Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / FINALLY, JUSTICE for Girl, 9, Raped & Murdered Just Yards from Home

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FINALLY, JUSTICE for Girl, 9, Raped & Murdered Just Yards from Home · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.
0:13
Speaker 2: An absolutely precious little nine year old girl goes missing,
0:21
Speaker 2: literally yards away from her home from the laundromat. A
0:30
Speaker 2: frantic search ensues. Volunteers find Debbie's body. She has been horribly,
0:43
Speaker 2: horribly sex assaulted. She's dead years past. The case goes
0:53
Speaker 2: cold in the last days. An amazing twist in the
1:01
Speaker 2: case of a beautiful little girl, Debbie Lynn Randall. I'm
1:09
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
1:12
Speaker 2: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious xem one eleven.
1:16
Speaker 2: First of all, take a listen to the elected District
1:21
Speaker 2: Attorney in Cobb County, Flynn D. Brodie, Junior.
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Speaker 3: Today we are here to provide an answer and perhaps
1:27
Speaker 3: some sembilance of closure to the family of Debbie Lynn Randall,
1:32
Speaker 3: whose young life and bright smile ended fifty one years ago,
1:37
Speaker 3: gone too soon at the age of nine years old.
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Speaker 3: On January thirteenth, nineteen seventy two, Debbie Lynn Randall, a
1:44
Speaker 3: third grade student at Pine Forest Elementary School, was walking
1:48
Speaker 3: home from the laundromat when she was abducted, raped, and killed.
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Speaker 3: The laundrymat was only a half block away from her home.
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Speaker 3: She was found sixteen days long after an extensive search
2:02
Speaker 3: from the community which over four thousand members participated, she
2:07
Speaker 3: was assaulted and strangled to death.
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Speaker 2: Yes, she was assaulted. Yes, this little girl was strangled
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Speaker 2: to death with me an all star panel, including the
2:17
Speaker 2: elected district Attorney Da Brody Jr. And the detective who
2:24
Speaker 2: stuck by this case and never gave up A man
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Speaker 2: I consider now to be a friend Morris Nix. I
2:32
Speaker 2: remember when he first approached me about this case and
2:36
Speaker 2: beg begged to bring awareness to Debbie's case. He stuck
2:42
Speaker 2: with it from the get go, and he is here
2:45
Speaker 2: with us today. First, I want to go to Joseph
2:50
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, renowned professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University,
2:55
Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star
3:00
Speaker 2: of Body Bags. With Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, it's
3:03
Speaker 2: always thank you for being with us to state that
3:05
Speaker 2: this little girl nine years old. Now, Joe Scott, you
3:09
Speaker 2: remember when your baby was in the third grade? You remember,
3:14
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure do. What happened to Debbie Lynne Randalled.
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Speaker 4: Her assault is something that nightmares are made of. She
3:24
Speaker 4: was all by herself and was snatched. I think that
3:29
Speaker 4: it was, at least in these circumstances, it appears to
3:33
Speaker 4: be a crime of opportunity, and she was taken away
3:38
Speaker 4: and taken to an area where she could be assaulted
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Speaker 4: in private, essentially, and she wound up dying.
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Speaker 2: You know when you say assaulted, When you say assaulted,
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Speaker 2: that is a legal term for rape, a sodomy that
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Speaker 2: means vaginal or anal, forced penetration, forced intercourse, or oral
4:09
Speaker 2: vaginal anal oral. Those are sex assaults. Please, Joe Scott,
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Speaker 2: I understand you're coming from a place of professionalism, but
4:22
Speaker 2: we're not in court. I want the truth and I
4:25
Speaker 2: don't care how bad it is. What happened to Debbie Randall,
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Speaker 2: nine years old, third grade. What happened to her?
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Speaker 4: She was beaten and strangled to death, Nancy, and it
4:40
Speaker 4: on top of being sexually assaulted and left out in
4:47
Speaker 4: essentially an isolated area. Now, this is a young girl
4:51
Speaker 4: that had been part of a family and she was
4:54
Speaker 4: out there alone. And I think probably one of the
4:56
Speaker 4: most poignant comments about this along the way that I
5:00
Speaker 4: have seen is that the last vision that she had
5:05
Speaker 4: was probably staring into the eyes of her killer, who
5:07
Speaker 4: had been assaulting her all along and had just completely
5:10
Speaker 4: and totally brutalized with me.
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Speaker 2: In addition to the elected District Attorney Flynn D. Brody
5:16
Speaker 2: Junior in Cobb County, Morris Nix is with us former
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Speaker 2: detective with the Cobb County Cold Case Unit, Morris, Yes,
5:26
Speaker 2: could you explain the facts surrounding Debbie's disappearance and murder
5:33
Speaker 2: as well as this nine year old little girl's rate?
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Speaker 5: Nancy, First of all, I want to listen her to
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Speaker 5: understand to what he just raped, who had ripped openness.
5:44
Speaker 5: This was a vicious, sadist attack. This man was not
5:49
Speaker 5: just a pedophile, he was a sadist. And if you
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Speaker 5: ever saw the photograph, they would haunt you forever. Why
5:59
Speaker 5: because it was so brutal and I you know, you
6:05
Speaker 5: just hard to wrap your head around what she may
6:08
Speaker 5: have seen and felt before she died.
