Latest / Collectors MD Features / #12: How Sports Cards Led To A Gambling Addiction | ALL IN

Transcript

#12: How Sports Cards Led To A Gambling Addiction | ALL IN · Collectors MD Features

0:00
Hello and welcome to All in the Addicted Gambler's
0:01
Podcast. My name is Brian and I have not placed
0:04
a bet since July of 2014. However, some of you
0:09
know that I did go down a route with some baseball
0:12
cards a few years back. And that is relevant
0:15
today because we're talking to Alyx from Collectors MD.
0:18
Alyx is somebody with lived experience with gambling
0:20
harm as well as... a collector who discovered
0:24
that collecting can get a little like gambling
0:26
and behaviors. And he's here to talk about his
0:28
awesome, I mean, first one I know about, recovery
0:32
group, recovery website, recovery ecosystem for
0:37
not just card collectors, but collectors of all
0:39
kinds. Correct, Alyx? That is correct. Collectors
0:43
of all kinds. Alyx, thanks for doing this. How
0:46
are you? Why don't you share a little bit about
0:48
yourself and your background and how you got
0:50
to... to create Collectors MD because it's crazy
0:55
that I heard about it on a YouTube channel I
0:57
watch. And then you emailed, not because I reached
1:00
out, but because somebody else was like, oh,
1:01
you should talk to Brian. Yeah, that is crazy
1:03
how things work, especially on the internet.
1:06
And we can get into a little bit more of that
1:08
in a bit. But yeah, Brian, thanks so much for
1:11
having me. For those of you who are not familiar
1:14
with me, most of you probably aren't. My name
1:16
is Alyx Effron. Um, I come from both sides of
1:19
the conversation. I've been a lifelong, uh, collector,
1:22
uh, of all things, sports cards, sneakers, memorabilia,
1:27
um, jerseys, hats, you name it. I've, I've, uh,
1:31
when I was a kid, you know, uh, there were these
1:35
things called, are you talking about like figurines?
1:39
Uh, I, I'm talking about like anything like now,
1:41
what do they have? The Funko pops, but like back
1:44
in the day, like when we were, younger it would
1:46
have been like starting lineup figures i collected
1:48
horror figures yeah like michael myers and stuff
1:51
uh but i was just starting lineup figures did
1:54
you ever get those no i don't think so there
1:57
was a brand called mcfarlane mcfarlane oh yeah
2:00
yeah they did some horror ones too yeah yeah
2:03
they did like ultra sort of realistic uh figurines
2:07
um sports players pop culture icons um characters
2:13
and shows and movies so i got into that a little
2:15
bit as like a you know teenager high schooler
2:19
and then i kind of grew out of it my younger
2:22
brother was really destructive and he ruined
2:24
a lot of my things um so i kind of just like
2:27
lost interest and focused on you know what was
2:30
in the present but i had my funko pop um you
2:34
know oh okay for sure uh maybe for like a year
2:39
But yeah, you name it, I collected it. Watches
2:42
was huge for me for a long time. Professionally,
2:47
I've spent, well, I should say I'm a lifelong
2:51
collector, but I've also lived through gambling
2:54
addiction. I want to make that abundantly clear
2:57
right off the bat. Professionally, I've spent
3:00
years in marketing and brand development. And
3:03
personally, I know the highs, the lows, and the
3:05
consequences that can come with compulsive behavior.
3:09
And so out of that mix, I started Collectors MD.
3:13
And so what it is at its core, it's a support
3:16
-based community for people in the card and collectibles
3:19
hobby. And like you said, Brian, it could be
3:22
any sort of... collectible vertical. People get
3:26
hooked on any and everything these days. As we
3:28
know, it can even be as simple as just compulsive
3:30
spending, retail therapy, people who just can't
3:33
stop ordering crap on eBay or Amazon. And so
3:38
these people are quietly struggling with the
3:41
same cycles that you see in gambling, things
3:43
like chasing losses, chasing the next hit, losing
3:46
track of time, money, and mental health. And
3:49
so what we do is we host weekly peer support
3:51
meetings, very similar to Gamblers Anonymous,
3:54
but we also do quite a bit of other work. We
3:58
create... daily content. So we have these things
4:01
called daily reflections, which are essentially
4:03
journal entries that allow people to sort of
4:06
reflect and take a step back and reevaluate where
4:10
they are in their collecting journey. We publish
4:13
those every single day. We have a number of other
4:15
series like our collector spotlight, which features
4:18
a collector who collects with intention once
4:20
a month. We also have three podcasts, The Collector's
4:24
Compass behind the brakes and Collectors MD features
4:28
where, you know, similar to what we're doing
4:31
here, I've been doing kind of the podcast circuit
4:34
over the last couple of months. And so I've been
4:36
syndicating all of that content into one streamlined
4:39
platform, which we're calling features. But but
4:44
anyway, you know, we're doing a lot in this space
4:47
and, you know, we have a growing network of therapists
4:50
and recovery partners. We're going out our. um
4:54
referral network uh and we're trying to create
4:57
a space that um you know i wish had existed when
5:00
i was stuck in these cycles you know where people
5:02
can talk openly without shame and get real tools
5:05
and resources um and a community around them
5:09
right and the reason this matters is because
5:11
the collecting world the hobby whatever you want
5:14
to call it has shifted it used to be all about
5:17
nostalgia you know building sets telling stories
5:21
sharing stories it was legit collecting it was
5:24
like getting and hanging on to right right and
5:27
now it's turned into getting and flipping exactly
5:30
uh and then that's because of today's break culture
5:35
that's what we call it you know breaking we can
5:37
get into that in a bit um high -end products
5:40
and 24 7 marketplaces like Fanatics Live and
5:44
Whatnot and now mirrors gambling almost to a
5:47
T, right? So when you're ripping a pack, you're
5:50
essentially, you know, taking a bet. You're placing
5:54
a bet. You might get something like a life -changing
5:57
card or you might walk away with absolutely nothing.
5:59
And the dopamine hit is the same as pulling a
6:03
slot, you know, a slot lever or sweating a, you
6:07
know, 10 -leg parlay. And for kids, that's especially
6:10
dangerous, right? This next generation is who
6:13
we're really... um looking out for because it
6:17
conditions them to normalize risk reward chasing
6:20
at a really young age and so Collectors MD is
6:23
here to help the hobby evolve responsibly we
6:26
don't want to kill collecting we're not here
6:28
to cancel culture cancel collecting cancel break
6:31
culture we still want to be a part of it to an
6:34
extent right but what we want to do is make it
6:38
healthier, safer, and more sustainable. And that
6:41
means having these honest conversations about
6:43
risk, building guardrails, helping people remember
6:46
that collecting really should be about passion,
6:49
purpose, connection, right? Clarity, intention.
6:53
These are all adjectives that we use to describe
6:56
how we should be thinking about collecting as
7:00
opposed to what we're seeing a lot of in this
7:03
space, which is compulsion. So I'm really excited
7:08
about the direction that Collectors MD is headed
7:11
in. We've had a tremendous amount of support
7:14
in a very short time, doing some really, really
7:17
exciting things in the space. I've been fortunate
7:21
to be welcomed on a handful of podcasts that
7:25
are well -established and reach vast audiences.
