Latest / Caught on the Mike... / Brendan Abernathy

Transcript

Brendan Abernathy · Caught on the Mike...

• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Microsoft.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to speak with my next guest.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's a native Georgian, now living in Los Angeles.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's a singer-songwriter.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Some of you might have learned about him through a viral moment a couple of months back, but there's a lot more to his story than what is on the surface.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Today, I am glad to welcome Brendan Abernathy to the show.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: How the heck are you, my friend?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Howdy, Mike.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm great.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's been an awesome day.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Weather is beautiful.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've been uh editing videos as musical artists do.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Musical artists and podcasters, I cannot tell you how many hours a week I spend editing episodes.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've got like four backlogged right now.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And are you doing a lot of like shopping and stuff too?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I and I hosted a podcast like six years ago, and I interviewed people that were like living their dream today, like making their dream happen in the present moment instead of waiting for it to come to them.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it, and I had some amazing conversations, but the editing sent me, I just I I couldn't keep doing it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it did like 20 episodes, and then so I I admire you and I applaud you for your well.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, man.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just crossed 200 episodes, I've been doing it for five years, but I will tell you um the first four years that I did it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I did it audio only, and that was so much easier to edit than going video, but my growth has come from the video in the last year.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's a double-sided coin, man, no matter which way you cut it.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Has it been from like sh is that because of short form stuff, or is it because of YouTube, or why has it grown so much with video?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I it's the long form video in it's the long form interviews, realistically.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think, you know, as you probably are aware, being a former podcaster yourself, there's a different sense of emotion and a different sense of authenticity that can be expressed when you're actually watching somebody talk about something as opposed to just listening to it.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think I understand it as a musician more than anything, right?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've done, I've played uh over 700 live shows, and so the for me that's what it's all about is like connecting with people.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's even an interesting like language lost between being in the room with someone and seeing it through a screen.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I actually know that because of yeah, how the internet perceives my live performances versus how versus how I mean pretty much everyone who comes to the live performances perceives the live performances.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's yeah, I think as much as we can retain communicatively is a major win for um communicating our essence.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know what's it's funny, uh, you know, this afternoon I watched a lot of your short term your short form videos, and it seems like you've really built a culture around these intimate performances, and I really want to get into that, get into the weeds of that, but let's kind of take a step backwards first and let's start at the beginning.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Where did your love of music first take root?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when did you realize that this was something that you wanted to chase full-time?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I barely even remember being really into music, but my parents tell me that I was like incredibly drawn to share and like veggie tales in the backseat of the of the minivan, and I was raised on country music, kicks 1015 in Atlanta.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: We had a radio station called Eagle 106.7 back when I was a kid, yeah.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had like 971 the river, which was just like classic rock.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was really raised on like the Eagles and James Taylor and Alan Jackson, Garth Brooks, George Strait, just like music that most kids from Georgia would listen to.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I was super into Toby Keith at a young age.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the real artist that just bewitched me for the first time was Jimmy Buffett.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, when I was probably three or four years old.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a guy singing about cheeseburgers in paradise, that'll get you as a kid.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um I used to make these, I wish I had one with me, but I used to make these like album covers.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So my first album has no music, but it's it's called Pickle Juice, and I'm in like a Hawaiian shirt, and I was just like leaning into the Jimmy Buffett thing.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Career Day as a kindergartner, I showed up as Jimmy Buffett.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I got my first guitar when I was six because I wanted to be like Jimmy Buffett.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my first and second concert were both Jimmy Buffett concerts.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I was a major parrot head as like an elementary schooler.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh I started learning guitar, I took lessons.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I definitely loved it, but growing up in Georgia, sports are king.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I still love sports to this day.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge football fan, I'm a huge baseball fan.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I know the game just started.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to get that on in a bit.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And like I I mean, I love sports.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up very competitive, I grew up in a competitive family.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I went to a school where athletics were definitely prioritized, I think, and your social hierarchy was determined on where you were picked on the uh pick-up football field on during recess at playground, like probably most kids in the South.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I realized that music was different and it wasn't cool, and so I stopped playing when I was about eight.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd only gotten about six years of guitar, or sorry, two years of guitar in at that point.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh then when I was 10, I was riding around listening to one of those two country stations.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it might have even been 94.9 the bull at that point because we had three different stations.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know why I'm talking about radio so much.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is most and uh Taylor Swift's first ever song, Tim McGraw, came on, and something about it just like bewitched me.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh later I heard her talking about writing music.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote my first song because of that.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was probably 11 or 12 when that happened, and then that's how I processed life all the way through middle school and high school.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got the poster back there.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remain a big fan.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and I was raised on music like ABBA and stuff too.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I I mean, I've just always been around my parents have good music taste, I think, and so I've always been around good music, and I've always been drawn to songwriters, and uh once I learned that people wrote the songs that I was hearing, I I just wanted to do that in some capacity.