Latest / The Standard / Pulling Back the Curtain on College Sports Finances | Ep. 31 Dr. Greg Chick

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Pulling Back the Curtain on College Sports Finances | Ep. 31 Dr. Greg Chick · The Standard

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh is that your actual background there?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, I was just thinking I should can I put a blur on this thing?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, don't leave it.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think it looks great.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh this is a good little outdate, Aaron.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yahtzee, here we go.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Standard Podcast, where we raise the bar, rebuild the culture, and call out the lies or misconceptions that nobody else will.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't motivation, this is a movement.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: And today I'm Thomas Rowe sitting down with my co-host Aaron Charles, and we're sitting down with Dr.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Greg Chick, a data analyst who earned his PhD in higher education from the University of Massachusetts, Boston.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Greg's dissertation used cutting-edge quantitative methodology to estimate the impact of NCAA policy on institutions and student loan debt.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: But what makes Greg unique is that he's taken his academic research and made it accessible to everyone through his free weekly newsletter, NIL Nomics, where he analyzes college sports finances through deep research and straightforward visualization.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Greg is pulling back the curtain on college athletics finances, NIL economics, and the policies that shape student athletes' financial futures.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to understand money behind college sports and how it impacts athletes, families, and institutions, Greg is the person breaking it down with data and not hype.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're diving into the truth behind what it really takes to build identity, discipline, and legacy in sports and in life.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get into it.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Greg, thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: We really appreciate it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, let's start here.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: You earned your PhD study in the impact of NCA policy on student loan debt, and now you've published NIL Nomics, a free newsletter breaking down college sport finances.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you get into a little bit about that newsletter and also what does raising the standard mean to you and the work you're doing?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the newsletter is my attempt to continue my studies.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you spend 10 years on a dissertation.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to just let it go when you graduate.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I've tried to continue my rigorous data analytic, you know, research into the finances of college athletics.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought by publishing a weekly newsletter, I could reach a broad audience and connect with people that are interested in the finances and the economics of college athletics.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really the broad goal of the newsletter.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as raising the standard, you know, I just think that there's a gold rush in college athletics now that student athletes are able to monetize their name, image, and likeness.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And though it's it's long overdue for student athletes to be able to do that, to earn payments and money for their name their NIL, I do think that there's good actors and bad actors that enter the space.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: For every opportunity that goes well, there's going to be some that end poorly.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we need more people in this space that have the right values, the right ideas, and the student athlete's interests at heart.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: And what would you say is the biggest lie you feel the culture of college sports industry sold athletes, families, and fans about money, NIL, and how college athletics really work financially?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think people get trapped by the headlines and they see certain student athletes in the college space make millions of dollars in endorsements and commercials and everything else.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Again, is long overdue, but I think student athletes and and their parents misunderstand exactly what the marketplace looks like.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, OpenDorse has released a lot of data and released a lot of reports that show what the median NIL deal is worth, and it's it's under a thousand dollars.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think people are misconstruing that just because some student athletes at the very, very top, top of 1% are making millions of dollars in revenues, that they're they're swimmer or their tracking field player, their soccer player, or even you know, another D1 player, maybe on a lower tier team, is gonna make millions and millions of dollars.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think some student athletes and parents are are missing the point that you know the the the likelihood of anyone making that type of money or making into the professional leagues is is infinitimally small.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so the focus should always be one on on getting yourself to that level of of being a a D1 scholarship athlete, and then getting an education and making connections and setting yourself up for the future after your college athletics career because again, it's just not likely that most players are going to make it to that professional level.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: No doubt.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a big misconception.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think people just focus on the now and don't think about tomorrow or what's in store for them.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Your dissertation used cutting-edge quantitative methodology to study NCAA policy.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: What did your research reveal about what most people don't know about the financial reality of college athletics?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, my dissertation looked at how the change in cost of attendance stipend policy impacted student loan debt.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, just to rewind, just 10 years ago, 10, 11 years ago now, the idea of offering a$2,000 payment to student athletes was very controversial.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's funny to think about just a few thousand dollars would cause a seismic change and require such such politicking and and discussion.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: But um, in 2015, it was it was a big deal that that's the Power Five conferences.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's another funny part is I'm talking Power Five back then when we know it's Power Four now.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the idea back then was to offer a two or three thousand dollar scholarship that players could could get paid in and spend however they want.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that that was going to be the end of the world.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, first, you know, there was a concern that that would impact other students on campus because basically the financial device to to do that for student athletes would is also used with other students on campus.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that concern is unwarranted based on my research.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, the group of five institutions did not go overboard.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was no impact on student loan debt that was forecasted when this policy happened.