7:30
And so we're growing the platform. You know,
7:34
it's more than just a weekly meeting. It's really
7:37
becoming a full -fledged movement with all these
7:41
different branches. I mentioned the content,
7:43
the referral network. The community, in addition
7:47
to the weekly meetings, we also have a group
7:49
chat. We have a discord so people can stay connected
7:53
in between these Wednesday night meetings. And
7:57
people are also contributing, which is really
7:58
great. So I mentioned the daily reflection. I'm
8:00
not the only one writing those. We have members
8:04
from our community contributing almost every
8:07
day. So that's been amazing to see. And we've
8:11
seen some incredible. stories you know both good
8:15
and bad in these weekly meetings and some of
8:17
them um you know get really really emotional
8:20
you hear some of the things that are happening
8:22
to people out there and it's it's mind -boggling
8:25
that you know sports cards pokemon cards you
8:29
know can have this type of impact on on people
8:33
the same uh sort of insidious um ways that that
8:38
things like gambling alcohol and substance abuse
8:41
and addiction can have. So it's a, it's a scary
8:45
place, but again, we're, we're doing what we
8:48
can to provide the people that need it with the
8:52
tools, resources, you know, and a safe space
8:55
for them to be able to turn to, because like
8:57
you said, nothing like this existed before collectors
9:00
MD. I want to, I'm, I want to hold, I have some
9:05
card collecting specific things I want to talk
9:08
about, but other than cards what some of the
9:14
people who are part of Collectors MD what other
9:18
than cards are people collecting that they have
9:19
found that they are running into harm with it's
9:22
really mostly been cards up to this point you
9:25
know like uh we are starting to explore these
9:29
other verticals and we're seeing it across other
9:32
verticals but there's something very unique about
9:35
sports cards tcg pop culture cards whatever you
9:39
want to call them because there's also the non
9:41
-sports cards that aren't technically tcg like
9:43
the marvel and the disney right that have become
9:46
insanely popular um but the the nature of it
9:51
right with uh the risk reward and not knowing
9:55
what you're getting which makes it mirror gambling
9:58
like to a t like i said before is what sucks
10:03
people in and spits them out right when you're
10:05
buying something like a watch or a pair of sneakers
10:08
you generally know what you're getting you know
10:11
you might have that impulsive itch to to buy
10:13
something maybe you can't afford or something
10:16
that you've had your eye on that you know you
10:18
probably shouldn't buy but you do it anyway like
10:21
that's a part of the cycle but it's not a one
10:25
-to -one as it relates to the cards right because
10:28
with the cards you're buying a hobby box you're
10:31
buying a pack maybe you're joining a break and
10:33
you don't know what you're getting you don't
10:35
know what your return is gonna look like, right?
10:40
And if we're looking at it from just a monetary
10:42
standpoint, a lot of people are just chasing
10:43
profits. People wanna spend. 100 bucks and get
10:47
back 200 bucks the same way you would sit down
10:49
at a blackjack table and start playing and you
10:51
know either winner you lose same thing when you
10:54
place a you know a sports bet last night the
10:56
eagles and cowboys played you know half the country
10:58
was on the cowboys the other half was on the
11:00
eagles half of them doubled their money half
11:02
of them didn't now of course you have things
11:04
like parlays and prop bets and odds and all these
11:07
other you know baked in um sort of uh extracurricular
11:13
uh type of of betting but um generally speaking
11:18
it's it's a 50 50 uh you know chance at profiting
11:23
and so what people don't realize is that with
11:26
with the cards you don't have a 50 50 chance
11:30
of doubling your money you don't even have a
11:33
50 50 chance of making back your money as a matter
11:36
of fact in most cases there's something like
11:39
uh five percent chance of making back your money
11:43
and maybe a two percent chance of profiting at
11:46
all right so um people who are new to the hobby
11:50
especially young kids just have this uh skewed
11:53
perception based on what they're hearing what
11:56
they're being fed in um on social media by the
12:00
breakers oh yeah popular videos are ones where
12:03
cards get pulled and so they see that oh i could
12:06
get that not knowing that there's thousands of
12:08
us like deeply regretting many of the purchases
12:11
we made of jumbo hobby boxes exactly so it's
12:16
yeah it's um it's a lot of just uh misinformation
12:20
being passed around um really really um what
12:28
adjective to use misleading marketing um that
12:32
these manufacturers the platforms the breakers
12:34
are using every day to lure these people in People
12:39
get sucked into these cycles. Maybe they have
12:41
beginner's luck and they hit big in their first
12:43
break or their first box. And suddenly they think
12:45
that this is the norm and they can do this again,
12:47
right? They can repeat what just happened. And
12:51
that's never the case. Nobody is going to be
12:54
able to open a box and 10X their money time and
12:58
time again. It just doesn't work that way, right?
13:00
Like it would be the equivalent of just hitting
13:03
on 10 leg parlays over and over and over again.
13:07
That doesn't happen. Right. Your odds are exponentially
13:11
lower or I should say astronomically lower than
13:16
that of a typical sports bet. Like I was saying,
13:21
unless you're looking at like, you know, these
13:22
long odds teasers and parlays that that people
13:27
also get get hooked on. It's like insane how
13:32
minimal your chances actually are. And so. um
13:36
people don't realize that and uh then there's
13:39
the whole nostalgic uh component of it where
13:43
it's like this you know activity that's rooted
13:46
in you know your childhood and you you did it
13:50
maybe with your your dad or your brother or friends
13:54
when you were a kid and you go to your local
13:56
hobby shop and opening a box is you know like
14:00
bringing you back to uh a really sentimental
14:04
time in your life people get sucked in that way
14:07
right um people get sucked in because maybe they're
14:11
chasing their their favorite athlete or player
14:14
on their team or um you know a specific set that
14:18
uh is nostalgic to them and so there's you know
14:22
a whole plethora of reasons why people get sucked
14:25
in but ultimately many of those reasons aren't
14:29
for sort of like the purity right of of collecting
14:33
and why we started collecting in the first place
14:35
and that's what we're trying to correct uh we
14:38
want to promote collecting with intention not
14:42
compulsion um and you know there's there's two
14:46
sides to this and this is something i actually
14:48
published yesterday um i published a daily reflection
14:53
called two lanes of recovery there's abstinence
14:56
or intention right and with gambling you know,
15:00
GA says you have to abstain completely. You can't
15:03
place a bet and go back. You can't go back. You
15:07
know, once you're an addict, once you've established
15:09
that you have a problem and you have this disease,
15:13
you can't go back to gambling. It's just not
15:15
possible with collecting. We're looking at it
15:19
through. Sort of a different lens. And I'm just
15:21
going to quickly read this article, if that's
15:24
okay with you, Brian. Just because I think it
15:26
might resonate with a lot of people. Yeah, definitely.
15:29
Again, the title is Two Lanes of Recovery, Abstinence
15:32
or Intention. I published this yesterday. It's
15:34
on collectorsmd .com forward slash daily dash
15:37
reflection. You can look at all of our daily
15:39
reflections there anytime you'd like. They live
15:43
in perpetuity. And again, we publish them every
15:45
day. All right. So this was yesterday's. In recovery,
15:48
there isn't just one path. For some, the only
15:50
sustainable way forward is complete abstinence.
15:53
For others, the goal is to rebuild a healthier
15:55
relationship by practicing intention, boundaries,
15:58
and clarity. This is true across many high -risk,
16:01
dopamine -driven activities. Gambling, day trading,
16:04
compulsive spending, and yes, collecting. Some
16:07
members of our community recognize that they
16:09
can never return to cards, or to any form of
16:12
leisurely spending or collecting for that matter.
16:14
For them, the hobby became toxic, a source of
16:17
compulsion rather than joy. Maybe they were never
16:20
truly in it for the purity of collecting, or
16:22
maybe the purity was stripped away by the insidious
16:24
side of the hobby, the endless chase for profit,
16:27
the constant pursuit of the next dopamine hit,
16:29
or impressing others. When the hobby reaches
16:32
this point, stepping away completely and perhaps
16:35
permanently may be the only safe option. Walking
16:38
away for good isn't weakness, it's wisdom and
16:41
courage. Others in our community don't necessarily
16:44
identify as having a problem. They still love
16:47
the hobby, but they want to be proactive about
16:49
collecting with intention before it takes control.