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, you know, there's not a whole lot of difference between the the South and the rural Midwest as far as stereotyping and like because I was a in a small town in Iowa and it was like it was hard wanting to be the band guy in a town full of jocks.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, man, I've got to assimilate into sports because I can't be the guy that's hauling his guitar like Richie Vallins all over the place, you know?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so did you were you in like rock bands and stuff?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've I've played in everything from like ska bands to metal bands to doing the singer-songwriter thing myself.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Incredible.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then what sports did you play?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Basketball, but I did mostly martial arts, and it's because I moved around so much as a kid.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was the new kid in school constantly.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Spent most of my life uh living in big cities until high school.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then high school I moved to this town of 1,500 people.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you want to talk about reverse culture shock, you know.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's it called?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the the town I was from?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Lennox, Iowa.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was texting some of my friends, posted that they were on tour and they're saying Iowa right now.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I said that's unfortunate.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I live in Nebraska now, and you know what's funny?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I get so much Iowa hate that I'm like, well, I've been living in Nebraska long enough that I I kind of cite myself as being a native Nebraskan.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Are you in like Lincoln or Yep, that's exactly where I'm at.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in Omaha for 15 years and then I moved to Lincoln not too long ago.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Massive Runzas guy.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's a Runza guy.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes!
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, for Runsas.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, indeed.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: What's the what's the uh tell us about the tell us about the uh below zero deal?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So like during the winter time, that uh runza will sell you a runza for I I think however many cents below zero it is.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's negative six, you're getting a runza for six cents, but I think you have to buy something else to it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, yeah, we we live for those freezing days, but I'll tell you, as much as I love runza, I hardly order runzas because they just don't sit well in my stomach.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't even know what a runza is, but I do know that the one time I had a runza, it uh did not sit long.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say that.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's bavarian, like it's like it's like cabbage and and ground beef and yeah, it's it's definitely definitely unique.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, Nebraska is an interesting state.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of the most cultic state I've ever been up to, maybe.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all have did you know you have a Nebraska society in like every state?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm about to go to Estes Park, Colorado, like tomorrow.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm leaving for Estes Park, Colorado, and there's a Nebraska Corn Huskers store in Estes Park on the square.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Live.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: You want to talk about Colts, University of Nebraska football, baby.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Dylan Riola, Patrick Mahomes Jr.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all over that.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all over that.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all over that beef, dude.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm he I'm a Georgia fan, so Dylan Riola's Chat GPT poem really rubbed me the wrong way when he announced uh decommitment for all that NIL money.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: We won't get into that though.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go back to music.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I can I can talk.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, let's let's get right to it.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: You've played over 700 plus shows, including you know, a period of time where you lived in your car for a while.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: What did that grind teach you about yourself and how did it shape the artist that you've become?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: A majority of those shows were definitely to small groups of people, so probably between 30 and 75 people.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're playing to that many people, you really I had to learn how to genuinely connect with every person in the room.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I really learned through that is that I think if I have a gift as an artist, my gift is that I see people well and I make them feel seen and I make them feel like they belong in the room with me as much as I belong in the room with them, and that we're almost friends like very quickly.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a really fun thing that I get to now carry into rock clubs and venues and and hopefully theaters and larger venues and whatever, because I I genuinely think that because my because 150 of my first 200 shows were socially distanced in parks and people's backyards in the middle of the pandemic, I truly began to see performance as a service and not as necessarily like a spotlight on me, but more as like an opportunity to take on the emotions that people are feeling and open up a door for them to understand them in a different way.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then that leads to like a really cool kind of feeling in the room and really like an awesome unity.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm really proud.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that what I often hear about my shows is that all the people are really kind and that for however long my set was, people like really forgot where they were and like didn't even really think about their phones, and I think that's a huge, huge win.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: So living out of my car really taught me to live on a little.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was eating like Burger King four for four, Wendy's four for four.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was getting the pizza making it last for three days.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sleeping on people's couches taught me to like really care about people's story and that I'm not the main character, but rather that I'm a supporting character and everyone else gets to be the main character.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I step on stage, I mean de facto you are the main character on stage, but it's really just a continuation of those other two things and learning that like we're all in this thing together, and so the opportunity to really serve from the stage, I think rooted from playing in backyards and parks for so many shows at the beginning of this thing.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the uh the acts of servitude or the feeling of servitude whenever you are in the position that you're in, or even the position that I'm in, because I feel the same way.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I, you know, whenever I think about why I do this podcast, I I think, you know, I'm really the whole intent after it's all said and done is give people a sense of escapism and connect with people such as yourself and such as somebody that might be watching this or listening to it after the fact and building relationship outward and using that as an opportunity to create community and make the world a better place.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I had a police officer one time, he came to my house because of a noise complaint, and uh it's when I was playing in rock bands, and uh, you know, the one thing he suggested to me is like, why don't you go introduce yourself to every single one of your neighbors?