Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gorgeous co-ed raped, murdered, kidnapped from Target. 'Don't Be A Victim'

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Gorgeous co-ed raped, murdered, kidnapped from Target. 'Don't Be A Victim' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How many times do you
0:12
Speaker 1: wheel into the grocery store or them All or Target
0:17
Speaker 1: and you hop out of your car and you're race in,
0:20
Speaker 1: barely looking behind you. Maybe you think to kick the
0:25
Speaker 1: lock on the mini van? How many times do you
0:30
Speaker 1: do that? A week, a month, a year? Guys, I'm
0:36
Speaker 1: about to tell you the stories, the true stories of
0:41
Speaker 1: some young ladies that did exactly what we do every day,
0:45
Speaker 1: but they never made it home. Does the name Kelsey
0:57
Speaker 1: Smith ring a bell? It's the name I'll never forget.
1:04
Speaker 1: Listen to this. Saturday, June second, two thousand and seven,
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Speaker 1: Kelsey left her house to go to Target. She was
1:12
Speaker 1: going to buy a gift for her boyfriend for their
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Speaker 1: six month anniversary. She was talking to her mother on
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Speaker 1: the phone at Target, found what she wanted, went to
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Speaker 1: the checkout stand, and basically, I think, closed out a
1:25
Speaker 1: phone conversation with her mother, saying I'll see you in
1:27
Speaker 1: a little bit. Kelsey was supposed to meet her boyfriend
1:31
Speaker 1: John at the house at seven thirty. She had spoken
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Speaker 1: to her mom at Target at seven seven thirty rolls
1:36
Speaker 1: around Kelsey's not home. She wasn't answering text messages. She
1:42
Speaker 1: wasn't answering phone calls. That was a media cause for
1:45
Speaker 1: concern that something's up. The distance from Target to the
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Speaker 1: Smith's house probably an eight minute drive. It didn't take
1:54
Speaker 1: them long to realize that something's not right. Her boyfriend
1:57
Speaker 1: waits around for about a half hour. He's calling her,
2:00
Speaker 1: texting her, and she's not answering. He starts to become
2:03
Speaker 1: really concerned, and that's when he calls Kelsey's dad, Greg
2:07
Speaker 1: with me and All Star panel to break it down
2:09
Speaker 1: and put it back together again. And let me tell you,
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Speaker 1: we are not trying to make you afraid of going
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Speaker 1: to Target or the grocery store, of them all trying
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Speaker 1: to arm you with information to protect you and your children.
2:26
Speaker 1: It took me two years to research and write Don't
2:30
Speaker 1: Be a Victim Fighting Back against America's crime Wave. When
2:35
Speaker 1: I began writing the part of this book about protecting
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Speaker 1: yourself while shopping, the first person that sprang to my
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Speaker 1: mind was Kelsey Smith. For so many different reasons, joining
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Speaker 1: me Doctor Debbie Joffey Illis psychologist, Professor Columbia Jason Ocean,
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Speaker 1: renowned attorney, joining me out of New York, Richard private
3:01
Speaker 1: investigator with Crispin special investigations out of Liquidille former police officer.
3:07
Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher the medical examiner for the entire state
3:12
Speaker 1: of Florida, and you can find him at pathcaremed dot
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Speaker 1: com for your forensic needs. Sierra Gillespie Crime online dot
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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. But first I want to go to
3:26
Speaker 1: who I consider a friend, the father of Kelsey. Greg.
3:33
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Greg. I'm actually getting
3:37
Speaker 1: chill bumps on my arms and legs right now because
3:39
Speaker 1: I remember when we spoke and all you and your
3:47
Speaker 1: family went through when Kelsey went missing. What do you remember?
3:53
Speaker 1: You know, I have children now and you're a little girl,
3:58
Speaker 1: just five years older than my little Lucy. What do
4:02
Speaker 1: you remember of that night when Keelsey went missing? It
4:06
Speaker 1: was it's tough to describe. I mean, I didn't want
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Speaker 1: to believe that anything had happened to her, but it
4:15
Speaker 1: was so out of character for her to not come
4:18
Speaker 1: home when she said that she would be there. So
4:21
Speaker 1: the whole evening as it unrolled, she was going to shop,
4:25
Speaker 1: like you said, to get a gift for her boyfriend,
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Speaker 1: and then they were going to go out. She was
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Speaker 1: supposed to be back at the house to meet him
4:31
Speaker 1: and she wasn't there on time, and we couldn't get
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Speaker 1: ahold of her by phone. Again, this is two thousand
4:36
Speaker 1: and seven, so cell phones are not quite as ubiquitous
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Speaker 1: as they are now, but still a lot of people
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Speaker 1: had them. Texting was all the raids back then. Of course,
4:46
Speaker 1: that was back when you got charged for every text
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Speaker 1: that you made. I can tell you about the cell phone.
4:53
Speaker 1: Not being able to get ahold of her was our
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Speaker 1: first queue that something had gone wrong. And then secondly,
5:00
Speaker 1: my parents lived out. I knew where she was at.
