Latest / Kustom Conversations / Sack Counts, Loud Stadium Roars, and Homes | Bill Maas Interview | EP. 05

Transcript

Sack Counts, Loud Stadium Roars, and Homes | Bill Maas Interview | EP. 05 · Kustom Conversations

• 0:00
  Casi Joy: It's 1990.
• 0:01
  Casi Joy: You're playing against the Broncos, and there is a moment where John Elway finally tells the ref, like, this crowd is too loud.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: The crowd noise was blistering.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: My ears, I still have issues.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: They're still ringing.
• 0:14
  Casi Joy: And the ref gets over the mic.
• 0:16
  Casi Joy: Erwad, you're too loud if you don't quiet down.
• 0:18
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Elway comes out of the huddle.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: The crowd gets even louder.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can't imagine it.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't imagine it got any louder.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: It did.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: It got louder.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And Lway's like looking back at the ref, and that ref's like, go.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way I'm telling this crowd they lost the timeout.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: He would never be able to get out of the tunnel, out of the stadium.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: It would have been so the crowd just like called his bluff.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Every story is different.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Every episode is custom.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Get ready to pull back the curtain on your favorite artists, athletes, and entertainers.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Cassie Joy, and this is Custom Conversations.
• 0:54
  Casi Joy: Welcome back to Custom Conversations.
• 0:57
  Casi Joy: Today's guest was the fifth overall pick in the 1984 NFL draft.
• 1:02
  Casi Joy: He became the first Chief ever to win NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year, went on to make two Pro Bowls, and spent nine seasons anchoring Kansas City's defensive line.
• 1:15
  Casi Joy: Just last year, he was inducted into the Chiefs Hall of Fame, and somehow football is only part of his story.
• 1:23
  Casi Joy: Bill Moss, welcome to Custom Conversations.
• 1:26
  Casi Joy: Thank you, Cash.
• 1:27
  Casi Joy: Yes.
• 1:28
  Casi Joy: So excited to have you.
• 1:31
  Casi Joy: Hey, no, but no, you're still the legend that you are, no matter how much time has passed.
• 1:37
  Casi Joy: And being in the in the Hall of Fame now, man, it's so exciting.
• 1:41
  Casi Joy: But so you are on 810 quite a bit, right?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 810 sports.
• 1:46
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 1:47
  Casi Joy: So we can hear you talking about the Chiefs today and everything, kind of whenever we want to, but we don't usually hear you talk about you and growing up in your early days.
• 1:59
  Casi Joy: So I did a total deep dive on you and found out, yeah, so much information.
• 2:04
  Casi Joy: Um, and the first thing that I found was that your parents originally didn't even want you playing football.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:12
  Casi Joy: Why not?
• 2:13
  Casi Joy: Um something about all the head collisions or what?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, nobody knew anything about that then.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was uh it was more along the lines that uh people that were close to them and their families, neighbors, friends whose sons had played football ended up with knee injuries.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they just thought that it was just too dangerous to risk.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so it was like okay, at first it was okay, and then I get into junior high, and I'm the tallest kid in the class, and the coach is asking me to come out, and I'm like, I can't, my mom won't let me.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well that didn't go over real well, right?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then finally I just went and pleaded to them, yeah, hey, can you know I play all these other sports?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, can I just try to play football?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh for me and them, it was the best decision we made.
• 3:06
  Casi Joy: Yeah, were you pretty natural at it right away?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:08
  Casi Joy: Nice, nice.
• 3:09
  Casi Joy: So yeah, you didn't even start playing organized football until high school.
• 3:15
  Casi Joy: So how does a kid who starts that late end up being the fifth overall draft pick?
• 3:22
  Casi Joy: Was it all just natural, just God given talent, or was it hard work or proving your parents that it was both, it was a combination of both.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I my friend, we believe that looking back uh on life, like there's a reason for everything.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not just you didn't just do this, right?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was kind of laid out and a plan that came to into place.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: But um you know, I I remember the first time I put on the helmet and shoulder pads, I was a freshman, uh, and you know, we're out there and doing some drill Oklahoma.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what Oklahoma drill was.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go through like Pop Warner like the other kids did and all that stuff.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I laid on my back and got jumped up and just stuck the guy, and people were it was yeah, it was just it just instinctive.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Nice was inherited in me.
• 4:11
  Casi Joy: So yeah, how quick did your parents come around of like, oh, he's got something here.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's that's the funny part.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they they were adamant about me not playing.
• 4:22
  Casi Joy: Um like they still don't want me to play.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they then you know I played in high school and you just carry and then all the all the letters and the recruiting aspect of it.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think they enjoyed that too.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um coaches coming to the house and courting them and all the experience of travel and meeting all these people and um yeah, it was it was it was a great experience to go through the recruiting process and then through the NFL, um, coming to all the games and traveling and doing that stuff, and they were part of it.
• 4:54
  Casi Joy: So that's so cool.
• 4:55
  Casi Joy: Yeah, just to like completely change their minds, but like in the most beautiful way of like look at what it became.
• 5:02
  Casi Joy: Yeah, that is so cool.
• 5:03
  Casi Joy: So you started, I think in high school you were playing tight end, yeah, right?
• 5:09
  Casi Joy: And then you switched to defense.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I played both ways in high school.
• 5:14
  Casi Joy: And is that weird to play both at one time or not in high school?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So not in high school, I don't think.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was just and uh I I think you now everything's gets so specialized, right?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's a specialist.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um we played everything back then, you know.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: You'd played basketball, you wrestled, you played baseball, you everything, everything you play offense, defense was.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was in the band.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I marched at halftime.
• 5:40
  Casi Joy: What'd you play in the band?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I played the trumpet.
