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Civilization & The Role of Religion; Song Reviews | Yaron Brook Show · Yaron Brook Show

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  Speaker 1: A lot of them quoted the lists of last christ
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  Speaker 1: and any individual loss. This is the show.
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  Speaker 2: Oh right, everybody walk up to here on book show
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  Speaker 2: on this what is it? It's November thirtieth, It is
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  Speaker 2: the last day of November. It is the beginning of
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  Speaker 2: that you know, period between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Christmas is
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  Speaker 2: just around the corner. New Years around the corner. Twenty
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  Speaker 2: twenty six is around the corner. Anyway, Today we're going
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  Speaker 2: to talk about civilization and the world of religion in it.
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  Speaker 2: Primarily we'll talk about civilization and uh, and.
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  Speaker 3: Then we will I will do some reviews.
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  Speaker 2: Of songs that about a year ago you guys asked
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  Speaker 2: me to review, and I apologize I have been in
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  Speaker 2: negligent in not getting these reviews sooner.
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  Speaker 3: So today we're going to do the songs.
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  Speaker 2: My hope is the next weekend I'll do I'll start
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  Speaker 2: on some of the TV shows.
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  Speaker 3: I think there's one movie that I have to review.
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  Speaker 2: There's a couple of like there's a biopic and a
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  Speaker 2: forty minute expose a and then we've got a book
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  Speaker 2: by Ivola that I need to review. So my goal
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  Speaker 2: is to do all of that by the year, by.
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  Speaker 3: The end of the year. Hopefully we can get all
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  Speaker 3: that done by the end of the year. So Saturday
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  Speaker 3: shows moving forward.
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  Speaker 2: Today Sunday no, but Saturday shows moving forward, we'll have
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  Speaker 2: a substantive theme and then reviews every Saturday. So I've
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  Speaker 2: got my work cut out for me. Got a lot
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  Speaker 2: to read, a few episodes of to see. Yeah, I've
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  Speaker 2: got right now, and those of you who listen to
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  Speaker 2: this later whatever. If if this needs correction, please let
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  Speaker 2: me know. But what I have is after these songs
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  Speaker 2: I've got, and let me know if I missed any songs.
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  Speaker 3: If I've finished all the songs.
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  Speaker 2: I've got Bla Black Adda, I've got a Star Trek episode.
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  Speaker 2: I've got two monologues from and Or. I've got a
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  Speaker 2: movie either Ford Versus Ferrari or foresa Aman Max Saga.
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  Speaker 2: And then I've got forty minute expose a Thellar must
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  Speaker 2: cheating scandal, and a twenty twenty four bio pic called
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  Speaker 2: better Man, and then write the Tiger book by Vola.
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  Speaker 3: So that's what I've got left. If I'm missing anything,
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  Speaker 3: let me know and we'll make it up. But anyway,
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  Speaker 3: let's jump in to a discussion of civilization and I purpose.
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  Speaker 2: So let me just say that a lot of this
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  Speaker 2: is just my thinking coming out of a seminar I attended.
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  Speaker 3: When was this a week ago? I think?
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  Speaker 2: I think a week ago Tennis seminar in Austin, Texas
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  Speaker 2: with a with a bunch of really really smart people
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  Speaker 2: and people you guys know, and my author, Donald Watkins,
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  Speaker 2: but Greg Solo, Mary and Jason Ryans and Jason Crawford,
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  Speaker 2: and a bunch of other people, many of whom I
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  Speaker 2: think all of them, almost all of them, I think
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  Speaker 2: all of them. I've interviewed at some point on the
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  Speaker 2: show to talk about kind of the whole ideas in history,
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  Speaker 2: how to look at history, and then an evaluation of
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  Speaker 2: Donna in my book, and an evaluation of.
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  Speaker 3: Jason Crawford's book.
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  Speaker 2: He's also got a book coming out, so we and
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  Speaker 2: all of it relates to history ideas, how to view
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  Speaker 2: the ark of history and so on, and so this
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  Speaker 2: is kind of today is going to be a riff
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  Speaker 2: of kind of my idea is coming out of that
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  Speaker 2: seminar and how it applies to the topic of the
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  Speaker 2: book that Don and I are writing, which is currently
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  Speaker 2: titled Western Civilization Versus Religion. Who knows what the final
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  Speaker 2: title will be, and hopefully the book will be going
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  Speaker 2: out to try to see if we can get publishers soon,
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  Speaker 2: and hopefully we will finish the book by the middle
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  Speaker 2: of next year and get published by the end of
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  Speaker 2: next year or the beginning of the following year.
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  Speaker 3: We'll see.
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  Speaker 2: So these are thoughts as they are gelling with, you know,
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  Speaker 2: based on the seminar and based on everything else that
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  Speaker 2: I've been doing. So first note that I didn't call
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  Speaker 2: this Western civilization the discussion today because I mean, really,
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  Speaker 2: I think it is an important point that if when
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  Speaker 2: looks at history there is one story of civilization, it
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  Speaker 2: happens that from the Enlightenment or maybe from the Renaissance
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  Speaker 2: on that civilization was centered in the West, primarily Western
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  Speaker 2: Europe and in America, but since again become global to
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  Speaker 2: a large extent, Western civilization today is a global civilization.
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  Speaker 2: So what we're going to talk about today is the
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  Speaker 2: arc they historical arc they historical development of civilization. I
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  Speaker 2: think it's as important to note and I think.
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  Speaker 3: This was a perspective coming out of the seminar which.
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  Speaker 2: I always had, but really sharpened it. It really sharpened it,
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  Speaker 2: and it made it explicit in a sense, and that
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  Speaker 2: is the civilization is a process. It's a process that
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  Speaker 2: is continuously building on the past. It is continuously building
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  Speaker 2: a knowledge. It is continuously if it's moving in the
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  Speaker 2: right direction, continuously improving. It's a civilizing process. And this
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  Speaker 2: is why we can talk about Egyptian civilization of I
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  Speaker 2: don't know three thousand years ago, and I don't know
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  Speaker 2: much about very ancient civilizations three four thousand years ago,
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  Speaker 2: maybe five. And but you know, if they lived that
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  Speaker 2: way today, we wouldn't consider them civilized. We consider them barbaric.
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  Speaker 2: But in the context of the time they were civilized.
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  Speaker 2: And then you've got a building. You know, the next
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  Speaker 2: civilization rises and it builds on the previous civilization, improves
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  Speaker 2: on it, makes it better, advances it. And there are
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  Speaker 2: periods in human history we can talk about those. Whether
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  Speaker 2: there's no civilization, it disappears, or at least it's manifestation, disappears,
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  Speaker 2: even though you know there are people preserving it in
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  Speaker 2: the background and in hiding and in secret.
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  Speaker 3: But it often just.
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  Speaker 2: You know, disappears, and then when it comes back, it
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  Speaker 2: is building on past knowledge. And just like knowledge builds,
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  Speaker 2: just like we stand on the shoulders of giants before us,
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  Speaker 2: of people who discovered and and and presented us with
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  Speaker 2: knowledge of the past.
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  Speaker 3: We build on that knowledge.
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  Speaker 2: So civilization is ever evolving, ever growing, ever deepening, ever
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  Speaker 2: you know, ever getting closer to you know, an ideal.
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  Speaker 2: Let's talk about what civilization is before we get kind
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  Speaker 2: of to the history of it, you know. So I'm
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  Speaker 2: just reading kind of a standard kind of description of civilization.
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  Speaker 3: A complex human society.
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  Speaker 2: We developed forms of government, culture, social structure, and technology.
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  Speaker 3: You know, probably put in law, you know.
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  Speaker 2: A system of some kind of system of law, some
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  Speaker 2: kind of semblance of law, and social structure technology. Typically
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  Speaker 2: it's characterized by you know, a stable food, supply ofization,
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  Speaker 2: written language, and.
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  Speaker 3: And and and and you.
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  Speaker 2: Know, some kind of some kind of relative to what's
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  Speaker 2: around it and relative to what came before, some economic
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  Speaker 2: you know, stability and and and uh and benefit a
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  Speaker 2: higher standard of living of what's around it, and benefit
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  Speaker 2: you know, less uh less starvation less uh less being
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  Speaker 2: exposed to the elements.
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  Speaker 3: Governments and laws. There's a structure, culture, there.
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  Speaker 2: Are there are you know, ideas and there is uh
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  Speaker 2: there is you know, as certainly there's an attempt at
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  Speaker 2: some level, and we started at a very primitive level,
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  Speaker 2: and we advanced with civilization. An attempt to understand the
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  Speaker 2: world around us, you know, which ultimately become science, an
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  Speaker 2: attempt to understand the world in philosophy. Science and philosophy
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  Speaker 2: and religion is a as I Man described it, a
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  Speaker 2: primitive form of trying to understand the world around us.
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  Speaker 3: It's a.
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  Speaker 2: You know, typically it's it's a written language. There's a
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  Speaker 2: written language. There's a wave of communication, there's an effective
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  Speaker 2: way of communication. There's technological advancement. There's an improvement in
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  Speaker 2: the standard of of of of living again at various rates.
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  Speaker 3: There's art.
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  Speaker 2: There's some form of aesthetics, whether it's simple drawing or
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  Speaker 2: the sculptures of the Egyptians all the way up to
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  Speaker 2: the Renaissance and the amazing arts of the Renaissance. There's
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  Speaker 2: architecture again, from the Pyramids to uh, you know, grand
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  Speaker 2: buildings in Rome.
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  Speaker 3: To mosques, cathedrals.
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  Speaker 2: Uh and uh and alternate, you know, and and Frank
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  Speaker 2: Loyd right, there is development in architectu Architecture again is developing.
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  Speaker 3: So there is there is that.
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  Speaker 2: So so those are all the kind of the features, the
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  Speaker 2: expansions of a civilize of civilization, of a of a
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  Speaker 2: civilized world, and you could think of, you know, Andrews says, freedom,
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  Speaker 2: you know, freedom as an idea right ultimately in ultimately
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  Speaker 2: civilization requires freedom.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, but early civilizations were not free. Uh.
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  Speaker 2: We still say Egypt was a civilization because in the
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  Speaker 2: context of its time, it was relatively prosperous. It had
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  Speaker 2: a system of government and laws. It had some stability,
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  Speaker 2: political stability. It had, you know, arts, it had it
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  Speaker 2: had a system of arts. It had an attempt to
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  Speaker 2: try to understand the world through religion in their case,
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  Speaker 2: and a written language, and some technological advancement. Of course,
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  Speaker 2: the pyramids architecturally quite stunning in how technologically advanced they are.
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  Speaker 2: So civilization has these external manifestations we can cause about,
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  Speaker 2: we can talk about the cause of all of these.
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  Speaker 2: What leads to all of these, and ultimately what leads
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  Speaker 2: to successful civilization.
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  Speaker 3: Is man using his mind. Man, you know, engaging with
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  Speaker 3: one second, something's going on here? Man engaging with the
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  Speaker 3: world around him.
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  Speaker 4: Why is this not second?
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  Speaker 3: All right?
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  Speaker 2: Man engaging with the world around him, learning to understand
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  Speaker 2: that world, and then using his mind to change that
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  Speaker 2: world to fit his wants.
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  Speaker 3: Needs desires, right.
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  Speaker 2: So I mean think about the amount of thought, the
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  Speaker 2: amount of planning and thinking and thinking, the amount of
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  Speaker 2: the application of reason, of rationality that had to go
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  Speaker 2: into building the pyramids.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, the permits are not easy to build.
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  Speaker 2: You know, you had to you had to carve out
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  Speaker 2: the stones, you had to transport them to where they
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  Speaker 2: were built, you had to figure out their sizes, you
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  Speaker 2: had to figure out how.
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  Speaker 3: To lift them.
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  Speaker 2: And even though slaves and you know who knows who
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  Speaker 2: who actually did the physical labor, they had to be
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  Speaker 2: a real mind behind it. So the fundamental feature of
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  Speaker 2: civilization is a mind at work.
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  Speaker 3: A mind at work.
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  Speaker 2: And civilizations improve, grow, develop. What you see is the
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  Speaker 2: human mind being applied to more and more things, to
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  Speaker 2: more and more of reality, to more and more of
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  Speaker 2: man's needs. I mean, think about the complexity of early
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  Speaker 2: agricultural civilizations because at the time they were civilizations relative
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  Speaker 2: to the Noman's nomadic tribes, which continued for if we
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  Speaker 2: first started agriculture in you know, what is it, twelve
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  Speaker 2: thousand years ago at around ten thousand BC. Then, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: some of my dates are going to be off. I'm
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  Speaker 2: not a professional starian, but a long long time ago.
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  Speaker 2: If agricutures around ten thousand BC, we still have nomans today.
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  Speaker 3: We certainly had nomans well.
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  Speaker 2: Into the you know, twentieth century in Arabia, in the
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  Speaker 2: Middle East and northern Africa still has nomans today. Nomadic
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  Speaker 2: lifestyles or nomadic tribes exists as side by side with
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  Speaker 2: the beginnings of civilization throughout or the development of civilization
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  Speaker 2: throughout human history. You know, it's an interesting, interesting question
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  Speaker 2: why not more people joined the civilized and adapted civilization.
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  Speaker 2: But it was side by side for very you know, forever,
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  Speaker 2: to some extent still today, there were one hundred gatherers,
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  Speaker 2: but there were also hoodahs and you know, and nomadic,
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  Speaker 2: nomadic people who didn't settle down. And it's impossible really
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  Speaker 2: to create civilization unless you settle down.
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  Speaker 3: This is why civilization is very much related to urbanization.
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  Speaker 2: Civilization goes hand in hand with towns and cities. You know,
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  Speaker 2: the size of the cities, the extent of people living
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  Speaker 2: in cities is a measure an indication of civilization and
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  Speaker 2: the growth and the existence of civilization in any particular time,
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  Speaker 2: in any particular period, in any particular place. But think
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  Speaker 2: about the first people that settled on agricultural communities and
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  Speaker 2: the difficulties that that entailed, the knowledge that they had
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  Speaker 2: to accumulate in terms of planting and harvesting and efficient
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  Speaker 2: use of the soil.