5:02
Speaker 1: I knew she'd go into the target. My parents lived
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Speaker 1: out that way. They drove by the Target and didn't
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Speaker 1: see her car, but they continued to drive around and
5:11
Speaker 1: there's a mall right across the street from the Target,
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Speaker 1: and they saw her car there. Oh gosh, okay, wait
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Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait, I'm just getting that feeling. She
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Speaker 1: doesn't answer the phone. She always picks the phone up.
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Speaker 1: You know. She made it to Target because she was
5:28
Speaker 1: talking to her mom as she was getting the little
5:31
Speaker 1: present for the boyfriend. This is, as I've always said,
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Speaker 1: a little girl scrubbed in sunshine, I mean precious good grades,
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Speaker 1: sweet sweet girl shopping at Target, and that feeling when
5:49
Speaker 1: mom and dad keep calling, calling, calling, calling, and she's
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Speaker 1: not home. She's eight minutes away, for Pete's sake, the
5:56
Speaker 1: grandparents driving around and they don't see her car at Tar,
6:00
Speaker 1: then find it at a mall, a mall near by.
6:07
Speaker 1: But there was no reason for her to be at
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Speaker 1: the mall, right, Greg, not that we knew of the
6:12
Speaker 1: Only she was going to target. She specifically had called
6:14
Speaker 1: her mother while she was at the target because the
6:17
Speaker 1: item that she was looking for. My wife knew exactly
6:20
Speaker 1: where it was, and they were having that conversation on
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Speaker 1: the phone to where to go to pick up the
6:24
Speaker 1: gift that she wanted to give for John, which she
6:26
Speaker 1: did purchase. It was found in the car. Later, when
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Speaker 1: you heard your daughter's car was spotted at a nearby mall,
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Speaker 1: or she wasn't supposed to be and she's not in
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Speaker 1: the car and the target purchase is in the car,
6:44
Speaker 1: what went through your mind? Well, my first thought once
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Speaker 1: I got a phone call. The actual call I got
6:50
Speaker 1: was from one of my daughters, Lindsay, who was out
6:54
Speaker 1: with John. They were also driving around trying to find
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Speaker 1: Kelsey's car to see if if they can figure out
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Speaker 1: what had happened, and then they ran into my parents
7:02
Speaker 1: and then Lindsey called me and said, hey, Dad, Mebi
7:07
Speaker 1: and Peppie. My parents found the car and Kelsey's not here,
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Speaker 1: and John wants to open the doors and look around,
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Speaker 1: and I said, no, don't let him get anywhere near
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Speaker 1: the car. I'm on my way up. Called the police.
7:18
Speaker 1: Why did you say don't touch the car? Well, I
7:21
Speaker 1: am law enforcement officer, and my first thought was that
7:24
Speaker 1: something could be wrong, and I didn't want to. I
7:27
Speaker 1: didn't want any chance of a crime scene that might
7:29
Speaker 1: have trace evidence being disturbed. How did you know that
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Speaker 1: soon end this could be a crime. Gut feeling, call
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Speaker 1: it a parent's instinct or a gut feeling. She never, never, ever,
7:40
Speaker 1: ever was late. She was late one time in her
7:43
Speaker 1: life and got grounded and then never did it again.
7:45
Speaker 1: She would always text if she changed locations or call
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Speaker 1: and let us know, Hey, I was at so and
7:50
Speaker 1: so's house, now we're down here. And it was just
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Speaker 1: something that I required as a police officer. Of all
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Speaker 1: my kids, I have five, and they hey, I don't
7:58
Speaker 1: care where you're going, but I need to know where
8:00
Speaker 1: you're at just in case something happens. And so you.
8:02
Speaker 1: Richard Trance far of our Fort Lauderdale cop now private
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Speaker 1: investigator with Crispin Special Investigations, He's so right because how
8:12
Speaker 1: much evidence can you lose or inadvertently destroy by touching
8:18
Speaker 1: the car. Well, touching the car, you're going to touch
8:21
Speaker 1: any DNA that's on the vehicle. You may mess with
8:25
Speaker 1: the fingerprints they're gonna be on there. You may remove hair,
8:28
Speaker 1: any evidence that's in that car. Anybody touches that, you
8:31
Speaker 1: have a very good chance that they're going to get,
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Speaker 1: they're going to contaminate. So we'll hold in that car
8:37
Speaker 1: was one of the best things you know, the father
8:38
Speaker 1: could have ever done. Clime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
8:57
Speaker 1: we were talking about information to arm you to protect
9:02
Speaker 1: yourself and your family. And with me who I consider
9:05
Speaker 1: not just a colleague but a longtime friend, the dad
9:09
Speaker 1: of a beautiful young girl, Kelsey. This is Greg Smith
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Speaker 1: Well with a law background. He immediately knew what to do.
9:18
Speaker 1: Although how you stealed yourself and told the boyfriend and
9:23
Speaker 1: the other daughter don't judge the car, even at a
9:28
Speaker 1: time when you felt your daughter's missing, amazes me. Guys.