• 5:42
  unknown: What?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:43
  Casi Joy: Oh, that's so cool.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh so we did everything.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was just that's what you did back then.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't have to be a specialist.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I played both ways, and a lot of schools recruited me to be a tight end in college.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh and Pittsburgh recruited me and they wanted me to play defense and wow.
• 6:02
  Casi Joy: Yeah, let's talk, let's move on to college.
• 6:04
  Casi Joy: So you went to Pitt Um, and most people know you as the all-American football player, but you were also, I think I found an academic all-American too.
• 6:17
  Casi Joy: So you're a little smarty, right?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you maybe.
• 6:20
  Casi Joy: Maybe, but you made the dean's list, right?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hey.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: When I applied.
• 6:24
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was tough.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not kidding you.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that back then when you had an acad uh football scholarship and you had to go to class and you had to carry 15, 18 credits a semester, uh, and you had the demands and had the demands of playing football and practice and meeting rooms and weightlifting and training and uh film meetings and all those things.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, we had to become like a night student, you know, because your day was occupied with with the activities of of athletics.
• 7:05
  Christian Okoye: Right.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so you would take classes maybe early in the morning if you could get them and then late at night.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're trying to fit pick those classes that you need for your curriculum to try to to try to graduate.
• 7:16
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was a challenge.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I still think that uh playing at that time in college and graduating in four years was that was quite a feat.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:30
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 7:30
  Casi Joy: What?
• 7:31
  Casi Joy: So something that I could not find, and I am a female.
• 7:35
  Casi Joy: We are naturally detectives online.
• 7:38
  Casi Joy: I could not find your major anywhere.
• 7:40
  Casi Joy: What was your major?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was a doctor.
• 7:42
  Casi Joy: Yeah, I figured.
• 7:43
  Casi Joy: I'll leave it at that.
• 7:44
  Casi Joy: Look at him.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, uh I I did I was administrative justice, um, pre-law.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: I always wanted to psychology.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I always thought I was maybe going to be a lawyer.
• 8:01
  Casi Joy: So you're like healthy.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was just a good arguer, arguer.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was just good at arguing.
• 8:06
  Casi Joy: I love that.
• 8:07
  Casi Joy: So so if you weren't if if football had never worked out, you don't know if you would have gone pre- or law or I don't know.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I I don't even know.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I tried to replay that just in in my mind and head, like what what in the world would you have done?
• 8:23
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I have no idea what path I would have gone down.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but my my focus was the playing aspect of it.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: The other side was kind of secondary.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: But for some guys like a major for some guys in in in college, they know I and I I could see those guys.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I knew them in the locker room.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Their focus was the schoolwork.
• 8:49
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was kind of a backup for me, maybe a parachute.
• 8:54
  Casi Joy: Yeah, you're just in case.
• 8:57
  Casi Joy: Um okay, so at Pitt, I was reading that you thought the coach was trying to get you to lose your scholarship.
• 9:05
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 9:05
  Casi Joy: Because your freshman year, he's throwing you against Mark May, Russ Grimm, and Jimbo Covert.
• 9:12
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Casi Joy: And would made you go make you go like best of three or something.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's how we'd start off practice every day.
• 9:17
  Casi Joy: Yeah, and they end up being like elite NFL linemen.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they're all in the Hall of Fame.
• 9:22
  Casi Joy: So I mean it's And you're this itty bitty freshman.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I really did, and Jackie Sherrow, but he saw something in me that I didn't see.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that's a kind of a message I'd when I talk to kids, younger kids, and the coach doesn't like me.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hear that a lot, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or they they find reasons to quit.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they're looking for instant success or r instant reward.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I just try to tell them I like maybe they see something in you that you don't see.
• 9:54
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: That you don't know you even have.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And pushing you to that point, which he did, he kind of broke me.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: But to this day, he keeps in contact with me.
• 10:03
  Christian Okoye: Oh my god.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Jackie texts me regularly and calls and drops a message.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um I had him in for my Hall of Fame induction with the Chiefs.
• 10:14
  Casi Joy: That's so cool.
• 10:15
  Casi Joy: Yeah, I think I read that.
• 10:17
  Casi Joy: Um then once like you get to the NFL, you're like, man, these guys aren't as tough as what I was like going against in college.
• 10:23
  Casi Joy: Like he really set you up for success.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, some of the guys I've I've played against.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was it was just a fact.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't I'm not denigrating anybody or anything, but some of the people I practiced against or or played against in games, it wasn't like going against those guys.
• 10:39
  Casi Joy: Man, what a great coach.
• 10:41
  Casi Joy: So it's your senior year, you're playing against Tennessee, and they ran the ball 42 times, and 36 of those runs went away from you.
• 10:52
  Casi Joy: Did you realize in that time that they were like completely trying to avoid you because you were so just a beast?
• 10:59
  Casi Joy: Yeah, you can it mean were you like, hey guys, hello, I'm not even sure.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: It also made me realize that how important it is to have players beside you that can make you great.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can take somebody out of the equation very easily.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you but if you have somebody else on the other side that they can't do that to, now it poses a real problem.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and when I got to the NFL, uh I had that.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I had Mike Bell and Art Still, and you know, I played with them for three or four years, and then I get Derek Thomas and Neil Smith.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you can't what are you gonna do when you have that combination surrounding you?
• 11:39
  Casi Joy: Right.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can't you can't take one away.
• 11:42
  Casi Joy: Exactly.
• 11:42
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 11:43
  Casi Joy: So at that point, like, was making an offense avoid you almost more satisfying than getting a tackle yourself?
• 11:51
  Casi Joy: Were you like you're scared of me?
• 11:54
  Casi Joy: No, no, you'd rather tackle.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you wanted to make it.
• 11:56
  Casi Joy: Well, because you want the stats.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you want to make plays.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you're but you just whatever it is you do, that's what you you want to do.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: You want to make you want to make tackles, you want to make sacks, you want to be disruptive, you want to help change the course of the game.
