Latest / Northern Quarter Talks / I Lost My Own Voice | Jess Robinson

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I Lost My Own Voice | Jess Robinson · Northern Quarter Talks

• 0:00
  Jess Robinson: I found that I was very being a very good girl, I was very small, I was not challenging unfair things, I was not standing up for myself, I lost my own voice.
• 0:08
  Jess Robinson: And so I turned to my impressions because I realized that instead of hiding behind them, I could borrow instead of a voice, a quality that I admired in someone else.
• 0:21
  Jess Robinson: I've come up with a sort of a three-step um programme, which is borrow, repeat, become, as in BRB.
• 0:30
  Jess Robinson: You're you're making yourself smaller to make somebody else more comfortable.
• 0:33
  Jess Robinson: Or you're you're keeping the, I say I, you know, I keep the peace at the expense of my own.
• 0:38
  Jess Robinson: Yes.
• 0:38
  Jess Robinson: And that that is that's really hard on your body.
• 0:43
  Andy Coley: How did you get that one?
• 0:44
  Andy Coley: How did you land there?
• 0:46
  Jess Robinson: Um, I lied.
• 0:47
  Jess Robinson: I was a lot of my career has stemmed from this lie of just saying, Oh yes, I can do that.
• 0:53
  Jess Robinson: There have been a few times in my life, but one of the biggest moments was when a producer said to me, I hope you're not.
• 1:01
  Jess Robinson: Well, what a thing to say.
• 1:04
  Title: This is the TEDx Northern Quarter Podcast.
• 1:08
  Andy Coley: So, Jess Robinson, award-winning impressionist, broadcaster, and definitely an entertainer.
• 1:15
  Andy Coley: I know this for a fact.
• 1:16
  Andy Coley: I'm seeing you in action.
• 1:17
  Andy Coley: Welcome to the TEDx Northern Quarter, TEDx and Talks podcast.
• 1:21
  Jess Robinson: Thank you so much.
• 1:22
  Jess Robinson: It's so exciting to be here, and it's been a long time coming.
• 1:27
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 1:28
  Jess Robinson: And um, yeah, finally just a couple of days away from the talk.
• 1:32
  Jess Robinson: It's very, very exciting.
• 1:34
  Jess Robinson: I love it.
• 1:34
  Andy Coley: Yeah, well, whilst this won't go out a couple of days before the talk, what is amazing is yeah, we are in Manchester for the TEDx event.
• 1:42
  Jess Robinson: Yep.
• 1:43
  Andy Coley: All the prep for that.
• 1:44
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 1:45
  Andy Coley: All this stuff has happened now.
• 1:47
  Andy Coley: You know, we are literally you know 36 hours away from from getting the event up and running.
• 1:53
  Andy Coley: So I I'm I'm starting to feel the the buzz and the energy and the excitement building as well.
• 1:58
  Jess Robinson: Good.
• 1:58
  Andy Coley: It gets to that point sometimes where you get a little bit slave to the logistics.
• 2:02
  Andy Coley: I'm still gonna be finding that.
• 2:03
  Jess Robinson: And what a lot of logistics you've had to cope with.
• 2:05
  Andy Coley: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:06
  Andy Coley: So and you, of course, have been working with your speaker coaches and and all of those side of things to get your talk right, memorized, tweaks.
• 2:13
  Andy Coley: Titles have changed, like yeah.
• 2:15
  Jess Robinson: Oh my gosh, now we're here.
• 2:16
  Jess Robinson: The title, I don't even well, we'll see what the title ends up as.
• 2:20
  Jess Robinson: We'll see.
• 2:20
  Jess Robinson: Um, it's that's exciting, but um yeah, and and doing all of that in amongst other things going on in life.
• 2:28
  Jess Robinson: It's been a it's been a lot, but it has also been so worth it, and I felt like I have grown as a speaker, and the the it's been interesting actually, really working with my coach John, and uh I also had a session with Steve, and just speaking it out loud, going back, you have this initial idea, and then the more you speak it and examine it, you really end up honing it.
• 3:00
  Jess Robinson: And actually, I think what's on at the webs on the website at the moment, what I said the talk was about, yeah, is sort of it's sort of gone diagonally, you know, up.
• 3:09
  Jess Robinson: And it's you know, it's branched out quite quite differently and quite interestingly.
• 3:14
  Jess Robinson: And I love it, I love what I've discovered.
• 3:16
  Andy Coley: Yeah, this is one of the reasons why we actually don't land on the titles for what we submit until the talk's done.
• 3:24
  Andy Coley: Yes.
• 3:24
  Andy Coley: Because then at that point I think the speaker truly knows what their talk is titled.
• 3:28
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Andy Coley: Some people know in advance they've got this really clear idea about what they want to call it and where they want to go with it.
• 3:33
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 3:33
  Andy Coley: And others evolve.
• 3:34
  Andy Coley: I know when I did my TEDx, my sort of talk very much evolved into what it felt like at the time as well.
• 3:41
  Jess Robinson: Absolutely.
• 3:41
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 3:41
  Andy Coley: So tell so tell the audience, for those that don't know who you are and what you do, a little bit about who you are and what you do.
• 3:48
  Jess Robinson: Oh, well, I would describe myself now.
• 3:51
  Jess Robinson: If a taxi driver ever asks what I do, I just say admin because I do so many different things.
• 3:57
  Jess Robinson: I think it's uh described as a portfolio career.
• 4:00
  Jess Robinson: So I do voiceovers for animations and um adverts and things like that.
• 4:05
  Jess Robinson: I do Dead Ringers on the radio, on Radio 4.
• 4:09
  Jess Robinson: I'm an impressionist, so I've done Dead Ringers and Spitting Image, and I'm also a singer.
• 4:15
  Jess Robinson: Um I'm a singing impressionist, I'm an author and an actor.
• 4:21
  Jess Robinson: Um I also eat a lot of cheese.
• 4:24
  Andy Coley: Wow.
• 4:24
  Andy Coley: Um That's not very good for the vocal cores, though, is it?
• 4:26
  Andy Coley: No, terrible.
• 4:28
  Jess Robinson: Cheese and chocolate.
• 4:29
  Jess Robinson: Terrible, my two favourite things.
• 4:31
  Jess Robinson: Um yeah, have I missed something out?
