Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Matt Prior on Traveling the Silk Road with a Family

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Matt Prior on Traveling the Silk Road with a Family · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland DURL podcast. I am
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I'm joined today by Matt Pryor. Now.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Matt is doing a five year journey around the world
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: called Project wild Earth. He's doing that with his wife,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Leah and their two children. They're using an Ineos Grenadier
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and they're pulling a Patriot trailer. They are planning to
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: go around the world a few times and they're going
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to be crossing all of Europe, all of Asia, Africa,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and the Americas, and they are currently more than halfway
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: across Asia. They've done all of Central Asia. Incredible story.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: He's an incredible individual that has done some really legitimate
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: adventures in his life and there's a lot to learn
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: from Matt. And the conversation ends with quite a cliffhanger.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: They've had an incredible turn of events that put their
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: family at great risk, put their vehicle at great risk,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and we talk about that at the end of the episode,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: and just know that we're going to have Matt back
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: on soon. This is one of our longer episodes that
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: we've done and Matt, Matt and I could have easily
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: talked for another couple hours just to get to this point.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: It's a great listen. Matt is a great storyteller and
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: what he's doing around conservation and overlanding is really important.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So please enjoy my conversation with Matt Pryor. I also
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: wanted to take a brief moment to thank all of
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: you for listening to the ovalan Ural Podcast. By listening
• 1:40
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• 1:43
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• 2:00
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• 2:07
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• 2:15
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• 2:20
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• 2:26
  Speaker 1: that's Code Overland Podcast at checkout, and I'll give you
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: twenty percent off. I sincerely appreciate your support. Oh Matt,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for spending the time to be on
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: the podcast with me today. Let's let everybody know where
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: you're at in the world at the moment.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: So we're currently taking a break in Thailand and chilling
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: out the family, teaching the kids how to swim, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: sorting out our party training.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Now, a lot of people don't know you know a
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: lot about Southeast Asia and why it is common for
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Overlanders to spend time there. Let's maybe do a little
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: bit of a detour from what is an incredible journey
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: that you and your family are on, but let's talk
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: a little bit about why you made the decision to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: spend time in Southeast Asia. What are some of the
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: advantages of that, How does it help with the budgeting?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Matt Scott talks a lot about it in a positive way,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: but let's hear from you why you're there with your family.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: This whole trip, Scott has been planned basically by weather
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: windows and that's as far as we've gone with the planning,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: and also from previous trips I've done before. If you're
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: on the road for too long, especially if you're trying
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: to document and make videos and you've got kids and
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff, it just gets too much.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: And so it's really sensible that if you're going to
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: do a long trip like this, our trip is planned
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: for five years, that there's natural breaks that you know, okay,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: we'll chill. Then now what does that look like? You
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: can dictate that and determine that at the actual time.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: And so Southeast Asia was always a block of a
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: couple of months actually where we're just like, okay, that's
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: the time where we're just stop, we'll reset, we won't move.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: We're fortunate alough we used to live in Hong Kong,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: so we've done Southeast Asia inside out, back to front.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: So it's not a place that we need to explore
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: or see. We know it's cheap, you can get everything,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: everything's available, it's safe, it's just really easy. It's just
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: the weather here has just been perfect every single day.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: It's just nice just to stop and relax and enjoy.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: And I think it's really important to re energize on
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: these journeys and not just keep going and going and
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: going and going, because cumulative he kicks in and you
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: start making a few poor decisions and it just becomes
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: a real downward spiral. And with overlanding, as like you're
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: the man to know you can end up in a
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: whole world of heart with just to hurt with a
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: series of bad decisions. So I think it's important to
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: reset and then off you go again.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: And we'll talk about this a little bit later. But
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: there's Matt, the adventure, the veteran. But then you have
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: a family with you, and that requires a whole another
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: set of considerations. I expect that it adds unimaginable upside.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I don't have children myself, but I can't imagine the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: feeling it would be as a father to not just
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: show your kids a Buddhist temple in a book, but
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: to show it to them in person, or to let
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: them lay eyes on the Himalaya or something like that.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: That's really incredible. So we'll talk about that a little
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: bit later. But let's first take a moment and go
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit further back into your history. You went
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: we call it high school here, but you went out
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: of secondary school in the UK, is that right?
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: And then and then yeah, and then and where were
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: you raised it in the UK?
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Honestly I moved around a lot, Scott. My dad was
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: in the manufacturing, which back then was it wasn't a
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: good place to be because everything was going overseas. Sure,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: my life was every two to three years he got
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: made redundant is the house, We'd have to move, and
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: then you'd go somewhere else set up again, the same
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: thing would happen again. I almost lived like a military
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: style existence without actually being in the military. Every two
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to three years, it was moving, it was being the
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: new kid, it was a new area. It's getting bullied.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: It wasn't great, to be honest. Retrospectively, I think there's
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of positives for me now, but at the time,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it was the greatest amount of fun,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: to be honest.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: So I did that, and then university and then joined
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the military. So I've just continuously been moving.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So that's an interest that was in the early two
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: thousands for you when you were doing a lot of
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: that in late nineties early two thousands when you were
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of that movie. Yeah.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I went to UNI two thousand and three
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: to two thousand and six and then joined the Air
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Force two thousand and seven.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, I remember I was in manufacturing around the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: same time, okay, and I remember getting an order from
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a customer that showed our regular deliverables, and then it
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: went to half, and then went to half and then
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: it went to zero.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: And I remember that moment when because I was the
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: first one to see it, and I didn't run the company,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: but I was an executive in the company, and that
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: feeling of clearly they just went it just went to China. Yeah,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: and that for me, obviously, it was a really important
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: turning point of my life that that happened. But I
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: could see how that would be so disruptive for a
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: child to move in that way under duress. Yeah, yeah,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: I mean families under the families under duress.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: The families under diress, and they're also Scott. I think
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: the hardest thing was that after about three years, you
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: get your feet under the table, you get a good
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: set of friends, you're just like, Okay, I think we
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: can do this, and then it happens again, and then
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: you know what's in store, and then again and again.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: It makes you tough, that's for sure, and it makes
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: you very adaptable to new people, new environments, new relationships.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of pros retrospectively, but at the
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: time when you were a kid, you don't see that
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: and you just see what is on a day to
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: day basis. I actually asked my dad about this, like
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: why did you keep staying in manufacturing when you had
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: the choice every kind of a few years. You must
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: have looked for other jobs and he got offered a
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: really high level job at Bentley. I said, why didn't
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: you take that? And he says, he said, the thing is,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Matt these kind of big brands at that specific time.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: He said, it's very easy to look at things in
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: hindsight because yeah, Bentley are a big company now, and
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: maybe that would have been a good move, but you
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: just don't know are they going to survive or not.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: And like a massive manufacturing company with a slightly better
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: salary and better perks that scene, that was a better
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: option for a father of a family from a stability
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: point of view. So it makes sense. But I definitely
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: wanted to ask that question because it helps when you're
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: just joining the dots and trying to understand, like why
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: did this happen? But now now I'm like a father myself,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: it makes a lot more sense.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you make you have to make different decisions. I
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: have no doubt. And then you went to where did
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: you go to university.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Actually, I went to university in the city that I
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: was living in, which was very strange and very unusual,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: and a big part of going to university is that
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: you leave, you leave the nest, you go somewhere totally different.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: But it just so happened that I actually tried to
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: get in the unit into the Air Force when I
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: was seventeen and it didn't work out, and so I
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: never really wanted to go to UNI. And then I
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: actually had a big switch in my head. I've just
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: been so focused Scott for doing all this stuff for
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the Air Force, trying to get the highest grades in
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: the specific subjects, and I was like, do you know what,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I love flying? I'm just going to go and do
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: a degree that I love rather than what is the
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: best thing to do academically potentially, And that year they
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: just started an aviation degree. I was quite big in
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: America in Australia, but in the UK it wasn't and
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: it was all under the in the engineering department, and
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: it just so happened to be on my doorstep, which
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: at the time I was thinking really but actually it
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: was really cool because a UNI town, psychologically, it's a
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: whole different existence. So it's like a young kid before
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: growing up on the outskirts of the city, but when
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: you actually go to a UNI town and you just
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: you live in the halls there and you set your
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: life up there. It was actually quite nice because in
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: my head I was at university, but actually half an
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: hour down the road, I had all my friends and
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: family and I could dip in and out as I
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: wanted to, rather than some sort of cross country mission.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: And maybe part of you is that you had been
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: moving so much that was the opportunity to not have
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: to move again.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, maybe it was actually nice in a lot
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: of ways to be the local lad and be familiar
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: with a lot of things. So actually that was by
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: far the longest time I've ever spent anywhere.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you ended up going to university, you get
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: this aviation degree, and then you finally get the opportunity
