Latest / Foul Territory / FairT: Gunnar Henderson & Christian Walker injuries, Vet "bad" deals

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FairT: Gunnar Henderson & Christian Walker injuries, Vet "bad" deals · Foul Territory

0:00
Speaker 1: They're not budgeting a year by year on their resale value,
0:02
Speaker 1: just as a family that owns a home doesn't budget. Ie.
0:05
Speaker 1: Get it. You're sitting on a pot of gold, dude,
0:07
Speaker 1: and you're going to get it at some point. Welcome
0:11
Speaker 1: everyone to the Thursday edition of Fair Territory. I'm Ken
0:14
Speaker 1: Rosenthal Hugh with Alana Rizzo. A lot of where I
0:17
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe midway through spring training, maybe a little
0:20
Speaker 1: bit less than that. And I'm shocked we're already seeing
0:23
Speaker 1: injuries some big insurers to talk about this morning.
0:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, Ken, when you talk to any sort of
0:28
Speaker 2: general manager, president of baseball operations, and certainly manager of
0:32
Speaker 2: the ball club, the only goal that anybody has in
0:35
Speaker 2: spring training is to break camp healthy. And there's been
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Speaker 2: a couple of injuries that really could have significant impacts
0:41
Speaker 2: in terms of where the team goes from here.
0:43
Speaker 3: Let's talk about that.
0:44
Speaker 2: First, Gunner Henderson as well as Christian Walker. What's the
0:48
Speaker 2: latest you can tell us and Ken if it happens
0:50
Speaker 2: to be a long amount of time for either of
0:52
Speaker 2: these guys, which team is hurt the most?
0:56
Speaker 1: First off, Gunner Henderson, right, Intercostal. It's one of those
0:59
Speaker 1: side it's not exactly clear yet how long he'll be out. Obviously,
1:04
Speaker 1: he's the Oriole's best player. They do not want to
1:06
Speaker 1: lose him for any length of time. But we're almost,
1:10
Speaker 1: I don't know, three weeks away from opening day or
1:13
Speaker 1: roughly three weeks away, So no reason to panic just yet.
1:17
Speaker 1: Christian Walker a little bit more of a concern for
1:19
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. He is dealing with a left
1:22
Speaker 1: oblique strain. A year ago, or actually last season, he
1:26
Speaker 1: had a left oblique strain that kept him out more
1:28
Speaker 1: than a month. He also turns thirty four at the
1:31
Speaker 1: end of the month, so he's a guy that is
1:34
Speaker 1: a little older, has had this injury in the past,
1:36
Speaker 1: and of course he is the Astro's biggest offseason addition.
1:39
Speaker 1: So when you ask which team would be hurt more
1:43
Speaker 1: by an absence, you'd be tempted to say the Orioles,
1:46
Speaker 1: simply because Henderson is one of the most valuable players
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Speaker 1: in the league, and that's true, but Walker is a
1:52
Speaker 1: pivotal player for the Astros as well, and if he
1:55
Speaker 1: is down for any length of time, that hurts them.
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Speaker 1: That said, all of that said, I don't want to
2:01
Speaker 1: overstate this either, Alana. We're again not yet at opening day.
2:06
Speaker 1: The season is a long season, it's six months long.
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Speaker 1: Injuries are going to occur, and whenever people ask me
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Speaker 1: for my predictions, I will tell them tell me who's
2:16
Speaker 1: getting hurt, and tell me who's getting traded, and I'll
2:18
Speaker 1: tell you exactly what's going to happen. We don't know
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Speaker 1: what's going to happen. And again with these two, certainly
2:25
Speaker 1: causes for concern, but I don't know causes for panic
2:28
Speaker 1: just yet.
2:29
Speaker 2: And obviously in spring training you're going to take the
2:31
Speaker 2: utmost caution when it comes to any sort of injury,
2:34
Speaker 2: not going to take any risks. But it does make
2:36
Speaker 2: me a little hesitant, Ken when you talk about an
2:39
Speaker 2: oblique issue and an intercostal issue as well, because the
2:42
Speaker 2: side pain, the side issue, you never really know. They're
2:45
Speaker 2: almost like hamstrings, and you never quite know how long
2:49
Speaker 2: a person's going to be out. You don't want to
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Speaker 2: reaggravate the string. Is this more of a situation of
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Speaker 2: let's be unbelievable, unbelievably cautious with these two guys, or
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Speaker 2: is it more of like, okay, this is especially in
3:00
Speaker 2: Christian Walker's case, there is some history here so we
3:04
Speaker 2: really need to be careful.
3:05
Speaker 1: Old Now, that's a great point, and these side muscle
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Speaker 1: injuries are tricky, and yes, there is a great risk
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Speaker 1: of reaggravation, and that is going to be the concern
3:15
Speaker 1: of each team. And sure they are exercising as much
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Speaker 1: caution as possible and will do so because clearly they
3:21
Speaker 1: want these players for the long haul. But yeah, anytime
3:25
Speaker 1: it's a recurring injury, that's a concern. Who knows. We
3:28
Speaker 1: have not heard great details yet about either of these
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Speaker 1: particular injuries, and it could be entirely possible that neither
3:36
Speaker 1: is going to miss significant time. But it's also possible that, hey,
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Speaker 1: we don't know exactly just how serious this will be
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Speaker 1: or either will be, and that they could be somewhat prolonged.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll definitely hear more from our friends over at
3:50
Speaker 2: Crush City Territory, those guys covering the Houston Astros and
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Speaker 2: how this will impact of course, then moving forward, if
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Speaker 2: in fact Christian Walker is out for a significant amount
3:59
Speaker 2: of time, the next topic here on the lead on
4:01
Speaker 2: Fair Territory, I was a little surprised by this, Jose
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Speaker 2: Iglesias actually signing a minor league deal and Jose Kintana
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Speaker 2: to the Brewers, what can you tell me about this?
