Latest / Patriots Unfiltered / Patriots Draft Countdown: Day 3 of the NFL Scouting Combine, Patriots Director of College Scouting Tony Kinkela Interview

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Patriots Draft Countdown: Day 3 of the NFL Scouting Combine, Patriots Director of College Scouting Tony Kinkela Interview · Patriots Unfiltered

0:00
Speaker 1: From the Indianapolis Combine. It's a Patriots draft countdown presented
0:03
Speaker 1: by bud Light, Easy to Drink, Easy to Enjoy, bud
0:06
Speaker 1: Light the official beer sponsor other the O Equal Patriots. It's
0:09
Speaker 1: Matt Smith along with Mike Dussa. The Combine is rolling
0:12
Speaker 1: on here in Indy. Mike, you're excited about the tight
0:15
Speaker 1: end position today, I am tell us why.
0:17
Speaker 2: Well, Mike Varibel got me excited about it yesterday. Matt
0:19
Speaker 2: when he was asked about what positions he might be
0:22
Speaker 2: looking at. Everyone wants to talk about the edge position.
0:24
Speaker 2: But I was surprised to hear him say this isn't
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Speaker 2: a stack tight end class by any means. I mean,
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Speaker 2: you know, I think a top You have a clear
0:32
Speaker 2: number one in Kenyan Sadik from Oregon. He's a very
0:34
Speaker 2: athletic player and I could see him fit for the Patriots.
0:37
Speaker 2: But really looking more at the lower round prospects, you know,
0:40
Speaker 2: those Day two guys. Could there be an opportunity for
0:42
Speaker 2: the Patriots to draft a young athletic tight end, maybe
0:45
Speaker 2: develop him behind Hunter Henry. They have a decision to
0:48
Speaker 2: make on Austin Hooper as well, So I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued.
0:51
Speaker 2: Max Claire player from Ohio State, just listening to him
0:54
Speaker 2: a second ago, very athletic, maybe underutilized in that offense,
0:57
Speaker 2: was one guy that stood out to me. So think
0:59
Speaker 2: spec we get back from the combine, Matt, we got
1:01
Speaker 2: to dig a little bit more into these tight ends.
1:03
Speaker 3: I don't think Mike Frabel brought it up for no reason.
1:05
Speaker 1: When you talk tight ends, Mike, are you talking about
1:07
Speaker 1: a traditional tight end, meaning a guy who I heard
1:09
Speaker 1: Mike talky yesterday about the different kind of blocking schemes
1:12
Speaker 1: that they want to use with the tight end. To me,
1:14
Speaker 1: when I hear that, that sort of takes a guy
1:16
Speaker 1: like Isaiah Likely off the list if you were thinking
1:19
Speaker 1: about do you want to augment and free agency. So
1:21
Speaker 1: that tells me maybe in the draft they're looking for
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Speaker 1: the more bigger body kind of a guy.
1:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a good point. And I mean, I mean,
1:26
Speaker 2: I wouldn't you know, still rule out Isaiah Likely. I mean,
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Speaker 2: I think the Patriots have shown over the past few
1:31
Speaker 2: years that that they've gotten by without that traditional why
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Speaker 2: tight end that can really block and get in there.
1:37
Speaker 2: We talk so much about getting Drake made weapons. I
1:39
Speaker 2: see this as an opportunity to get a weapon and
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Speaker 2: to get you know, somebody young that Drake may can
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Speaker 2: develop with and become that safety blanket we saw Rob Gronkowski.
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Speaker 3: I mean, there's not another Gronk out there. He's very special.
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Speaker 2: He's one of those guys who ken block and ken run,
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Speaker 2: you know, and can do everything offensively. But I think overall,
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Speaker 2: this is a class that you need talent and if
1:59
Speaker 2: there's guys on on day three that peak your interest.
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Speaker 3: That's what Mike Rabel said.
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Speaker 2: Seems like every time we're scouting these matchups, there seems
2:06
Speaker 2: to be a couple of Day two, Day three type
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Speaker 2: tight ends that playing contribute. So I'm not picky, but
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Speaker 2: I'd love to see a real athlete get in there.
2:14
Speaker 1: One of the other people who are going to have
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Speaker 1: a say in who they're drafting and maybe drafting a
2:18
Speaker 1: tight end is the patriots new director of college scouting,
2:20
Speaker 1: Tony Kakayla, and you and Evan Lazarre had a chance
2:23
Speaker 1: to speak with him earlier in the week.
2:25
Speaker 2: All right, we're excited to be joined now by Tony Kinkella,
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Speaker 2: the director of college scouting for the Patriots.
2:29
Speaker 3: Tony, thanks for joining us here at the combine. I
2:30
Speaker 3: know you're busy.
2:31
Speaker 4: Nah, shoot, yeah, it's great week, but great to be here.
2:33
Speaker 4: Appreciate you guys having me and look forward to it.
2:34
Speaker 3: How many combines is this for you?
2:36
Speaker 4: This is number seventeen for me in all And do
2:39
Speaker 4: you still love it? Yeah? I mean I get to
2:42
Speaker 4: watch football for a living, so it's hard for that
2:44
Speaker 4: to get old. How much least?