• 4:36
  Andy Coley: I mean, I've seen you on several of those things.
• 4:38
  Andy Coley: So I think that pretty much ticks most of those boxes.
• 4:40
  Andy Coley: Yes.
• 4:40
  Andy Coley: Okay, and you also do work in in the sort of corporate sector as well, don't you?
• 4:44
  Andy Coley: I do, yes.
• 4:45
  Jess Robinson: There we go.
• 4:45
  Jess Robinson: That's what I missed out.
• 4:46
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, so I do lots of corporate event hosting and entertainment and facilitation and coaching and all sorts.
• 4:53
  Jess Robinson: So yeah, like an event MC, or is that Yeah, uh if if it's daytime, then it'll be sort of facilitation and MCing, but also for awards awards hosting.
• 5:04
  Jess Robinson: So they'll get me to do my act at the beginning, 15 minutes of fun and interactivity and all of the different voices, get everyone singing along, and then we go into the awards, and that's great.
• 5:15
  Jess Robinson: I love it.
• 5:16
  Andy Coley: Yeah, so those things are good fun when you get the right person, the right energy that matches that as well.
• 5:19
  Jess Robinson: The funny thing about working in sort of corporate entertainment and the corporate world is it's so different from working in just the entertainment world where you often feel like you are the small person with your hands out and sort of a little bit like uh uh uh involved in my talk.
• 5:41
  Jess Robinson: But when you're you're feeling like please, please, will you give me a job?
• 5:44
  Jess Robinson: Uh uh, you know, and you have to really sometimes bend over backwards and contort yourself in order to get a job to be nice to work with, to be this, to be that.
• 5:52
  Jess Robinson: Whereas I find working with on corporate entertainment and holding a room full of grown-ups who are looking at me to lead them as another grown-up, it's so leveling, it's such a nice thing, it feels so steady and um I just it's so validating.
• 6:14
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, and I just I love that.
• 6:16
  Jess Robinson: And lots of performers, lots of stand-up comedians don't really enjoy doing corporates because I think for many stand-ups, they are doing their jokes and you know, doing their act after there's been a load of speeches and people are a bit and the bars being open, and the bars being open, and people are talking, and so they won't get the nuance and they won't get the callbacks and all of that wonderful craft that they whereas and they and they sit there because you are the renter speaker.
• 6:45
  Andy Coley: Right.
• 6:45
  Andy Coley: And you go in and oh, you're the comedian.
• 6:47
  Andy Coley: Yeah, oh you're gonna oh you're gonna be funny, are you?
• 6:50
  Andy Coley: Yeah, it's a task.
• 6:52
  Jess Robinson: It's a really hard.
• 6:53
  Andy Coley: And I mean, I get that, I do a lot of corporate training as well.
• 6:55
  Andy Coley: And I come in there and I'm gonna talk to you about leadership or I'm gonna talk to you about communication.
• 6:59
  Andy Coley: It takes time to warm a room up to suddenly go, okay, I can learn something from this person.
• 7:04
  Andy Coley: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:05
  Andy Coley: Versus somebody who's who's really paid to come and see you, or is an audience member something they're very invested in.
• 7:11
  Andy Coley: I mean, I've yeah, I've been see Dead Ringers and various like Radio 4 shows as at one last week with Ian Smith.
• 7:18
  Jess Robinson: Oh, brilliant.
• 7:19
  Andy Coley: These people are queuing around the block, yeah, literally to get into this show, and they are already like it doesn't matter what you say, they'll be laughing along with you or at you.
• 7:27
  Andy Coley: Yes, they're excited because they're already excited to be there, which is very different from like a you know, uh, like I say, like a renter speaker for a corporate event.
• 7:34
  Jess Robinson: Absolutely, yeah.
• 7:35
  Jess Robinson: But I do find that, you know, a bit of Lulu and uh Shirley Bassey and Britney and Gargar, and you know, that that sort of a big blast of music and impressions and that really energizes the room and makes things fun, and then they're sort of oh, oh, it's not just someone telling jokes.
• 7:54
  Jess Robinson: So that's nice.
• 7:55
  Andy Coley: Uh your Lulu is better than my Lulu, to be fair.
• 7:58
  Jess Robinson: Well, maybe we'll do a little impressions masterclass and we'll see.
• 8:03
  Andy Coley: So all of those things that you know, from the advertising to the the broadcasting to the singing, they're all about voice.
• 8:09
  Andy Coley: And voice is very much about what your talk is all about, isn't it?
• 8:12
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:14
  Andy Coley: So give us a little sort of uh an overview.
• 8:16
  Andy Coley: Um, if I was a taxi driver and you were telling me about this event you're about to go and speak at, like what is it and where have you landed to to where the talks or what the talk's gonna cover?
• 8:27
  Jess Robinson: So, what the talk is really going to cover is that when your own voice feels small, I mean I'm not talking about literally your voice, but you know, as as your your the way that you communicate, if you struggle with that and you struggle to stand up for yourself or challenge something unfair or have a difficult conversation, what you can do, and this is where I sort of got the idea from my impressions, instead of because instead of I found that I was very being a very good girl, I was very small, I was not challenging unfair things, I was not standing up for myself, I lost my own voice.
• 9:06
  Jess Robinson: And so I turned to my impressions because I realized that instead of hiding behind them, I could borrow instead of a voice, a quality that I admired in someone else, and use that as inspiration to stand up for myself.
• 9:25
  Jess Robinson: So I've come up with a sort of a three-step um program, which is borrow, repeat, become, as in BRB.
• 9:34
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, you know, BRB, I'm just gonna find my voice.
• 9:36
  Jess Robinson: And so you can borrow a quality you admire in someone else, you can repeat it in everyday situations until it becomes yours.
• 9:46
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 9:47
  Jess Robinson: And your aim isn't really to become another person, it's to to unlock what is available in you.
• 9:52
  Jess Robinson: Um, so yeah, it's it's exciting and it's been brilliant living it because I've been doing it for a while, but to really hone it in a way that you know that I can speak about and also teach other people, it's been it's I've sort of relived it and re found it, and it's it's the first time, this is the first time I will have stood on a stage and spoken for 15 minutes without breaking into song, without doing too many silly voices.
• 10:25
  Jess Robinson: There'll be a couple in there, um without hiding.