16:52
For them, it's about setting boundaries, practicing
16:55
mindfulness, and finding clarity so that collecting
16:58
remains a source of connection and joy, not compulsion
17:01
and regret. They understand and acknowledge that
17:03
the hobby has evolved into an ecosystem built
17:06
to pull people in, engineered to exploit excitement
17:09
rather than nurture passion, and if left unchecked,
17:12
to keep them trapped. This distinction isn't
17:15
unique to collecting. It mirrors other high -risk
17:17
dopamine -driven activities, gambling, day trading,
17:20
even shopping. Each operates on the same neurological
17:24
feedback loops. But if someone struggles with
17:27
gambling, does that automatically mean they can't
17:29
safely participate in other high -risk activities
17:31
like day trading or even something as seemingly
17:34
harmless and socially accepted as fantasy sports?
17:39
Then there's this little graphic. of a football
17:42
player. It says, is fantasy football gambling?
17:44
And the caption is, with football season officially
17:46
upon us and chatter and camaraderie around gambling
17:49
and sports cards everywhere, now is a good time
17:51
to take a step back, pause, and assess where
17:53
we stand in relation to it all. So is fantasy
17:56
football gambling? Or is fantasy sports gambling?
18:00
Some say yes, some say no. Gamblers Anonymous
18:03
defines it as gambling, and for some, it triggers
18:05
the same compulsions as a night at the blackjack
18:08
table or formulating a multi -leg teaser. But
18:11
for others, it feels more like casual competition
18:13
among friends and might not ignite the same fire.
18:16
The truth is, it depends on the person. Each
18:19
of us has a different threshold, a different
18:21
set of risk factors, and a unique relationship
18:23
to risk, reward, and control. What feels harmless
18:26
to one person can be destructive to another.
18:28
That's why these conversations matter, so we
18:30
can recognize when the line between fun and compulsion
18:33
starts to blur and adjust our habits accordingly
18:36
before things spiral. I'm almost done. I know
18:38
this is a little bit longer than I realized.
18:41
That's also why there's no cookie cutter approach.
18:44
Each person's circumstances are unique and every
18:46
individual's journey deserves to be treated as
18:48
such. For some, abstinence is freedom. For others,
18:52
intention is balance. Neither path is necessarily
18:54
better than the other. It's about finding the
18:57
lane that keeps you safe, grounded, and true
18:59
to yourself. And for some, it might be a hybrid
19:02
between the two or another line. another lane
19:05
entirely at the end of the day we don't have
19:08
all the answers and there's no perfect antidote
19:10
we can prescribe to cure addiction but at collectors
19:12
md we honor every lane what matters most is that
19:16
you find a path that works for you not one dictated
19:19
by the industry the market or even the people
19:21
around you the choice isn't one size fits all
19:23
it's deeply personal and whatever path you choose
19:26
you don't have to walk it alone we support you
19:29
wherever you are in your journey hashtag collectors
19:31
md The healthiest lane is the one that keeps
19:34
you free from compulsion and rooted in choice,
19:36
whether that means walking away entirely or collecting
19:39
with intention. Very nice. I would, I mean, gambling
19:46
is, as we define it, is risking something of
19:49
value for an uncertain outcome. Right. I mean,
19:53
if you're playing free fantasy and there's nothing
19:55
that you're risking, then go nuts. But if you're
19:58
putting that money, it's probably gambling. But
19:59
again, it doesn't matter if something's gambling
20:02
or not. If it's causing you harm and you continue
20:05
to do it, you're either lying to yourself because
20:07
you enjoy doing it, and that's fine. It's your
20:09
life. There's no right way. GA is not 100 % right.
20:14
It works for a lot of people. It's great. But
20:17
it doesn't mean that you have to live by those
20:19
rules. You're like, well, every time I play blackjack,
20:23
I lose and I overdo it. But every time I play
20:25
poker, I'm OK like that. It's your life. Like,
20:28
but are you really OK? I think a lot of people
20:30
just lie to themselves because they want to be
20:32
able to participate in that behavior that feels
20:34
good. Right. And you can't do that if you want
20:39
the healthy existence. You know, I used to laugh
20:43
at harm reduction. I mean, I still don't really
20:45
think that harm reduction in gambling. Because
20:49
you have to free your brain of that burden. And
20:51
if you don't free it, if you keep participating
20:53
in the activity and risking something, even if
20:55
it's less frequent with less money, you're still
20:58
giving yourself that boost. And you're never
21:01
going to heal if you keep participating in that
21:03
activity. So it's hard. I mean, listen, Alyx,
21:09
I'm sitting here because I've been trying to
21:11
get rid of these cards for the last year. And
21:12
I'm sitting here. My desk is covered in cards
21:15
that I've been trying to get rid of for the last
21:16
year. And I do, I list shit every day on eBay
21:18
and I, and I, I don't like, I'm not asking for
21:20
top dollar. I list this crap to get rid of it.
21:23
I, if I had bigger boxes, I'd probably have bigger
21:26
lots on eBay. But as I'm doing this, I'm like,
21:31
what the hell was wrong with me? What have I
21:34
done? This is insane. How many cards I have.
21:40
How many boxes I bought thinking I was going
21:42
to get something. I never got anything that was,
21:45
you know, those cards that they'll show you on,
21:47
on those, on the YouTube channels that they sell,
21:49
like on spitball. And those, they'll show you
21:51
like a $12 ,000 card or something that was, that
21:54
was sold. And they'll talk about a recent sale
21:56
of like a 12, like a 12 ,000. I've never gotten
21:59
a card that was, I think the highest one I ever
22:03
sold on eBay was like 600 bucks. And that was
22:08
not without trying by spending the money I spent.
22:11
So, yeah, I don't think people are ever going
22:15
to get their money back, especially now, like
22:17
the current product, the 2023, 4, 5. It's all
22:22
so overpriced. 2024 Chrome update went insane,
22:25
but it had a lot of people in it, and that's
22:27
why it went insane, right? The price has skyrocketed.
22:30
The price has skyrocketed. The product got watered
22:33
down by all these ridiculous. parallels and stuff
22:36
they stick in there so yeah you're getting more
22:38
parallels but instead of you know the nice parallel
22:43
out of 25 50 99 150 whatever you're getting a
22:48
non -numbered holiday parallel that the base
22:52
card is selling for 79 cents and this parallel
22:54
is selling for a buck 75 right so there's no
22:58
like yeah you get another otani but it's a it's
23:01
just a shitty copycat that you don't want. The
23:06
problem is oversaturation. It's insane. They
23:11
make an outrageous number of sets, subsets, parallels,
23:17
serial numbered cards, autos, patch autos. I
23:21
mean, it's been this way for... i mean they print
23:24
money that's what they're doing right they could
23:26
do whatever they want because they know people
23:28
will buy it but they could they could all of
23:30
a sudden next week be like oh we have an even
23:32
rarer thing than a one of one you know we have
23:35
a i don't know how you do that but you know they're
23:38
they just keep creating bullshit to sell us yeah
23:42
one of ones aren't even one of ones anymore right
23:45
because Not if they're Leaf, I'm sure. Jesus.
23:48
Yeah. Leaf. I mean, it's crazy. They have these
23:52
things, these things called black box or white
23:54
box. One of ones that Panini puts out as sort
23:57
of redemption replacements and redemptions is
23:59
a whole nother story that we could spend an hour
24:02
talking about. But basically when the national
24:05
rolls around every year, you have an opportunity
24:09
where you can sign up for an appointment with
24:11
Panini to. exchange a handful of, uh, open redemptions
24:16
that, you know, have yet to be redeemed, um,
24:18
for a black box or multiple black boxes. And
24:22
what they do is they essentially take, um, cards
24:25
that, uh, haven't gone through production or
24:28
like are duplicates. So for instance, uh, there
24:31
might be, um, um, a serial numbered run of like
24:36
25 cards of let's say, uh, Jameer Gibbs. Right.