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Speaker 2: Do you remember the rag that was found of the scene.
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Speaker 6: I do.
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Speaker 2: Where was the rag?
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Speaker 5: The rag was placed in her vaginal area. And the
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Speaker 5: reason we believed that happened was she was abducted at
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Speaker 5: a lagomat. She was taken to another location and assaulted.
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Speaker 5: The Emmy's office said that had he not strangled her,
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Speaker 5: she would have bled to death. That's how bad it was.
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Speaker 2: Vaginal bleeding correct, from the rape.
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Speaker 5: Correct, and from ripping her opening. I think some kind
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Speaker 5: of foreign object was used.
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Speaker 2: Guys, I know that it is so hard to hear,
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Speaker 2: but this is what happened to this nine year old
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Speaker 2: little girl. I want to go to Flynn D. Brody, Junior,
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Speaker 2: the elected DA in Cobb County. You know if I
6:57
Speaker 2: may call you Flynn, Yeah, we are used to. I mean,
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Speaker 2: there's no telling how many cases you have tried and
7:04
Speaker 2: investigated before you became the District Attorney in Cobb. We
7:09
Speaker 2: are used to, Flynn. I remember the first time I
7:15
Speaker 2: had to say a curse word in front of a
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Speaker 2: jury in Fulton County. The words I had never said before.
7:22
Speaker 2: I don't mean damn or hell or the F word.
7:26
Speaker 2: I mean a lot worse than that. And I had
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Speaker 2: to actually say it out loud in my car on
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Speaker 2: the way to work that morning so I could say
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Speaker 2: it with a straight face. This two regular people, not
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Speaker 2: people like us who are in this business, who seek
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Speaker 2: justice every day. No matter how awful the facts are,
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Speaker 2: it's very, very difficult to enunciate, to tell people what
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Speaker 2: happened to Debbie Randall and I just want to thank
8:02
Speaker 2: you the elected district Attorney Marris Nicks, and the incredible
8:09
Speaker 2: scientists who have finally brought a resolution. Do you know
8:14
Speaker 2: how many nights I've gone to sleep and thought about
8:17
Speaker 2: Debbie Randall and thought about Mars Nicks still working the case.
8:23
Speaker 2: I mean, Flynn, could you explain what it takes to
8:29
Speaker 2: do a job like yours and stand in front of
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Speaker 2: a jury on a case this horrific or never get
8:35
Speaker 2: answers on a case this horrific?
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Speaker 7: Nancy, I think you said it. You know, many times
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Speaker 7: we see the facts, we see the pictures, and we
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Speaker 7: get so attached to our victims, we get attached to
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Speaker 7: wanting to find justice for him, to bring people to
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Speaker 7: be accountable for the things of their actions that they've taken.
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Speaker 7: You know, I applaud Detective Nicks for the work that
9:00
Speaker 7: he's done on this case. I said earlier that the
9:04
Speaker 7: emotion that he showed at the press conference showed that
9:07
Speaker 7: he was vested in this case, just as all prosecutors are.
9:11
Speaker 7: You know, as a prosecutor, you don't do this for
9:14
Speaker 7: the money. You don't do this for fame or any
9:16
Speaker 7: accolade or anything. You do it for the victims. You
9:19
Speaker 7: do it for the individuals who have no voice. You
9:23
Speaker 7: have to speak for them so you can bring justice
9:27
Speaker 7: for them, for those families, and in this case, fifty
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Speaker 7: one years for the Randall family. Fifty one years it
9:34
Speaker 7: took for us to solve this case. But in the
9:37
Speaker 7: end it was solved, some closure was brought, and mister Randall,
9:42
Speaker 7: Melvin was so forgiving of mister of the Rose family.
9:49
Speaker 7: I just really my heart goes out to him for
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Speaker 7: all the things that this family must have gone through,
9:55
Speaker 7: and for many of us. You know, we have children
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Speaker 7: of our own, and every time we see a victim,
10:02
Speaker 7: we see our own kid.
10:03
Speaker 2: Can I tell you what happened just this past week, Flynn. Guys,
10:07
Speaker 2: you're hearing not only Joe Scott Morgan, but Morris Nicks,
10:11
Speaker 2: the former detective who stayed on this case until the
10:16
Speaker 2: bitter end, and Flynn Brody, I'm shortly gonna be joined
10:20
Speaker 2: by Debbie's brother, Melvin Randall. Flynn Morris just this past week,
10:27
Speaker 2: and my son, who is fifteen is now six ' five.
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Speaker 2: All right, I was watching my daughter, she's a football
10:37
Speaker 2: manager for the JB JV football team, and I was
10:41
Speaker 2: just watching her. It was pouring rain. It was starting
10:45
Speaker 2: to get dark. We were at an away game and
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Speaker 2: I was sitting there and seeing that the game finally ended,
10:51
Speaker 2: and I let my son run off with his little friend. Okay,
10:55
Speaker 2: I couldn't find him, Flynn. I called him and called him,
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Speaker 2: and he's usually got his phone glued to his ear.
