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MBA Wire Taps 531: Australia, 645 GMAT. Austria, 332 GRE · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, October 26, 2026. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. How are things going, Alex?
• 0:28
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graeme.
• 0:30
  Speaker A: So this week we've got a crazy show. We've got a bombshell from a professor at Cambridge Judge a tip regarding unusual interview practices. Real humans, students we've connected with at Michigan, Ross and Carnegie Mellon Tepper, some AI and finance news out of Emory and our candidates to discuss, which are really great ones this week. So I cannot wait to get into it. But Alex, what's going on? I mean is this. I feel like Livewire has been quite active. There's a lot happening right now with round one stuff, right?
• 1:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, we're sort of at the peak of interview invites for round one for sure. So lots of programs that tend to trickle out over a period of a few weeks have been releasing interview invites and Columbia's been releasing interview invites and a couple of other set of the top programs. And then this upcoming week it's going to be Wharton who are scheduled to release their interview invites for their team based discussion.
• 1:26
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:27
  Speaker B: And you typically by that time Wharton sort of wraps up the top schools releasing interview invites. Although I think Sloan is still due to come out. So Johnson is also scheduled to release their interview invites next week. So I would imagine maybe Sloan will do it next week too. And then we've got decisions from early action rounds from Darden and McDonough scheduled. So yeah, we're in the thick around one.
• 1:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, and it's exciting. I mean, I've seen, you know, just so many entries coming in and I just love to see what's happening to people as they go through this process, especially the good news. So I know it's kind of Halloween season, I'm in America still and it's, man, you know, people are, it feels like every year people get more and more decked out. But. But something scary happened in the MBA universe recently and I think many of our listeners heard about this New York Times op ed from a professor at Cambridge Judge. A very spooky piece if you're a business school, because the headline of the piece, the title was I Teach at a Business School. It's time to shut them down. So this professor's name is Chris Marcus and he has taught at a lot of great places. He taught at Harvard for a while, went to Cornell, Johnson, and then more recently at Cambridge, and he's had some posts at a couple of different schools in China, done a lot of research on business and sustainability. And basically he argues in this op ed that business schools prioritize corporate profits and shareholder interests over the broader good and that they perpetuate economic inequality and harmful business practices and that the system is so fundamentally flawed that it needs to be dismantled and reinvented rather than simply revolution reformed. So he also, I mean, I also should mention he takes kind of aim at the case method, particularly as practiced at Harvard where he taught, and he argues that cases often present sort of sanitized, you know, just oversimplified narratives that kind of glorify executives rather than getting students to critically examine broader consequences of business decisions. So anyway, there's a lot in this op ed. It was a really long piece, I want to say a couple thousand words at least. Now, I've since learned that he did not choose the headline. The New York Times did. Surprise, surprise. But I don't know. So I don't know if you have any thoughts on this. I mean, Elliot on our team did write a response, but what did you think when you, I mean, you saw this piece in the New York Times? Like what, what did you make of it?
• 3:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I actually saw the version of it captured on Slashdot, which is my sort of geeky sort of news feed in the morning. And actually I think what they captured on Slashdot in the sort of paragraph summary is a little bit accurate. But it's not an indictment on business schools, it's an indictment on capitalism. Right. And I think many of us would have strong discussions on how capitalism works and the focus on short term wealth or sort of short term returns versus longer term success, etc. Etc. And you read lots of headlines, oh, you know, we've, you know, we're laying off X amount of workers and then our stock price goes up, etc. Etc. These are not particularly good signals to the general public, I would argue. Right. In terms of, okay, what does that make you think about business folks and business leaders, etc. Etc. But that all said, I would identify that there are flaws in the system and that Professor Marcus identifies some of those, but certainly we shouldn't indict business schools for those flaws. And I think Elliot does a really good job of highlighting some of the rational reasons why business schools should, could and need to serve a role to help us navigate what good business practice is and should be and into the future. And as Elliot makes a strong case for, if you fundamentally believe, and I think many of us do that sustainability should be more intertwined into the core business education. Like that is the core curriculum, then we need to work within business schools to make that happen rather than just close them down. It just seems like a ridiculous notion.
