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Data Disruption and Doing It Differently – How Women Are Building the Future of AI · Serious Lady Business

• Leslie Youngblood (00:01) Welcome back to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist, and fellow founder of Youngblood MMC, a marketing media and content agency. With us today is Virginia Puccio, founder and CEO of Fuel AI, the global marketplace connecting smartphone photo takers with AI builders in need of first party data. With a career spanning Google, Retail Next, Standard AI, and the Jewish Community Center of Silicon Valley, Virginia blends experience across tech giants, startups, and nonprofits. She led global data ops at Standard AI during its billion dollar rise and later drove strategic growth at Data Pure before founding Fuel AI. Off the clock, Virginia is a former Division I rugby player, turned soccer player, coach and mentor, a proud UC Davis and Santa Clara MBA grad, and a passionate community leader championing education, diversity, and women's sports. Virginia. Welcome to Serious Lady Business. Virginia Puccio (01:00) ⁓ thank you, Leslie. I'm so excited to be here. Leslie Youngblood (01:03) I can't wait to dive into data disruption and doing it differently with you. You know, how women are building the future of AI. ⁓ You've had such a dynamic career from Google and Standard AI, launching your own company. What inspired that leap for you from operator to founder? Virginia Puccio (01:21) You know, ⁓ it's funny because when I was younger, I always thought like, okay, I want to be a CEO someday. I want to be CEO someday. And then ⁓ I started working at startups. I fell in love. ⁓ the closer I got to CEO and COO in terms of working for them, so I was reporting directly to them or working very closely with them, I started to realize I don't want this. I changed my mind. Leslie Youngblood (01:28) I love that! Mmm. Wow! Virginia Puccio (01:49) I don't want to be a CEO. don't, you know, I don't want to be a COO. I don't want to be at the top. It's a lot. It's hard. You know, there's so much, there's so much to juggle. There's a ⁓ lot of politics and I just didn't want to be involved in that. But I knew that I wanted to be close. I love to roll up my sleeves. I love working on challenging problems. And then the idea for, for fuel came up and I just, it was, you know, it was, it was pulling me. So I reached out to one of my good friends who's also my co-founder. Leslie Youngblood (01:54) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Virginia Puccio (02:16) We had founded a couple of companies previously, but nothing that really stuck or took off. This is the first, you know, that really has teeth. And so I said, do you want to work on this with me? You know, I have this idea. And he was like, absolutely. I've you know, we've we've been trying. So I think this is the one. And he said, and I said, OK, so who's going to be the CEO? And he was like, well, you're going to be the CEO. And I was like, I don't I don't want to. You know, I told you I want to be. Leslie Youngblood (02:38) Ooh. Are you sure? Yeah. ⁓ Virginia Puccio (02:42) And he was, no, you have to, you know, you're the, ⁓ it's your vision, it's your idea. And I said, okay, but I don't want anybody to report to me. Everybody has to report to you. And so, you know, we kind of laughed and he was like, ⁓ I'm going to report to you. And I'm like, yeah, but you're easy. So that was how we structured it from the beginning. But really it was just this poll, like this has to be done. This is the time now. This is the idea. This is right. So I took the jump. Leslie Youngblood (02:47) Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah, I love that. I feel like in so many conversations and even for myself, you always like, no, I don't want to do that. And the universe kind of forces you to or like just keeps tapping you and tapping you and tapping you until you actually give into it, right? Because it's like, no, this is what you're meant for. You have to do it. And so I love that like you tried to fight it, but you just couldn't. And I do feel like too, like that's when you know that you're meant to be doing that thing, right? Virginia Puccio (03:37) Right. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (03:38) So I think that's really wonderful. And I love that Fuel is on a mission to democratize the global AI industry by offering regular, everyday people the opportunity to monetize their first party AI training data and contribute to shaping the future of AI. It's like mind blowing. And I want you to explain to our listeners out there what that means. But first, I want you to share the impetus for launching and the problem you saw in the AI space that nobody else was solving. Virginia Puccio (04:07) Right, I had my first, you know, I started in AI back in 2018. I was working for Standard AI. And so basically I was the head of the data operations division, the data operations department. So we were kind of our own little division within the company. We were responsible for the collection of the data, the annotation of the data. We would turn that over to the machine learning engineering team. they would build the models and then they'd give it back to us. We would test it. My co-founder who worked at that company with me, his team would put it into production. And then my team again would monitor to make sure that it was making appropriate decisions, accurate decisions. And so that data collection piece is at the top of the funnel. And so I, fast forward a few years, I worked on that for a few years, fast forward to 2022. So that was back in 2018. Leslie Youngblood (04:54) Mmm. Virginia Puccio (05:04) In 2022, I kept seeing all of these articles that said, we're running out of data to train AI. There's no more data to train AI. We've consumed almost the entire internet and we're running out of data to train. And I'm like, how is that possible? Yeah, I mean, you can look that up. There are multiple articles on that. And so I thought, but I thought to myself, like, how is that possible? if you, one of these, this contains so much Leslie Youngblood (05:16) Whoa! Really? Disney. Right. Virginia Puccio (05:32) information, so much data that can be used to train AI and companies would love to get their hands on just one of these, let alone a ton of these. But there's no there was no mechanism to to connect people with who have this with, you know, right, a cell phone for those who can't see. That's right. Our smartphones have so much data. And how do they connect? How do we connect those with people who are companies that are building AI? Leslie Youngblood (05:39) Right. Yeah. ⁓ Mm-hmm, a cell phone. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Virginia Puccio (06:02) And so that Leslie Youngblood (06:02) Hmm. Virginia Puccio (06:03) was the one of the first things that I saw. And then I saw there's all these lawsuits because, ⁓ you know, people are creating data and, ⁓ you know, I think like Sarah Silverman had a lawsuit. There were a few others who were creating and they knew that their ⁓ data was being used to train AI. And so I thought, okay, Leslie Youngblood (06:10) Yeah. Virginia Puccio (06:27) That's also an issue because if I just say, yes, you can use what's in my cell phone, I'm giving you permission, you're going to pay me for it, then that's first party data and we can avoid those lawsuits. ⁓ So that was the second thing. then, you know, so I started talking to a few people about it. What do you think about this idea? And just a few months after I got the idea, Chachupt went primetime. Leslie Youngblood (06:35) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ wow. Virginia Puccio (06:53) There were those of us who knew that AI was going to be the next, the wave of the future, the invention of, you know, almost like fire, I think as some said, yeah. so, and then there were most of the world didn't know, you know, they knew about this thing AI that was just kind of being talked about, but they didn't really know what it was capable of. When chat GPT went primetime, they knew what it was capable of. They knew there was no, you know, hiding under a blanket or a rock about it. Leslie Youngblood (06:57) Mmm. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. right. Right. Mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (07:22) And so that's where I said, okay, I've got this great idea. There's all these lawsuits. We're running out of data. Everyone now knows about AI. And so I decided to go ahead and launch. And it's really important, I think, that we pay people for their data. Whether it's a content creator, such as someone like Sarah Silverman, who has a lot of notoriety, Leslie Youngblood (07:47) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (07:51) Or if it's just the average person who's, you know, we're scraping their data and taking it from them. It's just me, you or, you know, my neighbor next door. We should have the opportunity. ⁓ Jaron Lanier, I just heard him speak last week about data dignity and giving people credit for their data, for their ideas, for their content and giving them some sort of monetization. And so that's what we're really doing is we're giving. Leslie Youngblood (07:56) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Virginia Puccio (08:18) the average everyday person the opportunity to contribute to AI and to be rewarded for contributing to the building of AI. Leslie Youngblood (08:24) Yeah. Which I think is so profound because I think most people think, ⁓ AI and tech in general, I can't participate in that or I don't know anything about AI. But it's as simple as allowing, you know, getting paid for your data or for doing what you do every day through a platform like Fuel AI that yes, you can. You can actually play a vital part in the evolution of AI and where we're going in the future with it today. Like that's just, and I love to, no matter where you live too, right? Like it's a very like, democratic platform that you can be in a big city, you can be in the country, right? You can make X amount of dollars or make as little, you know this, like everybody can do it. And so I think that is so incredible too. And I think that it's so wonderful that a woman came up with that, Virginia, that you came up with this, right? Because I think that it's just critical for women in general, right? To lead more businesses. Virginia Puccio (08:52) Right. Thank you. Leslie Youngblood (09:22) ⁓ But in the AI and data space right now, and so I would love to get your take on the importance of having more females in that space at this point in time. Virginia Puccio (09:34) Because I think we know what happens when we don't. And that's that we're seeing a lot of bias in AI, especially early forms of AI, ⁓ back in the time when I was working on it. We're just seeing a lot of bias. People don't get to, if they're not involved in designing, ⁓ we don't get a chance to see what the human race, ⁓ the human experience is not just male. It is, I mean, we have to say it's male dominated, but it is not just males that exist, right? ⁓ So we need to see that women in that because then we can pull out some of the bias and ⁓ start making it more equitable. Leslie Youngblood (10:06) Sure, right? Yes. Mm hmm. 100%. You said that you disrupt male dominated data sourcing. Is that what that looks like in practice? In what resistance have you faced in doing that? Virginia Puccio (10:28) Yeah, so in practice, it's ⁓ completely rethinking who gets to contribute to AI, who gets paid for it. ⁓ AI for so long has been dominated by these homogenous networks. It's mostly male engineers, especially from the beginning. And it's not like they're writing bias into the AI. feeding them, they're not writing algorithms that are inherently biased. It's that the data that was going into them, especially from the beginning, was really limited and narrow because it was truly mostly straight white men who were writing these algorithms. then they were, so the algorithms, know, are just math is math. ⁓ But then they're using their own data because that's what they have access to. Leslie Youngblood (11:17) Mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (11:23) So they're using data of themselves, of their friends, of their families, and it becomes this very homogeneous data set. ⁓ And so that's really ⁓ where the issue came into play. But then when you get, let's say you get a black woman or a trans person or a differently abled individual, if all of those people are gonna be using AI, then they need to be able to contribute as well so that it will make appropriate decisions. Leslie Youngblood (11:23) Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (11:53) ⁓ and make more accurate decisions ⁓ based on the data that it's getting. Leslie Youngblood (11:55) Mm-hmm. Right, it just makes the data