11:01
Speaker 2: No answer, no answer, no answer. I finally did lie
11:04
Speaker 2: three sixty Flynn. His phone was in a field behind.
11:11
Speaker 2: I think it was a quality end out on a strip.
11:18
Speaker 2: I all I could think about where cases, just like
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Speaker 2: Debbie Randall, where at first appearance, they're like, oh they'll
11:25
Speaker 2: be back, they've wandered off. They're here, they're there, there,
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Speaker 2: they're with their friends. And the more I called, and
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Speaker 2: the more I called and couldn't get him, I could
11:33
Speaker 2: just feel it rising up in my chest. Well, the
11:36
Speaker 2: end of the story, guess where he was, Flynn. Guess
11:40
Speaker 2: what was behind that quality end the soccer field. The
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Speaker 2: soccer field was in a different place in the school,
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Speaker 2: and they had walked I guess a quarter or a
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Speaker 2: third of a mile to get to the soccer field
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Speaker 2: in the rain to go kick a ball. I mean,
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Speaker 2: what these adherents have lived through is hell, pure hell, guys,
12:05
Speaker 2: take a listen to our cuts. Twenty six and twenty seven.
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Speaker 3: The field of forensic technology continued to improve, and in
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Speaker 3: May of twenty fifteen, a piece of cloth recovered from
12:16
Speaker 3: the victim was sent to Syringing Forensics for an updated
12:19
Speaker 3: DNA analysis. It resulted in a partial profile attributed to
12:24
Speaker 3: an unknown male. Using public records and police resources, the
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Speaker 3: sentence of the suspect were identified. The family assisted in
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Speaker 3: the investigation and sample DNA was provided for comparison DNA
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Speaker 3: evidence left on the victim and the familiar DNA was
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Speaker 3: a match. We exhumed the suspect's body for DNA testing
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Speaker 3: to rule out any doubts.
12:59
Speaker 1: Time story with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Joining me right now a special guest, Melvin Randall. This
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Speaker 2: is Debbie's brother, mister Randall. Thank you so much for
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Speaker 2: being with us. You when you look back when all
13:22
Speaker 2: the years that you have lived without Debbie, what memory
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Speaker 2: is the most vivid.
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Speaker 6: The pain of just you know, not knowing what's going on,
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Speaker 6: to seeing my mother wanting to find out what happened,
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Speaker 6: you know, having to deal with that was tough for
13:52
Speaker 6: a long time. It's just just not knowing what happened.
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Speaker 2: When you say the toughest part for you was watching
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Speaker 2: your mother wanting, waiting, yearning, praying for justice. What do
14:12
Speaker 2: you mean, what did you see your mother do?
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Speaker 6: Well, she just suffered a lot, she had leukemia, but
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Speaker 6: her wish was, you know, that they would find before
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Speaker 6: she passed away, that they'd find out. And it were
14:29
Speaker 6: just tough to see how much it did hurt her,
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Speaker 6: how much she really wanted it. And I'm just glad
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Speaker 6: that they finally did, But I still wish my mother
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Speaker 6: would have been around to to see it.
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Speaker 2: Melvin, how old were you when Debbie was murdered?
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Speaker 6: I was ten years old.
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Speaker 2: Do you remember when it happened? Can you still remember it?
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Speaker 6: Yes, ma'am, very vividly.
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Speaker 2: What do you recall?
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Speaker 6: I was ten, I was sick. They wouldn't let me
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Speaker 6: go outside. I remember standing at the door looking outside,
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Speaker 6: and uh, you know, I blame myself for a long time.
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Speaker 2: But you blamed yourself? Why?
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Speaker 6: Well, because I was her older brother. We always played
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Speaker 6: together and always was around each other. And then that
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Speaker 6: one day I was sick and I wasn't allowed to
15:25
Speaker 6: go outside. So I blame myself for a while, but
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Speaker 6: then I realized it was nothing I could do.
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Speaker 2: You know, just hearing what you're saying. Uh, Doctor Angela
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Speaker 2: Arnold is with me, a truly renowned psychiatrist that I
15:42
Speaker 2: consider a friend. Doctor Angie. I know that brother Melvin says,
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Speaker 2: I blame myself, But then I realized there was nothing
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Speaker 2: else I could do. Even when I look back now
15:56
Speaker 2: on my fiance's murder, I think, well, if what if
15:59
Speaker 2: I had said, don't go to work today, just stay
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Speaker 2: one more day with me and make it just stay
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Speaker 2: here at my parents' house. What if I did this?
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Speaker 2: What if I did that? I mean, it never goes away,
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Speaker 2: doctor Angie.
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Speaker 8: No, And you know, Nancy, the last thing anybody ever
16:14
Speaker 8: wants to do is blame the victim, okay, And so
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Speaker 8: the only other thing we can do is blame ourselves,
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Speaker 8: because it's such a feeling of a lack of control
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Speaker 8: that if we think that we could have done something
16:31
Speaker 8: to prevent this pain us act to the victim, that's
16:38
Speaker 8: our attempt at finding some sort of control in this
16:43
Speaker 8: of which there's absolutely no control. Because this was just
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Speaker 8: a horrible act that happened to this little girl when
16:53
Speaker 8: she was out alone. She could have been walking out
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Speaker 8: alone any number of times, and nothing could have happened
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Speaker 8: to her right on this particular day. This is what happened,
17:02
Speaker 8: and none of us have any control over that, and
17:05
Speaker 8: it's none of our fault.
