Latest / Big Swing Podcast / Big Swing: The One Who Knocks (on the Courthouse Door) with Ben Heinzelmann | Episode 5

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Big Swing: The One Who Knocks (on the Courthouse Door) with Ben Heinzelmann | Episode 5 · Big Swing Podcast

• FUNK (00:02.464) Alright big swing episode 5 I think We got Corey Scott checking in from Universal Studios in Disney What a stud I What a stud though, I'm like Corey, you know, you're on spring break You can you can go take your time be with your fans said no. No, we got to do this man. I'm having too much fun podcasting So I love that energy Corey Scott (00:13.084) You gotta do it for the kids, man. You gotta do it for the kids. Kids' spring break. Corey Scott (00:27.196) Man, it's all the, this is obviously fun. It's the easy, easy part for everything. But you know, with kids being eight and 11, trying to soak up that time and I don't really know who's having more fun, me or the kids. There was a couple of rides where I was like, if y'all aren't doing this, I'm going solo. You're going to have to wait. I'm not passing this up. So yeah, got it in heading back home later today, but I want to make sure we get the podcast in my man. FUNK (00:54.596) Well, it's, you know, we're dealing with like, you know, startup schedules, right? Corey, like you're doing your, your taught in AP thing. got funk futures. You know, Ben's got energy domain. They're blowing and going saw them with a nice booth at NAPE So balancing and even just finding time to do this is hard. So I appreciate you making the time, despite the fact that you're a universal, we're going to the Broadmoor next week, which I'm psyched about. Never stayed there. I know you have Corey, but Ben, you ever been to the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs? Ben Heinzelmann (01:24.142) Then all you rich guys talking about your expensive vacations. I'm going to, I'm going to the lake. You follow next week, uh, for three or four days and got a little cabin. So, uh, no, we, we've, uh, we've sponsored the, uh, the Rocky mountain summit deal the last couple of years, but that's, that's always started. Um, or it's been that I guess the first week of school for my kids. FUNK (01:26.734) Hahaha Ben Heinzelmann (01:48.854) And more importantly, that's my wife's first week as well, because she teaches at my kid's school. So I prefer to stay married. And so I've not been able to go to that event at the Broadmoor each year. I usually send a couple of our guys, but I've heard it's amazing. Corey Scott (02:04.527) The marriage continuation program is key and I think you're doing a good job to continue it. FUNK (02:04.548) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (02:07.414) That is key. It is key. I prefer to keep it that way, for sure. FUNK (02:11.82) It doesn't matter how much your company is worth if you have to give half of it away. So I think all of us are on the same page with, you know, trying to maintain our steady marriages and the support that we get because we need that really with the with what it takes to maintain, you know, an early stage business like you follow. Is that in Alabama? Where is that? Ben Heinzelmann (02:31.542) No, that's, it's like an hour and a half west of Tulsa or an hour west of Tulsa, southwest of Tulsa. FUNK (02:37.038) got it. So you follow there is a place in Alabama called you follow I was in a program my junior year high school for like high achieving you know students or whatever in Washington DC and it was kids from all over the country and they put you in rooms like randomly it was like you share a bed with another there's like four dudes in a room and two of the dudes that I was with were from you follow Alabama. Ben Heinzelmann (02:44.012) Okay. FUNK (03:03.684) It was fun, man. I'm talking about like real southern guys. I'm such a Yankee man. I'm from the Northeast I'm from New England and These guys just so much personality so much fun and we traded like high school football t-shirts I gave him a Plymouth high football shirt. He gave me a you follow football shirt So you're bringing me back man just by saying one word you had no idea would do that But it did but you'll have a good time on the lake. Anyways, we got Ben Heinzelman the one who knocks on the courthouse door Ben Heinzelmann (03:21.848) I love it. FUNK (03:33.454) Hansenberg. Ben Heinzelmann (03:34.072) Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Corey Scott (03:34.636) Ish? FUNK (03:36.878) That was bad. Anyways, Ben, I'll hit you with the hardest question first. The most important question is, who are you, man? Who is Ben Heinselman? Ben Heinzelmann (03:44.238) Yeah, great question. Well, I can kind of start from the beginning if that makes sense. from Fort Worth, ended up going to University of Oklahoma, which is kind of where all the Oklahoma ties come from. And I went through the petroleum land management program at OU. what's kind of funny about that is I was originally business undecided. I've got some roots in the only gas business. Kind of a cool story. My great grandfather was a wildcatter in Scurry County. And so my grandfather was born in Snyder and always was talking about the oil and gas business. you know, so I had some level of interest in it. I didn't really know what that was going to look like long-term. And, you know, I was in a fraternity up at OU and some of our, some of my older buddies were getting these, you know, amazing internships where they're paying them, 30, $35 an hour. And I thought that sounded pretty good. So I ended up ended up getting into energy management or petroleum land management. And, you know, obviously wanted to come back to, to Fort Worth to start a family here. We're, typically meeting anybody from Fort Worth where we typically are pretty big home bodies. But wanted to come back here and unfortunately, you know, the Barnett had just completely cratered right as I was graduating, think gas had dropped from 16 and M down to, you know, a dollar 80. So there were. zero in-house land jobs. so I initially worked for a broker here in the Barnett, just rounding out some units for Chesapeake and ended up working for a small operator out of Breckenridge, Texas. And then that's when I met my current partner, Ryan Vinson, and we started Mineralware. that's kind of, I'm sure we'll get into all that. That's kind of how I started, how we started Mineralware initially and ultimately into energy domain. FUNK (05:39.855) Yeah, so you and Corey have known each other for a while. What's your history, Corey? And for what it's worth, there was Mineral Soft, there's Mineral Wear, there's Mineral with a one in it. Corey was like, I don't know, I was talking to, what was it, Cidio or somebody like that. I'm like, they're looking for a mineral product, right? This is a royalty company. And you're like, man, I really like the Mineral Wear guys. You go, okay. All right, tell me about them. So talk about your history a little bit, Corey. When'd you guys... When did your paths cross to you? Corey Scott (06:11.334) Yeah, Ben, I want to say it was 2016, 2017 timeframe, somewhere in there. And you guys were, you know, building and launching mineralware at the time and obviously a big component to the mineral space and that type of software and application. While it does a number of things, the revenue check detail is a pretty integral part and important piece to that overall puzzle. Ben Heinzelmann (06:17.454) Yeah. Yeah. Corey Scott (06:40.604) So when we were with Energy Link and obviously having a lot of operators hosting their check detail, Ryan and Ben, you know, reached out knowing that they had a number of clients as their business grew, that volume was going to grow. But what I always appreciated, not that you know, Ben and I are kind of in the same age bracket and we see eye to eye and a lot of, you know, just personal things together. Also the work side, it's just how Ryan and Ben. approach business and approach partners. We thought they were really