen Erickson: But meat of what's happening is the belief that.
• 1:14:16
  Glen Erickson: We have to keep building the place that happens, which is in a community of every size, everywhere across the country.
• 1:14:23
  Glen Erickson: If you want to continue to have hockey be developed and be a culture, uh, staple for us, and I think music's the exact same thing.
• 1:14:31
  Glen Erickson: Like there should be an invested in at that level for this music day in Canada of live music and fostering the development in every town of every size across the country.
• 1:14:44
  Glen Erickson: So I'm gonna guess that your vision is that big.
• 1:14:47
  Glen Erickson: Anyhow, so, I find that really
• 1:14:49
  Jess Lemmon: No, it makes me very happy.
• 1:14:50
  Jess Lemmon: I didn't even think about the hockey day kind of thing, but that's a good little case study for me to point to when I'm pitching it to, uh, to people to support, because.
• 1:14:59
  Glen Erickson: It's yours.
• 1:15:00
  Jess Lemmon: I, I really feel the, the, the biggest thing that I've seen as a problem, um, in, in Canada is there are a lot of great organizations trying to help some of the pro problems in the industry.
• 1:15:13
  Jess Lemmon: There's also so much talent that are aware of the pro, like the problems that they're seeing facing young talent.
• 1:15:21
  Jess Lemmon: But unfortunately, anybody that's kind of trying to make anything happen, it's happening on too small of a scale and we're all competing against each other for the funds that can actually lift up or help solve the problem.
• 1:15:33
  Jess Lemmon: So my hope is that Music Day in Canada can just be an overarching, trusted program that everybody that's already doing the great work can all kind of attach to.
• 1:15:43
  Jess Lemmon: And, and we will really listen on a very market to market basis of what the challenges are and try to sort and, and put resources where they need to go because we can't.
• 1:15:54
  Jess Lemmon: Keep competing for the same funds at a small level because as you've seen those little companies, they just are unable, unable to sustain.
• 1:16:04
  Jess Lemmon: It's just, it's too much for any of us to like solve on our own.
• 1:16:07
  Jess Lemmon: So we've really all gotta align, um, to do it.
• 1:16:09
  Jess Lemmon: And the, uh, producer in me feels like it's gotta be a fun experience and it's gotta attract the people and the artists first.
• 1:16:16
  Jess Lemmon: And then, yeah, the, the kind of dry not-for-profit part of it can hide behind the scenes and, and get some work done.
• 1:16:23
  Jess Lemmon: So yeah, I'm excited to, uh, to, to get out there and we just have to decide.
• 1:16:29
  Jess Lemmon: I'm not sure which location I'm gonna end up at this year, but, um, cause I can only be at one of, of all these special
• 1:16:36
  Glen Erickson: to make a choice.
• 1:16:37
  Jess Lemmon: Yeah, I'll have to make a choice, but maybe it'll be Edmonton and maybe I'll get to see you in person.
• 1:16:41
  Glen Erickson: Oh, how lucky would that be?
• 1:16:42
  Glen Erickson: Like that
• 1:16:43
  Jess Lemmon: It'll be awesome.
• 1:16:44
  Glen Erickson: icing.
• 1:16:45
  Glen Erickson: Icing on the cake.
• 1:16:46
  Glen Erickson: I really hope I get a chance to see you this year, but I'm not gonna pressure you to choose Edmonton.
• 1:16:51
  Glen Erickson: Um, but I am gonna pressure you to choose Edmonton.
• 1:16:54
  Glen Erickson: but thank you for your time and being willing to sort of walk through your story from the start to getting to where you are following your passions.
• 1:17:03
  Glen Erickson: The fact that you said you've been able to live the dream multiple times, which is really incredible, and how, how we can be authentic about how crushing some parts of that are that when you admit I got to live the dream, the, the other side of it, which I think is an important story to tell.
• 1:17:20
  Glen Erickson: And yet, And yet you're still going, which is inspiring and should be inspiring for all of us.
• 1:17:26
  Glen Erickson: so I appreciate hearing all of that.