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Speaker 2: And especially in the Iglesias's case, I was really surprised
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Speaker 2: that the Mets just wouldn't sign him. It's not as
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Speaker 2: if this is a one Soto type of contract.
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Speaker 1: The reason the Mets did not sign Iglesias was they
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Speaker 1: do not want to clog up their roster with players
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Speaker 1: who cannot be sent back and forth to the minor leagues,
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Speaker 1: and perhaps more important, they want to look at some
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Speaker 1: of their younger players. Louisiana Acunya, Brett Batty is another one.
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Speaker 1: These guys are in the mix, and that's why Aglecias
4:42
Speaker 1: didn't quite fit for them. He would have again blocked
4:45
Speaker 1: those guys and also prevented them from optioning him. Obviously,
4:48
Speaker 1: if they signed them to a minor league deal, yes,
4:50
Speaker 1: but then you have the same problem with the competition
4:53
Speaker 1: with Beatty and Acunyas. So Jose Iglesias. Last year he
4:58
Speaker 1: had three point thirty three thirty seven. Actually he had
5:02
Speaker 1: a four to forty eight slugging percentage. Now his expected
5:05
Speaker 1: numbers were lowered to eighty five batting average three sixty
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Speaker 1: nine slugging, but he had one of the best years
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Speaker 1: of his career. He also can play multiple positions and
5:13
Speaker 1: played them at a high level. For him to get
5:16
Speaker 1: a minor league deal is stunning, and you never know
5:20
Speaker 1: with players and their agents, and if the expectations were
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Speaker 1: too high, maybe he was waiting for the Mets thought
5:26
Speaker 1: it would happen. It didn't. We don't know the whole story,
5:29
Speaker 1: but the mere outcome a minor league deal for this
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Speaker 1: player is not what you would have expected. Ditto for
5:37
Speaker 1: Jose Kintana. It's a different kind of deal. He did
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Speaker 1: get a major league deal with the Brewers, but the
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Speaker 1: deal is really low for a pitcher who last year
5:47
Speaker 1: after the All Star Game, had a three point one
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Speaker 1: point eight ERA, finished with a three point seven five
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Speaker 1: ERA overall in one hundred and seventy innings. Now I
5:56
Speaker 1: know he doesn't miss bats. Heaven forbid a pitcher who
5:58
Speaker 1: doesn't miss bats and knows what he's doing. And I
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Speaker 1: know he's thirty six. But he got a two million
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Speaker 1: dollar salary for this year, two million dollar buyout at
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Speaker 1: the end of the deal, two hundred and fifty thousand
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Speaker 1: roster bonus. You can see all the details right there,
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Speaker 1: and his incentives max out at one hundred I'm sorry,
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Speaker 1: one point twenty five million if he does both these
6:17
Speaker 1: things twenty four starts and one hundred and forty innings
6:21
Speaker 1: for Jose Kintana to get the maximum amount of money here,
6:25
Speaker 1: he's guaranteed four likely four point twenty five one day
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Speaker 1: on the roster, he'll get that, and then another one
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Speaker 1: point twenty five in the bonuses if he maxes out,
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Speaker 1: would get him to five point five. I believe that's
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Speaker 1: about what Andrew Heeney got from the Pittsburgh Pirates. Again,
6:42
Speaker 1: it should be higher. So every year we see this
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Speaker 1: with certain veterans, they get caught, and Kintana had some
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Speaker 1: things working against him. His age is inability to miss
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Speaker 1: bats the way teams would like. But my goodness, this
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Speaker 1: guy is a great clubhouse guy for one thing. He's
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Speaker 1: a really good pitcher for another. And the Brewers, good
7:02
Speaker 1: for them. They got a deal here. But some of
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Speaker 1: these players that are still out there too, and I'm
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Speaker 1: thinking of Kyle Gibson and Lance Land and Anthony Rizzo
7:11
Speaker 1: and Alex Fradugo, David Robertson. Though I think he might
7:14
Speaker 1: be just holding out until he is ready to go.
7:18
Speaker 1: Every year we see this, we see the normal attrition
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Speaker 1: guys falling out of the sport. But they're major league players,
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Speaker 1: and it seems to me they should have a job
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Speaker 1: somewhere now. I remember talking with AJ Prizinski about this.
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Speaker 1: We talked about Rizzo, who I wrote about, and Rizzo said, well,
7:33
Speaker 1: I don't want to take a lower deal. I don't
7:35
Speaker 1: want to necessarily harm players in the future. And AJ's
7:40
Speaker 1: point was, listen, if you want to play, you gotta play,
7:43
Speaker 1: and you got to take whatever is being offered. And
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Speaker 1: I Glecy is his case, it was a minor league deal.
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Speaker 1: In Cantana's case, it was a deal well below his
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Speaker 1: actual value. I get both sides of the equation. And
7:55
Speaker 1: in a guy like Rizzo's case, he's made a ton
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Speaker 1: of money. He doesn't need to play for two million,
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Speaker 1: necessary earlier, whatever it might be. But it's difficult to
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Speaker 1: see some of these players still out there when they're
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Speaker 1: major league players. They should be considered major league players.
