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Story Time with John Blashford-Snell: The 1971-72 Darién Gap Expedition · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
0:09
Speaker 1: Ashley Jordano, and today I'm tuning in from kyrgyzs Dan
0:13
Speaker 1: and I have a very special guest here, Colonel John
0:16
Speaker 1: Blashford Snell. Welcome to the podcast. John, so happy to
0:20
Speaker 1: have you here.
0:22
Speaker 2: Good morning.
0:25
Speaker 3: So you're in.
0:27
Speaker 1: The SCS headquarters, which is the Scientific Explorer Society, and
0:34
Speaker 1: you're joining us from England today, so welcome.
0:39
Speaker 2: As I'm sitting in my seconds is disk with its
0:44
Speaker 2: computer is I'm not an expert on computers, so I
0:47
Speaker 2: hope this works.
0:48
Speaker 3: For high I think it's going to be great.
0:52
Speaker 1: But speaking of being an expert, so you are an
0:55
Speaker 1: explore extraordinaire, author of numerous books and founder of what
1:01
Speaker 1: I just mentioned, the Scientific Explorer Society. And when I
1:05
Speaker 1: say explore extraordinary, I mean you've mounted over one hundred
1:08
Speaker 1: expeditions over the past fifty years all over the world,
1:11
Speaker 1: concentrating on scientific research and community aid. So you have
1:17
Speaker 1: such a wealth of experience and I can't wait to
1:20
Speaker 1: chat with you about some of those expeditions.
1:25
Speaker 2: Well, I had a very wonderful visit to the Overland
1:29
Speaker 2: Journal display a few years ago in North Carolina. I
1:33
Speaker 2: always remember that because we arrived at the time of
1:38
Speaker 2: a hurricane and we had to give the lecture on
1:41
Speaker 2: the Daring Gap in a tent and people had to
1:45
Speaker 2: hold the tent down while I spoke. It was quite
1:48
Speaker 2: an epic lecture.
1:52
Speaker 1: Oh wow, what an experience, I think from an off
1:57
Speaker 1: road perspective. Although you've had so many other expeditions that
2:01
Speaker 1: you've mounted, the four wheel drive community has been the
2:04
Speaker 1: most enamored by the Darien Gap expedition that you did
2:08
Speaker 1: in Range Rivers nineteen seventy one nineteen seventy two.
2:12
Speaker 3: Walk us through the background.
2:15
Speaker 1: Maybe like the geopolitical situation during that time that made
2:18
Speaker 1: that trip possible. What were they looking at? There are
2:21
Speaker 1: a few countries interested in learning more about that region.
2:27
Speaker 2: Well. The Daring Gap in nineteen seventy one was the
2:32
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty mile blockage in the route of
2:37
Speaker 2: the Pan American Highway, which runs from Alaska as a
2:41
Speaker 2: cape on the various South American countries were keen to
2:49
Speaker 2: get the road completed so that they could open up
2:54
Speaker 2: trade with the Central America and the United States. To
3:00
Speaker 2: do this, it needed to put a road or a
3:03
Speaker 2: track through the two hundred and fifty miles of dense jungle, ells, mountains, swamps, snakes, bugs, bandits,
3:14
Speaker 2: it was everything. It was one of the most impossible
3:18
Speaker 2: barriers in the world, and they wanted to get vehicles
3:22
Speaker 2: through there to show that it was possible to put
3:26
Speaker 2: them through from a commercial point of view. Several expeditions
3:30
Speaker 2: had tried. One Canadian one actually got most of the way,
3:35
Speaker 2: but they didn't complete the journey through the Toto Swamp,
3:39
Speaker 2: which is a very big piece of swamp about the
3:42
Speaker 2: size of Texas, which, of course you can't motivate coss.
3:46
Speaker 2: So this committee, which was formed in Bogota, Columbia, came
3:52
Speaker 2: to London and threw down the gauntlet, so to speak
3:57
Speaker 2: to the British, and said why can't you guys do
4:01
Speaker 2: this your explorers, and lots of the well meaning Englishmen
4:06
Speaker 2: said yes, yes, yes, of course we can do it.
4:09
Speaker 2: At that point, I was working in the Ministry's Defense
4:12
Speaker 2: in London, and I received an invitation to have lunch
4:16
Speaker 2: with these illustrious gentlemen to see whether this expedition was feasible.
4:22
Speaker 2: I went to lunch, I was a member. The chairman
4:25
Speaker 2: of the lunch wore a purple bowler hat and he
4:29
Speaker 2: had a monocle, so you are an extraordinary looking jab
4:33
Speaker 2: But he said to me, do you know whether Darian
4:38
Speaker 2: gap is I said, oh, yes, it's in the middle
4:42
Speaker 2: of Russia. No, no, no, he said, in South America.
4:47
Speaker 2: And that was that I had my first lesson. I've
4:50
Speaker 2: never been to South America. I didn't know much about
4:54
Speaker 2: Central American jungle. Most of my experience had been in Africa.
5:00
Speaker 2: And when they explained the problem to me, I said, well,
5:05
Speaker 2: it's obviously you're going to need a reconnaissance before you
5:09
Speaker 2: take this on, because from what you tell me, it's
5:12
Speaker 2: going to be a very difficult problem. So he said, well,
5:16
Speaker 2: who do you suggest. I said, well, by good fortune,
5:20
Speaker 2: I've got an Irish friend who recently overtook a police
5:26
Speaker 2: car at seventy miles an hour in the middle of
5:29
Speaker 2: London and he's quite keen to be outside England for
5:33
Speaker 2: a little while before his court case comes up. And
5:37
Speaker 2: they said, well, if we give him one hundred pounds,
5:41
Speaker 2: do you think you'll go out there and do the
5:43
Speaker 2: WRECKI I said, well, I'll try him. So I got
5:46
Speaker 2: hold of Brendan O'Brien and I said, Brendan, how about
5:51
Speaker 2: a trip to Central America.
5:52
Speaker 4: You are you?
5:53
Speaker 2: Are you on? He said, And with that he left.
5:57
Speaker 2: When he got there, he said to me, I must
6:00
Speaker 2: have a gun. And I said, I'm not going to
6:03
Speaker 2: give an irishman a gun. You know, something might happen. Oh,
6:06
Speaker 2: he said, I must have a gun. He said, there
6:08
Speaker 2: are lots of dangerous animals and people in the Daring Gap.
6:13
Speaker 2: So I refused to give him a gun. But he
6:15
Speaker 2: got one anywhere. And he set off with two Indians
6:19
Speaker 2: and they walked through the Daring Gap, doing this wreky
6:23
Speaker 2: to see whether it was possible to make a track
6:25
Speaker 2: for vehicles. When they got to the far end, they
6:30
Speaker 2: walked into a village in Colombia and there was no
6:33
Speaker 2: one there except a little dog. And the little dog
6:38
Speaker 2: came walking up towards him, and Brendan quite liked little dogs.
6:44
Speaker 2: The two Indians who had been with him had fled,
6:48
Speaker 2: and when he looked at the dog, he realized why
6:50
Speaker 2: it was foaming at the mouth. The dog had rabies,
6:56
Speaker 2: and somewhere in his backpack he got his revolver, but
7:02
Speaker 2: the ammunition was in a pair of socks somewhere else.
7:05
Speaker 2: So imagine the sight of this chap standing in the
7:09
Speaker 2: middle of the village with a dog coming at him,
7:12
Speaker 2: and he tried to unpack his back back, get the revolver,
7:16
Speaker 2: final the ammunition loads of Volva and bang he shot
7:20
Speaker 2: the dog, and of course the villagers then poured out
7:24
Speaker 2: and carried him on their shoulder because they said he
7:27
Speaker 2: had saved the village from the rabid dog. A few
7:32
Speaker 2: weeks later he got back to England. He came to
7:35
Speaker 2: see me and he said, you can do it. Here's
7:39
Speaker 2: a map, but don't ask me to come with you.