• 10:30
  Jess Robinson: And that so that this whole process has been quite vulnerable for me, yeah and and really liberating.
• 10:37
  Jess Robinson: And so the TEDx is sort of in a way the the living proof, the result of the doing the three steps, BRB, yeah.
• 10:48
  Andy Coley: And it's interesting because I've I've heard of people you know say the like WWAD, like what would Oprah do?
• 10:53
  Andy Coley: Or what were so many, you know, and that that whole thing of if this person were here at the moment, yes, facing this challenge or feeling like this, what how would they respond?
• 11:03
  Andy Coley: That's exactly almost like borrowing that aspect of their personality.
• 11:07
  Jess Robinson: That's right, because we've all been you don't have to be an impressionist or a performer, you we've all been modelling other people since we were children, it's how we learn to speak.
• 11:15
  Jess Robinson: So this is using that same human instinct deliberately, yeah.
• 11:20
  Jess Robinson: And um, I mean, the way that I I tell people to do it, um, you've gotta you've gotta come up with a hook like impressionists do to get into an impression.
• 11:32
  Jess Robinson: So if I was gonna be Britney, I would go Al and that would get me in.
• 11:36
  Jess Robinson: Or if I was gonna be Liza, I'd say Xiaoi.
• 11:40
  Jess Robinson: Or if I was gonna be Theresa May, I'd say Rexnet.
• 11:43
  Jess Robinson: So you'd get a hook and a gesture.
• 11:46
  Jess Robinson: You step into imaginary square.
• 11:48
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 11:48
  Jess Robinson: Don't do it on a TEDx stage the first time you do it.
• 11:51
  Jess Robinson: Do it, you know, in a toilet or in your bedroom on your own.
• 11:54
  Jess Robinson: You'll feel silly, but but if you can unlock the quality that you're looking for even for a second, it means it's it's all it's part of you, yeah, isn't it?
• 12:04
  Jess Robinson: You're you're just practicing a bit of yourself that you don't trust yet.
• 12:10
  Jess Robinson: It's like it's like training a new muscle.
• 12:12
  Andy Coley: Yeah, and for those of you that are watching this as video, I'd replay that back with the video bit turned on if I were you.
• 12:18
  Andy Coley: Right.
• 12:18
  Andy Coley: Because one of the things that you're getting into when you're becoming those people is the physiology is changing as well.
• 12:24
  Andy Coley: Yes.
• 12:24
  Andy Coley: You're physically acting as if you are that person, or your version of that person.
• 12:28
  Andy Coley: It was very much out here, and the uh the Teresa was very down here, and so you shifted and changed your physiology.
• 12:36
  Andy Coley: And I've seen this when watching shows like Dead Ringers is being recorded, is the you know, all of you become the physiology or your version of that in order to step into that character.
• 12:46
  Andy Coley: Yes.
• 12:46
  Andy Coley: And and a lot of my background is with neuro-linguistic programming (NLP), and NLP, the the whole vein that runs through NLP is about the concept of modeling.
• 12:55
  Andy Coley: The founders of NLP modelled the fields of psychology and sociology, anthropology.
• 13:01
  Andy Coley: Yeah, they modeled people who were great at working with people, coaching people to borrow that to become the field of of NLP.
• 13:09
  Andy Coley: Yeah, so there's actually when you're when you're running and doing your your training in NLP, the master practitioner in particular, you do a modeling project.
• 13:17
  Andy Coley: So you find an exemplar who does the thing you'd love to learn how to do, and that can be a task, it can be a behavioral thing, or it can be a thought process behind something, and then you act as if you are that person, and so yeah.
• 13:31
  Jess Robinson: Um what you're saying is I've come up with nothing new.
• 13:35
  Andy Coley: No, no, no, it's not that you've come up with nothing new, you come up with something that's gonna be easily repeatable for people.
• 13:40
  Andy Coley: So the whole concept of BRB, be right back as that person, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:46
  Andy Coley: If that inspires people to be able to then step into that or or act as if they're that character, I think that's that's absolutely fantastic.
• 13:53
  Andy Coley: And you will probably find if you did research around this that people's heart rates, that their hormones are like all sorts of things change when we shift and change our physiology.
• 14:05
  Andy Coley: There's definitely research around that.
• 14:06
  Andy Coley: You know, if you are in a more powerful stance, yeah, you know, that has an effect on what happens within your body system with the oxytocin, with the cortisol levels, with the you know, uh I had that once.
• 14:18
  Andy Coley: I was running some training with an ambulance service, and we're doing things on like powerful stances and you know, uh needing more confidence standards if you're confident, just that little bit of a change helps to make a shift.
• 14:29
  Andy Coley: Uh, and somebody came back in on the second went.
• 14:32
  Andy Coley: Uh, I did this with my daughter, she's been bullied at school.
• 14:34
  Andy Coley: We did the sort of Superman, Wonder Woman hero pose type things, and she's it's completely changed her life at school.
• 14:41
  Andy Coley: It's so brilliant.
• 14:42
  Andy Coley: Just a little tiny thing like that, yeah, can make a massive difference.
• 14:46
  Andy Coley: And I and I know that that's what people will get from your talk.3
• 14:49
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, it's it's so fascinating.
• 14:51
  Jess Robinson: And I was practicing, I've been practicing my talk, obviously, in front of everybody.
• 14:55
  Jess Robinson: Yes.
• 14:56
  Jess Robinson: Um, my poor stepson, who's amazing, he's 15 years old, has has helped me learn it and watched it gazillions of times.
• 15:02
  Jess Robinson: But my my husband was really adamant that he should sit and watch it and help me with it, and because he said this is gonna be so good for Sam to see.
• 15:11
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, this is gonna be so brilliant for him to learn about.
• 15:15
  Jess Robinson: And so we would were discussing, you know, what he took from it, what he could learn from it.
• 15:19
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, but there is that that brilliant study talking about the the superheroes called the Batman effect, yes, which I talk about um briefly in my talk, where young children who stepped into a heroic persona like Batman could persist longer at a repetitive, boring task than those who didn't, because uh it stepping into a character makes you know creates psychological distance.
• 15:43
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 15:44
  Jess Robinson: And so it's not you struggling, it's Batman or Wonder Woman or Liza Minnelli.