• 12:10
  Casi Joy: Totally.
• 12:11
  Casi Joy: So I thought this was a really interesting little like full circle story that John Makavic tried to recruit you out of high school for Wake Forest, yeah, but you said no and chose Pitt, and then years later, he is part of recruiting you or drafting you to the NFL to the Kansas City Chiefs.
• 12:33
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 12:33
  Casi Joy: Did you guys ever get to talk about that?
• 12:35
  Casi Joy: Like, was he ever like, finally gotcha?
• 12:37
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 12:37
  Casi Joy: See?
• 12:37
  Casi Joy: I knew I'd get you.
• 12:38
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what though?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: He was one of the guys that wanted me to play tight end.
• 12:43
  Casi Joy: Oh.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and so um he said, like, well, wow, this really worked out for all of us, didn't it?
• 12:51
  Casi Joy: Uh-huh.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So what was it ever talked about that you'd play tight end for the Chiefs, or was it So I was on um I was the I was the wing on field goal protection.
• 13:04
  Casi Joy: Okay.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you have a fake field goal, I was the tight end.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we ran a couple fake uh situations, never materialize into a touchdown, though.
• 13:16
  Casi Joy: Oh man.
• 13:18
  Casi Joy: So it's draft day.
• 13:20
  Casi Joy: This is the question I'm most excited about, and I hope that you give a really just whirlwind of an answer.
• 13:27
  Casi Joy: So the Chiefs take you fifth overall, and you're like 22-ish at the time, and you're realizing I'm about to have NFL money.
• 13:37
  Casi Joy: What is the first, like the stupidest, most obscure thing that you buy once you get that NFL cash?
• 13:46
  Casi Joy: Um don't say something responsible.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was I I I like built my parents' house.
• 13:54
  Casi Joy: So that's like really sweet.
• 13:58
  Casi Joy: I don't I don't you didn't get like some stupid like pinball machine or like build a tennis court in your house.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, I didn't and and it wasn't it's not like it is now.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's relative, but it it's not it's not the contracts like they are now.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not stupid money.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun money, not stupid money.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you have enough to have fun.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I one of those what was called Big Red, the three-wheeler, the Honda three-wheeler.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Big red, remember those things?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were like the first ATVs, okay, right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh with a big Rocky flag on the top.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:40
  Casi Joy: Hey, I'll take that.
• 14:41
  Casi Joy: I'll accept that.
• 14:42
  Casi Joy: But the parents' house, that's really sweet.
• 14:45
  Casi Joy: So you had 40 career sacks, all with the Chiefs, which is super cool.
• 14:50
  Casi Joy: That feels like it that's a lot for your position, right?
• 14:56
  Casi Joy: Um did you consider yourself more of a pass rusher than a traditional nose tackle with what you were doing?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I never considered myself a nose tackle.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was a defensive end in college college.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um when they when they drafted me and they told me I'm playing nose tackle, I'm like, great, that's awesome.
• 15:19
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not really.
• 15:21
  Casi Joy: You're like, okay, I'll do it, but I'm still gonna do what I do.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember Walt Corey talking to him when I got here, and Walt Walt was a defensive line coach who became our defensive coordinator, and he's he's like, Don't worry, don't worry.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna what do you call it?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna we're gonna make you an attacking nose nose tackle.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether he was making that up like it was bullshit or what.
• 15:49
  Casi Joy: It's special, don't worry.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But but he kind of did.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um it wasn't so much catching guys, it was it was more about being explosive and shooting gaps and taking opportunities and penetrating into the backfield to cause havoc.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I change could change the line of scrimmage and move it back, the handoff to the running backs gonna have to develop and bounce and you know, Art and Mike and Gary Spaney would clean it up.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he did use that with me a lot.
• 16:20
  Casi Joy: Nice.
• 16:21
  Casi Joy: And you still hold the record um with the Chiefs for the most games played by a nose tackle, which is arguably one of the most physically abusive positions.
• 16:33
  Casi Joy: Pretty much.
• 16:34
  Casi Joy: Um what was your recovery like after games?
• 16:38
  Casi Joy: Like were you just toast?
• 16:41
  Casi Joy: Yeah, pretty much.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you know, um I look back on it now and and you think, what in the world?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 16:49
  Christian Okoye: Uh-huh.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: But when it became commonplace to do that every single day, it's just it it is what it is, and you just you become that.
• 16:57
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you just become that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: You adapt to it.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: You don't you don't realize what you're doing, but that's what you're doing.
• 17:04
  Casi Joy: So the whole body is just calloused.
• 17:06
  Casi Joy: It's just like we're just beating up everything.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest things that was was just terrible was we all most most stadiums uh were all astroturf.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't natural grass.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: 90% of the the fields were astroturf at that time.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you fell on the astroturf, it's not like it is now, it's carpet, is what it was.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: You get what we call turf burns.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: You have them on your knee, you have them on your elbows.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: When you get those, they heal, you get a scab on them by the end of the week, and just enough time for you to tear them back off Sunday as soon as like the first snap it goes.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you got one.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: When you had one, you had it for the season.
• 17:50
  Casi Joy: That's it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they they they're terrible too.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: They just hurt, right?
• 17:53
  Casi Joy: Yeah, I bet.
• 17:54
  Casi Joy: Yeah, I was a soccer player, so I'm familiar with the old the turf brownies.
• 17:59
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 17:59
  Casi Joy: Um, were there any injuries that like you shouldn't have played through but you did?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I I uh I had a plate put in my arm.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I remember they came out and said, I think I broke my arm.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it was a timeout and I I continued to play.
• 18:20
  Casi Joy: Uh oh my gosh.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh fractured uh leg on the ulna outside phone.
• 18:28
  Casi Joy: And played.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I uh I'll tell you uh terrible ones, the ones that you nobody really thinks about is when you know you you you get your finger broke or um you tear a muscle in your your peck or you know, things that you can't see or know.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: But my gosh, if you can't use your hands, they're just really limiting.