• 6:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I could not agree more. And Elliot on our team. Yeah, the piece he wrote, I thought it was great. It was called the MBA isn't the Problem, It's Part of the Solution. And I think that speaks to exactly what you're saying. And I do feel like, yeah, this kind of idea that you're just going to shut them down. I mean, I feel sometimes when you hear about business scandals and, you know, corporate stuff gone wrong, like, it's not, you know, often it's people who don't have management education who really engage in some of the most egregious, you know, kind of misbehavior. And so I don't think it's. Yeah, it's like too simple to sort of say, oh, business schools are the problem. And essentially, I just want to read a quick quote from Elliot's article because I thought he summed it up really nicely. He says Professor Markets gets some things right. Too many students arrive in business school with big ambitions and leave thinking only about McKinsey and Goldman Sachs. Case studies can be too tidy, too flattering to the companies that approve them, and too focused on winners. And a single ethics elective does not change a culture. But every problem he describes is a reason to reform business schools, not to tear them down. And his proposed replacement, looked at closely, is a business school with a different name. Because in the main op ed, obviously, Professor Marcus goes on to talk about what he would put in place. And it does. I mean, I think Elliot's right. It's like it's still kind of a business school. It just has a different name. So anyway, there's a lot of great. It's a great article on our site that Elliot wrote and I think an excellent response. But this has really riled the business school universe and I think in part because there's a little bit of kicking them when they're down going on. Right. I mean, everyone knows that due to a whole variety of factors, you know, the Trump presidency's immigration policies, AI and you know, the rising cost of tuition, that business schools have been taking it a little bit on the chin of late application volumes down a bit, which, by the way, makes it a great time to apply. We'll get into that later with our candidates. But in any event, so I feel like this op ed coming out on that Sunday in the New York Times was a real kind of, you know, tough. Like, I think a lot of people are kind of like, well, geez, thanks for kicking us when we're down, you know, sort of thing. So anyway, never a dull moment, I guess.
• 8:10
  Speaker B: Yeah. And it's also a really good example of don't just, don't just accept the headline, read the story.
• 8:15
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 8:16
  Speaker B: Because there is some meat to the essence of what the original writer wrote.
• 8:22
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 8:23
  Speaker B: But I think our headline is much better and our story support supports directly that headline.
• 8:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 8:29
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I would just finish by saying big kudos to Elliot because, I mean, he, he turned that around very quickly. But when I read it, I was like, you know what? This is a really thoughtful and detailed response. So.
• 8:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I agree. So anyway, in other news, because there's other things happening in the world, Emery Goizueta published some news about. They basically opened this thing called the center for AI and Finance. And you know, essentially they're, I guess they first. My understanding is that they already had some kind of center maybe that started up in the last year, but they've kind of, I think they added some more resources to it. And so they're going to basically invest in research and new courses. I think there's going to be student fellowships and a big conference that they're offering in the spring of 27 here and they've got some former JP Morgan executive who's going to lead the center. And essentially the goal of this center is to just prepare students in business school for the growing role of AI in finance. And you know, I think that's a. Pretty. Obviously we talk a lot about AI and how it's reshaping business, but you know, obviously like within kind of finance, there's probably a lot of interesting but also kind of weighty things to figure out and discuss. Right. I mean, it's, it's a. So in any event, Emory's like, you know, leading the charge here, which I think is kind of cool that they're, you know, devoting resources to this.
• 9:49
  Speaker B: Yeah. And you say they've got someone from J.P. morgan heading that center up.
• 9:54
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 9:55
  Speaker B: And I know J.P. morgan, under the guidance of Jamie Dimon, I think his name is, is really at the forefront of reshaping how they run their business based off of using lots of sort of rag based, you know, LLM type tech.
• 10:14
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:15
  Speaker B: And so forth. So, so. And Jamie Dimon's been very upfront about the. How this is going to impact how they do business. How they do work, etc. Etc. So it's actually a really interesting case study, JP Morgan, in terms of this sort of AI transition.
• 10:31
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:32
  Speaker B: Not sure what Chris Marcus would think of the case study, but, but, but nevertheless, JP Morgan is a, is a great choice for a center like this.