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Speaker 2: You're so right, Doctor Angie, joining me now, Jessica Nole,
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Speaker 2: investigative journalist, co host producer of The Investigators podcast. Jessica,
17:15
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. And I don't want
17:18
Speaker 2: any victim blaming her mom, Debbie Lynn's mom. Both parents
17:26
Speaker 2: died before they ever knew who took little Debbie, but
17:32
Speaker 2: I don't want them blame. I mean, she was basically
17:36
Speaker 2: across the street right when she was inducted from the laundromat.
17:41
Speaker 9: Yeah, she was across the street at the laundrymat. She
17:45
Speaker 9: had been with her stepfather and they put the load
17:48
Speaker 9: in and he gave her some change to finish up
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Speaker 9: the laundry. He headed across the street, literally yards across
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Speaker 9: the street, back to their apartment, and she stuck around
17:59
Speaker 9: for a little bit with the soapboxes, played with her dolls,
18:03
Speaker 9: and then you know, just a few minutes later, she
18:06
Speaker 9: walked out the door and that was you know, she
18:09
Speaker 9: was taken.
18:11
Speaker 2: Melvin Randall, I think I heard you jumping in What
18:13
Speaker 2: were you saying?
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Speaker 6: I was just saying that it was not very far
18:16
Speaker 6: at all. We could see the laundry let from the door.
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Speaker 2: And Marris nicked with me, the detective who stayed on
18:22
Speaker 2: the case from the beginning till now. Marris didn't she didn't.
18:28
Speaker 2: Debbie like to go collect all the soap that was
18:30
Speaker 2: left behind that people had bought but then they didn't
18:34
Speaker 2: need it, and she would gather all together and her
18:38
Speaker 2: family would use the leftover soap.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, that was what Debbie liked to do, and I think,
18:44
Speaker 5: looking back on it, I think that was her way
18:46
Speaker 5: of helping her family, and it gave her time to
18:49
Speaker 5: kind of linger around a little bit longer.
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Speaker 2: And the friends had the dolls. I mean, I'm looking
18:54
Speaker 2: at her right now. I'm looking particularly at the picture
18:57
Speaker 2: of her. She still has her baby teeth and some
19:00
Speaker 2: of her baby teeth. She looks like she's just gotten
19:03
Speaker 2: her adult front two teeth, and her little nose covered
19:07
Speaker 2: in freckles, and that gold, that yellow ribbon on her
19:11
Speaker 2: hair looks like a school picture. She just looks like
19:15
Speaker 2: the all American little girl nine years old just got Morgan.
19:21
Speaker 2: When Morris Nick says she was cut open what does
19:25
Speaker 2: he mean by that?
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Speaker 4: The belief is is that there was an instrument of
19:30
Speaker 4: some type that was inserted within her. And you know,
19:36
Speaker 4: we can go on and on about this, but it
19:38
Speaker 4: seems to me that this is the act of somebody that,
19:41
Speaker 4: when it comes down to it, is a sadist, somebody
19:44
Speaker 4: that enjoyed inflicting pain on somebody that was obviously much
19:50
Speaker 4: smaller and weaker than them.
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Speaker 2: And probably trapped in a vehicle. She was raped with
19:55
Speaker 2: a foreign.
19:56
Speaker 4: Object, trapped and then taken to an isolated area. The
20:00
Speaker 4: thing about it is with cases like these, individuals that
20:03
Speaker 4: have this predatory mindset have already got a they've got
20:07
Speaker 4: a type of person that they're looking for, and then
20:11
Speaker 4: they have a fantasy in their mind about where they're
20:14
Speaker 4: going to go and where they're going to do it.
20:15
Speaker 4: Because something like this would have required a certain amount
20:20
Speaker 4: of isolation. Because this is Nancy, I can't even begin
20:25
Speaker 4: to describe to you in any terms how painful this
20:29
Speaker 4: would have been and how horrific it would have been
20:31
Speaker 4: what this port li Lo Angel was subjected to at
20:34
Speaker 4: that point in don.
20:35
Speaker 2: Guys take a listen to our cut twenty eight. I
20:38
Speaker 2: think you will recognize the voice.
20:40
Speaker 3: Debuln's parents die without knowing who killed their little girl.
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Speaker 3: Her mother one Neda, died of leukemia in twenty eighteen,
20:48
Speaker 3: and her father John passed away in January of last year.
20:52
Speaker 3: The answer we are providing today will not bring her back,
20:56
Speaker 3: and we can't extract justice from the perpetrator. But I know, oh,
21:00
Speaker 3: he must answer to a higher power, and I hope
21:03
Speaker 3: it will provide some relief and answer the question that
21:07
Speaker 3: is lingered for more than fifty years. We have confirmed
21:11
Speaker 3: that William B. Rose of Mapleton was responsible for the
21:15
Speaker 3: death of Debbie Lynn Randall.