7:42
Speaker 2: So I went back to the planning board and I said, yes,
7:48
Speaker 2: but I think you're going to need an enormous amount
7:51
Speaker 2: of backing from the British Ministry of Defense, from the
7:55
Speaker 2: Panamanian and Columbian governments, and hopefully from the American armed
8:00
Speaker 2: forces who were then occupying the canal zone. So a
8:06
Speaker 2: plan began to evolve. First of all, of course, it
8:11
Speaker 2: needed some cars to get through, and the Rover company
8:15
Speaker 2: in England had just produced this brand new all singing,
8:20
Speaker 2: all dancing four wheel drive called the range Rover, and
8:26
Speaker 2: they wanted it tested. And they said, if we lend
8:29
Speaker 2: you two of our brand new range Rovers, would you
8:33
Speaker 2: drive them from Alaska to Cape Porn Oh. Yes, I said,
8:37
Speaker 2: that sounds pretty well straightforward. For most of the distance
8:41
Speaker 2: there's a road except for the two hundred and fifty
8:44
Speaker 2: miles and then geting, and for that we're going to
8:48
Speaker 2: have to make a track. The Ministry of Defense said
8:53
Speaker 2: we will support it, and the British Foreign Office agreed,
8:58
Speaker 2: The Panamanian government agreed, the Columbian government agreed amazingly, and
9:02
Speaker 2: the United States forces in the Canal Zone also agreed.
9:07
Speaker 2: And the problem was that the Panamanians didn't like the Columbians,
9:10
Speaker 2: didn't like the Pvenamanian neither of them liked the Americans,
9:15
Speaker 2: but they didn't understand the British. So we had a
9:18
Speaker 2: slight opportunity to do something there. However, I then recruited
9:25
Speaker 2: an expedition of soldiers and servicemen and scientists because it
9:31
Speaker 2: was pointed out quite likely that if we were going
9:34
Speaker 2: to put a road to this pristine bit of forests,
9:40
Speaker 2: we were going to disturb the indigenous people, the wildlife,
9:44
Speaker 2: the environment, and one must give a thought to what's
9:48
Speaker 2: going to happen to the Daring Gap once the road
9:51
Speaker 2: goes through. So there were sixty in all of US,
9:55
Speaker 2: and there were some Americans, some British, and Colombians and
9:59
Speaker 2: Panamanian and it was a good mixture of people. It
10:04
Speaker 2: was decided that a team of cavalry soldiers from the
10:08
Speaker 2: British Army would drive the range Rovers from Anchorage to Panama.
10:15
Speaker 2: Then they would drive it through a track that we
10:19
Speaker 2: were making into the Daring Gap with teams of Royal engineers,
10:23
Speaker 2: and then they would pick up the cars again in
10:27
Speaker 2: Columbia and drive down to Cape Horn. It was estimated
10:32
Speaker 2: this would take us about six months, and so the
10:37
Speaker 2: team assembled and I went out with the most of
10:41
Speaker 2: the party. In December January of nineteen seventy one seventy two,
10:48
Speaker 2: the range Rovers duly arrived in Panama, having had one
10:53
Speaker 2: accident on the Pan American Highway coming down, but they
10:57
Speaker 2: had repaired the vehicles and there was a problem. It
11:02
Speaker 2: was due to stop raining in January, but the rain
11:07
Speaker 2: hadn't stopped, and so that the jungle was rather like
11:12
Speaker 2: the battlefield in the Field of the Thomb during the
11:16
Speaker 2: First World War. Mud thick deep mud was everywhere, and
11:22
Speaker 2: of course once the vehicle started to move in this
11:25
Speaker 2: terrain they got stuck. They only not only got stuck.
11:31
Speaker 2: The transmissions couldn't stand the stress of the wheels being
11:36
Speaker 2: stuck on the engine, which was very powerful trying to turn,
11:41
Speaker 2: and so the transmissions blew up, and they blew up
11:45
Speaker 2: with such force that the teeth and the transmission came
11:50
Speaker 2: through the floor of the range rover, and luckily there
11:53
Speaker 2: was no one sitting in the back, and eventually we
11:58
Speaker 2: broke nine back axles. But of course we meanwhile managed
12:03
Speaker 2: to communicate by radio with the Rover company and said,
12:08
Speaker 2: you have got to design a better transmission system, and
12:13
Speaker 2: they did, and they flew these out and the United
12:17
Speaker 2: States Air Force brought the men by helicopter and parachute
12:22
Speaker 2: and were dropped to where the range rowers were now
12:25
Speaker 2: stuck in the jungle. Whilst all this had been going on,
12:30
Speaker 2: we wanted to get ahead with a track, so my
12:34
Speaker 2: second in command purchased a battered old land Rover in
12:39
Speaker 2: Panama City. It had been rolled and so it was
12:43
Speaker 2: in the middle of a mess. But he took off
12:46
Speaker 2: the top, the doors, the tailgate, everything you could remove
12:51
Speaker 2: to make it as light as possible, and then he
12:54
Speaker 2: loaded this scale down land rover into a huge American
13:00
Speaker 2: helicopter and were called a jolly green gild, and he
13:06
Speaker 2: flew this into the Daring Gap to join us. We
13:12
Speaker 2: then went ahead using this batterlold land rover as a
13:16
Speaker 2: tool carrier, so the engineers could march with it, and
13:21
Speaker 2: the land rover could carry all the tools, explosive and
13:25
Speaker 2: so on that we needed to get the track through. Originally,
13:31
Speaker 2: they had planned to use a couple of vehicles called hillbillies.
13:37
Speaker 2: Hillbillies were a little tracked for wheelbarrows, and they were
13:43
Speaker 2: going to be used to go through the Daring Gap
13:46
Speaker 2: carrying the tools and equipment for the engineers. But although
13:51
Speaker 2: they'd been tested perfectly in England where they worked well,
13:56
Speaker 2: when they got out into that mud, the mud oozed
14:00
Speaker 2: up between the tracks and it's set like concrete. So
14:05
Speaker 2: the hillbills were glued to the jungle floor and they're
14:10
Speaker 2: still there. Meanwhile, the old batterlow Land Robert pushed on
14:16
Speaker 2: ahead with the sappers, the engineers, and with support from
14:20
Speaker 2: the United States Forces and the Panamanian Guardian National We
14:25
Speaker 2: pressed on the weather conditions, although the rain dried up,
14:31
Speaker 2: but the weather conditions were pretty awful, and we were
14:35
Speaker 2: wet all the time, and our feet began to rot
14:39
Speaker 2: and when they rotted. Of course, we couldn't really walk pobbly,
14:43
Speaker 2: and although we had the best jungle boots that you
14:46
Speaker 2: could provide and various ointments that put on about half
14:51
Speaker 2: our people were taken sick with jungle foot, which meant
14:58
Speaker 2: we were losing people like mad. At one point we
15:02
Speaker 2: were running out of people, and I went to the
15:05
Speaker 2: local prison in a place called El Real, and I
15:09
Speaker 2: did a deal with the prison warden and I said,
15:13
Speaker 2: if you can let me have six of your prisoners,
15:16
Speaker 2: I will give you a case of six bottles of whiskey.
15:20
Speaker 2: And he agreed. So I purchased half a dozen murderers
15:25
Speaker 2: and smugglers and a few more from the prison to
15:29
Speaker 2: come and work for me. I put them into a
15:31
Speaker 2: group and I put in charge of them a gurkha.
