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Transcript

22 Panels Episode #205 - What is a Medium? · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to episode 205 of 22 Panels, coming to you on October 12th, 2025. I am Tad. He is Phil across the interwebs.
• 0:20
  Phil: Excellent.
• 0:24
  Tad Eggleston: I just… Weird.
• 0:25
  Phil: That last one sounded, I did, I'm stuck at it.
• 0:28
  Tad Eggleston: pinned it… pinned him to a wall. You know, it's a good thing.
• 0:31
  Phil: Good thing you didn't cover my mouth, because, we're still, you know, we are well, well stuck.
• 0:37
  Phil: Stuck… stuck on…
• 0:47
  Phil: And Tad just muted me for, he couldn't even hear my language.
• 0:51
  Tad Eggleston: your mouth.
• 0:51
  Phil: He did! I don't know how I… I chewed through it. Can you chew through webbing? Is that, like, the gum.
• 0:57
  Tad Eggleston: That never expires. I don't know. Maybe I came up and just ripped it off.
• 1:01
  Phil: There we go.
• 1:02
  Phil: Alright.
• 1:04
  Phil: Oh, man, it has… it's only been a week! It's only been a week since we've talked. It's,
• 1:12
  Phil: Yeah, this, this past.
• 1:14
  Tad Eggleston: This is why we're starting with comic news, Phil.
• 1:16
  Phil: That's fair! I, you know, time has been…
• 1:19
  Tad Eggleston: We're starting with comic news, because one of them is one of those things that I've known about for…
• 1:26
  Tad Eggleston: time, and finally get to talk about…
• 1:30
  Phil: Wow. So, we're… I mean, well…
• 1:32
  Tad Eggleston: And, and that is, Brutal Dark. Yep. Brutal Dark, which is, like, way back in 2020.
• 1:47
  Tad Eggleston: One of the series that got delayed by the pandemic.
• 1:50
  Tad Eggleston: was… That Texas blood.
• 1:56
  Phil: Oh… okay.
• 1:58
  Tad Eggleston: Issue… issue 1 got delayed by the pandemic.
• 2:01
  Tad Eggleston: And… and… Chris and Jacob were… were very young.
• 2:07
  Tad Eggleston: N.
• 2:08
  Tad Eggleston: needed money, so they started a Patreon.
• 2:13
  Tad Eggleston: Where they did a comic called Brutal Dark.
• 2:17
  Tad Eggleston: Which is A.
• 2:21
  Tad Eggleston: Investigator in 1940s New York City who gets tangled up in a theft from the gods via a museum heist.
• 2:30
  Tad Eggleston: Main character's name is Ezra Kane, and the book is being branded as an Ezra Kane Mystery.
• 2:35
  Tad Eggleston: The team hopes to do new Ezra Kane stories in six-issue blocks.
• 2:40
  Tad Eggleston: But it's a, it's a, it's a, like, noir book.
• 2:46
  Tad Eggleston: from.
• 2:47
  Tad Eggleston: from Condon Phillips.
• 2:50
  Tad Eggleston: you know… Punching out Nazis.
• 2:53
  Phil: Right, and the buried lead, for anyone who didn't hear the wild news over the weekend…
• 3:00
  Tad Eggleston: I was getting there, I was getting there.
• 3:02
  Phil: Okay.
• 3:02
  Tad Eggleston: But what… and this is part of what I've known.
• 3:05
  Phil: Huh.
• 3:06
  Tad Eggleston: I have known for quite some time now.
• 3:09
  Tad Eggleston: that they sold it to Vertigo.
• 3:11
  Tad Eggleston: In fact, I…
• 3:13
  Phil: DC, not just Black Label, but Vertigo.
• 3:15
  Tad Eggleston: I heard… that Vertigo was coming back.
• 3:20
  Tad Eggleston: Because they sold it. So I had to sit on, oh my god, Vertigo's coming back for a while.
• 3:27
  Tad Eggleston: And I had… I've had to sit on this, like, I mean, we heard that Vertigo was coming back, what, 6 months ago?
• 3:33
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I remember, I remember hearing a vague announcement. And, like, that entire time, I have known that this was gonna be one of the books.
• 3:40
  Phil: Oh, okay.
• 3:42
  Phil: Well, definitely congrats to.
• 3:44
  Phil: Chris and Jacob, you know.
• 3:46
  Tad Eggleston: Big congrats to Chris and Jacob, and, so happy to see more of this, because, like…
• 3:54
  Phil: I didn't realize there was a.
• 3:55
  Tad Eggleston: by the…
• 3:56
  Phil: Central twist to this one.
• 3:57
  Tad Eggleston: By the end of, like, the second arc?
• 4:00
  Phil: Yeah, it's like a supernatural twist, almost in an Indiana Jones way. Oh, okay, so it's really subtle, it's not overly prominent.
• 4:08
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 4:09
  Phil: For some reason…
• 4:10
  Tad Eggleston: But at least the stuff that I've read so far.
• 4:12
  Phil: Without having read any of it, I want to compare it to Fattell, for some reason.
• 4:16
  Tad Eggleston: Right. But so… So, I… I am… So psyched, this is finally.
• 4:27
  Tad Eggleston: coming back, in my mind, because I literally became an early patron of theirs just so I could read.
• 4:35
  Phil: Oh?
• 4:36
  Tad Eggleston: The Brutal Dark Comics on Patreon.
• 4:41
  Phil: So they've got, you said, about 2…
• 4:43
  Phil: Not just two issues, but two full arcs, two full books.
• 4:46
  Tad Eggleston: No, they had about 2 issues, but I don't even know if those issues are part of this.
• 4:51
  Phil: Oh, okay, I see.
• 4:52
  Tad Eggleston: Or if they're a different story, because it's been a long time since I read them, and, like, I don't remember some of the stuff, so, like…
• 4:59
  Phil: Yeah.
• 5:01
  Tad Eggleston: But yeah, so, like, Vertigo returning and that being one of the books announced is super exciting to me. Also announced, and almost as exciting, Dennis Camp and Stepan Morian are getting back together.
• 5:15
  Tad Eggleston: For a book called Bleeding Hearts that looks also amazing.
• 5:19
  Phil: Yeah. That, that one's…
• 5:22
  Tad Eggleston: That was probably my most exciting. That's 10 years after the fall of humanity?
• 5:26
  Tad Eggleston: Always a good time. The Bouldering Hands of the Zombie Apocalypse is the same team from 20th Century Men. Kyle Starks and Steve Pugh are getting back together again for a book about end of life, about a professional hitman who runs afoul of a boss.
• 5:41
  Tad Eggleston: A cabal of international assassins.
• 5:45
  Tad Eggleston: The short pitch for End of Life, says Starks, is it's John Wick Goes to Northern Exposure.
• 5:55
  Tad Eggleston: Nice house by the Sea, everybody knew was gonna be moving over. Black Tower the Raven Conspiracy from Ram V and Mike Perkins also looks…
• 6:06
  Tad Eggleston: Fantastic, and perhaps the one that Took the most oxygen .
• 6:15
  Phil: Mmm.
• 6:16
  Tad Eggleston: Brian Azzarello and Eduardo Rizzo are doing another Lano… 100 Bullets miniseries.
• 6:25
  Tad Eggleston: 100 Bullets, the U.S. of Anger.
• 6:29
  Tad Eggleston: Did they?
• 6:30
  Phil: Did they explicitly say it was, it's gonna be a miniseries again? You don't think… because they…
• 6:35
  Tad Eggleston: I, I, I, I think I heard that.
• 6:38
  Tad Eggleston: But I guess it doesn't say that in this article.
• 6:41
  Phil: I… yes, and I, I mean.
• 6:42
  Tad Eggleston: So we'll see.
• 6:43
  Phil: I really enjoyed the, the previous brother alone.
• 6:46
  Tad Eggleston: Brother Lano?
• 6:47
  Phil: Absolutely, yeah, it was good.
• 6:49
  Tad Eggleston: Tom Taylor and Derek Robertson are doing a book called Necrotaceous, which is, like, zombie dinosaurs.
• 6:58
  Tad Eggleston: Grace Ellis and Hannah Templar, Fanatic. Yeah.
• 7:03
  Phil: That one looks… that's probably… that's gonna be tough.
• 7:06
  Tad Eggleston: A Waking Shadow from Simon Spurrier and Aaron Campbell.
• 7:10
  Phil: Walking Shadow.
• 7:12
  Tad Eggleston: A walking shadow, you're right.
• 7:13
  Phil: That was close.
• 7:14
  Tad Eggleston: That's probably the one that you're most all over?
• 7:17
  Phil: I mean, yeah, it's tough, it's like, it's one of those things where I'm like, how dare you announce 10 books, 7 of which I am highly interested in.
• 7:25
  Tad Eggleston: The Crying Doll by Mariko Tomaki and Rosemary Valera O'Connell.
• 7:31
  Phil: Yeah, that's another one where I feel like…
• 7:34
  Tad Eggleston: Like, which three are you not interested in, and can I just bitch slap you now?
• 7:38
  Phil: I mean, so… Necrotaceous, I'm… I'm so-so on.
• 7:44
  Tad Eggleston: Derek Robertson drawing zombie dinosaur.
• 7:48
  Phil: That's fine.
• 7:49
  Tad Eggleston: When has… and when, when has Tom Taylor ever let us down?
• 7:54
  Phil: I, I actually don't know if I've…
• 7:57
  Phil: read a full book of Taylor's, you know, so I… it's… it…
• 8:02
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I admit, he does mostly superhero stuff, so I haven't read a ton of his stuff, but every time I read it, it's good.
• 8:08
  Phil: And that's…
• 8:09
  Tad Eggleston: that right sense of humor to, like, totally work with this, as does Robertson with his art.
• 8:14
  Phil: Right, so it's… I mean, again.
• 8:16
  Tad Eggleston: Derek Robertson on Zombie.
• 8:17
  Phil: I agree.
• 8:18
  Tad Eggleston: resource should be all you need.
• 8:20
  Phil: I will read… again, this… this isn't… this isn't about reading or not, because I'll read all these, you know. Okay. Robertson… Robertson drawing dinosaurs, I'll read almost anything he… he draws.
• 8:30
  Phil: it… again, this… the Black Tower one is one that…
• 8:34
  Tad Eggleston: Ram? That's really good.
• 8:35
  Phil: I know! I know, it looks great! It's gonna be great! It's just, it… when I'm thinking, I'm like, okay, I can't buy all of these, so which ones am I not… am I not gonna… or actually, no, no, no, that… that one does look good. It's… I haven't read the Nice House series yet, and the end of life looks… it… it didn't quite… so those are the ones.
• 8:52
  Tad Eggleston: Kyle Starks?
• 8:55
  Phil: I haven't read any… I know you're just… it's like you said, it's every one of these. Every one of these is, is, you know, they better spread out the, the releases so that they don't, completely take over your top three every week, or have to fight each other.
• 9:10
  Phil: I think the ones I'm most likely to actually buy are probably Bleeding Hearts and Fanatic, and then, Walking Shadow, if I… if, you know, if I had to pick… but then I… and then I… and then, of course, the Valario O'Connell one. It's tough. It's gonna be tough. I… I really hope that my comics budget can continue to expand, by next year.
• 9:30
  Tad Eggleston: another part from that That particular panel.
• 9:38
  Tad Eggleston: As… as probably none of our listeners remember, though, like, if we have any listeners that can remember this, it's fantastic.
• 9:48
  Tad Eggleston: back in 1989, when Rick Feich was doing his run on Swamp Thing after Alan Moore's run.
• 9:58
  Tad Eggleston: He… he… Wrote an issue where Swamp Thing was present at…
• 10:06
  Tad Eggleston: Jesus' crucifixion, and the management thought that that was, that was over a line, and… and Weich said, okay…
• 10:17
  Tad Eggleston: okay, I'm done.
• 10:21
  Phil: Respect. Respect for Vitesch.
• 10:23
  Tad Eggleston: And the run was never Korea.
• 10:25
  Tad Eggleston: completed.
• 10:27
  Phil: Until now.
• 10:29
  Tad Eggleston: starting in April, the four issues that would complete that run, as written by, by…
• 10:41
  Tad Eggleston: Rick Feich and, with the then-artist on the series, Tom Mandrake, and colorist Trish Mulvihill, will be printed. So there will be an alternate. This is kind of… it looks like it's actually gonna be part of Black Label, even though it was announced at, at…
• 11:00
  Tad Eggleston: So this is kind of like the… the… and I still need to go read this, the… the… the alternate Jason Todd story?
• 11:09
  Phil: Alternate Jason Todd's… oh, oh, they did publish that, didn't they?
• 11:12
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. They published a story they would have published if the fans had not killed him.
• 11:18
  Phil: Right, right.
• 11:20
  Tad Eggleston: it's.
• 11:21
  Phil: A different version of 88 through 91 of Swamp Thing.
• 11:25
  Tad Eggleston: coming. So, this is actually… that's pretty cool to me. Yeah.
• 11:31
  Phil: I mean, it's… it's one of those things that's… that's… whoever… whoever this is healing, I appreciate that, you know, because it was one of those things that happened before I was…
• 11:42
  Tad Eggleston: Right, right.
• 11:42
  Phil: Even boring!
• 11:44
  Tad Eggleston: their, Jeff Lemire and Dustin Wen, announced their new creator-owned series, Crowd… Crowbound.
• 12:00
  Phil: Yo.
• 12:01
  Phil: There is just a cavalcade of news coming out of.
• 12:04
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and there will be more today and tomorrow. Exactly.
• 12:07
  Phil: Yeah, that was the other thing I was.
• 12:09
  Tad Eggleston: So this is just, first…
• 12:13
  Tad Eggleston: first days of… yeah, I think that's all the heavy NYCC stuff, except for, Harvey Awards were announced.
• 12:21
  Tad Eggleston: And as is traditional, we like to call out our guests who were nominated or won. First, big winner, Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees by Patrick Horthoff was the Book of the Year.
• 12:38
  Tad Eggleston: multiple-time guest Tom King, along with Bilkus Evely, who we haven't met yet, were among the runners-up in Book of the Year for Helen of Windhorne.
• 12:49
  Tad Eggleston: Jeremy Whitley, got robbed and didn't win a young adult book,
• 12:57
  Tad Eggleston: for navigating with you. I say this without remembering who actually won, so, like.
• 13:03
  Tad Eggleston: Raised by Ghost was really, really good, so… maybe not robbed, but I always like to say robbed when it's, like, one of our guests.
• 13:17
  Tad Eggleston: A book he did at Mad Cave Maverick with, Casio Ribeiro and Nikki Foxx Robot.
• 13:25
  Tad Eggleston: What kind of week has it been, Phil?
• 13:28
  Phil: Yeah, this is returning to my hesitation.
• 13:30
  Tad Eggleston: Like, like, I live in Chicago.
• 13:32
  Tad Eggleston: I feel like that's all I need to say.
• 13:34
  Phil: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:37
  Tad Eggleston: Not quite in Chicago, but, like, close enough.
• 13:41
  Phil: Chicagoland.
• 13:41
  Tad Eggleston: One of my wife's coworkers got a, Text… Because… The school that her kids go to…
• 13:56
  Tad Eggleston: they had… taken parents… From cars that drop off.
• 14:02
  Phil: Oh, God.
• 14:03
  Phil: Wow.
• 14:04
  Tad Eggleston: So they were organizing
• 14:08
  Tad Eggleston: a group of parents to start being there at drop-off every day. And they knew that her husband
• 14:17
  Tad Eggleston: Worked from home, so they wanted to get ahold of him.
• 14:21
  Phil: Jeez.
• 14:22
  Phil: It is.
• 14:23
  Tad Eggleston: This is just ridiculous. You know, they shot… They shot a fucking pastor in the head with a non-lethal round? Did you not see this?
• 14:32
  Phil: I didn't see that. I, I am… you know, this… so…
• 14:36
  Tad Eggleston: Presbyterian pastor who was among the protesters at
• 14:45
  Tad Eggleston: the Broadview Detention Center, the one that they won't let Duckworth and Senators Duckworth and Durbin Tour. Wow.