set stronger and more comprehensive, I would imagine, right? Like in general, right? The more perspectives, the more uniqueness, like it makes everybody better. So of course that correlates to data and people might not think, cause like you think of numbers as numbers, math is math, but like, no, it's so true. Like you need those unique perspectives. You need every single person's uniqueness to contribute to that. If we're truly, truly going to create something. you know non-biased and that's going to help every single person that's going to use it because that who doesn't want I mean I Like you said with on chat GPT going primetime. I think a year ago a year ago I don't even think it was primetime now I know I use it every day everybody I talk to uses it every day, know I people that wouldn't even expect to use every day use it and it's just mind-blowing how quickly the wave has just caught and how it has gone primetime and so it needs to be able to Virginia Puccio (12:30) That's good. Right. Leslie Youngblood (12:56) deliver for every type of person because it's out there now and it's not going anywhere. ⁓ So I love that. What is something the average business leader misunderstands about how AI systems get built, Virginia? Virginia Puccio (13:01) Yeah. think probably the average business leader doesn't really know that. I think they kind of feel, we all kind of feel this way, not just business leaders, but AI is kind of like this magic. And in some ways it is feels magical, ⁓ but there's just a ton of people behind AI. It takes so many people to build AI. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (13:34) Yeah. Virginia Puccio (13:35) You know, there are people who have to collect the data and we're talking, you know, it could be tens, but it could be thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands, millions of data sets, millions of data points that we need. So they collect it, they annotate it. It has to be annotated by people. Now, AI is starting to be able to annotate data to some extent, but you've always got to have a person, we call it a human in the loop, who goes back in. Leslie Youngblood (13:48) Mm-hmm. Crazy. That's crazy. Bye. Virginia Puccio (14:05) and make sure that it's right because AI makes mistakes. We all know it makes mistakes. so I think that's what the average business leader, the average person doesn't understand is that there's a ton of people behind it and you really have to make sure that you're checking its work. It really is like ⁓ a college intern who needs constant guidance. Leslie Youngblood (14:08) Right. Yeah. Yeah. huh. Virginia Puccio (14:33) needs direction, needs to be checked to make sure that their sources are correct ⁓ and that kind of thing and that the information that it pulled from those sources is correct and didn't just take it as the gospel. ⁓ So yeah, I think that's probably what, yeah. Leslie Youngblood (14:39) Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, that's so true. I never thought about it like that. Because, right, I just think, wow, this is amazing. This is magic. It's giving me all the answers. But it really is very human. And I think quantum computing is magical. And I think there's probably more magic involved in that. But still, there's people still behind it, right? ⁓ And so I think this is a great segue to my next question is, you describe fuel AI as people first. So how do you balance that cutting edge tech with human trust and then transparency, Virginia? Virginia Puccio (14:58) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, absolutely. So ⁓ from day one, we've put our bounty hunters, that's what we call them, because we've gamified the system to make it a little bit more fun and engaging. Those people who collect data, ⁓ we put them at the center. So they know ⁓ exactly what project they are going to be working on. They get to choose whether or not they want to work on a project. We call them missions. ⁓ They get to decide how much of the mission they want to work on, if they only want to work on this aspect or they only want to work on that aspect. Leslie Youngblood (15:29) Yeah. amazing. I love it. Virginia Puccio (15:51) They get to see ⁓ what the data is being used for. We explain to them what the data is going to be used for. ⁓ They get a chance to know exactly upfront. It's very transparent how much, ⁓ the cost or the price is going to be to them, what their payment is going to be, how much percentage we're going to take. ⁓ So they get to see that as well right upfront. Everything's just been really transparent. Everything's about the bounty hunter from the center. Leslie Youngblood (15:55) Wow. Mmm. Mmm, mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (16:19) Yes, the AI builder is the customer on the customer, the buy side that's paying the bills because we are a two-sided marketplace, but the bounty hunter is the one who's really providing all that data. And if we didn't have that supply side, then the AI builders wouldn't be able to train their models or they'd have to find another way. And so we really are making sure that those bounty hunters are being treated fairly, that they're aware of everything they're doing. Leslie Youngblood (16:26) in. Right. Virginia Puccio (16:48) They're free to work on projects if they want to or if they don't want to. So that's really how we're putting them at the center. Leslie Youngblood (16:51) Mm-hmm. That's so fascinating. So you have ⁓ like a client come and say, I'm working on this and I need data to train our AI. And then that project goes out to the bounty hunters who can raise their hands or not and say, yeah, I'm going to contribute data to this. it could, and all that data goes to then that client. it's like that, like you said, that two sided marketplace. That is amazing. Cause you would just think, ⁓ I mean, somebody outside of AI, right? Like, ⁓ people are building AI's, you know, all the time. And Virginia Puccio (17:11) Exactly. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (17:23) But how do they get those data sets? I mean, I never really even thought about that. And so I think that's so, or you have an idea to train in AI, you do need to go out and get people to contribute to that. So I think that's just so fascinating. ⁓ And so for you, you've been involved in billion dollar startup teams and now your own venture. What is one leadership lesson that surprised you during that shift? Virginia Puccio (17:27) Yeah. ⁓ I would say you really have to be willing to relearn yourself over and over and over again. it's super uncomfortable. ⁓ I totally agree. I, you know, what I've learned about myself is I'm a really good leader. I can inspire people. ⁓ I can execute really well. I can rally. But the truth is I'm a shitty manager. Leslie Youngblood (17:56) Very comfortable, Virginia. That's really hard. Virginia Puccio (18:16) ⁓ I really think I'm a shitty manager. ⁓ you know, I'm, have my expectations are really high. ⁓ I'm impatient. I'm incredibly direct. Some people say I'm too direct. I don't sugarcoat. It's just not my style. I almost don't even don't know don't know how I can come across as intense, intimidating as harsh. own that. But the difference now is that I talk about it. And I tell my team, Leslie Youngblood (18:24) Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. Mmm. Virginia Puccio (18:45) You guys, I'm a crappy manager. I'm learning, you know, I'm learning to be a better manager. I check myself a lot more. After we have tough conversations, I'm constantly asking, you know, I'm thinking, I'm asking myself, okay, did I handle that well? Could I have handled that differently? Did I handle that? Is that in alignment with the person that I wanna be, with the leader that I wanna be? You know, what could I have done differently? So, and then I talked to my team about it. And I'll say, you know, how did, how did that go? Hey guys, I think I missed the mark. ⁓ you know, I think I realized something about the way I communicate. I tell them all the time, challenge me. I want you to question me. ⁓ and that's really not how I operated when I was younger. Back then, I really thought that being a good leader was, it meant having all the answers. And now, now I know it means that you need to ask better questions and especially of myself even. Leslie Youngblood (19:30) Mmm. Mmm... Hmm. Yeah. Virginia Puccio (19:44) So I really, don't try to pretend I'm perfect. ⁓ I just, need to keep evolving. ⁓ I totally just, I completely stay transparent. And I just, I think I invite my team to grow with me now. Leslie Youngblood (19:57) Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's wonderful. And I think that's so important. We just said that you thought you needed all the answers. You had all the answers. But then you realized nobody has the answers, right? Like even these big time players in like this, what, you know, whether you're a celebrity or whether you're just a regular job or ⁓ running a multi-billion dollar company or you're just doing a startup, like nobody has the answers. Like staying curious, staying open, recognizing that and asking questions. telling people to challenge you is how you go from A to Z, right? Like very slowly. You're not going to become what you, you know, that leader that you envision for yourself overnight or that knowledge heavy person overnight. It's all about the experiences and having that team around you. And I think what you said was so ⁓ interesting to Virginia, the difference between a manager and a leader and how you can be a great leader and like consider yourself not a great manager. And I think that as women sometimes we can know we can feel I'm a great leader or I don't want to be a manager or or I'm not a great manager, but it doesn't mean you can't run your own company and start your own company and have an incredibly successful, important company. So can you talk to that a little bit to just about that difference a little bit more? Because I think that's so interesting and important for women to hear. Virginia Puccio (21:09) Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's funny because when I was younger, I would hear people say, you know, a manager's not necessarily a leader and a leader is not necessarily a manager. And I didn't understand the difference. I truly didn't understand the difference. I was a manager at the time and, you know, in my younger years and I thought, I lead people. I'm also a leader. I'm a manager and a leader. And I mean, I heard it over and over again. I read about it. I just didn't realize that they're so different. And I think... Leslie Youngblood (21:25) Mmm. Virginia Puccio (21:44) you know i i don't have you know the definition of leader and manager in front of me and people might review quite about to say but i think leaders really are there they get up and they have big ideas they have visions they can inspire people they can rally people they ⁓ they can execute really well ⁓ they can you know kind of pull people up and go we're gonna keep going you know either get get on the bus i'm gonna slow down and you gotta get on and then they were going for this wild ride or get on my back and I'll carry you for a little while and we'll do this. And that's leadership. But I think it's very different from management, which is more of like being ⁓ very close to ⁓ your people and being able to sort of like slow down. think management has to really slow down to stop and like, okay, what is it that you need as an individual? And then what is it that you need as an individual? So all of those people who are part of your ⁓ constituency as a manager, you have to be able to tap in to each of them and their own individual needs and their own styles. And I'm not very good at that. And there are so many people I have, I make sure that all the people who work for me, including like my co-founder, like I mentioned, they're all great managers because I know that I'm not. So I wanna make sure that they are so that they can Leslie Youngblood (22:42) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (23:10) ⁓ really tap into what each of the people that's working for them needs. Because I just don't have a strong ability to do that. And I'm continuing to learn and I think I'll get better and better, especially when I check myself. But ⁓ I find myself apologizing a lot. I think that's the difference between leadership and management for me. Leslie Youngblood (23:15) Mm-hmm. course. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I love that. think that's such a fantastic insight and that everybody has their strengths, right, and leans into different things. And you need both to have a successful business, right? And I love that you have your co-founder and they balance you out, right? It's the yin and the yang. You go farther together. And so you need to have both. And you can be full of great ideas, but they need somebody to execute. we might, like, right, we all have our strengths and our lesser strengths, right? ⁓ But to be willing to learn and evolve, right? I think that's key in the best leader. So I love that. And ⁓ now I want to ask you, Virginia, building a startup as a woman in AI, of course, has its challenges. What's a moment you nearly gave up and what kept you going? Virginia Puccio (24:24) Okay, so I have to say, ⁓ I've not once ever thought about quitting. ⁓ I just haven't, but that doesn't mean there haven't been challenges. And I'll tell you, one of the tough things I think that's been challenging ⁓ for us is that, after two years, are still, all of our employees don't get salaries. They are equity only. And when someone first joins, Leslie Youngblood (24:30) Love it. Hmm. Mmm. Virginia Puccio (24:50) They have a lot of passion, they're super excited. They're, you know, from the jump, they're off to the races. They're like, let's do this. And they're moving full steam ahead. But that steam runs out much more quickly when you're not getting a paycheck every couple of weeks or on a regular schedule than you would be if you were getting a paycheck for something. I've definitely seen that. So ⁓ continuing to motivate people has been really, ⁓ you know, a challenge. Leslie Youngblood (25:04) Mm-hmm. ⁓ Sure. Yeah. Virginia Puccio (25:17) ⁓ continuing to motivate them over and over and over again. ⁓ I mean, we're in two years, we're up to 13 people in the US. ⁓ Yeah, and, and none of us, you know, are on salary. And so we're all equity only. And so that's, it's a little tough, you know, to keep motivating people, but never thought about giving up. ⁓ It's more just about, okay, how do I continue to motivate those people? How do I continue to help in Leslie Youngblood (25:27) Wow, it's amazing. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (25:46) inspire them or to help them find their own inspiration and their own motivation because it has to keep coming from within as well. ⁓ And so and it's also about hiring the right people and making sure that they can generate their own motivation and their own inspiration. ⁓ So yeah, that's I think that's been a challenge. Leslie Youngblood (25:50) Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Yeah, well, I think that's because you're a great leader. find, you keep trying to find, you write that motivation and inspire them. And I think that is the perfect segue to my next question, which is not so much business focused, but we mentioned with your intro, you're a former rugby player, soccer player, soccer coach, you're deeply involved in community mentorship. How do those community ties shape the way that you lead in tech? Virginia Puccio (26:29) Yeah. Yeah. So ⁓ I do, manage both a women's team and then a couple of co-ed teams, soccer teams, both all soccer right now. And, ⁓ and, know, they couldn't be more different. And I'll tell you a little bit about, about the, ⁓ women's team first. ⁓ So, well, first, let me give you a little context. I come from a project management background. So organizing things, Leslie Youngblood (26:36) Yeah. Virginia Puccio (26:54) coordinating logistics, ⁓ preparing for every possible scenario, that's in my blood. I've just always kind of been that way. ⁓ And I joined my women's team about 15 years ago. Back then we were in the third division of our league and we were just out there playing, having fun. ⁓ then managers usually stay for a few years and then they kind of move on. ⁓ They either have other things going on in their lives or they're aging out. ⁓ And so they just kind of move on. so ⁓ over those 15, more than 15 years, we've had a few different managers. And the one right before me told me, okay, I'm stepping down and I'd love for, I think you would be a good person to take over. And so I said, all right, know, cause she knew I was managing other teams as well. So I said, okay, I'll take over. ⁓ And by that time we had moved into the second division. So. Leslie Youngblood (27:23) Mm-hmm. Woo. Virginia Puccio (27:50) Yeah, and so the first couple of years I managed, we teetered between the first and second divisions. You know, my team kind of went back and forth, back and forth, and we were flip-flopping so much that it was hard for us to kind of get a handle on, you know, what sort of how we should come out and play. So I just I thought, OK, this isn't my team, it's our team. So I took a poll and I just asked the ladies, do you guys want to stay in the second division or do you want to move up firmly into the first division? Leslie Youngblood (28:07) Mmm. Virginia Puccio (28:20) And everybody who responded, they said, Virg, we don't just want to go up to the first division, we want to win it. And I was like, ⁓ OK, let's go then. So I said, I got to manage this a certain way then. If they want to go all the way to the top, then I've got to, you know, I know I've got to manage this in a different way. So I started managing to that. And I'll tell you after about that was probably two or three years ago. Leslie Youngblood (28:27) Ooh, you asked. Ooh! Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's a different, Mmm. Virginia Puccio (28:47) The last three seasons, we've placed first in the division. ⁓ This last season, we just ended our spring season. ⁓ We ⁓ came, not only did we place first, we scored 57 goals in 10 games. We only conceded five goals. the other teams only scored, yes, five goals. We had five shutouts. ⁓ The five games we did get scored against, Leslie Youngblood (28:50) Amazing. Whoa! Bang! Wow, 57 to five? Crazy. Wow. Virginia Puccio (29:17) there was one goal per game. ⁓ I mean, we didn't just win it, we dominated. ⁓ And everyone's out there having a great time. We're not known as, you know, the team that we're not chippy, we're not bitchy, we're not, you know, we're physical, but we don't, you know, we're dirty or anything like that. ⁓ Great sportsmanship on our team. ⁓ And then if you contrast that with my Leslie Youngblood (29:19) Hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Virginia Puccio (29:45) co-ed team, one of my co-ed teams, ⁓ they, you we haven't, I think we win about 10 % of our matches in the last two years, but they keep coming out and I can, every single time they come out, every night they come out, I know they're, we're all thinking the same thing. Maybe tonight, tonight, we're going to get a win. Maybe tonight. And they go out there, they