15:35
Speaker 2: I don't way you know what a gurkha is, but
15:37
Speaker 2: they're Nepalese and very very tough professional soldiers. And this
15:42
Speaker 2: chap took them in hand and he showed them his
15:46
Speaker 2: cookery knife and he said, you see this, he's very sharp.
15:50
Speaker 2: You do what I tell you everything fine, you byss
15:54
Speaker 2: ob amy, I use this knife on you. They were
15:57
Speaker 2: terrified of him. However, they agreed to go, because we'd
16:01
Speaker 2: said once we get to Columbia, we will release you
16:06
Speaker 2: and give you a few dollars and you can go
16:10
Speaker 2: home to wherever you've come from. Some of them have
16:12
Speaker 2: come from Ecuador and Chili and so on, and so
16:16
Speaker 2: they do did join us, but then we found a problem.
16:20
Speaker 2: One of my sergeants came up to me and said,
16:23
Speaker 2: by the way, sir, have you realized that one of
16:26
Speaker 2: the prisoners is a girl. I hadn't, and so I
16:32
Speaker 2: sent for this lady who didn't look very lady like.
16:36
Speaker 2: She was a pretty disreputable looking girl, and I said,
16:39
Speaker 2: are you happy to come with us? No, she said,
16:42
Speaker 2: I don't trust soldiers. I'll be raped or something. I
16:45
Speaker 2: know what will happen. I said, no, no, no, we're British.
16:49
Speaker 2: We don't do that to ladies. We look after you.
16:53
Speaker 2: So she said how do I know? I said, well, look,
16:56
Speaker 2: we have we have some ladies in our team, and
16:59
Speaker 2: we did. We had two girls who were looking after
17:02
Speaker 2: the horses. So I got hold of one of the girls.
17:06
Speaker 2: There was a fairly tough looking lady, and I said,
17:09
Speaker 2: would you mind taking this girl behind the hut and
17:13
Speaker 2: convince her that you're a woman and that she's safe
17:16
Speaker 2: to come with us. So they went and had a
17:18
Speaker 2: private chat, and when the girl realized that there were
17:21
Speaker 2: women with us, she agreed to come with us. And
17:26
Speaker 2: later on, after they had reached Columbia, I always remember
17:29
Speaker 2: going there to meet the local mayor, and I flew
17:33
Speaker 2: over in the beaver aircraft at the Army Air Corps
17:36
Speaker 2: had sent with us. And when I landed in Columbia,
17:40
Speaker 2: I went to the mayor's house. I was greeted by
17:43
Speaker 2: a very attractive girl with a short skirt and high
17:47
Speaker 2: boots and long black hair, and she smiled at me
17:51
Speaker 2: and she said, you remember me. It is Esmeralda. And
17:55
Speaker 2: there was this girl who had been the most disreputable
17:58
Speaker 2: looking person in the jungle, and she now become the
18:02
Speaker 2: mistress of the local mayor. So that was quite useful. Meanwhile,
18:08
Speaker 2: the vehicles began to push on. The range rovers with
18:12
Speaker 2: their new back axles, started to move quickly through the
18:17
Speaker 2: trail that had been cut by the engineers on the
18:22
Speaker 2: way ahead with the land rover, which we called the pathminder,
18:27
Speaker 2: and eventually, on the twenty third of April nineteen seventy two,
18:33
Speaker 2: they reached Columbia. Before that they had reached the border
18:40
Speaker 2: with Columbia and been greeted by the Columbian army. We
18:45
Speaker 2: arrived at the border slightly earlier. There was no one there,
18:49
Speaker 2: and then suddenly at one o'clock the jungle moved, and
18:54
Speaker 2: into the clearing came thirty heavily armed Columbian soldiers. An
19:01
Speaker 2: assortment major came forward with a citation it looked like
19:06
Speaker 2: a sort of laboratory role, which he unrolled and he
19:10
Speaker 2: read out, and he said, in honor of Simon Bolivar,
19:15
Speaker 2: the liberator of Colombia, and the assistance given in eighteen
19:21
Speaker 2: nineteen by Lord Wellington of England, who sent soldiers with
19:26
Speaker 2: a British legion to help the rebels in Columbia, you
19:30
Speaker 2: are permitted to enter our country with drums beating, flags
19:36
Speaker 2: flying and baynet's fixed. Well. We had an old shotgun,
19:42
Speaker 2: and we had with some machetties. We had a Union
19:50
Speaker 2: Jack flag, and we had a tin can that we
19:53
Speaker 2: could beat as a drum. So we marched into Columbia
19:57
Speaker 2: with the Colombian sold us, and we were greeted by
20:01
Speaker 2: local villagers who brought their children to show them to us,
20:07
Speaker 2: and pointed at the children's blue eyes and said English English,
20:11
Speaker 2: and not sure whether the English soldiers or and they
20:14
Speaker 2: were probably Irish soldiers had actually left behind all these
20:18
Speaker 2: children in Colombia. Anyway, we were given a huge welcome
20:23
Speaker 2: by the Colombians and a whole series of parties took place.
20:28
Speaker 2: At the end, we went to the Bogata to the
20:32
Speaker 2: incredible statue, to see Montboliva in the capitol, where we
20:37
Speaker 2: had a ceremony in memory of the Columbians who died
20:41
Speaker 2: assisting us. Six of them were killed by bandits in
20:46
Speaker 2: the mountains. These were the farc terrorists who were just
20:50
Speaker 2: starting in operation, and a number of them six again
20:55
Speaker 2: were drowned when a boat turned over in the Estrato
20:59
Speaker 2: River trying to come into our system. So the Columbians
21:03
Speaker 2: had lost twelve people helping us. We didn't lose anyone,
21:07
Speaker 2: but we had a lot of sick people. And at
21:10
Speaker 2: that point the range rovers went on down to Terra
21:15
Speaker 2: del Fuego and they reached in June of nineteen seventy two.
21:20
Speaker 2: They arrived there having completed the seventeen thousand mile journey.
21:27
Speaker 2: We had a great many close calls, mainly with things
21:31
Speaker 2: like dangerous snakes that caused us great problems, and of
21:37
Speaker 2: course a lot of the time we had to carry
21:39
Speaker 2: stores using horses, so we took twenty six Panamanian pack
21:45
Speaker 2: bonies in carrying the petrol for the range rovers, and
21:52
Speaker 2: we also later picked up some Columbian mules who were
21:56
Speaker 2: pretty sturdy animals to carry. At the other side, we
22:01
Speaker 2: had parachute drops throughout from the Army Air Corps Beaver
22:06
Speaker 2: aircraft and also we had helicopter assistance from both the
22:11
Speaker 2: Panamanians and the Colombians and the panaman so it was
22:16
Speaker 2: a real joint international venture and the range Rover was
22:22
Speaker 2: now launched. It had been a very close call because
22:25
Speaker 2: it damn nearly didn't make it. We marched into Columbia
22:29
Speaker 2: once and George's Day, which was appropriate as the patron
22:33
Speaker 2: saint to Memon, and we crossed into this huge welcome,
22:38
Speaker 2: so the range Rover was now new. We went back.
22:42
Speaker 2: Various movies and films were produced by the film cause.
22:46
Speaker 2: The Canadians shot a very good movie for the Canadian
22:50
Speaker 2: Broadcasting Corporation. We had another one made for an Army
22:56
Speaker 2: cinema team and they one of those films is still
23:00
Speaker 2: on YouTube. Books were written, story is told, and we
23:05
Speaker 2: went back to get on with our normal work in England, and.