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so the net effect is even though I didn't find a statistically significant impact based on that policy, which as a quantitative researcher, you always want to find that statistically significant result.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I like to reframe my my research as kind of one of the very few times we've been able to empirically test the warnings and the concern that the NCAA and those who I would say are against student athlete employment or payments or compensation.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to empirically test their concerns.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was basically putting their concerns to the test and I found nothing.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, one, it goes to show just 10 years ago that the push to pay student athletes was was justified, was had no downstream effects.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then it makes you think here we are in 2026, the same people are pushing to not empower student athletes to earn revenue, to earn money off their name, image, and likeness, not be able to gain all the rights and privileges that other athletes in other spaces have.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the large overview of what my research was.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Got it.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's intense and that's pretty specific.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right now we're gonna turn it over to Aaron for segment two, identity and legacy.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron, go ahead and take it away.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so it looks like uh we're having problems with Aaron's audio.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay, Aaron.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Or Greg, I'm gonna take it from here.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: You're a PhD, a data analyst, and the founder of NIL Nomics.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: But beyond the credentials, who is Greg Chick and how do you define character, integrity, and discipline?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for the question, Tom.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I am a father.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I have three young children and a four-legged friend that I uh take care of alongside my wife.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, my children are just starting to get into athletics.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: My six-year-old plays soccer, plays basketball, and it's way too early to tell if that's going to become a passion, if that's gonna be something that she thinks and hopes and aspires to be a way to get into college, into, you know, the into the maybe still dream of being a pro athlete.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, even at this young age, you can see that sometimes there's just this, there's a lot of pressure on on the athletes, on parents to make the most of it because there's a little bit of FOMO, a little bit of not anxiety around doing it the wrong way or making sure they get the most out of out of this opportunity.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, no one wants to spend the time and and quite frankly the money at this point in something that isn't going to give the best results.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it just seems a way that people can be taken advantage of.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: You see all the headlines about private equity entering the youth sports space.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Again, there's there's now name, image, and likeness rights being granted to high school athletes.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So the pressure and anxiety around athletics is is not going anywhere.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's starting to trickle down again to the high school level.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And even at this stage with my six-year-old, I'm seeing that pressure trickle down.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, you know, I really want to focus with her on what athletics represents to me, which is learning the value of hard work, of integrity, of doing things the right way.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think anyone who's been involved in athletics knows that these types of values of leadership, of teamwork, of hard work, those are values that transcend athletics and can help people in in their lives, either in their jobs, in their family, in their community.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what you know I'm focused on with my children in athletics.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm hoping that if she continues to progress in athletics, that those values are still at the forefront of those experiences.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: No doubt.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: You could have kept your research behind academic paywalls, but you chose to publish a free weekly newsletter making college sports finances accessible to everyone.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: What does the legacy beyond the research mean to you?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Great question.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think I I've I've spent 10 years working on this dissertation, and I want to make sure that that knowledge gets shared broadly.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not helpful to me, in my opinion, to have that published in some online library at the at the college's website.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I really wanted to make sure that people understood that the concerns, the, the, the disingenuous concerns, I would say, of those against student athlete empowerment, that I've empirically tested those concerns and that they are unwarranted.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a theme that has value even today as the movement towards student athlete empowerment continues.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, I think this space is underserved.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, as more money gets put into the college of athletics, I think there's an opportunity for someone who can understand the data, understand how the finances and the accounting works, to break that down and make it simple and make it understandable.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why all my newsletters have a have a graph or chart, uh a visual of some sort.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really a big piece of of the newsletter is to explain some of these things in a simple, straightforward way.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm hoping to serve that market, that those that audience that is interested in the beside behind the scenes, the economics, the accounting, the finances of of college athletics.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to ask, you know, we we had a conversation with a with a sports agent last week, and I kept using the expression the wild NL has become the wild, wild west and the transfer portal.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually paused for a minute and he said, is that he thinks it's a race to the bottom.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: What are your thoughts on that uh as far as is it a race to the bottom or is it just the new frontier?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good good question.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think we overstate how much has changed in some regards.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think for a long time it's always been the haves and the haves nots, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And those that are trying to keep up with the Joneses.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you look at the history of conference realignment, which has basically been an elaborate rat race between institutions to climb to the the biggest money faucet of television deals.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't think much has changed in the grand scheme of things.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Schools are still trying to position themselves to acquire the the maximum amount of prestige that they can in the college athletic space, just like they do in higher education broadly.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think the big change now is that the student athletes are getting a piece of the pie.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is uncomfortable for a lot of people, and it's it's additional expenses that are being brought in into the space.