• 18:53
  Casi Joy: Man, that's yeah.
• 18:55
  Casi Joy: And so like what things would you do to recover?
• 18:59
  Casi Joy: Because like nowadays, you know, you've got Mahomes doing you probably, you know, red light therapy and all these crazy technology things.
• 19:08
  Casi Joy: Like, what was it for you?
• 19:10
  Casi Joy: Was it just like 12 ibuprofen in an ice bath and then do it again, really?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: You sound like my trainer.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hire me.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready to do that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hot and cold, get in the ice tub, you know, heat and stem and ice, heat, stem, and ice.
• 19:25
  Casi Joy: Nice man.
• 19:27
  Casi Joy: Okay, so you are kind of part of the birth of Chiefs Kingdom, correct?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that I was there when it occurred.
• 19:37
  Casi Joy: Yeah, so it's 1986.
• 19:39
  Casi Joy: The Chiefs have gone 15 years without making the playoffs.
• 19:43
  Casi Joy: And in that game, you blocked a field goal that Lloyd Burris returned 78 yards for a touchdown, and you said that that was the moment that everything kind of turned, like with the crowd and Arrowhead just like getting involved in the game more.
• 19:59
  Casi Joy: What did all of that feel like at the time?
• 20:01
  Casi Joy: Because, you know, we all know it as Chiefs Kingdom, we've always been loud, we've always been this and that.
• 20:07
  Casi Joy: Um, what was kind of that what did that change feel like?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we were in Pittsburgh, it was I think it was last game of the year, maybe and if we won, we'd get a wild card card birth.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um we went there and we scored three touchdowns, and all three of those touchdowns were on special teams.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the one was blocking the field goal, and we blocked a number of field goals that year.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: We had a really good unit, and I I I had something on them when they came out, and I told Lloyd, I said, get ready to pick one up right when they lined up for the field goal.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he was on the right side on the outside over here.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I shot the gap and exploded through and got my hands up and as much penetration I could get, and uh ball hit my hands right where I thought it would.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Went backwards, and Lloyd was coming screaming off the edge, and he picked it up and went.
• 21:06
  Casi Joy: How did you know to call that of like I'm about to do something here?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, but just it was just uh we we Frank Gans was our special teams coach, and uh he prided himself on finding avenues and ways to block punts, field goals.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was really good at that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we had studied film on them, and we saw a little something, and we picked up on a gap or a split or something that we thought we could penetrate, a hitch on when they're gonna snap the ball.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you get a jump on when they're snapping the ball, there's a it's a timing thing from the center to the holder to the kick, right?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they line up and there's usually a hit up or hit or a hand goes out, is everybody's set, or there's always something there that signals right when the snap's coming.
• 21:54
  Casi Joy: With all of that, you're just like studying all these micro movements.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and I and I and I got the Jump and really exploded through there, and that's penetrated the gap to get in the backfield.
• 22:06
  Casi Joy: Wow.
• 22:06
  Casi Joy: And you guys are just total heroes to Kansas City.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was really cool to come back because we had come back on many a flight, and there was nobody at the airport.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: When we came back and landed, and they told the pilots told us, hey, we got a traffic problem out of the airport.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: You guys have a big welcoming and it was that just gave me goosebumps.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: That was really cool.
• 22:30
  Casi Joy: Oh man.
• 22:31
  Casi Joy: So going along with it's now Chiefs Kingdom, Red Kingdom, there was, I I did not know about this story, and I'm just so fascinated by it.
• 22:41
  Casi Joy: It's so cool.
• 22:42
  Casi Joy: So you guys are playing again, it's 1990, and you're playing against the Broncos, and there is a moment where John Elway is trying to communicate his play to his team and keeps looking back at the ref and finally tells the ref, like, this crowd is too loud.
• 23:01
  Casi Joy: I cannot hear enough to say these plays.
• 23:04
  Casi Joy: And the ref gets over the mic and is like, uh, like, what's he say?
• 23:10
  Casi Joy: Like, um, Erlad, you're too loud.
• 23:12
  Casi Joy: If you don't quiet down, we're gonna have to give you a t uh lose a timeout.
• 23:16
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 23:17
  Casi Joy: And you were on the field during that.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:19
  Casi Joy: What were you guys doing?
• 23:21
  Casi Joy: Were you guys just like Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the NFL came up with this rule that year.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was the first year in 1990 they came up with it.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we were part of it.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and there was a couple other stadiums, and Seattle had a really loud crowd as well.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: But um if the quarterback couldn't hear due to the home field crowd noise, that the referee would give the crowd, call timeout, and give the crowd a warning.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: If it continued again, they would lose a timeout, penalize a timeout.
• 23:56
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we were backed up against the West End zone.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: They were they were the Broncos were coming out of the West End zone, backed up against the goal line, and uh the crowd noise was blistering.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: My ears, I'd still have issues, they're still ringing because of it.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and Elway tried to use that to his advantage there, and he turned around to the ref and he's like, Nobody can hear my signals, I can't, right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the referee got on his microphone and told the crowd to settle down, calm down, or we're gonna lose the timeout.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Lway comes out of the huddle, the crowd gets even louder.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can't imagine it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't imagine it got any louder.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: It did, it got louder.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And Elway's like looking back at the ref, and the ref's like, go.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, You go.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not there's no way I'm telling this crowd they lost the timeout.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: He would never be able to get out of the tunnel, out of the stadium.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been disastrous.
• 24:56
  Casi Joy: So the crowd just like called his bluff.
• 24:58
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Casi Joy: Didn't wow, yeah.
• 24:59
  Casi Joy: That is bizarre to think about with how Arrowhead is.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I saw that more.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: The people should put that out.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: That that was a great clip.