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9:11
Speaker 2: I completely agree with you, and you had mentioned something
9:13
Speaker 2: that's a key point in this You said, the normal
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Speaker 2: ATTRITIONI some of these guys is just their time, whether
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Speaker 2: it's age or no need anymore in terms of a
9:20
Speaker 2: roster construct or lack of production. And moving forward, Anthony Rizzo,
9:25
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, has played in this game, a long
9:27
Speaker 2: time World Series champion, has made a ton of money.
9:30
Speaker 2: But his former teammate, Alex Verdugo is a guy that
9:34
Speaker 2: you know, different personalities, certainly, but he is a guy
9:37
Speaker 2: that I believe still has a lot left in him.
9:39
Speaker 2: He's played for three very historic franchises. Are you surprised
9:43
Speaker 2: that he's still out there based on kind of the
9:45
Speaker 2: constructs of what is going on in this free agent market?
9:48
Speaker 5: Ken?
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Speaker 3: Or is there more to it than that?
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Speaker 1: Alani, You make a great point for Dugo is not
9:53
Speaker 1: the same age as these other players are talking about.
9:55
Speaker 1: He's a younger free agent. I don't know what the
9:58
Speaker 1: problem is here. And yes, he has a different personality,
10:01
Speaker 1: but teammates seem to like him, and maybe at times
10:05
Speaker 1: he can rub teams the wrong way. But and certainly
10:07
Speaker 1: he did not finish well with the Yankees. Okay, is
10:11
Speaker 1: he a major league outfielder. Can you help some team
10:14
Speaker 1: even in a fifth outfielders role, which he's better than. Absolutely,
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Speaker 1: So again, I don't know what his expectations were. I
10:20
Speaker 1: don't know what his agent's asking for. And maybe they
10:22
Speaker 1: had deals in place that he didn't like. Maybe there
10:25
Speaker 1: are places he didn't want to go. We don't know.
10:28
Speaker 1: But if you're asking the question, should alex Erdugo be
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Speaker 1: a major league player somewhere? Yes, he absolutely should be.
10:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, surprises me that he's not signed. Again, there's still
10:37
Speaker 2: a lot of time and as we know last year,
10:39
Speaker 2: last couple of offseasons, some of these guys not massive
10:42
Speaker 2: free agents in name Ken, but some of them will
10:44
Speaker 2: sign later into spring training and certainly moving on, you know,
10:49
Speaker 2: into the into the season perhaps if a need is there.
10:51
Speaker 3: Okay, don't forget guys.
10:53
Speaker 2: To get your questions in for Grill and Ken. Any
10:57
Speaker 2: opportunity that you have to talk to Ken Rose is
11:00
Speaker 2: a good opportunity.
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Speaker 3: So get those questions in. We'll get to those. Momentarily.
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Speaker 2: Wanted to ask you Ken a little bit as well
11:06
Speaker 2: about the Hall of Fame in terms of the contemporary
11:10
Speaker 2: baseball era, and from my understanding, this is going to
11:14
Speaker 2: be again beginning with the contemporary baseball era ballot for players,
11:18
Speaker 2: which be reviewed in twenty twenty five in December. Any
11:21
Speaker 2: candidate who appears on a ballot and does not receive
11:25
Speaker 2: votes from at least five of the sixteen voters will
11:27
Speaker 2: not be eligible to be placed on the ballot within
11:30
Speaker 2: its next three year cycle. So this is a three
11:32
Speaker 2: year cycle opportunity for this ballot, again worth the conversation
11:36
Speaker 2: of having is this a way of getting some of
11:38
Speaker 2: these perhaps controversial names can eventually into the Hall of Fame?
11:44
Speaker 1: Certainly can be interpreted that way. And the other element
11:46
Speaker 1: here is not only will a player who does not
11:49
Speaker 1: receive five votes need to wait six years to be
11:52
Speaker 1: eligible again, but if a player fails to receive five
11:55
Speaker 1: votes in back to back election cycles, so twice in
11:59
Speaker 1: a row, then he will be off the ballot forever.
12:02
Speaker 1: He will be ineligible. This strikes me this decision by
12:06
Speaker 1: the Hall as similar to the Hall's decision several years
12:09
Speaker 1: back to limit a player's eligibility to reduce it, i
12:12
Speaker 1: should say, from fifteen years to ten, and that was
12:15
Speaker 1: widely interpreted at the time to be something that in
12:20
Speaker 1: the bigger picture, was designed to clear the ballot, but
12:23
Speaker 1: in the smaller picture, seemed like a direct threat or
12:28
Speaker 1: direct hit to the chances of guys like Bonds and
12:31
Speaker 1: Clements who could not remain on the ballot long enough,
12:34
Speaker 1: and for younger voters in their cases respectively, to maybe
12:38
Speaker 1: enter the voting body and then have a softer view
12:42
Speaker 1: of them. That's generally how this works. The younger voters
12:45
Speaker 1: are generally more forgiving of the steroid era of players
12:49
Speaker 1: than people from my generation. Quite frankly, even though I
12:52
Speaker 1: voted for Bonds and Clemens in their later years of eligibility.
12:55
Speaker 1: So by effectively saying, listen, if you don't get five
12:59
Speaker 1: votes from an ear committee, you're going to be one
13:03
Speaker 1: off the baout for six years, and then two off
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Speaker 1: the bout entirely if you fail to get five in
13:07
Speaker 1: back to back cycles, it seems to me they're trying
13:10
Speaker 1: to limit the possibility that Bonds, Clemens, et cetera will
13:14
Speaker 1: be in the hall. Bonds and Clemens, if I'm not mistaken,
13:18
Speaker 1: did not receive five votes in their last try, so
13:21
Speaker 1: now it'll be a situation where they've got to get
13:24
Speaker 1: to five the next time. And then if they don't
13:27
Speaker 1: wait six years and then if they don't get five again,
13:30
Speaker 1: then they're off. We'll see.
13:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, Ken, because sometimes you think about the
13:35
Speaker 2: fact that all of these extra opportunities are just another
13:39
Speaker 2: way for these guys that have this asterisk connects to
13:41
Speaker 2: their name get in, you know. Seven, we're saying there's
13:44
Speaker 2: too many chances to get these guys in because they're
13:46
Speaker 2: not being voted in by you and your peers BBWAA
13:50
Speaker 2: writers now. But the other argument to that is sometimes
13:53
Speaker 2: these committees are even stricter than the writers.
13:56
Speaker 3: What is your take on that.
13:58
Speaker 1: That has happened, Alana, And that's a fair observation. The
14:02
Speaker 1: committees are composed of former players, executives, writers and others,
14:08
Speaker 1: and a lot of times they're people who are older, right,
14:13
Speaker 1: so they're going to be less forgiving of the steroid
14:16
Speaker 1: era of players. And I always find it's an interesting
14:19
Speaker 1: dynamic with the generational divide here because certainly my objection
14:25
Speaker 1: to the younger writers who do vote just En Moss
14:28
Speaker 1: for all these guys is that, Okay, I respect that decision,
14:32
Speaker 1: I respect any hall voters decision and choice, but you
14:36
Speaker 1: aren't there. You weren't part of it when it was
14:38
Speaker 1: going on. And you didn't understand or didn't experience the
14:42
Speaker 1: damage this caused to the game. So it's one of
14:46
Speaker 1: these arguments that goes around and around and around. But
14:49
Speaker 1: to me, what the Hall is doing here is again
14:52
Speaker 1: trying to limit the opportunities for these players, and I
14:56
Speaker 1: don't love that. I didn't love it when they went
14:58
Speaker 1: from fifteen years to ten. The fifteen years of eligibility
15:02
Speaker 1: on the Writer's ballot serves a great purpose because over time,
15:07
Speaker 1: in certain cases, we develop a greater appreciation for players
15:11
Speaker 1: and what they accomplished. And the best example that I
15:13
Speaker 1: can remember is Burt Blylevin. Burt Lylevin did some really
15:17
Speaker 1: good things in his career, but it really wasn't until
15:20
Speaker 1: the Sabermetric era when analysts started pointing out, hey, this
15:24
Speaker 1: guy was really good, and they made a very strong
15:27
Speaker 1: case for him that people like myself awakened to the
15:31
Speaker 1: fact that Burt Blylevin is a Hall of Famer. It
15:34
Speaker 1: took more than ten years, and for that reason I
15:37
Speaker 1: objected to the Hall reducing the years of eligibility. And
15:40
Speaker 1: I don't like this particular decision either.
15:43
Speaker 2: Me ask you this, Kenn, I'm certain that you have
15:45
Speaker 2: answered this before but I always think it's an interesting conversation.
15:48
Speaker 2: Do you think that there should be a place in
15:51
Speaker 2: Cooperstown in terms of an area for the steroid era
15:56
Speaker 2: baseball player? You need those guys in the Hall, perhaps
15:59
Speaker 2: to tell the history of the game. We can't erase
16:02
Speaker 2: the fact that has happened, and honestly, baseball benefited from
16:06
Speaker 2: the steroid era in terms of a resurgence of popularity,
16:09
Speaker 2: certainly on the offensive side of the ball.
16:11
Speaker 3: Pitchers didn't like it.
16:12
Speaker 2: I understand that, but there's not there's some pictures that
16:14
Speaker 2: probably you know, we are in question as well.
16:17
Speaker 3: Do you think that they should get in.
16:18
Speaker 2: But there should be a section of the Hall that
16:21
Speaker 2: is the steroid era section of Cooperstown.
16:24
Speaker 1: I don't see it like that. And my feeling is Bonds, Clemens,
16:30
Speaker 1: even a Rod and Manny, who I don't vote for
16:32
Speaker 1: because they used after rules and penalties were put into place,
16:37
Speaker 1: after it was a clear message from Baseball, don't do this. Okay,
16:41
Speaker 1: I don't vote for them, But even if they got in, Okay,
16:45
Speaker 1: my feeling is, honor them as you would honor them,
16:48
Speaker 1: Honor Barry Bonds, and honor Roger Clemens as part of
16:50
Speaker 1: the larger hall, the Hall of Greats, and put it
16:54
Speaker 1: on their plaque. This is part of their history, accused
16:58
Speaker 1: of this, did this suspended for this? And not in
17:01
Speaker 1: Bonds and Clemens case. I'm talking about a Rod and
17:03
Speaker 1: Manny and that's part of their stories, and that, to
17:06
Speaker 1: me is the way they should be outed, not in
17:08
Speaker 1: this separate penalty box wing of the Hall. I don't
17:12
Speaker 1: know that that would be too cool. I don't even
17:14
Speaker 1: know that they would like really not the player's choice.
17:17
Speaker 1: They wouldn't like it, and I don't know that it's
17:19
Speaker 1: right to do. I do think it's right to note
17:22
Speaker 1: on their plaques what they were accused of if they
17:25
Speaker 1: get in. And that's a slippery slope too, because we
17:28
Speaker 1: have some players in the Hall right now who are
17:31
Speaker 1: suspected of using peds and there's nothing on their plaques.
17:35
Speaker 1: So I don't know. It's a tough one. Obviously, everyone
17:39
Speaker 1: has their opinion, and I've written this many times before.