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because the first the best thing that you can do is if you invest in somebody else, they're gonna invest in you back.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of glean that from how you explained your show performance experience.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I've I can tell you I've had a lot of cops shut down my house shows for sure.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time, honestly, most of the cops would show up and be like, Why did I get called to this?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is like a great wholesome event.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um But no, you're right.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think what's the Benjamin Franklin thing?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you want to make someone your friend, like ask them to do a favor for you.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm very unafraid to ask for favors.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I've slept on over a thousand couches, and so the funny thing is once I started paying rent somewhere, I really longed to host people.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So like I've been on tour for the last two and a half weeks, and I had a friend staying here while I was gone for free.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's like yeah, I don't know.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the main thing I feel like I'm at a very like platitude level right now answering your question.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: But to get like really specific, um, I really just learned that like everyone's doing their best and no one has any idea what they're doing.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that has affected my art because I'm not I don't know what I'm doing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm just writing about what I feel, and I'm not I'm not trying to like write by a formula anymore, I'm not trying to write for a certain sound anymore.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really just writing what I feel and then putting it out.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and I've really tried to detach myself from results too, because I mean I've released 50-something songs and four full projects, and none of them have changed my life.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you've just kind I think as a creative, I've I've really learned to intrinsically love what I do and love what I'm making.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's impacting one person or two people or whatever, I think that's worth trying to continue on as long as I can.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with that.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's let's uh let's talk about some life impacting moments.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the viral whirlwind.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh why don't you take us back to that moment when your performance of Married in a Year suddenly blew up online?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: What was that experience like from your side of the screen?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh brutal, totally brutal.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I went to a concert last night of an artist I've listened to for a few years, and like I really love her music.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to meet her after, and and she was like, Congrats on everything, like you're crushing it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's so cool to see you blowing up.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, Congrats.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was I was like the laughing stock of the internet.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why that's a congrats.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, You're like, you're who I look up to, and she was like, Nah, you should hear how negative I am to myself, too.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's what's really unfortunate about pursuing music right now is that we're all climbing this invisible mountain and we don't really know where we're going.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when the video went viral, it felt like the mountain became visible for a couple weeks and I could see the peak and I could see my dreams and I could see everything I hoped for.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, down where I was, I was literally just getting attacks by like a hundred thousand people slandering my name and who didn't understand who I am and anything.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and because I've done all those live shows, I didn't really care that much about the negativity.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was so excited about finally being able to see like a route to my dreams.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then when everything kind of died down and it didn't turn into um really like super substantial growth in um record sales or ticket sales or merch sales or like anything that actually puts food on the table.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um when there wasn't like a direct A to B to that, it it was definitely very disorienting and um kind of depressing, to be honest.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think I think every artist thinks they want to go viral, and that's like what everyone's posting for, working for.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I guess if I can be evidence of anything, it's it's not it's not great.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh granted I didn't go like positively viral, but the value is in connecting with fans on the road, and the value is in writing songs, and the value is in those DMs you get from people that your song changed their life or saved their life or whatever.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like the the whole experience taught you a new way to look at vulnerability in the internet age?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I'm like a huge journaler.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've filled up three journals since the day it went viral, which is definitely like the highest volume I've ever done.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've really been trying to grapple with okay, who I've gone, I'm going through this, so like I don't want it to be wasted.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Who who am I becoming through this?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: How am I changing?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: How am I becoming better?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I definitely think I have like a newfound superpower that I just don't give a shit.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you can say whatever you want to about me, and I'm probably I I was uh I was getting on an Amtrak train to go from DC to New York with all my bags.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: I had like five bags, which is totally illegal on Amtrak, and I'm like trying to load them all on on this like small stop, and I'm getting so many dirty looks.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't say this, but I was thinking like, y'all can say anything you want to me.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've already read it.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't say anything I have not already read about myself uh from a two-follower account.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So like I've I don't know.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think maybe that's a way I've changed is uh I'm not seeking the affirmation of everyone anymore.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I'm I've definitely had to I think because it didn't pan out, because I got everything I wanted.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then it didn't pan out.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've had to reevaluate how I find contentment.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um I've known that for six years, I've known that for my whole life, but it's really not until you're backed in a corner and you do learn that everything is vapor that you really start to like value what really matters in life, I think.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if anything, I I wish I could say I care less about succeeding now than I did, but that is not the case.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I do care less about unimportant opinions.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's in and I understand, like, in the moment, they don't feel unimportant.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the moment, it feels like the walls are closing in on you.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the there's there's two things that I've leaned into.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: One, I've leaned into for the better part of my life, and it's that scene in Eight Mile.