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: to go into the Air Force, which we're both Air
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Force veterans now.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I actually joined the university Air Squadron, which
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: is effectively like a reserve squadron whilst you're a university student,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: so it's a slightly different to the US model. And
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: then I got sponsored by them in the last year
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and then you're on scholarship and off you go. And
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: that was a really nice way to do it again
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: because you could be a professional, but you could also
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: be a university student and just go a little bit
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: wild and a little bit crazy, and so it was
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: a nice balance of keeping on the track and keeping
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: things focused, but if you needed to go wild, you could,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: So it was great. Honestly, those days were brilliant because
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: as a UNI student I was being paid to fly
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: and pay to go on adventure Scott. It was like
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: the dream. Eighteen to twenty hours was incredible. I almost
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: pinch myself now that is even real.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of really notable Overlanders that were
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: in the RIF. I mean Tom Shepherd comes to mind,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: and of course mac McKenny is another one. Yeah, so
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of RIF guys driving around the world.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: It makes sense if you think about it, if you
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: think about the traits and what you're attracted to. Sorry
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: about that as just a door opening. Yeah, if you
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: think about what attracts you to the military, there's a
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: lot of kind of similarities from an adventure perspective and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: the skill set you'd require and the mentality you require.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: So I'm not surprised at all that a lot, But
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: at the same time, I am surprised that there aren't
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: more people doing it. And there's a few reasons for that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: But sometimes I do think it comes down to courage,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: which sounds like an odd thing to say, but when
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: you're in the military, like a lot of things are
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: provided for you. You're part of a team. Tick all
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the boxes, do what you're told, and this will happen.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: But taking initiative and doing like a trip on your own,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: or driving around the world or doing any sort of
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: overland trip, a lot of it is you're on your own, yeah,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: and you need to drive forward, and it's not very
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: clever decision financially in most people's cases. And so you're
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: taking like a big leap of faith and you're taking
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: like big risks.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, nobody escapes this life this ride alive, so
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: we might as well exactly, well, we might as well.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I just really believe that I think that the easier choice,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: or let's even say that the moderately risky choice, I
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: think it takes just as much energy as the big risks,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: as the big steps, as the big trips, like you've done.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I think about what it took to drive around the world,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and it didn't take a whole lot more either money
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: or time or even logistics than driving to Panama from Arizona.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: It's incremental, it's a small increase. There is a little
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: bit more shipping, but not much because you still have
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: to ship back from Panama. So if you look at
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: if you look at a what feels like a say
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: for a really attainable idea, but that's also where everybody
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: else is at. Everybody else is doing the thing that's
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: just slightly pushing themselves or sounds slightly interesting, whereas what
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you're doing making the decision to take your fan around
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the world a couple times over five years, that is
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: a really big idea, and as a result you get
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: the rewards are outsized. They are if you're successful, the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: rewards are a ten x multiplier of if you had
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: just said, all right, we're going to drive. We're going
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: to drive to Morocco, Like it would have been cool
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: to drive to Morocco from Jonna Groats to Morocco or whatever.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: But it's a it's a very different outcome because everybody
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: else is doing that too.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: It is but what you say about effort, I really
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: truly agree with you. Like let's say you do the
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Jonna Groats to Morocco or you do Arizona to Panama.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: You're doing eighty percent or eighty five percent of what
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: we're doing anyway, Yes, so the final fifteen percent and
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: then you're just repeating it and your experience is growing
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: all the time, so you're learning how to shortcut and
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: be more efficient with everything. It's actually, this is what
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I mean. I don't know if you know this, but
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: when I used to run my own adventure academy, this
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: is what I used to teach. Like they always used
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: to turn up in Indonesia, very long story short. It
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: was a seven day thing. It was a secret itinery
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: They had a bag packed with what I told them
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: to bring. They had no idea who was going to
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: be there, what was going to happen. And they were
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: always terrified when they met me, always all of them, understandably,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and sometimes they're literally physically shaking. And I said, look,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: you've already done the hardest bit. You've gotten an aeroplane,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: You've flown to me a load of random strangers on
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: the other side of the world. You have no idea
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: what's about to happen. You've got some stuff in your
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: bag which you're probably thinking is not enough for what
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: you need, and you're ready. I was like, you've already
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: done the hardest part. Just chill now. And you always
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: saw the light in their eyes and that realization. They
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: never truly believed you until the end, but honestly, like
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: a week later they would always say, I get it now,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I get it. Like, by far, the hardest part is
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: literally just that first step.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I agree. There are very few parts or components of
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: my trips that were like exponentially more difficult. And that's
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: really just in the polar regions. Yeah, everything else is
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: just the smells change and the language changes pretty much, and.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: The rules change. The game changes a little bit, but
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: only the game, but only a little bit. Yeah, but
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: only but.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Only a little bit. You realize you're playing a game
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and you just got to figure out where to put
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the chess pieces.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: For sure, one hundred percent, But like you say, there
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: are small bits, like I can't really comment on polar
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: side of things, but I'm sure that it's okay. This
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: is like a whole new game and these are the
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: rules here and Okay, this is how this works. But
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: it's all within reach, I think, and as your experience grows,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: everything just becomes easier.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And when you how long were you in the Air Force?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Not as long as I plan to be, Scott, that's
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: for sure. About six years. Yeah, six years.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah about making that a career, huh.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I'd signed up for eighteen years in the UK as
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: a pilot, you sign up for twelve or eighteen.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I had no idea. That's very interesting.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: It's a big deal. So I'd actually signed up for eighteen.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: So in my life, in my head, I was like, Okay,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: this is what I'm doing till I'm forty, and then
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I'll make a plan after that. And I'm forty now
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: and a lot has happened since then. That's yeah.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those military experiences are so formative. It was certainly
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: what inspired me to travel was getting thrown on a
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: plane for Italy during the whole Bosnian conflict. Just walking
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the streets of southern Italy just I realized this has
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to be a part of my life. I had no
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: idea how to get there, but I knew it had
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to be a part of my life.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I think also, it becomes foundational as well, if just
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: every tiny little part, if you analyze things backwards, you're
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: just like if I didn't have that discipline, then I
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: didn't learn that habit then, and if I didn't learn
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: how to hold that standard, then none of these things
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: would have happened. I really truly believe in it, think
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: a military foundation. It's not for everyone, but the whole
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: concept of national service for me is fascinating. Like when
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I've done trips previously, I almost we always used to
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: play this game when we came to the border without
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: doing any research does this country have national service or not?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: And you could tell within the first ten minutes just
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: by how everybody was, their standards, how they treated each other.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: It was really interesting. And I almost seem it's almost
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: the shame that because I think a lot of community
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: around the world, and the whole sense of brother and sister,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: especially in the Western world is quite fragmented these days
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: relative to the East, and I think if there was
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: that just minimum bond, even if it's not national service,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: but like community service, just something where people have to do.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: It's a leveler. We've all done it, we've all been there, Therefore,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: we all have something in common and it's all in
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: service of our country, which is where we were born.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: None of us choose that. I always think about it.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I always just think, I wonder how much better a
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: country would be if you did have national service versus didn't.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: But you'd have to compare like And the problem with
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: that is every country is so different and times change,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: so it's very hard to make that comparison.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Although when you do see compulsory national service, they tend
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to be fairly outstanding in some way. Those countries they
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: tend to be, and there's not very many that have
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: compulsory national service. But I think even if someone wanted
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: to be a conscientious objector, which I would respect, that
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: there's other ways to do that. It's the Peace Corps
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: in the US. It's some version of giving some of
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: your youth towards the betterment of society. Yeah, but you
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: come out of it. It's a step order improvement in
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: your life.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: For sure. And it's such a small amount of time
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: relative to your whole life. That I mean like Switzerland
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: and a lot of the Scandinavian countries. And I see
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: it in the press now and again where countries are
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: toying with bringing it back should we And it's always
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: it's just like an almost political issue if we do this,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: how many votes will we lose? And how are you?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: It's just a shame really, But anyway, anyway we should
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: move on. No, but it's good.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's good for the audience to think about
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: those things. And even later in life, there is always
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to give back, and I think doing that
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: in some fashion, whether it's as a volunteer or you
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: take a sabbatical and you do some philanthropic work. In
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: your case, you're the entire premise of your journey is
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: to document this rare and wild earth that we occupy,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and that's a way of giving back to the planet
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: that you love. There's always a way to do that.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I also think it's just really good for the ego Scott,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: just to accept and acknowledge that we are literally as
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: a person, we're just so tiny relative to the universe,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and to remind yourself of that and to like that
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: just for a little bit. It's very freeing. It's very freeing,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: and you feel very light and you just feel part
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: of a much larger purpose. And I think it's you
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: don't have to do it your whole life, and maybe
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: if you just dip into it. I just think it's