doing it the right way. We really enjoyed working those guys and obviously we've stayed connected since then as they've kind of grown and done other things. But that's where it all started. And I think just how they were approaching the market was something special that obviously carried through with how they were running their business, but also for their clients. They saw that firsthand. Ben Heinzelmann (07:28.782) Yeah, we, I remember we spent a week with those guys up in Calgary during during a stampede, which is a, that was a, that was a big time. That was also right when my daughter was born. So she was like a newborn. It was a good time to kind of get away for a week and pretend like I was in college again for a few days. But I've got a picture of Corey with his pants, with, with his pants at his ankles, cause he didn't hit it past the ladies tees off the tee box. Corey Scott (07:39.408) Yeah. Corey Scott (07:51.984) Hahaha. Corey Scott (07:59.727) You had to go there, didn't you, man? You had to go there. We are not gonna hold that up to the camera, but you can talk to it. Well, you already brought it online, but yeah. FUNK (07:59.812) i love it Ben Heinzelmann (08:01.258) We can keep that offline. FUNK (08:08.228) It's good. Ben Heinzelmann (08:10.094) Well, I'll keep the picture offline. How about that? Corey Scott (08:14.298) There we go. There we go. FUNK (08:14.692) I don't know. I kind of want this picture. It feels like a good thumbnail for this clip. you know, so you have a family, right? You're married. How many kids do you have, Ben? And really, the impetus for asking that is like, this is now what? Your second startup where you're going full force into it, you know, with a tech product. How are you balancing? And your wife's a teacher. She works. You my wife's in the... Corey Scott (08:18.48) Now you have. Ben Heinzelmann (08:19.63) You Ben Heinzelmann (08:35.149) Mm-hmm. FUNK (08:42.052) social worker world, so not too dissimilar, Cory's wife works. How do you balance? How do you find time for the family while I'm assuming you're working around the clock and certainly you're never shutting off mentally when you're building something and constantly in growth mode? So how do you find balance and actually prioritize family when you can? Ben Heinzelmann (08:46.36) Mm-hmm. Ben Heinzelmann (09:02.638) Man, I've done a lot of introspection on that over the last 10 years. know, what was great about when we started Mineralware, the reason why I even jumped over, like I'm just a masochist by nature, I think, and pretty big risk taker. But, you know, I had a good job, you know, at a smaller operating company, which is everything that I always wanted. You know, I wanted to be an in-house land man. I learned everything from, you know, indexing. indexing title, like running title, buying leases, doing the surface work, all that stuff. And ultimately I realized it just didn't really suit my, my desires that much. It just didn't really scratch the itch for me. And, so fortunately I was in a spot. I had just gotten married. I got married young at 24 years old and I've always been kind of an old soul like that, but got married when I was 24. And then I jumped over with Ryan when I was 24. So I didn't have any kids at the time. It was, was a pretty good time to take a risk. And I'm really glad that I, you know, that Ryan didn't tell me at the time that we had like $20,000 in our bank account. Um, but I mean, that was, you would talk about a grind. mean, I just bought my first house. Um, and, uh, I remember, you know, I originally started just on a, again, we had like 20 grand in the bank account. think I started on like a day rate, you know? And so drop from at one point working five days a week to four days a week, you know, drop the. drop the day rate as well, just to make things work. Once 2015 hit, right, because everybody was trying to figure out what the hell was going on in the industry. We're trying to protect our cash. And that was a really challenging time, but also I didn't have a huge family to support yet. But I would say that as we continue to grow and we can get into the deep side of this, but I think it is so critical as you build a startup that you have a supportive spouse that understands. what you're Cause ultimately, I'll tell anybody who will listen that Annie is, she's basically like my personal, she's like been my therapist over the last 10 years. You know, as you can appreciate, it's like you have these pretty deep conversations at night. You know, they have to understand, you know, they have to understand the risk, right? And, and if they're not willing to ride it out with you, no matter what happens, then it's really hard to take that piece into the workplace, you know? And I think I'm very, very fortunate. Ben Heinzelmann (11:20.982) on that side. as far as balancing, you know, as we've gotten more more busy, fortunately now, you know, I've got a pretty big team. I mean, we have 31 employees now, which takes a huge load off. You know, a few years ago, like I wouldn't, you know, we were going to do this podcast last week and I got invited to go play golf out of town for a couple of days. I would never have been able to do that two or three years ago. But I think it's really important to take that time and One of the things I tell all of our employees is, cause it's how I conduct my life as well as like at five o'clock I'm done as far as I'm not in the office because if I can't be efficient in an eight hour window, if I can't get what I want to get done in an eight hour window, I'm just not being efficient enough or we are not being efficient enough. Cause frankly, I'm never going to sacrifice that time with my kids, my family, especially as they're younger. mean, as you guys know, I that The time goes very, quickly. So it's really important to me, you know, to be involved with them. And, and obviously we're always, we're always really guilty of, I get bitched at all the time, you know, come home and I'm on my phone or whatever. you know, you'll check an email next thing know, you're just like randomly scrolling Twitter and you're like, what the hell are you doing? You know? but, but yeah, I'm still answering emails and that sort of thing late at night, right? But like, I'm not sitting there just burning the midnight oil because FUNK (12:40.056) Yeah, yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (12:48.888) Frankly, with what I do, it's definitely more BD sales focused, raising capital, that type of deal. I'm not going to be doing a lot of that at 10 PM at night. So I'm still monitoring Slack and all those things. We do a pretty good job of trying to integrate as much as we can so that I can get transparency throughout the organization without me just pinging people constantly and bothering people. So I think the rest of my team, Malcolm, others have done a really good job of providing that transparency. Corey Scott (13:20.494) Yeah, I think there's two things you said there that I can relate to. think others can, but if they're also kind of thinking about that next step, when you were young and you did that, right? think there's a bit of that, hey, there's that entrepreneurial kind of fire in me that I want to pursue. I'm doing this right now. It's a good job. It's a good paying job. but I can't sit here and just wonder what if, like I need to take that leap, but I'm also young that like in case it doesn't work out, you know that you can always fall back much easier to try to scratch that itch now versus waiting 30 years and trying to do that much later in life. And the second thing to that is, you know, just your view on, you know, family and all of that, which I know you've, you've done a really good job bringing that into your culture. So I'm sure that's really been a great, you know, tool with your employees. Ben Heinzelmann (13:51.182) I FUNK (13:51.204) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (13:59.725) Mm-hmm. Corey Scott (14:15.13) both from a hiring aspect, but also