24:41
In this one particular parallel from this one
24:43
particular set. In most cases, instead of printing
24:46
25, which actually will make it through production
24:49
or be circulated, as they say, they'll do 27.
24:53
Right. So they'll have two extra copies and they
24:55
usually do that in case somebody gets a damaged
24:59
one and wants a replacement or there's another,
25:02
you know, sort of circumstance beyond their control
25:06
that. you know, they would need a backup for,
25:08
right? And so most of the time those backups
25:10
don't get used, but they're still signed by the
25:12
player. Whereas like Jameer will sign 27 copies
25:16
instead of 25, right? And they'll take those
25:19
copies and they'll stamp, they don't have the
25:21
serial number on them, those two extra copies,
25:23
but they'll stamp black box one of one, right?
25:26
This little logo that Panini makes. And then
25:29
they'll put it into one of these black boxes
25:30
and then people get those as replacement. Usually
25:34
they're decent cards, like... They have nicer
25:38
ones than others. And unfortunately, Panini does
25:42
a really poor job of sort of tiering them out
25:45
and marking which ones are worth what. Like,
25:47
so for instance, you can go and you can get a
25:49
black box that's worth five grand based on the
25:52
redemptions that you have open. And then the
25:54
next person can go and exchange $300 worth of
25:57
redemptions and get a $300 box. But they both
26:00
look exactly the same. And then people are turning
26:03
around and reselling them. to uh the after that
26:07
like on the aftermarket for the same price across
26:09
the board so people don't know what they're actually
26:11
getting the only person who truly knows the value
26:13
is the original uh person who received it right
26:17
so anyway um those one of ones aren't even one
26:21
of ones because they were a part of another run
26:24
they may have been like a a red parallel from
26:28
whatever subset looks identical to the other
26:31
cards in that same set that are numbered to 25
26:33
the only difference is that panini stamped black
26:35
box one of one on the back and it doesn't have
26:38
a serial number so yeah it's crazy i mean some
26:42
of these rookies uh i think most recently it
26:46
was either justin herbert which was like five
26:48
years ago at this point or victor women yama
26:51
which was last year um there was a stat that
26:55
i saw that like They had close to 2000 one of
26:59
ones, you know, different products from their
27:03
from their rookie year across all these different
27:05
products. And that was just with Panini. Right.
27:08
We're not talking about the unlicensed cards
27:10
with Topps and Fanatics and Leaf and, you know,
27:13
whatever other manufacturers are putting the
27:17
junk out there. But what is really a one of one,
27:20
you know? collectors and hobbyists throw the
27:23
word true around a lot where it's like, this
27:26
is the true one of one or the true RPA or the
27:29
true black of a particular card. Like what is
27:32
the true who, who decides what the true is, right?
27:35
Like, is it Panini? Is it Fanatics? Is it the
27:37
collectors? Is it the community? Is it, you know,
27:40
the online forums? Is it eBay? Like, no, it's
27:44
the collector. It's whatever the value of something
27:48
is monetary, emotional, mental like whatever
27:53
value uh you are um sort of looking at and a
28:00
lot of times it's sentimental value should be
28:02
you know up to the owner of that particular card
28:05
right the value lies in the eyes of the beholder
28:08
this is what we try to say uh but unfortunately
28:11
the market and the platforms and the breakers
28:14
and the marketplaces everybody dictates what
28:17
a card is worth And so, you know, people just
28:22
get lost in the hype. They get lost in the shuffle
28:24
and they get lost in themselves. They don't know
28:28
what they're collecting anymore. Are they collecting
28:30
cards they like or are they just collecting what's
28:32
popular? Everybody was hooked on Caitlin Clark
28:34
for the last year, year and a half. Now she's
28:38
out for the season and her market is, you know,
28:40
slowly tanking. you know, Paige Beckers is up
28:44
next in the WNBA. Like how long is that going
28:47
to go on for? And it's, it's all, it's all hype.
28:50
It's that's what it is. It's all just manufactured
28:54
hype. Back when I participated in, in breaks
28:57
and I, I did way too many every now and I can't
29:00
remember the last time I participated in one,
29:02
but every now and then I will just look on eBay
29:05
to see what breaks are happening. Like what is
29:07
the product that people are breaking? And some
29:10
of this shit, like over the years, I've realized
29:12
is just so completely worthless. It doesn't matter
29:14
what cards you get from that. No one is paying
29:17
what they pay for the license product. You know,
29:19
if you're buying baseball panini, you know, if
29:22
you're getting a boys of summer, Jackson Churio
29:24
auto, you're not, you're not getting, it's not
29:29
going to be, you're getting like, you just hang
29:31
on to it. Cause it's more, it's, it's more of
29:34
used to you than that than, than it is on the
29:35
open market. But I, I, A specific break comes
29:38
to mind, and I bid on it because I thought they
29:42
had 10 boxes, and I misread it, and it was one
29:45
box. And I was like, why the hell would I sign
29:47
up for a one -box break? And it was a father
29:50
and his two sons. And I was like, oh, how adorable.
29:54
He's getting them into breaking early. And then
29:56
it got worse because they did exactly. So my
30:01
team, I had the angels. My team, I got the one
30:04
auto in the box. I did. My team. And it was Trey
30:08
cabbage. Okay. So maybe this was the beginning
30:12
of last year or something. I might've bought,
30:14
you know, I think it was like seven bucks or
30:16
something. Yeah. Was he a rookie in that? Yeah.
30:19
He was. Yeah. One of those nameless rookies that
30:21
you just, cause he's like, he's like 28. So instead
30:25
of, instead of like in my previous experience
30:29
with breaks, you know, people are like, Hey,
30:32
an auto good for you. You got an auto. They don't,
30:34
you know, they don't. shit on you for a shitty
30:36
audio the dad and his kids look up the auto start
30:41
making fun like oh three bucks that's all you
30:43
got three dollar auto what kind of that's crappy
30:46
cabbage and i'm like you're crapping on the guy
30:50
who just gave you money to participate in your
30:52
little break because that's not worth it how
30:55
do you know i'm not a huge trade cabbage fan
30:56
i'm just so happy to have his auto on a card
30:58
and so that right there how do they know you're
31:01
not trade cabbage himself this yeah Like this
31:04
dad is now teaching them, oh, only the money
31:06
matters. The product doesn't matter. It matters
31:09
what you can sell it for and get money for. And
31:11
so the collecting aspect to me at that point,
31:13
I was like, oh, this is all shit in the can.
31:15
And this is the society we live in now. That's
31:18
what we're seeing more and more of. And that's
31:19
the biggest problem is the associated value with
31:24
cards. People just only looking at profit. They
31:27
throw out paper. Yeah. We're not even going to
31:32
ship it. backyard breaks for instance is like
31:35
one of the uh biggest those great bags yeah a
31:38
lot of people they're very polarizing i'll just
31:40
leave it at that um i'll call them douchebags
31:43
they uh recently introduced a new sort of system
31:49
i guess you could call it where they would have
31:52
quick consign which is a um you know consignment
31:55
company that you know they'll sell your cards
31:58
for you basically post up at their you know hq
32:01
where they break and you can basically DM them.
32:06
You hit a card in a break, you DM them, quick
32:08
and sign, we'll sell it for you on the spot.