2:45
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, you guys have done all the
2:47
Speaker 2: work with the scouting and you get to here and
2:48
Speaker 2: you get to do the medicals and all that, But
2:50
Speaker 2: is the most valuable part getting to sit down in
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Speaker 2: a room with these guys and really get a sense
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Speaker 2: of them.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say so. It's you know, we do
2:56
Speaker 4: so much work, you know, August, September, through the season
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Speaker 4: into December, all Star games, things like that, and for
3:01
Speaker 4: a lot of these guys, it's our first opportunity to
3:04
Speaker 4: sit down with them and spend a little bit of
3:06
Speaker 4: time with them after hearing so much about them. So
3:08
Speaker 4: it's you know, it's cool to hear their story and
3:11
Speaker 4: their words and where they're from, what they're about, and
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Speaker 4: what they're excited for and where they can grow and
3:17
Speaker 4: just to kind of compare what we know about them,
3:18
Speaker 4: what we think we know about them, and they can
3:20
Speaker 4: get to hear it in their words. You know.
3:22
Speaker 5: Obviously the team on the field has been in the
3:24
Speaker 5: Super Bowl, had great playoff run, but you guys have
3:27
Speaker 5: been working, you know, on the college side, and it's
3:30
Speaker 5: not like you guys have been, you know, five weeks behind.
3:33
Speaker 3: I'm sure.
3:33
Speaker 5: So can you just tell everybody what you guys have
3:36
Speaker 5: kind of been doing, going all the way back to
3:39
Speaker 5: the Senior Bowl, Shine Bowl and all that kind of stuff.
3:41
Speaker 4: You know. January was a lot of fun and it
3:42
Speaker 4: was a really unique experience. Obviously busy with the different
3:47
Speaker 4: All Star Games, evaluating players on the field through practice
3:51
Speaker 4: and things like that, and getting an opportunity. We've get
3:53
Speaker 4: an opportunity to sit down with guys who went to
3:54
Speaker 4: those All Star games, you know, and interview them too,
3:58
Speaker 4: and so spend some time with them. It's another touch point.
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Speaker 4: It's another opportunity to get with those guys. I say,
4:03
Speaker 4: it was a unique experience. It was really cool because
4:06
Speaker 4: our college staff was together a lot of the month,
4:08
Speaker 4: and then obviously the success we were having as a team,
4:11
Speaker 4: we were as a college staff, we were all together.
4:14
Speaker 4: We had a room at the hotel we were in
4:17
Speaker 4: Orlando when we beat the Texans, and so that was
4:19
Speaker 4: a lot of fun. We were iced in in Dallas
4:22
Speaker 4: for the East West game, couldn't go anywhere. We were
4:25
Speaker 4: in a room together for you know, watching the Broncos
4:28
Speaker 4: game on TV, and so it was really cool. One
4:32
Speaker 4: the excitement of what we were about to do. You know,
4:34
Speaker 4: we were doing our work for the team. On the
4:36
Speaker 4: college side, we weren't with the team. There's you know,
4:38
Speaker 4: a lot of times we're in one place the team's
4:39
Speaker 4: in another. But to be all together as a college
4:42
Speaker 4: staff was really cool and really rewarding all of the
4:45
Speaker 4: work we put in, all of the work the team
4:48
Speaker 4: puts in to realize that success and those sorts of things.
4:51
Speaker 4: So it was it was a lot of fun, something
4:53
Speaker 4: and something I'll remember that that.
4:54
Speaker 3: Is really cool.
4:55
Speaker 5: I figure you guys might not have been able to
4:57
Speaker 5: be there at all the playoff games you do in
4:59
Speaker 5: your work, so you guys at least got to watch
5:01
Speaker 5: it together and celebrate together.
5:03
Speaker 3: That's really cool.
5:04
Speaker 5: The other question I just wanted to ask you about
5:07
Speaker 5: was Elliott had mentioned yesterday that you guys are maybe
5:11
Speaker 5: a week behind in terms of the meetings on the
5:14
Speaker 5: draft side, because you guys were in.
5:15
Speaker 3: The Super Bowl.
5:16
Speaker 5: Geah, A good excuse, Yeah, And just what were those
5:18
Speaker 5: meetings like once you guys got home and were able
5:21
Speaker 5: to have them.
5:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, great problems to have, haven't you know? We were
5:24
Speaker 4: supposed to start actually a week earlier, and then obviously
5:26
Speaker 4: had to push things back, so it was, you know,
5:29
Speaker 4: still really productive. It was just it's January and then
5:32
Speaker 4: into February, it felt like it was just one day
5:35
Speaker 4: to the next, just trying to keep your head above
5:37
Speaker 4: water in some sense. But our guys did a great
5:39
Speaker 4: job doing the work through the fall to be prepared.
5:42
Speaker 4: We had a good first round of meetings in December.
5:45
Speaker 4: We did kind of laid some of the groundwork on guys,
5:47
Speaker 4: continue that through the All Star Games and then into February.
5:50
Speaker 4: And February is where we really like to get together,
5:52
Speaker 4: talk about the person, talk about the player, where we
5:55
Speaker 4: kind of see their fit for our team, where we
5:58
Speaker 4: see their value coming initially in the board, in the draft,
6:02
Speaker 4: and just get an initial kind of set for us
6:05
Speaker 4: before heading into the combine and Pro Day's and then
6:07
Speaker 4: in aprils we head towards the draft.