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  Speaker 3: And then getting water from whatever river.
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  Speaker 2: Gocial societies initially were very close to the rivers, but
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  Speaker 2: getting the water found the river to where you were
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  Speaker 2: planting the irrigation systems, and you go back thousands of
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  Speaker 2: years and what you find in all kinds, all different
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  Speaker 2: parts of the world, complex systems of irrigation, which are
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  Speaker 2: the real, probably first among the real first technological achievements
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  Speaker 2: of man. I mean large scale technological achievements in the
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  Speaker 2: bone and arrows, the technological achievement, all tools of technological achievements.
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  Speaker 3: But this is on a grand scale.
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  Speaker 2: You know, getting water to do what you wanted to
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  Speaker 2: do is not easy, not easy. Creating a system of
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  Speaker 2: irrigation is a complex, is a real achievement.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 2: Fluid dynamics that was the one class in civil engineering
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  Speaker 2: that was really really that and strength and materials were
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  Speaker 2: the two most difficult glasses I took. And yet you
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  Speaker 2: know they figured out without the math, they figured out
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  Speaker 2: much of the fluid dynamics to get the water to
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  Speaker 2: where they needed it to go and.
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  Speaker 3: So that they could irrigate vast areas. I mean, one
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  Speaker 3: of the things that I learned in the book I read.
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  Speaker 2: I read this book called Lost Enlightenment about the Golden
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Age of Islam in Central Asia, is how green Central
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Asia was in the pre Islamic era and through the
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  Speaker 2: Islamic area until about I don't know, twelve thirteen hundred
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: and eighty. And the reason was not a climate change.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that there was more rain the are the
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: temperatures were different or something like that.
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  Speaker 3: People looked at that and it's not.
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  Speaker 2: It was green because people had devised these complex irrigation
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  Speaker 2: systems to move water from where the rivers were and
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  Speaker 2: plenty of rivers in that area to where they were
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  Speaker 2: growing stuff. And Afghanistan was this was an amazing flourishing
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  Speaker 2: place during this period. And now it's what we know
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  Speaker 2: it for is a barren desert with no culture, no civilization,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: you know, the anti civilization because anti human life. So
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  Speaker 2: in an important sense, right, civilization is pro human life.
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  Speaker 2: It's it's a facilitator of human growth, flourishing at whatever
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  Speaker 2: level the civilization has achieved and civilization is something that
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  Speaker 2: is constantly getting better. It's getting better in making human
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: life better. And you know when we say with the
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  Speaker 2: civilization is the best, it is. It's the best by
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: the standard of individual human floishing. It's the best by
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  Speaker 2: the standard of the ability of their individual down this
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  Speaker 2: stand the world around him to thrive materially, to learn
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  Speaker 2: and experience you know, spiritual values, freedom, but the ability
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  Speaker 2: to use his mind in such a wide array of
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: issues and topics.
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  Speaker 3: So Western civilization is.
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  Speaker 2: Has built on all previous ones, but it's all one sequence.
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  Speaker 2: It's all one process.
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  Speaker 4: You know.
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  Speaker 2: Counter to this idea that there were there was the
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: dark Ages and knowledge disappeared from a planet, that's just
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  Speaker 2: not true.
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  Speaker 3: You know, civilization has just shifted to somewhere else. It
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: didn't go away. I mean, there was a period where
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: it was you know in the in the in on
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: the down and and and had faded, and it certainly
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: disappeared from the West for a thousand years, but in
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  Speaker 3: no other parts of the world.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: It came back and flourished and out did what it
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: was before the fall of Rome. And then as it
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: went away, it started rising in the West. So that's
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: kind of the this flow of civilization, this this ark
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: of of this this it's not really an ark, this
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: progress of civilization. I mean you can think of it
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: as you know, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, and and you can see,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: for example, the Greek civilization.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Greek civilization is the is the in a sense.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: The fountain head of so much of what is what
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: we consider civilization today. Why because if in Mesopotamia and
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: in Egypt, while there were there's growing knowledge, this growing
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: understanding of the world, there is solutions to certain technological problems, irrigation,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: for example, the building of large scale, large scale architectural projects.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: You see that, the establishment of laws and written language
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  Speaker 2: for the first time in human history.
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  Speaker 3: The laws might not be ideal, but there's the beginning
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  Speaker 3: of that. And by the way, I'm going.
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  Speaker 2: To in my discussion here, there are two civilizations I'm
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: going to be.
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  Speaker 3: Ignoring because I don't know anything about them. Well, maybe
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  Speaker 3: more than two, but certainly two that are related to
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  Speaker 3: the story we're telling, that interacted with the story we're
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: telling and therefore probably play an important role that needs
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: to be better understood. And the two civilizations I'm talking
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  Speaker 3: about in.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: India and China and China. I think people know a
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: little bit about India. We know almost nothing about at
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: least I know almost nothing about, other than they did
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  Speaker 2: some amazing stuff during periods in their history, like the
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: development of algebra. They discovery the Arab what's called the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Arab numerical system, but really is the Indian numerical system.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: And the discovery, which is us shattering and from a
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: mathematics science perspective, changes everything. Is the discovery of the
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: number zero uh and the the use of the number
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: zero that is that is uh, you know completely you know,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: that is completely striking, it's completely revolutionary.
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  Speaker 3: Anyway, I'm not going to talk about Indian Chining because
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  Speaker 3: I don't know anything about the Indian chin. They are
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  Speaker 3: kind of parallel civilizations.
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  Speaker 2: They eb and flow within they they reach a certain
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  Speaker 2: height and they don't break through like the West does.
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  Speaker 2: And that's really the fundamental difference. And we can speculate
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  Speaker 2: why they don't break through like the West breaks through,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: but it would be pure speculation because I just don't know,
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  Speaker 2: you know, and I don't know anybody who studied it.
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  Speaker 3: The West breaks through, and.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: We can see why the West breaks through, and then
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: maybe look to see if those those those things that
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: led to West to break through exist in the India
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and in the China civilizations, and I think you'll find
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: that they don't. And that's that's the cause of relationship.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Andrews says, Asian history is hard to evalue it philosophically.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Aristotle didn't infiltrate in my knowledge, but that's not true.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Right, So Aristotle was huge in Central Asia.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: He completely explains the the Islamic Golden Age in Central
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Asia and Islamic Golden Asians primarily in Central Asia. And
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I Astoto arguably makes it to India, I
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: mean partially because the Central Asians were in direct communication
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: with India, but also direct communication with China. I don't
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: know of evidence of his presence in China, though it's
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: hard to believe. I mean, it's hard to believe that
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: he wasn't because given the communication between the Central Asians
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: and China.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: But he certainly was in India.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And of course part of that, part of that we
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: don't It's hard to tell how much of it. But
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: part of that is because Alexander, Alexander the Great Right
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: the Concra conkered all of Central Asia, made it into
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the Indus Valley kind of the northern India left a
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: lot of Greeks throughout that area. Greeks were left there,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: including teachers, is all kinds of people who then settled.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Many of them stayed and settled in that area. So
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Greek ideas were very much a part of Central Asia.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: And then if I suspect India as well. Right, so again,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: what is this evolution And we're not gonna we're not
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: gonna get very far today. Today will be kind of
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: a an just the intro, and then we'll keep digging
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: deeper in future.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: Future shows.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Man's quest to understand the world, to understand himself and
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: to understand the world, to use his reason to discover
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: knowledge really that and then to adapt, sorry to adapt
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: his environment to fit his needs.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: It's to understand the world and.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: To adapt nature, adapt the environment to fit man's needs.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: That is the process of civilization. That is the threat.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Through civilization, we you know, manage the river system turning
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: into you know, water for agriculture, and we start building
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: cities and we develop agri We develop architecture, architectural abilities
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: and knowledge in order to be able to live in
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: a city. You know, you start developing even in the city.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: You know, basic source systems, basically ways to bring water
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: to a population that needs to drink. And then you
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: have to think about transporting from the fields to the city,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and now you have to think about different mechanisms of transportation.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And again you you know, you create political higher keys, and.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: That's the process.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: But in that that is all driven by a quest
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: for knowledge and a quest to apply that knowledge to
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: changing the environment to fit your needs. That's what the
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: story of humanity is about when it is successful, and you
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: can see it improve with each successful civilization. Of course,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: part of that is using that knowledge and using those
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: abilities to express yourself in for example, of in art.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: So if you think about Mesopotamia, Egypt, or the the
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Biblical you know, land of Israel, or you know the Jews,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: they are explaining the world, you know, in terms of
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: in terms of a very primitive approach to science and
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: technology that gets them by, right, gets them by in
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: terms of agriculture and so on, but not more than that,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and then beyond that any kind of more abstract questions
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: why are we here, what's the purpose? What is reality?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: How do we know reality? That kind of questions metaphysics
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: epistemology large in morality and even questions of politics, those
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: are primarily defaulted to some form of religion, and defaulted
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: in the sense of religion, it defaults to authority, and
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: this is why these cultures have very hierarchical uh political structures.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: The higherarchy of knowledge. Knowledge comes down from God, through
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: his prophets, through whoever speaks to him, comes down in books,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: it comes down from the priests. That's where knowledge comes from.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: And at least when.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: It comes to the abstract ideas again metaphysics, the philosophical
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: ideas as we understand him today, can maybe figure out
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: certain things about the actual physical world and make it
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: work in its own behalf, but not much more than that,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: And of course there's a cap to how much even.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: There they can do. I mean, Greece's great achievements.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Is that the Greeks start asking these big philosophical questions
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: and not looking to the gods as an explanation for everything.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Although they still have gods, they now look to discover
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: the truth about the nature of things, not just how
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: to manipulate things to get the water to where you
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: wanted to go, but to try to understand the very
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: nature of the world around them, and as a consequence,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: they develop ideas about philosophy, the nature of reality, the
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: nature of knowledge, what is good and is bad, and politics.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, think about the achievement of relative economic freedom
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: at least for a certain portion of the population under
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Athens and Athenian democracy, which is I mean, think about
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: that as compared to the strict hierarchy. And you know
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: that exists in an Egyptian, of Mesopotamium or any of
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: these societies where individuals have no voice in their own
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: governance at all. So Greece is the first civilization. While
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: entertaining religion starts actually breaking free of it in a
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: more systematic way, asking the big questions and looking to
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: human reason to answer them. And most of the answers
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: are wrong, right, But it's the asking the questions that
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: get people to start thinking so that we can get
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: to right answers. And it's the idea that right answers
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: are possible available and that we must use a proper
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: method in order to discover them.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: So, you know, Jason Ryan says, wonderful, wonderful lecture on
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: the Greek Enlightenment at oakonn Wood this year.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: It's still not it's still on twenty twenty six and
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. I don't know if it's up online yet,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: but when it does come online on YouTube, you should
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: definitely watch it if you haven't.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Seen it already.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: And the only problem with this lecture, and it was
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: a real problem, is that it's way too short. That is,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: he has so much material that it really should be
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: a series of lectures. It should be a series of
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: lectures on the Greek Enlightenment. And he talks about the
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: great achievements in Greece. So it's not an accident that
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Greece is where you see these amazing discoveries in science,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: in astrology, in sorry, in medicine, in trying to in
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: understanding the world around us, in mathematics, and of course
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: with Aristotle, kind of a system to discover knowledge, the
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: invention of science, the methodology of science. Astronomy, not astrology,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: of course, astronomy. It's interesting that in ancient times, and
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: at least in the and I don't know if this
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: is true Greece, but at least in the in the
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Muslim Golden Age, one of the great motivations the astronomy
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: us for the purpose of to do astronomy was for
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: the purpose of astrology.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: They were real.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Believers in astrology, and in order to in order to
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: determine what the stars tell you about the fate, your fates,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: about what is coming, you need.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: To actually figure out what the stars.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: You know, where they weren't may be able to make
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: predictions about where they were going. So, you know, astronomy
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: was done to a large extent for the purpose of astrology.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: But astronomy, yes, I apologize for that confusion.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: So you get science, you know, you get you get
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the use of that science now, at least with in architecture,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: even get to some extent, the use of the science
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: for art for aesthetic purposes.