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: an amazing thing to do if you can. And yeah,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: with Artrich, we're spending all our time in nature. Nature
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: is such an incredible thing and around the world a
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: lot of it is being destroyed for whatever reason. But
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: we just wanted to do our bit to show there's
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: actually some really good people doing some amazing things out there,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: and some of these blueprints could be rolled out in
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: various different areas around the world, and it's just to
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: give that kind of ray of hope rather than just
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: negative all the time. It's more just that appreciation that
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: there are people out there that are trying to protect
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: this and the more people that get on board with that,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: the better it is for us now, but also for
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: future generations, which is a big thing. Having the kids
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: like you really see how they are in nature and
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: how that is ultimately what we're supposed to do. That's
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: where we all come from, and how happy they are.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: And in the States, with all the public lands that
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: you guys have, it's insane. I don't think many people
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: in America truly realize how lucky and fortunate they are
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: to have that. One of the guys that came it's incredible. Scott,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: one of the guys that came with me on a
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: motorbike trip to Bhutan. He was actually a journalist and
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: he lived He had a pickup truck and an airstream
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: and he just lived on the public lands. And I'd
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: never really heard about this concept. I was like, what
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: do you mean you can just drive around and just
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: live here and it's all public land. And he told
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: me about the whole thing, and I was like, that
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: is incredible, and the scale of it blew my mind.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: And so ever since I've been looking for it elsewhere
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: around the world and there's just nothing really like it.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: And there's national parks and things, and there's protected areas,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: but not like you have in the US. But people
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: don't always appreciate what they have until they either lose
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: it or they explore further, and then they start to
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: have perspective given to them as whole.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Wow, guess the difference between perception and perspective. Yeah, once
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: you gained some perspective, then your perception of your reality
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: certainly changes quite a bit. So you get out of
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: the Air Force, and at what point did you team
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: up with a bunch of guys in a black London taxi.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: So I actually grew up with Johno, one of them,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: from about fifteen six I think I was sixteen in Leite,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: and he was like a very good child not childhood friend,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: but very a good friend from that age, and we
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: just stayed in touch. We were actually going to backpack
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: around America, but then we ended up doing the Mongol
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Rally on separate teams. One of the first Mongol rallies
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: kept in touch, did the military stuff, and then he said,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I've just finished uning and me and my mates we're
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: going to drive this London cab around the world. And
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: obviously I was interested, and I was like, how did
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: you come up with that idea? As UNI students do,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: got way too drunk, got ripped off by the cabby.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: This was all pre uber and they had the idea
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: in the morning, and of course people are just like, yeah,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: but it's not really going to happen. And then one
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: of them bought a taxi. They went on eBay and
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: they bought a taxi. And this is a beautiful thing
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: about journeys like this, because again what we were talking
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: about with that first step once something like that happens,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: it becomes a lot more real. What are we going
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: to do with this taxi? And how is that going
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: to make it? Around them? And it was old, it
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: was cheap it. I had half a million miles on
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the clock, I think before they even set off. It
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: was a banger anyway, So I was watching all this
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: kind of unfold and they were heading up to the
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Arctic Circle and they're starting to head across Central Asia,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: and I'm just watching it on a daily basis, just
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: thinking I wish I was doing that. I was in
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: the military at the time, and then, long story short,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: ended up getting made redundant due to the financial crisis.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Sent John on a message and I said, you'll never guess,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: but I can actually come on this trip, and are
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: you guys open to it?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Bear in mind, I'd never met two of the others,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: so there's a group of three of them. I'd never
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: met the other two ever, and so he asked them,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: and you'll be able to relate to this, and I'm
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: sure a lot of other people would be able to relate.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: You know what it's like traveling in a small group
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: for a long period of time, introducing one other person
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I think can really help. It changes the dynamic, especially
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: if you think about a group of three, you can
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: now if you make it a group of four, you
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: can split into twos, or you can have a three
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: and a one. There's a lot more you can do
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: with the dynamics. Anyway, he said, the boys are up
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: for it. He's just please, please, just don't up. And
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I understand, and I tread very carefully.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I was very appreciative of the opportunity to be able
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: to piggyback onto something that was not mine at all. Sure,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: but the experiences that were about to unfold, I knew
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: you would be incredible. I joined them in India, Northern India,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: and they've just on India and this still happens Scott
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: on a daily basis that I just watched and I
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: bump into people and they're just like, I've just done
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: India in the monsoon season, and I smile. And a
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: lot of that comes down to research. Sometimes it's previous
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: things that have happened and they didn't have a choice.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: But sometimes it's like, did you not realize it was
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: monsoon season? And they were all just broken? They were
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: just so broken, And I think they just liked this
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: fresh face, turned up, clap my hands, how can I help,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Let's do this, Let's go to the hall and let's go.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: And they also wanted me on board because this was
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: when China I mean, they still do charge a lot
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: of money, but these guys, they were going to take
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: the taxi solo through China, through Nepal and do a
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: big trip around China as well. And at the time,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I think it was five thousand euros to do this.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: This is back in twenty eleven. We're talking almost fifteen
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: years ago, so this was a lot of cash and
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: they I think they just thought if someone else can
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: chip in, then that would help. Yeah, So we did
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: the whole of China and then down in Southeast Asia,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: and then at the time I was working out what
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I was going to do next. So my plan. I
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: can talk about this for a long time, but I
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: looked at all sorts of stuff, Scott. I looked at entrepreneurship,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I looked at being a CEO. I looked at being
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: a war photographer and monk like I really went I
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: could have gone down. I ultimately thought maybe an airline
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: pilot would be a good move, that it continues to
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: the profession. But it also gave me a lot of
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: time and enough money to experiment on the side, and
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: that's why I did it. So I had to do
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: some qualifications and some things, so I was flying in
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: and out, and then the plan was that their trip
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: was going to end in Australia. Job done, and then
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: they ended up bumping into these get taxi guys who
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: were almost they could have been the first duber, but
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: they didn't quite execute as well as they probably should have,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: and the trip continued, and that's how we ended up
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: in the States and meeting you. Conversation was they it
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: was supposed to end, and then they text me again
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: saying you'll never guess what, And they said, what do
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: you think? I was like, do it? When are you
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: going to get to drive across America in a taxi?
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: And one of the conditions was they had to go
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: and buy an American taxi so that there's two of
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: them in ter just what they wanted to do. I said,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: this is going to be incredible. I know it's not
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: quite as you planned it, but let's do it. This
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: stuff does never happen, but you've got to say yes,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: let's go.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Trying to think of where we were at. We were
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: talking about the London taxi. And then so then you
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: you guys do make it into America. Yes, and you
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: make it. You make your way down to Arizona. And
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the thing that stood out in my mind of that
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: brief experience. Obviously Matt Scott on our end was really
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: excited to hang out with you guys, and that was
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: when he was still an editor for Expedition Portal. Yes,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: But the thing that stood out in my mind is
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: you guys were all lined up looking at me saying,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: we want to shoot the taxi like you so you
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: were so disappointed. You were so disappointed that the taxi
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: had never been shot through the entire trip. But so
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: what better place to guarantee that you're gonna get your
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: car's gonna get shot in Arizona.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: This was not my vehicle. I was not part of
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: the original team, So I'm pretty sure I abstained. I
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: was like I am not because Lee. Lee was like
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: the engineering, stroke, mechanical kind of guy, and he was
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: like a little bit like I remember him pushing back.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: It was more the other two were just like, yeah,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: let's shoot the tax that you were not because weapons
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: and arms and rifles like that to the average brit
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: just blows their mind, especially the cabinet that you guys had,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And this was back then, and so this whole novelty,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: it does still blow my mind how you can just
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: drive out into the middle of nowhere and just set
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: up a range.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: And just let's go shooting the car.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm coming at it from a military background,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: which is very controlled, very organized, lots of rules. You
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: go to an official range. This is how everything works,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: and there's no messing around.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Wyatt Open Doc Holiday used to walk down this street.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: What was amazing though, is even though you're able to
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: do that in the States, people do take it seriously.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: There's a level of safety that actually I saw in
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: many different parts of America, and I was actually really
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: surprised but also very impressed by even though arms are
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: much more freely available, there's a level of respect there
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: and it's trained through the generations and that's that's handed
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: down and people don't mess around. So I thought that
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: was actually really good. We can have a laugh and
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: we can do whatever we want to do to our
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: own property.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: And then so tell us the story. You guys did
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: end up shooting the taxes, So how did that all
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: go down?
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Lee was not happy about it at all, and JOHNO
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: and Paul thought this was the funniest thing in the world.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: And obviously from then on everyone who came across the
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: taxi would be like, do you know you've got a
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: hole in your bonnet? There's like a hole here. And
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: then they took great joy in explaining that we basically
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: did ourselves and shot the taxi, which everyone would look
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: and be like, why would you shoot your own car?