• 1:17:27
  Glen Erickson: I appreciate your time, uh, and your support and you've been very sweet and kind to me on top of it all, uh, as we talk, which is always really great.
• 1:17:36
  Glen Erickson: And at the end of it.
• 1:17:37
  Glen Erickson: I'm actually really happy that we just got to connect again, uh,
• 1:17:40
  Jess Lemmon: Oh my God, likewise.
• 1:17:41
  Jess Lemmon: And, and this was like a therapy session for me'cause I haven't gotten to really go back and talk about my journey for a very long time.
• 1:17:48
  Jess Lemmon: So I appreciate, uh, your time as well.
• 1:17:51
  Glen Erickson: Uh, it's been great.
• 1:17:52
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:17:52
  Glen Erickson: I know we're gonna talk some more, but thank you again and I wish you all the best and I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens with Music Day in Canada as well.
• 1:18:00
  Glen Erickson: thank
• 1:18:01
  Jess Lemmon: Thanks,
• 1:18:08
  Glen Erickson: Super impressed.
• 1:18:10
  Glen Erickson: That's code for you.
• 1:18:11
  Glen Erickson: You didn't think I sounded very impressed.
• 1:18:14
  Glen Erickson: okay, fair enough.
• 1:18:16
  Glen Erickson: Fair enough.
• 1:18:16
  Glen Erickson: I'll, um, I'll give myself a little attitude adjustment on live and on the fly.
• 1:18:21
  Glen Erickson: good evening.
• 1:18:22
  alexi: evening
• 1:18:23
  Glen Erickson: Good evening to you.
• 1:18:24
  Glen Erickson: you've already enjoyed the evening outside a little bit.
• 1:18:27
  Glen Erickson: Maybe.
• 1:18:28
  Glen Erickson: Are, does that make you a little tired now or does that make you feel.
• 1:18:32
  Glen Erickson: What does that make you feel like mid evening,
• 1:18:35
  alexi: mid evening for context for people listening I just did a cheeky little five kilometer race with some people I don't know It makes
• 1:18:44
  Glen Erickson: but you thought it was a fun run?
• 1:18:47
  alexi: thought it was a fun
• 1:18:48
  Glen Erickson: It was a race for them and, and a fun run for you.
• 1:18:52
  alexi: I everyone's like just come for enjoyment It's a run not a race Like I'm like okay and I've been to these in the past you know this no like it was like the runners of Edmonton and people were like like yeah So like my body uh My mind feeling great feeling energized and I'm just like happy It's like summer and it was still light out I could be out at that hour and feel like it was daytime That part is quite amazing so thankful for
• 1:19:26
  Glen Erickson: That part's true.
• 1:19:28
  Glen Erickson: That is very nice.
• 1:19:29
  Glen Erickson: Uh, we went, I left the, uh, I left the office yesterday to walk to our lunch.
• 1:19:35
  Glen Erickson: And I was very excited'cause it just had that feeling of that thing that, uh, where we live, we wait all winter.
• 1:19:43
  Glen Erickson: So it is just to come out and be like, the confidence of it's warm and all that stuff.
• 1:19:50
  Glen Erickson: All that stuff.
• 1:19:51
  Glen Erickson: Um, okay.
• 1:19:52
  Glen Erickson: Well, let's.
• 1:19:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:19:54
  Glen Erickson: Like, or not even bring it in the morning, like just have the absolute gumption to leave it at home.
• 1:20:00
  Glen Erickson: It's just the most incredible feeling.
• 1:20:03
  Glen Erickson: Um, those are the small wins.
• 1:20:05
  Glen Erickson: If anybody wonders what it's like to live in Edmonton, that's, that's sums it up is like our highest highs are the day we have the gumption to leave our jacket at home.
• 1:20:16
  Glen Erickson: Um, in the spring it's the best.
• 1:20:18
  Glen Erickson: So, um, okay.
• 1:20:21
  Glen Erickson: Uh.
• 1:20:22
  alexi: Yes
• 1:20:22
  Glen Erickson: 16, Jessica Lemon.