• 25:07
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Casi Joy: I didn't even think I was telling my husband about the story, and he was like, Oh, yeah, you should see the video.
• 25:12
  Casi Joy: And I was like, There's a video, and I went and watched it, and it's yeah, epic, yeah, iconic, so cool.
• 25:18
  Casi Joy: That is like truly like the birth of Arrowhead being what it is.
• 25:23
  Casi Joy: I mean, I can't imagine telling a crowd to be quiet in this day and age because it's all about being, you know.
• 25:29
  Casi Joy: Are we are is Arrowhead still the loudest stadium?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:32
  unknown: Nice.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's 142.2.
• 25:35
  Casi Joy: Wow, that's so exciting.
• 25:37
  Casi Joy: Um, okay, so Derek Thomas arrives in '89, and Marty and Bill Cower change the defense, and your job changes a little bit too, right?
• 25:48
  Casi Joy: You're no longer just nose tackle and you're kind of shifted to the outside right.
• 25:53
  Casi Joy: Were you happy with that change?
• 25:56
  Casi Joy: Because you didn't really want to play nose tackle, right?
• 25:59
  Casi Joy: Yes.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I get success at playing nose tackle, then you get comfortable playing it, then you understand it.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now they want to change it up.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So but you know, it's kind of like any job, you know, your boss tells you whenever the team is.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hey, we're gonna try something a little different, right?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you gotta go.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's only the NFL, however.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, but uh in the end of the day, it's your job, right?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta, you know, approach it with a good attitude and say, okay, how how how can I become the best at what I'm doing at this?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's what we did.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, that defense we played under Marty and Bill Cower, it was the end, the nose tackle, and the end were all like three nose tackles.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because all we did was catch guys.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we ate up blocks and had gap control on each play and every play.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: We are responsible, depending on which direction we're going, on what gap we have control of.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody had a gap to control.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and boy, I mean, did they hammer us home on that?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was they just drilled it into you so much, it's like, I don't want to hear this guy yell anymore, so I'm just gonna make sure I'm where I'm supposed to be.
• 27:10
  Casi Joy: Uh-huh.
• 27:11
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 27:11
  Casi Joy: How long did it take to adjust to the next game?
• 27:14
  Casi Joy: A little bit.
• 27:15
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:16
  Casi Joy: I mean, do you go right into your next game after they tell you, or do you spend time in practice first?
• 27:22
  Casi Joy: Or is it like once you're to the NFL, you know the all the positions enough?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's definitely a change.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm I played right end, so when I was at nose, I had my right hand on the ground.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: When I played right end, I had my left hand on the ground.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um you have the outside edge of of the tackle, you're responsible from the C gap all the way to the sidelines.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, the things were different, you and you had a read and react.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Where before, remember I was telling you about the attacking noticle?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm jumping.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like as soon as that ball snap, I'm I'm I'm coming off the ball.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to beat that snap count and get into my guy or around my guy as quick as I can.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's called read and react.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: They know the snap count, they know which direction they're going, and they get the snap count.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: And now I gotta follow them and get them and beat them to where they're trying to beat me.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if he came, yeah, that was that was a hard adjustment.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when they first started at Art Still and Mike Bell and I and even uh Neil were like, what?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Get the no, I'm not doing that stupid.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was it didn't put us in in, you know, three skinny hip guys, uh they should be getting upfield, being explosive.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you got some wide bodies and put them in there and let them do that stuff.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what he wanted to play, and that's the uh defense that they were comfortable with, and there was a good understanding amongst everybody by the time we got out of training camp of what we had to do and how we had to do it.
• 29:03
  Casi Joy: And so in this new position, you're taking on all these bodies, getting double teamed so that Derek can do his thing.
• 29:12
  Casi Joy: Was there any point where like Derek's getting these sacks, you're underneath two offensive linemen, and are you ever like, you're welcome for the sock opportunity?
• 29:22
  Casi Joy: I'm broken, and now I have to take 12 IPU.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um it wasn't yeah, it wasn't so much built around Derek, but for instance, a game he had seven sacks and missed the eighth one for the record.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that whole thing was drawn up by Bill Cower.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: He recognized how uh Seattle was going to block it, and we based it on I widened out aside the tackle, Derek was outside of me, the back was offset on our side, I'd crash across the face of the tackle into the shoulder of the guard, drawing the tackle to come with me to give Derek a one-on-one with a back that couldn't block him.
• 30:11
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, yeah.
• 30:14
  Casi Joy: So you're doing all this dirty work for like maybe not the paper, like stacks or stats on paper.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we argued about that too.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: All seven weren't his.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Neil had a half a snack, I was in there on a half stack.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we had body parts of all of it at the same time.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, all of a sudden it came out.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he got seven.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: He got seven.
• 30:34
  Casi Joy: We want a half.
• 30:36
  Casi Joy: That's right.
• 30:37
  Casi Joy: Okay, so I found a story from 1987 and the player strike involving you.
• 30:44
  Casi Joy: You probably know where I'm going with this.
• 30:45
  Casi Joy: But there's apparently a pickup, a pickup truck, Dino Hackett, Paul Kaufman, and were there guns?
• 30:53
  Casi Joy: And the phrase rabbit hunting.
• 30:55
  Casi Joy: Explain that story for the people if you don't know.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I just sent something to somebody about this, or somebody's writing a book and they wanted me to describe it to them.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was really simple.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're I was twenty five years old, 20, 25 or 26 years old.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm playing in the NFL.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: We had heard we had these NFL PA meetings.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what a NFL PA meeting is.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Players Association, oh yeah, I don't know.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: They were always held after practice.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: We'd go there after practice, and nobody really wanted to go.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're tired, we just want to go home, go on with our lives.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, you were getting ready for a strike.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's coming up.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna go on strike in 87.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, okay, that sounds great.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds fun, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Strike, okay, see ya.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then, you know, we were in '87 starts, and they're telling us, hey, we're going on strike after the third game, because it took three games of the season to have an accredited season, okay, for your towards your pension.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, we're going on strike.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds great.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know, we don't even know what it is.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know why we're striking.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody knows.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they didn't even have cell phones back then.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you had the hello, right?