6:09
Speaker 2: You got great contributions from this year's rookie class. Were
6:12
Speaker 2: there any of those guys that made a real impression
6:14
Speaker 2: here at the combine? Maybe something that stood out to.
6:16
Speaker 4: You, you know, the one guy. And I've got a
6:19
Speaker 4: lot of experience being out west for a lot of
6:21
Speaker 4: my career, right Like, so, Craig Woodson, He's a guy
6:24
Speaker 4: that I followed for a long time back to cal
6:27
Speaker 4: you know, he he's overcome some things, had a knee injury,
6:30
Speaker 4: he overcame and just really grew to respect who he
6:34
Speaker 4: was as a person first, the type of work ethic
6:37
Speaker 4: he had, the type of character he had, the type
6:40
Speaker 4: of leadership he had, the consistency, and I thought all
6:42
Speaker 4: of that showed, you know, in his first year, the
6:46
Speaker 4: ability to play so many snaps for us to continue
6:49
Speaker 4: to improve the playoff run. I thought he played really
6:51
Speaker 4: well down the stretch.
6:52
Speaker 2: But I was gonna just say, I mean, it's got
6:53
Speaker 2: to be really satisfying to see. Yeah, I mean he
6:55
Speaker 2: played a lot of snaps and you know, was getting experience,
6:57
Speaker 2: but then it felt like down the stretch, yeah he's
6:59
Speaker 2: making plays on that.
7:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really you know, as as a scout, as
7:02
Speaker 4: a personnel guy, you know, it's really rewarding when those
7:04
Speaker 4: types of guys, you know, taking Craig in the fourth
7:06
Speaker 4: round and to see it, had to see him have
7:10
Speaker 4: the first year. Now we've got to go build upon it,
7:11
Speaker 4: of course, and all those sorts of things. But I
7:14
Speaker 4: can't say I was surprised, just because of the type
7:17
Speaker 4: of person that Greg is.
7:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, you must have had an eye on Kyle Williams
7:20
Speaker 2: assume too, of being a Koog and all that.
7:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, went to Washington State, so certainly pulled for
7:25
Speaker 4: those guys, and it was really cool to see Kyle's
7:27
Speaker 4: growth in that last year at Washington State and then
7:30
Speaker 4: you know in this year and excited about what he's doing,
7:32
Speaker 4: where he's going, what he's got got a chance to
7:33
Speaker 4: do going forward to.
7:34
Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember seeing him down at the Senior Bowl
7:36
Speaker 5: and they go in alphabetical order in some of the drills,
7:40
Speaker 5: and he was always the last one in his line
7:42
Speaker 5: to go one on ones and so been you like
7:45
Speaker 5: kind of stayed at the end, you know, because he
7:47
Speaker 5: was doing some great things.
7:48
Speaker 4: I mentioned building.
7:50
Speaker 5: On you last year and all that kind of stuff.
7:51
Speaker 5: Just wanted to ask you just generally about this year's
7:54
Speaker 5: draft class and what do you kind of see a
7:56
Speaker 5: sort of the strengths of the class this year.
7:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, every draft classes, you you know, some years you're
8:01
Speaker 4: gonna have better You'll be better in different spots. And
8:03
Speaker 4: that's what I really enjoy about the process is it's
8:06
Speaker 4: it's a new year every year. You know. I think
8:08
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of intrigue and intriguing players
8:11
Speaker 4: at the edge position, you know, tackle, I would say,
8:14
Speaker 4: it's still a little unsettled, but you've got a lot
8:16
Speaker 4: of talent, a lot of variation in terms of who
8:18
Speaker 4: the players are and their skill sets and their abilities.
8:19
Speaker 4: Wide receiver you could kind of say the same thing.
8:21
Speaker 4: So some talented guys and bigger bodies, some some smaller, quicker,
8:26
Speaker 4: you know types of playmakers. But but edge I would
8:28
Speaker 4: say definitely stands out as a players as a position
8:31
Speaker 4: with you know, players with a lot of talent, a
8:33
Speaker 4: lot of ability, a lot of ability to get after
8:35
Speaker 4: the passer. And so you know that that's certainly exciting
8:37
Speaker 4: to dig into.
8:38
Speaker 2: How much does it change from your perspective picking this
8:40
Speaker 2: low in the draft. I mean, you guys, I mean
8:42
Speaker 2: you're at the top. You know, it's all right, it's
8:43
Speaker 2: gonna be one of these probably three guys and now
8:45
Speaker 2: I mean Evan and I I'm like blasting mock drafts, like,
8:48
Speaker 2: all right, who are the guys that are kind of
8:50
Speaker 2: going to be in this area and and who might
8:52
Speaker 2: fall through the cracks? I imagine you have to gain
8:54
Speaker 2: that stuff.
8:54
Speaker 4: Out a lot. Yeah, you do. I mean, you know,
8:56
Speaker 4: there's there's so much out of your control. You know,
8:58
Speaker 4: you've got thirty picks before you, and you know, obviously
9:00
Speaker 4: we can move around to do different things. But I
9:02
Speaker 4: mean there's going to be a number of players that
9:04
Speaker 4: we've watched that we like, that we think are really
9:07
Speaker 4: good players that would help us, that we know are
9:09
Speaker 4: probably you know, probably won't be there by the time
9:12
Speaker 4: we're making our first selection. Again, good problems to have.