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I think now that they're getting paid and that revenue is being shared, there's a more focus than ever on the business of college athletics and how to professionalize and how to to draw and generate additional revenues to compensate for those new expenses.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it in some ways, you know, I it's it's easy to get cynical and say it's a race to the bottom, but to me, I think it's it's more of the same that that people are just trying to expand this new space of NIL and player revenue sharing.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: So building on that, what's the one truth you wish every student athlete, parent, or coach understood about college athletics, their finances, and NIL that most aren't hearing today?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think for me, student athletes and their parents should just focus on the educational opportunity that that exists in college athletics.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's changed.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, the statistical likelihood that any player entering college athletics is going to make millions of dollars, make it to the professional leagues is is near 0%.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've made it to a place where you can get an education and where you can take advantage of opportunities at the institution, that should be everybody's focus because that's that's more realistic for everyone.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, with NIL becoming more of a reality, I think athletics, athletic departments are focusing a lot on student athlete brand development, marketing, and that just provides more opportunities for student athletes to network, to get internships, get employment opportunities.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think there's more opportunities for student athletes than ever before, but the focus should always be on education and what opportunities can come up after their education ends.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great segue into segment three, which is advice across stages.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: So if you could sit down with a high school athlete and their family who are navigating, recruiting, and IL offers, what do they need to understand about the financial side that nobody's telling them?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the first thing I would say is get representation.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because going back to one of the earlier questions, there's a lot of bad actors in the space, both in the agent space, both in the brands that are trying to do some of these deals and some of the schools that are writing these contracts.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: It can't be said enough that student athletes, if if they're in a space to do some type of brand deal, they should get some type of representation.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: No question.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then as far as what they should be focused on is, you know, don't do anything that's gonna draw away too much from what the focus should be, which is your craft.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at the high school level, there are so many recruits for so many sports, you know, the opportunity window is so small.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: You you want to focus on being the best student athlete that you can be, both in the classroom and on the court or on the field.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, those opportunities will be there regardless.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're a nice benefit.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I don't want to negate the benefit that NIL presents for student athletes, but again, the focus should always be on education and maintaining your performance on the field.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: And what about the college athletes who are currently in the NIL area?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: NIL or era.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: What would they what should they know about evaluating deals, understanding their net worth, and protecting their financial future?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think this is one of the real positives that we've seen.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of college athletic departments are investing in resources, both personnel and staff, and third-party services to help educate student athletes.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think really financial literacy in this country or in in the high school space and college athletic space is poor.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's been a recognition of that.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, financial literacy is is crucial.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's not part of any official curriculum, but I think college athletics is starting to understand that they need to play a role in that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I would really push for any current college student athlete to really, you know, invest the time in developing your own financial literacy.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It will pay off dividends both during your college career and afterwards.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, as far as trying to understand, you know, your your value and trying to make sure that you maximize any opportunities that you have, I would just say, you know, work with your staff at your school.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, the athletic departments want you to be able to maximize your opportunity.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're seeing a lot of schools invest in marketing staff and and NIL content creation.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of athletic departments want to work with their student athletes and and maximize their exposure because not only is it good for the student athlete, but it pays off for the school to be able to market that to the next generation and the next year's class.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's mutually beneficial.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think making taking advantage of those resources is is in everyone's best interest.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right, no question.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: What about for athletic departments, coaches, and administrators?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: What do they need to understand about the financial realities of NIL and the NCA policy that your data has revealed?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think athletic departments have recognized pretty quickly that they need to play a role.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I from the data that I've gathered on college athletic staff, they are investing in hiring staff dedicated to maximizing NIL opportunities, marketing students, helping them develop their brand identities and network with these brands to make you know all types of opportunities for sign-ins and autographs and memorabilia.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think college athletics departments understand that pretty well at this point.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would just say, again, a focus on financial literacy, both at the broader college and in the department.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that would be really beneficial.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then make working with the student athletes, creating relationships and making sure that they have the resources they need.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a mix.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some student athletes know what what they want to go after, how they want to market themselves, and they have a financial sense of what their value is.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: But some student athletes, there's a lot of them that just think, well, I'm not a D1 football quarterback.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't do anything.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: When you know, you hear a lot tons of stories about you know, you're a random track athlete partnering with the the deli shop down the street and getting free food for the team after every meet, you know, small little things like that that unfortunately 10 years ago would have been outlawed.