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: To the answer is why not exactly. So those guys
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: they took it through, They took it through Baluchistan in Pakistan,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: and they did take it some pretty dodgy places that
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: quite easily could have attracted a few bullet.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Holes, no question, but it took it took Overland Journal
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and Arizona to make it happen.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: So it did. That was an experience I'll never forget.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: It really was cool there as well, It really was.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: It was a great experience. We have you guys and
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: also Scott. Every time I see Expedition Portal or Overland Journal,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: every time I see it, I always think I remember,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: like the humble beginnings and where it was and what
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: it's come to, and a lot of the core group
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: are still around and connected in some way and it's nice.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: It makes me smile. It reminds me of just yet again,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: another business, another idea that obviously begins at that stage
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: and look what it turns into.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it brings me a lot to look back on that.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: And that's one of the coolest covers we've ever had
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: on the show magazine was the one of there's the
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: taxi that's coming in. One or two of you guys
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: are sitting in the back of some armored vehicle and
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: there's AK forty seven's coming into the frame and there's
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the London taxi. It's one of the coolest covers we've
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: ever had in the magazine. And so you finished the
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: London taxi trip, you make your way back to the UK.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: What happened between then, because that was quite a while ago.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: That was ten year ten plus years ago.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: It was it was and just talking about the London
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: taxi trip, I missed quite an important part of it, Scott.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: On that trip was where I met Leah, my wife.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Oh I actually met on that trip and it was
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: an area that I took the guys to that we'd
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: just done China, and I said, and they were a
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: bit done because you have to have a guide with
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: you twenty four to seven in the taxi, I mean,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: and he was used to high end land cruisers, five
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: star hotels, one meal a day. We're not sure when
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: that's gonna happen, and we want to stay in the
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: cheapest possible place we can. He was so done with us.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: There was actually one point when we pulled over with
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: one of the police checkpoints and he tried to tell
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: the police that we'd abducted him, and we're just like,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: we've got paperwork here to say you're our guide. So yeah.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: So we went to Lao and it was just a
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: place where he could get cheap booze on a river
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: and just go a bit crazy. And that's where I
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: met Leah. And then the car actually took some a
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: while to get into America, and during that time I
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: went to see Lea again and did a little bit
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: of a mini road trip around Utah and Moab and
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: like Durango, Colorado and New Mexican, like really epic. And
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: it was at that point that I was like, now
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I get why many Americans like don't travel as much
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: as maybe other nationalities, like their country from a physical
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: geography point of view, is insane, Like it really has
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of the world's best.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: You could spend a lifetime going and if you wanted Arctic,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: you go to Alaska. If you want an island, you
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: go to Hawaii.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: It's just really that that trip scot I mean, it
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: was great to see Lea and that really helped our relationship.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: But I did come back off it thinking, Wow, America
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: as a country, it's pretty insane from an overland perspective.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: After the taxi trip, obviously, I was just like, Okay,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: how am I even going to go back to a
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: job after something like that? But I had a plan,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and it's great to get some stuff out your system,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: and yeah, the plan was to go to Hong Kong.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: So Cathay Pacific are the airline that I worked for.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: They're very military friendly, and what they used to do
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: is they used to recruit the best of all the
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: militaries from around the world and that kind of formed
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: their cadre of pilots. And they heard what had happened
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: to us, and I felt a bit sorry for us,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: and also saw it as a way of scooping up
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: some young talent and go and let's recruit all these guys.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: There was a selection process. Let's recruit all these guys
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: and see what happens. So all of us went thinking, Okay,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: this is a bit like a six year tour in
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: the military. Let's go to Hong Kong, let's have a blast,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: and we'll just reassess after them. And I ended up
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: spending eleven years out there in Hong Kong, living in
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Asia and just having the time of my life. It's
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: an amazing place to live, it was cheap tax, it
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: was really interesting people that went there. If you ever
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: meet expats, there's always something about them. You've chosen to
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: leave your country and go and live somewhere else, which
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: is again, it takes a little bit of courage. You're
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: leaving all your friends and family and everything that's familiar
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: to you, and you're making a big decision which could
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: hugely blow up in your face, which you know, and
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: you're still willing to take that. People are there for
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: different reasons, and it just gave us. I was just
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: able to explore that side of the world, and like
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I said, it also allowed me to set up a
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: few companies on the side and just run a ton
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: of experiments and I loved it. I really loved it, Scott.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And then yeah, COVID changed all.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: That, and then you guys decided, and then you guys
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: decided to start this project. So let's talk about, Yeah,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: what project wild Earth is where you guys decided to
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: go from there?
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so we've decided we were going to leave
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Hong Kong in twenty nineteen, and we were. One of
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: the companies I set up was based out of Indonesia
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: and one of the local guys I worked with lived
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere on this beautiful organic farm,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: and he basically said, look, we can give you some land,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: you can build a house here, and you can just
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: work as and when you need to out of Hong
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Kong and just live a great life here. So that
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: was our plan. That's what we were going to go
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: and do. COVID changed that. It trapped us in Hong
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Kong for quite a while. And I don't know if
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: you remember how China was in those days, but it
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: was full on and Hong Kong was as well. And
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: being an international pilot, I was crossing borders all the time.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And the crazy stuff that I had to do with
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: bio suits and forms and masks and staying in hotel
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: rooms with armed guards and they sealed the windows so
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: that you couldn't even let fresh air in and it
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: was wild. Scott and I did this for close to
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: three years, and the final thing was when our airline
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: just cut our salary by thirty to forty percent and
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: our contract became an editable PDF. And after that I
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: was done. I was like, Okay, this is the sign.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: This is done. Now what are we going to do?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: So LEAs from the States, she's American, and so we
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: just looked at all our options, laid it all out,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: and there was nothing that was really strongly pulling either
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: of us in any one direction in terms of country
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: or profession at that time. And as COVID did for everybody,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: it makes you ask all the big questions. And one
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: of the things we realized was our kids were young,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: and they're only going to be young for so long.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: And if we do go the school route, which hasn't
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: been decided yet, but if we did, that's it. Then
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: it's really quite difficult to take your kids out of school.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: And then remember my childhood, I told you about. That
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: is not something that I want to do with them,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: And so we realized there was a window of opportunity
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: there that if we were going to go and do
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: something a little bit wild as a family, now's that
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I'm to do it. And actually the day we met
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: on that river in Lao, a day before that, we'd
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: actually bumped into I'm not sure if you guys featured
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: them on Expedition Portal, the family that traveled around the
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: world in a car made in nineteen twenty eight. It
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: had wooden wheels. Oh, they did, the Zap family. We'd
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: actually bumped into them the day before, and that blew
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: my mind. So we're in Loo. I think I was
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: driving from memory. I was driving and this whole car
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: was coming the other way and it was on my
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: side of the road, which I thought was quite strange.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: So I veered to the other side and it matched me,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: and I was just like, what is going on here?
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And then I genuinely thought this was like trouble and
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: they're going to block the road and guys are going
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: to jump out and this isn't good. So I told
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: the other guys. I was like, look, we need to
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: be alert here. I may just have to floor it,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: we may have to go off the road or whatever,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: but this is not normal. Anyway, he seemed to just
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: slow down, and I was just about to go around him,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: and I saw some kind of like logo on the side.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I saw these kids in the back.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I was like, what is that?
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Anyway, we stopped and this Argentinian guy comes out. He
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: looked like for a long time, very happy, and then
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: his wife jumped out, and then these four kids popped out.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Is hey, we should talk. What is this taxi? Yeah?