23:11
Speaker 1: Now you're here telling us the story again. So thank
23:14
Speaker 1: you for sharing all of that with us. And it's
23:17
Speaker 1: great to hear it from you. I've read your one
23:19
Speaker 1: of your books, and I have multiple, so we'll talk
23:22
Speaker 1: about those after, but it's really great to hear it
23:25
Speaker 1: coming from you directly.
23:26
Speaker 3: I have a question for you.
23:28
Speaker 1: So you mentioned being horrified by the destruction of the
23:32
Speaker 1: rainforest and the spread of disease from outsiders to the
23:35
Speaker 1: indigenous people coming out of that trip, and strongly committed
23:40
Speaker 1: to the protection of wildlife, fauna and flora. You were
23:44
Speaker 1: in the midst at this point of starting the ses.
23:49
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit more about that.
23:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we we had with us arrius, biologists, zoologists,
23:58
Speaker 5: geologists and scientific experts who wonte reports on the wildlife,
24:05
Speaker 5: and in fact, partly due to our efforts, a wildlife
24:09
Speaker 5: reserve was established on the borders of Columbia and Panama,
24:14
Speaker 5: which is still there to this day. Of course, it's
24:18
Speaker 5: not easy to get in and out there because of
24:20
Speaker 5: the problems with the illegal immigration of people coming up
24:26
Speaker 5: from South America trying to get into Central America and
24:30
Speaker 5: the United States. That I think has slowed down quite
24:37
Speaker 5: a lot thanks to President Trump's activity.
24:40
Speaker 2: On the border. And at one time there were hundreds
24:44
Speaker 2: of thousands of illegal immigrants pouring into the Darin Gap. However,
24:49
Speaker 2: as I say, I think that will slowed down now.
24:52
Speaker 2: But still it's not an easy piece of territory to
24:55
Speaker 2: go through, and so if anyone wants to go through
24:58
Speaker 2: it again, I don't really commend it. Why is that, Well,
25:04
Speaker 2: it's just it's full of a lot of the large
25:07
Speaker 2: numbers of communist gorillas, particularly the eln operating on the
25:13
Speaker 2: border fark and more or less packed up now and
25:16
Speaker 2: they've become the government of Columbia. But if you start
25:21
Speaker 2: going through the Daring Gap by yourself, you're quite likely
25:25
Speaker 2: to be taking prisoner, made into a hostage. And a
25:31
Speaker 2: number of people who come to us to ask advice
25:34
Speaker 2: on going through, and I've said I wouldn't do it,
25:37
Speaker 2: not at the moment. Also, I think it's rather good
25:42
Speaker 2: to try and leave the indigenous people who are there
25:45
Speaker 2: and to have a peaceful life. They don't want constant
25:49
Speaker 2: to being disturbed by outsiders. And of course the more
25:53
Speaker 2: people who troop through, the more wildlife will be disturbed.
25:57
Speaker 2: The road itself was completely as far as a place
26:01
Speaker 2: called ya Visa, but that still leaves today sixty miles
26:06
Speaker 2: of a swamp and mountains that have not been crossed,
26:10
Speaker 2: and I don't think ever will be because getting through
26:13
Speaker 2: that swamp is extremely difficult. Some years ago I talked
26:19
Speaker 2: to the then virtual dictator of Panama, General Omar Toreos,
26:25
Speaker 2: who was hey helpful to us on a later expedition,
26:28
Speaker 2: and I said, General, when are you're going to complete
26:32
Speaker 2: the Pan American Highway? And he shook his head and
26:36
Speaker 2: he said, I would rather have a road along my
26:40
Speaker 2: frontier rather than a coss it, because he was particularly
26:44
Speaker 2: concerned about foot and mouth disease and also even then
26:50
Speaker 2: about illegal immigration. So anyway, some good did come out
26:56
Speaker 2: of the expedition to help the local people in the wildlife.
27:02
Speaker 3: That's awesome to hear.
27:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's super important sometimes that things just
27:10
Speaker 1: be left how they are and we don't have to
27:13
Speaker 1: always be going through everywhere, right, So fantastic stuff.
27:17
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27:19
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27:24
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27:33
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28:25
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28:48
Speaker 1: But obviously this is a memorable expedition for you and
28:52
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. But is there one in
28:55
Speaker 1: addition to this that has fulfilled you the most?
28:58
Speaker 2: It was the most difficult or the expedition I've ever done.
29:06
Speaker 2: I've done a few of us, but that one was physically,
29:10
Speaker 2: I think the most difficult. We marched an awful long
29:14
Speaker 2: way and we had a great many adventures on the way.
29:19
Speaker 3: Is there another one that you find particularly memorable?
29:23
Speaker 2: Well, the first, the first big expedition that I did
29:26
Speaker 2: was the Blue Nile in Ethiopia, and that was the
29:32
Speaker 2: Peace of River that runs from Lake Tana in the
29:34
Speaker 2: north of Ethiopia down to an enormous deep gorge a
29:39
Speaker 2: mile deep all the way into the Sedan where it
29:42
Speaker 2: joins the White Nile and becomes the Nile proper. This
29:47
Speaker 2: is about five hundred miles and the gorge is a
29:50
Speaker 2: mile deep, and in nineteen sixty eight it has never
29:56
Speaker 2: been fully explored. Various people had tried explore it. There
30:00
Speaker 2: have been various expeditions, but they never completely covered the Dirly.
30:06
Speaker 2: And I was then an instructor at the Royal Military
30:10
Speaker 2: Academy at Santas, that's the British Military Academy on the
30:16
Speaker 2: like west point, and we were looked after by the
30:23
Speaker 2: Emperor of Ethiopia, his Imperial Majesty Highly Selassie, a very
30:29
Speaker 2: powerful man. And at the end we went to a
30:32
Speaker 2: reception at the palace. I never forget the reception because
30:37
Speaker 2: and to get in to see Highly Selassie you had
30:41
Speaker 2: to go through a certain procedure. There were sixty officer
30:46
Speaker 2: cadets in that expedition, and each one had to march
30:50
Speaker 2: up the red carpet, bowing three times, once at the door,
30:55
Speaker 2: once halfway at the carpet, finally just in front of
30:58
Speaker 2: the throne, and the Emperor might shake hands with you.
31:02
Speaker 2: And when you left, you were not permitted to turn
31:05
Speaker 2: your back on such a wonderful person, so you had
31:09
Speaker 2: to walk backwards up the carpet, bowing as you did.
31:13
Speaker 2: You may say that's no great problem, but the Emperor
31:17
Speaker 2: was an animal lover, and in the throne room he
31:21
Speaker 2: kept lever circulating a group of lines, so the chances
31:26
Speaker 2: of tripping over a ruddy line as you went backwards
31:28
Speaker 2: down the carpet were quite high. I asked the Minister
31:33
Speaker 2: of Court what we should do about this. Oh, he said,
31:36
Speaker 2: it's quite simple. When you're bowing to the emperor, cast
31:40
Speaker 2: yourselves down low, pressed your forehead upon the carpet. I said, hey, hey, steady,
31:47
Speaker 2: you know we're British. We don't normally do that sort
31:50
Speaker 2: of thing. But a stiff bow is normally also quiet.
31:55
Speaker 2: He said, I'm not suggesting you read obsequious. If you look,
32:01
Speaker 2: if you bow low, you can look between your legs
32:05
Speaker 2: and you will see the lines behind you. So we
32:08
Speaker 2: marched all sixty officer cadets in and out of the
32:11
Speaker 2: throne room, and highly classy then took us into the
32:15
Speaker 2: garden and said, come and see some of my other pets.