32:10
So it's like, you don't even get the card in
32:12
your physical possession ever, right? You're
32:15
just, you're joining a break. You're hoping you
32:17
hit a card that you can flip. The chances of
32:20
you actually hitting a card that's going to make.
32:23
you know, make your money back again are extremely
32:25
slim, but they're offering the service so that,
32:28
you know, if you want to make some of your money
32:29
back, you can. And people get sucked into that
32:32
and they start doing that. Next thing you know,
32:33
you start looking at the numbers and it's like,
32:35
all right, today I joined five breaks. I bought
32:38
five spots in each break. I spent 2 ,500 bucks.
32:42
I'm going to list all of my cards with quick
32:44
and sign because that's an option now. And I'm
32:47
going to get back $300. It's like, what, like,
32:50
what's the point of doing that? I just don't,
32:53
I don't, you're not, yeah, you're not even like,
32:56
at that point, you're not even collecting anymore.
32:59
There is no collecting. You are buying into a
33:01
break. You're literally handing cash over to
33:04
the middleman, which is the breaker. And they
33:07
are pulling cards out of a pack and then turning
33:10
around and handing them over to quick and sign
33:13
for them to list those cars on eBay. It's like,
33:16
it just doesn't make any sense. But you have,
33:19
you know, the characters over at Backyard Breaks
33:22
that are hyping this whole process up and posting
33:25
it on their story and making these posts about
33:28
why, you know, it's the best value and you've
33:30
got to join. And if you don't, then what they're
33:32
doing is they're creating a sense of FOMO. It's
33:35
this whole, like, sort of fraternity energy where
33:38
you got to, it's like an exclusive fan club.
33:42
Like, you want to be a part of this? You want
33:44
to hang out with us? You want to be hanging out
33:46
with the cool kids on the block? Join our break.
33:48
hand your cards over to quick and sign and you
33:51
know you're you're it's the the fast lane to
33:54
becoming popular i mean that's more or less what
33:57
it is right people like to hear their names called
33:59
out on the live streams with 500 1000 people
34:02
in the live people like uh that sort of attention
34:05
you know in a rare very rare case you actually
34:09
do hit a card that's that's noteworthy and usually
34:11
it's the same names being called out right like
34:13
because those people are just buying tons spots
34:17
in these breaks and so you throw enough crap
34:20
at the wall eventually some of it's gonna stick
34:21
but if you're spending 10 grand on a break and
34:24
getting back a thousand dollars worth of cards
34:25
yeah somebody's gonna like give you a shout out
34:29
because you hit that thousand dollar card but
34:31
you spent ten thousand dollars to hit that car
34:32
yeah so i mean and that's what we're seeing more
34:35
and more of the big whales the guys that are
34:37
going into these uh these lives and ripping thousands,
34:41
tens of thousands of dollars in wax and one sitting,
34:44
these guys are hitting big cards and like, you
34:47
know, they're getting shout outs and, you know,
34:49
attention from the breakers, from the manufacturers,
34:51
maybe even tops or panini or reposting, you know,
34:55
the video where the card was hit. But those are
34:58
the same people that are spending all of their
35:01
money and, you know, losing in the long run or
35:05
the short run for that matter. So it's all kind
35:08
of just a giant scam. I hate to call it that.
35:11
But breaking is, as somebody who was involved
35:15
on the other side, where like when I first got
35:17
back into the hobby in the early days of the
35:19
pandemic, I was breaking. I was in a break group
35:24
with three buddies that I grew up with called
35:25
Bogo Breaks. And we were ripping boxes on Instagram
35:30
and Facebook. Eventually, you know, we did. We
35:33
did, actually. yeah i could show you some some
35:36
old footage uh i i did wear gloves early on uh
35:41
when i was when i was doing breaks on facebook
35:43
they were like you know very uh sort of accessible
35:47
price point i mean like it would be like 50 bucks
35:49
to join a break and we do like three boxes and
35:52
you know you weren't like you weren't like forcing
35:56
people or like creating a sense of fomo or like
36:00
screaming into the mic To get people to join
36:03
or, you know, berating people because the auctions
36:07
aren't going for what they should or, you know,
36:10
whatever the breaker thinks they should. I mean,
36:12
what it looks like today versus what it looked
36:14
like five years ago is night and day. Now, I'm
36:16
not saying breaking was safe or healthy back
36:19
then. You know, there are sort of different levels
36:22
to it. But what it looks like today, this ecosystem
36:27
is a gambling machine with absolutely zero guardrails.
36:32
and um zero regulation and so that's where collectors
36:35
comes in and i kind of want to go back to uh
36:38
one thing that we um addressed briefly when i
36:41
was reading that uh daily reflection um one of
36:45
the big differences between gambling and collecting
36:47
is around abstinence right in gamblers anonymous
36:51
i mentioned this and you kind of confirmed it,
36:54
the message is very clear. Full abstinence is
36:57
the only way forward. And I personally get it,
37:00
right? For gambling, that makes sense. You can't
37:02
really place just one bet responsibly if you've
37:05
crossed that line before. It's a slippery slope.
37:08
It's way too dangerous. You're eventually going
37:11
to, you know, go full tilt like we all do as
37:14
compulsive gamblers. But collecting is a little
37:18
bit more complicated. It's a little bit more
37:19
of a gray area. And I'm going to preface saying,
37:22
that i'm not making excuses or justifying or
37:27
or saying that you know it's okay to collect
37:31
but for some people it really does need to be
37:35
full abstinence right cards or memorabilia become
37:39
so tied up with compulsion that the healthiest
37:41
choice is just to walk away completely but for
37:43
others collecting still does bring joy and this
37:47
is you know sort of like where i'm not trying
37:48
to make excuses for these people um but there's
37:52
there's nostalgia and there's connection. There
37:55
are things that exist here that don't exist in
37:58
the world of gambling. Like, you know, I mean,
38:00
you could try to tell me that you're a big sports
38:02
fan. And so placing a bet might make the game
38:04
more exciting for you. But when it comes to like
38:07
card games and casino, what are you going to
38:09
try to tell me that like a particular slot machine
38:11
makes you feel a certain type of way? Like, no,
38:14
it's very black and white. People are gambling
38:16
to. scratch an itch to chase that dopamine high
38:19
and to ultimately try to make some money so with
38:24
the sports cards um those people who are sort
38:26
of collecting with intention and you know it
38:30
still brings joy for the problem isn't the existence
38:32
of cards in their life it's how they interact
38:35
with them the boundaries the mindsets and the
38:37
triggers so that's where Collectors MD sort of
38:40
takes a different approach from ga where like
38:43
GA is effective, but it can feel sort of cookie
38:45
cutter, right? Same playbook for everyone. We're
38:49
not here to knock that because it's saved a lot
38:51
of lives. And I, you know, I attended GA meetings
38:55
for a number of years and I respect what they
38:59
do and the foundation and the yellow book and
39:01
all of that. I mean, we've taken the yellow book
39:03
and we've adapted it into the Collectors MD
39:06
recovery guide. Like GA is sort of the foundation
39:08
of what we're doing. But with that said, we look
39:12
at recovery in the hobby through sort of a more
39:15
holistic lens. We focus on the person, their
39:19
specific history, their triggers, their goals.
39:22
Like for one collector. abstinence might be wisdom
39:25
but for another it's about learning how to engage
39:27
intentionally again setting budgets defining
39:30
priorities and keeping the hobby a source of
39:33
joy instead of stress so again instead of saying
39:36
one size fits all we just we ask what's the lane
39:39
that actually keeps you safe and grounded and
39:42
and that's the heart of Collectors MD and i would
39:45
you know i agree with you like if you have a
39:49
team like i love the tigers and if if If you
39:52
if I was collecting every rookie the Tigers ever
39:54
had because I wanted to keep it and collect.