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's the very last scene where Eminem goes into the battle rap at the very end of the movie, and the way he wins is he tears himself down so his opponent has nothing to say about him.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: He just completely dismantles dismantles himself in front of his battle rapping opponent.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's kind of that's it's a really cool way of like exposing vulnerability and just owning it and being like, okay, I've just said everything you're about to say about me.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Give me something new.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Most people will shut up.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second one is one that I've seen recently, and I cannot believe it's who it came from.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't remember which one of the Paul brothers it was, whether it was Jake or Logan Paul, but it's just this little simple quote, and it says, uh, your biggest fan is a person on the internet you've never met, your biggest hater is probably somebody you know.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it in, you know, I've carried both of those things in my pocket, especially recently, you know, you know, as I'm having conversations with people, and it helps me cope because do you get a lot of hate?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't typically, I don't typically, but when I do and I have, it does, it is those moments where it just feels like the walls close down.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, do I need to re-edit this?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to take down that post?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to do this?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, come on, you know, and I have to take five minutes, breathe, and be like, dude.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy how our minds are still so like animalistic and we still just fixate on negative things when there's there can be like a hundred positive comments, and if there's one negative one.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think unfortunately, it's just the way the internet is right now.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you look at Taylor's most recent album.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we who are fans, we love it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's really all that matters.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: But all you see on the internet is that it sucks.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, it doesn't suck.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fantastic album.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't understand why it's why it's why it be that way.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: But well, the world the world tends to hate successful people for whatever reason.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sucks to be hated on when you're not successful, though.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of until but it's interesting.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh at one point I was really depressed after the whole moment.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't even know how directly related it was.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it was because of the moment.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was because I started to realize really how magical uh a successful career in music really is and how like hard it is to grasp.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I I drove up to see one of my best friends plays for the Detroit Tigers, and I drove up to see him play in Oakland against well in Sacramento against the Sacramento A's or whatever they're called now.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and we got coffee and I was opening up with him about how I was doing mentally and how I think how I was struggling to um find motivation after kind I I I guess if you play 700 shows, if you release 50-something songs, if you post every day for two and a half years, and then if the moment you go viral people hate you and think you're funny and not think you're awesome, anyone anyone who's sane, you have to ask yourself, okay, what's wrong with me?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: How do I keep going?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do I want to keep going?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: For me, the answer was I don't really think anything's wrong with me, just misperception.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to keep going.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then, okay, well, what's the point of continuing on if you've done everything right and you're still not succeeding?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Which is funny because that's what my album's about.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I really thought the album would like bring healing to that, and then the album just exacerbated the whole problem.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I was asking myself, well, what's the point of working hard?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went up and I was asking my friend Jamai, and because he's been in and out of minors and majors for 10 years since we graduated high school, and that's such a grind, man.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like yeah, the professional athlete grind is such a grind.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and what I really admire about athletes is seemingly they really do not care what people say about them.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they're, I mean, they're getting death threats for striking out or missing a PK or missing a field goal, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they are just nose to the grindstone, they control what they can control, they do what they can do to win, and they show back up and they stand back up to the plate and they play baseball.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really refreshing for me to kind of just like get the crap beat out of me by my friend, like mental crap beat out of me by my friend.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um really inspiring, and and I think that's one thing that's changed in me too, is now I really do view my work as like kind of how an athlete would view their work.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just my job to control what I can control, to do what helps me succeed, to ask myself, do I care about it?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And is it helpful?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if if I don't care about it, I'm not gonna do it.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not helpful, I'm not gonna do it.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um I really learned that from talking to my one of my best friends from high school, and I was like, When did when did you get so wise?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what amazing what uh 10 years in the minors can you like pretty wise do that, I guess.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um well let's let's and then I think uh one other thing on you asked if uh it's changed my view on vulnerability.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Vulnerability has always been like really core to my songwriting and to my performance.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And to be mocked for your vulnerability is to me all the more evidence to just be more vulnerable.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm really trying to figure out how to do that on social media, but it it's just like made me double down at the live show level and on podcasts and stuff like that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I want to be super honest and authentic and uh yeah, I I think Catholic saints are really interesting to me.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't really know a lot about I'm not Catholic.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know I don't know about my beliefs on saints, but Catholic saints are really interesting, and they all have like they're a saint of something.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think I'm gonna be a saint because I suck in a lot of ways, but if I were to be a saint, I'd want to be like the saint of authenticity, vulnerability, uh, honesty.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I love I think that's what I'm working for.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not a saint, just to reiterate before the internet is like, oh, this guy's whatever.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um Well, since since we're talking about sainthood, let's talk about the title of your new album, The Kid Who Got It All Wrong.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the title alone says a lot.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean to you personally and what story are you telling through that record?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna answer you, but I want to hear what it means to you first.