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: And they've been on the road for thirteen years. They
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: had four kids, their oldest was eleven. They homeschooled them
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: all and we all just looked at each other and
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: whenever you see a line of what's possible, it's always broken,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: not always in person, but these it's always just moved
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: that one step further. And we just chatted, me and
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Leah the day we met, and I was just like,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: maybe one day we can do this, and this idea
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: came back. It came full circle. And it was always
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a joke, but send me serious.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: And then it just became the number one idea, like, Okay,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: let's do it. And if we're going to do it,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: we're going to do it properly. We're going to take
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: this opportunity. We're going to take this five year window.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: We're going to quit our jobs, and we are going
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: to do this properly. We're going to go and live
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: in the wild. Lea really wanted to just live in
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: nature after all the COVID stuff. Just get out in
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: the wild, get in nature, Reset, restart, and then I
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: just done. I was previously I helped set up the
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Explorers Club in Hong Kong, and then I was the
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: director for a while. And one of the big things
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: about the Explorers Club that I really like from a
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: mentality point of view is if you're going to go
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: and do an expedition, or you're going to go and
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: do something adventurous or something scientific, let's try and think
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: of a few other ways that you can layer it
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: and do some other things. Because, like we were saying before,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: eighty eighty five percent of the work is already done,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: so let's just put a little fifteen ten to fifteen
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: percent on top and do something extra. And the thing
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: that we came up is, like I mentioned earlier, how
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: can we do our bit to help protect what we love.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: And I did about two years worth of research into
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: conservation and how we could practically help. But in reality,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: every conservation project is very complex, there's a lot of stakeholders,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: it takes an awful lot of time, it's ever evolving.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: So it's not something we're going to be going around
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: the world setting up projects here, there and everywhere, because
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't be effective, it wouldn't be sustainable, and it
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: would largely be a joke, to be honest. But we
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: went deep on some specific people within that circle, let's say,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: and Jane Goodall was one of them, and she really
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: preaches that if there's one thing that if you really
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: want to help with conservation, tell stories, which I found
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: was a really odd thing to say, to be honest,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: and I sat with it for a while and I
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: researched and I just thought, this tells stories things really interesting.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: And then I dug further and read all her books
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: and watched everything she'd ever spoken about, and she said,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the beauty of stories is they resonate with everyone. It
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, what position, nationality, anything.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Stories resonate. If you can do a good job at
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: telling them, and she said, eventually, if enough of us
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: tell enough stories, the world will turn in a better direction.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: And sometimes it's just the right person that needs to
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: hear the right story at the right time they can
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: make a really big difference. Or sometimes it's just a
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: lot of people that hear the right story and they
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: all collectively make a small move, but collectively that makes
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: a big difference. So I just said to Leah, I
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: think this is what we can do. We can find
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: projects which are really inspirational but have substance that could
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: be used as a blueprint and used in many different
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: areas around the world. And their focus is not on
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: telling their story because of just the nature of who
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: they are. Their focus is on doing the conservation properly
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: to their highest ability and using all their resources effectively.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: It's not look at us. And so I thought, maybe
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: we can help tell their stories, which in turn will
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: bring even more resources. And if we choose the projects
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: properly and do the right amount of due diligence, then
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: those resources that we bring will be used effectively. And
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: so that was the plan. We're not professional storytellers, We've
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: never really done this before. It was a big part
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: of learning a new skill. Lea always wanted to go
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: down the YouTube route. I know that storytelling, just as
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: a skill is a very valuable one in human just
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: in life, and I just thought this would be a
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: really cool project as a family to do as well,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Like the kids are coming along for the journey obviously,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: and so if we had a purpose, and this comes
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: into the long journey about having a break for me personally,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: what I'd learned from long journeys is if there isn't
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: a purpose, there after a certain amount of time, when
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: the wow drops off, you start questioning why am I
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: doing this? Why am I spending this money? Why am
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I driving to these plays? And it actually becomes a
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: real challenge, a real psychological challenge. Whereas if you have
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: a purpose and a plan and you're lined, then that
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: happens less. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: happens a lot less and you're you're galvanized as a team,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: and there's interest, there's genuine interest from the kids, Like
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: even today, even just at dinner, Jack my son, he
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: wants to watch the snow Leopard video we've just done,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: like a snow project in the stem and so part
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: of that is the research and watching videos and we
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: try and do stuff. We don't like being on screens
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: in front of the kids, but sometimes we use it
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: as a way of educating them in a nice way.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Not sit down for an hour and learn this. It's
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: more just let's watch this video about snow leopards. I
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: need to watch it anyway, and you'll probably have some questions.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: And it's a really cool way of them to see
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: the world before we go to those places, and it
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: just adds this whole new layer of oh, daddy, we've
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: been here, we've seen this, or obviously they asked, left,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: where's the snow leopards?
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Day one minute?
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: One? Quite an elusive creature.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, one of the most one of the most elusive. Yeah.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's been a really cool way. Its got
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: to introduce an educational aspect but without being too full on,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: but also make sure that we're doing our job to
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: the best of our ability within a family on a
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: road and could we do better. Of course we could,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: but there's certain constraints and our priorities are where they are,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: and so we'll just do our best. But things are
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: gathering momentum now and that they're starting to pick up,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: and it's a strange thing that we're combining. And it's
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: been a real challenge with some of the conservation organizations
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: because the first thing they see is a car and
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: a family driving around the world. They think about burning
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: fossil fuels and the first thing they think is, we
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: don't want anything to do with that, which I understand.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I do understand that. But again, Jane good Or gets
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: the same She's flying around the world all the time,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: talking all that time, and they're just like, how can
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: you say you're out protecting the environment when you're on
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: planes all the time? And she said, I truly believe
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: that my impact by coming and speaking to this many
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: people outweighs the negative impact of jumping on a few planes.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Of course it does, of course it does. And it's
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: such a challenge it. Someone who's challenging Jane good All
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: on that is looking for a zero sum game. Yes,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: they're looking to increase their reputation by destroying hers. And
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: that's not how life works, no, life, That's not how
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: positive things come about is through a zero sum It
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: comes by I'm going to do everything that I can
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: to help, and you're going to do everything that you
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: can to help and there's an unlimited amount of opportunities
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: to do good. Yeah, I would certainly. I remember this
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: was at the RGS, and this was one of the
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: most one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Is
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: there was a guy up on the stage and he
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: was an older gentleman and he's at the RGS Explore
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: and he was talking to this entire group of young
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: people and he had completed a lifetime of adventure and
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: he was now lecturing this entire room of young people
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: on why they shouldn't take planes anywhere and why they
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: shouldn't drive anywhere. And the director of the RGS stood
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: up and said, that is easy for you to say
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: at the end of your life. Yeah yeah, And it
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: was like that was a very profound revelation to me
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: that it's all about perspective.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: And there has to be some level of practicality and
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: reality to things. Yeah, for sure, there just has to
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: be that level, because if we hold ourselves to such
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: unattainable standards, nothing is ever going to change because it
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: just becomes.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Nothing gets done.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it just becomes any one. So anyway, so
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: we took that and we ran with it. Scott and
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, and so now we start to do a
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: few projects. I think they're starting to understand because what
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: we're trying to do is do our trip, which is
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: obviously like an overland adventure trip, and have fun, of course,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: but that brings in a certain audience, and maybe that
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: audience might not be the audience that would necessarily be
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: interested in or know that much about conservation. Maybe, and
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: so maybe we could plant a few seeds for some people,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: because one thing we'd all have in common is everybody
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: has an interest in protecting nature and enjoying nature. And
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: so it's an odd thing to layer, and it's an
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: odd thing to pitch, but I think now people are
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: starting to see it a bit more. We do like
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: an adventure overland project. Adventure Overland project. It's very light
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: conservation and it's not challenging people. It's just dropping something
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: interesting in just I wasn't aware of that, And actually
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: the feedback has been really good. Most people like I
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: would never have watched that if you didn't slip it
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: in that way.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: It's so important, though, Mad and I just I have
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: such respect for what you guys are doing as overlanders.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: We must be conservationists. In my mind, there is no separation.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: There is no separation because if we don't do our
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: best to protect these wild places, they won't be there
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: for the next generation. Your kids won't be able to
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: see them. We have to do what we can.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I'm so aware of it, Scott, And I'm just so
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: aware of because we spend so much time in nature,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: like properly in the wild, like what it does to
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: people as humans, And I'm aware of that's where we
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: came from and what the modern life has done to humans,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: and you see it like you just see it everywhere.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: And if we lose like where we all come from,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know where that leaves us. I really don't
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: know species.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: It's and even more so given the current times. Yeah,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I mean it's as things become more virtual and artificial.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, exactly, we're all going to be plugged in.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: We're going to have like wires in US and chips
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: in US and like robotting around and efficiency and it's
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: all positivity. It's very possible, and I actually think people
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: will then need to balance the other side with nature
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: with a bit of reality and a little bit of
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: wind in their face and snow and ice and rain
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: and climbing up mountains and mud and sand, and that
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: is that's what we really are and you need to
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: remember that.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: So it was interesting we bumped into each other. I
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: think it was at the Colorado Overland Expo. Wasn't that
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: what we last?