• 15:49
  Andy Coley: Batman.
• 15:50
  Jess Robinson: That was good.
• 15:50
  Jess Robinson: Hey, come on, Dead Ringers.
• 15:53
  Jess Robinson: We could push John Culshaw down the stairs.
• 15:55
  Jess Robinson: Just for your Batman.
• 15:58
  Andy Coley: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:59
  Andy Coley: Yeah, just one Batman friend.
• 16:00
  Jess Robinson: Sorry, John, we won't push you down the stairs.
• 16:02
  Jess Robinson: I love you.
• 16:03
  Andy Coley: But yeah, it's a it's about stepping in and acting as if, you know, and stepping into that person in that persona.
• 16:09
  Jess Robinson: And you really it you don't have to be a performer to do it, and it doesn't matter.
• 16:12
  Jess Robinson: It it if you're shy, it's even better.
• 16:15
  Jess Robinson: It helps you.
• 16:16
  Jess Robinson: It's uh, it's and there's a big difference as well.
• 16:18
  Jess Robinson: I don't know what you think, but I feel like there's a big difference between borrowing and hiding.
• 16:24
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 16:25
  Jess Robinson: Isn't there?
• 16:26
  Andy Coley: And masking.
• 16:27
  Jess Robinson: Masking, exactly.
• 16:28
  Jess Robinson: Exactly that.
• 16:29
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, masking, I would say, maybe I should say masking instead of hiding, but you know, instead of instead of sort of shrinking yourself, which it feels sort of disempowering, actually, doesn't it?
• 16:40
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 16:40
  Jess Robinson: I feel like that's what I was doing for a long time.
• 16:43
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Jess Robinson: Being the good girl.
• 16:45
  Andy Coley: Well, people have had to mask for such a long time.
• 16:46
  Andy Coley: Masking, particularly prevalent in being spoken about around neurodiversity, you know, around kids having to mask at school because they're they want to run around, they want to be that buzz, and they've got to mask, mask, mask, and they get out of school and go, write! Yeah, you know, because they've been being good.
• 17:04
  Andy Coley: Yes, you know, all day, and and they've kept that or somebody masks in a relationship because there's a particular way that they choose.
• 17:10
  Andy Coley: Oh my god.
• 17:11
  Andy Coley: Well, this is the way I've been taught that I should be doing something.
• 17:14
  Jess Robinson: So absolutely, absolutely.
• 17:15
  Andy Coley: We are we can sometimes slip into those masks because of culture, because of a belief, because of somebody else's shit that's that they've basically given
• 17:23
  Andy Coley: us.
• 17:23
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, you're you're making yourself smaller to make somebody else more comfortable, or you're you're keeping the I say I you know, I keep the peace at the expense of my own.
• 17:31
  Jess Robinson: Yes.
• 17:32
  Jess Robinson: And that that is that's really hard on your body.
• 17:36
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 17:36
  Jess Robinson: It's it's hard on your health.
• 17:38
  Jess Robinson: In fact, I think I found some, and now I can't remember the exact I can't remember the exact study, but it's something about women who don't speak up, um, live a shorter life.
• 17:51
  Jess Robinson: Right.
• 17:51
  Jess Robinson: And I can believe that.
• 17:52
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 17:53
  Jess Robinson: You know.
• 17:54
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 17:54
  Jess Robinson: I really, I really can.
• 17:56
  Andy Coley: And why why do you have such a passion then for this subject?
• 17:59
  Andy Coley: Is there been a time when you hadn't spoken up or where you noticed actually you were living the mask of the impressions rather than who you were?
• 18:08
  Jess Robinson: 100%.
• 18:09
  Andy Coley: What kind of got you what got you into this stuff?
• 18:12
  Jess Robinson: It was the the fact that there have been a few times in my life, but one of the the biggest moments was when um a producer said to me, I hope you're not I hope you're not a diva like most singers.
• 18:27
  Jess Robinson: And I went, Oh, I'm not really much of a singer.
• 18:30
  Jess Robinson: Well, what a thing to say.
• 18:32
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 18:32
  Jess Robinson: I mean, you've seen my show.
• 18:34
  Jess Robinson: I I'm classically trained.
• 18:36
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, I've been paid to sing for years.
• 18:38
  Jess Robinson: I've sung at the Albert Hall, but I I totally erased the whole skill just to avoid some tension.
• 18:47
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Jess Robinson: And I just kept giving so much of myself away.
• 18:51
  Jess Robinson: And I and something had to change.
• 18:54
  Jess Robinson: Something had had to change.
• 18:56
  Jess Robinson: And I did it in my first marriage, and I've, you know, did it in you know, personal family relationships as well.
• 19:04
  Jess Robinson: Um and so it's it's it's speaking up now and finding my voice.
• 19:10
  Jess Robinson: It's shifted a few relationships.
• 19:12
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, not gonna lie, it has.
• 19:13
  Jess Robinson: But as you said, you know, that's their stuff to deal with.
• 19:17
  Jess Robinson: It doesn't mean that you have to go backwards.
• 19:19
  Jess Robinson: It just takes people a moment to adjust sometimes, doesn't it, when you start behaving differently.
• 19:24
  Andy Coley: And that's what people can do, is they end up going back to the version of the person they think the other person wants us to be.
• 19:30
  Andy Coley: Run the person we actually are as well.
• 19:32
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, so tempting though, just for a quiet life, just to stop the icky feeling or to you know make just to you know resolve the conflict or or whatever.
• 19:42
  Andy Coley: And it can happen the other direction, like somebody stepping up and a shift of identity into a new role.
• 19:46
  Andy Coley: Yeah, I see this a lot working with in in the leadership space, like somebody gets promoted to be a lead or to be a manager, and now they're working with the same team, but in that leader-manager role.
• 19:56
  Andy Coley: So, of course, the relationships change for some.
• 19:59
  Jess Robinson: That must be really hard to navigate, yeah.
• 20:01
  Andy Coley: Because it's it's much easier to turn up at a company in a new role, yeah, because people will see you as the manager.
• 20:06
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, that yeah, yeah.
• 20:07
  Andy Coley: Whereas if they see you as just who I've been working with for the last 10 years, who knows everything about me because we've spoken, you know, yeah, so many times about it, and now you're in charge of me, and all those things that we used to say about the manager.