9:15
Speaker 4: We're hoping to picking that, you know, down in that
9:17
Speaker 4: range more often than not, certainly. But yeah, I mean
9:20
Speaker 4: that's just it's it's frustrating. It's it's it's frustrated probably
9:23
Speaker 4: not the word, it's just it. You know, it is
9:25
Speaker 4: what it is. You just know what's going to be happening,
9:27
Speaker 4: and you know, you know you have to adjust maybe
9:31
Speaker 4: you know who's going to be in play for you,
9:32
Speaker 4: And that continues to gain clarity, I would say, as
9:35
Speaker 4: we get closer into April and have a better idea
9:37
Speaker 4: of who's going to be there and who might be
9:39
Speaker 4: around when we're picking first.
9:40
Speaker 5: The other thing that Elliott said when we were talking
9:43
Speaker 5: to him that I didn't think about that he kind
9:45
Speaker 5: of shed some light on, was you guys were picking
9:48
Speaker 5: thirty six last year in the second round. So even
9:50
Speaker 5: though it's like, you know, not you don't have that
9:53
Speaker 5: tie pick in the first round, you still kind of
9:55
Speaker 5: had to scout this same cluster of players for thirty six.
9:58
Speaker 3: But does it change the.
9:59
Speaker 5: Fact that there's going to to be a one you
10:01
Speaker 5: know next to the name still and it's a first
10:03
Speaker 5: round pick versus it second or is it kind of
10:05
Speaker 5: the same thing?
10:06
Speaker 4: No? I think yeah, I think it's the same thing,
10:08
Speaker 4: because whether it's our first pick or our second, you know,
10:10
Speaker 4: you're you're trying to find good players who will contribute,
10:12
Speaker 4: you know, to your program and be good people and
10:14
Speaker 4: make good decisions and all those sorts of things. So
10:16
Speaker 4: whether it's your first, second, fourth, seventh pick, whatever it is, Yeah,
10:19
Speaker 4: we're just trying to build a team and build a
10:20
Speaker 4: team of good people. The good players, guys are going
10:23
Speaker 4: to contribute to be about the right things and help us,
10:25
Speaker 4: you know, help us to continue to get better. Yeah.
10:28
Speaker 2: One more for me, just watching this team this year,
10:30
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, we heard what play style
10:32
Speaker 2: for Abele wanted for the team, and it just jumped
10:35
Speaker 2: off the field. And now it's like when we come
10:37
Speaker 2: to these things and we're watching players and like, that's
10:39
Speaker 2: a rable guy.
10:40
Speaker 3: I mean, these are guys who just play with their
10:42
Speaker 3: hair on fire.
10:42
Speaker 2: It seems like from a scouting perspective, it's very clearly
10:45
Speaker 2: defined from the top.
10:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, you guys are look, yeah you coach Rabel been
10:48
Speaker 4: awesome and his staff has been great, really good people
10:50
Speaker 4: to work for. The clarity they provide, the types of
10:53
Speaker 4: you know that the people there, they are that they
10:55
Speaker 4: want to be about. You know, I think that show
10:57
Speaker 4: and our team this year, it's just you know, and
11:00
Speaker 4: just the identity that he that he sets and that
11:03
Speaker 4: he you know, he demands in our program is awesome.
11:06
Speaker 4: It helps our jobs scouts to understand what we want
11:08
Speaker 4: to be about. Obviously, you know, you want to evaluate
11:11
Speaker 4: every player for you know, for who they are, but yeah,
11:14
Speaker 4: you do see those types of guys and they stand
11:17
Speaker 4: out and say, yeah, you know, I really like that guy.
11:19
Speaker 4: He'd fit well with us.
11:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just a continuity and you know, kind of
11:23
Speaker 5: piggybacking off of that, you know, coach McDaniels can be
11:26
Speaker 5: back as the OC. You know, Zach Korb now the
11:28
Speaker 5: defensive coordinator. How much does that help now to like
11:31
Speaker 5: have the same exact coaching staff two years in a
11:34
Speaker 5: row along those same lines.
11:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, for in my opinion, it's big and
11:38
Speaker 4: again just building relationships with our staff. You know, we're
11:42
Speaker 4: a lot of times running running parallel of each other, right,
11:45
Speaker 4: you know, coaches their need deep in the season with
11:47
Speaker 4: the team, with the players and week to week and
11:49
Speaker 4: all those sorts of things while we're off and visiting
11:51
Speaker 4: different places across the country and doing our thing. And
11:53
Speaker 4: so it's it's fun for me to come together, get
11:55
Speaker 4: an opportunity to be around these guys a little bit
11:57
Speaker 4: more of the coaching staff, work with them because you know,
11:59
Speaker 4: they've they do so much for us throughout the year.
12:03
Speaker 4: We really appreciate their perspective. It's good to hear what
12:05
Speaker 4: they think about the groups and players and things like that,
12:09
Speaker 4: and so just excited to dig in with them. It's
12:11
Speaker 4: great to be able to get to know them on
12:13
Speaker 4: a more personal level for a second year. And the
12:15
Speaker 4: better we know each other, I think, the better we're
12:16
Speaker 4: going to work together.