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: The kid who got it all wrong?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what do you think that means to you?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: What it means to me, if I were to personify it, if I would take that phrase and I personify it, honestly, it's um this is gonna sound cheesy, but I I you know I I come from I come from a different place, but um I don't think the best lessons in life are learned from getting everything right.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: You have to you have to fail upward, you know?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can't like I I lead people for my day job, and I don't talk about my day job on the podcast, but I lead people for my day job.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the speeches I give to them every day is like, hey, I just need you to make a dis uh decision.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh more is lost on indecision than making the wrong decision.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna get things wrong, but if you don't get things wrong, you are not gonna learn anything about how to be better tomorrow than you are today.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's what that title would mean if I were to personify it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh I asked just because I I do think there's I do think there's a lot of poetry in the title, and I think it leads on a lot of uh different perspectives.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I just sang it when I was writing, and I was like, is that me?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's not me.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've done everything right.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've done everything right.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was good at school, I was good at sports, I think I'm good at music, I work hard, like I'm kind, I'm I'm kind to most people.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I try to treat people well.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: So why do I feel like I got it wrong?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in reality, I feel like I got it wrong because I I keep getting rejected, I keep falling short, I keep feeling insufficient, I I I don't feel like I'm measuring up to who I thought I would become.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel like I'm measuring up to who other people hoped I would become.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel like I'm measuring up to dreams and fantasies and goals I've set in the past.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I've worked really hard to.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really weird and confusing.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I started, I I once I wrote the line, I decided like this is going to be what I explore through the album.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is why is it that even though I feel like I've done everything right, I still feel like I got everything wrong?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And as I began exploring that um and playing songs that I'd written for uh fans and younger people and older people and everything, it's it's really been um convicting, I think, for me to see how many people relate to the feeling that whether you are married and you're in the suburbs or you're living your dream and you still like want what the other person has.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, there's a lot of day, like I'm I'm able to go, like I'm going to a national park next week to record music.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's so sick.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And while I'm there, I guarantee you, at least five times a day, I will think about wishing I had the love of my life with me.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wishing I was married, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I also know that my friends who are married and have stable jobs because they're providing for their families, they wish they could be in a national park Monday through Friday.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it really doesn't matter which way you're stuck, you're you're gonna have regret, you're gonna feel like you're not getting it right.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so that to me is who the kid who got it all wrong.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's kind of what I'm exploring throughout the 15 songs, is just I've got it wrong and romance and uh ambition and sports, whatever.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: So the album itself feels really organic and human, you know, no extra production tricks, no no uh, you know, polish super polish on it.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Was that really important to you to help shape the emotion of the the songs and maintain that sense of authenticity?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was super important to me.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I also think this was my fourth, it's my debut album, but it's my my fourth project I've released, and I I just heard so much on the road that like, oh man, I wish your live stuff sounded more, or I wish your recorded stuff sounded more like your live stuff.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: When my producer and I started considering like what actually people probably meant by that, we started to think maybe it's just like the polishing.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really we made really crucial sonic decisions at the onset that everything we recorded was gonna be through a microphone, so everything was gonna be real, organic uh instruments, that we weren't gonna use uh like melody tuning, which is what most pop vocals do.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um that we were just gonna like let the raw vocal be the raw vocal.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: And those decisions guided everything we did because we we really did want the music to reflect the the album, every song feels like it's a bearing of my soul and that my soul's exposed.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the best way to do that musically is also to leave everything exposed.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I naturally write like really big music, so there's still there are a ton of instruments, and every song, pretty much every song is like massive, but they are all built from the foundation of acoustic guitar, banjo, mandolin, violin, piano, bass guitar, vocals.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's I I might have forgotten an instrument, but I think that's like literally the only instruments on the album, which is really rare right now in pop music, and so yeah, I I hope that answers your question.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: I no, it's perfect.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of wrapping the discussion about the album up a little bit, you know, a lot of your writing touches on the insecurity comparison, the pursuit of getting it right.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think any of us really get it right, or is the beauty in the mistakes?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, One Direction did once famously say that it's it's the imperfect you know, you don't I don't know what I'm I'm I'm trying to quote what makes you beautiful, and I can't think of the lyrics, but uh I I hope we can get it right.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I think maybe getting it right is just almost deciding that you got it right.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like finding contentment that where we've ended up or where we're going is is enough and is sufficient.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think those are the two words that like enough and sufficient, I've always felt like I'm not enough.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've always felt insufficient, and so that's what drove the album.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if I have if I was most likely to succeed, or best to take home the mom and dad, or like all these things, and I still feel like I suck, I've gotta think most people feel the same way.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And when I look at like old 75-year-olds that seemingly have it figured out, it seems like they're just like really content and they focus on relationships and they focus on um the people that they love.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that's probably what I don't know.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know the answer to your question.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I don't agree with the album.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I feel like sometimes people think that the artist like has it figured out.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: In this case, the artist does not have it figured out, the artist is super confused and still doesn't know the answer to all the questions.