9:31
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at investigation discovery. The
9:36
Speaker 1: surveillance video was very revealing. A white male was following
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Speaker 1: Kelsey around the store, up and down several aisles, staying
9:44
Speaker 1: far enough back that she couldn't quite see that he
9:47
Speaker 1: was following her. It was a whole flight watching a
9:50
Speaker 1: lion circle a wild the beast. I mean, this is
9:52
Speaker 1: something you see in the wild. It was crazy. And
9:55
Speaker 1: then when she goes to the checkout, that's when he
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Speaker 1: leaves the store. We found out later he had left
10:03
Speaker 1: the store before her so he could go to his
10:04
Speaker 1: pickup truck and get his gun. This is not something
10:09
Speaker 1: that happens every day anywhere, but especially not Overlyn Park.
10:14
Speaker 1: To have somebody go missing from a store like that,
10:18
Speaker 1: it's chilling. Anyone could have been the target that day,
10:21
Speaker 1: it just happened to be her. Back to Kelsey's dad
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Speaker 1: joining us, Greg Smith, and he is one of the
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Speaker 1: founders of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, which you can find online.
10:33
Speaker 1: I encourage you to do that, Greg. What did the
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Speaker 1: video show there at Target? Well, the internal video inside
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Speaker 1: the store, you can see Kelsey going to the various
10:45
Speaker 1: places that she needed to go to complete her shopping
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Speaker 1: tasks and her abductor eventually killer is always present in
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Speaker 1: the video somewhere he's right behind her. It's not very obvious.
11:02
Speaker 1: It's Bob Miller, who was one of the lead detectives,
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Speaker 1: described it as like a some kind of predator circling
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Speaker 1: Wildebeesta and that's that's exactly it. He was not very
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Speaker 1: overt about what he did, but it was very obvious
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Speaker 1: following his eyes. They were always following Kelsey throughout the
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Speaker 1: store and then of course when she left the store.
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Speaker 1: The abduction was actually caught on tape. To Jason Oceans,
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Speaker 1: new York defense attorney joining US, Jason Oceans, I have
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Speaker 1: always said NASA could take some clues from Target. How
11:39
Speaker 1: many times has Target video been used at trial and
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Speaker 1: in investigations. It's incredible. And Nancy the advent of CCTV,
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Speaker 1: and you know, certainly his aided law enforcement families relative
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Speaker 1: to help solve a crime situation. Here thousands, thousands of crimes.
12:05
Speaker 1: And so you know the thing about Target is and
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Speaker 1: Greg Smith you know this better than anybody is it's
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Speaker 1: incredible surveillance video. So I always questioned why people say, oh,
12:19
Speaker 1: my camera wasn't working. The surveillance wasn't working. We taped
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Speaker 1: over it is too grainy because if Target can do it,
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Speaker 1: anybody can do it right if they can pull it
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Speaker 1: off the way Target does. And when you look at
12:32
Speaker 1: that video, Kelsey has no idea. This guy is in
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Speaker 1: every picture. As you said, say, she comes in, then
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Speaker 1: she's at the checkout, then she's at this aisle, that aisle.
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Speaker 1: He's always in the picture. I heard you say that, Greg. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's very apparent when you watch the video, particularly with
12:55
Speaker 1: you know, secondhand knowledge twenty twenty hindsight that yeah, he
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Speaker 1: was in there, following her around the store and did
13:02
Speaker 1: not have good intentions and she never noticed him. And
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Speaker 1: why should she? When you go shopping, are you constantly
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Speaker 1: looking over your shoulder? Well, I can tell you this much.
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Speaker 1: I have researched, investigated, prosecutor, and covered so many cases
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Speaker 1: that it really kicks in when you're going back to
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Speaker 1: your car. The likelihood that you're going to be attacked
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Speaker 1: in a department store, in a store is very low.
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Speaker 1: It's when you walk through those doors. Who is this guy?
13:35
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Investigation Discovery releasing
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Speaker 1: that surveillance footage that really helped this case because thousands
13:44
Speaker 1: of tips came pouring in it led to the two
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Speaker 1: tips that brought police to Edwin Hall. Edwin Hall was
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Speaker 1: the suspect. He was twenty six years old. Yon Hall
14:00
Speaker 1: was sitting at work on a lunch break and then
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Speaker 1: the news comes on on the television and one of
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Speaker 1: his co worker says, isn't that your truck? Looks inside
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Speaker 1: the lunch him his truck's literally parked just outside the window.
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Speaker 1: So his co workers looking at the video on the
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Speaker 1: camp the news, looking outside and confirming with Edwin, is
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Speaker 1: that your truck? And at that point Edwin tells his boss,
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Speaker 1: I'm sick. I'm going home. Oddly enough, Edwin All had
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Speaker 1: a MySpace page that described his interests as eating small
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Speaker 1: children and harming animals. He did have a violent history.
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Speaker 1: He had a record. He had threatened his own sister
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Speaker 1: with a knife when he was just sixteen years old,
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Speaker 1: joining me as Kilsy's dad, Greg Smith. Police releasing that
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Speaker 1: surveillance video footage of the man following Kelsey inside a
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Speaker 1: target with plenty of people around, no one noticed a thing.