12:17
Speaker 5: It's a great group of guys. Act too like we've
12:20
Speaker 5: got ten to fifteen minutes with them once a week,
12:22
Speaker 5: but they're all just great guys. I think that this
12:24
Speaker 5: is one of the best easiest to talk to coaching
12:28
Speaker 5: staffs that we've worked with, which is really cool.
12:30
Speaker 4: No, No, it's been a great group. Yeah. Just continue
12:33
Speaker 4: to be more and more excited about who we are,
12:35
Speaker 4: what we want to be about in the direction we're going,
12:37
Speaker 4: and it's on us to continue to do the work
12:39
Speaker 4: to try and get there.
12:40
Speaker 3: Awesome. Well, Tony, thank you so much for the time.
12:42
Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate it. This was a
12:44
Speaker 4: fun Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.
12:45
Speaker 3: Guess every shireme it's Tony Kinkella. Thanks everybody, Mike.
12:48
Speaker 1: I find Tony's kind of a bright kid, refreshing, you
12:51
Speaker 1: know to hear. His a lot of experience in that position.
12:54
Speaker 1: So he's a new person to be part of the
12:56
Speaker 1: decision making with the Patriots. I know there's another position today.
13:00
Speaker 1: Has you intrigued that if you look at it when
13:03
Speaker 1: you go, well, really, where's the need matchup with what's
13:05
Speaker 1: going on? But that's defensive back. Do you see that
13:08
Speaker 1: as a position that might intrigue the Patriots?
13:10
Speaker 3: Well, I think start with the safety position.
13:12
Speaker 2: And I think you got to mention Caleb Downs, who,
13:14
Speaker 2: by many accounts is maybe the best player in this
13:17
Speaker 2: whole draft.
13:17
Speaker 3: A lot of people are saying that, right, Yeah, And.
13:19
Speaker 2: He spoke earlier at the podium, talked about Matt Patricia
13:23
Speaker 2: and the impact that Matt Patricia had on him and overall,
13:26
Speaker 2: you know, seeing the game from a higher level, understanding
13:28
Speaker 2: why they're doing things and how he could take things
13:30
Speaker 2: away from certain offenses. So Jalen Hawkins as a free agent,
13:33
Speaker 2: could see him coming back for sure. Seemed to blossom
13:35
Speaker 2: last year and in a starting role. But you look,
13:38
Speaker 2: then Del Pattis is your third safety kind of more
13:40
Speaker 2: of a special teams guy. So even if you were
13:42
Speaker 2: to bring back Jalen Hawkins, is there still a need
13:45
Speaker 2: maybe to continue to pad that group and maybe try
13:48
Speaker 2: to find you know, I mean, I think both the
13:49
Speaker 2: guys they have and Craig Woodson came on can cover
13:52
Speaker 2: on the back end. So it gives you some flexibility
13:54
Speaker 2: that maybe you want to find one of those kind
13:56
Speaker 2: of dime linebacker safety types later in the draft. I
13:59
Speaker 2: don't see safety as huge need. I mean, I think
14:01
Speaker 2: I'd be okay with Hawkins, But I do think we'll
14:03
Speaker 2: see what happens in free agency. That's a starting hole.
14:05
Speaker 2: If they don't fill it with Hawkins, they're gonna have
14:07
Speaker 2: to fill it with somebody. Then on the cornerbacks, you
14:09
Speaker 2: like it. I mean, you got Christian Gonzalez the focus
14:11
Speaker 2: this year right now, they got to figure out how
14:13
Speaker 2: to how to sign him priority right. And Marcus Jones
14:17
Speaker 2: in the slot sign an extension last year. Had an
14:19
Speaker 2: outstanding year, not only as a put returner, but making
14:22
Speaker 2: plays on the ball, making plays in the backfield. And
14:24
Speaker 2: then you look at Carlton Davis, who really came on
14:26
Speaker 2: in the playoffs, had a couple of interceptions in that
14:28
Speaker 2: Houston game.
14:30
Speaker 3: But he's going, you know, twenty nine, a little bit older.
14:32
Speaker 3: You want to padd some depth in there.
14:33
Speaker 2: We had a lot of times this year where Carlton
14:35
Speaker 2: Davis going over to the you know, over to the
14:36
Speaker 2: booth there, you know, going over to the blue ten
14:38
Speaker 2: for a second, and then he's back in the game.
14:39
Speaker 2: So I think they dodged some bullets this year with
14:41
Speaker 2: Carlton Davis, with some little bumps and bruises along the way.
14:44
Speaker 3: But another position where you're thinking more depths.
14:46
Speaker 2: So not oh this is you know a position like
14:49
Speaker 2: edge or tight end or wide receiver that you really
14:51
Speaker 2: locked in on here. But I do think these are
14:53
Speaker 2: kind of sneaky needs at the end where you want
14:55
Speaker 2: to pad your depth and continue to develop those players.
14:58
Speaker 1: Another analyst that we had earlier on in the week
15:00
Speaker 1: that joined Mike in Evan from the NFL Network was
15:03
Speaker 1: a gentleman by the name of Mark Ross.
15:05
Speaker 2: All Right, we're exciting now to be joined by Mark
15:07
Speaker 2: Ross from NFL Network Draft the analyst.