32:19
Speaker 2: And he showed us a most beautiful cheetah that was
32:24
Speaker 2: sitting there on a plinth very quietly. Unfortunately, our lady
32:30
Speaker 2: manager had got a dress which had cheetah spots all
32:35
Speaker 2: over it. So we've got a wonderful photograph of these
32:38
Speaker 2: two looking at each other and the cheetah. Much as say,
32:43
Speaker 2: where the devil did you get that dress from? The
32:50
Speaker 2: Emperor At the end said to me. You know, I
32:54
Speaker 2: would love to have my blue nile fully explored and
32:58
Speaker 2: find out about the people, minerals and so on. Well,
33:03
Speaker 2: I knew something of a reputation, and I knew that
33:06
Speaker 2: there were a great many hazards, so I nodded. I
33:10
Speaker 2: didn't commit myself. I smiled and said, of course, and
33:14
Speaker 2: back the way. But when I got back to England,
33:16
Speaker 2: my general sent for me and he said, we've had
33:19
Speaker 2: a letter from his Imperial Majesty, Highly Selassie, King of
33:25
Speaker 2: Kings chosen line of the tribe of Judah, and also
33:29
Speaker 2: a field marshal in the British Army. He wants his
33:33
Speaker 2: blue nile explored. I said, yes, well, it's very difficult
33:39
Speaker 2: and dangerous. And he said, what do you think about it?
33:41
Speaker 2: I said, well, it's full of bandits who were heavily
33:45
Speaker 2: armed and shoot at people. There are lots of enormous
33:49
Speaker 2: crocodiles that are male man eaters. There are lots of
33:53
Speaker 2: dangerous hippos. And then the size of the gorge, which
33:58
Speaker 2: is a mild deep. Tend to fall down into the
34:01
Speaker 2: gorge and leave behind deposits of radioactive gas. He said,
34:07
Speaker 2: stop it, stop it, you'll be rather negative. I don't
34:11
Speaker 2: like negative officers. What I want is to do something
34:15
Speaker 2: to be good for a soldiers' morale, challenging and worthwhile,
34:20
Speaker 2: and also help highly celeass it. So the expedition was formed.
34:24
Speaker 2: The General said to me, we can form a committee.
34:27
Speaker 2: He said, I shall be chairman and you can be
34:30
Speaker 2: the secretary. I see no need for anyone else.
34:33
Speaker 6: And so the Blue Iron Expedition with sixty or so soldiers,
34:38
Speaker 6: mostly from Britain, with some assistance from the United States
34:42
Speaker 6: Mapping Mission who were working in Ethiopia, and some Ethiopian
34:47
Speaker 6: servicemen as well, and scientists again who were to do
34:51
Speaker 6: the scientific work in the gorge and to study particularly
34:55
Speaker 6: wildlife conservation issues of affecting the area.
35:00
Speaker 2: And off we went, and of course we had to
35:03
Speaker 2: get a boat to go down there. And in those
35:07
Speaker 2: days a couple of United Nations Scandinavian employees had actually
35:12
Speaker 2: tried to go down in kayaks. They'd both been wrecked,
35:15
Speaker 2: and a Swiss expedition had also tried to go down
35:19
Speaker 2: in kayaks and they'd been shot up by the bandits
35:22
Speaker 2: and two of them killed. So it was a hazardous area.
35:26
Speaker 2: But by taking soldiers who were carrying weapons, of course,
35:30
Speaker 2: we decided that we had to go down using some
35:34
Speaker 2: sort of boat, and we reckoned that our bubble boat
35:38
Speaker 2: might have a better chance. And I went to the
35:41
Speaker 2: Avon company, who produced them in England, and I said,
35:45
Speaker 2: you know, we want to go down the worst river
35:47
Speaker 2: in the world, full of enormous cataracts, and we thought
35:52
Speaker 2: we might take some of your yachting tenders and they said,
35:56
Speaker 2: all right, well, we'll lend you run to try out.
35:59
Speaker 2: And we took the yachting tender to a weir in
36:04
Speaker 2: Whales and we put the boat over the weir about
36:08
Speaker 2: thirty or forty times, and we didn't manage the punctry.
36:12
Speaker 2: So to be really certain, we designed a rubber boat
36:17
Speaker 2: with very thick skins, and we also we also put
36:22
Speaker 2: football bladders inside the tubes to especially large valve so
36:28
Speaker 2: that there were like tubes and in tubes. So this
36:32
Speaker 2: thing was virtually unthinkable. And we got six of these
36:36
Speaker 2: inflatable boats from the Avon company and we would used those,
36:41
Speaker 2: and also on some stretches of the Blue Nile where
36:46
Speaker 2: the rapids were not quite so dangerous, we took wild
36:50
Speaker 2: Engineer and Aliminium AsSalt boats powered by forty horsepower engines,
36:55
Speaker 2: and this expedition went off in July of nineteen sixty eight.
37:02
Speaker 2: What we knew would be a problem, of course, happened.
37:06
Speaker 2: We ran into the bandits. We ended up having a
37:09
Speaker 2: couple of gunfights with them. They luckily we survived. We
37:13
Speaker 2: also had problems with crocodiles, and it was the most
37:17
Speaker 2: adventurous expedition I've ever done. Sadly, one of our members
37:22
Speaker 2: was drowned and several other was injured. But the nile
37:27
Speaker 2: was surveyed and we went back to Hayley Selassie and
37:31
Speaker 2: told him that his job had been done. And again
37:36
Speaker 2: the film, the film is The film is still on
37:38
Speaker 2: YouTube about the Blue Nile.
37:42
Speaker 1: I loved in your books. Some of them have the
37:45
Speaker 1: QR code that you can scan and it'll take you
37:47
Speaker 1: from the story to YouTube to see the video, the
37:50
Speaker 1: video of the expedition. So that that's really helpful to
37:55
Speaker 1: be able to read your words and then go and
37:56
Speaker 1: see it in motion. Yeah.
38:00
Speaker 3: Wow.
38:01
Speaker 1: What advice do you have, like expedition advice in terms
38:05
Speaker 1: of leadership, because you've led so many expeditions and managing
38:09
Speaker 1: that number of people, what are your top tips regarding
38:14
Speaker 1: expedition leadership?
38:17
Speaker 2: Well, you have to pick your team pretty carefully, and
38:20
Speaker 2: you want people who are compatible. So we have a
38:23
Speaker 2: form of selection tests and so on. And later on
38:26
Speaker 2: when we created operations Drake and Valley, we enlarged all
38:31
Speaker 2: these tests to make sure that people were compatible and
38:34
Speaker 2: also that they were fit and they communicate and so on.
38:38
Speaker 2: And I think it's the first thing is to get
38:40
Speaker 2: a good team, and then obviously you get the best
38:43
Speaker 2: equipment you can. Well, I know the Overland Journal is
38:47
Speaker 2: always showing new equipments being tested and so on, and
38:50
Speaker 2: I always read the Overland Journal with great care looking
38:54
Speaker 2: at this all this new equipment, wishing I had some
38:57
Speaker 2: of it. So I think it's good equipment, good clothing. Force.