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And you were just you were in the planning
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: phase for the trip, and I found it interesting that
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: you were really leaning into this idea of using a Grenadier, which,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: despite the fact that I really liked the vehicle, it
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have been my first choice because it was
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: just unproven for such a long journey. So it takes
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of courage to use a vehicle like that.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: What inspired you to do that would to make that decision.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: So it was actually circumstantial. It was timing, It was
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: quite a few things. So first of all, it was like, okay,
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: let's go and do this. Now. A lot of the
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: overland stuff I've done previously has been in wholly unsuitable vehicles,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: like the taxi way, worse Russian urals around Lake bikel
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: in the winter and bottom to the top of India
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: in a rickshaw, and all sorts of stuff. That's my
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: background that's normally what I would do. Leah looked at
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: me and she's there is no way we are doing
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: that with our kids. I am not interested. I want
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: something just.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: From a safety go yeah, and she said.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, and I also wanted to
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: do a lot more off road and remote And if
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: you start doing that with some of those vehicles you
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: just asking for, yeah, it just goes beyond the fun
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: level and it's just basically recovery of vehicles and it's
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: just yeah, it just kills it. So I wrote the
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: speck of my ideal vehicle, not attaching any names to
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: it at all. It was like, what vehicle do we
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: want and what capability do we want? That's the first
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: kind of thing. So I wrote all that out and
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: then I was thinking, Okay, budget wise, what are we
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: looking at now. This was during COVID where everything was crazy,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: even stuff that's ten years old, fifteen years old. It
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: was wild stuff. It was so wild. And in twenty
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: eighteen I did an expedition to Mongolia looking for dinosaurs
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: using the same technology NASA users to explore Mars. We
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: did it with Infinity. That was the vehicle that that
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: was the company that we were sponsored by and it
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: really made me think could this be a model for
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: the Explorers Club going forward? And it was at that
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: time I heard about Project Grenadier and I was like, wow,
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: this is a machine. If this actually gets made as
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: they say it's going to be, this would be perfect.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: So I went to speak to them in London learn
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: about it, and they basically said, we love your vision,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: let's stay in touch. Okay, cool. So I was on
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: the radar with them and vice versa. I was watching
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: them all the way through, and then when it came
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: to this trip, I was just like, never in my
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: wildest dreams did I think I'd buy a brand new car.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: But I was looking at it from a value point
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: of view, so I was just like, we're going for
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: five years. This car is brand new, but look at
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: the components. All the components are well proven. Look at
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: the team, Look at the person who's behind it. This
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: guy is a driven billionaire that's very annoyed by Landrover,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: and he wants to build something that is way better
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: than a defender. If you get in the way of
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: most billionaires, they're going to steamroll you. And that in
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: my head is okay. There's a lot of things lining
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: up here. And then if you buy a UK vehicle
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: you get five year unlimited mileage warrant it. And I
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: was like, this is convenient. We're going on a five
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: year trip and so I thought this makes a lot
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: of sense. Strangely, so I went to Lea and I said, look,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I've come to this conclusion, but
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: ultimately actually makes sense to buy a Grenadier. And I
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: love them, but I was trying to keep the emotion
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: out of it. I was really trying to because it
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: was a family purchasing decision to achieve an aim. This
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: wasn't like a Matt likes this car, let's go and
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: let's go and buy it, and so that was the
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: honest reason, Scott. So we went and bought it. And
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: the first time I saw one in the flesh was
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: That's why I was there at the Expo of twenty
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: twenty two to see a Grenadier and to see a
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Patriot X thray because I haven't seen either of them
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: in the flesh, but I'd committed to buy in both
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: of them. So it was just like just from a
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: timing perspective, because everything was so delayed during all those
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: COVID times. You had to make a decision very early
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: based on your departure date. Otherwise, like you're inland, it's
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: never going to happen. So when I met you, it
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: was like, Hi, Scott, I'm gonna go and check out
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: this grenadier that I've just bought and I'm hoping that
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: it is what I hope it is. And I got
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: there and I was like, Wow, what a machine.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: This is what I need.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: And I cross my fingers that what they said they
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: tested it turned out to be true, and they tested
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: it to the point that to the degree that I
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: needed it to be tested to, bearing in mind what
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: we were planning on doing.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: I think they did. I think they did. On the
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: durability side, you would have had a very early car.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Do you know what your VIN is? Is it in
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: the hundreds still or is yours in the thousands?
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: I honestly don't know. It wasn't like one of the last.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: It was definitely the first I could check. I could
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: look up my VN, but it.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Was it'll just be the last four digits of your
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: VIN okay.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: But it was basically the first few months there out
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: we had them.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Because the UK was one of the first delivery locations too,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: So yours was the really early car.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not as early as you think the last four
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: digits yeah, two seven six zero. Yeah, yeah, it was
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: the last two seven to six zero.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah, so very early, very early car, so that
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: within the first couple thousand of them that were produced.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that was the reason went for it. And
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: then I saw it in twenty twenty two, and then
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: we test drove it in the UK and December twenty
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: twenty two that was the first time I actually drove it.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: And then I was just an excitable, giddy kid just
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: waiting for it to be delivered.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: And then did you go with the petrol or the diesel?
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I spoke to lots of different people who have
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: done like significant trips around the world for many years,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: and the conclusion being modern diesel engines with the DPF
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: and the AD Blue and all these things that they
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: arguably could cause more hassle than it's worth on an
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: overland trip with what we were planning to do and
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: where we were planning to go, that would mean an
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: increased expense probably, Even though it's really interesting how fuel
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: prices differ country by country, sometimes diesels really cheap. Sometimes
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: petrol's really cheap. Sometimes that's a massive country, sometimes it's
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: a tiny country. So there's actually quite a lot of variables.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: But I was just going down the pure let's go
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: for simplicity, let's go for reliability. And we also still
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: plan to do a big section through Africa West Africa,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: especially where it's really hard to get good quality diesel
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of vehicles. I've just spoke to
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: somebody who will remain nameless, who did a pretty high
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: profile trip and had a lot of issues with new
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: diesel vehicles. I'll be honest with you, Scott. When we
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: were driving through Norway, I was crying, not literally, but
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: I was just like, why have you bought a petrol car?
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: This is so expensive? But I think over the long
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: term we've had zero issues with it, and we've met
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that have had DPF issues a lot.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, you just can't. That's why I used That's
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: why I used the petrol model for Africa's You just
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: you can't get ultra lo Soul for diesel in Sudan,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: you can't get it in Ethiopia, you can't get it
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: in a lot of West Africa. Yeah, the petrol makes
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: a ton of sense.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Though it's quite interesting. People are quite surprised, especially the
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: first because I've been monitoring all the forums, all the
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Facebook groups. It was a very small number of people
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: that got petrol. But now people are coming round to
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: the idea of ah, okay, now I get it. And also,
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: it's not a huge amount of difference in mars per gallon.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: It's at all not for that car for some reason.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly if you don't drive with a heavy foot. If
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: you do, it makes a huge difference, don't get me wrong.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: But if you just take it easy, actually it's okay,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: it's okay. So that's why we went with what we did.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm still happy with that decision. Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: And I did some longer trips in Kenya with another
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: Grenadier that was diesel, and the difference in fuel economy
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: was eighteen percent. It's just not enough to make a difference.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And so if you look at most people on
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: the forums and the arguments like four and again, so
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: you can see why and what they're saying. But I
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: think you just have to think of your own use purpose.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: What are you going to use it for and what
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: you're going to be happy with, and don't just default
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: to what you think based on what your friend says
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: or what was true ten years ago or twelve years ago.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Things have changed and it just.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: A matter of fact, your trip would be impossible in
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: an ultralocal for diesel car, and it would be impossible.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: There's just certain countries where you would have to bring
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: in so much fuel because you couldn't get like even
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Sudan for example, that's two thousand ppm yeah diesel, Yeah,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: like you can't. It wouldn't run for fifteen minutes.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know what's really nuts? Scott, Like,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: I've done a lot of these overland trips over quite
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: a long period of time now, several decades, and what
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: blows my mind still sometimes I literally have to remind
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: myself is twenty twenty four and it's still like this
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: in some countries. I know, we're talking in twenty twenty five,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: and it's just obviously in other countries there's been huge
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: development and it's unres recognizable and just what like a
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: lot has changed here. You could just change here and yeah,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I could be anywhere in Europe or America or whatever.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: There's almost no difference, but in other places it's still
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: really very back in the day and very simple and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: very agriculture.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: And then it's just it's crazy. It's crazy. I remember
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: being somewhere in Siberia and they were literally plowing the
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: field with oxen and a wooden trowel, and I'm like,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: and we're worried about these folks. There's nothing to worry about,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: there's nothing.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Very tough and resourceful people.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, incredible, incredible human beings. But just being an American
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: and you're raised with like this fear of this Russian
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: industrial complex and I'm like, yeah, so much, not so much. So,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: then where you at on on miles now on the
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: vehicle or kilometers?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: So we've just ticked over forty eight box and kilometers.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, and then let you know, just let's just be
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: really transparent about any of the issues that you've had
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: with the car. I think people need to know that
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: it's an early vehicle, but it's clearly it's made it.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: It's made it to by the time of this conversation,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: you're in the pall. How is how is it gone?
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: In terms of getting from A to B with no
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: major dramas, which is why we made this decision. It's
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: been amazing. Now is it perfect?
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Do we experience the same issues that a lot of
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: other people are experiencing, Yes with the air con and
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: just but I came from a Series two a Landroverscott,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: so this is an absolute dream to me. And also,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: I think because I've just done so much in so
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: many dodgy vehicles, like none of the tiny little things
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: that people get a little bit annoyed about, it just
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't bother me. I just I'm I'm more bothered about.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Are the four wheels still on the together? It's the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: important stuff working as it should?