• 10:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. Makes sense. So, other news and notes I didn't mention, but we have a whole bunch of events coming up. So this week, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at noon Eastern, we're doing our next phase of the regional event. So we're doing a Texas one with McCombs and Rice and SMU. We're going to be on the west coast on Wednesday. These are all virtual events, but we'll be visiting the west coast virtually with schools including Berkeley and Foster and UCLA and a couple of others. We've also, I guess, at the same time on Wednesday, we're running an AMA on Reddit with ZF Visa Association. That's our friend Travis, who's a expert on all things visas. So there's going to be a little AMA on Reddit on Wednesday of this week. And then on Thursday we've got the Great Lakes region for our regional MBA series. And so we're connecting with Booth and Kellogg and Carnegie Mellon, Tepper and Michigan Ross and Toronto Rotman. So those are all events just this week. And, you know, looking at the calendar into November, we've got individual webinars that we're going to be running with Wharton Lauderdale, with Vanderbilt, all about how to get consulting jobs. And then with also hbs, we're gonna have an event called Inside HBS Admissions where we've got a senior ADCOM from HBS along with a couple of HBS grads talking about their experience. So, yeah, lots of really fun events coming up. And yeah, I just. The calendar is full, man.
• 12:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
• 12:04
  Speaker A: Another thing about that, by the way, and I feel like, did you have something to do with this? So we did these real humans events with where we connected with alums from all these different schools. Those were, I guess, last week. And we took the transcripts from all of those and built that into kind of a really nice article that's now on the site, which we basically tried to figure out, like, what are all these alums saying about their experience in business school? And it was both current students and alums. Right. So we had both. And so there's a really cool thing. And I was reading the article this morning and basically some of the recurring themes are that obviously the importance of telling an authentic story rather than obsessing Over a score or a number you can't change in your application. The importance of connecting with current students when you're doing your research. Another theme that kept coming up was how collaborative business schools are. That's almost surprisingly so. How collaborative students are together in these programs. And then the value, you'll love this. The value of having clear career goals when you arrive in business school while still remaining open to unexpected opportunities.
• 13:10
  Speaker B: No, very good, very good.
• 13:12
  Speaker A: Yeah. So a lot of good stuff coming out of that. On the website we did an admissions tip. I love this one. It's called Unusual interview Practices and basically we go through some of the schools that have these kind of, you know, very unusual things. So like for example, hbs, you get your interview and you think it's all done and dusted. You just sit back and wait for an answer. Well, no, you have to write a post interview reflection. So it's kind of an essay that you submit after the interview. Same thing with MIT Sloan. You might be excited to find out that you've been invited to interview and then you're given a pre interview essay. I think there might be actually two of them. Right. So there's all these kind of little twists and turns in the process that we wanted people to understand that are tied to the interview. London Business School has like a presentation that you have to do in the interview. Insead has two interviews instead of just one. So all these like quirks that we highlight in this tip and it's a lot of fun and I think we hopefully helps, you know, kind of demystify things for people.
• 14:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. And obviously Wharton has a team based discussion but probably not the focus of this particular tip because we have a lot of resources just dedicated to that particular format.
• 14:18
  Speaker A: Right, yes. So yeah, yeah, that one gets its own tip. We have a whole separate thing for that. But yeah, that's another, you know, very sort of unusual interview practice. So yeah. So then the last thing I wanted to talk about before we get into the candidates, we continue to connect with current students in business school. And so we caught up with students at Carnegie Mellon, Tepper as well as Michigan Ross, over the last week. And I'm just going to share a little bit. So we'll start with Tepper. We caught up with Samantha Lucas and she's a current first year. She's 28. She lists her hometowns as New York City and Pittsburgh. So I guess she split time between the two. She went to Baldwin Wallace University and did a Bachelor's of music in music theater and before business school she was a founder and voice coach for a kind of voice and coaching studio, this kind of in the arts and education space. She did that for more than five years while also performing in parallel as an artist and a singer. She, you know, recorded and you know, put out, put out music apparently in any event. So she, this is a non traditional candidate. And we said, well, why, why did you go to business school? And she says, my career has always lived at the intersection of creativity, performance and entrepreneurship. After earning my degree in music theater, I built a voice coaching business, performed professionally, recorded and released original compositions, and worked with artists at different stages of their careers. Those experiences taught me how much I enjoy building things, working with people and solving problems. But they also made me want a deeper understanding of strategy, technology and how organizations grow. I've chosen to pursue an MBA because I want to add a strong business foundation to my creative background rather than leave that background behind. I saw business school as an opportunity to broaden my perspective, strengthen my analytical and strategic toolkit, and learn alongside people from industries very different from my own. So I thought that was really great. I mean, you know me, I'm a music person, but.