21:16
Speaker 2: William B. Rose of Mapleton, then twenty four years old,
21:21
Speaker 2: responsible for the death of Debbie Lynn Randall to Morris Nicks,
21:28
Speaker 2: who is this guy? Who is William B. Rose?
21:32
Speaker 8: You know?
21:33
Speaker 5: Now's the amazing thing about it. With the hundreds of
21:35
Speaker 5: people literally that we looked at and the people we
21:38
Speaker 5: tried to eliminate, he was never on our radar. There
21:42
Speaker 5: was nothing that led us to him. There's no past behavior.
21:47
Speaker 5: And I'm looking at this now and I'm thinking about
21:49
Speaker 5: what is it about people such as BTK Dennis Raider
21:53
Speaker 5: who have a great parents, good you know, siblings, But
21:58
Speaker 5: there's this monster that just deep within them. And I
22:02
Speaker 5: thought about this constantly. I wondered why her coat was
22:07
Speaker 5: put back on her and zipped up to her chin.
22:12
Speaker 5: We didn't know William Rose, and that's a great question.
22:17
Speaker 5: And who was William Rose? We still need to find
22:20
Speaker 5: that out.
22:21
Speaker 2: Take a Lit's snower cut thirty two. This is Ron
22:24
Speaker 2: Alder speaking.
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Speaker 10: They didn't know each other as best I can tell. Obviously,
22:27
Speaker 10: he was twenty four members and she was nine. He
22:29
Speaker 10: had family members that lived in the complex, so he
22:32
Speaker 10: was probably in the complex quite a bit. In talking
22:36
Speaker 10: with mister Randall. As children, they played outside a lot.
22:39
Speaker 10: There was a playground right near the laundromat where w
22:43
Speaker 10: was last scene, so they were outside a lot. If
22:44
Speaker 10: you drove by, I'm sure he saw her, and I
22:47
Speaker 10: believe that as a crime of opportunity. He saw her
22:49
Speaker 10: by herself and he talked her.
22:51
Speaker 2: Joining me right now. The elected district attorney, who also
22:54
Speaker 2: along with the Morris Nick saw this case through. If
22:57
Speaker 2: it weren't for the elected DA saying yes, go go
23:01
Speaker 2: use the money, spend the money, get the DNA analysis,
23:04
Speaker 2: this would not have happened. Just know that, and know
23:08
Speaker 2: that this elected district attorney is faced with thousands, thousands
23:12
Speaker 2: of cases every day. All the families want answers, all
23:18
Speaker 2: the families want justice. But we would not be here
23:22
Speaker 2: today without the unfaltering dedication of Morris Knicks and this
23:27
Speaker 2: elected district attorney. I hope you're listening Cobb County, mister Brodie.
23:33
Speaker 2: How hard is it to solve a case when the
23:37
Speaker 2: killer or the rapist is random. It's like a needle
23:41
Speaker 2: in a haystack.
23:43
Speaker 7: It is definitely a needle in a haystack. And that's
23:46
Speaker 7: why I detectives like Morris Knicks are so important for
23:49
Speaker 7: the criminal justice system. They have that dedication to do
23:53
Speaker 7: the work that is going to take to solve these cases.
23:57
Speaker 7: And we have to do everything we can to support
23:59
Speaker 7: them because it is hard work. And Detective Nicks will
24:04
Speaker 7: tell you they get attached to their victims. They want
24:07
Speaker 7: to find that justice. They want to do the work
24:09
Speaker 7: to make sure we bring an answer to these families
24:11
Speaker 7: because they deserve one.
24:12
Speaker 2: You know, another thing I like about you, Flynn D.
24:15
Speaker 2: Brody Jr. Is that you are big enough to share
24:23
Speaker 2: the praise. Guys, I want you to listen to Brody
24:26
Speaker 2: speaking in our twenty.
24:28
Speaker 3: Nine Many thanks to investigator Ron Alter and retired CCPD
24:34
Speaker 3: detective Morris Nicks, their persistence and commitment to seeking justice
24:39
Speaker 3: for Debbie Lynn's family was vital in bringing this case
24:42
Speaker 3: to a close.
24:43
Speaker 2: See, mister Brody, that's another thing about you that a
24:47
Speaker 2: lot of people may not know. Like every day, I'm
24:51
Speaker 2: sitting here in this chair, but it's not me. I'm
24:54
Speaker 2: just a mouthpiece. Jackie's working, Sidney is working, Kelly is working,
24:59
Speaker 2: Dave is working, John is working, Eelie's work. Everybody's working
25:03
Speaker 2: together to present a criminal case, to spotlight a criminal case,
25:10
Speaker 2: to look for answers, to push justice Ford one inch.
25:14
Speaker 2: It's not me, it's them lifting me up. And for
25:20
Speaker 2: you to call out to other people that have stuck
25:23
Speaker 2: by this case is amazing because you know how many
25:26
Speaker 2: people wouldn't do that. A lot a lot of people
25:30
Speaker 2: wouldn't do that, Flynn, Nancy.