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Is there some annoy bing bongs every now and again, Yes,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: there is. Does the airic on work perfectly? No, it doesn't.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: And we've had a few We had a trailer module
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: PCB failure, so that kind of blue. So then we
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: lose our lights to the trailer, which is not ideal.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: But it's yeah, and that does look like it's fairly
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: easy to replace because it's under the back seat, isn't it.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: It's actually the the trailer module is if you open
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: the back right hand door, it's on the right hand side.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: It's on the opposite side to the jack. It's like
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: just a small little box. So we've already got a replacement,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: so just plug. It's just a plug and play job.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: It's the thing that we had. We can't repair it,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: and it's just better just to get a new model module. Yeah,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: and then there's just like just sticky door after the rain.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: And I actually wrote I've written a long list.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I had that in the back I had it in
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: the back door where it was you need.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: A ton of red exactly. But you just tap it.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: It just becomes one of those The character is something
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: about the vehicle. You just get to know these things.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: You and I have spent too much time driving land Rovers.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Exactly, but I like it when you go up to
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: someone else's old vehicle and you try and do something
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: obvious and you can't do it, and there's a way
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: of doing it, and they always look at you and
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: smile and they're like, oh, you have to do this
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: and do that. What's this? And then it does it
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: Like why don't ask, It's just a Landover. It's just this.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: It's just what it is, and it just makes me smile.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: That's the character of that vehicle. And it's like a
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: relationship that you have with it. But yeah, I'm really
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: struggling to fight. There's a few bolts that came loose,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: but that's after just doing thousands and thousands of kilometers
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: on corrugated trail.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we did. We had some damage to the steering
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: damper where it started to yes jingle a little bit
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: because we yeah, we hit the jingle. We kept hitting
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: the yeah, hitting the exactly, we kept hitting the stone
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: guard and then it breaks that little well. But I
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: think they've improved that. Yeah, overall, I was just I
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: was shocked that such a new vehicle. Mine was number
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: three hundred and seventy two, so early production, such a
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: brand new vehicle, version one point zero. I was surprised
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: that it survived Africa as well as it did.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I'm just trying to look at other things.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: We've got a stone chip on our windscreen just like
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: everyone else. We've hit the bash plate quite a few times.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: It's quite low. We've given the rocksliders a good old test.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: But honestly, in terms of like stuff that's gone wrong,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: there's a few other little things, but it's it really
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: is nothing major at all. Scott. I'm actually very surprised
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: but also it's.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: A charming vehicle. It's a charming vehicle. I found myself
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: really charmed by it. Yeah, it's just amazing that in
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, like you're saying that you can even
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: find something like that from a deal.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: It's almost Yeah, it's almost like a it's like a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: kid's dream, and it's almost like you look back to
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: the retro vehicles and just imagine if we could have this,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: but tweak this and make this one a bit more
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: modern and have that and have a few of these comforts,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: but ultimately it's an off roa beast and it's been
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: built properly. And you say that to people in a
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: bar and they're just like, you're dreaming, mate. It just
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: we live in different times now. But so I'm just
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: really grateful. Like I said, when I was following Project
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: Rinader and I was watching all the updates, and obviously
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: there's always the doubters and the naysayers, and they're like,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: they'll never do this, and it'll never come to America,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: and it'll never do this, it'll never pass this test.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: There's always that going on. But just to see it
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: in reality, to see that first car and just think
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: this is real, and now I don't We don't see
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: many of them, that's for sure. But now the fact
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: that they're on the road all around the world and
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: people are starting to do some really serious and interesting
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: things with them just makes me smile. It's just cool
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: to see things break the mold.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it's such a rarity. It's such a rarity.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: And in your case, you bought the car yourself. In
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: my case, I received a loaner vehicle. Any US never
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: paid me any money to do any of the travels
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: that I did in it. I paid for all my
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: own expenses and everything I just got. I just got
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: a loaner car, like a press vehicle essentially.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we tried.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: We tried, because early days it's tough to get it's
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: early days.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: It was a bit chunk of money. But I think
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: it was so early that they just weren't even set up.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: And honestly, I think they probably got a lot of
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: people pitch all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas, and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: I think they're like, all right, let's see how this
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: goes and maybe we'll talk later.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: So they do cover. They do show your vehicle a
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: lot on their social media channel, so hopefully that gives
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: you some opportunities going forward. We could keep talking for hours.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: I'm realizing this now, so I think we're going to
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: leave the audience with a bit of a cliff cliffhanger.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: You've made your way across central Central Asia, and because
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: it's a petrol you have to carry extra fuel on board.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: I had to do the same. We both ended up
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: using one solution that was the same, which is a
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: fuel bladder, a rollable fuel bladder, which is really space
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: efficient if you need to carry a bunch of extra fuel,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: and let you tell everybody what what happened, and then
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna get you back on and we'll, okay,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: eve them with this cliffang right here.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, just to give a bit of a background on
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: the fuel, Scott, because you're right, we regularly have to
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: carry close to ninety maybe even ninety five liters of
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: fuel and so we have to work out how do
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: we do this in an effective and safe way. I
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: didn't want to have five Jerry cans. I think it's
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: like a little bit over the top, but it's the
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: obvious one putting rotor packs on the side that makes
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: the vehicle wider, or you put it on the back
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: and that makes it a little bit heavy on the
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: back door, which it could probably take anyway. So these
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: fuel bladders seem like a good idea and initially I
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: love them. They're much easier than jerry cans for refilling.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: You can put them away, it doesn't draw too much attention.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: A couple of Jerry's on the roof is okay. Five
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Jerry's on the roof like people are like, where's that
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: thing going? And we could also spread it out on
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: the trailer as well well. So we put some on
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: the roof of the car and some on the just
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: from a weight perspective, we don't want all that weight
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: on top and so you're top heavy on the car.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: And so we'd done a lot over four thousand meters,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: like around thirteen thousand feet over fourteen thousand feet hot high,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: all sorts of wild conditions, and everything had been fine.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: We did have a slight issue, but it was replaced.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: And then we were in Kyrgyzstan and thankfully we're on
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: a riverbed. We'd seen like this river setting from the
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: track and we're just like, let's go and have lunch
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: down there. Off. We went down, set up, got the
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: kids out in the river. Lea started cooking. The weather
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: was great, it wasn't too hot. It was like seventeen
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: degrees celsius. We were at three thy four hundred meters.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: I can't convert that into feet. I'm afraid straight off
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: the top of my head, I should be able to.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: But it's just because this is a little bit emotional
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: to think about. And Leo was cooking and I just
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: heard she just screamed, Matt, like in a scream, that
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: somebody really needs you. This wasn't an emergency with the kids,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: it was beyond that. And I just looked over and
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: what was strange to me is that there seemed to
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: be just gushing liquid coming off the roof of the trailer,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: which made no sense to me because I was just like,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: what's that. And before I even could reach the word that,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: the whole thing went up. And what it was is
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: we had one of those fuel bladders on top of
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: the trailer and it was clearly some sort of catastrophic
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: seal failure, and it was just it was leaters and
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: liters of water just coming very fast over the side
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: of the trailer where Leah was cooking. Obviously it all
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: caught a light, and it just happens so fact that
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: the only way I can describe it, Scott is all
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: of us must have made fires, like however old and
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: you just put a tiny little bit of fuel on
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: some sometimes to help, or when we were younger and experimenting,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: and even she put a tiny bit. It makes a
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: big difference, doesn't it. Let me tell you, when you
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: put twenty liters in one go, it makes a huge difference.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: And she was screaming, she took the kids away, which
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: obviously priority number one. And I just took the split
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: second to think about things because I'm basically watching my
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: whole home and dream and all our belongings just go
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: up in flames. And the next thing that triggered in
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: my head was flying and how do you put out
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: a fire? And the first thing that you need to
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: do is isolate the fuel sources. Cut the fuel sources off.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: There's no point trying to put a fire out if
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: there's more fuel going into the fire. It's like a
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: totally pointless thing to do. And then in my head
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: quickly I was like, okay, so we've got two gas canisters.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: We've got another one for doing coffees and stuff. And
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: we've got two lithium batteries, so the gas canisters are external,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: so I was like, need to get them off, but
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: one of them was already engulfed and it's pressurized and
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: we're at height. And then the other thing I was
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: thinking is if I can get that fuel bladder off,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: the one that's caught light, maybe I can control it.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: But I had burnt my hands trying to put the fire, like,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: trying to get it off, and it just happened so fast, Scott.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: And the other thing that went through my mind is
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: I remember stories of people during war being able to
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: do incredible things, pick up armored personnel vehicles on their own,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: because adrenaline is so those experiences are so wild that
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: the human capabilities are off the charts. And I was
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: just reminding myself, like, don't do anything stupid, Matt. Don't
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: think you're a superhero here. You've got a family to
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: think about. It's just a trailer. If it's all gone,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: it's all gone. It's just stuff. But the other part
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: of me is put this out. You don't let this die.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: Do everything you possibly can. And then the thing that
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: I haven't mentioned is we very rarely disconnect the car
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: from the trailer because we're trying to be efficient all
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: the time. So the next thing in my mind is
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: the car is still connected with a load of fuel
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: still on the top, and the fuel tank is at
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: the back of the car. Now, luckily the wind was