• 16:22
  Speaker B: No, I know that. But also I think Chris Marcus should read that.
• 16:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, right. I know. Well, he'll say she's going to go.
• 16:28
  Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. But to me that's, that's a beautiful role of what the business school provides. Right. It takes a potentially non traditional candidate with really interesting sort of experiences outside of the more traditional domains and provides a really good experience and academic experience for them as well as other aspects to allow them to become successful, successful business leaders.
• 16:54
  Speaker A: Yes, I think that's really fair. And what I was going to say is the only thing he might say is that, oh, she's coming in with these kind of aspirations, but maybe she'll just go become a banker at Goldman Sachs and never do anything creative again. That, that this, you know, but we'll see. Well, one thing I have to say about her though, so I got to thank Samantha because she submitted a video. So for the longest time we've been allowing the real human students if they want to submit a video. And the assignment for the video is take us to your favorite spot on campus and just show it to us on a video and narrate, you know, and so she did that. It's this great little video of her walking around Tepper's campus. She arrives at what looks like a really beautiful quad and there's a cool sculpture in the middle of it. And she just points out why she, why she likes it hanging out there. So that was really fun to watch.
• 17:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, brilliant.
• 17:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. The last thing I wanted to mention is we have so caught up with students, as I said at Michigan, Ross. And so another kind of quick profile here. This is Pat Reeves. He is in the class of 28. So he's a first year student. He's 29, hails from Alexandria, Virginia and he went to Virginia Tech where he studied political science. But after that he went into the military and he worked for seven years as a U.S. army infantry officer. And we asked him like, why did you decide to go to Ross? And he says, Ross's action based learning model is exactly how I've learned in my army experience. And its emphasis on making an impact through business resonates with me deeply. My life's mantra is to leave the earth a better place than I found it. And I feel like Ross was the perfect spot to help me achieve that dream. Location, school pride and opportunities to expand, learn and develop were main factors in my choices. And Michigan is, excels in all of these. So, yeah, it's kind of an interesting story. And he, you know, the interview goes on, he had a lot of interesting, quote, work experience in the military. I mean, you know. Yeah, he's had some very interesting roles. And I think, you know, as we know, the NBA is a great pivot out of the military and into the private sector.
• 18:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt. And it's really good that he highlighted basically the map. Right. And that's, that's what Ross is renowned for. Right. That sort of more action based learning. So really, really very good. I hate to keep bringing up this Chris Marcus stuff, but that Jamie Dimon who leads JP Morgan, I think he is a Harvard MBA.
• 19:20
  Speaker A: Oh, there you go. So, yeah, there are MBAs all over the place. I mean, didn't Tim, didn't Tim Cook at Apple happen to go to Duke Fuqua? Right. There's plenty of mba.
• 19:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, he did quite well at Apple and I think he made it quite successful. He certainly helped the shareholders, Graham. And you'd be one of them, I reckon.
• 19:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. So in any event, yeah, we could go on and on, but I think. Yeah, you make a great point. There's some really.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: I did. What point was that?
• 19:49
  Speaker A: Well, no, just that in any event. Oh, so one last thing I totally forgot. We just released a podcast with an admissions director at Insead, this guy named Larry Medina, who I'd never met before he came on the show. Really terrific guy. He actually went to Tuck for his MBA and Then worked in finance and then got involved in kind of career coaching and worked at a handful of business schools before landing at insead, where he's been for a long time doing kind of career stuff and now moved into admissions. Really interesting guy. He's also a runner. So we talked a little bit about that. I asked him if he had any advice because he's been running a really long time. And I asked him if he had any advice about running. And I thought, I should share this with you, Alex, because what do you think the one piece of advice he said he gave me because I said, how do you keep running? He's a little bit older than me. I'm like, how do you keep running and running? And any advice you have to kind of stay, you know, stay active and, you know, not have your knees go out or whatever. Do you have any idea what he
• 20:44
  Speaker B: said, don't run every day?
• 20:46
  Speaker A: No. Why? You know, he didn't comment on that. Although I, you know, I don't think he runs every day. But he said, change your shoes more often than you think you need to. He was a big. Kind of like. He's like, don't.
• 20:57
  Speaker B: Oh, boy.
• 20:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, he was like, you know, and he doesn't work for Brooks or, you know, any of the shoe companies, but. No, but I think that's fair. You know, people sometimes need to.