25:34
Speaker 7: The key is I may be the mouthpiece, but I'm
25:37
Speaker 7: definitely not the one doing the work. And my total
25:41
Speaker 7: job is to get them the resources that they need
25:44
Speaker 7: to bring justice to this community, to make sure that
25:47
Speaker 7: we're doing the things that we need to do so
25:50
Speaker 7: our victims have a voice.
25:51
Speaker 2: Joining me right now to kind of explain what has
25:56
Speaker 2: really happened. Here? Is Toby Woolson or is it consultant
26:01
Speaker 2: specializing in DNA erology bloodstain pattern analysis at no Slow
26:08
Speaker 2: Forensics dot com. Toby, thank you, Toby is joining us
26:14
Speaker 2: out of Miami. Thank you for taking time. Okay, what happened?
26:18
Speaker 2: A It costs money. Now, the DA made sure that
26:22
Speaker 2: some of the funds. And trust me, he said earlier,
26:25
Speaker 2: you're not in this business for the money. I remember
26:28
Speaker 2: working two night jobs while I was a DA. But
26:32
Speaker 2: that said, you allocate the money to get the test.
26:35
Speaker 2: But you've got a rag taken from Debbie's vaginal area,
26:41
Speaker 2: from her vagina there, that's where I was, a rag
26:45
Speaker 2: stuffed in her vagina to stop all the incredible bleeding,
26:50
Speaker 2: the profuse bleeding. So how did that rag equal finding
26:57
Speaker 2: the killer? How did that happen? William B. Rose raw
27:01
Speaker 2: and Hail Rose? But how did it happen? Toby?
27:05
Speaker 11: Well, good morning, Nancy. This is a good illustration of
27:09
Speaker 11: how much improvement DNA technology has done in the thirty
27:14
Speaker 11: years we've been using it, where we went from needing
27:16
Speaker 11: large samples and getting very little information to now using
27:20
Speaker 11: imperceptible samples. We have technologies now that are extremely sensitive
27:26
Speaker 11: that require very small amounts of DNA in order to
27:31
Speaker 11: get profiles. Now the RAG, I know the DNA Labs
27:35
Speaker 11: International did the work on the RAG reading the news articles.
27:40
Speaker 11: They use a piece of equipment I forget its name
27:43
Speaker 11: off hand, but it's actually a vacuum and concentrator for
27:49
Speaker 11: items in which they failed to get DNA or the
27:51
Speaker 11: DNA we obtained from it was so small they couldn't
27:55
Speaker 11: analyze it. So this piece of equipment that a lot
27:59
Speaker 11: of laboratories using now that allows them to vacuum up
28:03
Speaker 11: samples from these from these rags and from this degree
28:06
Speaker 11: and then concentrate it and do analysis is you know,
28:10
Speaker 11: just another example of how much things have changed. You know,
28:12
Speaker 11: we went from taking something, doing a normal traditional extraction
28:18
Speaker 11: on it and saying there's insufficient DNA to now hyper
28:23
Speaker 11: pulling away the DNA on the on that item, concentrating
28:28
Speaker 11: it and saying, oh, now I've got a sufficient sample
28:30
Speaker 11: in order to do the DNA analysis. So all of
28:33
Speaker 11: this is an example of how how far we've come
28:37
Speaker 11: in such a short period of time with the ability
28:39
Speaker 11: to take genetic material and use it to identify perpetrators
28:46
Speaker 11: and victims and lost souls, you name it. Where you know,
28:50
Speaker 11: they're now capable of doing it, and it's only going
28:54
Speaker 11: to go much further. The next step is genetic sequencing.
28:59
Speaker 11: Some laboratory are starting to look at it now, and
29:01
Speaker 11: genetic sequencing when the traditional DNA analysis fails to give
29:06
Speaker 11: you an answer, maybe the next step in fixing those samples.
29:12
Speaker 11: The other advantage of genetic sequencing is that apparently it
29:17
Speaker 11: will give the ability to tell the difference between twins
29:19
Speaker 11: identical twins. Now when you do them traditional DNA wise
29:23
Speaker 11: have the same profiles, but apparently their genetic sequences.
29:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't like twins in our business. I actually,
29:32
Speaker 2: and I've got twins because I actually, I'm one of
29:36
Speaker 2: those prosecutors, those rare prosecutors that actually had a murder
29:41
Speaker 2: and agasaw. One guy was murdered, one guy was left
29:43
Speaker 2: in a wheelchair forever over a handful of dot ropes
29:47
Speaker 2: gold chains, and the perp had an identical twin. You
29:52
Speaker 2: know those stories that start with I never thought it
29:54
Speaker 2: would happen to me, It happened to me, okay, but
29:58
Speaker 2: got the conviction that said he's talking about an m
30:02
Speaker 2: Emazon mother VAT, which is a sterile wet vac wet
30:08
Speaker 2: vacuum and a so called collection solution is sprayed onto
30:15
Speaker 2: the surface the mvact. It looks like a handback. A
30:19
Speaker 2: minivac is then put over the surface and it creates
30:24
Speaker 2: a kind of a mini hurricane effect and it loosens
30:28
Speaker 2: the DNA and sucks it up if there is any
30:31
Speaker 2: to be loosened. And in this case, I'm just guessing,
30:33
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan that you had her blood and his
30:37
Speaker 2: epiphilial or skin cells, possibly his sperm, but likely his
30:43
Speaker 2: epifilial cells.
30:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, you would have. And this is what we refer
30:46
Speaker 4: to as commingling of evidence. And when you can fine
30:50
Speaker 4: tune the technology now so that you can separate it
30:54
Speaker 4: out at this very minute level, it's quite amazing to see.
31:00
Speaker 4: There's also a big part, and I think that maybe
31:04
Speaker 4: Morse can address this, but there was also a big
31:07
Speaker 4: part of this was a straight hair that was also found, which,
31:12
Speaker 4: of course, you know, we can either if you have
31:14
Speaker 4: the root ball, we can do you know, nuclear DNA
31:18
Speaker 4: testing on it or mitochondrial DNA testing on it.
31:22
Speaker 2: Exactly without the nucleus the root of the hair, you
31:25
Speaker 2: can still conduct to mitochondrial DNA analysis. Guys, take us
31:29
Speaker 2: an our cut thirty five.
31:30
Speaker 10: A family member, a distant family member contributed DNA, actually
31:34
Speaker 10: multiple contributed DNA to family treating DNA or a dead
31:38
Speaker 10: match pro which are the two open source sites for
31:41
Speaker 10: ancestry that law enforcement has access to. And genealogists with
31:46
Speaker 10: DNA Labs International were able to work through that till
31:49
Speaker 10: they got a narrower list of suspects and from there
31:53
Speaker 10: we inviewed people and worked our way to mister.
31:56
Speaker 1: Roscow Time Stories with Nancy Grease.
32:16
Speaker 2: Let's break down how that happens. Jessica Nole with me,
32:19
Speaker 2: investigative journalist, producer of the investigators. So if you get
32:25
Speaker 2: the DNA from the m fact that Joe Scott Morgan's
32:28
Speaker 2: talking about and Toby Wilson is talking about, you get
32:31
Speaker 2: some DNA, but you gotta have somebody to match it to.
32:34
Speaker 2: I mean how many times Flynn Brody Junior, the elected
32:37
Speaker 2: DA do you hear? Well, did you get a fingerprint? Yeah,
32:40
Speaker 2: we got a fingerprint off the window sill, but you
32:43
Speaker 2: have to match it to somebody or you don't know
32:44
Speaker 2: whose it is. Same thing with DNA, right, jury's expected
32:47
Speaker 2: on every case. Oh boy, do they ever? So you
32:51
Speaker 2: get DNA from this elaborate and new technique of the
32:55
Speaker 2: m as a mother m VAC. But whose is it? Well,
33:00
Speaker 2: place you look mars Nicks. But first place I look
33:03
Speaker 2: is at the jail. You right through the GCIC Georgia,
33:07
Speaker 2: NCIC National and see has any other defendant in the
33:12
Speaker 2: country Do any of them have the same DNA? That's
33:16
Speaker 2: where you start, right.
33:17
Speaker 5: That's where we start. And we could not figure out
33:20
Speaker 5: why we were not getting a CODIS hit on this individual,
33:23
Speaker 5: thinking that whoever did this certainly would do it again.
33:27
Speaker 5: And I even at one point it started looking at
33:29
Speaker 5: people who had already been executed for similar offenses. We
33:34
Speaker 5: got nothing who was totally.
33:36
Speaker 2: Not on the way of you know, you are amazing.
33:38
Speaker 2: I didn't realize you even went back to people that
33:41
Speaker 2: have been executed or dead to find a match. Nothing
33:47
Speaker 2: in GCIC or NCIC, which all goes to CODIS. That
33:52
Speaker 2: means in some cases, when you are arrested for let's
33:57
Speaker 2: just say a raper and murder, your d found the scene,
34:01
Speaker 2: that DNA goes into the code's database. You run people's
34:06
Speaker 2: rap sheets, you try to find people with similar cases
34:10
Speaker 2: in the past, and believe me. Isn't it true, Doctor
34:12
Speaker 2: Angie Arnold? It's very hard to believe this guy went
34:15
Speaker 2: from zero to one hundred and twenty mph in one moment,
34:19
Speaker 2: that he didn't have anything before this, But he didn't.
34:23
Speaker 8: Well, are we sure about that?
34:25
Speaker 2: No, we're not sure. I am sure. He wasn't prosecuted anything.
34:29
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean exact.
34:30
Speaker 8: That doesn't mean that he wasn't killing somebody's animals in
34:33
Speaker 8: the backyard. Doesn't know it, doesn't Like you said, Nancy,
34:37
Speaker 8: Like you said, there is no way that somebody's just
34:40
Speaker 8: walking down the street and all of a sudden some
34:43
Speaker 8: impulse hits them to do such a heinous act to
34:47
Speaker 8: another human being because they need more.
34:51
Speaker 2: But what finally happened here, they.
34:53
Speaker 8: Don't have more and more to get the same gratification
34:57
Speaker 8: out of their acts, and they have practiced other things
35:02
Speaker 8: before they do something like this.
35:05
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yes, yes, like torturing animals. Absolutely so to you.