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: And you can see the progress being made from Egypt
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: to Greece, the explosion in science, the explosion in philosophy,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: the explosion in knowledge, and as a consequence, the cultural
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: consequence of that is just a massive evolution in terms
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: of in terms of art.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: And maybe you know.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: The best preserved art that we can actually see and
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: compare is in sculpture.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: And if you can see Greek sculpture.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: And Egyptian sculpture, you can see how early Greek sculpture
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: is very much mimicking Egyptian sculpture, and then it starts developing,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: it starts being better than Egyptian culture. It starts breaking
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: through the bromide, the stiffness, the two dimensionality, the repetition,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: and the immobility of Egyptian sculpture, and you start seeing
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: a definitive, idealized you know, Greek sculpture evolving from that.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: And then you've got the classical Greek sculpture evolving into
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: the Hellenistic Greek sculpture, where now there's movement and emotion.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: It's almost like the Romantic period of Greek civilization. And
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: you see that, you see real emotion, you see real passions,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: you see real emotions conveyed in marble and in bronze.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: And you can take just sculpture and you can see
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: the arc going from you know, from Egypt through the
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Hellenistic period and Greece, and you don't really get that
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: in sculpture what the hellen Is achieve. You know, you
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: don't get it again for you know, over fourteen hundred years,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: and in a sense of emotional conveyance, maybe as much
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: as nineteen hundred years, you don't get until the nineteenth century.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: But you get it someone you get in the Renaissance,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: and someone in the Baroque, and then you get it again.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: In the nineteenth century. That dynamism, that action.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: That but certainly you don't get into Rome other than
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: copies of what the Greeks did, and you don't get
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: anything for a thousand years in Christian Europe. So in
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: many respects, civilization is breaking away from religion.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: It is the slow process, and it's slow, and it
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: has to be slow. Of relying less on the idea
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: that knowledge comes to us from.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: A mystical being or beings, and embracing more and more
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: of the idea that knowledge is available to man. Knowledge
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: is directly available to man needs to use his reason
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: to discover that knowledge. And then more and more and
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: more of the universe comes under you know, the category of.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: Things knowable to man, and then of course the u
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: of that knowledge to improve man's life in this world.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: And you see in history again, in the history of civilization, you.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: See this process go from Sepotamia Egypt, and then of
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: course Greece is when it takes the big leap forward.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: It changes everything, and you know, Greek.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Civilization to some extent, it's starting to die already under
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: the Roman Empire.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: It's not the same. It doesn't have the dynamism, it
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: doesn't have the originality.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: Weighted down by a kind of a cynicism and a
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: skepticism that is part of Rome.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And then and then what dominates starts dominating Rome, and
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: it starts dominating Roman ideology is a return in a sense.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Backward looking return.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: To religion as explaining things, the sense in which during
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: the Roman Empire, during Roman civilization, the beginning of the
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: end of Roman civilization is as the civilization starts looking
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: more and more to various religions, but predominantly ultimately Christianity.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: As the tool the way to know the world.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: And of course, you know, though kind of geopolitical reasons
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: why Rome is destroyed. It's not that Christianity destroys it.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: But even if Rome is not destroyed by the Barbarians,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: sacked by the barbarians, even if it continued, if it
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: continued along the path that it was going on, science
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: was dying, Art was dying, Knowledge was dying. What was growing,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: What was growing was the role of religion, word of mysticism.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, to a large extent, it can be said
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: that religion kills the civilization and maybe doesn't kill directly
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: the Roman Empire. That has to do with a lot
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: of other stuff. I mean the people who literally sack
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Rome Christians, but of course at that.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Point Rome is also a Christian, just Christians have different sects.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, the civilization of that period really peaks during
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: the post of Statilian era Ariston then the post of
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Statilian era, but even then it's it's it's dying. Even
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: in Greece, as you know, Athenian democracy has ended, and
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: the Macedonian Empire takes over, and you know, Rome then
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: of course conquers Greece and takes all of that period over.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, science and knowledge continues in Greece and then
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: later and Alexandria, where you know, livelies are built and
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: and great scientific projects and philosophical projects are engaged in.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: But it's decaying.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: It's on its way out, and it's on its way
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: out at the same time as Christianity is gaining strength.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: And the reality is that where Christianity comes to dominate,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: civilization disappears. From four hundred to fourteen hundred, I mean,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: there's some technological advances, but very few.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: The economies in shambles.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: There's no architecture until the twelfth century when you start
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: getting cathedrals. But it's basically cathedrals. It's the only thing
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: that can be built and is architecturally successful. There's no science.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: There's no science. There's no even astronomical not astrological, astronomical observations.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: None. Christianity kills civilization when Christianity dominates, I mean dominates
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: where it is everywhere. Now, it hasn't given up on
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: Greek but it's taken what I would consider the worst
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: of Greece, the Platonic mystices and the neo Platonic mysticses
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: of the Greeks. When Christianity dominates, civilization dies.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: And then if you look, you know, when roam falls.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: The Byzantine Empire is still around. But does the Byzantine
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: ever Empire never reaches any dramatic heights of civilization. Yeah,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: they build some impressive buildings, and they're still have fantastic libraries,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: and they preserve a lot of the not everything, but
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of the old Greek knowledge, and they have,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: you know, the periods in which the successful in terms
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: of conquest, and they're quite wealthy. Suddenly in compared to
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: the Christian Christian West. They are quite wealthy, primarily because
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: they are connected in ways that the Christian West is not,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: to the trading roads all around uh, you know, through
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Asia to the Silk Road, and they're connected trade wise,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: and they're connected within the Mediterranean. But the Byzantine Empire
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: is stagnant. The Byzantine Empire is not a dynamic civilization.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: It is not improving, it is not getting better, it
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: is not building. It's primarily a civilization to the extent
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: that is even civilized, that is preserving, it's preserving the past.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: And that's it's great virtue is that preserves, not destroys
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: the past. Much of the past is destroyed in the
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: West under Christianity. In the East under Christianity, the past
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: is at least preserved, but progress is minimal. The next
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: civilizational boost forward, the next big explosion of knowledge of science,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: a philosophy of writing, even of art, and at least
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: in a sense of poetry.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: And and writing.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Less so in the in in sculpture and painting, primarily
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: because of the religion dominated there is comes out of
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: the Golden Age of Islam, and the Golden Age of
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Islam is explicitly by the writings of the people during
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: that period is a building on Greek civilization. The Golden
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Age ISLAMI is very much the translation of Greek wooks
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: into the dominant in intellectual language of the time, Arabic.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: And it's a dominant, the dominant so lost my trade
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: of thought there. So what you get is a translation
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: of the works of the Greeks. The one thing they
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: don't translate many of the plays that are translated, so
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: the aesthetics is not really translated, but the philosophy is translated.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Aristotle is translated, most of Aristota is translated, and then
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: you get philosophers all over, particularly the eastern part of
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: the empire, Central Asia, all the way to Baghdad, which
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: is in Damascus, linking through there you get real progress.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: So whereas the Byzantine Empire is stagnant into sellectually, little
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: has happening philosophically, scientifically in the Muslim Empire. There's a
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: certain excitement and thrill. And why it happens there and
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: not elsewhere that I don't know, but it happens, and
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's not accidental that it happens in Central Asia.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Central Asia is this hub of many cultures, multiculturalism, I
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: mean many cultural influences. It's got the influences of Indian civilization,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: the influences of Chinese civilizations, the strong influence of Greece.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: And during a period from you know, the eighth century
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: to the eleventh twelfth centuries, you get a great flourishing civilization.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: I mean major astronomical observations, you know, observatories being established
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: to study the stars. You get major problem in mathematics,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: medicine at a period where the Christian West there's zero
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: going on with medicine, there is zero going on in astronomy,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: there is zero going on in science.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: What you see in.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: This area that is being flooded by Greek ideas is
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: huge developments in all these areas, and for whatever reason,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: a willingness of the Islamic authorities at least for a
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: period of about three hundred years to tolerate this, to
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: allow it.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: I mean it's diminishing over time.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: They're willing to tolerate it less and less over time,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: and ultimately they're not willing to tolerate it at all,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: and it all goes away. But for a while there
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: it's flourishing. I mean, you get writers during this period,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: even expressing atheistic ideas in philosophy, you suddenly get advocates
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: for reason and science as explaining everything in a very
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: minimal role for a god, if any at all.
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: But you also get a lot of new Platonists, you
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: get you get just a wide variety of writers. But
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: the thing that really is being pushed forward is mathematics
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: and and UH and UH and science particularly, you know,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: science more broadly, and then in particular UH medicine, and
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: ultimately that knowledge that is created by these thinkers and philosophies, philosophers,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: these translations of Aristotle and the Greeks and everything. Ultimately,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: as the civilization in East Asia dies and Baghdad dies,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: and the Mongols destroy the entire place, and it really
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: never really recovers, but primarily because it becomes dominated by
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: guess what I mean, if you really look at what
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: it is that destroys the golden age of Islam, it's
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Islam as Central Asia and Iraq become more and more
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: dominated by Sufi's Sufi's Islamic mystics, by the ideas on
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: the one hand, Sufi mystics on the other hand, strict
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: obedience to the Islamic laws as passed on in the
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Qur'an and the hadiths, the sayings of Muhammad, and a
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: strict adherence to Islamic law, to Shariah, and a rejection
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: of what you know of reason, of rationality, of science,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: which is explicit in people like al Ghazali. As Islam
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: raises to dominate and suppress learning and suppress science and
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: suppressed reason, civilization dies.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: So Islam kills the Islamic civilization. And it it keeps.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: It keeps going for a little while in Andalusia, in
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: South Spain, where the libraries are thriving, and we have
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: the last of the great philosophers and and again UH
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: historians and UH and and thinkers and UH intellectuals of
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: of the Islamic world, the last of them in Northern
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Africa and in.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: And in southern Spain. And it's you know, it's it's
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: the it's the fall of Constantinople, which leads a lot
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: of Christians to flee to the West and bring with
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: them the books of ancient Greece that the libraries, pieces
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: of the libraries. And it is the fall of Cordoba,
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: and you know, Toledo and Cordoba and and and the
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: South of Spain, and and the the discovery by the
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: Christians of the libraries. And even before the fall of
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: those libraries, Christians were traveling to the South of Spain,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: even though the southern Spain was ruled by Muslims, and
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: studying in those libraries, and translating the the the Greeks
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: from Arabic into Latin, and bringing the books back to Paris,
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: and and Bologna, and and and.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Uh to to the to the west, and building the
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: beginnings of a foundation of the rise of what we
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: call Western civilization. And of course Western civilization pushed the
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: boundary ultimately even further in you know, during the Renaissance,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: they are slowly shrugging off, peeling off religion. They are
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: slowly marginal marginalizing the role.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Of religion and expanding the worl for reason, expanding the
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: worl for the individual, expanding the worle for individual. Discovering knowledge.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: And it first manifests itself in the arts and in philosophy.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Then it manifests itself in physics, in astronomy, and in
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: other areas in physics, and ultimately what you get is
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: an explosion of the scientific revolution. With Newton and the
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Enlightenment and explosion in philosophy with John Locke and Enlightenment thinkers,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: which leads us to the prosperity we have today. But
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: it's all one civilizing process which touches different geographic areas.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: And what's unique about it is that it involves marginalizing religion.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: But it's not moduling religion for the sake of marginalizing religion.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: It is modulating marginalizing religion to give space for reason.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: And as the efficacy of reason is discovered appreciated, so
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: greater and greater and greater scope is granted to reason,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: up to the point of reason can now guide our morality.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Metaphysics right, reality is what it is pistemology. We have
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: reason to discover the truth and reason can actually discover morality,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: which is inman's discovery. But was hinted that during the Enlightenment,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: that attempting to do it. During the Enlightenment, they don't
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: quite get it, but they're trying. They recognize that that's
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: an important project. It's what's necessary to do, and that's
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: the civilizing process. It's about the marginalizing of religion and religion.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: And here the importance is that religion is fundamentally anti civilization.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: It's anti progress.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Now, sure you can have religious societies in which there
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: is progress, because the meaning of religious society is that
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: people are religious at home, but they're secular everywhere else.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: They're using reason everywhere else.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: But the more religion is dominant in terms of its epistemology,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: in metaphysics, in the culture, the less knowledge there is
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: the progress there is, the less civilization there is. And
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: the more religion is dominant in morality, in ethics, the
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: less freedom there is, and therefore the less prosperity there is.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: So the whole project of civilization is in some sense.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: Getting away from religion, and the more we bring it in,
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: the more we lose that thing that is what makes
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: us civilized.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: So civilization religion are two opposing forces. I would say
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: that religion is an anti civilization of forts.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: It's a reactionary force. There's no It's not an accident
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: that people like Michael Knowles want us to go back
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: to twelve twenty.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: They want to go backwards to an uncivilized period. Twelve
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: twenty is not civilized. It's by every measure of civilization.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: The only thing you can say that was being built
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: that had any significance were cathedrals, and they don't actually
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: have any significance for human life. The old point of
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: building cathedrals to make you look small, to make human
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: beaks feel small. Even cathedrals in a sense of anti
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: civilization of forces, because they're trying to elevate religion and
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: a god above you. The civilizing process is a secularizing process.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: It is a process towards reason, towards individualism, towards ultimately capitalism.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: And human flowishing.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna call it there because I've already
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: gone a long and I've still got the move the
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: song reviews to do.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: And we'll do those. We'll do those now, but to
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: be continued. So there's a lot to say about this.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: There's a lot to say about every single aspect of this.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I see John is at his insulting stupidity again as usual.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: And you know, civilization and the civilizing forces a fundamentally secular,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: even if they have compartments, they're places in their minds
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: in the culture that are religious. It's the religion dragging
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: you down, it's the secular dragging you up. And we're
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: all we've never had a purely secular civilization. So we're
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: constantly being pushed down, pulled up, pushed down, pulled up.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Even in Greece you had religion. Even Greeks were challenged
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: by the fact that they believed in the gods, and
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: to the extent that they believed in the gods, that
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: was a force pulling them away from civilization.
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: All right, let's do this. I'm gonna answer the questions
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: that relate directly to this now. And by the way, we're.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: Reaching the end of the first hour and we haven't
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: made it to our target for the first hour, which
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: is two fifty, so we're forty nine dollars short. With
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: the last day of the month, I have a monthly target.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: We really need to make our targets today, and we're
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: going to go beyond two hours today. So hopefully there's
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: some people out there who are incentivized motivated by the
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: values they're receiving, assuming they're receiving any values. You know,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: John obviously isn't because he thinks I'm stupid to.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: Trade with me value for value.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: We need to get to some of these targets to
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: get out monthly targets. All right, let's so let me
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: just review the questions and see to see which ones
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: are directly related. Okay, Andrews says, how would you respond
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: to a conservative who acknowledges that reason is crucial for
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: man's mind but claims that faith is necessary for man's spirit. Yeah,
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, Christians say that today. They didn't say
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: that a thousand years ago, but they say that today
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: because a thousand years ago they would not acknowledge reason
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: is crucial for man's mind. That's why they were so
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: poor and so, you know, completely uncivilized at the time.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Why there was no science, there was no progress, there
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: was no there was no architectural progress, there was no
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: technological progress, there was nothing.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: There was stagnation because they.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Enveloped reason and they rejected reason completely, whether explicitly or implicitly.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: So now, given the success of science and given the
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: successive reason, uh, they have embraced reason in part of
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: life up to a point, not too much, as long
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: as we can manage it and as long as that
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: is intrude.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Or now dogma. Uh.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: And now it's supposedly just good for your spiritual What
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: they mean by spiritual is that it's good for your
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: it's good for morality, right, it's important for morality, and
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: it's it's important for achieving meaning and so.