• 1:20:25
  Glen Erickson: Jess as, uh, I confirmed in the podcast was
• 1:20:28
  alexi: Yes
• 1:20:29
  Glen Erickson: still on the table for her and I to talk about.
• 1:20:33
  Glen Erickson: Um, so.
• 1:20:34
  Glen Erickson: absolutely.
• 1:20:35
  Glen Erickson: So that was, uh, that was a fun conversation for me and not a fun conversation in some ways because I knew she was gonna allow me to ask hard questions and, and, and talk about hard things, but fun because, uh, I got to catch up with her and that, um.
• 1:20:53
  Glen Erickson: Uh, and again, like, uh, you haven't seen the video of it.
• 1:20:56
  Glen Erickson: Like you only listen to the audio, right?
• 1:20:58
  Glen Erickson: Like that's what you do before these things.
• 1:21:01
  Glen Erickson: You just hear the audio of it, so you wouldn't know that those entire conversations like the one with her, she still has such a huge smile on her face.
• 1:21:12
  Glen Erickson: I guess that's my favorite thing is that we did talk about some tough things and um, she still kind of has a smile on her face and kind of happy still to.
• 1:21:21
  Glen Erickson: Interact around it and, and tell the story.
• 1:21:25
  Glen Erickson: So I find that really energizing and inspiring from guests that we have when they're like that.
• 1:21:31
  Glen Erickson: But I don't know what I'm hoping that that comes through for you.
• 1:21:35
  Glen Erickson: Like when you listen,
• 1:21:36
  alexi: I
• 1:21:36
  Glen Erickson: what do you pick up on?
• 1:21:37
  alexi: I feel like the last few episodes I've been like oh my gosh you just mentioned what I was gonna say but oh my gosh you just mentioned what I was gonna say Uh I was
• 1:21:46
  Glen Erickson: Whoops.
• 1:21:48
  alexi: no I love it I like that we're on the same wavelength so often I was gonna say and it's what I said to you before recording was like the thing that stood out most to me because that's usually what I like to write down first when I like listen to an podcast is kind of what we've discussed in prior episodes with like what is being a woman in the industry like in the different aspects Um and I think it's like evident that that's is like what's gonna stand out to me But I was like reflecting on it today and tonight and I was like oh I like I just found it so fascinating that she was telling a story about when she got and I got her first but she thought would be that breakout with that little tour and then you know I
• 1:22:29
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:22:30
  alexi: stuff like she was A being just just had the raw truth out on the table And I thought I thought that was just really cool cause I think um a lot of the time when women share those experiences that make being a woman difficult a lot of the time they won't give that full truth You know it's just like they're kind of like
• 1:22:51
  Glen Erickson: It is a little glossed over still'cause.
• 1:22:55
  alexi: of
• 1:22:55
  Glen Erickson: Because they're trying to manage.
• 1:22:58
  Glen Erickson: Do you think it's'cause, I'm sorry to cut you off because do you think it's'cause they're trying to manage still what could come of them telling the truth?
• 1:23:05
  Glen Erickson: Because probably from your experience like that might not get received well in the places you'd want it to.
• 1:23:11
  Glen Erickson: Two.
• 1:23:12
  alexi: like mean I think it's a handful of things including the fact that it's like something I mean to be very blunt it's just like a lot of the time it's like when women have shitty experiences they don't want people's perception of them to become because they tell that
• 1:23:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:29
  alexi: they don't
• 1:23:30
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:30
  alexi: to and so it gets glossed over or they put a
• 1:23:33
  Glen Erickson: No, that's a good point.