17:43
Speaker 1: I respect all sides of this issue, every opinion or
17:46
Speaker 1: any opinion a person might have. It kind of have
17:50
Speaker 1: to go on what you feel.
17:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly not an easy situation, very complex issue, if
17:55
Speaker 2: you will, But no separation of the kid's table and
17:58
Speaker 2: the adult table as far as is concerned at Cooperstown.
18:01
Speaker 2: All right, time now to move on from the lead
18:04
Speaker 2: to Grill and Ken. All Right, Ken, the first question
18:12
Speaker 2: here for you today comes from Bubbs. We appreciate all
18:15
Speaker 2: of the viewership and participation here on Fair Territory With
18:18
Speaker 2: Ken Rosenthal, he wants to know, Hey, Ken, do you
18:21
Speaker 2: think a soft reset such as what the Cardinals are
18:24
Speaker 2: doing ever works? How much evidence is there one way
18:27
Speaker 2: or the other? I feel like they just don't want
18:29
Speaker 2: to lose sales.
18:32
Speaker 1: Great question, Bubbs, and I wrote about this last week.
18:36
Speaker 1: I did not like the Cardinal's strategy and do not
18:38
Speaker 1: like their strategy for this season. Either in or you're out,
18:43
Speaker 1: and you don't have to go all the way out.
18:45
Speaker 1: You can retool on the fly. Teams have done this
18:48
Speaker 1: and now, in my opinion, is what the Cardinals should
18:50
Speaker 1: have done. Obviously, with Arnatto, it's a difficult spot. They
18:54
Speaker 1: don't have the control there he does, and he nicks
18:56
Speaker 1: the trade. Hellsley the closer certainly could have been created
19:00
Speaker 1: and brought value back. Eric Fetti a starting pitcher, same thing.
19:04
Speaker 1: So those are the moves that I felt they should
19:07
Speaker 1: have made as for whether this kind of thing ever works.
19:10
Speaker 1: The general feeling around the game is that it can't
19:14
Speaker 1: be caught in the middle, and this is what I wrote.
19:16
Speaker 1: The Cardinals are effectively caught in the middle here, and
19:20
Speaker 1: it's a weird situation that they've kind of created for themselves.
19:24
Speaker 1: This is President of Baseball Operations John mozelas last year,
19:28
Speaker 1: and some people feel maybe he doesn't want to have
19:31
Speaker 1: an embarrassing season in his last year. Some people feel, hey,
19:35
Speaker 1: the Cardinals. This is what Mozellac told me. We are
19:37
Speaker 1: the Cardinals. Our fans do not want us to tear down.
19:40
Speaker 1: I don't know that anyone thinks that they should tear down,
19:43
Speaker 1: But to get younger talent for Hellesley and Fetti, in
19:48
Speaker 1: my opinion, would have been the smart thing to do,
19:50
Speaker 1: and that would have been something we would have understood,
19:54
Speaker 1: or a person could have understood. This way, I don't
19:58
Speaker 1: like it at all. It just seems to me that
20:00
Speaker 1: they're wasting a year.
20:01
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you mentioned that this is mozay locks
20:04
Speaker 2: last year with the Saint Louis Cardinals, and certainly get
20:06
Speaker 2: more of this on a Cardinal territory with Katie Wu
20:09
Speaker 2: and Trevor Rosenthal. But Ken, when I ask you about
20:11
Speaker 2: a legacy for mozay Lock in Saint Louis, if you
20:15
Speaker 2: were to write a piece for the Athletic after his
20:17
Speaker 2: tenure there, what would stand out to you.
20:21
Speaker 1: They've had great success under him, and I don't have
20:24
Speaker 1: the numbers in front of me, but they've reached the
20:26
Speaker 1: postseason an awful lot. They've been in the n I'll
20:29
Speaker 1: see s quite a bit or at least a few times,
20:31
Speaker 1: and they've won a World Series. Now, the last few
20:33
Speaker 1: years have not been good. Mozay Lock would not dispute that,
20:37
Speaker 1: but they've had tremendous success under him, and I know
20:41
Speaker 1: fans are never entirely satisfied even when the team is successful.
20:45
Speaker 1: They can always point to things, and so can writers.
20:48
Speaker 1: But when you look at the breadth of his tenure,
20:51
Speaker 1: which I believe started in two thousand and seven, it's
20:54
Speaker 1: been pretty good. They've had a really good run under him.
20:57
Speaker 1: And the sad part, in a way, is that because
21:01
Speaker 1: of what has happened in the last couple of years,
21:04
Speaker 1: he's not going to necessarily be remembered finally at first,
21:07
Speaker 1: but over time I do expect an appreciation from Missaylock
21:11
Speaker 1: and what the Cardinals have accomplished.
21:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, for most folks, it's what have you done for
21:15
Speaker 2: me lately? That recent memory bias, that recency bias. Okay,
21:19
Speaker 2: a question now from Cheney. Does Ken think having more
21:22
Speaker 2: teams would help with big leaguers finding roster spots. I
21:25
Speaker 2: think this is in regards to all of the free
21:27
Speaker 2: agents and folks that are still looking for jobs at
21:29
Speaker 2: this point.
21:31
Speaker 1: Well, at some point baseball is going to expand to
21:33
Speaker 1: thirty two teams from thirty. That will create fifty two
21:37
Speaker 1: more jobs. So yes, I would say that would be
21:39
Speaker 1: something that would help some of these players. And I
21:43
Speaker 1: do want to point out again that this is the
21:46
Speaker 1: natural evolution of playing careers. Guys do get weeded out
21:50
Speaker 1: every year. It just seems to me that there are
21:53
Speaker 1: guys who are weeded out every year that you kind
21:55
Speaker 1: of wonder about and think, I don't know, that guy's
21:57
Speaker 1: still a big leader, that guy still should be playing.