• 14:56
  Tad Eggleston: You know, as is their right and responsibility as U.S. Senators to conduct oversight.
• 15:05
  Tad Eggleston: There was a Presbyterian pastor in a collar, in a robe, Very clearly, In a position of prayer.
• 15:20
  Tad Eggleston: Shot in the head by laughing agents on the roof.
• 15:24
  Phil: Yeah, that's… that's fucked up. That's.
• 15:27
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, the upside is, like…
• 15:30
  Tad Eggleston: People who have gone against the Trump administration and, and…
• 15:38
  Tad Eggleston: in the last week include Joe Rogan for immigration stuff, Marjorie Taylor Greene!
• 15:46
  Phil: For healthcare.
• 15:49
  Tad Eggleston: And, a couple of different…
• 15:57
  Tad Eggleston: Republican governors, there was actually… I love this quote, from, like, like, the, the… The… governor of…
• 16:15
  Tad Eggleston: Governor of Oklahoma was the first to speak out, saying, you know, we would throw… we would have thrown a fit if J.D. Pritzker sent
• 16:25
  Tad Eggleston: Illinois National Guard to Oklahoma under the Biden administration.
• 16:29
  Phil: Jeez.
• 16:31
  Tad Eggleston: But, I think I like this even better. Republican Governor Phil Scott of Vermont.
• 16:39
  Tad Eggleston: said, I don't think our guard should be used against our own people. I don't think the military should be used against our own people. In fact, it's unconstitutional. Unless, of course, there's an insurrection, much like we saw January 6th, a few years ago.
• 16:57
  Phil: Damn.
• 16:59
  Phil: Yeah, yeah, it's good.
• 17:03
  Tad Eggleston: So, I mean, the upside is there's a
• 17:06
  Tad Eggleston: fucking lot of resistance, and I encourage everybody to participate in some way for the next No Kings rally on…
• 17:14
  Tad Eggleston: October 18th, which, whatever the Speaker of the House says is not a Hate America rally. In fact, I think, I think that, that, like, and if anybody's listening, like, spread this word, like, I think that the, the…
• 17:34
  Tad Eggleston: the marching hymn of the No Kings rally should be America the Beautiful.
• 17:39
  Phil: Interesting, okay. Yeah, I mean, when I went out to the previous one a few months ago, there were plenty of people absolutely celebrating America.
• 17:48
  Tad Eggleston: Aha!
• 17:48
  Phil: Like, a very…
• 17:51
  Phil: The mythology, the American mythology of the American Revolution, like, we identify as underdogs and upstarts, so, rebelling against the government is absolutely American, you know?
• 18:04
  Tad Eggleston: The next, like, small piece of resistance that I encourage everybody to do is anytime you're around somebody that says Antifa.
• 18:12
  Phil: Death?
• 18:13
  Tad Eggleston: particularly in a negative way, say, you mean anti-fascist? Does that mean you're pro-fascist? I thought you guys weren't fascists. You get upset when we call you fascists.
• 18:24
  Phil: As someone online.
• 18:25
  Tad Eggleston: Pro-fascist?
• 18:26
  Phil: the dude wearing.
• 18:27
  Tad Eggleston: Not anti-fascist?
• 18:28
  Phil: the dude wearing the Antifa shirt, it's like, alright, now reduce your fraction.
• 18:33
  Phil: What are you?
• 18:39
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Phil: Yeah. The little bit of the bright spot in all of this has been what's going on in Portland for me.
• 18:47
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, yeah, except that, that, I mean, the…
• 18:49
  Phil: It's horrible.
• 18:50
  Tad Eggleston: similarly in Portland is.
• 18:51
  Phil: They are.
• 18:52
  Tad Eggleston: R.
• 18:52
  Phil: It's horrible, but the visible form of resistance of people dressing up in.
• 18:57
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.
• 18:57
  Phil: inflatable animal costumes, dancing and mocking all of these, you know, the military in their face, making them look, you know, it's, as someone said, turn the other cheek means make your opponent look like a dumbass for attacking you, and that is exactly what this is doing. So…
• 19:14
  Tad Eggleston: That…
• 19:15
  Phil: It's given me hope. A few.
• 19:16
  Tad Eggleston: I mean.
• 19:17
  Phil: That freaks of Christ.
• 19:18
  Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna say right here, I actually have the greatest respect for the men and women in enlisted service.
• 19:27
  Tad Eggleston: But I also am pretty certain that very few of them signed up to do this.
• 19:32
  Phil: Yeah, I was gonna say, if ever there was a time to refuse orders due to patriotism.
• 19:39
  Tad Eggleston: Well, not even due to patriotism. It is a crime to follow an unconstitutional order. You are being given unconstitutional orders. Will you wind up spending time in Leavenworth while it…
• 19:52
  Tad Eggleston: Yes. But are you gonna win? Yes.
• 19:56
  Phil: Yeah, this is… this is… it's tough, it's tough, but… but…
• 19:59
  Tad Eggleston: Whereas, and this is where, like, this is the part that, that, like, puts a pit in my stomach. It's gonna get worse, because anybody with half a brain understands that they have crossed the line where anybody involved in this shit.
• 20:20
  Tad Eggleston: Is going to prison if this regime ends.
• 20:23
  Phil: Yeah.
• 20:25
  Phil: I mean, we can only hope.
• 20:27
  Phil: we can only hope, you know? They're… they're… and the…
• 20:31
  Phil: it… yeah, it's… there's a lot of ifs involved there. I hope we get there.
• 20:37
  Tad Eggleston: You know…
• 20:38
  Phil: Yeah.
• 20:41
  Tad Eggleston: Like, you know, there's a point where people do things ideologically. There's a point where people do things opportunistically.
• 20:52
  Phil: But then there's also a point where they realize that.
• 20:56
  Tad Eggleston: Not only have they crossed lines, but the majority of the people around them know it.
• 21:01
  Phil: Yep.
• 21:02
  Phil: And I think we're hitting that. I think…
• 21:04
  Tad Eggleston: past it. I think it's in the rearview mirror.
• 21:08
  Phil: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, again, you have Joe fucking Rogan.
• 21:13
  Phil: That's what I mean. That's what I mean, is that the… when you have Republican governors speaking out and reminding people about that, hey, January 6th was an insurrection, it wasn't just, like, a group party. This is not… well, not only that January 6th was an insurrection, but that this is not.
• 21:29
  Phil: Yeah, yeah, and that this is… this is something worse. This is now… This is… this is,
• 21:36
  Phil: This is getting into horror show territory.
• 21:38
  Tad Eggleston: And again, like, I think that's why we're seeing more and more crazy-ass shit happening, because…
• 21:49
  Tad Eggleston: What do you do?
• 21:53
  Phil: Yeah.
• 21:54
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it becomes…
• 21:57
  Tad Eggleston: Particularly because it's like, it's not like they can offer to turn state's evidence yet.
• 22:04
  Phil: What do you mean by that? I just…
• 22:06
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, they can't try to cut themselves a deal by
• 22:09
  Tad Eggleston: against each other, because who can they do that with?
• 22:13
  Phil: They'd be testifying against… yeah, they'd be testifying against themselves to themselves, so…
• 22:17
  Tad Eggleston: So, like, to stop now means to risk the wrath of the people that…
• 22:27
  Tad Eggleston: You have been working for, and you know damn well what their wrath looks like, because you've been inflicting it.
• 22:34
  Phil: Yeah, and I think… and so here's the thing, is that…
• 22:36
  Tad Eggleston: Non-stop is to understand that
• 22:44
  Tad Eggleston: Your future is bleak.
• 22:48
  Tad Eggleston: Unless this regime stays in power.
• 22:51
  Phil: Right, and I think that it's too late for anyone who's been on TV in support of this, you know? The Chrissy Gnomes, the Stephen Millers, they're… the Pete Hatchett, they're all good…
• 23:02
  Tad Eggleston: I think, arguably, in some ways, it's gonna be even harder for the rank-and-file ICE agents.
• 23:09
  Phil: Absolutely, and that's… that's where I was gonna say, if… if by any small sliver of chance that any… anyone in that group, anyone who is being ordered out to American cities to… to post up is listening to our little podcast, please let.
• 23:27
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, honestly, take advantage of the shutdown. Say, oh, you're not paying me, I quit.
• 23:33
  Phil: Yeah. Please, please, you know?
• 23:38
  Phil: All those sorts of things. I think that, that unfortunately…
• 23:40
  Tad Eggleston: Speaking of which, the military families will not receive their paychecks next week.
• 23:47
  Phil: Oh, shit.
• 23:48
  Phil: That's… It's gonna be pretty hard to order troops when you're not feeding.
• 23:53
  Tad Eggleston: Republicans in the House and Senate?
• 23:56
  Tad Eggleston: Tried to pass a resolution that would have… paid them…
• 24:00
  Tad Eggleston: Democrats said, no, no, we already passed a resolution.
• 24:03
  Phil: Okay.
• 24:03
  Tad Eggleston: pay them, it's the continuing resolution. You can pass that.
• 24:08
  Tad Eggleston: And I just reversed that. Democrats in the House and Senate.
• 24:13
  Tad Eggleston: Republicans said, By the way, Republican… Republicans have still not returned to the House.
• 24:19
  Phil: Mmm.
• 24:21
  Tad Eggleston: Because to return to session in the House would mean
• 24:25
  Tad Eggleston: swearing in the new representative from Arizona, who would then sign the discharge petition requiring a vote on the release of the Epstein papers.
• 24:37
  Phil: Hmm.
• 24:43
  Phil: Certainly, certainly…
• 24:45
  Tad Eggleston: Just… just chew on all of that.
• 24:49
  Phil: Yeah, there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on.
• 24:52
  Phil: So, yeah, it's… the world is a difficult, scary place.
• 24:57
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, so let's talk some new-to-order books. Exactly.
• 25:01
  Tad Eggleston: Barbaric is returning, The Long Death from Michael Maurici and Nathan Gooden. WHAT!
• 25:08
  Tad Eggleston: You didn't think we'd come back?
• 25:09
  Tad Eggleston: Barbaric loves you. Axe loves you, and he's giving you his heart in the form of the long death. Our heroes slaughter their way, ever closer to the answers to their big questions. Owen learns all about his curse, Sorin learns all about her curse, Axe gets drunk.
• 25:27
  Tad Eggleston: The consequences are barbaric.
• 25:30
  Tad Eggleston: Out from Vault on December 3rd.
• 25:36
  Phil: Alright, and next up, we've got Black Panther Intergalactic from Victor Lavelle and Stefano Nessi over at Marvel Comics. The Intergalactic Emperor of Wakanda, T'Challa, the King of Wakanda, faces the challenge of uniting all of his kingdom, on Earth and in the stars. Before he can begin, though, someone or something steals him away to a mysterious planet where the Black Panther must fight for his life
• 26:00
  Phil: Shuri, his sister, works to find him, but with the king and princess distracted, will someone else seize the title of Emperor of Wakanda?
• 26:08
  Phil: That's gonna be… In stores, December 17th, again, from Marvel.
• 26:16
  Phil: And next up, we've got Drumsticks of Doom from John Westhoff and Dan Dougherty.
• 26:24
  Phil: When Black Sabbath, not the Beatles, became the world's most famous band, the universe was changed, musically and otherwise. Lost arts like alchemy were made common, schools taught about transfiguration and alternate science.
• 26:39
  Phil: Demons were summoned, and some stuck around. Lana loves music. She has played in bands all through high school, and now in college, she still plays in her ex's fledgling metal band. Secretly, she also
• 26:51
  Phil: She stays so she can play her own music after her ex leaves band practice. At her age, she's starting to think pursuing music might not be the path destined for an independent songwriter. With the Billboard music charts being dominated by the heaviest of metal, Lana is content practicing her songs with her bandmate Jimmy.
• 27:09
  Phil: Bands like hers are doomed to the local scene. She's not even brave enough to find a full band. The two-piece are finishing up their best practice yet when they are drawn into a spiritual battle to keep metal on the top of the charts. It's gonna be in stores December 3rd.
• 27:25
  Phil: from… this is…
• 27:27
  Tad Eggleston: That's from the… the magnetic…
• 27:31
  Phil: Magnetic presence.
• 27:32
  Tad Eggleston: Massive…
• 27:34
  Tad Eggleston: The Massive Small Press is the distributor. I'm looking up the name of their press, because this is actually local to me.
• 27:42
  Phil: Oh, yeah, this looks awesome, this sounds really great.
• 27:44
  Tad Eggleston: Ba-buh-ba-buh… I… I forget what they call their press right now.
• 27:53
  Phil: Oh no. And I'm not.
• 27:56
  Tad Eggleston: signing.
• 27:57
  Phil: it quickly.
• 27:57
  Tad Eggleston: enough.
• 27:58
  Phil: Let me see… Part-time comics, that's…
• 28:03
  Tad Eggleston: Yes.
• 28:03
  Phil: Yeah, okay.
• 28:04
  Tad Eggleston: That's it. That's it.
• 28:05
  Phil: Alright.
• 28:06
  Tad Eggleston: comics.
• 28:06
  Phil: Part-time comics, Drumsticks of Doom… check it out.
• 28:11
  Tad Eggleston: So, yeah. I've actually read some of this. It's good stuff. We should reach out to John and Dan.
• 28:18
  Phil: Heck yeah.
• 28:20
  Tad Eggleston: I'm so…
• 28:28
  Tad Eggleston: Trigger warning, a Terry… a Strangers in Paradise story from Terry Moore. I've actually so happily read this, because it was… it was a bonus with his last Kickstarter.
• 28:43
  Tad Eggleston: One-shot comic book features Strangers in Paradise stars Catu and Francine as you've never seen them.
• 28:50
  Tad Eggleston: In the Old West, can Civil War veteran Katieu find true love in a small western town? She can if Francine lives there, but first, our weary soldier will have to battle quick-tempered outlaws and the quickest gun in the county.
• 29:05
  Tad Eggleston: In stores on December 3rd from…
• 29:13
  Tad Eggleston: Why am I… why am I forgetting Terry's…
• 29:16
  Phil: Strangers in Paradise? yeah, yeah.
• 29:21
  Phil: Back to this… Abstract Studio.
• 29:25
  Tad Eggleston: Yes.
• 29:27
  Tad Eggleston: Abstract Studio.
• 29:31
  Phil: I won't tell him before. Yeah, it's morning.
• 29:33
  Tad Eggleston: It's morning, so, some,
• 29:37
  Phil: How much coffee have you had, Dad?
• 29:39
  Tad Eggleston: I'm still working on my first. All the Living from Roman Murdoff at Fana Graphics. Waking up in purgatory, a young woman is forced to take part in a lottery, which she wins. Unfortunately for her, since she has had enough of life, the prize is to return
• 29:59
  Tad Eggleston: to the living world and continue her life from where she had left it, with one significant difference. This time, she can see and communicate with ghosts, her own included. Her dull, monotonous life carries on, though her profound solitude is now mitigated by the presence of the ghosts of the dead surrounding her.
• 30:19
  Tad Eggleston: Most notably her own. She discovers that living with her ghost has its advantages, with few disadvantages. All of the living is a meditation on monotony, hopelessness, and the absurdity of existence. In the face of sadness and emptiness.
• 30:35
  Tad Eggleston: Roman Muradov's graphic style, full of finesse and sensuality, quite literally draws us into his enchanting imagination.
• 30:42
  Tad Eggleston: A parable at the same time gentle, penetrating, and occasionally profane that marks the return of a master of the modern graphic novel. From Fanta Graphics on December 3rd.
• 30:55
  Phil: Yeah, that sounds really incredible.
• 30:58
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 30:59
  Tad Eggleston: I get to go two in a row. This one's from Z2 Comics, the… the…
• 31:04
  Tad Eggleston: the, reigning champions of music-related comics, The Final Symphony, a Beethoven Anthology. Celebrate Ludwig Wad and Beethoven's 250th birthday with an anthology of comics inspired by the maestro's life and music.