• 1:23:34
  alexi: positive spin on it And I think every woman deals with that all the time But
• 1:23:37
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:37
  alexi: interesting is a that she was just so raw about it and was like this is exactly what happened I was mad then I'm mad now This was crappy And I just like I love kind of that bluntness and I that she was able to be that blunt but was like kind of like would laugh after each sentence And I don't know if it was cause it's like
• 1:23:55
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:55
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:56
  alexi: her or cause she's just kind of accepted it and been like how like stupid Um but like no matter what kind of the reason was for that I just like I loved the combination of the two and I didn't even get to see her face I'm sure she was smiling as well But I just love the
• 1:24:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:24:10
  alexi: of like the like here's my truth and here how like here's what being a woman in this industry is like but also being like ha ha ugh Like
• 1:24:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:24:18
  Glen Erickson: Well, I don't think it was like, sometimes that's like a defense mechanism for people, right?
• 1:24:22
  Glen Erickson: That you sort of just build in subconsciously.
• 1:24:25
  Glen Erickson: Uh, and I didn't feel like it was that.
• 1:24:27
  Glen Erickson: I think it was, uh, I can laugh about it now and telling the truth about it is, is not, I don't know what the, I don't have actually the right phrase to end that, but it's not, uh, it.
• 1:24:40
  Glen Erickson: It is not right now the way I'm telling it, the way it was then for me so I can maybe laugh or, or something.
• 1:24:47
  Glen Erickson: So, but I mean, those are good observations.
• 1:24:50
  Glen Erickson: Like we've had guests right, who we're willing to be vulnerable about the challenges of, race, gender, sexuality, like all of these things, even, you know, guests who are just being vulnerable.
• 1:25:04
  Glen Erickson: The challenge of like failure or feeling like it's all gonna go away, like whatever the thing that is or felt like the bottom or the hardest thing to get over for them.
• 1:25:14
  Glen Erickson: And some of them larger global universally shared issues maybe than others, but.
• 1:25:22
  alexi: Yeah
• 1:25:22
  Glen Erickson: I always wanna be able to at least look at, like, I want to go down a layer at least of, of like, because like, just before we hit record, like you were saying, we were just chatting for a second, and, and you're right, like it's like we have sort of talked about some of the subject matter, like big picture already, but.
• 1:25:45
  Glen Erickson: When you take it in through Jessica's perspective, right, of how she had this, as part of her story, of all the things she built and all the, you know, and I sort of had just been writing the intro before you and I are doing this recording, um, and just sort of drawing the, the line between the fact that like.
• 1:26:06
  Glen Erickson: Like every reward and plus has its challenge and its downside that that goes with it, right?
• 1:26:14
  Glen Erickson: Like there's always a shiny side to the coin.
• 1:26:17
  Glen Erickson: And then, uh, a dirty side to the coin, it seems for a lot of people, and that's kind of universal.
• 1:26:22
  Glen Erickson: But in this particular way, I guess the layer I, I wanted to get down is to see through her eyes what that meant right to, to go through those things.
• 1:26:32
  Glen Erickson: And it was industry, not artist, you know?
• 1:26:34
  Glen Erickson: Um.
• 1:26:35
  Glen Erickson: It was in a couple of different fields and she gave very specific examples, like you said, which I think really affected the way you could interpret.
• 1:26:44
  Glen Erickson: And I guess at the end of it, the reason I wanted to really evaluate'em, like because she had concerns too, like we talked, is like she doesn't want, she doesn't want to be a downer episode.
• 1:26:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:26:55
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:26:55
  Glen Erickson: for everybody I listened to and I listened back, and I don't feel like that's the way it was.
• 1:27:00
  Glen Erickson: I feel like what I take away from it is I had all of these challenges up against me and I had to sort of figure some things out and I got successful because of whatever traits were mine.
• 1:27:15
  Glen Erickson: For her.
• 1:27:16
  Glen Erickson: She knew how to take skills quickly, develop them.
• 1:27:20
  Glen Erickson: Every job she did, she used as an opportunity for something more and something new.
• 1:27:25
  Glen Erickson: And so she was very crafty and skilled that way in building her career.
• 1:27:29
  Glen Erickson: And she should be really proud of that and own that.
• 1:27:31
  Glen Erickson: And yet it seemed like what she wanted to communicate in her story is that it's not just that some of these stereotypes still exist, right?
• 1:27:40
  Glen Erickson: It was more than that.