22:00
Speaker 1: And while obviously their contract demands or requests and other
22:06
Speaker 1: things come into play where they might or might not
22:08
Speaker 1: want to play, it just seems that some of the
22:12
Speaker 1: names that are still out there right now should not
22:15
Speaker 1: be out there period.
22:16
Speaker 3: And I think the other side of that coin.
22:18
Speaker 2: Stephen Richter on our chat here bringing it up do More,
22:21
Speaker 2: he says that they don't need more teams, screaming about
22:23
Speaker 2: being small market teams. I mean, the expansion I would
22:26
Speaker 2: imagine is what maybe Nashville, if we're lucky, or maybe
22:29
Speaker 2: another small market team. Is their validity to that saying that,
22:33
Speaker 2: you know, two more teams, just adding the you know,
22:35
Speaker 2: more pieces to the pie isn't necessarily good for baseball.
22:39
Speaker 1: It's a fair question. And Nashville and let's say Salt
22:43
Speaker 1: Lake City or Portland, the western part of the equation here,
22:47
Speaker 1: They're not going to be in New York or LA
22:49
Speaker 1: or Chicago or even Boston. We understand that. But are
22:53
Speaker 1: they viable major league markets? Yes? And can they support
22:57
Speaker 1: teams and put out payrolls that are reasonable levels I
23:01
Speaker 1: would expect if you're going to expand that would be
23:03
Speaker 1: your expectation as a league. So the owners would probably say, yeah,
23:10
Speaker 1: we can absorb two more teams. We've got to have
23:12
Speaker 1: some salary restraints and salary control, and that's what the
23:16
Speaker 1: next CBA is going to be all about. But I
23:19
Speaker 1: will say this again, I've said this repeatedly, and it
23:23
Speaker 1: bears repeated commentary. There is an our sport, baseball, a
23:30
Speaker 1: soft cap at the top of the salary structure. It
23:33
Speaker 1: is the luxury tax system. There is no reason, in
23:37
Speaker 1: my opinion, why that same kind of structure can't work
23:40
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the payrolls situation. The payroll structure
23:44
Speaker 1: and the owners repeatedly have said, well, we're not going
23:47
Speaker 1: to do a floor without a cap. Well, you sort
23:49
Speaker 1: of have a quasi cap. You can have a quasi
23:53
Speaker 1: floor and let's see how that works. There's no talk
23:56
Speaker 1: of that. The owners want a hard cap and a
23:58
Speaker 1: hard floor. I get it, that's what every owner of desires,
24:01
Speaker 1: but it's not practical in my opinion for this particular sport,
24:05
Speaker 1: because it's going to lead to a work stoppage at
24:07
Speaker 1: a point in the sports history when it has never
24:11
Speaker 1: been in some measures, by some measures more successful.
24:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, owners would love it if the players would
24:17
Speaker 2: just play for free for the fun of the game.
24:19
Speaker 2: Ken Rosenthal, last question here on Grill and Ken. You've
24:23
Speaker 2: been all over the place in terms of camps already
24:26
Speaker 2: this spring training. Is there anybody that you've interviewed so
24:29
Speaker 2: far that you believe is going to have one heck
24:31
Speaker 2: of a year.
24:33
Speaker 1: Hmm. It's always rosy this time of year and everybody
24:38
Speaker 1: to have a great year. But one guy that stood
24:42
Speaker 1: out to me and talking to some Braves people the
24:44
Speaker 1: last few days, was Spencer Schwellenbach. And I know Jeff
24:47
Speaker 1: Passon wrote an article yesterday I believe in ESPN dot
24:50
Speaker 1: com mentioning ten players who executives think are going to
24:54
Speaker 1: have big years, and Schwellenback was one of them. He
24:56
Speaker 1: was great last year and he looks really good this spring.
25:01
Speaker 1: So that's one that stands out just off the top
25:04
Speaker 1: of my head. I'm sure there are others I could
25:05
Speaker 1: think of, but Spencer Schwellenbach a huge part of the
25:09
Speaker 1: Braves rotation, and that rotation one strider comes back if
25:14
Speaker 1: Sale is good, if Rinaldo Lopez is good again as well.
25:19
Speaker 1: That looks like a pretty interesting group. They've got Grant
25:21
Speaker 1: Holmes and Ian Anderson coming back to and they're going
25:24
Speaker 1: to try them as starters. Both are out of options,
25:27
Speaker 1: so they need them to be on the team in
25:29
Speaker 1: some fashion. But I just like kind of what I'm
25:33
Speaker 1: hearing about their starting pitching. Now. The question is, as
25:36
Speaker 1: I just mentioned, will Sale do it again or even
25:39
Speaker 1: come close to doing it again? Will Rinaldo Lopez do
25:42
Speaker 1: it again as well? Every team has these kinds of questions.
25:45
Speaker 1: But Schwellenbach is a guy who looks like he's going
25:47
Speaker 1: to be a star.
25:49
Speaker 2: I see what happens too, because Max Freed is no
25:51
Speaker 2: longer there. But it'll be good to see what Atlanta does.
25:54
Speaker 2: I'd never count out the Atlanta Braves. Love snit, love
25:57
Speaker 2: what they do. They're Alexanthopolis one of the best. Okay,
26:00
Speaker 2: time now for dude and dork of the week.
26:03
Speaker 1: Dude, dude, dude, all right.