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That is perfectly okay because I think I've came up recently with this kind of generational theory in my head, you know.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a bit older than you, so I'll throw this out there, and this is kind of where I've landed with things.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think people get to this point where they come into this world and they come into adulthood and they want to see the best out of people, they want to see the best out of their experiences.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And somewhere in their 20s, maybe even as late as the early 30s, cynicism kind of starts to seep in.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time they get through the 30s, like they've whether they've agreed to become that way or not, they become fully cynical people, and then they spend the rest of their life trying to undo that cynicism.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people that are like, Man, I used to think this artist was horrible like 10 years ago.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm this artist's biggest fan.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you were to kind of break it down to a pop culture level, right?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just because you know, perception sometimes becomes reality, and reality is sometimes just perception, if that makes sense.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I think there's some truth to that cycle.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean maybe that's what this did for me, is it like accelerated me through the cynicism because it was so like I so saw the like horrible side of human nature that I'm like past cynicism.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I it's all I'm almost like just sad for people and sad for myself.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I because I've been cynical for like three years.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've been like I felt I felt I feel like Larry David everywhere I go.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean about everything.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: You and about 95% of my friend group.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I love I love too, and I love Seinfeld, but I'm thinking about like you know, I'm passing somebody, I'm like, you slow, so slow.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then somebody's passing me, I'm like, oh big, big guy in a hurry, you know, and so I go, What are we doing?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: What are we doing?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, uh so yeah, I I my I dressed up as Larry David for Halloween last year, which was pretty awesome.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: All cap that's amazing.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm in a I'm in the season of life where I feel like I'm relearning empathy.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I got so cynical that my sense of empathy and how other people feel and how other people are impacted by my own behaviors, I just became blind to it.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm kind of looking at that again, and I'm looking at finding joy in other people's joy again.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, man, it's been a long time since I've looked at the world through that lens, and that's kind of where I landed on this whole thing, and where I kind of came up with this whole generational, you know, rotation, if you will.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the rotation, the 360.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you've built a reputation as everybody's favorite local artist.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: What does that phrase mean to you?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you maintain that personal connection now that your audience has exploded?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what's really funny?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone throws favorite in there.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've never put favorite in there.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone puts it in there.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is not just the you thing, everyone puts it in there.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, people will buy a shirt that says everyone's local artist.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they will be like, Oh, I have my everyone's favorite local artist shirt on.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it's not on there.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not on there.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I would never claim to be someone's favorite anything.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe you should take it as a compliment.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe maybe that's what I was gonna say.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is I think it's I don't think any artist that I know of in music history, and definitely not right now, is leaning into like the beauty of being a local artist.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: What is the beauty of being a local artist?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know your fans.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Your fans show up every time, your fans bring their friends, your fans buy your merch, your bands like they care about you, they care about your success, and they're rooting for you to get out of that town.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what a local artist is.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, this is our guy, and we hope he can break out, and then we hope he comes back when he breaks out.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I started saying that because people in Washington state were posting my music and being like, support local music.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm from Georgia, I could not be further from your state.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking to you at all.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then it hit me like, oh, these people feel like I'm their local artist.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because of doing these small intimate gatherings and house shows and socially distant shows and camps all around the country and really getting to spending so much.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I play for an hour and a half, I usually talk to fans for two hours after.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like every fan is a VIP, every fan is important to me.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I often say from stage, like every artist is gonna thank you for being there.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm probably gonna thank you like six times tonight because I genuinely like you are more than just a number to me.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: You are gen, you are a person, you have a story, and I'm really like stoked that you're here.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, that's what being a local artist is is it's just like actually not seeing yourself as super self-important and like it's funny because I'm gonna say your success is not dependent on like playing the biggest venue, but I definitely want to play bigger venues, right?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: And when I do, I really want people to still feel like they're seeing their local artists, and I want I want people to feel valued, and I want people to feel like people and not like numbers and bodies in a room.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that to me is what being everyone's local artist is.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: No one's actually ever asked me that, which is kind of crazy.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's what makes you everybody's favorite local artist, just own it, okay?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you're kicking you're kicking off a US tour this fall.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, what are you excited for on the road?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And how what do you hope people walk away with after seeing you play?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite parts of touring is eating food.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm excited to eat the different foods around the country.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like we mentioned Ronzos earlier.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just got back from New York.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was smashing bagels every day.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: I got to know my bodega guy at the house I was staying at.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really love food.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love sports.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love if I can ever make an effort to like hike where I go or go skiing in Colorado or go to a Georgia game when I'm at a game when I've got the show in Atlanta.