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, what I just suggested for a silly example would have gotten the entire team banned.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's just endless opportunities now for teams and players to to connect with local businesses that really want to maximize their exposure, you know, in the local community and would be glad to partner with some student athletes.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no question.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the a couple years ago, you well, let me back up a little bit.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think in our initial conversation, my brothers played uh football at San Diego State in the 90s, and they actually blocked for Marshall Falk.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I went to the University of Arizona, and coincidentally, San Diego State built a new stadium after they tore down Quelcomm and Jack Murphy Stadium, and they built Snapdragon Stadium for the Aztecs.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's about 30, 40,000 seats.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: But this was like, I think it was 2022 or 23, where the first game of the season was San Diego State against Arizona.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And because of our alumni associations, my brothers and I went to the game.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: 30 years later, there were college kids in the stands wearing Marshall Falls jerseys that weren't even alive when he was playing.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know he's not.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Getting paid for those jerseys because, you know, he put San Diego State on the map.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then one of the conversations that Mark and Matt and I had, they, you know, they were offensive linemen, they were big guys.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if this is at San Diego State, imagine what's happening to these other power schools where, you know, if they would have gone to dinner with a booster or alumni, they'd have could they could have gotten dinged and even suspended.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: So you're absolutely right on that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's just kind of open the door.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, make it a little more equitable for the athlete as well as for the institution.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to turn it over to segment four, which is the rapid fire round.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And Aaron gave me the thumbs up.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: She's back in the game.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: So Aaron, go ahead and take it away.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I am back in the game.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry about that, Greg.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: A little technical issues on my side.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: So what I want to do is I'm going to start a sentence and I'm just going to have you finish it for me.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So discipline equals.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Discipline equals results.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't think anyone can make anything of themselves if they're not disciplined because there's always going to be someone who's willing to outwork you, outthink you, outplay you.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're disciplined and follow a routine of hard work and focus, results will will always happen.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Leadership equals.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Leadership equals something to aspire to.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: What about faith?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Faith equals.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Faith.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think faith equals a very complex series of calculations.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm a data analyst by trade, so I generally think I have faith by making uh extended amount of research into the data, into the what's the what the machinations are of my my field, of what the problem I'm trying to solve is, so that I can make the best best decision that I can and have faith that my methodology, that my research questions, that those will drive me to the best result.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: What about legacy?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: What is the legacy equal for you?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Legacy to me means that if you work hard, if you do your best, if you put your best foot forward, then the results that you have are immaterial to the feelings that you put that people have about you.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think there's that quote you always hear that it's not what you say or what you do, but people will always remember how how you made them feel.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you go about your business respectfully, working hard, the legacy is that people are going to remember you for those things and how you treat people treat them.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think your legacy is a result of how hard you work, who you are, and how you treat people.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what's one thing you would never compromise on?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I would never compromise on is respecting people.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I see people who get frustrated or who get upset and think that that justifies them mistreating people or or not treating people with respect.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, whether it's the the person behind behind you in line or in or behind the counter at the grocery store or serving you a coffee or the the janitor you walk by in the hallway, I just think I would never compromise the idea of treating every single person as an individual who deserves respect and appreciation for what they do, no matter what their job is.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something I never would compromise on.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And my last question is what's one message if you could put it on a billboard for student athletes and families about NIL and college sports finance, what would your one message be?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think my message would be focus on the classroom.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I again I from a data perspective look at the macro picture.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And for the median student athlete, NIL is a nice little perk of a of a few thousand bucks if you're lucky.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Really, the benefit of being a student athlete is gonna be what you learn in the classroom and and what you get out of it for your career.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So my message to student athletes would be focus on the classroom.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: The sport will pass you by, but what you learn in the classroom will go forever.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, kids.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Focus on your education.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm gonna turn it back over to Thomas.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Greg, that's a great way to segue into segment five.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to add to that, it's just it what is so frightening to me, we just posted this clip from Davos Sweeney about because of the transfer portal in NIL, you're gonna have you have all these athletes jumping ship, you know, they make three, four, five transfers.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then at you know, they're not gonna have a college degree or a college degree that's gonna be worthless, and they're gonna be 30 years old, no, no real education, the money has run out.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I I mean, one of the things Aaron and I deal with is after the game is over with professional athletes, the depression, the identity crisis sets in.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Can you imagine what's happening with what's gonna happen with some of these athletes that have these nice, comfortable, six-figure NIL deals in college?