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: On and again.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: This is this is primitivism, This is uh, the anti civilizing.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: This is a rejection our philosophy.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: And you know, religion as a it's a primitive philosophy.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: We you know, all the claims of religion has made
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: in terms of morality and in terms of spirituality have
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: been you know, rebuted by philosophers for hundreds of years now.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Religion has no claim over every any aspect of our lives.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: It does no claim that cannot be you know, made
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: by reason. It doesn't have any exclusivity over any realm,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: in any realm which makes a claim well by what standard?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: How do we know this?
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: And it's always a religious claim, which means a claim
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: unngrounded in reality and therefore easy to reject. Morality can
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: be established on reason, as Ironmanders shown, what realm of
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: spirituality requires belief in some omnipotent omniscients whatever, being on
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: a on a book written thousands of years ago that
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: claims to have knowledge about and turns out to be
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: wrong and pretty much everything and his self contradictory. So
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: it's just a false dichotomy. It's a mind body split
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: that doesn't exist. Mind and body are integrated. It is,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: you know, there's no positive argument. I mean, you'd have
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: to make an argument of why only religion can explain spirituality.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, meaning comes from your own values and your
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: own goal in life, and the primary meaning of life
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: is to live again. Morality can be induced from you know,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: man's life and the requirements of man's life.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: What wrong? You know?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: Aesthetics arts is incredibly spiritual, but can be understood by
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: understanding man's nature, his conceptual nature, his need for the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: concretization of his abstract ideas, and the nature of art.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: So have you one of the so called spiritual or
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: mystical or beyond reason claims religion makes you can actually
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: ground in an understanding of reality and understanding of the
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: nature of man, in other words, in reason.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: Uh, the dumb.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Chasbat says, Rebel number one, what have Romans ever given us?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Rebel number two? The aqueduct Life of Brian. Yeah, the
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: aqueduct is pretty cool. It's pretty amazing technology. For the time,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, for a thousand years there was none of it.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: It disappeared, the ability, that ability to move water. Somebody
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: says that ran Book is not a religious person. No,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I am an atheist, always been a pretty much, always
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: been an atheist since the age of six. So no,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: I reject religion completely. Uh them, Okay, we'll do that later.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: That is getting married, today's academic climate.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: Kids education, visiting Italy.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for questions related to this topic, anti Semitism.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: All right, that smoke could collapse something else? Something else?
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Is it actually a good thing? Millennials are getting married?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Something else? One second? Oh yeah, here's a John says,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: if Christianity ended the Roman Empire, why did the Eastern
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Empire last until fourteen fifty three, which was more religion
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: religious in the West. You're making stuff up, as I said,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: I did not say Christianity ended the Roman Empire. I
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: was careful not to say that it was a contributing factor.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: There's no question about that. And I said it was
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: actually sacked by other Christians. Christians sacked Christians. And I said, they, John,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: you just don't listen, you you you. I said that,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: you know, geopolitics ultimately determined the sack of Rome. The
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: fact that it couldn't uphold, it couldn't defend its borders.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: The fact that you know, these Germanic tribes were being
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: pushed west, these Geomantic tribes that were convoting the Christianity,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: the Barbarians war christian Uh. So Christianity contributed. It contributed
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: to stagnation in Rome. It contributed to stagnation in the West,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: and in the East. It contributed to uh, you know,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: the Byzantine Empire stagnation.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: And the business empires.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: In lack of capabilities to actually grow and flourish and
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: be successful. It expanded and trunk and expanded a trunk,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: all based on military successes here and there. And it
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: maintained its wealth primarily because it was directly connected to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: the Silk Road and didn't suffer from the kind of fragmentation.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: It got lucky because you know, the Barbaric tribes were
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: much more focused on moving west than they were coming south.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: And because of geography, because it was much easier to
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: defend Constantinople than it was to defend Rome.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: For a variety of reasons.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: So the variety of historical geopolitical reasons why the Byzantine
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Empire continued, but it continued as a Christian empire, and
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: therefore it wasn't successful, and I wouldn't call it a civilization.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: It wasn't.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: Again, it was a stagnant place. It was not a
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: place of development. It didn't achieve a Renaissance or Enlightenment
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: or anything.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: Really.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: Science pretty much stagnated there. It flourished in the Muslim world,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: it didn't flourish in the in Constantinople. It didn't flows
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: in the Byzantine Empire.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: You know, art declined in If you compare Greek declines
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: into Roman, Roman is basically copying Greece, and for Rome.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: Rome sculpture and art declines.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: When it comes to the Byzantines. You just don't get
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: a thriving I don't know Alexandria once. Once the Roman
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Empire falls and Byzantine is is uh survives. So yeah,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Christianity and of its off itself continues in the form
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: of an empire in Byzantine, but not in the form
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: of a civilization. Not if civilization means growth, improvement, more
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: increasing knowledge, increase and understanding of the world around us,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: it decays, it stagnants. That is the essence of the
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: Byzantine Empire. There's very little that happens. Uh and uh again,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: it's only picked up that growth of civilization is only
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: picked up in the in the Islami Golden Age, and
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: that dies once Islam becomes dominant. And then it has
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: you know, there's still attempts at new knowledge here and there,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: like under the Ottoman Empire they build an observatory and
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: then and then, you know, the religious authorities decide that
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: that is no good and it's inconsistent with Islam, and
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: they tear it down. So Islam kills civilization just in
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: the same way the Christianity kills civilization. It's a destroyer
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: of the civilized. And then John has a second obnoxious question.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: Let's see, Newton and Locke were Christians. Are you stupid?
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know there were. I know they were Christians.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know it will shock you, John, but
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: actually know that they were Christians. But their achievements are
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: not Christian. Their achievements are anti Christian. I mean, but
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: you know, Newton, what he discovers, he's not discovering out
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: of the Old Testament or the New Testament. What he discovers,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: you know, is new knowledge based on reason, not on revelation,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: based on observation and math and induction and a scientific method,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: not based on revelation. So Newton and Locke are incredibly compartmentalized.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: They can hold religion in one compartment and they can
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: do the other work in a different compartment. But to
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: the extent that the compartment that held religion in it
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: grew to try to explain, to use those that knowledge
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: the religious knowledge to try to explain the physical world,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: Newton could have never done what he did.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: Extent that Locke would have allowed religious knowledge to extend
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: into the ideas, the political ideas he had, he could
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: have never developed them.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: There's no individual rights in the New Testament. There's no
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: political liberty in the New Testament. There's no religious tolerance
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: in the history of Christianity in need.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, Locke is writing just after the horrific blood
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: bath of the City or War, where Protestants and Catholics
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: are slaughtering each other. So the idea that Locke and
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: Newton au Christian and that's what allows them to achieve
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: their achievements is ignorant. What do you call it? Stupid?
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: It is stupid, John, So, yes, they hold on to that,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: you know, it holds them back. Newton could achieve so
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: much more if you'd be willing to challenge that belief philosophically,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: But they also live in a time where almost nobody's
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: challenging that belief. It's really hard to challenge that belief.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: You get really persecuted if you challenge that belief.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: As it is, Newton held ideas about Christianity that were
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: very unconventional, like I think you rejected at Trinity and
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: kept those ideas to himself.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: So yeah, let's see.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: And can it become arbitrary to decide in advance that
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: any good must come from secular site and any bad
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: must be religious size? Well yeah, if you just decide
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: that out of the blue. But if you look at
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: what brings about the good right, what process led us
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: to discover the laws of physics, the application of reason
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: to moving bodies, to the system, the stars above us,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: scientific observation, induction, the scientific method, all things that are secular.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: You know, if you if you look at if you
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: look at if you look at art, what led during
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: the Renaissance to the identification of perspective and getting perspective rights.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, wonder Freeman, it's not imagination. Imagination is good
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: for writing science fiction novels. But what leads to great
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: scientific discoveries. Is induction. Is is genius and induction, it's observation,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: it's seeing the world and inducing from it. Induction is
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: the fundamental way in which we know the world. And
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: I know that is a source of disagreement, but that
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: is reality. I just don't understand people, you know, not
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: getting that. If you if you see a child and
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: how a child learns, you can see him inducing.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: You can see him inducing.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: He doesn't have imagination, he's not testing out theories. He's
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: seeing things in the world and he's saying, Okay, let's
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: see if that happens again, and let's se if that
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: happens again, and then inducing. A principle from that. Children,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: everything they learn they learn through a process of you know, observation, experimentation,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: and induction. They you know, the simplest concept derived from that.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: So if you look at a perspective, how did they
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: come about perspective? Why was perspective introduced into art during
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: the Renaissance and before not in the age of Christianity
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: when Christianity dominated as spheres of life, Because that's the
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: point in which we're looking at reality. We're trying to
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: understand reality we're developing mathematics, we're studying geometry. We're using
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: reason to understand the world.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: And perspective is a consequence of using reason to look
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: at spatial reality and using geometry to figure out how
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: it all lays out. So everything that is good is
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: a consequence of the use of reason, of the use
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: of observation, of the use of scientific method and induction.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: In any realm, if you look at economic if you
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: look at political liberty, political liberty comes from the recognition,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: not of religious commandment, better recognition of the sanctity of
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: the individual human being, of the value the worth of
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: an individual human being. And what kind of society makes
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: it possible for the individual human being to thrive and
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: to live and to live well. A society which extracts
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: force from it, which does not allow people to deal
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: with one another through violence.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: You see that in lack.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Arguments derived by reason from observations. In reality, you start
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: with observation and you reason from that.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: That's so all the good comes from that and bad.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: You know, violence, dogma, blind obedience, all come from religion.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: All come from religion, and they come from religion which
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: negates reason. They cripple your mind they make. They tell
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: you don't use reason in this realm. You can use
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: it over there, but don't use it in this realm.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: And any realm where you don't lose reason is a
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: realm of decay, stagnation, you know, retrograde, going backwards, and
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: ultimately destruction. So you can say, not arbitrary, but you
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: can say based on the facts that one one process,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: a process based on reason, leads the progress, and one process,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: a posts is based on.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: Faith, leads to you know, decay.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: All right, Uh, Carl Meisenbe says, I think you're going
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: too easy on religion. It cripples the minds of with
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: horrible philosophy. Yeah, I mean, look, this is not I'm
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: not trying to talk about all the evils of religion.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to put it in the context of civilization
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: and the idea of civilization, of religion being a drag
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: on civilization, of religion being a counterweight.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: To civilization, a counter force the civilization. And the more
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: you take religion seriously, the less civilized you become.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: And you see that in the Muslim world, you see
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: that in the Christian world. You will see that in
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: any world, in any world, you will see that whenever
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: religion rises, civilization decays. And I don't know of any
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: example in history. So I'm not talking about all the
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: different ways in which religion cripples the mind. That would
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: be a different lecture.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: A different show, a different program. All right, real spark.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: The world advances with Western civilization is despite the slave trade.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: But do you see any good things come came out
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: of Eastern civilization, African civilization, indigenous civilization. Very little that
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: I know of came out of indigenous civilizations or African civilization.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: Although if you considered Egypt African civilization, then for its
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: time and place, it moved the needle forward, it moved us.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you get Greece without Egypt.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: Right, These civilizations are not discrete, they don't stand on
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: their own. They're constantly communicating with one another, they constantly engaged.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: So yes, certainly Egypt, to the extent it's a African civilization,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: had a huge impact on Greek civilization, which had a.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: Huge impact on Western civilization.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: Western civilization does not arise out of nothing, It's not
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: out of a void. And then if you say East civilization,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: and absolutely I mean God, I mean the concept of
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: the number of the number zero, the whole numerical system
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: we used. It comes out of Eastern civilization in India
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: in this case, you know, the printing press, which is
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: so so so crucial to the Renaissance and to the Enlightenment,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: to the spreading of ideas and to the expansion of
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: civilization starting in the fifteenth century, you know, and onward.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: That's invented in China. Gunpowder is invented in China, so
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: it comes from China. So much came from China in
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: terms of in terms of the material that wasn't used
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: by the West to build on. So Chinese civilization definitely added.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: Indian civilization definitely added, Egyptian civilization definitely added. It's a
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: cumulative effect. Western civilization doesn't come out of nowhere. It
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: comes from knowledge passed to it from the past. And
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: Greece doesn't come out of nowhere. Greece exists because of
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: knowledge that it gains from Africa, i e. Egypt, Mesopotamia,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: even India or Central Asia that that flows.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, people were trading and therefore interacting and therefore
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: engaging in a in a in an exchange of ideas
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: pretty much since the beginning of time, Paul Right Thomas
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: Aquinas separated them into reason, reason in the Divine, which
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: had a profound effect on the developer of humanism. Yes,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, uh, Aquinas at least separates realms, which is
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: the divine and which is the which is the reason
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: that the one left for reason?
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: But and to the extent and.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: Ultimately it quite as as wrong because there's only one realm,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: and that is the realm of reason.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: There's no realm of divine.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: But in those areas where you have where he identifies
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: reason as the guide, that's where you get development. That's
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: where you get progress, and everything else is silted in
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: the realm that's supposed to be the divine, and we
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: keep chupping away at that, and that's where you get.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: Expansive and increase. Let's see, Nick.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: Says I recently came across the claim that the Medievals
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: viewed the Bible more figurately than literally. Thoughts you know,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: they were, they were thinkers throughout the thought of the
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Bible more figuratively. But that was a constant conversation within
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: the Catholic Church, is how to address the Bible and
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: to what extent was it literal? And to what extent
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: was it figurative? And that that is a conversation which
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: you constantly have. But the people who are for the
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: literal one when that debate at least until kind of
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: the Renaissance, until late for for a long time, you know,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: thinkers who thought it was just figurative were persecuted by
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: the church, by.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: The authorities of the church.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, that's a conversation that always happens,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: happens within Judaism, happens within Christianity. It doesn't solve the
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: problem even if it's figurative, figurative towards what what?