15:09
Speaker 3: Mark, thanks for sitting down with that pleasure, my pleasure.
15:11
Speaker 3: We're in a little bit of a different position this year.
15:12
Speaker 2: We've been picking out at the top for a while
15:15
Speaker 2: and now suddenly we're back down at thirty one.
15:17
Speaker 3: How do you see this draft playing out?
15:18
Speaker 2: I feel like at that point you kind of wait
15:20
Speaker 2: and see maybe who falls through the crack.
15:22
Speaker 6: Yeah, speaking of your flip, I'm going to pat myself
15:24
Speaker 6: on the back a little bit. Our preseason predictions and shows.
15:27
Speaker 6: We used to talk about what team can make the jump.
15:28
Speaker 6: I said, the Patriots are going to flip their record.
15:30
Speaker 6: All right, it's on record, it's there. I said, they're
15:33
Speaker 6: going to flip their record. Then think you go to
15:35
Speaker 6: the super Bowl. But things failed the right way. But
15:38
Speaker 6: you know this week for the Patriots just you know,
15:40
Speaker 6: last year was just all right, what are we doing
15:42
Speaker 6: with that? Like none of these players are on the team, right,
15:44
Speaker 6: and then you go crush it in free agency, you
15:47
Speaker 6: went and crushed it in the draft, and now you
15:49
Speaker 6: built that foundation and now it's okay, we're in a
15:51
Speaker 6: completely different place. Now you know, what do we do here?
15:55
Speaker 6: But you know, be a cautionary tale where Washington last
15:58
Speaker 6: year was in this position where they their timetable got
16:01
Speaker 6: accelerated so fast, like it was almost the worst thing
16:03
Speaker 6: they could have done making it to the NFC Championship game. Yeah,
16:07
Speaker 6: because then they went all in on this, like let's
16:09
Speaker 6: go do it now, and then it kind of fell apart.
16:11
Speaker 6: So you know, that's I think the Patriots have a
16:14
Speaker 6: better foundation, a lot more players than the Commanders had,
16:17
Speaker 6: but the same kind of theme of okay, we still
16:19
Speaker 6: got to be smart the way we're building this and
16:22
Speaker 6: make sure we identify the right players who are going
16:24
Speaker 6: to get us to win it now as opposed to
16:26
Speaker 6: just getting there.
16:27
Speaker 4: No.
16:27
Speaker 5: I love that perspective because we've had debates on our
16:30
Speaker 5: shows because a couple of months ago, I said, well,
16:32
Speaker 5: we don't want to be the commanders, right, we don't
16:35
Speaker 5: want to like push the chips in too quickly. But
16:37
Speaker 5: then the super Bowl happens and that the playoff run happens,
16:40
Speaker 5: and I'm like, man, if they get Max Crosby.
16:43
Speaker 3: You're right back here.
16:44
Speaker 5: But what it is just sort of your perspective there on,
16:47
Speaker 5: you know, how to kind of slowly continue to build
16:50
Speaker 5: this thing while recognizing like how much success that they had.
16:54
Speaker 6: Like, well, you still have to I mean, if you
16:55
Speaker 6: have money, you got to spend it. You just can't
16:58
Speaker 6: sit there or not. So if there's a certain players
17:00
Speaker 6: out there, you still have to be smart with the money.
17:03
Speaker 6: Smartness is like last year the Freezer, like y'all had
17:05
Speaker 6: the money, you had to spend it, and you spent
17:07
Speaker 6: it wise, Like okay, Bill Williams and Carl You going
17:10
Speaker 6: through the whole list, like no, this makes sense. It
17:12
Speaker 6: was like why did they do that? You know, it
17:14
Speaker 6: all made sense. So again I think with that approach
17:17
Speaker 6: with Elliott and Vrabel and how they're going to approaches,
17:19
Speaker 6: it is still smartly making these decisions of how to
17:23
Speaker 6: allocate the money and you're signing your own guys, and
17:25
Speaker 6: then in the draft as well, of okay, we know
17:27
Speaker 6: how to how to identify playmakers and let's just continue
17:30
Speaker 6: doing that.
17:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of playmakers, they need at edges.
17:33
Speaker 2: Obviously, Ellie Wolf talked about yesterday strong draft class. When
17:37
Speaker 2: you look at the play style that Mike Rabel's looking
17:39
Speaker 2: for and you look at this edge class, are there
17:41
Speaker 2: are any guys that you see, you know, maybe that
17:43
Speaker 2: slip through the cracks down there or in the thirties
17:45
Speaker 2: that might fit.
17:46
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's it's it's intriguing group there. And I think
17:50
Speaker 6: you know Mesador from Miami because he's older, Like if
17:54
Speaker 6: you just watched him, he didn't know how old he was. Like, man,
17:56
Speaker 6: this is the best edge rusher in the draft. Now, okay,
17:58
Speaker 6: now you've got a factor in that up stuff. So
18:01
Speaker 6: of the guys there, of course we've heard about Bane
18:03
Speaker 6: and Bailey and those dudes, but Mesidor could be that
18:05
Speaker 6: one that gets down there because of the age factor
18:08
Speaker 6: and teams it'll be scared away. But I mean he's
18:11
Speaker 6: a monster. I mean watching those two guys play, you
18:14
Speaker 6: understood why might be made it to the Championshicking once
18:16
Speaker 6: I started watching film on them. So of those top guys,
18:20
Speaker 6: the younger ones, not as many red flags. He's the
18:23
Speaker 6: one that kind of could kind of creep down there
18:25
Speaker 6: when you have.