play hard, but really it's about, you know, with those two different teams, the contrast is, Leslie Youngblood (29:57) Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Virginia Puccio (30:14) Do you want to be really successful and you want to go for it all and you want to get the championship? Or is it about belonging and being in your group of community and doing something you love and just doing it for the love of it, no matter the outcome? And I pulled that sort of, think, into leadership and again, management and knowing that each individual is looking for something different. They approach things differently and, you know, how Leslie Youngblood (30:23) Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Virginia Puccio (30:45) That's sort of how I can pull that into my leadership ⁓ style and into my leadership activity. Leslie Youngblood (30:50) Yeah. I love that. Well, and I think that just so speaks to the importance of the mental game. right? Well, sports is so mental. And I always lament like, man, I wish I knew what a mental game sports was back when I was an athlete in high school, right? Because I just thought it was, you know, making baskets or whatever. But there's so much of the mental game that goes into it. And how do you bounce back from a bad play, a bad game, you know, all the things. What is that goal? Like, where do you want to go? Where do you want this team to be? Right? Like, do you want this team to be at the top? and winning the divisions and winning the championships or you're just here to have a good time because that changes one, like you said, how you're led and two, how you show up as one of those players. And I think it translates so on point to business and how businesses run. Like, are you joining the business and as a leader, are you there? That's like, this is the A team. Like, yes, we're going to rule the world or write like, we're doing this to make a difference. Right. And there's one is not better than the other. It's they're they're both valid and they're both needed and important, but having that sets the tone for the group too. And I think that's so interesting. And I think of course that is what you do, right? Like outside of work. And of course that enables you to be a better leader and to drive fuel AI for the way that you have and coming from the background and the tech space that you have. So I just think that's just so cool. I just love it so much. And ⁓ I've often talked about, I think it was a conversation with a friend of mine. He was a former NFL, player, but we are talking about how athletes make good business people after they age out of sports. And it's because they are mentally conditioned to not, like what would say like wallow in a ⁓ loss and to know that like, I may have lost the game, but I'm going to win the division. We're going to bounce back even stronger. And so do you feel like that sports background too, like comes into play for you on a daily basis with work? Yeah. Virginia Puccio (32:25) Well, absolutely. 100%. And Leslie, might, I don't know if you know, EY did a study, a research study back in, I want to say 2016, and they found that 94 % of women in the C-suite played sports. Yes, they still play or they did play sports. Absolutely. And especially team sports. mean, you know, it's kind of like a boot camp for the boardroom. Leslie Youngblood (33:02) No way! I love it! It makes so much sense! I love it. I love it. Yeah. Virginia Puccio (33:15) because it teaches you camaraderie and persistence. You have to take a loss and go back out. You get beat up sometimes. You've got to figure out how to work with people that you may not necessarily like on your team. There's just so much that I think translates from the field to the boardroom, to business. Leslie Youngblood (33:15) Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So true. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I completely agree. And we have three kids and I wouldn't say any of them are going to be professional athletes, but we want them to do it for the camaraderie, for the working together, for the showing up, you know, consistently, even when you don't want to, or even when you know you're going to lose, because those are life skills, right? And that's the fun part of sports. And we see a lot of parents that are very Virginia Puccio (33:47) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (34:04) they think their kids, you know, they're going to be the next big thing. And that's great. I hope that their kid is the next big thing. But for me, it's like, if that is an offshoot of what we're trying to accomplish here, like amazing, but sports, do agree with you so wholeheartedly that it's so important to me to expose my kids to that. And so they, get that experience in that ⁓ emotional, ⁓ like not training, but like that emotional, like base. Virginia Puccio (34:10) Okay. Leslie Youngblood (34:34) Right? They love working with people and from all that you don't know and you have to make it work. So I just love that. And I've never heard that stat before that 94 % of C-suite women played sports. I love it so much. That's amazing. Now, Virginia, in the AI space, speed and scale are everything. How do you make sure you're not losing sight of ethical considerations in that race? Virginia Puccio (34:34) Yeah. Yeah, so I mentioned a little bit before that transparency is everything. So when you're asking people to share something that's as personal and valuable as their own data, you really have to be clear. You have to be honest. You have to be respectful of them ⁓ from the very first interaction. And ⁓ so we've embedded, you know, trust and accountability into pretty much every layer of our process. ⁓ And, ⁓ you know, as I mentioned, like one way that we do that is letting people know about what their data is gonna be used for, about how much they're gonna get paid for it. And then the other thing we've done is ⁓ we've also backed that up with some infrastructure. So we partnered with ⁓ New Money Company. ⁓ They are a YC, a Y Combinator ⁓ company. Yeah, they were in maybe three years ago. Leslie Youngblood (35:52) Mm-hmm. Sure. Virginia Puccio (35:56) ⁓ and they handle our KYC, which is know your customer process. so every bounty hunter who joins the platform is screened through a new money company against nearly a thousand ⁓ known personal lists, known persons lists. And ⁓ that ensures that they're not affiliated with some