• 32:16
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: No caller ID.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so there was the communication wasn't available.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: We we you you know, they or player rep guy would say, Hey, we're going on strike.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:29
  Casi Joy: And then it's a game of literal telephones.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Minus the telephones.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um we we I remember we were coming home on the airplane from a game, it was an away game, and everyone's like, Well, what do we do now?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's what what's going to happen next week?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: We'll wait for the call.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Wait for the call.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Tuesday was uh players' day off, and we we'd always go hunting.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're and it was dove season at that time, and we went dove hunting with shotguns.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we dove hunted in the morning.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, well, they said we need to show up at the stadium and go to get to the picket line.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, we don't even know what a picket line is, right?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a is there a picket fence or what I don't we don't know?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh we came, we come off I-70, we come off the exit there and go down by Royal Stadium, and I'm with Paul and Dino.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: They said, Hey, let's jump in the back of the truck and let's wave our shotguns.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going we're going scab hunting because we the scab players are coming.
• 33:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: So honest to gosh, we we we we come down to Arrowhead, we turn to go right in front of the stadium, and our player teammates are there, the media's there, which we knew all the media, the newspaper writers, the local TV anchors, and um the everybody is laughing their ass off, right?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big funny joke.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um by the time I got home, CNN violence erupts in Kansas City.
• 33:55
  Casi Joy: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Brandy team shotguns.
• 33:57
  Casi Joy: Yeah, the Chiefs have lost it again.
• 34:00
  Casi Joy: Violent.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Casi Joy: That's insane.
• 34:03
  Casi Joy: Did you guys get any sort of like were you in trouble at all from that with the Chiefs of like no?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, and then we had just we had just acquired Jack Del Rio.
• 34:13
  Casi Joy: Okay.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um linebacker for us and great teammate, and he had a big first two weeks.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Jack was he was out there on the pickle line with his brethren uh players association guys, and we're waiting for the scab bus that are supposed to come by us.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: We never saw any of the scab buses.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Otis Taylor, who was a scout at the time, came walking through the front doors.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Before he got through the front doors, Jack, him and Jack had a standoff, and they get into a fight.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Jack's on top of a punching Otis Taylor.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's newspaper clippings of it.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, we'll post it right here.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and uh we're like, no, Jack! That's Otis.
• 35:02
  Casi Joy: That's crazy.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Jack thought uh Otis was a scab, but oh my gosh.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, crazy times.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and we went through that thing.
• 35:10
  Casi Joy: So violence did erupt with the Jeeves.
• 35:12
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 35:13
  Casi Joy: Just not with the guns.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we we watched these games get played on the strike, and we're we're like, what in the world's going on?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then we find out that the strike ends, and we're going to a circuit court up in Minnesota for free agency.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: We'd never even heard the term talked about free agency.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: We thought we were going on strike for like better pension and severance and stuff like that.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and all this happened over about like a five-week period, and then we go back and play, and you just shake your head and say, like, what the hell just happened?
• 35:45
  Casi Joy: Yeah, what was that for?
• 35:46
  Casi Joy: Huh.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: So let's move to all those players now are benefiting from that strike.
• 35:53
  Casi Joy: Oh man.
• 35:53
  Casi Joy: Well, hey.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Free agency.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 35:55
  Casi Joy: It all happened for a reason then.
• 35:58
  Casi Joy: So your last year of the NFL, you go to Green Bay.
• 36:03
  Casi Joy: How did uh Kansas City react?
• 36:06
  Casi Joy: And like could you even see the or feel the reaction?
• 36:09
  Casi Joy: Because it's not the same as today, where like, you know, your phone's getting blown up or you know, TikTok, Facebook, all the things.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um it was it was a first year free agency.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was winding down in my career and I knew it.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Injuries are taking its toll.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's um they were gonna pay me a lot of money, come up there.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had spent uh nine years in Kansas City with a great defense.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I think all the players on our defensive side of the ball all played in the Pro Bowl, right?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Almost all of 'em.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we never had a quarterback.
• 36:50
  Casi Joy: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:51
  Casi Joy: Your guys' era was definitely like defense.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: We we never had a quarterback.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I you know, I just I had this opportunity.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that uh Brett Favre just got up there.
• 37:05
  Casi Joy: Yeah, hello.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're looking for a quarterback, Reggie White's going there.
• 37:09
  Casi Joy: Uh-huh.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, these guys have something going.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know, however, that the Chiefs were going to land Joe Montana.
• 37:17
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was a dagger.
• 37:19
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd signed the deal and I went up there, which it was great because uh great relationships, unbelievable uh fan base as well.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um the similarities between Green Bay and and Kansas City football and the fan base is I could see that.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's identical.
• 37:38
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was it was a great experience and and a great time.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um didn't quite get where I wanted to go, but that's okay.
• 37:47
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 37:47
  Casi Joy: But did you feel any backlash from Kansas City, or was it not that big of a deal since like the Packers weren't really like a direct rival?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there was any any kind of bl backlash.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I think that Kansas City was excited.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: They just landed uh Joe Montana and Marcus Allen at that time.
• 38:04
  Christian Okoye: Oh, yeah.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: They were going forward, right?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that um that was a big deal for them.
• 38:11
  Casi Joy: I had asked um so Neil Um Smith, we just had on a couple episodes ago, and I had asked him about, you know, playing all these years with Kansas City, and then he goes to the Broncos.
• 38:23
  Christian Okoye: Yeah.
• 38:24
  Casi Joy: I can't imagine that he.