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: blowing away from the car, because if the wind was
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: blowing the other way, I think the whole lot would
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: have gone up and there's nothing I would have been
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: able to do about it. So I disconnected the car,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: drove it relatively far away, but I knew I needed
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: to run back. That's when I made the video because
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: I also know from like fighting fires in terms of
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: from a training perspective, like sometimes it's good just to
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: take a few seconds just to sit on your hands
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: and just think about your next move. Don't just make
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: knee jerk reactions and dive in and try and do stuff.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Just try and think about it. And at that time,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: when I was like, Okay, you're on a riverbed, time
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: to get the water on. Now you've got sources out,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: now it's time to get the water on. But then
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: there was just people that started coming from everywhere because
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: we're about an hour away from Even though it's very remote,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: it's actually quite a popular lake that people go to.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: And there was a tour bus going on that higher
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: trail that saw all the smoke, which is obviously an
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: unusual thing to see in that kind of environment. It
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: was big black billowy smokes got It's not something that
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: we would from like a yurt or something. It was
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: obviously serious and there was quite a lot of those
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: guys that came just running and just picking up all
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: the kids toys or containers or whatever, just chucking river
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: water on. Just everyone was launching water on And during
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: this whole time, Lee is just screaming. The kids are crying.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: She just wanted me to get away. It was like,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: this is really hard to relive, to be honest, it was.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: I just hope it hasn't messed the kids up too much.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: That's not They're.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: They're pretty young.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but there was a lot of screaming and crying basically,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: and why is daddy going back into the fire when
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: he should be here with us kind of thing.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you guys managed it. You guys managed to
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: get the fire out through all of that.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: I guess humanity, Yeah, I mean definitely a few strokes
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: a lot, because we camp in lots of different areas,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: and if that had happened in a different area and
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: the window be blown in the different direction, there's a
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: good chance we might not be here right now. It's
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: that serious. And it's interesting when you think about overland
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: trips and you're like, yeah, let's go and follow our
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: dreams and do this and do that, and okay, let's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: go remote, But then you do the maths on the
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: fuel and okay, we do actually need to carry quite
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: a bit of fuel here.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: You don't.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Possibly consider what might happen, and when it does, it
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: happens so quickly and you don't really know how you're
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: going to react. You just don't until you put into
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: that situation. So that was a real kind of holy
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: moment in terms of what I've considered a lot of things,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: and we thought, we thought about a lot of what
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: could happen, but not that, And so now it's really
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: made us rethink what happens from here.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: And it's just important for people to know that the
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: changes in elevation, it sounds like that this was even
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: possibly a failure of the product, which could have happened
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: like you're right. It's like I would have never imagined it.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: And for everybody listening, just to make sure that check
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: the seals on and I've never done that. I've never
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: checked the seals on a Jerry camp, but I'll do
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: that now.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: I mean never, This wasn't this wasn't the primary cap either, Scott.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: It must have been one of the one of down
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: the sides. And also my background's aviation, so I understand
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: you need to like not fill it to the max,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: not do the straps really tight, and they need to
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: be tight enough so it doesn't roll around and fall off,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: but there needs to be room for expansion. And those
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: bags they really I don't know if you really got
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: to altitude, but they really expand, which is fine.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: They do. I think I got to about ten thousand
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: feet in Kenya with.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: Them, and they do get really with on the experience
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: they're supposed to do, and that's fine. But I'd considered
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: all of that.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but like you hadn't considered the fact that
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: the product and there's no way to think about that
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: because if you think about everything that we bring along
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: with us could fail. But the reality is that I
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have put that as a probability. It's a possibility,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: a possibility, but I wouldn't have I never considered that
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: as a probability.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: So I think a remote possibility that you wouldn't have
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: fairly considered that in your realistic probability. I didn't, don't.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't honest consideration.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: No, not for me, it wasn't And I was fortunate
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: that I didn't experience that failure. And wow, when you
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: first let me know about that, it was just my
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: heart just broke for you guys, and I was so
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: glad you were safe. Yeah, And as time goes by,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: the solutions start to come about, and it sounds like
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: Patriot as are. They're champions of what you're trying to do,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: and Justin and the team are starting to step up,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: which is consistent with that company. They're an incredible company,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: and they're trying to help you guys keep the trip going.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: And I think it's just a we don't want to
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: end the podcast with it being I mean, Scott's such
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: a such a weighty thing. But what you guys are
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: doing is incredible, Matt, and I'm so proud of you
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: and your family. The fact that you guys endured that
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: moment of what would be described as pure terror, and
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: you're working through it as a family, and you're solving problems,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: you're making a plan on how to continue your journey.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: And I have no doubt that you will continue your journey.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: And how can our audience help. How can we follow
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: what you're doing. How can we support the next step
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: of you and your family continuing to travel around the
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: world and share this important perspective on these wild places
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: that you're visiting.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing Scott is just helping to
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: spread the word.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: We have.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: We have social media kind of channels for the actual trip,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: which is all at Project wild Earth or one word
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: like no dots or lowercase. We've got a YouTube channel
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: Whi's starting to gather traction now, and so the more
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: people can help spread the word and spread these stories,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: just like Jane Goodore said, that in itself is a
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: real help. It's the more traction and the more momentum
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: that we can get I think just will help the
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: overall snowball continue. I document the trip as well on
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: my own staff. Mine's a bit more Grenada Grenadier overland orientated,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: because I don't want to take a total replication of
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: the journey and myself. But obviously it's so aligned with
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: me and who I am and what I stand for,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: there's going to be a lot of kind of synergy.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and then going forward, everything's not one hundred
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: percent worked out just yet. To be honest, it's always
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: nice to hear from people, and maybe they'll be an
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: ask further down the line, but I don't want any
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: kind of like generic ask. It's a lot better to
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: be specific I think and reasoning behind any ask. So
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: for now, we just follow take an interest. I guess
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: if you want to talk to us, reach out to us,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: feel free, catch up on the journey, see what you think.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: It'd be really interesting because like I say, I think
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: it is probably the first time you've got like an
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: overland and a conservation overlap. So interested to know what
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: people think about that. And going forward, we do have
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: a plan. We'll just have to see how that unfolds.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: We're really excited to see where the next steps of
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: the journey take. You. To have driven across Central Asia
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: to have the vehicle now in Nepal, that is an
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: incredible accomplishment and one of many accomplishments in your life. Matter.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: You're an inspiration to so many. I've always had such
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: respect for the types of journeys that you've accomplished and
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: the openness that you have to experiencing adventure in your life,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: and that's such a reminder to all of us, to
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: the audience, to myself that I think it's a great
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: quote that I heard early on about sailing is go small,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: go cheap, go now. So I think it is certainly
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: possible to spend a lot of money on these things,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: but as you've proven in your journeys, you're better off
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: hopping in a rickshaw and going across India than not
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: doing it at all.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: So one hundred percent, honestly, Scott, I would really thank
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: you very much for those words. I really appreciate it,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: especially from yourself. It means a lot and talking about
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: like adventure. When I'm ninety one hundred whatever and looking
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: back on my life, this is what you'll remember. And
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: actually it's the worst vehicles that have always produced the
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: best experiences. Because I talked to so many people now
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: that just yak about how do you have an adventure
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: these days? How do you do this? How do you
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: do that? I don't have much money like I promise you,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: if you take that vehicle to these places, everything will
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: go wrong. You just don't know when, you just don't
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: know how, and you will have to solve it, and
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: that will involve whoever's around you, and you can't choose
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: that or what time of day that's going to be
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: or where that's going to be, and just all this
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: amazing stuff will unfold. It just will. You just can't
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: write it and you just can't repeat it, and that's
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: the beauty of it. So yeah, I really believe that
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: this is a fundamental part of life. And it's a
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: shame sometimes when people, even with the resources, there's excuses
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: as to why they can't do it, because there is
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: generally always a way.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can find a way, and then you get
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: to experience humanity from a fire hose. And isn't that
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: the point is to really understand the world that we
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: live in, the differences in people, but then also how
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: much we are the same. We all want, so we
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: all want for the same things. Enjoy your time with
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: your family in Thailand, Enjoy that little moment of respite.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: And we look forward to picking this conversation up soon
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: to get the next installment of your journey. It was
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: a genuine pleasure to have you on, Matt. This is
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: one of the best conversations I've had in the podcast.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: So thank you, Thank you, Scott. I really enjoyed it.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: As you can see, I can talk. It sounds like
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: you're making just talk and talk.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: We have a lot, we have a lot in common.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so look forward to catching up and thanks so
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: much for making this happen to it in person. But
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: maybe one day soon when we reach America, we will.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, we can put up we can shoot
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: a hole in the grenadier together.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that, all right.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: And as they say on that bombshell, thanks for Matt
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: for being on the podcast, and we thank you all
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.