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Speaker 1: His name Edwin Hall, he said, weren't When a coworker
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Speaker 1: sees on the knees that police are looking for his truck,
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Speaker 1: and he immediately says he feels bad and leaves. Greg Smith,
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Speaker 1: do you remember that being flashed all across the knees
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Speaker 1: and the search for your daughter? Oh? Absolutely, it was.
15:24
Speaker 1: I mean it was one of the thousands and thousands
15:28
Speaker 1: of tips that came in. Eventually, there were some people
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Speaker 1: that identified him from the video. Particularly there was a
15:37
Speaker 1: still shot at the law enforcement put out of him
15:39
Speaker 1: exiting the store that gave some detail, and there were
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Speaker 1: several people that said, hey, I know who that guy is,
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Speaker 1: as well as his truck is rather distinctive. It was
15:49
Speaker 1: an older model truck, not that many of them out
15:53
Speaker 1: on the road anymore, so it was clearly easy to identify,
15:58
Speaker 1: but it wasn't clear that he was the person that
16:01
Speaker 1: had done anything because the abduction video was not clear
16:04
Speaker 1: enough to identify who the abductor was. So it was
16:09
Speaker 1: he was always a person of interest until finally some
16:14
Speaker 1: of that evidence that we've talked about at the very
16:17
Speaker 1: beginning that was found inside the car put him in
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Speaker 1: the car. Let me ask you this about that surveillance
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Speaker 1: video in the parking lot. And I devote literally pages
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Speaker 1: and pages Greg about safe in parking lots, But how
16:34
Speaker 1: do you think he managed to get it over on Kelsey.
16:40
Speaker 1: She walked out the door. She had a very short
16:43
Speaker 1: walk to her car. In your mind in law enforcement,
16:48
Speaker 1: how did he do it? How did he take her
16:50
Speaker 1: by surprise? He's done him before, that's pretty obvious from
16:54
Speaker 1: watching the video. We got information after the fact again
17:00
Speaker 1: that a lady had been attacked in a shopping district
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Speaker 1: just over the state line in Missouri. Were only twelve
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Speaker 1: miles from Missouri. Same type of thing happened where someone
17:09
Speaker 1: tried to grab her as she was getting in the car.
17:11
Speaker 1: Although this person that attacked her didn't attack her while
17:16
Speaker 1: the door was opened. Her door was still closed and
17:18
Speaker 1: she was able to get away from him. Now, they
17:21
Speaker 1: didn't have any video there, and she did report it
17:23
Speaker 1: to police at the time, but there were no pictures
17:25
Speaker 1: of him or anything. But she was my understanding as
17:28
Speaker 1: she actually called the police after Kelsey's killer's picture showed
17:33
Speaker 1: up on television and said, that's the guy. That's the
17:35
Speaker 1: guy that did this to me. It was very planned out.
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Speaker 1: He parked a row behind her. Video shows him following
17:43
Speaker 1: her into the parking lot. His truck was behind her car.
17:47
Speaker 1: She pulls into a parking space, his truck goes around
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Speaker 1: behind the target building, makes a complete circle, comes back,
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Speaker 1: spots or car parks a road behind, Kelsey goes in.
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Speaker 1: He goes in behind her, then he comes back out.
18:00
Speaker 1: He goes out the indoor. Um, so it's obvious where
18:05
Speaker 1: he was and to pick him up, and he goes
18:06
Speaker 1: out into the end of the parking lot. And then
18:09
Speaker 1: the abduction you actually see it's just a blur at
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Speaker 1: first coming across the screen from the left hand side
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Speaker 1: to the right hand side, which is the actual abduction
18:18
Speaker 1: that took place. So it was very it was very practiced.
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Speaker 1: It was very quick. Um seventeen seconds from the time
18:26
Speaker 1: he appears in the video until her car backs out
18:28
Speaker 1: of the parking space. So um, he'd been there and
18:31
Speaker 1: done that before. This was not his first time climb
18:46
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about information
18:52
Speaker 1: in a book that took two years to research and
18:56
Speaker 1: put together for you. This is for you to arm
19:01
Speaker 1: yourself and the ones you love with information. In joining
19:06
Speaker 1: me as a longtime colleague and man I consider a friend.
19:10
Speaker 1: The father of Kelsey Smith, the founder of the Kelsey
19:13
Speaker 1: Smith Foundation, Greg Smith, along with an all star panel,
19:17
Speaker 1: Jason Ocean's doctor Debbie Joffe, Ellis Richard Truntz with Crispin's
19:22
Speaker 1: Special Investigations, Doctor Tim Gallagher, Sierra Gillespie, Guys, I want
19:28
Speaker 1: you to take a listen to our friends at Investigation Discovery.
19:31
Speaker 1: We do search Warren's house, get us shrine for healthic
19:34
Speaker 1: religion in his basement. There's talk that there was some
19:37
Speaker 1: kind of religious overtones to its botanic overtonlets to it.