18:26
Speaker 5: Say a part of the draft class that's that deep,
18:30
Speaker 5: like edge rusher. And it does feel like this year
18:32
Speaker 5: it's kind of a flavors thing too, where like there's
18:35
Speaker 5: some guys that are like to sixty five and there's
18:37
Speaker 5: some guys that are two forty. Does that kind of
18:39
Speaker 5: make it almost easier in a way because you kind
18:42
Speaker 5: of know what your fit is and like sort of
18:45
Speaker 5: what the guy you want.
18:46
Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure, And that's where your scouting staff and
18:48
Speaker 6: your coaching staff have to be on that one accord
18:50
Speaker 6: to know, you know, this is the type of players
18:53
Speaker 6: that fit us. And you see a lot of the
18:56
Speaker 6: teams with success, let's say of Baltimore's of the world,
18:58
Speaker 6: where those guys have been together, this is their system.
19:01
Speaker 6: Now we just got to find those players that we
19:02
Speaker 6: know fit as opposed to Okay, new coaching staff, a
19:05
Speaker 6: new scouting Well, what are we really looking for? What
19:07
Speaker 6: are we identifying here? And you know with the Giants
19:10
Speaker 6: it was always we just worked hand in hand of all, right,
19:13
Speaker 6: there's no guests work where this guy is not going
19:15
Speaker 6: to fit us. We're not going to bring in a
19:17
Speaker 6: you know, ex player that has these measurables or this
19:19
Speaker 6: skill set because we know he doesn't fit. Now, the
19:22
Speaker 6: talent is super supreme, like you better find a way
19:25
Speaker 6: to get them on your squad. So that's why it's
19:27
Speaker 6: so important for those guys to work together to know
19:31
Speaker 6: what a Patriot player is.
19:33
Speaker 2: Is there any position group in this drought class you
19:35
Speaker 2: think maybe underrated? Maybe there's some value specifically in day two,
19:38
Speaker 2: maybe into day three. I know running backs off in
19:40
Speaker 2: a group that that's where you take those flyers.
19:42
Speaker 3: But is there another position group you feel likes a
19:45
Speaker 3: little deeper?
19:45
Speaker 6: Maybe, well, I think the edge group because it is
19:47
Speaker 6: so as you mentioned the differences in those guys, so
19:50
Speaker 6: you could see a lot of fluctuation of thirty two
19:52
Speaker 6: teams will have all i'd say the top ten rank
19:56
Speaker 6: completely different, whereas in years past, you know there's one
19:58
Speaker 6: or two dudes you know are really those are the
20:00
Speaker 6: there's the Miles Garrett, there's the you know that guy,
20:04
Speaker 6: Whereas this year that depth will go with the edge
20:07
Speaker 6: rushers because they are so different. And I think there's
20:09
Speaker 6: a really good group of good, good players. You know,
20:12
Speaker 6: when you watch players, you want to say that's a
20:14
Speaker 6: good player. Not well, I know he ran fat, but
20:17
Speaker 6: well he's not productive. You know, you never want that.
20:19
Speaker 6: So I think there's a really good group of those
20:21
Speaker 6: edge guys, Like he's a good player, and let's see
20:24
Speaker 6: if he's our guy.
20:25
Speaker 5: You mentioned your time with the Giants, which I'll let go.
20:27
Speaker 5: You know about that, but we'll let that one go.
20:32
Speaker 5: Just you hear a lot about the combine and that
20:36
Speaker 5: the stuff that happens on the field at Lucas Oil
20:38
Speaker 5: at the end of the week is kind of not
20:40
Speaker 5: the real combline, right, you know all the stuff behind
20:42
Speaker 5: the scenes.
20:43
Speaker 3: Is that true?
20:45
Speaker 5: Would you say that that's accurate?
20:47
Speaker 6: Yeah? Well, different teams plays different value on what goes
20:49
Speaker 6: on this week. And you know all I mentioned all
20:51
Speaker 6: thirty two teams ranked different. It's all thirty two ranked.
20:55
Speaker 6: What the importance is to now teams aren't even here,
20:58
Speaker 6: you know this. Sean mcvayson situation early where we're not
21:01
Speaker 6: going and they want and success, so other teams, well
21:03
Speaker 6: we can do that as well, whereas other teams only
21:06
Speaker 6: send half their staff. And for the most part, people
21:09
Speaker 6: don't know that the scouts have been on the road
21:11
Speaker 6: since August, you know, July and the July August when
21:15
Speaker 6: Kyle they put the bulk. They put ninety percent of
21:17
Speaker 6: the work into what goes on. They should be anyway,
21:20
Speaker 6: and then this after season portion of it is massage.
21:25
Speaker 6: Should be massaging all of this so your foundation should
21:28
Speaker 6: be built whenever you have your first draft meetings before
21:30
Speaker 6: the combine of here's our draft board. Here are the
21:32
Speaker 6: guys we identify. This is all the work our scouts
21:34
Speaker 6: have been busting their butts all year long to do.