people staying with you guys longer tenured versus kind of this dynamic where people probably on average, I don't know the statistics, right? But you're probably hiring younger folks in general and people that can always look for something else after a couple of years, right? I think your retention rate of your employees has to be pretty high with this being one of those components. Ben Heinzelmann (14:39.278) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think we've only lost one employee over the last several years. But, you know, one of the things I tell, cause you brought up a good point, when we do hire, you know, for the not like, we don't have some mandate or anything. It just seems like younger folks just kind of gravitate towards what we're building here. And obviously with that comes younger families, right? So we understand that there's a, there's a huge strain on time for these folks. And, you know, we have got an employee now who's pregnant and expecting a baby here in the next few months. So one of the things that I've told everybody is like, look, if your daughter has a ballet recital, your son has a game, like do not miss that for some meeting or something, you know, like make sure that you're present because ultimately if our employees are disgruntled or they feel like they're not present with their families, that does end up kind of bleeding over into the work space, you know, to some capacity. FUNK (15:29.38) They'll leave, they'll get angry, and they'll start to have resentment toward you, toward Ryan, toward the company, and that shines through even if they want to try to hide it. Unless, of course, you want to skip your daughter's ballet recital, then by all means, go ahead and take the meeting and intentionally schedule it then. Ben Heinzelmann (15:37.934) Mm-hmm. Ben Heinzelmann (15:46.926) Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't miss any. mean, I don't, and I'm not sitting here on my pedestal saying I'm just a perfect dad. I've got a lot to work on, but I'm at least present. You know, one, one thing that I'm very, as I mentioned, you know, Annie teaches at the school where my kids go and, it'd be very easy for her just to take the kids each morning, but like, that's kind of my, my time with them. So she goes early, I take the kids every day to school, all the dads, it's a pretty cool community. mean, all the dads typically walk their kids in and that's my time with them. And I get to the office at about eight 30 each morning and I'm out by five, you know, cause I want to spend that, you know, you only have as you guys know, with young kids, like you only have, you know, that two hour period, you know, before about time bedtime, right? And then you can do whatever you want after that. But that's, that's how I. That's how I try to do it. And ultimately my mentality has been, that's not good enough, then that's fine. And, you know, I not to be all evangelistic, but I lean on my faith a lot on that side. Like my worldview is that, you know, if, if, if that's not going to be enough, then we'll find something else. And I think the Lord will take care of us and we'll figure it out from there. That's kind of, that's always been my mentality. FUNK (17:04.376) Yeah, I think that's super important. know, Corey, we don't talk a ton about faith on this. I'm Jewish, right? And you know, I think we have various different religions and religious beliefs and preferences. But I think that just in general, I do think faith is important. Because I think that it brings a little bit of perspective, right? Which, you've been able to gain, and maybe always had, in part to allow you to balance and see things from the grander view from a deeper level, a bigger perspective. want to go back to your first startup. So your first startup was actually a technology company. It was focused on the mineral space. What I've seen a lot of is people that build products in that particular world actually initially built it to manage their own assets. Ben Heinzelmann (17:35.372) Mm-hmm. FUNK (17:57.273) right, because they're like, I've kind of outgrown the spreadsheet to manage my own stuff. Did you decide to build mineral ware based off of managing your own stuff or you and Brian managing your own stuff? Or did you see a need in the market and the intention was always sort of like B2B, B2C to help other mineral owners manage their assets? Ben Heinzelmann (18:01.68) and Ben Heinzelmann (18:16.448) Yeah, it was always, initially it was B2C. So Ryan was managing the mineral management department at Bessemer Trust. That's how I met him initially when I was at the operating company, I called him to buy a lease and we just hit it off. He was building a house here in Fort Worth and it's a pretty small gas community here. And so he was kind of tired of driving to Dallas every day. He saw all of the, you know, the bank was using this kind of antiquated technology. There really wasn't anything. in the mineral space at the time that was solely focused on mineral and royalty management. There were several like EMP solutions that they had retrofit to fit minerals. It was just a different asset class entirely. And so we initially built mineral ware to target like these mom and pops, you know, out in the middle into, I'd never even seen their properties on a map, which is pretty, you know, these families are making millions of dollars a year in royalties and they even seen their properties on a map, which is just. Incredible. But yeah, we initially started B2C, you until we added all the bells and whistles that would allow us to kind of move up market and target that enterprise level, which I feel like we did pretty successfully. And we got to a point where we felt like we had saturated the market enough and, you know, it was just time to sell the business. We had just started Energy Domain, you know, to build a marketplace for upstream assets. And, you know, we I wouldn't say like spread thin. just like we had, you know, we had grown mineral wear over seven or eight year period and it was just time for the next thing. Learned a lot of lessons through that process. And SSNC came in and bought us out in 2022. And that's kind of the genesis of energy domain. Corey Scott (19:59.293) Ben, was energy domain, because I know there's a lot there and I'm to pack it here in just a little bit, was what energy domain focuses on today always on you and Ryan's mind when y'all started mineralware? Or was it really just mineralware and then as you grew mineralware, more conversations, more conversations with people, the idea of what you could do with what energy domain provides come or was it always there in the background from day one? Ben Heinzelmann (20:14.06) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (20:27.374) I'd say it's a little bit of both because when we started building mineral ware, you know, to map based products, we knew we had to figure out how we get well header and production data into the application. And we were approached by a couple other vendors, know, larger data providers that wanted to integrate their data into our solution. But we did have aspirations down the line to build other solutions that we knew you would need to leverage those data sets. And we didn't. You know, we didn't want to have to license it from anybody. And so we started building out our own well header data set production, that sort of thing, knowing that while it might not be on the initial roadmap, it would give us the flexibility to eventually build something. Um, and that, you know, that that's on the, on the well data side for energy domain data. Uh, but you know, on the marketplace side is a little different. Um, Ryan actually tried to, he, he built a company when he was like 25 called energy clearing house, which is, like an online, you know, it supposed to be kind of a competitor to energy net, if you will. So that was always in the back of his mind. But as we grew mineral ware at market, we had more of these like larger aggregating