• 21:05
  Speaker B: I just went. Went to a local athletic shop or whatever you call them a couple of days ago, actually, because I wanted to buy a pair of these carbon something shoes. Right.
• 21:18
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 21:18
  Speaker B: So they give you more spring and they're lighter. And the only reason why I wanted to buy them is so I could challenge my personal best at the park run. It's ridiculous. So for 150 quid, I'm gonna have a shot at BD, my own personal best.
• 21:33
  Speaker A: Well, I'll be tuning in on Strava to see how you're doing.
• 21:36
  Speaker B: Oh, boy.
• 21:37
  Speaker A: Oh, that's funny. All right, if you want to write to Alex and I and get advice on running or anything else, write to infoearadmit.com, use the subject line wiretaps. Alex, you picked out two really interesting candidates, so I'm pretty excited to talk about them. If you're ready to roll here, let's kick on. All right, so this is Wiretaps candidate number one. So our first candidate this week hails from Australia and they're applying now. They want to start in the fall of 27. They've been working as an internal consultant for, I believe, I want to say, Something in an aviation company or an airline. But prior to that they had all this Big Four experience. So some consulting background. They're looking only at schools in the uk. So they have Cambridge Imperial, AKA Oxford and London Business School. They have a GMAT score of 645 on the GMAT focus. That is roughly a 690, 700 on the old test. Their GPA is a 3.4. They've got five and a half years of work experience and they're really hoping to land in London. So they want to make this pivot from Australia to the uk, specifically London. And they did mention that they're hoping to work for McKinsey, Bain or BCG in London. Probably a pretty good gig. First of all, they said, hi Alex and Graham, so I'm guessing they might listen to the show, which is cool. They mentioned that they did their undergrad in quantitative economics and political science at a global top 50 university. They also pointed out that they had to pay their way through university with part time jobs and also were quite active in clubs and societies on campus, which they feel helps explain their 3.4. They probably, you know, I think they would argue they could have had a 3.8 if they weren't having to pay their way and work. And, you know, as engaged as they were, they mentioned that the big four work was with PwC. They did operational management consulting for Australian and some international corporate clients. They were promoted and then eventually they moved into a large commercial airline where they are an internal consultation consultant. They talk about how they're still involved with their undergraduate university's Impact Consulting club, which they had been president of. And they now return to mentor the new class each year. And again they want to pivot with the MBA into MBB consulting in the uk. They feel like they're confident in their ability to get into some of these UK schools, but they're worried about the full sticker price being a little steep for them in terms of the tuition. So they're wondering what would make their profile stand out for scholarships. They raised the idea of maybe a higher gmat. They're wondering if they should be applying to additional schools to create some competitive tension in the process in case they need to negotiate. Anyway, Alex, what do you make of this? Because this is an interesting quandary.
• 24:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple of things to consider. I mean the overall profile is probably pretty decent. Business schools generally like to see more applicants out of Australia, for example, so it's not an overrepresented country. And I, I'm presuming that their career at PwC as, as well as their, they moved on, I think into the airline industry, as you said. I think that career probably helps them stand out too. I think they, they said they were promoted ahead of schedule at PwC and so on and so forth. So I think from that part of their application, yeah, you would think things look very strong. Their GPA is okay, but certainly not outstanding. There's some mitigating circumstance to that, but it does then shine a little bit of a brighter light potentially on the test score, which again is okay and probably will give them access to some of these schools they got listed. But if they're really looking at the potential of getting scholarship and I understand that, I mean they said they had to work to pay for their undergrad so maybe they're a bit more of a bootstrapper. And business schools really admire that sort of, they can look at how far this person has come, that journey and so forth. So that should all play well. But they self confess that they reckon there's more points to be had in this gmat. So I'd like. The first thing you need to do is really study hard for a month and get a new test score in. So if they can raise that Test score even 20 points, it's going to make a difference. And if they're really looking for scholarship dollars obviously as high as they can raise it, that would be really beneficial. The other thing that they should take into account is there's probably not as much money available for scholarship within the non US schools versus US schools. So you know, not really understanding their decision to only focus on European schools. They might want to glance at some of the top 16 and potentially even am seven in the United States and maybe put in a couple of applications there too to as they put, get that, what is it competitive 10th or something? Yeah, but you know, if they could say, well Ross is giving me X dollars, how does that compare and that kind of thing. So yeah, overall I think there's probably, this is probably someone you'd like in the classroom. They're probably very smart and they've done lots of interesting things but there's some actions that they do need to take I think to optimize in this process.