39:01
Speaker 2: In the Daring Gap we had the best clothing and
39:04
Speaker 2: booths that were available at the time. But of course
39:07
Speaker 2: when we did the Blue Nile and to make the
39:09
Speaker 2: map the we didn't have sat naves and things. In
39:14
Speaker 2: those days. We used to use a shield light. I
39:17
Speaker 2: remember in the Daring Gap when we these surveyor was
39:21
Speaker 2: using the shield light. I said to him one night,
39:24
Speaker 2: where do you reckon we are? And he looked at
39:27
Speaker 2: his readings he said, well, according to me, we're about
39:31
Speaker 2: two miles south of Hawaii, and I said, and he said,
39:36
Speaker 2: I better get back to my reading. So it was
39:39
Speaker 2: we were doing all our and the map map making
39:43
Speaker 2: using sheild lights and the stars. Now, of course you
39:47
Speaker 2: have SAT naves and GPS and so on, so technically
39:52
Speaker 2: things have moved forward a great deal. But I would
39:57
Speaker 2: say good equipment, good people. And people often asked me
40:02
Speaker 2: would we have taken range rovers through the Daring Gap
40:06
Speaker 2: of choice. Well, at the time, we believed the public
40:10
Speaker 2: relations you know, the story that these were the finest
40:13
Speaker 2: four wheel drive vehicles in the world. In fact, probably
40:17
Speaker 2: something very very light and portable like an early jeep
40:24
Speaker 2: or a land rover would have been a better vehicle
40:27
Speaker 2: to have tackled it with because you could have handled it,
40:32
Speaker 2: and certainly the land rover was a much easier vehicle
40:37
Speaker 2: to handle. Getting through the Darron Gap. We had to
40:40
Speaker 2: have various items of equipment with it, of course, and
40:43
Speaker 2: we did have a special raft made by Avon again,
40:48
Speaker 2: so that this raft could be folded up and put
40:51
Speaker 2: in the back of the range Rover and then inflated
40:54
Speaker 2: and the range River could be put on top of
40:56
Speaker 2: the raft. And to cost the many rivers that we
40:59
Speaker 2: had to cause we also had letters made of aluminium
41:03
Speaker 2: that could be used to create bridges and so on
41:06
Speaker 2: for getting up ravines and across some of the chasms.
41:10
Speaker 2: But again it goes back to good equipment, and of
41:13
Speaker 2: course the inflatable boats on the Blue Nile and the
41:16
Speaker 2: Scientific Exploration Society has a reputation for testing out new
41:22
Speaker 2: equipment and using it and writing very honest reports about
41:26
Speaker 2: whether it's good or not. And even today we're getting
41:30
Speaker 2: new equipment and thought this can vary from simple things
41:34
Speaker 2: like watches. We had a watch with us on the
41:38
Speaker 2: Dying Gap made by Zennis, the Swiss company, and they
41:42
Speaker 2: sent six of them with us. They were automatic El
41:45
Speaker 2: Premeiro watches, and they proved to be really excellent, and
41:49
Speaker 2: again it helped to launch this new watch. Other items
41:54
Speaker 2: of equipment we tested, of course in the recent years,
41:57
Speaker 2: of clothing like gortex. One of our early expeditions some
42:02
Speaker 2: of the first to test Gordics, which we still use
42:05
Speaker 2: to this day. And then there were things like boots.
42:09
Speaker 2: Boots were terribly important and we're still using a very
42:14
Speaker 2: similar jungle boot to the one we used in the
42:17
Speaker 2: Daring Gap, which was an American design, and the one
42:20
Speaker 2: I wear at the moment is actually Japanese, but the
42:24
Speaker 2: American Army jungle boot is still one of the best.
42:28
Speaker 2: And then there's various other items of clothing equipment. I
42:34
Speaker 2: always wore a pith helmet, which is a very useful
42:38
Speaker 2: helmet to wear. People think it's a bit showy, but
42:41
Speaker 2: when I was riding a mule through the end of
42:45
Speaker 2: the Daring Gap, the mule tripped on a vine and
42:50
Speaker 2: I was thrown over the head of the mule into
42:53
Speaker 2: a tree, headfirst. And if I hadn't had a pith
42:57
Speaker 2: helmet on, I would have cracked my skull. And as
43:00
Speaker 2: it was, the pith helmet back to the crash helmet.
43:03
Speaker 2: And they also keep the sun off you, and I
43:10
Speaker 2: found them very good for carrying things too, like eggs,
43:13
Speaker 2: or even if you were collecting snakes, you could put
43:16
Speaker 2: the snake in the top of the pith helmet. The
43:20
Speaker 2: one problem occurred to us on one occasion when we
43:24
Speaker 2: were signing to our army air called Beaver Aircraft to
43:28
Speaker 2: drop some supplices, and they said, how will we know
43:32
Speaker 2: where you are? And I said, it's all right. I
43:34
Speaker 2: shall be standing in the middle of the clear and
43:36
Speaker 2: you will recognize me because I'm wearing the white pith helmet.
43:40
Speaker 2: So they said fine, okay, yeah, we can see you.
43:43
Speaker 2: And they didn't come. That's all I said on the radio,
43:46
Speaker 2: where were you? And they said, oh, we saw you.
43:49
Speaker 2: We dropped the supplies down to you. We then discovered
43:55
Speaker 2: that a number of local people in the Panama area
43:59
Speaker 2: wore pith helm as well, so lots of people got
44:02
Speaker 2: some free beer thanks to that, and not me, no way.
44:10
Speaker 2: But there were say all sorts of thing. Radio equipment,
44:13
Speaker 2: of course, was very important. We didn't have very good radios.
44:19
Speaker 2: Everything had to be done with skywid of aerials, and
44:23
Speaker 2: communication was already a problem. There were no mobile phones
44:27
Speaker 2: in those days. And of course when you were going
44:31
Speaker 2: back earlier into the Blue Nile expedition, we had sas
44:37
Speaker 2: radios that would send like a telex message. You had
44:43
Speaker 2: to type this out on a tape and put it
44:45
Speaker 2: through and then zip you sent the message through that way.
44:50
Speaker 2: We couldn't do it directly by voice. I remember doing
44:55
Speaker 2: on another expedition on the Congo River in nineteen seventy four.
45:01
Speaker 2: We had an enormous radio set and that with one
45:05
Speaker 2: hundred foot aerial and they had to be set up
45:08
Speaker 2: on top of a hill to reach England. We could
45:11
Speaker 2: then talk by talk by radio to England. But it
45:17
Speaker 2: was quite a business setting all this up, and the
45:20
Speaker 2: BBC wanted to do a boad carth so they arranged
45:24
Speaker 2: for us to call them and I climbed up the hill,
45:27
Speaker 2: got on the radio and got to to the Royal
45:30
Speaker 2: Signals detachment somewhere in England and then I said, we're
45:34
Speaker 2: going to connect you now to the BBC. So after
45:38
Speaker 2: the clicking and squeaking, we got through to the BBC
45:41
Speaker 2: in London and the girl said BBC, I said, will
45:46
Speaker 2: you connect me to the Today program?
45:49
Speaker 1: Ah?
45:49
Speaker 2: She said, the lines engaged. You'll have to call back.
45:52
Speaker 2: I said, mother, I'm in the middle of Africa, standing
45:56
Speaker 2: on a hill in a rainstorm. But she said, well
45:59
Speaker 2: you've still got a call back. So all that's changed
46:02
Speaker 2: of course now with satellite phones and so on. Yeah.
46:08
Speaker 1: Even speaking to you now from Kyrgyzstan, Wow, times have changed.
46:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
46:16
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you about the SEES and for
46:18
Speaker 1: those listeners that aren't familiar with the SEES, what it
46:22
Speaker 1: is and what do you do and what are some
46:25
Speaker 1: expeditions that are coming up?