• 20:19
  Andy Coley: I'm now thinking about you.
• 20:21
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, fuck.
• 20:22
  Andy Coley: Yeah, fuck.
• 20:23
  Jess Robinson: What what what um what advice do you give about that?
• 20:27
  Jess Robinson: Because that's fascinating.
• 20:29
  Andy Coley: Well, just recognise that relationships will change.
• 20:31
  Andy Coley: Recognise that you cannot be the version of you who was in that previous role, that you're gonna have to learn to become uncomfortable, right?
• 20:39
  Andy Coley: Having those difficult conversations, delegating to people that tell you that I don't have the time to do any more work, even though that's their role to do it, becoming the person that is the person that you will be talking about or moaning about, because that's what comes with the territory of the role.
• 20:54
  Andy Coley: You can't be a people pleaser in order to be an effective delegator and manager, because you know, there are different ways of of managing and collaborating and working with other people, but you've got to find your groove, you know, yes, and then model somebody around you who you recognise does it well, and how can you borrow from them?
• 21:11
  Andy Coley: And it's that BRB principle, like what could I do if I, you know, if I want to be this kind of leader, what what who could I step into?
• 21:19
  Andy Coley: What personality, or how can I improvise what they might do in that particular setting in order to be a bit more like them?
• 21:27
  Jess Robinson: So you I mean that that's really interesting.
• 21:29
  Jess Robinson: You've just got to lean into the discomfort until until you're fine with it, until you're used to it.
• 21:36
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 21:36
  Jess Robinson: And just acknowledge that things are gonna be sticky and gnarly for
• 21:40
  Jess Robinson: a while.
• 21:40
  Andy Coley: And that's sticky and gnarly.
• 21:42
  Andy Coley: I mean, you've probably found that like whenever you're trying something new, that must come through as well.
• 21:47
  Andy Coley: I mean, uh it's uh one of the things I went to see recently that you were doing was your Elton John show.
• 21:52
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 21:52
  Andy Coley: What was the name of it again?
• 21:54
  Andy Coley: Elton Reimagined.
• 21:54
  Andy Coley: Elton Reimagined.
• 21:56
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 21:56
  Andy Coley: You took Elton Reimagined to um the Edinburgh Fringe.
• 22:00
  Jess Robinson: Yes.
• 22:02
  Andy Coley: Very successful run there.
• 22:03
  Andy Coley: How many shows did you do at the fringe?
• 22:05
  Jess Robinson: I think it was 27 in a row.
• 22:08
  Jess Robinson: Oh no, we had a day off in the middle, but I can't remember it.
• 22:11
  Jess Robinson: I think I was just asleep.
• 22:13
  Andy Coley: Yes.
• 22:14
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 22:14
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 22:15
  Andy Coley: 27 days.
• 22:16
  Andy Coley: Was it a sellout show?
• 22:18
  Andy Coley: It was a sellout.
• 22:20
  Jess Robinson: We got loads and loads of five-star reviews.
• 22:22
  Jess Robinson: And actually, it was a more successful year than it was last year in terms of the amount of press and reviews we got, which was really interesting because I was told, you know, oh, if you're returning for a second year, you won't get as much attention.
• 22:35
  Jess Robinson: Oh, literacy.
• 22:36
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 22:36
  Jess Robinson: It seemed to grow, but because I had, I don't know if it's because, maybe it's, you know, incidentally, I had not expected so much.
• 22:45
  Jess Robinson: So I'd taken a huge amount of pressure off myself, and I just, and then all these lovely things kept coming.
• 22:51
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 22:51
  Jess Robinson: But mainly I was just, you know, there doing my Elton show, doing all the press around it, and then learning my Ted.
• 22:57
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 22:58
  Andy Coley: So and of course guesting on other people's podcasts or episodes and doing lots of things around because everybody's in the same place.
• 23:04
  Andy Coley: And we're all co-promoting and cross-promoting each other for a while.
• 23:09
  Jess Robinson: Absolutely.
• 23:09
  Jess Robinson: But this is a that's a little bit how the community here feels, you know.
• 23:12
  Jess Robinson: I'm really, I'm really loving that.
• 23:15
  Jess Robinson: I'm really loving the I've there's another TED speaker, Jess Nix, who happens to, you know, same name, same town.
• 23:21
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 23:22
  Jess Robinson: How bonkers.
• 23:23
  Jess Robinson: And we've been practicing, we practiced in the park, and we I went to her and stood in her garden the other day, and we went through our speeches, and we've sat in coffee shops, and just it's been lovely to have that camaraderie.
• 23:35
  Jess Robinson: It's been really lovely.
• 23:36
  Andy Coley: And so we were in the audience together watching Jess when she did a one-woman show at the fringe event where she lives as well.
• 23:41
  Andy Coley: Yes.
• 23:42
  Andy Coley: Yeah, we were both there watching that, weren't we?
• 23:43
  Andy Coley: You know, uh again, it's the icky feeling.
• 23:47
  Andy Coley: That's what I guess I'm coming to.
• 23:48
  Andy Coley: Like whenever you're doing something new, it is icky.
• 23:51
  Andy Coley: Like, how do you how do you work through the right?
• 23:54
  Andy Coley: I've got this idea, I've got this thing, it's a bit shit right now, and I need to push through it and get to something that feels a bit polished.
• 24:02
  Andy Coley: Because you say, like, this is the second year doing the Alison show.
• 24:04
  Andy Coley: Your Alison show is so polished.
• 24:06
  Andy Coley: Oh, I love it from the outfit to what you do, to to to the interactions, to to all of that.
• 24:13
  Andy Coley: That that feels very much like a very well-rounded show that I'm sure you can just right now, you could just do it.
• 24:20
  Jess Robinson: Yes, I could.
• 24:20
  Andy Coley: Because it's you've done it so many times.
• 24:22
  Jess Robinson: Yes.
• 24:22
  Andy Coley: You would have the TEDx would be growing a bit like that even now, even two days to go.
• 24:28
  Andy Coley: Yes.
• 24:28
  Andy Coley: So how do you how do you push through new projects and and get past the the icky start?
• 24:35
  Jess Robinson: I think it I think it really matters um to work out where you're coming from, why you're doing it, what's the yeah, the why.