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that to me, touring is a great excuse to see the country.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: And because I came up staying on people's couches, I would I would have like four shows in one town in a week because I would just play at different people's houses.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I would always have a host that would like take me to their favorite restaurant, and then we would go get breakfast somewhere, we'd go get coffee somewhere.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really love seeing America for what it is, and um so honestly, I'm excited for that.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then on the show front, uh it's hard for me to differentiate.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: I really just love playing live and I love uh per performing.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I feel like I sound like I I honestly feel like I'm a quarterback right now that's like giving you a political answer.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's like, oh yeah, play great, you know, yeah, offensive line played pretty well.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I I don't really know how to explain to you other than going back on what I've said several times, which is I love connecting with people.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I maybe this tour I won't sweat as much.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: That would be a big win if I can do that.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm excited to play the songs now that they're out.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, people know the words.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's always fun for people to know the words.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, man, it's just fun to get on a stage and sing your little heart out and bear it for people to make fun of.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's funny, you know, jumping from the favorite or I'm sorry, everyone's local artist or everyone's favorite local artist.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now all of these all of these trying to correct you.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was really making the point.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, dude, I love it.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, all of these places that you've been to before, you know, you talked about the different restaurants, the different eateries, and all these experiences.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like every time you go to a city, you make it a point to experience that city, that place.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: The more you visit those places, those places become your local places, you know, in a roundabout way.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a beautiful experience.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've really I really love sandwiches.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Me too, man.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Specifically cold sandwiches.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think that's a really hot take.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and I want to make like a coffee table book of the best sandwiches in the United States.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, take a picture and you know, pre and then maybe like a selfie, like before you eat said sandwich and after, you know.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Muk crab, you ever heard of that?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, mukbang my sandwich.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Best sandwich in America, by the way, Mike, is at uh High Street Delhi in San Luis Obispo, California.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: They have a sandwich called the Dutch Crunch, Dutch Punch.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: One of them's a bread, one of them's a sandwich.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fantastic sandwich.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have driven, it's a three-hour drive from here.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: I have made the drive four separate times just for the sandwich.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love it.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, man, I have really enjoyed our conversation.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed getting to know you.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I honestly feel like we could call each other friends after this is all said and done.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my closing question, I ask everybody this question because I absolutely love the diversity of answers that I get.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: And given your experiences, good, bad, ugly, otherwise, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, the world?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, sir.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: The whole world?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: What can what can be done to make the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I I generally lean into small movements myself.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm conflicted.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm conflicted.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Part of me wants to say, put your phone down and go do something nice for someone, like in your actual sphere of influence.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: And part of me wants to say, if something pisses you off on the internet, just keep scrolling.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to, you don't have to engage with it.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is making you more upset, and it is only contributing to the problem.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's no requirement.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: When someone's like, Oh, the world sucks, you know.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just like put the phone down, buddy.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not that just put the phone down.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is great.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: This sucks.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I I agree.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I my my friends and I always joke, we're like, man, the world was a lot better when it was just flip phones in my space.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I just started working with management, and that's been amazing because uh today I deleted Instagram for the first time since June when I had to delete it for my mental health.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm it's so awesome to open my phone and not have the app that I instinctually open to get an endorphin rush, you know?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I've already probably gained an hour of productivity today from not doom scrolling.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think I think that how to make the world a better place.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote a song recently, um, and it's called Problem.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it starts off, I'll just speak some of the lyrics to you.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's an interesting point, but I say cold cup of coffee, 10 in the morning.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can quit whenever I want.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm probably sipping carcinogens, but at least I haven't drank in a month.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: I ain't got a problem, I ain't got a problem, no.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I got the idea from that because I went skiing one time, uh, and I slept in my car in the Denny's parking lot, and my friends slept in their car in the Denny's parking lot, and we woke up and it's 7 a.m.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: And my my buddy's grabbing something out of his suitcase, and it's this really exotic looking, bionical type vibe.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, What you got there?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Oh, it's a vape, an e-cigarette.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like some?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm good, thanks.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Why not?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, it's 7 a.m.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I could hit you with that.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: I could get you with it at 7 a.m.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I I don't vape.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I didn't I didn't even say I was just like, I don't vape, but thank you.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, You're not gonna judge me for it though, right?