39:58
Right. Isn't that the collecting part? You collect
40:00
it to keep. Right. It's when you get into the
40:03
lotto ticket of it all of like, oh, I'm not.
40:06
And, you know, you might buy into a break to
40:09
collect because you might be like, oh, I can
40:10
get my specific team. And that's great. That's
40:12
an easy way to get it without paying the huge
40:15
price on the on the full box. Right. So I definitely.
40:21
I agree with you. I, I, I see that. And I think
40:23
there's ways like those spitballing guys talking
40:25
about, like, just by saying, like, if you want
40:26
a card, just go buy the card. You're not going
40:28
to magically get this one in a million card in
40:31
a box. Just go buy the card. And that makes sense.
40:34
And like, I, I, as a kid enjoyed collecting sets
40:36
and as an adult, after I bottomed out and just
40:41
completely was addicted to cards again. I started
40:46
realizing like, Oh, I can make a lot of sets
40:47
on all these cards that I bought. So I started
40:49
doing that. And that was fun. Like I enjoyed
40:51
the collating and the putting in order and the
40:53
sleeving and the putting in the box and having
40:55
the set. And like, I, I just, I, that part of
40:58
the collecting, I get, I will say if we take
41:01
a step back, all of this is built around some
41:05
cardboard with a baseball player or a sports
41:07
figures name on it. Yeah. Maybe that name is
41:10
in a different color and maybe that color has
41:12
a number on it. And maybe that number color has,
41:15
their handwriting but if you really take a step
41:18
back it is all very stupid like i love sports
41:22
right but it is all just a piece of cardboard
41:24
like it's a piece of cardboard that someone printed
41:27
and said this is worth something and we bought
41:29
into that and i would think to people who aren't
41:33
involved in like my friend adam collects magic
41:36
the gathering cards and he will tell you he was
41:38
fully addicted to collecting magic the gathering
41:40
cards whereas i see magic the gathering and i'm
41:44
like I don't want to play the game and these
41:46
seem useless. And he's like, I want to play the
41:49
game and there's valuable cards. So he started
41:51
as somebody, much like I did when I was younger,
41:54
collecting sports cards just to collect them
41:56
because I liked it. He was playing the game.
41:58
And then one day, you know, where all this kind
42:01
of shifted, like Pokemon and all that, oh, there's
42:04
value in some of the stuff I have. People want
42:06
this stuff. And so now he's more in the brain
42:09
of value in my cards and getting valuable cards.
42:13
But I mean, just again, taking a step back, I
42:16
see magic cards. I'm like, these are stupid.
42:18
Why would anyone spend money on this? Right.
42:19
But I'm sure people would say the same thing
42:21
about anything that anybody collects. I mean,
42:23
I'm guessing you don't have blue hairs in your
42:26
Collectors MD with Hummels, right? I see Hummels
42:30
and I'm like, I want to throw that against a
42:31
brick wall. Right. Because it would be fun to
42:34
break. But other people just love to have it.
42:36
And we like, that's fine. It's life. We're all
42:38
going to have little things that we like to have
42:39
around us. As I've gotten older and through this,
42:42
hopefully this final card thing moment, I mean,
42:46
I still from time to time like to complete sets
42:49
or do something like that. Nothing like I used
42:51
to. But I've kind of realized like why I want
42:57
less stuff. Like I just want less stuff in my
42:59
life. Like the collecting part is you get it.
43:03
Even the sets, like after I'm done building it,
43:06
the building is the fun part. And then I put
43:08
it in a box in the closet and it just sits there.
43:11
And 99 .9 % of the people on the planet don't
43:14
give a damn that I have it. Right. None of my
43:16
friends want to hear me talk about it. The other
43:19
collectors, they might appreciate that I have
43:21
it, but that conversation's two minutes. And
43:22
then it's, so it is like to take a step back
43:26
from it all. It is a strange thing to think about
43:28
of like, Oh, this person does a thing is on a
43:32
piece of cardboard. And I paid how much money
43:34
for that piece of cardboard. Right. Yeah. I mean,
43:37
at the end of the day, if you strip it all the
43:39
way back cards, like you said, they're literally
43:41
just pieces of cardboard with a photograph and
43:44
maybe if you're lucky, some ink on them. And
43:47
that's what makes the whole thing kind of wild.
43:51
And we attach all of this value, all of this
43:53
emotion, all of this financial pressure to something
43:56
that in its purest form is no different than
43:58
the paper in a notebook or, you know. There's
44:02
something very satisfying about looking at these.
44:04
Yeah. Even though I know it happens. That's where
44:08
I was going with that. There's the satisfaction
44:09
of going through and looking. I do like the stats
44:12
on the back, and I do like the pictures. It is
44:15
a beauty. When it's a good -looking card, and
44:17
it's colorful, and maybe a serial number, it
44:19
does look good. I don't know why that satisfies
44:23
me, but it does. Yeah. What it is, it's marketing.
44:28
The manufacturers know what they're doing. They've
44:30
spent years making the product feel more... than
44:34
just cardboard. They add things like jersey swatches,
44:38
you know, bat pieces, shoelaces, different types
44:43
of patches, on -card autographs, you know. They
44:46
experiment with different types of technology.
44:49
They call it refractors, holograms, chromium
44:53
finishes, all these sort of tech -forward materials
44:55
to make the card feel more innovative, more scarce,
44:59
more worth chasing, right? So I think on one
45:02
hand, like you're saying, it's definitely silly.
45:04
You're fighting over... a sliver of cardboard
45:07
but on the other hand they've engineered these
45:09
little pieces of cardboard into something that
45:12
really taps uh you know what we're talking about
45:15
here nostalgia identity and the gambler's rush
45:18
all at once and that combination is just so incredibly
45:21
powerful great explanation the marketing part
45:24
you're right i mean yeah it's it's marketing
45:26
man Fanatics now that Fanatics has basically
45:30
a monopoly in this in the space they are exhausting
45:34
all of their resources to keep the hobby growing
45:40
to keep the hobby moving forward you know not
45:42
just with advancing the sort of innovative technology
45:46
of the cards with the extra uh you know bells
45:51
and whistles that they're they're adding every
45:52
year for instance um this new card that they
45:56
have coming out next year is actually going to
45:58
have the ping pong ball that um you know uh i
46:03
guess coincides with the player and where they
46:06
were drafted right you know how they do the ping
46:08
pong balls in uh the nba draft lottery and then
46:10
the same thing with the the baseball they're
46:13
taking those ping pong balls they're putting
46:14
them inside of cards i literally plastic in my
46:18
card and i'm going to be told this is from draft
46:20
night 2022 well yeah it's literally an entire
46:24
it's not even just a piece of the ping pong ball
46:26
it's the entire ping pong ball sort of uh like
46:30
engulfed in the card it's like i i commented
46:34
on they used to throw them away and like don't
46:36
throw those away right i was like people are
46:39
actually going to play beer pong with these to
46:43
try to go viral they're going to take one of
46:44
these they're just going to start playing beer
46:46
pong with it or they're going to start playing
46:47
ping pong and uh they're going to try to make
46:50
a viral video with with one of the lower end
46:52
uh rookies or whatever um they're doing stuff
46:55
like that another thing that's I will admittedly
46:58
say it's pretty cool. I'm not overly cynical.
47:01
I still love the hobby. Excuse me. I still love
47:04
collecting. One thing that Fanatics is doing
47:07
that I think is pretty cool are these debut patches.
47:10
And not just the debut patches, but... There's
47:13
a small detail that I don't think a lot of football
47:16
fans might have noticed last night, and that
47:19
was Saquon Barkley, who was the Offensive Player
47:22
of the Year in 2024, the 2024 season, last season.