• 31:24
  Tad Eggleston: Fantasy and history, fables and ghost stories, adventure and romance, this tome of tales is written by Brandon Montclair and Frank Marafino, and features a dozen visual artists who reflect on the breadth of Beethoven's influence. Carefully curated, readers will experience both masterpieces.
• 31:43
  Tad Eggleston: And lesser-known gems in a brand new light. Artists include Jarrett Williams, Dave Chisholm, Louisa Russo, Alice Mechie.
• 31:52
  Tad Eggleston: Lee, Shane White, Ryan Kelly, Liana Congis, and a beautiful cover by David Mack.
• 31:59
  Tad Eggleston: in stores on December 10th.
• 32:05
  Phil: Alrighty, and next up, we've got Mid-State from Lee Lewridge and Matt Chatter. When Paul Rinaldi sleeps, he sees things. But after his precarious career as a small-town clairvoyant dissolves under claims of fraud, he becomes the laughingstock of the small town of Fort Arlington, Virginia.
• 32:24
  Phil: The fact is, Rinaldi is wildly gifted, only furthering his frustrations as a middle-aged mystic. But a string of missing persons cases, coupled with terrifying visions, gives Rinaldi a new purpose. Rinaldi teams up with the town's rookie detective, Abigail Dolan, to solve the cases using his psychic abilities. Together, they will get to the bottom things, or die trying.
• 32:45
  Phil: In stores, December 10th, from Batcave.
• 32:52
  Tad Eggleston: There it is.
• 32:58
  Phil: Was this… I thought you highlighted this one.
• 33:07
  Tad Eggleston: Oh?
• 33:08
  Tad Eggleston: I guess I not highlighted 3 on accident.
• 33:11
  Phil: Oh my.
• 33:13
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, that's okay. I'll do it.
• 33:16
  Tad Eggleston: I'll totally do it.
• 33:19
  Tad Eggleston: This one looks good.
• 33:21
  Tad Eggleston: Stray from Molly Mendoza, Stray follows Jack, a chaotic, romantic, spiraling into disaster, desperately seeking comfort in others while ignoring their own destructive tendencies, while thoroughly hung up on the past.
• 33:37
  Tad Eggleston: Jack meets Stray, and their whole world changes. Tender and sensual, lush and palpable, Stray ushers in a new era of cartoonist Molly Mendoza's wholehearted approach to making comics and telling stories. This is from
• 33:52
  Tad Eggleston: Titan?
• 33:53
  Tad Eggleston: And in stores on…
• 33:56
  Phil: Yeah, that's… that's an invalid date.
• 33:58
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:59
  Phil: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Tad Eggleston: I'm.
• 34:01
  Phil: It sure was.
• 34:02
  Tad Eggleston: We're not certain.
• 34:04
  Phil: But keep your eyes and ears peeled.
• 34:06
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 34:07
  Phil: Yeah, the cover is very striking.
• 34:09
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, wait a minute. Is there… oh, wait a minute,
• 34:13
  Phil: So, that one was robust.
• 34:14
  Tad Eggleston: Stray. We read this…
• 34:16
  Phil: And then this framework…
• 34:17
  Tad Eggleston: That was, that was…
• 34:18
  Phil: We did this one last.
• 34:19
  Tad Eggleston: Titan that, who knows, that's already out. The one that was not… that's one from Not Titan. I don't know what that was from, that's already out. This one's from Titan. From the hit creators of Last Inning, follow an ex-convict's path to redemption, riddled with vengeance.
• 34:36
  Tad Eggleston: Betrayal and deadly conspiracies.
• 34:39
  Tad Eggleston: The stakes are too high for him to strike out off the pitch. After serving 9 years for a crime he didn't commit, Hachia Ken is free, but his past is far behind him. Released from prison, he's confronted by Hannah, the fiery daughter of a ghost from his past. Together, they're forced to navigate
• 34:57
  Tad Eggleston: Deadly web of betrayal, Yakuza power, and political corruption. This one is in stores.
• 35:04
  Tad Eggleston: December 3rd, 2025, from Titan Books, but I also kind of want to find that, that…
• 35:11
  Phil: The Molly Mendoza one?
• 35:12
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, the Molly Mendoza one. This is Ryo Cameo and Yu Nakahara. They, they both, look, look fantastic. So, yeah, the Molly Mendoza is, is,
• 35:26
  Tad Eggleston: It's just a A.
• 35:28
  Tad Eggleston: A, a extra, extra.
• 35:31
  Phil: I guess, recommendation without any previous knowledge? Right.
• 35:37
  Phil: A bonus…
• 35:38
  Tad Eggleston: So I could… I could see myself reading it by next week.
• 35:42
  Phil: Exactly, yeah. I will try just about any comic with a cat in it. Next up, there is Rack and Rune from Chris Cappel, Alex Ariesmendy, and.
• 35:54
  Tad Eggleston: Was it 2022?
• 35:58
  Phil: For the Mendoza?
• 35:59
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 36:00
  Phil: Oh, okay, gotcha, so that was a while ago. So this.
• 36:03
  Tad Eggleston: Flooligan Press.
• 36:05
  Phil: Hooligans?
• 36:06
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, Booligan does good stuff.
• 36:07
  Phil: Booligan, Booligan, okay. Alrighty.
• 36:10
  Phil: 19-year-old Rory Denborough was born into magic by way of the insular society known as the Translators. For his entire life, Rory has been given control over a world of awe-inspiring wonders. Telekinesis, shapeshifting, teleportation, advanced healing, even time travel.
• 36:26
  Phil: Everything is possible thanks to his family's enchanted bloodline and ancient language passed down through generations.
• 36:33
  Phil: Rory's life is full of miracles, but he's not happy, because Rory's world is also a world of secrets. Translators hide in the shadows, keeping their power from the world around them. Rory struggles in this secrecy, sneaking out of his family's hidden high-rise apartment to blend into the wonderfully normal streets and people of New York City.
• 36:51
  Phil: After sneaking out one night, Rory meets Tyson, an outsider who knows nothing about translators or their gifts.
• 36:58
  Phil: Soon, the two young men are falling in love, but this idyllic romance starts to fall apart once Rory reveals his magical origins. Tyson raises a question, one that Rory has never considered and now must contend with. Why keep magic secret when so many people can be helped by it? Truth and terrible danger soon follows.
• 37:15
  Phil: In stores December 3rd, from Maverick Mad Cave.
• 37:22
  Tad Eggleston: Alrighty.
• 37:24
  Tad Eggleston: Couple of collections. I was a fashion…
• 37:28
  Tad Eggleston: School Serial Killer from Doug Wagner and Daniel Hilliard. We've talked extensively with Doug about this book. Rennie Bethary has just been accepted into New York's most prestigious fashion school. Her designs are daring, edgy, and singular, and made of human flesh.
• 37:45
  Tad Eggleston: Did we forget to mention Rennie is a serial killer who simply wants to be a fashion designer instead? Stupid, pesky, murderous urges, in stores on December 3rd.
• 37:56
  Phil: So, Ted, would you rather be a coat or pants?
• 38:00
  Tad Eggleston: I'd like to be a cap.
• 38:03
  Phil: Okay, there we go!
• 38:05
  Phil: Alright, and next up from Heavy Metal, we have… Tarana.
• 38:11
  Tad Eggleston: The iconic female sword-wielding warrior from the classic heavy metal film Tarana comes to the printed page for her first comic book adventure. I'm pretty certain it's Tarna?
• 38:22
  Phil: Tarna. Oh, my bad. That is Tarna. You are right. I tried to read the graphic from the cover that was obscured, as opposed to the plain text next to it. So yes, Tarna, iconic human.
• 38:34
  Tad Eggleston: I haven't read enough heavy metal. I haven't, clearly! Iconic heavy metal character.
• 38:39
  Phil: Yeah, I mean, I've seen Heavy Metal, I've seen the movie, I definitely have not read… Well, Tarna… Tarna actually.
• 38:46
  Tad Eggleston: Debuted in the movie.
• 38:50
  Phil: Okay, yeah, yeah. So, here is her comic series written by Alex DeCampi, illustrated by Isao and Isaac Escorza, colors by Carlos Cabrera.
• 39:02
  Phil: Heavy Metal's iconic warrior stars in her first trade paperback, all-new tale of mortal warrior's quest to avenge and justice. A city besieged by demons seeks salvation from a hero.
• 39:13
  Phil: When a hero from forgotten legends mysteriously arrives. One hell of a battle ensues in stores December 3rd, from… this one also says MP, that's… is this,
• 39:25
  Phil: Oh goodness, it's not Titan. Is it Titan? I thought heavy metal…
• 39:28
  Tad Eggleston: This is heavy metal.
• 39:30
  Phil: Heavy metal? Heavy metal. Okay, I should know that heavy metal is from heavy metal.
• 39:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:39
  Tad Eggleston: Some final order cutoff, we have Batman and Static Beyond, number one, from Evan Narcisse, and Nicholas Draper Ivey, and I neglected to put the damn date on it, probably December…
• 39:53
  Tad Eggleston: 3rd, or November 26th, somewhere in there.
• 39:59
  Tad Eggleston: Briar, Night's Terror, number 1, from Christopher Cantwell, and Alex Linz, from Boom on December 3rd. Devil on My Shoulder, number 1, from Kyle Starks, Peter Kowalski at Dark Horse on November 26th. Die Loaded, number 1, from Kieran Gillen, Stephanie Hans at Image on November 12th.
• 40:16
  Tad Eggleston: Free Planet Volume 1, if you, like me, weren't smart enough to get on this.
• 40:23
  Tad Eggleston: Right off the bat, with single issues. This is… Like, totally…
• 40:36
  Tad Eggleston: Totally a great book. Get caught up with the first volume from Aubrey Siderson and Jed Doherty at Image on November 26th, and then pick up…
• 40:46
  Tad Eggleston: I think issues 7 and 8 won't be collected, so… so they're late.
• 40:50
  Phil: Good, huh.
• 40:50
  Tad Eggleston: Back history type thing.
• 40:52
  Phil: Interesting.
• 40:53
  Tad Eggleston: Heaven West Virginia from Ravi Tekshara at Oni on November 12th. I Am Their Silence from Jordy Lefevre, Dark Horse on January 20th, Liquidator No. 1 from Peter Milligan and Peter Kowalski at Mad Cave on November 12th.
• 41:08
  Tad Eggleston: Making Nonfiction Comics, a guide for graphic narratives from Ellery Harris and Shay Merck at Abrams on November 12th, Socrates from Francesco Borilli, and Alessandro Rangioski at Beko Gallo.
• 41:24
  Tad Eggleston: Gallo slash Mad Cave on November 12th, and Under York from Sylvain Runberg and Mirka Andolfo at Image Comics on November 26th. Crowdfunding, we have Macabre Valley No. 1 from Zach Quaintance and Anna Redman on Kickstarter through October 15th. Go listen to our
• 41:44
  Tad Eggleston: chat with Zach about this,
• 41:48
  Tad Eggleston: Comic Shop Anthology from Lifeline Comics.
• 41:52
  Tad Eggleston: at Kickstarter through October 23rd. Dracula Book 3, The Count, from Matt Wagner and Kelly Jones on Kickstarter through October 30th. I read Book 1 this week. It was
• 42:03
  Tad Eggleston: fantastic. I'm generally not a vampire Dracula-type guy, and, like, they made me one.
• 42:11
  Tad Eggleston: Feeling Messed Up from David F. Walker on Kickstarter on October 30th, his mental health book, Our Long National Nightmare from fantastic political cartoonist Tom Tamaro.
• 42:27
  Tad Eggleston: On Kickstarter through October 30th, The Dead and the Damned, number 3, from Sebastian Gerner, Kelly Williams, Goats Flying Press on Kickstarter until October 31st. The Sink, Halloween Special No. 1 from John Lees and Alex Cormac, Killustrator.
• 42:45
  Tad Eggleston: Comic Stribe on Kickstarter until October 31st, Comics Courier issue 3 from Tiffany Babb on Kickstarter through November 1st, and Rigsby, Wisconsin Volume 2, Burn It Down, from S.E. Case at Iron Circus on Kickstarter until November 6th.
• 43:04
  Phil: And one more, which is a mangaka, a Kaiju, and Omega from Juan Ponce and Lurd Noise on Zoop for 27 more days, so mid-November.
• 43:15
  Tad Eggleston: You gotta get better at, like.
• 43:18
  Phil: Adding those notes in, I know. Yeah. Yeah.
• 43:21
  Phil: Yeah, I'm a very… I'm a very… I need to work on that.
• 43:26
  Phil: Last minute.
• 43:29
  Tad Eggleston: so…
• 43:35
  Phil: Tell us about your amazing books this week.
• 43:37
  Tad Eggleston: This was a…
• 43:39
  Phil: It looks like a stacked week.
• 43:41
  Tad Eggleston: I could have gone 9 deep… with graphic novels.
• 43:48
  Phil: Emm…
• 43:51
  Tad Eggleston: I could have easily gone 3 deep, and probably more than that, with Issue 1s.
• 43:58
  Phil: Yeah.
• 43:59
  Tad Eggleston: And I could have easily gone 3 deeps with continuing series.
• 44:07
  Tad Eggleston: So, I'm gonna do a, a…
• 44:11
  Tad Eggleston: WIC run-through of the highlight highlights of my honor roll mentions, slash the ones that I actually got to, because…
• 44:21
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't even get to all of my honorable mentions, because again, when I could have gone 9 deep with graphic novels,
• 44:29
  Tad Eggleston: I did a lot of reading this week.
• 44:34
  Tad Eggleston: But… but from the honorable mention category, check out Batman The Last…
• 44:38
  Tad Eggleston: Halloween, number 9. Death to Pacheco, number 1. Deluge, number 1. Everybody Dead and Dying, number 2. Falling in Love on the Path to Hell, number 10, Free Planet, number 6. The Future Is number 6, The Guy in the Chair, number 1.
• 44:51
  Tad Eggleston: High Strangeness, number 1, Lost and Found, Mary Sue, number 1, Masterminds, number 2, Physics for Cats, Power Fantasy No. 12, Red Book Volume 1, number 1, Return to Planet Hulk, number 1, Star Trek Lower Ducks, number 12, Superman the Kryptonite Spectrum, number 3, Temporal, number 1, and especially…
• 45:11
  Tad Eggleston: Uncle Scrooge, Flintheart Glomgold's Sinister Secret Number 1, that it was really hard to leave off of my top 3 list. And for that matter, I also realized that I didn't actually
• 45:23
  Tad Eggleston: fully add in all of the graphic novels, because graphic novels, it's harder to know in advance what's coming out, so really quick, let me add…
• 45:34
  Tad Eggleston: I'm, I'm.
• 45:35
  Phil: I'm driving off on you with the last-minute notes here.
• 45:37
  Tad Eggleston: Hillary Campbell's The Joy of Snacking?
• 45:40
  Phil: I'll actually be seeing her stand-up performance tomorrow night.
• 45:45
  Tad Eggleston: For my wife's anniversary.
• 45:47
  Tad Eggleston: My wife and I's anniversary. My Life in 24 Frames Per Second by Rintaro, and to think we started as a book club from Tom Toro.
• 46:01
  Tad Eggleston: Not done.
• 46:04
  Phil: That is a… that is truly just a shocking amount of comics right now.
• 46:09
  Tad Eggleston: And Angelica, and the Bear Prince by Trung Li Wei.
• 46:14
  Phil: Oh, yeah.
• 46:16
  Tad Eggleston: Those are all graphic novels that needed to be added to the amazing list, and that I've read at least significant portions of, because, like.
• 46:28
  Tad Eggleston: It's one of those rare times where I've been triaging my reading. I've been reading graphic novels, like, a chapter at a time to try to make my full decision on, like, what my three amazing books are.
• 46:43
  Tad Eggleston: And the winners are…
• 46:45
  Tad Eggleston: Black Arms to Hold You Up by Ben Passmore at Pantheon, a history of Black resistance in America. Megalopolis.