• 24:46
  Jess Robinson: So with the Elton show, I was coming from a total place of joy.
• 24:51
  Jess Robinson: I was coming from a place of fun and playfulness and wanting to create something fun, a bubble that people could escape into.
• 25:00
  Jess Robinson: There's so much crap going on in the world at the moment, you know, it's a it's a scary place.
• 25:05
  Jess Robinson: Come and be held, come and have a lovely time, you know.
• 25:08
  Jess Robinson: So that was my mission.
• 25:10
  Jess Robinson: And so I had fun with it.
• 25:12
  Jess Robinson: And so the process was fun.
• 25:14
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 25:14
  Jess Robinson: Um and you do previews, and people that come to the show know, like we were saying with Dead Ringers, or or when you're at a corporate, you don't know what you're going to be in for.
• 25:29
  Jess Robinson: But with a uh when you go and see a gig, if it's built as a preview, you know this is work in progress, and that's part of the excitement.
• 25:36
  Jess Robinson: And so if a bit goes wrong, you you know, everybody's in, and you go, Oh, I won't do that one again, or oh, that worked, that's good, and you write it down, or what did you think of that?
• 25:44
  Jess Robinson: And you there's some feedback and and you talk about it.
• 25:47
  Jess Robinson: Um but before, because I was an Olympic level people pleaser, I used to try and create the sort of show that I thought the audience would like to see me do, and also this be the sort of person that I thought the audience and the industry would want to see me be in order to be more successful.
• 26:07
  Jess Robinson: And I was trying to be more edgy and I was trying to be that, and just trying to take so many people's ideas into account and and imagined attitudes and imagined outcomes that it made it very difficult to create, and it was a very uncomfortable process.
• 26:22
  Jess Robinson: And I don't I think the end results, you know, were always great, but I don't think they were very true to who I was.
• 26:30
  Andy Coley: Yeah, and that must be a very difficult different process to going self-creating to something that's like scripted, like a Dead Ringers.
• 26:37
  Andy Coley: Yes.
• 26:37
  Andy Coley: How much involvement do you have in the script?
• 26:39
  Andy Coley: Are you literally given the script and expected to then perform the script?
• 26:43
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, well, so we get the script, we get so the night before Dead Ringers, so we record it on a Thursday, it goes out on a Friday.
• 26:49
  Andy Coley: On a Wednesday, for those that don't know, it's it's a topical comedy news show.
• 26:56
  Jess Robinson: Yes, where we are playing, we're we're so we're all impressionists and we imitate mainly politicians, Alex Jones from The When Show, I'll do a bit of Stacey Solomon.
• 27:06
  Jess Robinson: You know, we've got loads and loads of loads and loads of um different celebrities.
• 27:12
  Jess Robinson: And so the night before, on the Wednesday night, we get a list of this is who we think's gonna be in the news, these are the sort of characters we think are gonna be in, and then you know if your characters are in there.
• 27:24
  Jess Robinson: Yep.
• 27:25
  Jess Robinson: Uh these people are up for grabs, have a listen.
• 27:27
  Jess Robinson: So, you know, some some you know new cabinet um members, you listen, you literally are listening to on the train on the way to the studio.
• 27:37
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 27:37
  Jess Robinson: So then at Thursday lunchtime, you have your read-through, then we all discuss after each sketch.
• 27:44
  Jess Robinson: We have a little discussion about what worked, what we thought didn't work, whether it should be a bit, you know, we're there with the writers and the director, and and they'll go, Oh, that feels a bit long, or that's really funny.
• 27:54
  Jess Robinson: I think it should, I think it should stop there.
• 27:56
  Jess Robinson: I think that's the end of the joke.
• 27:58
  Jess Robinson: Or could you say something like this?
• 27:59
  Jess Robinson: Because I've noticed she always does that.
• 28:01
  Jess Robinson: So it's all really collaborative.
• 28:02
  Jess Robinson: Then the actors go away, Jan and I'll go for lunch, and um we come back for an on-mic rehearsal at about four or five, five o'clock, and then we record it at seven.
• 28:16
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Jess Robinson: And maybe 20% of the show doesn't make it onto the radio because there's always better to have more.
• 28:26
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 28:27
  Jess Robinson: I love a good cut.
• 28:28
  Jess Robinson: I know I've noticed this in all my shows and in my TED talk.
• 28:31
  Jess Robinson: I love cutting out a chunk, and then you go, oh, it's so easy now.
• 28:34
  Jess Robinson: Um, yeah, so it's all quite last minute, but you have to have that sort of core um knowledge
• 28:44
  Jess Robinson: there.
• 28:44
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 28:45
  Andy Coley: Now, of course, for many people, like BBC broadcasting job would be an absolute dream job.
• 28:49
  Andy Coley: Like, how did you get that one?
• 28:51
  Andy Coley: How did you land there?
• 28:53
  Jess Robinson: Um, I lied and said I was brilliant at impressions, basically.
• 28:56
  Jess Robinson: I was a lot of my career has stemmed from this lie of just saying, Oh yes, I can do that.
• 29:02
  Jess Robinson: Um, it's probably another TED talk in that, to be honest.
• 29:05
  Andy Coley: But BRB.
• 29:06
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, BRB, yeah, I can do it.
• 29:08
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 29:09
  Andy Coley: Stepping into the life of the impressionist.
• 29:11
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, I honestly I do think I think there are lots of things I could do if I just said yeah, and had a go.
• 29:17
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Jess Robinson: I reckon I could fly a helicopter, but I do know that I couldn't do ballet.
• 29:21
  Jess Robinson: I know that.
• 29:23
  Andy Coley: Um I've also tried ballet, it is very difficult.
• 29:25
  Andy Coley: It's awful, isn't it?
• 29:26
  Jess Robinson: It's terrible, beautiful to watch, terrible to do.
• 29:30
  Jess Robinson: Um what was the question?
• 29:33
  Jess Robinson: Oh, yes, so uh I was um working in a call center, and I heard that there was um a production of Little Voice coming up.
• 29:48
  Jess Robinson: You know, Little Voice was a film with Jane Horrocks where the painful painfully shy recluse can listen to her dead dad.
• 29:56
  Jess Robinson: No, what is it?