46:28
Speaker 2: Well, the Scientific Expansion Society was set up after the
46:32
Speaker 2: Blue Nile because we had been passing charitable donations through
46:37
Speaker 2: various army funds and my general said to me, you
46:40
Speaker 2: know you can't keep doing this. You must see proper
46:44
Speaker 2: charitable status. So we set up the SEES as a
46:49
Speaker 2: registered company and a charity with the permission of the
46:52
Speaker 2: Charity Commissioners in London, and aim at really bringing together
46:59
Speaker 2: the servicemen of the various nations who were doing expeditions
47:03
Speaker 2: with the scientists of those nations. In particular, we were
47:07
Speaker 2: supported by the Natural History Museum in London, and we
47:12
Speaker 2: had links of course with the Smithsonian and others in America,
47:16
Speaker 2: and so a lot of these scientists were only too
47:20
Speaker 2: glad to have an opportunity to go to distant, difficult
47:24
Speaker 2: countries with all expenses paid, and perhaps using service aircraft
47:29
Speaker 2: or service ships to get there and so on. And
47:32
Speaker 2: so this brought together servicemen and civilians in the course
47:36
Speaker 2: of the environment, in particular wildlife and helping people, and
47:42
Speaker 2: this course has gradually moved on. I'm also now the
47:46
Speaker 2: president of another charity called Just the Job, which is
47:51
Speaker 2: a water charity that puts in wells and various features
47:56
Speaker 2: for indigenous people all over the world. They work here
47:59
Speaker 2: and they head quarters of the SEES as well. We
48:02
Speaker 2: do great work in helping people who need clean water
48:06
Speaker 2: and after I always think that's one of the greatest luxury.
48:09
Speaker 2: Somebody once asked me what is the one thing you
48:13
Speaker 2: miss on an expedition, and I said, it's being able
48:16
Speaker 2: to turn on a tap and drink the water that
48:19
Speaker 2: comes out of it without having to think about boiling
48:23
Speaker 2: and purifying and some and so water is one of
48:27
Speaker 2: our important aims. But the SEES also backs young people.
48:34
Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy seven, the Prince of Wales, as he
48:40
Speaker 2: then wret of course he's now our king, and had
48:45
Speaker 2: heard that we'd taken a couple of young people on
48:49
Speaker 2: the Congo River expedition largtually there were three of them.
48:52
Speaker 2: There were two from the Islands of Jersey and one
48:55
Speaker 2: from America. And we've given these youngsters the opportunity of
48:59
Speaker 2: a life on condition that on return to their home
49:05
Speaker 2: countries they went around talking and lectrink and inspiring other
49:09
Speaker 2: young people with the same sort of Elizabethan's spirit of
49:13
Speaker 2: adventure and doing something for the environment and the people
49:17
Speaker 2: of the world. The Prince said, if you can do
49:19
Speaker 2: this with two or three young people, why can't you
49:22
Speaker 2: do this with two or three hundreds. He recently made
49:26
Speaker 2: a speech in London where he talked about young men
49:30
Speaker 2: and women needing the face the challenges of war in peacetime,
49:35
Speaker 2: and nobody wants a war, but if you can give
49:39
Speaker 2: young people those sort of challenges, perhaps you can do
49:42
Speaker 2: something for their character, on condition that they come back
49:46
Speaker 2: and do something to help in their communities. So he
49:49
Speaker 2: asked me if I would draw up a plan, and
49:53
Speaker 2: I decided that it was because we were coming up
49:56
Speaker 2: to the four hundredth anniversary of Sir Francist circumnavigation of
50:01
Speaker 2: the world, and we would call it Operation Drake. And
50:05
Speaker 2: the Prince said, well, I'll be patron. What can I
50:08
Speaker 2: do to help? And I said, well, perhaps you could
50:10
Speaker 2: write a few letters for me, and he wrote one
50:13
Speaker 2: to Walter Allenberg, who had been the American ambassador in London,
50:19
Speaker 2: was a great anger file. And I went to see
50:23
Speaker 2: Walter Annenberger his rancho mirage in California, and I told it,
50:29
Speaker 2: showed him the letter from the Prince, and it said,
50:32
Speaker 2: I seem to remember that Francis Drake managed to elicited
50:36
Speaker 2: a little royal support if the proceeds from his piracy
50:42
Speaker 2: were forthcoming. And Walter Adenberg clok, this was a great story,
50:49
Speaker 2: and he gave me one hundred thousand dollars and with
50:52
Speaker 2: that we formed Operation Drake, which was to take young
50:57
Speaker 2: men and women aged seven teens is twenty five in
51:02
Speaker 2: a beautiful brigantine around the world. Every three months we
51:06
Speaker 2: were taking a new crew when we recruited large numbers
51:10
Speaker 2: of people from all over the world. In fact, when
51:13
Speaker 2: the Prince went on television and told everyone that they
51:17
Speaker 2: were fit, compatible, could speak English and could swim, they
51:22
Speaker 2: could have this opportunity of a lifetime, fifty eight thousand applied.
51:28
Speaker 2: I can only take four hundred, and that's what we did.
51:32
Speaker 2: And we took four hundred but a period of two years,
51:36
Speaker 2: some from America, some from Britain, some from Canada and
51:39
Speaker 2: all other countries Australia and New Zealand and Europe and
51:42
Speaker 2: so and Prince launched it. The film is also on YouTube,
51:47
Speaker 2: and it was a great success. And the young people
51:51
Speaker 2: then went around the world giving this help and assistance
51:55
Speaker 2: and coming back to do what they could to help
51:58
Speaker 2: in their communities. Halfway around the world. His rold Heinez
52:03
Speaker 2: said to me, you can't stop now, humust enlarged it,
52:07
Speaker 2: make it bigger, make it four thousand young people. And
52:12
Speaker 2: so Operation Valley was started, and we commemorated the founding
52:17
Speaker 2: by Sir Walter Valley of the first colony that was
52:20
Speaker 2: set up in the United States in what is now
52:23
Speaker 2: North Carolina. Sadly it didn't last long, but that was
52:28
Speaker 2: the first one. So operational Rally was set up. We
52:31
Speaker 2: had an office in Rally in North Carolina, an American committee,
52:36
Speaker 2: a Canadian committee, and a great deal of help from
52:39
Speaker 2: the across the Atlantic, and this time we took four thousand.
52:45
Speaker 2: At the end of that all the sponsors who've been
52:48
Speaker 2: helping were so pleased with it. They said, you can't
52:51
Speaker 2: stop now, make it bigger. And so by this time
52:55
Speaker 2: it had outgrown the Scientific Exploration Society and we formed
52:59
Speaker 2: a separate charity called Rally International, which goes on today
53:05
Speaker 2: taking young people, and so far fifty eight thousand young
53:09
Speaker 2: people have been through the program from all over the world.
53:13
Speaker 2: It's now very much an international body, with committees in
53:18
Speaker 2: the States and committees in Canada and Central America, some
53:22
Speaker 2: of them being run by locals for nstance. I visited
53:25
Speaker 2: one in Costa Rica the other day where the local
53:29
Speaker 2: leader is a Nicoaguan who'd been on a valley. And
53:32
Speaker 2: so the young people are coming back and now organizing
53:36
Speaker 2: things themselves, and of course we're having a great reunion
53:40
Speaker 2: next year in twenty twenty seven, when we hope as
53:43
Speaker 2: many will get together in England and hopefully the King
53:47
Speaker 2: might come and then we will see some of these
53:50
Speaker 2: people of course now and they're figs who've gone on
53:53
Speaker 2: to life. They have been tremendous success stories. One of
53:58
Speaker 2: them in particular I remember was that the lady who
54:03
Speaker 2: is Britain's representative at the United Nations, Dame Barbara Woodwood.