26:11
Speaker 2: Due to the Week is a time when Ken and
26:13
Speaker 2: I get to give props to somebody or in an
26:15
Speaker 2: organization that we think had a good week, did something good.
26:18
Speaker 3: Who is your dude of the week? Ken?
26:21
Speaker 1: My dude of the week is someone that I wrote
26:23
Speaker 1: about today, Ronald Acuna Junior, and I wrote about how
26:26
Speaker 1: he has spent the past few years learning English and
26:29
Speaker 1: is now conducting interviews in English. He is from Venezuela.
26:33
Speaker 1: He is a person who has Spanish as his first
26:36
Speaker 1: language is native language. And not just a counya for
26:39
Speaker 1: Due to the Week, but all of the foreign born
26:41
Speaker 1: players who learn English and learn one of the most
26:44
Speaker 1: challenging languages there is in the world and then speak
26:48
Speaker 1: it publicly. It's something that is really difficult to do.
26:51
Speaker 1: It is something that I wrote about today because I
26:54
Speaker 1: kind of wanted to give people a greater appreciation of
26:57
Speaker 1: it and hope that they develop a greater appreciation for
27:00
Speaker 1: just how difficult it is for players to speak in
27:03
Speaker 1: a second language. That is a difficult second language. So
27:06
Speaker 1: props to Acuna and props to all the guys out there,
27:10
Speaker 1: Latin American and Asian who choose to speak publicly in English.
27:14
Speaker 1: It's not an easy thing to do.
27:16
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree with you more.
27:17
Speaker 2: I always give props to players that tried to do that,
27:20
Speaker 2: and having been one of those interpreters on the SIBE
27:23
Speaker 2: where you're trying to do questions in English and in
27:25
Speaker 2: Spanish and do all of those things, it's difficult.
27:27
Speaker 3: So I'm with you one hundred percent.
27:29
Speaker 2: I do have a question for you, though, and you
27:31
Speaker 2: can speak on this, having covered this game for so
27:33
Speaker 2: long and so many it's an international game, is it not.
27:36
Speaker 3: I mean, we're a year away from the World.
27:37
Speaker 2: Baseball Classic Games starting, so is there any truth in
27:40
Speaker 2: your opinion that some of the players choose to speak
27:43
Speaker 2: in their native tongue, not just from a comfort factor,
27:45
Speaker 2: but they also want to stay connected to their roots
27:48
Speaker 2: and folks watching at home, and their family members and
27:50
Speaker 2: friends and those types of things. Is there any substance
27:54
Speaker 2: to that.
27:56
Speaker 1: I've never asked that, but I'm sure that might be
27:58
Speaker 1: part of it for some players. I would, I guess,
28:01
Speaker 1: say to that in response that you could still maintain
28:05
Speaker 1: your native tongue and be interviewed in your native language
28:09
Speaker 1: for people back home while speaking English. But again, I
28:13
Speaker 1: don't want to cast a pejorative on any player who
28:16
Speaker 1: does not speak English. Some just never get comfortable enough
28:18
Speaker 1: to do it publicly. Hey, we all understand that I
28:22
Speaker 1: don't speak Spanish, and in the article it's one of
28:25
Speaker 1: the biggest regrets and biggest failings of my career that
28:27
Speaker 1: I never learned adequate Spanish to converse with players. So again,
28:33
Speaker 1: it's just appreciating the difficulty of it and understanding that
28:38
Speaker 1: what these guys do when they learn a new language
28:41
Speaker 1: and then are able to do interviews in the new language,
28:44
Speaker 1: that's really impressive.
28:45
Speaker 3: Kenny.
28:46
Speaker 2: The way that the game is going, you better start
28:47
Speaker 2: learning Japanese, and you better do it quick. Okay, George
28:50
Speaker 2: Mason is my dude of the week. They scored twenty
28:53
Speaker 2: three runs in one inning. And you might say, okay,
28:56
Speaker 2: maybe the other team was terrible defensively, whatever, But what
28:59
Speaker 2: I love about this is George Mason did at all
29:01
Speaker 2: Ken without a home run. How about some small ball
29:04
Speaker 2: at the college level.
29:06
Speaker 1: It's incredible. How you do that without a whole Well
29:09
Speaker 1: I know you do it. But yes, that was an
29:11
Speaker 1: incredible inning for George Mason. And good for them. That's awesome.
29:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, good for them. That's all we have to say.
29:17
Speaker 2: All right, time now for our dork of the Week,
29:20
Speaker 2: presented by John Fisher and today Ken. It's not a
29:31
Speaker 2: member of the athletics organization. Who's your dork of the week.
29:35
Speaker 1: Well, it's not even someone in baseball. It's Travis Hunter. Now,
29:39
Speaker 1: Travis Hunter is a college kid. He's going to be
29:41
Speaker 1: a high draft pick, maybe even the number one pick
29:43
Speaker 1: in the NFL. But listen to what he said this week.
29:47
Speaker 6: What's more difficult Probably mean what I do a football
29:53
Speaker 6: because it's a lot on your body, you know, Tunny,
29:56
Speaker 6: he's a great player, but you got to do a
29:58
Speaker 6: lot of your football, all.