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, No, I don't, I don't care.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like he goes, okay, I just want to make sure he's like judgment free.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah, dude, I'm not gonna judge you for vaping.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have my own vices.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Really, what are your vices?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I drink a lot of Dr.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Pepper.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he said, Yeah, man, well, you know, you gotta stop that.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna give you diabetes, high cholesterol, heart disease.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I it's too early for this.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I walked away.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it hit me that like we all have a problem, and we sit around and judge other people for their problems.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so the song ends up getting to the place of I am the problem.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like if I want to see something change in the world, I can make an effort to do that today.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: I might and I don't have to post about it, right?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Which is one thing I think we forget is like we can just go love someone, we don't have to make a big scene.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I it's it's funny you talked about deleting Instagram there uh right before the pandemic.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've talked about this on the show before, but uh December 2019, I took this challenge.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was listening to this book, and uh gosh, I could wish I could remember the author.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, I was following the author online, and he threw out this challenge to log off all of your social media from Christmas Eve until the day after New Year's, until January 2nd.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: I did it.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing that I found myself doing when I logged back on was unfollowing, deleting, unfriending, just cleaning house because that absence made me realize the toxic triggers that I had in my life from the doom scrolling and the stuff that I was reading, the stuff that I was party to, the stuff that I was witness to.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I recommend it for anybody.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like take a social media sabbatical for a short period of time or occasionally and watch your life improve.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is insane.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Funny that the podcast guy that's gonna put this on digital platforms says that, right?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, you know, we're all we're all hypocrites.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I have still posting.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I I don't have social media, but I'm still posting.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still contributing to the problem.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm just I'm getting out of it myself.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's funny.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was texting with a friend today.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear your opinion on this, Mike.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he was saying, I just he was like, I just got back from Italy.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a vibe.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Everywhere you look, it feels like it's AI generated and the food is so healthy.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: I could eat a whole pizza and a plate of pasta and not feel bloated.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was great.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the lifestyle in general is so beautiful and slower and more peaceful.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can do honest work in a in the same village for your entire life and still be able to own a home, provide for your family, and be respected by everyone around you.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Man, how I secretly long to own a little shop in a little town with my little wife and have some little kids and lead a little life.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, My friend said, Yeah, same.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's a shame we have to achieve something big before we think we deserve the small.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is like a casual text conversation, shout out not being on social media.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: But like, isn't that interesting about it?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the truth.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you feel like you have to do something big.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: It it's it's the absolute truth.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, funny, he mentioned being in Italy.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's a small town in Italy, and I think I watched it on uh Parts Unknown with Anthony Bourdain at one time or another.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a small town in Italy that has the highest life expectancy of any other city in the world, and I think it is very much attributed to that.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's slowing down, like realizing that not everything has to be the biggest, the best, the you know, the baddest, you know, and and just living life, you know.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I want that.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: I want to believe, I want to actually live that way so badly, but I so I so badly want to, you know, sell out red rocks and make an album that's gonna change the world, and you know, it would I wish I was in a place where I could just uh move to a ski town and be an actual local artist and yeah.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, small movements, small movements lead to big results, my friend.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Brendan, why don't you tell my audience where they can find your music and you online where they can follow you?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, everyone.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Brendan Abernathy.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you can find my music wherever you listen to music under Brendan Abernathy.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's D-R-E-N-D-A-N-A-B-U-R N A T H Y.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it'll be in the show notes.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my most recent album, The Kid Who Got It All Wrong, is out.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: I have three shows left in 2025.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: Denver, uh or LA, Denver, and Atlanta.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: Pull up.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a great show, I promise.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: If if you come and you don't enjoy it, I will give you a$20 bill on your way out.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's a standing offer to all shows.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh oh, on social media, Brendan Abernathy.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's my name.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I have had so much fun just hanging out with you.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the doors open for you to come back at any time, my friend.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was a fun chat.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for asking great questions and being curious and sharing some of your perspectives as well.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love it, man.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: Brendan Abernathy, the world is a much better place with you and it.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing the show.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Mike.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I'd like to thank my guest, Brendan Abernathy, for joining me on the show today.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Go to Spotify, listen to his tune, follow him on social media at Brendan Abernathy.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: And while you are being generous with the followers, make sure you're following Caught on the Mike on all social media platforms.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Go to YouTube and subscribe to my YouTube channels and watch the video version of this and past episode.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit me to www.cotonTheMic.com.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: And for all guest inferences, shoot me an email, cottonheat at gmail.com.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: This episode was a lot of fun, so it's great to get to know Brendan Caught on the Mic with Michael Flarkstood.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Flarkstudes until next time.