• 29:56
  Jess Robinson: Painful painfully shy recluse listens to her dead dad's old records so much she can imitate them with amazing accuracy.
• 30:02
  Jess Robinson: Um and so I I lied to the director and I said, I'm brilliant at impressions, can I audition?
• 30:10
  Jess Robinson: Yep.
• 30:10
  Jess Robinson: And he said, Yes, it's in five days, come along.
• 30:13
  Jess Robinson: And I had imitated my mum before, and I think I'd done Kate Bush to, you know, in the in the classroom at school just to heath.
• 30:23
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 30:25
  Jess Robinson: It's me or Kathy.
• 30:27
  Jess Robinson: Um and I'd done my biology teacher, Mrs.
• 30:30
  Jess Robinson: Barlow, who always used to say sweet corn in the feces.
• 30:33
  Jess Robinson: I don't know why she said it, I'm so sorry.
• 30:36
  Jess Robinson: Um I've really lowered the tone.
• 30:38
  Andy Coley: She must have had a dog with a sweet corn.
• 30:42
  Jess Robinson: But yeah, so I I lied, said I could do impressions, and then I had five days to learn.
• 30:46
  Jess Robinson: And I could already sing.
• 30:48
  Jess Robinson: So I just listened a lot, and um, and I and I could and I could do it, and I I got the job, and then I was in it was this little production in Hereford, and it so happened that the woman playing my mum knew Bill Dare, who was the Dead Ringer's producer, and at that time it was on the TV.
• 31:10
  Jess Robinson: And um I I I sent him a cassette tape of me, it's how long ago it was, doing Judy Garland.
• 31:18
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, and he went, Oh, it's very good, but we tend to do living people on Dead Ringers.
• 31:23
  Jess Robinson: So uh he said, Can you do any speaking impressions?
• 31:26
  Jess Robinson: And I said, Yes, I'm brilliant at speaking impressions, and then went and had to learn.
• 31:30
  Jess Robinson: Um, and so I I had an audition and I got in to the I was in the last two series of the TV show.
• 31:38
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 31:39
  Jess Robinson: And then um when the radio show came up a few years ago, um, lovely Deborah Stevenson, who's a we're all mates, it's all quite a small community.
• 31:48
  Jess Robinson: But yeah, Deborah, Deborah left and um and I was available and jumped right in.
• 31:53
  Jess Robinson: I mean, Bill Bill Dare um really gave me my my break on TV, and yeah, yeah, there all my life.
• 32:01
  Andy Coley: Yeah, interesting.
• 32:02
  Andy Coley: And did that then get you onto spitting image and other things from that?
• 32:05
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, that so that that um so I was the lead female voice in the the reboot of spitting image.
• 32:11
  Jess Robinson: Yep.
• 32:11
  Jess Robinson: There was also the imitation game on ITV, and I did Britain's Got Talent, which was a whole other bag of what is it?
• 32:21
  Jess Robinson: A bag of sh worms.
• 32:23
  Jess Robinson: I don't know.
• 32:24
  Jess Robinson: I didn't care.
• 32:25
  Jess Robinson: It was a can of worms, bag of bag of shit.
• 32:27
  Jess Robinson: Oh is that what it is?
• 32:28
  Jess Robinson: A bag of shit.
• 32:29
  Andy Coley: A bag of shitty worms.
• 32:30
  Jess Robinson: A bag of it was really, yeah, sweet corn in the feces.
• 32:32
  Jess Robinson: It was not, it was not great.
• 32:35
  Jess Robinson: No, I didn't like that experience at all.
• 32:38
  Andy Coley: And I was at the moment that link to that one in the show notes.
• 32:41
  Jess Robinson: No, I mean you can look it up, but it was that was my most good girl era.
• 32:45
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 32:45
  Jess Robinson: Where I was absolutely contorting myself and trying to please everybody and not knowing who to trust, or yeah, just not having any autonomy.
• 32:58
  Jess Robinson: But I think even if I I don't don't think I I I think it was so buried in there I didn't even know what I wanted.
• 33:05
  Jess Robinson: Yeah.
• 33:05
  Jess Robinson: That's part of the the that's part of the journey though, isn't it?
• 33:09
  Jess Robinson: Actually working out what you want.
• 33:11
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 33:12
  Andy Coley: And and it's interesting, isn't it, as well?
• 33:14
  Andy Coley: It's it's also thinking back along what do I want to be remembered for?
• 33:19
  Andy Coley: Oof.
• 33:19
  Andy Coley: You know.
• 33:20
  Andy Coley: Um which kind of brings me on to the your subjects of memoirs, because you've written a memoir about your your grandmother.
• 33:26
  Jess Robinson: Yes.
• 33:27
  Andy Coley: Um I have.
• 33:28
  Andy Coley: And and what was the inspiration behind that as well?
• 33:31
  Andy Coley: Because it is it is about like how do we what what's the trace we want, what's the legacy we want to leave on the world?
• 33:37
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, yes, absolutely.
• 33:38
  Jess Robinson: And also what gets passed down, yeah.
• 33:42
  Jess Robinson: Even if even if it's not intentional.
• 33:44
  Jess Robinson: Yeah so my grandma Rosi, um when she was 23 years old, she was living and working in an orphanage in Germany, and she played her guitar and she sang, she was like a German Jewish Maria von Trapp, and this was in 1938.
• 34:01
  Jess Robinson: Um and the the Nazis were on the rise, anti-Semitism was on the rise, and because even though she was German, because she had a Polish passport, um, because at that time that your passport just came from your parents, it didn't matter where you were living.
• 34:22
  Andy Coley: Yeah.
• 34:22
  Jess Robinson: Because she had a Polish passport, she was caught up in um the Poland action, which is when Hitler got all of the Polish Jews out of Germany as a sort of dress rehearsal for what was to come.
• 34:35
  Jess Robinson: And she found herself sort of expelled um out with lots of other people and in a sort of a no-man's land town, border town in Poland.
• 34:46
  Jess Robinson: And I have all of her diaries from that time when she was 23 years old.
• 34:50
  Jess Robinson: And um they were all in German, and I wanted to, so I I I translated them with well, I can't speak German actually.
• 34:58
  Jess Robinson: She didn't pass that down.
• 35:00
  Jess Robinson: Um, but my my mum and her friend translated them, and what I decided to do was run them in parallel with my diaries from when I was 23, living in London, starting, I think I get my first Dead Ringers gig during the book.