• 1:27:41
  Glen Erickson: It was that.
• 1:27:42
  Glen Erickson: The reality is sometimes that for every, for every big thing I had to fight for and achieve, and I'm so proud of, and that she said, I've lived the dream like three times over of what she wanted to achieve.
• 1:27:55
  Glen Erickson: It's it all of it carries it with it.
• 1:27:58
  Glen Erickson: All of this baggage, if I can use that term, even though it's been overused, right?
• 1:28:03
  Glen Erickson: There's baggage with all of it, and that's just the truth.
• 1:28:05
  Glen Erickson: And she was willing to tell the truth and.
• 1:28:08
  Glen Erickson: That's what I loved the most is that it doesn't have to be super universal.
• 1:28:13
  Glen Erickson: And it doesn't have to be super specific either, but it just has to be the truth.
• 1:28:18
  Glen Erickson: So yeah, I probably took three times as long to get to that point as I needed to, but I had to work it out.
• 1:28:24
  alexi: No I like I like when you work things out cause they come out really clear
• 1:28:27
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:28:28
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:28:28
  Glen Erickson: Thank you.
• 1:28:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:28:30
  Glen Erickson: Um, let's talk about what we were talking about in the car real quick, because we like to share.
• 1:28:35
  Glen Erickson: Our current music obsessions and my TikTok doom scrolling has landed me on this guy that I'm sure a lot of people may know about and maybe a lot of people don't know about.
• 1:28:48
  Glen Erickson: His name's Steven Wilson Jr.
• 1:28:50
  Glen Erickson: And he, I think it's this combination of how people go viral is, it's not like he's doing anything brand new, it's just his combination.
• 1:29:00
  Glen Erickson: Right of kind of dark Americana, like bluesy folk, almost the way you'd find an indie version of it.
• 1:29:11
  Glen Erickson: Whatever you like.
• 1:29:12
  Glen Erickson: You could hang a bunch of labels on this thing, depending what direction you would personally come from it.
• 1:29:18
  Glen Erickson: But he's got, of course, an interesting look to him.
• 1:29:21
  Glen Erickson: He's got this incredible southern.
• 1:29:25
  Glen Erickson: Like drawl kind of vocal where, you know, it's like that guy is only opening his mouth halfway the whole time he sings.
• 1:29:32
  Glen Erickson: But it sounds so cool.
• 1:29:35
  Glen Erickson: he's got all of that and incredible guitar playing and it's all about his little live performances.
• 1:29:40
  Glen Erickson: And so like my favorite TikTok was this, have you ever seen the comedian Burt Kreischer?
• 1:29:45
  alexi: I
• 1:29:45
  Glen Erickson: He's a big guy with a beard that has a giant beer belly and he does all of his standup comedy with no shirt on.
• 1:29:52
  alexi: oh
• 1:29:53
  Glen Erickson: Have you ever seen a big white guy with a beer belly that does comedy with no shirt on?
• 1:29:58
  Glen Erickson: Okay, that's Bert er.
• 1:29:59
  Glen Erickson: So he has a podcast, uh, the Bert Cast and it was called the Burt Cast Unplugged, and he has different artists on, and I saw Steven Wilson Jr.
• 1:30:09
  Glen Erickson: Doing a song on that and it made Burt Kreer cry, which apparently isn't that hard, but it was fantastic.
• 1:30:16
  Glen Erickson: So then now I've just let the algorithm take over.
• 1:30:19
  Glen Erickson: So that's my new, that's my new obsession is So you're gonna hear it in the car sometimes now, just giving you a heads up.
• 1:30:28
  alexi: is it
• 1:30:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:30:30
  alexi: podcast playlist than I presume
• 1:30:33
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I'll, I think I'll, I think I'll take the song that he played.
• 1:30:37
  Glen Erickson: I'll take the one that he played on the Burt Cast that I just talked about.
• 1:30:41
  Glen Erickson: It's called, I'm a Song.
• 1:30:43
  Glen Erickson: It's Incredible by Steven Wilson, Jr.