19:42
Speaker 1: Because of the murdering background, he wouldn't confirm it. But
19:46
Speaker 1: when we found Kelsey, the stakes and branches that were
19:50
Speaker 1: over her body were in a particular pattern that me
19:54
Speaker 1: have looked somewhat like a pentagram. It gave the impression
19:59
Speaker 1: that it might have sacrifice for that religion. When police
20:06
Speaker 1: go to Edwin Hall's home to question him, he's packing
20:11
Speaker 1: bags with his wife and child. He says they're getting
20:13
Speaker 1: ready to go on vacation. They bring him in for
20:15
Speaker 1: questioning and his fingerprints are matched for those on Kelsey
20:19
Speaker 1: Smith's car. Edwin R. Hall, twenty six, of Alaifa, has
20:23
Speaker 1: been arrested for aggravated kidnapping and murder in the first
20:27
Speaker 1: degree with me is Kelsey's dad, but first to doctor
20:31
Speaker 1: Debbie Joffey, ellis joining us from Columbia. Doctor Debbie, you
20:37
Speaker 1: hear that the rapist, the murderer has a wife and child.
20:44
Speaker 1: I know it's hard for a lot of people to understand.
20:48
Speaker 1: Why would someone that has the opportunity for regular relations
20:54
Speaker 1: with a wife seek out an innocent girl to rape. Well,
20:59
Speaker 1: even if he has some regular relations, clearly his brain
21:03
Speaker 1: is not operating in a healthy way. It's highly likely
21:07
Speaker 1: there's some neurological disorder, certainly psychosis and need to control,
21:13
Speaker 1: dominate and act in such obsessive and evil ways. And fortunately,
21:18
Speaker 1: from the way you describe Kelsey and Greg, my heart
21:22
Speaker 1: felt condolences to you and your family. Kelsey sunny kind angelic.
21:30
Speaker 1: That kind of disposition can give an impression of an
21:33
Speaker 1: easy victim. And to go to one of the things
21:37
Speaker 1: you alluded to about your book, Nancy, the importance of
21:41
Speaker 1: being mindful to prevent such things that would include not
21:46
Speaker 1: sauntering walking in a very bold, assertive, direct, purposeful way
21:51
Speaker 1: in a place like a parking lot or open space.
21:54
Speaker 1: Because someone who looks like an easy catch for an
21:58
Speaker 1: evil minded person, um if they walk in a more
22:02
Speaker 1: assertive way may just may I mean thinking for an
22:07
Speaker 1: a a catch you know, I'm also curious Greg Smith,
22:11
Speaker 1: because when you speak of Kelsey, when you describe the investigation,
22:17
Speaker 1: the disappearance, the discovery of Kelsey's body, you sound like
22:24
Speaker 1: law enforcement. How do you even at the time when
22:28
Speaker 1: you go, don't touch the car? How do you steal
22:31
Speaker 1: yourself and speak so clearly about what happened. Well, it's
22:41
Speaker 1: it's training, Nancy. I mean, I've been in law enforcement
22:43
Speaker 1: now for twenty three years. Um. And I mean not
22:50
Speaker 1: to say that this hasn't had a huge emotional impact
22:53
Speaker 1: on me. It has, um. And you know I had
22:59
Speaker 1: my I had around with PTSD because of this and
23:03
Speaker 1: some other things that happened in law enforcement. And it
23:06
Speaker 1: was interesting in conversations that I had with my doctor
23:09
Speaker 1: that he would often tell me when we were discussing Kelsey,
23:14
Speaker 1: stop telling me this, like you're a cop. I want
23:17
Speaker 1: to hear what her dad has to say. Um, it's
23:20
Speaker 1: a it's a coping mechanism. M I talked about it
23:23
Speaker 1: a lot while she was missing. Um. I could analyze
23:26
Speaker 1: the case as a cop, and I could keep it together. Um.
23:29
Speaker 1: But when I switched over to dad, it was it
23:34
Speaker 1: was a lot harder. UM. So it was it was
23:38
Speaker 1: It was a way for me to function and think
23:40
Speaker 1: that I was doing something and feel that I was
23:43
Speaker 1: doing something to help find Kelsey. If I could stay
23:46
Speaker 1: in that, in that law enforcement mode and stay in
23:48
Speaker 1: that mindset, I hear what you're saying, it's easier to
23:51
Speaker 1: just kind of cut that off and deal with it.
23:56
Speaker 1: I guess professionally is the only way I can say it.
23:59
Speaker 1: But when you say you had PTSD, how did Kelsey's
24:09
Speaker 1: murder end up affecting you and your family? Well, that
24:15
Speaker 1: was another conscious decision that we made. I mean shortly
24:20
Speaker 1: after her body was recovered and we were starting the
24:23
Speaker 1: process of all the court hearings and everything that is
24:27
Speaker 1: entailed in a capital order case. We sat down as
24:32
Speaker 1: a family, my wife, Missy, and I with our kids,
24:34
Speaker 1: and we said, Okay, he gets no more. And just
24:39
Speaker 1: to be clear, he is Kelsey's killer. And also to
24:42
Speaker 1: be clear, I never mentioned his name. My goal has
24:45
Speaker 1: always been to make sure that Kelsey's story is promoted
24:48
Speaker 1: and not his, so I don't ever mention his name.