• 46:55
  Tad Eggleston: From Francis Ford Coppola, Chris Ryle, and Jacob Phillips at Abrams, I have a feeling that overall, this is gonna be one of my controversial takes. I haven't seen the movie.
• 47:07
  Tad Eggleston: I now want to see the movie a little bit more, but, also…
• 47:12
  Tad Eggleston: absolutely certain that the book that I read and loved as a comic could not be made into a movie, and it's gonna be interesting to see how a master like Coppola tried.
• 47:23
  Phil: Yeah, I heard… I haven't heard anything great about Megalopolis.
• 47:28
  Tad Eggleston: No, it's mostly that it's a hot mess, and I understand why that would be, because the comic is so layered. And I don't know how much of that is Coppola's vision, and how much of that is Ryle and Phillips…
• 47:42
  Tad Eggleston: like… jumping… from the skeleton and making something even greater out of it. But, like, it…
• 47:54
  Tad Eggleston: It shows how we can destroy ourselves from both a right and left
• 48:01
  Tad Eggleston: Way, while still showing, like, a hopeful…
• 48:07
  Tad Eggleston: path to the future. It, it pulls on, the historic fall of the Roman Empire and, and puts it in an American setting.
• 48:22
  Tad Eggleston: it… It emphasizes how, in many ways, the biggest Thing that can get…
• 48:31
  Tad Eggleston: In our way, no matter what our philosophy is, is human ego.
• 48:38
  Phil: Hmm.
• 48:40
  Phil: Yeah, I can see that.
• 48:41
  Tad Eggleston: Like, I…
• 48:44
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't have time, but this is one of… one of the books that I finished reading it, and I… and I kind of wanted to just start it over again. Wow. And there's a good chance that I will actually read it again today.
• 48:57
  Phil: Wow.
• 49:00
  Tad Eggleston: I… you know, and… and…
• 49:03
  Tad Eggleston: I've heard mixed things, both from people who read it ahead of time, and, like, secondhand from…
• 49:11
  Tad Eggleston: people involved in it, in terms of, like, what they felt about it and whatever,
• 49:18
  Tad Eggleston: But, like, I honestly…
• 49:27
  Tad Eggleston: honestly thought it was a masterpiece. It, it, like…
• 49:33
  Tad Eggleston: It's got layers and depth in a way that, like, you need comics.
• 49:41
  Tad Eggleston: It made me… made me sit back and think that a wonderful, wonderful experiment
• 49:47
  Tad Eggleston: Would be to have a movie house where…
• 49:53
  Tad Eggleston: Every script, when it got to shooting script stage.
• 49:58
  Tad Eggleston: Went to a director and went to a comic creative team that didn't work together.
• 50:04
  Tad Eggleston: To see what came…
• 50:09
  Phil: That would certainly be interesting.
• 50:11
  Tad Eggleston: you know…
• 50:12
  Phil: Oh, yeah.
• 50:12
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, honestly, like, my, my, like, it made me really dream, like, like…
• 50:24
  Tad Eggleston: have the full-on media house, where every script got made into both a… a…
• 50:33
  Tad Eggleston: Book, or both a comic and a movie, and every novel you published got adapted to comic form, just to, like…
• 50:43
  Tad Eggleston: Have those comparisons.
• 50:46
  Tad Eggleston: To really explore on multiple levels the mediums where part of
• 50:59
  Tad Eggleston: Part of the assignment, for lack of a better term, to the people working on things are, lean into your mediums.
• 51:09
  Phil: Yeah, I think…
• 51:10
  Tad Eggleston: Do this in a way that only your medium can do it.
• 51:14
  Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah, and that's, that's definitely an interesting thought about it, because, you know, so often.
• 51:23
  Phil: comics, and especially, like, in a case like this.
• 51:26
  Phil: there'll be… there'll be, you know, a byproduct of adaptation, you know, so that… I think it would be really interesting to truly see, alright, if you take one story and develop it in multiple mediums simultaneously, the differences that arise, that actually does sound really fascinating now that… once you get into it. I think it…
• 51:46
  Phil: It'd be difficult to pick…
• 51:50
  Phil: I mean, like, you can know where I see some of that with, like, classic literature adaptations, we're getting more of those from comics now, you know, like, was it, Slaughterhouse-Five, and…
• 52:00
  Tad Eggleston: Waterhouse 5 was amazing.
• 52:02
  Phil: Yeah.
• 52:04
  Phil: The various adaptations of Frankenstein that exist.
• 52:08
  Tad Eggleston: The, the, the recent adaptation of,
• 52:15
  Tad Eggleston: da-da-da-da-da… what's the word I was looking for?
• 52:19
  Tad Eggleston: Gatsby.
• 52:20
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah. A couple of really fantastic adaptations of Gatsby.
• 52:25
  Tad Eggleston: That definitely, I think, captured it better than any of the movies have. The movies have all captured
• 52:32
  Tad Eggleston: parts of it.
• 52:34
  Tad Eggleston: And not parts of it.
• 52:36
  Phil: Yeah.
• 52:37
  Tad Eggleston: And a lot of that has been due to… various, limitations of the film medium.
• 52:48
  Tad Eggleston: You know, they haven't been strictly because, oh, like, you didn't have talented people working, it's that, like.
• 52:56
  Tad Eggleston: There are things that… that… that film's not good at.
• 53:00
  Phil: Absolutely. And I mean, like, again, one of the… one of the…
• 53:06
  Phil: arguments that I've seen go around that, thankfully, I don't see, recur too often is, one that I had with an old friend, back in the day, where he said, oh, comics are just, they're just storyboards. They're just, you know, they're just like movies that haven't been filmed yet. And I was like, no!
• 53:25
  Phil: Absolutely not.
• 53:27
  Tad Eggleston: I mean.
• 53:28
  Phil: They do so much more than just storyboards.
• 53:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yes, but, like…
• 53:34
  Phil: And, like, to see comics as something that need to be turned into another medium to be completed is wrong, and goes against comics themselves being the greatest storytelling medium of humankind.
• 53:46
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, oh, absolutely, absolutely, but what I was actually going is also that, like, there are times where, like…
• 53:56
  Tad Eggleston: to… You can tell that… A movie didn't properly storyboard.
• 54:05
  Phil: Right, right.
• 54:08
  Phil: You can absolutely.
• 54:09
  Phil: When the visual direction is just… not there.
• 54:13
  Tad Eggleston: like, conversely? Too many static shots.
• 54:19
  Phil: Yeah.
• 54:20
  Tad Eggleston: any…
• 54:21
  Phil: Well, I was gonna say, conversely, I think you can see, certain comics that want to be filmed, you know? I feel like I've definitely read a few rejected movie pitches in comic book form.
• 54:33
  Phil: To varying degrees of interest and success. You know, I will never get over… there was a time I saw a fucking lens flare in a comic panel, and it drove me insane. It's…
• 54:44
  Tad Eggleston: See, no, it doesn't necessarily drive me insane. I mean…
• 54:48
  Phil: Okay, it can be used… Interestingly, when, you know…
• 54:53
  Phil: If you're looking through a camera in a shot, and you need that lens flare, but when it's a lens flare for dramatic effect on a comic panel.
• 55:01
  Tad Eggleston: That makes no sense to me! I would have… like, again, I would have to, like, see it, because,
• 55:10
  Tad Eggleston: One of the beauties of comics is that you can literally bring in
• 55:16
  Tad Eggleston: Anything that works well in other storytelling mediums.
• 55:22
  Phil: Except for sound.
• 55:24
  Tad Eggleston: Sure you can.
• 55:25
  Phil: Just put it on while you're reading.
• 55:28
  Tad Eggleston: No, go fucking read Z2 music books, and tell me you don't wind up hearing…
• 55:35
  Phil: Right, but I mean, I… what I mean by that, I mean, yeah, you can have…
• 55:39
  Phil: you can… you can integrate those elements, but it's still…
• 55:43
  Tad Eggleston: For that matter, tell me that, like, a good letterer can't make you hear sound effects.
• 55:49
  Phil: No, I do. I absolutely do, but what I mean by that… I mean, for that matter, you know, I hear people's voices as I read, you know? It's like the only… it's the only cra… it's the only storytelling medium that, like.
• 56:02
  Tad Eggleston: Is any good at bringing smell in.
• 56:08
  Phil: Interesting. Interesting. I have not read a Scratch and Sniff comic yet, but I'm open to it.
• 56:14
  Tad Eggleston: I'm not talking about Scratch and Sniff Comics.
• 56:16
  Phil: Talking about…
• 56:17
  Tad Eggleston: like, fucking Mad Magazine.
• 56:19
  Phil: Oh, okay, interesting.
• 56:22
  Phil: Interesting.
• 56:23
  Phil: Like, just with the… the art, and it feels like it has a smell to it, the synesthesia comes through. With various… with various motion lines, or… or… Oh, stink lines, yeah, yeah.
• 56:34
  Tad Eggleston: Right. I mean, like… I reject pretty much any limitation anybody ever… Tries to… Put upon…
• 56:53
  Tad Eggleston: comic storytelling.
• 56:56
  Tad Eggleston: Are there certain things that are certainly harder?
• 56:58
  Phil: Yeah.
• 56:59
  Tad Eggleston: Sure.
• 57:00
  Phil: Yeah, so two, two.
• 57:02
  Tad Eggleston: I don't often talk about how great the sound of a comic is.
• 57:07
  Tad Eggleston: 42.
• 57:09
  Phil: Right, so the, the two things real quick. One, interestingly enough, fun fact, I, I have no sense of smell. So that was a really interesting one to bring up, two, so I think, I think what's…
• 57:23
  Phil: the one piece that's kind of stopping me from agreeing with you there is that those elements are not inherently within the comic, they are things that you are bringing from your own experience and then attaching to the comic. You know, inherently, the comic does not
• 57:43
  Phil: It does not contain any smells. It does not contain any sounds, it is silent, but you bring the smells, you bring the noise, you bring the motion, you know, it's bringing that out of you.
• 57:53
  Tad Eggleston: So you're saying that because it's a less passive medium?
• 57:57
  Tad Eggleston: The things that it evokes aren't as powerful?
• 58:01
  Phil: No, I'm just saying that they're coming from you rather than from the comic itself.
• 58:05
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, like…
• 58:07
  Phil: The comic is bringing water.
• 58:08
  Tad Eggleston: Doesn't… doesn't… doesn't matter what the medium is, the most important
• 58:14
  Tad Eggleston: Part of what you get from it is coming from you anyway.
• 58:18
  Phil: Yeah, but…
• 58:20
  Phil: So, so, to… to continue this analogy, when I watched, the Rings of Power series when it first came out, I had no idea what was going on. I… I don't know what the story they were trying to tell was, I watched it, I kind of zoned out and had my own thoughts and fanciful, you know, the way I was interpreting things, I was amused by.
• 58:39
  Phil: But that is how I would describe that experience. Watching it, I was amused by my own reaction to it, more so than what was actually there.
• 58:48
  Phil: And that's where I would argue that the inherent difference is that Films contain sound.
• 58:56
  Phil: Comics do not contain sound. They contain representations of sound that you then interpret and turn into sounds within your mind, but that's very different from there being audio within the pages of a comic.
• 59:06
  Tad Eggleston: But most films don't contain Like, voiceovers for thoughts?
• 59:14
  Tad Eggleston: But… Can they… can they convey them?
• 59:22
  Phil: I mean…
• 59:27
  Tad Eggleston: Do you ever find yourself talking about a film where you'll say, this person was thinking this or that?
• 59:37
  Phil: I'm sure it's happened, but again, that… that's the kind of thing that… Yes.
• 59:45
  Phil: It's the kind of…
• 59:47
  Tad Eggleston: Prose, but… prose by very definition, doesn't have pictures, but how often does our favorite prose
• 59:59
  Tad Eggleston: Is it our favorite prose because of the visuals that it evokes?
• 1:00:04
  Phil: Yeah, but again, you're still using the word evokes there. You wouldn't say that the pictures.
• 1:00:08
  Tad Eggleston: But I'm saying, like, Storytelling is about evoking.
• 1:00:15
  Phil: Yes.
• 1:00:17
  Tad Eggleston: So, to discount any aspect of it, because…
• 1:00:22
  Tad Eggleston: The collab… because of the collaboration with the… the reader, watcher, listener, whatever, it…
• 1:00:36
  Tad Eggleston: It feels like a misunderstanding of, of, like… The concept to begin with.
• 1:00:47
  Phil: So, the reason… the reason why I am on the other side of this from you is because
• 1:00:53
  Phil: The sounds and smells you get out of a comic are not…
• 1:01:00
  Phil: definitively going to be the same that I would get out of a comic, or anyone else would.
• 1:01:04
  Phil: You know? And that's… that's why I say that it's not in there. The smell of a comic is not the kind of thing that every reader is going to get in the same way from the same images. It's just not going to happen.
• 1:01:18
  Tad Eggleston: But, like, I mean, if we start getting into the science here, like, the color in every comic isn't gonna be the same for every reader either.
• 1:01:29
  Tad Eggleston: Because how we see color is defined by how we define color in our head.
• 1:01:36
  Phil: I…
• 1:01:36
  Tad Eggleston: Like, if you don't have… Well, we're still receiving the same wavelengths of white color. If you don't have a word for blue, you won't see it.
• 1:01:48
  Phil: Is it really the word?
• 1:01:50
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:01:54
  Tad Eggleston: Like, like, they've done studies on, on, like, they're, they're still… because blue tends to be…
• 1:02:01
  Phil: I know blue is different, because that was the last, visible…
• 1:02:05
  Tad Eggleston: The last named color.
• 1:02:06
  Tad Eggleston: almost any… it has nothing to do with the wavelength, it's just the last named color in any…
• 1:02:12
  Phil: The cone in our eyes was the last to develop.
• 1:02:15
  Tad Eggleston: The cones are…
• 1:02:16
  Phil: red, green, and blue. I mean, if we… we wouldn't.
• 1:02:18
  Tad Eggleston: Sure, but…
• 1:02:19
  Phil: Who comes to see blue.
• 1:02:21
  Tad Eggleston: There is almost no blue naturally occurring in nature.
• 1:02:26
  Phil: Yes. Yes.
• 1:02:27
  Tad Eggleston: So it's the last color defined by any given…
• 1:02:32
  Tad Eggleston: language. Except Egyptian, because that's the one place that you have actual blue flowers, rather than dyed blue flowers.
• 1:02:43
  Tad Eggleston: They did tests using color swatches.
• 1:02:48
  Tad Eggleston: In the Amazon jungle, with a tribe that still didn't have a word for blue.
• 1:02:51
  Phil: Huh.
• 1:02:52
  Tad Eggleston: Where people would insist that the blue corner was the exact same color as the green next to it.
• 1:02:59
  Phil: Hmm.
• 1:03:02
  Phil: And that's… that's one where… I remember you mentioning this before, and I think my reaction then is the same now, where I would be interested to know if they have the same three cones in their eyes that we do.
• 1:03:12
  Tad Eggleston: that…
• 1:03:17
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's mildly possible, but they started seeing it when they were given a word for it.
• 1:03:23
  Phil: Oh, interesting. Interesting.
• 1:03:26
  Phil: Okay, I think I see where you're coming from now.
• 1:03:30
  Phil: That… that definitely muddies things. It definitely muddies things. I mean, I mean, cause… well, but that's the thing. I mean, there's a mountain of evidence about how, yes, we have cones in our eyes to see things, blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah. But, like.
• 1:03:44
  Tad Eggleston: We don't… we take in, like, 1% of…
• 1:03:49
  Tad Eggleston: What we think we're seeing at any given moment.
• 1:03:52
  Tad Eggleston: And we fill in the blanks with our head.
• 1:03:55
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:03:56
  Tad Eggleston: You know, good readers have trouble with reading tests because there's always a question about how, you know, where's the grammatical error? And if they actually read the passage, there's a really good chance that they corrected it in their head and never actually saw it.