47:26
His NFL shield on his jersey, unlike all the
47:30
other players, was actually gold. And so what
47:33
they're doing is they're taking that shield,
47:35
and every game he plays this year, he's going
47:37
to have that unique shield, along with the Defensive
47:39
Player of the Year, the MVP. handful of other
47:44
players that were uh acknowledged as part of
47:46
like the nfl uh rewards or um awards or whatever
47:51
they're called you know these days but um they're
47:53
taking those pieces they're putting them into
47:55
cards and those are highly sought after uh pieces
47:59
right they actually carry some sort of legitimate
48:03
like value beyond just being uh you know a card
48:09
with a relic from like a not from a specific
48:12
gamer event like they so often use and like a
48:16
lot of times they use like player worn which
48:18
basically just means the player put the jersey
48:19
on and took it off in front of a rep from tops
48:22
and then they took that jersey and they cut it
48:24
up and they put it in a million different cards
48:25
these uh these shields or these debut patches
48:29
which is basically from a player's first game
48:31
ever um are being you know, manufactured into
48:35
the cards and then being placed in these sets
48:37
so that people can chase them. And that's why
48:40
they're so valuable. I think the Paul schemes
48:42
sold for like $1 .5 million to Dick sporting
48:46
goods last year. I don't know if you saw that,
48:49
but then they, they had it up for display at
48:54
Fanatics Fest this past summer. And, you know,
48:58
Olivia Dunn was there. I mean, they make a whole
48:59
ordeal. They make a whole circus out of it, right?
49:02
Olivia Dunn's walking around the floor. She's
49:06
looking for a Paul Skeen's card. She makes a
49:08
deal with a breaker. That video goes viral. Fanatics
49:13
reposts it. It's all premeditated. It's all premeditated
49:18
marketing. They know exactly what they're doing.
49:20
They're partnering with the right athletes. They're
49:22
partnering with the right influencers, and they're
49:26
printing money. hand over fist and that's and
49:31
they're creating I mean the same thing we look
49:33
for in recovery is connection and they are creating
49:35
connection because if you have a little piece
49:37
of a jersey that was worn in the game that you
49:39
watched you're like holy crap it's like I was
49:41
there and they give you that connection to the
49:44
athlete I guess that's why people like autographs
49:46
is it gives you that little like his hand touched
49:49
this right which is why I was that close to him
49:52
on card autographs versus sticker autographs
49:55
yeah which is another hot topic in the hobby.
50:00
Stickers are stupid. Right. The players just
50:03
sign these sheets of stickers and then they slap
50:04
the sticker on the card. And honestly, you know,
50:06
I was thinking about this popped in my head the
50:08
other day and I was like, none of us would have
50:10
any idea if it was just a random dude signing
50:13
that player. And Tops just slapped their authentic.
50:15
No one's, like you said, no one's regulating
50:17
them. No one's checking them. Oh, a Tops person
50:20
was there watching them sign it. Okay, I guess
50:22
that's all we have to go on because you told
50:23
us that. This was authenticated by them, maybe,
50:26
but we would have no idea, really. It's one of
50:30
the longest standing debates in the industry.
50:33
And there was actually a massive scandal that
50:37
came out earlier this year where one of the biggest
50:40
names or one of the biggest resellers in the
50:47
hobby when it comes to memorabilia was basically
50:53
found. to have been artificially producing like
50:58
something like 50 % of the autographs he was
51:02
selling. And so hundreds, if not thousands, tens
51:07
of thousands of fake autographs are, and these
51:12
are autographs that have been authenticated by
51:14
Fanatics and by PSA and Beckett. So it got by
51:18
them? Yeah, because he was using like these,
51:23
I would imagine AI would create a signature.
51:26
That's what I was going to say. He was using
51:28
these machines, these devices that could basically
51:32
hand trace the signature of the player and then
51:35
reproduce it on a jersey or a helmet. A lot of
51:41
times they resell cards that weren't originally
51:43
autographed cards. They were just non -auto cards
51:48
and then they would autograph them. He was using
51:51
devices like that. The story itself took a really
51:54
dark turn because while the FBI was investigating
51:58
him, he ended up putting out like a confession,
52:01
basically a confessional on like Facebook saying
52:05
like, yeah, I did this. All these autographs
52:08
are fake. They're floating around in cyberspace
52:11
on the app, like eBay, all these marketplaces,
52:14
like basically you guys have no idea what's real
52:18
and what's not. And so when they. came to arrest
52:23
him um you know they bashed down his door they
52:26
found him dead in his home he killed himself
52:28
um which is crazy but he was looking at a significant
52:33
amount of um time in jail yes fraud all sorts
52:40
i mean he was doing it for like felony fraud
52:43
and several decades and it was like hundreds
52:46
of millions of dollars worth of inventory yeah
52:48
i'll say decades Oh yeah. I, I would imagine
52:55
AI is going to call it like I, I heard about
52:57
the scanners this year and we got, I gotta, we
52:59
gotta wrap up here, but I wanted, I want to do
53:01
this again. Cause there's so like the convergence
53:03
of, of, of collecting and gambling is, is fascinating
53:06
to me. And here you are. So we might as well
53:09
have more conversations. Plus I want to talk
53:11
more of where gambling and cards converge in
53:18
talking about. perhaps grooming kids to get gambling
53:22
-like behavior to then be able to gamble later
53:24
in life. When we talked before, we talked a little
53:28
bit about that, but I want to talk about that,
53:30
but we don't have time today. I sent you the
53:33
link, by the way. I see it in the chat. I'll
53:36
grab that and look at it. Thank you. $350 million
53:40
in sales was the number over 20 years. Is there
53:46
a list of the cards that he was saying? They're
53:50
still sorting it out. I don't know the details,
53:52
but it says that... Maybe it's best we just all
53:54
don't know and keep assuming that it's real.
53:56
Right. I mean, people, it's like... And then
53:58
there were rumors that Luka Doncic's mother was
54:02
signing for him when he was a rookie. There were
54:05
rumors that... I think more players should refuse
54:07
to sign and just sign their own stuff and sell
54:09
their own stuff because they would make the money.
54:10
You're just making top money. It's in their player
54:13
contracts when they sign. I mean, they're going
54:15
to all strike eventually, right? And renegotiate.
54:18
Right. but they but they're they're required
54:20
to to do this stuff and like a lot of players
54:22
are just like no i'm not doing this and i gotta
54:24
tell you it would be annoying to sign 2 000 stickers
54:27
oh yeah for sure but they're who would want to
54:29
do that and i can't believe some of them look
54:31
spot on every time and i'm like mine would be
54:33
so different every time yeah i mean some of these
54:36
guys really respect the craft and uh appreciate
54:40
like you know that fans like good penmanship.
54:43
Like for instance, Trevor Lawrence signing for
54:46
a fan makes sense to me, but sitting down for
54:49
a corporate guy to sign 2000 stickers just seems
54:52
pointless. Yeah. What I'm saying is there are
54:55
players who, who care about that stuff and they
54:58
will sign perfectly every single time. Like Trevor
55:00
Lawrence, Justin Herbert, you know, like some
55:03
of the older guys, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter,
55:07
Ken Griffey, Andre Dawson. These are guys that.