24:50
Speaker 1: That's just just something that I do. But he gets
24:55
Speaker 1: no more. He's taken Kelsey from us. He's not going
24:59
Speaker 1: to take our family's love for each other. He's not
25:02
Speaker 1: going to take our lives away. He's not going to
25:04
Speaker 1: take away the joy of later on, we now have
25:08
Speaker 1: seven with an eighth grandchild on the way from my
25:11
Speaker 1: other children. Those types of things, those are ours, and
25:15
Speaker 1: he doesn't get that. He gets no more. And so
25:18
Speaker 1: that was a conscious decision that the family made it
25:21
Speaker 1: that we actually sit down as a family and discussed it.
25:24
Speaker 1: The second conscious decision we made was that this is
25:28
Speaker 1: about Kelsey and that should be Kelsey's story and not
25:33
Speaker 1: his story, and so we always go out with that
25:37
Speaker 1: in mind. Kelsey Smith Foundation, that's one of the reasons
25:40
Speaker 1: that's out there is is to commemorate Kelsey's life and
25:43
Speaker 1: talk about the type of person she was. But then
25:45
Speaker 1: we also have our safety component. I speak all over
25:49
Speaker 1: the United States on safety techniques and safety awareness, being
25:55
Speaker 1: aware of your environment, those types of things, as well
25:57
Speaker 1: as I also go all over the United States and
26:00
Speaker 1: brief law enforcement. I do an actual case study on
26:03
Speaker 1: Kelsey's case WOW, and we work We work with states
26:06
Speaker 1: that have not yet passed to Kelsey Smith Back, which
26:08
Speaker 1: legislation that helps law enforcement bind missing people through cell phones,
26:14
Speaker 1: and talk to each each organization that I can in
26:18
Speaker 1: those states, and now twenty seven states out of fifty
26:22
Speaker 1: have a Kelsey smithlent to Dodgor Tim Gallagher, the medical
26:26
Speaker 1: examiner for the state of Florida at PATHCAREMD dot com.
26:33
Speaker 1: Dodgor Gallagher, can you, for instance, in Kelsey's case, determine
26:39
Speaker 1: how long she's been dead? That's a good question, Nancy. Actually,
26:43
Speaker 1: there are excellent studies, especially at some studies done by
26:48
Speaker 1: the University of Florida on the post mortem interval. One
26:52
Speaker 1: especially that comes to mind was done by doctor Leras Sutton.
26:57
Speaker 1: She came up with a formula that you plug in
27:00
Speaker 1: temperature and a body temperature, ambient temperature, etc. You can
27:05
Speaker 1: come up with a very accurate postmortem interval. You know.
27:09
Speaker 1: That's incredible to me, doctor Gallagher, And I know you
27:12
Speaker 1: look at it as a forensic pathologist, as a medical examiner,
27:16
Speaker 1: but I'm looking at it from a crime point of view,
27:20
Speaker 1: and to you Richard Trunk's PI with Crispin Special Investigations
27:25
Speaker 1: dot com. It's amazing to me and scary to me
27:31
Speaker 1: that all of this happened and such a short period
27:36
Speaker 1: of time. Kelsey was taken from the target shopping. She
27:41
Speaker 1: came out with the bag on our way to a car.
27:44
Speaker 1: Car was not that far from the door, and within
27:48
Speaker 1: a couple of hours it was all over and this
27:52
Speaker 1: young girl had been attacked and murdered, just like that.
28:10
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about the
28:14
Speaker 1: disappearance of Kelsey Smith and the death of Kelsey Smith,
28:19
Speaker 1: a gorgeous young girl. Her father joining us to you,
28:23
Speaker 1: Richard Trunce, Statistically, isn't that typical that the kidnapping and
28:30
Speaker 1: the murder occur much more quickly that people realize? I
28:36
Speaker 1: think it is. It does. It does occur very quickly
28:40
Speaker 1: most cases. You know, they tell you if it's not
28:42
Speaker 1: solving forty eight hours, then you know, try and get
28:45
Speaker 1: these cases solved. As time progressive comes a little bit harder.
28:50
Speaker 1: But a lot of these cases do happen very quickly,
28:53
Speaker 1: and you know, thankfully there are good law enforcement officers
28:56
Speaker 1: out there that I mean, Trunce, me just cut the chase.
29:01
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that minutes count. When you're starting
29:04
Speaker 1: to get to thirty six, forty eight, seventy two hours,
29:07
Speaker 1: the likelihood that the victim is dead just rises, you know, exponentially,
29:14
Speaker 1: So when you're getting on to twelve twenty four hours.