• 38:25
  Casi Joy: So I asked him, I was like, you know, did you feel the backlash from Kansas City?
• 38:30
  Casi Joy: Just thinking it's gonna be like a light ha ha of like, yeah, I'm going to the rival, no big deal.
• 38:34
  Casi Joy: And it got dark real quick.
• 38:36
  Casi Joy: He was like, my family was being threatened.
• 38:38
  Casi Joy: I had to get security, they were threatening to blow up my restaurant, and I was like, damn.
• 38:44
  Casi Joy: I mean, I had no idea it was like that big of a deal to football fans, but it's also Denver.
• 38:50
  Casi Joy: So, like, yeah, but you know, the fans don't understand the business side sometimes of the NFL, and that sometimes that's not really your choice either.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: It worked out great for Neil.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:01
  Casi Joy: Um yeah, two Super Bowl things.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, and still have the legacy he has here in Kansas City.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's uh that that that's a win-win-win.
• 39:13
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 39:13
  Casi Joy: I mean, he he proved to Kansas City that like we are always his home.
• 39:18
  Casi Joy: And you know, now he's team gates, he's all about Kansas City.
• 39:22
  Casi Joy: And um, what was it like you returned one time to Arrowhead as a Packer, right?
• 39:27
  Casi Joy: For a Monday night football game.
• 39:29
  Casi Joy: What did that feel like coming back into the stadium that like you kind of helped create of this kingdom to come back in a different uniform?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it's a it's a weird feeling, you know.
• 39:39
  Casi Joy: It was like did you almost go to the wrong locker room?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kind of.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a it's it was it it don't let anybody tell you it doesn't affect them.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, if if you if you poured your whole being into something and and you're not a part of that and you come back on the other end of it as an opponent, I mean that's a different deal.
• 40:01
  Christian Okoye: Yeah, that hurts.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it yeah, absolutely it does.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's no question about it.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was funny, I did see uh a lot of signs that were up in in around the stadium kind of welcoming me back.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that was yeah, that was kind of nice.
• 40:21
  Casi Joy: Kansas City.
• 40:22
  Casi Joy: Yeah.
• 40:23
  Casi Joy: I just love this town.
• 40:24
  Casi Joy: So let's get out of the NFL now.
• 40:28
  Casi Joy: Let's talk about your other life of commercial real estate.
• 40:33
  Casi Joy: So even when you were in the NFL, you were already like investing in real estate and everything.
• 40:41
  Casi Joy: Because we've we've figured out since the beginning you're a smarty pants.
• 40:46
  Casi Joy: And so you weren't buying stupid pinball machines and watches and whatever, you were like investing and kind of thinking ahead, I feel like.
• 40:57
  Casi Joy: So what made you in your twenties think like I'm gonna buy a warehouse instead of uh so that's it, yeah.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I I can't answer that question.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 41:12
  Casi Joy: All I I I were your parents anything like that?
• 41:14
  Casi Joy: Was it something they instilled or no?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I I would I can just tell you that I I if I saw something that interested me, I I d got into it a little bit heavier.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I I looked into it, and that's only the only way you could do it back then is to get involved with it.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Couldn't look it up on the internet.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um there was a lot of things.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like for instance, I was always doing something else in the off season after after working out, after training.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was always doing something else.
• 41:48
  Casi Joy: I mean, I couldn't just chill and rest your poor little body.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I I worked at Channel Four.
• 41:55
  Casi Joy: I did Yeah, you did a lot of broadcasts too.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I did uh cut packages, I worked all all for free.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to know the industry, right?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I did radio shows all throughout my playing career.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um Mondays and Fridays normally I would do it.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um just there was always something that I was doing that was extra.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't I don't know why, maybe I don't know what you would call it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Interested, I don't know if it's driven, but I was interested in something.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: There was just other things I had of interest.
• 42:28
  Casi Joy: That's awesome.
• 42:29
  Casi Joy: So now you are the VP of Block and Company, right?
• 42:34
  Casi Joy: What makes commercial real estate like such a passion for you?
• 42:39
  Casi Joy: Because you've really gotten to be kind of a real estate leader in Kansas City now.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I would say that there's a lot of challenges in getting deals done.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's a lot of different components and asset classes of commercial real estate, right?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's industrial, there's multifamily, there's retail, there's office, there's development, there's uh investing side of it, there's all different sides of it.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're doing all these different things and you're a part of it, there's challenges to get the deals across the goal line, so to say, right?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: You still have to there's plays and there's moves and there's things you have to overcome, and you have to work them with municipalities and city councils and all these different things that have to take.
• 43:31
  Casi Joy: So now you're back to offense.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you have to bring all these things together to be successful to get it done.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I I think in a microcosm of playing football to doing this, there's I think there's a correlation on working with the team to to achieve a goal.
• 43:54
  Casi Joy: Yeah, because yeah, it's not just you by yourself doing this right now.
• 43:58
  Casi Joy: Is there ever like a building or A project that like you drive by now and you're like, I did that.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean the most proud one.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I I would challenge anybody that's in the industry to I mean you can hear when you talk.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, yeah, I built that building.
• 44:13
  Casi Joy: Yeah, like are you I I put them in there.
• 44:16
  Casi Joy: Is your wife so annoyed when you guys like drive through town?
• 44:18
  Casi Joy: You're like, I did that, I did that, I bought that, I just closed that deal, working on that deal, I'm gonna get them.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of, but it also is interesting, and and if you didn't do it, you know the person that is doing it, right?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: On the on the development or aspect of it or buildings and or all those things, shopping centers, so it's yeah, it's it's kind of neat.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
• 44:40
  Casi Joy: That's so cool that you've been such like a huge part of Kansas City, not only just with the Chiefs, but to stay here all this time and to now be a part of like building a beautiful Kansas City.
• 44:54
  Casi Joy: What made this city so special?