55:11
you know are known to have really really beautiful
55:13
signatures and sign you know meticulously every
55:16
single time they take the time and effort to
55:18
uh make sure that all of their memorabilia that
55:22
you know i like that and i like the hands of
55:25
their fans look nice you know they've just they've
55:28
saturated it all and turned every i mean the
55:31
ping pong ball thing jesus yeah and that's just
55:34
that's just the tip of the iceberg man um well
55:38
i'm glad i'm not where i used to be because i'm
55:40
glad i'm not involved in any of this i did buy
55:43
one blaster of tops chrome 2025 okay and i'm
55:47
looking at that comparing it with 21 22 and i'm
55:52
going god these look like just the the card looks
55:56
bet like the edge like it's not as nice as other
55:59
chromes it looks like i don't like the design
56:01
this year personally 25 looks cheaper to me than
56:04
other years and i'm like why would anyone these
56:06
are how much in a jumbo no way i'm not a fan
56:09
of this year's design i liked last year's design
56:11
in the year before honestly 21 through 24 they
56:17
were all pretty solid i wasn't crazy about 2020
56:19
and then this year's a little bit funky but whatever
56:25
tops tops is gonna have all the sports the other
56:29
thing is i know we gotta wrap here but um you
56:33
know i mentioned that Fanatics is becoming a
56:34
monopoly and they already if they're if you know
56:37
they aren't already uh panini is on their way
56:40
out but they continue to kick the can in court
56:43
so we don't know on their way out meaning they
56:45
won't do the unlicensed cards like they won't
56:48
they won't have license I enjoy Panini baseball,
56:53
the prisms, not all the other bullshit. Well,
56:55
yeah, I don't mind them either. And half the
56:57
reason is because it's so much cheaper and accessible
57:01
than some of the stuff. I mean, it's all subjective,
57:07
but I agree. I think prism has a sharp look to
57:11
it. But like, you know, again, prism versus top
57:14
scrum is one of the longest standing debates
57:18
that will. i mean i could do without all the
57:21
other was it chronicles has the like 20 different
57:25
types of chronicles you can get yeah they don't
57:28
even make chronicles anymore but uh yeah basically
57:30
it would take all the leftover sets that they
57:32
didn't make that year and they would just put
57:35
them all in one set which was chronicles chronicles
57:37
chronicles spectrum right it was all like the
57:40
sort of uh mid -tier mid to low tier um sets
57:45
that they've made in the past or sort of paying
57:48
homage to an old set um that they were just put
57:51
in one giant set they haven't done that in a
57:53
while uh tops did something very similar last
57:56
year though with a set called composite where
57:59
they they basically were previewing all of the
58:01
um sets that would be coming out for the upcoming
58:05
cycle or the upcoming season for football and
58:08
basketball. They, they were testing out some,
58:10
some of the sets that have since come out as
58:13
standalone sets this year. It's very interesting
58:16
the way they go about that. Again, I could talk
58:20
about each one of these topics alone, you know,
58:23
for hours. I want to keep going, but I have an
58:25
appointment. I do. I mean, I. I get it with collecting
58:30
it. I'm very guilty of it. But I went down a
58:33
bad path with baseball cards because I got into
58:35
that gambling aspect. Not even the gambling.
58:37
I just got addicted to the process of looking
58:40
on eBay for a break and then participating in
58:43
that break. And, of course, I was chasing a player
58:45
at the time, too, which didn't help. And I got
58:47
in deep so quickly. I didn't even realize it
58:49
because I was spreading it out on credit cards.
58:51
And I was like, oh, I only spent this much. And
58:53
then when my wife found out, oh, no. It was like
58:56
double what I thought. Double. Because I wasn't
58:59
tracking it because I wanted to ignore it because
59:01
I didn't want to know what I was spending. And
59:03
when she found out, that shit became real. And
59:05
that's usually what happens. It's not an unusual
59:11
story. These are the stories that we hear every
59:14
single week in our weekly peer support meetings.
59:16
And tell you what, some of them are horrifying.
59:20
We literally have had people. join meetings.
59:23
And, you know, these are completely anonymous
59:25
and confidential meetings. So I would never share
59:28
names or refer to specific people, but just to
59:31
generalize, there are people who literally will
59:34
break down during their shares. You know, the
59:36
way we share therapy and GA, we do the same thing
59:38
with Collectors MD because their wives are, you
59:41
know, filing for divorce or they're in legal
59:44
trouble. Because, you know, they went too far
59:47
with the collecting and started using maybe a
59:48
company card or something like that. Like there's
59:51
a lot of really, really scary things going on.
59:53
And when you start peeling back the onion, it's
59:55
like this mirrors gambling, gambling addiction,
1:00:00
you know, to the fullest extent. And the fact
1:00:06
that there's no guardrails, no regulation, no
1:00:08
tools and resources for recovery or even any
1:00:13
sort of acknowledgement. Like when you see an
1:00:16
ad or a commercial for a casino or a sports book
1:00:20
and it says, if you or you know somebody who
1:00:22
has a problem, call 1 -800 -GAMBLER and they
1:00:25
provide you with the tools and resources. I mean,
1:00:26
it's minimal, but it's at least, you know, something
1:00:31
that they're doing to. help people that need
1:00:35
it, right? It's a part of their corporate responsibility
1:00:37
to do that. None of that exists in the hobby
1:00:39
space. None of that exists in sports cards, TCG.
1:00:43
Fanatics looks the other way, not looks the other
1:00:45
way. But yeah, that's what Collectors MD is all
1:00:48
about. And so we are looking to, we are pushing
1:00:51
to change that. Where can people find you? With
1:00:53
the right folks. You can find us at Collectors MD
1:00:57
.com. Yep, Collectors MD. I'll put it in the show
1:01:00
notes too. Totally. Appreciate that, Brian. It's
1:01:04
collectorsmd .com. We're also on, you know, pretty
1:01:08
much all social media platforms, Instagram, Facebook,
1:01:11
X, TikTok, YouTube. I mentioned we have two podcasts,
1:01:15
sorry, three podcasts now. LinkedIn, Discord,
1:01:19
working on getting our Reddit page back up. It
1:01:22
was banned for the dumbest reason, but hopefully
1:01:26
we can. fix that soon. Um, and we are also, um,
1:01:31
you know, active across the entire community,
1:01:35
the, the hobby industry. Um, you know, like I
1:01:38
said, I've been on a, on a handful of podcasts.
1:01:40
I'm actually going to be on the Geoff Wilson show
1:01:42
next week, which I'm really excited about. Um,
1:01:45
he is a well -known name in the hobby. Um, and
1:01:49
so mine is but a drop in the bucket for you.
1:01:51
His, his numbers will. That's not even what it's
1:01:54
about. It's just about having these conversations.
1:01:56
Well, no, that's good. You'll get a lot of eyes
1:01:57
on what you're doing. Right, exactly. I'm sure
1:01:59
there's a lot of people in his audience who could
1:02:01
use the group atmosphere that you provide. Right,
1:02:04
which I'm very grateful for. That's awesome.
1:02:07
That's amazing, actually, that you're doing that.
1:02:10
I do want to formally thank you, Brian, for having
1:02:13
me on your show and for having this conversation.
1:02:16
Well, formally, I'm happy to have you. Yeah.
1:02:19
No, but this - No, I think what you're doing
1:02:21
is amazing because I've been - talking about
1:02:23
this before on these and then all of a sudden
1:02:24
you like i said you popped up i was watching
1:02:26
spitball and they were talking about you and
1:02:28
i was like wow someone's doing that that's cool
1:02:31
i should reach out to that guy and then we're
1:02:33
like two three weeks later rob put us in touch
1:02:35
and i was like oh my gosh yeah So no, that was
1:02:38
awesome. I think what you're doing is great.
1:02:40
You're a good dude. And thank you so much for
1:02:42
doing this. But let's do this again. This was
1:02:44
invigorating for me because I haven't recorded
1:02:46
a podcast in a little bit. So this was nice for
1:02:47
me. So I appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Thank
1:02:49
you. I will let you know when this is up and
1:02:51
we'll talk on the other side. I got to run. All
1:02:53
right, Brian. Sounds good, man. Take care, Alyx.
1:02:56
Talk to you soon. Bye.