54:08
Speaker 2: She was an eighteen year old with us. Another one
54:12
Speaker 2: I remember when I went to Alaska on one occasion
54:15
Speaker 2: to visit one of the teams that our American colleagues
54:18
Speaker 2: were money and they just done a kayak trip down
54:22
Speaker 2: the river. I congratulated them and said, now you've done this,
54:26
Speaker 2: you can reach for the stars. And one of them did,
54:30
Speaker 2: and that is Tep called Major Tim Peak, who is
54:33
Speaker 2: an astronaut. So we have developed all these young people
54:37
Speaker 2: who've gone on a success Another one won Oscars with
54:42
Speaker 2: film production of Hollywood and others have taken enormous steps
54:46
Speaker 2: in medical science. And this is out of the fifty
54:50
Speaker 2: eight thousand who've been through it. So sees today and
54:55
Speaker 2: finds money to help young people to go on Operation
54:59
Speaker 2: Valley International as it's now called, and also to help
55:04
Speaker 2: various other young people who are trying to do worthwhile experience,
55:08
Speaker 2: not necessarily on malic but anything. And we've had young
55:12
Speaker 2: men and women going around the world doing worthwhile things
55:17
Speaker 2: with funding that we put up. So that is our
55:20
Speaker 2: main name. Now, it's assist becoming generations to do some
55:25
Speaker 2: work like we did as younger men. I'm getting on
55:29
Speaker 2: a bit now and although I managed to do the
55:32
Speaker 2: occasional expedition, I did one last year in Costa Rica
55:36
Speaker 2: and we've got more planned. But what we're trying to
55:39
Speaker 2: do is to encourage the new generations to do the
55:42
Speaker 2: same thing.
55:45
Speaker 1: Wonderful, hey, fantastic stuff. Where are you going next?
55:53
Speaker 2: Well and not so we've just done this expedition in
55:55
Speaker 2: Costa Rica. The film has just gone on YouTube. It's
55:59
Speaker 2: an interesting one because some years ago we helped a
56:03
Speaker 2: program to use waste plastic in the beaches of Kenya
56:08
Speaker 2: to build boats and that's been a huge success. So
56:12
Speaker 2: I decided, seeing the waste plastic on the beaches of
56:15
Speaker 2: Costa Rica, that maybe we could use some of that
56:19
Speaker 2: to do something for the conservation there. And as you
56:23
Speaker 2: probably know, the constantly Ricans are fairly key in conservationists,
56:29
Speaker 2: so we agreed to build a bridge or rebuild one
56:33
Speaker 2: that had been built previously, and we use waste plastic,
56:37
Speaker 2: including waste Nicaraguan banknotes which we made into planks, and
56:43
Speaker 2: with that we built a new bridge as an entrance
56:46
Speaker 2: into the Krocovala Park on the Pacific coasts of the
56:51
Speaker 2: Osa Peninsula in Costa Rica, and that's been a huge success.
56:56
Speaker 2: Interestingly started there by a young girl who was on
57:01
Speaker 2: operational Mallet when she was eighteen, but she's gone out
57:05
Speaker 2: to Costa Rica and she had founded a lodge called
57:09
Speaker 2: the Lunar Lodge in the USA Peninsula. And Lana Widmore
57:14
Speaker 2: was with me in Australia all those years ago, but
57:18
Speaker 2: her one ambition was to do something to help in
57:21
Speaker 2: the rainforest and she's built this amazing lodge which is
57:25
Speaker 2: now one of the top lodges in the Americas where
57:29
Speaker 2: people can go and do yoga and study and eat
57:32
Speaker 2: herbs and all sorts of things. There's a wonderful website
57:35
Speaker 2: about it, and the film of the expedition is on
57:39
Speaker 2: YouTube now.
57:43
Speaker 1: Amazing stuff, wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing all
57:49
Speaker 1: this with us today. It's been so interesting. I've loved
57:52
Speaker 1: the storytelling. And if folks are interested, where can they
57:57
Speaker 1: find more about you and the sea and all of
58:00
Speaker 1: the projects you're involved online.
58:02
Speaker 3: You mentioned the YouTube channel, but.
58:05
Speaker 2: Well, the ESEs has a website. I have a website
58:09
Speaker 2: and also there's YouTube and if you look up the
58:12
Speaker 2: JBS channel on the website and I'll find a lot
58:16
Speaker 2: of information there. And there are over forty films of
58:20
Speaker 2: our expeditions. Are there.
58:24
Speaker 3: Perfect watching.
58:25
Speaker 1: We'll have a little view party tonight in the camper
58:28
Speaker 1: in Kyrgyzstan and check those out.
58:30
Speaker 2: Of some of your listeners want to join the SES,
58:34
Speaker 2: and we welcome Americans in particular. We now have an chairman,
58:39
Speaker 2: the Peace of Felix, who is an Anglo American. He
58:42
Speaker 2: lives in Miami and he's encouraging the friends of SS
58:47
Speaker 2: in America and we have got a number of American members.
58:52
Speaker 2: So if anyone in America wants to join the ses.
58:56
Speaker 2: Please get in touch with me. I'll give them the
58:59
Speaker 2: right details.
59:01
Speaker 3: Fantastic. What are some prerequisites that are required to join
59:08
Speaker 3: the FES.
59:09
Speaker 2: Like worthwhile challenging adventure. I would say the sort of
59:14
Speaker 2: thing that the Overland Journal people did. I mean, it's
59:20
Speaker 2: as long as it's doing something for mankind and you
59:24
Speaker 2: believe in the environment, the wildlife, fighting disease. We've got
59:29
Speaker 2: to be prepared to assist the world. Not to think
59:32
Speaker 2: of yourself, but think what can I do to make
59:34
Speaker 2: the world a slightly better place?
59:39
Speaker 3: And you have trips that some of the members can join,
59:42
Speaker 3: is that right?
59:44
Speaker 2: Yes, we'll members join all the expeditions and we have
59:48
Speaker 2: regular meetings in London and we have some regular ones
59:51
Speaker 2: in America too. We've had various eminent Americans who joined recently,
59:56
Speaker 2: and there's a lady from Hawaii who whispers the shocks
1:00:01
Speaker 2: just become one of our Keen members and you probably
1:00:04
Speaker 2: know about that stick.
1:00:06
Speaker 3: That's great. So we'll include all of those links in
1:00:09
Speaker 3: the show notes.
1:00:10
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to say thank you so much
1:00:12
Speaker 1: for taking the time to speak with us about your
1:00:15
Speaker 1: expedition experience or a tiny sliver of it, and what
1:00:19
Speaker 1: you've been up to lately and all of the great
1:00:22
Speaker 1: causes moving forward for young people today.
1:00:24
Speaker 3: So thanks John so much for joining me and taking
1:00:27
Speaker 3: the time.
1:00:28
Speaker 2: Thank you Ashley, Well let us know what the link is.
1:00:31
Speaker 2: I'd love to watch it when you've.
1:00:33
Speaker 3: Done it, of course, of course, thank you, thank you,
1:00:38
Speaker 3: thank you.
1:00:38
Speaker 2: For the magazines that have wived yesterday, and thank you
1:00:41
Speaker 2: for the review of our books of course.
1:00:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, the listeners should definitely check out.
1:00:47
Speaker 1: You have a wonderful selection of books that goes through
1:00:50
Speaker 1: a lot of your expeditions and they are great reading,
1:00:53
Speaker 1: on the edge of your.
1:00:54
Speaker 3: Seat stuff, great stuff. Well.
1:00:57
Speaker 1: Shout out to the Overland Journal podcast listeners for joining
1:01:00
Speaker 1: today's episode, and thank you John again, and we'll catch
1:01:04
Speaker 1: you all next time.
1:01:06
Speaker 2: Look at all the best you hmm. Stop