29:19
Speaker 1: The likelihood the victim is a lot is very low. Yes,
29:24
Speaker 1: that's true. You know, having the law enforcement officers get
29:27
Speaker 1: to the person that got the phone call, getting the
29:30
Speaker 1: law enforcement out there to start doing starting to talk
29:34
Speaker 1: to people. You know that that's extremely important because they're
29:37
Speaker 1: most fantasting. The officers are talking to other people, and
29:40
Speaker 1: in this incident, you have video for them all. So
29:43
Speaker 1: right away you have officers going over trying to secure
29:45
Speaker 1: video at the mall in the parking lot. So that's
29:49
Speaker 1: something happens really quick. But you know you have to
29:51
Speaker 1: get out. You got to talk and tearrogate the parents
29:53
Speaker 1: where the call originated from, trying to find out what
29:56
Speaker 1: happened right away and as quickly as possible. Guys take
30:01
Speaker 1: a list of our friends, an investigation discovery. They had
30:03
Speaker 1: a pretty solid case. They had him on the surveillance cameras,
30:06
Speaker 1: they had his fingerprints. I think the community was very
30:11
Speaker 1: ecstatic that they can wrap this up quickly. Part of
30:14
Speaker 1: his a plea agreement to avoid the death penalty was
30:18
Speaker 1: to give a full confession. Edmond told me that Kelsey
30:30
Speaker 1: was just a crime of opportunity. He'd been trolling Oak
30:34
Speaker 1: Park ball all day, was approaching ladies, asking him odd questions.
30:40
Speaker 1: He was looking for a particular behaviors and that's how
30:45
Speaker 1: he found her. Kelsey unfortunately, was totally oblivious to what
30:49
Speaker 1: was going on around her, focused on shopping, talking to
30:52
Speaker 1: her mom, or he just wasn't paying attention to what
30:55
Speaker 1: was going on around her. Kelsey was just his opportunity.
31:00
Speaker 1: She was at the target. He thought she had nice
31:04
Speaker 1: legs and told Detective Miller that he thought she was
31:08
Speaker 1: twelve and that the evil just overtook him. Greg Smith,
31:13
Speaker 1: you're Kelsey's dad. He thought she was twelve. Ay, that's
31:17
Speaker 1: a lie because he'd been following her driving around and
31:20
Speaker 1: b it is that supposed to make it better than
31:23
Speaker 1: he thought she was twelve. That would be a child
31:26
Speaker 1: attack and murder. Do you believe anything he said in
31:30
Speaker 1: his confession now? It is rather incredulous that he would
31:35
Speaker 1: think that she was twelve years old when he followed
31:37
Speaker 1: her car into the parking lot. And we often talk
31:41
Speaker 1: about that and how how strange that is that that
31:44
Speaker 1: description that you heard, that was actually my wife, Missy,
31:47
Speaker 1: talking about that. But you know what, You're right, Greg,
31:50
Speaker 1: Let's don't talk about him to hail with him. Let's
31:55
Speaker 1: just get rid of him right now. Let's talk about
31:58
Speaker 1: Kelsey and what, if anything, we can do to help
32:02
Speaker 1: other people. That's what this book. Don't be a victim
32:06
Speaker 1: fighting back against America's crime wave. It's all about I
32:11
Speaker 1: start this chapter off with describing scenarios, real scenarios that
32:16
Speaker 1: I investigated, prosecuted, or covered, and in them is a
32:20
Speaker 1: story of Kelsey. I follow it up with pages and
32:24
Speaker 1: pages of tips for you to stay protected. For instance,
32:30
Speaker 1: mega parking lots and garages are a predator's playground. Pick
32:35
Speaker 1: a central spot well lit because somehow you'll lose track
32:39
Speaker 1: of time inside and it gets dark. The same goes
32:42
Speaker 1: for when you park on the street, park where there
32:45
Speaker 1: are passer bys or hopefully even an attendant. Always note
32:50
Speaker 1: where you park. I now take a picture of it,
32:54
Speaker 1: especially at an airport or a big parking debt. Look
32:59
Speaker 1: at it before you leave the store, so you don't
33:01
Speaker 1: get out and parking deck number three or the green
33:04
Speaker 1: level and find out your car's not there at all.
33:07
Speaker 1: Isn't it true Greg that now so many cars have
33:12
Speaker 1: a fob with an emergency sound or a car horn
33:15
Speaker 1: on it. If you can't find it, tap it your
33:19
Speaker 1: car should make a sound to help you find it
33:21
Speaker 1: more quickly. Have your keys ready. Once you're in the car,
33:26
Speaker 1: shut the door, lock it immediately, and don't be fumbling
33:30
Speaker 1: with your bags or your cell phone as you walk.
33:35
Speaker 1: Look in the back seat just before you get in
33:38
Speaker 1: the car, because once you get in, if there's somebody
33:41
Speaker 1: back there, and I've worked with a lady that this
33:43
Speaker 1: happened to her and her children. If somebody's in the
33:45
Speaker 1: back seat and you're in the driver's seat, it's too late,
33:49
Speaker 1: it's over. Don't linger to look in as you open
33:53
Speaker 1: the door and get in, then look in. But I've
33:56
Speaker 1: got the consummate professional with me who is devoted his
34:00
Speaker 1: life to helping other people after what happened to his daughter, Kelsey.