30:00
Speaker 1: Right, He's right about that. Then it is hard on
30:03
Speaker 1: your body, and playing football, it can wreck your body
30:06
Speaker 1: offense or defense. But the sheer difficulty of hitting a
30:11
Speaker 1: baseball and pitching like Otani does, I'm sorry that is
30:14
Speaker 1: more difficult. Not more difficult physically perhaps, although Otani has
30:18
Speaker 1: hurt himself both on the basis and pitching, but more
30:22
Speaker 1: difficult in terms of sheer skills. So I'm being a
30:25
Speaker 1: little hard on Travis Hunter. But in general, I don't
30:30
Speaker 1: know that people appreciate one how difficult it is to
30:33
Speaker 1: hit at the major league level, particularly in this era,
30:36
Speaker 1: and to be able to compartmentalize and handle the two
30:41
Speaker 1: chores that Otani does, pitching and hitting. So Travis, all
30:46
Speaker 1: the best to you. I'm sure you're gonna have a
30:48
Speaker 1: great NFL career and I'll enjoy watching you. But I
30:51
Speaker 1: don't know that you're here your sports Otani just yet.
30:54
Speaker 2: And so funny, I have so much to say about
30:56
Speaker 2: this because I am a University of Colorado Alam, I'm
30:59
Speaker 2: a big Travis Hunter fan. I'm a big CU football fan.
31:03
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give him a pass just for a second.
31:05
Speaker 2: A lot of questions going on at media day, those
31:08
Speaker 2: types of things.
31:09
Speaker 3: A quick answer, very very good kid. I do think
31:13
Speaker 3: I agree with him.
31:13
Speaker 2: The physical toll on a body what he does is harder,
31:16
Speaker 2: but the absolute skill set of what o'tani does is
31:20
Speaker 2: much much harder, and his own coach is only surrogate.
31:23
Speaker 3: Father Dion Sanders, who.
31:25
Speaker 2: Was the coach of the University of Colorado, was a
31:27
Speaker 2: two way player himself in football, and even the coach
31:30
Speaker 2: Prime said that hitting a baseball is the hardest thing
31:35
Speaker 2: in the world that he's ever done.
31:37
Speaker 3: He was a two sport athlete.
31:38
Speaker 2: Atlanta Falcons obviously went to FSU the whole thing played baseball.
31:43
Speaker 2: Listen to your coach, Travis, it is harder to hit
31:46
Speaker 2: a baseball in the accurate way and the unbelievable way
31:49
Speaker 2: that o'tani does a lot harder than going you know,
31:52
Speaker 2: defensive back and wide receiver as far as that is concerned.
31:56
Speaker 2: Love your kid, go buffs, best of luck in the NFL.
31:59
Speaker 3: All right, my dork of the week.
32:02
Speaker 2: And this is on a technicality because I noticed it
32:05
Speaker 2: this week, but it was actually written last week. It
32:08
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. It's still pissing me off.
32:09
Speaker 3: Today.
32:10
Speaker 2: Artie Moreno is saying that he thinks that the Angels
32:13
Speaker 2: are basically going to take a loss.
32:14
Speaker 3: Jeff Fletcher posted this last week.
32:16
Speaker 2: Of course, Jeff Fletcher does a great job for the
32:18
Speaker 2: Orange County Register. Moreno spoke on a variety of topics,
32:23
Speaker 2: the bottom line, the winter he was selling it now
32:25
Speaker 2: he isn't, and the ballpark, but he said that they're
32:28
Speaker 2: going to lose at least fifty million this year.
32:29
Speaker 3: Well here's a thought, Alardy. Again, I'm not the.
32:32
Speaker 2: Smartest person in the room, but maybe you don't sign
32:35
Speaker 2: ridiculous contracts to people who never play. Maybe you build
32:40
Speaker 2: a roster that's not just unbelievable position players, one that
32:44
Speaker 2: never wants to play and doesn't like to play the
32:46
Speaker 2: game of baseball. And maybe you put a product on
32:50
Speaker 2: the field that makes fans want to come to your stadium.
32:52
Speaker 2: Or maybe you don't flip flop on wanting.
32:54
Speaker 3: To sell the team. That's all, that's all I have.
32:58
Speaker 2: He's my dork of the week, So it is an
33:00
Speaker 2: owner ken, It's just not John Fisher this week.
33:02
Speaker 1: It's already Moreno, well Arty, moreno, Alana. You make great
33:07
Speaker 1: points on him. And also let's not forget the resale
33:10
Speaker 1: value of his team, which is skyrocketed under his ownership.
33:14
Speaker 1: Like all teams of skyrocketed, and I know they're not
33:17
Speaker 1: budgeting the year by year on their resale value, just
33:20
Speaker 1: as a family that owns a home doesn't budget. I
33:22
Speaker 1: get it. But my goodness, you're sitting on a pot
33:25
Speaker 1: of gold, dude, and you're going to get it at
33:27
Speaker 1: some point.
33:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt about it.
33:29
Speaker 2: There's a note here on our chat from Elisheva Jones,
33:32
Speaker 2: who is a good fan of ours, on Dodgers territory.
33:34
Speaker 2: Here for you Ken on foul territory. She said, you
33:37
Speaker 2: guys haven't played football apparently.
33:40
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. We haven't want to
33:42
Speaker 3: tell you what you tried it.
33:43
Speaker 2: You tried to head a ninety nine mile an hour fastball,
33:45
Speaker 2: Elis Chevin, tell me, tell me how you do that?
33:48
Speaker 3: All right.
33:48
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33:51
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34:23
Speaker 2: that's going to do it for Ken Rosenthal and myself
34:26
Speaker 2: here on Fair Territory. Up next, it is Foul Territory A. J.
34:30
Speaker 3: Pierzynski.
34:30
Speaker 2: He's at Phillies Camp. He is joined by Eric Kratz.
34:33
Speaker 2: Scott braun is your host. Dodgers Territory will follow with
34:36
Speaker 2: myself and Clymphesis and we are going to see Ken
34:39
Speaker 2: back on Monday with a brand new episode.
34:42
Speaker 3: Take care