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: What is the truth?
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: That it's still conveying truth, maybe not literal truth, but
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: still conveying truth. Is the truth in the books because
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: they were written by God or by somebody inspired by God? John,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: do you agree with objectivists who say iron Man was
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: morally perfect?
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: Isn't that semi religious? What were her flaws? I don't know.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think she I don't know. I
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: didn't know her. I didn't know her personally. I don't
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: find that interesting at all. She's not a god, she
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be treated like a god. But on the other hand,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: she you know, was our teacher and was a great
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: philosopher and a great thinker. And I think, based on
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: everything that I know about her life, that she lived
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: to the best of her ability, the light the life
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: based on a philosophy. She practiced what she preached and
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: she lived it. And I think she lived a successful,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: happy life. I don't know what morally perfect means. Did
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: she never evade ever, ever, on any issue ever?
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't know. I wasn't there she was,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: but she was amazing. She was an amazing human being.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: I mean this idea of you know, you should strive
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: for your own mal perfection. Stop trying to judge other people.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: You know, you don't know if they're all the perfect.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: You don't know when and what they evade, and where
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: they evade and how they evade. So you know, it's
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: it's hard enough.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: To figure out and to strive for your own to
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: value it yourself, all right, Linda says, based on this show,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: you're going to love Quincodere's adultry novels on your shelf. Yes,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: they are on my shelf. I saw them on my
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: shelf the other day. They're right there, not on this shelf.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: They're In the Bookshelf over There, where the fiction is,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: Andrews says, paraphrasing, rand, you don't adopt atheism because of
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: a lack of a god, but because you accept reason
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: is an absolute This is is this valid correlation. One
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: doesn't get to atheism by being a cynic, but by
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: being a scientist.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't know.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, I don't think that's a that's a
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: real thatomy, right, I became an atheist at the age
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: of six. It would be ridiculous to say I was
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: a scientist at the age of six. It would even
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: be ridiculous to say that I somehow explicitly accepted reason
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: at the age of six.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: I found.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: The story of religion ridiculous. I thought it was silly.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: It didn't make any sense to me, so I abandoned it.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: It wasn't that I had a rigorous methodology of reason
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: that I was judging it by. So you know, the
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: thing is that.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: People were telling me this is the way things are,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: and I looked at it and I said, that doesn't
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: make any sense to me. I don't get it, and
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: I just walked away from it. It wasn't even a deliberate,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: thought out decision. It was just a rejection of fantasy
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: for being fantasy. So I didn't experience discovering re and
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: then using reason to figure, oh, well, there's no it's
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: that there's a sension, which my motus at Paranda was
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: reality oriented.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: And if your reality oriented, then you never you know,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: you never really.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: Attracted by something that is, uh, you know, by definition,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: detached from reality.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: All right, let's let's do these. Let's do these.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: What what is this? All right?
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: Um, let's do these music reviews. So you know I'm
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: way behind on these. I promised them a long time ago.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: So let's go through them and let me give you
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: all the caveats that I do about these.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: Right, you guys paid me to do these. But the
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: reality is that I don't know.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: Really anything about popular music, I mean, other than what
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: I like and so what I tell you and I know,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: and I'm not a musicologist, so I can't in detail
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: break down a piece of music and tell you what
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: it is about it that I like or don't like,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: or what it is about it that I think is
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: good or not good. I can give you my impressions.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: So this is my personal opinion. This is not objectivism.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: This is not the objectivist position on any of these
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: God forbid, right, this is Iran's reaction to these songs
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: and sometimes today lyrics to the extent that the lyrics
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: are meaning. And you know it's basically it's basically it.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: So you know, don't don't attribute to me some you know,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: some depth here. There's no depth. This is just for fun.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: This is just entertainment. And you know, as long as
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: you pay me to do this, I'll do it. But it's, uh,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: it's of some value, I guess for you guys, if
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: you're interested in what I think about things. All right,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: we will start the first song that I was asked her.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: If you're not, I can't play you the music. Unfortunately,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: because I can't play you the music because of copyright issues.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: YouTube freaks out if I play other.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: People's songs on my show, So I can't play you,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: but you can go listen to them if you want.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 3: But the first the first.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: Song is won by Metallica, and I think this was
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: shaw'sbot who who asked me to review this a long
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: time ago. One by Metallica. Oh let me do this.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: I do have the lyrics for all the songs available here,
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: so you see you can you can see you can
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: see the lyrics will squall down them a little bit.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: But this is obviously it's Metallica, so it's it's it's
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: heavy metal.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: This is a real you know, it's an anti war
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 3: movie movie. It's an anti war song. It is based on.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: You know, in a what's it based on a play
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: or a book, on a novel? I guess Johnny got
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: Is Johnny got Is Done Gone by Adulton Trombo. It's
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: about a horrific case of somebody going to war, losing
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: his limbs and losing his face, and then what's the
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: point of being alive. It's an angry song. I mean,
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: this is true of most of the Metallica's music, right,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: They're angry, the rebellious, they're rising up against. It is
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: a song you know that is anti war and you know, look,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: you know we're talking about this is the voice of
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: this guy who's just had his whole body blown to smithereens.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: And to that extent, yeah, I mean, there's a lion
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: that says nothing is real but pain. Yeah, I get
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: that all he has is pain and it can't be stopped,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: and all he wants is to die.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: I mean hold my breath as I wish for death.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: Oh please God, wake me, And by waking he means
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: kill me, you know, put me into this other world.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: Back in the room. It's much too real in Pump's
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: life that I must feel but can't look forward to reveal.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 3: Look to the time when I'll live.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: Fed through the tube that sticks in me just like
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: a wartime novelty tight machines that make me be cut
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: this life off from me. I mean super depressing, uh,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: super angry. I mean I can't say I enjoy a
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: song like this.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: I get it.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: I get the anger, I get the frustration, I get
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: the wishing to kind of make it an anti war.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: This is this is what war does to people.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: But all these war anti war songs, they never what's
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: the alternative? You know, what causes war? Where does what
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: come from? There's never any of that. There's just yelling
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: and screaming and and and and the the the existential
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: angst that comes from this nine. In terms of the music,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: the melody is pretty simple. It's driven by a beat
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: like most rock and rock music and suddenly heavy metal.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: The voice is angry.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: So so the singer is definitely conveying the emotion of
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: the song, and they do that well. They are pretty
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: instrumentals throughout. So there's quite a few instrumentals that are
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: that have a melody and are quite pretty. But there's
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: a there's a voice over constantly from from the movie uh,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: based on on the novel.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 3: And and and that is always distracting.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: So anything pretty, anything you know, that that leads you
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: to a positive emotion, is constantly crushed by this voice over,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: by this reality of this horror that the song is conveying.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: So does it convey the horror? Well? Does it convey
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: the horrow? Well?
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so in that sense it conveys horror. Well, it's
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: not the kind of music I want to listen to,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: And it's not. It doesn't have any complexity.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 3: That's the other thing. It's angry, it's it.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: It conveys horror, but there's no complexity, there's no subtlety, there's.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: No varying emotion. There's one emotion throughout, anger.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: Even again, even when there's an attempt to something else,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: it gets it gets crowded out by this.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 3: Sound overlay that's played over it. That that makes it
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 3: go away.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm not I'm not a particular fan of Metallica.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 4: For among those reasons.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: Okay, we get another second song, also by About is
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: also a Oops is also a anti war song, but
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 3: this is from a completely different perspective.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: This anti war song is more political. This is an
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: anti war song from Black Sabbath. This is war Pigs,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: and this is a song against the generals and the
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: politicians and the culture that sends men to to die
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: and and blow subs up, and they benefit from from
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: the they.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 3: Make money off of it.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: You know, this is this is more about politics. This
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: is more about This is more from the hippies perspective.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: An anti war song from the sung by hippies who
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: have no clue about war and don't know anything about
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: war other than what they read about in the newspaper.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: You know, generals gathered in their masses just like witches
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: at black masters, evil minds, the plot destruction, sorcerer, death's
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: construction in the fields, the body's burning as the war
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: machine keeps turning death and hatred to mankind, poisoning their
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: brainwashed minds. Oh lord, yeah, now I get it, you know,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: the anti anti war theme. I'm all for anti war,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: but there has to be more than that and again
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: what dominates this is anger.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 3: Anger. It's dark, there's no outs, there's no solution. It's
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: very powerful.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: The music is power for the use of the electric guitar,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: the drums. It's very drum heavy, so there's a lot
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: of power. There's a lot of drama. Again, it's the
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: music fulfills the content of the song.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 3: That is.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: It's anti, it's you know, crushing, it's defeating, it's angry, it's.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: Politicians hide themselves away. They only they only started the war,
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: they should Why should they go out to fight?
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: They leave that to the poor.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, time will tell on their power minds, making war
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: just for fun, treating people just like pawns and chests.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: Wait till their judgment day comes? Yeah, ware does the
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: judgment day come from? I guess God. No, nobody knows.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: Right now in darkness. Now, in darkness, world stops turning
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: ashes where their body is burning. No more war pigs
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: have the power. Hand of God has struck the hour
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: they have judgment. God is calling on their knees. The
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: war pigs crawling, begging mercies for their sins.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: Satan laughing, spreading his wings. Oh Lord.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So no solutions nothing out of it. You know,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: there war pigs are crushed. But you know, so what, Yeah,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: you get the power, you get the anger. I mean,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: this is an era of hard rock and metallic rock
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: and all of that that is very angry and and
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: and and and very upset at the world and and
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: lots of social commentary.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 3: Uh and.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: You know, uh this is black sabotage thinking the British
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: band the fear of getting dragged into the war, and
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: and and now wanting to go to Vietnam. So this
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: is an anti Vietnam war. Uh So, there's no there's
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: no beauty here, there's no alternative, there's no esthetically pleasing elements. Yeah,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: there's there's a there's a melody there somewhere. Yes, there's
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: some great rifts in the final sequence, which is quite long, uh,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: I think five minutes, but it's quite pretty. But in
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: the end, again it's it's it's kids who are angry.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: They don't understand, they're ignorant and and they're just yelling
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: into a microphone in great frustration about the world in
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: which they live with no solutions and can see no beauty,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: can see no positives in the world around them. Uh
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: So I mean and and and the words are okay,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: but there's no there's no great sophistication in either the
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: previous lyrics or these lyrics.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 3: They're straightforward.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: Hate the man, hate pigs, hate the cops, hate hate war,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: hate the politicians, hate the generals. All right, get it
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: we get it right. I live through this period. This
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: is my music, if you will. This is the this
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: is the seventies, this is when all this music was written.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: This is this is what I lived through.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: Now we're going to something completely different, and I mean
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: completely different. This is John.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: This is from John, and this is this is Taylor Swift.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: And this is shake It Off. Shake It Off, which
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: is a huge hit. I don't know, sold five point
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: four million copies just in the first five years it
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: was out. This is twenty fourteen.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 3: Just huge.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, of course is huge. And I'm sorry, but
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: this is this is I don't know, this is nothing.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: There's nothing here. This is John Glue.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: John.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I'm pronouncing his name right, but he
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: put a lot of money into these songs. And I
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: feel horribly that I haven't given these reviews because it's
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: probably a year ago.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: It's at least a year since he did this. There
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: is there's just nothing in this song. It's upbeat, it's
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: super rhythmicle, it's bom boom, boom boom. There's a simple beat.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: I find it super boring. I can't. I can't listen.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: I mean I listened to the whole thing twice. I
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 3: can't really. I watched the video. Video is boring. I
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 3: get what's going on here, you know, shrug off your
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 3: your small problems.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: Come and come and party with me. Let's party. Don't
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: don't take life too seriously. Let's party. Let's let's have
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: a good time.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 3: Let's play. Play, play, play play. That's the lyrics, right,
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 3: I stay out too late? What is it? Got nothing?
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 3: Got nothing in my brain, that's true, Got nothing in
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 3: my brain. That's what people say. M M, that's what
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 3: people say. I got too many dates, haha, But I
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 3: can't make them stay at least that's what people say.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: M That's what people say. But I keep cruising. That is,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 3: she doesn't care about what people say. Can't stop, can't
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 3: stop moving.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: It's like I got this music in my mind saying
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna be all right.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: But this is candy.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: It's it's like eating a little bit of sugar. And
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: it's just there's no emotional depth here. There's nothing interesting
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: about this. And musically, I I don't know.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 3: If there was a music colleget on maybe I could
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: ask him. But there's just.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: Nothing musically of any value here other than uplifting in
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: a beat to dance to, you know, to shake, shake
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: your booty too.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: Boom boom boom. That's that's it, right, because the players
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: got to play, play play play.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, even even the lyrics are silly. They're just
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 3: not interesting. So I just, I mean, I just don't
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: get it. I don't get the peel. I don't.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: But this is true of everything. You know, if I
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: open the radio today and listen to songs, I just
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: find musically they just have nothing. It's just shallow, shallow musicality,
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: all musicality.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 3: So I didn't like it. I found it boring. It
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 3: was a I found this one boring, all right. Another
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: Taylor Swift song. Whoops, I don't want that.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: This one's called the Man. Now, this one, at least
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: there is a little bit more interesting. This is kind
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: of a feminist song. It's a song about if I
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: did all the things that I do. You know, if
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: I was a man, how would they be perceived that? Yeah,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: what could I get away with that I can't get away.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: With as a woman.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: If I was a man, so it has a little
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: bit b you know, more, I would be complex.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 3: I would be cool.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: They'd say I played the field before I found someone
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: to commit to.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 3: And they and that would be okay for me to do.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: Right as a woman, it's not okay for her to
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: do to play the field, but as a man, it
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: would be okay for her to do every congress I made.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: Would make more of a boss to you. I'd be
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: a feared leader. I'd be an alpha type when everyone
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: believes you. That's what's that like. I'm so sick of
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: running as fast as I can, wondering if I'd get
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: there quicker if I was a man. Right, so this
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: is kind of the thing, you know, would I advance more?