• 35:15
  Jess Robinson: And it was interesting, so interesting to find the similarities and the differences, but the similarities between how we were so both of us obsessed with boys, even her when her whole life was turned up upside down.
• 35:35
  Jess Robinson: She just really wanted to find love and someone to love her.
• 35:38
  Jess Robinson: Um, but she really knew who she was.
• 35:41
  Jess Robinson: She knew at that age, she knew what she was on this earth to do, which was looking after children.
• 35:47
  Jess Robinson: She she made herself invaluable in this camp and went to um the local gymnasium where they had all the refugee children, and she just started washing them and then she started telling them stories and teaching them.
• 35:59
  Jess Robinson: She was just, and because of that, she was chosen to escort them over on the last kinder transport boat, which saved her life.
• 36:07
  Jess Robinson: So she ended up in London.
• 36:09
  Jess Robinson: But at that age, I was absolutely floundering.
• 36:14
  Jess Robinson: I didn't know who I was or what I was here to do.
• 36:17
  Jess Robinson: And I she was had such a strength of character always.
• 36:22
  Jess Robinson: And I really I don't think I did.
• 36:24
  Jess Robinson: I think only now, actually through writing the book as well, um, have I sort of grown up.
• 36:32
  Andy Coley: Y eah.
• 36:33
  Jess Robinson: And I I say in the the talk, there was such a huge part of me that was frozen as a good girl, and that's it's it's hard to a thaw it out and b go against the the patterns that you've been repeating all of your life.
• 36:52
  Jess Robinson: So yeah, it's a really interesting journey between sisters, sister relationships and mothers and daughters, and what her what what the sort of mother that my grandma turned into, yeah, from being such a caring and tender young woman to actually quite a uh cold mum to my mum because of the trauma, I think, and because of I think my my my mum ended up living the life that my grandma would have liked to have.
• 37:25
  Jess Robinson: Yes, you know, but it's very so interesting or interesting uh about what's what's handed down and how it is now even affecting our relationships and the way that we think and the way we process things now.
• 37:39
  Andy Coley: This whole principle of good or bad through about a person is really tricky, and as a parent, often catching myself in that whole thing of oh, you should be a good girl or a good boy or whatever, because it's part of you know how I was raised, you were good or you were bad.
• 37:56
  Andy Coley: Right.
• 37:56
  Andy Coley: And it's actually like dissociating the behavior from the person.
• 38:00
  Andy Coley: Somebody is not inherently good or not inherently bad, yes, they behave in a way that is perhaps not the best, yes, or they behave in a way which is fantastic, but they are not in and of themselves a good or bad person.
• 38:13
  Jess Robinson: No, everybody, everybody is a three-dimensional human with dark sides and soft sides, and yeah.
• 38:22
  Andy Coley: Interesting, yeah.
• 38:23
  Jess Robinson: It's so interesting.
• 38:24
  Jess Robinson: So, yes.
• 38:26
  Andy Coley: And so, what does the future hold?
• 38:27
  Andy Coley: What's next?
• 38:29
  Jess Robinson: Um, the future holds well, what are we into?
• 38:34
  Jess Robinson: We're coming, we're coming into uh corporate season, big time.
• 38:37
  Jess Robinson: So October, November, I'll be hosting lots of corporates.
• 38:42
  Jess Robinson: And my book is out in paperback in January, which is exciting.
• 38:47
  Jess Robinson: I'm also doing it's called Life is Rosi, Grandma, Me and Our Diaries at 23.
• 38:52
  Andy Coley: Cool.
• 38:52
  Andy Coley: Definitely put a link to that in the show notes.
• 38:54
  Jess Robinson: Yes, absolutely.
• 38:55
  Jess Robinson: Yes, please.
• 38:56
  Jess Robinson: Um, if you live anywhere near Henley, I'm doing the Henley Book Festival, okay, which will be nice.
• 39:03
  Jess Robinson: Um and then I would like to write another book.
• 39:09
  Jess Robinson: I think there's a podcast on the horizon.
• 39:12
  Jess Robinson: If you want to follow me, jessrobinson.co.uk or Jess Robinson official on my TikTok or my Instagram.
• 39:20
  Jess Robinson: I don't do Twitter.
• 39:22
  Andy Coley: Who does these days!
• 39:24
  Jess Robinson: Well, quite.
• 39:25
  Jess Robinson: Um, yeah.
• 39:27
  Jess Robinson: Lots of exciting new projects and things.
• 39:30
  Jess Robinson: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 39:31
  Andy Coley: Awesome.
• 39:32
  Andy Coley: So just before we finish on the podcast, we've got a little tradition where we've got a little red journal where a question from a previous speaker has been left that we are going to ask you.
• 39:42
  Andy Coley: Now I'm not gonna tell you who it is yet.
• 39:44
  Jess Robinson: All right.
• 39:45
  Andy Coley: Um so I'm gonna give you the question.
• 39:46
  Andy Coley: I'd love to hear your answer.
• 39:47
  Jess Robinson: Oh my gosh, okay.
• 39:49
  Andy Coley: So, hello, exclamation mark.
• 39:51
  Andy Coley: When you are 60 years old, how do you want to be described by those who know you best?
• 40:02
  Jess Robinson: Um I want to be described as a ball of energy.
• 40:10
  Jess Robinson: That's that came into my head immediately.
• 40:13
  Jess Robinson: I want to be um a matriarch, not necessarily a mother, but someone that is turned to to help and advise and guide younger people, someone that people can turn to for advice, someone funny and effervescent and living every day authentically and to the max, and also very rich.
• 40:37
  Jess Robinson: Is that a thing?
• 40:39
  Andy Coley: All of those things can be true at the same time.
• 40:41
  Jess Robinson: Lovely, I'll have them all, please.
• 40:42
  Jess Robinson: Tick, tick, tick.
• 40:43
  Andy Coley: Well, you've definitely made our lives richer by coming on this podcast.
• 40:46
  Andy Coley: And I cannot wait uh to see your bundle of energy, your ball of energy shining on the TEDx stage in a couple of days' time.
• 40:53
  Andy Coley: Thank you.
• 40:57
  Jess Robinson: What a lovely chat.