sort of criminal or unethical activity. Leslie Youngblood (36:22) you Virginia Puccio (36:22) And that's how we maintain like the safe and secure and very ethical community for everyone from day one. So, ⁓ you know, we're not just, you know, building a product that like uses people, we're trying to build one that includes them and that again, that honors their humanity. Leslie Youngblood (36:28) Yeah. in here. ⁓ Yeah, I love that you said that it includes them. It doesn't use them. I think that's like such a simple yet such an important designation. Now, Virginia, Fuel.ai is an amazing way that everyday people can contribute and participate in shaping AI and not just be subject to it. What are some other ways that people can participate in the shaping of AI? Virginia Puccio (37:04) ⁓ So I would say, ⁓ you know, by owning their data and being able to get paid for it, by refusing to be a product and becoming a participant instead, ⁓ you know, ⁓ we're basically creating this new role in the ecosystem. ⁓ I mean, one of the things that we're actually going to be doing, we haven't put this into play yet, but we're going to be doing this very soon, ⁓ is we're going to be offering our ⁓ ⁓ a data collection certification. that if people can show that they have this certification, they can put it on their LinkedIn profile, and then that will give them the opportunity to go out and to collect data, ⁓ maybe through other sources as well. ⁓ And they can also look at annotating data. ⁓ that's labeling data. There are a lot of platforms out there that do this kind of thing. There aren't very many platforms that do what we do, but there are a lot of platforms where they can go and join and annotate data. I think, ⁓ and then I really just, encourage people to start using AI because ⁓ the more that you use it, the more that they learn about Leslie Youngblood (38:20) Mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (38:27) when I say they, the people who are building AI, will learn about habits and behaviors and what it is that we need as humans, what we need AI for. And ⁓ then, you know, that will help get people ⁓ really involved in the process. So ⁓ I would say those are the sort of the ways is through collection, through any sort of like labeling platforms, and then just start using it, just start seeing what it's about. Leslie Youngblood (38:29) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Outside of chat GPT, what is another way that people can use AI and start using it? Virginia Puccio (39:02) Well, the nice thing is it's relatively inexpensive. mean, ChatGPT is, you can use the free version. You can get a lot of information. But ⁓ if you're not already asking, you know, talking to ChatGPT, ⁓ it's starting to get a, you know, a full memory of who you are. People can ask it, hey, these are my, you know, ⁓ my skill sets. This is what I know how to do. How can I make extra money? You know, what kinds of things can I do to make money? Leslie Youngblood (39:09) Mm-hmm. Yes. Virginia Puccio (39:31) And then there are a few others that you can use. Like if you have a good idea for something, but you're not a software engineer, which I'm not either, there's a company called Replet where, have you heard of it? Yeah. It's really cool. It's really cool. you can, it's relatively inexpensive. I think it's like $25 a month. Leslie Youngblood (39:42) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes! Reveille! I have heard of it. I've explored it a little bit. I'm like, this is crazy. Mm-hmm. Virginia Puccio (39:58) ⁓ and you get a certain amount of credits in those $25, but you can build an application from scratch using Reply. And you can build your own app, whatever you can conceive. Now, if it's really complex, it might have a tough time with that. But if it's not super complex, you have to learn to prompt it. I have played with it a little bit. Again, I'm not an engineer. It did get stuck a few times. I had to go in and I don't know how to review code. Leslie Youngblood (40:05) Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Virginia Puccio (40:29) But as I refine my prompting, then I can kind of get it to pinpoint and detail for it what I need it to do, and it will perform better. So. Leslie Youngblood (40:32) Right. Yeah. Could you go to chat GPT and be like, I want to build an app like this and I need all the prompts to make it happen. Would it give you the right prompts to do that? Like, when it prompts itself, really? Virginia Puccio (40:51) It would. In fact, I did that before I went into Replet. I did. But the problem was it not only did it give me prompts, it gave me a lot of code and it gave me a lot of stuff that I couldn't understand. So I was like, should I? Because I don't even know what this says. Yeah, so I didn't I didn't do it that way because it was treating me like I was an engineer. Leslie Youngblood (41:05) Wow. Yeah, like I don't really get this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah Virginia Puccio (41:20) And so maybe if I went back and told Chachi BT, OK, this is great, except that you've treated me like I know how to read this and I don't. you know, maybe you can help me. Right. I mean, it'd be fairly similar, I think, to prompt Chachi BT or to prompt Replet in similarly. You're going to have to prompt them similarly. So it's just about refining your prompts and learning how to do that. Leslie Youngblood (41:23) Yeah. Yeah. Right. Start over. Yeah. That's, yeah. Yeah. Sure. Right. Yeah, and I think like with Replet, so I've just poked around a tiny bit. I think they talked about it on Diary of a CEO where recently where they had some AI guys and had to a two hour episode on AI, AI agents. But like think of a possibility that people that don't know code, that don't know tech. but can just go to this platform and be like, wanna create a family app and it does silly things for like their family or like, right? It doesn't have to be like for a business. Like you can just do it for whatever your imagination thinks, right? And it's available to you, right? Like kind of like in a way how Canva was a total game changer for the world of design and right? And really simplified. I'm not a designer. don't know illustrator. I don't know Photoshop, but it was like, ⁓ you don't need to. We're gonna make it super simple for you. Virginia Puccio (42:12) Next. Anything. Right? Yes. Leslie Youngblood (42:38) Just think about like that. is, I mean, it's just