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: Would I progress more? Would I achieve more? If I
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: was a man.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of women think this who are
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: pursuing careers, and I'm so sick of them coming at
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: me again. Because if I was a man, then I'd
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 3: be the man. I'd be the man. I'd be the man.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 3: You know, think about her, You know how much she
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 3: was a tack for supposed you of permsecurity.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: If she was a man, she would never be a
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: tech for that right, you know, they'd say a hustle,
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: put in the work. They wouldn't shake their heads and
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: question how much of this I deserve?
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 3: What I was wearing, if I was.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: Rude, could all be separated from my good ideas and
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: power moves? So I get the sentiment of the song.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: I like the sentiment of the song. It is a
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: cleverness to it. I I you know, I like. I
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: like the lyrics generally, but again, there's no musical value here.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: There's just nothing of interest. It's just it's boring.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: Again. It's uplifting. You can dance to it, but it doesn't.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: It doesn't move me emotionally. It doesn't. It doesn't cause
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: me any kind of spiritual experience. I don't. And this
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 3: is the thing. I mean.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: The first songs I get that anger, and these songs
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: I get. I don't know, sugar, I don't get anything. Really,
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: it's uh, it's uh. It's shallow emotionally. And art needs
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: to move you. Art needs to needs to cause you
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: to experience something, to really experience.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 3: A strong a strong emoe and a strong sense of being,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 3: and and to take you into a different world and
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 3: take you into a different universe. This doesn't it? It
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 3: kind of I don't know a right more.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: This again from John? These all from John. This is
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: miss You I Miss You by Incabbus.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right, but incabus
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 3: all right. So this is a simple love song.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: It's really nice that lyrics are nice, nothing sophisticated.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 3: Here to see you when I wake up is a
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: gift I don't think could be real. I didn't think
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 3: could be real. I know that you feel the same
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: as I do. Is a threefold utopian dream. You do
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: something to me that I can't explain. So would I
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 3: be out of line if I said I miss you.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: I see your picture, I smell your skin on the
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: empty pillow next to mine. You have only been gone
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: ten days, but already I'm wasting away.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: I know I'll see you again where the fall or soon.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: But I need you to know that I care and
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 3: I miss you.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: Miss you, simple, straightforward, nothing sophisticated. Fine, I mean, not
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: great poetry, but okay, it's expressing a clear sentiment. The
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: thing I have with this song is I find the
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: music in the background and the style of the singing
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: completely in dissonance with the words. It doesn't come across
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: as romantic, it doesn't come across as emotional. The music
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: doesn't convey longing, it doesn't convey missing. The melody is weird,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: the singing style is weird. There's no emotion, it's stiff,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: it's cold. It completely fails as art in my view.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, whereas the first two songs, Metallic and Black
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: Sabbath get angry and you get anger, at least you
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: get what they want you to get. Yeah, the words
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: are saying one thing, longing, love, and the music does
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: not match it. There's no matching. Very frustrating, very frustrating.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: So I don't like Incabus because of this. And maybe
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: here's another So the music seems dissonant, in dissonance with
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: the topic. The melodies again weird, no emotion to it.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 3: And then the second song by them, so you also
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 3: had me do this song, which is called Warning Again.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: The lyrics lyrics are pretty good. They're about you know
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 3: what's so wrong with being happy?
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: Or there's something.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: About I suggest we learned to love ourselves before it's
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: made illegal. So bat your eyes go be otherworldly, count blessing,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: seduce a stranger. What's so wrong with being happy? Kudos
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: to those who see through sickness?
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Oops, over and over and over and over. Whatever.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: When when she woke in the morning, she knew that
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: her life had passed her by, and she called out
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: a warning, don't let her.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 3: Life pass you by.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: I suggest we love to learn, learn to love ourselves
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: before it's made illegal.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 3: When we learn, when will we learn? When we will change?
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 3: When will we change just in time to see it
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 3: all fall down? So it's a there's real pessimism here
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: as well as this call out to for for for
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 3: something positive. Those left standing will make millions writing books
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 3: on the way it should have been. Uh, when she
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 3: woke in the.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: Morning, she knew that her life had passed her by.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: We had that already, and then floating in this cosmic
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: floating Oops, let me get it floating in this cause jacuzzi,
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: we are like fogs oblivion to the water starting to boil.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: No one flitches, We all float face down when and
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: then back to uh, don't let life pass you by?
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: So it's it's it's a it's a.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 3: A call to take life and live it.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: And and an acceptance of the fact that that probably
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: won't happen, that life will pass you by. But again,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: I find the music to be incredibly dissonant, the singing
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: to be unemotional.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: I don't like the way he sings. I guess I
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: just don't like incabis.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: And I find it really, yeah, dissonance and and unconnected
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: and not satisfying at all, not not satisfying at all.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: So uh, the music is just the melodies.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: You need melody, and you need somewhat complex melody, you
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: need real melody, and you can't have al that's just
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: underlined by a beat.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 3: And that's all it is is beatpatpat people with a
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: I watched yesterday, I watched My wife and I watched
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: a documentary on Paul Simon. I mean Simon and Golfic
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: Cal had some unbelievably beautiful melodies, just gorgeous. Give me
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: a beautiful melody anyway, any day, any day, I mean
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: those melodies, and you know, sound of silence or what.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 3: Do you call it, Well, anyway.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: There were a bunch of them. Great and then Paul
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: Simon's career afterwards, just beautiful. I'll take a melody any day,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: over a beat, over a dance, over anger, over any
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: of these things. And you can convey real ideas. I mean,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: Simon Gothicker songs, whether the Sound of Silence or or
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: you know in the corner stands of boxer and a
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: fighter by his name the Boxer. I mean, there's real
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: ideas there, there's real meaning, there's there's a real existent
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: there's even existential angst in the boxer. But the melody
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: is so beautiful that you're intrigued, you're drawn in, and
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: it causes you to think about the song.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 3: You actually think about it. Same with Bob Dylan. You
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 3: can listen to Bob Dylan's song. There's poetry and there's
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: a beautiful melody that is carrying it, that's carrying the poetry,
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: and it causes you to think about it. It causes
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 3: you to actually engage with the woods that are being said.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 3: With incabus, the music is distancing me from the woods
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: that they're saying, so it's rejecting. All right.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: Finally, a classic I think this is again Shaw's about
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: This is Freebird by Leonard Skinner.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: You know this is a classic classic of classical rock
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 3: from the nineteen seventies. This is nineteen seventy three, and
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: this is a classic hippie song. This is about the
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 3: whole sense of freedom is really feeding from responsibility, Freedom
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: is really feeding from being attached to a person.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: Freedom is just be you know, this idea of just
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: leaving and just going. You know, if I leave here tomorrow,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: would you still remember me? For I must be traveling
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: on now because there's too many places I've got to see.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: If I stay here with you, girl, things just couldn't
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: be the same because I'm as free as a bird
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: now and this bird you cannot change, and the bird
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: you cannot change, and the bird you cannot change. Bye
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: bye girl. It's been a sweet love. Yeah, yeah, though
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: this feeling I can't change. But please don't take it
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: so badly.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: Because Lord knows I'm to blame. So, you know, simple lyrics,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: basically a hippie.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: Song about just wanting to wonder, just going out there
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: and wandering and leaving and not being committed and not
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: being attached and not the things, not the people, not
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: to anything really, So you know that that is a song. Now,
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: you know this is a song that. You know, it's
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: again a classic rock song. It's it's it's got a melody.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: It's it's melodic. You know, there's suddenly parts of it.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: It's pretty long, seven eight nine minutes, uh, but it's
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: quite enjoyable and melodic. It's got a a great five
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: minute guitar closing riff thing that is that is pretty cool. Uh,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: the electric guitar there, and and what it does with
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: the rhythm and the beat.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean it's a cool song. I once
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 3: in a while enjoy listening to it. Again.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: It's seventy three, so it was you know, I was twelve,
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: But it's it's kind of the music that I grew
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: up on.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 3: I enjoy it.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: I'm much prefer and it's gonna to uh to Black
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: Sabbath or to Metallica who are angry and yelling at you.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: This this has a certain beauty to it and a
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: sort of longing for this kind of freedom to it.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 3: You I get that.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: It's it's light, it's fun, and.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good. I mean again, I can't listen to too
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 3: much of this. There's not a lot of emotional complexity here.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 3: It's a single tone single, you know, emotion song.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: Even though it's long. It has those nice guitar riffs
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: which are fun to have. I mean, it's the kind
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: of music I can listen to periodically and enjoy, but
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: not something I can get a steady diet of.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 3: I would get bored with it. All right, those are
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 3: my music reviews, my song reviews.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: Next week, I hope to have Blackata Star Trek and
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: and or.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 3: At the very least done for you.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: So and if you want me to review more songs,
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: if you get any value out of this, it's what
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: one hundred dollars per song I think two point fifty
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: for an episode of a TV series, five hundred for
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: a movie or short book. So that's what it's like,
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: if you'd like, if we want to restart the reviewing
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: process now that I'm committed to getting through them and
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: getting actually getting actually done.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 3: So yeah, all right, thanks guys, Thanks to all of
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 3: you who contributed to that. That was a lot of fun.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: Let me just quickly remind you that at the end
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: of January January thirtieth, of February second, there will be
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: a conference a RAMS day weekend. Objective is conference and
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: Fort Mayas, Florida.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 3: I'll be there. Harry will be there, Alan.
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: Canna, Shshanna Milgramjeen Maroney, Peter Schwartz, Don Watkins. There'll be
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: a panel with me and Harry and Peter talking about how.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 3: Would we solve problems in alas of fair society like
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 3: roads and stuff the poor. I don't know whatever.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: You know, and so great event, lots of socializing, lots
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: of great people come and prices are going up December thirtieth.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: To sign up, you can do so at rans with
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 2: an asset D and rans day con all one word
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: rans day con dot v b v H dot com,
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: rans day rands day con dot THEBVH dot com. They
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: should come up with a simpler r L. I really
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: think that is a difficult you ol.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 3: All right, anyway, join us, Join us. It'll be a
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 3: lot of fun. All right, Back to Superchat, Back to
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: super Chat and then after dinner.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, one other thing, one other thing for those of
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: you online right now, My son is looking for work.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: Might as well use my show to see if anybody
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: has a job for him. See he's a software engineer.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: Uh and uh it lives in the LA area, so
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: it's particularly interested in some in the LA.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 3: Area or that he can do remotely.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for a software engineer, you can find
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: his details on LinkedIn. You go to LinkedIn, put in
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: Neve and Ivy Brook. I think he's the only an
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: iv Brook in the world, say n I V Brook.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: And yeah, if if, if you have a company, if
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: you have a project, if you have something that you
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: need a software engineer for, be great.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 3: You know, interview him.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: You know, don't don't hire him based on my would,
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: but at least give him a shot by interviewing him.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: Nick says, Neve really good guy. He is a really
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: really really really good guy. So I can say that
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: about about Neives. So, uh, check him out on LinkedIn,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: or if you if you don't know how to get
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: in touch your THEAM or something like that, just send
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: me an email that you're.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 3: On at your on bookshow dot com and I'll put
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 3: you in touch.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, if anybody has any kind of work related
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: to software engineer, then yeah, let me know, let him know.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: He just I just he worked. His last job was
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: at Amazon. He was a software engineer at Amazon for
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: what three years something like that, two three years. All right, Okay,
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: we're just gonna do these BIODA. We're gonna start with
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: twenty dollars.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 3: We're ninety one dollars short of the goal, so ninety
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 3: one dollars.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: I really want to make that five hundred dollars goal,
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: which we've only got three minutes to make. We've got
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: three minutes to get to ninety one, so somebody, somebody
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: needs to do a stick of one hundred bucks, A
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: question for one hundred bucks so we can get there quickly.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: But it would be great if you guys help me
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: get to the goal for the month, which is going
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: to require us to get at least the ninety one dollars,
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: if not a little bit more than that, probably one
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: hundred ninety one dollars to really get there. But ninety
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: one is a good start, so let's try to get
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: to the five hundred dollars we at four nine. Now,
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: I'd really really really appreciate it trade value for value,
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: in particular, if they're people out there, if there are
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: any sharks, any of you own book sharks who can
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: write or can do one hundred dollars or fifty dollars
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: or twenty dollars question, that would be amazing. Eight twenty dollars,
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: I mean for twenty dollars questions would get us a
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: long way there?
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 3: All right? Doctor?
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 4: Whoops? What did I just do? Undo? All right?
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: Doctor says, what do you say to someone who feels
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: guilty buying from Amazon marketplace because Amazon forces the smaller
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: partners to charge less?
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 3: Why does he care?
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: I mean the Amazon Marketplace, the smaller partners get an
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: opportunity to sell to millions of people, and if they
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: didn't get on Amazon, they couldn't access the customers that
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: they access, they would make a lot less money. And
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: by the way, they are there out of a choice.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: They could have tried to sell on other platforms that
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: could have tried to sell independently Amazon. They should be
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: so thankful to Amazon for providing them with this amazing
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: platform and with the payment mechanisms and all the benefits
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: you get from buying an Amazon to grow their customer
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: base and to grow their visibility in the world out there.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 3: So I think, you know, get a life, Get over it.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: Stop feeling sorry for people actually pursuing their own self
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: interest in maximizing their own lives by working with Amazon.
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: They're much happy about it than you are. And instead
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: of going out there and supporting them by buying stuff
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: from them. You want to penalize them by boykinting Amazon.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: It's completely upside down, completely upside down. And of course
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: they're not they're the only they're not forced to pay less.