companies using it. They just kept providing us feedback like, Hey, we think you guys should build a more up-to-date marketplace. So all that kind of came together. We launched the marketplace first, and then we had this opportunity then, you know, as I was running sales for mineral ware, you know, I was, I did that basically solo for six years. So as y'all can appreciate, I was given demos all over the country and people just stopped me as I'm painting around on the map and say like, Hey, know, drilling info has gotten crazy expensive. Can we just have a simple map with simple filtering, you know, just pay you a commensurate rate for what we're getting. And we were positioned to be able to start building that because we had built this data set, you know, over a six to seven year period. FUNK (22:14.222) Yeah, think that... Go ahead, Corey. Corey Scott (22:14.586) Yeah, I mean, I think, well, I was just going say, think, I think that makes a lot of sense, right? Like just kind of the natural evolution of it. And when you start showing things to people, your brand starts taking off a little bit more. People see that you already have this capability. So it's natural for them to say, oh wait, I know this is a bit of a left turn, but what about this piece? Are you able to do that? Maybe not, but then you keep hearing that time and time again. You're like, okay, I think we're, we're onto something. It may not be in this particular platform, but yeah, let's start taking some real notes and see what comes, what comes next. Ben Heinzelmann (22:35.565) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (22:47.918) Yeah, I think one thing we've, if we've done anything well, it's that we really listen to our customers. And, um, fortunately, you know, we've kind of been in this niche, minerals and non-op space for now, you know, going on 12 years. And so we've, we've been able to collect a lot of feedback, both just data, you know, actual data, but also, you know, just anecdotally, right. And, um, so we really try to listen to these folks and what they actually want. I mean, we have enough, you know, industry. experience, expertise, whatever you want to call it, to get our products to 70 % of where they need to be. But ultimately, I think where a lot of companies go wrong is they just make a bunch of assumptions and they can overbuild or over engineer things. And they're not actually listening to what the customer wants, right? And that creates a lot of friction. FUNK (23:35.085) Here's one of things that I appreciate about you and your brand is, and I've been wrong before, but when I heard about the thesis of energy domain to really be public and be out there about we are going to compete with the behemoth, right? We're going after drilling info. We're going after Inveris in the data space. I thought you were crazy. Honestly, I was like, why? There's other products out there, right? People have tried this. People have failed. And you guys were steadfast in it and it's clearly working. So that to me, that that's a pretty big swing. Were there any concerns or were you like bottom line? We're doing this. We're going after it despite the headwinds that we may face and going up against what is a multibillion dollar company. Talk a little bit about that, because I give you a ton of credit just for going for it. Ben Heinzelmann (24:22.424) Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. I we're certainly not out of the woods by any stretch, but things look great right now. And you have to be a little crazy to do something like that. think there's no doubt we are a little crazy. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we've tried to be a little, I don't like just throwing brand names out there and that sort of thing. But, you know, we knew that, I mean, I've been in this space a long time. I've used all the products. FUNK (24:27.438) No doubt. Ben Heinzelmann (24:49.582) I felt like we were very uniquely positioned. knew how talented our team was. know, we, we were sort of started on second or third base because we had already built all these ETLs and data pipelines. And it, really kind of came down to, okay, like the use case for mineral ware is totally different, right? We didn't have directional surveys and landing zones and all those things, but we did a lot of the heavy lifting where we knew that if we really leaned in and convinced our investors of this path that we could take. by just curating the data set a little bit further, adding in some of those features that the enterprise customers were needing. We knew that if we could execute on the product side, we have the network side taken care of. We had the fortune of building a successful business with Mineralware and building an incredible network of people who trust us. They know that marginally, we know what we're doing. And so we knew if we could execute on the product side, we had the distribution. Right. And, and that's still playing out. You know, I think it's, still, we're still trying to build that trust. think we're getting there. but as you guys can appreciate in this space, it's not, it's not even so much about just mass marketing and blasting and all that it's, is really like getting involved intrinsically in some of these companies workflows. And once they get used to the product and they can vouch for you, that starts to just snowball from there. Right. Is there at happy hours in Midland or, know, wherever else, like they're they're kind of acting as little boots on the ground for us, right? And I think that's, we're really starting to see the fruits of that right now. Corey Scott (26:18.838) I think I mean that's sales 101 for all those right. mean getting those first few clients can be the hardest for a lot of people. I think you could maybe say that from the mineral side maybe a little easier on the domain side. because you already had that background of mineral ware and you built kind of that pipeline of contacts. So they were probably waiting in the wings to see and kind of give it a run. But like you said, once you have those people using it, now you have those third party stories, those customer success stories to really let them do the selling for you, right? Ben Heinzelmann (26:51.106) Yeah. Yeah. hundred percent. Yeah. mean, it's, you know, so Jeremy, to your point, I mean, yeah, I think, yeah, we're, think we're all just a little crazy, right? I think a lot of people had that, had that mindset, which is fine. You know, I try not to read too much, what's going on online. I mean, we, you know, we come in and we work our asses off every week. And, know, again, I think one thing that we've done a good job of, I suck at a lot of things. I think I'm, pretty good at bringing in talent. I mean, I am. I'll say this a million times, I'm by far the dumbest person at our company and that is by design. Our president, Malcolm Smith, I he ran the entire subsurface team, both completions and reservoir for EQT for six years. I mean, he's a complete brainiac. know, obviously we've, on the product side, we've hired some incredibly intelligent people. And the one thing that I feel like I do have a good grasp of is understanding again, like what the customers want. Cause I've been the end user. FUNK (27:34.02) guys Ben Heinzelmann (27:48.214) Right. At like the dumbest level. Right. So like, I, if I know how to use a product, then anybody else can. Right. And so I think that's where some of these companies go, go wrong is, is they just over engineer things and it just gets too complicated. So I can kind of speak to, know, Hey product guys, like they're coming up with all these crazy UI designs. When I say guys, let's, let's pare this down. You need dumb people like me to be able to go in and understand like what they're actually looking at. Right. FUNK (28:00.494) Yeah. Corey Scott (28:15.772) Well, it's a complex product. It's a complex product. got to you. think it's really smart to really approach it to where next thing you know, you build this feature, that