crazy. The possibilities at our fingertips right now and where we're headed. just, it's just mind blowing to me about it. Virginia Puccio (42:45) Yes. I totally agree. think Replet's really early, but I think it's going to be similar to Canva and eventually that it'll just be super user friendly, really easy to use and really easy to get what you want out of it. Leslie Youngblood (42:55) Yes. Oh, everybody listening, go and explore Replet and be at the forefront of it, right? That's our marching order after here, Virginia. We gotta go play with Replet and circle back with each other. Now, I would love to know too, Virginia, the application of Fuel AI, you're doing so much, you're changing the game. What is one moment where you thought, yes, this is exactly why I built it? Virginia Puccio (43:05) Yes, that was my wing. Yeah. Yeah, so our users, our bounty hunters are incredibly diverse. We have students, have, you know, they're gig workers, we have stay at home parents, we have people who are retired, and we even have some people who are unhoused. And a lot of folks don't realize this, but many people who are unhoused have smartphones. And, but what they often don't have is a way to make money. Leslie Youngblood (43:39) Yeah! Mmm! Mmm! What? Virginia Puccio (43:53) that works with the challenges of their situations. It's really hard for them to have a traditional nine to five job. It's almost nearly impossible for them to do that without having a stable place to live. And so we offer something different, which is that it's flexible, it's accessible, and it's really fast. So when someone who's unhoused, they can earn money just by contributing the photos or videos. Leslie Youngblood (43:58) Right. Right. Mm. Virginia Puccio (44:23) They can use their smartphone to do that. ⁓ And then when they have, maybe they don't wanna use their data to upload, but they can go to a coffee shop or a public library and use that free wifi, upload the data, and then we pay very quickly, usually at the end of each week. We're paying once a week, depending on the project. And ⁓ we do support Cash App in the US. And with Cash App, they don't even have to have a bank account to get paid. Leslie Youngblood (44:32) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow, that's great, because that is a challenge for unhoused persons, for sure. Virginia Puccio (44:55) Absolutely. Yep. Yep. So we're really giving people agency. ⁓ We're creating this new economic, you know, these opportunities for folks who've historically just been left out. They've been overlooked and ⁓ we're doing it in a way that's respectful. ⁓ We're empowering them. You know, it's rooted in dignity. And I would say that's definitely one of the things I'm most proud of. Leslie Youngblood (44:59) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's wonderful. Like you said, it's including, right? Not just using them and that you're able to include everybody with this. And I think that's so important and necessary and everything as much as we can do in all the things. So ⁓ now, Virginia, what advice do you have for the next generation of women entering tech who feel like maybe they don't belong in the room or know they're in a really interesting time and space to be entering into tech? Virginia Puccio (45:48) Yeah, I mean, I would say the room isn't sacred. You are. So I feel like if you walk into a place and you feel out of place, that's not a sign that you don't belong. It's potentially a sign that the room needs to change. So again, I would say just be unapologetically yourself, ⁓ even if they tell you not to be. Leslie Youngblood (45:52) Mmm. Mmm. Ooh, ⁓ yes. Virginia Puccio (46:13) Be really authentic, show up with your full voice, your full story, your full truth. ⁓ I think the industry needs your perspective, it needs your energy and your experience. Don't wait until you have the right credentials. I think that's another thing. As women, try to kind of wait for the, it's not perfect yet. We don't have the perfect credentials, we don't have the perfect timing, we don't have the perfect plan. ⁓ We just need to lead anyway. We need to speak up anyway and take up space anyway. ⁓ know, leadership doesn't have to look like everybody else's. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be quiet or palatable. It's yours. It's just, you know, it's just yours. And I would say, find your people. Build real relationships, you know, with ⁓ folks who can lift you up and challenge you to keep growing. Leslie Youngblood (46:59) Mm. Virginia Puccio (47:07) ⁓ you know, let your team challenge you. ⁓ and, and there are a lot of us who are already here who are going to welcome you in and sort of remind you that you belong. Leslie Youngblood (47:21) Yeah, I love that. I want to get this tattooed. The room isn't sacred. You are. That is so powerful and so true, Virginia. I've never heard that before, but I don't think I could have heard more truer words recently than that. And I feel like that's like a perfect place to wrap up with before we leave. I would love for you to share where everyone can. find you whether it's on LinkedIn and Fuel AI as well. Virginia Puccio (47:51) Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn. You can find Fuel.ai on LinkedIn. Fuel.ai, have a, ⁓ we're at gofuel.ai is our website. ⁓ We are on YouTube, we're on TikTok, we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook. I've got a great social media team. ⁓ We're, yeah, you can find us. That's how you can find us and that's where you can find me. So. Leslie Youngblood (48:17) So yeah, make sure you all connect with Virginia follow and even sign up to be a bounty hunter I'm gonna I'm going to go sign up and be a bounty hunter now. I want to be involved in this I want to learn more and in and like you said like be a part of it and not just be a consumer but like a producer in that way and it's It's not hard. It's not hard. It's just doing all the normal things that you're doing. And so What an incredible conversation Virginia what an incredible product incredible person you are Virginia Puccio (48:24) Okay. Leslie Youngblood (48:45) Thank you so, much for joining us today. I can't wait to follow along and see the amazing things you continue to create. Virginia Puccio (48:48) Thank you. Thank you, Leslie. This has been really fun. Leslie Youngblood (48:55) Thanks, have a great day. We'll talk soon. Bye. Virginia Puccio (48:57) You too. Thanks. Bye bye.