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: They're expected to pay less or get paidless or whatever
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: it is. It's it's it's voluntary that nobody, nobody puts
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: a gun to the head. If they don't want to
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: work on Amazon, they can go on another. There's plenty
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: of other platforms. Lots of people sell an eBay, and
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: lots of people just sell directly.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 3: You don't have to be on Amazon. You choose to
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 3: be on Amazon, and there's.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: A cost to it, and you do the trade off
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: and you decide, yeah, Amazon is worth it.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: That's while John Amazon, and you want to penalize people
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 3: for that. That doesn't make any sense.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: Wes, Thank you, Wes. I watched the movie and Most
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: Violent Year yesterday based on your recommendation. Great film with
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: a businessman of integrity. Yeah, I really like that film.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 3: It's very undertoned, very kind of understated the way it's filmed,
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 3: the way it's acted, but really strong and really good
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 3: philosophically and and really good and positive positive portrayal of
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 3: a businessman. Thank you, Wes. I did a little review
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 3: of the movie.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: At some point, Andrew paraphrasing, ran, you don't adopt. Oh
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: we did that already, We did that. Yeah, all right,
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: another Andrew, would you say that we live in a
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 2: society of people more physically safe than in all of history,
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: yet whose feelings are diametrically opposite to that? And your
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: theory is that that is a result.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: Of placing emotions above reasons.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: We suddenly live in the most safe society in all
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: of human history. I mean, violent death is way down,
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: way down. In Europe, violent death is gone from about
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: forty per one hundred thousand, which was at about the
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: level of El Salvador before Boukele And did that so
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: just horrific forty p one hundred thousand to one per
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand. The United States is maybe four to five
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: for the six p one hundred thousand, depending exactly.
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 3: Where and when.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: But that's that's amazing progress. We feel bad partially because
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: we don't know we don't know history, We know nothing
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: about the past. We don't know how bad life could
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: be and how bad life has been. Uh, And because
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 2: we're overly emotional. But mostly it's because we're ignorant and
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: because our news a media, a culture emphasizes the negative
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: over and over and over again. This is part of
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: Christian guilt, right. It can be this good, something must
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: be wrong. We can't be this rich just and and
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: that's it. There has to be some bad stuff. And
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: then for the bad stuff is emphasized over and over
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: and over again, and elevated and repeated and over and
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 2: over again.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 3: So it is, it is.
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: You know, we live in a culture of negativity. And
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: partially it's I think, kind of a sense of guilt
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: that wait a minute, what did we do to deserve
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: all this?
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 3: And that's Christian guilt.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: It's also just a certain malevolence that our secular philosophy
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: has ingrained in us, and malevolence about the world and
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: malevolence about existence. All right, Lincoln says, Hi, Ron, I
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 2: am in a process of important discussion with my girlfriend,
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: and we're planning on getting married after college in three
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: years after we both finish undergrad following your advice and
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 2: sex and living together before marriage, which will be helpful.
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: The issue we're facing is education of potential future kids
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: after law school. Will make enough to send kids to
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: private school but they are almost all religious Catholic schools.
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: Do you believe the educational benefits and avoiding government propaganda
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: is worth putting up with religiosity of the private schools?
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: All right, So I'm not sure I completely understand all
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 2: the question. But you say here both finishing undergraduate, following
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: your advice on sex and living together before marriage, which
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: will be helpful.
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 3: Oh so you are following my advice on that.
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 4: Good.
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: So the only the question is about schools. I think
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: you have to go and and and evaluate.
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 3: The school on a concrete basis. I'm sure there will.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: There are Catholic schools out there that are pretty secular
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 2: and they're just good eigh quality schools. And of course
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 2: it depends on the alternative. How bad are the government
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: schools in the region. So every region, every school district
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: is going to be different. You also could look for
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: better secular private schools. They do exist. I know in
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 2: California they exist. But also that's not a guarantee. But
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: you just need to wherever you're going to live, you're
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: going to wherever you get jobs. I guess you're going
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 2: to have to go to the schools and evaluate them
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: when your kids are young before You've got plenty of
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: time to do all this, because first you know, you've
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: got pre k in kindergarten and for that and i'd
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: say through third grade you can probably rely on Montessori.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: Montessori is excellent. Again, you have to find the right
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: Montessori school. There's a lot of resources online and there
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: are a lot of objectives Montessori teachers you can consult
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: with and objectives Montessori experts, and I would just say,
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 2: give them a great Montesssori education at the early ages.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: And while you're doing that, figure out what the best school.
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 3: In your region is, and go and visit the Catholic
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 3: school and figure out how much this Catholic doesn't really
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 3: play a role to the extent that it does. Don't
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 3: send them there to the extent that it doesn't. Maybe
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 3: it's okay, So you've got to evaluate, and maybe the
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 3: government school is not that bad, and maybe they're private
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 3: schools that even better. You just have to evaluate the
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 3: particular schools in the particular region. But you're safe for
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 3: the first eight nine years because of Mona. Sorry Hakkun says,
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 3: giving you a concern about today's academic climate. What general
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 3: advice would you give for approaching undergrad? Also, since I
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 3: applied to Santa Clara University, what are your thoughts on
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 3: the school? I mean, I think the approach undergrad is first,
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 3: think about where you're going. It depends on your degree,
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 3: depends what you want to study. Find a university where
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 3: you think the real scholars there that will teach you.
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: Forget about politics, focus in. Is their real scholarship being
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: done there, is their real knowledge that they're going to
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 2: convey to you. That it's not right wing propaganda, left
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: wing propaganda or mainly left wing but could be right wing,
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 2: That it's not propaganda, it's not driven by some agenda,
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: but they are actually serious people who want to teach
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: you something. You might not agree with everything they teach you,
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: but that's okay. You're never gonna agree with everything. We
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 2: shouldn't agree with everything. So you want to go to
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 2: a place that's going to challenge you, that's going to expose.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 3: You to great literaate to the great thinkers, and and
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 3: and just approach undergraduate that way.
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 2: Go to school where that's going to happen. I don't
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: know that much about Santa Clara. It depends on what
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: degree you're getting. It has a decent business school. I
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: don't know about other departments and how good they are
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: and what they teach.
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 3: Even though it's a Catholic school, they have they only
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 3: have like.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: One theology class requirement, and taking a class in theology
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 2: is not a bad idea. You get to learn how
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: bad religion is from the religionists themselves.
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty campus. It's it's it's a nice place.
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: It's it's a really nice place to go to school.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 3: But I would say, really, look at who are the
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 3: professors going to be in the field that you're studying,
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 3: and do you think you've got something to learn from
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 3: them that should be the standard? Well, still a lot
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 3: of questions and not a lot of time, okay, Jennifer.
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: Isn't there difference between music that is complex, well played,
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: melodic but just doesn't float your boat in music that
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: is discord, repetitive.
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 3: Very simplistic.
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: There's a big difference between chopsticks and mozart. Yeah, absolutely,
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, uh, a huge difference.
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 3: And the challenge is to be able to tell the difference,
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 3: and for that you have to be exposed to it.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: You have to give it time. The complex ones. The
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: simple one is easy. You have to give it time.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to. You have to be patient with it,
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 3: you have to let it affect you. You have to
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 3: learn a.
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: Little bit about it, particularly when you talk about classical
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: and then when it comes to popular music. Yeah, you
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: have to be able to find that kind of popular
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: music and find complexity in popular music.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 3: There's not a lot of it. But at least what
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 3: I want from popular music is is beauty is melody.
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 3: That's what I want.
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: I don't need a beat, I don't need anger. I
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: don't need frustration, although maybe I did when I was
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 2: a teenager and related a little bit to it.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 3: But not a lot.
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: Like I love Pink Floyd, and I love Pink Floyd
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 2: primarily because they generate beautiful melodies. Yes there's anger there,
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: Yes there's frustration. Yes there's darkness, but there's just a
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 2: beautiful melody wish you were here, you know, shine on you,
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: crazy diamond. There's just they're just beautiful melodies, and I
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 2: find that inspiring.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 4: I find that inspiring.
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 3: Uh, let's see see. Yes, there's absolutely difference.
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: Objectively, I just don't want to make the claim that
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: I know objectively that I can differentiate between them at
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: particularly right, I can different to some extent Taylor swift, shallow, monotone,
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: Beethoven phenomenal, deep, complex.
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 3: But in between, I'm not sure I'm qualified. Andrew.
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: I think your answer to the following question is a
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: good way to connect between material and spiritual values. How
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 2: is it rational, rationally selfish act for you to advertise
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: for your son on your show when it's not when
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: it's not you getting the job? Yeah, I mean because somebody,
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: because you want to benefit those you love. You want
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: to help those you love, You want to you get you.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: You are spiritually rewarded by their success. Their happiness is
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 2: part of your happiness.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 3: You know you you want the people you love to
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 3: do well in life. It's a value to you.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: They represent in as human beings, they represent a value,
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: and therefore their success entertaining values as a value. So
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 2: and that's ritual now material. It doesn't add to my
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: bottom line. It's not that I have to send him,
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: you know, less money on a Monti basis. I don't
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: send him any money on a Monty basis. So it's
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: just that he will be happy, and therefore he's a value. Right,
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: it's a value, so and it's a spiritual value. Not
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: sure though that achieved the goal you were setting up, Lincoln.
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: I look forward to visiting Italy next March over spring
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 2: break for the first time since I was a child.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 2: I'll be visiting Rome, Florants and or Vieto. Should be
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: a fun week, admiring great art and history. I do
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 2: FITZI and Vatican museums, and will enjoy some wonderful food
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: and finally try wine.
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 3: All right, I'm not sure there's a question there.
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: I guess there's no question, but yeah, I mean, I'm
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 2: excited for you to experience Italy.
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 3: I mean that is great. That is really really amazing. Okay,
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 3: b Bradley, you explained the difference between status and hierarchy
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 3: beautifully and connected it to self esteem and firsthand self worth.
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 3: Many pieces finally clicked for me. Thank you.
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: Sex, status and self esteem is a topic many struggle with. Yeah,
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's right, and I did that
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: in my interview with the What Is It Stitch and
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: Adam on that show. I posted that interview up on
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: my channel and that was a good exchange and they
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: pushed me on it, which gave me an opportunity to
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: say stuff I haven't really said anywhere else because I've
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 2: never thought in terms of status. It wasn't a concern,
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: and you guys haven't asked me about it. But that
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: would make a good show on the relationship between status
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 2: hierarchy and self esteem and egoism and the relationship between
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: all those and you know, so I really think that exchange, Yeah,
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: that was really valuable. I'm glad you enjoyed it and
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 2: benefited from it. Maybe maybe we should have Christian slice
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: that exchange out and the post it under something like status,
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: just just a separate video. I'll do that, okay, Andrew
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: says probab to be a YBS member. I was going
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: to ask if one if one can claim that reason
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 2: is morality, but then thought that would emit action choice thoughts.
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, reason is the cardinal value under morality.
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 2: But but but it's the but you have to implied
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: in that is that you will act on the reason.
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: It's not just hypothetical but reason and the action that
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: it requires, the actions in reality it requires all morality. Yes,
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 2: the application of reason to action is morality is being
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 2: mall not moraly, is being mall Okay Lincoln Again, I've
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: noticed anti Semitism being pretty common among the anti Federal Reserve,
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 2: globe gold bug market crash predictions subset a fani a
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: financial especially recently. I think these deserve to be taken
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: somewhat seriously given the debt and market valuation. Any advice
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: on identifying the smart ones in finance, Oh God, I
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 3: You know, the.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: Smart ones in finance are not going to be telling
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: you a simplistic story about the world. Then are going
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: to be declaring every year there's going to be a crash.
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: Then I'm going to be telling you, you know that
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 2: that the world that the only bad You know that
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 2: the only thing we're bad in the world is that
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: we're not in a gold standard. I think you want
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: uh thinkers, people who think and view the world in
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: complexity and see the value of productive activity and see
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 2: America as being productive and see the value in the
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: stock market, and don't have a one dimensional view of
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: the world out there.
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 3: Michael is more lost by indecision than wrong decision. M
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know the tool related.
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: I think because indecision leads them because you have to
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: decide in one in the end of the day, decisions
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 2: have to be made. In decision leads to bad decision
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 2: or wrong decisions. I don't know, but indecision is a big,
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: big issue, I think, And Geffney says, as opposed to
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 2: the anti Semitic loans on Twitter, these are at least
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 2: finance guys.
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 3: But there's still loons.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: There's still a looney element to them, and the very
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: fact that Dany Semitic rules them out as people I
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 2: would take any financial advice from all Right, Michael, is
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: it actually a good thing millennials are getting married at
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 2: lower rates, they're being more selfish and not settling for
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 2: somebody they don't love, justice, society, approval and status. I mean,
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: it depends why they're doing it. So I don't know
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: why they're doing it. I don't know why they're getting
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 2: married so late. If it's for that reason, if it's
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: because they don't want to settle, if it's because they
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: want to be more mature when they make the decision,
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 2: then sure it's a good thing. But if it's for
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: other reasons, because they're being hedonistic, or they're being shallow.
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 3: Or.
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 2: They've got ridiculous standards, or a bunch of different things.
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: If they're being irrational about it, then no, then it's
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 2: not good. So it really depends on why. And I
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: don't know enough millennials to be able to tell you why.
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, don't get married for the sake
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: of getting married. Get married because for real reason, real spark.
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: Was it second handed? When Brando in on the Waterfront
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: says he could have had class, could have been somebody
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: he needed to be boxing champ in order to do this,
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 2: is it's second handed? No, I don't think it's second handed.
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, the point is not I could have been
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: liked by the people.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 3: It's it's that I could have achieved something in life.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 3: He I mean, part of the tragedy of the movie is.
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 2: That he doesn't do what he originally wants to do,
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: what he can actually achieve in and he, in a sense,
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: he settles. And and so I think it's it's it's
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's second handed to one to achieve. Now,
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 2: maybe the achievement is reflected in a kind of a
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 2: second handedness of I could have been somebody to some
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 2: but it could have been somebody to myself.
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 3: I could have had.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 2: Class, which represents I could have been more than I
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 2: am now. So I think he's striving to achieve something.
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 2: He's striving to achieve which I don't think could have
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 2: been a contender. I don't think that's second handed. I
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 2: think that's you know, he wanted to be a box.