• 1:30:46
  Glen Erickson: So yeah, I'll go on the Spotify playlist for sure.
• 1:30:50
  Glen Erickson: What about you?
• 1:30:51
  Glen Erickson: Nothing.
• 1:30:51
  alexi: Oh
• 1:30:52
  Glen Erickson: You got nothing this week.
• 1:30:53
  alexi: you know what It's not new but it's someone that's like who's okay Olivia Dean has been on playlists of mine and then I was like finally noticing I was like oh she's like now on quite a few playlists and like multiple songs I kind of did a deep dive Into her music And I think she is just like such an easy listen this is this is her I think she's a
• 1:31:22
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:31:22
  alexi: listen Um she's one of those like few artists cause when people ask what my music taste is I like joke I'm like oh it depends on my mood It no it really does Like and I feel like you know this but um but there's very few artists for me That I can listen to any mood And she is like one of the very few who checks like most of the mood boxes You know what I mean Like no I wouldn't listen to her when I was like working out or going for a run But like
• 1:31:52
  Glen Erickson: Have we,
• 1:31:53
  alexi: times
• 1:31:53
  Glen Erickson: have we talked about this before, that like,'cause you have this mood app.
• 1:31:58
  Glen Erickson: Do, do have, we talked about that Your Spotify needs to connect to your mood app so the algorithm can like know where to start on any given day.
• 1:32:08
  alexi: the day lists are starting to pick up on it cause every Monday Wednesday like Friday morning whether I'm at the gym with you or not every single day list is like hip hop rap like frat house Monday morning cause I listen to like hop rap at the gym but
• 1:32:25
  Glen Erickson: You never ever told me that.
• 1:32:27
  Glen Erickson: Now we've been doing this for four months and I never knew that that was what was going on in your.
• 1:32:33
  Glen Erickson: AirPods.
• 1:32:33
  Glen Erickson: 'cause on the way, on the way you're playing me this like bo guy be shacks, um, what's his name?
• 1:32:41
  Glen Erickson: Boal.
• 1:32:41
  Glen Erickson: That's terrible of me.
• 1:32:43
  Glen Erickson: Let's assume we're still there.
• 1:32:44
  Glen Erickson: I, the whole time we're at the gym, that's where I think we're at.
• 1:32:47
  Glen Erickson: I don't know that you're like, you're dropping like
• 1:32:51
  alexi: No it's
• 1:32:52
  Glen Erickson: but.
• 1:32:53
  alexi: I was actually I made a joke to um like my boyfriend the other day because it's like on the way to the gym it's like my cutesy kinda like country folk kind like maybe a little bit indie some mornings on the
• 1:33:05
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:33:05
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:33:06
  alexi: And I get there and then it is like the like hardest rap like yelling loud like Some of like childish gambino's like songs where he is just like screaming the whole time and it's just in my ears with like sound canceling So it's like that's all
• 1:33:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:33:24
  alexi: getting fed And then on the way home I'll like play like Olivia Dean or just some like little like cutesy country songs And I'm like and then he's like that's not
• 1:33:34
  Glen Erickson: Well, no.
• 1:33:34
  Glen Erickson: One of your moods are up and down, like you're just fueling so many different things there.
• 1:33:41
  Glen Erickson: Um, well that's good to know.
• 1:33:43
  Glen Erickson: See, everybody gets to listen in on me still learning new things about you.
• 1:33:49
  Glen Erickson: Every now and then, I don't have it all figured out, but.
• 1:33:51
  alexi: you know that when we start to talk mid set and I take my AirPods out that's what's getting paused
• 1:33:57
  Glen Erickson: There you go.
• 1:33:57
  alexi: There we go
• 1:33:58
  Glen Erickson: I'll see if I remember next time then.
• 1:34:00
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:34:01
  alexi: Okay
• 1:34:02
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:34:02
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:34:03
  Glen Erickson: Thank you so much.
• 1:34:05
  alexi: Thank
• 1:34:05
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:34:05
  Glen Erickson: Love you.
• 1:34:06
  alexi: Love you Bye