34:06
Speaker 1: I've got pages and pages and pages of tips, Greg Smith,
34:10
Speaker 1: but I want to hear your tips. It sounds like
34:15
Speaker 1: you've been attending some of our training, Nancy. From your book,
34:18
Speaker 1: all of that is fantastic. I would say two big
34:26
Speaker 1: takeaways that people should have for personal safety is one,
34:31
Speaker 1: it's just being aware of their environment, what's going on
34:34
Speaker 1: around them. We get so caught up in what's going
34:39
Speaker 1: on on Facebook or Twitter as you're walking out in
34:41
Speaker 1: the parking lot and you've got your head buried in
34:43
Speaker 1: that cell phone. You've got no idea what's going on
34:45
Speaker 1: around you. So that would be my first one. The
34:49
Speaker 1: second one is always let somebody know where you're going.
34:53
Speaker 1: And I mean, if you know, if you're running to
34:56
Speaker 1: the store, you know, if I'm going to the store,
34:59
Speaker 1: I let me you know. I said, Hey, I'm running
35:01
Speaker 1: to you know, the price chopper or whatever. Um, if
35:04
Speaker 1: I stopped somewhere else, I'll text her and let her
35:07
Speaker 1: know that that or vice versa. She does that for me. Um.
35:11
Speaker 1: If at the very least, as in Kelsey's case, that's
35:16
Speaker 1: a starting point for an investigation. If somebody all of
35:19
Speaker 1: a sudden was missing and and you know, make no
35:24
Speaker 1: mistake about it. With Kelsey's case, that's what it was.
35:27
Speaker 1: She just didn't come home on time. There wasn't video
35:31
Speaker 1: immediately available to figure out what happened, And even after
35:34
Speaker 1: the video was obtained, it wasn't obvious what had happened.
35:37
Speaker 1: There had to be some work done on the video
35:39
Speaker 1: to figure it out. And so, I mean, all of
35:42
Speaker 1: a sudden, she just didn't come home, didn't There wasn't
35:46
Speaker 1: any indication necessarily the crime had been committed, so it
35:48
Speaker 1: was um the fact that we knew where she was,
35:52
Speaker 1: and the fact that she had these habits of letting
35:55
Speaker 1: us know when she changed location, and the fact that
36:01
Speaker 1: it allowed us in a very short amount of time
36:05
Speaker 1: to say something's wrong, something has happened. This is not normal.
36:09
Speaker 1: Beg Let me tell you a couple of are my tips.
36:11
Speaker 1: Always position your body to use your shopping cart as
36:15
Speaker 1: a shield or even a weapon. Laugh now, but thank
36:20
Speaker 1: me later. Use everything at your disposal, your pocketbook, your
36:25
Speaker 1: cell phone, the parking, this shopping cart. Keep it between
36:30
Speaker 1: you and everybody else. I know it sounds crazy, but
36:35
Speaker 1: it could save your life. Buy a mirror at a
36:40
Speaker 1: car wash or an AutoZone type store so that you
36:45
Speaker 1: can see all the way behind you, even if you
36:48
Speaker 1: have a minivan, that you can see what's happening around
36:52
Speaker 1: your car. These are simple tips that anybody can follow.
36:58
Speaker 1: There are pages and pages of them in a new book,
37:02
Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim. And before I sign off to
37:08
Speaker 1: Greg Smith, Kelsey's dad, tell us about your foundation, Greg Well.
37:14
Speaker 1: The Kelsey Smith Foundation was founded exactly one month of
37:17
Speaker 1: the day after Kelsey's death, and the purpose is to
37:22
Speaker 1: provide resources and education to public organizations, schools, lawmakers, whoever
37:30
Speaker 1: about personal safety, and we have several different seminars that
37:35
Speaker 1: we offer at the Foundation for that. And we also
37:40
Speaker 1: provide information about the Kelsey Smith Act, which was a
37:42
Speaker 1: law that was inspired by Kelsey started in Kansas, which
37:47
Speaker 1: allows law enforcement to gain quick access to location information
37:51
Speaker 1: only of a cell phone if the person has been
37:54
Speaker 1: determined to be missing or in danger a physical harm
37:58
Speaker 1: of death by law enforcement. The key to that is
38:02
Speaker 1: the night that Kelsey went missing, we were on the
38:04
Speaker 1: phone constantly with her cell phone provider trying to find
38:07
Speaker 1: out if they could tell us where her phone was at,
38:09
Speaker 1: and they kept saying that they could not let us
38:11
Speaker 1: know because she was eighteen years old. Despite the fact
38:14
Speaker 1: that the phone was actually in Missy's name, my wife's name,
38:17
Speaker 1: they still would not give us that information. That legal
38:21
Speaker 1: procedures were initiated to get that information, but it took
38:23
Speaker 1: three days to get it in and by the time
38:26
Speaker 1: by the time law enforcement got that information, it was
38:29
Speaker 1: late at night. They couldn't go out to the area
38:31
Speaker 1: and so they had to wait till the next morning.
38:33
Speaker 1: They went out to the tower that last made contact
38:35
Speaker 1: with Kelsie's phone and found her body within forty five minutes.
38:39
Speaker 1: So no Greg. And that is why you've got to
38:42
Speaker 1: have five my iPhone activated, your tracking device on your
38:46
Speaker 1: phone activated. We have life three sixty. There's a million
38:51
Speaker 1: ways to stay safe and please at Tom then Nancy
38:57
Speaker 1: Gray time story, signing off, Goodbye,