• 27:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, and I think you made some great points just now and also when you were writing the comment to them on the apply wire entry. And I just, you know, I do, I love the profile. Like I agree the work experience, really interesting. It's great to have someone who's done consulting and then moved into industry. They're from Australia, like you say, so there are lots of things to like here. But I like you, I'm really concerned about if their goal is to get scholarship dollars because they don't want to pay full fare. I don't. I'm worried that they will get into these schools, but I don't see them getting a lot of money with a 3, 4 and a 645, because those are going to be below average numbers. And as exciting as their work experience is. Yeah, it just may not cut it for scholarships. So I agree with you. Retake that test, get a high score, because they kind of need to counter the 3.4 GPA a little bit. I mean, it certainly wouldn't hurt. And then, as you pointed out, you know, just this idea that for better or for worse, the US schools tend to be the ones with the most money to give away, and they may be, on the margin, even less represented in the US market than they would be in the uk. So I don't know, it's a little tricky because I know they want to land in London and work at MBB and that would be hard to do. Presumably, you may know more about this than I do, but I don't know what the rules are governing Australians moving to the UK and getting a work permit. Is there some sort of Commonwealth thing that makes that easier? Because if that's the case, then they could go to the US and get a, you know, get a high score, get a high scholarship, go to the US and then go to London and work for mbb, if they're allowed to work in the uk, Obviously, if they need to go to school in the UK in order to stay afterwards. Because the UK allows you to stay for what, 18 months automatically. Right. Then maybe they need to. So I don't know the answer to that. They probably would know or maybe, you know.
• 28:51
  Speaker B: But, yeah, obviously they, they. If they don't know it, they should figure it out. But I think there is a Commonwealth relationship. Yeah. And so forth. So that should provide them a little bit more leeway in that regard. But, yeah, again, I think overall this is probably someone you want in the classroom, but they just got to tidy up a few things.
• 29:11
  Speaker A: Right. Okay. Yeah. So best of luck to them as they buckle down on the test, because I think that could really be their main area to kind of eke out some additional gains. Hopefully they'll keep us posted. But let's turn our attention now to WireTaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week also comes from, from an ApplyWire entry. And again this is a candidate who is looking to start next fall. This person's only looking at US schools. They have Columbia, Harvard, mit, Wharton and Stanford on the list. So very, very top schools. They've been working as a consultant at BCG in Austria. They're located in Vienna. They have a 332 on the GRE and a 3.99 undergraduate G GPA. They also have a Master's degree I believe in economics and they were first in their class of 70 with a perfect GPA from that degree. So an impeccable academic profile is like that. That's like an understatement. They have a perfect academic profile. They have 2.3 years of work experience at this point they're 28. They as I said, have been working at BCG. It sounds like they've done quite well there. They were promoted to consultant after just 18 months which is six months ahead of the normal kind of track. They've been on international assignments. They would only have as I said. Well so right now they say 2.3 but they mentioned that they will have only about two and a half years of full time experience by the time they matriculate next fall. Now they did do some internships earlier in their career at Austria's embassies in Washington D.C. and Tokyo or in Washington D.C. and then I guess, yeah, they also worked as a, something called a founder's associate at a sustainability startup during their masters. So they've had a variety of experiences despite only having a more limited full time career to date. They organize stuff outside of work. They're helping with pride at bcg. They help onboard new new joiners. They coach high school students through a year long business program. They did a diploma in diplomacy and this is the kicker, they trained in Michelin starred kitchens and they still cook as a freelance private chef on the side. So lots to like here. They're thinking about post MBA of getting into, into a US based investing role at the intersection of private capital and public purpose. So impact investing, sustainable finance, that sort of thing. And then in the long term they're thinking about coming back to Europe and maybe even getting a role in a civic or public leadership role in Austria. So there you have it. So we went from Australia to Austria. This candidate, what do you, what do you make? I mean this is a really strong candidate.
• 32:08
  Speaker B: Alex, has he been to the moon yet?
• 32:11
  Speaker A: I know exactly no.