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then when they don't really, and then you know, when they get out of college, as they say they don't play pro sports, we know the probability is short, small.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Then when they have an offer like a$65,000 to$80,000 starting job, starting salary, they kind of balk at it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I think some players are going to be ill-suited for the their post-athletic career based on some of the decisions they're making.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, I can't stress enough that I think this new world of NIL is a double-edged sword.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for instance, every story of the Fernando Mendoza's or Diego Pavier who are transferring and and you know, succeeding at a very high level, you know, there's just an abundance of student athletes who are transferring four, five, six, seven times between bouncing between schools.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: We all know they're they're not getting an education, and they're not they're certainly not earning enough revenue that's gonna last them the rest of their life.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's a double-edged sword.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I want student athletes to have all the opportunities in the world, but I I feel like some are just chasing the bag, and not a very big bag for that, for that matter, and and not focusing on the education that they can get, you know.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're I'm here in New England, I'm in just south of Boston, and and we we hear Tom Brady a lot talk about how much it served him to be on on the uh second, third, fourth string for years.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't a starter until his senior year, and that he credits with you know giving him the strength and the drive to succeed and and perform at the highest level.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And well, you know, look how that worked out for him.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think some student athletes are are just saying, well, if I don't get playing time, I'm gonna go here or there, or it's it's not working out for me, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go somewhere else.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of doing the harder route, which is working hard, practicing and being the very, very best that you can be and and earning your way to the starter role on your team, I just think sometimes the temptation to go somewhere where you can start right away is is it's very tempting for too many student athletes.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And besides squandering you know their athletic career, I just think that the education piece is lost there too, uh, which is unfortunate.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: So again, NIL and the transfer rules are a double-edged sword.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: No question.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Greg, before we wrap up, this is the final segment.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is there something we didn't touch on today that you feel that athletes, families or college sports fans need to understand about the financial side or pitfalls of college athletics and NIL?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, like our our discussions kind of displayed here is not only is this new space a little bit of the Wild West, that everything has a good side and a bad side, you know, I I think there are good actors, there are bad actors.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's exciting because there's so many new opportunities for student athletes.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm very happy to see that they are getting those opportunities, but you know, I think there's just as many opportunities for things to go bad, unfortunately.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So surrounding yourself with people that have your best interests at heart, that make good decisions, focusing on what education you're going to get and what career opportunities you can generate in in your education career, I think those are gonna serve you a lot more than trying to become, you know, a pro athlete or trying to get the million-dollar NIL deal.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think focusing on those things will serve student athletes better.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: So Aaron got you on the rapid fire round.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna put you in the hot seat.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: According to Greg, the world of Greg, top three sports movies of all times.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're talking about really important things.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I uh I love hockey, that's my favorite sport.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: So miracle has to be number one.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, number two, I would just say the entire Mighty Ducks series.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just put them all together as one.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: We can debate which one's the best.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's the second one.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, just to give some credence to college athletics, I mean, I just love Rudy.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm a sucker for it every time.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great movie.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm gonna give you my three, but sometimes when we talk to athletes nowadays, you know, we have we have the this one athlete that was hell bent on going to Notre Dame, wanted to be a fighting Irish since you know, for as long as you can remember.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay, do you want to be Rocket Ismail or do you want to be Rudy?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: And they looked at me like I had three heads, and I was like, ah, never mind.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you're gonna need to do your research on that one.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I agree with you on Miracle.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Miracle's number one for me.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Two is Rocky and three is Hoosiers, and then you know, you could pretty much have an honorable mention, you could put any one of Coster's movies in there from you know, Feel the Dreams to Bullderm and so forth.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Craig, where can people connect with you?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Whether that's on social media, a website, or your email.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll also put these in the show notes, but I want them to hear from you.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, appreciate it, Tom.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can find the newsletter online at nilnomics, n I L N O M I C S dot com.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: I post regularly on X and Twitter at Nil Nom at Nilnomics, and sometimes under my own name as Greg Chick Ph D, G-R-E-G-C-H-I-C-K, P H D.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you can find me there.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 33:05
  unknown: Dr.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Ray Chick, thank you so much for sharing your story and your truth.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Team, if this conversation challenged you, inspired you, or made you think differently, let's share it.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Send it to a student athlete navigating N I L, a family trying to understand college sports finances, a coach or administrator making financial decisions on behalf of the institution, the team, or the athlete.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: This is the standard podcast, and this movement only grows when we raise the standard together.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Talent fades, but truth endures.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let's raise the bar, let's rebuild the culture, and let's become the standard.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next time.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Greg, thank you so much.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron, thank you so much.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: You guys have a great rest of your day.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.