• 44:58
  Casi Joy: Like for you to be such a big part of it, and you know I mean you were only in Green Bay for a year, but like you could have been in Green Bay.
• 45:05
  Casi Joy: I mean it's like really cold.
• 45:06
  Casi Joy: I know I don't what made Kansas City like become like this is home?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the people.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I can't tell you how many great people I've met in Kansas City.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've been around the world a lot of I've been all over the place, but uh what by the time I got done playing, my kids were entrenched in school already.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not picking them up and moving them back because I'm from the East Coast.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're here.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we're doing.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um all the different avenues, I uh seeds planted, that uh relationships made, um this this this was it.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I was out on the West Coast.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was out there working for for a long time too, um, after I got done playing, and I'm traveling back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, um at from the studios with Fox to back here to Kansas City.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: My flight schedule at that time was just ridiculous um pre-9-11.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, Kansas City was it, and uh I'm I'm glad I'm still here.
• 46:14
  Casi Joy: Yeah, yeah, Kansas City's got that because like we I'm I'm from Kansas City originally, but we lived in Nashville for like 10 or 13 years, and I don't know why I can't remember which one.
• 46:24
  Casi Joy: Those are different numbers, but I just had a baby, and so I don't have to know anything.
• 46:28
  Casi Joy: I have my brain.
• 46:29
  Casi Joy: There you go.
• 46:30
  Casi Joy: Um but we uh Kansas City is just it's a it's a small town feel in a big city, and I think that's what just makes it different.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody knows somebody, no matter what side of town you're on.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right?
• 46:43
  Casi Joy: Yep.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's just and it's just it's a small world around here.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: It sure is.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it's slow too, you know.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not I mean, we complain about traffic.
• 46:54
  Casi Joy: We we have free parking here, and beers are only like seven dollars instead of you know, when you go to Vegas, you get a Dixie cup for 22 bucks.
• 47:04
  Casi Joy: Right.
• 47:04
  Casi Joy: It's just downright rude.
• 47:06
  Casi Joy: Kansas City is the place to be.
• 47:09
  Casi Joy: So you were the first chief to win AP Defensive Rookie of the Year, made two Pro Bowls, recorded all 40 of your career sacks as a chief, played nine seasons in Kansas City, and last year you're finally inducted into the Chiefs Hall of Fame.
• 47:26
  Casi Joy: How did it feel to finally get that recognition?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be lying if I said it bothered me that I wasn't right, to wait that long.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I understand why I had to wait, and I get that.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh why that why it doesn't make sense you know, you go through bumps in life uh that you slow things down a little bit, right?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when Clark called me and told me I actually I'm not I'm not kidding you.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: When he called me, I was in my car and I was like, what?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Clark, I bet he's calling me about that 500 acres I have up north, and they're gonna move the stadium there.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was my first thought.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: That was my first thought.
• 48:19
  Casi Joy: So are you thinking like I'm about to land a deal?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was really excited because I thought, boy, that would be a great location for Yeah.
• 48:30
  Casi Joy: So you got your business hat on.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but that wasn't it at all.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was something uh that was even better than that.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And he had told me that he I'm the 50th member going in there, so Oh my god.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I had I told him I said I got a pullover.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I did, I had a pullover at a park.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:50
  Casi Joy: I think I did see something where like your two best phone calls of your life were both from the hunts, right?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: The Hunt family.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Him and his dad.
• 48:58
  Casi Joy: Yeah, that's so cool.
• 49:00
  Casi Joy: So 50 years from now, when people see your name in the Chiefs Hall of Fame, what do you hope that people say about you?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, that's a good looking uh mug you got there on that thing.
• 49:16
  Casi Joy: I don't know what kind of land he is, Brazil.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I th they have their section, and we if you go through the Hall of Fame, they've you they've got your stories, and uh um I I just I remember when I got drafted, uh my dad told me you're either going to go someplace that is established and you're gonna help carry on a tradition, or you're going to go someplace that needs help in turning the team around and be a cornerstone to help that.
• 49:49
  Casi Joy: Right, and just totally build something.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that building something is stayed in my blood.
• 49:55
  Casi Joy: Yeah, to be a part of just the the change in how the Chiefs played and how the crowd started to actually participate in the games and not just be fans.
• 50:07
  Casi Joy: I mean, that is something to be so proud of, and just the crazy moments in this kingdom that you've been on the field for is something to be so proud of.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, completely.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was you know, to watch that kingdom come alive.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I remember eighty-four, eighty-five, uh there be twenty-three, twenty-four thousand people in an eighty thousand seat stadium, it was empty, right?
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: And to the time in nineteen eighty-nine where that place is just packed to the gills.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can't even get in the parking lot, yeah.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know where you're at, you just see a sea of red.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: That was fun.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was uh that was really fun.
• 50:53
  Casi Joy: That's so cool.
• 50:54
  Casi Joy: Well, Bill, thank you so much for joining us.
• 50:57
  Casi Joy: This has been a really awesome conversation.
• 51:00
  Casi Joy: Is there anything that you want to promote right now, or do you want the people to follow you on Snapchat or anything?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or no, I'm good.
• 51:09
  Casi Joy: You're good.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm good.
• 51:11
  Casi Joy: All right.
• 51:12
  Casi Joy: Well, thank you so much for joining us.
• 51:14
  Casi Joy: This has been Custom Conversations.
• 51:16
  Casi Joy: Don't forget to share this episode with all of your friends.
• 51:19
  Casi Joy: Hit subscribe, give us a review, hit the stars, all the things.
• 51:24
  Casi Joy: And if you want to get your Chiefs tickets, which I know you do, hello, look at us this season.
• 51:29
  Casi Joy: Go to ticketsmarter.com.
• 51:32
  Casi Joy: Thanks, y'all.
• 51:32
  Casi Joy: This has been Custom Conversations.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.