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 2: He wanted to contend and he didn't. And he didn't
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 2: want to do it because people would love him. He
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: wanted to do it because he would gain self respect
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: from it, self esteem from it.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 3: Tom Start stoppad died. Did you like any of his plays?
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 2: I have to admit that I haven't seen any of
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: his plays. I'm looking at a list of them just
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 2: to see if dodge my memory. But I don't think
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 2: i've seen his plays.
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 3: Sadly, it seems like, you know, theater I'm not strong in,
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 3: and the theater I know something.
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 2: About is old. It's not more modern. So I wish
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: i'd I've heard good things. I wish I've seen somehow
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: a pinta, mainly because they were made into movies and
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 2: I saw them as movies. But I haven't seen Tom
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 2: Stop Started Sadly, I'm ignorant. Lincoln. I was ten when
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 2: I rejected faith, when I was told to my told
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 2: by my religious teacher bread and wine became the literal
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: body and blood of Christ. Yeah, that would turn you off,
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 2: even if you I mean makes you accounnibal kind of.
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 3: It's a little weird, John.
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: The Byzantines effectively invented hospitals and were motivated by Christian
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 2: principles of charity. Also had the first separation of corpor
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: of conjoined twins.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 3: A few things. One, charity is not important.
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think charity is an important virtue, so I
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: don't think that it makes them any more civilized. Again,
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 2: I don't agree with you about hospitals, right, I mean,
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: there was the equivalent of hospitals in Greece.
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 3: They didn't call them hospitals. There was the equivalent of
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 3: hospitals in the Muslim world.
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: And now I don't know if that comes with four
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: Buzantines or post business TEMs. I'd have to go research hospitals.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 2: But even if they invented hospitals doesn't really change anything.
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 3: First separation of conjoined twins great, right, I mean, the
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 3: businessing empire survived for over a thousand years, over thousand
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 3: years from I don't know to sorry four hundred.
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 2: Let's just round it out to four hundred AD to
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 2: fourteen hundred AD over a thousand years.
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 3: And that's their achievements, not much, not much.
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: And the hospitals that they had, the medicine that they
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 2: were practicing in the hospitals was Greek or Muslim. Very
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: little came from them themselves. The great treatise on medicine
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 2: were written by Greeks or by Muslims. John, do you
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: dispute Ran cheated on her husband and this caused him
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 2: to drink too much? What did the archives say about
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 2: if about Frank's drinking.
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 3: I do dispute that Ran cheated on her husband. To
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 3: cheat means to lie, to deceive, to do it behind
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 3: somebody's back. She didn't cheat on him. She slept with
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 3: another man, but told him she was sleeping with another man.
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: He knew about it, so that is not cheating. But
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 2: do I dispute that she slept with another man while
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: she was married?
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 3: No, I don't.
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 2: I consider it. I actually considered it. One of the
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 2: things I like about Nyron rant that she did that.
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 2: You know, as I've said in the past, she was.
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 3: A radical, breakthrough, breakthrough thinker, and that she would be
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 3: conventional when it comes to sex and relationships would be shocking,
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 3: So she experimented.
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: She tried something. She thought she was in love with
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 2: two men at the same time. That's radical and unusual,
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: and she acted on it. I don't see that as
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 2: a vice at all. I see that as incredibly courageous.
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 2: It didn't work out, which I think it doesn't work out.
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 3: Most of the time. It doesn't work out.
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: It's not something can be done very easily, if at all.
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 2: Bet she tried good for her. Did that cause him
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: to drink too much? I know, I know of no
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 2: evidence to suggest that. I don't know that he drank
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 2: too much. The evidence is very mixed on that. There
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: are plenty of people who say that he didn't drink
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 2: that much. That is that the people who want to
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 2: smear or iron Rand say that he did. Other people
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 2: have said that he didn't a drink, and I've no
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 2: reason to believe that that is what caused him to
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 2: drink too much, and.
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 3: Neither of you.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 2: So you're getting it as secondhanded from people you know
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 2: antagonistic iron Rand, and the fact that you place any
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 2: particularly importance on that is striking. I don't place much
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 2: important on it. Like Leonard Peakoff, who hung out with
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 2: iron Ran during those years, maybe more than anybody denies
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 2: that he drank. Mary answer is, who is very close
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: to iron Ran during those years, denied the Frank drink.
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 3: You know, Harry binswrong.
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if Harry was there when Frank
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 2: was around as much, but certainly Mary an Sewers and
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 2: Leonard were there all the time and denied it. So
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: I don't consider her sleeping with another man while she
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: was married as a model flaw. It was a mistake,
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 2: but I don't consider it the mail flaw.
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 4: All right, let's see.
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 2: Oh oh great, the right loves hating on secular Chris Christmas.
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 2: But I find it amazing we turned a holiday about
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: worshiping a destructive faith into celebrating wealth and our prosperity
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: as a nation. Yeah, it's a beautiful holiday, in a wonderful, wonderful.
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 3: Secular holiday the way it's practiced in the US.
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 2: Oliver, I read a non partisan, unique group with capitalist
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 2: center right values. I lead a non partisan UNI group
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 2: with capitalist center right values as an objective.
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 3: Is now I'm unsure I can still represent it, can I?
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 4: Well?
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was secular it's secular center right, it's capitalist,
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 2: it's not partisan.
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't know how religious it is. But
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 3: but why not? Hey, by the way, what why don't
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 3: you invite me to come and give a talk to
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 3: your group and and create a create an event around.
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 2: It in in uh in Sweden. We've talked about this, Oliver.
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 3: So I don't know.
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 2: I'd have to know more about the what that means
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 2: to lead it. That is, to what extent are you
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 2: expressing ideas? Are forced to express ideas? Or sanctioning ideas
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 2: you really are posted?
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 3: I mean we I'd need a lot more concrete to
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 3: figure that out. If if you really feel like you're
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 3: violining your integrity, then yeah, you shouldn't lead the group.
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 3: Maybe stay a member without leading it.
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 3: By the way, you should invite me to give a talk?
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 3: All right? Uh's a s.
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 2: A k U fan Obama deportations three million and Trump
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 2: poet point six million. What's the difference between them in
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 2: this one area? PS, I'm not a Trump fan. I
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 2: mean the big difference is that Obama basically deported them
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 2: at the border.
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 3: They crossed the border and they.
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 2: Were detained and immediately turned around and deported back or
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 2: put in planes and sent back or whatever it was.
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 3: He didn't send ice to hunt people down in their workplace.
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 3: Ice didn't roam the streets in little gangs with faces covered,
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 3: fully armed and bulletproof vests and arrest people at their workplace.
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: There's a big difference between that. So the numbers might
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 2: not be reflecting it. But that's because Trump has sealed
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 2: the border. People aren't crossing to send back, so he
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 2: has to in order to get his numbers up. He
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 2: has to literally go to people's workplaces and drag them
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 2: out of there, which is something Obama did very little of.
• 2:25:57
  Speaker 2: That's the difference, all right, Again, s a Q tried
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 2: the same question about Islam. Google blocked try to hide
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 2: the fact that it's about Islam, so misspell Islam. Do
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 2: things like that to try to get the question across Andrew.
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 2: It does great damage to the psyche to think that
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 2: love is impractical and therefore is irrational. Absolutely, it destroys
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 2: the capacity to love. It destroys the motivation to go
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 2: find love because it's irrational.
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 3: Saq.
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 2: If a country approves jailing, unaliving, killing apostates, gaze cheetahs
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 2: and the immigrants from there, are saying they will outbreed
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: outvote us. Is it wrong to hold immigration from from
• 2:26:50
  Speaker 2: the well not in and of itself right. They haven't
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 2: said that they want Just because the country approves a
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 2: jailing apostates and gays and cheetahs doesn't mean that these
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 2: particular people believe in jailing those people. And look, a
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 2: West that is confident in its values, a West and
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 2: inconfident in its.
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 3: Ability to assimilate people who.
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 2: Disagree with it, doesn't worry about these things because these
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 2: people will be assimilated. They might come over thinking they
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 2: still hold those values, but they are going to be
• 2:27:25
  Speaker 2: They're going to be dissuaded for that within one generation
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 2: by this assimilating culture. So the only reason this is
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 2: an issue is because our culture is so timid and afraid.
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 2: But if you want to complain about something, complain not
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 2: about the immigrants.
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 3: Complain about the timidity and the fear of our culture.
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 2: Second, to the extent that we are willing to declare
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 2: that these people are at war with us because they
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 2: reject our civilization, want to turn it upside down, and
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 2: are willing to use violence in order to attain that,
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: to the extent that were willing to clare Islamism an
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 2: enemy ideology, then the people who hold an Islamist perspective
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 2: could be banned from immigrating. They're holding the ideology of
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 2: the enemy. But that requires us to again have the
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 2: courage and the forthright to say that the enemy and
• 2:28:20
  Speaker 2: then ban them.
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 3: But short of.
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 2: Any of that, on what basis are you gonna stop
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 2: people from emigrating real spac Why but why did hippies
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 2: replace Western civilization for indigenous civilization?
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 3: Also does that.
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 2: Country song rich Man of Richmond dovetail with alt right?
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 3: Why did the hyppies.
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 2: Replace Western civilization for digenous civilization? Because they worship the primitive.
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 2: They worship the anti civilization they and it's not there
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 2: is no suscene as indigenous civilization. For the most part,
• 2:28:59
  Speaker 2: it's indigenous whatever, it's indigenous societies, but there's no civilization there.
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 2: It's because they worshiped the primitive and they went the
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 2: direction of the primitive towards the primitive. I did a
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 2: whole analysis of Richmond and Richmond of Richmond when it
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 2: came out, and yes, at Dovestales with the grievance mentality
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 2: of the ult right, but also of the left. So
• 2:29:22
  Speaker 2: It's a song that fits both left and right. It's
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 2: all about grievance. It's all about other people's faults. It's
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 2: all about the financiers, the bad guys, the people, the intellectuals.
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 2: It's all about It's all about grievance. It's all about
• 2:29:36
  Speaker 2: a rejection of you know, the people who being successful.
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna do these four questions and I'm
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 2: out of here, Lincoln. I nearly went to Santa Clara,
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 2: wonderful school, but Arizona wonderful philosophy, politics and economics program
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 2: and low cost made difference. Yes, Arizona has a really
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 2: good PP and E program. Neo, you should be separating
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 2: these kinds of shows so it's easier to find later
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 2: on in playlist and label them in parts.
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 3: I will.
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 2: Once I get a few of these shows, I will
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 2: separate into playlists. I'll create playlists, although very few people
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 2: use the playlist's feature in YouTube unfortunately. SAQ, are you
• 2:30:22
  Speaker 2: familiar with Raymond Ibrahim, author historian. I think on some
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 2: Crusade books, the Two Swords of Christ and if so,
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 2: is he worth reading? No, I'm not familiar with them.
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 2: I haven't read books on the crusade. I would like to,
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 2: but I haven't yet gotten it. It's part of my
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 2: big history reading. It's on my Big History reading list. Drin,
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 2: you are very good on Adam's show.
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 3: You should do these interviews more often to get challenging
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 3: questions irresponding to them. That's when you excel. Yeah, I
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 3: mean I need to be invited, right. You should encourage
• 2:31:01
  Speaker 3: show hosts to invite me on their shows.
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 2: S AQ, do you think that we should at this
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: point to klay Islam an enemy and ban it. I'm
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 2: in Canada, so might be different than the United States,
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 2: but we are at that point. No, I don't think
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 2: you should declare Islam and enemy. You should to clay
• 2:31:16
  Speaker 2: islam mists, people who want to use Islam to convertual culture,
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 2: people who want to use Islam with violence. They should
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 2: be a band. We should declare war on them, not
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 2: an Islam quad religion on Islam, mysts qua ideology within
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 2: the religion. And yes, I've been saying that since two
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 2: thousand and one, that is for twenty five years, four years,
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 2: twenty four years.
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 3: Andrew.
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 2: When I was young, I was proud to be a
• 2:31:49
  Speaker 2: Jew in a real intellectual, young male sense, I valued
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 2: being a minority, qua minority, and a corresponding hostility towards
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 2: the majority. What mystical driven mistake and in what mystical
• 2:32:03
  Speaker 2: driven mistake and emotions? Yes, very I mean it's it's
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 2: you know, but it's also during viltruism, there's a sudden
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 2: you get a certain thrill from being persecuted for being
• 2:32:19
  Speaker 2: a persecuted minority. I remember we used to compete as
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 2: kids whose dad was poorer. Like you gained virtue by
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 2: coming from a poorer family. You gain virtue by being
• 2:32:31
  Speaker 2: some kind of poor, a victim suffering in some way.
• 2:32:35
  Speaker 2: The more you suffer, the more virtue you get. And
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 2: I think that is part of the pride of being
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 2: uh an oppressed minority, a victim victim. All right, Lincoln says,
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 2: in the process of working with the school's PP and
• 2:32:52
  Speaker 2: a program to find a date for you to speak
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 2: on campus about capitalism, hopefully we can find a date soon.
• 2:32:57
  Speaker 2: I hope so that would be That would be exciting.
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 2: I haven't given a talk at Arizona State. This is
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 2: Arizona State.
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 3: I think in a very long time that'll be cool.
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 2: All right, guys, have to run for dinner. I will
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 2: see you all tomorrow twice. Two shows tomorrow have you
• 2:33:15
  Speaker 2: been swaying It?
• 2:33:15
  Speaker 3: In the evening and a regular news show at two pm.
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 2: East coastin So two shows tomorrow, see you guys tomorrow.
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 2: This is Oh, this is University Arizona and Tucson. Haven't
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 2: been in University of Arizona in Tucson in a long time,
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 2: so that would be That would be fun. That'll be great.
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to that. I didn't know they had
• 2:33:35
  Speaker 2: a good PP and E program. You'll have to tell
• 2:33:37
  Speaker 2: me more about it. Bye, everybody, see you soon.