• 1:04:16
  Phil: Right, and because of that, what I'm saying is that there's a chance that people could correct it in their head slightly differently because of the variations of…
• 1:04:25
  Tad Eggleston: That's my… that's my point. That is true.
• 1:04:28
  Phil: Yeah, but, but…
• 1:04:29
  Tad Eggleston: color, that is true of the picture, that is true of motion pictures, that is true of every medium. Nobody is having the exact same experience.
• 1:04:39
  Phil: Right, but…
• 1:04:40
  Tad Eggleston: So, so why, why is what the, the creator evoked
• 1:04:45
  Tad Eggleston: Versus what the Creator laid out.
• 1:04:48
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, there are mediums that are all about evacuation.
• 1:04:52
  Phil: Right, right, but we're getting away from it. So, the evocation is inherently external from the artwork.
• 1:04:59
  Phil: from whatever the piece is. That's what I'm trying to say here, is that those… the experience you have that connects with it, sure, it's connected to it. It might be part of your association with them, but it's not going to be inherently contained within the pages, and it's not going to be inherently accessible to other people.
• 1:05:15
  Phil: Who… who have the… as… as close of the same experiences as… as you can.
• 1:05:22
  Tad Eggleston: What great work of art does everybody experience the same way?
• 1:05:28
  Phil: It's not about experiencing the same way, it's about if, if, you know, let's, let's say, like, if you listen to Beethoven.
• 1:05:38
  Phil: The… the notes that are there
• 1:05:41
  Phil: are going to be the same for everyone. How you feel about the notes that are played is going to be different, but
• 1:05:46
  Phil: I mean.
• 1:05:47
  Tad Eggleston: What I'm saying is, how you feel…
• 1:05:50
  Phil: What it evokes?
• 1:05:52
  Tad Eggleston: And the myriad of things that it evokes is generally what makes it great.
• 1:05:57
  Phil: I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm saying that that.
• 1:05:59
  Tad Eggleston: That is separate.
• 1:06:00
  Phil: from the work itself.
• 1:06:03
  Tad Eggleston: It is, but I think for most artists, it's the thing that matters.
• 1:06:09
  Phil: Sure, but again, it's inherently not…
• 1:06:11
  Tad Eggleston: So…
• 1:06:11
  Phil: in the orc.
• 1:06:12
  Tad Eggleston: Well…
• 1:06:14
  Phil: And that's what I'm trying to say, is I'm trying to say that those… the experience you have when reading a comic is not…
• 1:06:21
  Phil: container.
• 1:06:22
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, then what's…
• 1:06:23
  Phil: What's.
• 1:06:25
  Tad Eggleston: Then what's the difference?
• 1:06:27
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, if that's true… If it's not an inherent piece of the work.
• 1:06:36
  Tad Eggleston: Why shouldn't I make an AI comic?
• 1:06:39
  Phil: why shouldn't you? Whoa, that's a pretty big leap. That's a huge…
• 1:06:44
  Tad Eggleston: Is it?
• 1:06:44
  Phil: Yeah, that's a huge, huge leap to me, because it's… it's… what… why… why would… first of all, why would you make an AI comic in the first place? Second of all, what does that have to do with the difference between what.
• 1:06:56
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but we just said all of… all of the… Well, but you said all of the elements don't… don't…
• 1:07:05
  Tad Eggleston: I'm saying that your individual.
• 1:07:07
  Phil: response is not inherently contained within a piece of artwork. It's contained within you.
• 1:07:14
  Tad Eggleston: That is true.
• 1:07:16
  Tad Eggleston: But if the purpose of the artwork, if, like, you're judging the ability of the artwork to do something based on what's inherently contained in the artwork.
• 1:07:28
  Tad Eggleston: than… What's special about the artwork?
• 1:07:35
  Tad Eggleston: What's precious about the artwork?
• 1:07:38
  Phil: The craft and intent.
• 1:07:44
  Phil: that…
• 1:07:44
  Tad Eggleston: But the intent is to evoke.
• 1:07:48
  Phil: The intent is to invoke… so that's where intent is definitely slippery, where it matters, but it is not the absolute end-all to me, and I guess what I'm trying to say is that.
• 1:08:00
  Tad Eggleston: You know… And if the craft is… is… .
• 1:08:06
  Phil: Craft is very closely linked with intention.
• 1:08:09
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but if the craft is as important as intent, why are there beautifully crafted comics with even good intent that we don't love, because they're almost too beautifully crafted, and therefore they miss out on…
• 1:08:27
  Tad Eggleston: Some of the comic-type stuff, and then there are very loosely crafted comics, but that evoke more, that are.
• 1:08:36
  Tad Eggleston: Great works of storytelling.
• 1:08:38
  Phil: And the thing is, is that…
• 1:08:42
  Phil: people aren't going to inherently agree with that categorization for each one. There are people that might see the loose one.
• 1:08:49
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely true, but…
• 1:08:50
  Phil: But what I'm saying is that, again, I would say that smells and sounds of a comic go into the reaction category, as opposed to the… what is on the page.
• 1:09:03
  Phil: category.
• 1:09:04
  Phil: Unless it's a scratch-and-sniff comic, the smell is not on the page, to get back to where this kind of started from.
• 1:09:11
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, don't get me wrong, the Scratch and Smooth comic last year was cool. Yeah.
• 1:09:15
  Tad Eggleston: But, yeah, no, I think what's on the page is what you take from the page, not…
• 1:09:25
  Phil: I think that'.
• 1:09:25
  Tad Eggleston: on the page.
• 1:09:26
  Phil: I think that's inherently so…
• 1:09:29
  Phil: I think that's inherently wrong, unfortunately. So, like, what you take from the page is going to be your own interpretation, but that doesn't mean that that was on the… like, not everyone is going to see it on the page in the same way.
• 1:09:42
  Tad Eggleston: And again, that's true of, like… Every part of the page.
• 1:09:53
  Tad Eggleston: People can define words differently, people can take syntax and grammar differently, people can see different, you know, read different things into expressions, like…
• 1:10:07
  Phil: For example, no one should argue against me saying that the first page of the Power Fantasy says Part 1, Heroes and Villains. Those literal words are right there. You're not gonna say, no, no, no, it actually says Part 2, Villains and Heroes.
• 1:10:21
  Phil: If you have to You might, but again, we're talking about the difference between
• 1:10:26
  Phil: what is there, and what we think is there. And I'm actually… so I'm remembering… this is… this is an old story about criticism, where there are two…
• 1:10:35
  Phil: sommourniers who come to a tiny independent village, and they try the wine that they have there. They say, oh, this is our best… this is our best wine. And they take sips, and they're like, hmm, I'm getting a little bit of metallic and a little bit of shoe leather. And the people of the village are offended, and they run them out of town, because they're like, how dare you say our best wine tastes like metal and shoe leather? And they get down to the bottom of the barrel, and they open up the cask, and they see…
• 1:10:57
  Phil: A leather keyring, so that there was…
• 1:11:00
  Tad Eggleston: And…
• 1:11:01
  Phil: Letter, and so the job of the critic is not to say whether something is good or bad, or describe their experience of it, but are trying to identify what is physically present, those things that are within this piece, whether that be drink, or comic or film.
• 1:11:18
  Phil: And that's what I'm trying to do. But just going back to what you said, and then we'll go on your walk so that we can eventually get to…
• 1:11:24
  Tad Eggleston: to it.
• 1:11:26
  Tad Eggleston: I'm looking at page 1 of The Power Fantasy right now, and I would actually say that the first page of the Power Fantasy says.
• 1:11:33
  Tad Eggleston: The… how… fantas…
• 1:11:38
  Phil: So…
• 1:11:39
  Tad Eggleston: one…
• 1:11:43
  Tad Eggleston: I could say I, but I'm gonna say… divider…
• 1:11:50
  Phil: Heroes and villains.
• 1:11:54
  Phil: Sure, but my point remains is that the symbols that you're interpreting, regardless from whatever meaning you ascribe to them, are the same.
• 1:12:03
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but, cause this is… this is where… where…
• 1:12:09
  Tad Eggleston: Differing amounts of, of, of, dealing with gradation matters?
• 1:12:19
  Tad Eggleston: I guarantee my wife would see all of the power fantasy.
• 1:12:25
  Tad Eggleston: Because if I look really closely, if I get up front, I can see that the E, R, the Y…
• 1:12:34
  Tad Eggleston: the HE are there.
• 1:12:39
  Tad Eggleston: But I don't have an eye that is… Trained in color gradation.
• 1:12:47
  Phil: Sure, and so that's… that's where, again, your experience, your… your… the phenomena that are occurring for you are going to be different from the phenomena that occur for me, but
• 1:12:59
  Phil: The symbols on the page are the same.
• 1:13:02
  Phil: how you see them, what meaning you take from them might differ. You know, your eyes are different from mine.
• 1:13:07
  Tad Eggleston: Well, then…
• 1:13:08
  Phil: We are…
• 1:13:09
  Tad Eggleston: How to win…
• 1:13:09
  Phil: discount.
• 1:13:10
  Tad Eggleston: symbols that indicate sound? How do we discount symbols that indicate smell?
• 1:13:16
  Phil: What do you mean by discount?
• 1:13:18
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you're saying they're not on the page, because it's only what we interpret.
• 1:13:22
  Phil: Right, because I'm being hyper-literal and saying that
• 1:13:27
  Phil: that is a representation of smell, that is not smell itself. It's a… Well…
• 1:13:32
  Tad Eggleston: This is…
• 1:13:32
  Tad Eggleston: This is not a T itself. T doesn't exist itself. It's a representation of the sound for T.
• 1:13:42
  Phil: So… T… you're talking about the letter T.
• 1:13:47
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:13:48
  Phil: The letter T does exist in the same way that triangles exist.
• 1:13:50
  Tad Eggleston: How?
• 1:13:51
  Phil: Conceptually.
• 1:13:53
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but sound and smell also exists conceptually.
• 1:13:57
  Phil: But sound and smell are literal, phenomenological experiences that we… that we interpret through our senses.
• 1:14:05
  Phil: The lettering can…
• 1:14:06
  Tad Eggleston: conceptual…
• 1:14:06
  Phil: It's a part of.
• 1:14:07
  Tad Eggleston: Conceptual ideas are, are, are representations, like, Power exists.
• 1:14:15
  Phil: Yes.
• 1:14:16
  Tad Eggleston: Fantasy exists.
• 1:14:17
  Phil: Sure.
• 1:14:18
  Tad Eggleston: The letters we use to make them are… representations…
• 1:14:24
  Tad Eggleston: to evoke… that meaning.
• 1:14:29
  Phil: Right, but…
• 1:14:31
  Tad Eggleston: So why wouldn't smell lines be the same thing?
• 1:14:34
  Phil: Smell lines are not the same thing as smell. The letter T is always the letter T.
• 1:14:42
  Tad Eggleston: Is it?
• 1:14:43
  Phil: Yes, the letter T is… is the letter T.
• 1:14:47
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but that would mean that, like, you couldn't have a T-beam.
• 1:14:55
  Phil: What do you… what do you mean?
• 1:14:57
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, when you're building.
• 1:14:58
  Tad Eggleston: It's not the letter T when you're putting something up that looks like a T, but is meant to hold a structure.
• 1:15:08
  Phil: That's completely different from the letter T itself.
• 1:15:14
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but…
• 1:15:14
  Phil: That's like, that's like saying that because a trans…
• 1:15:17
  Tad Eggleston: You're saying the smell lines… you're saying the smell lines aren't always the smell lines, because you could use similar lines for something else.
• 1:15:25
  Phil: No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the smell lines remind you of a smell or make you think of a smell, but they themselves do not have a smell.
• 1:15:34
  Tad Eggleston: So what does the tea have itself?
• 1:15:38
  Phil: the T, it's a shape.
• 1:15:41
  Tad Eggleston: So does the smell lines.
• 1:15:44
  Phil: Yeah, but… When you smell something, is that smell a shape?
• 1:15:49
  Phil: Like, if you smell chicken, is the smell of chicken a shape?
• 1:15:54
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 1:15:55
  Phil: That's what I'm saying.
• 1:15:56
  Tad Eggleston: When you read T, is it a shape?
• 1:15:58
  Phil: Yes.
• 1:15:59
  Tad Eggleston: Really?
• 1:16:01
  Phil: The letter T is a shape, yes.
• 1:16:03
  Tad Eggleston: I thought it was a sound.
• 1:16:05
  Phil: No, the letter T is a shape. The sound that a T makes is different. That, that's, that's…
• 1:16:12
  Tad Eggleston: What's important when you're reading?
• 1:16:15
  Phil: the shape, because if you can't see it as a T, you can't interpret it as a T.
• 1:16:20
  Phil: The sound that it makes in your head is secondary. But that's where we go if the smell lines interprets it as the smell.
• 1:16:27
  Phil: No, no, no, no, this isn't about interpretation, this is about the smell lines themselves do not have a scent.
• 1:16:32
  Tad Eggleston: There is no disaster.
• 1:16:33
  Phil: Cool set.
• 1:16:34
  Tad Eggleston: It must not have a sound, you're interpreting it.
• 1:16:42
  Tad Eggleston: Every part of reading is interpretation.
• 1:16:52
  Phil: I mean, yes, yes, you are interpreting symbols, but what I'm saying is that any smells, any fan…
• 1:16:59
  Tad Eggleston: How many different fonts of tea are there?
• 1:17:02
  Phil: Yes, but they're all tea. And what I'm saying is that those.
• 1:17:05
  Tad Eggleston: But are they all immediately identifiable as T?
• 1:17:10
  Phil: It's not about the immediacy of identifying, it's about the fact that lines do not inherently contain a scent.
• 1:17:18
  Phil: You're experiencing synesthesia when you look at smell lines and you experience scents.
• 1:17:23
  Tad Eggleston: But the lines themselves do not have a scent. There is no way you could determine that a scent is there.
• 1:17:29
  Phil: Experience is happening entirely within your mind.
• 1:17:33
  Tad Eggleston: If I say… That's what I'.
• 1:17:34
  Phil: to say.
• 1:17:36
  Tad Eggleston: If I say B-L-C-K-R-M-S-H-L-D, YP. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:17:46
  Phil: I would need to see it written out. I'm not at a point of interpreting
• 1:17:53
  Phil: Okay, okay, you're doing that. So…
• 1:17:56
  Tad Eggleston: So, I just, I just got rid of the vowels.
• 1:18:00
  Tad Eggleston: for… A set of words.
• 1:18:05
  Tad Eggleston: And almost everybody on the planet
• 1:18:08
  Tad Eggleston: Would still be able to understand the word being said 99% of the time, except in the rare cases where there are multiple options.
• 1:18:18
  Phil: Well, so.
• 1:18:19
  Tad Eggleston: Or where there's no context.
• 1:18:20
  Phil: I would argue that RMS is not easily inherently understood as arms, because I would think of it as rims or rams. This is… this is a very different thing from saying that smell lines do not themselves have a smell. This is… this is… we're… we are…
• 1:18:37
  Tad Eggleston: And I'm just saying that a T…
• 1:18:40
  Tad Eggleston: It does not by itself have meaning.
• 1:18:45
  Phil: if you identify a shape as the letter T, that's inherently giving it meaning.
• 1:18:51
  Phil: But again, that meaning you are putting onto it.
• 1:18:54
  Tad Eggleston: But that's what you're doing with the smell lines, too. That's different.
• 1:18:58
  Phil: flying.
• 1:18:59
  Tad Eggleston: them instead.
• 1:18:59
  Phil: No lines.
• 1:19:00
  Tad Eggleston: Putting a meeting on them.
• 1:19:02
  Phil: No, no, that…
• 1:19:04
  Phil: It's… it's less… yes, you know that smell lines mean there's a smell there, but the smell that you're experiencing synesthesiaally is not going to inherently be the same that the smell that everyone else experiences synesthesiaally.
• 1:19:16
  Phil: That's what I'm trying to say.
• 1:19:17
  Tad Eggleston: Again, that's true with many words as well.