feature. You can easily look within within any application, say, man, this is overwhelming. There's a lot of tools and icons. So being able to keep it very user friendly, knowing who your end users are is obviously smart to that. FUNK (28:15.938) I mean, yeah, man, yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (28:24.716) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (28:31.299) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (28:37.42) Well, yeah. And it's funny because like I get into demos and I'll show our data product and the general feedback is, man, this looks so simple. You know, you have this filter on the left side map table and it's like, it seems like this overly simplistic thing. And I'm like, if you only knew the hours that we spent on a whiteboard, like fine tuning every single field that shows, right. And where's every little button fall, right? Like where are the customer's eyes going? Like there is so much that goes into that. that I know that you guys can appreciate, the end user might not, right? Corey Scott (29:10.961) But you did it. FUNK (29:11.064) Yeah, I think that, so a couple of things here. One, and I always say this to my clients, right, at Funk Futures, we work with a lot of early stage tech companies. what I have to remind them the first time they show us the product is, hey, listen, like you're in this thing all the time. You see this product every single day. This is my first time seeing this. So I have no idea what I'm looking at, right? And it's really important for you to always remember that when you're showing it to somebody is like, what second nature to you are obvious to you is not to the person that you're showing it to. Right. So I think that the best presenters, the best sales engineers, the best founders, when they do demos, they're always constantly remembering that it's the first time that somebody has seen this product, despite the fact that you have biases built in from spending thousands of hours in the system. Secondarily, think the yeah, go ahead, Ben. Ben Heinzelmann (29:44.898) Right. Ben Heinzelmann (30:02.316) Right. Well, I'm. No, no, no, no, keep going. I have a thought once you're done. FUNK (30:07.716) I was gonna say secondarily, like complexity on the front end, sorry, complexity on the backend, simplicity on the front end. Like it's why Google has dominated for years and years and years. It's why email systems look the way that they do. It doesn't, it needs to be easy and for the dummy to be able to understand what they're looking at and be able to click through it. Whatever happens behind the scenes that the Brainiac tech guys build out, great. but that's not what needs to be reflected in the front. Go ahead. Ben Heinzelmann (30:39.989) No, yeah, I was just going to say one of the things that we did right before we launched energy domain data was we had about 20 pilots. So we had a, again, a bunch of customers that were very interested in moving away from Enveris and were willing to try us out and actually pay us for the products, you know, at discounted rate monthly. But that got 20 plus folks into the application. plugging away at it, providing us just a constant feedback loop, which is super, it's to your point, Jeremy is funny. Cause like, you'll get like really simple feedback. It's like, guys, how do I export production? And you're like, well, it's, know, we've been in the app a million times, right? We've ripped this thing apart and we're like, yeah, this actually isn't very intuitive, right? And, you need, you need that, that actual feedback from somebody that is just coming in cold, right? That has absolutely no context. And while we might think it makes sense. the customer doesn't. And ultimately that's all that matters, right? FUNK (31:40.079) Yeah, exactly. Talk a little bit about the delegation of responsibilities between you and Ryan. You've mentioned him now a few times. Clearly, you guys have a good working relationship. You guys know how to balance one another. I think it's hard to have partners, right? I've had people who are best friends of mine, we're business partners, and sometimes it can create a rift, right? Expectations are not aligned. How do you guys sort of split things up, and how have you been able to have this sort of like... unbelievable partnership with a co founder now multiple times. How do you guys do it? How do you split it up? How do you make it work so well? Ben Heinzelmann (32:17.23) Yeah. Well, to be clear, I Ryan's the founder, right? I mean, I've been there since the beginning. He, he plugged me in as CEO, but we, mean, Ryan and I have worked together now since 2014. I mean, he's, he's kind of like my big brother. I mean, we, you know, we're very close on the personal side as well. And he's been a great mentor to me as I've gotten older and he's got a couple older girls. So he's kind of in that season of life, like three or four years ahead of me. So he's kind of paving the path a little bit. Uh, but Ryan, you know, on the energy domain side, I he's, he, He sits in board meetings once a month. mean, he's chairman of the board. I he's not really involved in the day to day. I mean, if we, we have questions on like really big decisions, we'll, we'll rope him in, but you know, for, know, 99 % of the decisions are made by, by me and Malcolm on a daily basis. But I think it's more just, yeah, I think Ryan's pretty introspective, you know, Ryan's really good at building teams. You know, we, and I can get into this whole, use this behavioral study at the office called culture index. I've talked to Corey a lot about it. Yeah, Ryan's an enterpizer. he's, he's, he's not the type of guy who wants to manage, you know, 30 plus people. Right. Like he likes to, he gets concepts and business ideas and puts teams together. And I think, you know, over the last few years, he's, he's done some introspection and realized that, you know, he, likes to create the teams and kind of get out of the way. Right. And kind of be involved in some of the big decisions. Whereas, you know, I am, I do enjoy some of the, you know, the people side of the business. Right. That's, that's kind of what makes me tick. I'm. My profile is technically called a rainmaker. So I get all my energy from being around people all the time, which is kind of why I lean more towards the sales side. I try to be very involved in the sales process and it's obviously not, it's not sustainable for me to be just doing demos all day every day. But as you guys can appreciate in the early days, that's something I like to have a pretty good handle on. I mean, I'm still doing probably three or four demos a day myself. And I'll plug in obviously our sales team where it makes sense. can at least like kind of tee up the big picture relationships and do an initial demo. Now, know, Jerry Howell and the rest of the sales team on the data side can handle that. And kind of take it, you know, take the, take the deal like through the pipeline to complete fruition. But that's kind of like, that's, that's kind of my day to day is, is definitely kind of more like driving. Ben Heinzelmann (34:37.346) the high level on product development, know, obviously market positioning, all those things, but definitely more sales focused. Whereas Malcolm, who's our president, he is the, he is like quintessential ops guy. Right. So when you talk about like this behavioral study stuff, like we literally have the opposite dots. We're both just high a trait, right? Like we're both like high drive, but he's the guy who will sit in his office with his lights off, just grinding away, right? Like building. Like I can come out of the shower with some idea and like two days later, he's got some bullet point plan to execute, right? When I, which I really didn't even ask for. And I think that's, that's why it's worked out pretty well so far. Corey Scott (35:15.184) Yeah, shout out. Shout out to Ryan real quick. You know, like you said back to when you and I first met, Ryan was part of that as well. So I want