35:10
Speaker 2: Morris Nicks, former detective in Cobb County cold case unit.
35:15
Speaker 2: So you get the DNA off the MBAC and then
35:18
Speaker 2: the current District Attorney's office had geneticist then compare it
35:24
Speaker 2: to open public family trees like Jedged match and others,
35:32
Speaker 2: thefamilytree dot com those and Bam you get a match.
35:37
Speaker 2: Were you surprised Morris Knicks that the purp is without
35:42
Speaker 2: a doubt? Then twenty four year old William B.
35:45
Speaker 5: Rose, I can't even describe it an When ron Oldtter
35:48
Speaker 5: called me, he'd called me once before until we've got
35:51
Speaker 5: it down to two states. He called me back again
35:54
Speaker 5: and said we have found his daughter. I did not
35:57
Speaker 5: sleep for seventy two hours. Then they assumed the body.
36:02
Speaker 5: He called me back and said, that's it, it's done.
36:06
Speaker 2: You exhumed the perhaps body.
36:08
Speaker 5: They did.
36:09
Speaker 2: Yes, I am so amazed. Flynn Brody Jr. Could you
36:14
Speaker 2: tell everybody how difficult that it is to get an
36:16
Speaker 2: exhamation order. It's not easy, No.
36:19
Speaker 7: It's definitely not easy, not even easy, but you know,
36:24
Speaker 7: it's kind of expensive. But we wanted to make sure
36:27
Speaker 7: that we had the right person. We wanted to bring
36:30
Speaker 7: true closure, to make sure that this was a complete
36:33
Speaker 7: DNA match, and that was the only way we could
36:36
Speaker 7: do it.
36:36
Speaker 2: Joining me is Debbie's sister, Melvin Randall, who has gone
36:42
Speaker 2: He was ten. Debbie was nine when she was kidnapped
36:47
Speaker 2: and murdered. Melvin Randall, How did you find out her
36:52
Speaker 2: killer had been found?
36:54
Speaker 6: Mister Nicks notified me a while back, letting we know
37:00
Speaker 6: that the possibility was great that they had found him,
37:04
Speaker 6: and said that there was a little more testing to
37:08
Speaker 6: do to make sure absolutely sure before they announced it.
37:13
Speaker 6: And that's how I found out was mister Mister Nickson
37:16
Speaker 6: has been great help to my family in many ways,
37:22
Speaker 6: and I would like to thank him again, but mister
37:26
Speaker 6: Nixon is the one they let me know for sure
37:31
Speaker 6: at the District Attorney's office. Both were calling me and
37:36
Speaker 6: letting me know the information.
37:38
Speaker 2: Melvin, what are your feelings and your thoughts on the
37:43
Speaker 2: fact that this rapist as child rapist is killer. William B.
37:48
Speaker 2: Rose committed suicide two years after he murdered Debbie Well.
37:55
Speaker 6: I think that I think that he probably his conscience
37:59
Speaker 6: might have got to him, is what I'm thinking. I mean,
38:03
Speaker 6: I'm not I wasn't there. I don't know, but that's
38:07
Speaker 6: what I feel. I feel that maybe his conscious did
38:10
Speaker 6: get to it, and that's why I committed suicide.
38:15
Speaker 2: How do you feel emotionally, not logically, but how do
38:19
Speaker 2: you feel about the fact that he's dead? He will
38:24
Speaker 2: never have to face you or any of Debbie's family
38:28
Speaker 2: in a court of law.
38:29
Speaker 6: I don't think I would like to have faced him
38:31
Speaker 6: in the first place, because I don't know what I
38:33
Speaker 6: would have done. I probably would have been all these
38:37
Speaker 6: people that would have done something stupid. So I'm sort
38:41
Speaker 6: of grateful that you know that it this way, because
38:45
Speaker 6: it makes it a little easier.
38:47
Speaker 2: Melvin. Can I tell you something, ma'am, from somebody that knows.
38:52
Speaker 2: Every day, I wonder, did I do the wrong thing
38:57
Speaker 2: by not just shooting case killer there in the courtroom.
39:02
Speaker 2: Should I have done that? Of course if I had,
39:05
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have John, David and Lucy. I wouldn't have David.
39:11
Speaker 2: So I guess the Lord protected me.
39:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, because that's what I thought for a lot of years.
39:16
Speaker 6: I wish they would find out and I would go retaliate.
39:19
Speaker 6: But that's not what we should do. What we should
39:21
Speaker 6: do is just no.
39:22
Speaker 2: It's not you know what we should do. We should
39:26
Speaker 2: do what Flynde Brody Jr. And Morris Knicks do every
39:31
Speaker 2: day of their lives. And they are fine examples for
39:34
Speaker 2: me to follow. They don't quit, they keep going, They
39:40
Speaker 2: work within the law, and they seek justice. And I
39:45
Speaker 2: am happy to say Congratulations District Attorney Brody, and congratulations
39:51
Speaker 2: Mars Nicks. And God bless you Melvin Randall. And may
39:56
Speaker 2: your parents and Debbie's parents rest in peace with her now.
40:02
Speaker 2: Good Bye friends,