• 32:15
  Speaker B: And again Chris Marcus should look at this person's aspirations and what they've done and so forth. And this is the, the sort of candidate that I would qualify as, you know, a real top candidate for these top MBA programs. Right. In terms of profile, you might argue, okay, you're only two and a half years, years of post sort of professional work experience. But they've done so many different things and you listed some of the internships and various other aspects. But on top of the fact that they've done very well at their firm, MBB selected into the firms private equity ring fence, whatever, whatever that means, you know, that means that they're in the top of their classes at mbb, which is absolutely fantastic. Yeah. And so forth. So this is a potential superstar and top schools really like to identify these types of folks in my book. I mean a 399GPA, that's incredible. Right. So I would say for this candidate because one of the things that they're asking, they're not really asking is should I apply to business school or will I get admitted? The answer is yes and yes. But it's about the same strategy. Right. So in my book, this person should apply to Harvard and Stanford this season if, if those are the, the schools that they've identified as their top choices.
• 33:35
  Speaker A: Yeah. Which they said. Right, yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker B: So I'm not sort of, I don't think I'm putting words into their thing, but there's our top choices. I would only apply to those two schools this season because they've got the opportunity, if not successful, to come back next season, broaden out their targets to the remainder of the M7, which would include in this case Sloane, Columbia and Wharton, as well as reapplying to Harvard and Stanford. And we know in business school admissions that there's no real stigma attached to reapplicants. Right. So they'll be scrutinised in terms of how they've sort of developed over that additional year, etc. Etc. But that would be my approach, Graham. Just apply to the potential reach schools this season and you know, presumably they can continue along at MBB and do some really wonderful things if not successful and then come back next season. But I think that if not successful, I think one of those two schools will probably pick them up anyway.
• 34:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I think that one of the things it seems like they're worried about is, oh, you know, should I apply now if I might be dinged for having too few years of experience? Right. And your point to them on the apply entry was don't worry about it, apply now. If you don't get in, apply next year. Re applicants get into business school at a higher rate than first timers and there's no stigma. So there's nothing to lose here. And I would argue in a year where application volume is down a bit, you know, professors are writing negative things about business school. Like, you know, they're, they're going to get in, I'm guessing, like what better year to apply to try to get into a really top school. And not to mention, as you say, this candidate has kind of a flawless background. So I, Yeah, I mean we didn't even talk about the fact that Europeans going to US MBA programs are somewhat few and far between. Right. So they have so many things working in their favor. As you say, just go for it, apply. I have a feeling they'll get into Harvard or Stanford and they did say those are their two most preferred schools. So yeah, yeah, put it all go all in. Put together terrific round two applications for these programs and yeah, I'm sure we'll see them in Palo Alto or on the HBS campus next fall.
• 35:49
  Speaker B: And just, just on the flip side, let's say, okay, they app to all five or six schools this season and for whatever reason Tavern and Stanford took a pass, then they've got a really hard decision to make. So my advice is remove that hard decision, only focus on Harvard and Stanford.
• 36:07
  Speaker A: The only caveat I would point out, point out is if they're money focused.
• 36:12
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 36:12
  Speaker A: If for some reason they don't want to pay full fare, HBS and Stanford will be need based. Right. So if that. So that's different than a Wharton or any of the other schools on their list which will be merit based and so where they could walk away with a really. So I guess the question they need to answer for themselves is would you go to Wharton at half cost, you know, half price or whatever, you know, or some big scholarship or would you prefer to pay full fare or a higher price tag to go? So they have to think about that. But I agree with you on the overall strategy. Really interesting. Yeah. So very good. Yeah. In any event, thanks for picking those out. I don't know if this was on purpose, but I love that we had, you know, Australia and then Austria.
• 36:51
  Speaker B: I think long and hard about this, Graham.
• 36:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, I know, yeah. But in any event, yeah, thanks so much for doing this, Alex, and for just engaging in that conversation about Professor Marcus over at Cambridge. I thought it was, you know, obviously thought provoking and you know, I'm sure it did what the New York Times wanted, which was create a big buzz and get some people to read their op Ed.
• 37:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, and I don't completely disagree with his thesis. I just. Again, the title is wrong.
• 37:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, well.
• 37:16
  Speaker B: And. And yeah, I. I think there are better remedies than shutting down business schools.
• 37:22
  Speaker A: Yes. In any event, unless they shut down the business schools. Alex, we'll be back next week to do this all again, so I look forward to it.
• 37:29
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.