• 1:19:21
  Phil: But this… we're… this is… you're muddying the issue.
• 1:19:24
  Tad Eggleston: And it's incredibly, it's incredibly, it's incredibly true with sounds.
• 1:19:29
  Tad Eggleston: I think you're… I think you're trying to make something more black and white than it is.
• 1:19:36
  Phil: Dad, what I'm trying to say is that regardless of what you experience in your mind when reading a comic, no one else is going to walk into the room with an open page, look at a drawing, and say, oh, that smells like X. And you're gonna say, yeah, it does smell like X. You know, can you believe it doesn't smell like Y? And they're like, no, it wouldn't smell like Y, it only smells like X.
• 1:19:54
  Phil: That's what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to… I'm trying to differentiate the literal senses, the phenomena that we experience.
• 1:20:01
  Tad Eggleston: I think, I think most comics, like, if they want you to smell dogshit, you would walk in and say, oh, this smells like dog shit, or this makes you smell…
• 1:20:10
  Phil: Again, unless you're someone like me who doesn't have a sense of smell.
• 1:20:14
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:20:15
  Phil: So, so…
• 1:20:17
  Phil: What I'm saying here is that… and again, the smell of dogshit is going to be similar, but slightly different for everyone, and again, it's not going to be detectable in the page. In the physical comic, it's not going to be detectable in any way. It's going to be imagined by people reading it, and that is the difference I'm trying to establish here.
• 1:20:36
  Phil: between what is physically detectable and what is imagined.
• 1:20:44
  Tad Eggleston: It's all imagined.
• 1:20:47
  Phil: Moriah.
• 1:20:48
  Tad Eggleston: Words is imagined.
• 1:20:49
  Phil: The meaning of words is inconsequential to whether smells exist on a comic page or not.
• 1:20:55
  Phil: it, it, this, this is…
• 1:20:58
  Phil: Physical reality exists. We have varying and limited access to it, but it exists and it is there.
• 1:21:04
  Tad Eggleston: Sure.
• 1:21:05
  Phil: So it is not all imagined.
• 1:21:08
  Tad Eggleston: Like, all the meaning is imagined, yeah.
• 1:21:11
  Phil: Sure, but… but…
• 1:21:13
  Tad Eggleston: I mean…
• 1:21:14
  Phil: about that.
• 1:21:14
  Tad Eggleston: That argument, the only parts that exist in a comic…
• 1:21:19
  Tad Eggleston: Are the paper and the ink, and the staples.
• 1:21:21
  Phil: Yes.
• 1:21:23
  Phil: Yes. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:21:26
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:21:28
  Tad Eggleston: But that's not the words in the pictures. That's the paper, the ink, and the staples.
• 1:21:31
  Phil: Sure. But the shapes of the words and… or the… which words and letters are used, and the shape of the pictures are going to be the same for everyone.
• 1:21:41
  Phil: Like, again, you're not… Right.
• 1:21:43
  Tad Eggleston: And, and…
• 1:21:44
  Phil: Describe it differently, but again, and again.
• 1:21:48
  Phil: you might… okay, they're trying… that's a picture of dogshit, and they're trying to evoke the scent of dogshit. The scent of dog shit is in your mind, it is not in the comic.
• 1:22:00
  Tad Eggleston: But all the meetings in your mind.
• 1:22:04
  Tad Eggleston: More of it is easy to share than others.
• 1:22:06
  Phil: Sure. I… again, I'm not… I'm not saying that the meaning isn't there. I'm simply saying that
• 1:22:12
  Phil: The… the phenomena… the phenomena, the physical, embodied experience of smelling dog shit.
• 1:22:20
  Phil: happens in your mind when you read a comic. It is not inherently on the page of a comic.
• 1:22:27
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, and I'm just saying that, to me, that's an argument that nothing is inherently on the page of a comic.
• 1:22:34
  Phil: Except for, again, the shapes, the ink and the paper.
• 1:22:39
  Phil: the symbols. Those are… those are on the comic, because it's a visual medium.
• 1:22:43
  Tad Eggleston: But, but…
• 1:22:44
  Phil: What the symbols mean differentiates, but the symbols are there.
• 1:22:48
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:22:51
  Tad Eggleston: But that includes the symbol that's supposed to evoke the Smell, or sound.
• 1:22:57
  Phil: Yes, but that is different from literal smell and sound.
• 1:23:02
  Tad Eggleston: Sure.
• 1:23:02
  Phil: Yes. That's what I'm… that's what I'm trying.
• 1:23:04
  Tad Eggleston: So's the dialogue. Yes, I would not…
• 1:23:08
  Phil: I would not say…
• 1:23:09
  Tad Eggleston: speaking, and… Yes.
• 1:23:11
  Phil: I would not say that there is literal sound in a comic. The sound is happening in my head.
• 1:23:15
  Tad Eggleston: And all the motion is not literal.
• 1:23:19
  Phil: Yes.
• 1:23:21
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, again, no part of the comic is literal, then.
• 1:23:24
  Phil: Yes.
• 1:23:25
  Phil: That's okay.
• 1:23:27
  Tad Eggleston: No, I'm okay with that too, but then it's no better…
• 1:23:31
  Phil: Literally.
• 1:23:32
  Tad Eggleston: Not inherently better at any part of the sensory storytelling spectrum.
• 1:23:41
  Tad Eggleston: Because it's all about interpretation.
• 1:23:45
  Phil: But that, again, to split the difference between a comic and a film, the film inherently contains sound. The comic does not inherently contain sound.
• 1:23:54
  Phil: And when I say sound, I mean sound waves.
• 1:23:57
  Phil: The only sound waves you're gonna get out of a comic are going to be the rustling of the turn of a page.
• 1:24:12
  Tad Eggleston: I mean…
• 1:24:16
  Tad Eggleston: I guess, sure, but, like… it still has to be used to effect for the storytelling, and I'm not…
• 1:24:25
  Phil: Of course.
• 1:24:25
  Tad Eggleston: that is…
• 1:24:26
  Phil: course.
• 1:24:28
  Tad Eggleston: is, like… I mean, it might be easier to use sound for effect for the storytelling in film than in comics, but, like…
• 1:24:35
  Tad Eggleston: When it comes to story.
• 1:24:36
  Phil: So again, comics cannot use sound. They do not produce sound waves.
• 1:24:45
  Phil: you have to imagine the sounds. That's the difference here.
• 1:25:00
  Tad Eggleston: We know… that…
• 1:25:04
  Tad Eggleston: Eardrums are affected by sound waves in the same way. We do not know that brains interpret those
• 1:25:16
  Tad Eggleston: effects. I don't care what the brain is doing, I care whether sound waves are coming off the pages of a comic or not.
• 1:25:23
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:25:24
  Phil: I'm saying that you will never get sound waves coming off of the patient.
• 1:25:28
  Tad Eggleston: What does science have to do with… with storytelling?
• 1:25:31
  Phil: everything. Because what you experience through your senses, the phenomena that… that you…
• 1:25:38
  Phil: Again, interpret and… and, you know, experience, not to reuse those same words over and over.
• 1:25:47
  Phil: those… I lost my train of thought, but those are important. And the difference between.
• 1:25:54
  Tad Eggleston: They're.
• 1:25:55
  Phil: Nobody's expense.
• 1:25:55
  Tad Eggleston: Of course they're important, but…
• 1:25:57
  Phil: And what is imagined is important. And this part of this is an interesting segue to the walk, and the theme for the walk.
• 1:26:08
  Phil: which is, previously on October 8th. So…
• 1:26:13
  Phil: I… this year, is the second time since I've been a comic reader that a comic has come out on my birthday. The previous time was in 2014, so I kind of noticed…
• 1:26:24
  Tad Eggleston: It was your birthday, Phil. Oh, it wasn't today. It was a few months ago, but thank you. It's October 8th.
• 1:26:28
  Phil: No, that's not today. No, no, it was July 9th was my birthday.
• 1:26:31
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay.
• 1:26:32
  Phil: It was a while ago, but October 8th here. So, I looked up, and I'm like, okay, well, this October 8th, you know, Power Fantasy 12 came out. The last time comics came out on an October 8th. This is what I picked up. It was Thor number 1, Witches number 1, Birthright No. 1, Miracle Man number 12. Where this is tying back to
• 1:26:49
  Phil: My obsession with differentiating between Physical embodied experiences and imagined,
• 1:26:56
  Phil: fictional experiences, or, you know, the contents of the mind. So, 2014 was a difficult year for me.
• 1:27:04
  Phil: I had a, antibiotic overdose-induced psychotic break.
• 1:27:11
  Phil: And the lines between what was happening in my head and what was happening in the real world were blurred. And I could not distinguish between the two.
• 1:27:20
  Phil: Since that event, I take painstaking efforts to differentiate between what is happening in my head and what is happening in the real world. What are things that I am experiencing and thinking that no one else can see or hear, versus what everyone else is seeing and hearing, and what's going on with them? And that's why I… I…
• 1:27:40
  Phil: Go down a deep rabbit hole of argumentation and semantics, saying that…
• 1:27:46
  Phil: Comic pages do not produce sound waves.
• 1:27:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Okay.
• 1:27:55
  Phil: Sorry.
• 1:27:56
  Tad Eggleston: Like, I… Comic pages don't produce sound waves, and, like… Neither do pros pages,
• 1:28:12
  Tad Eggleston: Movies don't produce letters.
• 1:28:14
  Phil: Sure, unless they put them on the screen.
• 1:28:16
  Tad Eggleston: Right, oral storytelling certainly doesn't produce letters. Sure.
• 1:28:24
  Tad Eggleston: Smells are inherently part of lots of good storytelling, but, like, without massive amounts of work, you can't actually…
• 1:28:34
  Tad Eggleston: Put the aroma into the air.
• 1:28:39
  Phil: Right. Even if you put the aroma into the air, clearing it so that you can have a new aroma the next time you need one is…
• 1:28:47
  Tad Eggleston: The art form… Problematic.
• 1:28:49
  Phil: The art form most adept at dealing with smells…
• 1:28:52
  Tad Eggleston: Jen…
• 1:28:56
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but… but… but food is not actually an art… a storytelling medium.
• 1:29:02
  Phil: It can be.
• 1:29:03
  Phil: You can tell a story.
• 1:29:04
  Tad Eggleston: It can be used as part of a storytelling.
• 1:29:08
  Tad Eggleston: But it's generally not the medium.
• 1:29:11
  Tad Eggleston: It's one of the tools.
• 1:29:13
  Phil: Well, I mean, I'm thinking of, like, a dinner. Sure, if a dinner is a medium, I would actually argue that food is a pretty important piece of that medium, and almost interchangeable with that medium itself. You know, a dinner without food isn't really a dinner.
• 1:29:29
  Tad Eggleston: But can you tell the… the story?
• 1:29:32
  Tad Eggleston: of… The dinner…
• 1:29:40
  Phil: Yes, I don't know where you're gonna.
• 1:29:41
  Tad Eggleston: Only the food.
• 1:29:42
  Phil: Yeah, it would be abstract and difficult to interpret, but it could be done.
• 1:29:49
  Phil: Fine Dining has been trying to do this for over 100 years now.
• 1:29:53
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but they also use presentation, they also use… Sure.
• 1:29:58
  Phil: But… but again, it's… it's… it's all in the food.
• 1:30:00
  Phil: You know, the…
• 1:30:01
  Tad Eggleston: But the, the, the, again, the food is…
• 1:30:05
  Tad Eggleston: One of the tools, the foods like the ink.
• 1:30:10
  Tad Eggleston: The food's not the medium, the food's the tool.
• 1:30:14
  Phil: So you'd say… you would argue that the construct, the social construct of a dinner or a meal is the medium?
• 1:30:22
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:30:23
  Phil: Interesting.
• 1:30:26
  Tad Eggleston: I think, inherently, mediums have to be social constructs.
• 1:30:31
  Phil: I could see that. Yeah.
• 1:30:33
  Phil: Yeah, I can see that. That feels… that feels important. That feels like it's worth writing down.
• 1:30:39
  Phil: Mediums have to be social constructs. That… no, I like that. That's… that's a… that's… that's… that's a really good line.
• 1:30:50
  Tad Eggleston: But that's also why, to me.
• 1:30:54
  Tad Eggleston: Like, the tool used to evoke
• 1:30:58
  Tad Eggleston: Doesn't matter, it's the evocation that matters.
• 1:31:02
  Tad Eggleston: When you're talking about a storytelling medium.
• 1:31:05
  Phil: The evocation inherently matters to the individual, but… It's also…
• 1:31:12
  Tad Eggleston: All of the individuals.
• 1:31:13
  Phil: Yes, yes, but that's… but what I'm saying is that each evocation is different, so, like, to put it in… to put it in programming terms here for any other programmers out there listening to this.
• 1:31:24
  Phil: You know, the artwork becomes, like, the class, and then the evocation or the experience of reading that artwork is the object created by the class.
• 1:31:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. But that's the story.
• 1:31:37
  Phil: Yeah, and it's, it's, you know, it exists through an interact… like, a story that never gets read doesn't.
• 1:31:43
  Tad Eggleston: Programming isn't a medium. Video games are.
• 1:31:46
  Phil: Right.
• 1:31:50
  Phil: I mean…
• 1:31:51
  Phil: Yeah, programming is… it's def… it's… it's… it's actually… I… I'd put it bigger than a medium. It's.
• 1:31:58
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, it's a tool and a language.
• 1:32:00
  Phil: It's multiple languages. Right.
• 1:32:03
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 1:32:04
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, most of the other languages are… are… are…
• 1:32:12
  Tad Eggleston: We don't have any programming that isn't eventually binary yet, I don't think.
• 1:32:17
  Phil: No, I mean, they're working on quantum computing, but…
• 1:32:21
  Tad Eggleston: But even quantum computing has way more to do with doing things faster than changing the basic language.
• 1:32:28
  Phil: I think it does actually… well, okay, so first of all, let's differentiate between language, because binary isn't a language, it's a numeric system, you know?
• 1:32:36
  Tad Eggleston: Generic systems are languages.
• 1:32:41
  Phil: The reason why I'm trying to differentiate between that is because programming also has languages like Python, C Sharp…
• 1:32:47
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely.
• 1:32:47
  Phil: Absolutely. So I just didn't want to muddy.
• 1:32:50
  Tad Eggleston: But I would almost think of them more as dialects than languages.
• 1:32:55
  Phil: Sure, sure. You know.
• 1:32:58
  Phil: kind of, yes and no, because they…
• 1:33:03
  Tad Eggleston: No, I get it.
• 1:33:04
  Phil: differently and behave in different ways, but, like…
• 1:33:06
  Tad Eggleston: That's why, you know… Yeah, but they're still the building blocks more than…
• 1:33:12
  Phil: Well, I would say… so I would say math… math is a language?
• 1:33:16
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 1:33:17
  Phil: You know,
• 1:33:19
  Phil: binary is a subset of math, so yeah, I guess dialect, subset of language, that kind of…
• 1:33:26
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:33:26
  Phil: I was twisting a bit, but yeah. I mean, this definitely gets to a place where we don't necessarily have the right words to describe what we're trying to say.
• 1:33:34
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely. And that's… that's actually, like… That's a huge part of things I don't think about. That's something that I don't think gets…
• 1:33:50
  Tad Eggleston: I don't think it's enough attention in the world, period.
• 1:33:54
  Tad Eggleston: How often?
• 1:33:56
  Phil: How often do people respond to.
• 1:33:59
  Tad Eggleston: Their interpretation of your words, without trying to figure out whether that's your meaning.
• 1:34:05
  Phil: it happens more and more often every day, unfortunately. It happens every day on the internet.
• 1:34:09
  Tad Eggleston: if it's more and more often. I think it's always been a problem.
• 1:34:14
  Phil: That's fair, that's a good point.
• 1:34:16
  Tad Eggleston: It's one of the reasons that different languages have
• 1:34:20
  Tad Eggleston: different words that are all but untranslatable to other languages, because they became issues in that language that they wanted a solution for, so they created the word, and other languages just haven't had a need to yet, or a desire to, or the right thought processes to go, oh, how do we express this?