to make sure I say hey to him with that. but you know, even to the comment you made, it's hard for a lot of people founders to, you know, be, or have the ideas that they do execute on them, put a team together and then have the trust, but have the trust enough to kind of walk away a little bit from the hands on. Right. Ben Heinzelmann (35:42.392) Mm-hmm. Corey Scott (35:43.037) There's a lot of folks that can say they do it, but the next thing you know, it's like they hand it over to somebody, right, or a team. And it's like, you handed it over. Yes, you're still tied to it, but then you realize they're still kind of in the weeds with you. And you're like, hey, where are we really going with this? Right. So I know from afar, he's done a pretty good job of that, what you're saying. I know that's hard for a lot of people to do, right. And actually say it. Ben Heinzelmann (35:56.492) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (36:03.854) If you injected Ryan with some truth serum, he would tell you that that was very hard for him, I think. But once he really let go of it, I think he started to see the fruits of that decision. And I think it's made it even easier for him. He's done a really good job of that over the last few years. Corey Scott (36:20.432) Well, he's got a few others kind of going on right with energy hire. You guys have the marketplace side domain, so it's not just one product. He's got Ben Heinzelmann (36:26.862) He's got a beverage business now too. Corey Scott (36:31.452) I need to catch up with y'all offline on that I guess but that's yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (36:35.775) yeah, for sure. FUNK (36:37.764) So I want to talk about the technology piece itself because you've seen a lot of evolution and obviously the name of the game is artificial intelligence and AI is sort of everything. How are you guys incorporating AI into your product and how much different is it to build tech now than it was when you started your last company, know, 10 plus years ago? Ben Heinzelmann (36:39.138) That's freezing. Ben Heinzelmann (37:04.492) Yeah, well, this kind of dovetails into your original comment about, you know, thinking that we might've been crazy saying we compete with Enveris, but we really started building this product at the perfect time, right? Because all these models became available. They're obviously getting exponentially better with every release. And when people think about, when I say people, a majority of the market, they think about AI. It's like this sexy chat bot, right? Like that's, we're not, we're not using it for that. you we're using it operationally. So when you think about processing, like this is a simple example, like processing directional surveys, right? Like that's been done manually over the last 20 plus years. We were able to process all of our nationwide directional surveys for a small, small fraction of what our competitors were able to do that for. So that's an example operationally. We're also running all of our courthouse records through a model will be, we believe, you one of the first to do that. we're actually extracting and normalizing attributes from instruments, which was not achievable even a year ago. So we'll eventually add in some cool chat functionality. You can just upload a list of legal descriptions if you want, and it'll just build shape files for you. You can interact with our data. But we're leaning in pretty hard on the MCP side as well. We'll be standing up an MCP server because ultimately, I think that's the direction this thing's going, right? Long-term is... like user interfaces in the next four or five years will be completely customized. mean, you'll be able, you'll essentially be able to have an agent that just goes in and kind of renders whatever you want. Right. So we want to, we want to lean in really hard on the data side, right. And make, make our, our data available to however anybody wants to consume it. Right. And you're going to have folks who want to just jump into the UI and that's great. And obviously we'll, we'll have a solid UI in place to accomplish that for those folks. But FUNK (38:38.532) Agreed, I agree. Ben Heinzelmann (38:56.302) just operationally as we get up market and we're kind of taking this enterprise market share. That's where you win, right? Is these folks, like being able to integrate your data into the workflows, the easier you can make it for these customers to ingest your data, I think that's obviously the better for us and the customer. Corey Scott (39:16.38) Do you think that you have an advantage because you've been able to build a tech stack that's only a few years old now versus say something that's 20 plus years old? Because everyone's going to say we slapped some AI on it. We have to say it at least to make sure people know what's on there. But you really want to dig deep. It's not hard to say, well, how can you do it? Your product's 20 years old, 30 years old. FUNK (39:25.326) us. Ben Heinzelmann (39:26.284) Yeah, 100%. Ben Heinzelmann (39:33.88) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (39:39.031) Yeah. Corey Scott (39:41.008) But like you said, right, future could be just agents are going in, pulling data, doing whatever, but you still have to have the foundational element to allow that to happen to some degree, I would believe. Ben Heinzelmann (39:50.321) 100%. Yeah. mean, even a small example would be like we had our marketplace that was running off of a separate SQL server. We had like the old mineralware well data going into it. We had a separate Postgres database that's powering our data application. And like just even with as small as we are like winding down the SQL server and then being able to plug in Postgres into our new marketplace, like just that process in alone. was a giant undertaking. So fast forward 20 years, if we have a customer base, thousands and thousands, 100,000 users, whatever it is, like trying to completely re-engineer your database is a massive undertaking. And at some point, some of these companies get to a place where it just doesn't make any economic sense to do that, right? So the timing I think has worked out pretty well for us. FUNK (40:36.258) Yeah, that's really valuable insight. I understand what you're saying, just because I deal with technology a little bit and play around with it. But the things that were hard to do are going to become really simple to do. So I think differentiation becomes a little bit harder. creating a mode, think modes are just getting destroyed right now. I think your mode is the way that you interact with your customers. there's still a human element here where people will choose to do business with people that they like, people that they trust, and people that have a vision moving forward. And I think that you've dialed in on that. And you talk about your cultural side of things. So do you have a test or something when you're hiring people that you make them take that ensures that they fit culturally, that they have the right personality and skill sets? Or are you doing it by feel? Ben Heinzelmann (41:31.502) Yeah, I call it the bin beer test. No, I'm kind of kidding. No, I mean, I talk with, I, you know, going back to your point on trying to kind of step back and not, you know, be overbearing, make sure you're really empowering your team. I've tried to take some of those lessons from Ryan and really apply that as well. Cause I struggle with that, you know, especially as we've grown from five employees to 31, 32. Now the one thing I will do is I want to have my hands on every hire. I want to meet every person that's coming in. FUNK (41:34.756) you Ben Heinzelmann (42:01.508) because if I'm good at one thing, it is reading people and kind of understanding what, you know, what makes people tick. but as far as like an actual test, like we will have them take this culture index survey. So there's no wrong or right answers. It helps us understand how their brain is wired and, what their drive is, their pace, you