21:37
Speaker 6: And now don't have a coach. See somebody run a
21:40
Speaker 6: forty and change what we got going on here. You know,
21:43
Speaker 6: that's when you start getting into mistakes, when the after
21:45
Speaker 6: season process you start inventing players or crushing players. To me,
21:50
Speaker 6: it's really about always the success of the best teams.
21:52
Speaker 6: Identify the really good players on the field and let
21:55
Speaker 6: this process massage the rest.
21:58
Speaker 2: Just one more for you, Mark, is there a player
22:00
Speaker 2: two that you just love in this draft couple guys
22:02
Speaker 2: that just yeah, favorite guy.
22:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, every year I have a favorite and stuff. This
22:05
Speaker 6: year it's a art Thomas Mason, Mason Thomas from Oklahoma. Yeah,
22:10
Speaker 6: you mean you talk about Mesador being that this guy.
22:13
Speaker 6: When I started to watch him, he was just fun.
22:15
Speaker 6: Fun to watch. There certain ones you evaluate and you
22:17
Speaker 6: just keep watching him just because you want to see
22:18
Speaker 6: them do fun stuff and entertaining stuff. So a little
22:21
Speaker 6: bit undersize, but you know, compare me to compare Robert
22:25
Speaker 6: Mathis home. You remember Robert Mathis from right here with
22:27
Speaker 6: the Colts terrorized a little bit. Yeah, like that same
22:31
Speaker 6: kind of build, that same sort of explosiveness, just much
22:34
Speaker 6: tougher and stronger, more powerful for their size. So I
22:37
Speaker 6: think you know, he's a guy down there as well
22:39
Speaker 6: that like that's a that's a patriotype, that's a verable
22:43
Speaker 6: type player for me too.
22:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think we're all on the same page there.
22:47
Speaker 5: You mentioned the uh, you know, coaches kind of coming
22:50
Speaker 5: in and changing the scouting and all that how often
22:53
Speaker 5: because you know, we just kind of nerd out and
22:55
Speaker 5: sit here and talk about prospects all day long and
22:58
Speaker 5: argue how much does that actually happened behind the scenes
23:01
Speaker 5: that you guys are just in a room of meeting
23:03
Speaker 5: room and somebody is standing on the table from somebody
23:06
Speaker 5: and you're kind of going back and forth.
23:07
Speaker 6: You know, all coaches aren't created the same, All scouts
23:09
Speaker 6: aren't created the same. All working relationships aren't the same.
23:12
Speaker 6: So that's why again you have to have those relationship
23:14
Speaker 6: with your coaches. And you know your dB coach may
23:17
Speaker 6: know the like, oh cool, I know this is whereas
23:19
Speaker 6: your O link in your office every.
23:21
Speaker 3: Day, Mark, Hey, what about you? Can I get my
23:23
Speaker 3: guy up?
23:23
Speaker 6: Can I get So that's a that's a real thing
23:25
Speaker 6: where either in the meeting or behind the scenes, guys
23:29
Speaker 6: are fighting a lobbying for their players because it's a
23:32
Speaker 6: natural inclinations like I want more players. You know that's
23:35
Speaker 6: natural for coaches. I always understood, like I get it,
23:38
Speaker 6: I get it. But you know this is we're trying
23:40
Speaker 6: to do what's best for the team and get the
23:41
Speaker 6: value for the team, not just your certain position. And
23:45
Speaker 6: the best teams that do it they know that relationship
23:48
Speaker 6: and how to navigate that.
23:50
Speaker 2: Awesome Well, Mark, thank you so much for sitting down
23:51
Speaker 2: with us and joy the rest of the classes.
23:53
Speaker 4: I appreciate it, my pleasure.
23:55
Speaker 3: Right deuce.
23:55
Speaker 1: What's on the docket as far as tomorrow, What are
23:57
Speaker 1: the things that might catch you your eye? As far
24:00
Speaker 1: as a combine is concerned tomorrow.
24:01
Speaker 2: I think it's everybody's favorite day, maybe the wide receivers
24:03
Speaker 2: and the quarterbacks. Not so much the quarterbacks for us anymore,
24:06
Speaker 2: but we're always looking for those wide receivers. And you know,
24:09
Speaker 2: as Mike Rabel said here, you're not going to get
24:11
Speaker 2: that number one wide receiver in free agency. It's very
24:13
Speaker 2: hard to thread that needle. You've got to continue to
24:16
Speaker 2: draft these guys and develop them. So, you know, a
24:18
Speaker 2: guy like Casey Concepcion is a big name out there
24:21
Speaker 2: around that part of the draft where the Patriots will
24:23
Speaker 2: be picking explosive, dynamic player that maybe could really add
24:27
Speaker 2: something to the offense. So we wouldn't be doing our
24:29
Speaker 2: job if we weren't all over the wide receivers tomorrow.
24:31
Speaker 3: So I'm looking forward to those. That's great.
24:33
Speaker 1: That's it for this edition of the Patriots Draft Countdown,
24:35
Speaker 1: presented by Bud. Like to stay with us as content
24:38
Speaker 1: continues to roll down the pike from the Combine here
24:40
Speaker 1: in Indianapolis,