• 1:34:39
  Phil: Similarly, the more words you have for a single object within a language, you know, the more importance it is at talking about all the various terms for snow the Eskimos have versus the ones that are in English.
• 1:34:53
  Phil: You know, all of our nicknames for cash, for money, and for sex, you know, is that's what Americans seem to value the most.
• 1:35:00
  Tad Eggleston: But a relatively small number of words for love.
• 1:35:05
  Phil: Yeah, yeah, the Greeks had more words for love than us. That's something I think about a lot, of the different…
• 1:35:11
  Tad Eggleston: Spanish have more words for love than us? Yeah. The Japanese have more words for love than us?
• 1:35:17
  Phil: Didn't know that, that's good to know.
• 1:35:18
  Tad Eggleston: A lot of people have more words for love than us.
• 1:35:22
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:35:23
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:35:26
  Tad Eggleston: You know, we don't differentiate between different types of love.
• 1:35:30
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, what… we don't even have different words for familial versus… Romantic love.
• 1:35:37
  Phil: That's true.
• 1:35:38
  Tad Eggleston: Never mind friendship love.
• 1:35:40
  Phil: Yeah, I was just… for some reason, I was thinking, we love pizza the same way we love our parents.
• 1:35:47
  Tad Eggleston: Or at least we use the same word.
• 1:35:49
  Phil: Yes.
• 1:35:51
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:35:55
  Tad Eggleston: So, I mean, really, this entire, like, hour-long discussion has been an etymological discussion more than anything.
• 1:36:04
  Phil: It's been… it's been a lot of discussions simultaneously layered on top of each other, that's for sure.
• 1:36:11
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I thought it was mostly one.
• 1:36:13
  Phil: Okay.
• 1:36:15
  Phil: Oh, no, I just think from… from… yeah.
• 1:36:20
  Phil: That's okay.
• 1:36:21
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I, I, I, I, I…
• 1:36:25
  Tad Eggleston: I, I maintain that the, the…
• 1:36:32
  Tad Eggleston: Anything evoked from a storytelling medium is… Part of the medium.
• 1:36:39
  Tad Eggleston: There's not a difference between.
• 1:36:43
  Phil: So…
• 1:36:43
  Tad Eggleston: And non-literal in a storytelling medium.
• 1:36:48
  Phil: So that validates every possible interpretation that someone could get out of something.
• 1:36:53
  Tad Eggleston: Sure.
• 1:36:55
  Phil: So… I, I, I, I can't… I… personally, I can't allow that. Boy.
• 1:37:01
  Phil: Because people can be wrong about things. People can be wrong about the things they imagined. People can be wrong about what they think they're seeing. They can be wrong about how they think they're understanding things.
• 1:37:11
  Tad Eggleston: When it comes to the interpretation of a storytelling.
• 1:37:15
  Phil: Am I going to say that, no, this story does not invoke rage in someone? No, I'm going to say that.
• 1:37:20
  Tad Eggleston: Wrong, or do you have a disagreement?
• 1:37:23
  Phil: So… and that… so an instance where someone was wrong, and this is an anecdote from a college professor I had, where they read an essay from a student about, I forget what the book was, but it was about, you know, young Jewish people growing up, and their grandpa was a survivor of the Holocaust.
• 1:37:41
  Phil: And the person who wrote the essay said that, oh, because the grandpa is weird and slightly off, a little bit delusional, that means that the Holocaust didn't happen and, was fake.
• 1:37:52
  Phil: That person's wrong.
• 1:37:54
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but that…
• 1:37:55
  Phil: They are wrong about the Holocaust not having happened, and just because they interpret it from a story doesn't mean that's a valid interpretation.
• 1:38:02
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but, but you're also, putting a world… Interpretation onto a story.
• 1:38:11
  Phil: Yes.
• 1:38:13
  Tad Eggleston: Like, would it be wrong if they decided that in the context of that story.
• 1:38:20
  Tad Eggleston: the Holocaust, which happened in the real world, did not happen.
• 1:38:26
  Phil: I don't believe that was the intent of the book, so if that's what they thought the book was saying, again, they'd be wrong.
• 1:38:34
  Phil: That wrong interpretation would still be important to that person, and they would still act on it, thinking it's right, but it is still inherently wrong.
• 1:38:43
  Tad Eggleston: Again, like…
• 1:38:51
  Tad Eggleston: It's inherently an opinion.
• 1:38:55
  Phil: It's not an opinion that the Holocaust did happen.
• 1:38:58
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, no, but I didn't, I didn't say… No, what I said is if there… if there is…
• 1:39:03
  Phil: But I'm…
• 1:39:04
  Tad Eggleston: of the work.
• 1:39:05
  Phil: I'm trying to drill into that. I'm trying to drill into that. If they're inter… so, starting from…
• 1:39:10
  Phil: their interpretation that the Holocaust didn't happen was wrong. If they're interpreting that this book is somehow…
• 1:39:17
  Phil: claiming that it's set in a reality where the Holocaust didn't happen.
• 1:39:22
  Phil: That would be one thing, but if the author's not trying to establish that fictional framework, but someone is viewing it through that lens, that's still wrong. They're looking at it through the wrong lens.
• 1:39:35
  Phil: Interpretation.
• 1:39:36
  Tad Eggleston: Either the wrong lens, or a different lens?
• 1:39:39
  Phil: The wrong lens, because the Holocaust happened.
• 1:39:42
  Tad Eggleston: But… That's history, not storytelling.
• 1:39:47
  Phil: History is a form of storytelling.
• 1:39:49
  Phil: History, storytelling about…
• 1:39:51
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely.
• 1:39:52
  Phil: pass.
• 1:39:52
  Tad Eggleston: But… but… but was it a non-fiction story?
• 1:39:56
  Phil: No.
• 1:40:00
  Tad Eggleston: So…
• 1:40:02
  Phil: But it wasn't set in a world where the Holocaust didn't happen, but there's a grandpa that's imagining that he was a Holocaust survivor. That's not the context of the story. That's not the argument that the student was trying to make.
• 1:40:13
  Tad Eggleston: Well, again, that's a different thing. They can be making a wrong argument, Based on a story.
• 1:40:22
  Tad Eggleston: about the world.
• 1:40:27
  Tad Eggleston: Like, if you use a piece of fiction, To argue the… In… invalidity…
• 1:40:38
  Phil: Of nonfiction.
• 1:40:41
  Tad Eggleston: That is a wrong… Argument.
• 1:40:48
  Tad Eggleston: But… If you are speaking of a work of fiction, using… Only that work of fiction
• 1:41:03
  Tad Eggleston: You can't be inherently wrong. You can be an idiot, and I don't care about your opinion.
• 1:41:10
  Phil: So this is where they weren't inherent… they weren't just using that piece of fiction. So, like, this is… this is where the wrongness was coming from them and their understanding, and that's why I want to separate that wrongness from the actual medium and story itself.
• 1:41:24
  Phil: The reactions the stories evoked are not a part of the stories themselves.
• 1:41:29
  Phil: They are the aftermath, they are what comes next, but they are not inherently contained within the story.
• 1:41:35
  Tad Eggleston: But the interpretation is…
• 1:41:37
  Phil: The interpretation is not contained within the story, the interpretation is contained within the individual.
• 1:41:46
  Tad Eggleston: the… the… The reaction and the interpretation are different things.
• 1:41:51
  Phil: I would say that the interpretation is a part of the reaction.
• 1:41:55
  Tad Eggleston: The interpretation is the… the… Antecedent to the reaction.
• 1:42:06
  Phil: But again, the reaction also isn't inherently contained within the story.
• 1:42:10
  Tad Eggleston: The reaction?
• 1:42:11
  Phil: story.
• 1:42:11
  Tad Eggleston: absolutely not contained in the story. The reaction is how you take the story to…
• 1:42:16
  Phil: So then, if the reaction…
• 1:42:18
  Tad Eggleston: Your life and your world.
• 1:42:20
  Phil: If the reaction isn't contained within the story, then how is the interpretation contained within the story?
• 1:42:25
  Tad Eggleston: Because again, the interpretation is what you think the story is…
• 1:42:29
  Tad Eggleston: Saying, and the reaction is how you want to apply it to your world.
• 1:42:34
  Phil: Is what you think about the story inherently contained within the story, or is it contained within you?
• 1:42:42
  Tad Eggleston: I would say it's inherently… Contained in both, just like… What the author intends… is…
• 1:42:56
  Tad Eggleston: Contained one part in… Themselves, and one part in the story.
• 1:43:06
  Tad Eggleston: It's a Venn diagram.
• 1:43:11
  Tad Eggleston: The story doesn't exist in and of itself.
• 1:43:16
  Tad Eggleston: The story is where the author's intentions and the reader's interpretations meet.
• 1:43:32
  Phil: I can see that.
• 1:43:36
  Phil: But… I don't trust it.
• 1:43:42
  Phil: So what it comes down to.
• 1:43:44
  Phil: Hmm.
• 1:43:45
  Tad Eggleston: I, I, I mean, like… To do otherwise… puts…
• 1:43:53
  Tad Eggleston: Too much responsibility on the writer, and removes too much from the reader.
• 1:44:01
  Phil: I mean… I guess… I guess… what I see… is…
• 1:44:10
  Phil: three bodies, you know? Creator, story, and listener.
• 1:44:18
  Phil: And so, I guess I do… I do want to keep…
• 1:44:23
  Phil: the writer and intent separate from the story, but still influenced by, in the same way that I want to keep the reader's interpretation and response separate from, but influenced by the story.
• 1:44:37
  Phil: You know, I wanna keep these things…
• 1:44:40
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's…
• 1:44:41
  Phil: Discern.
• 1:44:41
  Tad Eggleston: Definitely, it's definitely a three-ring Venn diagram. Okay. Where there are parts that are strictly the writer's intent that aren't necessarily in the story at all, and parts that are strictly the reader's interpretation that aren't in the story at all, and there are things that are the writer's intent and in the story.
• 1:45:00
  Tad Eggleston: There are things that are the reader's interpretation and in the story, even though they weren't the writer's intent, and there are things that are both the writer's intent and the reader's interpretation and in the story.
• 1:45:16
  Tad Eggleston: Like, your words would fall into that third category.
• 1:45:22
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, really, it's a three-dimensional thing, because, like, my smells would be where… where the writer's intent and…
• 1:45:33
  Tad Eggleston: The reader's interpretation overlap, and maybe you could argue aren't in the story.
• 1:45:42
  Tad Eggleston: But I think, to a certain extent, if the writer's intent and the reader's interpretation overlap, it almost has to be in the story, whether you can point to it literally or not.
• 1:45:54
  Phil: Yeah, I guess it's funny, because now the way you're talking about the story makes me want to…
• 1:46:00
  Phil: even turn this 3-ring circus into a 4-ring circus, you know, and add some kind of, you know, the hard, physical, this is what…
• 1:46:10
  Phil: This is what the artwork is, you know, the physical object of, hey, this is the comic book.
• 1:46:16
  Phil: These… this is the paper ink
• 1:46:18
  Phil: Whatnot. And then the story kind of lives off the page once read.
• 1:46:23
  Phil: Sort of thing. And this…
• 1:46:25
  Tad Eggleston: And that all matters, you know.
• 1:46:27
  Tad Eggleston: still matters. Yeah. What weight of paper matters, what font you use matters.
• 1:46:34
  Phil: Right, right.
• 1:46:35
  Tad Eggleston: So, yeah, but that's my point. So, like, to…
• 1:46:40
  Tad Eggleston: To try to argue that any part is not part of the story is… Way more fraught.
• 1:46:47
  Tad Eggleston: than…
• 1:46:49
  Phil: Well, I think… I think where our semantic breakdown from earlier occurred was because we were conflating story and artistic object.
• 1:46:58
  Phil: you know, if I'm now differentiating between the story of the power fantasy and the physical issues of the power fantasy, that's… I was saying that the physical issues do not contain the scents of a smell.
• 1:47:11
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:47:11
  Phil: Story can contain.
• 1:47:13
  Tad Eggleston: That's right. That's right. And I was only talking about the story.
• 1:47:16
  Phil: Okay, and that's where… okay, so that's where… that's where the breakdown happened.
• 1:47:20
  Tad Eggleston: I was talking about the story… I was talking about the medium. You're talking about the object.
• 1:47:24
  Phil: Yes, and I didn't.
• 1:47:25
  Tad Eggleston: I care about the object. When I'm talking about storytelling, I don't care about the object.
• 1:47:28
  Phil: I was gonna almost say I don't care about the medium, but that's not true in any way. That's… that's… I could never… I could never in any earnest way say that.
• 1:47:34
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, this is one of the reasons why it doesn't always matter to me that much if I'm…
• 1:47:41
  Tad Eggleston: if I'm watching a movie on a big screen, or on my phone, if I'm reading a comic physically, or… I mean, don't get me wrong, it is a different experience.
• 1:47:52
  Tad Eggleston: Sometimes affects the story.
• 1:47:55
  Tad Eggleston: But I think most of the time.
• 1:48:01
  Tad Eggleston: It has a redundant effect on the story.
• 1:48:04
  Phil: What do you mean by redundant effect, real quick?
• 1:48:06
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, whatever effect the, the, the object
• 1:48:11
  Tad Eggleston: Has is reinforcing something that's in the story On its own.
• 1:48:17
  Phil: Okay, okay. I get what you're saying. So, so then because of that, I would actually, you know, last week was a great instance where the medium…
• 1:48:26
  Phil: the, you know, the physical medium of, reading the comic, or I guess not really… we need another word other than medium, because comics are the medium. So then…
• 1:48:36
  Phil: I guess maybe the device or object, but I… reading Know Your Station on the phone, I lost so much detail, so much of the story.
• 1:48:43
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:48:44
  Phil: that I… I would argue that I didn't… I didn't actually read the book. I didn't read it in a.
• 1:48:48
  Tad Eggleston: meaningful way. And I don't disagree that it's not impossible.
• 1:48:55
  Tad Eggleston: for… A delivery mechanism to be so out of… But… but that's not…
• 1:49:05
  Phil: Yeah, that's a very different… that's a very different language.
• 1:49:08
  Tad Eggleston: That's… you wound up reading, in a physical manner, that…
• 1:49:14
  Phil: detracted from the story because you weren't able to see it all at once. Yes, yes. That's like being in the first row of the movie theater. Yes, exactly. That's totally it.
• 1:49:24
  Tad Eggleston: Where you can't see both sides at once.
• 1:49:26
  Phil: Right, right. It was… it was kind of like that, where my neck was craned all the way back to look up, and…
• 1:49:32
  Tad Eggleston: Right. Yeah.
• 1:49:33
  Phil: It's funny, I was kind of the inverse of a movie too close bad, comic too far away bad.
• 1:49:40
  Tad Eggleston: Right. But God, I'm gonna have to add a new chapter, because we… we… we went on, like.
• 1:49:49
  Phil: More than…
• 1:49:50
  Tad Eggleston: And an hour-long digression. Can you finally finish your walk?
• 1:49:53
  Phil: Fist of Tangents.
• 1:49:55
  Tad Eggleston: One of these days, we have to get back to, like, roughly an hour, hour 15 for weekly episodes.
• 1:50:02
  Phil: We'd been on a pretty good streak, we'd been doing pretty well.
• 1:50:05
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, no!
• 1:50:07
  Phil: No? Tyler's was a little bit longer? No? -Oh.
• 1:50:10
  Tad Eggleston: But, I mean… Like, go on your walk while I look up the data.
• 1:50:16
  Phil: I went on my walk, I'm back from my walk, but .
• 1:50:18
  Tad Eggleston: No, you haven't actually talked about the books! The actual books? Okay, I'll talk about the actual books.
• 1:50:23
  Phil: So…
• 1:50:24
  Tad Eggleston: So, the books are part.