know, their, their attention to detail. because you, you you're hiring like a, for a sales role, right? Like there's plenty of people with, you know, a, a VC that, tells them. or your, you your resume that says like, was, you VP of sales or I was a, you know, VP of business development, right. At whatever X, Y, and Z company, which is great. But ultimately they may have just gotten into that role, just kind of haphazardly or somebody left or whatever. And so, and then you have them take this, this test and it helps us understand like, this person's actually like high detail, low social trait. Right. And so that doesn't really set them up for success. Whereas conversely, if I'm hiring somebody that's a You know, needs to be attention to detail oriented, right? Like they're an operations person. Like you don't necessarily want somebody that's just like sub zero levels of attention to detail, right? And like high social, like there's, so it's, it's, it's not, it's not like we're not making massive decisions on that, but it does kind of help us guide the conversation. FUNK (43:22.756) Let's talk about outside of work stuff. what do you do? Obviously you play golf. That's why we had to push this for a week, but I can't be mad at that. Like you said, gotta swing the clubs every once in a while. What do you do when you're not working, right? Obviously we talked about family early on in this recording, like what do you do when you're not working, when you're actually like able to check out? What is it for you that makes you tick? Ben Heinzelmann (43:48.174) Oh man, my days pretty much. So I'm coaching my son's sixth baseball season right now, which is super fun. Got a great group of dads who are some of my best friends. Then it's pretty much any, like any time I have outside of that, which is very little, is I try to be on the golf course, right? I can, that's, that's what I enjoy doing the most. As you mentioned, went on a little trip last week with a bunch of guys, had a great time. But that's pretty much it, man. It's like at this point in time, other hobbies, there's not a whole lot of time for that. So it's usually me just hanging out with buddies or, you know, the, every other week, a guy's happy hour, you know, which is far and few in between, unfortunately these days. But yeah, I try, I'm pretty simple guy, man. I, I spend most of my time with my family on, on, obviously on our business. And, know, hopefully once every other week, I can, I could sneak out to the golf course a little bit. Usually Friday afternoon is kind of the time. FUNK (44:22.276) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (44:46.542) because my wife and kids are both in school and I'm not getting a bunch of text messages. I'm on the golf course, but weekends are really challenging these days. pretty much, it is sports, sports, sports all day. I Fullworth is, as I know Houston is too, I Fullworth is a huge sports town. So we're involved in all the things. FUNK (44:53.731) Yeah. Corey Scott (45:06.384) You gotta have the built in babysitter that way. I'm with you. I feel like the weekdays is much better to say I'm gonna go golf on a Saturday and chew up, you know, I'd love to say a few hours, but who are we kidding, right? There's always the 19th hole afterwards, so it always ends up being a six hour day. Like, yeah, you're gonna pay for it on the back end. So you're... Ben Heinzelmann (45:09.208) Yeah, 100%. Ben Heinzelmann (45:23.762) Yeah, you have to strategically, you got to strategically spend the wife equity, you know. So my wife's taking the kids up to Tulsa on Sunday for a few days and I'm going to meet her up at the lake. So I have three or four days to myself and you best believe after this time change, they all sneak out. When I leave the office to the course for a quick nine each day, it'll be a good way to spend a few days. That doesn't happen very often. So I got to take advantage. FUNK (45:23.928) Yeah, no doubt. FUNK (45:29.444) You Corey Scott (45:30.076) thousand percent FUNK (45:50.649) Yeah, let you decompress a little bit. I dig it. Some advice that you might give either to your younger self or to the aspiring young entrepreneur, like you're getting into the business world now, or you have aspirations to do something big or something you might tell yourself, the 24 year old version of yourself, anything come to mind for you, Ben Heinzelmann (45:53.633) Mm-hmm. Ben Heinzelmann (46:13.43) Yeah, the one thing I would say is don't, feel like, you know, we're kind of in this era right now, just hyper individualism, like trying to super focused on how much money can you make right out of school and all of those things. Anybody that's young, if you have an opportunity to do something that you're passionate about, that you think can lead to success down the road, or you have an opportunity, you know, and you're just comparing it side by side, you know, based on salary. Like don't worry about salary when you first graduate from school. you're, if you, know, any, you get a decent offer, like it's going to cover your bills, like go for it. You know, don't worry about like, okay, I'm to make 120,000 here or 80 here. Right. Like that, that should not be a focus. If it's something you're passionate about, go chase it. The money will end up coming. If it's something that you're passionate about, do that. Because I, you one thing that I appreciate is I wake up super energized, motivated, excited to do what I do every day, which is a huge blessing. And that's, that is a, to, you know, going back to you talk about just, you know, balancing, mean, that to me is wealth. Like I have, you know, I have complete control over my schedule. I never miss anything, you know, for my kids. I'm excited to do what I do every day. That's fun. That's, that's like, In my opinion, that's a good way to live life. know, and I've seen as I'm sure you guys do too, you have buddies that have been in the corporate grind now for 25, 30 years and it's worn on them big time, you know, and that's, and for some people, for some people, like that's great. They need guardrails, whatever. I think just really understand who you are and your risk tolerance and don't worry about the money initially coming out of school. FUNK (47:54.852) greater vice. Corey Scott (47:54.885) Yeah, I add to that. I mean, to each their own. Right. And I think, you know, the statement, the feedback you gave there is is great. You know, once you had kids and everything else, you know, and being able to spend the time with them and you're not tracked by the hour and having to, you know, spend a vacation time and that stuff being tracked like, you know, you're rich in that way. Right. It doesn't always have to be, you know, from a monetary perspective. And I've talked to guys that would say, man, I kind of feel handcuffed or stuck where I'm at. You know, I I'm working 12 hour days or I'm never able to turn it off or have people, you know, and sales or it's hit me up all the time throughout the night. And I always want to help them. But there's an opportunity cost to that. And I know some of them would say, man, I'd give up 50,000, 75,000 my commission, just be able to have more time here because I can't get that time back. But it's also like, Ben Heinzelmann (48:19.233) Yes. Ben Heinzelmann (48:36.141) Yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (48:46.68) Yes. Corey Scott (48:49.076) I know I want that and you your lifestyle and your choices has been able to accommodate for that flexibility. I think it's awesome. Ben Heinzelmann (48:55.864) Well, and let me add one more thing on top of that. This might be controversial, but if you have young guys and young girls listening, get married young. Because I can tell you, like again, in this kind of modern era of make sure that you're financially set and all those things, like you're never going to be financially ready to start a family or get married or have kids ever. That's just not how it works. If you truly want to build a career, FUNK (49:17.07) ever. Ben Heinzelmann (49:23.426) You want to be entrepreneurial. It is so critical that you have a supportive system at home. And I've been very lucky to have that. And I can't imagine not having it. I certainly would not be where I am right now if I did not have that. So I think when the world is telling you again to like focus on yourself, like if you find somebody you love, get married, start a family, you'll never regret it. And it will end up bleeding over into other phases of your life, including business. Corey Scott (49:55.165) So Jeremy, think we got, you know, kind of from a big swing approach, I'll ask you Ben, in a two part way. Biggest swing in your life or your career. Obviously you've got probably a few to choose from, but deep down you'd say, okay, I know for sure without a doubt this is probably it. And then on the sports side, we're coming into semi-finals, championship of all the major conference basketball tournaments. I see you used. FUNK (50:17.55) Yeah. Corey Scott (50:19.162) You've been doing right, but we got the big dance, we got the big tournament around the corner. So any big swing on who you think is gonna win it? So I'll pose those two questions for you. FUNK (50:23.223) yeah. Ben Heinzelmann (50:25.602) Yeah, you. Ben Heinzelmann (50:30.632) And I don't know, I'll say this, see the bags under my eyes, it's because I've stayed up watching the OU games the last two nights. We've been, my brother-in-law is a huge OU basketball supporter. And it's kind of funny because like most OU guys, like it's all football, football, football. He's like the one guy who's, he's actually one of my pledge brothers. He married my sister, but he's like super into it. And like, he's been so down all year. We lost like seven games in a row in January. FUNK (50:36.598) You FUNK (50:47.502) Yeah. FUNK (50:52.366) Cool. Ben Heinzelmann (50:58.23) ready to fire our coach and all that stuff. And now we've just been on a heater. Like I think it's the first time we've won six conference games in a row since like 2008 or something like that. yeah, I think we play Arkansas tonight. So I'm going have to go with my seniors for the SEC championship, get into the tournament, which is, it's kind of do or die tonight. I think if we win tonight, we will have a good chance to get in, which will be great. I'll be honest, I'm not a huge college basketball guy. You could ask me anything about college football and I can vomit it to you in two seconds. Basketball is kind of like, it's one of those things with like, Marks Madness is on, let's get the guys together and go have some beers. But I'm not the guy to ask, to be honest. Corey Scott (51:43.972) I love Jeremy that Florida doesn't even enter the mind of a concern right there. Like, you's hot. We're just going to ride the train, man. You got to ride it. FUNK (51:48.588) No, no. Who? Ben Heinzelmann (51:49.206) yeah, we're hot. We're hot, baby. FUNK (51:54.501) I love it. He didn't even bother answering the first part of the questions like we talked about business enough and going straight for the Sooners and we're talking about that. That's fine. Corey, how about you, man? What's your what's your big swing heading into conference championship weekend for college hoops? I know you're a big college sports fan. Ben Heinzelmann (52:04.121) Sorry, I might have missed that part. Corey Scott (52:16.368) Yeah, definitely on the basketball side too. I'd say I've been paying attention pretty heavily to Big 12 just because I think it's probably the strongest conference right now. And unfortunately there's been some injuries. I think they'll hurt some of the teams in the tournament. mean, Iowa State's been playing really hot, but I still will just go with Arizona. I think Arizona's probably going take down the Big 12 on that. And I'd probably say for the big dance. FUNK (52:38.339) Yeah. Corey Scott (52:44.924) I'd probably keep riding Arizona. That'd be mine. I know one seat's kind of known, but I mean, I can't take a five seat the way I'd see it right now. I think Cream Rises to the top there, those top three to five teams are pretty solid. FUNK (52:47.396) Really? FUNK (52:53.837) Yeah FUNK (52:59.342) Yeah, you my wife went to Duke, so it's Duker Bust around here, and they got a good shot this year, so we will see. But anyways, Ben Einzelman, thank you so much for coming on, Ben Heinzelmann (53:03.282) boy. Ben Heinzelmann (53:09.582) You'll have to have me back in the fall. We'll talk some college football and I'll provide all the content you want. FUNK (53:13.7) I'd love to. FUNK (53:17.26) I love it. love it. All Well, last last quick one for you then the greatest college football team of all time in Ben Heinzelman's Humble Opinion. Ben Heinzelmann (53:19.118) You Ben Heinzelmann (53:28.046) Oh man, that's a tough one. You may have to go with, man, of all time, I think that 2019 LSU team is pretty damn good. FUNK (53:38.698) pretty good, pretty good, offensively for sure. Ben Heinzelmann (53:41.194) do, do two first round picks at receiver first round pick a quarterback actually first overall pick a quarterback. It's not bad. Three, three, pro three all pros on one team. Yeah, not bad. Corey Scott (53:43.068) holders. Corey Scott (53:52.998) Top paid receivers in the game. FUNK (53:55.108) Yeah. FUNK (53:59.557) Decent, I go further back, man. I think that 2001 Miami team with Ed Reed and yeah, they were tough, man. Ben Heinzelmann (54:05.838) It was good. Maurice. Yeah, yeah. Well, and yeah, think any of those early USC team like that 04 USC team was insane. mean, OU was beating the shit out of everybody they played that year and then we lost 55 to 19 in the the Orange Bowl. Yeah, was a deal. As if you could, yeah, not like I know the exact score or anything like that. But yeah, mean, dude, there's been God. FUNK (54:17.709) Air to have. FUNK (54:25.421) wasn't even closed. Corey Scott (54:29.212) We'll let him bring it up. FUNK (54:30.904) Sorry to... Ben Heinzelmann (54:39.138) you had some incredible teams that just like the timing was just terrible. We ended up playing just some team that was just all world like playing, playing Tebow and, you know, and Percy Harvin and those guys in 2008. mean, our team was unbelievable that year. Same goes for 2017 when we had Baker and CD Lamb, Mark Andrews and Hollywood Brown and all those guys and still lost. You know, it's tough being a Sooner fan, but we'll get there eventually. FUNK (54:44.736) legendary. FUNK (55:09.827) Nice. Corey Scott (55:10.0) Y'all are always stacked. Always stacked though. Ben Heinzelmann (55:11.85) let's see. I'm optimistic this year, boys. I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. FUNK (55:17.006) Then where can people find you, man? Your company, you, if they want to reach out, ask any questions. And Energy Domain, where do they find you at? Ben Heinzelmann (55:24.59) I'm pretty accessible, man. I'm on LinkedIn. I've got a Twitter, Heinze1989, think. Yeah, so I'm pretty accessible. Anybody can DM me if you want to learn more. FUNK (55:38.05) energydomain.com. Ben Heinzelmann (55:40.81) yes, energino-main.com as well. Yeah. So anybody that wants to try it, to do like a, have a seven day trial of the data product and also on our marketplace, everybody can sign up for free. have an iOS and an Android app where you can kind of flip through deals and check out what's on the market. So encourage everybody to get in and check those out. FUNK (55:58.424) Yeah, I'll sign up for a free trial today. I appreciate that. Ben Hinesman, thank you for coming on. Corey, go enjoy the family time, man. We're here talking about how important family is. And you're at Disney, and you still carved out time for this. So shout out to you for that. But enjoy your time with the family. Safe travels home. And let's have a great weekend, fellas. Take it easy. Ben Heinzelmann (56:02.381) Do it. Ben Heinzelmann (56:17.902) You bet guys, y'all have a good spring break. See you fellas, bye. Corey Scott (56:20.615) Thanks Ben.