• 1:50:25
  Phil: So yeah, so that… so this… so… so previously, on October 8th, October 8th, 2014, the last time comics came out on October 8th, this was the start of… or not the start, this was the… the start of Act 2 of Jason Aaron's run on Thor, which, was…
• 1:50:43
  Phil: you know, very near and dear to me. I loved the hell out of that run. Oddly enough, when it wrapped up, I definitely put it down, and…
• 1:50:53
  Phil: And that… that was probably one of the…
• 1:50:56
  Phil: one of the last big superhero runs that I read, so it feels… it feels interesting that, that it, you know.
• 1:51:03
  Phil: its first big turning point, happened 11 years ago today. Witches, number one, is a great spooky book, from Snyder and Jock. I wish there was a second… a full second volume of Witches, as opposed to just a few more stories in a one-shot.
• 1:51:20
  Phil: Birthright No. 1, that was an interesting book. I haven't finished it. It was…
• 1:51:27
  Phil: you know, it's kind of there by association. I love the artwork.
• 1:51:31
  Phil: I actually really enjoy the premise, but I don't know if the story lives up to the premise of that one.
• 1:51:37
  Phil: And then, of course, the Marvel recolor reprints of Miracle Man, where, Miracle Man was the number 12 by the original writer. I was picking these up, I was reading these. That's another book that, you know, I read once, was kind of a, okay, that happened, that's a piece of history that's, you know, interestingly enough.
• 1:51:57
  Phil: another, like, misshapen piece of history that I interpreted, because I haven't read it with the original coloring, that I've seen a lot of people argue is, you know, more interesting and evocative than the recolor that happened.
• 1:52:11
  Phil: But yeah, yeah, I also… I love… I love that it was credited as the original writer, simply because, you know, it was one of those things that when I heard it announced, I instantly understood it as, oh, yeah, Alan doesn't want his current audience getting confused by this coming out.
• 1:52:29
  Phil: He doesn't want the people who read League of Extreme.
• 1:52:32
  Tad Eggleston: One way to put it…
• 1:52:33
  Phil: Yeah. As well as, he today… he, in that day, was no longer the person who had written
• 1:52:39
  Phil: Miracleman. That was him from decades ago.
• 1:52:43
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah… I think that had less to do with it.
• 1:52:49
  Phil: No, I think the biggest thing was, no, I don't want to look like I'm accepting money from Marvel right now, you know?
• 1:52:56
  Phil: No, I don't even think that was it. And so what do you think it is?
• 1:53:01
  Tad Eggleston: I, I think it's he, he's… he's a curmudgeon that, like,
• 1:53:06
  Tad Eggleston: and I love Alan Moore, don't get me wrong, but I think that there's a huge portion of it that is,
• 1:53:17
  Tad Eggleston: I do independent work.
• 1:53:21
  Tad Eggleston: And… and this should be mine, so if somebody else is doing something with it, I don't want anything to be done with it. I think it spun out from Watchmen, but it's really… it's really become literally anybody who does anything with anything he's ever worked on, reprints…
• 1:53:40
  Tad Eggleston: Makes movies, whatever.
• 1:53:42
  Tad Eggleston: He… he just doesn't want his name on.
• 1:53:46
  Phil: Ugh, I mean… I think that's a… that's a…
• 1:53:52
  Phil: A strangely cynical take from you.
• 1:53:55
  Phil: On it, mostly because…
• 1:53:57
  Tad Eggleston: See, I… First of all…
• 1:53:58
  Phil: First of all, I…
• 1:53:59
  Phil: I would use curmudgeon as a compliment, and I know you do too. I do too. Just to clear it up, just to clear it up. Second of all…
• 1:54:05
  Tad Eggleston: And… and I want to make it clear that I… I think… I think of this as a… as a…
• 1:54:12
  Tad Eggleston: just a consistency thing. Rather than having to think about it on a time-by-time basis, it's like, no, I'm done with it. If I don't have the rights, fine, do whatever the fuck you want, just don't use my name.
• 1:54:22
  Phil: Well, yeah, and I think… I think that… that goes back to what I was saying with his current audience, because his name is a marketing tool. He doesn't want to be used as a marketing tool for a company that swindled him, in the case of DC, and I don't…
• 1:54:37
  Phil: remembers explicitly what happened with Marvel, other than he worked at Marvel UK for a lot of his early work, but I know he also doesn't like them. So I.
• 1:54:46
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but I also think that, like, he's not dumb.
• 1:54:52
  Tad Eggleston: He knows that nobody, nobody… didn't know that that was Alan Moore.
• 1:54:59
  Phil: Right, right. So he… but what I'm also saying is that, I mean, here's the thing.
• 1:55:06
  Phil: I'm pretty sure, there was, like, a three-part interview with him about this at the time that I could go look up if I wanted to, but it was one of those things that I was like, oh.
• 1:55:17
  Phil: I don't feel the need to read this long interview explaining why he didn't want to be credited as a writer, because I feel like I understand it implicitly here. But, you know, I'd be happy to dig those up to get down to the nitty-gritty of it. I really do think it comes back to the principles of…
• 1:55:33
  Phil: you know, hey, this isn't work that I'm doing now, you know, him getting money for old rope is one thing, but when they're getting more out of using his name than he is, that's something that I would probably take umbrage with, too. The idea of…
• 1:55:51
  Tad Eggleston: But here's the thing, like, at least with Watchmen, he's not getting money because he's not taking money, but that's because he's giving it to David Gibbons. Right. They're still making money.
• 1:56:02
  Phil: Right, right.
• 1:56:04
  Tad Eggleston: They're still making a WOT of money.
• 1:56:06
  Phil: Right, and we… and I'm sure he also understands that he can't stop them from trying to make money off of things, you know? Well, no, no, I meant… I meant…
• 1:56:15
  Tad Eggleston: If he wanted to, he would still be making a lot of money.
• 1:56:19
  Phil: Yes. He doesn't want to because he doesn't want to be owned. He doesn't want to be beholden to the people who screwed him over, you know? It's a principled stance, and I respect the hell out of it, you know?
• 1:56:33
  Tad Eggleston: I think with… with Watchmen, it's a principled stance. I think with the rest of it, it's more about consistency. And… and that…
• 1:56:41
  Phil: Principles demanding consistency.
• 1:56:42
  Tad Eggleston: And that's principled in its own way, but, like, I don't think it's…
• 1:56:50
  Tad Eggleston: You know, and for that matter, his name isn't off of Watchmen.
• 1:56:54
  Phil: No.
• 1:56:55
  Phil: But… that's because it hasn't been retouched and recolored and republished. It's just been in print continuously since 1987.
• 1:57:08
  Tad Eggleston: But, but going back to our, our lengths.
• 1:57:12
  Phil: Oh, yeah.
• 1:57:12
  Tad Eggleston: like, when I was at CXC, we came in at just under an hour. Okay. issue… er, the, the, the next episode…
• 1:57:25
  Tad Eggleston: Traveling to Mars was just under 2 hours.
• 1:57:34
  Phil: Okay, yeah, that was a lot.
• 1:57:35
  Tad Eggleston: And… and, know Your Station was an hour and a half.
• 1:57:42
  Phil: Okay.
• 1:57:43
  Tad Eggleston: We're probably at 2 hours already.
• 1:57:47
  Phil: Hooey.
• 1:57:47
  Tad Eggleston: a rare audible?
• 1:57:49
  Phil: This is the giant-sized spectacular.
• 1:57:51
  Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna call a rare audible.
• 1:57:53
  Phil: Oh.
• 1:57:54
  Tad Eggleston: say that…
• 1:57:57
  Tad Eggleston: We did our great responsibility out of order. We did. And we're changing the great responsibility to, what is a medium?
• 1:58:06
  Phil: Interesting, okay.
• 1:58:09
  Tad Eggleston: So you're gonna have to take all of your power fantasy reading and…
• 1:58:14
  Phil: The music's fine.
• 1:58:15
  Tad Eggleston: to Kieran.
• 1:58:16
  Phil: Well, yes, actually. Yay! Yay!
• 1:58:21
  Phil: You're… believe it or not, believe it or not, as weird as this conversation was, I am hoping the conversation with Kieran gets even weirder.
• 1:58:31
  Tad Eggleston: No, I get it, I get it. So, so we, we are, we are going to,
• 1:58:37
  Tad Eggleston: quickly say that I read one chapter of One Piece.
• 1:58:43
  Tad Eggleston: And we started Stray God.
• 1:58:47
  Phil: I did. Noragami Stray God, I watched the anime some years ago, really enjoyed it, saw this was on Hoopla, said, oh!
• 1:58:54
  Phil: I'd be a fine, a fine, you know.
• 1:58:58
  Phil: volume to pick up. My first impression was, damn, that's a lot of screen tones.
• 1:59:05
  Phil: But but yeah, it's, you know…
• 1:59:08
  Phil: not as well known as One Piece, that's for sure, but I did enjoy it. I think the anime's pretty short, it's only, like, 12 episodes or so, so yeah, it was a fun one.
• 1:59:18
  Phil: It's about…
• 1:59:19
  Tad Eggleston: Is… is the… is the…
• 1:59:21
  Phil: Is the manga as good? We will see.
• 1:59:23
  Tad Eggleston: manga… is the manga pretty short? It looks like the manga.
• 1:59:26
  Phil: No.
• 1:59:26
  Tad Eggleston: is…
• 1:59:27
  Phil: It does look like it goes on.
• 1:59:28
  Tad Eggleston: At least 27 volumes?
• 1:59:30
  Phil: At least. Let me see how many are on Hoopla, because that was one thing that definitely started to irritate me, was when I saw, hey, wow, that… that looks… that looks like a really cool series. Oh, they only have the first four volumes? Dang, I don't… I don't know if I want to read just the first 4 out of, like, 16 volumes of this. That's…
• 1:59:48
  Tad Eggleston: 26 is what I have here.
• 1:59:50
  Phil: 26, wow.
• 1:59:51
  Tad Eggleston: Unless… unless they started… I mean, what's always possible is that they have…
• 1:59:59
  Tad Eggleston: So was yours just Divine Intervention for sale?
• 2:00:03
  Phil: Yeah, so it's just that first one. Okay, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:00:06
  Tad Eggleston: So, so yeah, Fortune Be With You, Fighting the Blight, and Sinister Shinky are apparently what you have left. But then there's 21 volumes after that?
• 2:00:19
  Phil: Wow. Which, honestly, I was…
• 2:00:21
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, 20… I'm sorry, 23 volumes after that. There are 27 volumes right now. 27th volume came out, in December of 2024, so it may.
• 2:00:31
  Phil: or may not.
• 2:00:32
  Tad Eggleston: actually be done.
• 2:00:34
  Phil: Interesting. Yeah, yeah, I could definitely see it continuing on. So let's see here. They've got, at least a… they've got 11 volumes on Hoopla, so I… we'll see how… how far into that I get.
• 2:00:46
  Phil: But… yeah, at least for a start.
• 2:00:48
  Tad Eggleston: It's from Cadansha, though.
• 2:00:50
  Phil: What?
• 2:00:50
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, Cadansha's available to purchase on Global Comics. Oh, oh, okay, so if I am truly hooked…
• 2:00:58
  Tad Eggleston: Right. That's how we'll know.
• 2:00:59
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 2:01:01
  Tad Eggleston: So yeah, and I got… I got one more chapter where we kind of checked in with… with all of the other pirates that are gonna make the, the, the next…
• 2:01:13
  Tad Eggleston: era of One Piece.
• 2:01:18
  Tad Eggleston: So… Yeah.
• 2:01:28
  Tad Eggleston: three books we hope will be spectacular, and I haven't read any that I know will be spectacular, which is a rarity these days. And, like, it actually looks like kind of a light week, which is good, because I have so much that I want to continue from this week.
• 2:01:43
  Tad Eggleston: But, Matt Kent and Thomas Giarello at Bad Idea have saved now number one. Mark Russell and Felix Ruiz at Mad Cave have Terror Bites, number one. Stephanie Phillips and Mark Lemming at Distillery have Endeavor number one. Collect editions of Bitterroot, The Next Movement and Howl.
• 2:02:06
  Tad Eggleston: from Image at Ahoy, respectively. Yeah.
• 2:02:14
  Tad Eggleston: It's a Wonder Woman week, so it's entirely possible that, like, Wonder Woman could wind up on my…
• 2:02:21
  Tad Eggleston: best books, even… even with 3 exciting number ones. Don't Forget Your Briefcase number 4. What are you… what are you looking forward to in trade paperback?
• 2:02:31
  Phil: I… my trade waiter pick is World Tree Volume 3 from James Tynan, Fernando Blanco, Geordie Belair, Image Comics, that's a series that… I mean, honestly, Tynan is probably one of the biggest, figures producing comics right now that I haven't read enough of his massive, massive catalog.
• 2:02:51
  Tad Eggleston: I haven't either.
• 2:02:52
  Phil: Yeah, it's one of those where.
• 2:02:53
  Tad Eggleston: I need to read more, something is Killing the Children. I haven't read poetry at all.
• 2:02:57
  Phil: Yeah.
• 2:02:59
  Phil: I've read the first volume of Department of Truth, the first 2 or 3 of Killing the Children, I don't remember.
• 2:03:05
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I've read The Woods Department of Truth, but I'm… I'm behind on it.
• 2:03:10
  Phil: Yeah.
• 2:03:14
  Phil: That being said, and of course, if you're not reading the Power Fantasy, please start reading the Power Fantasy. I would like it to last longer than just the 16 issues they have planned immediately, and are now deciding whether they can go for further or not. If you're a trade waiter, please jump on single issues. It's so good. There's… it's seriously, it's like a twist every month. It's fantastic. It's my favorite book right now, I love it. I'm so excited for this. For tomorrow!
• 2:03:37
  Tad Eggleston: I enjoyed, I enjoyed getting caught up.
• 2:03:39
  Tad Eggleston: Getting caught up, even if, like, we went off the deep end on…
• 2:03:44
  Phil: Hoo-hoo!
• 2:03:46
  Phil: I feel like the deep end is underselling it at this point, oh my gosh. Oh.
• 2:03:51
  Tad Eggleston: I gotta think of this stuff for, like, book clubs, rather than just having it, like, randomly happen on episodes, Phil.
• 2:03:59
  Phil: It just happened by accident!
• 2:04:00
  Tad Eggleston: I know, but stuff like this seems to happen by accident almost every episode. I mean, most of the time it's in the…
• 2:04:07
  Tad Eggleston: It's in the what kind of week has it been? but, like…
• 2:04:10
  Phil: Yeah.
• 2:04:11
  Tad Eggleston: We can do more bonus episodes, Phil. I'm willing to have conversations with you that are just… about shit.
• 2:04:19
  Phil: Just conversation.
• 2:04:22
  Tad Eggleston: I kind of like these ones that are supposed to be the ones to say, hey, go read.
• 2:04:26
  Phil: Yeah!
• 2:04:27
  Tad Eggleston: order this, and yeah, we'll talk about something else, to be a little bit tighter than we've been pulling off. And some of that's my fault.
• 2:04:34
  Phil: No, that's my fault! I hear that note, too. It's… you know what, to be fair, it's been… it's been an argumentative week for me, more so than usual. Believe it or not, this, this, this, this…
• 2:04:47
  Phil: A semantic breakdown was even worse at my day job this week, and even worse than it is at that day job, as usual.
• 2:04:57
  Phil: So… oh, the world's a wonderful place right now.
• 2:05:00
  Tad Eggleston: It is, it is, so, for, for, 22 panels, this has been,
• 2:05:09
  Tad Eggleston: Episode 205, where we… Completely, fell off the rails and, and…
• 2:05:17
  Tad Eggleston: Did an impromptu, what is the medium?
• 2:05:20
  Tad Eggleston: Great responsibility. In between amazing books and a walk with Phil.
• 2:05:29
  Phil: Who, you know, sometimes… sometimes you go off on a tangent, sometimes a tangent goes off on you.
• 2:05:36
  Tad Eggleston: And we will, we will, see you.
• 2:05:41
  Tad Eggleston: After the next page.